Winds of Winter Predictions: The Murder Bank
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- The twin powers of Braavos - the Faceless Men and the Iron Bank - are emerging as hidden hands that shape the great game. What influence will they exert over the players in The Winds of Winter?
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This series that Quinn and yourself are doing is stellar. It’s actually hyping me up once again for “Winds.”
it's finally time to forget the show and get back to the book cannon, praise R'hllor... the fandom needed some time to deal with the disappointment, straight up.
winds will never be released.
It's not only hyping me up for "Winds"; it's helping me to detox from my alcohol addiction. I'm no longer waking up in the morning, and drinking myself back to sleep as an alternative to suicide. As an American, I now have something to look forward to again. Thank you. Please keep 'em coming.😃
@@cesarrodriguez8893 im not so sure. GRRM has said some things much more recently that give me the mingling thought that hes almost done with the manuscript. Im honestly withholding my enthusiasm, but theres been some buzzing from his direction.
I have no hopes for A Dream of Spring, however, unless he's been writing both books simultaneously before he submits his manuscripts.
Same!
Don't forget that in "Fire and Blood" the Sealord of Braavos purchased the three dragon eggs stolen from Dragonstone. So they were perfectly willing, if not hoping, to have dragons in their city. They even forgave the Iron Thrones debt to the Iron Bank and risked war to keep them. There is no way they can be considered anti-dragon, at least as far as the creatures themselves.
@The Program 🤔 Interesting!
Yeah I’m almost 100% positive. Dany’s hatched eggs are the eggs Elissa Farman stoke and sold. Jaeherys told them to make sure those “chickens don’t hatch.” Dany spent her early life in Bravos and while there aren’t lemon trees in the city. Sea Lords have vast exotic gardens. So the sea lord at the time was helping Darry hide Visarys and Daenerys. They probably gave the eggs to Illirrio to gift to Dany. Dany has had assassination attempts but none from Faceless Men even after the hatching. So it’s not Targaryens or Dragons they just have a healthy respect for the threat they can be.
@The Program ouroboros
Did they want dragons or did they want to destroy their means of creation?
It might have been an investment. To resell. To keep, to make sure they never hatched.
What I hope to see for Stannis is that he wins the Battle of Ice, brings the North together with Jon's support, and then the White Walkers come and he turns his attention to them. In the first true battle against the Others Stannis will be defeated, his Kingship at an end and all the talk of him being Azor Ahai comes to a swift end too when he dies at the hands of the Others. From a narrative perspective it's a fittingly tragic end for him.
That makes a ton of sense actually. He might mimic the last hero, ending up cold and alone and hounded by the Others with only a broken sword to defend himself. I think the OG last hero died and was resurrected, like Jon will be, but Stannis might just show us the dying part (this is what Waymar does in the prologue)
Agree, I think Stannis will be stuck up north dealing with the white walker invasion throughout WoW.
i agree! that would be a fulfilling end to his story, way more than Brienne’s execution (love you girlie but that’s not it for Stannie The Mannis). I also think he’s the most likely candidate for the first, or one of the first, lords to take the Others seriously (Mel does ofc but my man Stan is a little preoccupied); it’s fitting he’d help stabilize the North and then join the fight for humanity.
Faceless men, iron bank and sealord
Versus
The citadel, the faith and house Hightower.
Triadbowl!
sealord is as powerfull as the prince of pentos. they are only public faces without real power. the power hold other people. those who are in the shadows.
I can't wait! Althought I think it's pretty obvious who'd win.
The Nights Watch and Westeros easily pay off any loan to the Iron Bank. It’s called the lumber trade. Bravos has been and will always be in need of lumber as Bravos has no trees.
Dany is also, interestingly enough, one of the few 'players'/major powers in Westeros that isn't yet in debt. You mention the IT, Stannis, and the Watch as in debt, yet Dany so far has escaped being in debt to the Iron Bank, which means they're free to back her without any kind of conflict of interest (heh heh, interest??? Get it??? It's a money joke). I didn't think about it until now, but Dany seems to be trying to avoid going into debt at all (she wants to find a way to outright pay for ships vs getting a loan), I wonder if that's important.
If a system like the Iron Bank existed, they would not back somebody that wasn't willing to take loans and make themselves a puppet. Of course, a system like the Iron Bank cannot exist on its' own as it seems to do in Martin's world: If their system of regime-change is handing out free money to back potential rebels if they don't receive their money back, they wouldn't be very succesful at all ... You throw money away and don't get it back. Now your solution is to throw more money at your problem? What if your rebels lose? What if they win but don't pay you back either? Are you going to fund another opposition? No, Cersei's right: You are a paper tiger at that point. Power. Is power. Especially in a world of real, existing currency and economy.
