My sister was involved in that group AVOW years ago when Julie Rowe was going around to Stake centers talking about her NDEs! She too spent all her 401k that she had accumulated through the years.. I had no idea at the time why she quit her job and took her 401k out. It was all about the narrative that this woman was spewing and also the book visions of glory had much to do with it as my sister also loved that book and took it as almost Doctrine.. Today she is quite embarrassed that she was so misled but she lost soo much in the process.. After the Chad and Lori daybell issue she got out of the group. It makes me wonder had that not happened that she would still be all in
I’m so sorry to hear she went through this. I've heard many similar stories and its heartbreaking! That was part of my reason for speaking out about this. I hope she knows she's not alone. ❤ Many people have been duped by Avow.
So many Mormon stories match my evangelical upbringing in the 80s and 90s. I have been deconstructing for 20 years but these stories still help so very much. Thank you Josh and Kim for sharing. ❤
Thank you for sharing this! Josh's description of what an LDS mission was like (around 2:45:00) resonated with me so much. Even all these years after my mission, it's so comforting to hear that I'm not alone in my feelings. ❤
I started having severe intrusive thoughts when I was 14. I remember thinking demons were attacking me and religious leaders around me reinforcing this idea. I went undiagnosed for 13 years because of this. After my ocd diagnosis and treatment my suffering dropped off significantly within two months.
The children are totally at the mercy (or absence) of the parents' insanity. . So heartbreaking. Yet I can't help but think that the mass insanity, delusion and paranoia cause large groups of people to to look at any but the most rigidly righteous as evil and a threat, then possibly we all are at the mercy of that type of insanity. I'm not one to blame mental health but she is describing thinking and behavior that is truly diagnosable. Follie au deux en masses. Have you ever considered looking at this perspective or is it just too unwieldy? Still so incredibly dangerous depending on what their "visions" are telling them.
The one true church keeps wounding hearts, sometimes fatally. I'm sorry for everything each of you have suffered. The more storiesI hear, and the more I learn what happened to me. The more amazed I am that there are not more suicides from the mind fu__ and broken spirits the Church produces. Shame on the top leaders and any others who are complicit with the abuse being done.
My son came back home from his Mission 6 month earlier due to an accident caused him to have brain concussion. After he recovered from his injury, he tried to date. And the first question every girl asked him was something like "So did you serve a Mission?" followed by "Did you complete 2 year-mission?" Then, "why did you come home earlier?" At the end, he married a career-driven woman who cared none of those. She loves my son unconditionally.
My WASP ex LDS sons gf here in utah is GASP a mexican non practicing Catholic and we couldn’t be happier. Sorry LDS girls you’ll be missing out on an honest hilarious brilliant handsome tall strong one and he gonna be making a lotta $$ one day 🥴🤷🏻♀️ Darnit if only whether you did or didn’t serve a mish wasn’t so unreasonably expected.
I want to let Josh know he truly was beyond his years when he chose to respect the privacy of the other Elders. Only a person with a true sense of honor would act in that capacity. The irony of an institution that considers itself honorable, could glean so much from your example. This to me is an uplifting story of strength… I could go on and on - Respect Josh !
I *so* appreciate that y'all took the time to show Josh that he was ethically correct and sound in his refusal to turn in his peers and take care of himself. He so clearly needed to hear it and in that moment we got to see him have the maternal response he so deserved. Thank you.
That was so beautiful and touching. Margi is so kind and Josh deserves all the credit for his time and the honor of his ethics. I hope that made sense.
Who would have thought that i would be watching the story of Josh Coffins faith journey on Mormon Stories . All the support to the Coffin family. His friend group often intermingled with mine in high school and can't stress enough how great of a guy he is.
Can y'all go find that mission president and rip him a new one for me? I'm just an old, once Catholic now atheist lady trying to survive in the South, but Josh's mission story has me wild. Josh, you did not deserve that and it was a truly evil thing to do to you. You both are amazing and thank you for sharing all of this. ❤️❤️❤️
Thanks John and Margie for showing so much compassion for Josh and Kim in telling their amazing story. It gave a lot of background to all the sad stories circulating right now involving child murder and child abuse. Josh and Kim I wish only the best for you both as you continue your journey. Your discernment and courage shines bright.
