FUNNY Exchange between Pilot and Controller at JFK!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2023
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I love pilots who send to me all their funny situations.
Remember to share for vasaviation1@gmail.com
does it help if we @ you on twitter ?
@@calahan59 I guess you maybe don't want to share certain things in public? I can miss the @ in twitter too.
@@VASAviation I mean if there is press article on something related to "atc world" and we @ you.
I always reply
Sure thing
Good to know that Kennedy takeoff clearance is covered by LTT's "Trust Me Bro" guarantee
Most people don't read Part 69 in detail -- Trust Me Bro is actually standard phraseology, believe it or not.
OOF!
Just so people know, this isnt normal protocol, but this is a normal day at JFK...
This is actually EXACTLY how this should happen lol
I'm sure Kennedy Steve would have put a funny spin on it.
I hope it's not normal. Letting a jet take off with a radio issue is curious at best.
@@thereissomecoolstuff it was a Saratoga first of all. Secondly…what’s the other option? Leave him there blocking access to the runway for every other airliner waiting to take off? The controller used other pilots to relay his instructions to an aircraft’s who’s transmissions were not being received by the tower. This happens all the time. If you lose line of sight with the receiver and transmitter this is exactly what you do. There was probably too much metal between N40V’s transmitter and where the Tower’s receiver was. The controller did exactly what he’s supposed to do.
@@JR-gc9wySurely, you jest!
Love how pilots always help out. Need to contact someone on a different frequency? No problem. Need to fly over a crash site? Absolutely, we'll circle and report. Gotta reach an airplane out of range? You know a plane still in range will be happy to pass the message on. There's so much cooperation to keep everyone safe and everyone is helping. Love to see (hear) it!
I'm not a pilot. But I read about USP airlines flight 6. Though ultimately the flight crashed and the crew perished, other pilots made a concerted effort to assist by relaying information between the doomed flight and ATC.
Pilots are pretty dope
Gotta look out for each other up there.
Fully agree! If only people were so cooperative and willing to help everywhere (in non-aviation jobs and life) as well, it'd be amazing. 👍
@@WillRennar Flight travel is only possible to this extent because a system employing thousands of active participants work together to make it so. When a storm can physically rip your airplane apart.....
The great thing about aviation is a desire to help with keeping things safe and working as a team to accomplish that.
It would be great if that always happened, but sometimes egos get in the way unfortunately... ( as we've also seen on this channel )
the way he said ' hey 70V do you hear me its brickyard 5613 ' lmao im rolling on the floor laughing
Its the "up here at 13R" that got me. As in "I'm right behind you, you need to GOOO"
@@nitehawk86I was waiting for tower to tell Brickyard “Caution wake turbulence, Piper Saratoga”
@@10RRASK "Caution: Prop Wash" would fit the bill 🤣
"Earth to 70V" 😂
@@davecrupel2817I understood that reference 😂😂😂😂
2:07 "Stand by, I have a plan."
That's always a good thing to hear.
Reassuring when Dutch van der Linde is working in ATC
"Hold my beer."
"N70V this is Brickyard...Tower says they have a phone number for you" **gives the phone number to a local movie theater**
Phone sex operator surely. The confusion at both ends of the call would be hilarious.
1877 KARS FOR KIDS... donate your plane today!
If Kennedy Steve was still working, he'd have Delta Tug 2 relay for him. "You might as well do something useful while you're waiting."
That’s hilarious… and certainly possible! 🤣
Hahaha!
I see some people who are worried or confused, but this is actually a standard procedure controllers are trained for. If you can't establish direct communication there are a few methods of secondary communication, one of which is relaying through another aircraft.
Small aircraft will have their radio antenna on all kinds of random spots, so it's possible (IMO likely) the aircraft had it turned away from the tower. I've heard from controllers where they can't hear an inbound plane, ask it to make a turn, and then can hear it perfectly because the antenna isn't covered any more. The radio is clearly working because he's able to communicate with Brickyard, and the tower made sure of that before relaying the lineup instruction and clearance.
