If you disagree that the Valyrian Steel dagger is a mistake, I actually ended up making a video arguing for why it might make sense. I really do listen to you guys and want to explore when and where I might be wrong. Here is the link: th-cam.com/video/sJcG5BW3KkU/w-d-xo.html Check it out!
Ive always said that he started to use the un reliable narrator and vague plots at times making it so things can go in.multiple directions like leaving room for him to completely change directions latter in time prob a must for his writing style one I think u kinda missed or I feel he wrote selmy like ten yrs older 11th n he was he seems to regress in age this could b a act or the fact he didnt put the five yr gap but merren.by his own words is a mess
After S08E03, it could also be that it was Bran (from the future) who somehow managed to send the assassin against himself with the Valyrian steel dagger. Knowing the weapon's future fate and importance.
@@Tofi_ytchannel I would argue that Brynden Rivers, the former Three Eyes Raven, orchestrated everything. For Bran to take his place and the dagger to be brought to him. Now I don't know what Martin will have in store in his books for the Three Eyed Raven and the Night King but if this isn't a mistake on Martin's plot, then it all ties together in Brynden's plan.
Sarah James no shit. You think an arrogant, spoiled 14 year old boy like Joffrey would even think twice about if the dagger he is arming his hired cutthroat with could possibly give him away. That was just a stupid point on this guys behalf.
Dale Gribble are you ducking stupid? It’s literally stated multiple times in the show most recently by bran. And in the books it is literally stated without question. Are you watching a different show?
Dale Gribble A Storm of Swords, Jaimie IX (Ch. 72) you fucking idiot. Literally directly says it. And even if it didn’t say it directly, I think it is pretty safe to assume that joffrey did it. Assuming you have a functioning brain of course.
Joffery in the books is implied to actually be as stupid as he is cruel. He has zero pragmatism or common sense. Killing Ned Stark being his dumbest move. But paying an assassin off with a knife because he didn't care for it's value sounds about right.
Joffrey killed ned becausehe realise that he knew he was a product of incest, george made us think that his actions were impulsive but he actually had a reason to do the things he did, i like that
Your point about one of Tyrion's uncles teaching him tumbling is... lacking. The specific uncle who taught Tyrion was his uncle Gerion, who as far as I know, never fought in any war. He was however, the complete opposite of his brothers. He was kind of like the Renly of his siblings, just more... into the ladies. But still, just as flamboyant and adventurous. The man was crazy enough to take a ship to the ruins of Valyria to find his long-lost family sword. So it makes perfect sense that he would be crazy enough to teach Tyrion tumbling.
And it makes complete sense that Tyrion would be an able tumbler seeing as dwarfs in the books are often found in circuses or are made jesters or slaves who tumble.
And as I recall in the books Tyrion was said to have capered and tumbled around Casterly Rock as a child until Tywin put a stop to is, seeing it as being too undignified for a Lannister. p.s. Are you implying that the uncle was a... erm... a "blackfish", so to speak?
I think it comes from George just throwing it in there in the beginning, but then people with actual Dwarfism read the books and informed him how Dwarfs tend to have joint pains that wouldn't make them all that acrobatic. It only became a plot hole of sorts when George then took those references to joint pains and added them into his book. But then he kind of retconned the whole thing by acknowledging the acrobatic skills in A Dance With Dragons and even having Tyrion performing on the boat, while also referencing how his uncle taught him and that he doesn't like to do it, sort of retconning it into something that makes sense. So it's not really a plot hole, more a series of retcons.
I dont believe the assassination attempt was a mistake at all. And if so, definitely not for the reasons stated. "Joffrey would have to be an idiot to arm an assassin with Valyran steel". Yes, that's kinda the point. Joffrey's an idiot. He thought he was being clever but really gave himself away.
It was mance rayder. In the books he says to John Snow that he saw him at winter because he went to winterfel to "see the king with his own eyes" during the first book/episodes. He was pretending to be a bard during the feast. Most book fans think mance stole the dagger, used the money he made to hire a guy to kill Bran in order to start conflict and create distrust between the Stark/Baratheon/ Lannisters. That's why such an expensive dagger was used; to make it obvious that someons hired the cat's paw.
@@iamcleaver6854 I guess you're right. But, still there are 200 valyrian steel swords in westeros. It has to be a pro in order to still carry out such a complicated hit after already being paid. Sleeping in the stable for weeks, burning the library. It seems likely that roguish figures would covet valyrian steel daggers and you'll likely have some in circulation
@Mizelei2012 I would imagine it to be very unlikely. How many stolen Bentleys are there in circulation? (I would imagine none). Something as valuable as that would almost never get into the hands of a thug, and if it ever did it would be a sensation. People would spread roomers about it. Getting it back. Everyone would dream to get their hands on it. Remember: Valyrian steel is so valuable that even TYWIN LANNISTER with all his wealth and power couldn't obtain one. An artefact of valyrian steal is probably the most precious thing you could ever possess. If one were to discover something like this in the possession of a thug it would be a sensation to them. They would not just leave it as a remark.
So making a decision that made him ten times as rich, as well as the world's most famous author, and hyped up his book series beyond all expectations was a mistake?
they did a good job as long as they had george holding their hands, so giving it to them was alright. complaints over the first 4 seasons were absolutely tolerable. but they should have replaced douche and detlef the moment those two didn't want to do it any longer. who thought it would be better to just wrap it up? hbo could have gone on as long as this thing prints money and george said he wanted 15+ seasons...this is totally beyond me. the only reason i can think of is that the salaries for the main cast probably grew to a point where it makes more sense economically to start with a blank canvas (prequels). well it is what it is and it is only a show, so fuck em. next.
There's definitely more than 8 mistakes and a couple typos (at least on the kindle edition) but they're still wonderful books. The ones he's names here are just some obvious ones. Honestly considering how complicated the books are, there should be way more mistakes then there are, all things considered though. But nothing's perfect.
did you not know “write” is spelled write and not right? I don’t see that being an autocorrect issue. I’d hope you’d know how to spell “write” right,if you are going to critique someone like George lol. 😉
Tyrione was trained to be a tumbler, because that was a common job for a "dwarf" and it was kinda of a family joke. Tyrione later talks about how he accepted the role because he actually enjoyed showing pride in something they were making fun of him for. Gold inflation is extremely interesting because Casterly Rock is literally making none but saying it is. I don't know if it was just a simple mistake of GRR but he might be making the point that the value of gold was completely depending on where you were and if in a city/rural setting.
@@MANJYOMETHUNDER111 is right, in the books Casterly Rock is world renown for how much gold they have. It's even mentioned when Jorah and Tyrion are in the Ghiscary lands that the rumors of Lannister wealth is so widespread that they talk about it in Yi Ti and Asshai
My grandmother has a tile on a wall with this inscription: people who work make mistakes, people who work hard make many mistakes. There are also people who make no mistakes.
Joffrey is aan insane 12 years old kid who has grown with all kind of luxuries and no concern about money; everything is worthless for a spoiled child like him. All his life he could get or have everything he has ever wanted or make someone (The Hound) do whatever he asked. He sent the assasin with a dagger he saw on his father's (Robert) desk without telling anyone because he thought it was a smart move and would impress his father. Is it that hard to imagine that happening? Really?
@@sfjlfkjsdlfkjds In westeros, the dagger has a dragon bone hilt which is a common material used in essos (Daenerys get a dragon bone bow as a wedding gift), No one knows how to creat valyrian steel that is true, but u can still get a weapon (mostly knives, daggers and dirks) in essos, for a lot of gold yeah, but remember that Robert was the one that owns it. (Never forget that a maester trained in the higher misteries have a Valyrian Steel link on their chain, and Marwyn has a valyrian steel ring, rod and mask)
True that being an heirloom adds to the value but let us not forget the legend of Brightroar the valyrian steel blade of house Lannister that was lost in the ruins of old valyria when one of Tywin's forbears went on an ill fated expedition from which he never returned. As a result of that Tywin had long sought to buy an ancestral blade from one of the lesser houses yet none would sell for any price. So for Joffrey to send some random assassin armed with a blade made of a super rare and expensive material is madness. A regular steel blade and a large payment would have been enough to get an assassin to take on a risky hit like that. It's not like Bran is a white walker, so the valyrian steel is overkill
@@sfjlfkjsdlfkjds There are around 200-300 Swords in Westeros, and so many daggers that Robert has some in his Armory. And there is one Armor we know of in Eurons Possession. And Essos is on another page. There should be hundreds of swords and a few armors left, because the valyrian empire spanned the whole western part of the continent and "only" the direct homeland was destroyed while all colonies and even the northern cities of Valyria (Elyria, Mantarys etc.) survived the Doom.
Also in the whole Joffrey ordering Bran's death, Tyrion misremembers what Joffrey says to validate Tyrion suspicion that Joffrey is the culprit in a Storm of Swords. In A Game of Thrones, Joffrey laughs at Sandor Clegane's ordering to kill Bran's wolves ("send a dog to kill a dog") and in a Storm of Swords Tyrion miss remembers this phrase to be "send a dog to kill a wolf". Its maybe author error or its GRRM being clever and showing Tyrion deduce someone else as guilty without much evidence before he himself is deduced as guilty for a crime he didn't commit without any evidence
When it comes to Tyrion I remember reading him explaining that his uncle taught him to tumble as a way of pissing off his father. Since everyone treated him like a sideshow attraction why not teach him to actually be one was the logic.