In our day and age (where Martin's ideas are coming from), things are different. We have a largely imaginary economy with our stock market and most of our money is created and used exclusively in our heads. It doesn't have any equivalence in reality. In a system with imaginary money, the one that decides who has how much of it is the hidden ruler. In a medieval world, the one that commands the knights and lords is the ruler. Period - land, titles and military might are much more important than mere coins. And a bank cannot create even these coins from a vacuum ...
Uhm, sorry for the rant, I got sidetracked hard I guess.
Ba'al the Bard debt is slavery
@@abcdef-cs1jj They could easily have a long standing agreement with the FM where, the FM get a permanent allowance and the Iron Bank has a trump card. Why send armies when you can send 1 man that can end a dynasty. The Iron Bank could be the Medici from AC if Ezio was their personal enforcer. This is speculation but not implausible.
TL;DR: i a world ran by glorified Mafia families, the Iron Bank has the most dangerous shooters.
@@abcdef-cs1jj The iron bank uses the faceless men to collect on their debts and remove people who oppose them.
It might be very important - cool idea!
BTW, never explain your jokes.
I think Tyrion will indeed get his hands on the dragon books behind the black Walls in Volantis, right after Danny crushes the old blood, and with them, the slave trade, once and for all
tyrion will poison danys mind. using her as a flaming sword against his half-sister cersei.
This series of videos is probably the one I've enjoyed most from both your and Quinn's work. It's really lifted my spirits for the last few days knowing that I have a new video to watch.
oh well gosh that fills me with warm fuzzies :)
26:11 Remember, Arya disarmed the Kindly Man of his stick and outed him as her attacker by warging into one of her cats, and the Kindly Man had no idea how she knew.
This is what I like about the books. There’s more at play then just the Lannisters, Starks, and Targaryens. The Baratheons might be around a while longer. The Greyjoysand Martells feel like they are gonna play big roles when storylines start to come together. We have the Iron Bank, the Freefolk, and Volantis, threats that were non existent by season 5 of the show, look to play big roles going forward. Hell, we even have another Targaryen, and the Blackfish is still kicking it, as well as Stoneheart, Mance, and Jeyne Westerling. There are so many stories to continue into, whereas by Season 5, there were only really three big stories at the end, being Jons Death, Dany’s Return to the Dothraki, and Cersei’s Vengeance, and, to me at least, none of them seemed to be changed by these moments, apart from world changes and not character ones.
Jaqen's mission could be Barth's dragon book, or maybe a glass candle, but he became Pate at the beginning of AFFC and is still just chilling there when Sam meets him at the end. You'd think someone with Jaqen's skills would be able to steal something in less time than that. I think Jaqen was Pate for so long because his mission hadn't yet arrived in Oldtown. He was waiting for Sam, or someone/something that arrived with Sam. The Horn of Winter perhaps?
jaqen is after the book. and after a babe. the horn of winter is not what we think. it is, typical for george, a person. people are refered to swords. and why not with horns?
@@anne-kathrinhohlig1466 Aemon Steelsong is an intriguing possibility with his king's blood. George set up quite a mystery with that line "The boy was Mance Rayder's son and Craster's grandson, after all. He had none of Sam's craven blood."
I really like the faceless men and have been waiting to see what Pate is up to in Oldtowne
This series is killing me. First and foremost, I absolutely love it and wish you would/could go longer than 23 days.
That said, every time I've seen the notification pop up on my phone the last few days, all I see is "Winds of Winter" and immediately think that a publication announcement has been made. 😢
That should be the 24th topic, prediction on release date!
look at it this way - we are all collectively focusing our intent to manifest this book
I've been MANifesting so hard.
The word foremost is right above the word notification on your post... I seriously read it as "fornication" at first glance and had to do a double-take 😂
@@kerrirae no fornication in the murder bank, sorry
One theory I’ve read about is of the Nights Watch debt to the Iron Bank. Bravos is a trade power ruled by sea lords, but has no or few trees as we know firewood is expensive there. The nightswatch have so much wood north of the wall that they can’t cut it all down to keep the treeline away from the wall.
The Iron Bank will use their power over the nightswatch to gain the wood to maintain their fleet.
Damn that's an interesting theory!
Gave me a profit boner.
