Where do we belong in the "new south africa?" We are only black when they need the votes, but too coloured when we need jobs. It happened in the previous dispensation and now in the anc's south africa. We are overlooked in every way.
Thank you ladies, I commend you and I am so proud as this is a defining moment for us coloured people of SA. I am cape coloured born and breaded and still experience racism in the work place by whites. Please get those books in the stores so that our children can read and those t-shirts too please so that we can proudly wear them!
😂😂😂, is Coloured a race ? You guys make me laugh . Europeans created a so called identity for you ,the language you speak is NOT an indigenous african language, so finally you guys are like bats 😂😂😂
Blacks want everyone to be black, when instead they should accept people of other races. Colourds have their own culture as do whites,Indians and chinese. We won't assymulate to black culture we not the one with an identity crisis
When will coloureds push for changing cape town name to a Khwe Xam name? You guys are not proud of your Khwe Xam heritage. What’s the difference between coloureds and your oppressors from europe? White people made them ashamed of their African heritage.
Life, culture, life stories all come with living spirit. With due respect being black for isn’t political, it's culture, it's language, it's how I interact with other people around me, it's race and all the prejudice against me that comes with it, etc. Am black and will always be black. With RESPECT to the pannelists to be coloured and the say you can't employ black teachers here or vice versa is to who you are and against others, but I agree people should define themselves and live in their own terms
I'm coloured from Westbury and super proud to be coloured! It's not an insult to be called white, asian or black, it's just that people need to accept that we are our own people that actually doesn't want to be black enough or white enough. We are happy the way we are which is the most diverse race on the planet.
The problem is finding comfort in being classified by our skin coulor by our colonizers and it continues to divide than to build. Before Jan van riebeeck we were africans
Well said & it’s not even about skin colour either it’s much more nefarious symbolism as there is no healthy living human being with white skin (not even the palest) or black skin (not even the most melanated). If it was truly about complexion & not some faux-ethnographic descriptions then those who identify as white would be called by beige or pinkish red depending on complexion and those they call black would be whatever shade of brown. Interestingly Non-European people with albinism they are not considered white, they literally have little to no melanin. There are Asian groups that have paler skin tones than some Europeans but again they are not called white. That shows again that it’s not about skin complexion. The native Americans/First Nations people of America and the East Asians did well rejecting the colonial labels of being called ‘red’ and ‘yellow’ respectively. Words are powerful & one should not embrace names or labels coming from those with ulterior motives.
Yes Africans in Africa. The Bantu Migration occurred so did colonialism blacks cannot redefine history orcwipe away culture. We won't assymulate to being blacks as non blacks. Deal with reality and stop blaming everyone else because you feel inferior... all blacks are doing is creating a white consiousness and colourd consiousness. It's blacks dividing everyone
This is basically how Louisiana Creoles in the U.S. define themselves there are heavily mixed creoles and then there are white creoles who are mostly white and there are black creoles who say they are black American but Creole also.
It's complicated, very complicated. We are all human with different backgrounds. We all want to be loved and respected but we will behave differently in situations, we speak differently, we eat different food.
Hahaha, when i travel aboad people think i am from Italy, Portugal, Turkey, India lol..and I am like just think whatever...i am tired explaining my ancestry background. Coloured people comes from different ancestry backgrounds. The white man didnt know what to call us so the name coloured word came out. There are coloured people who looks more white than the white people themselves lol...my great grandfather comes from Holland met his dark skinned french wife. So some of the children came out looking " coloured" and some looking very dutch. This caused problems and problems. It divided us as a family. Our white relatives doesnt want to know us and we okay with that. We happy being called coloured . I grew up in a happy coloured community. I am not ashamed to tell people i am coloured but abroad i am tired explaining myself so i let them think what i am.
Whoever is associating colourd culture with violence and gangsterism is doing out ignorence. I think we need to educate our selfs about south African history.
Proud Kullid ! marrried to a man of Tswana n Colored heritage ...we hve beautiful exotic looking kids ...Many ways of being Colored ... Jst enjoy being alive ...in a time like this❤😊❤😊
My Mother says we were classified by the Boer pulling a pencil through our hair. Tight hair was classified differently to straight hair 😂. Proudly tight and Coloured ❤ 🇿🇦
while it’s argued that there is a distinct “colored culture,” this could be seen as a recent construct rather than a deep-rooted cultural identity. The notion of “colored culture” has emerged largely as a reaction to historical exclusion, rather than as an independent cultural tradition that developed over centuries. While it’s valuable to recognize and celebrate individual cultural expressions within the community, conflating this with an essential ethnic identity may be limiting and reductive.
My fellow south africans , culture or classification by apartheid is not your identity. YOUR identity comes from your father not your mother or community ...you do not choose who you are , your father's chromosome that gets passed to your children...determines your identity...your value...your confidence...
If my father is Chinese but I am raised by vhavenda, there is no way I can call myself Chinese. I don't practice that culture. I am muvenda, that is how I was brought up.
This topic does not concern you. Every country looks at race and culture differently. Coloured (South African) and Colored (American) is not the same thing neither is it the same culture. We don't do one drop rule in the rest of the world. In South Africa we don't deny any of our ethnicities. We respect where your perspective comes from, but after the colonizer decided to strip our identities, we took the word back and made it our own and created a language and culture out of it. So the topic was not about u, nor would we impose our believes and culture on u
Nobody said anything about skin tone or colour. They are referring to our coloured culture in South Africa. A culture that was born out of colonialism and slavery. Something negative that we turned into a positive. This has nothing to do with the American perception and feelings of the word coloured.
We have mix coloured like my gran father he was white he married a beautiful Coloured woman my gran Ma ....Now my dad children were born with blonde hair some blonde and some dark hair We proudly being a Coloured who ever look different we Love them where we meet them....All Coloured have love for each other from me growing up until now....By being Coloured white Africans we all Humans we God people ❤❤❤
I have an identity crisis. My father is coloured and my mother is black, I grew up in black township and I look more coloured. Growing up I classified as coloured, but since well being coloured is about culture, does that mean I can’t classify as one?
To understand this...People must start reading the comments....the White Domkoppe has got a long way to go...you don't shake off 350years of white dominance in 30years....A big problem about many issues in SA is people lost their sence of thinking rationally...
