Yeah I’m tipping Ballarat would not be up for merging with Bendigo. Much like how North Ballarat prospered in the VFL for a while, as an VFL/AFL weakling they’d probably just go back to the local league.
I just realised that Bendigo-Ballarat would probably have a super team from 2016-2021. All these players played for Bgo irl, Dustin Martin, All 3 Selwoods, Jake Stringer, Buddy Franklin (played in a local side), Clayton Oliver. That line up looks pretty insane, plus having the Ballarat region too, yikes
this was a fun video, I still think there would be 2 showdowns with red legs probably angry at port for leaving SANFL and Collingwood for the magpies name. would be very entertaining.
The more rivalries, the better! 3 teams in Canberra/NSW area provides for rivalry, while I think Bendigo/Ballarat v Geelong will be like a Showdown in itself.
Even if they weren't forced to, surely Collingwood or Port change their nickname at some point for the sake of branding or to avoid confusion. Can still imagine them both refusing to do so in which case they'd probably end up with colloquial nicknames to distinguish them
@MartinInBC decent name suggestion! Would probably step on ADF toes though, and potentially be awkward around ANZAC Day. Better than something like the Miners, though - imagine BT starts talking about how much he loves the Miners and all of a sudden a paddywagon appears!
Those Barrett articles trigger me so much haha Yeah apologies about destroying the fabric of your club multiple times (especially if you're a Richmond fan) but the North Coast story arc was certainly the biggest roller coaster!
Great video, would find it really interesting to see a “Super league split” for the AFL on the mid to late 90s. Who would end up where and end up folding on the re-amalgamation of the leagues
Well that nearly happened in 1984!!! John Elliott of Carlton made a proposal to separate from VFL governance, which may just have been a ploy to get the VFL to create the Commission, but he had the support of a large number of clubs! For more detail, check out my VFL History series!
Bendigo Dragons also matches one of the oldest Bendigo Football sides called the Sandhurst Dragons. Because Sandhurst colours are the same as the older Fitzroy (Maroon and Blue) jumper, I can see them having a Golden Maroon colors to put them contrast with other VFL teams at the time. Ballarat did get their own VFL/VFA side called the North Ballarat Roosters during the mid to late 90s but much like the Bendigo Diggers in the VFL/VFA, they didn't last that long.
I think this version of Bendigo would be a mix of a league composite team or merger between Sandhurst and one or two other teams Maroon and gold would be interesting, might clash with Hawthorn though?
If Ablett Junior never went to the Gold Coast because of no Gold Coast Suns in 2011, then Geelong would have most likely won the 2013 and 2014 Premierships instead of Hawthorn. Plus Ablett Junior wouldn't have hurt his shoulder in 2014 if he was still playing with the Cats, so he would have been a 3-time Brownlow Medal Winner.
Was looking at the footy guernsey template and couldn't quite put my finger on why it was so familiar until I remembered that I'd made it years ago now. Awesome to people using it!
@@thegaz-man The timeline does my team no favours, but it diversifies the V-AFL which is what's truly needed. 10 Victorian teams and only one of them a quasi-regional team (Geelong is more sattelite city than it's own thing now) means it's still only a VFL or even more accurately Melbourne Suburban Football League with pretensions. The AFL needed to get serious and strip licences, forcibly relocate or relegate teams to fix this. A true National team would need a Canberra team, a Tassie team, and an extra team each from SA and WA, so the bigger "footy" states don't feel like it's just a VFL+. An NT team would be nice, but I can't see how it's financially viable, but for now let's include it anyway. An NZ team would also be nice, and it's something the NRL managed to pull off first. That's 24 teams and no US team yet. But really you can't pull of a national comp with more than 20 teams or you're stuck with 2 x 12 team conferences and that becomes more like a Victoria getting a straight shot into the finals. And you can't break up any of the vic power clubs so they only play each other if they both make the finals from 2 different conferences either, because revenue matters to professional sports. So that needs Victoria coming down to 6 teams to accomodate all of these in, and that STILL means Victoria has at least twice as many teams as any other state. How do you get Victoria down to 6 teams? You can't. The only sensible option is moving North to Canberra (as the Tassie team is now a done deal, so no Blundstone for you North), and Western Bulldogs to NT, and the Saints to NZ, but that leaves you 19, and you can have your US team, or a PNG /Tiwi team to make 20.
@@AndyViant So you openly admit getting it down to 6 Vic teams makes bugger all difference and would be meaningless, but still champion the idea of sending 2 teams to areas you earlier admitted aren't viable, thus destroying them?? some of you interstate supporters deadset need therapy
This is so cursed. So many crazy mergers. An LA team would probably never work in an Australian League. An LA Aussie Rules team could only compete in an American professional AFL league. Something I hope becomes a reality one day. The only way a team like Hawthorn would play Los Angeles would be in a Champions League style or International Friendly match
Absolutely cursed haha Yeah not sure how the LA logistics would work as West Coast were expected to pay for Vic teams to fly over to WA Guessing that ESPN money would help fund that, especially if the game got a foothold and managed to grow
I wouldn't put it past folks in both Aus and the US trying to make it work. We shouldn't forget that the NFL is forever trying to put a team in London. That same delusion pervades all our other sports leagues, and while I haven't followed the AFL as long as American leagues, from what I've seen the league has its own fair share of that too.
That was awesome. My Collingwood wasn't touched (apart from stolen 2010) and most importantly the new team plays half there (home) games 2 hours down the road in Wellington so I get to watch more live footy HURRAY!
Yeah, Collingwood were certainly too big to take down in the Merger Age. Their 2010-11 sides were amazing but a combined Saints/Blues entity probably only just rolls them for mine. I think footy in NZ is the next big frontier - it's a market as big as WA and SA combined, and the NRL shows that an NZ team can work logistics-wise in an Aus league. Would love to see the silver fern on an AFL jersey someday.
