This is true. But the thing about "forgiveness" is that its for you more than it is for the other person. it sets the forgiver free from the burden of hate...the forgiven person has different path to walk....they need more then to be forgiven in order to deal with their demons.
I'm watching this for the first time in 2024, and there couldn't be a better time for this to pop up on my recommendations. Fast forward to 10 years later, and our country is deteriorating. I really do pray that my generation is able to make a change for the better. There is never a day that goes by where I do not stop praying for South Africa I'm really hoping that this coming election will bring about improvement and peace among it's people 🙏🏾 God bless this country ❤
Mime was what about the terrorizing, torture, and murder targeting of white farmers to the response "blacks are more likely to suffer violence and incarceration. Wth is that!?? One is very INTENTIONAL hence "targeting" and is very obvious hatred and purely SYSTEMATIC RACISM (truthfully) the other is a result of the culture and crime within their own ranks. The two couldn't be further apart! And on the side of TRUE systemic racism, the very PRESIDENT sings about killing the bores/WHITES!
Reminds me (a white American) of those white Americans who say stuff like, "Where's our 'thank you' for abolishing slavery?" or, "We outlawed Jim Crow".
Watching this for the first time today in 2023. It’s a disappointing that as a young person, I had the idea that this kind of conversation wasn’t possible. But it happened, just a few years ago. They need to do this again.
This was NINE YEARS AGO nearly 10 not "a few". Trust me it is no better there by ANY means than in America! It is all an agenda to divide and these ideas are all put in their minds just like "systemic racism" in America. These are all built on lies or straight up lies period put out for the agenda of ultimate divide and conquer. Do you not notice the same words being used there as in America??? If not "racism/slavery" beingnused they use "systemic violence" which was caused by the TRIBES FIGHTING INE ANOTHER and the problem SIN...laziness, bitterness, covetousness! And the people use it to steel and take what doesn't belong to them in a lawful country. They begin with with small "debates" backed with known lies in order to grow bigger into pure hatred.
This is a African nation PERIOD! The discussion needs to start there. The "Rainbow Nation" is NOT anthropological. The Africans were in Africa long BEFORE the arrival of eurocoids to the planet. Notwithstanding, according to Dr. Johannes Krauss a biochemist from Germany... "100% of EHGs had black skin and blue eyes and seem to be the HERC2 gene deletion and the white phenotype is only about 4,000 years old..." In other words the first humans in Europe itself were from Africa proper and "they had black skin and blue eyes" long BEFORE the arrival of Europeans to the planet as we know them today. Finally, the African environment favored darker pigment specifically as a response to the African Sun's ultraviolet radiation. In the final analysis, it what your DNA says who you are not skin color. REVIEW: African Ancestry Testing Corporation Africanancestey.com REVIEW: CARTA "Human DNA and Evolution of Ancient European History" by Dr. Johannes Krauss (Biochemistry) Max Plank Institute of Germany. th-cam.com/video/JTY9K1Q_Sbg/w-d-xo.html REVIEW: "The Genetic Differences between Europeans Explained" by Dr. Johannes Krauss (Biochemistry) Max Plank Institute of Germany th-cam.com/video/B_p8pzGTXc4/w-d-xo.html
Black people are not native to South Africa the Zulus and Xhosa are BANTU TRIBES from west Africa who colonised and committed genocide against the khoisan and the white Dutch came to South Africa first.
Most Europeans here in South Africa never saw the door of a college or a university, yet they are doing well economically. Meanwhile we have so many African graduates, who never saw the door of a company. Never employed
So, that let's you know that just because you have a degree doesn't mean that you can support yourself. You must find your God-given gift 🎁. I possess no medical degree but have worked in the USA dialysis medical industry for over 25 years, and all of my research is sealed. Why won't they let me share my knowledge with the world?
@@RSVPrr After the Anglo-Boer war they had absolutely nothing left. Their farms and homes were burnt down, families killed, crops destroyed and families killed in the camps, despite that they succeeded, there was no generational wealth, just hard work and discipline.
They get taught from a young age to work hard, manage your money wisely and contribute to the community. I taught at black and white schools. In black schools the parents mostly don't attend meetings regarding their children's educational difficulties. Most most parents go to see the teacher if the student has difficulties learning. They also are likely to help with school fundraising. I wish all groups to do well and grow together.
Am a Namibian, and as Namibian we were colonized by south africa apartheid from 1915 to1990..in Namibia we have coloured people as well but here they are called Basters Basters/Coloureds here we just see them as another tribe.. Basters are Basters but they don't exclude themselves to be a certain group people secluding themselves... This video have taught me something about south africa culture... Yes white people here exclude themselves from us.. But Basters they see themselves as black people. The only way we can change racism/ a narrative of racism is that white people especially older ones should bare in their minds the world is changing empires comes and go.. Accept each other black-and-white you will never lose your culture if you accept the facts..
As a Afro 🇬🇾🇱🇨Caribbean American I love everything about this debate. Glad to see my brother and sister in Africa are speaking up for their rights. ✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾❤
@Malika Byron, my sister, that's how I identify as well. Afro Caribbean American. My husband, who's from Nigeria 🇳🇬 thinks am creating problems on the census every time. I thought I was the only one ooo.
The only thing that can fix black people around the globe that's facing Racism. Black people must first understand what is White Supremacy and how does it work. Until we learn and understand White Supremacy, everything we know about racism will confuse us. The White South Afrikaners stolen the black people land, properties and countries resources, instead of giving back what they stolen. They have to create three Societies to fight against black South Africans. It's sad for me to see black people in South Africa, called themselves Coloured People, because of our Ancestors been raped by Colonizers and a Political Construct to have the Coloured people on their side against black South Africans. Coloured People, you have mixes of Colonizers blood, but you are still black people, with lighter shades of blackness. This a trick they used in the United States of America.
This video showed me that the black men in the room were more concerned with white acceptance and interracial relationships rather than black equality. I appreciated the white people honestly admitting that they want to keep their race pure and that obviously bothered the black men in the room.
It's because you are so focused on 'whites' that you aren't paying attention to yourselves. Whites just carry on, and make sure they educate our children come hell or high water, and make sure they are professionally okay. More of their energy goes into the right places. Poor families do not have access to the internet nor to good education. And since most poor families were black to start in 1994 the demographics remain the same. But there are plenty more middle class black people than there are white people. That's progress. It's just the percentages that are skewed. If 75% of whites are middle class then that's only 3.5 million people. You can't fix the poverty or the demographic disparity by 'solving' white people.
@@Sumarai21 Add to the conversation and I'll consider hearing you out. But if you throw unintelligible insults, then I'll just assume you are trolling - and not care 👋
You're falling for the good cop bad cop shitt. That mlungu stated the obvious and didn't offer any solutions. Now ya'll think he's one of the "good ones"
I remember I was a school kid and I used to love watching this show on SABC 2. Lol... it's funny I had already decided my career as a kid and didn't even realize.
We cannot "forget" our histories of oppression and say to "move on" until all of our children have the same starting point in society regardless of their skin colour
That’s crazy. Why would it take only a couple of generations to catch up to a civilization that is advanced by a couple thousand years? Forget history? I think we need to Truly know our history, the entire stretching story of it - instead of looking at specific sections, out of context, for political expediency
Black belive whites are rich and they give them opportunity to them to use them they feel sorry and try to create work for black s which they benefit and it becomes an issue I am making money for him but he give me little because you don't have an ideas
There's a difference between the South Africans that is their home that is their native home that has been stolen from him their identity their culture their way of life they're living their land their structure their dignity has been stolen from them because they white people have used classism colorism and racism to depict how they are treating people that are native to South Africa and now you have a full fledge community of people that are not native people who have stolen land and culture who wants the right to be called africanos who want the right to call South Africa their home and it's not fair and the worst part of South Africa'spainful past and history is apartheid and how much destruction and how much force and how much control they had taken over and what they had done to the people that were native to this country and it is just despicable I don't know if anybody watch serafina but serafina was a good catch you get a big idea and a broad idea of what happened to children young African children were tortured beat and some of them even murdered it was awful and it still goes on to this day and South Africa you are not allowed at certain areas unless you have a pass sort of like antebellum slavery aware you got a pass from your owner and if you do not have a pass you are jailed or abused it is just another violent way that proves that Europeans have use colorismracism socialism and they have used these things against people in their native place and they have controlled so much of the thinking of these people these people were forced to learn how to bow down to white people they are not allowed to do certain things white people are to be served before their own people it is just a disgusting way of life and it still goes on to this day white people there also stand on privilege where they are allowed to do whatever whenever two blacks at any given time and it's disgusting the fight against apartheid I remember back in 86 I was just a little girl but I remember my uncle who was in the service who lived in Germany and England talking about it I didn't understand what a part that was until I got older and I understand the pain that the South African School through and it's awful
@@KT-yx1vv Incorrect, unless you want of course apartheid, that might infact be what people like you want. Apartheid brings division, division brings animosity, animosity brings violence. The indigenous cant afford to have a culture war with with mainstream society...
