Yeah the bosses will "button read" you, if you use an attack mirror they'll use magic and if you use a magic mirror they'll use physical. In later SMT games if you do this on a boss they'll make the mistake once (like use a physical after you used an attack mirror) and then afterwards they'll learn from their mistake and almighty spam.
I mean it's not really button reading when they can see you doing it. In Persona 5 Royal the Reaper will spam Megidolaon if even a single party member has Makarakarn (or Madarame's Will Seed accessory)
you should’ve seen my face when lucifer decided to crit me 2 times in a row just at the part when i was about to finish him off (after he casted his first diarahan btw) overall this is what we like to call here.. the cturne experience
fun fact: if you use attack mirror, bishamonten will only replace his physical attacks with megidolaon, which is actually not that threatening if he doesn't use makakaja and if you already have suku and rakukajas up, plus it prevents him from spamming normal attack crits
@@Windermed Keeping the Demi Fiend alive should always be a priority since his death is an automatic game-over; your other demons had endure anyway so you could've afforded the heal even without the added protection.
Wait, I thought dekaja removed all buffs so if he debilitated, wouldn’t bisha be minus 1 on all stats? (Bro was still cooked no matter what but just asking)
@@geisterwolf397 Who cares about the miniscule change in difficulty? I beat Lucifer with the original Dante in my party who didn't have Pierce back then. I have nothing to prove to that fool.
Demi Fiend: "Heal? or protection?, hmmm... I'll protect myself and my demons" Bishamon: "I've been waiting for this" 😈 Don't worry, to become the best you stand up each time you fall, like no one else. Great video, keep it up
not to mention the average SMT fan probably has a repel resistance towards any girl that they like (which also means not even any girl that has Pierce will be able to get to them)
My negotiation skills have imrproved. Instead of they running on first date, they now give me money because everyone thinks I'm poor. (Need to equip Beg on your skill list). Later, I will be requesting objects.
Yeah, that second fight with Bishamonten is one of the most intense and difficult boss fights in the game, especially if you're playing on hard mode. My last playthrough was on hard mode and he put up quite a fight even though I had three party members with Debilitate. At least the other three bosses there aren't as difficult so it's mainly Bishamonten who is the obstacle to getting the Masakados magatama. Though you have the ability to get Deadly Fury and Freikugel before this fight and using either of those with Focus if your Demi-fiend has maxed out strength and luck paired with four levels each of Tarukaja and Debilitate (or War Cry) should take out Bishamonten in just a few hits. If you have that kind of build, you might also be able to one-shot the other bosses in that area even on hard mode if you use Freikugel.
He sucks if you get your 4 Rakukajas rolling out of the gate, add war cry into the mix and a magatama that resists phys and he can no longer drop you in one turn even if he tunnel visions on Demi. Any arrangement of null+ phys demons pretty much renders him unable to kill anyone since his dangerous moves are all physical and by thay point in the game there are plenty of easy to get phys strong demons.
@@HemestalTrue in a vacuum - but here is the thing, Bishamonten always strikes first, and his most dangerous move besides his basic attack is Megidolaon, which he can telegraph with 4 Makakaja
Why did you Debil then use Dekaja? That defeats the purpose of the Debilitate. Boss is at +4 ATK 0 MAG 0 DEF 0 SPD buffs You Debilitate him, now at +3 -1 -1 -1 You then Dekaja which makes all positives go to zero, now at 0 -1 -1 -1 Doing it the other way around means you reset him, then debuff the attack, putting him to -1 -1 -1 -1 Also, Bishamonten just has Megidolaon and has an attack string where he goes Makajaka x4 I to Megidolaon. It's a pretty common opener for him to use, in fact. Here he didn't actually read your mirror and go for it because of that. He can read your mirror, but he will still do everything normally but swap physical moves for Megidolaons, so if he read your mirror here, then he would've used Tarukaja 4 times to precede a physical move, then on last press turn read your mirror use and swapped his physical move for a Megidolaon. And yes, if you mirror then he goes for his non buffing Phys attack string, he will cast 5 Megidolaons in a row!