This is a phenomenonal video and I'm so glad to have watched it. Am I the only one who noticed your audio dipping in volume occasionally though? Regardless, a great find
Thanks! Yeah there's definitely dips where I've re-recorded, I've yet to make a proper setup where I can get consistent audio readings from different sessions. Hopefully I can get that sorted sooner rather than later, it was a real issue during my VFL series.
Need a line between Collingwood and Fitzroy at the start. Wasn't seriously entertained but was floated as a takeover arrangement similar to Carlton/North.
For Norwood-Sturt why would Matthew Primus go there? Primus is from Geelong and he only went to Port Adelaide in 1997 because in real life his old team Fitzroy now no longer existed which means in this hypothetical the whole reason for his going to SA now doesn't happen.
Good point - on reflection, Primus might be more likely to be drafted by Freo or Canberra at the end of 95. Maybe gets traded to the Cats instead of Ottens in the mid 2000s?
Unfortunately for the NT, the population/economic case is a pretty insurmountable barrier to establishing a team dedicated solely to the NT itself. The situation with Tasmania receiving a licence after the Gold Coast provides a clear explanation for this. A lot of people criticise giving the Gold Coast a football team over Tasmania, based on the idea that, as an established AFL state, Tasmania would be more likely to be a viable football team. The issue though is that the Gold Coast alone has the same population as the entirety of Tasmania in an area over 150 times smaller. Without even accounting for the ability of the Suns to promote football in SEQ and Northern NSW, the Gold Coast alone has far more economic potential then Tasmania. That factor was enough for the AFL to choose a historically fickle, non-AFL native market over a 'heartland' option. Whether you agree with that being the right call or not, it's clear how they came to that decision, and I think those standards need to be considered for any other possible addition to the league. The Northern Territory has under half the population of Tasmania spread over double the landmass. It's simply not enough to support a team outright. The only real way you could make this work is with a hybrid team, either an SA or North Queensland based team that plays half their games in the NT. So either a 'Central Australia' team or a 'North Australia' Team. The SA option is the 'safest'. Leveraging off of SA's established AFL supporter base would provide the security needed to balance greater investment into the NT. You could even go as far as to tie it into an SNAFL team, like Norwood. Have them enter the comp as the Norwood Northern Territory team. North Queensland is riskier, but fits with a growth mindset, targeting a region with decent base level AFL support, but dominated by a rival code. North Queensland is surprisingly pro-AFL, with the sport being quite strong in Cairns. This option is harder, as you'll be working from a much smaller starting point then you would be by piggybacking off the SNAFL. However its a growth opportunity in a similar vein to the Gold Coast and Western Sydney expansions. A confident AFL might favour this option for the sake of pushing a greater market share in QLD, and given the off-field success of the Suns in promoting the sport in what is suppose to be both core NRL territory and an unstable space for sporting teams, there is reason to be optimistic about further expansion into non-traditional territory. A NT Western Australia bid is possible, but I think the distances are starting to get too far for a solid association between the WA aspect and the NT aspect. You would have to get the balance right to ensure it's a genuine NT team and not just a club playing the occasional game in the NT (as is the case for Gold Coast/Melbourne). But ultimately, the key point is that there simply isn't enough resources in the NT to make a viable stand alone team.
I agree that thr AFL always chases potential money in large populations above all else, however this fictional universe in particular has a couple of differences that I think sees the Thunder get across the line: - 18 teams with large income streams, especially the LA team if the sport becomes popular in the USA, could help support a smaller market team - North Coast would, as an established side, need less handout money than GC, meaning there's more handout money for the Thunder - With teams already in every other state, expansion can only really logically happen in either the NT or FNQ. - NT will have a high turnout of fans proportional to population, potentially the highest in the league.
The confusion of two teams with the Magpies logo’s is kinda comedic, makes me wonder if we would get a Melbourne FC type rebranding for either Port Adelaide (magpies) Football Club or Collingwood football club
Yeah not sure what would happen there!! The actual terms of Ports proposed entry allowed them to use the Magpie name, colours and logo they already had - surely changes would be made once the VFL shield styled logos were replaced!
Yeah, unfortunately for the Blues, Elliott was so keen on mergers that they were either going to be a part of the Roos or Saints Bombers were never in serious talks as far as I could see. Collingwood had a big sliding doors moment in 1987 where an administrator was almost called, but since that's not part of merger discussions, the rules of this video meant they had to survive.
@@benjaminrowleywhy? Club is in the black financially, matched fan base with other smaller victorian clubs, more GF wins than any other in same position. With facts, whats the reason they should move? Bear in mind I heard the same call in the 90's while winning GF's so it better be a good reason. 😉
@@geotard there’s to much of a cluster of teams in Melbourne to close to each other nrl teams are better spread out so need to get rid of a smaller Melbourne club
Fair call - I tend to use them interchangeably which is probably irritating to some!! Also I think Barrett has me covered in terms of footy predictions this year sadly 😅😅
Most likely outcome for me is that LA fold, and Tassie steps in as the replacement. The 2011 expansion slot goes to GWS, NT moves to 2012, NZ moves to the 19th entry, and the 20th side...well, I'm not sure actually.
@@thegaz-man I think in that scenario GWS wouldn’t happen, they’ve already got a team in Canberra. It would then most likely stay at 18 teams. Would the 20th team in the scenario you’ve described go to Gold Coast?
Interesting thought experiment. The only one that is way too far fetched is the USA team. It would be a logistical nightmare to have any team outside Australia and with the sport competing against American based sports it would have been a financial catastrophe.
There's a big chance it would have crashed and burned but Errol's intial $10m investment, plus potential ESPN money and funds from a healthier VFL might have seen it work. The US games would have been in large blocks, and the team travelling back from the US would likely have a bye to recover. If it was a flight of fancy I would have ignored it, but Errol had a detailed plan. Would be so funny if it worked.
