The 405 and 45's are definitely powerful cartridges, but that 50-110 is in another class altogether. I still cannot get over how much it can do. Amazing! Love them lever guns. Thanks for the great video. Stay safe.
It can definitely do a lot but, I wouldn't down play the 405 or 45-90. 405 with modern powder, can shoot 400 grain solids at 2080 fps, becoming a lever action 450/400 nitro express, and 45-90 can shoot 450 grain solids at 2150, becoming a slightly weaker 458 win mag lever action. Remember how the 50-110, even with all that impressive energy and speed, couldn't penetrate the wood as easily as the 405? And that was basically factory ammo speeds, not loaded up to 2,500 fps+. Sectional density is a gigantic factor in taking down the biggest dangerous game such as elephant, and shooting the right sectional density bullets at a high enough velocity, is where 50-110 suffers. Especially with solid bullets, as they're a lot longer than lead, hence why you have to use 450 grain solids in the 45-90, instead of the optimal 500. Eats too much powder space.
You make some very good points and I am not trying to downplay any of the other cartridges. I have a 416 Rigby, 45/70, 45/90 and a 458 win mag. They are all quite impressive and capable of taking the larger game animals. Then I look at my 505 Gibbs... There are just some cartridges that somehow require respect. 😉 All I am saying is that in a lever gun, I think the 50-110 is one that needs respect.
@@rickycrazyhunter8530 Those are some nice guns there, amigo. I'm a big fan of big bores, and love all of them but, I tend to see that the smaller 40 cals tend to be under rated a lot. I see your point though. Holding a 12+ lbs double rifle also gives off the same kind of aura.
The .50-110 is just the cat’s meow by any measure. Between finding/ building one of those & a 1886 or Model 71 in .45-90 AND something I had wanted before I ever discovered your channel: a Model 95 in .405 Winchester, one of Teddy Roosevelt’s favorite big game rifles and he took them to Africa multiple times. I first saw the.405 Winchester on another favorite channel- North61, fellow with great hunting rifles and experience and emphasizes lots of range practice and testing different loads with what you’re planning on hunting with that season, which was an “Aha!” moment for me. I’ve got what I think is about the best rifle & cartridge made: a ‘48/‘49 Model 71 in .348 Winchester that my Dad bought around 1952. It’s just flawless. I can blame the North61 fella for the money I can’t afford for a.405 Model 95. But I told the Missus I’d have to blame you us being poorer once I find a Model 1886 in .45-90 or get converted to a.50-110.🤣 Jokes aside, thanks for the tricks and tips and entertaining videos!
As a kid I'm the early 60's my neighbor had an 1886 in 50-110 he hunted Alaskan brown bears with in the 50's. I got to shoot it when I was about 12. My dad had an 1886 in 45-90 but swapped in for a 30-40 Craig original carbine and a S&W lemon squeeze.
If I ever do decide to branch out from black powder into early smokeless powder 1890s pieces, the Winchester 1895 certainly looks sweet. I regret giving away my .30-40 Krag brass because I think I the Winchester 1895 had a clambering in that cartridge.
Yes, it did. I have originals in .30-40, .35 WCF and .405 WCF. Incidentally, you can make brass for either the .35 or .405 from .30-40 cases. They end up a bit short, but since they headspace on the rim and the 1895 uses a box magazine and a crimp is not needed, they work fine if you seat bullets to the normal OAL for the .35 or .405.
Oddly enough the first two chamberings in the 1895 were black powder cartridges....38-72 and .40-72. The .405 is really nothing more than a jazzed up .40-72 with a larger rim diameter to prevent it being fired in a .40-72, other wise case dimensions are nearly identical. Yes, the 1895 was chambered in .30-40. These will often be marked ".30 US" or ".30 Army" and some later ones are marked .30-40. If you find a rifle marked ".30 Gov't" that is actually a .30-03 which can also fire .30-06. Later the .30-03 was dropped and the .30-06 took it's place. They are great rifles. FWIW the Japanese made copies are excellent quality. Really outstanding quality. They have been made in .30-40, .30-06 and .405. I have one in .30-06 and actually shoot it more than my originals. If you are looking for a shooting/hunting rifle I would seek out one of the copies. Not many people know it, but more than half the original 1895s were chambered in 7.62x54R and sold to Russia who used them in WW1, the Russian Revolution and the Russian Civil War. I would bet more than a few of them were used in WW2 also. They used to be fairly common on the surplus market here in the US.
...my late wife bought me an 1895 chambered in .30-40 Krag back in 2008 or so...I've yet to shoot it - only have 20 rounds and the brass is pretty much unobtanium although I do have a st of dies...
I'm interested in exactly how powerful the .45 can be with 70 or even 90, BUT! with Rowland style rounds which can provide 40% increase in velocity over the .45 ACP. The Rowland being a more densely packed .45 ACP(ish) sized round called a .460 Rowland. In other words, I wanna see something like a .460-70 or .460-90 Rowland tested against some targets, especially combat armor. In your other video you tested the .45-70 and .45-90 against combat armor, and that's the closest answer to my question that I've been able to find. But I really want to know if the .45 can actually compete directly with rifle rounds with Rowland's style of increased compression. I know this is not at all what you do, but I'm super curious. By the way, this question is for an indie video game I'm working on. It's a sci-fi that takes place on a planet with much denser atmosphere, and lower gravity than Earth, which results in riffle rounds losing accuracy because the wind has significantly more pressure and mass to blow them off-target. The air pressure + wind pressure is almost half as bad as shooting into calm water. Meanwhile on Earth if you fire rifle and pistol rounds into water, you end up with the pistol rounds, especially the .45 remaining relatively straight trajectory while the riffle rounds deform and curve in under 3 feet of water. There are a couple of slow motion videos of this on TH-cam. Anyway, the nature of this extra-terrestrial atmosphere makes round nosed, high mass projectiles more accurate, so they end up leaning into .45 caliber. Makes a lot of sense when you look at the round nose of a submarine which reduces internal vibrations. For other reasons involving the nitty gritty details of the story, they end up re-manufacturing old, cheap, fast, and simple stamped steel firearms to outfit their army as fast as possible. So they end up making a variant M3A1 grease gun for .45-70 and relying on it as a sort of assault rifle. At least, that's the plan for now. The nut shell reason being that they had no military before being invaded, and they had to use their futuristic 3D printing tech to very rapidly create assembly line machinery for outfitting their civilian militias. As I learn more I might adjust some of these details to make them work better.
Very interesting concept, higher velocity doesn’t work well in water, as you can see in my lower velocity test the 50-110 at a velocity of about 1600 feet a second penetrated 17 jugs of water, The same bullet if sped up to 2350 FPS will only penetrate three, A lot of rifle rounds push to over 4000 FPS the plastic nose or even the lead tip will start burning and you can see ring some smoke all the way down to the target, So in more dense air would probably cause any bullets over 2000 feet a second to do the same thing because of friction, so I’m guessing you would need really heavy well rounded bullets traveling at a slower velocity,, The lower gravity will probably allow the bullet to fly farther without being pulled to The planet surface, thereby a slower moving bullet may have just as long of a point blank range as one on earth have a higher velocity, generally arrows will penetrate water better than bullets, i’ll study it out and see what I can come up with
@@Leverguns50 Oh man, thanks! All my stuff is coming from pure theory since I only own an airsoft gun. Haven't gotten a real firearm yet. So to hear you confirm my ideas is huge. If you end up doing some tests in this direction, I'd be over the moon. I'm planning to have a Codex in my game that explains everything about the why, when, where and how of the sci-fi because I love hard sci-fi style. I was already going to provide links to TH-cam videos in the Codex leading to info on things like the M3A1 and such on various channels like Forgotten Weapons, and I can't tell you when it will release but I want to link to your videos too. This will be paired up with a ton of other TH-camrs like heavy science channels and such.