Thank you to Mormon Stories for explaining what scrupulosity is and how it impacts people. I had never heard the term prior to hearing the issue discussed on Mormon Stories two years ago. It absolutely explains my experience as a youth in the church and the fear and anxiety that I lived with for so long. It also made leaving the church so much more difficult. My heart goes out to everyone who struggles with this. ❤
He really is! He spent time working with a therapist specializing in feminism (after we left the LDS church) so that he could unlearn what he had learned in the church and become a better father and husband. ❤
I was so touched and inspired by Josh's mission story. It inspires me to the highest levels to know he gave up so much that could have made him look good to be true to his own ethics. His Mom was right in a weird warped way..... he's a diamond in the rough. At least that's how I see it. ❤️❤️❤️
I’m older, 63 female EXmo. Omg, I’m finding this young couple so interesting. They could mirror my whole life. I’m so happy that they found out that this is a shame based religion. I’m so happy they got proper therapy! Unfortunately, I found out too late, but I’m trying to rebuild myself. I’m one of those moms that lived for her kids. Now that I’m not in the church, I have No community. I’m having to almost relearn to re-parent my kids and myself. The church really hurt my self esteem and confidence. I always felt inferior as I didn’t want my boys to go on a mission. I would mention that to other women and then was avoided like I had some evil demon in me. I know it’s going to probably take the rest of my life to undo everything! Kudos ❤to this couple.
Norah, SO PROUD of you for turning things around for you and your kids! It's hard. I'm 43 and deconstructing from regular Christianity/evangelical and it's hard. I wish you and your kids the best! ❤
This had me in a flood of tears. I feel so much empathy for Kim and admiration for the person she has become despite this deeply traumatic upbringing. This has strengthened my resolve to keep teaching my own daughter that she is unconditionally loved, that her body is hers, and that she always has people in her corner who will believe and support her.
2:51:18 josh, thank you for crying. thank you for being vulnerable in these moments without shame. margie, thank you for hearing him. thank you for engaging with him and validating him over and over again. men's fears and pains and emotions regarding failure and not being seen and being heard are so often disregarded and minimized. this was very refreshing and very validating and very meaningful to watch. josh i am so sorry this happened to you and i hope you can heal and i hope you have people that love you and appreciate you and show you it every single day now. you deserve to be shown your worth and praised for your hard work. you and kim make an amazing team and when you sit together and speak together your fortitude shines. i'm sorry you have both had to be so resilient throughout all of this.
@whenimonmymoon6822 yes! And santa🤣🤣 more afraid of heavenly father, Jesus & the holy ghost but this Santa comment cracks me up. I was only scared of him seeing me around winter🙃
@kassystuart8874 hahaha, i recently used it as an example when talking to my mom about my religious trauma. I was like, y'all didn't mean for me to take "he sees all" as "he pops in while I shower" but that concept was so ingrained it made me nervous about Santa, too! The other example I used was as a kid we weren't allowed to wear "jelly shoes" nc they were expensive and had no support, however, my sisters and I were so trained in purity culture we assumed it's bc they were somehow slutty/immodest. 🤷♀️
Me too friend. This episode brings back a lot of emotion and helps me see where I grew to be so hyper vigilant and scrupulous. It was required of me, it’s the only way I could exist in that environment.
The idea that someone is perhaps not righteous enough being the reason for mental health issues hits too close to home for me- my daughter was told the same thing by a seminary teacher, that if she read her scriptures more and prayed more her depression wouldn't be as bad. She never went back after that, and I sure wasn't about to make her go. We talked to leadership about this and nothing was done to remove the teacher from the calling and she is still teaching the youth in spite of other bad experiences I won't go into. It was the beginning of her process of leaving, and mine as well.
I grew up in an evangelical Christian home and relate to 90% of what these two have shared here. Minus the prepper stuff and the sexual abuse (I did experience other types of abuse) i could be saying these same words. So just sharing yo to show that this isn’t just happening within morman religious communities. So heartbreaking!
I LOVE Margies perspective of Josh 'standing up' for himself. Proud of you, Josh!! My son didnt graduate from seminary because he was HONEST in telling the truth of not reading all the scriptures that were required of them. How many seminary students are really being truthful about their reading. My son felt honesty was more important. Great things will come your way, Josh, because of how you stand up.