As a born and bred Richmond supporter, we were destroyed in this. But in reality I rattled those tins for Save Our Skins, so am quite aware how close this reality was. But then even though I’m a Victorian, I have family history with Norwood and would be torn with staying faithful to either heritages.
Apologies, the Tigers were probably worst affected in all this! I'd genuinely love to hear insights into what that fundraising experience was like as a fan and volunteer. It really is incredible how much money Richmond, the Dogs and Fitzroy were able to raise with the help of people like yourself. Guessing that makes 2017-20 feel even better though, because without you and the SOS movement, that doesn't happen.
Interesting!! He'd probably seek a trade early, considering he wouldn't have too much value around the 2011-12 mark. Would be great for the Dragons, could see him staying loyal to them for sure.
@@calmc9655 There definitely was a proposal by the SANFL in 1981 for a Port/Norwood combined team to enter the VFL in 1982 but the VFL rejected the proposal.
@@calmc9655 I was wondering whether you knew that in the very early days of the VFA, in the mid 1880’s there were three teams from Ballarat playing in the Association?
Sadly they only lasted a few years because the cost of regular transportation to and from Melbourne put a significant financial burden upon them. They left the VFA and formed their own association in Ballarat.
Thanks!! Especially after the recent suspension stuff, I think a few people are keen to get away from the reality of the league right now 😅😅 Yeah, had to use AI to cut down the time spent on the process with logo design. Would love to see what a proper designer could do given time and money, unfortunately didn't have either!
Sorry about that!! I think a merged Hawks stay around the middle, miss the gems that came with the super draft and thus miss out on making that insane dynasty team Thanks for the praise! Was really happy with that logo/name, tried to keep the legacy of all three clubs and hope I got the balance right!
Haha apologies, doing that to the Sainters was not fun for me after falling in love with them while making my Saints documentary series last year! I suppose there's some solace to be taken in the merged Saints winning some flags down the line?
Did seem like Melb were only interested in getting the Hawks' facilities and Jason Dunstall. Certainly more acceptance on the Melb side, but I can see it getting over the mine for the Hawks if pitched right, and if Operation Payback was perceived as I described.
As much as I love that half the AFL's teams have a rich, 120 year history, the Melbourne-centric location of them prevents us from having teams in different places. Would love to see an NT and NZ team in real life!
Potentially! I've just gone with the entrants that bidded for the 1997 entry IRL, and also thought adding Norwood-Sturt would be more interesting than a composite team
Can't imagine how that would have felt IRL if that had happened - would Permierships go some way toward repairing the damage? If a Carlton Saints had happened, would you still see yourself as a St Kilda supporter? Also the WA move, if it happened, oh boy that would have been bad. No way Lockett was going out there, right?
if you went into the other state leagues it could have been more fun for the WA teams with the long histories or rivalry and success of South and East Fremantle combining and entering with a blue chevron white based home jumper and red based jumper with a single white center stripe with a monogram of FFC ( basically the souths and easts jumpers patterns with the others colours to fit clashes, although clashes where allowed to happen more in this timeline). Fremantle then enter the compition with stars that where originally from the clubs comming back to play for them in the likes of Simon Black, Jonathan Dorotich, peter bell ( although we already drafted him the competitive list possibly helps with maturing as "docker"), Jeff farmer, Des Headland, Chris Mainwaring, Chris Waterman ( which as reasult lands us his sons) the Materas both join. as well as strong access to farther sons like the Riolis. Fremantle come into the competition Known only as Fremantle FC or Freo, the anchor and therefor docker moniker isnt thought up
I did skip over a lot of the history concerning the WA entries, particularly the second one, mainly because I couldn't see it changing too much. Eagles were too pivotal to the VFL's survival, and apart from Claremont and South Freo, there seemed to be few bids that were concrete enough to take the place of the Dockers in anything else but name. A WA history video someway down the line might be fun, but that'd be a long way away as I'd want to film on location, and I very rarely get to go West.
Haha yeah, kinda represents the very cursed nature of my creation here! With Carey at Sydney, I'm imagining he plays a similar role at North to what the Duck would have done. The sentence 'Richardson wins the 2008 Brownlow for the North Coast Tiger Sharks' shows how crazy this all gets 😅😅
Without him, though, Sydney are unequivocally worse and don't make those GFs. Also, was one of Sydney's best in 2014, and he was 35 in 2022 so a bit beside the point to pick him apart for that lacklustre performance when his more fancied teammates also failed. His 2016 GF was disappointing though for sure.
Why would the Brisbane Bears be created if Richmond has already moved there??? Then all of a Sudden Richmond is back in Melbourne to merge with North??? I don’t see that LA team lasting long either. No success = no interest and that juicy TV contact dries up. Crocs dead in 5 years.
It's a good question - Richmond mooted their move around the time the Bears were publicly announced, if not slightly before. As the AFL were prepared to host Carlton and Sydney in Sydney simultaneously, it's not unreasonable to think that after the Bears were founded, if Richmond decided to pull the trigger and sell home or away games to QLD in 1988, that the VFL would have facilitated that. If the Tigers had moved in 1987, which they didn't even in my fictional reality, the Bears probably would have been delayed. Agree about the LA team being a tenuous option, I just kept them in and solvent for the memes
But at 5:55 you have the Queensland Tigers: "So desperate for money that they do it; they move!" Perhaps the move failed so badly financially that they took the merger with North to return to Victoria? And then when they still can't improve their situation end up back in Queensland as the Sharks by the end of the video!
@@thegaz-man I remember getting up to read the paper during that time and there was a different merger story every day. Not to mention I was a Brisbane member in 1996 and that merger meeting was very heated.
