How the AoE2 AI Thinks (ft. Promi)

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ค. 2024
  • How do you make a computer so that it competes with an experienced human player? Let's look at the AI script and ask the person who programmed the AI to begin with.
    AI script: gist.github.com/Andygmb/1e3a6...
    Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
    Full intro song: • Spirit of the Law Chan...
    Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
    Game: Age of Empires 2 HD with Forgotten Empires, African Kingdoms, and Rise the Rajas expansions
  • เกม

ความคิดเห็น • 791

  • @samueljett7807
    @samueljett7807 5 ปีที่แล้ว +916

    A video I didn't know I wanted until now

    • @baldawen
      @baldawen 5 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      How I feel about every SotL video that's not a Civ Overview

    • @Namelesswhirl
      @Namelesswhirl 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I agree Samuel quite interesting...

    • @rurouniad
      @rurouniad 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      As someone who knows code this is both fun and cool. I could have watched a 40 minute video.

    • @adambishop328
      @adambishop328 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Truer words have never been said

    • @GreatKingOfLipnice
      @GreatKingOfLipnice 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Seconded. A good idea.

  • @FalsPals
    @FalsPals 5 ปีที่แล้ว +637

    Six minutes in:
    "My sheep perished when my folk sought to use it as food. No wonder thou wert victorious. I shalt abdicate"

    • @ambultrabae2175
      @ambultrabae2175 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      This gave me an laughattack, thanks for that friend! :D :D

    • @Khananbuilds
      @Khananbuilds 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      😂😂😂

    • @Gunth0r
      @Gunth0r 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      "My peasants used pig's bladders to catch their seed! No wonder thou wert victorious. I shalt abdicate."

    • @MarSHornetsandWasps-v26
      @MarSHornetsandWasps-v26 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      I couldst not replace the berries.

    • @sharilshahed6106
      @sharilshahed6106 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      "Thou art human, with soul and wit. I am naught but clockwork!"
      *resigns even before my first barracks*

  • @Heavysweating
    @Heavysweating 5 ปีที่แล้ว +284

    _Enemy scout passes by AI's base_
    Help! The enemy is in my town!

    • @hussammustafa477
      @hussammustafa477 5 ปีที่แล้ว +30

      At once, sire.

    • @MultiTwentyseven
      @MultiTwentyseven 5 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      Send me your spare ressources

    • @reeseweisgerber4268
      @reeseweisgerber4268 5 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Wood please

    • @madeiraislander
      @madeiraislander 5 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      @@VandalGaming-gw6bt it's not wise to attack while in the dark age sire!!!
      30 secs later
      Attack an Enemy NOOOOW!!!

    • @himangijayakar2322
      @himangijayakar2322 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      AI FOoOoDplzWwwooooooooodplzGoooooldddplzStoooooooneplzz
      me you have 30000 food 30000 gold 30000 stone and 30000 wood

  • @RiseOFStalker
    @RiseOFStalker 2 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    We need an updated version of this video for the definitive version. Please make it happen😃

  • @lahire2960
    @lahire2960 5 ปีที่แล้ว +890

    *THEM DEVS CAN'T MAKE AN AI SMARTER THAN LA HIRE*

    • @AmazingDuckmeister
      @AmazingDuckmeister 5 ปีที่แล้ว +134

      The blood on La Hire sword is almost dry!

    • @PivotToThePast
      @PivotToThePast 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      😂 Haha

    • @jamesspargo9399
      @jamesspargo9399 5 ปีที่แล้ว +62

      La Hire weeshes to keeel somesing

    • @Skelath
      @Skelath 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      But they did make a "high definition" AI, lol.

    • @udechile2497
      @udechile2497 5 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      You created that account just to say that

  • @T-West
    @T-West 5 ปีที่แล้ว +48

    Fun fact about Promi: He may be the only human in existence ever to have read the rule book for the Age of Mythology board game. Unfortunately we got "board" and stopped playing by the time he finished understanding it...

  • @josefikrakowski
    @josefikrakowski 5 ปีที่แล้ว +449

    all i wanted to know is why the AI has an obsession with hoarding its army around a building and doing nothing the entire match XD

    • @TheGeoCheese
      @TheGeoCheese 5 ปีที่แล้ว +66

      meme machine standard difficulty. The AI is hell aggressive on anything higher than standard.

    • @Goabnb94
      @Goabnb94 5 ปีที่แล้ว +98

      I captured a screenshot once of an AI ally, whos army was surrounding its lumbercamp and the lumberjacks couldn't get to it so they just stood around doing nothing. Meanwhile I was being attacked, asking for help, and this guy was asking for resources with his army doing nothing but blocking his own resources.