It's working but not good enough to be acceptable.
Unacceptable risk taken. The controller did not have absolute knowledge of a fully functional radio.
@@barryo5158he literally just told you that its a common occurrence, controller knew he had radio since he could communicate with another plane. Anyone landing at JFK has probably flown well enough to get to that point
@@OpticSpycrab_OG So what! Who is "he"?
@@barryo5158 if you would use your eyes a bit you would see the original comment explaining in detail, “he” is an ambiguous term for the commenter
I'm an ex-airport cop from a way smaller airport than JFK in Canada, now I'm somewhere else. But I have to say that I've always been in awe with the comms between ATC, pilots and ground personnel. So I'm saying it here, I know there's a lot of pilots and ATC that listens to the channel, but you guys are amazing at what you do and I truly admire you guys. In another life I wished to become ATC after my days as being a cop, but I buried this dream long ago 😂.
Of course I never wished something bad to happen, but my favorite moments were always the emergencies (Of course since I'm in this line of work...), but you guys can switch from being sometimes silly to real disciplined and concise when shit gets serious, and I truly always admired that.
And for VASAviation, Thank you for sharing those comms highlights. It makes me nostalgic from my old workplace and I love it. Keep the great work coming 😄
As a pilot I always appreciate decent emergency services. It's so extremely reassuring from GA to Airline ops. When I was a student nearly two decades ago I had a scare in an Arrow (gear indication) so opted to land at the nearby larger airport with ARFF. Landed without an issue but being 19 I felt extremely sheepish about wasting their time but they were incredibly awesome about it. Plane got parked on the ramp and an AFP cop gave me a lift back to my local strip!
They reacted no different to if it was any RPT emergency just for a kid in an Arrow and kept saying I made the right choice, not to stress about it and the most important thing was all ended well. I've always appreciated that introduction into the professionalism and culture of taking care of each other that the industry demands.
Compare that to working GA in parts of Africa where the police are usually drunk in the terminal and the donated ex European firetrucks haven't moved in years and the radios and fuel long stolen.
@@goodshipkaraboudjan Even if we never met, thank you sir! Next time you have a situation remember to thank those answering the call. Most of the time it makes our day better 😄.
Stay safe out there!
what airport in Canada?
@@shadinz I've always made point to say thank you to police, ARFF and paramedics and I will be sure to continue to! Be safe yourself as well and thanks again for all you guys do for us.
@@limitedkanji I've worked both Quebec YQB and then Montreal YUL, before working for the State/Province.
The communications radio antena is almost always on the bottom of the plane. Sometimes with the towers transmitter on top of the tower, the engines and tail of the plane itself can block comms. Once you are airborne, all is well. I used to fly a Cessna 414 with Comm 1 anrena on the belly, bit Comm 2 was atop the tail...nearly always used Comm 2 for clearance delivery and ground, once in a while had to seitch to Comm 2 for takeoff clearance.
Exactly this. The antenna position is the most likely culprit
Excellent point. Happened to me departing from an airport which had a sort of hill between us and the tower, when holding short. Couldn’t hear the tower, we switched radios and it went better !
It's a good explanation, but I would rather Tower refused to give further instructions and get a ground unit to escort the Saratoga out of the way.
I'm sure tower knew what the problem was from previous incidents and it should clear given movement or when airborne; BUT it doesn't seem right - and what if they still couldn't hear tower or any departure climbing out?
I'm surprised there's any GA using JFK. I guess they can fill the slots and it's money; but you almost never see exec jets out of Heathrow, let alone GA flights, and I'm sure new York is more crowded.
He could hear others on frequency. In the worst case, tower can relay.
@@liam3284" Expedite right turn. Pass that along would you guys. Thanks a bunch."
"I have a plan. Imma use you as an antenna booster."
"Excellent plan."
Kudos to ATC & Brickyard for getting 70V off the ground 👏🏼
And to the pilot submitting it to Victor so that we could all enjoy it too! 😊
All hail Kennedy Steve. He left big shoes to fill.
