Perfectly Accurate 3D Prints using Horizontal Expansion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2019
- Chuck shows you how to get Accurate 3D Prints using Horizontal Expansion in the Cura Slicer. Even with a proper setup 3D printer you can end up with prints that are not exact. Using the Horizontal Expansion feature in Cura you can dial in the perfect slicing settings to give you that perfect sized 3D Print.
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This is why i love this channel so much! Thanks!
I’m new to 3D printing and I have to say I’m completely hooked, I’m retired and have plenty of hobby time when I’m not riding my motorcycle. I bought the Creality Ender 3 pro. I’m a retired machine builder and manufacturing technician so it all seems natural to me experimenting and tweaking settings. I have the newest version of Solidworks and love being able to print the parts that I can draw. I’m amazed how close the tolerance is on my printed parts to my drawings. I would use Solidworks at work to design parts but just send them to the model shop and never realized how fun printing in 3D can be.
Glad you like it, it’s awesome and will only improve from here.!
The expansion feature is quite handy for changing/fixing dimension errors caused by the Filament. It should be no excuse for avoiding a proper calibration of the x,y,z and e step rate. If the printer should move 10mm and moves 10.2 one should fix the overall step calibration before fiddling with the expansion rate, especially as this is the only way to fix a single dimension.
Oh man. Thank you so much... This was driving me absolutely insane! There's a setting for holes now as well. I've been making endcaps for switches and this finally allowed me to make the right sized ones!
Saw this video a couple of days ago and its great! Absolutely works! Being a perfectionist i done a few prints to test some holes i have been having problems with (coming out wrong sizes) , and they came out with 0.1 difference. So i started experimenting with heat and speed on PLA with the expansion settings and bought it down to 0.05!!! The prints came out with a nice fit on parts being put together
Thanks again and be safe! Subbed, liked and gonna watch some more videos!
After watching I had to subscribe to your channel! You give us the kinds of information that is useful, & helpful with figuring out how to make our 3D printer function precisely, & properly. THANK-YOU!
Thanks for the short and sweet explanation, new to 3d printing , was having problems with getting accurate prints, this should help a lot. Thanks for sharing.
If you're not running a barrage of tests on your 3d printer (and without asking everyone else what they use), then you're wasting your time. You need to test all filament, even down to different colours in some instances. Temp towers, extrusion multiplier tests etc etc This way you will understand your printer in its environment and conditions.
The misinformation out there, is so often repeated and believed, you end up unable to convince rational people they are looking in the wrong places. Most people still dont realise that the Creality print head and the way it cools things is just wrong. It leaves you without the ability to control all aspects of the part cooling process and you will receive 40 ill informed answers when you cant control stringing etc.
Test everything! and Chuck is always right :-)
Thanks Chuck for sharing tips and tricks for Cura slicer!
Another awesome video. I have learned so much from you and please keep teaching me. I cannot express my thanks, can't wait for the next video. I'm addicted to you, the channel and 3D printed.
Thanks. Using any of the affiliates is thanks enough.
Hey Chuck, big big thanks for this. Finally i have really precise prints!!
Super setting, thank you for showing us all how to use it.
Thank you for the perfect Friday video! Cheers Chep (:
Great video Chuck. Something everyone should know and use.
My sincere thanks for your very clear instructions. As a newbie I have learnt quite a lot from you.
Glad I could help.
Very nice tip i was always struggling to make fit my project parts !thanks a million times!!
CHEP you are still an inspiration about the details. That horizontal feature can avoid changing the CAD file :)
Cool, your videos really help me a lot :)
Thanks Chep for sharing!
Thanks for explaining this!!! I needed this!
I didn’t need all the tools from your kit but I bought one anyway!
Thanks
If anyone interested, this setting is also avaiable in PrusaSlicer called XY size compensation under print settings-advanced.
I did not know you can use it like this before, I only used it if I needed thicker walls on badly designed stl, lol...
I've been looking for a video just like this to adjust my printer's dimension accuracy. Thanks.
Chasing the algorithm is serving you well, and this is a very useful and informative video!
Hi Scott. I’m not really chasing an algorithm as it’s constantly changing. That’s a useless endeavor. What I focus on is the 2nd part of your comment. Sharing useful info and experience to help beginners become successful and it seems to be working.
