How Winchester Model 86 Overpowers M73 44-40
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.พ. 2021
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In this video I review the history of lever-actions and compare the famous Winchester M73 in 44-40 to the more powerful Winchester M86 in 45-70. By shooting firewood and comparing ballistic tables, I discover how much power they actually have.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
Produced by: @red11media
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely. - กีฬา
I love my AR’s and other modern guns. But there is just something about blued steel, walnut, and a manual action that can never be replaced.
Well said! 👍
A Falling Block Sharps in 45-70, 90, or 50-110
In addition that they are still effective after 125 years.
They shoot well, no huge recoil, accurate and powerful within 200 yards, but not a lot of small parts to mess with. Still like my AR though.
You got that right brother. I love my m4a1 clone but my marlin 30/30 and my bolt actions. Just something pleasing to the eye, so much heritage, and fun so much fun to shoot.
John Moses Browning,. The wizard of Utah! Greatest gunmaker ever!!
No doubt. Just watched Way of the Gun with Mr. Browning as the focus. So prolific. Truly the most amazing arms maker in history. I don't know if there is anybody else that can even compete. Half the Firearms I own owe their existence to J. M. Browning.
Amen brother!
Agreed john moses browning is the best gun desighner
*lord and savior
Watch your tongue
Since I'm left handed these rifles are a God send.Thanks Ron.
Ron: "Winchessserr"
Me: "I start speaking that dialect at 18°F"
Gets much colder and I barely talk at all!
@@RonSpomerOutdoors I know the feeling, sir. Thanks for another great video. Stay warm!
That was pretty good! In what part of Montana do you live?
I love my 1895. Got it's muzzle energy up to about 3,900ft-lbs to beat out my dad's 300WMG. But I mainly shoot blackpowder rounds now :D
1866 (yellow boy) was in 44 rimfire. 44-40 debuted with the 1873. You forgot to mention the 1876.
I really like the 1886 Winchester large bore repeater. Fine rifle.
325 FTX, totally different ballgame , with the 45/70. In a Marlin 1895
Agreed. That 325 FTX improves just about everything ballistic about the round compared to your "standard" Remington or Winchester ammo. But still doesnt break your shoulder or wallet like buffalo bore ammo
Amazing round, Hornady knocked it out of the park with this!
Forward ahead a bit and it still thrills me to bits getting into an elk herd with a 94 in .32 Special.
Cant get enough.
I had a Marlin lever in 44 magnum and I was surprised how much it kicked with a 230 grain bullet. It didn't hurt at first, but I learned not to plan on shooting more than about 30 rounds at one time, it's not the first one that gets you, but it does get you after awhile. I ended up with a sore shoulder that first time, next time I wore a recoil pad shirt for shooting. Having fired a .458 magnum at the range I can imagine what shooting the 45-70 with a 400 grain bullet would feel like in that 8 lb. rifle.
I highly recommend binoculars with 7x or 8x with a 50mm objective lens for the amount of light they collect. Great for the night sky too. I could see the Orion Nebula with a pair of 8x 50mm Celestron binos.
MANY deer, elk and men have fallen to the 44-40. Amazing round!
I believe it, if people take them with 44 mag the 44-40 is just a step lower. so do your part and it’ll do it’s part.
Hi Ron, I always enjoy your videos and this one brought back a memory from the late 1960's. I lived in the then Rhodesia and my father and I were gun nuts and hunters, especially big game. On the same day we split up on a hunt and by sheer chance both shot a Warthog, both of them in exactly the position that you shot your first one. I was using a .243 with 105grain bullets and the hog just dropped in its tracks stone dead. My father was using a .375 Magnum with 300grain soft nose and it raked through the hog and exited just like with yours, and the hog shot off and ran for over 100 yards before dropping!! The lesson we took from this was that for medium game Velocity if everything. We had a passion for English double barreled rifles and shotguns and built up a great collection. My favourite was a Charles Boswell in 450/400 and my dad's was a John Wilkes in 500 3"" Nitro Express. My Dad was an Agricultural Scientist but had such a reputation as a big game hunter that he was made and honorary Game Warden and we used to regularly get called in to deal with problem Elephant etc. I shot my first Elephant at the age of 15 using a Winchester model 70 in .375 Magnum. But Buffalo were the main attraction as they were regarded as the most dangerous of the big five and therefore the most exciting to hunt. Keep up with the great videos - I am over 70 now and haven't hunted in a long time, but your videos help bring back great memories. Cheers, Bruce Humphrey (from South Africa)
Bruce, it sounds as if you had one heck of a rich childhood. Lucky you! Where I grew up the only big game were Angus. I can recall the first wild deer we saw: a doe and twin fawns leaping through the July knee-high corn. No elephant. No buffalo. Cheers. Oh, that 243 incident? I've found that a frangible .243 bullet, even a 75-grain one, slipped into the chest cavity literally explodes, sending shrapnel through the heart lungs. Extremely quick demise.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Hi Ron, thanks so much for the reply. Yes, I did have a heck of a rich childhood being born and raised in the African bush. Our nearest town was 60 miles away and we didn't have electricity until I was 7. Elephant in the front garden and raiding the orchard, being woken up in the middle of the night with an uproar as a Leopard was trying to get through the veranda door to get at our dogs, and it was the mecca for the entire range of poisonous snakes with the Fitzsimmons Institute, who produced anti-venom, coming down twice a year to catch snakes. With the bush as my back garden I grew up very cautious and observant - Puff Adders in the loo, Black Mamba under my bed etc. I was lucky not to get bitten, but I did catch Bilharzia (I have had the treatment five times), Malaria and Hepatitis which left me with a lifetime of joint problems and not much stamina, to the point that I was rejected for Military service. I did a Doctorate in Environmental Science, and between undergraduate and post graduate worked for four years for Kings Sports in Durban. They were the biggest retailer and wholesaler of firearms in South Africa and I had a ball with lots of toys to play with and every weekend filled with hunting, clay pigeon shooting, combat pistol shooting and archery. I would love to have your email address as I would like to write more and send you some photos. Cheers, Bruce
First time viewer that has a passion for the old lever rifles as well as the 1873 Colt SAA .45 Long Colt. I have a Uberti 1862 Navy Henry Rifle .44-40 , bought it new in 1997. This past July I bought new a Uberti, EL PATRON Colt 1873 SAA .45 cal. Long Colt. And I'm not stopping there.