I was thinking the same thing. The solid "Seeya!" at the end was worthy acknowledgement...
FACTS
Clearly something of a blind spot down at the approach end of 13R. Probably need another antenna array for smaller aircraft who's antennas don't have the height to get their transmissions over buildings and other obstructions.
Thank you. I was wondering what could cause this. Seems like a weird "glitch".
@@methridgeline of sight can be a b***h
I wonder if it might be a very localized dead spot due to destructive interference between two antennas on same frequency, or due to destructive interference between two different signal paths, e.g. a path reflecting off a building?
Could it be the bigger plane was causing interference with the smaller plane?
In addition, its a Piper Saratoga, which might not have enough transmission power to be heard clearly when it's on the ground. The LiveATC recording station for this video is also on the ground (obviously :P), and its common that LiveATC simply can't hear single engine prop planes when they are on the ground.
Doesn't matter what industry you're in... eventually you're going to end up helping someone else at work with something that is not a part of your job description.
The "SEE YA" will never not make me laugh.
"Earth to 70V"
😂
When I was in the (German) air force, one of my duties was manning the switchboard at Rhein Radar. We did indeed have a procedure for the case that the two parties of a (manually switched) call couldn't hear each other: We were supposed to stay in the line until we could tell they could hear each other and only then disconnect. If they couldn't hear each other, we were supposed to interrupt and relay.
In the 12 months I was in that unit I had one occasion when the two clients couldn't hear each other, so I announced that apparently they couldn't hear each other, I would be relaying their information manually. I repeated what each other was saying and we managed to get the information transmitted to the correct places. I don't remember the content nor the partners, it was 30 years ago. I think it might have been some estimate when a flight would be arriving in their airspace. This type of connection was rather rare, since most places had direct lines to the ATC units they were usually talking to, only connections that didn't have a direct line went through our switchboard. The switchboard itself looked like it was the flower of 1970s (maybe 1960s technology... ;-))
Not the 'patch and plug' layout then. 😄
@@lamwen03 nope, all buttons.
I imagine Brickyard pilot would get hired as ATC if he submitted his resume after this audition given the manpower shortage at FAA. Then, getting assigned to do JFK would be like going from the frying pan into the fire.
Yeah, except for the pilot shortage also happening. Maybe they can switch jobs! 🤣
Probably, but with a big cut in pay !!
lol except no pilots will sign up for ATC lol pilot job is far superior over ATC.
@@Denverian😂😂😂
Sounds like there’s a radio dead spot at the end of the runway. You can hear the other planes kind of dropping out there also.
This was great! Cool crew, cool ATC. Well done.
awkward we share the same pic
What’s FUNNY is pulling up this video only to revisit that day when I sat on the ramp in N4170V at Modern Aviation for an hour trying to pick up my clearance…tried every freq I could find to reach someone…the blast walls surrounding the FBO made it impossible…the FBO folks had no ideas on who I could call to get some sort of resolution. Finally the ramp marshalls thought that if I pulled over to the adjacent cargo ramp next to two 747’s I might have some better luck. That worked…received my clearance and taxi instructions all together. I taxied toward 13R via Quebec and was told to hold short at PF. The typical JFK traffic was lined up 10-20 planes deep on taxiway Papa so I was not holding up any departing traffic. While holding short at PF, ran into same NORDO issues…tried multiple freq’s…nothing…until Brickyard 5613 started relaying messages to me…they held short a bit on Papa and opened up some space for me to get to the runway…the sun was actually shining into 5613’s cockpit so could see the FO looking at me when he told me to line up and wait on 13R…was a clear VFR day and never felt that this unusual clearance for TO was in any way putting anyone in harms way. Appreciated the teamwork for sure…have flown into many bravo’s in the past with my Saratoga and have never had this type of ground communication issue…more frustrating than anything. I certainly appreciated however the great attitudes from ATC and the pilots that relayed messages to me to get me on my way…needless to say I may not be heading back to JFK anytime soon!