Im Kenyan and after watching this debate im so much in pain. South Africa has a lot of work to do to attain healing and reconcilliation. That boer shocked me.
why does every YT person need to apologize? most YT people have no power any anyone black nor do they actively do anything to harm them..its only the ones in power and with wealth...
Waouw!!!!! What a debate!!! Im stunned!!! I understand now...why my guy from Cape Town...told me that South Africa still has a long way 2 go...when it comes to race relations... As a Brasileiro🇧🇷 myself...I can say that we have our fair share of racism in Brasil...but not as harsh as what SA is still facing!!! I mean I still can't believe what "The Burg White man" said...on stage...unreal... Anyway praying that the situation will get better...
I'm not from South Africa but I truly enjoy this type of debate where people from different races who share the same country are given opportunity to express themselves on issues facing their country. This is the best moment !
Only thing that is going to work is for all people to come to a great meeting place in the world of the fact that we are not separated by race for the fact that we are ONE RACE created but we have different in pigment by the area that we have inhabited on the world. Our environment has been the only thing that has made us different in appearance. It has to change or we will not survive with hate and bigotry for each other!!!
I wish we have such debates in my country Sierra Leone to talk about the real reasons towards the backwardness of our country. One love to South Africa and Africa as a whole
Simple... keep your culture, just know the land belongs to the nations. Being different isn't the problem, poverty and exclusion from economic equality is.
Listen you black South African I just want to get something off my chest. I am Zimbabwean and you black South Africans always sugar coat your racist bull shit mentality. Lets talk about xenophobia and how you people brutally murder Black Zimbabweans? I want a answer for that ASAP!
@Chi Oke If you say that I have inherited colonization from my ancestors you have a low IQ, Well anyway then you have inherited slavery from your ancestors if I'm a colonizer because of my ancestors were then you are a slave because your ancestors. Now that's the logic we talking about here you ignorant idiot, so it boils down to this, I'm a colonizer and you are a SLAVE.
Am from Kenya and i really do not know how i got here.... anyway, am here. I did not know South Africa was this divide. I really hope that such effort to bring reconciliation will bring exactly that.
The blacks have the power in South Africa. Since that, all minorities (whites,indians,coloureds, khoi, etc.) face discrimination against them, getting jobs for example. OF COURSE there is racism. The racism by the blacks against all others, especially whites.
South Africa is a fractured mirror A paradox of schizophrenic selves Who do not talk to one another Who fear each other......I felt that Lebo, I felt that.
This is one of d most interesting and emotional Debate that I have seen for a very long time I personally believe if people of different race an culture can unite d World would be a better place for us all.
@@oompaloompa3188 as everyone knows our people thats such a crazy generalization. I personally give away 100,000 a year to the less fortunate. i work 100 hours weeks. But I get your point, I'm just saying that the original south africans have been discriminated against and obviously slaughtered in the past (of course all past history has been full of slaughtering etc.) I'm not justifying the crimes of the colonists (started by the elite back then]
I think a good discussion would be if ALL South Africans from all races sit down. And each person just tells their story, with no disruption. Just their life story. So we can hear what all of us went through, our backstories, our ways of dealing with the life situations we are and were in... Just listen to each other. We will never understand where each culture gets their viewpoints if we don't really open our ears and hear everyone's stories. We have so much prejudices about each other. Because we don't actually understand each other. I know this debate was many years ago. But let's get a storytelling going. I think it would be an amazing and eye opening experience. I learned a lot by actually sitting down with other cultures.
Nothing good comes from talking about race. It just reinforces race as a concept, which creates racism and racial division. How you remedy race is you stop talking about it and acknowledging it. Stop identifying yourself and others by their race.
@@Mowizzy1 Please don't try fight racism with racist slurs. She is actually right-leaning or very conservative. Which is tied to the Big Five personality model. It's not because of the colour of her skin. There are plenty of left and right leaning people of all races.
@@broadcastmadnesss I'm happy with that. As long as you don't say she is privileged and /or ignorant because of her skin tone. She might be privileged due to her class, or due to other factors. But not because she is white. That's the core of my message.
Apart from KTV and Supersport this Debate has been a very good forum for so many South Africans to view the beauty of their nation. It has been a great academic TV experience, SA needs more of such programmes on all Television Networks out there
Lowen Herz black people here in America get all types of privileges that no other race gets.. they even have their own tv channels.. they have NAACP, affirmative action and plenty of other programs that give blacks people a 1 up in society.. if anything black people have more privilege than any other race in America..
Dakota Clarke just an FYI, for their first few decades of existence all of the tv networks were white. Affirmative action has benefited white women primarily. The only reason there are black media organizations is because there is a need. Obviously you’re not from the USA.
I highly respect and admire the way the speaker “Khaya Dlanga” handled all situations which were ‘potentially offensive’ with a smile throughout the whole show. That’s the best way to carry out a constructive discussion, having a non-emotional mindset.💯
@faith umuk I was surprised someone like her would say that in all places Subsaharan Africa. I mean isn't there an Indian community in SA? Kind of to say "I'm not here as an Indian". Sounds slightly Rachel Dolezalish to me
The conversation is not long enough to have an impact, but it is a start. I would love more. Eyes are still glued, mouth is sewed together ears are plugged may God please have mercy Help us all .
I really wish the aliens invade us, because then the the humans would realize the importance of togetherness. All our hearts will beat for each other at least? for sometime.
That wouldn't fix anything. Then it's an "Us vs Them" mentality all over again. District 9 explores that notion because the prawns are subjugated by everyone else in the country, even though the loophole in the story is that everyone then knows something that should have completely changed everything - that we are not alone in the universe - but conveniently forgets it to advance the plot. When people can accept others for who they are, accept that everyone's reality is different, that their life experiences are what shape them, that centuries of rule in a particular fashion have changed ingrained mindsets over hundreds of generations, then we can start practicing real tolerance. Otherwise, uniting the planet through a common enemy doesn't fix the root cause of the issue. The enemy of my enemy is my friend still leaves people as enemies when the external threat is diminished or defeated.
I am 64 years old, read "Cry The Beloved Country" when I was 13, and lived through the end of "Jim Crow" segregation laws in the Southern United States, and the attempt to end "De Facto" segregation is large non Southern Cities. I'm also White. Until white people take a hard look at our centuries of racism that is deeply embedded in our culture and religion. Not much will chafe. And in all fairness, most people have difficulty with that sort of change after age 30, sometimes 20. South Africa has in immense amount of pain over race. Too many people on both sides of the equation hang on to that pain, and use it as a shield. And those who have power, are loathe tl give it up. I agree with Desmond Tutu, whites in South Africa are very lucky. But the larger issue that the whole country needs to deal with is moving from a mostly agricultural nation, that needs cheap labor, to an industrial and technological nation that is much more prosperous and can create jobs for more of it's people. It took Korea 40 years to move from a third world country to the powerhouse that it is today. You can do it too, but you have to stop the blame game (white folks) and accept that your black neighbors are God's children and deserving of a full measure of dignity, respect and INCOME. The United States is much closer to equality, mostly because the younger generation, people under 30, are much more aware of the current class warfare that is going on, and that if affects all races equally. It's taken 3 generations, but it's happened. Keep up the dialogue, let the angry white people march in the streets, their children will think they are crazy, their grandchildren will wonder what planet they were on. God save all of us from our own ignorance, fear and hatred.