My small Filipino wife prefers my Win 94 in 356 but I usually grab my 405. But my Marlins in 356 and 450 accept top mounted scopes. Great for low light conditions.
I had a Remington rolling block that would blow primers with anything more than very mild loads . It was a original action the barrel was numeric barrel after 6 moths of shooting .I slugged the bore for a custom mold and groove diameter was 452 ! With a custom 500 grain 452 mold it shot beautiful . Always slug your bore
Great reviews all ways! I have learned a lot from your reviews. Oh to be young in these days with all the info available. I never new there was such a thing as a 50-110 great round.
Thank you so much I appreciate you, I remember the first time I found out about that big old 50-110 cartridge my dad bought a reloading manual called Winchester lever legacy and that dude shot a grizzly bear with it very impressive
For deer hunting I would probably recommend really tough 41 caliber, pistol bullets like solid copper hollow points or something, as the 300 grain bullet is a pretty tough bullet is more made for a bigger game
Actually my shoulder didn’t hurt, I thought it might be sore the next day but it wasn’t, you notice I didn’t benchrest any of that, whatever reason shooting from the bench is a whole different ball game.
@@Leverguns50 I hope you get to see this. I just got ahold if my first Lever gun. A miroku 94. And i found one in 38-55 to boot. I just had to have one. Your videos inspired that purchase tremendously. And i shot exactly 2 255 grain at 1600 fps loads off the bench before deciding that wasnt the best approach. LMAO i cant imagine trying that with those big boys. The curved steel butt plate is not friendly off a bench.
There was also a video on a 600 grain load going out 1340 feet per second from a 18.5-in barrel however it did not say what pressure is it was at because it was pounding the hell out of the guy's shoulder😅
Although generally I like your videos, I really think that more of an effort should been made to try to get bullet weights that were closer to the same BC. As you stated before the 405 with the longer bullet had a better BC. So although the video was fun to watch oh, I don't really see the relevance in penetration. I always like to see something with lever guns I just love them.
What bullet, brand and weight, would you recommend for hunting all deer species and wild hogs in a 45/70 or 450 marlin up to 200yds or so? Currently I’m using a Rem 405gr around 1950fps.
Those cartridges laying side by side looked like mini-missiles. Outstanding, thank you. Powerful firearms for dangerous game. Look up t-rex & give us your take on that bad boy. Watched people shooting it that should not have been. Again thank you for sharing your passion with us!
New to your channel and watching your videos on the 50-110. What is the twist of your barrel if you don't mind me asking? I'm a bit surprised it could stabilize a 700 grain bullet. -Tutt
@@Leverguns50 Thank you for the prompt reply! What is the length of the 700 grain bullet? That 600 hundred grain Hawk bullet I think is perfect so far!!! -Tutt
@@Leverguns50 I think maybe 1:20 too fast. Measure the length of the bullets you want to use using multiple twist calculators with a lead bullet (they are all based on Greenhill's formula but modified some for velocity and what metal you are using to make the bullet) You can pick the right twist then with not much difficulty. Good on you for what your doing! -Tutt
Of those three loads, if i was hunting large dangerous game, I would be using the 405 for the penetration. The 45 and 50 caliber cartridges would be much better on large dangerous game with heavier bullets that would penetrate better.
Awesome! 50-110 log splitter! Would love to see this test with 480-530 grain 45-90’s and 500-600 gain 50-110’s. Great sectional density and coefficient. Man that 50-110 is a butt stomper huh!!!
“TRACER Ammo”. Try reloading the 50-110 with some “tracer” using pulled tracer heads from surplus 50 BMG ammo, unless you can find a source of already pulled or new tracer heads.
You’re right about that, when I made it, I just wanted to be at least as powerful is a hot loaded 45-70, there was no information to go on, when it come to smokeless powder loads for a modern Version of the 50-110 WCF, in fact the first cartridges I had for it were necked up 348 cartridges I got from Buffalo arms, shortly after that Buffalo arms and other companies got Starline to start making brass for it, The brass last really good probably more than 40 shots per cartridge,
lots of people piss and moan about low sectional density of the 300 grain 405 . But fail to realize they have almost the same sectional density as a 180 grain 308
Have an original 95 in .405, shot quite a few moose n elk with it, there is zero blood trailing required, dead on arrival within a few feet. Love that big ol bitch.
We haven’t signed anything with this one, but it’s good to know how well it should do, I don’t really care about blood trailing stuff, although I am an excellent tracker, tracking is time consuming i’d rather spend that time doing something else
The 405 is my choice because the 1895 doesn't jam...it's not a tube feeder. T.R. chose it for close work on lions and because he could rely on it. Other lever actions jam.
Good morning. I enjoy your videos very much. I own a few 1886 chambered in 45-70 myself. I see the 1886 chambered in 45-90 you used has a peep sight. I am looking for one to install on one of mine. What model number is it? Thank you.
@@Leverguns50 Thanks! I called Williams and ordered the FP-71. Did you install your's? If so, have you done a video on it? Thanks again for your interest in Winchesters. Nice to see!
I inherited several original M1895 and M1886 rifles from my grandfather. The 1886s are in .45-70 and .33 WCF, the 1895s in .30 Army (.30-40) .35 WCF and .405 WCF. I also added a Japanese made 1895 reproduction in .30-06 and a Japanese made reproduction 1886 in .45-70. I favor the Model 1895 action, just because of the versatility it gives in bullet types. Also, because it is a box magazine, it allows me to do things like making .35 and .405 cases from .30-40 brass. Even though they are a bit short, I seat bullets out to the recommended OAL and a crimp is not needed in the box magazine. A good firm fit in the case is all that is needed. This lets me save my more expensive .35 and .405 cases for "serious" loads. My practice loads are made up of reformed .30-40 cases and cast bullets in both cartridges. Likewise, for the .33 WCF I form cases from .45-70 brass. I wish I had one of the Japanese made .50-110s, though, I have to admit.
Wow do you have a Lotta nice guns, I always dreamed of getting a 33 Winchester. I talk to the people over at Buffalo arms and they said they had some reformed brass for the 405 Winchester, are used to use reformed brass from 348 for the 50-110 WCF
@@Leverguns50 I do indeed. I am the beneficiary of two great gun guys, my grandfather and father and having been fortunate enough to have the resources to add to my collection myself over 50 years. I still add guns regularly. I just got a super deal on a Winchester Model 63 this week. ($285) I already had one but couldn't pass on this deal, so it will be trading stock. I have some Buffalo Arms .405 cases I bought in the 90s and I have quite a few boxes of Hornady 300 gr. bullet factory ammo I bought about 20 years ago. But for general practice I just use the slightly short fireformed .30-40 cases and cast bullets. I use 5 grs. Red Dot powder, fill the case to the mouth with cornmeal (no wad needed, just fill the case) and then I push a block of paraffin wax into the case mouth and twist it off to seal the case. Take them outside and fire them. They are VERY LOUD and blast cornmeal all over the place, so do it well away from your house. But they perfectly form the cases (either .35 or .405) then just load the bullets to the regular OAL and ignore the crimp grooves. The .33 WCF was actually the only chambering for the 1886 in the last few years they were made. I have seen quite a few for sale. It is certainly adequate for deer, bear, boar, etc. It is about the same ballistics as a .35 Remington. Cases are easy to make, and bullets are easy to get but you have to be careful with your bullet choices as most are made for .338 Magnums. And you have to be mindful of where the crimp cannelure is. I use cast bullets for most of my shooting with this rifle.
@@Leverguns50 Works good to make .35 Whelen from .30-06 also, but now that .35 Whelen has been a factory cartridge since the late 80s, it really isn't necessary anymore. But if one had a bunch of surplus .30-06 laying around...