    • @Unwanted.A7X
      @Unwanted.A7X 5 ปีที่แล้ว +30

      @@Tariousgaming even on hardest keep doing that shit, you are getting destroyed by the enemy and your allie ai doesnt come to help you after 2 hrs of match

    • @lyserg173
      @lyserg173 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@Tariousgaming it happens in Hard

    • @Handconnonierr
      @Handconnonierr 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@Goabnb94 The king probably was watching for his X-mass tree and there was his bodyguards around to secure him while he found his tree. And villagers was not allowed to work, because they might chop and make tree usable (99/100 if you understand what I mean :D), yeah and while king on his duties and there is no income, that's why allies is needed for.
      ps. damn that would be nice view.

  • @0sba
    @0sba 5 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    When I was 8 I learned building a wall around my settlement (especially on forest maps) with an opening and towers behind the walls made the AI attack from that gap 100% of the time.

  • @obesechicken13
    @obesechicken13 5 ปีที่แล้ว +432

    I like the AI but wish it didn't have bullshit archer/anti mangonel micro. No human can individually micro 40 archers and it causes players to shy away from mangonels or infantry.

    • @LeMicronaut
      @LeMicronaut 5 ปีที่แล้ว +78

      I like the micro, but the single player campaigns can be really frustrating cause of this, especially Joan of Arc's against English Longbow spam. You have to micro each mangonel to attack ground in a matrix. It would be nice if there was target scatter or area bombard like Company of Heroes cause all projectiles landing in the same spot is usually pointless against a moving target.

    • @kherossilverlight8400
      @kherossilverlight8400 5 ปีที่แล้ว +62

      I compensate it with the power of Pause and give several orders at the same time. It doesn't work when using infantry, but at least you can keep your economy going while your army is getting ravaged ;)

    • @VarenvelDarakus
      @VarenvelDarakus 5 ปีที่แล้ว +28

      You obviously don't watch t90 streams of best players

    • @Zakuzelo
      @Zakuzelo 5 ปีที่แล้ว +50

      That's probably my biggest complaint about AoE2, from release to this day. Even now I've got a stigma against mangonels and ESPECIALLY bombard cannons from my years of fighting the AI.

    • @galliman123
      @galliman123 5 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      This is AOE2HD issue not an original AOE2 AI one, the original AI wad more broken and useless but at least didn't do god like micro

  • @lmln1532
    @lmln1532 5 ปีที่แล้ว +89

    This exclusive footage will show you what the ai says to its villagers:
    WOOD PLEASE FOOD PLEASE GOLD PLEASE WOLOLO WOLOLO

  • @joshuaread9366
    @joshuaread9366 5 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    @spirit of the law
    This is by and far the most interesting video you have posted! And I’m not just throwing out that term lightly. I really mean that! I think it’s safe to say we ALL have played somewhere between 50 and 50,000 hours against the AI and ALL wonder how he thinks and works. This video had us go from a view through a keyhole to a view through a big window. Thanks a lot!

  • @buttnuttz6119
    @buttnuttz6119 5 ปีที่แล้ว +247

    I wish you had asked why the AI hates walls so much?

    • @Heavysweating
      @Heavysweating 5 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      I don't think he meant that with the comment, but the fact that the AI deletes it's own walls usually at some point in imp.

    • @buttnuttz6119
      @buttnuttz6119 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Javier Mora the original AI is able to build walls

    • @torinjones3221
      @torinjones3221 5 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      Yeah the original AI used to love walls

    • @Klosterhasi
      @Klosterhasi 5 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      walls in general are only an early-warning thing because of mangonels, rams and petards. They dont protect you from shit. The AI sees everything at once, so it doesnt need a warning systems like that, as it knows when its being attacked.

    • @SC0RPY0N
      @SC0RPY0N 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I think they remove walls in HD AI, because they was unable to solve that bug with blocked troops when you can beat 1 vs 7 Hardest AI. (especially on closed maps).

  • @Quierounnombre
    @Quierounnombre 5 ปีที่แล้ว +107

    I have a question, whyy your alie IA is more stupid than your enemy IA?

  • @mod4rchive
    @mod4rchive 5 ปีที่แล้ว +151

    this is miles better quality content, you have improved a lot. i'd never guessed you would find the actual dev... this is pornography

    • @i.e.o.5840
      @i.e.o.5840 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      10/10 better than PornHub

    • @jacques4703
      @jacques4703 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      But pornography is bad for you and this video is educative

    • @ManthanPandYEAH
      @ManthanPandYEAH 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @joaquin Sotl interviewed him again for de check that out

  • @inkadinka9517
    @inkadinka9517 5 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    How you consistently produce this volume of great content limited to a single game never ceases to amaze me.