I agree with you Edward however racism is so deeply inbeded in South Africa, In young black people who were not even there during the aparthied era and white people who were taught that black people are violent and ignorant. Being a South African and currently living in a specific area that has two towns very near each other but very very different I have little hope left. Some white afrikaans people are teaching their kids racism at a young age, the first town is white upperclass and benefiting greatly from Tourism, giving black people that have a deep history in this area only demoralizing jobs with low wage. Some of the older black people are very submissive and white children have been seen to discriminate them in front of their parents. They are producing a new generation of a racist society. People like this and Sunette the women from this video make it very hard moving forward because they still believe they should be superior and that their problems are of greater importance so they instill this into their kids. 50 % of the newer white generation are full on racist and arrogant, a quarter recognize in themselves some racist beliefs and are trying to change slowly(you have to give them props for this given the belief systems they grew up with) but find it increasingly difficult when racial tension arise from their white friends and relatives and the rest are mostly English and are living the South African rainbow nation dream with some privileged black people.
The Africans are 81% of the country. Coloureds and Asians ( from India) have some of the wealth. Whites have a large amount of the corporations. The Blacks have the Parliament since 1994!
I am watching this in awe. I honestly am broken that this is reality. being from america and going through racism and to see in SOUTH AFRICA that they cant or are being told that they have no right to their ancestors land. And for the mixed race to say that the blacks dnt belong when they are part black. that is totally strange to me. And how the whites say that they have rights to the land that their ancestors took from the natives. I hope that one day this will be rectified and the people will heal emotionally and bring it all together. And as for me here i hope for the same because we are still going through the division. Once we as ppl of color understand that no matter how light or dark we are we are still the same in others eyes. Period
THE WHITE MAN SAID.... A BLACK SAID THEY NEED TO KILL WHITES.....AND WHITE MAN COMPLAINED THAT NO ONE REBUKED HIM ALL CALLED IT RACISM.....THIS IS TYPICAL.........I WAS ORDAINED ELDER IN ONE OF THE LARGEST BLACK DENOMINATIONS IN USA AND WE HAD A MEETING IN CHURCH AND BISHOP WAS SPEAKING AND HE SAID.."GO OUT AND KILL WHITEY.." AND NOT ONE BLACK PERSON STOOD UP AND CORRECTED HIM OR APOLOGIZED TO ME.....EXCEPT THE THE BISHOP SAID TO ME " EXCUSE ME REVEREND KING BUT THIS IS AMERICA..."...NOW IF ANY WHITE PREACHER IN MOST WHITE CHURCHES I HAVE BEEN IN EVER SAID GO OUT AND KILL BLACKIE THE WHOLE CHURCH WOULD RISE UP AGAINST THIS KIND OF HATE TALK.........I TOLD A BLACK PASTOR AND ONE OF HIS FOLLOWERS THIS STORY AND THEY BOTH LAUGHED..AS SOME OF YOU BLACK BIGOTS MIGHT THINK IT WAS FUNNY.......BUT I KNOW LOVELY BLACKS THAT WOULD SAY THAT IS TERRIBLE...SO MAKE YOUR CHOICES IF YOU WANT TO BE A BLACK RACIST OR A WHITE RACIST...ME I WANT NONE OF THIS TRASH...BUT IT SEEMS LIKE BLACK RACISM IS ON THE RISE HERE IN USA AS IT IS IN SOUTH AFRICA.
I can remember a time when the church didn't have to say the words, they just used the bible to help pack millions of Black Africans on boats like sardines, ship to the west, die at sea, get tarred and feathered and the rest is history...the meek shall inherit the earth...slaves, servants...justified with the Holy Bible...Bigots have children, and grand, and great and great great grandchildren...in the Name of Jesus!
@Peter September but y'all are black too. This is why it's confusing. Like you are in Africa the land of the blacks and you called or see yourself different from all others. This is how the european beat us and conquer. They mobilize, come together and defeat. But us no matter what country u are from your are still and African born within your tribe. When ppl start to understand this only then can the continent be a power to recon with. Even in Europe they know they european within their respective groups. That's all. And if u dnt see ur self as such and have those who try to connect with u then what is it to do. From my experience i see a lot of coloreds be closer to the dutch travelers who settled there and is claiming it lands but u fight with ppl who are from there and migrated from surrounding countries. San ppl are my ppl as well. Born in America looking at how divided the clans are is very sad. I mean look at is here. Most are trying to come together to mend and repair the damage of many yrs of killing, divided and forced hate towards each other. It's not where we want to be but it's better than it was. And africans born in America are trying to become one unite knowing that we are different and part of many tribes but have one goal. Freedom, self sustaining and not allowing 5hose who wish us harm to control our stories, lives and culture anymore.
Both black women are so incredible, the poet and the activist they are saying things with so much power and accuracy that you are being forced to listen to them with great attention. They have seduced handily the audience by their strenght of mind and broaden Knowledge updated over the time. I am so under the spell that I am being bound to write to pay tribute for their work over Blackness.
Stop with blackness, its all about being humanness. Blks want to be felt heard but that is not the point....All women need to be heard , as there is no women better than the other. BLM movement?? What happen to the monies raised by the movement?? Gone? Just like we have a blk government that continually rapes the people of basic service's. So lets move foward and speak about humans not blk and white.
Starting at 20:16, the professor has given the answer as to why racism exists. Racism has always been about POWER! Groups that oppress other people will CONTINUE to oppress other culture because they are wanting to keep the control they have! If people were not so greedy and power hungry, racism would have been abolished a long time ago.
This is what I have been telling people, the problem of racism stems from the systems that we have in place all over the world. Racists are Racists because of the power and privilege they aquire through these disproportionate systems that we all utilize today. If people of color, especially people of African descent were to focus on creating new systems and getting rid of the old ones, there would be an instantaneous shift in the social and economic power dynamic on the globe. The system is the disease, racism is a symptom.
As a Nigerian i thought we have problem until i saw this, and this might be the same in every africa countries which shows the problem is not about tribe or colour but poverty ,why a nation is doing badly(bad leaders) people try to identify with their tribe and colour.
The main problem isn't bad leaders or poverty, the main problem that we face as a continent that cause all these socio-economic issues is the systems that we have in place, that enable such socio-economic to thrive. The systems that we utilize weren't structured to serve the African people, they were structured to serve foreign interests, that's why there's more capital going out of the continent, than in.
@@mathapelomolete5430 I disagree. ANC has been in power since forever. What's stoping them from changing the system to suit everyone? We cannot keep on blaming the past colonizers for our failures. Our black government is corrupt to the core. That's the real problem
@@fezilenkabinde9087 Do you know how much western nations take from Africa annually? Trillions of dollars Corruption only contributes to $60 billion of the total amount of money smuggled out of the continent. The systems that you are utilizing are not helping you, the African people, to economically grow your continent. Do you know how much America takes out of our country annually? $400 billion, not rands, dollars, and they have been doing this for decades, long before the ANC. We have a $410 billion economy, even half of that amount of net worth is enough to develop the country, yet we don't see this development. You can't blame that on the ANC, no matter how long the ANC has been in power, they would not have been able to smuggle such an immeasurable amount of money out of the country, it's impossible. The systems that you work under weren't structured for you, dozens of economists have literally said this, Moeletsi Mbeki an economist himself, has said that our South African economy, and the broader African economy was structured to serve foreign interests, not African interests. Africa economy was not structured to be industrialist, it's wasn't structured to manufacture, it was structured to be a raw material exporter, that's why you see so much poverty and underdevelopment in the continent. The Continent is literally in a debt trap because of organizations like the WEF. Western nations can pay their debt in their own currency, even though they are trillions of dollars in debt, yet African countries can't do this, they have to pay their debts with their massively devalued currencies into dollars, you know how economically depriving that is? You are asking what is stopping the ANC from changing the system? The ANC doesn't have economic power 🙃 have you ever heard of the sunset clause? This is the same story throughout the continent, africans don't have economic control of their own economies. 85-90% of corporations in the continent are owned by westerners, Asians and Arabs. You could go to Namibia, Zambia, Angola, Zimbabwe etc, and see the exact same thing, you don't have control over your own economy, if you don't have economic power, you don't have any transformational power at all.
"The BIBLE" Greatest Book Ever Written. Last Days Prophesy! Babylon The Great (America) Is Falling. PSALM 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking LIES. All Praises To The Most High and his Son. My question is how did one class gain so much wealth?