Apartheid robbed black people of their identity...who they are...Fathers were removed from their families...Son and daughters lost who they are...lost self love ...lost self esteem...we need God..
I LOVE THESE TWO WOMEN. I wish they could debate the celebrity wannabe Samantha Jansen and put her in her place. She ridicules coloured people and throws our people under the bus to appease Pan Africanist afrocentric black supremacists and coloured hating black people. Some, if not most of us are mixed with blackness so blackness is very much a part of our family tree. That DOES NOT MEAN that we have to one drop rule ourselves out of existence and deny the fullness of our identity. I am COLOURED AND PROUD to be. Samantha Jansen wants to become a celebrity off of trashing our people. These 2 women give me hope for the future of COLOURED PEOPLE. Their VOICES NEED TO BE ELEVATED.
Why White South Africans appear less preoccupied with 'identity' and self-segregation within their 'white' community ? While divisions do exist among them, these divisions do not seem to occupy as much attention as the divisions within the Black community. This extended commentary respectfully challenges the narrative presented by the authors. The argument is flawed on so many levels. I shall limit myself to specific ways in which the authors are effectively defending colonial identity to safeguard the emotions and anxieties of white South Africa. Before delving deeper, let's acknowledge Stephen Groote's enthusiasm for this discussion, perhaps more fitting for another occasion, but still worthy of recognition and appreciation for his contributions. The celebration of diverse ethnic identities, like Zulu, Xhosa, Tswana, and the category of "Coloured," should be understood as deeply rooted in colonial constructs. Historically, the territories now called Africa lacked a pre-existing "Nation"; instead, they were inhabited by diverse communities. The notion of 'nations' is a modern construct tied to European capitalist expansion, both within and beyond Europe. Early European accounts consistently labeled those in African lands as non-white and, in many cases, non-human. Consequently, Africa was perceived as universally Black, subjected to a gaze often referred to as the White gaze, which compartmentalized its inhabitants. With the advent of slavery and colonialism, Africa was formally incorporated into Europe's dominion, a condition that persists in various forms today. To fully grasp the enduring influence of settler colonial power, it's essential to consider the regionalization of Blackness, particularly in the South African context. To do this, we must briefly delve into the historical roots of identity in SOuth Africa. Identity, as we know it today, traces its origins back to the early era of settler colonialism by British and Dutch, German, and French immigrants collectively known as Afrikaners. Essentially, there was no South Africa prior to the onset of settler colonialism; these lands were predominantly inhabited by people seen through the White gaze as non-white or Black. These European groups vied for control over both people and lands, stratifying them based on identity, thus giving rise to various labels and so-called "ethnic" identities. In 1910, they officially established SOuth Africa as a "nation-state," notably excluding Black participation. For instance, one of the key figures in shaping the South African identity, Jan Smuts, in letters to his colleagues before and after the 1910 union, was primarily concerned with the 'Native,' a euphemism for Black individuals. Subsequently, methods were developed to distinguish Black people based on the regions they inhabited. Opportunistic figures like Mr. Buthelezi later claimed demarcated regions like “Kwazulu-Natal” as “Zulu” homelands, relinquishing the broader claim to Blackness in favor of tribal identities. This maneuver helped maintain power while fragmenting the discourse of Blackness and the struggle for place and belonging. Buthelezi accomplished this, and to this day, there are Zulu-speaking South Africans who primarily identify as Zulus (rather than Zulu-speaking individuals), relegating their Blackness to a secondary status. Interestingly; Globally, these individuals predominantly identify as Black first. It is at this level that I believe by proclaiming identity outside of Black and simply use Black as a so called "political identity" is particularly telling in SOuth Africa. This cannot be dissociated from the settler colonial present of SOuth Africa. In my view, the label "Coloured" including all other so called "ethnic" identities (outside of European) is applied in South Africa to manage the anxieties of white South Africans concerning potential loss of claims to South Africa and identity. It is disheartening to witness colleagues staunchly upholding a problematic concept of identity. For instance, they say; Trevor Noah is often referred to as "Coloured" due to his mixed racial heritage - and they reject Trevor's identity as coloured. This is confusing. Ideally, globally, the meaning of coloured is mix-ed. Trevor could then say he is politically Black - but either way, Trevor is in fact coloured. If coloured then is simply culture - why should it be the major identifying feature before one's Blackness. Think about Bishop Alan Boesak - although considered Coloured, the Bishop, in fact is Black. He identifies as Black. Again, the point here is; Engaging in a culture labelled as "Coloured" may involve practicing certain cultural traditions, but it should not obscure one's fundamental identity, which remains Black. This situation highlights an invented interpretation of "Coloured" in South Africa, which can lead to confusion. By historicizing this concept and relying on writings that safeguard certain emotions and interests, we risk perpetuating divided Black unity in the face of neo-colonialism. The two writers frequently draw comparisons between the Zulu identity and the need to defend the Coloured identity. However, this argument lacks the historical nuance that demands not just reading, but critical, self-reflective reading, as mentioned earlier. The term "Coloured" has historically been employed to differentiate Blackness, much like the label "Zulu." Nevertheless, it's imperative to acknowledge that there is no singular entity known as "Zulu"; instead, there are various Zulu-speaking communities. While categorizing Blackness can provide informative insights, it also perpetuates division, aligning with settler colonial logic. Therefore, it is crucial to reject the label "Coloured" and reaffirm Blackness. Some individuals may use "Coloured" to avoid the term "Khoi," which is sometimes seen as derogatory. Similarly, some "Coloured" people who are, in fact, "Khoi" sometimes reject that label, highlighting the complexity of identity within South Africa. The concept of being "politically Black" and referencing Steve Biko is often invoked but not always deeply understood. Sometimes, it is used to avoid the label "Black" as if it's an undesired identity. However, Steve Biko never called for the provincialization of Blackness in South Africa. In fact, Biko commented on the attitudes of certain "Coloured" and Indian comrades who were hesitant to fully embrace Black identity. A recommended read is Mabogo More's book "Biko: Philosophy, Identity, and Liberation," which delves into Biko's less-quoted writings about the debates surrounding Black identity among the oppressed. One thing