I was a young teenager when my dad got really wrapped up into Julie Rowe. It was to the point that we’d have FHE discussions about her books and the second coming. It really unnerved me. I was so convinced it was true that I even planned to become a nurse only because I felt that was one of the only professions that would be useful in the apocalypse. I wonder what other ambitions I would have had had I not been convinced the world was going to end within my lifetime. Although I am not fully out of the church, I’d like to say thank you to Mormon stories podcast for shedding light on this. Keep up the good work.
I'm not mormon..but do not trust the elite rich...running the farse of supposed caring 😂 false flag..we support a government..and/or church...while in today's time..purposely...do evil..where maybe Joseph was a man..wanting to and think more...yet, not perfect...compared to those ruling banks...why doesn't anyone ever bring up the non...govt...federal reserve....BUT not one person is taught about or threatened/destroyed/disappear....bringing up the truth.
Lauren and Dr. John are one of the most credible duos on the True Crime channels. This is my first time on Mormon Stories Podcast and John and Mindy were very genuine and honest. I’m not a Mormon so interesting to learn a few things.
My first time on here too, and I am lds. I expected it would be an unobjective bashing session that I would just have to turn off when I got fed up with the one sidedness. But it was actually pretty objective and insightful, which I respect and appreciate.
This was great. I love seeing Dr. John Matthias speaking out and not being so camera shy. I know he doesn’t care for it much but he has such valuable insight.
Wow.....what an episode. I was lucky enough to listen in live (in the wee dark hours of early morning here in Australia). No words can describe this case of Vallow/Daybell. I happened to stumble across the Court.TV channel on TH-cam a couple of years ago, just as this case broke, and have been hooked ever since. Actually, it was this case that bought me too Mormon Stories, as being an atheist, I was keen to find out the religious background of these two. What a rabbit hole it has turned out to be......I'm now a huge fan of John D and Carah!!........can't wait for part two!!!
Lauren, as a Catholic your statements on the Church being there for Tylee is exactly how I feel with the Catholic church and the horror of the sexual abuse of women and children. My belief currently is that the Church is a money making venture operating under the guise of Christianity and preying on people's guilt and their strong belief in tithing their 10%. Whatever keeps the $$ coming in. It's left me church-less, but I would rather be afloat on my own than supporting or appearing that I condone violence and SA of primarily women & children.
“Church” according to the Bible is the body of believers only not a building or “organized religion”! Christ was not about “religion” and it’s man-made institutions, rules and regulations. Definitely not doctrines. I was brought up Baptist and now go to no church. Jesus said where two or more are gathered in my name there am I also. THATS having “church” His church meeting together.
@@sharronpettis384 also many churches will lead you astray. I just read scriptures, keep my Faith very known and pray. I talk to God all day every day.
@@sharronpettis384 Happy for you!! We don’t need an intercessor too Jesus/ God. That’s why the Temple cloth into the Holies of Holies was ripped top to the bottom when Jesus Died in the cross. Most ppl don’t know that, that cloth was very thick like 12 cm or so, of course hand woven no way it just fell apart. Opening up the way too Christ too everyone. Raised Baptist an now just believe the Bible an the Word. I believe we are in a much better place.
You're right. They're corporations that worship the almighty dollar. While being tax exempt. When the members commit crimes they cover it up to protect their reputation and $$$!
I appreciated Lauren's words at the end, which were full of compassion and humanity. Shame on the Mormon church for protecting its assets and reputation rather than extending love and support to a hurting community.
Thanks you Lauren and Dr John, for sending the link to this podcast.... The four of you worked so well together in bringing this to us and explaining so much more... Truly excellent. Chad seemed to have lived in the shadows of his brothers and possibly had no sense of himself until he linked in with Julie Rowe.... His confidence was nill and slowly but surely gained popularity when writing his books... As you pointed out the books got more attention because of his "near death experience" he needed something that drew people in.... That also got Lories attention and unfortunately became a devastating situation.... Justice for all the victims of this dreadful case... Regards from Ireland 🇮🇪
Amazing what you can get away with and how long you can get away with it as long as you speak the right language, have the right haircut, wear the right color of shirt, pay the recommended amount, and otherwise represent as being "active" in every OSTENSIBLE and OUTWARD way.
Yes, it blows my mind. I also think they took advantage of doing their deeds in different states and towns. A "natural death" in one state and "self-defense killing" in another isn't going to seem odd or even have any dots to connect, but if the same key players started showing up in these incidents within one town or a specific area, cops are going to get suspicious. It's scary to think that if Lori hadn't been so sloppy with Charles' Amazon account and using the Jeep to try to shoot Brandon, they might still be getting away with it. Heck, if they had just stopped with Charles and Tammy people probably wouldn't have connected it all. But, as usual, greed and lust won out.
I currently live down the road from where these kids were buried and it's devastating. I was LDS until the age of 17 and their actions are not of the church. Murder, adultery and all things that drive that like lust and greed are not how the LDS people live. However they took things from the church and tried to use many of the LDS beliefs as a way to justify the evil they were doing... Basically the church can't be blamed directly but they should not ignore that these people drug the church through their dramatic evil deeds. Bless these poor kids and bless Kay and Larry who opened this case open with their pure love for JJ. Xo
The average Mormon lives a decent upstanding life because most people WANT to lead a decent upstanding life. The Mormon church, the religion itself, is a false cult founded by con men for personal gain. Period. That’s beyond provable. It’s overwhelming.
What I’ve been so curious about is when people say they twisted scripture is it the Book of Mormon theyre talking about or the Bible? Because Joseph smith totally contradicted the Bible. In this terrible tragedy Lori and Chad often quote Nehi from the Book of Mormon. I guess it’s probably both. You’re absolutely right Miss Lacee. The LDS church and any other church beliefs are dragged through the mud. And this bunch are certainly not the first to create their own cult twisting truth to suit their own power driven evil desires.
Thank you Lauren! Your words of tribute to the children brought tears. It is baffling that the church refuses to address this horrific tragedy. "Say their names." May they forever rest in peace. 💜💜
People in LDS seem afraid to speak. This tells me the LDS is a cult. It's followers are afraid to speak in the face of what is to me (as an outsider looking in) sheer evil. Their silence implies complicity in what has happened.
Ignoring it and letting it run its natural cause is normal for any church. By not acknowledging the problem they can turn their backs on it as if it has nothing to do with them. It almost always works.
@@yogaby The least they could do is make a statement concerning this cult. There were a lot more ppl in the LDS sucked into Chads delusions than Lori. By not speaking out it seems the LDS is accepting of the craziness.
Mindy is a great co-host. I am a never Mo, but growing up in Arizona I am surrounded by Mormons. I decided in High School that Mormonism was a cult. The Bible in Galations book 1 warns us against those that preach another gospel. Dr. John Dehlin and his guests have taught me a lot about the Mormon experience.
You're absolutely right. If you're not their kind (Mormon) they look down at you. The Book of Mormons is a big give away. Revelation 22:10 versus 18-19 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book (The Bible) If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plaques described in this book, (The Bible) and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this book. (The Bible).
My mom used her near death experience to control and manipulate me and my brothers when we were young… “God saved my life so you better listen to me…” it was painful.
I have an Aunt and Uncle, she converted to Mormon as a college student in the 60’s, eventually converting one of my cousins (from another of my Dads VERY non-religious sisters. My late father, who died a few years ago at age 94, his younger sister who converted to LDS was over 20 years younger and we used to call his family “Heinz 57 varieties” because they all went in far different directions). My cousin, who I became close to when she and her own large family moved to my hometown-and had children the same age as mine; used to listen to me and my kids talk about my VERY active dream-life, trying to get me to read books by Mormons about visions and NDE’s…so, from everything she would tell me back in the 90’s, I assume she’s also branched into this strange belief system of NDE’s and visions. We used to talk about how my post-apocalyptic dreams had ties to reality…but my cousin took that as signs they were visions from God, NOT just my subconscious bringing up fears and themes from books I’d read or movies I’d seen. I mistakenly gave her a story I wrote after a very strange dream when I was just 16…(also post-apocalyptic, I was fascinated with volcanoes as a child and had this dream after reading Nevil Shutes One the Beach and Pat Frank’s Alas Babylon..it was the height of the Cold War & we had neighbors building nuclear shelters). While it NEVER occurred to me that this dream could actually be a “vision” of the future-or past; my cousin read this strange story from my dream, and took it as a vision from God. In recent years, both my aunt and cousin have called me asking whether I have seen/dreamt any new dreams and written them down. I’ve had plenty of crazy dreams, but rarely write them down like I did years ago. I recognize the difference between fact and fiction, dreams from my subconscious and “visions”. What is it with the LDS church where they seem to confuse these concepts? I also have done a lot of research in recent years into the Q-Cult, and found quite a few LDS folks into it, with the same issues of folks unable to discern between fact,fiction and faith beliefs. Just for the record-I retired from the Catholic Church over 40 years ago, never really believing what I’d been taught, view myself as an agnostic. I went into medicine and research at a young age, believe what I can see, feel or hear myself, or prove through the scientific method. I find ancient Eastern philosophies more believable than modern Western “religions” and absolutely hate what frauds and grifters have done to organized religions over the years-for power and greed. I also believe in a strict delineation between church and state in our country…something that has obviously fallen apart.
Some people call their own thoughts "voices in their head" as a way of not taking responsibility for their own thoughts and actions. It's a scam. Ignorant people fall for it.
Sorry you are agnostic. You miss out on so much. The Bible is the best book in the world and you should study it as you sound like an intelligent person. I do believe that we are living in the tend times but based strictly on Revelations and not visions or dreams. Mormons have always believed in them and that religion attracted people who fall for that as they have revised their history many times based on their visions and dreams. Whatever they need to do they just conveniently have a revelation so they can change it. Never understood how people could believe what they preach as they talk about the Bible but only adhere to the Book of Mormon.
@@helenussery4756 It's a cult, and a dark one. Mormons are the nicest people - but the LDS religion is frightening, and even evil when you get deeper into it. And they are dishonest. They never tell you what they truly believe upfront - they see this deception as "beneficial" for converts, otherwise no one would ever join!
There is a multi episode documentary on CNN I think: Doomsday something. It was available On Demand. It’s really good, it focuses on the perspectives of Kay Woodcock & her husband . They were JJs paternal grandparents.
Magical thinking combined with narcissism is a helluva drug and, apparently, potentially quite dangerous. ETA: On second thought, it could be something like non-reality-based thinking rising to the level of a grandiose delusion, spurred on by magical thinking.
I can't speak nearly so grand. My sense of these declarations is that you hear someone like Chad and you figure it might be true. But it probably isn't. So you concoct an event that makes you a little more important. After you tell it a few times it becomes part of you. This goes through your acquaintances with each susceptible person creating a grander experience until it gets to a nut job like Lori. It begins with a false prophet and ends with a person entitled to execute or smite the disobedient.