I have a child who has struggled severely with OCD, so much of what Kim say strikes home. It's one of the reasons we initially took steps away from the church seeing how negatively the purity culture affected her. Thanks for sharing Kim, I will be sharing this with her.
You're so welcome! It was one of the things that caused us to take a step back, too. Seeing my daughter have OCD-like tendencies and knowing how damaging that could be for her made us really question what we were doing.
Braxton Southwick, Lori Vallow/Daybells cousin speaks about his prepping and gun collection on the Hidden True Crime channel. He loves the Visions of Glory book and is quite scary to me.
Dear Josh, I just don't believe you were sent home for breaking the rules, you were sent home for failing to comply to the demand that you give evidence against all your fellow missionaries. You acted with honour not to give up that information to a new president. Sure he wants to clean things up, but that can be done without you giving information on historical behaviour. Your honour is more than in tact. It so wasn't about you breaking the rules.... That was just a lever the new president hoped to manipulate you with and when he could'nt (because you were too honourable) he used your minor rule breaking to punish you. Very shoddy of him as he clearly realised later.... ❤
I grew up mormon in New Zealand during the 80s and 90s. My parents were extremely conservative, extremely strict, and food storage was of massive importance. I too grew up with fear and anxiety being the main emotional state, and it’s impacted my adult life in a big way. I’m not diagnosed OCD, however my mother definitely had/s it (also undiagnosed, and not the only mental health issue - I believe), and it played a huge role in my development. Scrupulosity was absolutely what I experienced growing up mormon, along with many other mental health struggles - I was also diagnosed with Autism at 36, and I believe this also hugely impacted how I grew up and all the struggles I am dealing with now (40), due to how I perceived the world around me. My parents also have a bias against professional mental healthcare - they still now will not seek out therapy, even though they really could benefit from it. I never knew the concept of mental health or wellness - I internalised it as a failure on my part, and developed a strong core belief that I was fundamentally flawed. This led to ongoing suicidal thoughts and even attempts, all of which I kept hidden, because of the negative messaging I received. I really relate to Kim’s story and appreciate the podcast! It’s always comforting to feel like you’re not alone. My heart breaks listening to Kim speak about her father - I too had a super strict and controlling father, who was physically abusive, as well as psychologically and emotionally abusive, and I feared him. Like Kim, I never felt safe at home, and would isolate myself in my room.
This interview really pulled on my heart strings. I love these 2 humans❣ I'm so humbled by their story. Thank you for your courage and for sharing this highly valuable story. I subscribed to sweetredpoppy on YT. So excited.
I, like many non- Mormons, started watching Mormon Stories to get insight around some of the recent crimes that have happened involving the LDS community. This particular episode has been so enlightening and informative about the actual experiences of young Mormons. This couple is so loving and kind and their experiences are heartbreaking. They are so lucky to have each other and to have come out on the other side stronger and wiser. Thank you to MS for sharing their story and much love to the Coffin family as they continue to heal. ❤
Is Scarlett Letter a book Mormons can read? Public shaming and group dynamic intimidation and fear traumatized this wonderful, gentle and honest man. 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
Thank you. I’m from Idaho, and generations have been terrorized from AVOW and the survivalists have TERRIFIED and runnier thousands of lives for decades. Our water use to get shut off between my Mons tithing and prepping. I don’t know how we didn’t all end up like JJ and Tylee. I’m still watching but if this is one of Chris and Sues daughters I’m glad you made it out the other side. That IS the miracle!!
My church life 74-08....the notions of evil spirits etc....virtually nonexistent. I could confidently say that it was not in the manuals...except maybe the story of the evil spirits going into swine. But that was never about me feeling threatened by being surrounded by evil spirits....or definitely not concerned about evil spirits possessing my body. I consistently see a big difference geographically and culturally with the Mormon experience.
Wait! I have Mormon family....I NEVER knew they had to pay for their own missions! Not only are they working day in and day out, without pay. But the fact that they pay to do it! That's unacceptable. I always thought part of the tithing was to pay for missionaries.