If real this needs to be pinned
Whoa. My 1st thought was: "So they gonna let him out with radio not working well?" Then it turned all fine : )
Could be the tower transmission to a very low-lying antenna was blocked. RPA had extra height.
You don't use hindsight to judge a decision.
My guess is it's a known problem that spot is a bit of a dead spot for some GA craft. Remember that tower could hear the piper, so it wasn't a transmission issue, and the Piper could clearly hear other planes, so it was a good bet all would resolve once the Piper got a bit of height.
The radio was working fine. VHF signals are mostly line-of-sight, though. There was probably a large jet and/or part of the Saratoga itself between the VHF antenna they were using and the Tower's VHF antenna. The antennas are often (typically) on the bottom of the plane, which is the best spot for them when you're in the air, but can cause them to be more likely to be blocked by big chunks of metal (including parts of your own aircraft) from certain directions when you're on the ground. As soon as you get off the ground - or often in a different position or orientation on the ground - problem solved. It was clear enough that both tx and rx were working fine since Tower could hear the Saratoga and the Saratoga could hear Brickyard. If Tower had not been able to hear that the Saratoga could hear and was responding to Brickyard, then they obviously would not have issued the takeoff clearance. This is also most likely why the Tower first tried giving the line-up-and-wait instruction, hoping that the position and orientation change of the Saratoga taxiing into position on the runway would clear the signal path from obstructions, but it didn't. It was clear enough that all systems were working fine, though, so issuing the takeoff clearance made sense.
Random pilot who acts as a relay for the tower for a take off clearance ? Haha, Didnt know that was possible !
Atc Relays are a thing. As long as everyone pays attention there not much issue. Radio problems happen
@@FlightX101 at least in EASA law the controller may not relay a clearance to a pilot via another non-controller station
@@EVE101Patt Europe being it's usual boring self haha
At least the relay wasn't through the guy with the handheld in the bathtub up in Canada from one of Victor's other videos.....
I constantly have this issue at JFK. I keep the COMM squelch off when I'm there. Annoying, but it works. It seems especially bad when you're at the G/A ramp.
The SEEYUH is the real icing on the cake here
During a the shutdown of airspace to the current storms happening here on the east coast, I was listening to KEWR ground all day Monday and heard a lot of continuous ATC banter from the frustrated controllers to the pilot on the frequency who were upset because they had to return to the gate after a 5 hour wait (or more) on the taxiways
I have had this happen to me before, and I suspect I'm not alone. In my case, the tower was transmitting on tower AND ground freqs at the same time, a common thing. I accidentally had left my com2 radio monitoring ground mixed with my com1 tower audio. The mic in the tower is simply connected in an opposite polarity in that particular tower, resulting in a 180º out of phase version which cancels out to silence when you mix them. Some airports have them both in phase and they just get extra loud when you monitor both freqs, and others are out of phase.
Relay clearances are such a useful tool! Used that many times.
I have never heard this in aviation, but in amateur radio we do this all of the time. But then, we aren't trying to keep airplanes from crashing into one another.
Nice to hear a positive interaction, seems rare these days
30 or so years ago, was in Papua New Guinea, the particular aircraft that we were flying had a radio that was flakey on the ground, but worked fine when up to altitude. So, being very remote, it wasn't unusual for us, to take off, get up to 4000 ft and then radio ATC (which was about 300 kms away) to request takeoff clearance. PNG, where one of the biggest flying hazards was the cloud formations we nicknamed CumuloGranite - clouds that liked to hang around mountain tops.
Twotter with HL? I did a brief stint in PNG and yes, interesting time.
That cloud sounds scary
I love the teamwork, it makes the passengers flights just a bit smoother when there isnt any confusion in air or on the ground.
that was adorable!
Excellent Job ALL. 👍🙏
This was DIFFERENT, but they worked it out nicely!
Good work @all!