This (for me) is the culmination of all the pods I've been following - re Chad Lori, LDS, conspiracy theories, and what the church will do about it... THANK YOU love your style John D. Though not a member - I've come to be nourished by your content daily, and will contribute from now on
Don’t see how Lauren can believe in Mormon prophet Joseph smith and teachings and yet debunks chad Daybell prophecies. They are both charlatans . Same bolt of cloth, I would expect more from an investigative reporter. How does Dr. John abide her weird beliefs?
@@phillipstroll7385 Hmmn? Are you directing this question to me? Or MS, John Dehlin? ~ They're more qualified to address the differences between JS's translations and traditional texts.
Chad is the oldest. "Matt [Daybell] and his wife, Heather, have lived in the Rexburg area for more than 15 years. *Chad Daybell is his oldest brother,* and Matt says they have not directly spoken to each other since Tammy Daybell’s memorial service in Rexburg on Oct. 23, 2019."
As a non-Mormon and a non- theist, the information presented here is fascinating. I'm down the proverbial rabbit hole and thoroughly enjoying the ride. Thanks!
SO delighted Mormon Stories is discussing this at last, and I have two burning questions, prefaced with the fact that I'm not ex-LDS, not even heavily religious but like Dr John grew up as a Lutheran- Zwingli Protestant. Here goes: Listening to Lori ramble on in her monologue during thst recorded meeting, she talks about the Mother [in heaven] About being a strong woman, a warrior. Does this mean she felt disenchanted with the submissive role women in the Mormon church are allocated? And my next question: When she talks about how angels put names of people on her computer overnight, did she really believe this, was she pretending, or delusional? And does the audience really believe this -sorry- crap and think " oh, I wish I had such revelations", or are they also pretending to believe? It's just something I've been wondering because it's so nonsensical, and I can't fathom how anyone could listen to her and fall for it all, hook, line and sinker. Many thanks to anyone who takes the time to reply.
Also a nonmormon. My interest is in religions from an anthropological perspective. Mormonism, being a recent and still evolving religious movement, is particularly interesting to me. Lori, in referencing Heavenly Mother, is referring back to an older LDS doctrine which hasn't been officially disavowed, but is definitely no longer part of the core LDS theology is it is currently taught. In short, Heavenly Father has a wife - Heavenly Mother. He may in fact have many wives - it depends on which strand of Mormonism you are talking to. In any case, our spirits are the literal offspring of our Heavenly Parents. If you mention Heavenly Mother to members of the Utah LDS church, you will likely hear either that she is too sacred to discuss or that we really don't know very much about her. When the panel discusses how some people want more spiritually than they feel the LDS church is giving them, they are referring to both these older, half forgotten doctrines as well as teachings such as multiple probations which were never actually a part of LDS doctrine. I feel Lori 100% believes her stories. She is so invested in her beliefs that she was willing to sacrifice her children, after all. I cannot understand it from a personal perspective, but it isn't all that rare for people to be totally committed to bizarre and baseless beliefs. Hope this helps!
I don't think she was a very bright woman, myself. And what she was falling for, was something that had been warned of for many years by the LDS apostles and general authorities, don't engage in these types of meetings where they are teaching something different from what the church teaches. This man wrote some books, and developed a group, and the woman fell into this, because she was restless and wasn't getting along with her husband. It's ridiculous for anyone to have any belief in something so flimsy, it's like they develop their own ideas and beliefs about the Heavenly mother, which is there, but we don't have lessons on her, as they were doing. Thinking these 2 people had been married in other lives. lol That isn't LDS doctrine. What a sad, sad thing, this was over lust, getting rid of people and then having the person all to yourself, is what it amounts to. I think Lori was mentally ill and the new husband was not.
I see a strong resemblance between the delusions of Lori and Chad and the nonsensical word salad conspiracies of QANON MAGA Republicans. Do they really believe that or are they persuaded to believe it because their critical mass in some states make them powerful? It’s the Mormonification of American Culture. The libertarianism, the sexism, the anti-government ideology, the paranoia, treating people who don’t agree with you as possessed by evil spirits. Didn’t one of the most horrific instances of domestic terrorism take place in Utah at Mountain Meadows? It started in the burned over district of western NY and spread. The little man taking power into his own hands and starting a movement. It figured out ways to spread, adapt and thrive. And here we are. This case tells you everything there is to know about how to indoctrinate ordinary people with delusions of grandeur, appeal to their baser desires, corrupt their values, and make them do crazy things. And it all started with a con man. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Thank you for shining a light into the mormon and LDS culture, I’m really enjoying the learning opportunity. As a lifelong Irish Catholic and retired social worker, your program is a eye opener, not so different, when it comes to people stepping outside the box. What I found insightful, was Chad’s hurtful method of solving problems with Tammy is very much like his use of the word “pain”, when referring to the children and their current stage of darkness
I can't help but feel that Chad treated his wife, Tammy, like a commodity he bought and owned. Raising children, especially that many takes a team. I will leave it there....
Consider Tammy edited his work and supported the family while he wrote those horrible books. Chad was a creepy grave digger that had no problem burying those he could no longer use.
Loved the insights from Lauren, Mindy, and both Dr Johns in this video and the crossover between my interests in Mormon History and True Crime. Can’t wait for the rest of the series
I love when I meet kindred spirits. I’m equal parts fascinated in cult like religiosity and mans ability to commit heinous crimes. When you put them together, I would like to call it a dream case from a strictly academic perspective. I don’t want anyone to think I love the idea that man can be manipulated to do the unspeakable by another mans claim to have some Godlike special knowledge or authority over them. I think it’s my hatred and fear if those elements that draw me into its folds.
That just cracked me up when Julie said she had some unforeseen circumstance come up LOL I thought she could see everything were her angels taking a vacation
Having been very much into the, AVOW, prepper, NDE, craze during my 32 years as a member, I do think that Mormonism tends to creat these extremist, conspiracy theorist, end time mindsets, probably more than other Christian based backgrounds... But I guess fundamentalist Christianity can do a similar thing, with the end times, doomsday mindset. With the upbringing and background that I have, I believe Mormonism is creating some groups that could easily become radicalized.
They are my favorite Dynamic Duo. They make my workday (at the IRS no less) fly by. I really respect that Lauren is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and John is Lutheran. Good energy.
I find it interesting how mormonism is so different in Utah and the western areas of USA, in comparison to the ‘mission field’. I have never heard of any of the things spoken about on this channel, in the context presented. Been a member 33 years. An adult convert. The church here, where I live, is about the gospel, service, living in kindness to our neighbors, etc. It’s very strange to me. Feels like 2 different worlds in the same church. I listen with an open mind. 🙂 Thanks for what you are doing to help others.
Where you live doesn't change the BOA or BOM or resolve their historicity problems, though, and it certainly doesn't change the LDS church's doctrines. However, it might affect how LDS members apply them in their everyday lives.
I understand what your saying..I grew up in Idaho but since moved to the east coast. Members who r not from Utah or surrounding areas are so different. So refreshing cuz like first comment said they r more about love and service ❤️ it has been refreshing living out here.
I've lived in Utah 60 years as a mostly inactive Mormon. (I still use that name for the church.) This tendency for folks to go off on a tangent is not uncommon at all! In fact the church itself is an offshoot of Christianity. I've been agnostic for a long time, and feel that there's often a thin line between religiosity and insanity.
I have a close relative with schizophrenia and they are the only person I kmow who has had direct and to thrm very real religious experience with angels and devils and god/s. They were primed with Xianity before the illness really set in. Well except for the people I know who have done hallucinogens. The physical human mind is a fascinating and terrifying organ. And the himan drive to explain the mysteries of life and experience. Me I prefer science.
Exactly. Mormonism is just a tangent of Christianity. And Christianity was a tangent of Judaism. And Judaism was a tangent of Yahwism. And Yahwism was a tangent of the Canaanite Pantheon. Funny thing, religion 😏 So you have a religion founded by a guy who claims God sent an angel to help him find golden plates based on a religion founded by a guy who claimed to be the literal son of that same god based on a religion founded by a guy who claimed that same god talked to him by way of a burning bush based on a religion founded by people who decided that same god was the only god based on a religion founded by people who decided that same god was their favorite god based on a religion founded by people who decided that same god was nothing special, just one of their many gods and godesses
@@coyotelong4349 Yes!! If only people were required to take comparative religion classes with deep dives into monotheism. Also classes in the way cults operate. Maybe then we’d be better protected from whacky belief systems. I kinda get why back in a more superstitious world a person would declare themselves set apart by “god” to direct and lead others but what I don’t get is WHY in the 21st century people still choose to believe them.😩 My fellow humans never cease to fascinate, frustrate and sometimes truly freak me out. Chad, Lori and all the other characters in this tragedy have certainly proven how obscene humanity can get when it comes to radicalized religious beliefs.
Thank you Lauren for speaking for the victims and the community affected, where the Church never will, including pedophile priests or any crime connected to it and the prophetic shame and business of sin.
I agree completely! She would have ended up in the same situation had she been a part of any other religion! She made a deal with the devil and became the spawn of Satan. Delusions of Grandeur to the max! It takes that combination to mutilate and kill your own children and anybody else who dares not agree! However, I sure didn't like the whole "People from Idaho who are gullible and not smart. You know, like the farmers" comment was rude and uncalled for and I wondered if the last name was Biden. Don't complain with your mouth full!!!
Thanks for bringing this subject up, because the Mormon teachings has not only influenced the creation of the Chad and Lori cult, and their beliefs, and explains so much about where those seeds were first planted.
So excited y'all covered this! This case is so complex and wild, and Lauren & Dr. John are amazing on their TH-cam podcast! I didn't know their backstory ( ies). So cool!
I have been wondering when: (a) Mormon Stories would cover this case, and (b) when Lauren and Dr. John would be interviewed...Bingo!!! I am loving every minute of this. Thank you so much! ❤
I was raised in the evangelical church then attended a Foursquare church as as adult. There were lots of "tongues" and "words from the Lord". Crazy I'm now a content agnostic. I agree with Heather Daybell that I just don't know and what will be will be. Love is the most important thing. Why do humans make things so complicated?Love your show!!!!
Very good program. I think the detectives would do well to listen to this. I liked what John said about good people doing bad things requiring religion. If you add severe mental illness, you've really got a recipe for mayhem.
At the beginning I listened Mormon Stories for learning to understand spoken englisch :-) But actually I find them so informativ and exciting, I want to thank you for them. Stories from kind of parallell universe from the end of the world, strange, thrillining, I am from Germany ;-) Love Elissa!
Speaking of not getting enough attention as a child - Chad’s parents didn’t care about their children’ s comfort to eradicate the bed bugs in their house! That’s really horrible.
Wasn’t left behind a protestant-waiting for the rapture kind of series? I know a lot of Mormon literature but could be wrong. Doesn’t sound Mormon in origin to me.