Oh Kim, I connect so much with you. I too grew up in a home that was restrictive and depressed. I was raised as a Jehovah Witness and left when I was eighteen. LDS beliefs are very similar. My Father was high up within the organization as well. . I too have some good memories but when there’s more negative times it does wash out the good ones at times. I too played outside a lot too. I wasn’t allowed to have friends outside the organization nor participate in school activities. I never felt I was enough or a good person.. My gosh the fear was paralyzing throughout my life. Most of my life I felt I left the only true religion. I can say through great therapy, learning to be open minded, I have grown but not without pain. Shunning is so damaging if I allow it.. I realize my parents raised me and my siblings the only way they knew how but most importantly that any religion is man made. My spirituality is better than ever and I do have purpose. I’m worthy of Gods love, we all are. Josh, you remind me so much of my husband. You two are building your lives so beautifully. Thank you for sharing your stories. 56:28
There is nothing sweeter to see than spouses who are proud of one another. I love that they acknowledge they married to young, are happy to be married, and clearly champion one another. ❤
When i received my Patriarchal Blessings I was told I would live to the second coming and when i started talking about this with others who had received their blessing they had the same thing in theirs. The CallOut was something we were told we had to be ready for, our seminary teacher grabbed on to our blessings and suddenly we were being taught the importance of being ready for the tribulations that would come before the return. When President Hinkley gave his conference talk on Joseph interpreting the dream of Pharoh and our need to he prepared for our 7 years of famine it ramped up again. Their obsession with the end of the world was disturbing to me as a teenager and now as a 40 year old woman my heart breaks for how much damage is done to kids mentally with this crap. I remember trying to shower as quickly as possible for fear of being naked if "something" happened and getting dressed UNDER my towel in my room because I didn't want anything to see me naked. And when I talked to my mom about it she brushed it off as "well that isn't what the church means" yet my mom or my teachers would say that we're constantly being watched and every act written down. That we would see a film of our lives and everyone would see our every sin at judgement. It is a truly destructive environment for anyone but especially children.
So astute about her dad. She is so empathetic I'm a licensed therapist and using my education differently right now Parentification and Triagulation for sure. I know about parentification and experienced it. it's a lot of pressure and very painful.Hearing her sexual abuse was heartbreaking.Oh Josh, so sorry too. I'm so glad you and Kim found each other! ❤ I'm a licensed clinical social worker in California never Mormon. I relate to many of these stories because I am hard on myself too because of the abuse I suffered. Sending so much love and admiration for both of you. ❤
Sounds like a lot of people use religion as an excuse to abuse others. I was raised as a Catholic in the 60’s and 70’s and it was drilled into me that if I committed a mortal sin and died that night, I’d go to 🔥As a female who had so much Catholic guilt and shame for things I never did, it was easy to see how I would end up in toxic relationships. Also, our priest was abusing the altar boys at that time, but it was not spoken about until 2018 when the Catholic Church agreed to list the names of priests who they had validated issues of molestation. Of course, that specific priest was already deceased and so was my brother who was an altar boy during the time of this priests tenure at our church. Ironically, the priest lived about 30 years longer than my brother. Imagine going to confession to someone who is molesting children. This is why these stories like the Coffins need to come out. Not saying there was SA involved with them, but how abuse is covered up, hidden and accepted under the guise of religion.
When I was raped after my husband died, I was almost excommunicated. There was anything BUT support. I can so identify with when you mentioned how your family members questioned how was the girl/woman dressed, etc., as to why she had this happen to her. There is a bias in the church regarding ‘sexual sin’. Men who sexually abuse others, are worked with….their temple recommends are not taken away, etc. But a woman? I was raped and lost my temple recommend, was told not to partake of the sacrament, had to do 100% visiting teaching, and was assigned to read the book; The Miracle Of Forgiveness. That horrible, asinine book, was like rubbing salt into my wounds! When I told an LDS psychologist about all of this, he was incredulous over how I was dealt with by the Bishop. He also said that the Miracle Of Forgiveness book was required reading when he was in young men’s. He said that they thought that they were all going to go to hell, after reading it! It is a HORRIBLE book! To show the picture of Christ on the cover, and call it The Miracle Of Forgiveness, was a twisted form of mental abuse by the church!