Most south Australian football fans wouldn't have supported a port Adelaide they wouldn't have survived financially viable by the time norwood entered the league.
@@thegaz-man my dad would have disowned me if I supported port and a lot other south Australian football supporters would have felt the same way. When port betrayed the sanfl with their bid they prevented the afl from becoming a real national competition.
So in your universe Port enter the AFL and SANFL go through record numbers, keep to their own league and SA footy lives happily ever after? Never mind... Go Sturtwood
Yeah bit of a weird one. I figured that if Norwood and Sturt are both gobbled up by the AFL with no reserves side, the SANFL needs an Eastern Suburbs team - enter Kensington. If it were real life, Sturt probably stays as the SANFL affiliate.
@@thegaz-man I also wonder if Norwood Sturt would have branded as Adelaide Bluelegs. Anyway very fun video, only wish we could’ve seen Modra playing for West Adelaide in the AFL! Thanks
The main obstacle for that seemed to be Jack Hamilton, and as such talks weren't as advanced as the late 80s and 90s talks that I used as the basis here. Plus, it's really uncertain what the VFL would have looked like with two SA sides in the 1980s, or whether they would have opted for one team or the other. I thought it was a simpler and more accurate prediction to do what I did, but the 1980s entry is definitely an interesting thought exercise
It's merely a thought experiment so nothing's meant by all this! Tigers did get the short end of the stick in all this, bit it is grounded in reality - making the 2017-20 run all the more incredible.
The fact you've given Fremantle a flag means this is the greatest video that TH-cam has to offer. Top work.
Thank the Melbourne Hawks merger! Sadly I think Canberra becomes the new Freo, can't see them doing enough to compete for flags personally
The cultural anarchy that would arise if the Ballarat and Bendigo teams merged would be delectable, and I am all for it.
We might end up liking cold weather here in Bendigo lmao
I've got a bit of a blind spot for culture outside of SA but if a Ballarat-Bendigo team causes chaos, I'm all about it haha
@@thegaz-man Ballarat and Bendigo have this deep riviarly similar to Melbourne and Sydney.
Yeah I’m tipping Ballarat would not be up for merging with Bendigo.
Much like how North Ballarat prospered in the VFL for a while, as an VFL/AFL weakling they’d probably just go back to the local league.
I just realised that Bendigo-Ballarat would probably have a super team from 2016-2021. All these players played for Bgo irl, Dustin Martin, All 3 Selwoods, Jake Stringer, Buddy Franklin (played in a local side), Clayton Oliver. That line up looks pretty insane, plus having the Ballarat region too, yikes
I've got no problem with an October Grand Final, because it allows the legendary line:
"One day in October
You will not be sober"
🤣🤣🤣 love that!!!
this was a fun video, I still think there would be 2 showdowns with red legs probably angry at port for leaving SANFL and Collingwood for the magpies name. would be very entertaining.
The more rivalries, the better! 3 teams in Canberra/NSW area provides for rivalry, while I think Bendigo/Ballarat v Geelong will be like a Showdown in itself.
Even in alternative timeline the VFL/AFL shun Tasmania so much that the USA get a team before the Apple Isle.😂
Had to keep it a bit realistic 🤣🤣
Even if they weren't forced to, surely Collingwood or Port change their nickname at some point for the sake of branding or to avoid confusion. Can still imagine them both refusing to do so in which case they'd probably end up with colloquial nicknames to distinguish them
Probably most people would end up just calling Port 'Port', or having a Pies-Maggies differentiation
This is the closest I will get to seeing Norwood win an AFL flag.
Spectacular work here, this was a lot of fun.
Norwood should be the 20th team once Tassie comes in. They’re a ready made club with a huge History.
Ballarat-Bendigo could easily be known as Goldfields in this effort.
Excellent shout!! Much better name, much more modern
Goldfields, the only club to have an intense rivalry with itself.
@@RobertJW 😂😂😂
'Diggers'?
@MartinInBC decent name suggestion! Would probably step on ADF toes though, and potentially be awkward around ANZAC Day. Better than something like the Miners, though - imagine BT starts talking about how much he loves the Miners and all of a sudden a paddywagon appears!
Thank you for using sliding doors correctly. Don't like where my team ended up (North Coast) but the journey was fascinating.
Those Barrett articles trigger me so much haha
Yeah apologies about destroying the fabric of your club multiple times (especially if you're a Richmond fan) but the North Coast story arc was certainly the biggest roller coaster!
Great video, would find it really interesting to see a “Super league split” for the AFL on the mid to late 90s. Who would end up where and end up folding on the re-amalgamation of the leagues
Well that nearly happened in 1984!!! John Elliott of Carlton made a proposal to separate from VFL governance, which may just have been a ploy to get the VFL to create the Commission, but he had the support of a large number of clubs!
For more detail, check out my VFL History series!
Bendigo Dragons also matches one of the oldest Bendigo Football sides called the Sandhurst Dragons.
Because Sandhurst colours are the same as the older Fitzroy (Maroon and Blue) jumper, I can see them having a Golden Maroon colors to put them contrast with other VFL teams at the time.
Ballarat did get their own VFL/VFA side called the North Ballarat Roosters during the mid to late 90s but much like the Bendigo Diggers in the VFL/VFA, they didn't last that long.
I think this version of Bendigo would be a mix of a league composite team or merger between Sandhurst and one or two other teams
Maroon and gold would be interesting, might clash with Hawthorn though?
North Ballarat won a 3-peat in the late 2000s. Far more successful than Bendigo, who couldn't even make finals without their Essendon affiliation.