I already have all these tools from purchases prior to getting into printing (except the print removal tool), but I have never seen such a well thought out package. Usually you have to get all these separately. Awesome as always CHEP!
It’s mainly targeted towards someone getting started with 3D printing.
Great video Chep, just printed my cube and needed help adjusting my cube and BAM found this video
Thank you chep!!! It was driving me crazy!!!
thanks Chuck. very useful and unknown to me tip once again!
Subscribed as found this to be what i had been searching for.Thanks.
Welcome
Omg, thank you so much. I have an Ender 5 pro and the cr30. This helps a lot.
Always concise and intelligible. Thanks 👍
THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!
Nice job on the new toolkit!
Thanks
Right on time, i just figured i had a problem with that. Thanks
More and more convinced to switch to cura. Thanks!!!
Simplify3d calls I horizontal size compensation and Slic3r/PrusaSlicer call it xy compensation.
Thank you so much! Very useful and unique info!
Excellent! this is so helpful thanks a lot!
GREAT VIDEO AND EXPLANATION AND ALL LEARNING TYPES WHERE ACHIEVED. 100%
This is gonna help me a lot. I've always had to adjust parts to compensate for the layer expansion. It's really time consuming and not ideal to make a correct sized part, see it print oversized and then adjust the part itself.
Pretty interesting, dude! Thanks for the tip! 😃
What an awesome man and awesome channel. Thanks
T'est trop fort!! thank you for your videos!
Great video! 👏👏
Great video topic ..... that created a lively discussion :)
thanks for the helping hand! and i maybe not be a patreon,
but i wil buy that toolkit of yours, just to make a contribution for all the awsome and helpfull things you teach everytime you post a video
greets from belgium!
Thanks a lot. For sharing the info.
Very informative. Thank you.
Thanks for good content!
Fantastic advice as always
Thanks for sharing :-)
Thanks for watching
well well well, after sixth print I got this vid perfect!! Thx
1) although I agree scaling the part up is not what you want to do, it should not reduce the size of the inner cavity 2) you almost definitely have issues with overextrusion, and your calibrated horizontal expansion settings will not remain stable across different prints 3) microstepping works fine in the z-axis motion system of all modern 3d printers, magic numbers should not be necessary. Do you disagree?
Disagree with all three. 1) I proved it did. It expands or reduces in all x,y directions. 2) I printed multiple parts with this method and it works. 3) Not all microstep angles are equal so Magic Numbers avg out the error.
@@FilamentFriday that's the key: "averages out." Unfortunately you can't guarantee starting at the same microstep or full step for any print. That would be nice though. The magic numbers help ensure you have better consistency across the whole Z travel even if it's on a microstep. Did I get that right?
@@FilamentFriday 1) Can you point me to the proof? Is it @3:10? I could be forgetting something, but if you scale up an A x B rectangle by 200%, it becomes an 2A x 2B rectangle. It dosn't matter if that rectangle represents the interior perimeter, or exterior perimeter of the part. That said, I definitely agree that just scaling up the part isn't really what one would want to do in this situation, so perhaps this point is kind of not that important. 2) Practically speaking, it probably works fine because we generally always print with low, 10-20% infill and similar wall thickness, 0.8-1.2mm settings across parts. The actual_printed_thickness should be basically (cad_modeled_thickness - horizontal_compensation) * overextrusion_ratio. As long as nominal thickness is typically within a narrow range, a constant value of horizontal_compensation will get you the intended dimensions. But if you for some reason need wall thicknesses on some other part that are 2x or 3x what you normally do, then the error due to overextrusion_ratio will double or triple, while horizontal_compensation won't change and will be unable to compensate enough. 3) That's a good point. Although very good drivers with well matched stepper motors probably can produce very consistent holding torque even at different microstepped angles, from a practical perspective our printers are not that well implemented and it probably makes sense to favor whole steps when possible. I see your video on the subject has some good macro images showing the effects. Thanks for the real-world testing there.
Microsteps in stepper motors are not linear - but almost linear, so the position that the stepper works best at is 1/200th on a 1.8 degree stepper, but you could plug in a 0.9degree (1/400) or 0.45 degree (1/800) to get better mechanical resolution.
Wtf is going on in this comment thread.