that becomes evident here is a resistance to embracing Blackness as an identity and a problematic leaning on being "politically Black." This is an avoidance of Blackness and an attempt to further fragment Blackness. It's worth noting that any attempts to fragment Blackness in South Africa, the United States, the United Kingdom, and other places often follow a logic that divides the oppressed based on labels and labeling methods that overlook historical context. Consider, for instance, the group commonly referred to as "Khoi," who are now increasingly viewed as "First Nation." This discourse seems to replicate settler colonial histories from the Americas and Australia, where indigenous populations were subjected to genocide. What it suggests effectively is that; SA is, in fact, a 'nation-state' - even a State. It suggests that South Africa (new colony) is, in fact, outside of Africa. It divides Blacks according to "Nguni" "Khoi," etc. - for the fun and comfort of the settlers. They lie to themselves that some came from up North and 'found' "others" down south - to confuse all of us. Africans had been criss-crossing the continent for thousands of years. No. Africa is historically a Black women's world - it has always been. It has produced different shades of Black that were classified by the divisive onlooker whose intentions were to "stay" and occupy the Place. The idea of "First nation" is deeply problematic and extremely colonial and uncritical. We must read the history, including the archaeological and anthropological work about 'Africa,' with a serious critical lens. Why is it that we never hear about the different shades of Europeans? We know about the Jewish people and how they were racialized - but we never hear much about the different shades of Europeans, especially the so-called "First nations" - I wonder why. To address the initial question of why white South Africans do not seem preoccupied with creating separate identities, one must consider that, for the maintenance of the settler colonial context in Africa, this notion of "nobody's land" must persist. This land, which was subject to slavery and colonialism, needs to remain undefined. Self-identifying as "Coloured" isn't inherently problematic; however, advocating that this culture should be one's primary identity as "Coloured" before acknowledging one's Blackness suggests a reluctance to embrace one's true identity, which is Black. The authors' logic appears to echo the older concept of fetishizing Blackness, as opposed to recognizing the diverse cultural elements within the Black identity. It's crucial to place "Coloured" within the broader context of cultural richness. Some individuals may be culturally "Coloured" while still identifying as Black. This distinction, while seemingly similar to the authors' argument, underscores a shift away from provincializing Blackness within the South African context. Such provincialization caters to white anxieties and settler colonialism, ultimately hindering the progress of Black people.
Im proudly coloured,,,i dont care how many times this "race " thing is debated,its just people's opinions anyway!!! Leave people alone,,,this has been debated to death and nothing has changed!!
@@imeldamayer-taylor2783 You didn't answer the previous question. WOULD YOU CALL YOURSELF AFRICAN ?? 😂 By the way , is Coloured a race ? If it's a race I guess tour white masters created it because Before Europeans invaded Africa THERE WAS NO SUCH A THING AS COLOURED
Glad that they say they are politically Black because they are just Black people really. The Apartheid system couldn't afford to have all Black people working together so they found a way to create divisions. The scales are starting to fall off the eyes of the "Coloured" Blacks in South Africa finally❤
Fact is it was created because they wanted us 2 forget or leave behind xhosa zulu khosan venda and so on and become like them and thr customs that was the whole intent thats what the managed to do with the americans lets not get it twisted you are your fathers child at the end and most of us gave up on that because we became opressed thats why alot of black people also changed thr last names to fit in because our cultures were not accepted by our oppressors
Black or colored. We never named ourselves. This is just word play . Its a colonial joke.its based on interacial relationships not culture.Theres mixed children worldwide with all soughts of cultures infused because of it but its not complicated.
as part of the slavery process, we were denied the right to speak our original languages. This was enforced by the ripping out of teeth with pliers , or cutting off of tongues, or simply whippings.
Allow me to help out. I am 73 yrs and speak afrikaans till now. My grandfather died in 1951 at the age 71 and spoke Afrikaans. My great grandmother who died in 1941 at the age 84 spoke Afrikaans like "you and I" (direct words of My grandfather's brother Oompie Gert). This means that Afrikaans has been part of my family since 1857. I am of the opinion that we as a family or community spoke Afrikaans before whites who, I think made it a scientific language with Germanic and Anglo Saxon grammar derivitaves and inclinations. It was regarded as the lingua franca of the workers in the house holds of the Dutch and English in order not to be understood at times. Secondly, afrikaans could have been the "funny galore" of Dutch English East Asian Khoisan and San languages. There you have it. Some food for thought 🤔. I am proudly Coloured.
@@winstoncoerecius Thank you for sharing. You should start a TH-cam channel chronicling your life. I’d love to hear more about what it means to be coloured. Follow up question: What race were the Khoi-san?
I love the story the ladies bring home about our people, the coloured people. We are infact Afrikanders and as always the Afrikaners took uit the "d" and stole the word and calling of our people. Afrikanders is a collective word, inclusive of all the indigenous people, griekwa, misbieker, hottentot, nana, boesman and many others. Ons is aangename mense. Ons hoef ons nie te verduidelik nie.
@@PatrickJacobs-u1fTrevor Noah's father is Swiss , then Trevor is a Swiss man, Trevor's kids will be Swiss..how he looks...who he grew up with ...what language he speaks ...is not who he is..
@@sengamemela3720his fathers nationality is Swiss but his ethno-cultural background is German to be exact. Trevor Noah is raised in a Xhosa household. There are many people who are raised in a single mother households and identify with the ethnic background of their mothers because that’s the culture they know… some like Trevor even carry their mother’s surname. These things are social constructs so they can be as complex or as simple as you want to make them.
@LM-rg9lj Identity is about how you feel and acceptance of the in-group. Bernie Mcathy for example is coloured but Pearl Thusi is not. In biological terms all human beings are of the same species. It’s a human race, there is no mixing of races.
@@sengamemela3720That's not how things done in Xhosa culture darling, hes mixed and parents never got married that's why he follows Xhosa culture and customers. He must follow mothers Culture since parents never got married. He had to use dad's surname under the circumstances of Apartheid otherwise he'd be using mom's surname
I am good on all the false labels Europeans put on African. I am not black or colored, I am African my ethnic groups Amhara and Igbo. My nationality is USA citizen.