Something I don't think anyone has mentioned yet, is that those 405 Winchester loads are basically the factory load, 300 grains at 2200 fps. They can get a hell of a lot faster than that. Regardless, great video. If you ever want to know the load for 400 grain woodleigh solids at 2050-2080 fps, just let me know.
@@Leverguns50 I see. I have a buddy that has a pressure tracer II, that he uses to test and develop loads. He found that n133 produces much lower pressures than the other powders he was using, and that's the powder we use to shoot the 400 grain solids.
How effective was she on that big porker? Have you tried out any of Barnes solid copper expanding bullets? I use the tipped TSX in my 06 and I've recovered perfectly expanded rounds from the loose clay/earth backstop at the range and have never had a failure to exit on whitetails even on shoulder hits.
Great video, my “brother-in-Christ! Next test maybe you could shoot into a piece of dry (or wet) Red or White Oak. I used to do this when I lived up in the backwoods of northwest Wisconsin in the later 1970’s. Used mostly my .58’s & 45/70. That wood was like “Granite”!!! The .58 Minnie balls would expand to about 1 & 1/4”! They may not penetrate a lot, but the “knockdown power” was tremendous! Wonderful days as a bachelor!!! “Gesundheit” & pass da possum belly & hawg jowl poleaze!
Wow it just put a split in that log and one when thru to that plastic jar so i guess that's strong gun & bullet love the video keep them coming liked 126 thanks for sharing with us
Well I know that the Winchester 1886 I have a magazine called leverguns Winchester's introduction of the 1886 stated this the 1886 was the only rifle that could sustained continuous firing with 500 grain bullets and withstand them the 405 Green from what I've read was used in the Springfield trapdoor rifles for the cavalry of 405 grain bullets
When I went to load them I had to double check make sure they wasn’t Hornady brass because it looks so short, I remember when 45-70s were huge. Sometimes I have to remind myself it’s still is, The length of that 405 kind of dwarfs everything.
For recoil management, I once had a Ruger No.1 with a butt pad called a “Counter-Coil”. It was a small hydraulic shock absorber, which “exploded” leaking all the oil out, when I subjected it to 9,500 ft lbs of muzzle energy from a 9 1/2 lb Ruger No.1 in 577 3” Nitro Express. I had wanted to shoot cost effectively to experience 585 Nyati power levels. And I worked up loads in this 577 3” Nitro Express Ruger No.1 looking for any signs of a cratered primer or tight extraction, and found none. Though, the case rim strangely would come to a stop on the top of the block, upon otherwise easy ejection with lighter loads. The rifle would torque through 45 degrees to the left upon firing the 9,500 ft lb load, and come out totally of one’s left hand unless fingers were wrapped over the top of the barrel. Despite the muzzle brake, the recoil would take the rifle to a great extent also out of one’s shoulder. I did not work out the ft lbs of recoil energy. Upon reloading the cases, I found the case mouth would not align with the sizing dye. The case head was no longer at 90 degrees to the case wall. 🤭 I then realised this was why the maximum 9,500 ft lb loads were binding on the top of the block at the case rim after an otherwise faultless ejection. Essentially, there is not enough threaded shank diameter on a 577 barrel in the Ruger No. 1 to cope safely with a 9,500 ft lb load, and the barrel had “flexed” at the threaded shank at the action interface substantially during this recoil. Fortunately there was no damage to the gun or to me or bystanders. Made by SSK, and chrome plated in a soft blue hue, with an integral muzzle brake, it has British Birmingam Proof Marks. The gun was later stolen and sent to the USA by the U.K.’s greatest ever fraudulent gun dealer, who was convicted and jailed. So..... somewhere in the USA someone has my stolen rifle, a 577 3” Nitro Express Ruger No.1 by SSK, in a blue brushed soft chrome, a broken Counter-Coil, integral muzzle brake and no front sight facility, as scoped only rifle. Life.
I have both .45-70 (1886) and .405 (1895) rifles. I think the .405 is superior for most purposes. One caveat...I do not handload my cartridges to the levels you do, though I have both original and Japanese made modern versions of both. I also have original Model 1895s in .30-40 and .35 WCF and a Japanese reproduction in .30-06. I will not try to compare either to the .50-110 the way you load them. At least not in terms of raw power. The .405 offers better sectional density (which equates to penetration) in any comparable bullet weight than the .45-70 and offers the use of pointed bullets for better ballistic coefficient, though, admittedly, I do not consider either to be "long range" cartridges for hunting. (Yes, I know some people use them at known ranges out to 1000 yds and get great results) I handload for all my firearms, I have a good stock of .405 brass (and usable brass can be made from .30-40 Krag, a bit short, but seat the bullets out and everything is OK, they work fine in a box magazine) I use cast bullets for most shooting in both cartridges. Just my opinion. If a person does not handload, I will concede the .45-70 would be easier to live with.
Sounds like you have a wonderful collection, I think the 35 Winchester would be an awesome deer cartridge, especially in the 95 Winchester super smooth action, thank you for sharing
@@Leverguns50 I inherited the originals from my grandfather, I added the reproductions to take some of the wear off the originals. Yes, the .35 WCF is an excellent deer/bear/boar/elk/moose cartridge. It is roughly equal to the .358 Win., a little under the power of the .35 Whelen. My grandfather, father and I have killed many deer, black bear and wild hogs with that rifle. MUCH easier on the shooter than the .405 WCF. Recoil is about on par with a .30-06. I bought a big supply of brass for it years ago from Bertram, which I used for hunting loads. For practice, I usually use much more common (and cheap) .30-40 cases which I fireform with a light charge of Red Dot powder, fill the case with cornmeal and jam a block of paraffin into the case mouth to plug it closed. Works perfectly. These fireforming loads are very LOUD and I only shoot them outdoors in an open area. Then I seat the bullets to the normal OAL for the .35 WCF and ignore the crimping groove (if any) as a crimp is not needed in the Model 1895 box magazine. My favorite bullet for hunting loads is the Sierra 225 gr. SBT For practice, I use cast bullets with a Lyman 358315 with pure wheelweight metal these cast about 200 gr. with lube and GC. I have also used 158gr. SWC for handgun loads with light powder charges for my sons when they were younger, or my grandchildren. They can shoot Great-Great Granddad's rifle with virtually no recoil.
@@user-xy9sp8hg9n See my notes above for handloading. Factory ammo I have not seen for some years. But, to be honest, I haven't looked. I have a lifetime supply of factory ammo and hunting bullets for handloading. It used to be fairly common and I laid in a good stock or Hornady hunting loads years ago. I use cast lead bullets for practice. Cast lead bullets are also fine for shooting deer or boar. I have killed several deer with .405 WCF and .35 WCF rifles loaded with cast lead bullets.
@@Leverguns50 Yeah… I know. But compared to the Lion Killers you were shooting, it would seem like a pea-shooter! P.S. would the 50-110 have spilt the log if other bullets hadn’t drilled part way through? My shoulder hurt just WATCHING you fire them!
It is and the originals come and take downs as well, however I didn’t up for the interrupted threads as most takedowns have, because I wanted a little bit more meat around the cartridge, however it’s probably not necessary since most pistol chambers that take 65,000 psi are thinner
The 45/90 is basically a 458 magnum with a rim . So ask yourself would I actually enjoy a 50/110 . Because if people are honest very few people would. If you do have one built, get the heaviest barrel you can get on it ,and have the stock filled up with mercury recoil reducers
If you do have 1 built get the heaviest barrel you can put on it .and have the but stock filled with mercury recoil reducers. That rifle will hurt you if it weighs less than 13 - 14 pounds. Lever guns 50 is one of a very few people that can handle that recoil. I had a sharps 50 2 1/2 so I am speaking from experience. They can and will knock you out of a deer stand .been there done that
Im curious, im looking at getting Turnball to build me a 50-110 1886' If so would you be willing to share your smokeless load data? I'd be willing to make a donation to show my appreciation and keep supporting your channel. Cheers
Isn't that pistol grip '86 considered a '71? I'm not sure of the difference except the stock shape. The gun models are the year they came out (1886 = '86) so where did 71 come from? Maybe I'm wrong about it being called that? I thought that first 405 went through. It looked like the log blew out in the back. All of those are great cartridges, but that 50-110 is really something! Wow!
