The Problems with the Apex Monsters in Monster Hunter Rise - Heavy Wings
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
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The Apex Monsters are new variations introduced in Monster Hunter Rise. While challenging, they leave much to be desired. In this video I will explain some of the problems they have, how other games executed their concept better and how they fail to build upon the Monster Hunter Series as a whole.
Other videos
Monster Hunter Evolution Series
• Monster Hunter Evoluti...
Biggest Hopes for Sunbreak
• My Biggest Hopes for M...
Forgotten Monsters
• The Forgotten Monsters...
Contents:
0:00 Introduction
0:43 RAID SHADOW LEGENDS
3:45 Background and History
6:57 Apex Problems in Rise
11:36 How the Apex Monsters Fail to Build Upon Monster Hunter
12:25 The Deviants
24:27 Arch Tempered Monsters
26:21 Apex Monsters (4 Ultimate)
27:06 Why did this Happen?
29:18 How to Make the Apexes Worthwhile
32:20 Conclusion & Ending
Sources
Rises Rocky Development
www.ign.com/articles/how-mons...
www.eurogamer.net/monster-hun...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology...
SuperRad's invader video
• Monster Hunter Rise Tr...
Music Used in Order of Appearance:
MHR Rampage Theme
MHR Rampage Counter Gong Theme
MHR Apex Monsters Theme
MHR Zinogre Theme
MHR Magnamalo Theme
MHStories Tresse Desert Battle Theme 1
MHGenerations Jurassic Frontier Theme
MHGU Bloodbath Phase 1
MHGU Bloodbath Phase 2
MHGU Valstrax Theme
MHR Crimson Glow Valstrax Theme
MHGen Astalos Theme
MHGen Deviant Theme
MHR Infernal Springs Theme
MHW Xeno'jiiva Phase 2
MHR Narwa Dance Remix
MHR Bazelgeuse Theme - เกม
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Well we kinda know now why the apex are apex monster in rise because of someone who showed his face in sunbreak or better to say did show but at the same time didnt (sry if you already know this an i am telling it again)
And here i thought you wouldn't be immoral enough to sell yourself to scammers.
@PsychoGenius クトヒョウ That was one of the worst "RAID SHADOW LEGEND!" ad reads I had ever experienced. No soul, just switch the thoughts off as he reads off generic garbage they feed him.
Man's talking about a hydra as if it was a unique concept. "Each Design is incredibly unique".
This man literally reviews MH Monsters. This blows.
Yeah raid sucks but mans gotta eat
Raid is worse than apex monsters sorry
Call me weird but I personally wouldn’t mind if they re-used the deviant armor from GU and recolored them to match the apex aesthetic. I really liked the Deviant sets and I’m sure they’d look amazing in the new engine of Rise!
I don't know why they didnt' do that, just the physical design of the sets ignoring the textures are super good, having them recolored to look like the apex's then perhaps unlocking the original deviant colors via the normal hunt quests woulda been a neat little nod to what is obviously diet deviants.
Honestly, yeah. They could literally take the most lazy route possible, just porting the Deviant sets, and we’d all be pretty happy lol.
The real question is why they didn't just bring proper deviants back. It feels really lazy to take an existing concept, slightly change the colors and name, and then take away gear incentives aside from one weapon tree.
@@novero5463 questions that we will never get our answers yet.
@@novero5463 well while normally i would say i agree with this the only apex thats actually different slightly from its deviant is apex mizu cause of the blue bubbles that can inflict hellfire blight on you while with the rest had things related to the deviants they are based on like apex rathian for example had dreadqueen enhanced poison along with her poison spikes that she could set up on the ground
IMO, Capcom didn’t initially intended to have us hunt Apex’s outside of rampages. Theyre were supposed to be exclusive to the rampages, which is why the game launched the way it did. I think it was just player feedback that prompted them to add in the Apex hunts. This would also explain why they never got their own armor sets, as that would be too much work post-launch. Hopefully, this changes in Sunbreak!
That still kinda a poor excuse because if that where the case. While do apex have and literally looked like deviants? They could have done things differently like a pack leader were or a hellfire monster like frenzy monsters but in rampage and you get decorations from those battles.
Honestly , the whole Narwa /Ibushi messing up the ecology causing the monster to get stronger in order to survive is a good way to introducing a system like Frenzied / Apex / Tempered monsters and offer more difficult hunt with better reward but for whatever reason they didn't do that . It get bored doing the same quest over and over again with the same reward chance .
@@joshualighttime604 I think it seems they were developed last and just made reused the concept as placeholder.
Very good answer that makes a lot of sense
That would make sense if you didn't play other monster hunter games. There's always a harder version of each monster in each game at least in world, there isn't a different armor set or weapons. On that note I'd counter your assertion and say Capcom intended them to be fought independently, but they treated them like tempered monsters in world.
To expand on the Apex-Arch Tempered comparison, while the original AT's in world were mostly just shinies with stat bumps, the later ones, especially AT Xeno, Nergi, Kulve, Velkhana, and Namielle, were all amazing fights that took the monsters to new levels and expanded their movesets, so there was a clear show of capcom learning what made their new system good. If the apexes do show up again in sunbreak, hopefully we'll see our criticisms heard and addressed
Not to mention, most of the AT Monsters had their own "Gamma" armour set variants.
Gunna disagree with the "RNG cancel anything into jump slam" AT Nergi, but the others mentioned are top
@OneFortyFour I can't even sleep at night when my friends or brother play that come on and slam song cause it just reminds me of the pain that stupid dragon's massive hit box slam gave and how many time OT screw us over with it.
@@godqueensadie and one TH-camr (who'll remain nameless) was like 'But its fair because you have a whole second to react.' Like I don't know what planet he's living on, but AT Nerg had an insane health pool. So you had to attack it as some point. So if you where in any sort of attack cool down you had NO CHANCE of dodging that slam. I remember a different TH-camr ranting about it. The premise being "If an attack is that quick, it really shouldn't do that much damage." It has little balance to it.