I should have had 100 NDE according to his baffling definition of “nearly dying”! People do exactly what he described countless times every day and get out of the water and go do it again. How does anyone take him seriously?!
@@SLConnley I didn’t even think about that leg of his journey. I do wonder if someone will cause him to experience what JJ went through when they were ending his life. I think that might be justice for both Chad & Lori.
Julie Rowe is a scammer in my opinion. I definitely agree the church should say their names Tylee and JJ loud and clear. So sad . By the way,love your podcast!
If Chad had these 'near death experiences' and wasnt a mormon he wouldnt have had a veil to tear, which leads me to believe he's full of it, he's just morphed crap together, may i add, in my opinion....after his trial he may actually be on the path of a near death experience, mind you i'm not sure Idaho would carry out capitol punishment during Chad's current life.
My own Christian parents have told me to my face in the past year that following Jesus is more important than family. This is not something Christians would get upset that you're saying, they are proud of it.....and it's not only very hurtful, it's terrifying.
Her best gifts were her children and even her own life. She gave all of that up because she didn't know how to value life. Will her time to reflect behind bars gift her another chance? IDk but glad she has her entire life to find out. Society needs protection from both her and Chad.
I’m puzzled about how Lauren can continue being a mom Mormon with all the duplicity that has been revealed especially on the Mormon podcasts and it’s mysoginistic view of women.
@@ginaross6382 I've never been in any organization where everyone believed or loved or thought or interpreted exactly the same exactly way as everyone else. How can anyone belong to any religion, if you want to get right down to it? Look at our history of acts committed in the name of religion. Another example...this one will include you. The #2 industry worldwide is human trafficking which includes the statistics of sex trafficking of adults and children. We have more people living in slavery right now than ever in the recorded history of the world...not just because we have more people on the planet...but because the Percentage rate is greater. How can you call yourself a decent moral human being that respects life and not wake up every day trying to stop the enslavement of adults and children? Most people in slavery do not escape to freedom...they die. What does that say about your values?
@@GaryDoyle-fd3cf I am not defending anyone here as everyone is capable of speaking for themselves. I am just commenting that you aren't participating, you are trolling. So you have a username but you aren't a user...you are a troll. Life happens, right?
I just happened to have stumbled across this on TH-cam. Thank you for an excellent podcast! I'm excited to watch part 2. I have followed this case since day one. As an ex mormon this case has really hit home to me. It's been so interesting to hear all of your perspectives. I have often wondered this myself. How much of the church's theology has partially affected Chad and Lori's thinking. Even though I know it was to the extreme and way off. I know mainstream mormons don't practice this. Thank you Lauren for mentioning Tylee, and JJ. I often feel very angry that the church has not acknowledged them, or said anything against the craziness of these far extreme groups out there. I can't wait for Chad and Lori's trial and I pray justice is rendered for Tylee, JJ, Tammy and Charles!
Can anyone explain to me exactly what Chad Daybell and Julie Rowe consider Near Death Experiences ? I’ve heard them reference some of these NDE’s and it stood out to me that they didn’t seem to be too near death : No ambulances were called. Chad did receive some stitches. I can’t tell the difference between their NDE,s and daydreams. I was revived by paramedics came to surrounded by parame with heart monitor sticky pads all over my chest, etc. I don’t remember ( except for Chad’s stitches ) any mention of medical assistance being required. Thanks for educating me on their NDE’s.
Glad you are still with us! Right, there is no medical documentation for Chad's various NDEs and originally he wrote them as fiction. His affiliation with Julie Rowe caused him to realize that he could grow "his brand". Chad began to retell these NDE stories as real experiences.
So true. But I can say that the last 2 prophets have made a goal of stopping that. It is still very culturally ingrained, as it is in many “Christian” churches. There is a great book by David Clarke calling out Christian Therapists for their constant blame of women, and forgiving the summer and blaming the victims.
Yep they both are FOR-PROFIT entities that celebrate crass materialism and claim to show people how to amass personal power, status and wealth but their teachings are shrouded with the aura of religiosity which gives them some kind of supposed sanctity, validity and therefore a kind of metaphysical justification. Both cults were founded by gifters and are led to this day by charlatans and con artists. In addition both systems totally infantilize their followers and plunges them into utter dependency and bondage. Both systems denigrate sexuality and instill in believers a lot of shame -- yet also involve leaders who sexually exploit their followers. Scientology is less explicitly misogynistic. Both end up impoverishing their followers utterly and completely and on every level material, psychological and spiritual.
The more I learned about the Mormon religion the more I’m sure it’s a cult! The things that go on in Temple, for example. The control they have over their people, etc..
Ya, it’s not nice to point out, but it’s true. LDS is based on a non credible narrator. Joseph smith was a con artist. The church wasn’t persecuted, it was founded by a criminal who faced charges. And practicing polygamy was also criminal. Rejecting reality seems foundational to the LDS faith.
Do you suppose that he was schizophrenic? That he really did speak to “angels”? This phenomenon seems to be prevalent among certain groups and I believe in some cases they do hear voices. But then there are, for sure, out right cons.
@@lmrushing7375 what if it were a combination? it would mean Smith was experiencing schizophrenia as a teen and typically people experiencing this don't remain as organized in their thinking as they age. It would be interesting to see these characters undergo psychiatric evals today, wouldn't it? My bet would be a touch of manic-depressive and a creative bend. I've seen this combo make quite a few successful conmen.
You all are excellent! I also watch Hidden TC TH-cam channel:) I believe Chad would be the same master manipulator who uses his passive aggressive tactics to get what he wants without involving himself. With or without religion. He did a good job identifying the weak minded. That's one if his abilities I've been reading the texts between himself and Zulema. Its mind blowing how gullible she was. Just about every text was to the effect of Chad help I had a vision dark spirits were attacking me! I've had a headache all day! Please Chad Ok Zulema I have removed the dark spirits from you and cleared the house. Zulema Oh thank you Chad! My head is feeling better! You are wonderful! His texts and Melanie Gibbs police interviews make my blood boil. A con artists and a BS er. Thanks!
Thank you Lauren that was powerful. You brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for your compassion and laying the foundation of this podcast. Beautifully done!
I'm going through these videos now and it's kind of terrifying to me how much of this my parents were into. NDEs, white horse prophecy. I remember my parents talking about stakes in AZ having meetings requiring temple recommends and they totally thought that individual stakes were being called to go to the mountains or to Missouri. I've deconstructed a lot but the clip at 2:07:50 sounds SO MUCH like what my experience of Mormonism was like. Visions of future children, end-times prophecies. I even went to an energy healing event with my mom when I was a kid. I'm not sure what to think :/
Yeah I kind of thought this was regular Mormonism. Interesting to find out it’s an offshoot. I think far more people than we realize are into these ides. Thx for your comment, I’m not Mormon but am here for the conversation.
I am concerned about the Prepper movement because I have friends into this. Over time their mindset and ability to reason changes and the belief system begins to drift more fringe, more extreme. When I point about facts, they reject these. They are losing their ability to tell up from down. I feel the LDS needs to help this marginalized segment called Preppers. Sects are developing within Preppers that are being manipulated and exploited.
Just Googled Flaming Gorge- the highest cliff mentioned is approximately 50ft, not 60, so I'd assume fairly safely that he never jumped from that height, and most likely not from 50ft either. I like jumping off high diving boards, the height always looks much more than it actually is - its a huge thrill. But I'm doubtful of his story just for that alone.
I know Mormon's say they are the only true church of Jesus Christ, but I would venture to say that Mormonism is not part of true Christianity as the Mormon ten nets when you dig deep, go completely against scripture. It's more consistent with freemasonry, as Joseph Smith was also a freemason and wove many of the freemason beliefs and even symbolism into Mormonism itself. I mean the very fact that they set the book of Mormon and other works alongside of scripture goes against scripture which says not to add to or take away from scripture. The Mormon people are often wonderful people full of principle and morals, but a faith based on trying to do the right thing to go on and become gods of planets of their own. This defies scripture completely as Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
This was very informative. I chose to become a Humanist but do not judge my fellow man who choose to participate in one of the estimated 4,000+ religions that exist. This case is so sad and baffling as to how these these two (Lori & Chad) and those that assisted (Alex) and enabled them could destroy so many innocent and precious lives under the guise of their religion.
Righto. It seems to me that these kinds of things run deeper than religion, it goes to the core of the operation of our societies. Any culture that is big enough and has an undercurrent of punishment and brutality, of an unobtainable puritanism, whatever it may be, is going to put enough pressure on itself to start to crack at the seems and this is what squeezes out of the cracks. All kinds of "immoral" behavior because ordinary morality is impossible unless you forego actual human rights and needs and deny them for being "bad".
I'm back watching this yet again. At the start point of Chad's trial, now. I was nervous but I've gone back and looked at the evidence we have seen already, and I've luckily reminded myself that the evidence against Chad is damning and way worse than what there is against Lori. Chad was in sole charge of who was dark (or light). Chad named and decided who was a zombie, and the zombie's name and strength. Chad solely decided who was close to death percentages, when other's asked. Chad decided by himself if a zombie was cast out or not and if another came in. And it's all in his own words in texts and emails and written down. Chad text Lori that Tammy was now a zombie called Viola and that he 'didn't want to wait to have it removed.' I just re-read those texts about Tammy, I don't see how Chad can get around those awful messages.
I am a NeverMo, but have family in Teton, ID ( next door to Rexburg). We were there this past Memorial Day weekend. We touched on the subject, and the sadness on their faces was very apparent. They do a lot of temple work in the Rexburg temple, and I wonder if they ever crossed paths. That was never mentioned and I didn't ask.
Chad could never do what he did without the fundamental principles within the LDS religion! He absolutely took advantage of the basis of the entire religion.. and perverted it. The belief that you can get visions from Jesus and become a prophet… anyone who wasent indoctrinated in this religion sees ALL OF IT as the insanity that it is.
Lauren's point on 2:45 is powerful at is calls out the Mormon Church for not addressing things. I'm not Mormon so I don't know that anything has changed in the year since this video was posted. But as to why the Mormon Church isn't addressing the victims by name is the same reason that the Catholic Church hasn't effectively dealt with the fact that millions of children have been sexually abused. They can't say anything because they would have to admit they had a part in things.
I feel that the LDS church has to shoulder the responsibility of this end days scenario that's taught in there doctrine and the repercussion of it. I remember as a kid growing up feeling like to a point what the point of planning a future. Being g told by my parents that the second coming would happen in my life time. All the good and bad of it, and as a kid the bad weighed heavy on the scale. It took a lot of years to move passed that even though I left the church as a teenager deep in my thinking the fear of it ending during my lifetime was there. Because of end of day and being prepared for it, as a young man dictated many choices I made. Thank God I did move on from it but I can see how people can let themselves become victims of teachings. For me now any organized religion has very dangerous elements and I can't believe they truly serve humanity. Even if it may seem so on their surface.