Ugh, while I agree with some, a lot of this is just not thinking it through enough on your part. For example: Tyrion had 2 other uncles named Gerion and Tygett. Gerion was said to be a cool guy and Tyrion's favorite uncle. Edmure Tully is offering 1000 goldcoins for the *capture* of Jaime. That's a lot for a random soldier. You're comparing this number with the *ransom* number the Lannisters (the richest family) are asked to pay for a knight's release, or Selwyn Tarth offers for his daughter. Salladhor Saan demands so much because he's a big part of Stannis' fleet. It's 2 dozen ships that he puts at risk and he knows Stannis needs him. You don't have understand that to enjoy the story, but you can. The only thing that could be a mistake (or more like a conveniece) here is Anguy and the Hound losing their money, but maybe it's something that will come up again later. But then again, are they even able to carry it with them. Edit: I am rereading ASOS now and the Brotherhood without Banners took the Hound's gold after they captured him. And the story that Joffrey send the Valyrian Steel dagger is completely wrong. Tyrion has a hard time finding a motive for Joffrey to do that. It's all based on his preconception that Joffrey is cruel and stupid, which is not at all how George RR Martin sees his characters. His villains are the heroes of the other side. And the motive that Jaime comes up is also weak. And they come up with their motives right before and after Joffrey is killed. I don't see the purpose in that if Joffrey really did send the man to kill Bran, it's anticlimatic. I am 100% sure Joffrey was innocent of that crime and the real conspirator is still alive. Littlefinger had the dagger, then he lost it to Robert, then Joffrey took it and had it with him in Winterfell, then it was stolen. When Tyrion mentions the dagger at Joffrey's wedding this is what happens: Joff gave him a sharp look. "You . . . yes, a dagger to match my sword, good." He nodded. "A . . . a gold hilt with rubies in it. Dragonbone is too plain." To me, this sounds less like "Oh shit he knows it was me!" and more like "This treacherous dwarf did it!" This is the moment both Tyrion and Joffrey come to the conclussion that each had sent the cutthroat. If you wondered why Joffrey was especially mean to Tyrion from this point on, it's because he thought Tyrion did it.
The cutthroat was sent by Mance. The motive may not be clear now, but it will make sense: the cutthroat was talking like a wildling, coins were found where he was hiding and Mance later mentions that he took coin purse with himself before crossing the wall to south, the cutthroat keeps repeating that "it's a mercy" which is something that Val says about Shireen when she says that in the north parents would be bold enough to mercy kill her, and even though Mance couldn't possibly predict that a guy named Littlefinger will blame a Lannister for this assassination thus creating a chaos south of the wall allowing for a wildling invasion, he could still have an entirely different, yet valid motive which is unclear now but since he is once again in Winterfell we can figure it out in the next book. Also Mance could have stolen the dagger while he was with the Kings party as a freerider before arriving on Winterfell, or he could have easily stolen it while in Winterfell, simply by climbing into the the kings room through window and take the dagger. Remember, Mance is as good as, if not better than, Bran at climbing
Ashley.JWilliams OFFICAL .....nitpicking by pointing out legitimate errors in George R. R. Martin's writing like, Renly's eyes change colour, Jaime's horse changes GENDER or a physical description of a character or errors in how money works in the world...? No, that isn't nitpicking. George R. R. Martin is an amazing writer - my inspiration - but pointing out his mistakes is not automatically nitpicking... Nitpicking is over-blowing small cracks in writing, and making a huge deal out of nothing, overly criticizing a minor mistake as if it was the worst thing ever... *Savage Books* only POINTED out the errors in the text, but he said they did not break the story too much... *Savage Books* even said George R. R. Martin's way of writing is something to emulate...meaning the story is still amazing...
In the world building you choose the economics from the start because it is an essential thing. Even me a fanfic writer know this and practised it.He should've made the money from the start and note it. Other than that they are really small details.
Very interesting video! 🙂 As a huge fan of George R. R. Martin and an aspiring writer myself, I found this video very insightful. Thank you for sharing this... I spend so much time tightening up my world's rules, society and characters, so there would not be any inconsistencies in the narrative. I will admit there have been errors - not too many - but they were notable enough to make me shudder a little... I typically write mainstream Drama books and high/low Fantasy novels with a lot of detail and characters. I realized writing Fantasy books requires much more rereads and revisions to maintain consistencies in the narrative, because my fantasy novels take place in a fictional secondary world I create. Writing... It is difficult, I will admit, but it is also so much fun!
Good video, but I don't think the Valyrian steel dagger is a mistake. We aren't entirely sure it was Joffrey who ordered the murder (both Tyrion's and Jaimie's and Cersei's explanations don't make much sense and are filled with inconsistencies) but if we assume it was him you must consider that he was a sociopath, and not a very smart one, he could've perfectly given a Valyrian steel dagger to a cutthroat. The most likely explanation, however, is that this was part of a scheme, by someone like Littlefinger (He's the most obvious suspect, but there is the problem of how he would have known about Bran's fall in time to hire the cutthroat) or Mance Raider (He was in Winterfell at the time and would want to weaken the realm) who both would have wanted to start a conflict between Starks and Lannister's.
Information flies very fast in Westeros. I do think Little finger would have time to hire an assassin to kill Bran. In the books, a lot of time passes between chapters, and Cat had the time to reach Kingslanding even before Ned, just through sailing. The same can be true to Littlefinger. And I'm pretty sure he didn't had the idea of framing Tyrion in the last minute.
@@meurer13daniel Actually, information does not travel fast in Westeros or Essos in the books. The television show, on the other hand, information is travelling faster than my emails. It takes months for Tywin to find out Tyrion is captured, and even longer for everyone to find out that Renly Baratheon has died. Only in _A Storm of Swords_ do they know he has died, though his death transpired halfway through _A Clash of Kings_ in Catelyn's third-last chapter. Young Griff's invasion in _A Dance with Dragons_ is only being talked about in the last chapter, despite it being happening for a while-and that is considering the fact that King's Landing is only weeks away from Storm's End. Littlefinger had no idea Bran fell, thus him sending the catspaw is impossible. The catspaw attacks Bran shortly after Eddard Stark reaches King's Landing. It is only through the words of Catelyn did Lord Baelish find out. Him framing Tyrion was on a whim to save his own skin. Blaming someone that is not in King's Landing (and someone no one liked) was what he saw best to buy him some time to scheme. In the books, it is most likely Joffrey who sent the catspaw...or maybe it was Littlefinger. Time is consistent in the books, and has a lot of time skips between and within chapters, but the lengthy time is still there in universe-it's just that we are fortunate enough not to read through all of it-else the books will drag too much.
@@ClaireYunFarronXIII actually it takes tywin very little time to find out that tyrion has been captured. Within a few weeks he has called his banners, gathered 2 armies and invaded the riverlands.
Good video mostly, I think the tyrion flipping thing belongs in the minor section personally but that's just me. As for the Dagger, well that's another story. Unlike the previous hips mistake that was confirmed by GRRM there have been no confirmations that the Dagger was a mistake, furthermore it is Tyrion that suggests that Joffery sent the catspaw based on a conversation he heard and it's not confirmed it was definitely Joffery. Basically that one falls firmly in the theory section until otherwise confirmed by GRRM.
His biggest mistake was making everything too large and letting it all get away from him. Now the next book is so big and complex he isn't able to finish.
When D&D had source material (Books) to go on they did great. Whose fault is it that they ran out of source material? I mean who wants Fire and Blood instead of Winds of Winter? So we can say his biggest mistake is not finishing what he started....
Christopher Rousseau there was enough source material to last several more seasons, but d&d were too arrogant to hand it over to someone else when they decided they want out. Now we have these rushed seasons.
While rereading storm i got the impression that Joffrey does not recognize that it is a Valerian blade dager, he just boasts at the wedding that he is no stranger to Valerian steel.
The entire dagger explanation is weak, and Cersei's theory about it being Joffrey may be incorrect. I hope it's a deliberate inconsistency, and George plans to reveal a fitting explanation later on.
@@SSJ8Goku No, he said "the criminal will be revealed in that book". just because multiple people concluded that it was joffrey, it could be someone else that was hinted. there's "hints" that it could have been mance
Not even a minute into your analysis, your caption reads "Like taking 27 years to right [sic] this series." Not but a minute from the end, you advise us that "Once your [sic] put something on the page..." Seriously, dude, why should anyone listen to you commenting on an author's mistakes?
Prickly Pear your a fucking idiot where are you getting sic from the first caption said Like taking 20 years to write this series and the second one says Once your put something on the page, it will affect your world forever the typo is your it’s supposed to say Once you put something on the page, it will affect your world forever one mistake you are a fucking moron
sic is latin for thus. It is used in writing to refer to someones original writings, in their original state. A quote if you will... You keep misspellings intact in those... Prickly uses [sic] to let you know that he didn't make a typo, but Savage Books did, without using a bunch of words, like I had to do now. [sic] is a lot faster... Matt Darwin... Are you for real? Amazing...