@awwghh563 ahhhhhh yep
Fair enough, think I missed that in my initial research, ended up reading about it in Dyson Hore-Lacy's book a couple weeks ago
GAZ-man is the finest AFL science fiction writer in existence.😄👏👏👏
Haha thanks!!! Some of these mergers are proper alien scifi level weird 😅😅
If Ablett Junior never went to the Gold Coast because of no Gold Coast Suns in 2011, then Geelong would have most likely won the 2013 and 2014 Premierships instead of Hawthorn.
Plus Ablett Junior wouldn't have hurt his shoulder in 2014 if he was still playing with the Cats, so he would have been a 3-time Brownlow Medal Winner.
Absolutely. GAJ is already a legend but if he stays at Geelong, gets that third Brownlow and a couple more flags, he'd be the true GOAT
Sorry Hawks too strong. Once the curse was broken geelong couldn't match them.
Was looking at the footy guernsey template and couldn't quite put my finger on why it was so familiar until I remembered that I'd made it years ago now. Awesome to people using it!
Hope that's okay, apologies about the uncredited use! Can credit you if you'd like!
I am interested now, what's the link to the guernsey template?
This is a much more acceptable timeline than the one the AFL has given us. Well done.
Thanks!! I'd love to see a Tassie or Canberra team win a flag one day
@@thegaz-man The timeline does my team no favours, but it diversifies the V-AFL which is what's truly needed.
10 Victorian teams and only one of them a quasi-regional team (Geelong is more sattelite city than it's own thing now) means it's still only a VFL or even more accurately Melbourne Suburban Football League with pretensions.
The AFL needed to get serious and strip licences, forcibly relocate or relegate teams to fix this.
A true National team would need a Canberra team, a Tassie team, and an extra team each from SA and WA, so the bigger "footy" states don't feel like it's just a VFL+. An NT team would be nice, but I can't see how it's financially viable, but for now let's include it anyway. An NZ team would also be nice, and it's something the NRL managed to pull off first.
That's 24 teams and no US team yet.
But really you can't pull of a national comp with more than 20 teams or you're stuck with 2 x 12 team conferences and that becomes more like a Victoria getting a straight shot into the finals. And you can't break up any of the vic power clubs so they only play each other if they both make the finals from 2 different conferences either, because revenue matters to professional sports.
So that needs Victoria coming down to 6 teams to accomodate all of these in, and that STILL means Victoria has at least twice as many teams as any other state.
How do you get Victoria down to 6 teams? You can't.
The only sensible option is moving North to Canberra (as the Tassie team is now a done deal, so no Blundstone for you North), and Western Bulldogs to NT, and the Saints to NZ, but that leaves you 19, and you can have your US team, or a PNG /Tiwi team to make 20.
@@AndyViant So you openly admit getting it down to 6 Vic teams makes bugger all difference and would be meaningless, but still champion the idea of sending 2 teams to areas you earlier admitted aren't viable, thus destroying them?? some of you interstate supporters deadset need therapy
This is so cursed. So many crazy mergers. An LA team would probably never work in an Australian League. An LA Aussie Rules team could only compete in an American professional AFL league. Something I hope becomes a reality one day. The only way a team like Hawthorn would play Los Angeles would be in a Champions League style or International Friendly match
Absolutely cursed haha
Yeah not sure how the LA logistics would work as West Coast were expected to pay for Vic teams to fly over to WA
Guessing that ESPN money would help fund that, especially if the game got a foothold and managed to grow
I wouldn't put it past folks in both Aus and the US trying to make it work.
We shouldn't forget that the NFL is forever trying to put a team in London. That same delusion pervades all our other sports leagues, and while I haven't followed the AFL as long as American leagues, from what I've seen the league has its own fair share of that too.
That was awesome. My Collingwood wasn't touched (apart from stolen 2010) and most importantly the new team plays half there (home) games 2 hours down the road in Wellington so I get to watch more live footy HURRAY!
Yeah, Collingwood were certainly too big to take down in the Merger Age. Their 2010-11 sides were amazing but a combined Saints/Blues entity probably only just rolls them for mine.
I think footy in NZ is the next big frontier - it's a market as big as WA and SA combined, and the NRL shows that an NZ team can work logistics-wise in an Aus league. Would love to see the silver fern on an AFL jersey someday.
Canberra getting in so early gives me tingles. Would love to be wearing green and blue to Manuka every fortnight.
Funny, as I read that I was literally walking into Bruce to watch the Raiders!
That NZ teams logo and away jersey is so, so good. I want this team to exist just so I can look at them.
Thanks!! Just a bit of an unrefined concept using royalty free stock assets, would love to see what a proper version would look like
This is a phenomenonal video and I'm so glad to have watched it.
Am I the only one who noticed your audio dipping in volume occasionally though? Regardless, a great find
Thanks!
Yeah there's definitely dips where I've re-recorded, I've yet to make a proper setup where I can get consistent audio readings from different sessions. Hopefully I can get that sorted sooner rather than later, it was a real issue during my VFL series.
Need a line between Collingwood and Fitzroy at the start. Wasn't seriously entertained but was floated as a takeover arrangement similar to Carlton/North.
I tried not to mention the failed merger bids as much as possible for time reasons - my Age of the Merger video covers most of those.
@@thegaz-man i just meant on the initial corkboard display. Pedantry on my part!
The Imperials are such a good name and the Canberra Griffins need to be the next team to come in. Good work.
Thanks! Absolutely agree that Canberra need a side in the AFL!
I love this alternate AFL. A better competition than now with teams in California and NZ
Makes it more interesting, right?!
For Norwood-Sturt why would Matthew Primus go there? Primus is from Geelong and he only went to Port Adelaide in 1997 because in real life his old team Fitzroy now no longer existed which means in this hypothetical the whole reason for his going to SA now doesn't happen.
Good point - on reflection, Primus might be more likely to be drafted by Freo or Canberra at the end of 95. Maybe gets traded to the Cats instead of Ottens in the mid 2000s?