  • @kentsang7410
    @kentsang7410 5 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    What I hate about the AI is that they never be useful when they are the ally in the campaign. They cannot even protect themselves and ask you for resource

    • @galliman123
      @galliman123 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      HD AI breaks the campaigns and was never designed for it, original AI makes campaigns better

  • @su0tin731
    @su0tin731 5 ปีที่แล้ว +74

    Whenever I have an ally AI, it always works like that:
    IF (No market is built)
    THEN Build a market
    IF (There's space around the market)
    THEN Build anything around the market.
    THEN Clutter armies around the market.
    Yay for trading with the AI!.
    Why does the AI build in such a messy way? It's always a clutter of buildings with small spaces between them like it wants to build a maze.

    • @Goabnb94
      @Goabnb94 5 ปีที่แล้ว +47

      No, no, no. Its:
      IF (human ally)
      THEN (don't build a market for 30 minutes)
      IF (don't have market)
      THEN (pester human for resources)
      IF (human ally being attacked)
      THEN (don't help or send resources)
      IF (human enemy)
      THEN (rush market to begin trading)

    • @su0tin731
      @su0tin731 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@Goabnb94 hahaha, Yeah, they also do that! :D

    • @william.mariner4230
      @william.mariner4230 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      The video states that it the AI cannot choose where to build their buildings, to the tile, but can only give a set of rough instructions as it where it can't build.
      Don't place mill within 8 tiles of another mill.
      Place mining camp within 3 tile radius of gold.
      Only build dock if water area is bigger than Y tiles.

    • @tomscorpion6288
      @tomscorpion6288 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I am no scripter but it doesn't sound too complicated to issue an instruction like:
      Don't build any building within 6 tiles around your market.
      Don't send units within 6 tiles around your market unless attacked.
      It wouldn't solve cluttered trade routes between two AI's but it would definitely help a lot.
      Btw, AI that is able to select individual units to attack individual targets would be STRONG. I would love to see that.

    • @pierre-mariecaulliez6285
      @pierre-mariecaulliez6285 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@tomscorpion6288
      Good thing you mentionned you are no scripter, because you input THAT code into your AI...
      ... And next thing you know, it tries to build dock 3 tiles from shores...

  • @Chenla
    @Chenla 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Promi and SotL, such a good combo to explain stuff.
    What I like about the Custom Campaigns is how neat and good ideas are people coming for their AIs.
    Some are even specifically set to counter you and use counter attacks, which I am always intrigued to see.

  • @hukuando
    @hukuando 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Best video so far! Really insightful into the back-end process of the game, on an extremely important aspect no less!

  • @Nadie-mb4vw
    @Nadie-mb4vw 5 ปีที่แล้ว +196

    Hey Spirit, about the AI theme, do you have any experience with the Barbarian AI? Is a well know new AI coded by The Max, a famous Finnish player, and in the hardest level is comparable to a 1700-1800 Voobly rated player. The Viper took 3 tries to win a 2v1 in that setting.

    • @kalamsv3294
      @kalamsv3294 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Absolutely Barbaric!

    • @lautarop4995
      @lautarop4995 5 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      And 5 of this AI gave a nice battle to TheViper+Daut(Rip in KotD2)+Tatoh

    • @OkabexKurisu
      @OkabexKurisu 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      i looked exactly for this? i mean how can you talk about aoe2 ai without even mentioning barbarian if u dont get your boars it will lame you^^

    • @KaoticPhoenix
      @KaoticPhoenix 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      It's too bad it never got properly ported to HD or DE

  • @grevehans
    @grevehans 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    One of your best videos in my opinion, Spirit. Informative, concise but not rushed, and the enthusiasm from both of you shines through. This is why I'm subscribed. Thank you.

  • @motorhead2063
    @motorhead2063 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The Hardest AI's monk rush with its micro haunts me to this day.
    Each of them will target an individual unit thus not only ruining my raid but also making me retreat to my base with the haunted tension that I'll be seeing my Mangudais again soon...

  • @endyage
    @endyage 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Damn, Spirit, you are the man! To find a dev and come up with so many right questions is quite a task and you performed beautifully!

  • @MiniCraftWolskys
    @MiniCraftWolskys 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Oh god the script for the IA is available online ? I didn't knew that ! Thanks you Spirit and Promi !!!!

  • @Chris-jl6vp
    @Chris-jl6vp 5 ปีที่แล้ว +41

    Here's my question.
    When the hell are they gonna make AIs build walls again.

    • @danielrobertson2154
      @danielrobertson2154 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      The new DE ai builds walls out of monasteries in all my games lmao

    • @furkanaydin8046
      @furkanaydin8046 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@danielrobertson2154 Just finished a game Aztects vs Inka and the AI build walls out of castles lmao

    • @royalhero4608
      @royalhero4608 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I play on Hard and they make walls of castles but only on the side facing you, so you can always just flank them and get into the heart of their base lol

  • @hansoskar1911
    @hansoskar1911 5 ปีที่แล้ว +37

    Interesting episode. Can you do another one with TheMax? He is a top aoe player and created the barbarian AI the strongest AI available. It would be interesting to see how he made his AI so strong.

