Voyager arriving just then seemed to be a good compliment to what had just happened with the Natives. It was like the spirit of Voyager, and the Goodness of Starfleet had returned, and Voyager physically returning was just secondarily there to illuminate it. 😀
It is so ironic that a sociopath who killed a crewman in Cold Blood was solely responsible for the crew retaking the ship and eventually getting home. If there ever was a character that truly redeemed himself in the end it was Suder.
@@dirdib69 well he was a sociopath. You couldn't control himself. And that's why it was so important that Tuvok. was able to control him via a mindmeld. It was like he had a brain defect and the mind meld fixed it similar to that episode and Voyager called repentance where the Nygean with a brain injury causing him to be violent.
People are always saying how the Doctor and Seven of Nine were the best things about Voyager. But I do enjoy episodes that focuses on Paris too. Or where he plays a heroic role like he does here.
@@AndrewChapman -You kidding right, doctor and seven of nine were the worst. Once SON come she screw up show completely. Only 3 actors knew here how to act in sci fi and they were characters Paris/Torres and Tuvok and others were terrible. All 3 of them have been doing directing and Robert has been also doing co-producing. They don't act for long time.
Reused in From Dusk Till Dawn, for Quentin Tarantino’s character, after he is staked by his brother, George Clooney’s. Unfortunately, I cannot tell from IMDb which came first.
The Talaxians proved to be friends and allies to Captain Janeway and the Voyager crew. Also, Mr. Suder died bravely in helping Lt. Paris, & the Talaxians retake Voyager.
Well, it was also in their best interests. Judging by how Neelix reacted to them, they probably bullied the Talaxians just like they did to everyone else, so letting them keep the technology of Voyager would have been very bad.
AgnosticProle. ”I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr. Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life.” This ‘prayer’ is indeed apt for so many people, not just for struggling Vulcans👏🏽🖖🏼😌
@Alex1514 Typically it wouldn't make sense, like a constitution, galaxy or miranda landing wouldn't be the best because of their overall shapes and sizes, plus those are mainly patrol, and diplomatic ships. Intrepids however were designed as long range science and exploratory vessels, the landing ability would save ships resources when exploring a habitable planet, by landing they wouldn't have to use the ships life support, instead they'd get breathable atmosphere and livable temperatures from the planet, and quite possibly find or grow their own food supply so no using of the food replicators, basically landing on the right kinds planets allows the ship to be in a power reserve mode with just the basics operating while the crew is able to explore the planets.
1:42 i love this moment, it's an oddly spiritual moment for a hyper-rational people like the Vulcans but i like it, paying final respects to someone who truly tried to change from their violent ways.
I've been a spaceship Hog every since the 1960s with the Jupiter2 from "Lost in space". This is why I play the game "Star Citizen to this day. When I learned from this episodes original airing that it was a Star Fleet ship capable of terrestrial landings it INSTANTLY made my list of all time favorite Star Trek ships.
Would have been easy to replicate an amount of supplies. Simple ones that they could adapt to their needs. And, oops, it never got recorded in the ship's logs, because if it did someone would be in prime directive trouble.
@@samsonguy10k They did not have to give them materials that were more advanced than the Talaxians had. Their industrial replicators could have generated raw materials that were uncommon but not rare or so valuable as to upset the balance of their economy. Besides, another reward was that the Nystrom did *Not* get to adapt and assimilate Federation technology into their own marshal technology! That would have been very bad for The Talaxians! In fact it would have been very bad for everyone else! Including other sects of the Kazon! Which raises the question why didn't Paris get also get help from any of the other Kazon Sects who were hostile to the Nystrom, too? Had the Nystrom and their allies gotten their hands on Voyagers weapons, they could well have started with settling some old scores among the other sects, whos lives they had no more regard for than any other alien species. ☹️
Voyager had the good concept of being far from home. Many people say it was too slow during the first years. It went form good to awesome when Seven of Nine came aboard.
Slow..... aren't all shows like that at the very beginning? Just look at ST:ENT... it was even slower! But i'm not complaining -- i actually like a show that does things at a pace that makes sense for the series' premise. Apart from being the home of Guinan's civilization and of course the Borg, the Delta Quadrant (prior to Voyager) was perceived to be a complete, mysterious expanse. To have Voyager's stories go at the pace of, oh, lets say an installment from "The Fast & Furious" franchise, as one extreme example.... it would just be complete nonsense. Real Trek fans not only want to be immersed in the story, but to also spend much more time in it than, lets say, an episode of STD (which is a bastardization of 'proper' Star Trek, imho). Gene Rodenberry's original vision for Star Trek was such that it was set in a place and time that is wondrous and full of appeal, particularly for people who dream of either escaping the real-world problems we face today or for those who look for inspiration to make the relative Utopia of Star Trek a reality within their/our own lifetimes.
Voyager did this concept perfectly. It had many new interesting concepts, deepened our knowledge of the Borg and explored more of the Trek philosophy. People nowadays are "Ronald Moore this" and "Battlestar Galactica that", but it's only for the good that both are separate. BSG is such a negative show. Star Trek is about positivity. Even DSC and Picard, which let in more desperate themes, are still about hope and the willingness to make things better. BSG was basically about people arguing, fistfighting, suiciding in depression and occasionally about interesting story. That is something that cannot fit Trek. Voyager had occasional high-stake episodes, where the ship got taken, but it still showed us the positive aspects. If BSG crew got stranded like the crew here in Basics, half of them would kill each other and captain Adama and miss president would stage coups against each other at least once a week... Hell, even Year of Hell was about finding allies and solutions instead about the crew being miserable....
Damm straight!! And i really liked his humility here as well. He didn't take the credit all for himself, instead he acknowledged those who helped him out.
no, the Talaxians lost a lot of men just to save some foreign travellers and fought against a way superior ship and maybe started a war against the Kazon.