Unfortunately for the NT, the population/economic case is a pretty insurmountable barrier to establishing a team dedicated solely to the NT itself. The situation with Tasmania receiving a licence after the Gold Coast provides a clear explanation for this. A lot of people criticise giving the Gold Coast a football team over Tasmania, based on the idea that, as an established AFL state, Tasmania would be more likely to be a viable football team. The issue though is that the Gold Coast alone has the same population as the entirety of Tasmania in an area over 150 times smaller. Without even accounting for the ability of the Suns to promote football in SEQ and Northern NSW, the Gold Coast alone has far more economic potential then Tasmania. That factor was enough for the AFL to choose a historically fickle, non-AFL native market over a 'heartland' option. Whether you agree with that being the right call or not, it's clear how they came to that decision, and I think those standards need to be considered for any other possible addition to the league.
The Northern Territory has under half the population of Tasmania spread over double the landmass. It's simply not enough to support a team outright. The only real way you could make this work is with a hybrid team, either an SA or North Queensland based team that plays half their games in the NT. So either a 'Central Australia' team or a 'North Australia' Team.
The SA option is the 'safest'. Leveraging off of SA's established AFL supporter base would provide the security needed to balance greater investment into the NT. You could even go as far as to tie it into an SNAFL team, like Norwood. Have them enter the comp as the Norwood Northern Territory team.
North Queensland is riskier, but fits with a growth mindset, targeting a region with decent base level AFL support, but dominated by a rival code. North Queensland is surprisingly pro-AFL, with the sport being quite strong in Cairns. This option is harder, as you'll be working from a much smaller starting point then you would be by piggybacking off the SNAFL. However its a growth opportunity in a similar vein to the Gold Coast and Western Sydney expansions. A confident AFL might favour this option for the sake of pushing a greater market share in QLD, and given the off-field success of the Suns in promoting the sport in what is suppose to be both core NRL territory and an unstable space for sporting teams, there is reason to be optimistic about further expansion into non-traditional territory.
A NT Western Australia bid is possible, but I think the distances are starting to get too far for a solid association between the WA aspect and the NT aspect. You would have to get the balance right to ensure it's a genuine NT team and not just a club playing the occasional game in the NT (as is the case for Gold Coast/Melbourne). But ultimately, the key point is that there simply isn't enough resources in the NT to make a viable stand alone team.
I agree that thr AFL always chases potential money in large populations above all else, however this fictional universe in particular has a couple of differences that I think sees the Thunder get across the line:
- 18 teams with large income streams, especially the LA team if the sport becomes popular in the USA, could help support a smaller market team
- North Coast would, as an established side, need less handout money than GC, meaning there's more handout money for the Thunder
- With teams already in every other state, expansion can only really logically happen in either the NT or FNQ.
- NT will have a high turnout of fans proportional to population, potentially the highest in the league.
The confusion of two teams with the Magpies logo’s is kinda comedic, makes me wonder if we would get a Melbourne FC type rebranding for either Port Adelaide (magpies) Football Club or Collingwood football club
Yeah not sure what would happen there!! The actual terms of Ports proposed entry allowed them to use the Magpie name, colours and logo they already had - surely changes would be made once the VFL shield styled logos were replaced!
Shame that Essendon and Collingwood still exists in this timeline while the blues end up with St Kilda
Yeah, unfortunately for the Blues, Elliott was so keen on mergers that they were either going to be a part of the Roos or Saints
Bombers were never in serious talks as far as I could see.
Collingwood had a big sliding doors moment in 1987 where an administrator was almost called, but since that's not part of merger discussions, the rules of this video meant they had to survive.
@@thegaz-manu could be right about the roos tho lmao they could be relocated to the Northern Territory in the near future
@@benjaminrowleywhy? Club is in the black financially, matched fan base with other smaller victorian clubs, more GF wins than any other in same position.
With facts, whats the reason they should move? Bear in mind I heard the same call in the 90's while winning GF's so it better be a good reason. 😉
@@geotard there’s to much of a cluster of teams in Melbourne to close to each other nrl teams are better spread out so need to get rid of a smaller Melbourne club
Babe… babe wakeup, Gazman uploaded
Thanks for your efforts mate. Fantastic video 👍
Cheers!! Glad you enjoyed it, was good fun to make!
Great Video mate!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!!!
How South Melbourne fc in VPL and B- league became they play a Lakeside oval
Bendigo Dragons also is named after Sandhurst Dragons
The biggest team in Bendigo
I think mine is more of a composite team than a Sandhurst entry, but couldn't help using the name. So cool, and really fitting
@@thegaz-man Ha yeah plus unique
you should do a VFL/VFA merger with promotion and relegation next
Would love to explore that, don't really know how to accurately rewrite history from the point where that was proposed though tbh
@@thegaz-manmaybe adjust the recruitment zones or have a draft system earlier? although the rich clubs would’ve hated that
If you want to criticise Damien Barrett perhaps you should learn that Australian Rules teams wear GUERNSEYS not Jerseys.
Fair call - I tend to use them interchangeably which is probably irritating to some!!
Also I think Barrett has me covered in terms of footy predictions this year sadly 😅😅
Tassie would’ve got a team sooner than 2011, they got incredibly close in the 80s or 90s
Most likely outcome for me is that LA fold, and Tassie steps in as the replacement. The 2011 expansion slot goes to GWS, NT moves to 2012, NZ moves to the 19th entry, and the 20th side...well, I'm not sure actually.
@@thegaz-man I think in that scenario GWS wouldn’t happen, they’ve already got a team in Canberra. It would then most likely stay at 18 teams. Would the 20th team in the scenario you’ve described go to Gold Coast?
Interesting thought experiment. The only one that is way too far fetched is the USA team. It would be a logistical nightmare to have any team outside Australia and with the sport competing against American based sports it would have been a financial catastrophe.