You know it's funny with Donny and Marie Marie ft her work ahead of her son the one who killed himself. But donny I think has had one strong marriage in any case Palmyra New York used to have this Festival every year the Hill Cumorah Pageant and I think Donnie performed there the last year they had it. . Sometime during covid-19 it ended for good BUT the Mormons were run out of the entire state of New York and they KEPT going west so I too think about latter Day Saints and The Osmonds when I think about Palmyra New York
Marie came out about the sexual abuse she experienced as a child in LDS after she fell into deep depression as an adult. I will never forget that interview she and Donnie did of Brooke Shields decades ago. Marie was on antidepressants and the side effects had left her not her crisp usual self. Marie slower's response time annoyed Brooke who was snappy and a bit rude to Marie. Years later Brooke experienced post partum depression and talked about going on medication. I always wondered if her own experience made her think back to question that time she shared with Marie. Brooke was considered brave for speaking up about "the baby blues". Marie was exceptionally brave for speaking about csa coming from the LDS or any religious background. At the time, what Marie chose to do was practically unheard of...kudos to her.
As an evangelical Christian I can tell you unequivocally that our beliefs do not jibe with Mormon teachings in any way. While a believer of Jesus can receive a personal revelation from their reading of the Bible, through prayer, and sometimes through other believers, we do not believe the Bible is incomplete and needs further revelation from anyone else, for the writing or revising of scripture. The Bible is the inerrant Word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit. The personal revelation we receive MUST agree with scripture. It has to line up with the Holy Bible. It is edifying, not condemning. We believe in miracles. We believe in a second coming of Christ, but as Jesus said, “no man knows the day or the hour”. Matthew 24:36. We do believe Revelation, the last book of the Bible, written by John. There are signs of the end times, but we are to be working, spreading the Gospel, growing in our relationship with Jesus and with people…not waiting around for the end times. Christians are split about the rapture. But it isn’t a hill to die on; this doctrine has nothing to do with salvation. Salvation depends on calling on the Name of Jesus, believing He died for our sins and was resurrected. We believe in repentance, turning away from our sins. We turn away by the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit. We believe baptism is an outward sign of publicly acknowledging our new found life in Jesus, but is NOT necessary for salvation. We do not believe in reincarnation. No one is equal to Jesus except God the Father and the Holy Spirit which was given after Jesus was ascended back to heaven…for our guidance and for our Comforter amongst other things. I could go on and on, but I’m here to listen and learn about the DaybelI case. I esp love HTC channel and that’s essentially why I’m here. Love Dr John and Laura.
Just because you have an NDE, it doesn't necessarily make you “special” or give you “powers”. Many have this experience, it deepens their faith, but they don't develop “powers”.
Thanks for all your contributions. It has shed much light on some of the things I was wondering about not being LDS and following Lori Daybell’s trial. Mostly about the preparation conferences, which didn’t seem to me would be apart of the LDS church (but I don’t know tons). And to better understand some of the names mentioned like Nephi.
Martin Luther knew through the Bible that everyone can go straight to God, man does not need a intercessor. I’m sickened by the blasphemy of Chad an Lori an twisting of scripture. 1:03:46 All of things John talks about, crystals ect, new age stuff none of it is if God.
The church has a spectrum of "exits" some are more to the "right" and others more to the "left". It's great that mormon stories examines as much of the range as possible.
Thoroughly enjoyed this podcast. My first knowledge of "all this" is with Nate Eatons' riveting interview of MG. Now, I see that same interview and wonder what was truly going on between MG and LVD. I recently visited the church building where they attended. Who would have ever suspected?
I have cognitive disonance watching Lauren still being Morman after being married to Doctor John and being on MSP and not get defensive about how out there Morman beliefs are. when stated simply.
Sharing of near death experiences, "I had this spiritual experience/vision" story sharing with others, is integral to the Mormonism I knew and know. It is the lingua franca of the Mormons, and it makes every member since 1830 have at least one leg in the magic circle of Joseph Smith's treasure digging gang. A nemo once observed to me, "Mormons seem competitive about their spiritual/religious experiences". Hiram Page lives on in it all.
I had a near death experience on Christmas Eve 2019 when I was thrown into a concrete wall from a moving vehicle. I have blacked it out. My only memory is before and after and through some flashbacks. I am skeptical of these stories of going to the gates of Heaven and deciding to come back. I think of it as a dream state where the brain is working through the trauma. I expressly told the hospital to not allow any member of the LDS Church to come into my room and no blessings
@@dianethulin1700 very glad you survived and recovered. It seems like only a subset of NDEs get promoted and grab attention among believers/members. Naturalistic brain trauma/O2 deprivation make a lot more sense.
@@JC-vq2cs Thank you for your good wishes! Not a day goes by that I don't think of it but I am getting stronger every day. It's so hard to get therapy with Covid but have a co-worker who I can talk to who also had a bad accident. It has made me view trauma and mortality differently. I also had an allergy to pain meds and went through liver failure. At no time did I want to rejoin the church or fear I could go to hell. The brain is capable of letting us believe what we want to
Strange I've been a member of the church for 20 plus years and I've never heard a near-death experience from any of the members before Chad daybell. I did have a near-death experience but have never told anyone because I felt it was private and it was many many years ago when I became very ill and was not expected to live. Never related it to my faith at all so was not a big deal
Just to add I come from New England in a very famous university area and many going for their MDS and Phds that are LDS also attend that University. It could be that it is a difference in culture with these particular people that I don't hear such stories. They're pretty down to earth and most are in The sciences so probably don't get off on these tangents.
Julie Rowe can ‘see everything.’ She can see the future. She can see the past. Yet she defended Chad Daybell initially. Apparently she wasn’t able to see what happened to Tylee, JJ or Tammy.
I was a young teenager when my dad got really wrapped up into Julie Rowe. It was to the point that we’d have FHE discussions about her books and the second coming. It really unnerved me. I was so convinced it was true that I even planned to become a nurse only because I felt that was one of the only professions that would be useful in the apocalypse. I wonder what other ambitions I would have had had I not been convinced the world was going to end within my lifetime. Although I am not fully out of the church, I’d like to say thank you to Mormon stories podcast for shedding light on this. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for sharing your story ❤ I think about those things too - what if I chose the “blue pill.”
😱
Very sad that people like your father are damaging their children.😢
I'm not mormon..but do not trust the elite rich...running the farse of supposed caring 😂 false flag..we support a government..and/or church...while in today's time..purposely...do evil..where maybe Joseph was a man..wanting to and think more...yet, not perfect...compared to those ruling banks...why doesn't anyone ever bring up the non...govt...federal reserve....BUT not one person is taught about or threatened/destroyed/disappear....bringing up the truth.
These people or con artists are not the church!
As a non Mormon, I must say that Chad Daybell’s NDE is no more fantastical than the story of Joeseph Smith’s experience.
I have been thinking the same thing. No more strange at all.
how thoroughly unimaginative though - imagine god picking someone called ‘joseph smith’ to be his prophet lol
Couldn't agree more, that whole so called religion is nothing more than a cult....
It’s all strange
Hi
A
Lauren and Dr. John are one of the most credible duos on the True Crime channels. This is my first time on Mormon Stories Podcast and John and Mindy were very genuine and honest. I’m not a Mormon so interesting to learn a few things.
My first time on here too, and I am lds. I expected it would be an unobjective bashing session that I would just have to turn off when I got fed up with the one sidedness. But it was actually pretty objective and insightful, which I respect and appreciate.
and i wouldn’t go anywhere near the false Morman religion ! IT IS NOT BIBLE BASED
I find his analyses of different criminals and victims enlightening and fascinating.
This was great. I love seeing Dr. John Matthias speaking out and not being so camera shy. I know he doesn’t care for it much but he has such valuable insight.
Dr. John and Lauren Matthias are phenomenal. Thank you for having them on.
I've been waiting forever for Mormon Stories to cover the Vallow/Daybell story. Having Hidden True Crime on to discuss the case is icing on the cake.
Wow.....what an episode. I was lucky enough to listen in live (in the wee dark hours of early morning here in Australia). No words can describe this case of Vallow/Daybell. I happened to stumble across the Court.TV channel on TH-cam a couple of years ago, just as this case broke, and have been hooked ever since. Actually, it was this case that bought me too Mormon Stories, as being an atheist, I was keen to find out the religious background of these two. What a rabbit hole it has turned out to be......I'm now a huge fan of John D and Carah!!........can't wait for part two!!!
Hello from Sydney! I tuned in just after dawn here
I got to MS a different route but as a fellow atheist and #NeverMo I am way down that rabbit hole too!
Chad Daybell has the natural charisma of a salamander.
I know!!!! How anyone followed him is truly beyond me.
He reminds me of Warren Jeffs
What did a salamander ever do to you???😂😂😂
@@d.m.6397 you’re right. I was unfair to salamanders. I see that now. My apologies. 😂
@@MxPx77 Google Axolotl. So cute!
Lauren, as a Catholic your statements on the Church being there for Tylee is exactly how I feel with the Catholic church and the horror of the sexual abuse of women and children. My belief currently is that the Church is a money making venture operating under the guise of Christianity and preying on people's guilt and their strong belief in tithing their 10%. Whatever keeps the $$ coming in. It's left me church-less, but I would rather be afloat on my own than supporting or appearing that I condone violence and SA of primarily women & children.
“Church” according to the Bible is the body of believers only not a building or “organized religion”! Christ was not about “religion” and it’s man-made institutions, rules and regulations. Definitely not doctrines. I was brought up Baptist and now go to no church. Jesus said where two or more are gathered in my name there am I also. THATS having “church” His church meeting together.
@@sharronpettis384 Amen!!!
@@sharronpettis384 also many churches will lead you astray. I just read scriptures, keep my Faith very known and pray. I talk to God all day every day.
@@sharronpettis384 Happy for you!! We don’t need an intercessor too Jesus/ God. That’s why the Temple cloth into the Holies of Holies was ripped top to the bottom when Jesus Died in the cross. Most ppl don’t know that, that cloth was very thick like 12 cm or so, of course hand woven no way it just fell apart. Opening up the way too Christ too everyone. Raised Baptist an now just believe the Bible an the Word. I believe we are in a much better place.
You're right. They're corporations that worship the almighty dollar. While being tax exempt. When the members commit crimes they cover it up to protect their reputation and $$$!
I appreciated Lauren's words at the end, which were full of compassion and humanity. Shame on the Mormon church for protecting its assets and reputation rather than extending love and support to a hurting community.
Thanks you Lauren and Dr John, for sending the link to this podcast.... The four of you worked so well together in bringing this to us and explaining so much more... Truly excellent. Chad seemed to have lived in the shadows of his brothers and possibly had no sense of himself until he linked in with Julie Rowe.... His confidence was nill and slowly but surely gained popularity when writing his books... As you pointed out the books got more attention because of his "near death experience" he needed something that drew people in.... That also got Lories attention and unfortunately became a devastating situation.... Justice for all the victims of this dreadful case... Regards from Ireland 🇮🇪
Amazing what you can get away with and how long you can get away with it as long as you speak the right language, have the right haircut, wear the right color of shirt, pay the recommended amount, and otherwise represent as being "active" in every OSTENSIBLE and OUTWARD way.