Thank you sooooo much Chuck. I use Simplify3D and I found the same setting in Process Settings, Other, Horizontal Size Compensation and set it to -0.15 as per your suggestion and my prints are bang on. My prints were also 0.3mm out. Thank you, thank you, thank you. :)
Thanks for testing in S3D. Many have asked.
@@FilamentFriday No worries, I'm happy to help
Love this channel, also how do you best design for your tolerances.? Build that 0.3mm into the design itself in Tinkercad, Fusion etc. or use Horizontal Expansion.? Or both, and in what varying measures.?
OMG - a new FF toolkit??? Watching again Chuck!
Oh man! this helped alot!!!
Great tip! Thanks!
Great info, good to know!
This was a great learn. Finally, the external and internal dimensions match. Previously, I always had to small holes. In the meantime CURA has a third setting that will only affect holes and NOT all polygons. That way you can really dial it in perfectly. But now I have another problem: Doing so many measurements I recognized the corners of a cube are extruded more then the sides (about 0.2mm overall). How would one solve that?
Hi. Really enjoy your video's, you have really helped me out with my understanding of the craft. I have ender 3 and just purchased a cr10 Pro v2 and I am loving it. Thought I would have a look at your tool kit here in the UK on Amazon, was a bit surprised to see its listed for £138.08, even allowing for exchange rate thats got to be wrong, might want to have a look at it.
That’s a phony listing. We are working on fixing it.
Love your show :) I got myself Ender 3 recently, installed an aluminium extruder 2 days ago. Not sure why but print quality dropped hard. Checked your video about PTFE tube, wasn't the problem (although I did order replacement parts for future safety). I think that there's too much pressure on the filament :( will try old spring, if it won't help I will install standard plastic extruder to print some filament supply upgrades. I sure hope that the quality will come back if I'm forced to go back to stock...
Very handy. Thanks 🙏👍
I know this is a 2 year old video, but do you set HE for every print you do or just certain ones? I assume this is after you calibrate esteps and flow? People tell me HE is a last resort and my dimension issues should be fixed by flow or pressure advance. Can you please clarify?
Hello Chuck.
My printer was never on the dot like your prints were after applying the expansion settings in your video. Wow! A lot of what I print is mechanical and needs precise fits. I often have to reprint after changing my CAD file. Not too practical.
Would the horizontal expansionsettings become the default settings for all prints? Or it changes per material, layer heigh, nozzle dia. etc.... Thanks
So thankful for all you do for the 3d printing community. I have learned a lot from you. You're a goos teacher. Thanks for all the hard work you do.
Martin
Have to adjust to the print.
I'm subbed, but as you know, YT no longer notifies by email. Do you have a video showing all of your settings? In order to follow along with this calibration exercise, I would like to get on the exact same page with you. Thank you.
Hello. Just a question the inside have been fixed but the outside have shrink. I did something wrong ???
Thank you very good!
Would this setting fix it definitely or would it need to be adjusted for each print?
Just: Thank you! First it was to hard to move it on ... with -0,15 its working :D
Your vids are my fav. I have four creality printers and only use cura. Wish I could figure out what I am doing wrong with cura 4.x.x . Can't get a good print at all so I always go back to 3.6 . Thanks for the wonderful vids!
Did you try my profiles?
4.x didn't work well with my ender 3 either so I better downgraded back to 3.6
@@FilamentFriday I have downloaded the files but I can't open them on my Mac. Any sugestions? Maybe I'm to old to figure it out!
great help thanks
Before anyone starts adjusting dimensions using this feature in Cura (S3D has it as well), you must first insure that you are not over or under extruding. That means, print a hollow test cube with a known single wall thickness. Measure that thickness and adjust your extrusion multiplier (flow in cura). Once you are printing a 0.45mm wall with a measured 0.43-0.44 actual thickness, then you can start adjusting this parameter, if needed.
My printer extrusion is already calibrated. But filament expansion, temperature, nozzle wear, etc. can affect a print accuracy. This takes all that into account and basically does a minor flow adjustment for that particular print.
Luke Hatfield on Facebook recommends using a 2 wall cube of 0.8mm for better accuracy. Probably since most prints will not be a single line thick unless in vase mode. It works better for me than the single wall anyway.