Thank You, Ron, for your wisdom. A'ho!
Id like to see a video like this on the savage 99. The history on them and what all the different letters mean.
They used to be dime a dozen. Wish I had one now.
Yes. I would like to see that too.
Same. The 300 Savage was and is a great round out to 300 yards.
And maybe a little info on reloading and ballistics.
Are the Savage 3030 Model 340 (B.A)
Lewis & Clark also carried "air rifles" on their expedition as well...fyi.
Great video as usual.
Yes indeed, Wm. Isn't that fascinating.?Quite powerful one, too. But so slow to recharge that they only did so in secret. Demonstrated its power to the natives to impress them, hinting that they had many more in the boats and their men could unleash them at any time.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors still amazes me how many history teachers still today ignore that amazing fact and L&C's reasoning.
Have to tell you, I really find myself looking forward to your videos because history fascinates me and "guns" were something both my parents taught me to enjoy.
Thank you for your efforts.
@@RenaissanceThinking L&C are dismissed because anyone who reads their journals has the idea of the noble savage dissolved.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Recharging the rifle's air flask took about a thousand pumps on a special hand pump.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors On the Giradoni, you had 30 shot before the pressure flask became depleted too much for useful firing. Yes, it definitely took awhile to charge it, about 1500 pumps on the air pump that was used to recharge it. The Austrian army infantry had 1 air flask in the rifle and 2 charged ones, with 80 rounds balls in metal tins and 20 in the rifle.
Ron, this was really a well done video. I love the Weatherwool jacket too, premium stuff. Ive got a bit of 45-70 time with Marlins, Winchesters, Sharps, Rollers, Springfield, and an Ruger No1. Ive carried my old 1886 Extra Lite into the woods bear hunting elk hunting and such. I like it. That old Ruger No1 is an nice piece of kit too. Mine can handle a load that will really wear you out shooting it and its brutal. Like near 458 win type brutal.
Thank you for making these videos Mr spomer. They are packed with great information. I really enjoy them!
Thanks Matthew.
Lewis an Clark also carried air rifles. The 1876 Winchester, I think, was probably the first serious, big game repeater. Killed the biggest buck of my life with an original 1886 Winchester in 45-90.
The North West Mounted Police(now the Royal Canadian Mounted Police)were armed with Winchester model 1876 44-75's, and Tom Horn was known to favour one in 45-65 I believe. Too bad it wasn't shown here.
Marlin guide gun, my favorate rifle.
Convenient, reliable,and kicks like a damn mule I love em as well partner ,I got 3 lever 45-70 and the GG barks the loudest and hits you the hardest by far but extremely convenient in the thickets. Cimmaron 1886 is a big long heavy work of art that is the softest shooting but it can get aggravating manuvering through thick brush.
Marlin 1895 SBL The gun of "Windy River'. ,never mind the kid show about dinosaurs. lol. Hollywood can still make a GREAT movie from $11 million with a great actor, using a great gun..IMO.
I’ve reloaded, shot and hunted with the 45-70 Guide Gun for 18yrs and love it’s light, accurate quickness in the swamps. What a load of fun!
Same here, got a Stainless the second year they were made. Big thump in close rules in the Fla. swamps for big hogs and trophy deer.
Personally I'm a huge fan of the 92. There might be some more powerful chamberings in different models, but nothing beats the 92 for a slick action.
Lewis & Clark were also notable for using the Girandoni air rifle on their expedition.
Yes they were. I bet that thing was something to pump up by the time they returned.
True that
@@russellkeeling9712 they used some kind of pump that attached to a wagon wheel. Looked it up a while back, but can't remember all, It was nearly as powerful modern PCPs.