🎯
Yes, it blows my mind. I also think they took advantage of doing their deeds in different states and towns. A "natural death" in one state and "self-defense killing" in another isn't going to seem odd or even have any dots to connect, but if the same key players started showing up in these incidents within one town or a specific area, cops are going to get suspicious. It's scary to think that if Lori hadn't been so sloppy with Charles' Amazon account and using the Jeep to try to shoot Brandon, they might still be getting away with it. Heck, if they had just stopped with Charles and Tammy people probably wouldn't have connected it all. But, as usual, greed and lust won out.
You are absolutely correct, in my opinion! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Wow, yeah… That’s a good point, very chilling observation.
I currently live down the road from where these kids were buried and it's devastating. I was LDS until the age of 17 and their actions are not of the church. Murder, adultery and all things that drive that like lust and greed are not how the LDS people live. However they took things from the church and tried to use many of the LDS beliefs as a way to justify the evil they were doing... Basically the church can't be blamed directly but they should not ignore that these people drug the church through their dramatic evil deeds. Bless these poor kids and bless Kay and Larry who opened this case open with their pure love for JJ. Xo
Perfectly stated
This is very sad
The average Mormon lives a decent upstanding life because most people WANT to lead a decent upstanding life. The Mormon church, the religion itself, is a false cult founded by con men for personal gain. Period. That’s beyond provable. It’s overwhelming.
Not a Mormon but but sickens me how Chad an Lori twisted scripture. They let the Devil slip right into their lives.
What I’ve been so curious about is when people say they twisted scripture is it the Book of Mormon theyre talking about or the Bible? Because Joseph smith totally contradicted the Bible. In this terrible tragedy Lori and Chad often quote Nehi from the Book of Mormon. I guess it’s probably both. You’re absolutely right Miss Lacee. The LDS church and any other church beliefs are dragged through the mud. And this bunch are certainly not the first to create their own cult twisting truth to suit their own power driven evil desires.
Thank you Lauren! Your words of tribute to the children brought tears. It is baffling that the church refuses to address this horrific tragedy. "Say their names." May they forever rest in peace. 💜💜
People in LDS seem afraid to speak.
This tells me the LDS is a cult.
It's followers are afraid to speak in the face of what is to me (as an outsider looking in) sheer evil. Their silence implies complicity in what has happened.
Ignoring it and letting it run its natural cause is normal for any church. By not acknowledging the problem they can turn their backs on it as if it has nothing to do with them. It almost always works.
We need to start a movement (post the victims’ faces and “Say My Name.”) spread it among LDS .
They excommunicated Chad. What are you looking for? The church doesn’t teach Chad Daybell’s craziness and purposely teaches against it.
@@yogaby The least they could do is make a statement concerning this cult. There were a lot more ppl in the LDS sucked into Chads delusions than Lori. By not speaking out it seems the LDS is accepting of the craziness.
Mindy is a great co-host. I am a never Mo, but growing up in Arizona I am surrounded by Mormons. I decided in High School that Mormonism was a cult. The Bible in Galations book 1 warns us against those that preach another gospel. Dr. John Dehlin and his guests have taught me a lot about the Mormon experience.
You're absolutely right. If you're not their kind (Mormon) they look down at you. The Book of Mormons is a big give away. Revelation 22:10 versus 18-19 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book (The Bible) If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plaques described in this book, (The Bible) and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this book. (The Bible).
Why are you guys still worried about what a silly book of myths says? The Book of Mormon is no more ridiculous than the Bible or Harry Potter.
@@Cindy-up2oj
,
@@Richard.Atkinson Richard the Bible is Basic Instructions Before leaving Earth!
@cindy at this point all of these main churches (baptists, evangelist, born-again, Jehovas witness, Catholic, etc) are a cult….
My mom used her near death experience to control and manipulate me and my brothers when we were young… “God saved my life so you better listen to me…” it was painful.
I’m sorry you had to go through that.
After following this daybell story I won’t listen to anyone who says
They had a near death experience. That’s a bunch of bs
Horrible way to treat a child, I'm sorry!
I have an Aunt and Uncle, she converted to Mormon as a college student in the 60’s, eventually converting one of my cousins (from another of my Dads VERY non-religious sisters. My late father, who died a few years ago at age 94, his younger sister who converted to LDS was over 20 years younger and we used to call his family “Heinz 57 varieties” because they all went in far different directions). My cousin, who I became close to when she and her own large family moved to my hometown-and had children the same age as mine; used to listen to me and my kids talk about my VERY active dream-life, trying to get me to read books by Mormons about visions and NDE’s…so, from everything she would tell me back in the 90’s, I assume she’s also branched into this strange belief system of NDE’s and visions. We used to talk about how my post-apocalyptic dreams had ties to reality…but my cousin took that as signs they were visions from God, NOT just my subconscious bringing up fears and themes from books I’d read or movies I’d seen. I mistakenly gave her a story I wrote after a very strange dream when I was just 16…(also post-apocalyptic, I was fascinated with volcanoes as a child and had this dream after reading Nevil Shutes One the Beach and Pat Frank’s Alas Babylon..it was the height of the Cold War & we had neighbors building nuclear shelters). While it NEVER occurred to me that this dream could actually be a “vision” of the future-or past; my cousin read this strange story from my dream, and took it as a vision from God. In recent years, both my aunt and cousin have called me asking whether I have seen/dreamt any new dreams and written them down. I’ve had plenty of crazy dreams, but rarely write them down like I did years ago.
I recognize the difference between fact and fiction, dreams from my subconscious and “visions”. What is it with the LDS church where they seem to confuse these concepts? I also have done a lot of research in recent years into the Q-Cult, and found quite a few LDS folks into it, with the same issues of folks unable to discern between fact,fiction and faith beliefs.
Just for the record-I retired from the Catholic Church over 40 years ago, never really believing what I’d been taught, view myself as an agnostic. I went into medicine and research at a young age, believe what I can see, feel or hear myself, or prove through the scientific method. I find ancient Eastern philosophies more believable than modern Western “religions” and absolutely hate what frauds and grifters have done to organized religions over the years-for power and greed. I also believe in a strict delineation between church and state in our country…something that has obviously fallen apart.
Some people call their own thoughts "voices in their head" as a way of not taking responsibility for their own thoughts and actions. It's a scam. Ignorant people fall for it.
@@eleanoraquitaine2966 Ignorant people think they'll never fall for it. Be careful when you think you stand, less you fall!
❤
Sorry you are agnostic. You miss out on so much. The Bible is the best book in the world and you should study it as you sound like an intelligent person. I do believe that we are living in the tend times but based strictly on Revelations and not visions or dreams. Mormons have always believed in them and that religion attracted people who fall for that as they have revised their history many times based on their visions and dreams. Whatever they need to do they just conveniently have a revelation so they can change it. Never understood how people could believe what they preach as they talk about the Bible but only adhere to the Book of Mormon.
@@helenussery4756 It's a cult, and a dark one. Mormons are the nicest people - but the LDS religion is frightening, and even evil when you get deeper into it. And they are dishonest. They never tell you what they truly believe upfront - they see this deception as "beneficial" for converts, otherwise no one would ever join!
Is it just me or does Denver Snuffer sound like a serial killer nickname? I'm waiting for a Netflix doc
There is a multi episode documentary on CNN I think: Doomsday something. It was available On Demand. It’s really good, it focuses on the perspectives of Kay Woodcock & her husband . They were JJs paternal grandparents.
He snufs out people in the Denver area. Does it sound like a descriptive
Exactly!!!!
Magical thinking combined with narcissism is a helluva drug and, apparently, potentially quite dangerous.
ETA: On second thought, it could be something like non-reality-based thinking rising to the level of a grandiose delusion, spurred on by magical thinking.
Sounds like you’re talking about Joseph Smith
@@coyotelong4349 If the shoe fits.
I can't speak nearly so grand. My sense of these declarations is that you hear someone like Chad and you figure it might be true. But it probably isn't. So you concoct an event that makes you a little more important. After you tell it a few times it becomes part of you. This goes through your acquaintances with each susceptible person creating a grander experience until it gets to a nut job like Lori. It begins with a false prophet and ends with a person entitled to execute or smite the disobedient.
@@nadzach Nailed it, Z!
That explains Trump 😝
This (for me) is the culmination of all the pods I've been following - re Chad Lori, LDS, conspiracy theories, and what the church will do about it... THANK YOU love your style John D. Though not a member - I've come to be nourished by your content daily, and will contribute from now on
Omg same! I shat and fell in it when this was posted!!!!!
Don’t see how Lauren can believe in Mormon prophet Joseph smith and teachings and yet debunks chad Daybell prophecies. They are both charlatans . Same bolt of cloth, I would expect more from an investigative reporter. How does Dr. John abide her weird beliefs?
Yes!! All my favorite things in one!! Attachment theory included!
Why are you blaming Mormonism? There is nothing Lori claimed or had been accused of that isn't also in the Christian / Hebrew Bible.
@@phillipstroll7385 Hmmn? Are you directing this question to me? Or MS, John Dehlin? ~ They're more qualified to address the differences between JS's translations and traditional texts.
Chad is the oldest.
"Matt [Daybell] and his wife, Heather, have lived in the Rexburg area for more than 15 years. *Chad Daybell is his oldest brother,* and Matt says they have not directly spoken to each other since Tammy Daybell’s memorial service in Rexburg on Oct. 23, 2019."
As a non-Mormon and a non- theist, the information presented here is fascinating. I'm down the proverbial rabbit hole and thoroughly enjoying the ride. Thanks!
SO delighted Mormon Stories is discussing this at last, and I have two burning questions, prefaced with the fact that I'm not ex-LDS, not even heavily religious but like Dr John grew up as a Lutheran- Zwingli Protestant.
Here goes:
Listening to Lori ramble on in her monologue during thst recorded meeting, she talks about the Mother [in heaven] About being a strong woman, a warrior.
Does this mean she felt disenchanted with the submissive role women in the Mormon church are allocated?
And my next question:
When she talks about how angels put names of people on her computer overnight, did she really believe this, was she pretending, or delusional? And does the audience really believe this -sorry- crap and think " oh, I wish I had such revelations", or are they also pretending to believe?
It's just something I've been wondering because it's so nonsensical, and I can't fathom how anyone could listen to her and fall for it all, hook, line and sinker.
Many thanks to anyone who takes the time to reply.
Also a nonmormon. My interest is in religions from an anthropological perspective. Mormonism, being a recent and still evolving religious movement, is particularly interesting to me.