@@danguy6591 Dekaja sets any positive status buffs to zero. If someone used Tarukaja once then was War Cried, they'd be at -1 Phys ATK -2 Magic ATK. Dekaja here would have no effect, because there are no positive stats. Buff and debuff spells cancel each other out in Megami Tensei. It's always been like that. Hell, it literally tells you that's what's happening in the Persona games with the notification that appears when you get hit with a debuff while you have a buff on. Please go play the game and test this stuff before commenting. I know what I'm talking about.
@@lefthandedscout9923 you clearly don't because bishamonten used 4 tarukajas at his 1st turn making it +4/0/0 and after delibilate it was +3/-1/-1. Buffs in smt stack up to 4 times, unlike persona where they don't. Play real shin megami tensei game, you casual.
@@danguy6591 well, Phys ATK and magic atk are tracked differently in nocturne so it's actually +4/0/0/0 anf then +3/-1/-1/-1, but yes you are correct there. Oh wait. That's literally what I said in my first comment. Go read the first paragraph again. Then from there, you Dekaja, and the positive gets reset to zero, which puts us to 0/-1/-1/-1, right? Which, again, is exactly what I said in the first comment. And if you did it in the reverse order, using Dekaja first, then using Debilitate afterwards, then you get Dekaja puts him to 0/0/0/0, and Debilitate puts him to -1/-1/-1/-1. Oh wait. That's exactly what I said in the first comment. Please go back and read what I said before replying again. Thank you.
A year later i know but nahh bro you were perfectly fine thinking he would do another physical move after 2 full turns of physical buffing and attacking. Like bruh the makakaja spam was what got me laughing so hard , bro humbled tf outta u that turn 😭. I bet u was flabbergasted seeing that shit start 😭
smt just seems like one of those masochist franchises where the happiness comes only after 2 hours (excluding the grinding of course) of bashing your head into a wall.
I freaking love this in this game because the IA knows how to use its resources, some bullshit happens regarding RNG, but the battle in this video IS "fair". Love it!!
@@arbi9506 Xenosaga 1 no, 2 and 3? Yeah. Over the years smt has def become more popular cause TH-camrs talk about it more while for some reason no one ever talks about saga lol
If it helps, Nocturne was technically my first SMT game after P3 FES so it was kind of my first SMT game. It’s not that difficult to get through imo. The boss that I fought in the video is just one of the many optional bosses in the game and this one in particular was one of the optional bosses to unlock one of the strongest Magatamas in the game (Magatamas basically contain skills you can earn as well as what your weaknesses/resistances are) Still, if you need an SMT game that could help you get into it from Persona I highly recommend playing SMT IV or Devil Survivor. Both games have more focus on the characters and Devil Survivor’s sequel even has a social link system.
I was using an infinite MP build on Daisoujou which would allow him to regenerate his MP easily (via Meditation) plus considering that Mediarama gives me like 75% of my health back and is wayy cheaper than Mediarahan i thought that it'd be better to give him that skill instead lol (while having Prayer there in case i need an emergency heal up and remove everyone's status ailments at the same time)
Don't sell yourself short. It's actually not that hard as long as you don't play on hard mode. Every boss has some kind of strategy. Most of the time I enter a boss fight expecting to lose the first time. I tend to fuse up a team and obliterate the boss on my next attempt.
@@sonicbhocyeah tbh I thought hard would be too much for me but normal has actually been a bit disappointingly easy so far, I have to admit though I really don't want to deal with the lack of money on hard mode lol. I do expect the game to humble me at some point though, I'm still pretty early game
You can switch difficulty in any moment in HD Remaster, for example on Mercifull / Normal only for buying items for default price / not for higher price like in Hard. Then you can go switch on Hard only for boss battles or random encounters. @@somebodyyoudontknow3980
"... What do you mean you didn't think the boss who attacks with primarily Physical damage wouldn't also have access to the strongest magic possible? Its only common intuition! For Heaven's sake, do you think you're playing _Pokémon_ here?! Listen, if you can't be bothered to take this game and its mechanics seriously, then that's your own lookout. Apathetic bloody Demifiend- I've no sympathy at all!"