I think one of the most significant ways Tyrion could help Daenerys is to find a way to pay a portion of the crown's debt in her name. He was master of coin so he has intimate knowledge of the debt. What better way to undermine Cersei, or any other claimant? Not to mention as you say, the IB is connected to the Sea Lord, so bringing the IB to Dany's side could also get the Sea Lord to lend his ships to her cause. I'll never understand why Tyrion and Varys didn't do that in the show because Cersei's alliance with the Iron Bank is what allowed her to remain viable in the war.
Also, once I realized D&D weren't going to utilize the valonqar prophecy in Cersei's death, I thought if they wanted to be bold while respecting their own cannon, they could've had season 8 Tycho actually be Jaqen and had him assassinate Cersei. Hell it could've been revealed that Olenna and Varys had arranged the hit w/the Tyrell gold that they let Cersei steal, so effectively Cersei would've paid the fee of her own assassination. It would give a certain irony to the phrase "a Lannister always pays their debts". In fact Jaqen could've said that to her as she's choking on the strangler, and then changed his face to reveal himself for the audience. When Tycho smirked and said "tragedies are sometimes necessary to restore order and rational leadership", then Cersei invited him to stay in the city as her guest, I actually thought they might go there. But no...
The only character that raised the issue is Ned Stark. Going into debt was Littlefinger doing as much as King Robert.
@@whitneymohrhauser8753 Correct. But Tyrion served as master of coin so he'd know the debt exists and the amount. He's an intelligent and clever man; so it stands to reason that he'd figure out bringing the Iron Bank to Dany's cause would completely undermine Cersei while immensely helping Daenerys. So he'd act to make it happen.
@@ashleyofnaath I think Tyrion power to do things were limited both by Cersei's an Tywin's hatred of him. If he had free reign Tyrion would never married Sansa Stark. Even if he raised alarm bells about the debt I don't think Tyrion will be heard or taken seriously.
@@whitneymohrhauser8753 You are misunderstanding my point. It has nothing to do with the restrictions placed on Tyrion while he served as master of coin. I'm saying once he starts serving Daenerys, (who won't impose the same restrictions on him as Cersei or Tywin) one of the things he could do to help her while hurting her enemies is to pay part of the crown's debt in Dany's name to bind the Iron Bank to her cause. That alliance may have the added benefit of the Sea Lord's navy, which Dany could use as well. As a former master of coin, Tyrion would be aware of the debt. As someone who would want to prove himself as a capable advisor/Hand, Tyrion would use his knowledge of the debt to help his new Queen (Dany). As someone who hates his sister, he will do everything he can to depose her. Honoring a debt that Cersei won't makes sense.
@@whitneymohrhauser8753 If you're meaning referring to the show, my response is more or less the same. Dany didn't impose any restrictions on Tyrion; just the opposite. She deferred and capitulated to almost everything he said, with the exception of naming an heir prior to her taking the throne. So your point is moot.
"I love gooooooolllllddd" I got your Austin Powers reference LML.
Tycho is probably one of my favourite characters in ADWD tbh he's so out of place, yet in control most of the time (starting with an iconic entrance), it has me like "please teach me your braavosi banker ways, good sir" lol
That was either the winds of winter blowing or GRRM proving words are wind when he promised the book being done this summer.
fair... he might finish this summer, but it won't be out by then
Lucifer means Lightbringer of course. Just the being finished would be cool. Like really cool.
I can’t lie I am kind of mad that he keeps giving us this schedule about how he promises he won’t do anything till TWOW is done... but THEN he’s going back to all the other stuff.
It should be finished ice and fire period!
And I’ve been one of the patient people but it stopped being cool lol
He didn't promise the boom, he promised news of the book.
Ain't nobody more gangsta than the bank.
when you want to steal money, found a bank. this is known 😎
I’m most interested in what’s Euron up to. The dude’s basically the anti christ
Oh man we totally forgot about Euron!
sike
We got one coming :)
Lucifer means Lightbringer thx, bro
@helBob 🤣🤣🤣 *laughs in Season 8 Dany*
Euron is a fraud. Does nothing in the books. Everything he's done was in the past. the only thing going for him is that he's mysterious with exotic toys. I think GRRM will write him to be a phony.
I like the idea that the Iron Bank will aid Dany, them seeking out Dragon lore as a backup just incase their alliance goes sour and they need to whack her (unleashing dragons without anyone to control them is bad for business).