Lori, in referencing Heavenly Mother, is referring back to an older LDS doctrine which hasn't been officially disavowed, but is definitely no longer part of the core LDS theology is it is currently taught. In short, Heavenly Father has a wife - Heavenly Mother. He may in fact have many wives - it depends on which strand of Mormonism you are talking to. In any case, our spirits are the literal offspring of our Heavenly Parents. If you mention Heavenly Mother to members of the Utah LDS church, you will likely hear either that she is too sacred to discuss or that we really don't know very much about her.
When the panel discusses how some people want more spiritually than they feel the LDS church is giving them, they are referring to both these older, half forgotten doctrines as well as teachings such as multiple probations which were never actually a part of LDS doctrine.
I feel Lori 100% believes her stories. She is so invested in her beliefs that she was willing to sacrifice her children, after all. I cannot understand it from a personal perspective, but it isn't all that rare for people to be totally committed to bizarre and baseless beliefs.
Hope this helps!
@@hippiedachshunds1632 the Korean Christian sect World Mission Society Church of God has a ‘living’ Mother on earth.
I don't think she was a very bright woman, myself. And what she was falling for, was something that had been warned of for many years by the LDS apostles and general authorities, don't engage in these types of meetings where they are teaching something different from what the church teaches. This man wrote some books, and developed a group, and the woman fell into this, because she was restless and wasn't getting along with her husband. It's ridiculous for anyone to have any belief in something so flimsy, it's like they develop their own ideas and beliefs about the Heavenly mother, which is there, but we don't have lessons on her, as they were doing. Thinking these 2 people had been married in other lives. lol That isn't LDS doctrine. What a sad, sad thing, this was over lust, getting rid of people and then having the person all to yourself, is what it amounts to. I think Lori was mentally ill and the new husband was not.
@@donnavaughn9409 I have great problems and not enough imagination to see Chad as someone to ‘lust’ after 😅 Chad the chick magnet 🐥
I see a strong resemblance between the delusions of Lori and Chad and the nonsensical word salad conspiracies of QANON MAGA Republicans. Do they really believe that or are they persuaded to believe it because their critical mass in some states make them powerful?
It’s the Mormonification of American Culture. The libertarianism, the sexism, the anti-government ideology, the paranoia, treating people who don’t agree with you as possessed by evil spirits.
Didn’t one of the most horrific instances of domestic terrorism take place in Utah at Mountain Meadows? It started in the burned over district of western NY and spread. The little man taking power into his own hands and starting a movement. It figured out ways to spread, adapt and thrive. And here we are. This case tells you everything there is to know about how to indoctrinate ordinary people with delusions of grandeur, appeal to their baser desires, corrupt their values, and make them do crazy things.
And it all started with a con man. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Thank you for shining a light into the mormon and LDS culture, I’m really enjoying the learning opportunity. As a lifelong Irish Catholic and retired social worker, your program is a eye opener, not so different, when it comes to people stepping outside the box.
What I found insightful, was Chad’s hurtful method of solving problems with Tammy is very much like his use of the word “pain”, when referring to the children and their current stage of darkness
I think that Chad felt inferior to Tammy. And when Lori came along she was like some deifying groupie that bolstered his sense of self.
That may be. Why then did he kill her..indirectly / directly ?
@@ScotchIrishTarheel thanks for trying to take one for the team
@@kelliintexas3575 Well, let's not underestimate Chad's financial benefit from Tammy's murder. Chad needed money to fiance his new life with Lori.
I can't help but feel that Chad treated his wife, Tammy, like a commodity he bought and owned. Raising children, especially that many takes a team. I will leave it there....
Consider Tammy edited his work and supported the family while he wrote those horrible books. Chad was a creepy grave digger that had no problem burying those he could no longer use.
The Mormon Church has historically treated women and children as the property of their husbands and fathers.
Most excellent discussion and very timely weaving the LDS influence and the highly publicized Daybell/Vallow case.
Loved the insights from Lauren, Mindy, and both Dr Johns in this video and the crossover between my interests in Mormon History and True Crime. Can’t wait for the rest of the series
Yes! I'm here for the crossover between my special interests!
I love when I meet kindred spirits. I’m equal parts fascinated in cult like religiosity and mans ability to commit heinous crimes. When you put them together, I would like to call it a dream case from a strictly academic perspective. I don’t want anyone to think I love the idea that man can be manipulated to do the unspeakable by another mans claim to have some Godlike special knowledge or authority over them. I think it’s my hatred and fear if those elements that draw me into its folds.
@@nmikloiche Did you read my soul? Lol. That’s me in a nutshell. Nice to meet you.
That just cracked me up when Julie said she had some unforeseen circumstance come up LOL I thought she could see everything were her angels taking a vacation
@@StuftBanana LOl, something that wouldn't happen since pork chops are scripturally declared unclean.
@@brendakauffman2222so pork chops are the only thing you are objecting? You are good with whole veil-Jesus-dinner thing? Lol
Having been very much into the, AVOW, prepper, NDE, craze during my 32 years as a member, I do think that Mormonism tends to creat these extremist, conspiracy theorist, end time mindsets, probably more than other Christian based backgrounds... But I guess fundamentalist Christianity can do a similar thing, with the end times, doomsday mindset.
With the upbringing and background that I have, I believe Mormonism is creating some groups that could easily become radicalized.
Yes, and very well said.
Just binged 10 episodes of Lauren and Dr. John’s podcast. It’s amazing.
They are my favorite Dynamic Duo. They make my workday (at the IRS no less) fly by. I really respect that Lauren is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and John is Lutheran. Good energy.
I find it interesting how mormonism is so different in Utah and the western areas of USA, in comparison to the ‘mission field’. I have never heard of any of the things spoken about on this channel, in the context presented. Been a member 33 years. An adult convert. The church here, where I live, is about the gospel, service, living in kindness to our neighbors, etc. It’s very strange to me. Feels like 2 different worlds in the same church. I listen with an open mind. 🙂 Thanks for what you are doing to help others.
Have you read the book of Mormon, the Docteine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price? Cause this stuff is all in the scriptures.
The Pearl of great Price alone reads like a fever dream.
Where you live doesn't change the BOA or BOM or resolve their historicity problems, though, and it certainly doesn't change the LDS church's doctrines. However, it might affect how LDS members apply them in their everyday lives.
I understand what your saying..I grew up in Idaho but since moved to the east coast. Members who r not from Utah or surrounding areas are so different. So refreshing cuz like first comment said they r more about love and service ❤️ it has been refreshing living out here.
Hi @@taylorcampbell4067. Not sure what you mean by your comment.
I've lived in Utah 60 years as a mostly inactive Mormon. (I still use that name for the church.) This tendency for folks to go off on a tangent is not uncommon at all! In fact the church itself is an offshoot of Christianity. I've been agnostic for a long time, and feel that there's often a thin line between religiosity and insanity.
I have a close relative with schizophrenia and they are the only person I kmow who has had direct and to thrm very real religious experience with angels and devils and god/s. They were primed with Xianity before the illness really set in. Well except for the people I know who have done hallucinogens. The physical human mind is a fascinating and terrifying organ. And the himan drive to explain the mysteries of life and experience. Me I prefer science.
@@JC-vq2cs
Here! Here! Exactly my thoughts as well.
Exactly. Mormonism is just a tangent of Christianity.
And Christianity was a tangent of Judaism.
And Judaism was a tangent of Yahwism.
And Yahwism was a tangent of the Canaanite Pantheon.
Funny thing, religion 😏
So you have a religion founded by a guy who claims God sent an angel to help him find golden plates based on a religion founded by a guy who claimed to be the literal son of that same god based on a religion founded by a guy who claimed that same god talked to him by way of a burning bush based on a religion founded by people who decided that same god was the only god based on a religion founded by people who decided that same god was their favorite god based on a religion founded by people who decided that same god was nothing special, just one of their many gods and godesses
@@coyotelong4349
Yes!! If only people were required to take comparative religion classes with deep dives into monotheism. Also classes in the way cults operate. Maybe then we’d be better protected from whacky belief systems. I kinda get why back in a more superstitious world a person would declare themselves set apart by “god” to direct and lead others but what I don’t get is WHY in the 21st century people still choose to believe them.😩 My fellow humans never cease to fascinate, frustrate and sometimes truly freak me out. Chad, Lori and all the other characters in this tragedy have certainly proven how obscene humanity can get when it comes to radicalized religious beliefs.
Christianity is no where near this case. This was pure and simple cult-like practices.
I just absolutely love Lauren. She’s just a very sincere and really decent good person.
Agreed. Lauren is lovely. Sending love to you all from a Granny in Ireland. ❤️
I agree too! And her summary of the case was informative and so well done even when alive followed the trial daily! a beautiful couple! ❤
I've shared this in a Vallow crime group 👌🏼 you've provided an excellent dissection of incredibly complex ideas. Great work.
Thank you Lauren for speaking for the victims and the community affected, where the Church never will, including pedophile priests or any crime connected to it and the prophetic shame and business of sin.
At the base of it all, “Narcissism”
Also at the base of it all, a cult. I see this along the lines of Jim Jones.
I agree completely! She would have ended up in the same situation had she been a part of any other religion! She made a deal with the devil and became the spawn of Satan. Delusions of Grandeur to the max! It takes that combination to mutilate and kill your own children and anybody else who dares not agree! However, I sure didn't like the whole "People from Idaho who are gullible and not smart. You know, like the farmers" comment was rude and uncalled for and I wondered if the last name was Biden. Don't complain with your mouth full!!!
Boom
Loved this podcast! Best pannel possible to tackle this case from all angles. Thank you for this work. Can't wait for part 2.
Thanks for bringing this subject up, because the Mormon teachings has not only influenced the creation of the Chad and Lori cult, and their beliefs, and explains so much about where those seeds were first planted.
I been waiting for someone to look at the morman scripture and show how it isn’t a super wild leap from that to where they got.
I love the dynamic of this panel. Secular psychology, LDS journalist, etc. very insightful y’all.
So excited y'all covered this! This case is so complex and wild, and Lauren & Dr. John are amazing on their TH-cam podcast! I didn't know their backstory ( ies). So cool!
I have been wondering when: (a) Mormon Stories would cover this case, and (b) when Lauren and Dr. John would be interviewed...Bingo!!! I am loving every minute of this. Thank you so much! ❤
I was raised in the evangelical church then attended a Foursquare church as as adult. There were lots of "tongues" and "words from the Lord". Crazy I'm now a content agnostic. I agree with Heather Daybell that I just don't know and what will be will be. Love is the most important thing. Why do humans make things so complicated?Love your show!!!!
Very good program. I think the detectives would do well to listen to this. I liked what John said about good people doing bad things requiring religion. If you add severe mental illness, you've really got a recipe for mayhem.
Drink every time John Dehlin says “I love it”
At the beginning I listened Mormon Stories for learning to understand spoken englisch :-) But actually I find them so informativ and exciting, I want to thank you for them. Stories from kind of parallell universe from the end of the world, strange, thrillining, I am from Germany ;-) Love Elissa!