What a great show , i got the original series , next gen , deep space 9 , voyager , enterprise and all movies on vhs which i found in a box on someones front verge , awesome score
I know the feeling is 'Feel for his victims', and I do - but Suder really wanted to change, or to be far away enough from people that he presented no threat. He recognized what he was, which is more than many more supposedly sane people ever do. I second Tuvok's prayer.
you know how a new born baby starts off crawling and then walks, well for the first year Voyager walked , in the second year they crawled , but once the third year started the writers got it together and they ran , and it didn't matter if the episode was good or bad I looked forward to watching it from that point on.
Joseph Perdomo I agree. I hated seasons 1 e 2, love the rest, specially the ones around Seven of Nine. In fact, ditching Kes and adding Seven was the best thing the writers could come up with
@@koshi6505 I meant more that Voyager had an AWFUL habit of killing off / writing out any secondary characters outside of the senior officers. Another example is Ensign Hogan, who from the beginning is a background engineering officer who is actually competant, and they kill him off by having him walk into a cave by himself so the others can find his uniform and be like: "Oh no! The main characters are in danger!"
@@ShasOSwoll To be fair, that's hardly unique to Voyager. The term "redshirt" exists for a reason. And they weren't always nameless security personnel.
@@SamWinters yes, all through startrek since the beginning, you saw a new face, you knew he was going to die that episode. Tasha Yar in next generation was I believe the first main/regular character to die.
Yea I’d have liked to have seen Suder developed more over the years. Show how someone can be rehabilitated / redeemed over time. Wouldn’t have had to have seen him every episode, as the actor is likely a busy guy. He could have had an interesting dynamic with 7.
That scenery is still every bit as majestic today as it was then. I live near where they filmed in the Alabama Hills below Mt. Whitney, just outside of Lone Pine, CA. But don't expect to see any giant lizards or exploding volcanoes though! Those are the CGI add-ins.
One thing I just noticed after watching this episode many times is that, apart from Paris, everyone else doesn't have a com badge on. It's a tiny attention to detail but a good one.
That was his girlfriend for years. Many people still have strong feelings for others even if the relationship is broken or done. Seska returned in two more episodes: Worst Case Scenario & Shattered. In Shattered, Seska returned but Chakatoy didn't have the same feelings for her but still tried to persuade her to change which she didn't.
I never liked that this episode didn't deal with the fact that Janeway made a piss-poor decision to lead Voyager into an obvious trap and lost several crew members in an attempt to rescue a baby that was probably not Chakotay's to begin with. It should have severely shaken the crew's confidence in her leadership.
That and nobody acknowledged that they broke the prime directive, or even told the Kazon "Hey make sure this planet doesn't have primitive life first." Not even Tuvok bothered to inform Janeway "The Kazon forced us to break the prime directive and should be punished for it." Granted they were all in a firefight for so long, but still... you think the Kazon would be a bit more careful when they're coordinating together among their factions against a single enemy, being the crew of Voyager.
@@DarKKlusteR you don’t punish other people for breaking your laws, especially in their territory on the other side of the Galaxy. Voyager can follow the prime directive and lead by example but that’s all. I’m pretty sure the Klingons conquer under developed worlds to plunder resources and do romulans, but what’s the federation going to do about it? Nothing. The Klingons and romulans made their own choice within their own territory.
she's probably the worst captain in star trek for example she kept making decisions that got her crew stuck in the delta quadrant and slowed them down. she wasnt tough enough. she also didnt full fill the her duty as a captain which is putting her crew first
Would have been very Paris like if he'd said something like "I rather enjoy being in command, might not give it up" in that usual joking way he does. But still one of the best episodes of voyager.
Lon Suder was one of the best characters ever created in a Star Trek series. Basics, Part 2 aired about 5 years after Gene Roddenberry died. If Gene had been alive and in control of Voyager production, that character would have never seen the light of day.
there is one episode where they repair the ship and walk on the hull. you get a good sense of her size there. unfortunately i don't know which episode it is.
Well, look at the size of the windows, then the size of the average human. Look at one of the scenes where they stand next to those windows from the inside, and boom...there's your reference.
@@compmanio36 Good idea. @Leo I thought of that episode, also. Chris, that one was in about the second to last or third to last season. Besides the repairs, they just dealt with crew member's relationships and and not any kind of outside, enemy alien threat. It was a fairly interesting episode that other Star Trek serieses from that time would not have done.
That treacherous siska got what was coming to her the first episode of season 3 of star trek voyager ends the kazon encounters and onward to explore the delta quadrant
When Star Trek had substance & facts had priority over feelings, you know officers behaved with the dignity & stoicism their commission conferred & science was used for human concern.
I really really really enjoyed "Star Trek: Voyager." But I still don't understand why do some people hate it? It's a great series. What's not to like about it?!
Because they phoned in the acting. Because the characters were idiotic. Because they fell prey to everyone in the Delta Quadrant even though they were in a more advanced ship and were faster. Because they used 'magic future tech' to make armor out of nothing...
Many people have many different opinions on the show. Some say the characters are largely uninteresting. That the writing was often subpar. That the show had so much potential but was limited by the episodic structure and frequent use of the “reset” button. I happen to like Voyager (there’s something to love in each of the series) but many disagree.
Voyager was the first Star Trek I watched as a teenager and I loved it, I like all characters in TNG, DS9 and Enterprise but Voyager is special for me like Farscape which was the first space scifi show I watched
When it was good it was good. When it was bad it was dreadful. I found Janeway way too idealistic, she didn't behave like she was in a survival situation. Too many times she stuck to her Starfleet principles and risked her crew getting home for them. I would've liked to see her look the other way a few times. Maybe having those actions brought up in episodes after they got home... It also ended way too quickly. They could have had another few episodes if not a whole season after they returned home. I would have much preferred to see episodes like that instead of Fairhaven or the doctor trying to get a personality, or Harry Kim trying to get laid. Also one thing really really bugged me, was the amount of time they were in the delta quadrant and almost being destroyed, they always ended up repairing the ship to showroom condition. As the series progressed it should have started looking more banged up, maybe having parts replaced with obvious improvised "local made" components or alien tech. Show a bit of wear and tear on the ship. Would have been great to see a season 1 USS Voyager and compare it to a season 7 one. I still enjoyed it, but it could have been done a lot better.