200 some odd steel SWORDS in the seven kindom. It is implied there are upwards of a couple thousand valryian steel odds and ends. we've seen relatively minor or poorish characters wielding valyrian steel aracks, we've seen valyiran steel armor, knives etc. Its not impossible to imagine that robbert had a number of items of similar value in his vault
On the end part of your video, it's pretty cool to observe how people plan out their stories. I always like to take the approach of mapping out my world and building it up before writing the story itself, because I've learned from writing fanfiction that working with what information I already have can really influence the overall plot of the story.
The books can only be over rated until they are finished. Literally everythings set on a cliff hanger of sorts and theres so much going on its hard to even imagine he'll be able finish it in 2 books.
Okay, was it an honest typo or a nerdy pun when this video mentioned, at the 10:30 mark, "Once you(r) put something on the page, it will affect your world forever"?
It sucks that in the show they didn't hint at Joffrey being behind the assassination attempt because he wanted to impress his father. It would have just added to the hatred of his character and would have given an early insight into the mind of Joffrey and some of the messed up things he thinks. Thinking the king and your father would be impressed by you pity killing a child is insane.
The biggest mistake is expanding the story when he should be shrinking it. I mean he adds a whole bunch of POVS for Dorne, Iron Islands, and the Golden Company. You could easily cut most of those and have a tighter story.
Great video! Would love to see more content like this. As a writer, it's kind of comforting to see these incredible authors are still mortal, and can make mistakes.
I interpreted the hips as 2 different characters - being that she was switched out, and I thought he commented on this saying something to that effect, but I did not hear that he said it was a mistake, thanks for clearing that up. I thought it was something grrm was pulling hinting that it was not the right girl, and it was a sister or cousin acting as her and the wife w child or possibly and child are hiding with blackfish somewhere
I think it makes perfect sense that someone like Joffrey would give an assassin a dagger as valuable as that - it’s reckless and misguided, but there’s also a sadistic glamour in assassinating someone with a Valyrian steel dagger - it’s cool.
tyrion tumbling makes sense. his uncle was known as the laughing lion, he was a humorous and lighthearted guy so he probably knew how to do tricks and jokes like that
>make a video about analyzing mistakes with great scrutiny >the video is littered with typos Like pottery. Jokes aside, I do like these analytical videos and understand that even small mistakes can have unforeseen ramifications. I can dig it.
I think that GRRM's biggest mistake is expanding the story after "A Storm of Swords" with lots of new characters, locations, and plots, rather than condensing the story and moving it into the final act. It's how he got trapped in his current situation.
I once read that originally he intended some kind of time jump somewhere but ultimately ended up dropping the idea for some reason, and that this is what led to him writing himself into a corner.
@@lonestarr1490 I feel like the show saw this and tried to correct it, only to over-correct, making things feel too rushed, while the book series can feel too slow or too over-stuffed. But I guess that's a matter of opinion.
This. It's a 40-minute-analysis of the case, and shows how the reasoning behind Joff being the culprit is off. The go-to-source. th-cam.com/video/5MgJb_wh-K0/w-d-xo.html
A lot of your points are pretty explainable through logical leaps: - Green eyes changing to blue can depend on lighting, my brother has eyes that do something similar - Jon is knows nothing and I reckon Bran was out of commission close to that point in the story so - Jaime easily could have switched horses - Perspectives - Etc.
This was an exceptionally insightful video. I might only disagree on Tyrion. That sort of stuff was typical learned by dwarves. And the point was to enjoy the audience (or friends) by the contrast of both clumsiness and acrobatics.
The fact that George was so embarrassed by the back-flipping Tyrion moment he invented a fun uncle that taught Tyrion how to tumble in order to explain it away.
The only hardened knight among Tywin's brothers was Kevan, with Tygett also fighting in the War of Ninepenny kings but apparently not knighted. Tyrion was loved by Gerion and Tygett, the latter teaching him tumbling before Tyrion told him to stop. The dwarf troupe that entertains at the Purple Wedding does all sorts of tricks, including stunt riding pigs and dogs. Hence Tyrion can do a bit of flipping here and there.
"Once *YOUR* put something on the page, it will affect your world forever." I kept waiting to see if he would correct this at the end to make a point, but nope, seems it was a genuine mistake. The irony of this is so exquisite that it transcends into unintentional poetry.
Honestly, pointing any of this as anything more than trivial mistakes is a little bit much, considering ASOIAF's scope. The real mistakes of his books are structural, and have nothing to do with specificities such as "the dagger" or someone's eyes. It has to do with the fact that the fourth and fifth books are a mess that don't even have true endings, it has to do with a series getting too many characters too far apart from each other and having very little progress in each episode they get. And even then I prefer those latter books to what we got in the "equivalent" tv show seasons.
I've never understood the, "every book needs a begining middle and end" when talking about a book in the middle of a series spanning thousands of pages.
George's biggest mistake is having Tyrion do NOTHING to Littlefinger after becoming hand of the king. He knew LF lied to cat about the dagger which started the war and he does NOTHING about it. You missed the biggest mistake.
I'm sure it would take too much effort for you to actually get past the first sentence of my comment, and you have already declared your disinterest in considering an explanation, so why am I even bothering, but here we go. There may well be some mistakes he has made concerning the value of currency and the amounts he mentions here or there, but your aggressive ignorance about how George clearly has in some instances knowingly considered and applied into his writing the realities of inflation/deflation is kind of hilarious to me. So you would prefer a less realistic setting on this particular matter. That's fine, but I wouldn't. I like this series because of how realistic it is and because of the remarkably FEW mistakes there are in the grand tapestry George has woven here. One in which things virtually ALWAYS stand up to being scrutinized. There may well be errors on his part as I said, but many (if not all) of your examples about the currency have very simple potential explanations. You seem to be arguing for a static economy like that of a video game vendor system. Basics/logic. This is not a modern city where there are official prices and barcodes determining the cost of things, but rather it is a pre-industrial one where those with gold/silver can make offers as they like (though they cannot offer more than they have without going into debt) and those with goods or skills of value can ask whatever price they like for them. Have you heard of a place called San Francisco by the way? Many things there cost like 4 times what they do where I live. Does that fact hurt your brain? I am not even close to a expert on this kind of thing but its really not that complicated. You both refuse to consider certain things here, but also suggest that you consider this a serious threat to the narrative. THAT'S pretty funny. I know you apparently don't like thinking about these things, but I will just mention one way in which George CLEARLY has knowingly considered inflation/deflation. In the dunk and egg series Westeros is still reeling from a very costly civil war, much of the labor force is dead, and therefore the currency has experienced deflation (there are details to why this is the case I will not pretend like I understand by the way, but I don't have to, I just have to understand its deflated), meaning every coin is worth more, there is less of it to go around, prices are lower, etc. Meanwhile, at the start of the book series, Westeros has been in a time of peace, prosperity, and summer for about 10 years and the population is relatively high. The currency has been inflated (this is not always a sign of an unhealthy economy by the way). Also, I can't help it, you realize Salladar San's price was for for an entire fleet correct?
Joffrey being Joffrey just chose the coolest and most unique dagger his daddy owned, unaware and unappreciative of comprehending how rare, priceless, and identifiable the dagger is.
I think the vs dagger being a mistake is harsh. We dont know know Joffrey's knowledge of the items value and being as he was such a spoilt little brat he potentially just didnt care.
Subscribing. It's great to see someone with a rational view about this stuff. The tendency of many fans is to engage in wild theories, and to refuse to consider the possibility of error. Like Kubrick, Martin has a certain kind of fan that likes to obsess and imagine that every detail is deliberate and therefor significant, but it's simply not so. There are errors, and there are irrelevancies. Martin has said as much.
Joffrey didn’t try to kill BRAN!!!! Jane is not Jane. And GRRM has said in interviews that there are things that aren’t mistakes that people think are mistakes, it’s just him being “Clever.” Watch Preston. He will show you the way.
You ever consider that MAYBE someone gave the dagger on purpose to frame someone? Namely Joffrey or someone else like Robert? Among the catspaw’s belongings were a bag of silver, Mance brought a bag of silver with him when he went to winterfell during the arrival of Robert.
King Daeron I is mentioned as "Daeren" in the first Jon chapter, two different times: one by Jon, the other by Benjen. In the appendix is Daeron though. Could it be that some highborn Northeners don't study history as much as a maester do?
The reason why tyrion jumps like an acrobat is because George thought that dwarfs did that, thats why they were always working as circus clowns and entertainers. Think about it. A grown ass man thought that stunted people could be acrobatic all his life until people pointed out in his novel
I don't think that Joffrey had anything to do with the assassination. I think that the mysterious person who delivered the note to Catelyn (from Lysa/Littlefinger) at the beginning of the book blaming the Lannisters for the murder of Jon Arryn stuck around and attempted to kill bran (or any other easy Stark) in with a Lannister blade in order to fuel the hatred more (which it absolutely did). Catelyn ran to King's Landing, met up with her only real contact there (Littlefinger) and then was set on the warpath and ultimately started the War of The Five Kings. I think that Littlefinger orchestrated it all, including Ned getting beheaded rather than sent to the wall, as a way of causing the war and using the chaos to his own ends.