I hunt in Illinois, and for deer we are limited to shotguns, Fortunately, these have evolved. I use a Savage 210F, the original version. It has a 24" rifled barrel. Using sabot slugs, it drives a 385-grain bullet, a Partition Gold, at about 1900 or 2000 fps (3" magnum). I get good accuracy out to 300 yards or more (the range I use goes out to 340 yards). With its 60deg bolt, my hunting colleagues often thought i was using a semi-auto. It is definitely a one shot kill, every time I have used it. Good thing too. Since the rounds cost $3 each. I take on shot before the season to make sure it is sighted in. Always right on at 100 yards. Love that gun. My mother-in-law gave me and my brother-in-law $500 dollars for our birthday, which was in the summer. We both bought new deer guns. The 210F and a Thompson-Center scope (2x7) cost almost exactly that. I still love that gun. Big bullet going about 2000 fps. A sure killer. Not much has changed.
The 45-70 is an excellent and versatile cartridge. I love the round and load and cast bullets for it. I shoot my 1895 at least 3-400 rounds a year. Lever actions and 45-70-it doesn't get much better than that
This was great. I'm really loving the quality content, you love what you do and it shows.
I think an episode all about the 450 Bushmaster and the 444 Marlin would be wonderful. For Big Game from Hog to Buffalo, and shots at or under 300 yards, they're just about perfect. Especially because you can load your WFN loads for 150 yard shots, your Hornady FTX for your longer range shots and Hardcasts for Bear Medicine. Great, flexible and very underrated. Especially the 444.
Anyways, thanks!
I agree, i love my 444 marlin!
That’s the thing a love about lever guns, all the cartridges are so versatile.
I have a .44 Magnum Lever action Winchester long barrel and I love that gun! lol I dropped a charging bear with it 2 years ago with one shot! Just awesome! And you look like a real hunter lol instead of prancing around with a all black AR princess gun lol
The Crescent Butt Pad is the Most Beautiful of All butt pads but for Big bore rifles seems to be the Most Painful! Thank You Ron, Always Love your Videos
Thanks for going over the lever guns. The Marlin 1895 guide gun is one of my favorites to handle and shoot.
Thanks Ron.
Cool comparison. Another neat one from the 1873 range was the 1873 Marlin 40-60. It was a "tweener" between 44-40 and the .45-70. It was used for some of the final Buffalo shooting days, because my great-great uncle was actually on the trains out west and used one. I still have it and load BP only loads for it on occasion. It's really close to a Winchester 40-65 in length and I have to use that brass now, because it was not produced after 1892. The neat thing that Marlin did was create the first small primer rifle cartridge, because as you know, the big negative with lever guns is that you have to use poor BC bullets with flat tips or round tips to avoid primer chain fires. Marlin created theirs with a small rifle primer, so that they could use slightly pointier bullets in the tubes. Unfortunately, it was overshadowed by the Winchester in terms of production. Here's a link to see the one I have if interested: (Picture: photos.app.goo.gl/VhZDBLUzNXeqEGNa7 & lh3.googleusercontent.com/Kys-dlc3ycSPXjFJdbVx0bN5fM2KuPSi68t6hX9DN0JRMvM19svTyICmLb2JwD9KxF6kTMZ-mG5f3KLZUtvvoJRPVt3g1wTvSwfrvw4SaVYol8DcsHsSXO8WPsgD9ws2vTIXglFF-J74lwC37r_Ic-h6l3JbY0tKYauspw1czM4i1Lla1tLfOZhAwGA676zVr1CsBG8zNQ66-SfAoiBUS9tELF4DqwITUfX8h_r6xinng1Yx1YySkDA_3cjG4Xl3Z6NsqG9Pxvv-l21te7d-e31iv9a-5dZr5PIEwXnBGuZG83C4zkbAsJf62Qv3hx6Mai1rtbqXDR_O4NhkPFngMHca5_ABuUCKIvUvBhGzWuUFejX5sX9-BegSiLFLWMMmADru_RIO_DNDjxw0xfjvpHzzfv5pKEECEq8iOos8WuDHrbX4NCQHbylpD3tCJeaBCNzB1FdwJng8hDfh_pETsJOeoJuy0v6PzOiJpQ819VA5VvN4nN7oTzsMvvsn0AtIu2wxvSmSc2fZPNgXcRVEwO2Y1PQmcSm3k1y-fczS_-BzFLqlRFKNEqDG8yf_TPAivLJjhd9RgBmWQg5bWd3as5BcWLyrx7-Y752kq1BqHK2Tuf15O1sYuPI9JuodIzm5gAYd68w5Tp5Gv1UuO_r6Op15vZt8cndFCQZsu3MVzrPOHr8I5JmHaZTudW5u=w1600-h1200-no?authuser=0) The uncle who shot it used it for thousands of rounds and the barrel is pretty shot out due to the constant slick of black powder cartridges going through it. You can still shoot to 50 yards or so, but accuracy isn't really there anymore. After he finished working out west, he came back to Michigan and was a game shooter for the railroad which ran between Grand Rapids, MI and Travers City, MI. He would shoot deer as they were moving and outriders would go pick it up and bring it to refrigerator cars for sale to the "crime syndicate" folks up near Travers City.