Hated hated hated that fight. Think I got 2 or 3 clears before I said "Hey I've managed it, and the armour rewards aren't worth it."
Arch tempered monsters are kinda a continuation of event quest elders thinking about it Remember Gx/Ex crimson fatalis armour?
Because they are worst versions of Deviants from Gen/GenU with no weapons/armor to back them up...
They aren’t worse versions? Apex Diablos looks so much better then Bloodbath due to its non weird clubbed tail, plus it doesn’t look like it’s coming down with a cold. Apex Zinogre just looks better, and doesn’t have what looks to be a diseased horn. Apex Mizutsune is so much more beautiful then Soulseer. Apex Rathalos has a super cool looking chest, and it’s eyes are completely crossed out making it even cooler. Apex Rathian looks IMO much better then Dreadqueen. Only Apex Arzuros looks worse then his deviant form.
@@gojigiante Its ok, thats your opinion. I still feel that apex look worst than Deviants in general.
@@Lmabark yeah i think the apexes in general look uninspiring, and poorly designed compared to deviants
@@Lmabark agreed, but I think the reason I prefer how they look on GU is because I prefer that art style over rise.
Misspelled worst
Great video. I was so baffled when they released “deviants” with no gear to craft from their hunts.
It goes against the whole MH design & player expectations. I hope they (at least) realize it was a bad decision.
They probably added very late in development just for a boss in the rampage.
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 I get that, but it shouldn’t matter tbh.
I would much rather them delay the release of monsters if it means we get their corresponding gear. Rushing out monsters to meet a deadline despite it not fulfilling the core of their design is a really bad decision imo.
@@Red_Rem I am just saying it probably was not intended design like how majority of the master rank Arch tempered mons were cancelled.
Wait, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the tempered and arch tempered monsters not have any gear and are just harder versions of the fight? I prefer the apex monsters because we're at least getting monsters that look and behave differently.
@@s.i.m.poster6823 Apex monsters are just diet deviants so it's barely a compliment at this point. To answer your point AT monsters did indeed give armour sets (Omega series plus a layered armour too) and this wasn't even a new concept, Hyper monsters in Gens also gave armour sets (R series).
Apex Rise Monster's are actually the first time we've had enhanced difficulty monsters that don't give they own armour sets in a long time. Ofc this is likely due to the difficulties Capcom went though.
Ive fought the apex monsters WAAAAYYYY more but mostly because their rampages give the best rewards for talisman and HR farming. Hardly because theyre just that fun
Wait, so does fighting in specific quest give you better tailisman?
@@gpproject1548 no but rampage tickets and apex materials give a LOT of points towards melding pots so its one of the most efficient farms
I do find Apex Rathalos, Mizu and Zinogre superior to their deviant counterparts in terms of fight alone. Rathian and Arzuros are about the same.
Diablos is the only one I would say is inferior to Bloodbath. Purely because Bloodbath has a really cool design and his massacre phase is tied to the amount of health he has
@@HeavyWings i havent played enough of the older games to have much of opinion on that, i do find rathalos to be pretty cool with the fireball nukes and rathian has some uniqueness but the rest are entirely underwhelming to me
Edit: nvm now that i think of it mizu is pretty cool too, i dont really like the magna fire status effect cause it doesnt feel like theres any lore support for that but i do like the new bubbles
@@aureliaromero8383 the lore for the fire bubbles comes from mizu eating one of the bomb fish(forget the specific name) and this diet caused the mucus it produces to be akin to oil. this was the case for soulseer mizu so I assume it works the same for the apex version.
At the bare minimum, I wish that Apexes gave materials to allow their species' weapon to be upgraded to rarity 7. I like how you start off with 3 weapon choices and slowly gain more and more options throughout the game. It sucks that your options for rarity 7 weapons suddenly narrow to just the elder dragon weapons, the rampage weapon, and one other weapon.
Sunbreak allowing us to reach higher ranks might fix this but I really hope we don't once again end up with this weird curve where the player's options for weapons expands throughout the game and suddenly drops off at the end-game.
You got a really good point on the shift of the develoment making them rebuild te game to be like world, making them run out of time to complete the apex monsters. I swear to god if they make gear and weapons for the apexes in Sunbreak it will be one of the biggest redemptions from capcom in MH
Anyone remember that time when Apex Rajang invaded your early G-rank Desert Seltas quest? Apex invaders could be a great idea.
Terrifying.
Remember the first time you saw Apex Rajang’s rock throw? I do...........
Remember we're rajang wasn't one of the easiest monsters?
@Central Intelligence Agency
I miss expeditions. Those god roll great swords were something else.
Remember when Rajang wasn't sleeping on the corner of the map? hahahaha
They really should've stuck with the Japanese title 'Nushi'. Honestly as long as we get equipment for them I'd be fine with them. Even tho it's just deviants I'm glad they still have the newer moves from them. Which is something I'd like going forward for these state changed monsters, to have newer movesets instead of just stat changes.
What does Nushi translate to? Just curious.
@@LloydTheZephyrian Literally Translated to Leader/Alpha. It was supposed to just be a head of the rampage because it was stronger. That's everything about the "APEX" Rise meant
@@sosoishero funny thing, in french the name nushis/apexes get is really bad, it’s "supérieur" wich would translate to superior, it sounds so stupid
Literally just means Apex. Who cares
@@Nick_Whiskey I mean, Apexes were already a thing, and the fact that the localization team allegedly forgot that is actually kinda embarrassing.
Also, when you say "Apex Zinogre", you now have to specify 4U's Apex Zinogre or Rise's Apex Zinogre.