I've really enjoyed the series ya'll are doing together. I'd love to hear ya'lls thoughts on what exactly Stannis was doing entrusting his entire loan from Murder Bank (Iron Bank will forever be Murder Bank now btw) to the incredibly self-interested and not super loyal Justin Massey. That was deliberate, I just can't fathom why.
oh you didn't buy Stannis's "you're handsome and well-spoken" line? i hadn't given it much thought
@@DavidLightbringer yeah that whole interaction is just off. Even Massey's immediately like "Uh, nobody's going to care to listen to me' and Stannis just does a 180 and tells Massey that he can then just use gold to convince people to join up. Doubly weird that both Stannis & Demon Monkey make a show of signing contracts they don't seem to have any intention of honoring in blood...
Actually starting a centralized bank was the only good idea she had. A centralized bank can be used to build infrastructure projects, maintain a standing army and navy and begin organized international trade. The Westerosi economy is behind Essos by about 100 years.
It is a good idea, I agree, it's just not going to fly when they are ignoring their debts to the Iron Bank.
Lucifer means Lightbringer In fire and blood it was mentioned the Reach have a Bank of Oldtown and Tywin lent money to minor lords and major merchants. While there are other major banks in Essos all combined don’t equal Braavos and none of them are content with Braavos being the #1. They would lend to Westeros at a ridiculously high interest rate and demand collateral. If they can’t collect in gold I have little doubt they would raid Westeros for slaves or perhaps Cersei would sell the small folk of KL to avoid feeding or protecting them during the winter. It’s in Cersei’s nature.
Without capital (gold- they are on the gold standard!) to back it up, they don't have much of a bank.
I love Tycho - I hope there is some way of working him into the story further! … I do wonder how many of the Faceless Men are from Keyholder families, and it leads in with my thoughts about the FM yesterday, with the question of do they have to be paid for every assassination, or are there circumstances where they do it for free (e.g. justice, gods' will, Iron Bank links)
I personally rlly think the faceless men are a lot more involved in the battle against the others it just thematically makes so much sense for them. The others defy death that is sacrilege it would be a holy war in their opinion. And I think arya might have been a part of that however that might be
once that occurred to me I can’t see anything else being true, yeah. the wights are an abomination to them
Absolutely loving this series and such frequent content , keep up the great work LmL & Quinn. The Iron Bank are certainly capable of huge moves , they are quite comfortable playing king or queen maker and given their resources , those indebted to them and access to hiring the FM can certainly impose huge influence all over Planetos and will likely do so in the remaining books in the series. Who the IB end up properly backing will benefit massively , at least for as long as the IB feels necessary and how amenable and useful they are to the Iron bank going forward. And with Jaqen after the book about killing dragons likely at the IB's behest , the IB may feel somewhat threatened by the emergence of Dany / her dragons and likely want mitigating options in that respect to have in their back pocket.
I do believe anyway that the Iron Bank will not want the emergence of any more regimes which include dragons, being well acquainted of the heinous possibilities that can result with evidence from before and after the Doom and through to the Targ Westerosi dynasty. Although at least the IB should consider Dany's actions and overall intent to be rid of such practices like slavery. Also Cersei is indebted to them substantially and not paying up to the standards the IB deem acceptable which can and likely will put her in a precarious situation. The IB have been huge power-players in the current narrative era and for some time in the past history as well ; I expect them to certainly be an integral component in the books' endgame narrative.
You can see why they're backing Stannis
Neither Cersei not Dany are satisfactory for them.
The assembly line of ships is an allusion to the city of Carthage that did the exact same thing. They were renown for their ability to pump out ships via assembly lines.
I can't believe how much hype you guys give me with those videos, God I hope winds of winter come soon😆😆
The two most fashionable streamers in the game, at least until Alt Shift X's face reveal.
At this point I mostly want WoW just to see which of my favorite theorists are correct! I've been watching other ASOIAF creators for years and have recently started binging your content! love it! 😊
I don't think stannis will die so soon. Barristan will have more of a chance to die as George wants less pov characters and he isn't so useful aside being a warrior who ran into a trap so I doubt he will live long before Dany comes as he woundt like Tyrion taking his spot if he lived.
Stannis still has a lot of story as Shereen will die and helping the north is what stannis is doing. Don't know how people don't know anti stannis means anti North
You don’t have to kill off a character just stop using him/her as a POV presenter
@@210SAi well George said he wants to prune the extra pov and barristan has the least amount of role if Tyrion and jorra return to dany while Ariane seems the same when or if she gets to him alive going through "shipwreck bay" on sea.