That spot over by 13 right right by the FBO is a dead spot for ground they can't hear you at all typically if you're in a ga aircraft
LOL! That's awesome. There are "dead areas" at some airports for whatever reason and communication is difficult. Normally towers are tall enough to take care of this problem, but now and then....
Awesome teamwork and courtesy. Well done to all involved.
Best story arc ever, 10/10💀
Nice to see the light hearted side of things. I bet the Brickyard pilot says “hey…” a lot in his normal conversations.
I’ve worked this Saratoga many times out of LNS . Great pilot
Thx Vas, that made me smile and chuckle😂
LOL. Unusual situation but isn't it cool? Tower being resourceful. Well-done.
Nice to see the tower guys and pilots helping one another to make make things work with a sense of humor and professionalism. ATC guys are in a pressure packed work environment and any assistance to make their life a bit easier is great to see and hear.
Haven't done this on TWR yet, but I did have to rely on a higher plane somewhere over open water between Slovenia and Italy once, same procedure. I believe they also do the same thing for small planes crossing the North Atlantic.
It's not that uncommon.
Tower: ok, i have a plan
My first thought: is he gonna call them from a payphone like in Pushing Tin?
Great teamwork!
absolutely, what i wanted to hear! Great stuff
I used to fly survey aircraft and we would get down in areas and lose contact with ATC. So other aircraft would relay for us/them. Today if I hear an airplane/ATC not hearing i always offer to relay. Good stuff at JFK
i miss kennedy steve, a special could be nice as a "memory"
Did he retire?
@@laarbpad2107 He reached mandatory retirement age a few years ago. Then went to work for one of his favorite places... a ramp, as a manager, at the airport.
@@brch2 thanks for the info! Glad to hear he is able to continue on doing something he enjoys.
The only instance where a game of broken telephone doesn't end in a disaster.
This small game of telephone, love to see this stuff
Great airmanship! ;-)
Lol, awesome. Thanks for sharing to all!
Good job you guys, keepin’ the metal in the air 👍
Pilots and FOs out there having two jobs running the tower part time. Times are tough huh 🤣
Love you, VAS 😘
I’d love to hear what Kelsey from 74Gear has to say about this 😂
I wouldn‘t understand anything, if there were no translation. For me it‘s a miracle that they understand each other.
Great job by all!!!
Well done 'Brickyard' 📻 💪 🎙
Funny how the recording is the opposite problem. We can hear the tower but we can't hear the plane.
I was going to ask if the Brickyard pilot was going to get paid for being a controller.
That was very cool!
maybe there is some type of interference right at that spot, because as soon as brickyard 5613 entered the runway to line up and wait, seems like his audio was scratchy too.
Well done Brickyard!
If it's Kennedy Steve: "Earth to 70V"
😂
Teamwork makes the dream work!
Okay so I was getting kind of bored but I love how it ended 😂
This seems a little concerning since if tower needed to abort takeoff doing that through relay adds a potentially critically long delay.
That is dangerous stuff.
Well that's a funky one. Nice.
The JFK controller looks like he'll be happy to have that pilot work with them as a new ATC, nice.
"Your phraseology was pretty good" (at the end) ROTFLMAO. The Brickyard pilot was simply repeating what ATC was saying (and he's heard it all hundreds of times himself).
A Republic F/O?? A rare breed currently. That company is in dire need of pilots.
There should be extra cash for extra duties for Brickyard crew :)
Imagine explaining to the FAA that your clearance was issued by a game of telephone through another pilot lol
Someone actually got in trouble trolling ATC frequency in Europe.
Props on the sick SEEYA
This is both hilarious and kinda scary. Did we ever figure out what’s wrong with N70V’s radio?
I feel like this should at least entitle him to NATCA benefits now!