To be fair the attack mirror was a good idea but other moves before that were questionable. Doing debilitate then dekaja for exemple. Or throwing a makakaja before being in a position to survive the fight when passing could have been a valid option to hasten debuffs (or, this time using the attack mirror but before disaster not after). It's often the case where none of a person individual moves are bad, but lack of planning and accounting for all the ressources available leads into deadly scenarios that were avoidable. Not that this boss can't be unfair (it can just decide to kill you if it wants to and you can't do much about it lol) but there was clearly room for better decisions even without extra information available than what we see here.
Yeah the bosses will "button read" you, if you use an attack mirror they'll use magic and if you use a magic mirror they'll use physical. In later SMT games if you do this on a boss they'll make the mistake once (like use a physical after you used an attack mirror) and then afterwards they'll learn from their mistake and almighty spam.
I mean it's not really button reading when they can see you doing it. In Persona 5 Royal the Reaper will spam Megidolaon if even a single party member has Makarakarn (or Madarame's Will Seed accessory)
What is even the point of those spells/items in that case?
.they work great in the Persona games
i believe you refer to demi fiend fight in smtv correct?
@@FSVR54 cut down on their options and catch out demons thst have no choice but to proc it.
To be fair tho as a player i would do the same.
The demons aren't dumb after all
I can't imagine your fucking face when bishamon casted 4 makajakas before he casted megidolaon lmfaoooo
you should’ve seen my face when lucifer decided to crit me 2 times in a row just at the part when i was about to finish him off (after he casted his first diarahan btw)
overall this is what we like to call here.. the cturne experience
Tears
When I saw him pop 4 makakajas bro was dead before he even hit megidolaon
😂😂😂😂😂😂
i knew bishamon would just followup with magic
This is the greatest sentence of all time
that 4 makakaja megidolaon was fucking personal
I started laughing maniacally the moment you pulled an Attack Mirror 💀💀💀
fun fact: if you use attack mirror, bishamonten will only replace his physical attacks with megidolaon, which is actually not that threatening if he doesn't use makakaja and if you already have suku and rakukajas up, plus it prevents him from spamming normal attack crits
4 makakajas into megidolaon is something bishamon can just do randomly regardless of whether or not you use a mirror
I don’t even know what i was thinking at that point 😭 I knew i should’ve just used a Bead instead
@@Windermed Keeping the Demi Fiend alive should always be a priority since his death is an automatic game-over; your other demons had endure anyway so you could've afforded the heal even without the added protection.
@@legoferrari14 I figure he was worried about demi-fiend being two-tapped again since endure was down.
1:29 im crying dude he had ENOUGH
His innate gullibility: *_very much_*_ taken advantage of!_
vote for shin megami tensei nocturne
Having someone with Dekaja and Dekunda is a must at endgame. Even if you have buffs and debuffs, those can only do so many levels in one full turn.
He did, but then Bishamonten proceeded to kill Vishnu
>Dekaja after debilitate
>ATTACK MIRROR
deserved
fair enough
Why? (I've barely played this game I literally don't know why)
he wasted his mp on debilitate since he was just gonna dekaja anyways, and then attack mirrors when bishamontens attack isnt as high@@Paranuui
@@Paranuui The dekaja nullified the debilitate and brought the demon to its base stats, essentially wasting a turn
Wait, I thought dekaja removed all buffs so if he debilitated, wouldn’t bisha be minus 1 on all stats? (Bro was still cooked no matter what but just asking)
>No Fog Breath
>No heal Demi-Fiend
>No Raidou
This man is NOT playing Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne
@@souakadpadkid6685
Dante > Raidou
@@ToveriJuri Raidou > Dante
If you pick Dante version you'll have an easier Lucifer fight which is boring.