@@FilamentFriday Sorry. I reread my comment and it seems like I'm criticizing your video and implying that you haven't calibrated extrusion already. I apologize. That wasn't the intent of the comment. Since you hadn't mentioned calibrating extrusion in your video (I hope I didn't miss it?), I was just advising others to do so before making adjustments to this parameter. Cheers.
@@OldCurmudgeon3DP That's a reasonable suggestion. Theoretically, it shouldn't make any difference if you ask for a single, double or triple wall. We are only interested in confirming that the printer is outputting what we are expecting. Two or three walls is probably a bit easier to measure though.
great video ! I'm down to .02mm but on my total Hight now I'm still .27mm big what can i do?
Nice tip on the setting. I haven't checked thingiverse, but I wonder if anyone has drafted a thing to hold that Caliper. Would be nice to have it and maybe the debur tool in something so they don't just bounce around in the bag and scuff or get scuffed. Just a thought.
Bought a set of step bits & a reamer a while back and neither came w/ a case. Bit of time in F360 and they now have a nice (read: functional and somewhat protective) cylindrical object to store them in. I might revise it to add the debur tool, but then it'll be getting kind of tall.
Chep, thanks for this movie. I repeated the exersize and here are the resulst: on the holes test I am 0.2mm too small, on the 24x14 I am 0.2 too small inside and about the same on the outside. What’s the solution? Do I think right to add 0.1 horizontal expansion and -0.2 in hole expansion?
It's Monday but I'm gonna watch Filament Friday anyway
ha
Hi Chuck... Thanks for this and all of your other videos! I have been using your CE3 0.12 printer profile in Cura on my Anet ET4 and have been getting .01mm accuracy in X and Y without adjusting for horizontal expansion printing a XYZ 20mm block which is really great.... but my Z axis is .08mm short. Is there anywhere else that I can adjust for this beside scaling the Z axis?
Adjust the first layer height or print on a raft
Thanks.... I'll give that a try
i have been using this setting since the first month i started 3d printing, it's a must have, everyone was telling it was overextrusion, but if i turned extrusion down, it caused spaces between the lines in the top layers, so it's not, overextrusion, and it's not incorrect e-steps because i always had +0.1mm no matter the size of the piece (wrong e-steps are cumulative)
so it is really the plastic expanding a bit.
Yep. You understand.
Every time I see, tighten your belts or do your esteps, I laugh. They clearly dont understand the procees when you see these cures.
I've been fighting gaps between walls for a while now. Even running 5% above what the extrusion test cubes suggest.
Would this work for tight fitting puzzle pieces? Rather than take a knife to all the edges, would this do trick?
Worked !
Do i have to adjust my horizontal expansion value for every different print? or do i have to do this ONLY once as long as i'm using the same filament? it seems like a lot of time and plastic will be wasted if not, because i'll have to print multiple models to measure and adjust the horizontal expansion value. GREAT video btw!!
May have to adjust based on print.
@@FilamentFriday, thanks for your videos they are a great help! If we need to change it based on the print, then how would we measure, and then change the horizontal expansion for more organic shapes or circles for screw holes?
The price is actually really good. The calipers are about 8 Euro, cutting board about 6 Euro, Pliers depend on quality but should be around 10 Euro and the snipping pliers are about 4 Euro. So the rest of the set is basically for free. I already have all these tools in my shop for years but if I wouldn't have them, your package would be a really nice option. Could be interesting as a present for a friend. Do you ship it to Germany? How much would be the shipping cost then?
Brilliant
I manged to calibrate my prints to almost perfect (external) dimensions tampering "flow". If I design a piece with a hole and want to adjust the internal measurements with horizontal expansion... I am assuming it will also impact the external dimensions, right? in that case... is there a preference to use one over the other if you want both perfect external and hole dimensions?
Thank you and good video.
This should help explain it. th-cam.com/video/UUelLZvDelU/w-d-xo.html
@@FilamentFriday Ahh good one. I must play with those settings. Cheers mate.
this video helped me a lot but my values are not the same i dont have 0.3 in the y direction and 0.3 in the x direction more like 0.15 in the y and 0.3 in the x direction do you know how to solve this
Hello Chuck. Thank you for the great videos. Question. I'm printing an "L" shape. the legs are 30 mm and the height and width are 5.5. When I print it, one leg comes out 5.7(w) x 5.5.(h). The other leg is as designed (5.5 x 5.5). I've triple checked my design measurements. Is there a Cura setting that can fix this?