I was extremely happy to listen to this for the first time and i would say if it cintinued? Perhaps SA could have gotten somewhere! The debate was intense, illuminative and engaging! It elicited some emotion as expected but nonetheless there was in the end a bit of youthful spark where young people brought in some interesting diverse issues and vied to continue without the elders who still live in the past and nursing their pains! I for instance feel that way because these youths are the ones who will carry the Olympic torch to light their future Let me delve a bit on what I thought was a pivotal moment! There were three or four of them but the one standing out is about politicians deciding what happens on the ground. You see when you have people like malema deciding what his followers need and by the way he is a very divisive individual then you can see what this topic is all about! Is rainbow nation dead! But again on this note I will praise the young guy who see it as limping
@Corey Jones ... but it might be. Collectively they are horrible and the white supremacist systems and institutions they put in place is horrible. I have no love in my heart for their white supremacy. You can talk about individuals and lots of groups of good people, but that is not what is being talked about here.
I don't think Sunnette heard what she said... The lady said, I'm a proud Sotho woman. She didn't say I am a proud black Sotho woman. And Sunnette compares that with saying she is a proud 'White' Afrikaner woman. Do you see how it's all about race for her?
I'm not from Africa, but what I sense is black people are tiring of the "get over it" attitude of whites. There seems to be some healing that needs to be done. But that is difficult to do when the person/persons who are a product of the wound, tell you to get over it.
Yeah because they know that if the shoe was on the other foot and they themselves were on the receiving end of over 3 to 4 hundred years of oppression within their own countries they would be singing the same song, case closed
Healing in this sense means a place without whites. How do I know this? Well we have all the evidence we need right here in American colleges. Places of healing (where whites are not allowed). Blacks are the most racist people on the earth at this moment. Not just against whites either.
![MOBYE - มีใจทำไมไม่จีบ (ASAP) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dCOdz92FU18/mqdefault.jpg)
I feel like we forgive people who didn't ask for forgiveness...
That is so true.
Damn...
This is true. But the thing about "forgiveness" is that its for you more than it is for the other person. it sets the forgiver free from the burden of hate...the forgiven person has different path to walk....they need more then to be forgiven in order to deal with their demons.
PREACHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
Forgiving is ok, but forgetting is not.
I'm watching this for the first time in 2024, and there couldn't be a better time for this to pop up on my recommendations.
Fast forward to 10 years later, and our country is deteriorating.
I really do pray that my generation is able to make a change for the better.
There is never a day that goes by where I do not stop praying for South Africa
I'm really hoping that this coming election will bring about improvement and peace among it's people 🙏🏾
God bless this country ❤
Me too
it wont because blacks will never take any responsibility for their actions. many support killing their own country man as a good thing.
First time listening to this in 2023. The most eye opening comment was we allowed you to vote in 1992. And the response, "it wasnt yours to give."
Mime was what about the terrorizing, torture, and murder targeting of white farmers to the response "blacks are more likely to suffer violence and incarceration.
Wth is that!?? One is very INTENTIONAL hence "targeting" and is very obvious hatred and purely SYSTEMATIC RACISM (truthfully) the other is a result of the culture and crime within their own ranks. The two couldn't be further apart! And on the side of TRUE systemic racism, the very PRESIDENT sings about killing the bores/WHITES!
Apartheid talking.
Reminds me (a white American) of those white Americans who say stuff like, "Where's our 'thank you' for abolishing slavery?" or, "We outlawed Jim Crow".
@@JSmusiqalthinka white people did help.
😅@@JSmusiqalthinka
Making South Africa united is like trying to mix water and oil.
You can preserve your culture without being racist or xenophobic.
No they can't 🤣 look at your history madam that is their culture
@@DNGM-fk5dv it's high time they learn to...
Very true
This goes for all races
Not racist.just LOVE OF SELF.
I want to thank the YT algorithm for showing me this video! I learned a lot about South Africa as an American.
Watching this for the first time today in 2023. It’s a disappointing that as a young person, I had the idea that this kind of conversation wasn’t possible. But it happened, just a few years ago. They need to do this again.
You must live on the moon
This was NINE YEARS AGO nearly 10 not "a few".
Trust me it is no better there by ANY means than in America! It is all an agenda to divide and these ideas are all put in their minds just like "systemic racism" in America. These are all built on lies or straight up lies period put out for the agenda of ultimate divide and conquer. Do you not notice the same words being used there as in America??? If not "racism/slavery" beingnused they use "systemic violence" which was caused by the TRIBES FIGHTING INE ANOTHER and the problem SIN...laziness, bitterness, covetousness! And the people use it to steel and take what doesn't belong to them in a lawful country. They begin with with small "debates" backed with known lies in order to grow bigger into pure hatred.
Yes talking is the way to go about it
Yes it needs to come back
@@godswrath5626 lol
I am a Ghanaian and I really enjoyed this debate. It was very intellectual and peaceful. Long live South Africa, long live Ghana, long live Africa😘
Love that white guy he❤has great heart n mind
I can't believe i am only watching this in 2020. It's so important and i wish there was more of this dialogue.
What is white culture.
That is the question...?
This is a African nation PERIOD! The discussion needs to start there.
The "Rainbow Nation" is NOT anthropological. The Africans were in Africa long BEFORE the arrival of eurocoids to the planet.
Notwithstanding, according to Dr. Johannes Krauss a biochemist from Germany...
"100% of EHGs had black skin and blue eyes and seem to be the HERC2 gene deletion and the white phenotype is only about 4,000 years old..."
In other words the first humans in Europe itself were from Africa proper and "they had black skin and blue eyes" long BEFORE the arrival of Europeans to the planet as we know them today.
Finally, the African environment favored darker pigment specifically as a response to the African Sun's ultraviolet radiation.
In the final analysis, it what your DNA says who you are not skin color.
REVIEW: African Ancestry Testing Corporation
Africanancestey.com
REVIEW: CARTA "Human DNA and Evolution of Ancient European History" by Dr. Johannes Krauss (Biochemistry) Max Plank Institute of Germany.
th-cam.com/video/JTY9K1Q_Sbg/w-d-xo.html
REVIEW: "The Genetic Differences between Europeans Explained" by Dr. Johannes Krauss (Biochemistry) Max Plank Institute of Germany
th-cam.com/video/B_p8pzGTXc4/w-d-xo.html
Black people are not native to South Africa the Zulus and Xhosa are BANTU TRIBES from west Africa who colonised and committed genocide against the khoisan and the white Dutch came to South Africa first.
@phola nzungu I can't believe I'm seeing this now
@@natanyaaberra8735 Who cares! We are all humans and bleed the red blood.
Homeboy in the orange shirt had his hand up damn near the whole show haha
I was starting to feel sorry for him😭😭
Yeah I saw that 😄😆😆😆
He’s probably wearing orange to draw attention after his failed attempt last time. Alas, he failed yet again.
YESSSS.
Ohh poor boy
Most Europeans here in South Africa never saw the door of a college or a university, yet they are doing well economically.
Meanwhile we have so many African graduates, who never saw the door of a company. Never employed
You can't study generational wealth
So, that let's you know that just because you have a degree doesn't mean that you can support yourself. You must find your God-given gift 🎁. I possess no medical degree but have worked in the USA dialysis medical industry for over 25 years, and all of my research is sealed. Why won't they let me share my knowledge with the world?
@@RSVPrr After the Anglo-Boer war they had absolutely nothing left. Their farms and homes were burnt down, families killed, crops destroyed and families killed in the camps, despite that they succeeded, there was no generational wealth, just hard work and discipline.
They get taught from a young age to work hard, manage your money wisely and contribute to the community. I taught at black and white schools. In black schools the parents mostly don't attend meetings regarding their children's educational difficulties. Most most parents go to see the teacher if the student has difficulties learning. They also are likely to help with school fundraising. I wish all groups to do well and grow together.
@@PunkDogCreations stop smoking that cr.ck. stop lying! That's all u Europ.ans do! Lie! And murder and steal!
Am a Namibian, and as Namibian we were colonized by south africa apartheid from 1915 to1990..in Namibia we have coloured people as well but here they are called Basters
Basters/Coloureds here we just see them as another tribe.. Basters are Basters but they don't exclude themselves to be a certain group people secluding themselves... This video have taught me something about south africa culture...
Yes white people here exclude themselves from us.. But Basters they see themselves as black people.
The only way we can change racism/ a narrative of racism is that white people especially older ones should bare in their minds the world is changing empires comes and go.. Accept each other black-and-white you will never lose your culture if you accept the facts..