@@geisterwolf397
Who cares about the miniscule change in difficulty? I beat Lucifer with the original Dante in my party who didn't have Pierce back then. I have nothing to prove to that fool.
@@geisterwolf397 sweat
The buffs were just insult to DEATH, that megi would kill you regardless at 1 hp.
DAISOUJOU’S BELL MAKES A LITTLE DINGY NOISE I’m so happy
There's a mod that adds in his screech he makes when using Meditation.
Demi Fiend: "Heal? or protection?, hmmm... I'll protect myself and my demons"
Bishamon: "I've been waiting for this" 😈
Don't worry, to become the best you stand up each time you fall, like no one else.
Great video, keep it up
lmao loved how he changed to almighty
After buffing himself to +2 in magic of course.
Reading through the comments on these kinda videos, it's clear that SMT fans can't get laid because they try to War Cry at the start of every date
Not unless I have seduce on my skill list through fusion.
not to mention the average SMT fan probably has a repel resistance towards any girl that they like (which also means not even any girl that has Pierce will be able to get to them)
My negotiation skills have imrproved. Instead of they running on first date, they now give me money because everyone thinks I'm poor. (Need to equip Beg on your skill list).
Later, I will be requesting objects.
@@moister3727Sounds like you need to level up your Charm stat
>he didn't buff himself in the first turn
NGMI
Yeah, that second fight with Bishamonten is one of the most intense and difficult boss fights in the game, especially if you're playing on hard mode. My last playthrough was on hard mode and he put up quite a fight even though I had three party members with Debilitate. At least the other three bosses there aren't as difficult so it's mainly Bishamonten who is the obstacle to getting the Masakados magatama. Though you have the ability to get Deadly Fury and Freikugel before this fight and using either of those with Focus if your Demi-fiend has maxed out strength and luck paired with four levels each of Tarukaja and Debilitate (or War Cry) should take out Bishamonten in just a few hits. If you have that kind of build, you might also be able to one-shot the other bosses in that area even on hard mode if you use Freikugel.
He sucks if you get your 4 Rakukajas rolling out of the gate, add war cry into the mix and a magatama that resists phys and he can no longer drop you in one turn even if he tunnel visions on Demi.
Any arrangement of null+ phys demons pretty much renders him unable to kill anyone since his dangerous moves are all physical and by thay point in the game there are plenty of easy to get phys strong demons.
@@Hemestalthis guy knows what's up
@@HemestalTrue in a vacuum - but here is the thing, Bishamonten always strikes first, and his most dangerous move besides his basic attack is Megidolaon, which he can telegraph with 4 Makakaja
suku best buff/debuff, cant kill you if cant hit you
Bishamonten's basic attack has 100% accuracy regardless of buffs and debuffs
>Has fog breath, doesn't use it
Deserved
Why did you Debil then use Dekaja?
That defeats the purpose of the Debilitate.
Boss is at +4 ATK 0 MAG 0 DEF 0 SPD buffs
You Debilitate him, now at +3 -1 -1 -1
You then Dekaja which makes all positives go to zero, now at 0 -1 -1 -1
Doing it the other way around means you reset him, then debuff the attack, putting him to -1 -1 -1 -1
Also, Bishamonten just has Megidolaon and has an attack string where he goes Makajaka x4 I to Megidolaon. It's a pretty common opener for him to use, in fact. Here he didn't actually read your mirror and go for it because of that. He can read your mirror, but he will still do everything normally but swap physical moves for Megidolaons, so if he read your mirror here, then he would've used Tarukaja 4 times to precede a physical move, then on last press turn read your mirror use and swapped his physical move for a Megidolaon.
And yes, if you mirror then he goes for his non buffing Phys attack string, he will cast 5 Megidolaons in a row!