I do wish they could have just Brought the deviants back as you touched on I have a issue with them lore wise as they just aren't and clear or cool as the deviants, and I really don't like them sharing the same name as the frenzy apexs,
One thing I think could have been cool leading into sunbreak would be if they where mysterious monsters that got revealed to be monsters Malzeno didn't full kill while drinking thier blood, making them crazied powered up undead vampire monsters, I think having a cool reason for the tempered esc system is important,
And your absolutely right armour and weapons are a must and making them Invaders would be a fantastic way to improve them
Apex monsters lore is my biggest problem with them too just them being caught and ibushi's storm making them stronger doesn't make sense to me.
@@izzymosley1970 Ibushi's storm is infused with dragon element, you can see it when fighting Ibushi. So when the wind shreds the monster's skin this dragon element gets injected into their system, which drives them crazy.
@@kingofflames738 no offence but that feels like a very wishy washy answer I don't think that's how dragon element works in the monster hunter world, but hey might be wrong
@@stormerjc9493 that pretty much is how it works. Dragon element can have extreme negative effects on a monsters psyche. A Savage Jho for instance is an old Deviljho that lost control of its dragon element and was thus driven insane. Crimson Glow Valstrax have also lost their minds due to too much dragon element which is why they're causing havoc on all locales.
@@kingofflames738 yeah but those are monster that started with dragon element so they must have some resistance for it to do the damage, I imagine I would kill a lesser creature outright in thar dose
Ok but just want to point out that in the case of a group of 4 and everyone requiring everyone to host at least once, with the exception of the EX hunts, works out since to craft at least each piece of armour and a weapon, you're gonna be hunting each level of a deviant at least 3 times anyway, since you get 2 tickets per quest in GU
Quest leader exclusive progression is the worst part of these games. If you all got progression for participation on a successful hunt, the fastest way would be to blitz through every level since higher levels start randomly dropping lower tickets, then go back and grind out whatever you're missing. It would still take ages, but it beats having to slog through every level 3 times at minimum.
@@FakeHeroFang Oh don't be mistaken, I'm not trying to say it's good, but I am saying it does sort of work out, especially since you'll get the materials with some possible extra mats for upgrading through the ranks without the need to go back later. Its damned if you do and damned if ya dont really
This IS a good point and seemingly the way the system was made to be played, but they kind of had a better answer within the game itself: because higher level deviant hunts would also give lower level tickets in the rewards at random. If they just would have made that a little bit more consistent/gave out more, leader based progression wouldn't have been as necessary to get the materials you needed.
You just nailed every single problem I have with Rise Apex Monsterd. I hope they we get changes in Sunbreak to make them more worth hunting
One counter argument is Sunbreak is not out yet, things can change and you know Capcom is willing to listen
Capcom have so far addressed every major complaint with Rise. Visual effects toggle, optional wyvern riding.
If they can fix the Apexes it will be perfect!
@@HeavyWings Apex armor and weapon is what we want but let temper our expectation and let them surprise us, better than to be disappointed lol
The problem with that counter argument is that we shouldn't have to wait for the 40$ expansion for a basic monster hunter feature
@@HeavyWings they haven't addressed only single armor set for each monster, when every other MH game before this gave you at least 2.
Remember when people were so excited to see what Capcom would do with Apexes in Sunbreak, and then they totally removed the entire concept by doing nothing with it, not even MR versions of the Apexes outside of the random chance of getting one in an Anomaly quest?
As an insect glaive main, I really enjoyed having monsters with bigger hitboxes
Me too as a hammer main, especially when the heads have bigger hit boxes. Giga bonk
They need to bring back all deviants to the monster we'll have in sunbreak,without the multiple levels,that way we can have crimson azuros & snowbaron lagombi sets up their for usefulness.
I just want ma boi Soulseer back, and maybe Bloodbath, he can come too
You're quickly becoming one of my favorite monster hunter channels.
I want to believe development hiccups is what hurt Rise the most because it seems odd they'd drop the ball in so many aspects right after MHW.
Yeah, luckily it seems like a good amount of those hiccups will be rectified with Sunbreak. So far what we've heard has been pretty damn promising.
Keep in mind World also had it's own issues, some fixed in Iceborne and some remain. Particularly the weapon designs.
@@HeavyWings World has MORE issues in my opinion. Rise is a better game hands down. Skippable cutscenes, better hitboxes, more interesting weapon movesets, no RNG decos. There's no doubt in my mind that Rise is "better", it just needs a little love in Sunbreak to really bring it home. They won't fix everything, but they'll fix a bunch.
Indeed, that made for some funny memes tho. MHW had its fair share of issues but I think it had better player retention, granted this was due to a somewhat excessive grind for augment mats, decos or KT gear, that said, it was a reason for me and my pals to log in regularly.
This is obviously anecdotal but in Rise it feels like everyone already has everything and because hunts go by so fast there's barely any reason to play, some in my group have even started a new file in World with a different weapon...
Here's hoping Sunbreak Rises to its Apex
*ba dum tss*
@@TheMaerx to be fair, a big part of that feeling with World is the semi-live service aspects of the game and the more immersive environments. I don't play on a high end PC, so Rise straight up looks better to me, and I've never been a fan of excessive randomization to increase player retention. Just a taste thing, it's always gonna vary person to person. Hopefully they keep leapfrogging between one style and the other, and continue to evolve each to fit its strengths
For title update 3 in Winter for Sunbreak they have listed “powered up monsters” so they may have a new hyper/tempered/frenzied system . Just hope they learned why we didnt like Apex monsters and that it wasnt their fights or challenge
Too bad invading monsters are pretty weak in the 5th gen since you always know that there's 3 monsters on the map. You don't have the surprise of a monster that wasn't there like in the older gens. I'd like to see the number be randomized in the 6th generation.
