Block Sanding Primer Surfacer: Addressing High & Low Areas
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Every body man/woman runs into problems. One problem is finding high and/or low areas while block sanding primer surfacer or primed body work. This video explains what to do when that happens and demonstrates the procedure to eliminate them. A special thanks goes out to Rooster Boots!
Putty:
www.amazon.com...
Long Board: www.amazon.com...
Boots:
rockroosterfoo...
/ @lakesideautobody
That's a fair bit of work even for slight distortion. I've got a whole car to do, its gonna take a long time
We use to block whole cars, wet sand whole cars, buff with big old heavy buffers, etc. Just keep thinking how good it is for your arms :)
@@LakesideAutobody 💪 Thanks!
👍@@tongoio
i.m not a body professionnal, for my final inspection before final sanding , I wet the surface with a wet sponge so i can see the repair in the glossy state of the surface and I can correct if necessary
That's what the Guide Coat is for.
Good work Jerry. As Rich Evans says; " the block never lies"! I went to the autobody supply you said you got your lacquer primer. When I click on the the Lacquer primer on their site it says no longer available. Mam I looking at the wrong place?
I get that primer at a local Auto Value auto parts store. I'll use any lacquer primer actually. I doesn't have to be Auto Body Master. I tried finding it online too - no luck. I like urethane primer too but it's a bit more $$. Always good to hear from you - have a good weekend :)
👍👍🙏
I just wanted to drop in and say thank you for making some awesome videos! As a new guy to automotive work (restoring a 66 mustang) your videos have been so educational for me. Keep up the good work sir!
Also, Michigan or Michigan State?
I'm really glad to hear that - ask any ? you what - doesn't matter what video you comment on - I answer all at least once a day. CMU! But if it's between M and MSU I'll go with M
Yeah Jerry should be a teacher . I wish they had videos. When I learn.
Great instruction sir. You, paint society, pharraway, and spray way have some of the best video tutorials! I do appreciate it.
Thanks - glad to hear that - have a good weekend :)
Movin Sandpaper !
Hi. Many thanks for sharing..still usefull vids ...I have watched many of yours and (I am sort of beginner) I keep thinking you are using too rough a grit for filler and now you seem to be using 120 on fine filler / stopping paste / glaze ...My understanding was that the stopper filler is to remove fine scratches but would you not be putting more back into the surface?...I go over this with around 320 / 400 ...is that too fine or is it just that it will take me longer?...Thanks
The body shops I worked at had 36, 80 120, 220 and 400 that's it. 36 and 80 was for filler - start with 36 finish with 80. 80 and 120 was for blocking primer or DA sanding. 220 was for prepping panels for paint or finish sanding primer w/ DA. 400 was for wet sanding primer and panels for paint. As long as you final scratches are 220-400 (240-400 today) you're fine. If you have more questions feel free to ask :)
I have only painted 2 cars and I am currently painting my 2009 Chrysler 300 no paint or bodywork experience, But I like to learn knew things , I have learned a lot From you and watching all of your Vidios Thanks I’ll show Pictures of my car Before I Did the Body work and paint Before and after keep it those Vidios Coming Don Mitchell From Abilene Texas
That's great to hear Don - looking forward to seeing the pictures 👍😊
Hmm...this video needs a good title. Awesome job demonstrating how to really make those repairs disappear - block sanding! I would add and stress the importance of always working with sharp paper. When the paper starts to dull I start to bear down a bit more and bad things happen. An old memory I have from when I was still working out of my Dad's garage - he would be picking up my used sandpaper to reuse for his woodworking projects, telling me I was wasting paper lol! Something that still frustrates me is blocking out a filled spot in a large flexible panel like a hood. Sharp paper and LIGHT pressure!! If you have any tips to share for that I would love to hear them. Great job and I hope anyone getting into Auto Body studies this video closely. BTW, you are attracting some big attention with your great videos - an Eastwood ad popped up today! Thank you Jerry!
You are so right about the sharp paper - absolutely great tip! Sharp paper is the key because it cuts through and doesn't ride over. Thanks for the comment and tips - Have a great week and you're welcome. Jerry
Good stuff Bud!! Well done!!☺
Thanks, You have a really good channel BTW. Interesting videos. Have a great weekend :)
Ok I got very straight . but I have some issues I hope you can help me with . bear with me . I used epoxy primer since it was a new panel . where it was welded body filler was used and I went about an inch and a half beyond to blend it in . anyway I sprayed 2 coats of epoxy but I have some runs . best way to get those out?? Grit of sandpaper? I have 2 other mistakes. I have to sharpen a body line . and fix a nub on the wheel lip . didn't see that but the black primer makes it stand out
After addressing these issues do I block sand the epoxy or spray it with primer surfaces? I'm using ppg shopping products
.