There's a big chance it would have crashed and burned but Errol's intial $10m investment, plus potential ESPN money and funds from a healthier VFL might have seen it work. The US games would have been in large blocks, and the team travelling back from the US would likely have a bye to recover.
If it was a flight of fancy I would have ignored it, but Errol had a detailed plan. Would be so funny if it worked.
Given Freo won a flag in this universe I’d swap it in a heartbeat
Poor Freo. Somewhere out there is a universe where Sandilands and Pavlich are halfway through their 10th anniversary Premiership reunion.
As a born and bred Richmond supporter, we were destroyed in this. But in reality I rattled those tins for Save Our Skins, so am quite aware how close this reality was. But then even though I’m a Victorian, I have family history with Norwood and would be torn with staying faithful to either heritages.
Apologies, the Tigers were probably worst affected in all this!
I'd genuinely love to hear insights into what that fundraising experience was like as a fan and volunteer. It really is incredible how much money Richmond, the Dogs and Fitzroy were able to raise with the help of people like yourself. Guessing that makes 2017-20 feel even better though, because without you and the SOS movement, that doesn't happen.
With dusty being a Castlemaine boy and pretty media shy what are your thoughts on him seeking a trade to the dragons?
Interesting!! He'd probably seek a trade early, considering he wouldn't have too much value around the 2011-12 mark. Would be great for the Dragons, could see him staying loyal to them for sure.
I'm gonna need that bendigo dragons logo on a beanie
If there's enough interest, I'll put refined versions of some of these logos up on my Redbubble page!
yes please!
What about the proposed SANFL bid for a Port - Norwood combination to enter the VFL in 1982?
Come on, at least keep it within the realm of plausible fantasy mate
@@calmc9655 There definitely was a proposal by the SANFL in 1981 for a Port/Norwood combined team to enter the VFL in 1982 but the VFL rejected the proposal.
@@catherinedunsmuir8118 I know I'm just ribbing ya as a 'Legs supporter.. but that one might have caused an actual riot haha
@@calmc9655 I was wondering whether you knew that in the very early days of the VFA, in the mid 1880’s there were three teams from Ballarat playing in the Association?
Sadly they only lasted a few years because the cost of regular transportation to and from Melbourne put a significant financial burden upon them.
They left the VFA and formed their own association in Ballarat.
The great man is back
Thanks!!! Apologies for the gap in content, hoping that things will be a bit more consistent now
This sort of vid is just fun to watch.
BLOODY ERROL!
Haha would have loved to see his crazy plan work!
The pies were spared letsgooo
They cannot be destroyed no matter how hard I try 😅😅
Honestly preferring AFL fanfics to the real league at the minute, also commend the non nefarious use of AI
Thanks!! Especially after the recent suspension stuff, I think a few people are keen to get away from the reality of the league right now 😅😅
Yeah, had to use AI to cut down the time spent on the process with logo design. Would love to see what a proper designer could do given time and money, unfortunately didn't have either!
My Hawks got destroyed
but i do like The North Coast Tiger Sharks best logo ever
Sorry about that!! I think a merged Hawks stay around the middle, miss the gems that came with the super draft and thus miss out on making that insane dynasty team
Thanks for the praise! Was really happy with that logo/name, tried to keep the legacy of all three clubs and hope I got the balance right!
All I have to say is… I don’t think I would live in Melbourne if stkilda had merged with Carlton. I’d be a full time Brisbane broncos fan lol
Haha apologies, doing that to the Sainters was not fun for me after falling in love with them while making my Saints documentary series last year!
I suppose there's some solace to be taken in the merged Saints winning some flags down the line?
Gaz man, please make a video on how newcastle should be the 20th afl team, please.
Would be an interesting topic! Not sure when I'd be able to get around to it, but I'll take a little look into it
Nah that’s hardcore league territory
The North Coast Tiger Sharks is a corporate spectre that will haunt my dreams 😵💫
It is a truly cursed franchise haha
Melb /hawthorn was never going to be a meger. It was more melb than hawks
Did seem like Melb were only interested in getting the Hawks' facilities and Jason Dunstall. Certainly more acceptance on the Melb side, but I can see it getting over the mine for the Hawks if pitched right, and if Operation Payback was perceived as I described.
Bro towards the end of this alternate universe these teams look pretty interesting
As much as I love that half the AFL's teams have a rich, 120 year history, the Melbourne-centric location of them prevents us from having teams in different places. Would love to see an NT and NZ team in real life!
That norwood bid would have probably became a sanfl bid and might have become Adelaide crows
Potentially! I've just gone with the entrants that bidded for the 1997 entry IRL, and also thought adding Norwood-Sturt would be more interesting than a composite team
Merging with Carlton was pretty much the worst outcome imaginable.
Can't imagine how that would have felt IRL if that had happened - would Permierships go some way toward repairing the damage? If a Carlton Saints had happened, would you still see yourself as a St Kilda supporter?
Also the WA move, if it happened, oh boy that would have been bad. No way Lockett was going out there, right?
if you went into the other state leagues it could have been more fun for the WA teams with the long histories or rivalry and success of South and East Fremantle combining and entering with a blue chevron white based home jumper and red based jumper with a single white center stripe with a monogram of FFC ( basically the souths and easts jumpers patterns with the others colours to fit clashes, although clashes where allowed to happen more in this timeline). Fremantle then enter the compition with stars that where originally from the clubs comming back to play for them in the likes of Simon Black, Jonathan Dorotich, peter bell ( although we already drafted him the competitive list possibly helps with maturing as "docker"), Jeff farmer, Des Headland, Chris Mainwaring, Chris Waterman ( which as reasult lands us his sons) the Materas both join. as well as strong access to farther sons like the Riolis. Fremantle come into the competition Known only as Fremantle FC or Freo, the anchor and therefor docker moniker isnt thought up
I did skip over a lot of the history concerning the WA entries, particularly the second one, mainly because I couldn't see it changing too much. Eagles were too pivotal to the VFL's survival, and apart from Claremont and South Freo, there seemed to be few bids that were concrete enough to take the place of the Dockers in anything else but name.