I appreciate you all. Tks so much John, Mindy, Dr John & Lauren 🫶
Speaking of not getting enough attention as a child - Chad’s parents didn’t care about their children’ s comfort to eradicate the bed bugs in their house! That’s really horrible.
Left Behind is the name of the series and they were terrifying and they set horrifying thoughts in my mind since I was 8.
Wasn’t left behind a protestant-waiting for the rapture kind of series? I know a lot of Mormon literature but could be wrong. Doesn’t sound Mormon in origin to me.
@@nancyjohnson8642 yes Left Behind is an evangelical series of books not a Mormon series.
The worse. But they are fiction .
Every prophesy in the Bible has been proven by scientists , over 100 I believe, to have come to fruition!
Nope. Not true
Omg Chad Daybells near death experience is ridiculous 😂 apparently if he gets scared it’s a dear death experience lol.
I should have had 100 NDE according to his baffling definition of “nearly dying”! People do exactly what he described countless times every day and get out of the water and go do it again. How does anyone take him seriously?!
I think he’ll have the opportunity to experience “near-death” when his case is resolved. I’d love to hear what he has to say about the subject the .😒
@@TalLeGal I’m
Sure he will have at least a couple actual near death experiences in prison.
@@SLConnley I didn’t even think about that leg of his journey. I do wonder if someone will cause him to experience what JJ went through when they were ending his life. I think that might be justice for both Chad & Lori.
@slconley1917 turns out Lori's is just as insane. Epidurals are now NDE's. 🙄
Julie Rowe is a scammer in my opinion. I definitely agree the church should say their names Tylee and JJ loud and clear. So sad . By the way,love your podcast!
If Chad had these 'near death experiences' and wasnt a mormon he wouldnt have had a veil to tear, which leads me to believe he's full of it, he's just morphed crap together, may i add, in my opinion....after his trial he may actually be on the path of a near death experience, mind you i'm not sure Idaho would carry out capitol punishment during Chad's current life.
My own Christian parents have told me to my face in the past year that following Jesus is more important than family. This is not something Christians would get upset that you're saying, they are proud of it.....and it's not only very hurtful, it's terrifying.
Context. It’s correct.
Perhaps they were talking about Biblical hierarchy in Christianity: God-Husband-Wife-Children. When that is out of order chaos ensues. Il
@@JackieOlanternwhat do you mean?
Lori was convicted yesterday, 12th May 2023, GUILTY on all charges 😅😅😅 happy mothers Day, lori ..Best gift she could ever have
Her best gifts were her children and even her own life. She gave all of that up because she didn't know how to value life. Will her time to reflect behind bars gift her another chance? IDk but glad she has her entire life to find out. Society needs protection from both her and Chad.
I’m puzzled about how Lauren can continue being a mom Mormon with all the duplicity that has been revealed especially on the Mormon podcasts and it’s mysoginistic view of women.
@@ginaross6382 I've never been in any organization where everyone believed or loved or thought or interpreted exactly the same exactly way as everyone else. How can anyone belong to any religion, if you want to get right down to it? Look at our history of acts committed in the name of religion.
Another example...this one will include you. The #2 industry worldwide is human trafficking which includes the statistics of sex trafficking of adults and children. We have more people living in slavery right now than ever in the recorded history of the world...not just because we have more people on the planet...but because the Percentage rate is greater. How can you call yourself a decent moral human being that respects life and not wake up every day trying to stop the enslavement of adults and children? Most people in slavery do not escape to freedom...they die. What does that say about your values?
@@GaryDoyle-fd3cf I am not defending anyone here as everyone is capable of speaking for themselves. I am just commenting that you aren't participating, you are trolling. So you have a username but you aren't a user...you are a troll. Life happens, right?
I just happened to have stumbled across this on TH-cam. Thank you for an excellent podcast! I'm excited to watch part 2. I have followed this case since day one. As an ex mormon this case has really hit home to me. It's been so interesting to hear all of your perspectives. I have often wondered this myself. How much of the church's theology has partially affected Chad and Lori's thinking. Even though I know it was to the extreme and way off. I know mainstream mormons don't practice this.
Thank you Lauren for mentioning Tylee, and JJ. I often feel very angry that the church has not acknowledged them, or said anything against the craziness of these far extreme groups out there.
I can't wait for Chad and Lori's trial and I pray justice is rendered for Tylee, JJ, Tammy and Charles!
I love johns rant about Julie Rowe’s dystopian prophecies 😂
I’d never heard of Denver Snuffer. At first I thought you were talking about a serial killer from Denver.
😂😂😂
Me too, sounds menacing.
I've been following the story from the very beginning because I am LDS and I live in Paulden Arizona!
JOHN AND LAUREN-FAVORITE POWER COUPLE!!!
Can anyone explain to me exactly what Chad Daybell and Julie Rowe consider Near Death Experiences ? I’ve heard them reference some of these NDE’s and it stood out to me that they didn’t seem to be too near death : No ambulances were called. Chad did receive some stitches. I can’t tell the difference between their NDE,s and daydreams. I was revived by paramedics came to surrounded by parame with heart monitor sticky pads all over my chest, etc. I don’t remember ( except for Chad’s stitches ) any mention of medical assistance being required. Thanks for educating me on their NDE’s.
That's because they didn't actually have NDEs. They were nowhere near death. It's all drama, delusion & grandiosity.
Glad you are still with us! Right, there is no medical documentation for Chad's various NDEs and originally he wrote them as fiction. His affiliation with Julie Rowe caused him to realize that he could grow "his brand". Chad began to retell these NDE stories as real experiences.
My sister is a Mormon & women are alway blamed for marriage going wrong. You have be absolutely perfect. Stepford wive type
So true. But I can say that the last 2 prophets have made a goal of stopping that. It is still very culturally ingrained, as it is in many “Christian” churches.
There is a great book by David Clarke calling out Christian Therapists for their constant blame of women, and forgiving the summer and blaming the victims.
The more I hear about the Morman religion, the more I see similarities to Scientology.
Yes!!!!!! Exactly what I thought! 😵💫
They are very similar
Yep they both are FOR-PROFIT entities that celebrate crass materialism and claim to show people how to amass personal power, status and wealth but their teachings are shrouded with the aura of religiosity which gives them some kind of supposed sanctity, validity and therefore a kind of metaphysical justification. Both cults were founded by gifters and are led to this day by charlatans and con artists. In addition both systems totally infantilize their followers and plunges them into utter dependency and bondage. Both systems denigrate sexuality and instill in believers a lot of shame -- yet also involve leaders who sexually exploit their followers. Scientology is less explicitly misogynistic. Both end up impoverishing their followers utterly and completely and on every level material, psychological and spiritual.
The more I learned about the Mormon religion the more I’m sure it’s a cult! The things that go on in Temple, for example. The control they have over their people, etc..
,@@JackieOlantern
If someone is deluded enough to believe Joseph Smith saw an angel who gave him a set of golden plates to translate then they will fall for anything.
Ya, it’s not nice to point out, but it’s true. LDS is based on a non credible narrator. Joseph smith was a con artist.
The church wasn’t persecuted, it was founded by a criminal who faced charges. And practicing polygamy was also criminal.
Rejecting reality seems foundational to the LDS faith.
@@pnwlady All religions are man made. Human beings do love our stories and mythologies.
@@pnwlady and he was a pedo.
Do you suppose that he was schizophrenic? That he really did speak to “angels”? This phenomenon seems to be prevalent among certain groups and I believe in some cases they do hear voices. But then there are, for sure, out right cons.
@@lmrushing7375 what if it were a combination? it would mean Smith was experiencing schizophrenia as a teen and typically people experiencing this don't remain as organized in their thinking as they age. It would be interesting to see these characters undergo psychiatric evals today, wouldn't it? My bet would be a touch of manic-depressive and a creative bend. I've seen this combo make quite a few successful conmen.
What a wonderful surprise when the guests were introduced- they are my two favorite people on TH-cam!!! ❤️❤️
Mine too! 😃
So happy to have found this website! 👏🏼 Lauren & Dr. John Hidden True Crime👏🏼
I am a Christian. I believe that God answers my prayers all the time.
You all are excellent! I also watch Hidden TC TH-cam channel:)
I believe Chad would be the same master manipulator who uses his passive aggressive tactics to get what he wants without involving himself. With or without religion.
He did a good job identifying the weak minded. That's one if his abilities
I've been reading the texts between himself and Zulema.
Its mind blowing how gullible she was.
Just about every text was to the effect of
Chad help I had a vision dark spirits were attacking me! I've had a headache all day! Please
Chad
Ok Zulema I have removed the dark spirits from you and cleared the house.
Zulema
Oh thank you Chad! My head is feeling better!
You are wonderful!
His texts and Melanie Gibbs police interviews make my blood boil.
A con artists and a BS er.
Thanks!
Spot on!!
Simply evil.
Oh if only I had Chad around every time I have a migraine. Maybe he could magically clear the air for me lol😂
I worked for a lds owned bank I was absolutely blown away to think a church can own a financial institution
All major churches are essentially banks. The LDS religion is not unique in this regard.
Thank you Lauren that was powerful. You brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for your compassion and laying the foundation of this podcast. Beautifully done!
I'm going through these videos now and it's kind of terrifying to me how much of this my parents were into. NDEs, white horse prophecy. I remember my parents talking about stakes in AZ having meetings requiring temple recommends and they totally thought that individual stakes were being called to go to the mountains or to Missouri. I've deconstructed a lot but the clip at 2:07:50 sounds SO MUCH like what my experience of Mormonism was like. Visions of future children, end-times prophecies. I even went to an energy healing event with my mom when I was a kid. I'm not sure what to think :/
Yeah I kind of thought this was regular Mormonism. Interesting to find out it’s an offshoot. I think far more people than we realize are into these ides. Thx for your comment, I’m not Mormon but am here for the conversation.
I am concerned about the Prepper movement because I have friends into this. Over time their mindset and ability to reason changes and the belief system begins to drift more fringe, more extreme. When I point about facts, they reject these. They are losing their ability to tell up from down. I feel the LDS needs to help this marginalized segment called Preppers. Sects are developing within Preppers that are being manipulated and exploited.
Hold on, Mormon’s and true crime in one video? John I’m obsessed
Yes! True Crime! Latter Gay Saints!
It doesn’t get much better than that 🎉
Bottom line, no matter how you wrap this nightmare, it came down to money! Always start with the money. Next, power and control.
That explains Trump!
Just Googled Flaming Gorge- the highest cliff mentioned is approximately 50ft, not 60, so I'd assume fairly safely that he never jumped from that height, and most likely not from 50ft either.
I like jumping off high diving boards, the height always looks much more than it actually is - its a huge thrill. But I'm doubtful of his story just for that alone.
Highest place to jump from at Flaming Gorge is the bridge. Probably less than a hundred foot drop to the water.
This is fascinating.I love learning about different versions of Christianity, spirituality, psychology, and more insights into this case.