You really can't sand epoxy primer. You want to spray a quick coat of epoxy primer then a few thick coats of Urethane Primer Surfacer or just DTM Primer surfacer - that's direct to metal - no need for epoxy primer. Anyway after your primer dries block sand with 120-180 and your good. If it's not flat you'll have to prime and block again or use some putty then prime and block. Sorry about the late reply - Jerry
@@LakesideAutobody got it almost perfect . the body line wasn't sharp enough . I watched some more videos and got good enough for me to smile . the tape worked wonders . found 2 more very small spots I am working on now . I know I'm a complete novice but I want it perfect . I really appreciate your help.
@@direct998 You're welcome for the help. Keep at it my friend - try to get it perfect - you can't fail if you try enough times :)
Hey quick update . it's in primer surfacer . I do see 2 areas about 1/2 long each where it looks like I need to go over again . would a glaze type putty be good here? I tried the evercoat 1k spot putty but it doesn't really harden unless it's on there overnight. The paint store recommended a 2 part spot putty . suggestions??
@@direct998 You can use regular filler right over primer, 2K putty which sands easier, or if it's super minor you can use BONDO spot and glazing putty - that's the red stuff you see me using - dries super fast, get it at Walmart, sands super super easy, doesn't shrink if you use it sparingly. 2K glazing putt is probably your best bet - it will harden in about 15 minutes if mixed according to the instructions. If it doesn't harden, scrape it off and add more hardener on the next try :)
Good info, i bought a hog and paper, longboard and paper, and cheeser.
It's good to know that these tools are all that are used in most "good" body shops. You won't guys using some of the crazy things seen in videos on YT in high volume body shops. They will be using air tools (not electric), long boards with 2 3/4" paper, air powered DA's, cheese graters, and grinders with fiber resin disks (air) - again no electric tools. Maybe the buffer might be electric but that's about it :)
paint society does decent work but you explain things a hell of a lot better
I appreciate that - makes my day :)
My big problem is when sanden taken to much off not enough where it appears to be hi or low they show doing the x in sanden but he was going the length way of board to me that would sand a deeper spot granted it only mills but that adds up when u do it alot
Check this video out - it may help - th-cam.com/video/caWJYozggww/w-d-xo.html
That's good stuff...now I got do the same to my 72 dart deck lid!
Yes - don't want that looking all wavy :) Darts were great cars BTW - wish I had one with a 318 and a manual transmission :)
Great video man. I close my eyes and you sound like Bruce Dern.
Thanks - never heard of the guy but I looked him up - I'll have to check out a few of his movies.
Excellent its all about procedure Adding to my play list. Thanks for sharing
You're welcome :)
The most useful video for straight panels, thanks for this video you've shown us the best way to do the right job! No highs or low spots.. ever!
You're welcome. Glad it helped. Have a good weekend :)
awesome video - very well explained. I've been chasing info for flattening waves for about 5 years and only now finding the answer.
Glad it was helpful - thanks for the support.
I’ve never seen 907 used for anything more than pinholes; is it strong enough for such a big area? Also, have you ever used Durablocks to know how they compare?
The depth of that low spot was about 2-3 sheets of paper thick. You're absolutely fine using it in this fashion. I would say however, don't go over about 1/16" even though guys in the shop or even myself have gotten away with using it even thicker. It won't shrink like Keith stated if used correctly. If you need a thicker filler use 2k or regular filler. It was pretty common to see guys using a tight coat of filler over sanded primer.
As long as it is encapsulated by a 2k primer, it is ok and I mean only ok. I don't like to use it for anything other than pinholes and I would recommend a 2k glazing putty like Evercoat or something similar. But that's just me.
I like durablocks too. I have the stick on and hook and loop. That's almost all I use except for specific situations where I need an 18" long board that is stiffer than a durablock. In that case I use a 3m polymer longboard. Again, just me but it always ends up straight!
I'm working out waves on my doors I thought I was was ok until I painted and I couldn't live with the way they looked I bought A long sander and guide coat today your video is going to help me a lot thanks for sharing!!
You are very welcome - glad you found the video. You'll get it straight now :)
Hey. How did the long block work out for you?
Always good stuff on your channel. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
You're welcome - have a good weekend :)
Excellent tutorial, love your video's, thanks for posting 👍🏻
Glad you like them - have a good weekend :)
Those are wood blocks. Body blocks dont have padding so you can make a fat surface. Also use an X pattern starting from one side in one direction then from the other side the opposite direction. You're all over the place not making anything really flat. Also blocking prior to filling will show all your hi and low spots for filling. Just a simple blocking with 80 instead of eyeballing it by doing unnecessary grinding down to metal. Unless stud pulling no reason to go to metal.