The receiver is the same on the 71 and the 86, this is the 1886, The pistol grip on the 86 is longer and not quite as sharp as the one on the 71, because I already checked to see if you could put a butt stock from a 71 on the 86 and it’s not even close to fitting
That 1895 is basically the same gun the Russians used yes? Though in 7.62. And damn that 405 is amazing. (Edit: I'm seeing online that 7.62 and 405 are one and the same so I'm a bit confused)
World may come to an end , guess what caliber and rifles I pick. Simplicity, nockdown power, reliability, ease of use, Need I say more...! 👍🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟👍👏👏👏 🌎⛵🐬✨🌠🌌❇
@@huckstirred7112 Yes. But is the 45-90 case head webbing strong enough ? Or is Bertram Brass in 45-90 a bit soft intended for black powder pressure only ? When I shot a 600 gr Barnes solid nitro powder load equivalent to 458 Win Mag out of my Browning 1885 Octagonal Barrel, a new falling block, I had a bruise on my shoulder, and upon seeking to reload the Bertram Brass case, the new primer fell out, the pocket having swelled. No issues in my 458 Lott Ruger bolt gun.
@@perarduaadastra873 I can't remember if Betram is drawn or turned . A drawn case is far stronger than turned . Not the brass necessarily is the problem .But the case design itself . Because of the hot loads put through the Ruger number 1 , they thickened the case head so much it reduced it's volume a considerable amount . I wish I could remember who made the brass , but there are companies that make drawn 45/90 brass with the heavy web of modern 45/70 . I would suspect any drawn 45/90 brass has the heavy head of modern 45/70 . Tiny measurements are a big deal . Everything from bore diameter , chamber length , all the way down to the ogive of the bullet effects pressure . What is light in one rifle . may blow primers in another . Different brass has different volume . Measure everything neck thickness is critical . Measure that even in brand new cases of any caliber . A thick neck will pinch the bullet causing massive pressure spikes Never start at max load , always work up slowly . Measure case volume by filling the case with water then weigh it . There are so many variables . Bertram brass maybe a turned case . If it is drawn brass You are way above 60,000 pounds of pressure
Out of all the 45 cal bullets either hard cast or jacketed you have tested, which one bullet would you depend your life on against a charging Grizzley that has a steady diet of steroids, drinking water out of a mercury filled pond it's whole life and a bad tooth? Out of a 45-70 or 45-90.
Musser's Bows, Boats and Science Channel there’s two ways you can order one from Turnbull or you can get an 1886 and have it re-barreled by Winchesterbarrel’s
The 405 and 45's are definitely powerful cartridges, but that 50-110 is in another class altogether. I still cannot get over how much it can do. Amazing! Love them lever guns. Thanks for the great video. Stay safe.
It can definitely do a lot but, I wouldn't down play the 405 or 45-90. 405 with modern powder, can shoot 400 grain solids at 2080 fps, becoming a lever action 450/400 nitro express, and 45-90 can shoot 450 grain solids at 2150, becoming a slightly weaker 458 win mag lever action.
Remember how the 50-110, even with all that impressive energy and speed, couldn't penetrate the wood as easily as the 405? And that was basically factory ammo speeds, not loaded up to 2,500 fps+. Sectional density is a gigantic factor in taking down the biggest dangerous game such as elephant, and shooting the right sectional density bullets at a high enough velocity, is where 50-110 suffers. Especially with solid bullets, as they're a lot longer than lead, hence why you have to use 450 grain solids in the 45-90, instead of the optimal 500. Eats too much powder space.
You make some very good points and I am not trying to downplay any of the other cartridges. I have a 416 Rigby, 45/70, 45/90 and a 458 win mag. They are all quite impressive and capable of taking the larger game animals. Then I look at my 505 Gibbs... There are just some cartridges that somehow require respect. 😉 All I am saying is that in a lever gun, I think the 50-110 is one that needs respect.
@@rickycrazyhunter8530 Those are some nice guns there, amigo. I'm a big fan of big bores, and love all of them but, I tend to see that the smaller 40 cals tend to be under rated a lot. I see your point though. Holding a 12+ lbs double rifle also gives off the same kind of aura.
The .50-110 is just the cat’s meow by any measure. Between finding/ building one of those & a 1886 or Model 71 in .45-90 AND something I had wanted before I ever discovered your channel: a Model 95 in .405 Winchester, one of Teddy Roosevelt’s favorite big game rifles and he took them to Africa multiple times. I first saw the.405 Winchester on another favorite channel- North61, fellow with great hunting rifles and experience and emphasizes lots of range practice and testing different loads with what you’re planning on hunting with that season, which was an “Aha!” moment for me. I’ve got what I think is about the best rifle & cartridge made: a ‘48/‘49 Model 71 in .348 Winchester that my Dad bought around 1952. It’s just flawless. I can blame the North61 fella for the money I can’t afford for a.405 Model 95. But I told the Missus I’d have to blame you us being poorer once I find a Model 1886 in .45-90 or get converted to a.50-110.🤣 Jokes aside, thanks for the tricks and tips and entertaining videos!
Glad you found the channels. There’s a lot of videos on those two cartridges.
As a kid I'm the early 60's my neighbor had an 1886 in 50-110 he hunted Alaskan brown bears with in the 50's. I got to shoot it when I was about 12. My dad had an 1886 in 45-90 but swapped in for a 30-40 Craig original carbine and a S&W lemon squeeze.
So nice to FINALLY see him shoot the 50-110 at full speed instead of only showing each shot in slow-mo.
That 1886 is like a big 1892. Cool rifles. All of them. Those cicadas are loud. Lol
Cool comparison man, I think the penetration you got with the .405 there is exactly what Winchester had in mind when they designed it, nicely done. 👌
Thank you
If I ever do decide to branch out from black powder into early smokeless powder 1890s pieces, the Winchester 1895 certainly looks sweet. I regret giving away my .30-40 Krag brass because I think I the Winchester 1895 had a clambering in that cartridge.
Yes the military version was chambered in 30-40 Krag it also came in several black powder numbers 38-72-275 WCF 40-72-330 WCF
Yes, it did. I have originals in .30-40, .35 WCF and .405 WCF. Incidentally, you can make brass for either the .35 or .405 from .30-40 cases. They end up a bit short, but since they headspace on the rim and the 1895 uses a box magazine and a crimp is not needed, they work fine if you seat bullets to the normal OAL for the .35 or .405.
Oddly enough the first two chamberings in the 1895 were black powder cartridges....38-72 and .40-72. The .405 is really nothing more than a jazzed up .40-72 with a larger rim diameter to prevent it being fired in a .40-72, other wise case dimensions are nearly identical.
Yes, the 1895 was chambered in .30-40. These will often be marked ".30 US" or ".30 Army" and some later ones are marked .30-40. If you find a rifle marked ".30 Gov't" that is actually a .30-03 which can also fire .30-06. Later the .30-03 was dropped and the .30-06 took it's place.
They are great rifles.
FWIW the Japanese made copies are excellent quality. Really outstanding quality. They have been made in .30-40, .30-06 and .405. I have one in .30-06 and actually shoot it more than my originals. If you are looking for a shooting/hunting rifle I would seek out one of the copies.
Not many people know it, but more than half the original 1895s were chambered in 7.62x54R and sold to Russia who used them in WW1, the Russian Revolution and the Russian Civil War. I would bet more than a few of them were used in WW2 also. They used to be fairly common on the surplus market here in the US.