GRRM did eventually say it was a mistake of his to have Tyrion be acrobatic in the first book, so he tried to do a little bit of a fix in "DWD"about his uncle Gerion teaching him to caper about. Tyrion, upon realizing that Joffrey was the man behind the catspaw figured that Joffrey didn't realize the worth of the blade. Apparently, Robert had a great many knives and he only used the one he got as a boy from Jon Arryn. Joffrey stole the blade, not realizing it was a)Valyrian Steel and b)Littlefinger's, and all out of a misguided attempt to gain Roberts favour over a drunken comment Robert made. You didn't mention another big mistake, which was Robert giving Jaime(a Kingsguard knight)the title of Warden of the East as of Neds chapter in the Barrowlands after they leave Winterfell.
Gardeners still plot out where the plants are going to grow but they don't know how they are going to grow, what kind of tending they'll need, or how the other plants and even the elements will affect the garden as a whole. To stick with the metaphor...
The valerian steel dagger was one of my biggest issues with the show, and in the show this pet peeve of mine culminated in the hasty and contrived loose-end-burning execution of one of my favorite characters, Littlefinger. I agree he should die, possibly how it happens in the show (and most satisfyingly on Sansa's orders), but that this Hope Diamond of weapons should have been in the hands of an assassin to begin with is ludicrous. Thank you!
Maybe Martin will resolve this in the books, but for me the biggest issue is structural. The threat of the White Walkers and the struggle for the Iron Throne seem at odds with each other, and yet both elements were deliberately introduced early in the narrative. I really like the notion of an existential threat being overlooked for the sake of petty squabbling, but it renders a satisfying conclusion difficult to achieve. The two plot lines exist virtually independent of each other and yet are largely dependent on the same cast of characters. I'll be fascinated to see how Martin deals with this problem in the books because the resolution in the TV version was deeply unsatisfying.
The dagger thing will probably get a better explanation soon. I still believe Littlefinger had something to do with it, which makes much more sense than Joffrey doing it.
Winter Fire GRRM said before the release of a Storm of swords that the answer to this question was in that book, both Jaime and Tyrion in that book figure it’s Joffrey. Case closed
I really wish we got a POV for Robb and got to see his conquest in the Westerlands. It would've been great to see him being seemingly invincible to make the Red Wedding even more tragic. This is probably because Robb is one of my favorite characters
Small mistake: the location of the House with the Red door and the lemon tree: Tyrosh vs Braavos (lemons don't grow in the Braavosi climate and in an earlier story the house was in Tyrosh).
@@alanpennie8013 hahaha yes! Very significant, indeed. While sometimes it's overblown, I do like those 'delving deeper'-theories. So yea, perhaps, mid-level it is.
I don't think it is a mistake. He's even mentioned so often in other chapters quite explicitly that lemons don't grow in Braavos, but they do in Dorne (even in the forthcoming Mercy chapter in TWOW).
@AdamBlacksburg Sure, gardens...but lemon's can't grow there. And isfaik we know GRRM sometimes writes people being mistaken - as people irl are, especially when they're really young. A quick look around got me to this: www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/9bme42/spoilers_published_the_dragon_from_tyrosh/ I don't have the booklet/magazine or what ever, nor a photo, but apparently others do ;)
I know this is obvious but it's something I often need to remind myself of, so maybe this will help other people: These are rules for when you are revising and editing your work. Do not let any of these mistakes stop you from actually putting things on the page. You cannot create the perfect story ahead of time and produce A Song of Ice and Fire in one shot just by doing lots of prep work. Write, and write badly if you need to. And then revise and improve it until it is what you want it to be, and if you do that part well enough no one will care about the mistakes that make it past you.
About the Valyrian steel dagger. It has a dragon bone hilt which itself is inconsistent. I don't remember all the descriptions of dragon bone, but it's always described as black, that's consistent, but depending on the chapter your reading, it either looks like black diamond or it definitely doesn't look like black diamond. This is probably a little theory. Like green eyes versus blue eyes or thicc versus skinny.
Just found your channel. Great work. Could I make an odd request: Do a video about how you would re-write the plot/characters of Halo: Reach. Thanks, subbed.
Also Jamie being made warden of the east. That was setting up some plot that never happens i bet. And it makes no sense at all once we know the world. How can the warden of the east not be a lord from the east? Just a member of the kinds guard as warden? No way
Peter Dinkledge told Martin the Tyrion tumbling thing was a mistake, a little offensive, and would not be a part of the character in the show. Martin agreed, though since it was already in the books, he felt obligated to give it a pay off in the books during Tyrion's journey to Essos.
If you disagree that the Valyrian Steel dagger is a mistake, I actually ended up making a video arguing for why it might make sense. I really do listen to you guys and want to explore when and where I might be wrong. Here is the link: th-cam.com/video/sJcG5BW3KkU/w-d-xo.html
Check it out!
If Bran is the night king valyrian may be needed to kill him
Ive always said that he started to use the un reliable narrator and vague plots at times making it so things can go in.multiple directions like leaving room for him to completely change directions latter in time prob a must for his writing style one I think u kinda missed or I feel he wrote selmy like ten yrs older 11th n he was he seems to regress in age this could b a act or the fact he didnt put the five yr gap but merren.by his own words is a mess
Maybe Joffrey, like most kids, does not understand the value of things. Or it was just a mistake.
After S08E03, it could also be that it was Bran (from the future) who somehow managed to send the assassin against himself with the Valyrian steel dagger. Knowing the weapon's future fate and importance.
@@Tofi_ytchannel I would argue that Brynden Rivers, the former Three Eyes Raven, orchestrated everything. For Bran to take his place and the dagger to be brought to him. Now I don't know what Martin will have in store in his books for the Three Eyed Raven and the Night King but if this isn't a mistake on Martin's plot, then it all ties together in Brynden's plan.
8:47 "Why would Joffrey use a dagger that could be linked back to him??"
bc Joffrey was an idiot
Sarah James no shit. You think an arrogant, spoiled 14 year old boy like Joffrey would even think twice about if the dagger he is arming his hired cutthroat with could possibly give him away. That was just a stupid point on this guys behalf.
joff is actually 12 at that point
@@veloce5491 all the more reason lol
Dale Gribble are you ducking stupid? It’s literally stated multiple times in the show most recently by bran. And in the books it is literally stated without question. Are you watching a different show?
Dale Gribble A Storm of Swords, Jaimie IX (Ch. 72) you fucking idiot. Literally directly says it. And even if it didn’t say it directly, I think it is pretty safe to assume that joffrey did it. Assuming you have a functioning brain of course.
Joffery in the books is implied to actually be as stupid as he is cruel. He has zero pragmatism or common sense. Killing Ned Stark being his dumbest move. But paying an assassin off with a knife because he didn't care for it's value sounds about right.
This implies that he is not portrayed as stupid in the show.
@@deamongimli But we are not talking about the show, this is about mistakes made in the books.
@@Anonymous_P I know, but by wording it "Joffery in the books" you imply it is different in the show, which it really is not.
@@deamongimli well you got me there. Both versions of Joffrey are totally loathable.
Joffrey killed ned becausehe realise that he knew he was a product of incest, george made us think that his actions were impulsive but he actually had a reason to do the things he did, i like that
Your point about one of Tyrion's uncles teaching him tumbling is... lacking. The specific uncle who taught Tyrion was his uncle Gerion, who as far as I know, never fought in any war. He was however, the complete opposite of his brothers. He was kind of like the Renly of his siblings, just more... into the ladies. But still, just as flamboyant and adventurous. The man was crazy enough to take a ship to the ruins of Valyria to find his long-lost family sword. So it makes perfect sense that he would be crazy enough to teach Tyrion tumbling.
And it makes complete sense that Tyrion would be an able tumbler seeing as dwarfs in the books are often found in circuses or are made jesters or slaves who tumble.
And as I recall in the books Tyrion was said to have capered and tumbled around Casterly Rock as a child until Tywin put a stop to is, seeing it as being too undignified for a Lannister.
p.s. Are you implying that the uncle was a... erm... a "blackfish", so to speak?
And George even said on interview it was a mistake and would wish he could fix it so yea back to the looking to deep into it kind of thing
I like to think Uncle Gerion taught Tyrion to tumble to get under Tywin's skin a little bit
I think it comes from George just throwing it in there in the beginning, but then people with actual Dwarfism read the books and informed him how Dwarfs tend to have joint pains that wouldn't make them all that acrobatic. It only became a plot hole of sorts when George then took those references to joint pains and added them into his book. But then he kind of retconned the whole thing by acknowledging the acrobatic skills in A Dance With Dragons and even having Tyrion performing on the boat, while also referencing how his uncle taught him and that he doesn't like to do it, sort of retconning it into something that makes sense. So it's not really a plot hole, more a series of retcons.