That x pattern is what the books and magazines suggest but it is not always correct. That's why so many guy's I've worked with have trouble getting filler and primer surfacer straight. If you are suggesting folks use Dura block? - absolutely not good info. You want a block that stays straight and doesn't flex like those foam blocks. Check out my playlist on blocking if you are really serious about getting panels straight th-cam.com/play/PLOP9eoG14-I8NVEeuNbZQhXsrKRrdo7Oj.html - like this car that I painted in 1994 - th-cam.com/video/2o37dX--w0I/w-d-xo.html - still looked fine when I sold it 25 years later with the techniques found on this channel.
@@LakesideAutobody I dont go by books or mags just experience at a restoration shop. I use aluminum blocks ... follow the X pattern from one side then the next and you should be straight with little backfill if your first was enough. A lot of people try to skim coat something that needs a bit more and do double the work. As far as primer goes try some polyester ( some call it liquid bondo and I hate that term ) but its thick and gives room to block. Then 2k for wet sand. Just my 2 cents.
@@jamesroe7628 Yep - in the 80's when my body work was sub par Feather Fill was the go to. Bury it - go to lunch - hopefully the boss doesn't look at it before we get back - block sand it and voila! everything worked out. Nice talking to you James :)
Just some conservative criticism... more than one way to skin a cat.
Brilliant video , thankyou .
You're welcome Dean - enjoy the rest of the week :)
Wish the would show doing hard sanden area
Here's one that shows how to block sand area that are hard to get straight. Let me know if it helps or you need something else :)
Great job
After you finish a panel and move on to the next what can be done to get moisture out of panel. I have a 69 Nova that I want to paint silver metallic. My fear is bodywork could take me years to finish entire car. My fear is moisture getting into my work and showing it ugly face in my clear 6 months after I paint it. Any suggestions on what to do on a long term project like mine to avoid this problem
Yes - what I do is after i prime it I give it a light shot of some cheap enamel paint laying around - that seals it till I want to block sand it or continue working on it. You can also just use some epoxy primer to seal it. As long as what you shoot it with is water proof, your good. Hope that helps :)
Thank you. I do smart repair and I am still touching up my dent repair skills. How long did you leave the putty to dry for, I sometimes sand it too early and it takes chunks off.
If you are talking about the red putty, it can dry very quickly if used thin but usually I put it on at the end of a work session and then let it dry over lunch hour or overnight. Primer - same thing.
Hello Jerry. 6:01 I want to use bodyfiller with hardener, instead of 1k putty to fill the low area. But do i need to sand with 80 grit the low area on the primer , and more important - should i go down to bare metal.
You don't have to sand the low area on the primer but I do. I really never put any type of filler over an un-sanded surface - I just rough it up real quick with 220-120 - anything laying around. You don't have to go down to bare metal. Going to BM is really just for larger dents and serious damage. How that helps - if not ask again :)
Can I send you some work? Haha
That'd be cool if you could send a car back and forth UPS :)
@@LakesideAutobody well I’d deliver it and pick it up
@@JO-rh7io For some reason right now I'm booked up with jobs through the winter. Got to catch up a bit. What are you working on?
@@LakesideAutobody IH scout
@@JO-rh7io Those are cool. Are you thinking of doing the work yourself or no?
What is your opinion on the new acrilic sanding blocks? Like Big Kid Blocks and Lucky Blocks.
Have not used them but they seem legit. As long as the block has a firm pad and stays somewhat firm you're good. Remember if you're trying to get something straight your block has to stay straight. You don't really need anything to flex - the block does the blocking YOU do the curving if you get what I mean.
Great video. Speaking of block sanding pads, your medium sanding block looks like it has an extra thick pad. Did you make it that way, or where did you buy it? Thanks.
I was worried if someone would notice that. That is a flip flop sole from Dollar General cut to fit the board. It was the only foam I could find stiff enough to not flex too much and follow the contour. It was a completely flat sole, the stiffness that I needed but a bit thick, and just big enough. I really should get a new board but I've had this guy since I was 20 - it's a good friend - never lets me down :)
@@LakesideAutobody I could put some paper on a pair of them and skate my hood smooth.
@@LakesideAutobody Let me guess....you used "Shoe Goo" to make the pads stick? :-)
@@georgezap1906 Probably would have worked well. I think I used 3m Spray Adhesive.