I'm.. conflicted. Relayed takeoff clearances aside, is it not a bit risky to send a plane that you're knowingly unable to communicate with in that kind of bust airspace? Nice to see everyone be able to work together to get the plane off the ground and keep things smooth regardless.
meh its just a small plane, can take off or reject in a very short space :) maintain visual separation ahah
Blind spots are a thing at some airports, especially for smaller planes who's antenna aren't high enough to reach over buildings, he clearly wasn't having comm issues or he wouldn't have been able to hear and talk to Brickyard and worst case scinero he told Brickyard the heading he was planning on flying out of so ATC would easily move aircraft away from his flight path until he's clear of controlled airspace.
Also, ATC was able to hear (part of) his readbacks
If you're flying out of JFK, you're likely on an IFR plan. ATC knows where you're going, so if they can see your transponder, it's all good. Also, once the aircraft gets in the sky, they'll likely be able to reach the aircraft.
It's not because the radio of N70V worked fine, otherwise Brickyard wouldn't have heard him.
bro wanted everyone to hear his resume joke
A new honorary tower controller.
This was so wholesome 🥰
When is the Aircraft Communications System going to step into the modern era? There is no excuse to tolerate these gaps in communication.
That was COOL!!!
Stressful jobs need their light hearted moments
And here we see a splendid example of how interesting radio signals are. It can literally be total blind spots in some places. Like, Zero! And for the radio communications, almost Zero is bad enough with all the background noise that you squelch off.
There can be interference between main signal and reflective signals.
There can be shadows behind objects.
There can be shadows on other places because how the signal bounces onto some stuff and absorbs into other stuff and interfere with other stuff and signals.
Often on airports that are large you need multiple antennas and they too create problems with interference and bouncing and shit.
Then we add some other disturbances like ducting that changes depending on the weather (air type, moisture, temperature, wind and more).
And space disturbances that can increase the noise and create interference and ducting and shit.
And so on...
Fun fact:
In our summer cottage before they change from analog TV signal to digital, we had the antenna pointed 180 degree away from the radio tower. Because, if we pointed it towards the tower, we got Nothing!
After digital TV, one year we had some trouble because of space interference. That made the TV signal drop to ZERO almost every morning for like a week! Then after a few hours, it started to slowly creep up again and since digital TV, there were tons of boxes, glitches, strange noise effects and freezing images until around mid day where the signal was good again. Just to drop to ZERO next day again.
Found a nice home page (that i do not not remember right now) that shows real time disturbances, and when TV was out there was a nice lobe just above us.
When radio troubles strike. They seem to have a blocked area.
love it.
lol, Thanks for sharing
Wow, is this within protocol? A transmitted take office clearance? 😮
Its not stupid if it work.... probably not, but way faster than got all planes stuck behind some technical issue, im sure no Pilot would dare to make a prank about a clearance in a airport, so i wont believe this can be done frecuently, still im sure if needed to rely instruction because issues, they will be done again
Protocol? Probably not, but given the circumstances, not inappropriate. If the small plane didn’t feel comfortable (he almost certainly heard Brickyard’s end of the conversation, so could be fairly confident that the relay was genuine), he could have refused but everything was safe and worked out to everyone’s satisfaction.
I would think someone should get a strong telling off fir this. It’s outrageous that any pilot takes take off instructions from any random third party.
@@davidwebb4904 well to be fair, because these radios do not employ any encryption security, the tower is also a random third party. There is no way for a pilot to know for certain the transmission claiming to be from the tower actually is from the tower. A pilot can only use their judgement, which is what the pilots did here.
@@davidwebb4904 And how exactly does ANY plane know they are listening to the actual tower exactly? This is analog comms in the clear. There is no encryption, no digital signing, nothing.
It's a matter of trust, and in this situation the pilot decided to trust the voices he was hearing were genuine.
When I was young I thought about being a pilot or ATC, but I know now that there is no way I could do this sort of RATEL, I have deficient short term memory I could not read back these instructions
Keep it rolling
Aw man. Had to be an ATC "messenger boy" huh? Maybe they should be a controller instead lol 😊
with this traffic mess it is a miracle there are not more collisions at JFK.
Lmao. One of our single engine owned airplanes had unshielded com cables that caused kinds of intermittent problems. We had to remove and replace all the wires.