@@garyK.45ACP Thanks for that very nice information!
...my late wife bought me an 1895 chambered in .30-40 Krag back in 2008 or so...I've yet to shoot it - only have 20 rounds and the brass is pretty much unobtanium although I do have a st of dies...
Thanks for the knowledge about these cartridges an showing these gorgeous Winchester's !!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for including the .405 1895. I had never seen that one on UTube.
No problem!
I'm interested in exactly how powerful the .45 can be with 70 or even 90, BUT! with Rowland style rounds which can provide 40% increase in velocity over the .45 ACP. The Rowland being a more densely packed .45 ACP(ish) sized round called a .460 Rowland. In other words, I wanna see something like a .460-70 or .460-90 Rowland tested against some targets, especially combat armor. In your other video you tested the .45-70 and .45-90 against combat armor, and that's the closest answer to my question that I've been able to find. But I really want to know if the .45 can actually compete directly with rifle rounds with Rowland's style of increased compression.
I know this is not at all what you do, but I'm super curious.
By the way, this question is for an indie video game I'm working on.
It's a sci-fi that takes place on a planet with much denser atmosphere, and lower gravity than Earth, which results in riffle rounds losing accuracy because the wind has significantly more pressure and mass to blow them off-target. The air pressure + wind pressure is almost half as bad as shooting into calm water. Meanwhile on Earth if you fire rifle and pistol rounds into water, you end up with the pistol rounds, especially the .45 remaining relatively straight trajectory while the riffle rounds deform and curve in under 3 feet of water. There are a couple of slow motion videos of this on TH-cam. Anyway, the nature of this extra-terrestrial atmosphere makes round nosed, high mass projectiles more accurate, so they end up leaning into .45 caliber. Makes a lot of sense when you look at the round nose of a submarine which reduces internal vibrations. For other reasons involving the nitty gritty details of the story, they end up re-manufacturing old, cheap, fast, and simple stamped steel firearms to outfit their army as fast as possible. So they end up making a variant M3A1 grease gun for .45-70 and relying on it as a sort of assault rifle. At least, that's the plan for now. The nut shell reason being that they had no military before being invaded, and they had to use their futuristic 3D printing tech to very rapidly create assembly line machinery for outfitting their civilian militias. As I learn more I might adjust some of these details to make them work better.
Very interesting concept, higher velocity doesn’t work well in water, as you can see in my lower velocity test the 50-110 at a velocity of about 1600 feet a second penetrated 17 jugs of water, The same bullet if sped up to 2350 FPS will only penetrate three, A lot of rifle rounds push to over 4000 FPS the plastic nose or even the lead tip will start burning and you can see ring some smoke all the way down to the target, So in more dense air would probably cause any bullets over 2000 feet a second to do the same thing because of friction, so I’m guessing you would need really heavy well rounded bullets traveling at a slower velocity,, The lower gravity will probably allow the bullet to fly farther without being pulled to The planet surface, thereby a slower moving bullet may have just as long of a point blank range as one on earth have a higher velocity, generally arrows will penetrate water better than bullets, i’ll study it out and see what I can come up with
@@Leverguns50 Oh man, thanks! All my stuff is coming from pure theory since I only own an airsoft gun. Haven't gotten a real firearm yet. So to hear you confirm my ideas is huge. If you end up doing some tests in this direction, I'd be over the moon. I'm planning to have a Codex in my game that explains everything about the why, when, where and how of the sci-fi because I love hard sci-fi style. I was already going to provide links to TH-cam videos in the Codex leading to info on things like the M3A1 and such on various channels like Forgotten Weapons, and I can't tell you when it will release but I want to link to your videos too. This will be paired up with a ton of other TH-camrs like heavy science channels and such.
What tangsight our you using , does that 86 have the tang safety?
Good old boys in the back country shooting big calibers. Chickens crack me up. I love it.
Thank you
Great comparison 👍 Thanks for your time making this video, and all your others.
Thanks for watching!
Yep. I knew which one would come out on top and I still watched to the end.
"That's a log splitter". Not like all the previous shots didnt weaken the integrity of the log.
instaBlaster
Another great vid comparison. I had a 1895 years ago in 30-06. If it was a 405 I think I would still have it.
I like them all. Great rifles and cartridges. Another great vid👍🏻
Thank you
That 50-110 would definitely make splitting firewood alot more fun! Great video my Friend. Really enjoyed it!
Glad you enjoyed it, appreciate your views and comments
My small Filipino wife prefers my Win 94 in 356 but I usually grab my 405. But my Marlins in 356 and 450 accept top mounted scopes. Great for low light conditions.
Thanks for sharing
Can you please say what model Williams peep sight you bought for the 1886.
Thank you
It would interesting to see the bullet drop on each cartridge too !
Thanks !
I had a Remington rolling block that would blow primers with anything more than very mild loads . It was a original action the barrel was numeric barrel after 6 moths of shooting .I slugged the bore for a custom mold and groove diameter was 452 ! With a custom 500 grain 452 mold it shot beautiful . Always slug your bore
That action was 1864 . That says allot on the strength of these actions
Wow a new way to put up some firewood! lol Thanks for sharing brother!
Great reviews all ways! I have learned a lot from your reviews. Oh to be young in these days with all the info available. I never new there was such a thing as a 50-110 great round.
Thank you so much I appreciate you, I remember the first time I found out about that big old 50-110 cartridge my dad bought a reloading manual called Winchester lever legacy and that dude shot a grizzly bear with it very impressive
Until you try to purchase them. They run about at least $5 bucks a piece. No hunting beer cans with those...
In the 405 Winchester, what other deer hunting bullet do you recommend other than the Barnes 300gr tsx?
For deer hunting I would probably recommend really tough 41 caliber, pistol bullets like solid copper hollow points or something, as the 300 grain bullet is a pretty tough bullet is more made for a bigger game
I really want one of those 50-110.
That is why Teddy loved the 405.👍👍🇺🇲🤓
Thank you
That's crazy that it split that log. Now go put some ice on your shoulder. I'm sure it needs it. Great video. Thanks
Actually my shoulder didn’t hurt, I thought it might be sore the next day but it wasn’t, you notice I didn’t benchrest any of that, whatever reason shooting from the bench is a whole different ball game.
@@Leverguns50 Yes it is. I absolutely hate bench shooting.
@@Leverguns50 I hope you get to see this. I just got ahold if my first Lever gun. A miroku 94. And i found one in 38-55 to boot. I just had to have one. Your videos inspired that purchase tremendously. And i shot exactly 2 255 grain at 1600 fps loads off the bench before deciding that wasnt the best approach. LMAO i cant imagine trying that with those big boys. The curved steel butt plate is not friendly off a bench.
They work great for getting the chickens riled up!
Beautiful and powerful!👍🏾😀❤️🇺🇸
Thank you
SUPER GREAT VIDEO SIR
Thank you so much
50-110 log splitter! 2788 fps. Wow!
Thank You for The Show!
Christ bless!
Wonder if a Winchester in 50-110
is cheaper than a log splitter?
There was also a video on a 600 grain load going out 1340 feet per second from a 18.5-in barrel however it did not say what pressure is it was at because it was pounding the hell out of the guy's shoulder😅
Although generally I like your videos, I really think that more of an effort should been made to try to get bullet weights that were closer to the same BC. As you stated before the 405 with the longer bullet had a better BC. So although the video was fun to watch oh, I don't really see the relevance in penetration. I always like to see something with lever guns I just love them.
Bc makes no difference short range sectional density does 300 is heavier weight for cal in 405 than 300 grain 4570
What bullet, brand and weight, would you recommend for hunting all deer species and wild hogs in a 45/70 or 450 marlin up to 200yds or so? Currently I’m using a Rem 405gr around 1950fps.