Either way i do hope whoever is taken out gets proper send off.
Also sidenote. Wow perfect timing I was just getting back into got a shot while ago and thinking about this topic again.
You guys, the joining of your minds=awesome content. Please dont ever stop!!!
Great stuff, this series is awesome. I love Braavos! GRRM is telling us all about the place in a subtle way that reflects how they operate. I like how you empathize the impact they could have on the whole story.
Just use Bronn's tactic
"The iron bank needs you to repay"
"But what if I don't"
"..."
6:17"The death of the dragons" is the name that the fictional author of "Fire and Blood" gave to the dance of the dragons.
ahhh thanks for the correction.
@@DavidLightbringer I have finished that book a few weeks ago, so you're wellcome
That's not quite accurate. The author refers to it as "The Dying of the Dragons". Also that's not really what's being talked about in the quote you linked.
Wait so the book locked up in the Citadel vault that no one has seen is just the in-universe version of the book Fire and Blood?
Boy do I love watching these every day
If the Bank and the Faceless Men work together, it is literally possible and inevitable for the Bank to run everything on the planet. They can replace any leader at any time and do whatever they wish like Arya does to the Freys in the television series.
Yeah just like real banks run everything right?
This is basically real life 😅
Hardhome in the books is maybe word-for-word the most terrifying and fascinating part of the whole ASOIF world. I would love George to write a in-universe Braavosi gazette to get a look at the types of rumors going around about what’s happening there.
Also such godforsaken bad luck that the Night’s Watch shows up to evacuate Wildlings AFTER Slavers have already been there.
I have to admit something: i first heard about the saga thanks to the TV show and then i started on the book just to see what went down next but thanks to that i feel i really missed out on all the details and world building George created. But these video series is reigniting my interest for WoW more than ever
Gotta r ad the books SO MUCH better
This is really cool. I haven't spent much time thinking about the Iron Bank because it's one of the plot lines I've never found as interesting as others. But the idea that Cersei isnt taking them seriously and they function in a sort of mob gangster threat way is interesting. I think a lot about how Martin is portraying the dawn of a new age with the winter is coming narrative. Is the Iron Bank symbolizing a beginning of capitalism on Planetos as feudalism dies off?
Kris B lol so the books aren’t really a fantasy story but a treatise on economics in a fantasy world?
@@210SAi I was semi-joking with saying that about the Iron Bank, but George references real world history and society a lot in ASOIAF
The Iron Bank plotline has me wondering if Stannis might live longer and have more to do with "saving the world" than I previously thought. If the Iron Bank ends up supporting Stannis and it goes.... nowhere.... then it seems like that plotline might fall a little bit flat? So maybe all that Azor Ahai symbolism around Stannis is more than just echoes of Jon and Dany's archetypes. Maybe it's another case of "three" where Stannis is a third "head" of AA. That would mean Mel is not totally wrong, just that she doesn't get the prophecy is about more than one person.
Quinn the most interesting guest
Yo these are so lit
You should have talked about Stannis sending Justin Massey to Essos. I have a feeling that story line will intersect with Arya's
One of the things I'm most looking forward to in Winds (after what happens with Jon of course) is how Dany and the Dragons will impact the politics of Braavos. I'm wondering if maybe Braavos will split into pro and anti Dany factions, debating whether to intervene in Slaver's Bay and on which side
It`s Braavos, the anti-slavery, of course
@@diegoolivaresgonzalez42 and the iron bank is boiling. why? dany has simply ended money making with slaves. and the iron bank has more then 100 hands in slave trade.
@@anne-kathrinhohlig1466 Is posible, but I bet that the Iron Bank is not directly involved.
I mean, the bank can have unpayed debts of slavers... but being directly involved could be a easy way to make the Iron Bank fall using the faceless men and a popular revolt.
Wonderful series! I enjoy watching them a lot. Thanks 💕
right on! happy to be of service
Dude these are so sweet! My favorite song youtubers are killing it!
Cersei if she lives threw her trail by combat. Is going to end up dead for crossing the Iron Bank. Cersei is not bright nor is she remotely educated by in the ways of the world.
Yes! It's here! The gods of ASOIAF heard our plight
Damn, I need my books
#24 could be your prediction of the TWOW release date!
The words murder bank intrigue me
So if the seven kingdoms break up and no one sits on the Iron throne... Who owes the debt? Loop hole!
brodie ward well you’d think the Iron bank would back or place whomever they feel can rule Westeros in place of the bank. I doubt all 7 kingdoms could survive in isolation too long.