@@lilianhaggland2031😂😂who even care that you are not black. Before your European ancestors invaded Africa ,we Indigenous african were all just africans. There was no such a mess as coloured . You guys are a manufacturered product made by Europeans
Whoever trying to define a coloured in South Africa is most certainly a foreigner. The NP Party new coloured people. Likewise the ANC. Did this people in this country suddenly contract dementia over night. Let's ask the question who is the bantu people and where did they come from?
I am a white African, born in Zambia. 100 000 years ago my ancestors migrated from south Africa up Africa, into Europe and finally north Europe. When they started their nomadic migration they where the colour of the khoi people of 🇿🇦. As they progressed north to the equator the became darker and their bodies changed to compensate for various reasons. As they headed further north their skin became pale until they got to northern Europe where not only were they white, but they had more hair to keep them warm, due to the cold. If my white family live in Africa for 100 000 years, they will be black. If a black mans family live in northern Europe for 100 000 years they will be white and hairy. That's the only difference between you and I.
Or did culture become classification? Also, Why do they consider themselves "politically Black", when the ANC is discriminating against them with AA & BEE?
They never want to claim being black, unless it suits them. I could never mistake them for non-black If our stuggles are categorised, and our race is separated we can't claim where we see fit If one speaks of their original race(khoisan), why not reclaim it
The term black is a social construct status meaning nonexistent or dead under the black codes color of law(Civility Mortuus)and has no legal standing. Black is a color not a race or ethnicity or nationality. (Matt 24:3,14,42,44; Rev 7:9,10)
They say they are khoisan, and different from mixed. How do I see black to the ambiguous people with an accent? (question; do khoisan sound black when they speak English? Sounds like it)
@@tech_tm3874There is no sounding black. Khoisan are actually have vastly different experiences from black people. Blackness is a construct based on skin color which is why Khoisan with lighter skin when discovered by colonist weren’t considered such, also there facial features as well. That’s why Khoisan aren’t viewed as such because of history of not really having that label.
On this earth is black and white. ALthough these colours dont exactly refer to human beings.What is it with red indians? I Will never like to be called a coloured.If I am not white then l am black I will rather accept my self to be called black. IF one of my parent is white another one black then I am a mixed child it is apity I belong to both, Black and awhite .Where am l now going to be put , by none Whites or none Blacks?. lwill choose to be called aSouthAfrican. (never mind which direction but just look where l was born.. THe country where l was born is SouthAfrica and l am a SouthAfrican. l would belong to all the traditions of the country .. OFCOURSE l have my name if you want to call me.
Which part of your anatomy is black or white? When you did colours in nursery and primary school does it compute? When people of different skin tones wear nude colours, what colours are they wearing? Interesting never black or white.
I am a colored from Swaziland, we are such a beautiful, diverse culture, our white faces, straight noses, or flat and wiry hair. We are not complaining, can the media not make a story out of this for clicks
Iam glad we’re having this conversation as a country ❤
hope you dont call yourself coloured,
This is not a country it's 3 people telling the truth. Not that it's going to matter.
Where do we belong in the "new south africa?" We are only black when they need the votes, but too coloured when we need jobs. It happened in the previous dispensation and now in the anc's south africa. We are overlooked in every way.
These ladies did an amazingly fantastic job in articulating and communicating this topic. 🇿🇦❤️🇿🇦❤️🇿🇦
Im coloured proudly coloured... period
Am black and i don't have problem with coloured people. We are all our own,lets love them and respect who they are and there cultures.
Which black though, majority of people complaining of coloured are Americans. Black South Africans don’t really have a problem with it.
My coloured friends are all proud of being coloured and their own unique culture.
I'm sure there are a few exceptions.
Thank you ladies, I commend you and I am so proud as this is a defining moment for us coloured people of SA. I am cape coloured born and breaded and still experience racism in the work place by whites. Please get those books in the stores so that our children can read and those t-shirts too please so that we can proudly wear them!
😂😂😂, is Coloured a race ?
You guys make me laugh . Europeans created a so called identity for you ,the language you speak is NOT an indigenous african language, so finally you guys are like bats 😂😂😂
Im from the family of coloured but it doesn't bother us bcoz we celebrate culture. Proudly who we are.
You are black and you should be celebrating your blackness
Blacks want everyone to be black, when instead they should accept people of other races. Colourds have their own culture as do whites,Indians and chinese. We won't assymulate to black culture we not the one with an identity crisis
Create your OWN name for your culture, stop using a name that South African apartheidists chose for you.
😂😂 what culture do you have?
When will coloureds push for changing cape town name to a Khwe Xam name?
You guys are not proud of your Khwe Xam heritage. What’s the difference between coloureds and your oppressors from europe?
White people made them ashamed of their African heritage.
Life, culture, life stories all come with living spirit.
With due respect being black for isn’t political, it's culture, it's language, it's how I interact with other people around me, it's race and all the prejudice against me that comes with it, etc. Am black and will always be black.
With RESPECT to the pannelists to be coloured and the say you can't employ black teachers here or vice versa is to who you are and against others, but I agree people should define themselves and live in their own terms
I'm coloured from Westbury and super proud to be coloured! It's not an insult to be called white, asian or black, it's just that people need to accept that we are our own people that actually doesn't want to be black enough or white enough. We are happy the way we are which is the most diverse race on the planet.
😂😂😂awee my ma se kente
I am a coloured South African and proud of what our people bring to the South African culture
Im coloured and proud 2 be one
Orania is a good place.
The problem is finding comfort in being classified by our skin coulor by our colonizers and it continues to divide than to build. Before Jan van riebeeck we were africans
Well said & it’s not even about skin colour either it’s much more nefarious symbolism as there is no healthy living human being with white skin (not even the palest) or black skin (not even the most melanated). If it was truly about complexion & not some faux-ethnographic descriptions then those who identify as white would be called by beige or pinkish red depending on complexion and those they call black would be whatever shade of brown. Interestingly Non-European people with albinism they are not considered white, they literally have little to no melanin. There are Asian groups that have paler skin tones than some Europeans but again they are not called white. That shows again that it’s not about skin complexion. The native Americans/First Nations people of America and the East Asians did well rejecting the colonial labels of being called ‘red’ and ‘yellow’ respectively. Words are powerful & one should not embrace names or labels coming from those with ulterior motives.