I would probably go with a 350 grain hawk bullet
Those cartridges laying side by side looked like mini-missiles. Outstanding, thank you. Powerful firearms for dangerous game. Look up t-rex & give us your take on that bad boy. Watched people shooting it that should not have been. Again thank you for sharing your passion with us!
Thank you I’m glad you enjoyed it
New to your channel and watching your videos on the 50-110. What is the twist of your barrel if you don't mind me asking? I'm a bit surprised it could stabilize a 700 grain bullet. -Tutt
You wouldn't think it would it's a 1 in 28”twist, the new one on building is going to have a one in 20”
@@Leverguns50 Thank you for the prompt reply! What is the length of the 700 grain bullet? That 600 hundred grain Hawk bullet I think is perfect so far!!! -Tutt
@@Leverguns50 I think maybe 1:20 too fast. Measure the length of the bullets you want to use using multiple twist calculators with a lead bullet (they are all based on Greenhill's formula but modified some for velocity and what metal you are using to make the bullet) You can pick the right twist then with not much difficulty. Good on you for what your doing! -Tutt
Of those three loads, if i was hunting large dangerous game, I would be using the 405 for the penetration. The 45 and 50 caliber cartridges would be much better on large dangerous game with heavier bullets that would penetrate better.
Big medicine
Awesome! 50-110 log splitter! Would love to see this test with 480-530 grain 45-90’s and 500-600 gain 50-110’s. Great sectional density and coefficient. Man that 50-110 is a butt stomper huh!!!
Sounds like an idea I got a tree I need to cut down
They are all a beast and so sharp to look at. Now those are rifles👍
Thank you
GREAT VIDEO!!! GOOD INFORMATION!!😀👍💯
Thank you
That split log looks like a termite hamburger! 50-110 is a beast!
Thank you, certainly surprised me
Instant sawdust.
“TRACER Ammo”. Try reloading the 50-110 with some “tracer” using pulled tracer heads from surplus 50 BMG ammo, unless you can find a source of already pulled or new tracer heads.
That would certainly be interesting, i’ve shot some shotgun tracers, but I never thought about putting one on one of the bullets for the 50-110
Lot of energy there
Where are you getting your smokeless load data for the 45-90 & 50-110?
45/90 , " If you use drawn brass " you can use 458 magnum load data just start low and work up
As a good example to others ,when you lay a rifle down open the actions , enjoy the shooting
The 1895 Is A Beast But The 1886 In 50-110 Always Smokes Them All 🥵😎😊👍🏼
You’re right about that, when I made it, I just wanted to be at least as powerful is a hot loaded 45-70, there was no information to go on, when it come to smokeless powder loads for a modern Version of the 50-110 WCF, in fact the first cartridges I had for it were necked up 348 cartridges I got from Buffalo arms, shortly after that Buffalo arms and other companies got Starline to start making brass for it, The brass last really good probably more than 40 shots per cartridge,
Leverguns 50 I’m Saving My $$$ Up For a 50-110 1886 You Have Me Sold on That For Sure 😀😊👍🏼
lots of people piss and moan about low sectional density of the 300 grain 405 . But fail to realize they have almost the same sectional density as a 180 grain 308
I Love The 50-110 Winchester 😀😀😀😮👍🏼
Great video brother as always and be safe and GOD BLESS y’all Amen 🙏
Thank you, hi appreciate you coming by and taking the time to comment, God bless you brother
Have an original 95 in .405, shot quite a few moose n elk with it, there is zero blood trailing required, dead on arrival within a few feet. Love that big ol bitch.
We haven’t signed anything with this one, but it’s good to know how well it should do, I don’t really care about blood trailing stuff, although I am an excellent tracker, tracking is time consuming i’d rather spend that time doing something else
@@Leverguns50 Tracking is required if you do any amount of hunting.
The 405 is my choice because the 1895 doesn't jam...it's not a tube feeder. T.R. chose it for close work on lions and because he could rely on it. Other lever actions jam.
My pa never let me shoot prone... he was all about fast target acquisition, he was macv sog 65-6
The faster on target the faster in the freezer, or in some cases the better you survive
50 110 is massive!
That log was good idwa! Thank you., Greetings from Finland ✌️🙋♂️🇫🇮
Thank you 👍
But is there any rifle which currently in production chambered in. 50-110
Turnbull still makes them and also Winchesterbarrels can re-barrel an action for you
Good morning. I enjoy your videos very much. I own a few 1886 chambered in 45-70 myself. I see the 1886 chambered in 45-90 you used has a peep sight. I am looking for one to install on one of mine. What model number is it? Thank you.
Not sure I just went to midway USA and looked up a Williams peep sight for a 1886 Winchester
@@Leverguns50 Thanks! I called Williams and ordered the FP-71. Did you install your's? If so, have you done a video on it? Thanks again for your interest in Winchesters. Nice to see!
Both are great designs. BUT, in windy, sandy conditions. Which action, when opened will , most likely get sand or dust inside the action.?
I read somewhere that the 405 was president Roosevelts favorite hunting rifle
Yes it was
I wonder if the .405 bullet made it through because the former cartridges weakened the log?
LG 50 great video!!! monsters!!!!
Thank you
I inherited several original M1895 and M1886 rifles from my grandfather. The 1886s are in .45-70 and .33 WCF, the 1895s in .30 Army (.30-40) .35 WCF and .405 WCF. I also added a Japanese made 1895 reproduction in .30-06 and a Japanese made reproduction 1886 in .45-70.
I favor the Model 1895 action, just because of the versatility it gives in bullet types. Also, because it is a box magazine, it allows me to do things like making .35 and .405 cases from .30-40 brass. Even though they are a bit short, I seat bullets out to the recommended OAL and a crimp is not needed in the box magazine. A good firm fit in the case is all that is needed. This lets me save my more expensive .35 and .405 cases for "serious" loads. My practice loads are made up of reformed .30-40 cases and cast bullets in both cartridges.
Likewise, for the .33 WCF I form cases from .45-70 brass.
I wish I had one of the Japanese made .50-110s, though, I have to admit.
Wow do you have a Lotta nice guns, I always dreamed of getting a 33 Winchester. I talk to the people over at Buffalo arms and they said they had some reformed brass for the 405 Winchester, are used to use reformed brass from 348 for the 50-110 WCF
@@Leverguns50 I do indeed. I am the beneficiary of two great gun guys, my grandfather and father and having been fortunate enough to have the resources to add to my collection myself over 50 years. I still add guns regularly. I just got a super deal on a Winchester Model 63 this week. ($285) I already had one but couldn't pass on this deal, so it will be trading stock.
I have some Buffalo Arms .405 cases I bought in the 90s and I have quite a few boxes of Hornady 300 gr. bullet factory ammo I bought about 20 years ago. But for general practice I just use the slightly short fireformed .30-40 cases and cast bullets. I use 5 grs. Red Dot powder, fill the case to the mouth with cornmeal (no wad needed, just fill the case) and then I push a block of paraffin wax into the case mouth and twist it off to seal the case. Take them outside and fire them. They are VERY LOUD and blast cornmeal all over the place, so do it well away from your house. But they perfectly form the cases (either .35 or .405) then just load the bullets to the regular OAL and ignore the crimp grooves.
The .33 WCF was actually the only chambering for the 1886 in the last few years they were made. I have seen quite a few for sale. It is certainly adequate for deer, bear, boar, etc. It is about the same ballistics as a .35 Remington. Cases are easy to make, and bullets are easy to get but you have to be careful with your bullet choices as most are made for .338 Magnums. And you have to be mindful of where the crimp cannelure is. I use cast bullets for most of my shooting with this rifle.
gary K that’s awesome thanks for sharing the information. I’ll have to try that with the 30-40 brass
@@Leverguns50 Works good to make .35 Whelen from .30-06 also, but now that .35 Whelen has been a factory cartridge since the late 80s, it really isn't necessary anymore. But if one had a bunch of surplus .30-06 laying around...
gary K I wonder about trying that cornmeal trick with the 348 to make it 348 improved
Something I don't think anyone has mentioned yet, is that those 405 Winchester loads are basically the factory load, 300 grains at 2200 fps. They can get a hell of a lot faster than that.