I do wonder what would become of that stone age people. Would they make cave painters of the strange visitors and their sky ship, would in thousands of years time their descendants, a technologically advance race, come across those paintings and wonder what their ancestors were trying to depict. Would they wonder if it was just symbolic or maybe showing something that really happened. And maybe then, once they achieved warp flight and hundreds more years of advancement, make it to the alpha quadrant and encounter the human race and learn to the truth of what really happened of their ancestors so long ago.
Many fans like myself said Seska shouldn't have died but returned as an adversary. She's smart, sneaky, witty & cleaver. Thankfully she came back in two more episodes: Season 3 Worst Case Scenario and Season 7 Shattered. The character was in 13 episodes. Martha Hackett said her character was turned from a bajoran officer into a Cardassian spy because the writers needed a villain. She said when Seska died, it was a wimpy death, which it was. Also Seska's baby wasn't Chakatoy's, which also sucked. Chakatoy never brought her up or discussed it with anyone which was typical Star Trek writing.
Seska was kinda used up by that point. Chakotay had already been established as having built a bridge and gotten over it. They would've had to do quite bit of retconning to make her stay relevant.
The Doctor discovered the baby wasnt Chakotoy's but they never told him in the episode. And at the end, Seska, the baby AND the Kazon father die. Surely having Chakotoy grieve the loss of his believed son should of been shown, with the Doctor saying with a grin "Not to worry Sir, the boy wasn't yours. I ran a DNA comparison, the child, is half kazon." @@tek512
Seska kind of had very little reason to continue being an adversary. By the time they got to that point, they'd pretty much ruined any chance to make her a good villain. They also could have had the Maje keep chasing Voyager for revenge. The Kazon would have been a good recurring villain, but they did nothing with them after that.
Alternate version: The crew see Voyager approaching them, but Seska and Culluh are still in control. The last thing the crew see is a photon torpedo flying straight towards them. End series.
I, for one, wish that Chakotay had been the father of Seska's son. In which case, it would have been a nice touch for him to say to her, "Goodbye, Seska. I'll take good care of our son." Considering she said those same words to him when she took Voyager.
Voyager crew didn’t have much choice in the matter. Their ship was stolen by hostile races, then forcibly stranded on the planet, so how else were they suppose to be rescued? Doubt the Kazon cared about Starfleet’s Prime Directive, not their rule, not their problem.
I like s.t.voyager. It was the first star trek show i had watch and since then ive watch the others as well and enjoyed them. They are all diffrent but theirs an attraction to the star trek series it takes you forward to the future and what could be and enlightens the Imagination. The only thing that i dont like of the voyager series now after watching the star trek univers is that after all those fights the ship is back to 100% efficiency no damage after every battle. It makes no sence. Its like playing easy mode in a game and dont have to worie how bad the ship is getting demoliged as long as the shell is Intact, because the next episode will show it completely Fixed as it was out of dock from a federation Space base. Atleast make it look as it was majerly retro fitted with diffrent alien tech. And make the outside of the ship look diffrent. Sorry for the rant i just had to put it out their
Given replication technology exists in Starfleet is there any reason they wouldn't just replace damaged panels with new ones? Production reason: All of the Star Trek series had a bunch of "stock shots" of the outside of the ship, to save money they just reused a lot of the same clips between episodes. In later seasons of Voyager they started using CGI more (the earlier exterior shots are motion capture video of actual models) and perhaps could have incorporated damage across episodes, but it would have meant re-rendering the ship for every episode even when that's not part of the story-of-the-week. I.e, lots of extra work (and cost) for little improvement to the story. The 90s was a very different era, when shows were on TV, they couldn't write episodes as if the audience had any knowledge of the previous episode, because there was no Netflix to binge watch them in sequence. They had to stand on their own.
Voyager had industrial replicators so they could create large panels and parts. They eventually use them to create new photon torpedoes and to build entirely new spacecraft (Delta Flyer). They don't show the weeks between episodes where they fix stuff. At least that's how I choose to see it.
In Germany, people like Seska are referred to as Kameradenschwein. A Kameradenschwein is someone who behaves in an uncomfortable way, with a lack of solidarity, or who betrays his comrades. Unfortunately, the English term for it is unknown to me
Kim: Captain, should we beam some food supplies down as a thank you to our new friends? Janeway: Negative, Mr Kim. I don't want to have any lasting impact on the natural progression of their civilisation." Kim: 🤷♂️
Should have had a shot of Paris shooting First Maje Jal Cullah on the bridge on the highest phaser setting and falling down flailingly like the Kazon do in those episodes... But it's Voyager so....
To tell you the truth there was nothing for seska. What they should have done with her was turn her into a person who really wanted to get home more faster and more unethically
The Kazon were the stereotypical bad guys in the early seasons of Voyager. When Seska joined them, they didn't really upgrade to anything except as her minions. The Kazon were also too unimaginative and wouldn't be patient to develop their own tech, preferring to steal it instead. It happens when a civilization is divided into tribes. One tribe tries to get the upper hand by any means necessary. After this episode, and I believe one more, Seska and the Kazon don't return until a season 7 filler episode.
The Borg considered them unworthy of assimilation. That’s a pretty scathing judgement of them considering Seven mentioned the Omega episode they had assimilated primitive cultures.
I doubt PD includes punishment for being stranded on a planet by a hostiles after the said hostiles stole their ship, so they didn't have much of a choice. Besides, what was Tom to do, leave them behind and be on his merry way by his lonesome? Give them a break.