Invading monsters has never been a popular thing, its been allways hated by the majority of the player base. Now suddently when its gone, people give a damn about it? Sure it was cool once,and it was the first few times deviljho appears, after that it became an annoying problem. No one cared about it.
@@dippking4638 I liked that invading monsters were a thing. I didn't enjoy knowing what monsters were on the map in either 5th gen game. The unpredictability of an invading monster gives an extra spice to the hunt when you get surprised by a random monster coming in that you didn't know about. Sure, if they wanted to hang out a lot it made the hunt annoying, but that's still a thing even with in the 5th gen games. It just feels too clean of an experience in the 5th gen imo. I'm definitely wanting to have a random number of 1 to 3 monsters on the field where you only know about your target monster at the start of the hunt, but I also want to avoid knowing where the monsters are at all times.
Me: Full Valstrax set for 500 Def, lvl 7 Def, lvl 3 divine blessing, lvl 3 thunder resist which also adds 10 Def, 18 thunder resist, dango booster, and dango divine blessing, and feline weakener.
Me: I'm ready for Apex Zinogre. I have almost 700 defense with charms and drinks included and good element defense.
Apex Zinogre ☆7(Emergency): I'm gonna 1 shot you.
Me: 🥲
Slap in fortify and u are rdy to go
@@Zamoxino finally beat him yesterday ~
Rise's Apexes also don't even reward you with titles for hunting a certain number of them like with the other monsters.
I hunted 20 Apex Rathalos expecting that I would be rewarded with a title at least and was dissapointed when I discovered that wasn't even a thing.
Also if I recall correctly I also believe the Apexes don't even have hanging wall scrolls either which you can purchase from Rondine
They have the scrolls. I have one for apex diablos
They don't have titles but they do have scrolls.
I understand the development issues that rise went through. But I find the fact that they never even added new armor and/or weapons for the apexes in an update to be pretty hard to excuse. And if they add it into sunbreak, then it becomes blatant that they cut it for the DLC. Though I can't in good faith say I know even a fraction of what goes into making the game, so perhaps I'm ignorant.
The best excuse I can think of is that they don't know how to "balance" the armor for gen 5's new skill system since the old deviant armor had no decorations and required the full set to be good. But then at least give us the layered armor.
why do all that when you can sell cosmetic DLC and all that? Why put in any effort if capcom fanboys are going to shill for this game no matter what? Hate to say it, but we reap what we sow
@@ashokrohan7232 ?
if they do include the armor as part of Subreak, the non-sunbreak Apexes surely would have their armor available to make without purchasing the DLC. they're planning to update the basegame weather you buy sunbreak or not so that would be one of those changes.
I doubt they would make you pay for it, that would truly be ridiculous
@@princetbug that's if the armor is scaled to high rank which it highly wont be as the new apex armor will be Master rank only and require master rank drops
I don't find that the development issues justify anything, full stop. They had no problem charging full price for it, so it deserves to be judged by the standards of any other full priced game. People need to stop pretending as though development issues even have the potential to justify anything. If they felt sympathy for the customer buying the game, then they would've either taken however much extra time and effort it takes to release a better product, or had it discounted out of the gate. But they don't, so don't hold sympathy for them. People making excuses for these companies, including trying trying to be understanding while they're being taken for a ride, is an enormous part of why the video game industry is such a cesspool right now.
Don't give them the benefit of the doubt. Don't make excuses for them. Hold them to a higher standard, because they have no intention of holding themselves to one.
a 3 minute ad was a bad idea. i dont even want to finish this video now
There IS a small (or not so small) reason to hunt apexes after you unlock their quests: they drop orbs with better chance and usual variants become not so appealing. Sure, early adopters will make all sets using original variants but if there is some rare armors you need to still craft there is no reason to ignore apexes and prefer usual monsters (if armor and weapons are sufficient to hunt apex ones)
I really like this longer video. You made some really valid points.
I think they’re good fights but the issue is what’s the point in doing them besides a little challenge? If they had a purpose with like gear and talismans then I’d be happier. Or just bring the deviants if you’re gonna model them after them anyway. I also want elder dragons and regular monsters to have super versions not just a handful of Apex.
Good video as always, Heavy. I can say I agree 100% with everything you said, and this coming from someone who hasn't played MHG or GU.
Personally I knew from the very beginning (from having heard about them before even getting my hands on Rise) that Apex monsters weren't really a big deal, so honestly I didn't even bother with them, even though I've played for around 150h or so already. They're definitely lacking!
I've really enjoyed this longer video, and I'd like to see more like this, I never get bored of your MH content.
Also I would love if you could make a video sharing your thoughts on the second Sunbreak teaser they showed two days ago, like you did with the Three Lords one! Cheers, and happy to know you're getting sponsored now! ^^ You've come a long way
Making the Rise Apexes Invaders is such a good idea! I never thought of that
Would have been neat if they'd made at least a rampage armor set. Maybe something like Ibushi's and Narwa's HR sets, where you ypgrqde them to a certain level, and then uwe material from the apexes to unlock a new ability and maybe a new upgrade threshold to reach?
The first time I fought apex zinogre I thought it was thunder lord zinogre even the quest mention slay apex zinogre
I have a theory that the Apex weren't even going to be in the base game, they were added at the last minute because honestly, I doubt anyone has tested the Rampage missions and said "Hunters will love it", from there they put something more fun , but the distinctive features of the equipment of these monsters were not yet conceptually finished or they were saved for the expansion, in addition there are inconsistencies in their description, I seriously doubt that a storm has caused them that state, even if it is caused by an ancient, does not explain the scars (there is even a theory that they were attacked by Magnamalo and the hellfire caused them that state), I see it more likely that the cause is Malzeno since in addition to the "storm" the Apex are related to the fact that at some point they were close to death and that image of a zombie or servant of a vampire ends up fitting me more, I would also end up fitting his presence in the expansion since the alleged culprits we removed at the end of the base game, honestly the fact that they don't have equipment is a loss but I think it's worse to simply remove them in the expansion.