I also own a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun now and still shoot primarily .45-70 for deer hunting for a number of reasons, but I"m a hand loader and use 47 grains of Alliant Reloader7 powder with Hornady's 350gr. RNFP jacketed bullet and have terrific success (Picture: lh3.googleusercontent.com/tnB1O5qKDgf7eM1qZnfxR2iUIpXiB6NuRC4EP5MpyG3V9-rnH6nSRZrnvT9XAUH-mJ648mBCmmGnFFhWWSsIHxuwz9XOLOQKOTVQtDE_6jx6G3BDdZIVn1yTNrQCggE5zzbdmeS-FeMSeP4j8SqBOIA4EtCTdU9GdZOUtAiURXx9rP2C76JZ1Kc4EBxTNOd90oVMhV367YUfMWque-cuaCaO7LSbxgrXxuUWeCviSU_w_drN0fdpK5lLuVbd7yxUuDi8anraFZnE8TVZdUo_17vk6tnpx5d3kommcKNax2ul7x-K1OS6TMu1Axyzd6Vv-Zpj0sYVv3t-Fci-R4jlj1vV00z2D9NxY7qIkS7ksB7g7vS9oTAC5ROglivaYI-3sFufBHTyANKhM2y5Zvboz2DaI006MVHngFdlloootM6v1JPlM6IcOOqgmz2U2aOF2T6dql-rnhZB2_auPLJgo8VWBOLGETDIDStJUk-Xq2UHiEHDP7pobcSlLYAjhyfA47xmMYSJSaW3URgK0lk6V6Ubt5cYJnvyFHVRfTELhzh7r8ScQa4ORpsnOzF-SFIBngiiYH33lDJgkwg9ImTrDkxs5oO4rOtEuV8KB6p5oNnN97EA8tGWMl6H5HDSoQW67-StGPYUsaNjHo9exK9VstdJS8Gc8VCr-dsFuzH2t5ZKHOOeCn4N00h4lmiR=w619-h800-no?authuser=0). This has worked well in my .45-70 H&R Handi-Rifle and other .45-70's I've had. I had for a time an H&R Buffalo Classic which is a 32" barreled .45-70 version with a pretty crescent stock like your 1873 has (picture: lh3.googleusercontent.com/KWhmcRFaKmAPT3SeM0KuPznw1xfXYnbvH-tkaWwwTRNgWYFMKWKOprIQzfEm3_YYpbvpWaZcfSpgeizhN0o-qCOI1t-O1fS99-BSh1vGf1u2m5FFpHwVCih1d_7NAhS281rEa4WLDCXdkhSDbg56EY9uNuI6utg1SxZ72BMhwUECB_kjMj-O0WLnYZDCZ4fCDCYVrH_QUR2C8rae1TGKr8hfPuWv52gSAAWL4uGv1klSRmLTxMLsypD7MJUNzV0kPWfik5aAYAbzxijC60Q_G9RaNxUHJkuk8So9XiBYUoIZMBVagMSA33c_VyRk7oBYIZ_tkYrFzutP2cYTrWx27bZ456jgrosvxYmn0_5XiLO5YcnC9JmlkG7MHRyaq9ByZdHXEdeGDJLswfbPVWbNgvtjIphxeQVYR9JcnMNEUkrdzq8pHpvnTfpWvgzyAmCQR-JsQPt6lbHosz04XHjjoQbRKXC-m4Lx5NC7L3qnew8eQWVmmeno9dNN4AkipGGUb1FEZqCpwMZjtAzN3CB2K4t9HvwQd28N0NxtytxJliK8BKqELnaj76ZA24MQEx1dPp6Gn6F22HmUAFv7zUob0ikW2OZQz-8EBN3V_qeO_DrLUwaRZuwiEp3FiMcpqPvImVqnqJpXcEvdsDzV_MTNWmtwtaHZgWvVwQlCidJeN5WXD8GUypJu65hFEq9G=w1600-h1200-no?authuser=0), but caught one of the strong loads right on that point into the ball of my shoulder; when I pulled up quick and took a shot. Hurt like the dickens and gave me quite a "frog" on my shoulder for a time. I use a thumbhole Boyd's stock now for hunting and it's much more comfortable. (Picture: lh3.googleusercontent.com/gqA_5U7JJi9eWZwOjCUo9t9sKRntAhg-nJ0cT6MCE6whvxbhShy_LeRnlI6Ja_MS1S1-pkSrzxeghK4_-xPOYQ8rLI-Z8wgHEzsUJDUuziXMP9MYrTKDNC2PcWQqKiI0ofTcAc1m-LULd2-zEADzE_mSLWm1duSsg8M5SGHbxIyb1Bng_epRjd8IjjA90PErfSgMITmlzXmxsplZ6qg5PYGQqt3OMVqBCbyBRQbc5Zw9iTndYjr7wVhYCea6AUKvHTQFQwlUBupkKQPW_cnWWdfxSrzpdTJWfnG8vkdp1vzOvhtMjAzar7-DSRR__-QLbn_TxoaAmPVjJPFiv2NqRq2wh4Yx2BqtprMcY2Xi_s7sYSpdl19UhGu3sKmDvgvGtStN0X2Cia1a_U56fP5evDJhpV7oxpbJFyoQ_afRIakWUS6InciSLbnyraJNJfYVGzgGlayi-R7t4FNpY_SdHO07CfVDqmTo4knpDCQqqX35JcXSXRhJmpdq8pIEBOJjwjusg71VrVl2RYjxTAmzWUpIzMeZrNQKARMZlg73yrRUOOAN0qaACdopDqZLzslC9OGZBbi-jyg80U1CeXi_xVELR50JpxQ7mP727Q3N_WCuEFihA53P0SFvBruJMoQGvm7dK0SLGerxH_VH7DM-F35E5G1vwbMTC2TuZnHoPoL_ODB3c38IsE4JVJbN=w431-h800-no?authuser=0)