Yes Africans in Africa. The Bantu Migration occurred so did colonialism blacks cannot redefine history orcwipe away culture. We won't assymulate to being blacks as non blacks. Deal with reality and stop blaming everyone else because you feel inferior... all blacks are doing is creating a white consiousness and colourd consiousness. It's blacks dividing everyone
@@africacan There were no coloureds before colonization
@@africacanWe were umNTU *singular and abaNTU *plural , hence umNTU ngumNTU ngabaNTU....
@@StudyWithKaraboThere were no black people, because blackness like Americans keep forgetting, is a social construct. There were only tribes.
This is basically how Louisiana Creoles in the U.S. define themselves there are heavily mixed creoles and then there are white creoles who are mostly white and there are black creoles who say they are black American but Creole also.
It's complicated, very complicated. We are all human with different backgrounds. We all want to be loved and respected but we will behave differently in situations, we speak differently, we eat different food.
So proud of these young ladies. Eloquent & so articulate
Hahaha, when i travel aboad people think i am from Italy, Portugal, Turkey, India lol..and I am like just think whatever...i am tired explaining my ancestry background. Coloured people comes from different ancestry backgrounds. The white man didnt know what to call us so the name coloured word came out. There are coloured people who looks more white than the white people themselves lol...my great grandfather comes from Holland met his dark skinned french wife. So some of the children came out looking " coloured" and some looking very dutch. This caused problems and problems. It divided us as a family. Our white relatives doesnt want to know us and we okay with that. We happy being called coloured . I grew up in a happy coloured community. I am not ashamed to tell people i am coloured but abroad i am tired explaining myself so i let them think what i am.
Why don’t your white relatives want to “know” you?
Whoever is associating colourd culture with violence and gangsterism is doing out ignorence. I think we need to educate our selfs about south African history.
Is it true though? Is it not true that a significant colored youth population glorifies gangsterism?
Proud Kullid ! marrried to a man of Tswana n Colored heritage ...we hve beautiful exotic looking kids ...Many ways of being Colored ... Jst enjoy being alive ...in a time like this❤😊❤😊
My Mother says we were classified by the Boer pulling a pencil through our hair. Tight hair was classified differently to straight hair 😂. Proudly tight and Coloured ❤ 🇿🇦
Stop living the apartheid lies, you are black.
Create your OWN name for your culture, stop using a name that South African apartheidists chose for you.
The coloured are creoles like in Sierra Leone, Cape Verde and other African countries. Creole may be a better name to call coloured South Africans.
while it’s argued that there is a distinct “colored culture,” this could be seen as a recent construct rather than a deep-rooted cultural identity. The notion of “colored culture” has emerged largely as a reaction to historical exclusion, rather than as an independent cultural tradition that developed over centuries. While it’s valuable to recognize and celebrate individual cultural expressions within the community, conflating this with an essential ethnic identity may be limiting and reductive.
My fellow south africans , culture or classification by apartheid is not your identity. YOUR identity comes from your father not your mother or community ...you do not choose who you are , your father's chromosome that gets passed to your children...determines your identity...your value...your confidence...
No way. U choose ho u want to identify
If my father is Chinese but I am raised by vhavenda, there is no way I can call myself Chinese. I don't practice that culture. I am muvenda, that is how I was brought up.
Your Identity comes from BOTH parents
I am lighter than both of these women, i am African American and identify as Black. Period. Please don't ever call me coloured.
This topic does not concern you. Every country looks at race and culture differently. Coloured (South African) and Colored (American) is not the same thing neither is it the same culture. We don't do one drop rule in the rest of the world. In South Africa we don't deny any of our ethnicities. We respect where your perspective comes from, but after the colonizer decided to strip our identities, we took the word back and made it our own and created a language and culture out of it. So the topic was not about u, nor would we impose our believes and culture on u
Hey what is all the fuss about coloured dont insult other people we are all God's people he has no race or colour he has children stop ur nonsense
Nobody said anything about skin tone or colour. They are referring to our coloured culture in South Africa. A culture that was born out of colonialism and slavery. Something negative that we turned into a positive. This has nothing to do with the American perception and feelings of the word coloured.
We have mix coloured like my gran father he was white he married a beautiful Coloured woman my gran Ma ....Now my dad children were born with blonde hair some blonde and some dark hair We proudly being a Coloured who ever look different we Love them where we meet them....All Coloured have love for each other from me growing up until now....By being Coloured white Africans we all Humans we God people ❤❤❤
Great, peppercorn hair has disappeared.
@@nnfefe9451 You are clearly a white South African.
I have an identity crisis. My father is coloured and my mother is black, I grew up in black township and I look more coloured. Growing up I classified as coloured, but since well being coloured is about culture, does that mean I can’t classify as one?
Let me help you out and make it simple............You are BLACK
Yes, you are black
Your race is coloured and your culture would be the one you choose cause in other words your still mixed even if your one parent is black.
@@myvlog5112😂😂😂 Is coloured a race?? 😂😂
@@imhotep1613 Yeah, is black s race😅🤣🤣🤣🤣
To understand this...People must start reading the comments....the White Domkoppe has got a long way to go...you don't shake off 350years of white dominance in 30years....A big problem about many issues in SA is people lost their sence of thinking rationally...
Apartheid robbed black people of their identity...who they are...Fathers were removed from their families...Son and daughters lost who they are...lost self love ...lost self esteem...we need God..
Oh wow true, never looked at it this way haaz. Mmmmmhhh
She speaks of the young people music coming from Colored SA , the music is steep
in Black American Hip Hop culture. Not the SA Colored culture
Proud of you ladies.
I LOVE THESE TWO WOMEN. I wish they could debate the celebrity wannabe Samantha Jansen and put her in her place. She ridicules coloured people and throws our people under the bus to appease Pan Africanist afrocentric black supremacists and coloured hating black people. Some, if not most of us are mixed with blackness so blackness is very much a part of our family tree. That DOES NOT MEAN that we have to one drop rule ourselves out of existence and deny the fullness of our identity. I am COLOURED AND PROUD to be. Samantha Jansen wants to become a celebrity off of trashing our people. These 2 women give me hope for the future of COLOURED PEOPLE. Their VOICES NEED TO BE ELEVATED.
i need this book
Why White South Africans appear less preoccupied with 'identity' and self-segregation within their 'white' community ? While divisions do exist among them, these divisions do not seem to occupy as much attention as the divisions within the Black community.