I find the focus on the second coming as a stealer of joy and any sense of hope for the future. If all these horrible things are imminent, how do you possibly have any ability to plan a future that includes love and happiness? How do you make plans for normal human joys when in any moment your reality could change in an instant?
I am Irish and catholic and our education was not really religious and it did not frame my morals or ideas. My personal morals were based on common sense. Treat others the way you would like to be treated. Everyone in this world is conceived the same way so all humans are equal
@bernadetteoriorden Same here. I attended convent schools, but they never framed my morals or ideas. Parents taught by example. We were never bullied by religion. I'm shocked at how this woman's father behaved. Nothing Christian in him.
Thank God for my parents who let us be US!!We were raised catholic but we were never censored, all questions were answered they let us enjoy our childhood, they taught us love Jesus by loving, being generous, to be respectful and never judge others.
I think that you have to be honest here. She was NOT raised in a normal functioning Mormon household. It is wrong to blame the LDS church for those you choose to practice their own concept of Christ’s gospel. Unstable crazy father that the “church” did not breed. This man would have been crazy with or without the church!
@@SweetRedPoppyAll people with extreme believes acts like that, so the place to talk about this is not here, it will be with whom talks about how ANY EXTREME BELIVE affects the life of anybody who lives it. Because all this sounds more that attacking the Church principals, instead attack the roots of the issue “your Dad” I’m telling this with all my respect and really understand your pain.
35:00 spare the rod, spoil the child" is one of the most misinterpreted versus that parents used. The rod was used by the Shepard to protect the sheep, keep them from danger, gently guide them on the path, and fight off predators. A Shepard would NEVER beat their sheep.
I was not a part of AVOW but was taught growing up that there would be some that would be called out, not all would make the track back to Missouri, only the very elect. So this belief had to predate the AVOW group. Im 48 for context.
Brother Josh: You served two months longer than those who did the 18-month era. Nice job! If your second mission Pres sincerely regretted his decision to send you home as he did, he could ask the Missionary Department to re-characterize your mission service, even if you are no longer a member.
I totally get the tears about Legos… I dreamed and dreamed as a child about playing the guitar and was so excited when my parents got me a guitar and lessons, and then I started lessons and talking about it at school, and the other girls constantly talked about how “Boys play guitar! Girls play piano!” …and it was true that I only saw boys playing guitar at my teacher’s house, while the girls were always learning piano with his wife… they eventually wore me down, and I wanted approval so much I gave it up., and it was a great loss.
So curious how parents control things they shouldn't at times. I wanted to learn flute, but my mother chose Clarinet for me. I don't know why. I had no real talent for it, but knew she would be disappointed of I quit, so I continued through Jr High. I probably would have sucked at the flute, too.
We were taught how God has prepared mansions for us in heaven, I’d always think because of my sins I would be happy with a tent in the back blocks as long as I get in. 😞
@joshcoffinator You are a sensitive, caring, intelligent, insightful young man. You did the right thing by not being a tattle-tale to your mission companions. Their choices ARE between them and God. You chose to value their personal choice, their personal agency and let them guide their futures. Josh, this was a very mature thing to do under the circumstances. I hope you are able to fully take ownership of this very valuable quality. My heart broke for you as you told the story of being in Mexico and being sent home early. I wish you complete healing from the imposed trauma .. it takes time, you will continue to grow. You two are amazing your people.
I agree with that! mormons and Scientology both put narcissistic tendencies to the forefront. And also the competition becomes the addiction. Looks and accomplishments are the addiction since they can’t have it anywhere else in life.
I understand that this is entirely as a result of the way young Mormons are raised. But referring to 18-20 yo men as elders while women are girls but teenage girls are tempting grown men is infuriating.
Sweet Red Poppy has been my go to for so much sewing advice! Thank you, Kim and Josh, for sharing your stories. I think your words are going to help so many people. Also, Margi is absolutely rocking this interview!
Wow - a story similar to mine, except I came from an evangelical church. I specifically chose not to raise my kids with the burden of an organized religion that pushes end days, fear, shame, and judgement.
You cut Josh off before he could finish telling about the call from the guy who sent him home from his mission early. I would like to hear how he handled the call.