My other lever action is my Model 94 chambered in .32 Winchester Special. It's a pretty spectacular old gun also. It was my Great grandma's "porch gun", as they called it. She would sit in her rocking chair on the front porch and shoot deer during the depression era. It was the first rifle I got to carry deer hunting after the .410 single shot. (Picture: lh3.googleusercontent.com/Qf5OEkL1NnVs-K-SamDoplPp5QHpwv4GyjeMr-VyUVbFfvytZ13fOsRrrN5kTyN5cEa_oHIbdmx9Pnl8Zfg7z7qPBc5NsmKfnqVqIkJ8MWXfbjruNy0fdz-6n_mVdWVxmB7IcbEDATe3n8XZFpQG66Y9Xlg5RjkKWtibulxkfSN8S7CE7zyfYF5bCYzC_41pr_xM4B2o4aIBpGaqMBCEChCoC5weEHOGnGTuwzQsKKWuJQDWZFIpZaEONzOSEZFJy0UT6OrJ-V11QCfDQPQxZJAZhabUwnolS6BRQklOIhFoWcVVHaA8ORf7GU6bydt2WAXpSaTZQ5T77G27oILPsT24z8CpKEW1HFUzYm2zSv0_2h_ACHPdLj8g0A_LIHVGjxzt2dikc0PCn2g1QJ6_j0s9pjrIwUygrT_8ejRVJ_BAkQkgMgQ9dWu3RHn5tzeqolbYAoWoGTcfSVNLUuYuDOhf3Fz5rywKJVkFxBUNcVuxOaDrBeYkHIqvVKDUc70JFWcFEFYFUTnmtKXChzRoYak64B97ICKJYCt3rBLw-MGVzxcwpb8Ppa2nUIHpIsrsiwHYsE0ssTD2ZkR7XlGOeORC2AKvEZpb8920fnlDoGX6xDoRtNyQN6tZ1oOVk9DV7s2gicQrHtqvFmIBizZVMIiOO2WHIoWhAOnZPdn5Ht-a1AKuiH60zXuAg2Nv=w800-h159-no?authuser=0)
Thanks for the history and details, Scott!
@@RonSpomerOutdoors No problem. Sorry for the broken image links. One worked I was told, but the others didn't. I've corrected them to hopefully work for all now.
I was young, 12-13 years old, 1971-1972, and had the unforgettable experience of shooting a big heavy octangular barrel Winchester , late 1800"s something , in 45-70. Went through the 55 gal. barrel and split the barb wire fence post behind it!
You’re making me want to buy a lever action even though I don’t need one
I think everyone needs a lever action. I need many.
With talk of Ruger going to make an heirloom quality lever action rifle in 45-70 and 30-30 by end of this summer I'd start saving their supposed to be equal to or surpass jm quality stamped Marlins and still be marked Marlin
NEED? We are still living in a "want" society for the next maybe 10 years or so. So get your gun..It is a tangible asset..,better than bitcoin.
@@johnturner5893 haha that is true. Next buy is an AR-10 though
Don't forget the first lever-action rifle chambered in 45-70: The 1881 Marlin.
And the fact that 300 gr at 1800 FPS is an anemic load. Buffalo bore for example, has 300 gr at 2350 FPS. An entirely different proposition amd answers question of what the 45-70 will handle...anything on this continent within 150 yards.
@@rpmorrisjr And if you load your own - cautiously, safely, following the load manuals - you can do quite a bit better than that. 300gr at 2500fps, 350 at 2300fps, 400 at 2200fps. Some of the loads are too much for even the best modern lever gun. You need a strong heavy long barreled rifle, and the recoil gets severe. But if you're concerned about giant bears at close range, this may be something you should look at.
Don't insult us with your cheap marlin
@@yourperropapi: There is no need to insult you. Your own comment demonstrates your lack of knowledge. I made a factual statement that Marlin manufactured the first lever-action rifles chambered in 45-70 beginning in 1881. Winchester played catch up for 5 years until they began producing their Model 1886 designed by John Browning. These are facts. They have nothing to do with "cheap" or expensive. However, I don't know of any experienced riflemen who would consider themselves cheaply or inadequately armed with a "JM" Marlin rifle.
@@yourperropapi And what do you shoot?Just so you know that cheap marlin 336 in 45/70 can handle any hot load out there today, unlike most other manufactures in that caliber.
Good analogy with the the 30-30. My Marlin 1895 with 405s stoked up to 1,900 fps is essentially a 30-30 scaled up 2.5 times. Same point blank range as my 336, about 185 yards. Good close range elk rifle, but that 7.5# Marlin 45-70 is not fun to shoot, even with the inch thick recoil pad I fitted to it.