@@LakesideAutobody Excellent. I use 3M Spray to "tack" and align fiberglass patches. By the way your Surform cheese grating technique on 'green' Bondo cut my work time in at least half, thank you. I used two old blades from wood projects, one flat and one convex, and thought I knew everything after 40 years of hobby work -- you are the MAN!
Excellent videos as always, only thing I woul;d say is if you could offer up the products you use to camera [like the putty tube you used] as they are sometimes called different things here in the UK, so not always sure what to look for
For sure - I'll list the products used in the description - thanks for the comment and have a good weekend :)
Thanks . I think I got it now . on high spots you tap down and fill with filler . then sand down . prime and block . same on low side except you just fill. Sand and reprime . block again . you should end up with a perfect panel . wow a lot of work .
You've got it - yes it is a bit of work to get a perfectly straight panel. Sometimes after all that work you still see something wrong with it too - but that's "par for the course" as they say :)
@@LakesideAutobody thank you !! i am subscribed . 😁
@@direct998 Thanks - feel free to ask ?s - I get to them 1-2 times a day :)
@@LakesideAutobody hi I. Did the block sanding . I took care of the low spots with 2k glaze putty . I reprinted . looks good but the areas where I last used the glaze show through . it didn't do this last time . should I skip adding the reducer for a more thicker build .?? I'm using primer surfacer . 4 . 1 . 1 . four parts primer 1 part hardener 1 part reducer .
@@direct998 Yes - every time you do body work (use of any type of filler) you have to prime and block with thicker primer surfacer. Thin "finish primer" is only used for finish sanding - when everything has been block sanded perfectly straight :)
Thank you Jerry , I bought all three after watching your videos.
You're welcome Jon - hope everything is good with you my friend. Good to hear from you as always :)
I love your videos ! Thank you so much for sharing what you know!
(Australia)
I'm glad to hear that my friend - you're welcome. How's Australia lately - everyone in the US is worried and scared about the events in the world :)
Do you use same sanding directions for areas with contours like quarter panel wheel arches? Also how would you gauge if spot putty would be enough for a low spot or if you need a thicker filler? Thanks for the videos. Attacking my first rust repair and they’re helpful
No matter what the shape of the panel is, I always try to cancel out the last direction of sanding I was doing. If you go diagonal then you would change up and go diagonal in the opposite directing. I you use circles cancel them out with straight sanding or diagonal. There's no rules even though these guys on tv say there is. You do what works for each individual job. Here's a good vid for contours: th-cam.com/video/-66tf0tpeqo/w-d-xo.html or th-cam.com/video/PkDY4b_I8w0/w-d-xo.html Hope that answers your ? - Jerry
Hey Jerry another great video, is that primer 2K or not ? …. Many thanks
Nice video I wanted to see this video on black sanding can you leave a link where I can purchase these long blocks thank you for the video Jerry stay safe
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KITT40/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I like this one because it can securely clamp the paper if it's non stick. Have a great weekend :)
Hi is possible to do a video about paint reaction crazing bubbleing etc how prevent it. Thanks
Good suggestion. I'll try to come up with something on that. Thanks :)
What are your tips for doing a polyester glaze after your done with your bondo and before you prime?
We used to use it in a shop I worked at. I liked it - sanded easy, went on nice, put it right over paint or primer, never shrank, etc. Just something I don't use now because of the cost. I try to get my filler right on - maybe use a tiny bit of lacquer putty -(Bondo Glazing and Spot Putty) - super cheap, super easy to sand, don't have mix, dries real fast. I'll do a video on that topic - there is a lot of info and thoughts on that topic. Hope that helps you out a bit.
???? Can you get the high and low spots with a DA (electrical) ? .... I have some guys saying it possible , yet ever body shop video I have seen (including yours ) use one of the three blocks (long, med, short rubber).. Hell most of them say just use a short rubber.. Any clarity on this possible solution ? BTW great videos... At the Trade School level...
It all depends on how straight you want it. Yes you can get it pretty straight with a DA, short rubber block, etc. The rule of thumb is the larger the dent or area of damage the longer the board used. Thus for small stuff a DA or small block is fine - for larger stuff you have to use the long board to "bridge" and get it straight. Hope that helps - if not ask again :)
@@LakesideAutobody thx that helps..Lol i guess a video on DA vs block straightness would be in question...lol...but dont want to bog u down....lol..thx..
@@alphathefirstone1222 Great suggestion - I'm writing it down. Don't think that any ? is silly. Ask anything you want - sometimes the most simple sounding ? has a ton of depth. Like DA vs Block - excellent!
Have you ever done a Vw beetle pre 67
I haven't. Why? Do you have one?