He wanted to meet up, wanted to check in on me. See if I was still progressing and following all the checklist and to do items of Mormonism. I never did.
John, I am glad you mentioned Bruce R. McKonkie's book "Mormon Doctrine." Those teachings were strong in my upbringing. I'm curious, was anybody else taught that in the spirit world, before God sends us to the kingdom of glory in which we would be assigned, that a "video" of our life would be played for all to see? That always petrified me, especially as a kid. Thank you, Kim and Josh for sharing your stories with us. Watching this, I can feel the love, care, and concern that Josh has for his wife, Kim. That warms my heart tremendously.
I loved this story. Both of them were so vulnerable. Josh seems like such a sweet man, and I'm so sorry that his mission was ruined in that way. I am glad he found a loving partner, and glad to see that he gives her love and support in return. A really inspirational couple. I subscribed to their youtube channel
Shades of Chad Daybell. Never reached where he thought he should be in the church. Tammy was supporting them. Pumping himself up with doomsday books and the pepper movement.
I can relate to this story, in regards to the, "people pleasing aspect." This is attempting to prove our worth to others... It's a sick way of getting approval, which is not healthy! I'm still unlearning things that I learned while growing up in the Mormon church. 🙃
Regarding all the prepping “mythology” this isn’t new. The internet really ramped it up. My father in law had my wife convinced from a young age they would have to walk to Jackson County Missouri. This was the teaching of leaders and authors of men like Cleon Skousen, and Ezra Benson. The prepping has mingled with the extreme right of political spectrum.
Yep, my experiences with this pepper mentality started when I was living in Pocatello, Idaho and continued on after we moved to Gresham, Oregon, and Vancouver, Washington. When I left the church and moved to Florida in 2018, I left the pepper stuff all behind. Thousands and thousands of dollars worth, i just gave it all away.
1:44:00 I want to highlight how Josh is behaving here because it's so mature and supportive. He's clearly having an emotional reaction to what she is saying, but he is offering comfort and support via his hand on her leg and well placed nods, he is letting her continue to talk without interruption, he is not calling attention to the fact that he is having a response as well, and is not making it about him. I often see well meaning friends/relatives having an emotional response to a loved one's trauma, but instead of keeping the focus on the person the events actually happened to (where it belongs) they make it about themselves, so rather than offering support to the actual victim they end up essentially forcing their loved one to comfort them. I understand why it happens, but it shows your loved one that you can't be trusted to support them through difficult emotions without flipping it around to be about yourself. I wish more people would be like Josh in this situation.
Yes, and unfortunately a lot of times that response is anger. I know for myself, that anger makes me retreat and sometimes even try to protect the person who everyone is angry at. I really appreciate that he just listened and let her have her own feelings. So refreshing to see.
The Mormon prophesy is that:being prepared will be as essential as Noah entering the Arch. In other words, if you're not prepared,you will be destroyed
@@joshcoffinator 1:44:41 This comment is spot on 💯 I am listening to this again 10 mos later. I have so much love and respect for you and Kim, Josh. You guys have been through it, and your love shines so beautifully. You are fortunate to have one another. Stay strong. I would love to be friends with both of you incredible humans 🤍
Wow! I've lived in Utah as a never mormon since I was 10. This gives me a whole new perspective on things. As a non mormon kid in Utah I felt ostracized and grew a major resentment against mormons. I was the teen girl who was rejected by the boyfriends family and it was painful. I've never heard about things from a mormon's perspective until now. What a great platform to create awareness, connection, and understanding. I have a new understanding and appreciation for what goes on behind closed doors. ❤🙏I wish healing for you both and for all experiencing these things.