    • @satyakisil4289
      @satyakisil4289 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No Barbarian on Steam, so chances of doing that would be very slim.
      Also, sotl has a weird habit of avoiding the pro scene wherever possible. The only reason he brought TaToH was because he was popular on HD.

  • @thunktankpodcast4645
    @thunktankpodcast4645 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great interview! Would love to see more!

  • @alexgalleguillos4467
    @alexgalleguillos4467 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Quality content as always! Thx so much Spirit ❤️! Much love from Chile

  • @lethn2929
    @lethn2929 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Easily one of the most interesting and also informative videos I've found the fact that you posted up pseudo code for me to look at rather than pointlessly talk about the theory like so many other videos was especially helpful, I had no idea for example the AOE2 AI actually compared distances when placing buildings. In hindsight it's obvious but it just shows you how many factors you need to take into account when developing AI generally to make it convincing.

  • @newdarkages3191
    @newdarkages3191 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    For people who don't know, if you look at the code (click the git hub link in the description) it tells you all the hidden in game commands you can ask/tell the AI:
    "100 - Forbids the AI to resign."
    "231-238 - Chat 230+[enemy player number] to make the AI target this enemy for 10 minutes."
    "250 - Chats information about the current strategy."

  • @Morgan_Black
    @Morgan_Black 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    That interview is actually...
    Cool. Just as always. Thanks to both!

  • @vmp2707
    @vmp2707 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Please make more of these technical videos. They are awesome.

  • @sygmaone
    @sygmaone 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great idea thanks for making this SotL! More like this please!!!

  • @jackschmidt141
    @jackschmidt141 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love your analysis and voice so much. You are great 😁

  • @rettej6733
    @rettej6733 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have been watching you videos for a year and a half love your videos

  • @rafiqrendika7264
    @rafiqrendika7264 5 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    IF
    I am about to get wrek
    THEN
    Deploy the cars

  • @LetsbeHonestOfficial
    @LetsbeHonestOfficial 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    So cool that you got in contact with one of the actual creators. I've come to believe that there are no AOE2 without a Spirit of the law

  • @tom1600x1050
    @tom1600x1050 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video by the way. I enjoy your clear explanations. When I play against the ResonanceBot AI, on slow mode, using the F3 'pause' button regularly (I am a new player who can't multitask very well), I find that the AI doesn't fight against my strategy -- which is what strategy is all about -- instead the AI is rules-focused with, as you point out, it's 'if-then' logic using conditions and such. So it is only a matter of time until a human player can learn how the AI 'thinks' and beat it. What would be REALLY COOL is if an AI can be developed which really 'thinks', that is, it learns from its mistakes, and it guesses about what will happen in the future (will my town center be attacked? will villagers be raided? with what? when? etc) and then actively take steps to guard against it. My sense is that, in time, this will happen, and yes, it will only be a matter of time until a thinking and advanced AI can beat any possible human or combination of humans.

  • @vyxsinn1864
    @vyxsinn1864 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is a great video. So so interesting and questions I haven’t even considered

  • @mrwasgehtsiedasan3278
    @mrwasgehtsiedasan3278 5 ปีที่แล้ว +69

    Such an interesting topic, love it! And a german developer, as I hear (greetings from Germany) :D

    • @mrwasgehtsiedasan3278
      @mrwasgehtsiedasan3278 5 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      @GloriousTapeworm he has the typical german accent, nothing arabic here, i think i dont get your comment XD

    • @ObviusRetard
      @ObviusRetard 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@mrwasgehtsiedasan3278 it's a meme with non Germans that German sounds similar to Arabic (Sharp consonants and such)

    • @ruppaikuschluck6543
      @ruppaikuschluck6543 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I love his hard german accent, so I know I'm not the only one who butchers the english language :D

    • @lizardemperorkorbac4281
      @lizardemperorkorbac4281 5 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      @@ObviusRetard I thought it was a joke about how Germany is flooded with Muslims.

    • @SoyKhalid
      @SoyKhalid 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@lizardemperorkorbac4281 In any case, most Muslims are not speakers of Arabic.

  • @SpoOkyMagician
    @SpoOkyMagician 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great video SotL. Very informative.

  • @MoreNimrod
    @MoreNimrod 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm amazed at how hard work went into a game this old, it seems like a true labor of love. My dad and his friends would probably be amazed that the game they used to play on LAN parties is still going!

  • @Raorl173
    @Raorl173 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    This video has everything I like!! AI and AoE please do a follow up if there’s more info out there about this topic

  • @tarpdurr6662
    @tarpdurr6662 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is a fucking brilliant interview. Great work all around

  • @Jewus19
    @Jewus19 5 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    it's a good ai. But it simply cannot deal with half of the maps in the mappool at all. especially water maps, Islands, TeamIslands, start on a small island, expand to the bigger one. It. Just. Dies.