I had a Browning 86 rifle with an octagonal barrel , I fitted a Lyman peep sight and shot black powder loads with a ( custom mold ) 450gr paper patch lead slug , That crescent butt plate may be fine off a horse or standing but , whoo , it bit when shooting from prone . I made a sissy pad from a pair of shoe liners and it still bit , then I got an offer I couldn't refuse and sold it . I have regretted that ever since , it is a beautiful rifle , very slick action , lovely walnut wood and superb deep bluing , with no safety catch .
Great Video, I'm sure about 10,000 people have already mentioned that the 44-40 came out with the 1873 - the 1866 'yellow boy' used the same . 44 rimfire as the Henry. Great Video on the History and Great Channel. 👍🏻
Yes sir, but thanks for the tip anyway, Tim.
My grandfather in Arkansas had a 25-35. I remember shooting it when I was very young.
Took my first doe this year with model 94 30/30 with iron sights. I had a blast, first iron sight deer
I love my Model 94 in 30-30.. I've had it since 80... I also have a Rossi 92 in 45 colt... Sweet shooting little gun...
The Win M86 in .45-70 with a 400 gr. solid is my go to Bush Gun. Taken many a large beastie with it, both here in the US and in Africa.
Great gun!
Thank you, Sir for this amazing video!!
Tip: 300 gr. for deer is good, but everything else, 400gr.
Also, to get the most out of the .45-70, you need to load your own.
Hey Ron ... big fan of the 1886 here. I have a Winchester/Mirouko (sp?) version known as a “deluxe”. Awesome shooter but not a “long range” gun per se. I am using 405gr Hard Cast bullets with 43 grains of RL 7 and it makes for a very comfortable and accurate round. Your right however, at 9 and a half pounds she ain’t a light weight mountain rifle! All the best and stay well.
Black Hills deer with 30-30. That's living. I'm trying to ID where you are in the video. Central Black Hills here. Looks like the scrub oaks in what my Grandpa called Crooked oaks, near Spearfish, but could be the Southern foothills, too.. I use a Savage 1899 with Marbles peep sight in 30 WCF. The old time 30-30 guys taught me to use the 170 grain roundnose. It's only 100 fps or so slower than the 150, but has .256 sectional density. This really helps to drive that slower bullet clear through the lung cavity. It seems to have been good advice. Hornady makes a 150 SST for my .300 Savage. Made to open at much lower velocity than standard 30 cal bullets. I'm not sure the 30-30 can drive it fast enough, but I've loaded a few to test as the rotary mag on the 1898 allows Spitzer bullets.
Another great video. Not that it matters much in terms of the overall message, but, the 44 WCF was born with the 1873 Winchester. The 1866 was still originally chambered for the Henry 44 rimfire round.
I just purchased a Browning 1886 carbine in 45-70. It makes lever gun number nine in my collection.
Got my Henry in 45-70, I don’t get to shoot it much lately but I’m looking forward to shooting it more often once the ammo crisis is over.
Ammo crisis is why I shot so little in this video!
@@RonSpomerOutdoors What is that song that you used in your production intro? It sounds amazing.
Try reloading if you can get the ingredients. Probably easier to acquire than the cartridges. Cheaper shooting too.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors ... Hey Ron, I didn't get a good look at your rifle, but it looks like a tang safety model. I have one with the curved lever. Built in Japan by Miroku, IIRC. I have been shooting a variety of loads using 300gr bullets. Light power rounds with Meister cast lead, and high power rounds with JHP bullets. I use the same in my .458 Winchester Magnum Ruger #1T. I love big bore slammin'.
@@grassroot011 ... Definitely worth a "shot" 😁. Midway has been a great asset for me.
Marlin actually beat Winchester to the punch with a .45-70 lever-action. Their first one was the Model 1881, and they were pretty successful. The 1886 Winchester was lighter, and the Browning design was so elegant and strong it out-competed the Marlin on its own merits. Marlin came up with the 1895 model as a response.
Thanks for the history, tmutant!
Your videos have become so essential to my learning curve. Thank you, teacher.
You nailed it Ron, yes the lever action is a must have for the collection. I have always wanted one, now I think I know which one to get and hand-load for someday. Looks like a very fun rifle to own in 45-70 😎👍
Love my marlin guide gun 45-70
Good photography. I always, as a kid, thought the crescent butt plate was a great idea. I guess, from reading, it isn't nice. Shoot, I could listen to this guy for a day.
Funny I stumbled across this video. Going out to zero my Rossi M92 in .45 Colt tomorrow. It is my pet project, fitted with a 2x long eye relief scope.
Bullet construction has been wanting as of late ,look at solids in brass,that’s a very big improvement,and bonded cores🎯
The 1866 “yellow boy” still used the 40 caliber Henry rim fire Cartridge. It had the improved loading gate by the breech and the wooden fore grip but the 44-40 centerfire cartridge didn’t come until later.
I am sure you mean 44 Henry, not 40.
Some time ago in New Zealand i had a Simiese Mauser action 45/70 and loved it. It would fire a load of IMR 3031 behind a 305 grn projectile at around 1900 fps. impressive. I foolishly sold it to a guy who had had his 45/70 stolen. Always regretted it.