Something about the uniforms without the Starfleet delta just looks wrong. I can't even explain it, but my brain is just shouting 'WRONG!' like the old Lex Luther meme when I see them without their comm-badges.
The people did. Look at the guy using native plants to calm the baby. Sure some of the crew will die since lack of medicine, at most some will have families.
Steven They have water. You’d be surprise just hiw often water can be found in places you never think. Lived in Las Vegas. Heard wild horses go into caves in awkward position to get water deep in summer.
0:56 Always love that moment, especially that version of the Voyager theme tune.
wonder if any of the crew thought the kazon came back to blast them all into oblivion
@@randomrazr I bet some did, as well as many of the natives.
Voyager arriving just then seemed to be a good compliment to what had just happened with the Natives.
It was like the spirit of Voyager, and the Goodness of Starfleet had returned, and Voyager physically returning was just secondarily there to illuminate it.
😀
but how do they hover?
Warp?
Impulse?
hmmmmm..?
@@ziraprod6090 They hovered using the bow, ventral, and aft RCT’s firing towards the surface.
It is so ironic that a sociopath who killed a crewman in Cold Blood was solely responsible for the crew retaking the ship and eventually getting home. If there ever was a character that truly redeemed himself in the end it was Suder.
He finally had something he cared about, and something he cared about enough to give that thing up.
@@dirdib69that, and he could finally channel his dark compulsiom towards good ends.
He played a very similar character on Babylon 5.
@@dirdib69 well he was a sociopath. You couldn't control himself. And that's why it was so important that Tuvok. was able to control him via a mindmeld. It was like he had a brain defect and the mind meld fixed it similar to that episode and Voyager called repentance where the Nygean with a brain injury causing him to be violent.
I can sometimes be a merciless dick, but I can actually say that the death of Suder really saddened me.
Paris was pretty boss in the episode. He basically stole Voyager back and rescued the entire crew.
People are always saying how the Doctor and Seven of Nine were the best things about Voyager. But I do enjoy episodes that focuses on Paris too. Or where he plays a heroic role like he does here.
Hey, it was a team effort! And Grima Wormtongue shot up a whole bunch of Kazon, too! WORMTONGUE, MOTHERFUCKERS!!
Uhhh you mean Suder.
@@Foebane72 he was not always that way. He was once a man of Rohan. Well and a racist prick who beats his wife.
@@AndrewChapman -You kidding right, doctor and seven of nine were the worst. Once SON come she screw up show completely. Only 3 actors knew here how to act in sci fi and they were characters Paris/Torres and Tuvok and others were terrible. All 3 of them have been doing directing and Robert has been also doing co-producing. They don't act for long time.
"May your death bring you the peace you never found in life " ....a good prayer for some troubled souls
I agree.
I gave that prayer to my father after he died.
Thats what they'll say at mine
@@geoffwilliams4478 I did to my mom.
Reused in From Dusk Till Dawn, for Quentin Tarantino’s character, after he is staked by his brother, George Clooney’s.
Unfortunately, I cannot tell from IMDb which came first.
The landing sequence still holds up over 20 years later.
why wouldn't it they did it very well back then so it should hold up just because it was CGI does not mean it has to suck if it's done right
Yes, but CGI done right back then was expensive, too much for episodic TV except for special occasion episodes. @@SaraMorgan-ym6ue
The Talaxians proved to be friends and allies to Captain Janeway and the Voyager crew. Also, Mr. Suder died bravely in helping Lt. Paris, & the Talaxians retake Voyager.
Well, it was also in their best interests. Judging by how Neelix reacted to them, they probably bullied the Talaxians just like they did to everyone else, so letting them keep the technology of Voyager would have been very bad.
@@RubyofthedeadI concur with that.
That tuvok line gets me every time.
AgnosticProle. ”I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr. Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life.” This ‘prayer’ is indeed apt for so many people, not just for struggling Vulcans👏🏽🖖🏼😌
A friend of mine took his own life years ago, and I used a variation of this line at the service.
Great line, but it was stolen from "From Dusk til Dawn."
@@RandomMadness42 ahhh.... Quote appropriation...lol
I know, right? I have used it several times since I heard this.
The fact that the “Intrepid “ class can land is still pretty damn cool!😎
al star trek ships can land, just not in one piece though.
@@goned216 that's called crashing
@@yellowpu1 wait really? did not know that!
@Alex1514 Typically it wouldn't make sense, like a constitution, galaxy or miranda landing wouldn't be the best because of their overall shapes and sizes, plus those are mainly patrol, and diplomatic ships. Intrepids however were designed as long range science and exploratory vessels, the landing ability would save ships resources when exploring a habitable planet, by landing they wouldn't have to use the ships life support, instead they'd get breathable atmosphere and livable temperatures from the planet, and quite possibly find or grow their own food supply so no using of the food replicators, basically landing on the right kinds planets allows the ship to be in a power reserve mode with just the basics operating while the crew is able to explore the planets.
@@Skyfire_The_Goth Voyagerabago, the space RV.
Seska was such a devious, conniving and cunning character. She deserved her fate.
Dalek Supreme: "SHE WAS AN INFERIOR ADVERSARY THAT DESERVED HER IMMINENT EXTERMINATION!"
I don't even remember Seska anymore.
Yes she does. Seska is very rudely vile.
"She's a heartless, cold blooded killer."
"Like I said, she's a Cardassian."
1:42 i love this moment, it's an oddly spiritual moment for a hyper-rational people like the Vulcans but i like it, paying final respects to someone who truly tried to change from their violent ways.
I've been a spaceship Hog every since the 1960s with the Jupiter2 from "Lost in space". This is why I play the game "Star Citizen to this day. When I learned from this episodes original airing that it was a Star Fleet ship capable of terrestrial landings it INSTANTLY made my list of all time favorite Star Trek ships.
Ever try Star Trek Online? While I have issues with the game, they do make excellent ships, in fact Enterprise F (now Canon) came from it.