I dont believe the assassination attempt was a mistake at all. And if so, definitely not for the reasons stated. "Joffrey would have to be an idiot to arm an assassin with Valyran steel". Yes, that's kinda the point. Joffrey's an idiot. He thought he was being clever but really gave himself away.
It was mance rayder. In the books he says to John Snow that he saw him at winter because he went to winterfel to "see the king with his own eyes" during the first book/episodes. He was pretending to be a bard during the feast. Most book fans think mance stole the dagger, used the money he made to hire a guy to kill Bran in order to start conflict and create distrust between the Stark/Baratheon/ Lannisters. That's why such an expensive dagger was used; to make it obvious that someons hired the cat's paw.
The problem is that the idea of a a cutthroat using Valyrian steal didn't seam outrageous to all the characters is absurd.
@@iamcleaver6854 I guess you're right. But, still there are 200 valyrian steel swords in westeros. It has to be a pro in order to still carry out such a complicated hit after already being paid. Sleeping in the stable for weeks, burning the library. It seems likely that roguish figures would covet valyrian steel daggers and you'll likely have some in circulation
I agree with you. The book owns it by pointing the dagger stupidity out. By definition that's not a mistake.
@Mizelei2012 I would imagine it to be very unlikely. How many stolen Bentleys are there in circulation? (I would imagine none). Something as valuable as that would almost never get into the hands of a thug, and if it ever did it would be a sensation. People would spread roomers about it. Getting it back. Everyone would dream to get their hands on it. Remember: Valyrian steel is so valuable that even TYWIN LANNISTER with all his wealth and power couldn't obtain one. An artefact of valyrian steal is probably the most precious thing you could ever possess. If one were to discover something like this in the possession of a thug it would be a sensation to them. They would not just leave it as a remark.
Meanwhile i wrote zero pages and made zero mistakes.
better get on that... start racking up some mistakes
I believe you made a mistake, when you decided not to write a fantasy epos like this. You would be a millionaire, if you did.
Just make sure not to give your zero pages to D&D.
They somehow manage to make crap out of the non-existent material.
Perfectly balanced as all things should be
@@RuslanLagashkin Jesus 😂
George RR Martin's 5 Biggest Mistakes with ASOIAF:
1. Gave it to D&D
2. Gave it to D&D
3. Gave it to D&D
4. Gave it to D&D
5. Gave it to D&D
I didn't realise that by doing that, it actually changed the books.
So making a decision that made him ten times as rich, as well as the world's most famous author, and hyped up his book series beyond all expectations was a mistake?
David Jones Did I say that giving it a television adaptation was bad? NO! But he shouldn’t have given to Dumb and Dumber
I knew this comment was going to be here lol
they did a good job as long as they had george holding their hands, so giving it to them was alright. complaints over the first 4 seasons were absolutely tolerable. but they should have replaced douche and detlef the moment those two didn't want to do it any longer. who thought it would be better to just wrap it up? hbo could have gone on as long as this thing prints money and george said he wanted 15+ seasons...this is totally beyond me. the only reason i can think of is that the salaries for the main cast probably grew to a point where it makes more sense economically to start with a blank canvas (prequels). well it is what it is and it is only a show, so fuck em. next.
When you write nearly 10,000 pages but only make 8 mistakes 👏👏👏👏👏
There are only like 4,000 something pages in the ASoIaF books
Edit: nevermind it doenst really change the impressiveness anyway
@@coleq.7300 4,197 pages actually not counting The Winds of Winter sample chapters
There's definitely more than 8 mistakes and a couple typos (at least on the kindle edition) but they're still wonderful books. The ones he's names here are just some obvious ones. Honestly considering how complicated the books are, there should be way more mistakes then there are, all things considered though. But nothing's perfect.
That's what proof readers and editors are for
His editor is amazing.
In a video about literary mistakes, I misspell the word "write"... lol
You also used "your" instead of "you" at the 10:22 mark.
did you not know “write” is spelled write and not right? I don’t see that being an autocorrect issue. I’d hope you’d know how to spell “write” right,if you are going to critique someone like George lol. 😉
That was so obvious I thought it was intentional.
@@korakys I thought that as well.
@@apc5213 there's quite a compelling theory that Mance Raider paid the assassin that I'm quite fond of.
Tywin had three bothers. Gerion, He’s the one that sailed to Valyria and never returned.
Tygett and Kevin. That’s three uncles, not two.
1 like Equals 1 bent knee for Mannis
Kevan*
@@Mateo12485 Hey, you! I did not notice you until now!
*Brothers, not *bothers. Also, *Kevan, not *Kevin. 🙄
Tywin and his wife are cousins, so I think that would make Tywin an uncle and father to his children. three uncles.
Tyrione was trained to be a tumbler, because that was a common job for a "dwarf" and it was kinda of a family joke. Tyrione later talks about how he accepted the role because he actually enjoyed showing pride in something they were making fun of him for. Gold inflation is extremely interesting because Casterly Rock is literally making none but saying it is. I don't know if it was just a simple mistake of GRR but he might be making the point that the value of gold was completely depending on where you were and if in a city/rural setting.
Casterly Rock's mines being empty is a show-only thing.
Tyrion...
@@MANJYOMETHUNDER111 is right, in the books Casterly Rock is world renown for how much gold they have. It's even mentioned when Jorah and Tyrion are in the Ghiscary lands that the rumors of Lannister wealth is so widespread that they talk about it in Yi Ti and Asshai
My grandmother has a tile on a wall with this inscription: people who work make mistakes, people who work hard make many mistakes. There are also people who make no mistakes.
"the best of the best make mistakes" as 'write' is spelled out 'right' on screen. perfect irony.
Joffrey is aan insane 12 years old kid who has grown with all kind of luxuries and no concern about money; everything is worthless for a spoiled child like him. All his life he could get or have everything he has ever wanted or make someone (The Hound) do whatever he asked. He sent the assasin with a dagger he saw on his father's (Robert) desk without telling anyone because he thought it was a smart move and would impress his father. Is it that hard to imagine that happening? Really?
Youve hit the nail on the head! "Objects have to meaning to those who have it all"..well done!
How about the assassin, if i were him i would have taken the dagger and ran. I already have a fortune now.
@@nabilboumellassa4556 He probably didn't know it was a Valyrian dagger either.
The value of a family heirloom is different from the value of the material it's made of.
@@sfjlfkjsdlfkjds In westeros, the dagger has a dragon bone hilt which is a common material used in essos (Daenerys get a dragon bone bow as a wedding gift), No one knows how to creat valyrian steel that is true, but u can still get a weapon (mostly knives, daggers and dirks) in essos, for a lot of gold yeah, but remember that Robert was the one that owns it. (Never forget that a maester trained in the higher misteries have a Valyrian Steel link on their chain, and Marwyn has a valyrian steel ring, rod and mask)
True that being an heirloom adds to the value but let us not forget the legend of Brightroar the valyrian steel blade of house Lannister that was lost in the ruins of old valyria when one of Tywin's forbears went on an ill fated expedition from which he never returned. As a result of that Tywin had long sought to buy an ancestral blade from one of the lesser houses yet none would sell for any price.
So for Joffrey to send some random assassin armed with a blade made of a super rare and expensive material is madness. A regular steel blade and a large payment would have been enough to get an assassin to take on a risky hit like that. It's not like Bran is a white walker, so the valyrian steel is overkill
@@sfjlfkjsdlfkjds There are around 200-300 Swords in Westeros, and so many daggers that Robert has some in his Armory. And there is one Armor we know of in Eurons Possession. And Essos is on another page. There should be hundreds of swords and a few armors left, because the valyrian empire spanned the whole western part of the continent and "only" the direct homeland was destroyed while all colonies and even the northern cities of Valyria (Elyria, Mantarys etc.) survived the Doom.
I can't help but notice the cruel irony at 10:24:
"Once YOUR put something on the page, it will affect your world forever."
Lol
Also in the whole Joffrey ordering Bran's death, Tyrion misremembers what Joffrey says to validate Tyrion suspicion that Joffrey is the culprit in a Storm of Swords.
In A Game of Thrones, Joffrey laughs at Sandor Clegane's ordering to kill Bran's wolves ("send a dog to kill a dog") and in a Storm of Swords Tyrion miss remembers this phrase to be "send a dog to kill a wolf".
Its maybe author error or its GRRM being clever and showing Tyrion deduce someone else as guilty without much evidence before he himself is deduced as guilty for a crime he didn't commit without any evidence
The fact that many people are that deep about these mistakes is just amazing that proves your book is great.
When it comes to Tyrion I remember reading him explaining that his uncle taught him to tumble as a way of pissing off his father. Since everyone treated him like a sideshow attraction why not teach him to actually be one was the logic.
Ugh, while I agree with some, a lot of this is just not thinking it through enough on your part.
For example:
Tyrion had 2 other uncles named Gerion and Tygett. Gerion was said to be a cool guy and Tyrion's favorite uncle.