Wow, surprised to see Josh here, cause I knew him from when I started doing my accounting degree back in 2012 at BYU-I. He is spot on about the the feeling of a women’s degree being less important, that women were getting their degree as a “back up” in case the man in their marriage couldn’t provide. Growing up LDS in California some of that Idaho Rexburg bubble mentality was certainly tiresome at times - like one time the scroll newsletter had a wedding checklist on its front page lol! I felt like an outlier at times cause there really were only like 3-4 women to a class of 30, and then shocked to see the accounting profession is more like 50/50! Thanks for sharing both of your stories, it is very insightful, can’t wait for part 2 :)
Kim, if you see this - kudos to you on speaking out. I hope it helps to lift (at least some of) the weight caused by the association with your father. We are not responsible for our parents but we sure are responsible for healing from them! Josh, my goodness! You seem so wise for your age. Both of you, actually. Thank you for being such an amazingly supportive partner. Giving hope to some of us who've been in the opposite kind of relationships. Wishing you both a lifetime of health, happiness and healing. 💙
I watched the whole thing twice. I’m not ex Mormon and my experiences are not nearly as extreme as what’s described here, but Kim is able to describe things in such a relatable way to anyone that’s experienced abuse in their family. I’m glad they have each other.
100%. This is the kind of coupling I’d love for myself or my kids. Having a partner who truly supports you and your growth entirely, cares deeply and is a vulnerable safe spot, knowing the beauty of appreciating imperfection, with love, together. My traumatic upbringing led me to choose an abusive partner. This led to a lot of consequences. Life is a learning journey and I know learning can be painful. But having a true partner by your side through it is a wonderful gift. ❤️
Great episode…looking forward to part 2. Grateful they are willing to share their stories. They are such lovely humans and a sweet couple. Kim - as a crafter and quilter I’m looking forward to checking out your channel!
It's like a caste system or like shunning of individuals. What kind of miserable people would do this to a brother? Did they never hear judge not lest ye be judged?
I was wondering if Roger K Young would come up! My dad was deep in it with him and i learned out of the original self published versions of those books and had a similar childhood. Chilling and validating to listen. I really relate to Margie bringing up the high cortisol- mine was sky high my ENTIRE childhood. The hypervigilance and anxiety was crippling even now as an adult. i have major medical issues from it and it’s taken 10 years if therapy to get out of continuous fight/flight etc. CPTSD does not even begin to describe.
She's telling my story of a people pleaser and being abused sexually, but I never connected it to my scrupulosity (spelling?). I feel like I'm listening to my story
Found you from Jessie Hildebrant interview! What a great interview. My maternal grandmother is Helen Coffin from Idaho! I have heard all Coffins are related somehow. I was born Mormon but my parents got out when I was in grade school. I am in Vancouver Washington
Thank you for sharing your Mormon Story. It is very sad that families live in such paranoia, fear & shame. Margie is a brilliant supportive therapist. Thank you Margie for finding and sharing the light.
All of this prepper stuff is really fascinating to me in such a strange way - I mean buying cigarettes/alcohol to have on hand to barter with the sinners? Seriously??? And Kim’s mom working as a teacher while her dad prepped and did not contribute financially - that was the EXACT SAME PATTERN as Chad and Tammy Daybell. It just floored me on so many levels! Plus this earthquake that is supposed to happen in SLC? Well duh, science has shown that there is a huge fault line all along the wasatch front and that an earthquake is inevitable at some point in time - yet the preppers will claim it was their prophecy being fulfilled 🤔🤔🤔
The whole story of both of them is so sad. Also sad is the number of converts they get during their missions. This cult needs to be curtailed, not spread out to make more people miserable and brainwashed.
It's fascinating to hear about Mormon preppers! Far more fascinating and relatable for me than I thought it would be. I was raised Mormon, but I didn't feel that I was raised with this prepper mindset, yet as I listen, so much of this resonates with my experience and how I internalized what I grew up in. I think the years when the church struggled financially were traumatic, and have led to a deepening of the hoarding tendencies in the church. I grew up when a year supply of food was really being pushed consistently, and it permeated how I saw the world. I also watched how empty shelves during 2020 triggered my mom's fears. The church really cultivated fear of not being worthy, and not having enough, and not being safe or good enough. I felt and internalized all of this, even growing up in (what I feel was) a very moderate Mormon home. I feel like learning about different fundamentalist and extremist Mormon views is really helping me trace back to roots of iasues I couldn't see before (if that makes sense). I'm grateful to this beautiful couple for sharing their stories, and I'm so glad I decided to watch this episode! I'm here for all the prepper episodes to come! ❤️❤️❤️
"If your body was covered, you were safer." This pierced my heart. As a survivor who has struggled with body issues for more than 50 years, this was an ah-ha moment. I've long been aware that I dress in an attempt to deflect male attention, but I have never voiced this as being covered by clothes = increased safety. Now that I see this about myself, I can see how clothing-safety extends beyond not wearing low cut tops. Boots with thick tights, scarves, gloves, hats, lots of layers. I never had an issue with wearing a face mask to reduce the transmission of viruses. I could be even more covered and safe. Thank you for voicing your truth; your truth has helped me to discover more of my own truth. 💞
I want to thank Kim so much for being brave enough to talk about her story. I also love seeing Josh being so supportive right beside her.