Regardless, great video. If you ever want to know the load for 400 grain woodleigh solids at 2050-2080 fps, just let me know.
I do want to load up the 405 lot hotter, but I’m starting with the hottest load with Hodgdon website With a powder I already have
@@Leverguns50 I see. I have a buddy that has a pressure tracer II, that he uses to test and develop loads. He found that n133 produces much lower pressures than the other powders he was using, and that's the powder we use to shoot the 400 grain solids.
Let me know please I have a 405 in ruger 1 fighting with do i rechamber it? 3000 fps with the b 410 bullet has to flatten trajectory out
Super first!
You’re still quick on the draw, thanks for watching
You have featured the 50-110 in many videos. Do you know how many rounds you have fired through it so far?
More than 1500 but less than 4000, I have taken 14 white tail deer and one 502 pound feral hog with it. Thank you for watching
How effective was she on that big porker? Have you tried out any of Barnes solid copper expanding bullets? I use the tipped TSX in my 06 and I've recovered perfectly expanded rounds from the loose clay/earth backstop at the range and have never had a failure to exit on whitetails even on shoulder hits.
Nothing like shooting an Elephant Gun😆😂 Those moved the shoulder back pretty good. Things were flyin
Thank you
Thank you
Midwest Farmer LeDuc you’re welcome
That’s energy now
How’s the hog hunting going?
Great video, my “brother-in-Christ! Next test maybe you could shoot into a piece of dry (or wet) Red or White Oak. I used to do this when I lived up in the backwoods of northwest Wisconsin in the later 1970’s. Used mostly my .58’s & 45/70. That wood was like “Granite”!!! The .58 Minnie balls would expand to about 1 & 1/4”! They may not penetrate a lot, but the “knockdown power” was tremendous! Wonderful days as a bachelor!!! “Gesundheit” & pass da possum belly & hawg jowl poleaze!
Wow it just put a split in that log and one when thru to that plastic jar so i guess that's strong gun & bullet love the video keep them coming liked 126 thanks for sharing with us
Thank you for showing use your beasts of rifles
You’re welcome
Boom 💥.. 50-110 Is a sick round
Thank you
Well I know that the Winchester 1886 I have a magazine called leverguns Winchester's introduction of the 1886 stated this the 1886 was the only rifle that could sustained continuous firing with 500 grain bullets and withstand them the 405 Green from what I've read was used in the Springfield trapdoor rifles for the cavalry of 405 grain bullets
That's more fun than a hydraulic splitter!
Thank you, you been moose hunting yet?
@@Leverguns50 Yes..4 days on the river, I hope to get back out for a few more days.
That’s awesome
It come out?
There was a 4575 and a 4560 I believe Tom Selleck used the 4560 in the model 18 76 believe I think it was the bicentennial model
Only in this matchup would the fiesty 45-70 be a "45 Short"
When I went to load them I had to double check make sure they wasn’t Hornady brass because it looks so short,
I remember when 45-70s were huge. Sometimes I have to remind myself it’s still is,
The length of that 405 kind of dwarfs everything.
Hunting elk or moose would you prefer using a 405 Winchester or a 45/90?
Either one of them would work equally well, I guess you would just have to look at the cool factor
Mrs Levergun50: Honey we need more firewood.
Levergun50 ( as he grabs a jug of powder and a box of bullets) with pleasure my dear any time
For recoil management, I once had a Ruger No.1 with a butt pad called a “Counter-Coil”. It was a small hydraulic shock absorber, which “exploded” leaking all the oil out, when I subjected it to 9,500 ft lbs of muzzle energy from a 9 1/2 lb Ruger No.1 in 577 3” Nitro Express.
I had wanted to shoot cost effectively to experience 585 Nyati power levels. And I worked up loads in this 577 3” Nitro Express Ruger No.1 looking for any signs of a cratered primer or tight extraction, and found none. Though, the case rim strangely would come to a stop on the top of the block, upon otherwise easy ejection with lighter loads.
The rifle would torque through 45 degrees to the left upon firing the 9,500 ft lb load, and come out totally of one’s left hand unless fingers were wrapped over the top of the barrel. Despite the muzzle brake, the recoil would take the rifle to a great extent also out of one’s shoulder. I did not work out the ft lbs of recoil energy.
Upon reloading the cases, I found the case mouth would not align with the sizing dye. The case head was no longer at 90 degrees to the case wall. 🤭
I then realised this was why the maximum 9,500 ft lb loads were binding on the top of the block at the case rim after an otherwise faultless ejection.
Essentially, there is not enough threaded shank diameter on a 577 barrel in the Ruger No. 1 to cope safely with a 9,500 ft lb load, and the barrel had “flexed” at the threaded shank at the action interface substantially during this recoil. Fortunately there was no damage to the gun or to me or bystanders.
Made by SSK, and chrome plated in a soft blue hue, with an integral muzzle brake, it has British Birmingam Proof Marks.
The gun was later stolen and sent to the USA by the U.K.’s greatest ever fraudulent gun dealer, who was convicted and jailed.
So..... somewhere in the USA someone has my stolen rifle, a 577 3” Nitro Express Ruger No.1 by SSK, in a blue brushed soft chrome, a broken Counter-Coil, integral muzzle brake and no front sight facility, as scoped only rifle.
Life.
Per Ardua ad Astra That’s very interesting, but also sad that your gun got stolen and even worse it was sent out of the country and stolen property
How telescope 45 90 &45 70?
Morning brother this will be interesting
Thank you
I have both .45-70 (1886) and .405 (1895) rifles. I think the .405 is superior for most purposes. One caveat...I do not handload my cartridges to the levels you do, though I have both original and Japanese made modern versions of both. I also have original Model 1895s in .30-40 and .35 WCF and a Japanese reproduction in .30-06.
I will not try to compare either to the .50-110 the way you load them. At least not in terms of raw power.
The .405 offers better sectional density (which equates to penetration) in any comparable bullet weight than the .45-70 and offers the use of pointed bullets for better ballistic coefficient, though, admittedly, I do not consider either to be "long range" cartridges for hunting. (Yes, I know some people use them at known ranges out to 1000 yds and get great results)
I handload for all my firearms, I have a good stock of .405 brass (and usable brass can be made from .30-40 Krag, a bit short, but seat the bullets out and everything is OK, they work fine in a box magazine) I use cast bullets for most shooting in both cartridges.
Just my opinion. If a person does not handload, I will concede the .45-70 would be easier to live with.
Sounds like you have a wonderful collection, I think the 35 Winchester would be an awesome deer cartridge, especially in the 95 Winchester super smooth action, thank you for sharing
@@Leverguns50 I inherited the originals from my grandfather, I added the reproductions to take some of the wear off the originals.
Yes, the .35 WCF is an excellent deer/bear/boar/elk/moose cartridge. It is roughly equal to the .358 Win., a little under the power of the .35 Whelen. My grandfather, father and I have killed many deer, black bear and wild hogs with that rifle. MUCH easier on the shooter than the .405 WCF. Recoil is about on par with a .30-06.
I bought a big supply of brass for it years ago from Bertram, which I used for hunting loads. For practice, I usually use much more common (and cheap) .30-40 cases which I fireform with a light charge of Red Dot powder, fill the case with cornmeal and jam a block of paraffin into the case mouth to plug it closed. Works perfectly. These fireforming loads are very LOUD and I only shoot them outdoors in an open area.