This extended commentary respectfully challenges the narrative presented by the authors. The argument is flawed on so many levels. I shall limit myself to specific ways in which the authors are effectively defending colonial identity to safeguard the emotions and anxieties of white South Africa.
Before delving deeper, let's acknowledge Stephen Groote's enthusiasm for this discussion, perhaps more fitting for another occasion, but still worthy of recognition and appreciation for his contributions.
The celebration of diverse ethnic identities, like Zulu, Xhosa, Tswana, and the category of "Coloured," should be understood as deeply rooted in colonial constructs. Historically, the territories now called Africa lacked a pre-existing "Nation"; instead, they were inhabited by diverse communities. The notion of 'nations' is a modern construct tied to European capitalist expansion, both within and beyond Europe. Early European accounts consistently labeled those in African lands as non-white and, in many cases, non-human. Consequently, Africa was perceived as universally Black, subjected to a gaze often referred to as the White gaze, which compartmentalized its inhabitants. With the advent of slavery and colonialism, Africa was formally incorporated into Europe's dominion, a condition that persists in various forms today.
To fully grasp the enduring influence of settler colonial power, it's essential to consider the regionalization of Blackness, particularly in the South African context. To do this, we must briefly delve into the historical roots of identity in SOuth Africa. Identity, as we know it today, traces its origins back to the early era of settler colonialism by British and Dutch, German, and French immigrants collectively known as Afrikaners. Essentially, there was no South Africa prior to the onset of settler colonialism; these lands were predominantly inhabited by people seen through the White gaze as non-white or Black. These European groups vied for control over both people and lands, stratifying them based on identity, thus giving rise to various labels and so-called "ethnic" identities.
In 1910, they officially established SOuth Africa as a "nation-state," notably excluding Black participation. For instance, one of the key figures in shaping the South African identity, Jan Smuts, in letters to his colleagues before and after the 1910 union, was primarily concerned with the 'Native,' a euphemism for Black individuals. Subsequently, methods were developed to distinguish Black people based on the regions they inhabited. Opportunistic figures like Mr. Buthelezi later claimed demarcated regions like “Kwazulu-Natal” as “Zulu” homelands, relinquishing the broader claim to Blackness in favor of tribal identities. This maneuver helped maintain power while fragmenting the discourse of Blackness and the struggle for place and belonging. Buthelezi accomplished this, and to this day, there are Zulu-speaking South Africans who primarily identify as Zulus (rather than Zulu-speaking individuals), relegating their Blackness to a secondary status.
Interestingly; Globally, these individuals predominantly identify as Black first. It is at this level that I believe by proclaiming identity outside of Black and simply use Black as a so called "political identity" is particularly telling in SOuth Africa. This cannot be dissociated from the settler colonial present of SOuth Africa. In my view, the label "Coloured" including all other so called "ethnic" identities (outside of European) is applied in South Africa to manage the anxieties of white South Africans concerning potential loss of claims to South Africa and identity.
It is disheartening to witness colleagues staunchly upholding a problematic concept of identity. For instance, they say; Trevor Noah is often referred to as "Coloured" due to his mixed racial heritage - and they reject Trevor's identity as coloured. This is confusing. Ideally, globally, the meaning of coloured is mix-ed. Trevor could then say he is politically Black - but either way, Trevor is in fact coloured. If coloured then is simply culture - why should it be the major identifying feature before one's Blackness. Think about Bishop Alan Boesak - although considered Coloured, the Bishop, in fact is Black. He identifies as Black.
Again, the point here is; Engaging in a culture labelled as "Coloured" may involve practicing certain cultural traditions, but it should not obscure one's fundamental identity, which remains Black. This situation highlights an invented interpretation of "Coloured" in South Africa, which can lead to confusion. By historicizing this concept and relying on writings that safeguard certain emotions and interests, we risk perpetuating divided Black unity in the face of neo-colonialism.
The two writers frequently draw comparisons between the Zulu identity and the need to defend the Coloured identity. However, this argument lacks the historical nuance that demands not just reading, but critical, self-reflective reading, as mentioned earlier. The term "Coloured" has historically been employed to differentiate Blackness, much like the label "Zulu." Nevertheless, it's imperative to acknowledge that there is no singular entity known as "Zulu"; instead, there are various Zulu-speaking communities. While categorizing Blackness can provide informative insights, it also perpetuates division, aligning with settler colonial logic. Therefore, it is crucial to reject the label "Coloured" and reaffirm Blackness. Some individuals may use "Coloured" to avoid the term "Khoi," which is sometimes seen as derogatory. Similarly, some "Coloured" people who are, in fact, "Khoi" sometimes reject that label, highlighting the complexity of identity within South Africa.
The concept of being "politically Black" and referencing Steve Biko is often invoked but not always deeply understood. Sometimes, it is used to avoid the label "Black" as if it's an undesired identity. However, Steve Biko never called for the provincialization of Blackness in South Africa. In fact, Biko commented on the attitudes of certain "Coloured" and Indian comrades who were hesitant to fully embrace Black identity. A recommended read is Mabogo More's book "Biko: Philosophy, Identity, and Liberation," which delves into Biko's less-quoted writings about the debates surrounding Black identity among the oppressed.
One thing that becomes evident here is a resistance to embracing Blackness as an identity and a problematic leaning on being "politically Black." This is an avoidance of Blackness and an attempt to further fragment Blackness.