I'm also Namibian
This UCT lecture is very wise and calm.
Brilliant man
I like his smile
@@TheKing60210❤❤❤
As a Afro 🇬🇾🇱🇨Caribbean American I love everything about this debate. Glad to see my brother and sister in Africa are speaking up for their rights. ✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾❤
🇯🇲❤️✊🏿
@Malika Byron, my sister, that's how I identify as well. Afro Caribbean American. My husband, who's from Nigeria 🇳🇬 thinks am creating problems on the census every time. I thought I was the only one ooo.
Not only they right but our right
💯🇬🇾🙌🏽
I want them to stand with anyone who right and stand against anyone that has wrong ideas!
as a AFRO CARRIBEAN person i'm happy to see tge real AFRICANS BRO AND SIS is rising up hope all of us can ruse up togeher and help each other .
Wow, this was posted 8 years ago and it still resonates in western countries around the world!!!!
How do you speak from love when youve been hated for generations
True
Now the whites Hated for 2 generations in SA, im curious how world Will be in 2080
@@drinkwater9891 dude im 101% White but not stupid and even more not hatefull i hate that apartheid system too
@Nanda Das thanks💪🏻🙏🏻
@Nanda Das yes my man✊🏻✊🏿
Skip to 46.02 this young man hit the nail on the head...One Love Umfowethu.
9yrs after this conversation and all I can think is same shit different year.
This is the best debate I have ever seen. I love this.. Everyone's views can be used to change their country
Can we have monthly sessions of these debates to facilitate healing amongst South Africans, it will be good for our country on all levels.
Not only talk about it but also give solutions.
The only thing that can fix black people around the globe that's facing Racism. Black people must first understand what is White Supremacy and how does it work. Until we learn and understand White Supremacy, everything we know about racism will confuse us. The White South Afrikaners stolen the black people land, properties and countries resources, instead of giving back what they stolen. They have to create three Societies to fight against black South Africans. It's sad for me to see black people in South Africa, called themselves Coloured People, because of our Ancestors been raped by Colonizers and a Political Construct to have the Coloured people on their side against black South Africans. Coloured People, you have mixes of Colonizers blood, but you are still black people, with lighter shades of blackness. This a trick they used in the United States of America.
@@michaelcampbell5817 Powerful
America doesn't even do this anymore
@@michaelcampbell5817 THEY NEED THERE BLACKS AMERICAN BROTHERS..
This video showed me that the black men in the room were more concerned with white acceptance and interracial relationships rather than black equality. I appreciated the white people honestly admitting that they want to keep their race pure and that obviously bothered the black men in the room.
Interesting 🤔
🎯🎯🎯🎯
Bingo! This has always been their downfall. Same in America
So true💯
Cynthia G has spoken about the pathology of black men all over the world for years. And this is proof that they are weak!
I come to this video every time near voting just to remind myself about the truth about SOUTH AFRICA.
10 years later and nothing has CHANGED really!!!
IT'S 5 YEARS since this conversation and THINGS REMAIN THE SAME. Why?
U know how our country operates all about talking but no action
It's because you are so focused on 'whites' that you aren't paying attention to yourselves. Whites just carry on, and make sure they educate our children come hell or high water, and make sure they are professionally okay. More of their energy goes into the right places.
Poor families do not have access to the internet nor to good education. And since most poor families were black to start in 1994 the demographics remain the same.
But there are plenty more middle class black people than there are white people. That's progress. It's just the percentages that are skewed. If 75% of whites are middle class then that's only 3.5 million people.
You can't fix the poverty or the demographic disparity by 'solving' white people.
@Nanda Das u r Indian south African aren't u ? I am one from natal.
@@VonBinde hai voetsek man ur gat
@@Sumarai21 Add to the conversation and I'll consider hearing you out. But if you throw unintelligible insults, then I'll just assume you are trolling - and not care 👋
I am inpressed about the law lecturer views. He was been frank to the issues of racism in SA.
Yeah I was also wowed. Especially because he is white but acknowledges privileges he has because of the color of his skin.
You're falling for the good cop bad cop shitt.
That mlungu stated the obvious and didn't offer any solutions.
Now ya'll think he's one of the "good ones"
I remember I was a school kid and I used to love watching this show on SABC 2. Lol... it's funny I had already decided my career as a kid and didn't even realize.
In South Africa, "colored" means "mixed ppl," but to me, they are just another group who don't want to be black and can't be yte
We need The Big Debate back again
The most saddening thing is that this is just going to end here and probably action and change will be seen the next few decades to come.
We are in 2024 and its still sad how this conversation changed nothing💔💔💔so sad
😄😅😄 that Boer said we never wanted unity and he's telling the truth...
He was the only one telling the truth.
Who is watching this today during Covid19 pandemic and #BlacklivesMatter ?
Me 😊
And I must admit that I am so ignorant coming form Arabic World not knowing about This problem 😢I guess we are sockets in our own problems 😱😥😥
Boring. One of the most common comments over the last 3 odd months.
Me and my answer is above.
I am. It's impossible to ignore the problems of our own country when we are to focused on #BLM in America
All black lives should matter, friend
We cannot "forget" our histories of oppression and say to "move on" until all of our children have the same starting point in society regardless of their skin colour
That’s crazy.
Why would it take only a couple of generations to catch up to a civilization that is advanced by a couple thousand years?
Forget history? I think we need to Truly know our history, the entire stretching story of it - instead of looking at specific sections, out of context, for political expediency
Yes there is poor whites but did they become poor at the extent of racism.? To be honest being poor is another conservation.
But that what it was history. Move on, no is a slave right now, so I don't get this whole debate, unless you hate white people.
Amen!!!!! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾
right
South Africans have the same spirit as us African Americans. Keep fighting Im praying for my brothers & sisters in South Africa & all of Africa.
Black belive whites are rich and they give them opportunity to them to use them they feel sorry and try to create work for black s which they benefit and it becomes an issue I am making money for him but he give me little because you don't have an ideas
Woke
We will forever stand for what we believe in✊🏾Aluta Continua
There's a difference between the South Africans that is their home that is their native home that has been stolen from him their identity their culture their way of life they're living their land their structure their dignity has been stolen from them because they white people have used classism colorism and racism to depict how they are treating people that are native to South Africa and now you have a full fledge community of people that are not native people who have stolen land and culture who wants the right to be called africanos who want the right to call South Africa their home and it's not fair and the worst part of South Africa'spainful past and history is apartheid and how much destruction and how much force and how much control they had taken over and what they had done to the people that were native to this country and it is just despicable I don't know if anybody watch serafina but serafina was a good catch you get a big idea and a broad idea of what happened to children young African children were tortured beat and some of them even murdered it was awful and it still goes on to this day and South Africa you are not allowed at certain areas unless you have a pass sort of like antebellum slavery aware you got a pass from your owner and if you do not have a pass you are jailed or abused it is just another violent way that proves that Europeans have use colorismracism socialism and they have used these things against people in their native place and they have controlled so much of the thinking of these people these people were forced to learn how to bow down to white people they are not allowed to do certain things white people are to be served before their own people it is just a disgusting way of life and it still goes on to this day white people there also stand on privilege where they are allowed to do whatever whenever two blacks at any given time and it's disgusting the fight against apartheid I remember back in 86 I was just a little girl but I remember my uncle who was in the service who lived in Germany and England talking about it I didn't understand what a part that was until I got older and I understand the pain that the South African School through and it's awful
Lol South Africans are weak still under the white mans boots in their own country
Disappointing watching this in 2023 I think we need something like this in Nigeria
"I'm not here as an indian, I'm here as a black woman."✊✊✊✊
Iconic or what
Virtue signalling at its best
sorry but she's still an Indian
@@yungkingshaka1227 still an indian but all POCS are treated the same
Delusional. She doesn't have the black experience, she's clearly an indian.
6 years old & still a stunning debate. Hats off !
"You can't preach to one part of society reconciliation and preach empowerment to the other" Great quote!!
Why can't you though? To white oppressed they need to reconcile and the black oppressed need to be empowered to continue to fight for their equality.
@@whatreallymatters571 Can you see the contradiction? Am attempt to seek equality by treating different race groups not equally.
@@Somchai007 Yes, it's called equity. You can't treat people with different problems the same.