    • @jordanthejq12
      @jordanthejq12 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      That's running up against the limits of the AI engine itself. Even Barbarian struggles on Islands.

    • @satyakisil4289
      @satyakisil4289 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      It's not gonna put Villagers in Transports. That's the only handicap. In fact,no AI can be scripted to do that. The game engine prohibits it.

    • @GummieI
      @GummieI 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      And well Promi did acknowledge that it could have trouble with water maps in this very video

    • @Goabnb94
      @Goabnb94 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Its funny, because a water map, like Costal or Mediterranean, it doesn't need a navy but will invest heavily in it. But Islands, it rarely ventures from its island, other than with small, single transport ship pokes.

    • @Krbyfan1
      @Krbyfan1 5 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@satyakisil4289 I always wondered why the AI never transported Villagers. I had no idea that it was a limitation of the engine.
      You'd figure after 20 years they would have found a way to code it in 11

  • @jayrosado5894
    @jayrosado5894 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wonderful topic with great questions, it gets me interested in building my own ai one day.

  • @Peter-ie6po
    @Peter-ie6po 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Really interesting and next level to invite developer of the game

  • @milkteaalliance1748
    @milkteaalliance1748 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very insightful video thanks!

  • @TomTom-ol7mz
    @TomTom-ol7mz 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This was really interesting! Thank you. :)

  • @mrvex6695
    @mrvex6695 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    It has quite amazing AI for its kind of game. RTS in general have dumb AI because its just complex... and AOE is even harder to make an AI for. By giving the AI some tricks like the good micro it already puts it above its competitors.
    Speaking of unique AI's...
    Company of Heroes 2 AI is also somewhat unique in its genre as it has full functionality that it actually takes humans as possible teammates and works around them. In most other RTS games the AI will simply ignore you when its teamed up with you as if you werent there. In COH 2 on other hand....
    For those unfamiliar with Company of Heroes, its a RTS serie set in WW2, more tactical and about map control than something like a Command and Conquer.
    - Relocates its troops when its needed, it wont try to go the same path as your troops unless its through a choke point. So you go to the left, AI to the right.
    - Amasses troops when it detects that you are trying to make a breakthrough through defence. In maps where there are some choke points death traps. The AI will station its troops outside around your own troops and they are idle till you commence an attack. Then they will join in.
    - It actively repairs your structures and tanks and it actually expects you to repair theirs too. If a tank is beated to shit it will start reversing towards your closest repair capable units and it will stop once you start repairing it. This thing is so human and so smart for a computer and i dont think such thing is present in any other RTS game. Unlike other games where AI will try to rush the tank to its death or across the whole map. If your tank is getting beaten to shit it will start repairing it even in middle of combat.
    - On normal and easy, AI actually has map vision like the player, not like in other games where it sees everything. This means if your units spot enemy blobs it will start shelling them with its artillery. So if you would have an invisible spotter (lets say a sniper with restricted fire) and simply sneak in to the enemy fortress, watch how the howitzers will pummel the area till there is nothing left.
    - AI builds chokepoints or reinforces yours with things like machinegun nests.
    - AI utilizes what you make, if you make an reinforcement outpost, the AI will retreat their infantry to them to reinforce to full number (instead of like retreating to their base). If its a hospital, its the same. It will make a full use of it. If it has a halftrack it will move it to your wounded troops so YOU can reinforce and it will seek YOUR halftracks with its infantry so they can reinforce to full strength.
    Too bad that although these behaviours are really amazing, the normal AI (the last AI that doesnt cheat) is weak against a human...

  • @elliejohnson2786
    @elliejohnson2786 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very interesting video, so glad you made it!

  • @blacktimhoward4322
    @blacktimhoward4322 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Someone in the Total War franchise needs to hire this guy they've never had an AI that could think its way out of a paper bag

  • @nathangamble125
    @nathangamble125 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is really interesting. I've created a (very basic) Starcraft AI, and it's interesting seeing how the approach compares between different games.
    A lot of if-then statements seems to be something in common.

  • @davidbeck79
    @davidbeck79 5 ปีที่แล้ว +40

    pls make a video about barbarian AI

    • @marcuspontius3967
      @marcuspontius3967 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Not possible, don't think there has been a video with SotL playing AoE2 with UP :p

  • @Nico-kd7uz
    @Nico-kd7uz 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Really nice interview and video

  • @ngastakvakis4425
    @ngastakvakis4425 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent questions!

  • @pavXX
    @pavXX 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Cool video! Interesting to see how the AI is programmed.

  • @Giesela0815
    @Giesela0815 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you both so much!