Your videos are just awesome 👏. Thanks for the great work.
Thanks for the video!!! I learned a thing or two!
Great break down of the evolution!
The 44-40 was released in 1873 it was considered one of the main improvements of the model 73. It was not available on the 66, at least not at the time of it's release.
Seems like the 44-40 became the stand in where ever the 44 henry rimfire had been/ or might otherwise be used
This is one fantastic video and I love the intricacies of all the details that this gentleman has a vast knowledge of
The 1886 Winchester in 50-110 is By Far My Favorite Lever Action Rifle Thank You John M Browning 😊😀😊
Thank you very much I really enjoyed the video and I learned quite a bit you're very knowledgeable and wise person
I have an old 1873 trap door I was given years ago. It took some work to get it functional. Its well worn and the rifling is worn. You have to shoot hollow base or very soft bullets or they will be sideways by 25 yards. But it is a neat old rifle. I like the 45-70. It will never go away.
Let's not overlook that Marlin chambered the .45-70 and other big boys a full five years before St. John Moses Browning and Winchester did. The Marlin 1881 is a great lever-action rifle. The Marlin wasn't as popular as the Winchester because it was expensive, often too rich for western types. Winchester was the Chevy of rifles while Marlin was the Caddy.
Yes for some reason the western writers never mention Marlin I guess shooters have to discover them for themselves . Now when I shoot a model 1894 its a marlin .
@@winstonskafte5505
Or the Colt-Burgess rifle of 1883.
Yep, very good video. When Winchester stopped making the M94. Mossberg stepped up to the plate with their M1894 called the M464 in .30-30. I have one and have killed a number of deer 🦌 using the Hornady 160gr FTX bullet. I hand load, so will try the Hornady 140gr MonoFlex @2400 FPS this fall 🤠.
Never felt a Marlin as nice as a Winchester.
Wow! I didn't know about that, thanks for the info, I will research it now. I shoot a Marlin 1895 BLG and I just love it! It is the least practical firearm I own (I live in the UK) but the one I love the most. I only shoot with iron sights because to fit a scope would just be so wrong, and I can hit a 2 litre Coke bottle at 80 standing and 130 yards on a rest dead centre. Great for the big Red Deer we have here and less meat damage than the high velocity rifles I use. All the very best from England mate!
Great videos as always!! I know your content is very much cartridge based, however when looking at Lewis and Clarke, it's well documented that they also carried some french made air rifles. It's an interesting piece of history and often overlooked.
I'm a history buff anyways I love history is my favorite subject in school
I really find your shows Very Entertaining and a factual historic manner. Thank you.
Excellent....Thanks my young friend...!
Really enjoyed the information you put out on the Winchester leaver action. I would like see the 348 Winchester model 71.
Awesome video. Thanks for putting these out for us to watch. I’m going to look for a video of you talking about the variety of bullets for the 45-70. I like how you go about the facts of various calibers. There are too many people who just go with myths and disregard facts.
The 86 is a fantastic rifle. I really want to get one of the new ones with a 71 style butt and semi pistol grip. I dont really have much need for a .45-70 but God I want one BAD
Very informative. Thanks.
I really enjoy your videos. Very informative and interesting.
liked the video, i picked up a henry 45-70 a few years ago after inheriting a few boxes from gramps after he passed (apparently no one else wanted that much recoil??) and im glad i did, it quickly became one of my favorite cartriges and rifles
Great review.
great video
Always gets me when I watch a western that shows someone supposed to be firing a Henry at long range or blowing a man off his horse or his feet. Still nice looking rifles. The Billy Dixon shot would have shoved someone backwards though. Love that case hardened 73. The .45-70 Springfield the army used was rated as a 600 yd range rifle.
Enjoyed that video, I have become a lever action junkie!!
An excellent video, not only for the beginning shooter of the 45/70 ! A lot of information in a half hour ! Thank You !
Thank you.
I miss my old 45-70. I loved it while hunting in thick under growth in PA.
interesting...the 45/70 in the Hornady leverolution with a 300 gr bullet at 2100 fps puts this round into or just below the lower 458 Winchester realm. The 450 Marlin, a 45/70 with a magnum belted case and 350 gr bullet at 2100 fps is definitely in the low 458 range and recoils accordingly in those lighter weight lever guns. After about ten rounds of the Marlin offering I begin to feel like I'm beginning to get a headache....but a great camp defender! The 44-40 was a utility round good in both rifle and revolver, so one cartridge for two guns was a saleable option.
And yes the Sioux had Custer at a disadvantage as they could get near enough in the tall Buffalo grass to bring their revolver cartridges to greatest effect. One wonders if the last thought Custer had was on hubris?
Speaking from experience!
Like your channel! You are very knowledgeable are present the info in a very understandable format. Thanks Bro!
Thank you, John.
Thanks Ron. That video was really informative and entertaining as well, you have a great way of putting things across, clearly - and you made it so interesting. Your knowledge of the subject and your explanation made it so easy to take in and understand. Ballistics is not the easiest subject to read, I find it's a lot better to hear it from someone like yourself who knows what he's talking about. Thanks again my friend.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks.
I had owned a Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun for several years, until I’d passed it on to my son. It is a real sledgehammer.😂
Thanks!