The Sealord of Braavos oversaw marriage pact,before debt ended to be collected,so a Tarrgarean restoration was Braavos policy,unless,Ilyrio bribed the Sealord at that time
One thing that just came to me,Targaryens didnt have dragons at the time of marriage pact,a restoration may not be their policy now,just the massive debt,which leaves Stannis and Feagon.Be interesting to see if Iron Bank hires away all Dany's ssell swords for Stannis
The Faceless Men & Targeryen's may have a very old relationship, I have always found it curious that the Targs were dragon lords in Valyria but not high up in the ruling aristocracy. From this we can assume they were long standing dissidents & critics/opponents of the ruling order & culture of Valyria. The Targs setting up as traders at Dragonstone may be the key - did the Targs assist with the founding of Braavos? Is that why Viserys & Dany had refuge there for a time? Has there been a long standing alliance between the Targs & Faceless Men to eliminate slavery, starting with Valyria, but later via Dany & the return of dragons, Slavers Bay & Volantis? This would explain why the Voltantene triarchs are eager to destroy Dany, because they may know there is much more to what she is doing then just acting on her instincts & sense of justice. The FM are the enforcers for the Iron Bank, they are a shadow army, hence their worship for the Many Faced God, in reality their religion is a twisted warrior cult, but they fight war in a different way, that is what gives the Iron Bank power. Jon got it right, by loaning gold to Stannis, they are throwing in with him & we can be certain that one of Arya's missions is going to be to murder Cersei - but in a particular way, to ensure that all the gold of Casterly Rock is assigned to the Iron Bank, may be Casterly Rock itself (this has been forshadowed by Tyrion pledging the Rock's gold to the Second Sons, who can be or may be are owned by the Iron Bank/FM). Arya is the "valonqar", the little brother Tommen after she kills him & takes his face, & stanggles Cersei with Cersei believing her own son is murdering her, only for Arya to reveal herself at the last seconds of Cersei's life as the beautiful young woman who takes all she holds dear, forshadowed partially in the Mercy chapter when she kills Raff & reveals herself. This is all going to get very very dark.
Sorry but there is no chance. Braavos was founded a long time before the Targs packed up and left for Dragonstone. The Targs also still had slaves when they moved to Dragonstone and Viserys had no objection to slavery. Even Dany didn't really oppose it at first. That is more of a book 3 plot point as far as ending the practice. There is also no reason to think the Targs were opposed to the ruling order. Take Westeros. How long have some of the lesser houses like Bolton, Manderly, Tarley, Strong, Dayne, etc... competed for power and influence against the great houses of their respective realms? Not ending up as one of the principal houses of Westeros wasn't for lack of trying. Dragonstone was/is also not a major trade hub. Lastly while Viserys and Dany were taken in at first by Braavos they were not protected for long. Soon they had to flee with pretty much nothing and Viserys became known as the beggar king. I can't see any evidence for an alliance between Braavos and House Targaryen.
@@charlese2714
There's no real evidence. But I don't think such an alliance is as implausible as you make out.
It is highly plausible that the Targaryens moved to Dragonstone out of discontent with the Valyrian political order.
And the Targaryen kings certainly enforced the Westerosi ban on slavery.
@@charlese2714 When was Braavos founded? Do you know? No one knows. And the Targs operated out of Dragonstone before they settled there permanently, Dragonstone having been founded 200 yrs before the Doom. Note that I am guessing, we are not debating the history of the real world here but a work of fiction - just in case you didn't realise that the world of ice & fire exists in the authors head, may be you think it is out there somewhere, waiting to be found.
@@alanpennie8013 The Targs were derided by the Valyrians for leaving out of cowardice - I ask cowardice against what? The author is suggesting they opposed some thing. What did they oppose? We don't know.
@@vorborinov4054
Indeed.
Possibly the so - called prophecy was really inside information about the plans of The Faceless.
Gosh I love that you guys are collabing so much :)
You two are absolute f***ing legends. So much food for thought in this series. Cheers guy's 👍
Again it's a huge mistake to think the Bravosi as a unified entity. There are factions in every organization and city-state.
Also don't forget that Marwyn has Dragon books.
And oberyn was inside the blacks walls of Volantis.
hey, so I don't want to be that guy....Actually screwed I really do. I don't think that marriage pact is real.
- We don't get a name for the signatory just the title The sealord of braavos. We have a name for the current one and I think they've mentioned past ones in the story. But the letter had no name so I'm skeptical.