  • @mafiousbj
    @mafiousbj 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have a newfound respect for the original AOE2 team back then, and the Forgotten Team for the heavy scripting done with such simple conditions such as only using "ifs", and people like TheMax who is not only a top player but also has time to program such a competent AI like Barbarian by himself. Thanks SOTL!

  • @Vyas9296
    @Vyas9296 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Spirit, I would love to see you do a video on monk conversion times. The pros use monks a lot to great effect in early castle age, so it would be great to see some numbers on them!

  • @Supervideo1491
    @Supervideo1491 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic video. You should interview the creator of Barbarian AI next 😊

  • @user-co8vc5nd7l
    @user-co8vc5nd7l 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Man can we get an updated video for DE this is so interesting. I love it

  • @fritzfreak
    @fritzfreak 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    i love your vids man keep it up !

  • @raspootin7555
    @raspootin7555 5 ปีที่แล้ว +70

    Can you do a video about tree hp?

    • @elliejohnson2786
      @elliejohnson2786 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Actually yes please

    • @ThZuao
      @ThZuao 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      It will be about 3 minutes long. 2:30 of which are spent on the intro and SotL talking about his social medias and to like, share and subscribe.

    • @raspootin7555
      @raspootin7555 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Thauã Aguirre how would it be 3 mins. He could test if lumbercamp upgrades effect how fast the tree is cut down. He could go into death about siege that cuts trees. He could talk about the expansions trees and there weird hp.

    • @HaBBiSiFy
      @HaBBiSiFy 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Don't forget Sappers tech that makes vills one-shot trees

    • @hjelsethak
      @hjelsethak 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@HaBBiSiFy Wait, what? Is this really true??

  • @PrimeGamator
    @PrimeGamator 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I thought you were going to talk about both AIs (old and new), still really liked the video.
    I've started playing AoE:TC again and now that i can observe things more clearly than when i was younger it's impressive how cheaty the AI is in that game and the weird decisions that it makes:
    -It will most of the times target the player with the highest score, so if you let your score be low enough you can basically just stall until they run out of resources while attacking eachother
    -When it decides to attack you it targets your trebuchets or cannons as the highest priority, it knows where they are even if it has no line of sight, so you can lure the armies to a location you desire just by placing a trebuchet there
    -It knows where every single resource is, no matter if it has never explored that area
    -It knows where your villagers are, if you run out of resources in your base and have to send villagers far away to gather resources they will always get attacked at some point or another
    -It is so reactive to damage that even has problems with things attacking it through walls, sometimes they don't register that they have to attack the wall blocking it from the enemy (and they never retreat, except with villagers). One time i walled a tower next to a relic i palisaded and all the melee military that it send that way just got stuck in the walls trying to attack the tower while the tower kept shooting them and it would always send monks to try to get the relic and wouldn't retreat when it couldn't reach it and the tower was attacking them.
    -I know i should have said this sooner but yeah...it knows where everything is basically
    -At one point of a game that has lasted too long almost all villagers stop working even if they have wood and food still available and do not continue attacking or they do it at way bigger intervals of time
    -The build spacing is so badly made that they build all their buildings ,apart from houses and farms, in random places that are incredibly away from their base (this was noticeable even as a kid)
    -No matter if the enemy that it intends to attack needs to be reached by going through enemy territory, it will do it and lose all army if necessary....or just have it stuck forever because it is being blocked from all sides by other enemy's walls
    And the list goes on and on

  • @shyarcher1111
    @shyarcher1111 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    best video you did so far

  • @KamisKapi
    @KamisKapi 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    2:46 the guitar intro automatically plays in my head

  • @arcticbeak
    @arcticbeak 5 ปีที่แล้ว +33

    18:38 There already is an AI for DOTA 2 that consistenly beats any pro player 1v1 midlane and that players today use to train. It still needs improvement because DOTA is not played 1v1 and the AI only knows one or a few champions in a mirror matchup, but it's still impressive. If today there were as much interest in AoE2 as it is in DOTA 2 there would totally be an AI beating top human players consistenly in AOE2 at some point.

    • @reisanibal1
      @reisanibal1 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      For that to happen, AI mechanics should be updated. It will never happen with "if then" statements. Deep learning should be applied here.

    • @ubelmensch
      @ubelmensch 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      TheViper had problems with Barbarian AI but in 1v2 2v4 and 3v5

    • @GummieI
      @GummieI 5 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      Also pretty sure it is vastly more complicated to make a RTS AI than an DOTA AI, there are so many more things to consider in an RTS

    • @advaithrajagopal2506
      @advaithrajagopal2506 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Champions instead of heroes triggers me. Agree with you though

    • @nathangamble125
      @nathangamble125 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That's fairly old news.
      A few months ago the same AI easily won 5v5s against progamers.