Probably one of the reasons why I didn't get into Rise that much is because of Rampages.
I don't want to play tower defense, thats for huge-ass monsters like Lao/Shen/Zorah
I just want to get out there and bonk a monster. Its cool that there are now other means of getting Defender Tickets but I have stopped playing by then lol
@@PsycheTrance65 Yeah the Ramapages would be perfect for larger or more serious monsters. I think the only ramapages I like are the ones with Ibushi it's the only on ethat makes sense
Though with rampages are a stright up blast they suck to do solo though
The only real problems to me with the apex’s is they are literally the deviants in gu and they don’t give you rewards for fighting them, and to me rampage weapons don’t count because I hate them
Rampage weapons are basically the Augmentation system from World without the cancerous 1% required item drop rate from tempered investigation rewards only. They literally just need to flesh it out, and it would instantly surpass world.
Awesome video really love to see people compare the modern games to older generations especially in ways modern MH can learn from them. Would love to see a follow up video on either MH4U Apex's or even Sunbreaks new Risen monsters
Was the MH with the deviants the one on Switch before Rise? I have that, but not gotten into it yet due to not being on Switch much. I played it in Hospital, but didn't get very far.
At least 4u's apex even if they be different made some more sense and arguably made it's elder dragon seem like a looming threat even after you beat it. Granted no armor for both but the fun of apex in 4 is the fight itself watching out for frenzy wystoning up and damage. Also event quest rewards nothin like beating an apex jho and getting some unique weird or cool looking stuff.
You did however get unique materials for 4u's apex's letting you hone weapons(think augments in world). And are the endgame if you include guild quests.(basically post postgame getting you like some stupidly strong relic i think they are called weapons.)
Legit question, has there ever been a game in base that had subspecies? Or were those only in P and G ranked game
I'm still struggling to understand why we can only make special kamura weapons for rampage quests. It feels like the concept for actual armor and weapons were planned but scrapped due to time constraints or other issues cause I want to like the concept but if there is no value to hunt why bother.
I'm new and I cant fight these as they kill me straight away. Is there any good armour sets to help with this ?
Honestly I was pretty disappointed because I assumed there would be alternative gear, only to be disappointed and find that, other than higher drop rates, and a more fun fight, there was very little reason to fight the Apex versions. Hopefully they add the armor variations in sunbreak
Something I would like to add regarding development is the usage of a new game engine: RE engine. Before, they used MT framework. It means developing and adapting everything to a new game engine. In fact, it's why Rise is adding so many monsters with different skeletons, so that they can reuse them in later games. Rise as a MH game is not a game I greatly enjoy, it's ok at best, but I have a feeling that Rise is more of a playground for developers to work around the possibilities of the engine (Rise loading screens, even on Switch, are really short, for example), as well as gameplay possibilities (what if we made fully explorable maps? What if we boosted the mobility of the game to great extents?), so having Apex being this bad is more of a test feature, see how the deviant fights would work in Rise. And again, Apexes have a purpose for Rampage. The issue also lies within the rampages themselves, and therefore everything implemented in them have issues. Those issues transpired to regular gameplay, because the team expected the rampage system to work right, and did not expect players actively avoiding them yet seeking to fight the Apexes.
This doesn't make Apexes flawless, they absolutely aren't, but so are Rampages and so is Rise as a whole. I don't know what they'll do with Sunbreak regarding Apexes, but I hope they now have the necessary knowledge to make them better in Sunbreak. Or maybe for MH6, who knows.
Apex monsters should drop upgrade materials for the base form of armor and weapons. Make zinogre armor, upgrade ir to maximum and then kill apex zinogre, allowing you to further upgrade it, maybe even changing the appearance of the armor and weapons.
Thanks for having chapters! Skipping raid shadow legends was perfect!
Yeah, it's bad enough he went with Raid Shadow Legends, who are EXTREMELY shady, but he went on about the game for 3 minutes, too! Most TH-camrs cut it down to one minute, roughly.
@@LloydTheZephyrian 'bad enough that he went with raid' - you're consuming free content and have the gall to complain about a SKIPPABLE ad. Have some respect for the creators that work around the clock to build their channels and provide entertainment. No one's forcing you to download Raid.
@@hassanraja It being skippable is no excuse for showing any support for a shady company that has allegedly stolen fan content and profited from it. You saying it's okay to basically turn a blind eye to it does nothing about the problem.
It's still nice to see Heavy Wings getting big enough to get attention from sponsors, though, and he can hopefully find better sponsors.
Having the Apex's as invaders would be incredible.
Technically going from Guild quests to Deviant quests the next step was the Investigations from Worldborne and then Rise following with the underwhelming Rampage.
Yeah I didn't talk about Iceborne because it went in a different direction kind of.
World replaced guild quests with Investigations, and Iceborne reused the idea of levelling something up with The Guiding Lands.
Rise reused the idea of super powered monsters with the apexes but they have basically nothing to em aside from rampages.
an entire video essay that can be summarized in "they don't have diferent gear" mind you they drop advanced parts from the monster not just rampage parts meaning if you realy liked apex zin you could have just hunted him over and over and could gave gotten your zin gear that way.
I remeber thinking that apex were monsters mutated by continue fighting inside a rampage horde because so many monsters of different species togheter would bash each eather, but then i observed the dragon energy crakles in arzuros arms amd diablos mouth
3minutes in video add ??? Dear god I hope they payed you well... I was ready to give you a chance but but 2 minutes with a lot of creativity is where I draw the line
They litterally have the deviants moveset, they should have been deviants.
I was expecting special armor and layer armor from them.