No. Just try and reposition it or print one at a time. Won’t take much longer.
@@FilamentFriday Thanks. I tried repositioning it but it didn't change. I used the horizontal expansion setting but it changed both. I can work around it but was hoping it was a known issue that was easily fixed. Thanks again for your great videos!
U look like John James from Rambo love the vids
what about parts shrinking at the z axis/height. I'm working on a guitar body I sliced up, and i decided to print one part sideways for structural integrity, but now its not the same size as the rest of the parts. and after some measuring all my parts shrank on the z axis just enough force me to start over once i find the solution. pls help
Chuck, have you had a chance to try out the current version of Cura? Now that the Creawsome mod settings have been rolled in, it acts differently than before. I tried using your profiles in it and they give different results.
I haven’t yet.
Just a quick question. If I do an adjustment with one stl file, will that specific setting work with different prints? Say, to print a 20x20x20 cube, I have to do a -.15 horizontal expansion. But if I do a 50x20x20 box, will it still work with the -.15 setting?
Not necessarily.
How does this method differ from calibrating your printer's flow? Also, if you shrink/expand your walls via the horizontal expansion method, doesn't this effect your overall wall thickness (which is dialed in by calculating the printer's flow)? Thanks @CHEP
It really has nothing to do with flow, it just automatically adjusts dimensions.
@@FilamentFriday thank you. My dimensions turned out to be correct (outside and inside) in one direction but, not the other. Not sure if it's x or yet. I need to print it again. Quite odd.
That’s also my question and I don’t get it. I was told to print a 2cm cube and measure its walls thickness, then calculated (expected thickness x actual thickness) x current flow = new flow rate. After new flow rate dialled in, my walls are correct and my printer calibrated. So apparently for the same problem, some say calibrate the flow, you say adjust the horizontal expansion. I’m confused. What am I missing? Is the difference that horizontal expansion will adjust the distance between lines as to impact the perimeter, where the flows just impact the lines thickness?
this was a pretty cool tutorial, i personally don't use cura slicer but if I do in the future ill come back here. Would you be able to make a vid explaining why I've seen rev bots with 120M range xp Jagex clearly doesn't give a F
Great! Do you know how to do it in Slic3r? Thx!
How do you know that this is horizontal expansion and not a flow or calibration issue with your steps, or shrinkage of the filament?
Before adjusting horizontal expansion, you should make sure you have all of your steps calibrated, so you know they're not the problem. Also, you need to know the shrinkage amount for the material you're printing with to account for any variance due to that. Once you've done those things, then you can adjust horizontal expansion and know the problem isn't a result of those other factors. So the order of operations matters.
Looks like this technique (differential) is like much a better approach that changing X and Y steps (proportional). Have you tried printing bigger parts to see if accuracy is preserved?
I’ve printed multiple parts of different shapes and sizes but each may require a horizontal adjustment as so many this affect the accuracy. This is just a final adjustment.
Very nice. However, on my prints fo a similar test object, the outside dimensions are dead on but the inside dimensions are 3% too small. How do I correct for that?
In cura 5.1, look for "hole horizontal expansion" that should only adjust the inside parameter
@@NessAmiibo Thank you so much!
Great video! I just got the took kit delivered today by amazon and randomly found your videos :). Thanks for the instructional videos! Keep up the good work!
Great video. Btw, Hellebuyck is a typical family name from Belgium. You got ancestors in Belgium ?
Thanks.
hey Chuck! i know you mention that you are using 4.1 in this video, but i just wanted to leave a heads up for anyone with the latest version of cura (the 4.2.1 hotfix) there is still a bug which prevents negative values in horizontal expansion. the bug is not present in all other versions i have tried, but if you plug a negative value in in 4.2.1 it reverts to a positive value instead. just a heads up for anyone who comes across this.
Thanks. Wasn’t aware of that.
thanks - my cube is good but i have a thicker line approx in the middle of my cube all the way around - any ideas why - thanks
Possible your z axis is slipping.
How do you fix prints that are elongated on just one side , but other half prints to size?
Is horizontal expansion something that should always be set and forget? Shouldn't the hole horizontal expansion also be set at the same time?
Depends on the print.
my cover have a measure of 13.9x23.9 external and 10.90x20.30 internal, what can i do?