Yes you can. You preach reconciliation to the oppressors and empowerment to the opressed
@@KT-yx1vv Incorrect, unless you want of course apartheid, that might infact be what people like you want. Apartheid brings division, division brings animosity, animosity brings violence. The indigenous cant afford to have a culture war with with mainstream society...
It's crazy that blacks are discriminated by the people who colonised them. The cheek of it.
Im Kenyan and after watching this debate im so much in pain. South Africa has a lot of work to do to attain healing and reconcilliation. That boer shocked me.
Why ?
Apartheid just ended Thirty Years ago so of course the SA Nation will always have issues of love and life you know.
Great show and this needs to happen every now and then until it sinks in. Thank you
Agreed 🤝 ❤
Black South Africans, welcome to the United States of America! This is from a Black American woman!✊🏿✊🏿🤷🏾♀️😎
When that commentetor said to him"colored pple fall under black pple" his soul departed him😂😂😂😂
The guilty never wants to apologize
TBOTSS how are we wrong own up to what your ancestors caused and we can work together to fix it
Blacks are always innocent
why does every YT person need to apologize? most YT people have no power any anyone black nor do they actively do anything to harm them..its only the ones in power and with wealth...
Guilty of what moron , you'll got on the slave boat on your own , you could have died right there, but noooo, you broke weak and got on the boat .
💯% TRUE.
If we had more people like Mr De Vos and lebo the poet this country would be much better
Waouw!!!!!
What a debate!!!
Im stunned!!!
I understand now...why my guy from Cape Town...told me that South Africa still has a long way 2 go...when it comes to race relations...
As a Brasileiro🇧🇷 myself...I can say that we have our fair share of racism in Brasil...but not as harsh as what SA is still facing!!!
I mean I still can't believe what "The Burg White man" said...on stage...unreal...
Anyway praying that the situation will get better...
Brasil has horrible racism so stop pretending.
I'm not from South Africa but I truly enjoy this type of debate where people from different races who share the same country are given opportunity to express themselves on issues facing their country. This is the best moment !
That's America
@@lindaburnette195 basically
@@lindaburnette195 low key white south Africans sound like 1960’s southern Americans 😮
Don’t be silly my brother, we can’t let South Africa become another America, My Native Brothers tried to talk too.
Only thing that is going to work is for all people to come to a great meeting place in the world of the fact that we are not separated by race for the fact that we are ONE RACE created but we have different in pigment by the area that we have inhabited on the world. Our environment has been the only thing that has made us different in appearance. It has to change or we will not survive with hate and bigotry for each other!!!
I wish we have such debates in my country Sierra Leone to talk about the real reasons towards the backwardness of our country. One love to South Africa and Africa as a whole
Get the right, people-minded politicians into power in Sierra Leone.... corruption must go....or no progress
What a wonderful discussion!!!
I congratulate you for embarking on this process.
Brilliant debate! This is the sort of debate that every nation claiming to be multicultural, should be having with its people👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Simple... keep your culture, just know the land belongs to the nations. Being different isn't the problem, poverty and exclusion from economic equality is.
Nah deport those fuckers. They wanted to genocide the whole of South Africa if it was up to them.
Listen you black South African I just want to get something off my chest. I am Zimbabwean and you black South Africans always sugar coat your racist bull shit mentality. Lets talk about xenophobia and how you people brutally murder Black Zimbabweans? I want a answer for that ASAP!
Now I am not talking about racism i'm talking of tribalism and how you murder black Zimbabweans. I WANT A ANSWER ASAP!
NOW
@Chi Oke If you say that I have inherited colonization from my ancestors you have a low IQ, Well anyway then you have inherited slavery from your ancestors if I'm a colonizer because of my ancestors were then you are a slave because your ancestors. Now that's the logic we talking about here you ignorant idiot, so it boils down to this, I'm a colonizer and you are a SLAVE.
The Whites will not even clap with the audience, THEY NEED TO CHANGE THEIR HEART
Their heart is filled with pure evil
Im in the same culture as those white men, and in our culture its not so mandated to clap for anything
Only God can change hearts...hearts that desire to change so they can love. Hate does not want to love
We need to have this debate done again
Am from Kenya and i really do not know how i got here.... anyway, am here. I did not know South Africa was this divide. I really hope that such effort to bring reconciliation will bring exactly that.
Isn't it a bit odd??
SA has more than 80% of black population but, they are the one discriminated!!!
How can it possible??!
The blacks have the power in South Africa. Since that, all minorities (whites,indians,coloureds, khoi, etc.) face discrimination against them, getting jobs for example. OF COURSE there is racism. The racism by the blacks against all others, especially whites.
Adri Norse Fire
so the black people are racist as well ?
Dimakatso Maubane You are an ignorant. Khoi are not black, just because they have black skin. They are capoids, that means other race idiot.
the same way it was during the apartheid period
Adri Norse Fire haha...who came up with that?
South Africa is a fractured mirror
A paradox of schizophrenic selves
Who do not talk to one another
Who fear each other......I felt that Lebo, I felt that.
This is one of d most interesting and emotional
Debate that I have seen for a very long time I personally believe if people of different race an culture can unite d
World would be a better place for us all.
bring these types of conversations back.
We cannot focus on love, We need to focus on justice. Without justice there is no love.
Focus on yourself
@BK Sounds about white.
YES!!! I can only find love when the philosophy of the European has been crippled and killed.
@BK No, you need to sacrifice personal gain over everything just to see the next generation better than ours.
@bkanjilal you built nothing the Africans did
I agree with this line “it wasn't your vote to give because it wasn't your country to take ay first”
At the time, conquest was the way land was acquired. Zulus were doing the same thing.
Yes the western africans Bantus genocided the original south africans
@@chesterdonnelly1212 the first people had no conquest.
@@fullplates the first people were the San.
@@oompaloompa3188 as everyone knows our people thats such a crazy generalization. I personally give away 100,000 a year to the less fortunate. i work 100 hours weeks. But I get your point, I'm just saying that the original south africans have been discriminated against and obviously slaughtered in the past (of course all past history has been full of slaughtering etc.) I'm not justifying the crimes of the colonists (started by the elite back then]
Racism can’t be eradicated whilst properties of human relationship archive no devotion.
I think a good discussion would be if ALL South Africans from all races sit down. And each person just tells their story, with no disruption. Just their life story. So we can hear what all of us went through, our backstories, our ways of dealing with the life situations we are and were in... Just listen to each other. We will never understand where each culture gets their viewpoints if we don't really open our ears and hear everyone's stories. We have so much prejudices about each other. Because we don't actually understand each other. I know this debate was many years ago. But let's get a storytelling going. I think it would be an amazing and eye opening experience. I learned a lot by actually sitting down with other cultures.
Nothing good comes from talking about race. It just reinforces race as a concept, which creates racism and racial division.
How you remedy race is you stop talking about it and acknowledging it. Stop identifying yourself and others by their race.
Wow!!! This is Really Bad, I had no idea it was this Bad. My African Brothers and sister stay strong.
such a racist
The UCT lecturer is being very honest and Sunnet is ignorant
Typical white barbie throwing a tantrum because some of "her toys" are being taken away.
@@Mowizzy1 Please don't try fight racism with racist slurs. She is actually right-leaning or very conservative. Which is tied to the Big Five personality model. It's not because of the colour of her skin. There are plenty of left and right leaning people of all races.
@@VonBinde She's an ignorant. A privileged ignorant.
@@broadcastmadnesss I'm happy with that. As long as you don't say she is privileged and /or ignorant because of her skin tone. She might be privileged due to her class, or due to other factors. But not because she is white. That's the core of my message.
Apart from KTV and Supersport this Debate has been a very good forum for so many South Africans to view the beauty of their nation.
It has been a great academic TV experience,
SA needs more of such programmes on all Television Networks out there
And the rest of the world
@@Andre-wf8cb why
@@jamesbedukodjograham5508 Interesting 🤔
You can't solve a problem, until you admit that there is a problem.
Being black it´s hard no matter where you were born IT´S ALWAYS A BIG CHALLENGE
What advantages do white people have over black..?
@@dakota481 check some statistics data and realize by yourself.
Lowen Herz so you can not provide any ...? Give me one for an example.
Lowen Herz black people here in America get all types of privileges that no other race gets.. they even have their own tv channels.. they have NAACP, affirmative action and plenty of other programs that give blacks people a 1 up in society.. if anything black people have more privilege than any other race in America..