Because he sucks 😂, but the Game is hard and unfair😅
Dekaja removes only -kaja spells aka buffs, delibilitate is a debuff spell, aka -nda spell, dekaja doesn't affect them
@@danguy6591 Dekaja sets any positive status buffs to zero. If someone used Tarukaja once then was War Cried, they'd be at -1 Phys ATK -2 Magic ATK. Dekaja here would have no effect, because there are no positive stats.
Buff and debuff spells cancel each other out in Megami Tensei. It's always been like that. Hell, it literally tells you that's what's happening in the Persona games with the notification that appears when you get hit with a debuff while you have a buff on.
Please go play the game and test this stuff before commenting. I know what I'm talking about.
@@lefthandedscout9923 you clearly don't because bishamonten used 4 tarukajas at his 1st turn making it +4/0/0 and after delibilate it was +3/-1/-1. Buffs in smt stack up to 4 times, unlike persona where they don't. Play real shin megami tensei game, you casual.
@@danguy6591 well, Phys ATK and magic atk are tracked differently in nocturne so it's actually +4/0/0/0 anf then +3/-1/-1/-1, but yes you are correct there.
Oh wait. That's literally what I said in my first comment. Go read the first paragraph again.
Then from there, you Dekaja, and the positive gets reset to zero, which puts us to 0/-1/-1/-1, right? Which, again, is exactly what I said in the first comment.
And if you did it in the reverse order, using Dekaja first, then using Debilitate afterwards, then you get Dekaja puts him to 0/0/0/0, and Debilitate puts him to -1/-1/-1/-1.
Oh wait. That's exactly what I said in the first comment.
Please go back and read what I said before replying again. Thank you.
Bishamon with ,,Win pose'' after using Megidolaon
"Good strategy. Unfortunately. *Megidolaon*"
A year later i know but nahh bro you were perfectly fine thinking he would do another physical move after 2 full turns of physical buffing and attacking.
Like bruh the makakaja spam was what got me laughing so hard , bro humbled tf outta u that turn 😭. I bet u was flabbergasted seeing that shit start 😭
smt just seems like one of those masochist franchises where the happiness comes only after 2 hours (excluding the grinding of course) of bashing your head into a wall.
I mean it’s an endgame boss lol
really good Boss AI
That's rough buddy!
Bishamon litteraly said "Not today, dude !"
I freaking love this in this game because the IA knows how to use its resources, some bullshit happens regarding RNG, but the battle in this video IS "fair". Love it!!
Ah yes, definitely a SMT Nocturne certified moment
bro got pissed off when you used that mirror
need a demon with null phys, like a daisoujou with drain element skills
1:39 god damn lol
They should make persona game like this cuz the boss are babies
I expected his turn to end after casting 4 makakajas not for him to pull out a Megidolaon 💀😭😭😭
Phy Reflec...
Bishamon KEWK Almighty damage
Damn ya dude took that shit personal and said . You gonna reflect me? I got one even better 😂
Fog breath wouldve saved you xD i knew when you used the physical sheild megi was coming 😂
SMT pvp experience
hahahhahahhahahahaha that was hilarious! specially the megidolaon
>using attack mirror instead of a bead
i'm confused how is he not healing demi-fiend
Bro that feels so bad
"nice Arahabaki impression. Unfortunately, Megidolaon"
Why does it look as if it is sped up? Even the megidolaon animation ends before the sound, how come?
The 60FPS mod for the PC version of nocturne messes with animation timing a bit
It does kinda blow my mind that SMT gets ported everywhere and no one touches Xenosaga. They would sell really well on Switch.
Isn't Xenosaga way more niche than SMT though?