  • @pedropasquini4311
    @pedropasquini4311 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Now I want a video of spirit vrs the barbarian

  • @jose2226
    @jose2226 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I haven't played AoE in 9 years, but I love your videos!

    • @BigBossXCV
      @BigBossXCV 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm afraid it's been 9 Years
      TRY NOT TO PANIC

  • @Spectre5549
    @Spectre5549 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    this is really fascinating!

  • @Apoc428
    @Apoc428 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    very interesting video, especially since it highlights the changes in ai development. Though i get that AOE2 is your specialty i would have been interested in a little bit more of a zoomed out view as well, so if you could get promi to do a follow up that would be very interesting. I mention this specifically because he refers to the ai from shooter games, which have evolved from all matters of clunkiness, to smart, but non-existant. Plus after your question about developing ai that could beat any human player he mentions machine learning which is what google and Blizzard are using with their ai that is learning starcraft 2. Using the proper channels i don't see why the same could not be developed in any other RTS.
    I would also really like to know if the standard AOE2 ai differs from the ai's of aoe1 and 3 in a fundamental way, or not.

  • @000oMaat
    @000oMaat 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Super Video! Thx

  • @vegannegan9652
    @vegannegan9652 5 ปีที่แล้ว +41

    When will patch 5.9 released? Make the karambit great again.

    • @supremememelord8326
      @supremememelord8326 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      #MAGA (make arambai great again)

    • @jantube358
      @jantube358 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Better fix match making, elo, desyncs, ...

  • @Lukas94337
    @Lukas94337 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    What the AI still never does is:
    -Transporting villagers by transport ships (which makes it impossible to play migration maps against AI).
    -builds fish traps nor use existing ones like in scenario editor or campaign.
    Builds palisade walls or palisade gates.
    Builds outpost.
    Playing tower rush.
    Just what i remember atm.

    • @xfi6658
      @xfi6658 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah, i would aoe devs make a special ai for migration maps

    • @xfi6658
      @xfi6658 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      And outpost,but walls cant

  • @ArchCone
    @ArchCone 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I loved this always amazing to learn about AI.

  • @tkzsfen
    @tkzsfen 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    SO COOL!!! i've never seen a video with the one who developed the game. Awesome! btw it is true - the jump to moderate is huge! i can barely keep up with the AI. i am casual player and never engage in multiplayer fights. so, the AI games are my jam. i am deeply demoralized how they manage to destroy me with such ease :D

  • @samueltunnicliffe7012
    @samueltunnicliffe7012 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This guy says that the AI doesn't one what units you produce, without scouting them... but I swear on DE it does know. It counters what I build without even knowing or seeing lol

    • @subhadeepmandal1465
      @subhadeepmandal1465 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yah.. that's a big cheating. To know the composition & number of opponent's army or even entire population.

  • @eulefranz944
    @eulefranz944 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Omg !!
    I think other games need an analysis of the AI in a similar way

  • @TheBedroomRocker1
    @TheBedroomRocker1 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome video! Time for an update for the definitive edition AI. Where do you get your sound track? I love that funky thing!

  • @kazmark_gl8652
    @kazmark_gl8652 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    This seems to be an AoE channel, but I would really like to see a video like this dissecting the AI behaviors in Command and Conquer 3, I've noticed a few strange behaviors from the Brutal AI but I don't have the know-how to dig around in its brain myself.

  • @SaiphxXx
    @SaiphxXx 5 ปีที่แล้ว +205

    You make it sound like HD has a better AI than the original but this is somewhat misleading, and hides a very important part of AoE2 history.
    Promi AI existed years before HD came out. The reason why it is playing so well compared to the original AI is because:
    1) original AoE2 devs didn't have all the knowledge about the game that we have now: boar luring, build orders, tournament settings etc.
    2) this AI, and many others, were made and improved during years by the community. Modders, Userpatch devs and volunteers who did all the work for free.
    I wanted to bring that out, because it would be quite ungrateful that years of work from dedicated AI modders get absolutely no mention when they are the ones who made this possible. Just as for the Forgotten content, the community did the work, not HD devs. And they did it for free, years before HD was a thing.
    (To be clear, I know you didn't do it intentionally and most viewers probably don't care about that anyway, but it's still nice to know the full story !)
    Take a look at aok.heavengames.com/blacksmith/lister.php?category=ai
    and look at the number of modded AIs available for the disk version as well as their date, it is quite impressive. Since 1999, there have been 2 new AIs per month and 80% of them were made before HD, including Promi and Archon's ones but also some famous ons like Barbarian, which completely crushes HD AI.