Dakota Clarke just an FYI, for their first few decades of existence all of the tv networks were white. Affirmative action has benefited white women primarily. The only reason there are black media organizations is because there is a need. Obviously you’re not from the USA.
The woman in the bleu dress is telling what the rest wouldn't see . Very intelligent.
Peggy De Weerdt very well said!! Bigs up! Watching in 2020, nothing seems to have changed !! I also feel the pain !!
While I was listening to this discussion, I like to say - Study, learn, and adopt the good points from Singapore.
These are some very intelligent folks. That lady in red is golden! Was a pleasure viewing this debate.
She really is a gem! So eloquent!
I highly respect and admire the way the speaker “Khaya Dlanga” handled all situations which were ‘potentially offensive’ with a smile throughout the whole show. That’s the best way to carry out a constructive discussion, having a non-emotional mindset.💯
Django ? Unchained.....Jamie Foxx..
Especially the 6 cows for Sunette’s daughter which he sarcastically corrected as 50 cows 43:58
"I'm not here as an Indian woman I'm here as a Black woman" bombshell I tell you
Love you sister from a Xhosa guy
She is a real one...very seldom do you come across that and I salute her✊🏿
She looks black
The dalits of Indian culture
Yes but she's Indian not a black woman.
How can you call yourself something you aren't?
@faith umuk I was surprised someone like her would say that in all places Subsaharan Africa.
I mean isn't there an Indian community in SA? Kind of to say "I'm not here as an Indian". Sounds slightly Rachel Dolezalish to me
The conversation is not long enough to have an impact, but it is a start. I would love more.
Eyes are still glued, mouth is sewed together ears are plugged may God please have mercy
Help us all .
Did anything change at all since this debate took place? I really need to know.
I really wish the aliens invade us, because then the the humans would realize the importance of togetherness. All our hearts will beat for each other at least? for sometime.
That wouldn't fix anything. Then it's an "Us vs Them" mentality all over again. District 9 explores that notion because the prawns are subjugated by everyone else in the country, even though the loophole in the story is that everyone then knows something that should have completely changed everything - that we are not alone in the universe - but conveniently forgets it to advance the plot.
When people can accept others for who they are, accept that everyone's reality is different, that their life experiences are what shape them, that centuries of rule in a particular fashion have changed ingrained mindsets over hundreds of generations, then we can start practicing real tolerance.
Otherwise, uniting the planet through a common enemy doesn't fix the root cause of the issue. The enemy of my enemy is my friend still leaves people as enemies when the external threat is diminished or defeated.
CataclysmZA second para - That would be heaven.
Sorry there r no aliens' BUT THERE IS A GOD' the only way
CataclysmZA You are a very intelligent individual. No truth greater than what you've said.
So race isn't real but aliens *are*.
I am 64 years old, read "Cry The Beloved Country" when I was 13, and lived through the end of "Jim Crow" segregation laws in the Southern United States, and the attempt to end "De Facto" segregation is large non Southern Cities. I'm also White. Until white people take a hard look at our centuries of racism that is deeply embedded in our culture and religion. Not much will chafe. And in all fairness, most people have difficulty with that sort of change after age 30, sometimes 20.
South Africa has in immense amount of pain over race. Too many people on both sides of the equation hang on to that pain, and use it as a shield. And those who have power, are loathe tl give it up. I agree with Desmond Tutu, whites in South Africa are very lucky.
But the larger issue that the whole country needs to deal with is moving from a mostly agricultural nation, that needs cheap labor, to an industrial and technological nation that is much more prosperous and can create jobs for more of it's people. It took Korea 40 years to move from a third world country to the powerhouse that it is today. You can do it too, but you have to stop the blame game (white folks) and accept that your black neighbors are God's children and deserving of a full measure of dignity, respect and INCOME.
The United States is much closer to equality, mostly because the younger generation, people under 30, are much more aware of the current class warfare that is going on, and that if affects all races equally. It's taken 3 generations, but it's happened.
Keep up the dialogue, let the angry white people march in the streets, their children will think they are crazy, their grandchildren will wonder what planet they were on.
God save all of us from our own ignorance, fear and hatred.
Thank you Sir couldn't have said it better my self.
Well said.
I agree with you Edward however racism is so deeply inbeded in South Africa, In young black people who were not even there during the aparthied era and white people who were taught that black people are violent and ignorant. Being a South African and currently living in a specific area that has two towns very near each other but very very different I have little hope left. Some white afrikaans people are teaching their kids racism at a young age, the first town is white upperclass and benefiting greatly from Tourism, giving black people that have a deep history in this area only demoralizing jobs with low wage. Some of the older black people are very submissive and white children have been seen to discriminate them in front of their parents. They are producing a new generation of a racist society. People like this and Sunette the women from this video make it very hard moving forward because they still believe they should be superior and that their problems are of greater importance so they instill this into their kids. 50 % of the newer white generation are full on racist and arrogant, a quarter recognize in themselves some racist beliefs and are trying to change slowly(you have to give them props for this given the belief systems they grew up with) but find it increasingly difficult when racial tension arise from their white friends and relatives and the rest are mostly English and are living the South African rainbow nation dream with some privileged black people.
We are joined = we will never be = .
Well said❤❤❤
The Africans are 81% of the country. Coloureds and Asians ( from India) have some of the wealth. Whites have a large amount of the corporations. The Blacks have the Parliament since 1994!
I am watching this in awe. I honestly am broken that this is reality. being from america and going through racism and to see in SOUTH AFRICA that they cant or are being told that they have no right to their ancestors land. And for the mixed race to say that the blacks dnt belong when they are part black. that is totally strange to me. And how the whites say that they have rights to the land that their ancestors took from the natives. I hope that one day this will be rectified and the people will heal emotionally and bring it all together. And as for me here i hope for the same because we are still going through the division. Once we as ppl of color understand that no matter how light or dark we are we are still the same in others eyes. Period
THE WHITE MAN SAID.... A BLACK SAID THEY NEED TO KILL WHITES.....AND WHITE MAN COMPLAINED THAT NO ONE REBUKED HIM ALL CALLED IT RACISM.....THIS IS TYPICAL.........I WAS ORDAINED ELDER IN ONE OF THE LARGEST BLACK DENOMINATIONS IN USA AND WE HAD A MEETING IN CHURCH AND BISHOP WAS SPEAKING AND HE SAID.."GO OUT AND KILL WHITEY.." AND NOT ONE BLACK PERSON STOOD UP AND CORRECTED HIM OR APOLOGIZED TO ME.....EXCEPT THE THE BISHOP SAID TO ME " EXCUSE ME REVEREND KING BUT THIS IS AMERICA..."...NOW IF ANY WHITE PREACHER IN MOST WHITE CHURCHES I HAVE BEEN IN EVER SAID GO OUT AND KILL BLACKIE THE WHOLE CHURCH WOULD RISE UP AGAINST THIS KIND OF HATE TALK.........I TOLD A BLACK PASTOR AND ONE OF HIS FOLLOWERS THIS STORY AND THEY BOTH LAUGHED..AS SOME OF YOU BLACK BIGOTS MIGHT THINK IT WAS FUNNY.......BUT I KNOW LOVELY BLACKS THAT WOULD SAY THAT IS TERRIBLE...SO MAKE YOUR CHOICES IF YOU WANT TO BE A BLACK RACIST OR A WHITE RACIST...ME I WANT NONE OF THIS TRASH...BUT IT SEEMS LIKE BLACK RACISM IS ON THE RISE HERE IN USA AS IT IS IN SOUTH AFRICA.
Those mixed race people in SA are a mess, white people have gotten deep into their heads
@Koko Doka Couldn't have said it better
I can remember a time when the church didn't have to say the words, they just used the bible to help pack millions of Black Africans on boats like sardines, ship to the west, die at sea, get tarred and feathered and the rest is history...the meek shall inherit the earth...slaves, servants...justified with the Holy Bible...Bigots have children, and grand, and great and great great grandchildren...in the Name of Jesus!