Edmure Tully is offering 1000 goldcoins for the *capture* of Jaime. That's a lot for a random soldier. You're comparing this number with the *ransom* number the Lannisters (the richest family) are asked to pay for a knight's release, or Selwyn Tarth offers for his daughter. Salladhor Saan demands so much because he's a big part of Stannis' fleet. It's 2 dozen ships that he puts at risk and he knows Stannis needs him. You don't have understand that to enjoy the story, but you can. The only thing that could be a mistake (or more like a conveniece) here is Anguy and the Hound losing their money, but maybe it's something that will come up again later. But then again, are they even able to carry it with them.
Edit: I am rereading ASOS now and the Brotherhood without Banners took the Hound's gold after they captured him.
And the story that Joffrey send the Valyrian Steel dagger is completely wrong. Tyrion has a hard time finding a motive for Joffrey to do that. It's all based on his preconception that Joffrey is cruel and stupid, which is not at all how George RR Martin sees his characters. His villains are the heroes of the other side. And the motive that Jaime comes up is also weak. And they come up with their motives right before and after Joffrey is killed. I don't see the purpose in that if Joffrey really did send the man to kill Bran, it's anticlimatic. I am 100% sure Joffrey was innocent of that crime and the real conspirator is still alive. Littlefinger had the dagger, then he lost it to Robert, then Joffrey took it and had it with him in Winterfell, then it was stolen. When Tyrion mentions the dagger at Joffrey's wedding this is what happens:
Joff gave him a sharp look. "You . . . yes, a dagger to match my sword, good." He nodded. "A . . . a gold hilt with rubies in it. Dragonbone is too plain."
To me, this sounds less like "Oh shit he knows it was me!" and more like "This treacherous dwarf did it!"
This is the moment both Tyrion and Joffrey come to the conclussion that each had sent the cutthroat. If you wondered why Joffrey was especially mean to Tyrion from this point on, it's because he thought Tyrion did it.
I totally agree with you, about gerion and joff, this guy just wants to nitpick
william crow What are you talking about? What you said is so random... 🙄
The cutthroat was sent by Mance. The motive may not be clear now, but it will make sense: the cutthroat was talking like a wildling, coins were found where he was hiding and Mance later mentions that he took coin purse with himself before crossing the wall to south, the cutthroat keeps repeating that "it's a mercy" which is something that Val says about Shireen when she says that in the north parents would be bold enough to mercy kill her, and even though Mance couldn't possibly predict that a guy named Littlefinger will blame a Lannister for this assassination thus creating a chaos south of the wall allowing for a wildling invasion, he could still have an entirely different, yet valid motive which is unclear now but since he is once again in Winterfell we can figure it out in the next book.
Also Mance could have stolen the dagger while he was with the Kings party as a freerider before arriving on Winterfell, or he could have easily stolen it while in Winterfell, simply by climbing into the the kings room through window and take the dagger. Remember, Mance is as good as, if not better than, Bran at climbing
The hound was robbed by the brotherhood for what sum I can't remember.
Ashley.JWilliams OFFICAL
.....nitpicking by pointing out legitimate errors in George R. R. Martin's writing like, Renly's eyes change colour, Jaime's horse changes GENDER or a physical description of a character or errors in how money works in the world...? No, that isn't nitpicking. George R. R. Martin is an amazing writer - my inspiration - but pointing out his mistakes is not automatically nitpicking...
Nitpicking is over-blowing small cracks in writing, and making a huge deal out of nothing, overly criticizing a minor mistake as if it was the worst thing ever...
*Savage Books* only POINTED out the errors in the text, but he said they did not break the story too much... *Savage Books* even said George R. R. Martin's way of writing is something to emulate...meaning the story is still amazing...
In the world building you choose the economics from the start because it is an essential thing. Even me a fanfic writer know this and practised it.He should've made the money from the start and note it. Other than that they are really small details.
9:00 because Joff didn't knew that the dagger was made of valyrian steel. Tyrion realized that in the Storm of Swords, at the purple wedding chapter
Very interesting video! 🙂
As a huge fan of George R. R. Martin and an aspiring writer myself, I found this video very insightful. Thank you for sharing this...
I spend so much time tightening up my world's rules, society and characters, so there would not be any inconsistencies in the narrative. I will admit there have been errors - not too many - but they were notable enough to make me shudder a little...
I typically write mainstream Drama books and high/low Fantasy novels with a lot of detail and characters. I realized writing Fantasy books requires much more rereads and revisions to maintain consistencies in the narrative, because my fantasy novels take place in a fictional secondary world I create.
Writing... It is difficult, I will admit, but it is also so much fun!
@History Eraser Button Martin is the best writer of characters I have ever read. That's his strength.
Good video, but I don't think the Valyrian steel dagger is a mistake. We aren't entirely sure it was Joffrey who ordered the murder (both Tyrion's and Jaimie's and Cersei's explanations don't make much sense and are filled with inconsistencies) but if we assume it was him you must consider that he was a sociopath, and not a very smart one, he could've perfectly given a Valyrian steel dagger to a cutthroat. The most likely explanation, however, is that this was part of a scheme, by someone like Littlefinger (He's the most obvious suspect, but there is the problem of how he would have known about Bran's fall in time to hire the cutthroat) or Mance Raider (He was in Winterfell at the time and would want to weaken the realm) who both would have wanted to start a conflict between Starks and Lannister's.
Information flies very fast in Westeros. I do think Little finger would have time to hire an assassin to kill Bran. In the books, a lot of time passes between chapters, and Cat had the time to reach Kingslanding even before Ned, just through sailing. The same can be true to Littlefinger. And I'm pretty sure he didn't had the idea of framing Tyrion in the last minute.
@@meurer13daniel
Actually, information does not travel fast in Westeros or Essos in the books. The television show, on the other hand, information is travelling faster than my emails. It takes months for Tywin to find out Tyrion is captured, and even longer for everyone to find out that Renly Baratheon has died. Only in _A Storm of Swords_ do they know he has died, though his death transpired halfway through _A Clash of Kings_ in Catelyn's third-last chapter. Young Griff's invasion in _A Dance with Dragons_ is only being talked about in the last chapter, despite it being happening for a while-and that is considering the fact that King's Landing is only weeks away from Storm's End.
Littlefinger had no idea Bran fell, thus him sending the catspaw is impossible. The catspaw attacks Bran shortly after Eddard Stark reaches King's Landing. It is only through the words of Catelyn did Lord Baelish find out. Him framing Tyrion was on a whim to save his own skin. Blaming someone that is not in King's Landing (and someone no one liked) was what he saw best to buy him some time to scheme. In the books, it is most likely Joffrey who sent the catspaw...or maybe it was Littlefinger.
Time is consistent in the books, and has a lot of time skips between and within chapters, but the lengthy time is still there in universe-it's just that we are fortunate enough not to read through all of it-else the books will drag too much.
@@ClaireYunFarronXIII actually it takes tywin very little time to find out that tyrion has been captured. Within a few weeks he has called his banners, gathered 2 armies and invaded the riverlands.
Good video mostly, I think the tyrion flipping thing belongs in the minor section personally but that's just me. As for the Dagger, well that's another story. Unlike the previous hips mistake that was confirmed by GRRM there have been no confirmations that the Dagger was a mistake, furthermore it is Tyrion that suggests that Joffery sent the catspaw based on a conversation he heard and it's not confirmed it was definitely Joffery. Basically that one falls firmly in the theory section until otherwise confirmed by GRRM.
Biggest mistake is he started a series he didn't know how to finish
His biggest mistake was making everything too large and letting it all get away from him. Now the next book is so big and complex he isn't able to finish.
The only mistake george made was giving his rights to these hacks D&D
When D&D had source material (Books) to go on they did great. Whose fault is it that they ran out of source material? I mean who wants Fire and Blood instead of Winds of Winter? So we can say his biggest mistake is not finishing what he started....
Christopher Rousseau it’s their fault 🤷🏻♂️
Christopher Rousseau there was enough source material to last several more seasons, but d&d were too arrogant to hand it over to someone else when they decided they want out. Now we have these rushed seasons.
Acolyte47 all the elements and new characters are there to make the show and season 5 ten times better but they skipped it for no reason 😔
Then we wouldn't have watched GoT you fucker, give the dudes some credit at least 😬😬
While rereading storm i got the impression that Joffrey does not recognize that it is a Valerian blade dager, he just boasts at the wedding that he is no stranger to Valerian steel.
The entire dagger explanation is weak, and Cersei's theory about it being Joffrey may be incorrect. I hope it's a deliberate inconsistency, and George plans to reveal a fitting explanation later on.
Keegan VerBurg twow will never be released buddy....
I swear I can recall GRRM himself saying that it was Joffrey who did it.
@@SSJ8Goku No, he said "the criminal will be revealed in that book". just because multiple people concluded that it was joffrey, it could be someone else that was hinted.
there's "hints" that it could have been mance
@@derekfurst6233 I'm just gonna stick with Mance too, because there's literally no one else it could be except Joffrey, which is a dumb choice.
It's Mance Rayder
Not even a minute into your analysis, your caption reads "Like taking 27 years to right [sic] this series." Not but a minute from the end, you advise us that "Once your [sic] put something on the page..." Seriously, dude, why should anyone listen to you commenting on an author's mistakes?
Prickly Pear (sic)???