@@LakesideAutobody that’s all I do . And I have 2,beetle
@@LakesideAutobody I haven’t seen videos of a beetle being bodywork and the details to really get one done . I do them because I love working on them . I can rebuild a pan , I can bodywork work the body , paint it buff it out , I can build it. and I also wire it up , and I can do the Interior Basically everything except the motor and transmission only because I hate oil underneath my fingernails lol
What about Durablocks
I bought one to do a video on but haven't got to it yet - I'm not sure about the flexing so we'll see. I have to have something straight and true. I has to tell you the truth - can't flex at all. They might work great on convex panels like old fashioned fenders and the like.
@@LakesideAutobody I like to do bodywork and stuff as a hobby So I like learning new techniques but don’t you sometimes need a block to flex for certain areas
I was watching this video on the TV and then you started to do some detail on the longboard and short board and it also has sandpaper on it. so I went on my phone to see if you had any affiliate links to the products. You only had one! You should link to them all
Do you mean like make a list of all the products and tools I use for the video?
@@LakesideAutobody yes. Your videos make what you do look simple. I know it's experience you have that makes it look that way. But also it's the simplicity of the tools you use. And I would just buy what you're using. If you had affiliate links and got a nickel for me doing it through your links I think that would be great
@@m2useinu I get it now - yes that would be nice if those companies would be into that. I will list the products and tools I use on each video so you can get the same stuff :)
May I ask what brand primer and paint you use? Did you ever use speedokote or Eastwood? Thank you. Enjoy your weekend!
I use lacquer primer from Auto Body Master. I get it for around $50/gal and when mixed you actually will get about 3 gallons from it so it's cheap, drys fast, builds fast, sands easy, doesn't harden in the cup (you can pour the unused portion back in the can). That said speedkote or Eastwood primers and any other auto body quality primers are great and I'm sure they all work fine - just have to find one you like and that is in your budget. Urethane and lacquer primer are usually primer surfacers (build thickness) whereas epoxy is usually just a primer like a sealer.
@@LakesideAutobody Thank You
@@LakesideAutobody is auto body master a store or mail order?
Great video Jerry!
Thanks UPK
Another great video. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks and have a good weekend :)
You are the best teacher on youtube thank you
You're welcome Hapaboy :)
Great work as always. When I first saw you sand the putty and feel the surface for smoothness, I grew concerned. It seemed like you were falling back on your skills and experience I can’t come close to. Then you sprayed it and block sanded it again and it became clear. Before I start block sanding my primer surfacer I will watch this video again. I am off now to find those sanding blocks. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
R,
Frank
You're welcome Frank - feel free to ask any ?s - even if they seem easy as heck :)
@@LakesideAutobody I have been advised to let body fill “gas out” and fully cure for a week before epoxy spraying. Is there any truth in that?
@@frankkennedy5361 Absolutely no truth in that. If that were true, all these dealerships and body shops would be backed up to years and/or having work coming back with problems because the filler is primed minutes after it's finished with 80 grit. Good question Frank - good for others to hear to dispel myths :)
@@LakesideAutobody I know body shops don’t wait long before priming over fill, thought I would ask anyway. Not waiting a few days doesn’t necessarily mean it is a best practice. However, your point about problems and call backs is spot on. Once myths get circulated they have a life of their own.
@@frankkennedy5361 I don't think it would hurt to do it but then you have to think of letting the metal sit w/o primer on it so.... sort of a trade off. I think it's just best to do your body work and prime it when you're done or ready to prime :)
NOW it makes sense, thanks.
You're welcome :)
Great vid keep them coming
Thanks - I will :)
Are you using 2k primer or lacquer primer?
Lacquer primer but not opposed to 2k urethane primer for primer surfacer. I'm really OK with lacquer as that's all they had for many, many years. Cheap, builds fast, dries fast, sands easy, and you can throw the unused portion back in the can or keep it in your gun w/o hardening.
@@LakesideAutobody Thanks for your reply just wanna ask how’s the corrosion resistance of these primers or do you have to use etch primer before applying it on bare metal as it is recommended on 2k primer.
@@IM-nh8hn Lacquer primer doesn't need an etch primer before applying but you can't let it sit outside for long as it is porous and the metal will start to rust underneath. That being said, if you keep it indoors you will have no problems and once it's painted you'll never have a problem with it. If you use it correctly it's a perfect primer - to me anyway. Most will say 2k is the way to go and it probably is a better quality primer - 2k "primer surfacer" that is ... It's all up to you what you prefer to me they all work great - I just try to keep the cost down. Hope that answers any questions - if not feel free to ask more :)
Best info that I can find on TH-cam. Thanks
You're welcome Steve - have a great week :)