@Peter September but y'all are black too. This is why it's confusing. Like you are in Africa the land of the blacks and you called or see yourself different from all others. This is how the european beat us and conquer. They mobilize, come together and defeat. But us no matter what country u are from your are still and African born within your tribe. When ppl start to understand this only then can the continent be a power to recon with. Even in Europe they know they european within their respective groups. That's all. And if u dnt see ur self as such and have those who try to connect with u then what is it to do. From my experience i see a lot of coloreds be closer to the dutch travelers who settled there and is claiming it lands but u fight with ppl who are from there and migrated from surrounding countries. San ppl are my ppl as well. Born in America looking at how divided the clans are is very sad. I mean look at is here. Most are trying to come together to mend and repair the damage of many yrs of killing, divided and forced hate towards each other. It's not where we want to be but it's better than it was. And africans born in America are trying to become one unite knowing that we are different and part of many tribes but have one goal. Freedom, self sustaining and not allowing 5hose who wish us harm to control our stories, lives and culture anymore.
Great conversation, we need a show like this in America...
There is Race to Dinner
@@befitforlifegetone8114 looking forward to watching it
You late it was called the “Phil danahou “ show .. do your research
Wow! This is the best debate I have watched this year. Let's forgive and live with each other despite the color of our skin.
Damn…the coloured conversation needs work . 2023 and as a native African I still don’t understand enough about my mixed brothers and sisters .
Both black women are so incredible, the poet and the activist they are saying things with so much power and accuracy that you are being forced to listen to them with great attention. They have seduced handily the audience by their strenght of mind and broaden Knowledge updated over the time.
I am so under the spell that I am being bound to write to pay tribute for their work over Blackness.
Stop with blackness, its all about being humanness. Blks want to be felt heard but that is not the point....All women need to be heard , as there is no women better than the other. BLM movement?? What happen to the monies raised by the movement?? Gone? Just like we have a blk government that continually rapes the people of basic service's. So lets move foward and speak about humans not blk and white.
I also encourage WHITENESS, dont call me a racist
A plaster on a gunshot wound, what an apt analogy 👏
I am late to the party
I am not even south African but dis debate is sooo interesting and educative.
Kudos 👏👏👏
You are not late.where you from?
It's a pity, these constructive talks are easily forgotten & we normally revert back to the mire of our selfishness
I love this law lecture, he's so honest.
Truth!!!
Starting at 20:16, the professor has given the answer as to why racism exists. Racism has always been about POWER! Groups that oppress other people will CONTINUE to oppress other culture because they are wanting to keep the control they have! If people were not so greedy and power hungry, racism would have been abolished a long time ago.
Yup. The problem isn't race. It's human nature.
This is what I have been telling people, the problem of racism stems from the systems that we have in place all over the world. Racists are Racists because of the power and privilege they aquire through these disproportionate systems that we all utilize today.
If people of color, especially people of African descent were to focus on creating new systems and getting rid of the old ones, there would be an instantaneous shift in the social and economic power dynamic on the globe.
The system is the disease, racism is a symptom.
Right.
@@smokeyg.5060 *You're conflating what was said. Racism is not human nature.*
If we didn't see race as people we won't have a racism problem because we all human
If you do not address economic inequality you will never address rascism.
2023, I am here watching this. Awesome 👌 debate.
As a Nigerian i thought we have problem until i saw this, and this might be the same in every africa countries which shows the problem is not about tribe or colour but poverty ,why a nation is doing badly(bad leaders) people try to identify with their tribe and colour.
Corruption and greed is problem. I look at Zimbabwe and Rwanda for an examples of violence that has to do with evil leadership
You do have a problem, worse than ours
The main problem isn't bad leaders or poverty, the main problem that we face as a continent that cause all these socio-economic issues is the systems that we have in place, that enable such socio-economic to thrive.
The systems that we utilize weren't structured to serve the African people, they were structured to serve foreign interests, that's why there's more capital going out of the continent, than in.
@@mathapelomolete5430 I disagree. ANC has been in power since forever. What's stoping them from changing the system to suit everyone? We cannot keep on blaming the past colonizers for our failures. Our black government is corrupt to the core. That's the real problem
@@fezilenkabinde9087 Do you know how much western nations take from Africa annually? Trillions of dollars
Corruption only contributes to $60 billion of the total amount of money smuggled out of the continent.
The systems that you are utilizing are not helping you, the African people, to economically grow your continent. Do you know how much America takes out of our country annually? $400 billion, not rands, dollars, and they have been doing this for decades, long before the ANC.
We have a $410 billion economy, even half of that amount of net worth is enough to develop the country, yet we don't see this development. You can't blame that on the ANC, no matter how long the ANC has been in power, they would not have been able to smuggle such an immeasurable amount of money out of the country, it's impossible.
The systems that you work under weren't structured for you, dozens of economists have literally said this, Moeletsi Mbeki an economist himself, has said that our South African economy, and the broader African economy was structured to serve foreign interests, not African interests.
Africa economy was not structured to be industrialist, it's wasn't structured to manufacture, it was structured to be a raw material exporter, that's why you see so much poverty and underdevelopment in the continent.
The Continent is literally in a debt trap because of organizations like the WEF. Western nations can pay their debt in their own currency, even though they are trillions of dollars in
debt, yet African countries can't do this, they have to pay their debts with their massively devalued currencies into dollars, you know how economically depriving that is?
You are asking what is stopping the ANC from changing the system? The ANC doesn't have economic power 🙃 have you ever heard of the sunset clause?
This is the same story throughout the continent, africans don't have economic control of their own economies. 85-90% of corporations in the continent are owned by westerners, Asians and Arabs.
You could go to Namibia, Zambia, Angola, Zimbabwe etc, and see the exact same thing, you don't have control over your own economy, if you don't have economic power, you don't have any transformational power at all.
God bless that black woman in red. This is a classicm issue!
"The BIBLE" Greatest Book Ever Written.
Last Days Prophesy!
Babylon The Great (America) Is Falling.
PSALM 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking LIES.
All Praises To The Most High and his Son.
My question is how did one class gain so much wealth?
I was extremely happy to listen to this for the first time and i would say if it cintinued? Perhaps SA could have gotten somewhere! The debate was intense, illuminative and engaging! It elicited some emotion as expected but nonetheless there was in the end a bit of youthful spark where young people brought in some interesting diverse issues and vied to continue without the elders who still live in the past and nursing their pains! I for instance feel that way because these youths are the ones who will carry the Olympic torch to light their future
Let me delve a bit on what I thought was a pivotal moment! There were three or four of them but the one standing out is about politicians deciding what happens on the ground. You see when you have people like malema deciding what his followers need and by the way he is a very divisive individual then you can see what this topic is all about! Is rainbow nation dead! But again on this note I will praise the young guy who see it as limping
Bring back the Big Debate please!!!
Why are they wasting their time trying to reason with people who have no business their to begin with?
This is the question of a lifetime. If this situation was the other way around, there would be no talking.
You got that right.
+Danielle Rameau I've been saying that for years. I refuse to debate and argue with white people over racism and discrimination.
Carmen T it's going down now.
Puglous what do you mean
There is so much anger and hate in south Africa!
All this is due to racial segregation that lasted 400 years...
@Corey Jones
... but it might be. Collectively they are horrible and the white supremacist systems and institutions they put in place is horrible. I have no love in my heart for their white supremacy. You can talk about individuals and lots of groups of good people, but that is not what is being talked about here.
@aboutthetruthmedia organization I just stated a fact
The whole diaspora my guy.. SA has always been the melting pot
I don't think Sunnette heard what she said... The lady said, I'm a proud Sotho woman. She didn't say I am a proud black Sotho woman. And Sunnette compares that with saying she is a proud 'White' Afrikaner woman. Do you see how it's all about race for her?
We need to discuss these topics more 2023🇿🇦🇿🇦
I'm not from Africa, but what I sense is black people are tiring of the "get over it" attitude of whites. There seems to be some healing that needs to be done. But that is difficult to do when the person/persons who are a product of the wound, tell you to get over it.
You said it all
Yeah because they know that if the shoe was on the other foot and they themselves were on the receiving end of over 3 to 4 hundred years of oppression within their own countries they would be singing the same song, case closed
Healing in this sense means a place without whites. How do I know this? Well we have all the evidence we need right here in American colleges. Places of healing (where whites are not allowed). Blacks are the most racist people on the earth at this moment. Not just against whites either.
In the end all you can do is get over it and move on , or fight and kill, take your pick
Whites don't sy "get over it," they say "stop claiming that you are a victim or entitled to what you did not earn." Pretty logical to me
Lebo......you are talking for a people, not for a race. You go girl!!!! We need more influential women and men like you.