I really hope they rewarded the Telaxians somehow. They put their necks on the line against the Kazon.
Would have been easy to replicate an amount of supplies. Simple ones that they could adapt to their needs. And, oops, it never got recorded in the ship's logs, because if it did someone would be in prime directive trouble.
@@samsonguy10k They did not have to give them materials that were more advanced than the Talaxians had.
Their industrial replicators could have generated raw materials that were uncommon but not rare or so valuable as to upset the balance of their economy.
Besides, another reward was that the Nystrom did *Not* get to adapt and assimilate Federation technology into their own marshal technology!
That would have been very bad for The Talaxians! In fact it would have been very bad for everyone else!
Including other sects of the Kazon!
Which raises the question why didn't Paris get also get help from any of the other Kazon Sects who were hostile to the Nystrom, too?
Had the Nystrom and their allies gotten their hands on Voyagers weapons, they could well have started with settling some old scores among the other sects, whos lives they had no more regard for than any other alien species. ☹️
Voyager had the good concept of being far from home. Many people say it was too slow during the first years. It went form good to awesome when Seven of Nine came aboard.
Slow..... aren't all shows like that at the very beginning? Just look at ST:ENT... it was even slower! But i'm not complaining -- i actually like a show that does things at a pace that makes sense for the series' premise. Apart from being the home of Guinan's civilization and of course the Borg, the Delta Quadrant (prior to Voyager) was perceived to be a complete, mysterious expanse. To have Voyager's stories go at the pace of, oh, lets say an installment from "The Fast & Furious" franchise, as one extreme example.... it would just be complete nonsense. Real Trek fans not only want to be immersed in the story, but to also spend much more time in it than, lets say, an episode of STD (which is a bastardization of 'proper' Star Trek, imho). Gene Rodenberry's original vision for Star Trek was such that it was set in a place and time that is wondrous and full of appeal, particularly for people who dream of either escaping the real-world problems we face today or for those who look for inspiration to make the relative Utopia of Star Trek a reality within their/our own lifetimes.
IlokanoWarrior it was perfection from start to end
rkmugen nicely put
Voyager did this concept perfectly. It had many new interesting concepts, deepened our knowledge of the Borg and explored more of the Trek philosophy. People nowadays are "Ronald Moore this" and "Battlestar Galactica that", but it's only for the good that both are separate. BSG is such a negative show. Star Trek is about positivity. Even DSC and Picard, which let in more desperate themes, are still about hope and the willingness to make things better. BSG was basically about people arguing, fistfighting, suiciding in depression and occasionally about interesting story. That is something that cannot fit Trek. Voyager had occasional high-stake episodes, where the ship got taken, but it still showed us the positive aspects. If BSG crew got stranded like the crew here in Basics, half of them would kill each other and captain Adama and miss president would stage coups against each other at least once a week... Hell, even Year of Hell was about finding allies and solutions instead about the crew being miserable....
It was good when Seven of Nine was on the show, but to anyone who didnt watch the third year , they missed out on some great writing.
20 000 years later, all that was left of the meeting were the cave paintings
Tom Paris is the real hero here.
Damm straight!! And i really liked his humility here as well. He didn't take the credit all for himself, instead he acknowledged those who helped him out.
convenient that he was in a shuttle
no, the Talaxians lost a lot of men just to save some foreign travellers and fought against a way superior ship and maybe started a war against the Kazon.
yeah Janeway should have let Tom give the order to warp out!
What a great show , i got the original series , next gen , deep space 9 , voyager , enterprise and all movies on vhs which i found in a box on someones front verge , awesome score
in a slightly different timeline:
*Tom gets promoted to lt. commander because of this but harry stays ensign*
That was unfair because Harry should have been promoted.
@@richardyoung9024 i said "slightly" different
@@richardyoung9024 Yeah, especially for cutting Janeway's hair for when they were making fire lol
A murderer dies a hero, happens in war sometimes.
I know the feeling is 'Feel for his victims', and I do - but Suder really wanted to change, or to be far away enough from people that he presented no threat. He recognized what he was, which is more than many more supposedly sane people ever do. I second Tuvok's prayer.
The worst person in the Universe, in the right circumstances is capable of the most selfless act of heroism. No one is entirely black or white...
you know how a new born baby starts off crawling and then walks, well for the first year Voyager walked , in the second year they crawled , but once the third year started the writers got it together and they ran , and it didn't matter if the episode was good or bad I looked forward to watching it from that point on.
Joseph Perdomo I agree. I hated seasons 1 e 2, love the rest, specially the ones around Seven of Nine.
In fact, ditching Kes and adding Seven was the best thing the writers could come up with
It's an irony that the characters less prone to heroic acts were the ones who got Voyager back
That years later bodies found would lead them to Voyager Ala the Voth. Fantastic.
"Suder disabled the phasers before they wrote him out of the show."
That's not entirely true. They brought him up in the episode with the Devore hunting telepaths.
@@koshi6505 I meant more that Voyager had an AWFUL habit of killing off / writing out any secondary characters outside of the senior officers. Another example is Ensign Hogan, who from the beginning is a background engineering officer who is actually competant, and they kill him off by having him walk into a cave by himself so the others can find his uniform and be like: "Oh no! The main characters are in danger!"
@@ShasOSwoll To be fair, that's hardly unique to Voyager. The term "redshirt" exists for a reason. And they weren't always nameless security personnel.
@@SamWinters yes, all through startrek since the beginning, you saw a new face, you knew he was going to die that episode. Tasha Yar in next generation was I believe the first main/regular character to die.
Yea I’d have liked to have seen Suder developed more over the years. Show how someone can be rehabilitated / redeemed over time. Wouldn’t have had to have seen him every episode, as the actor is likely a busy guy. He could have had an interesting dynamic with 7.