    • @galliman123
      @galliman123 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Nothing can beat the original AI for the campaigns though, the HD AI really breaks the feeling

    • @SaiphxXx
      @SaiphxXx 5 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      ​@@galliman123 Most of the stuff I've read about HD leads me to believe they probably did not even test the campaigns when releasing the game. Pretty much everything they did was putting modded content together and publishing it without really professionalizing it (the Forgotten content look quite amateur if you compare to the original game)
      Original AoC devs did a great job with the AI back in the days. At this time nobody used internet to improve their play, hardware would not allow for more than 75 population and I think it was a challenging AI in these conditions. And even though no one could know what this game would become 20 years later, they also released a full AI scripting framework and documentation with the game, so that players could keep improving it.

    • @T-West
      @T-West 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@SaiphxXx I don't know about the Forgotten Empires or African Kingdoms campaigns, but there was a beta period for the Rise of the Rajas campaigns where those ones were tested (I was in this beta). There unfortunately have been changes introduced since that break some aspects of the campaigns, and I have no idea if there even could be a QA process for updates now that Skybox is no longer working on the game 11.

    • @pete26196
      @pete26196 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Can confirm T-West

    • @raffaelvogel9118
      @raffaelvogel9118 5 ปีที่แล้ว

  • @PressA2Die
    @PressA2Die 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Flipin' heck, this is phenomenal

  • @willdbeast1523
    @willdbeast1523 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I actually had a go at making an ai (with prior no experience) over christmas
    I'm both pleased and embarrassed that it plays better than I do. It was fun to do and didn't take all that long to get started so I'd recommend it!

    • @willdbeast1523
      @willdbeast1523 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@Kvothe Windrunner going through the game files is hardly a deal-breaker, most of the files are pretty helpfully named, and there are some good guides out there for beginners and most of the lines are just the same thing copy/pasted but with a unit id or a number changed.
      I should say my ai only does 1v1 arabia (or similar land maps) as knight civs but for a first attempt I am happy with it.
      Hopefully yt doesn't mind links; here it is if you want to see:
      pastebin.com/qA0Z13aC
      p.s. when I say it didn't take too long, it was a few nights of doing it but not as long as I expected it to be considering I've not coded anything for 4 years and am p bad at aoe

  • @caymangag
    @caymangag 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome video

  • @rupertgiles2636
    @rupertgiles2636 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wish you made videos for Age of Empires III as well. I really could use some of your maths there.

  • @shdba
    @shdba 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    This may be off topic but oh well. I started playing this game again after i discovered you on youtube and i couldnt believe what this game has become and how big of a fan base it has got over the years. People are playing this game nowadays in ways I could not imagine back when I played it as a kid. It's a timeless game, the graphics as well and I want to like it but for me the biggest killer of this game is that you're not really enjoying it or at least thats the way I see it. We're all rushing to do this do that sometimes feudal or castle flies right beside you and you haven't even engaged with your units. I would have loved this game if it was a bit slower, one of the things I would have loved is to play in one age only like a game option.
    I think all this math and how to and why are nice and fun to know it's just, it's killing all the magic a game should have It's like missing the point.

  • @ShintyShinto
    @ShintyShinto 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wish there were a few extra difficulty settings between the existing ones, so that the increase in difficulty isn't as dramatic as it is now.

  • @FanaticProductions
    @FanaticProductions 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very interessting video!

  • @salildeshpande7
    @salildeshpande7 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    their voices.. so soothing

  • @irtijaadib42069
    @irtijaadib42069 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    As a CSE student I am drooling over this

  • @RomaInvictusSPQR
    @RomaInvictusSPQR 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    great job well done

  • @Luredreier
    @Luredreier 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!
    This really was a topic I'm very interested in.
    I might end up buying the game again because of this video.
    Is there a AI tournament held by anyone?

  • @noahliasam7407
    @noahliasam7407 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    That's why I often like to see an Ai only battle and to rewatch my own against AI as well. I really have learned to make more troops early in the game when you go against moderate or above. Or sometimes you go lucky to not get attacked 😅

  • @Demovitron
    @Demovitron 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very interesting video and interview. Thanks. Got any content about why AI in recent games seems less sophisticated, as many years ago?

  • @RehaFEkici
    @RehaFEkici 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Clearly# the best quality video from u so for , man , congz , and also we want from u to analyse the BARBARİAN AI!!

  • @CoqPwner
    @CoqPwner 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I find the AI of AoE2 HD the best I've ever seen in any Strategy games, even including 4x's and the like.
    Anyone disagrees? (Genuinely curious)
    Super interesting video btw, great interview!

  • @benperegrin745
    @benperegrin745 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    plz do another live com they are my favorite from you

  • @Toni_N
    @Toni_N 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Perfect Video *-*

  • @justinmcleod141
    @justinmcleod141 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The best thing to do against AI is to wall. They rarely make trebuchets, and I've never seen them use a siege tower. Mangonels don't last long enough if you target them with towers.
    Their best move is to rush with rams, but they're easy enough to deal with too.
    I've beaten moderate with mainly towers and walls before.