So, I never got to the deviants when playing generations, so sadly I don't have the ability to compare against that as a player. But as input from someone who played rise and dealt with the apexes, they truly felt lackluster in rewards. Because I was fully expecting more than a shared weapon line, that isn't exactly amazing itself. Hope Sunbreak fixes that issue.
My most vivid memory is being instantly one shot by a Apex Mizutsune
Lmfao!
Well detailed and well done, but i believe you could have cut this down to 25 minutes easily without missing any details lost
I blame the deviant segment.
For their weapons, there's a possible way of repurposing the current Rampage ones, with a more complex "building" system instead of a regular upgrade and Rampage skilling of weapons. You fully upgrade your regular Rampage weapon and then you can decide to infuse it with Apex parts and their stats would change up to a point.
It could also be a way of "bringin back" Deviants' weapons. Infuse a Rampaga weapon with only Apex Diablos parts and you'll get a Rise version of the Massacre weapons, with their signature terrible affinity and huge raw, maybe accompanied with a unique skill one would associate with Diablos.
I just wish they bring back variants. It adds so much to the game despite not being a lot of work. Then they can just change the name from apex to alpha or mutated or whatever and have them be special optional challenges for pigments, layered armor and weapons and maybe actual armor. Tho I was not personally a fan of how strong deviant armors were in GU so I could do without that.
In terms of the rampages i feel like they are a bit limited by the fact that they can't really do the same thing twice. The frenzy virus would perfectly explain the rampages, and yet they had some random explanation that didn't make any real sense, possibly because there are only so many explanations for this sort of thing, and they had run out.
Man, I wish I could fight Gore Magala in rise
I hope the money's good for a THREE MINUTE ad at the start lol, great content tho I'm getting back into rise for the expansion
The problem with Apex monsters is that they are Deviant Lite monsters. They don't use all of the movesets of their inspirations and they don't really keep up with the quickened pace of hunters once they see what the Deviants can actually do outside of the chaos of the Rampage. Add to it that they don't offer anything outside of Rampage weapons talisman materials and it was a failed concept from the start.
I think they wanted to mesh Safi weapons with Deviant fights, which is a cool idea if it wasn't for the fact that half the enjoyment of Safi was the immensely powerful armor and elemental meta change that came with it. With deviants its much of the same.
I like the customization aspect Safi gave us but I'd prefer it to be tied to one monster. It was really cool imo that the only monster to give us this option was a Red Dragon, and a species we know nothing about other than its immense power, and the fact that all these weapons plus its armor reflected the fact that it comes from Safi, both by being incredibly strong and looking like the monster.
I haven't gotten to deviants in MHGU yet so I can't talk about them too much, bu they are also great since their armor sets give us unique skills relative to their species and also a good looking design.
I only hunted them to complete the quest list and with that made the hunting horn Wich is my main weapon, I have no intention or necessity of hunting them anymore.
My problem with apex monsters is that I get fisted twice as hard but I don’t get the requisite reward for all that internal damage
It's funny how AT monsters in World were considered lazy, even when they had new moves, new AI and had their own gears, with new skill combo.
I mean, their rewards were pretty shallow, and they were also going a bit too far with damage to hunters.
Might I remind you of AT Nergi being able to cancel the endlag of its attacks with an unreactable slam attack?
@@LloydTheZephyrian AT damage was fine - if anything Emergency quests damage are worse.
Pepega slam was pretty RNG (still is), but it was still an addition to the moveset that was not present in the regular version. You're also forgetting AT specific layered armour that required AT tickets, which the Emergency quests don't have.
I'm simply comparing the ATs to the Emergency quests, not the quality of the ATs themselves. Purely on features provided alone, the ATs beat out the Emergency quests on all aspects.
@@viethoang907 Xeno and Zorah were actually great fights, with Xeno's feeling well-balanced and intense, and Zorah's actually not being braindead easy. Kirin, Kulve and Teostra were meh. Not really bad, and were basically the same fight with the monster having more attack and HP.
Val Hazaak and Lunastra both sucked somewhat because they have so much tick damage which is made worse be Val Hazaak having it around the entire area and Lunastra being Lunastra but multiplied by x, and x equalled "what the fuck".
I think Kushala was literally just normal Kushala but more aggressive, and Kushala was already a pain in the ass.
From what I've heard, AT Namielle is basically non-existent, and AT Velkhana is genuinely bullshit with how high its damage is.
Then you have AT Nergi, with more than double the health, among the highest HP of monsters in base World (only beaten by Ancient Leshen and Extreme Behemoth), enough of an attack increase where even the quick, fast attacks are extremely dangerous, and the Pepega Slam. The Pepega Slam is extremely horribly balanced by being fast, aggressive, and he can chain into from anything but The Divebomb™, which unfortunately includes itself.
The rewards are shallow (just tickets for one set of armor and like 2 sets of layered), and they're either godawful or pretty much just the same thing, but with more HP and attack.
I will admit that the Apex Emergencies are about as good as AT Nergi solely on the fact that you get NOTHING from them.
@@viethoang907 you think the emergency quest are bad XD if the red and black armored npc hunters at the canteen in eldgado are indeed the hell hunters it will be way more insane then those XD
Still better than Anomalies
You can use their apex parts to make some of the best skill decos avaliable, but you are right that they should have armor
Wait, weren't the Apex introduced in MH4/MH4U? Because I definitely remember a plot point with a Seregios who survived the Frenzy Virus and became far stronger because of it, and iirc he was called an Apex.
MHGU/MHXX: Hi I heard you was talking about apex.
MH4U: ¿Did somebody said APEX?