It's worth noting that any attempts to fragment Blackness in South Africa, the United States, the United Kingdom, and other places often follow a logic that divides the oppressed based on labels and labeling methods that overlook historical context. Consider, for instance, the group commonly referred to as "Khoi," who are now increasingly viewed as "First Nation." This discourse seems to replicate settler colonial histories from the Americas and Australia, where indigenous populations were subjected to genocide. What it suggests effectively is that; SA is, in fact, a 'nation-state' - even a State. It suggests that South Africa (new colony) is, in fact, outside of Africa. It divides Blacks according to "Nguni" "Khoi," etc. - for the fun and comfort of the settlers. They lie to themselves that some came from up North and 'found' "others" down south - to confuse all of us. Africans had been criss-crossing the continent for thousands of years. No. Africa is historically a Black women's world - it has always been. It has produced different shades of Black that were classified by the divisive onlooker whose intentions were to "stay" and occupy the Place. The idea of "First nation" is deeply problematic and extremely colonial and uncritical. We must read the history, including the archaeological and anthropological work about 'Africa,' with a serious critical lens. Why is it that we never hear about the different shades of Europeans? We know about the Jewish people and how they were racialized - but we never hear much about the different shades of Europeans, especially the so-called "First nations" - I wonder why.
To address the initial question of why white South Africans do not seem preoccupied with creating separate identities, one must consider that, for the maintenance of the settler colonial context in Africa, this notion of "nobody's land" must persist. This land, which was subject to slavery and colonialism, needs to remain undefined. Self-identifying as "Coloured" isn't inherently problematic; however, advocating that this culture should be one's primary identity as "Coloured" before acknowledging one's Blackness suggests a reluctance to embrace one's true identity, which is Black. The authors' logic appears to echo the older concept of fetishizing Blackness, as opposed to recognizing the diverse cultural elements within the Black identity. It's crucial to place "Coloured" within the broader context of cultural richness. Some individuals may be culturally "Coloured" while still identifying as Black. This distinction, while seemingly similar to the authors' argument, underscores a shift away from provincializing Blackness within the South African context. Such provincialization caters to white anxieties and settler colonialism, ultimately hindering the progress of Black people.
Well said
They do in their corners. Hence we have orania, it's not for all white people. Russian is another example.
Bro, do you have a Substack? I would love to read your writings on a regular basis.
Im proudly coloured,,,i dont care how many times this "race " thing is debated,its just people's opinions anyway!!!
Leave people alone,,,this has been debated to death and nothing has changed!!
Would you say that you are an “African”?
The problem is that many people do not know the definition of culture, ethnicity, race and sozialisation.
@@imeldamayer-taylor2783 You didn't answer the previous question.
WOULD YOU CALL YOURSELF AFRICAN ??
😂
By the way , is Coloured a race ? If it's a race I guess tour white masters created it because Before Europeans invaded Africa THERE WAS NO SUCH A THING AS COLOURED
The problem people don’t understand is that race is construct meaning it can be defined in many ways.
@@HeyJuuude-05 everyone born on the continent is African
Glad that they say they are politically Black because they are just Black people really. The Apartheid system couldn't afford to have all Black people working together so they found a way to create divisions. The scales are starting to fall off the eyes of the "Coloured" Blacks in South Africa finally❤
To me, the word colored in the South African context means a black African tribe, just like Xhosa, Sotho, Zulu, and coloured.
Yes!!!!! thats also how I see it. Because our Identities were stripped and today we are left with the one we created
Mixed race that's for sure
Fact is it was created because they wanted us 2 forget or leave behind xhosa zulu khosan venda and so on and become like them and thr customs that was the whole intent thats what the managed to do with the americans lets not get it twisted you are your fathers child at the end and most of us gave up on that because we became opressed thats why alot of black people also changed thr last names to fit in because our cultures were not accepted by our oppressors
You are wise my brother❤
All over the world people will try to find away not to identified as Black , as if saying call me anything as Black
Black is an American identity and typical Americans always trying to shove their bs down the rest of the world's throat.
Black or colored. We never named ourselves. This is just word play . Its a colonial joke.its based on interacial relationships not culture.Theres mixed children worldwide with all soughts of cultures infused because of it but its not complicated.
Why don’t coloured people speak Khoi?
as part of the slavery process, we were denied the right to speak our original languages. This was enforced by the ripping out of teeth with pliers , or cutting off of tongues, or simply whippings.
@@ronaldwiley8357 “We don’t speak Khoi because it beaten out of us.”
Or
“We speak Afrikaans because it was beaten into us.”
Allow me to help out. I am 73 yrs and speak afrikaans till now. My grandfather died in 1951 at the age 71 and spoke Afrikaans. My great grandmother who died in 1941 at the age 84 spoke Afrikaans like "you and I" (direct words of My grandfather's brother Oompie Gert). This means that Afrikaans has been part of my family since 1857. I am of the opinion that we as a family or community spoke Afrikaans before whites who, I think made it a scientific language with Germanic and Anglo Saxon grammar derivitaves and inclinations. It was regarded as the lingua franca of the workers in the house holds of the Dutch and English in order not to be understood at times. Secondly, afrikaans could have been the "funny galore" of Dutch English East Asian Khoisan and San languages. There you have it. Some food for thought 🤔. I am proudly Coloured.
Oh yes I am a 6th generation Coerecius or Coreejes from Antonio Coreejes and Susanna Rosetta De la Port in 1802.
@@winstoncoerecius Thank you for sharing. You should start a TH-cam channel chronicling your life. I’d love to hear more about what it means to be coloured.
Follow up question: What race were the Khoi-san?
I love the story the ladies bring home about our people, the coloured people. We are infact Afrikanders and as always the Afrikaners took uit the "d" and stole the word and calling of our people. Afrikanders is a collective word, inclusive of all the indigenous people, griekwa, misbieker, hottentot, nana, boesman and many others. Ons is aangename mense. Ons hoef ons nie te verduidelik nie.
What about African Creole term. ?
I’d rather be called ‘Creole’ than ‘Coloured’
Creole is the french word for coloured
whats da difference between coloured and mix race? my child doesn't identify herself self coloured...intresting!!
Cos it's about a culture..Trevor Noah is not coloured.
@@PatrickJacobs-u1fTrevor Noah's father is Swiss , then Trevor is a Swiss man, Trevor's kids will be Swiss..how he looks...who he grew up with ...what language he speaks ...is not who he is..
@@sengamemela3720his fathers nationality is Swiss but his ethno-cultural background is German to be exact. Trevor Noah is raised in a Xhosa household. There are many people who are raised in a single mother households and identify with the ethnic background of their mothers because that’s the culture they know… some like Trevor even carry their mother’s surname. These things are social constructs so they can be as complex or as simple as you want to make them.