Then I seat the bullets to the normal OAL for the .35 WCF and ignore the crimping groove (if any) as a crimp is not needed in the Model 1895 box magazine.
My favorite bullet for hunting loads is the Sierra 225 gr. SBT
For practice, I use cast bullets with a Lyman 358315 with pure wheelweight metal these cast about 200 gr. with lube and GC. I have also used 158gr. SWC for handgun loads with light powder charges for my sons when they were younger, or my grandchildren. They can shoot Great-Great Granddad's rifle with virtually no recoil.
where is ammo available for the .405?
All the people I’ve talked to said there’s very little if any ammo available for any hunting around
@@user-xy9sp8hg9n See my notes above for handloading. Factory ammo I have not seen for some years. But, to be honest, I haven't looked. I have a lifetime supply of factory ammo and hunting bullets for handloading. It used to be fairly common and I laid in a good stock or Hornady hunting loads years ago. I use cast lead bullets for practice. Cast lead bullets are also fine for shooting deer or boar. I have killed several deer with .405 WCF and .35 WCF rifles loaded with cast lead bullets.
Stay tuned? I wouldn’t miss it for the World. I just got my ‘95 (hangs head) in 30 Army…
That’s a cool caliber too you know
@@Leverguns50 Yeah… I know. But compared to the Lion Killers you were shooting, it would seem like a pea-shooter! P.S. would the 50-110 have spilt the log if other bullets hadn’t drilled part way through? My shoulder hurt just WATCHING you fire them!
I have a maruko 4570 in an 1886 trying to convert it to a 5110 the gunsmith says you can't do a takedown . He is one of your conversions in a takedown
It is and the originals come and take downs as well, however I didn’t up for the interrupted threads as most takedowns have, because I wanted a little bit more meat around the cartridge, however it’s probably not necessary since most pistol chambers that take 65,000 psi are thinner
www.gunbroker.com/item/913858575
Where can I find a 50-110 ? I have looked around on gunbroker and can’t find anything that shoot it.
The only ones I know of are available from Turnbull , and if you get an 1886 Winchester you can have Winchesterbarrels re-barrel it for you
You can have any good gunsmith rebarrle any 45/70 to the 50 110
The 45/90 is basically a 458 magnum with a rim . So ask yourself would I actually enjoy a 50/110 . Because if people are honest very few people would. If you do have one built, get the heaviest barrel you can get on it ,and have the stock filled up with mercury recoil reducers
If you do have 1 built get the heaviest barrel you can put on it .and have the but stock filled with mercury recoil reducers. That rifle will hurt you if it weighs less than 13 - 14 pounds. Lever guns 50 is one of a very few people that can handle that recoil. I had a sharps 50 2 1/2 so I am speaking from experience. They can and will knock you out of a deer stand .been there done that
Nice! Peace To All!
Thank you
Im curious, im looking at getting Turnball to build me a 50-110 1886' If so would you be willing to share your smokeless load data? I'd be willing to make a donation to show my appreciation and keep supporting your channel.
Cheers
I’ll share it with you some loads and help you get started just sent me an email email address is in the about page
If you get them to build you wan tell them I sent you thank you
Leverguns 50
Email sent 👍
Isn't that pistol grip '86 considered a '71? I'm not sure of the difference except the stock shape. The gun models are the year they came out (1886 = '86) so where did 71 come from? Maybe I'm wrong about it being called that?
I thought that first 405 went through. It looked like the log blew out in the back. All of those are great cartridges, but that 50-110 is really something! Wow!
The receiver is the same on the 71 and the 86, this is the 1886, The pistol grip on the 86 is longer and not quite as sharp as the one on the 71, because I already checked to see if you could put a butt stock from a 71 on the 86 and it’s not even close to fitting
@@Leverguns50 It's strange they would call them different models. They look the same to me?
@chris mclaughlin Interesting. I wondered what the difference was. They look the same to me.
450 at 2400. That's 458 lott. 500 nitro express 470 capstick 505 gibbs power. I HAVE to see a 450 at 2400
Hopefully the last round hit the log in a pristine location and not in a prior wound track.
That 1895 is basically the same gun the Russians used yes? Though in 7.62. And damn that 405 is amazing. (Edit: I'm seeing online that 7.62 and 405 are one and the same so I'm a bit confused)
Yes it is basically the same gun with a few modifications
Wonder if the 405 or 50-110 was ever offered in a win 1885 single shot? John Browning’s first rifle.
I think they were offered in the 1885
Ruger 1 I have one
Hehehe...I know you have the 405 headed with some Barnes X heads....Those copper solids smoke things dead
World may come to an end , guess what caliber and rifles I pick.
Simplicity, nockdown power, reliability, ease of use,
Need I say more...!
👍🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟👍👏👏👏
🌎⛵🐬✨🌠🌌❇
Thank you
THE50 110 JUST ABOUT REACHES M1A1 ABRAMS TANK MUZZLE VOLOCITY
👍🏻 thank you
Lever-action torpedo launchers.
Thank you
I guess these rifles could be reamed out to 458 Win Mag or 458 Lott, though no good reason.
the 45/90 is nothing more than a rimmed 458 magnum and reload data can be interchangeable
@@huckstirred7112 Yes. But is the 45-90 case head webbing strong enough ? Or is Bertram Brass in 45-90 a bit soft intended for black powder pressure only ? When I shot a 600 gr Barnes solid nitro powder load equivalent to 458 Win Mag out of my Browning 1885 Octagonal Barrel, a new falling block, I had a bruise on my shoulder, and upon seeking to reload the Bertram Brass case, the new primer fell out, the pocket having swelled. No issues in my 458 Lott Ruger bolt gun.
@@perarduaadastra873 I can't remember if Betram is drawn or turned . A drawn case is far stronger than turned . Not the brass necessarily is the problem .But the case design itself . Because of the hot loads put through the Ruger number 1 , they thickened the case head so much it reduced it's volume a considerable amount . I wish I could remember who made the brass , but there are companies that make drawn 45/90 brass with the heavy web of modern 45/70 . I would suspect any drawn 45/90 brass has the heavy head of modern 45/70 . Tiny measurements are a big deal . Everything from bore diameter , chamber length , all the way down to the ogive of the bullet effects pressure . What is light in one rifle . may blow primers in another . Different brass has different volume . Measure everything neck thickness is critical . Measure that even in brand new cases of any caliber . A thick neck will pinch the bullet causing massive pressure spikes Never start at max load , always work up slowly . Measure case volume by filling the case with water then weigh it . There are so many variables . Bertram brass maybe a turned case . If it is drawn brass You are way above 60,000 pounds of pressure
@@perarduaadastra873 A 458 magnum in a Lott , will always have lower pressure than the correct 458 magnum, do to length of throat
I wish you'd take up the challenge of seeing if those Garrett hard-cast .45-70 rounds will penetrate 7 ft of animal (or ballistic gel).
Which one of them? it’s about $100 for a box for their ammunition, I have hard cast bullets I can match velocities and see how much they’ll penetrate
@@Leverguns50 it says on the Garrett Ammo website which ones they guarantee. I've never seen a single reviewer take up that challenge.
@@Leverguns50 I am pretty sure it was the Hammerhead Exiter
Yes Vince lupo shot a cape buffalo in the forehead thru the spinal cord and out the rump no bullet recovered
Out of all the 45 cal bullets either hard cast or jacketed you have tested, which one bullet would you depend your life on against a charging Grizzley that has a steady diet of steroids, drinking water out of a mercury filled pond it's whole life and a bad tooth? Out of a 45-70 or 45-90.
how does one obtain 50-110?
Musser's Bows, Boats and Science Channel there’s two ways you can order one from Turnbull or you can get an 1886 and have it re-barreled by Winchesterbarrel’s