Imagine getting 1 shotted with maxed gear and full health learning all of the monsters moves finally beating the monster just to find out you get no new armor no new weapons and crapcom shitting on you that is the meaning of apex monsters
Shit fights. No purpose to complete apex quests other than just to see that red tick on the quest.
this is the reason why i didnt really like rise, i hope they 'fix' this
Im pretty sure the way the apexes got there powers is by being infected or encountering an elder dragon as elder dragons have some supernatural abilities this could enhance the abilities of other monsters/ animals.
Ah that's why, I took major issue with the lack of apex presence and solo fights but even when they were in it seemed hollow especially because it was obvious farming apex monsters were meant to the a major part of the end game.
Honestly think all the apex monsters should have been in the game at launch for starters and available to solo fight the second you defeated them once in a rampage from the get go, the fact that they took up individual content updates by themselves was a major contribution to what tanked my interest in rise however, the other reason was there wasn't a lot of need to fight them either since they were only used for the rampage weapons which may or may not be the best weapon when customized properly.
Considering not all rampage weapons were the best/most optimal compared to specific weapons from specific monsters it really made the entire apex system fall flat... really hope they do sunbreak right, rise failed to engross me nearly as much as world, generations, 4U or 3U did...
Apex is technically Deviants but without a weapon/armor set. The main reason to fight the Apex is the rampage weapons. Some don't craft them just once because the weapon itself is customizable and requires apex materials for that part. And you can't just register the same rampage weapon in a different loadout.
Big facts with the lack of armor. My only thing is these Apex Emergencies are endgame vanilla so the lack of new armors isn’t terrible. Plus the biggest weakness for Rise is how easy it is so I don’t mind fighting stronger monster without any gear progression.
Apex were pretty brutal back in MH4, but they came with a really annoying mechanic: all weapons bounced off of them unless you used a special whetstone, which made the fight pretty difficult in arena, as you had to find a place to take cover and apply the whetstone. I don't remember the rewards, but I feel like it was just more rewarding in general than they are in Rise. These are pretty much here just for the challenge.
Bro landed a sponsor 🔥
The apex's should have stayed rampage exclusive. That's what they were designed for, they never should have left. Take away what made them unique and of course you'd be left with nothing. It was clear from the start they weren't supposed to be hunted normally, they only did it so those who wanted the fight just for the sake of the fight would have a more convineient method to do so.
This is a very insightful video but near the end you said the archtempered monsters didn’t return in dlc, which was very odd to me because archtempered did return in iceborne. I think you were trying to say the monsters that were archtempered did not return as such but it was worded a little oddly.
I should reiterate.
We got new arch tempered forms for Namielle and Velkhana. But the Arch Tempered forms of World monsters didn't return. So no MR AT Kushala, Teostra, Lunastra, Kirin etc.
Man those screenshot are gold mine are only the face of monster right before they bump or charge me some are funny some are scarry
I mostly agree with the vid, but the whole “why did they get new powers” thing was just a dumb point. Given the red markings covering them and the black smoke some of them spew, combined with what we know about the dragon element, it’s pretty clear what happened to them. Ibushi uses dragon energy to manipulate wind, so getting caught in the storm most likely mutated them to an extent. Dragon energy is pretty much radiation. It’s not a pleasant thing to be exposed to for most monsters
Dragon element has never infected anyone and give them mutations. Your explanation makes it seem like a discount Frenzy
@@boshwa20 that is literally just what savage deviljho is. Only difference is that its his own dragon element making him mutate
my only issue is there being no armor and weapons for them, otherwise I think they're fine
>gets youtube premium
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sigh
Maybe they will bring apex armour in the sunbreak? New smith will investigate materials from Kamura (especially apex) and create armour based on them. I'll hope for this, but we'll see.
newly introduced? weren't they already a think in the MH that introduced Seregios?
Hmmm... a possible interresting mechanic once Sunbreak comes and this should be a G-rank only suggestion really . Is that when on a hunt you have a pre determined chance ( lets say 50% ) your hunt will have Apex invade like after the first swap of that occur regularly and they become a forced target to kill and untill the the Apex is slain the other large monster(s) go into hiding. With the onloy benefit is that your quest timer will stop while they are on the field. This would add a conciderable random difficulty to any hunt. And also have those invading Apex go away again if left alone for lets say 5-10 minutes. Though killing it will grant conciderably more rewards . having them as stand alone quests isnt good enough anymore i think , let them be the disruptive invader threat they are supposed to represent. And yes of course , no gear = no point really. As a hunter that played from 2004 that is what every monster needs , its own set of unique gear . Right now i have no reason to hunt Apex in rise , too little incentive.
I hope the developers of sunbreak decide to bring back all the deviants and add new deviants aswell.
There is one heavy reason and is the lack of equipement, for that thing is what apex monsters are incomplete...
I just want them to have weapons and armor. I have zero reason to fight them currently. Hopefully Sunbreak adds equipment for them.
another banger
Honestly...
I miss the deviants.... And the glavenus this Monster was so cool.... Hope they fix it a bit in sunbreak
Part 4 makes the design decisions of Rise make so much sence, why the maps feel smaller, why we don't have the tracking system, why the monster introductions are more akin to pre-world games and why the story also has that pre-world charm to it, Rise was supposed to grab the old formula and just give it better graphics
I'm still thankful that the changes were made, I feel we wouldn't have palamutes if the decision to make segmented maps was kept for example, but I hope with sunbreak they make much needed changes, like implementing a tracking system, after all, iceborne still expanded on the tracking system, with the monsters being hidden even after you collected a good amount of footprints, only being revealed if you know that footprint or if you track them down or stumble upon them, so sunbreak changing how monsters are found wouldn't be that surprising for me
Of course that was only an example that came off the top of my head, but Rise has a lot of things that can be improved and I hope that sunbreak improves it by a lot
Some examples I've seen in the trailers, the citadel seems to be a lot bigger than all of Rise's maps, the monster encounters appear to be more akin to world, where the hunter interacts with the monster as he finds it and they seem to be tackling the difficulty issue with giving monsters new massive AOE attacks that if you're not ready will hit the whole party, giving the enhanced movement a reason to exist. Then again, by the newer trailers they also seem to buffing the hunter even further with the switch skill swap, plus the dodge after the swap, giving you more attacks and a risk free way to change skill with the dodge, so it still concerns me a bit in terms of difficulty, but from what I've seen sunbreak seems to be giving the effort to make Rise even closer to World, which is good to see, since it's what they set ou to do with the changes talked in part 4 of the video
A lot of the things you list were actually design decisions made due to criticism of World but mostly Rises portable design.