Prickly Pear your a fucking idiot where are you getting sic from the first caption said Like taking 20 years to write this series and the second one says Once your put something on the page, it will affect your world forever the typo is your it’s supposed to say Once you put something on the page, it will affect your world forever one mistake you are a fucking moron
sic is latin for thus. It is used in writing to refer to someones original writings, in their original state. A quote if you will... You keep misspellings intact in those...
Prickly uses [sic] to let you know that he didn't make a typo, but Savage Books did, without using a bunch of words, like I had to do now. [sic] is a lot faster...
Matt Darwin... Are you for real? Amazing...
corbeau wow your an angry nerd on the internet you probs get no pussy lmao
@@mattdarwin3978 go get a girl and stop being such a virgin.
Gerion was Tyrion's and Jaime's favorite uncle, he wasn't a warrior and he loved Tyrion, he taught him to tumble and got him into books as well.
200 some odd steel SWORDS in the seven kindom. It is implied there are upwards of a couple thousand valryian steel odds and ends. we've seen relatively minor or poorish characters wielding valyrian steel aracks, we've seen valyiran steel armor, knives etc. Its not impossible to imagine that robbert had a number of items of similar value in his vault
maybe Jaime's horse in book 2 was just a different horse than that in book 1? -_-
On the end part of your video, it's pretty cool to observe how people plan out their stories. I always like to take the approach of mapping out my world and building it up before writing the story itself, because I've learned from writing fanfiction that working with what information I already have can really influence the overall plot of the story.
Daggers don't seem to be as rare as swords....euron gives away a number of them at the kings moot
Ofc, dagger requires much less valyrian steel.
But those werent probably daggers from westeross, just like his valyrian steel armor.
The books can only be over rated until they are finished. Literally everythings set on a cliff hanger of sorts and theres so much going on its hard to even imagine he'll be able finish it in 2 books.
Okay, was it an honest typo or a nerdy pun when this video mentioned, at the 10:30 mark, "Once you(r) put something on the page, it will affect your world forever"?
This video is 4 years old and just now recommended to me.
Glorious.
It sucks that in the show they didn't hint at Joffrey being behind the assassination attempt because he wanted to impress his father. It would have just added to the hatred of his character and would have given an early insight into the mind of Joffrey and some of the messed up things he thinks. Thinking the king and your father would be impressed by you pity killing a child is insane.
The biggest mistake is expanding the story when he should be shrinking it. I mean he adds a whole bunch of POVS for Dorne, Iron Islands, and the Golden Company. You could easily cut most of those and have a tighter story.
Great video! Would love to see more content like this. As a writer, it's kind of comforting to see these incredible authors are still mortal, and can make mistakes.
Shakira’s hips don’t lie, but apparently Jane Westerling’s hips do lie
I interpreted the hips as 2 different characters - being that she was switched out, and I thought he commented on this saying something to that effect, but I did not hear that he said it was a mistake, thanks for clearing that up. I thought it was something grrm was pulling hinting that it was not the right girl, and it was a sister or cousin acting as her and the wife w child or possibly and child are hiding with blackfish somewhere
The only real mistake with the Valyrian steel dagger is how Catelyn didn’t chop her fingers off when grabbing the sharp end as hard as she could.
*Once YOUR put something on the page, it will affect your world forever
"Always double check"
I think it makes perfect sense that someone like Joffrey would give an assassin a dagger as valuable as that - it’s reckless and misguided, but there’s also a sadistic glamour in assassinating someone with a Valyrian steel dagger - it’s cool.
tyrion tumbling makes sense. his uncle was known as the laughing lion, he was a humorous and lighthearted guy so he probably knew how to do tricks and jokes like that
Actually the laughing lion wasnt his uncle, it was his grandfather. The father of Tywin Lannister
>make a video about analyzing mistakes with great scrutiny
>the video is littered with typos
Like pottery. Jokes aside, I do like these analytical videos and understand that even small mistakes can have unforeseen ramifications. I can dig it.
The valyrian steel weapon is used to frame someone (we don't know by whom but it clearly worked given the wars that came from that conflict)
I think that GRRM's biggest mistake is expanding the story after "A Storm of Swords" with lots of new characters, locations, and plots, rather than condensing the story and moving it into the final act. It's how he got trapped in his current situation.
I once read that originally he intended some kind of time jump somewhere but ultimately ended up dropping the idea for some reason, and that this is what led to him writing himself into a corner.
@@lonestarr1490 I feel like the show saw this and tried to correct it, only to over-correct, making things feel too rushed, while the book series can feel too slow or too over-stuffed. But I guess that's a matter of opinion.
Preston Jacobs made a video explaining how Joffery didn’t hire the cats paw and why there was a Valyrian steel dagger.
This. It's a 40-minute-analysis of the case, and shows how the reasoning behind Joff being the culprit is off. The go-to-source.
th-cam.com/video/5MgJb_wh-K0/w-d-xo.html
A lot of your points are pretty explainable through logical leaps:
- Green eyes changing to blue can depend on lighting, my brother has eyes that do something similar
- Jon is knows nothing and I reckon Bran was out of commission close to that point in the story so
- Jaime easily could have switched horses
- Perspectives
- Etc.
This was an exceptionally insightful video. I might only disagree on Tyrion. That sort of stuff was typical learned by dwarves. And the point was to enjoy the audience (or friends) by the contrast of both clumsiness and acrobatics.
I really liked the show but i have some issues with it, especially in the later seasons. I haven’t read the books though
The fact that George was so embarrassed by the back-flipping Tyrion moment he invented a fun uncle that taught Tyrion how to tumble in order to explain it away.
The only hardened knight among Tywin's brothers was Kevan, with Tygett also fighting in the War of Ninepenny kings but apparently not knighted.
Tyrion was loved by Gerion and Tygett, the latter teaching him tumbling before Tyrion told him to stop. The dwarf troupe that entertains at the Purple Wedding does all sorts of tricks, including stunt riding pigs and dogs. Hence Tyrion can do a bit of flipping here and there.
Some of this is right but a lot is nitpicking , Tyrion is fun, Joffrey is a child
"Once *YOUR* put something on the page, it will affect your world forever."
I kept waiting to see if he would correct this at the end to make a point, but nope, seems it was a genuine mistake.
The irony of this is so exquisite that it transcends into unintentional poetry.
swear there was another lannister uncle called gerion or something who was really fun
His biggest mistake: not finishing his books before the show finished.
Ahhhh the internet. A place where lesser men try to tear down greater men with weak examples.
'Diet nerd' and 'Murder Santa' are my new favourite ASOIAF-related expressions, and I will subscribe to you based upon those alone. Well done, ser! :)
Honestly, pointing any of this as anything more than trivial mistakes is a little bit much, considering ASOIAF's scope. The real mistakes of his books are structural, and have nothing to do with specificities such as "the dagger" or someone's eyes. It has to do with the fact that the fourth and fifth books are a mess that don't even have true endings, it has to do with a series getting too many characters too far apart from each other and having very little progress in each episode they get.
And even then I prefer those latter books to what we got in the "equivalent" tv show seasons.
Surprised you have any interest in the series at all then really.
I've never understood the, "every book needs a begining middle and end" when talking about a book in the middle of a series spanning thousands of pages.
George's biggest mistake is having Tyrion do NOTHING to Littlefinger after becoming hand of the king. He knew LF lied to cat about the dagger which started the war and he does NOTHING about it. You missed the biggest mistake.
I'm sure it would take too much effort for you to actually get past the first sentence of my comment, and you have already declared your disinterest in considering an explanation, so why am I even bothering, but here we go.
There may well be some mistakes he has made concerning the value of currency and the amounts he mentions here or there, but your aggressive ignorance about how George clearly has in some instances knowingly considered and applied into his writing the realities of inflation/deflation is kind of hilarious to me. So you would prefer a less realistic setting on this particular matter. That's fine, but I wouldn't. I like this series because of how realistic it is and because of the remarkably FEW mistakes there are in the grand tapestry George has woven here. One in which things virtually ALWAYS stand up to being scrutinized. There may well be errors on his part as I said, but many (if not all) of your examples about the currency have very simple potential explanations. You seem to be arguing for a static economy like that of a video game vendor system.
Basics/logic. This is not a modern city where there are official prices and barcodes determining the cost of things, but rather it is a pre-industrial one where those with gold/silver can make offers as they like (though they cannot offer more than they have without going into debt) and those with goods or skills of value can ask whatever price they like for them. Have you heard of a place called San Francisco by the way? Many things there cost like 4 times what they do where I live. Does that fact hurt your brain? I am not even close to a expert on this kind of thing but its really not that complicated. You both refuse to consider certain things here, but also suggest that you consider this a serious threat to the narrative. THAT'S pretty funny.
I know you apparently don't like thinking about these things, but I will just mention one way in which George CLEARLY has knowingly considered inflation/deflation. In the dunk and egg series Westeros is still reeling from a very costly civil war, much of the labor force is dead, and therefore the currency has experienced deflation (there are details to why this is the case I will not pretend like I understand by the way, but I don't have to, I just have to understand its deflated), meaning every coin is worth more, there is less of it to go around, prices are lower, etc. Meanwhile, at the start of the book series, Westeros has been in a time of peace, prosperity, and summer for about 10 years and the population is relatively high. The currency has been inflated (this is not always a sign of an unhealthy economy by the way).