@@arbi9506 Xenosaga 1 no, 2 and 3? Yeah. Over the years smt has def become more popular cause TH-camrs talk about it more while for some reason no one ever talks about saga lol
Cause bamco is dumb
megidolaon outta nowhere brah ngl im gon tweaking if he do that
megidolaon jumpscare
Debilitate < Dekaja
Imagine not having prayer on daisoujou
I did have Prayer on Daisoujou to be fair
When he cast makakaja after the player put attack mirror i immediately panicking
said no one ever
HD version of the game too 😭 imma keep playing persona, yall be easy tho! 💯
If it helps, Nocturne was technically my first SMT game after P3 FES so it was kind of my first SMT game. It’s not that difficult to get through imo. The boss that I fought in the video is just one of the many optional bosses in the game and this one in particular was one of the optional bosses to unlock one of the strongest Magatamas in the game (Magatamas basically contain skills you can earn as well as what your weaknesses/resistances are)
Still, if you need an SMT game that could help you get into it from Persona I highly recommend playing SMT IV or Devil Survivor. Both games have more focus on the characters and Devil Survivor’s sequel even has a social link system.
Jim Reaper's challenge runs show us that whatever the complain is about this game, it truly is a skill issue :)
true. I don’t know how that mad lad does it but his challenge videos truly shows just how much of a skill issue it can be.
Shin megami tensei 3 nocturne would never take advantage of our innate gullibility unlike kingdom hearts 2
4 makakajas lmao
Mediarama on Daisoujou????
I was using an infinite MP build on Daisoujou which would allow him to regenerate his MP easily (via Meditation)
plus considering that Mediarama gives me like 75% of my health back and is wayy cheaper than Mediarahan i thought that it'd be better to give him that skill instead lol (while having Prayer there in case i need an emergency heal up and remove everyone's status ailments at the same time)
@@Windermed it p much self sustains. Mediarama is just a wasted skill slot
This is why I don't play mainline SMT. I'm not good enough to handle these kinds of fights.
Don't sell yourself short. It's actually not that hard as long as you don't play on hard mode.
Every boss has some kind of strategy. Most of the time I enter a boss fight expecting to lose the first time.
I tend to fuse up a team and obliterate the boss on my next attempt.
@@sonicbhocyeah tbh I thought hard would be too much for me but normal has actually been a bit disappointingly easy so far, I have to admit though I really don't want to deal with the lack of money on hard mode lol. I do expect the game to humble me at some point though, I'm still pretty early game
You can switch difficulty in any moment in HD Remaster, for example on Mercifull / Normal only for buying items for default price / not for higher price like in Hard. Then you can go switch on Hard only for boss battles or random encounters. @@somebodyyoudontknow3980
Theme?pls?
Just search "One more god rejected"
@@ahmadbemby451 except its not the "one more god rejected" theme, its the boss theme (legit just called boss battle).
Hardtype?
"... What do you mean you didn't think the boss who attacks with primarily Physical damage wouldn't also have access to the strongest magic possible? Its only common intuition! For Heaven's sake, do you think you're playing _Pokémon_ here?! Listen, if you can't be bothered to take this game and its mechanics seriously, then that's your own lookout. Apathetic bloody Demifiend- I've no sympathy at all!"
To be fair the attack mirror was a good idea but other moves before that were questionable. Doing debilitate then dekaja for exemple. Or throwing a makakaja before being in a position to survive the fight when passing could have been a valid option to hasten debuffs (or, this time using the attack mirror but before disaster not after).
It's often the case where none of a person individual moves are bad, but lack of planning and accounting for all the ressources available leads into deadly scenarios that were avoidable.
Not that this boss can't be unfair (it can just decide to kill you if it wants to and you can't do much about it lol) but there was clearly room for better decisions even without extra information available than what we see here.
I don’t get the quotes, nobody says this.
skill issue
Skill issue
you deserved that L
ok
That was just poor play.
to be fair tho i didn't think he would pull a megidolaon at that second
just like every other encounter i've had up until this one
@@Windermed that’s why rakukaja is important. War cry and debilitate also help a lot.
@@Warchief-te9jj this, Rakukaja, War Cry and Fog Breath are a must in any point of the game
should've had Endure imo just saying
They did have Endure
He did - even if he were to heal up, the second Megidolaon would have still wiped him
skill issue not sorry...
*Demi Fiend throws an attack mirror*
Bishamonten: "Heh, cute."
Skill issue