So many thanks for uploading all these special moments 🙌🙌
It's my pleasure
That scenery is still every bit as majestic today as it was then. I live near where they filmed in the Alabama Hills below Mt. Whitney, just outside of Lone Pine, CA. But don't expect to see any giant lizards or exploding volcanoes though! Those are the CGI add-ins.
These days, are you sure?
One thing I just noticed after watching this episode many times is that, apart from Paris, everyone else doesn't have a com badge on. It's a tiny attention to detail but a good one.
The kazon took there com badges
God I miss this kind of Star Trek so much.
Me too.
the amount of crap seska put them through, and chakatoy still cares :O
That was his girlfriend for years. Many people still have strong feelings for others even if the relationship is broken or done. Seska returned in two more episodes: Worst Case Scenario & Shattered. In Shattered, Seska returned but Chakatoy didn't have the same feelings for her but still tried to persuade her to change which she didn't.
Hes a Beta
Well she is kinda cute...
@Jonsin 1459 Don't take everything you read on the internet too seriously. Trust me, you'll be happier...
Oh I don’t know. Just because she gave Chakotay the Rimordian clap doesn’t make Seska all THAT bad.
This is the captain's log that would make Admiral Paris the proudest.
And make him wonder why his son wasn't a full lieutenant but still a junior grade after this.
I always thought that ship reminded me of something, then it dawned on me, it looked like a "Dustbuster" portable vacuum cleaner.
Always remined me of a spoon
Battlestar Galatica.. is closer to a dustbuster. distant "home", insurmountable odds...
The saucer made me think of a toilet seat
@@ianbailey5864 That's what my idiotic older brother said, he even called the Enterprise D the intergalactic pizza delivery ship.
@@eisenklad BG...always looked like a constipated ant to me. Cylon ships were oysters and crushed coke cans.
Brad doruff had an equally complex character in Babylon 5s " passing through gethsemane " episode
I never liked that this episode didn't deal with the fact that Janeway made a piss-poor decision to lead Voyager into an obvious trap and lost several crew members in an attempt to rescue a baby that was probably not Chakotay's to begin with. It should have severely shaken the crew's confidence in her leadership.
That and nobody acknowledged that they broke the prime directive, or even told the Kazon "Hey make sure this planet doesn't have primitive life first." Not even Tuvok bothered to inform Janeway "The Kazon forced us to break the prime directive and should be punished for it." Granted they were all in a firefight for so long, but still... you think the Kazon would be a bit more careful when they're coordinating together among their factions against a single enemy, being the crew of Voyager.
@@DarKKlusteR you don’t punish other people for breaking your laws, especially in their territory on the other side of the Galaxy. Voyager can follow the prime directive and lead by example but that’s all. I’m pretty sure the Klingons conquer under developed worlds to plunder resources and do romulans, but what’s the federation going to do about it? Nothing. The Klingons and romulans made their own choice within their own territory.
Got to remember that janeway and her crew scientists, not a combat crew
To steal a quote from Jessica Rabbit and twist it to meet this narrative -
Janeway: I'm not a bad characer. I was written this way.
@@DarKKlusteR Well, now wait a
Minute! Janeway did not decide on what planet they would be stranded, the Kazon did!
Best scene I ever saw
I love Captain Janeway's charisma and Righteousness she's a great Captain, determined and hopefulness. Engage warp 9,975👍👍👍
Ikr...I get chills every time
she's probably the worst captain in star trek for example she kept making decisions that got her crew stuck in the delta quadrant and slowed them down. she wasnt tough enough. she also didnt full fill the her duty as a captain which is putting her crew first
Malik Hedir and still never get home the universe is aaaaahh big.
Is that baby Naomi Wildman?
Yes.
Ed SR somehow she aged fast
No.
@@trl2151 oh yh her dad or her mum has something alien
No, it's the Wildman's sub-unit.
Would have been very Paris like if he'd said something like "I rather enjoy being in command, might not give it up" in that usual joking way he does. But still one of the best episodes of voyager.
Lon Suder was one of the best characters ever created in a Star Trek series. Basics, Part 2 aired about 5 years after Gene Roddenberry died. If Gene had been alive and in control of Voyager production, that character would have never seen the light of day.
She is a beautiful ship
I have never had occasion to say this... until now. Thank you, Lon Suder.
Naomi sure grew up fast. Of course this could be her papa's growth rate.
Still, a shorter trip back than the JMC Red Dwarf.
Colin Moore SMEG
HOLLY: It takes time this. One slight error in any one of my thirteen
billion calculations, we'll all be blasted to smithereens.
Charles Lee Ray - aka Chucky - saved the day.
The end of an era.
Would have liked to have seen Voyager fly overhead. Get a sense of her size.
The CGI was still pretty limited at that stage. They probably spent more than their normal budget on that effect.
there is one episode where they repair the ship and walk on the hull. you get a good sense of her size there. unfortunately i don't know which episode it is.
Well, look at the size of the windows, then the size of the average human. Look at one of the scenes where they stand next to those windows from the inside, and boom...there's your reference.
@@compmanio36 Good idea.
@Leo I thought of that episode, also.
Chris, that one was in about the second to last or third to last season. Besides the repairs, they just dealt with crew member's relationships and and not any kind of outside, enemy alien threat.
It was a fairly interesting episode that other Star Trek serieses from that time would not have done.
@@TheNoiseySpectator I
That treacherous siska got what was coming to her the first episode of season 3 of star trek voyager ends the kazon encounters and onward to explore the delta quadrant
2:41-2:43 Very nice to see another Starfleet Captain other than Picard saying the magic word here :)
Great episode!
The Kazon were like a Wallmart discount version of the Klingons.
beautiful scene
Yes, it was.
Wow... Brad Dourif really just get a break, does he? Whether it's being punished by Kai Winn or Kazon, he always takes a mental beating
And as a reward for all their help, Janeway ordered all the Alien Tribesmen who had seen advanced technology to be executed....
Starfleet Command couldn't agree more.