- Also Ser William Dairy is not a Lord and can't make a marriage Pact.
- Oberyn was not a Lord and can't make a marriage pact only Doran can. Think about it, why and how could a younger son make a marriage pact, Especially one with people that are not his children?
-Yes Catelyn negotiated Robbs Marriage but remember she was Lady of Winterfel and Walder Freay was... well Lord Frey.
- I don't think that the common people will look favorably upon Daenerys. They have a play called Wroth of the Dragon Lords. Even if she is ending slavery what is Daenerys if not a conquoring burning dragonlord?
Doran did make the marriage pact though, he says in feast that he and oberyn worked closely together. Anything oberyn agreed to would have been in Doran's name.
@@davidjones272 he certainly mentions it, but he offered him no Aid no assistance. No money, no intelligence, no support from his wife's family, Nothing also then why did the seal or put them out of the house? They literally would have starved to death if illiyro hadn't picked them up. It just seems really fishy.
I don't really believe in it either.
It surfaced at a moment when no one was really in a position to verify it (or the opposite)
Well Mellario might, if anyone was sufficiently interested to get in touch with her.
and doran visited the free cities lys, tyrosh and volantis during the time when aerys had sent his cousin steffon baratheon to find a bride of old and noble valyrian bloodline for his son rhaegar. and found strangely none. coincidence?
You guys make quite the duo! Thx for all the awesome content :)
Stannis does in fact sign the loan agreement in his own blood, but in the previous book, the captain of the Wind Blown reminds us how blood makes for terrible ink, as it just flakes away. I wonder if that was foreshadowing anything.🤔
Love the title.
Cool video you got yourself a new subscriber
Quinn's shirt kinda looks like it's designed to interface with the cruciform parasite. Like, he has tech that can control it.
The Iron Bank is Stewie:
*"WHERE'S MY MONEY? YOU GONNA GIVE ME MY MONEY?!"*
this series gave me LIFE
Lets go. watching now
So, Stannis plan is to secure the north, fight the others and win so much prestige by that, that the lords will offer him the throne, or at least that enough lords will support him to take the throne. Meanwhile there sits a dragon in griffins roost and another one in Meren together with 3 actual dragons.
I think the loan of the Iron Bank to Stannis is more of a message to Cersei, than support for Stannis. They don't expect him to win the throne, they will never get this loan back.
Another small thing that I think is better in the books is that the Iron Bank doesn’t offer financial support to Stannis until after Cersei proves herself to be an unreliable debtor. In the show they give him a loan because Davos gave this rousing speech on Stannis’ behalf. It makes more sense for shrewd bankers like Tycho Nestoris to only approve a loan if the risk makes sense and the current debtors are defaulting, not because some ex-smuggler speaks to them with conviction.
Awesome work as usual guys
I would love it if you guys did a video (or maybe even a series) going into depth about the faceless men and their involvement in the magical world as well as just their plots in general. Your Astronomy of Ice and Fire is great but I feel that semi casual fans like me could benefit from a breakdown of all the schemes that are happening in the background. I am loving this series and I hope you keep it up.
Really enjoyed this video from y’all! Smiled right along several times!
I fear the Iron Bank, and most of Braavos will be destroyed by the end of the series. I say that because it looks as if most of the world will be destroyed by the too. You can't collect from a dead person, and you certainly can't collect if you are dead. Then again, undead bankers. That's a scary thought.
hahaha THEY JUST WON'T DIE
big ups for the goldmember shout out!!
The fact that Cersei underestimated the Iron Bank’s capabiliities, but also said in the books AND TV show that, (essentially) “power is power” is so ironic to me lol.
This type of content is filling the void the shows last season left in my heart
I am excited about the video for Dornish storyline. I love Dornish in the Books. I am rooting for Prince Doran and House Martell in this Story.
That those ships can be built in a day is great writing. It's just crazy enough to be massively impressive and just barely not too crazy to be believed.
Obvious reference to the Venetian Arsenale, they could pump out galleys into the lagoon at a crazy pace for the time. It was an extemely modern system where they were mass producing ships and related parts starting in 1320, almost 500 years before the industrial revolution.
Droppin' em like it's HOTTT!
I could be wrong but wasn't the Iron Bank calling in loans all over Westeros? I know they have a big part to play moving forward. And it's said the Iron Bank is not to be messed with. Poor dumb Cersei
It wasn’t all Cersei that got into debt. Majority was LFs as master of coin
so now i gotta subscribe with Quinn in the house!