Thanks SO MUCH for your knowledge and time for Us 👍!
beautiful case hardening on that rifle, thanks for the great content
I like 45-70. I think it is an over looked round that is especially good for a reloader. It can be loaded mild to wild. I have the Marlin 1895SS and the 1895GS. The GS is kept in AK and goes with me into the bush whenever I travel up there. One of my pet loads is with hornady interlock JRNSP combined with IMR3031, 50 gr. In SE US that will handle anything I encounter. For AK I have hotter loads that are using 400 grain bullets. I use Buffalo Bore.
Awesome video like always thanks Ron every helpful
Thanks Tony.
Great video-
There are so many loads for the 45-70. I love the 325gr leverultion for deer and would opt for the 405gr +ps or heavier for bear or larger game. All are a blast to shoot out of my Henry
What a fantastic follow-up to your 30-30 Winchester there Ron. As I mentioned in that video I would love to get a lever gun for the many reasons that others have given. There's something about the old Cowboy 🤠 action style rifles. I also mentioned that since my Dad and brother have 30/30s and that my neighboring state of Ohio is a straightwall cartridge state, I would like to eventually get a lever gun in 45/70.
The results on those warthogs make me hesitate almost as much as the price on those gorgeous Pendersolis. Thanks for sharing some history on this cartridge and others.
I love listening to your stories....so if we were in the hunting camp, around the fire, I could listen to all the stories about lever action rifles! Thanks for sharing Mr Spomer!
Thank you John. Maybe we'll meet round that campfire one day.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors that, indeed, would be a dream come true! Thank you Mr Spomer!!
I use a 45/70 in model 1886 in the tropics where we only wear a thin cotton shirt the factory loads are really punishing, three shots with the steel but plate is enough.
Thank you sir for sharing your knowledge in such a professional and ( western) charming way.! Greetings from Vancouver Island ,British Columbia !
You are very welcome
They were the first mass produced, commercially viable repeating rifles. There were many more repeating rifles before. He even mentions some of them. Colt Roots was another, and so very many more.
Just picked up a Henry X model 45-70 Govt. I've shot 400g and it kicks pretty darn hard. Sore shoulder for a couple days after a couple boxes. Love this gun, excited to have it.
Great video on one of my favourite calibers! I’m a Marlin guy, but if I had to pick a Winnie, it’d be the 1886 in .45-70 GOVT. Take care.
Thank you
Great video as always. With regard to the ammo manufacturers emphasizing the 300 grain projectile over the 405 grain, I don't think that's as much a safety issue with older rifles as more of a marketing decision driven by market demand. My own experience and having observed others who hunt with rifles chambered for the same cartridge is there is more demand for the higher muzzle velocity with a lighter bullet because it results in a little more leeway with range estimation for shots out to 300 yards.
I have never before seen any of your videos, I just stumbled upon your site. I was impressed at your instruction and history storytelling and I like how you weave both together. I am not sure if you write good scripts or you are just a natural on camera...either way, well done! My only critique, and I must stress that it is probably going to ignite a fight by some who read, but your comment about the danger of wolves is something I cannot overlook. I will forgive you if you were simply continuing the narrative that has been fed to us since time immemorial but for anyone that actually believes that wolves are dangerous, my advice is to do the research. There hasn't been a single wolf attack on a human in the history of North America. There are commonly reports of attacks (as recently as this year in Jasper National Park) but like all the others, coyotes are responsible. Unknowledgeable tourists that feed or come across habitually fed coyotes always cry 'wolf' when they see one. Even going back in an historical study to investigate 'wolf' attacks that go back many years, including some that have actual samples (hair, scat), DNA tests show that coyotes are responsible. Let me briefly say that I am not vilifying the coyote (their attacks are rare and are almost always caused by tourists feeding them) and they are a necessary piece of the ecosystem. Going further (and this is where I am sure the fight will start), the death of the American young man who was killed in Canada several years ago had 'experts' investigate at the request his wealthy family. They apparently had someone tell them that it was a wolf (as wolves were seen in the area) and they took it from there. Every interview they gave said that it was wolves....and that sealed it for the wolf. Just like being vilified in the past for hundreds of years, the wolf was once again the stuff of nightmares. Just like when we were kids with all the fairytales, the wolf was feared and hated. Getting past the media that regurgitated the story that his family shared about being devoured by wolves, a little know study was done at the very site where the young man tragically lost his life. Of some of the people that were there (wardens, police, coroners), there was a bear biologist. He stated unequivocally that it was indeed a black bear that had made the kill.
I know that was long, and I thank you if you read it and took it to heart (a long winded way of asking you to edit your ill-speaking of the wolf), but it really is important that they are seen for what they are. If you would like me to go into detail about that, I would be glad to expand on just what they are (and are not) and just how important they really are.
Coming full circle to where I began, I really do like your channel and I will subscribe and continue to watch.
In defense of the Wolf, and sincerely and respectfully,
James
Hi Ron, I love those old rifles and rounds but in a historical view. I am a medic and a history nerd. Hi from Denmark
I think the Browning blr with a box magazine and front locking like a bolt rifle is the ultimate lever rifle.