The baby's mother is a fantastic actor 😢
she was an ok actress, had a rubbish death
@@AzguardMike I'm really sorry about that.😪
For a moment there, I thought Tuvok was going to say Live Long and Prosper.
Can you please post the scene of Picard confronting Riker in his private quarters in "The Pegasus?" Thank you very much.
That will be the next video that I will post. Thank you for suggest it.
th-cam.com/video/zWdXRkAbo2w/w-d-xo.html
You should take that up with will
Definetly one of the better "cave" episodes in all of star trek.
I think with some gel and dry leaves in his hair Michael Bolton would make a great Kazon.. 😁
Been a long time since I seen Seska
Um dia atravessaremos o espaço. Uma questão de tempo... E estarei em uma nave como a Voyager...Terei essa oportunidade em uma nova encarnação.💫💫💫
When Star Trek had substance & facts had priority over feelings, you know officers behaved with the dignity & stoicism their commission conferred & science was used for human concern.
And there it was the only more episode story arc of the whole show
I really really really enjoyed "Star Trek: Voyager." But I still don't understand why do some people hate it? It's a great series. What's not to like about it?!
Cause it had the unenviable position of following Deep space nine, and while being good, it shot very very high, and didn't quite reach it
Because they phoned in the acting. Because the characters were idiotic. Because they fell prey to everyone in the Delta Quadrant even though they were in a more advanced ship and were faster. Because they used 'magic future tech' to make armor out of nothing...
Many people have many different opinions on the show. Some say the characters are largely uninteresting. That the writing was often subpar. That the show had so much potential but was limited by the episodic structure and frequent use of the “reset” button. I happen to like Voyager (there’s something to love in each of the series) but many disagree.
Voyager was the first Star Trek I watched as a teenager and I loved it, I like all characters in TNG, DS9 and Enterprise but Voyager is special for me like Farscape which was the first space scifi show I watched
When it was good it was good. When it was bad it was dreadful. I found Janeway way too idealistic, she didn't behave like she was in a survival situation. Too many times she stuck to her Starfleet principles and risked her crew getting home for them. I would've liked to see her look the other way a few times. Maybe having those actions brought up in episodes after they got home...
It also ended way too quickly. They could have had another few episodes if not a whole season after they returned home. I would have much preferred to see episodes like that instead of Fairhaven or the doctor trying to get a personality, or Harry Kim trying to get laid.
Also one thing really really bugged me, was the amount of time they were in the delta quadrant and almost being destroyed, they always ended up repairing the ship to showroom condition. As the series progressed it should have started looking more banged up, maybe having parts replaced with obvious improvised "local made" components or alien tech. Show a bit of wear and tear on the ship. Would have been great to see a season 1 USS Voyager and compare it to a season 7 one.
I still enjoyed it, but it could have been done a lot better.
"A NUKE! A NUKE!! A NUKE!!!!!"
How did Tom Paris not get a promotion or commendation for his actions?
He should've at least been a full lieutenant after this, instead of being the junior grade he was the whole series.
Cause Janeway didn't want to promote him for her screw-up
I do wonder what would become of that stone age people. Would they make cave painters of the strange visitors and their sky ship, would in thousands of years time their descendants, a technologically advance race, come across those paintings and wonder what their ancestors were trying to depict. Would they wonder if it was just symbolic or maybe showing something that really happened. And maybe then, once they achieved warp flight and hundreds more years of advancement, make it to the alpha quadrant and encounter the human race and learn to the truth of what really happened of their ancestors so long ago.
That Rumble tho...
Seska = Snitch, and got stitches on this occasion
Many fans like myself said Seska shouldn't have died but returned as an adversary. She's smart, sneaky, witty & cleaver. Thankfully she came back in two more episodes: Season 3 Worst Case Scenario and Season 7 Shattered. The character was in 13 episodes. Martha Hackett said her character was turned from a bajoran officer into a Cardassian spy because the writers needed a villain. She said when Seska died, it was a wimpy death, which it was. Also Seska's baby wasn't Chakatoy's, which also sucked. Chakatoy never brought her up or discussed it with anyone which was typical Star Trek writing.
Interestingly, it was 7 of 9 who brought up Seska again in "The Voyager Conspiracy".
And she was the one who neutralized her in "Shattered".
It sucked that we never found out what became of the half Cardassian half Kazon baby ... Is it a Maje now?
Seska was kinda used up by that point. Chakotay had already been established as having built a bridge and gotten over it. They would've had to do quite bit of retconning to make her stay relevant.
The Doctor discovered the baby wasnt Chakotoy's but they never told him in the episode. And at the end, Seska, the baby AND the Kazon father die. Surely having Chakotoy grieve the loss of his believed son should of been shown, with the Doctor saying with a grin "Not to worry Sir, the boy wasn't yours. I ran a DNA comparison, the child, is half kazon." @@tek512
Seska kind of had very little reason to continue being an adversary. By the time they got to that point, they'd pretty much ruined any chance to make her a good villain. They also could have had the Maje keep chasing Voyager for revenge. The Kazon would have been a good recurring villain, but they did nothing with them after that.
Alternate version: The crew see Voyager approaching them, but Seska and Culluh are still in control. The last thing the crew see is a photon torpedo flying straight towards them.
End series.
Or cullah came to see how many have died soo far
I, for one, wish that Chakotay had been the father of Seska's son. In which case, it would have been a nice touch for him to say to her, "Goodbye, Seska. I'll take good care of our son." Considering she said those same words to him when she took Voyager.
Yet again, he stayed in the Garden at Gallipoli.
Thanks to tom,neelix and his gang, and sutor( ( brad dorrif. Setting a course for the old homestead.
So much for the Prime Detective
Voyager crew didn’t have much choice in the matter. Their ship was stolen by hostile races, then forcibly stranded on the planet, so how else were they suppose to be rescued? Doubt the Kazon cared about Starfleet’s Prime Directive, not their rule, not their problem.