The faceless men and Iron Bank linking I always found interesting and my mind kinda adjusted to Faceless being like the enforcers or the other side of the coin or the power that the iron banks use to meddle on events.
can ideas of march be ideas of 2020 please thank you
I cannot express just how much I'd love to be involved with videos like this and the podcasts. I have a few little ideas for things like small changes that I believe would work in the show (one of which I have never heard anybody else say so I'm still proud of that one). I would be worried to post it and end up with no views and someone with a big channel stealing the credit. It's nothing special, but it's something that we haven't had in a while. It's new.
I really like your discussion series on how the books will go but do try to stop using the show as evidence for future material in books.
Both are so different that it makes no evidence seeing how bran could be king or Dany a killer when both are still stuck in places super far away from the throne.
Keep up the content
Well I don't think we are, in fact both of us are in the camp that the books will be quite different, and that's part of the reason for the series. Now as for King Bran, that has been confirmed as an idea which came from George, an I did an entire series to discuss how different the idea of "King Bran" will be in the books vs what we saw on HBO. As for Dany, I agree again - the show got her character quite wrong, and again I have done a whole series to explore that (it's a book-by-book Dany reread). Check those out and I bet we are on the same page my friend.
King Bran: th-cam.com/play/PLEHvft-cyPmC3WEswQQSUr--twdphR84S.html
Who is the Real Dany: th-cam.com/play/PLEHvft-cyPmCHvgnM3DML6WwasfPuaIms.html
@@DavidLightbringer ok I understand but do keep it to books until we get more info coming up. We still got two books coming
Half an hour of book content 👌
16:40 "There's less of them than there's ever been before."
Fewer. Stannis would be gritting his teeth.
dynamic duo. great stuff.
Ironborn fleet versus Braavosi Naval Power ... Wow !!
Yeah that would really be something wouldn't it?? You don't make a fleet that cool (Braavos) without having it fight a good sea battle
I just want to say you guys are awesome. I'm new to LML's channel although I've been watching Quinn's for a long time and seen LML there before, but yeah, you guys' ASOIAF content helps make the wait for the next book bearable. And this series you're doing, of which this video is my favorite so far, is excellent, really helps me stay hyped for the books.
I just gotta say- I love the idea of Faegon or even Dany *finally* taking the Iron Throne and getting slapped with a 'You Owe Us'~ 😂
I want Winds of Winter to come out!
Maybe this or next summer!
I've been watching these everyday !! And love it !! Thankyou so much !! Awesome !!
Make a connection from bankers of Bravo's with Italian American Gangsters? Venice also had an arsenal just like the one in Bravos
You all ever seen Friday? I think Big Worm was from Braavos" F#/* you PAY ME!"
Of course, I was a 90s teen
Wow books are way different guess ill start buying them
You guys are great. Soo excited to get back into the books
Loving this collaboration, keep up the great work!
I reckon the Faceless Men intend to support Dany until she wins the throne and stabilises Westeros, then kill her dragons. She's made it rather clear she's not Valyria's tyranny reborn. Her beliefs on slavery and the wellbeing of the common people line up quite nicely with their own. But how could they possibly trust her children? Or her grandchildren? Or great grandchildren? All of whom will have more dragons as time goes on. The Targaryens in Westeros had close to 30 dragons at the height of their power. If the Dance of Dragons had not happened, it would have only been a matter of time before they considered conquering Essos. They know if they give Dany's descendants the opportunity, they create the same risk.
danys anti-slavery fit with the bravosi. and not with the iron bank.
I can’t wait to see Meleys “The Red Queen” ridden by Rhaenys “The Queen Who Never Was”!!
Thank you for being some amazingly positive masc humans. I'm so happy to see more of that in the ASoIaF community. You've both brought my heart such joy.
Man ive been watching these non stop i love the new series going on here. Sure hope WoW comes out soon im sure much of what youve predicted will come true
@Lucifer Mean Lightbringer is it possible that aria killing the night king is actually simplifying the fact that the faceless men has a big hand in his death? And since they didn’t want to expand their story so much even without aria’s warging ability and they just needed aria out of bravos and a faceless men related plot to kill the night king...? I mean it would be a pretty wild idea if they just randomly chose aria without any reason from the book. At least for me if Sansa would have killed night king I would have had less trouble cause at least she get to be a queen! But aria has no relation to night king and her story is about faceless men and killing people on her list.... I wonder what do you think about it?