@LM-rg9lj Identity is about how you feel and acceptance of the in-group. Bernie Mcathy for example is coloured but Pearl Thusi is not. In biological terms all human beings are of the same species. It’s a human race, there is no mixing of races.
@@sengamemela3720That's not how things done in Xhosa culture darling, hes mixed and parents never got married that's why he follows Xhosa culture and customers. He must follow mothers Culture since parents never got married. He had to use dad's surname under the circumstances of Apartheid otherwise he'd be using mom's surname
I am good on all the false labels Europeans put on African. I am not black or colored, I am African my ethnic groups Amhara and Igbo. My nationality is USA citizen.
But who is discussing you tho?
Identity crisis is real shame
I know some who wouldn't like to be called black.
But we not black
@@lilianhaggland2031 rather say, I am not black.
@@lilianhaggland2031😂😂who even care that you are not black.
Before your European ancestors invaded Africa ,we Indigenous african were all just africans. There was no such a mess as coloured .
You guys are a manufacturered product made by Europeans
and I know many who would not like to be called White, Indian or Asian.
@@lilianhaggland2031 but some say that they are black.
If it ain't one thing it's a nother it a crazy crazy world that's why I love dimples listen to the lirycs
IF AFRICAN MEN HAD PROTECTED THEIR WOMEN FROM THE SETTLERS , WE WOULDNT BE HAVING THIS COLOURED CONVERSATION.
They did. That's why SA is only 7% white instead of 97%. And of course there were casualties.
We r here now cannot be sent back wow
@@fatimakay9488If black supremacism becomes a dangerous problem, come to Latin America ❤
Whoever trying to define a coloured in South Africa is most certainly a foreigner. The NP Party new coloured people. Likewise the ANC. Did this people in this country suddenly contract dementia over night. Let's ask the question who is the bantu people and where did they come from?
How about we are African?
Well said, coloured people must not detach themselves from blacks, for they have black heritage
I am a white African, born in Zambia. 100 000 years ago my ancestors migrated from south Africa up Africa, into Europe and finally north Europe. When they started their nomadic migration they where the colour of the khoi people of 🇿🇦. As they progressed north to the equator the became darker and their bodies changed to compensate for various reasons. As they headed further north their skin became pale until they got to northern Europe where not only were they white, but they had more hair to keep them warm, due to the cold. If my white family live in Africa for 100 000 years, they will be black. If a black mans family live in northern Europe for 100 000 years they will be white and hairy. That's the only difference between you and I.
There is also the Neanderthal admixture that introduced the white skin genes to white people. Not by just traveling from south to north.
U don't wanna speak Zulu, they don't wanna speak khoi khoi or Xhosa etc. ..
There are plenty of coloureds who speak those languages. You don't know any because the world does not revolve around you.
Let them be
I don't appreciate the word "coloured" either.. it's an apartheid terminology 😞
So is black
So is black.
@@caylya7869😂😂Black is not. It's just a color as you see it. "Coloured", not so
The people who defend the coloured tag did not fight for freedom The original name of coloureds are Oorlams Afrikaners
keep your bigotry to yourself, "Oorlams" means lazy/stupid.
Can we work hard on understating ourselves,before you go and try to understand someone else.
This ones are confused yaz
😮😮confused. But you deny us the agency to define who we want to identify as.
STREET NAMES ARE CHANGED,LETS ALL SAs CALL EACH OTHER, i.e. GAZI,DIAMOND,MPINJI, ETC,BUDDY..
Misconception.
Or did culture become classification? Also, Why do they consider themselves "politically Black", when the ANC is discriminating against them with AA & BEE?
When it suits them
They never want to claim being black, unless it suits them. I could never mistake them for non-black
If our stuggles are categorised, and our race is separated we can't claim where we see fit
If one speaks of their original race(khoisan), why not reclaim it
Why aren't Coloureds referred to as White or Asian?
because we are African.
Because they are usually just Black people who don't want to identify as Black.
The term black is a social construct status meaning nonexistent or dead under the black codes color of law(Civility Mortuus)and has no legal standing. Black is a color not a race or ethnicity or nationality.
(Matt 24:3,14,42,44; Rev 7:9,10)
Aaaaag this is boring, This is just a BOOK selling Campaign
Blackness is a sign of oppression. 😂 ohh my skin colour, how did we get here?
There is ni race called coloured this us funny this people are black just lighter skin
We coloured
Coloured people are mixed and not every coloured has black inside of them.
Coloured people are mixed and not every coloured has black inside of them.
They say they are khoisan, and different from mixed.
How do I see black to the ambiguous people with an accent? (question; do khoisan sound black when they speak English? Sounds like it)
@@tech_tm3874There is no sounding black. Khoisan are actually have vastly different experiences from black people. Blackness is a construct based on skin color which is why Khoisan with lighter skin when discovered by colonist weren’t considered such, also there facial features as well. That’s why Khoisan aren’t viewed as such because of history of not really having that label.
octoroon
On this earth is black and white. ALthough these colours dont exactly refer to human beings.What is it with red indians? I Will never like to be called a coloured.If I am not white then l am black I will rather
accept my self to be called black. IF one of my parent is white another one black then I am a mixed child it is apity I belong to both, Black and awhite .Where am l now going to be put , by none Whites or none Blacks?. lwill choose to be called aSouthAfrican. (never mind which direction but just look where l was born.. THe country where l was born is SouthAfrica and l am a SouthAfrican. l would belong to all the traditions of the country .. OFCOURSE l have my name if you want to call me.
Which part of your anatomy is black or white? When you did colours in nursery and primary school does it compute? When people of different skin tones wear nude colours, what colours are they wearing? Interesting never black or white.
The coloureds on Cape town are ... omg😂😂😂😂
Stop messing with colonial identity.
I am a colored from Swaziland, we are such a beautiful, diverse culture, our white faces, straight noses, or flat and wiry hair.
We are not complaining, can the media not make a story out of this for clicks
Every coloured knows that not all coloured people looks the same. With that comment alone your not one.
Do they eat birds? I mean crows,sorry budgies, sorry i mean chicken, i mean ostrich............?
You are what you are!!!!
What is coloured 😅
Always worried about the past and being oppressed we will never move forward.