I really would have loved to see Seska fully re-cardassianized.
I like s.t.voyager. It was the first star trek show i had watch and since then ive watch the others as well and enjoyed them. They are all diffrent but theirs an attraction to the star trek series it takes you forward to the future and what could be and enlightens the Imagination. The only thing that i dont like of the voyager series now after watching the star trek univers is that after all those fights the ship is back to 100% efficiency no damage after every battle. It makes no sence. Its like playing easy mode in a game and dont have to worie how bad the ship is getting demoliged as long as the shell is Intact, because the next episode will show it completely Fixed as it was out of dock from a federation Space base. Atleast make it look as it was majerly retro fitted with diffrent alien tech. And make the outside of the ship look diffrent. Sorry for the rant i just had to put it out their
The unexplained repairs and whatnot do have the "We have replicators" hand-wave so i don't find it to be a plothole per say, just a plotditch.
Given replication technology exists in Starfleet is there any reason they wouldn't just replace damaged panels with new ones?
Production reason: All of the Star Trek series had a bunch of "stock shots" of the outside of the ship, to save money they just reused a lot of the same clips between episodes. In later seasons of Voyager they started using CGI more (the earlier exterior shots are motion capture video of actual models) and perhaps could have incorporated damage across episodes, but it would have meant re-rendering the ship for every episode even when that's not part of the story-of-the-week. I.e, lots of extra work (and cost) for little improvement to the story. The 90s was a very different era, when shows were on TV, they couldn't write episodes as if the audience had any knowledge of the previous episode, because there was no Netflix to binge watch them in sequence. They had to stand on their own.
Voyager had industrial replicators so they could create large panels and parts.
They eventually use them to create new photon torpedoes and to build entirely new spacecraft (Delta Flyer). They don't show the weeks between episodes where they fix stuff.
At least that's how I choose to see it.
Thanks guys for the info. It makes sense now😊
*Suder’s Ghost* : …. Because *we,* my friends, have but *one* part to play :
The *God* of *Outcasts.* Nothing more.
ALL TOAST : *The God of Outcasts.*
In Germany, people like Seska are referred to as Kameradenschwein. A Kameradenschwein is someone who behaves in an uncomfortable way, with a lack of solidarity, or who betrays his comrades. Unfortunately, the English term for it is unknown to me
An asshole?
Loved this scene, especially the music. Can you put up the scene from this episode where they escape the cave?
Yes I can.
They forgot Chakoty's tattoo as voyager is landing.
1:03 It's still there but yeah, it should've been touched up.
The natives: We helped the Voyager crew to survive, and all we did get was these lousy t-shirts.
2:11 She is still Breathing😮
Chakotay's whole thing during these episodes pissed me off so much.
Kim: Captain, should we beam some food supplies down as a thank you to our new friends?
Janeway: Negative, Mr Kim. I don't want to have any lasting impact on the natural progression of their civilisation."
Kim: 🤷♂️
Those rocks look like the Hidden Valley in Joshua Tree.
She’s breathing better. What is it? Vicks Vapor Rub.
I preferred Janeway with the longer hair. Miss the series.
Should have had a shot of Paris shooting First Maje Jal Cullah on the bridge on the highest phaser setting and falling down flailingly like the Kazon do in those episodes... But it's Voyager so....
Quando as antigas pinturas rupestres falavam dos viajantes dos céus ou dás Estrelas 🤔🦾👽,,,,.
Still, I think the Seska character should not have been killed off so soon. I kind of liked her ^^
To tell you the truth there was nothing for seska. What they should have done with her was turn her into a person who really wanted to get home more faster and more unethically
The Kazon were the stereotypical bad guys in the early seasons of Voyager. When Seska joined them, they didn't really upgrade to anything except as her minions. The Kazon were also too unimaginative and wouldn't be patient to develop their own tech, preferring to steal it instead. It happens when a civilization is divided into tribes. One tribe tries to get the upper hand by any means necessary. After this episode, and I believe one more, Seska and the Kazon don't return until a season 7 filler episode.
The Borg considered them unworthy of assimilation. That’s a pretty scathing judgement of them considering Seven mentioned the Omega episode they had assimilated primitive cultures.
Another two weeks and it would have been getting Lord of the Flies....
What do you mean?
Only thing missing from this when voyager arrives is the line from Monty Python and the holy grail it’s only a model lol
So much for the prime directive
I doubt PD includes punishment for being stranded on a planet by a hostiles after the said hostiles stole their ship, so they didn't have much of a choice. Besides, what was Tom to do, leave them behind and be on his merry way by his lonesome? Give them a break.
Something about the uniforms without the Starfleet delta just looks wrong. I can't even explain it, but my brain is just shouting 'WRONG!' like the old Lex Luther meme when I see them without their comm-badges.
Lindo lindo.
Tom Paris to the rescue!
Jack Palance didn't need any make-up to play that part.
Didn't know that was him
If it was him he didn't get a credit.
💞💞💞💞💞
I wonder if the voyager crew would of survived long on that planet if they didn't get the ship back. Didn't look like there was much food and water.
The people did. Look at the guy using native plants to calm the baby. Sure some of the crew will die since lack of medicine, at most some will have families.
NyuuMikuru1 i think a lot of the crew would die from thirst. The planet is a hot desert and they couldn't find water to drink.
NyuuMikuru1 it would be very hard to survive. Being hungry, no change of clothes, no way to wash themselves , no bedding .
Steven They have water. You’d be surprise just hiw often water can be found in places you never think. Lived in Las Vegas. Heard wild horses go into caves in awkward position to get water deep in summer.
I loved this series, not really top notch like TNG, but top score never the less
Voyager lands on the planet, and now those aliens have a new God.
And Naomi (the baby) becomes a 10 year old in a couple seasons.
Michael Bell?
edit- never mind it's John K Shull. That makeup makes that entire species look like Michael Bell.:P