I know Mormon's say they are the only true church of Jesus Christ, but I would venture to say that Mormonism is not part of true Christianity as the Mormon ten nets when you dig deep, go completely against scripture. It's more consistent with freemasonry, as Joseph Smith was also a freemason and wove many of the freemason beliefs and even symbolism into Mormonism itself. I mean the very fact that they set the book of Mormon and other works alongside of scripture goes against scripture which says not to add to or take away from scripture.
The Mormon people are often wonderful people full of principle and morals, but a faith based on trying to do the right thing to go on and become gods of planets of their own. This defies scripture completely as Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
This was very informative. I chose to become a Humanist but do not judge my fellow man who choose to participate in
one of the estimated 4,000+ religions that exist. This case is so sad and baffling as to how these these two (Lori & Chad) and those that assisted (Alex) and enabled them could destroy so many innocent and precious lives under the guise of their religion.
It's not at all baffling- beliefs in the invisible and fantastical, delude people into grandiose atrocities.
Righto. It seems to me that these kinds of things run deeper than religion, it goes to the core of the operation of our societies.
Any culture that is big enough and has an undercurrent of punishment and brutality, of an unobtainable puritanism, whatever it may be, is going to put enough pressure on itself to start to crack at the seems and this is what squeezes out of the cracks. All kinds of "immoral" behavior because ordinary morality is impossible unless you forego actual human rights and needs and deny them for being "bad".
Can't wait for part 2!! This was sooooo interesting to listen to.
I'm back watching this yet again. At the start point of Chad's trial, now. I was nervous but I've gone back and looked at the evidence we have seen already, and I've luckily reminded myself that the evidence against Chad is damning and way worse than what there is against Lori. Chad was in sole charge of who was dark (or light). Chad named and decided who was a zombie, and the zombie's name and strength. Chad solely decided who was close to death percentages, when other's asked. Chad decided by himself if a zombie was cast out or not and if another came in. And it's all in his own words in texts and emails and written down. Chad text Lori that Tammy was now a zombie called Viola and that he 'didn't want to wait to have it removed.' I just re-read those texts about Tammy, I don't see how Chad can get around those awful messages.
I am a NeverMo, but have family in Teton, ID ( next door to Rexburg). We were there this past Memorial Day weekend. We touched on the subject, and the sadness on their faces was very apparent. They do a lot of temple work in the Rexburg temple, and I wonder if they ever crossed paths. That was never mentioned and I didn't ask.
What is a nevermo?
@Julie Jenkins Never a Mormon. I was never a member of the "church."
Awesome panel. The links with Mormonism are extensive and unmistakable.
Chad could never do what he did without the fundamental principles within the LDS religion! He absolutely took advantage of the basis of the entire religion.. and perverted it. The belief that you can get visions from Jesus and become a prophet… anyone who wasent indoctrinated in this religion sees ALL OF IT as the insanity that it is.
Lauren's point on 2:45 is powerful at is calls out the Mormon Church for not addressing things. I'm not Mormon so I don't know that anything has changed in the year since this video was posted. But as to why the Mormon Church isn't addressing the victims by name is the same reason that the Catholic Church hasn't effectively dealt with the fact that millions of children have been sexually abused. They can't say anything because they would have to admit they had a part in things.
Didn’t Kevin Franke claim that the Hanna’s wanted to merge Julie Rowe and Jodi Hildebrandt into one big cult? I could be wrong
I feel that the LDS church has to shoulder the responsibility of this end days scenario that's taught in there doctrine and the repercussion of it. I remember as a kid growing up feeling like to a point what the point of planning a future. Being g told by my parents that the second coming would happen in my life time. All the good and bad of it, and as a kid the bad weighed heavy on the scale. It took a lot of years to move passed that even though I left the church as a teenager deep in my thinking the fear of it ending during my lifetime was there. Because of end of day and being prepared for it, as a young man dictated many choices I made. Thank God I did move on from it but I can see how people can let themselves become victims of teachings. For me now any organized religion has very dangerous elements and I can't believe they truly serve humanity. Even if it may seem so on their surface.
Yes!! They have crimes they cover up just like catholic
I see this tendency to believe conspiracy theories stemming from the Book of Mormon and the “secret combinations” that are described in it.
The Osmond Family is the extent of my knowledge of LDS. I know Donny and Marie! LOL
You know it's funny with Donny and Marie Marie ft her work ahead of her son the one who killed himself. But donny I think has had one strong marriage in any case Palmyra New York used to have this Festival every year the Hill Cumorah Pageant and I think Donnie performed there the last year they had it. . Sometime during covid-19 it ended for good BUT the Mormons were run out of the entire state of New York and they KEPT going west so I too think about latter Day Saints and The Osmonds when I think about Palmyra New York
Marie came out about the sexual abuse she experienced as a child in LDS after she fell into deep depression as an adult.
I will never forget that interview she and Donnie did of Brooke Shields decades ago. Marie was on antidepressants and the side effects had left her not her crisp usual self. Marie slower's response time annoyed Brooke who was snappy and a bit rude to Marie. Years later Brooke experienced post partum depression and talked about going on medication. I always wondered if her own experience made her think back to question that time she shared with Marie. Brooke was considered brave for speaking up about "the baby blues". Marie was exceptionally brave for speaking about csa coming from the LDS or any religious background. At the time, what Marie chose to do was practically unheard of...kudos to her.
As an evangelical Christian I can tell you unequivocally that our beliefs do not jibe with Mormon teachings in any way. While a believer of Jesus can receive a personal revelation from their reading of the Bible, through prayer, and sometimes through other believers, we do not believe the Bible is incomplete and needs further revelation from anyone else, for the writing or revising of scripture. The Bible is the inerrant Word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit.
The personal revelation we receive MUST agree with scripture. It has to line up with the Holy Bible. It is edifying, not condemning.
We believe in miracles.
We believe in a second coming of Christ, but as Jesus said, “no man knows the day or the hour”. Matthew 24:36.
We do believe Revelation, the last book of the Bible, written by John. There are signs of the end times, but we are to be working, spreading the Gospel, growing in our relationship with Jesus and with people…not waiting around for the end times. Christians are split about the rapture. But it isn’t a hill to die on; this doctrine has nothing to do with salvation.
Salvation depends on calling on the Name of Jesus, believing He died for our sins and was resurrected. We believe in repentance, turning away from our sins. We turn away by the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit. We believe baptism is an outward sign of publicly acknowledging our new found life in Jesus, but is NOT necessary for salvation.
We do not believe in reincarnation.
No one is equal to Jesus except God the Father and the Holy Spirit which was given after Jesus was ascended back to heaven…for our guidance and for our Comforter amongst other things.
I could go on and on, but I’m here to listen and learn about the DaybelI case. I esp love HTC channel and that’s essentially why I’m here. Love Dr John and Laura.
Excellent! You’re exactly right! Amen!
Fantastic! Love this research! Love the insights! Love Mindy! This one hits it out of the park. Keep them coming!
Just because you have an NDE, it doesn't necessarily make you “special” or give you “powers”. Many have this experience, it deepens their faith, but they don't develop “powers”.
You four are fantastic and the Fantastic Four! I send blessings and light. RIP Tyler, JJ, Tammy, Charles. 💜🌈🌸🌊
I would take Daybell’s autobiography with a grain of salt. He has proven to be an unreliable narrator.
So if Chad's veil ripped and it is a part of his brain, that means a part of his brain is damaged...yeah that makes sense.
🤣🤣🤣
Thanks for all your contributions. It has shed much light on some of the things I was wondering about not being LDS and following Lori Daybell’s trial. Mostly about the preparation conferences, which didn’t seem to me would be apart of the LDS church (but I don’t know tons). And to better understand some of the names mentioned like Nephi.
1:50:07 why didn’t Joseph Smith not foresee himself going to jail. 😅
Haha right! because he was a charlatan!
Yeah where was Joseph Smith magic portal to escape the jail cell!?! 😂
He did!
Martin Luther knew through the Bible that everyone can go straight to God, man does not need a intercessor. I’m sickened by the blasphemy of Chad an Lori an twisting of scripture. 1:03:46 All of things John talks about, crystals ect, new age stuff none of it is if God.
The church has a spectrum of "exits" some are more to the "right" and others more to the "left". It's great that mormon stories examines as much of the range as possible.
Thoroughly enjoyed this podcast. My first knowledge of "all this" is with Nate Eatons' riveting interview of MG.
Now, I see that same interview and wonder what was truly going on between MG and LVD. I recently visited the church building where they attended. Who would have ever suspected?
MG hands are so dirty. Hers and Melaniece. Both should have had charges. Unfortunately it's not what is known it's what can proved in a court of law.
Joseph Smith and Chad Daybell needed to make up the earlier experiences to further their "story"
I have cognitive disonance watching Lauren still being Morman after being married to Doctor John and being on MSP and not get defensive about how out there Morman beliefs are. when stated simply.
You have cognitive dissonance? Look it up.
Sharing of near death experiences, "I had this spiritual experience/vision" story sharing with others, is integral to the Mormonism I knew and know. It is the lingua franca of the Mormons, and it makes every member since 1830 have at least one leg in the magic circle of Joseph Smith's treasure digging gang. A nemo once observed to me, "Mormons seem competitive about their spiritual/religious experiences". Hiram Page lives on in it all.
I had a near death experience on Christmas Eve 2019 when I was thrown into a concrete wall from a moving vehicle. I have blacked it out. My only memory is before and after and through some flashbacks. I am skeptical of these stories of going to the gates of Heaven and deciding to come back. I think of it as a dream state where the brain is working through the trauma. I expressly told the hospital to not allow any member of the LDS Church to come into my room and no blessings
@@dianethulin1700 very glad you survived and recovered. It seems like only a subset of NDEs get promoted and grab attention among believers/members. Naturalistic brain trauma/O2 deprivation make a lot more sense.
@@JC-vq2cs Thank you for your good wishes! Not a day goes by that I don't think of it but I am getting stronger every day. It's so hard to get therapy with Covid but have a co-worker who I can talk to who also had a bad accident. It has made me view trauma and mortality differently. I also had an allergy to pain meds and went through liver failure. At no time did I want to rejoin the church or fear I could go to hell. The brain is capable of letting us believe what we want to
Strange I've been a member of the church for 20 plus years and I've never heard a near-death experience from any of the members before Chad daybell. I did have a near-death experience but have never told anyone because I felt it was private and it was many many years ago when I became very ill and was not expected to live. Never related it to my faith at all so was not a big deal
Just to add I come from New England in a very famous university area and many going for their MDS and Phds that are LDS also attend that University. It could be that it is a difference in culture with these particular people that I don't hear such stories. They're pretty down to earth and most are in The sciences so probably don't get off on these tangents.
Julie Rowe can ‘see everything.’ She can see the future. She can see the past. Yet she defended Chad Daybell initially. Apparently she wasn’t able to see what happened to Tylee, JJ or Tammy.