Shrine Ruins is mostly the only map that feels smaller, the others are around the same size but are quicker to get around thanks to the open design and Palamutes. The tracking system was changed so that players could reach quickly reach a monster because when playing portably you might not have the time.
Monster intros were changed because this game has less of an emphasis on story, and because World had an issue where cutscenes interfered with multiplayer.
I expect Sunbreak to have the same tracking system, but what you said about getting cutscenes where the hunter interacts with the monster; I think those scenes will be follower quest related, we're still getting traditional Rise intros in the expansion.
The main thing that bothers me is that there’s no apex equipment, the apex monsters look so cool, why can’t we get cool armor
I REALLY wouldn't call Deviant gear strong when all of the armor ranged from terrible to bad mix set skill vise, the only exception being the Silverwind set since it actually offers a skill combination you can't mix for and has decent offensive skills.
That it's true. Besides silverwing and dreadking, deviant armor was hot garbage
You needed the full set to get the special deviant ability and none had any slots
This is the main problem for me in MH Rise: the rewards. Event quest follow the same model somehow. Like you have to fight the biggest threats in the game just to get stickers and poses? Back in MHXX, we had very cool stuff like Jump armor and insect glaive, Samus's armor and weapon, Marth from FE and Link from Legend of Zelda and so on... I don't even see the point of doing most of the event cause the ratio challenge/rewards just makes it uninteresting to me...
I don't understand some of the Deviant critique. If everyone could just get the rewards and completion just by being in the same party wouldn't that kind of get rid of the whole "it feels unique to climb up the difficulty levels and keep crafting better Armor" thing you've been advocating for? At that point you wouldn't even need to get your own tickets to be allowed to fight them or even be ready to fight them Armor wise. You can just join an over equipped buddy of yours and wait for him to finish the quest for you.
I genuinely think that the Apex monsters were only designed for the Rampages, so that a final fight at the end would be interesting instead of just more monsters, and push the hunters all the way to the final gate for a last stand, like it does already. And that you wouldn’t just keep fighting Ibushi or another larger horde of miscellaneous monsters every time.
I believe the seperate hunts for the Apex monsters were implemented not for getting the materials for the rampge weapons, but because they knew some players would want a little bit more of a challenge. Not everyone who plays, plays for an item reward of armor or another weapon, some players’ reward is simply the satisfaction of competing a tough fight after mastering it through many losses.
The Apex monsters do feel a little like a bandaid-fix for post game content, but I don’t think they were meant to compete or be on the level of variants. It honestly feels more like a renamed version of the Frenzy Virus from MH4U.
Also, the quest system for the deviants doesn’t really do anything for the deviants negatively. That was just how the game was designed. The flaw of having to fight the deviants dozens and dozens of times is because of the design of the game and not the monsters themselves. They were insanely tough but their reward was better gear. That would’ve been enough and thats how it usually goes, but in that scenario, the devs decided to increase playtime by making it grindy. The system is also redundant if someone is happy with the gear they have and simply just don’t wish to fight those G-rank quests, or only one of them because they are only towards a single set of gear.
Comparing the fights and designs of the deviants to the Apex monsters, yes the deviants are 100% better and cooler and I hope we get a nice selection in Sunbreak.
Despite all the problems with them, I still love them, just wish they had their own armor set and weaponry
I hadn't really thought about the comparisons to the deviants from GU, but the deviant hunts are infinitely more special and enjoyable than the apexes. A deviant hunt gives the promise of an exhilarating fight that keeps you on your toes and some of the coolest looking weapons and armor in the game. I have literally no reason to do the apex hunts other than that they're the hardest hunts in the game right now, but that's not quite enough to make me want to hunt 10 of them in a row like I did with Grimclaw Tigrex. I don't even care for the rampage weapons, I tried them out and it seems like they can be decently viable but when you already have meta sets for Rise's endgame it's pointless. I still have hope that they'll fix it in Sunbreak, though! Rise is still a great game, it definitely has its issues but I can't wait to see what they've improved next month!
10:34 We know its because of Ibushi's dragon energy
15:58 The Rise 'deviants' pretty much are just carbon copies of the Deviants in G/GU
26:34 I agree, the English team really should've picked a different name
You get Material for Decorations tho … Crit Boost for example
It feels like it would have been so easy for them to make a simple addition to the weapons trees, giving the ability to craft apex weapons. As far as the rampage gear, I think that the base kamura weapon is fine for the first stage, because it serves as a base, and rampages are specific to kamura. What I think SHOULD happen is every time the weapon is upgraded, the parts from the apex monsters should show up in the weapons design. In the final version, there should be arzuros and mizitsune fur along the shaft, rathalos and rathian claws aligned with the blade, etc. That would have made the weapon feel more unique. To that end, I think there should have been more apex parts required for each stage, so that there was more achievement in getting to that stage.
Imagine needing extrinsic rewards to enjoy a fight. Couldn't be me.
I REALLYA hope in Sunbreak they add armor and weapons for the apex monsters.
That means we had to wait for the 40$ expansion for a basic monster hunter feature
@@boshwa20 To be fair world didn't have any deviants or different combat arts. Every game has it's own "features". Better to get it as DLC than not at all.