Also, I can't help it, you realize Salladar San's price was for for an entire fleet correct?
This was a great video! I’m proud to be one of your early subscribers! Thanks for your content!
Joffrey being Joffrey just chose the coolest and most unique dagger his daddy owned, unaware and unappreciative of comprehending how rare, priceless, and identifiable the dagger is.
I think the vs dagger being a mistake is harsh. We dont know know Joffrey's knowledge of the items value and being as he was such a spoilt little brat he potentially just didnt care.
Tyrion's uncle Gerion was chill and laid back tho
I'm pretty sure it was mance rayder who hired the cat'spaw to kill bran. He stole the dagger while at the feast to create conflict.
I agree with you, but Mance Is Arthur Dayne. Makes sense that a former king's guard would have a dragon bone hilted valyrian steel dagger.
Subscribing. It's great to see someone with a rational view about this stuff. The tendency of many fans is to engage in wild theories, and to refuse to consider the possibility of error. Like Kubrick, Martin has a certain kind of fan that likes to obsess and imagine that every detail is deliberate and therefor significant, but it's simply not so. There are errors, and there are irrelevancies. Martin has said as much.
Joffrey didn’t try to kill BRAN!!!!
Jane is not Jane.
And GRRM has said in interviews that there are things that aren’t mistakes that people think are mistakes, it’s just him being “Clever.”
Watch Preston. He will show you the way.
So you are looking perfection in a world where perfection doesn’t exist that is your first mistake
You ever consider that MAYBE someone gave the dagger on purpose to frame someone? Namely Joffrey or someone else like Robert? Among the catspaw’s belongings were a bag of silver, Mance brought a bag of silver with him when he went to winterfell during the arrival of Robert.
King Daeron I is mentioned as "Daeren" in the first Jon chapter, two different times: one by Jon, the other by Benjen. In the appendix is Daeron though. Could it be that some highborn Northeners don't study history as much as a maester do?
The Mistakes Of Savage Books: Writing the word write as Right.
“Murder Santa” 😆
The reason why tyrion jumps like an acrobat is because George thought that dwarfs did that, thats why they were always working as circus clowns and entertainers. Think about it. A grown ass man thought that stunted people could be acrobatic all his life until people pointed out in his novel
Correct.
I don't think that Joffrey had anything to do with the assassination. I think that the mysterious person who delivered the note to Catelyn (from Lysa/Littlefinger) at the beginning of the book blaming the Lannisters for the murder of Jon Arryn stuck around and attempted to kill bran (or any other easy Stark) in with a Lannister blade in order to fuel the hatred more (which it absolutely did). Catelyn ran to King's Landing, met up with her only real contact there (Littlefinger) and then was set on the warpath and ultimately started the War of The Five Kings. I think that Littlefinger orchestrated it all, including Ned getting beheaded rather than sent to the wall, as a way of causing the war and using the chaos to his own ends.
Yeah, the idea that the catspaw was also the messenger who was sent by Littlefinger and Lysa, makes a lot of sense.
Petyr Baelish basically ruined the value of gold by hoarding funds and spending while taking loans, all to benefit himself
GRRM did eventually say it was a mistake of his to have Tyrion be acrobatic in the first book, so he tried to do a little bit of a fix in "DWD"about his uncle Gerion teaching him to caper about.
Tyrion, upon realizing that Joffrey was the man behind the catspaw figured that Joffrey didn't realize the worth of the blade. Apparently, Robert had a great many knives and he only used the one he got as a boy from Jon Arryn. Joffrey stole the blade, not realizing it was a)Valyrian Steel and b)Littlefinger's, and all out of a misguided attempt to gain Roberts favour over a drunken comment Robert made.
You didn't mention another big mistake, which was Robert giving Jaime(a Kingsguard knight)the title of Warden of the East as of Neds chapter in the Barrowlands after they leave Winterfell.
(10:00) JRR Martin is a gardener style writer??? How the hell does he foreshadow things that happen way later in the series then?!?
Gardeners still plot out where the plants are going to grow but they don't know how they are going to grow, what kind of tending they'll need, or how the other plants and even the elements will affect the garden as a whole. To stick with the metaphor...
@@melindam128 GRRM is actually marwyn the mage.
The valerian steel dagger was one of my biggest issues with the show, and in the show this pet peeve of mine culminated in the hasty and contrived loose-end-burning execution of one of my favorite characters, Littlefinger. I agree he should die, possibly how it happens in the show (and most satisfyingly on Sansa's orders), but that this Hope Diamond of weapons should have been in the hands of an assassin to begin with is ludicrous. Thank you!
"20 years to RIGHT this series"
Make a video called The Mistakes of Savage Books next :D
Maybe Martin will resolve this in the books, but for me the biggest issue is structural. The threat of the White Walkers and the struggle for the Iron Throne seem at odds with each other, and yet both elements were deliberately introduced early in the narrative. I really like the notion of an existential threat being overlooked for the sake of petty squabbling, but it renders a satisfying conclusion difficult to achieve. The two plot lines exist virtually independent of each other and yet are largely dependent on the same cast of characters. I'll be fascinated to see how Martin deals with this problem in the books because the resolution in the TV version was deeply unsatisfying.
The dagger thing will probably get a better explanation soon. I still believe Littlefinger had something to do with it, which makes much more sense than Joffrey doing it.
Winter Fire GRRM said before the release of a Storm of swords that the answer to this question was in that book, both Jaime and Tyrion in that book figure it’s Joffrey. Case closed
@@oliviawilliams6204 and when are POV characters ever right about anything?
@@dustinsmith2021 Sometimes theya re yeah, particularly when GRRm promised answer and 2 characters reach the same conclusions with different evidences
I really wish we got a POV for Robb and got to see his conquest in the Westerlands. It would've been great to see him being seemingly invincible to make the Red Wedding even more tragic. This is probably because Robb is one of my favorite characters
Small mistake: the location of the House with the Red door and the lemon tree: Tyrosh vs Braavos (lemons don't grow in the Braavosi climate and in an earlier story the house was in Tyrosh).
daddyleon
Might even be elevated to a mid-level mistake because fans have based so much speculation about Dany's "true identity" on it.
@@alanpennie8013 hahaha yes! Very significant, indeed. While sometimes it's overblown, I do like those 'delving deeper'-theories. So yea, perhaps, mid-level it is.
I don't think it is a mistake. He's even mentioned so often in other chapters quite explicitly that lemons don't grow in Braavos, but they do in Dorne (even in the forthcoming Mercy chapter in TWOW).
@AdamBlacksburg Sure, gardens...but lemon's can't grow there. And isfaik we know GRRM sometimes writes people being mistaken - as people irl are, especially when they're really young.
A quick look around got me to this: www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/9bme42/spoilers_published_the_dragon_from_tyrosh/ I don't have the booklet/magazine or what ever, nor a photo, but apparently others do ;)
@@daddyleon
Yes GRRM's unreliable narrator technique provides cover for any mistakes in his narrative.
His biggest mistake is blindingly obvious: He hasn't finished the friggin' series yet!
Ayo, nothin for nothin, but Tyrion doing acrobatics was a reference to Edgar Allen Poe's story, Hop-Frog.
I know this is obvious but it's something I often need to remind myself of, so maybe this will help other people: These are rules for when you are revising and editing your work. Do not let any of these mistakes stop you from actually putting things on the page. You cannot create the perfect story ahead of time and produce A Song of Ice and Fire in one shot just by doing lots of prep work. Write, and write badly if you need to. And then revise and improve it until it is what you want it to be, and if you do that part well enough no one will care about the mistakes that make it past you.
About the Valyrian steel dagger. It has a dragon bone hilt which itself is inconsistent. I don't remember all the descriptions of dragon bone, but it's always described as black, that's consistent, but depending on the chapter your reading, it either looks like black diamond or it definitely doesn't look like black diamond. This is probably a little theory. Like green eyes versus blue eyes or thicc versus skinny.
Just found your channel. Great work. Could I make an odd request: Do a video about how you would re-write the plot/characters of Halo: Reach. Thanks, subbed.
The only mistake I care about is giving those hacks the rights to his work.
The reason Jaime's bounty was so low is because the karstarks aren't that wealthy of a family
Also Jamie being made warden of the east. That was setting up some plot that never happens i bet. And it makes no sense at all once we know the world. How can the warden of the east not be a lord from the east? Just a member of the kinds guard as warden? No way
Good catch. I was rereading the first book and that puzzled me too.
Ned Stark says the same thing to Robert.
How are you going to make a video criticizing writing but spell writing as "righting" when saying he is taking forever writing the story
In all seriousness, thanks for you content; this stuff is invaluable to perpetually procrastinating aspiring writers such as myself.
Peter Dinkledge told Martin the Tyrion tumbling thing was a mistake, a little offensive, and would not be a part of the character in the show. Martin agreed, though since it was already in the books, he felt obligated to give it a pay off in the books during Tyrion's journey to Essos.