A WA history video someway down the line might be fun, but that'd be a long way away as I'd want to film on location, and I very rarely get to go West.
crazy how richo played in 3 different teams without actually moving club!!!
Haha yeah, kinda represents the very cursed nature of my creation here! With Carey at Sydney, I'm imagining he plays a similar role at North to what the Duck would have done. The sentence 'Richardson wins the 2008 Brownlow for the North Coast Tiger Sharks' shows how crazy this all gets 😅😅
Nicholls would be playing for Bendigo not Ballarat iirc
Ahhh cheers. Either way I think the country zones in this hypothetical would just be so messed up haha
Hahahahahaha, 2014 Franklin proves the difference. Franklin achieved nothing in Sydney and choked in all 3 Swans GF losses.
Without him, though, Sydney are unequivocally worse and don't make those GFs.
Also, was one of Sydney's best in 2014, and he was 35 in 2022 so a bit beside the point to pick him apart for that lacklustre performance when his more fancied teammates also failed.
His 2016 GF was disappointing though for sure.
Why would the Brisbane Bears be created if Richmond has already moved there???
Then all of a Sudden Richmond is back in Melbourne to merge with North???
I don’t see that LA team lasting long either. No success = no interest and that juicy TV contact dries up. Crocs dead in 5 years.
It's a good question - Richmond mooted their move around the time the Bears were publicly announced, if not slightly before. As the AFL were prepared to host Carlton and Sydney in Sydney simultaneously, it's not unreasonable to think that after the Bears were founded, if Richmond decided to pull the trigger and sell home or away games to QLD in 1988, that the VFL would have facilitated that. If the Tigers had moved in 1987, which they didn't even in my fictional reality, the Bears probably would have been delayed.
Agree about the LA team being a tenuous option, I just kept them in and solvent for the memes
But at 5:55 you have the Queensland Tigers: "So desperate for money that they do it; they move!"
Perhaps the move failed so badly financially that they took the merger with North to return to Victoria?
And then when they still can't improve their situation end up back in Queensland as the Sharks by the end of the video!
Anarchy.
Yeah it got pretty crazy pretty fast!! Crazy how many merger talks were happening in that era
@@thegaz-man I remember getting up to read the paper during that time and there was a different merger story every day. Not to mention I was a Brisbane member in 1996 and that merger meeting was very heated.
Most south Australian football fans wouldn't have supported a port Adelaide they wouldn't have survived financially viable by the time norwood entered the league.
Can see your logic but if Port survived in 1997 as a second team in the market, they should survive in 1990 as the only game in town.
@@thegaz-man my dad would have disowned me if I supported port and a lot other south Australian football supporters would have felt the same way. When port betrayed the sanfl with their bid they prevented the afl from becoming a real national competition.
So in your universe Port enter the AFL and SANFL go through record numbers, keep to their own league and SA footy lives happily ever after?
Never mind... Go Sturtwood
Sturtwood 😂😂
Yeah I guess it stays strong in the early 90s, then reverts to something similar to now once the cursed Redlegs Sturt hybrid is formed
Any universe that includes port, is shit
🤣🤣🤣 this universe's Port has only won 2 flag as well, don't worry!!
The blues win a flag in my lifetime 😍
As a Crows man, I feel your pain - seeing the computer spit out a Crom Premiership filled my battered old heart
Everything Almagest video there never Collingwood
Even with their flash new home and logo, I still _fu**en_ hate North. 🤣
🤣🤣🤣 fair enough!
Silvio Fosheeny.
Cheers! I swear some of my pronunciations are so bad, it's almost a meme at this point 😅😅
This guy hates Hawthorn. Must be a Geelong fan.
Adelaide fan actually! Certainly not the Hawks' biggest fan, can't say I hate them, same with Geelong, really.
What makes you say I hate the Hawks?
@@thegaz-man oh just that you took 4 premierships from us, including a threepeat!. ;)
Kensington????
Yeah bit of a weird one.
I figured that if Norwood and Sturt are both gobbled up by the AFL with no reserves side, the SANFL needs an Eastern Suburbs team - enter Kensington.
If it were real life, Sturt probably stays as the SANFL affiliate.
@@thegaz-man I also wonder if Norwood Sturt would have branded as Adelaide Bluelegs. Anyway very fun video, only wish we could’ve seen Modra playing for West Adelaide in the AFL! Thanks
terrifying
It's a super weird scenario haha
Like hawthorn demons😅
Such a weird idea to think of those two sides merging!!!
Port and Norwood should of joined afl together in the 80s
The main obstacle for that seemed to be Jack Hamilton, and as such talks weren't as advanced as the late 80s and 90s talks that I used as the basis here.
Plus, it's really uncertain what the VFL would have looked like with two SA sides in the 1980s, or whether they would have opted for one team or the other.
I thought it was a simpler and more accurate prediction to do what I did, but the 1980s entry is definitely an interesting thought exercise
Send North Melb to Joondalup-Wanneroo. Become the Wanneroo Roos.
🤣🤣🤣 the wannaROOS
Enjoy your fantasy land with us out of the comp... meanwhile back in reality....
It's merely a thought experiment so nothing's meant by all this! Tigers did get the short end of the stick in all this, bit it is grounded in reality - making the 2017-20 run all the more incredible.
The alt league is much more well balanced
Definitely tried to address the Vic numbers imbalance with a lot of these moves!
@@thegaz-man don’t love the Carlton Saints but happy Alt Universe Harvey, Loewe and Burke play in a couple of flags.