Thank you, Jessica! I couldn't have done it without Josh by my side! :)
My sister was involved in that group AVOW years ago when Julie Rowe was going around to Stake centers talking about her NDEs! She too spent all her 401k that she had accumulated through the years.. I had no idea at the time why she quit her job and took her 401k out. It was all about the narrative that this woman was spewing and also the book visions of glory had much to do with it as my sister also loved that book and took it as almost Doctrine.. Today she is quite embarrassed that she was so misled but she lost soo much in the process.. After the Chad and Lori daybell issue she got out of the group. It makes me wonder had that not happened that she would still be all in
I’m so sorry to hear she went through this. I've heard many similar stories and its heartbreaking! That was part of my reason for speaking out about this.
I hope she knows she's not alone. ❤ Many people have been duped by Avow.
Part of the Chad Daybell, Lori Vallow circle.@@ah5721
@@ah5721Julie Rowe is an author who was published by Chad Daybell. She wrote of near death experiences
So many Mormon stories match my evangelical upbringing in the 80s and 90s. I have been deconstructing for 20 years but these stories still help so very much. Thank you Josh and Kim for sharing. ❤
Your Mormon Stories billboard is really close to Rigby.
Thank you for sharing this! Josh's description of what an LDS mission was like (around 2:45:00) resonated with me so much. Even all these years after my mission, it's so comforting to hear that I'm not alone in my feelings. ❤
Thank you!
I started having severe intrusive thoughts when I was 14. I remember thinking demons were attacking me and religious leaders around me reinforcing this idea. I went undiagnosed for 13 years because of this. After my ocd diagnosis and treatment my suffering dropped off significantly within two months.
My father's family were Southern Baptist people from Texas and they all had contempt for mental health issues or mental health professionals as well
Not all Southern Baptist feels that way.
@@fredcuzick-sb4sy it's gotten better. I am 70 so I'm talking a while back
The children are totally at the mercy (or absence) of the parents' insanity. . So heartbreaking. Yet I can't help but think that the mass insanity, delusion and paranoia cause large groups of people to to look at any but the most rigidly righteous as evil and a threat, then possibly we all are at the mercy of that type of insanity. I'm not one to blame mental health but she is describing thinking and behavior that is truly diagnosable. Follie au deux en masses. Have you ever considered looking at this perspective or is it just too unwieldy? Still so incredibly dangerous depending on what their "visions" are telling them.
The one true church keeps wounding hearts, sometimes fatally. I'm sorry for everything each of you have suffered. The more storiesI hear, and the more I learn what happened to me. The more amazed I am that there are not more suicides from the mind fu__ and broken spirits the Church produces. Shame on the top leaders and any others who are complicit with the abuse being done.
Tammy Daybell was the steady breadwinner in her family too while Chad was off preping and trying to make it big. 🤦♀️
Also, just like Chad, he is an underachiever within the Mormon mainstream who decided to create his own status.
The way this husband deeply cares for his wife….. heart warming x
Its so sweet!
He’s so caring. Very loving couple ❤️
He's incredible! ❤️ We are lucky to have found each other when we did! I can't imagine doing life without Josh by my side!!
And she is a sweet adoring wife. They are beautiful.
What’s beautiful is that they love each other so much more than either of their parents loved their spouses…they broke the mold.
My son came back home from his Mission 6 month earlier due to an accident caused him to have brain concussion. After he recovered from his injury, he tried to date. And the first question every girl asked him was something like "So did you serve a Mission?" followed by "Did you complete 2 year-mission?" Then, "why did you come home earlier?" At the end, he married a career-driven woman who cared none of those. She loves my son unconditionally.
I'm so glad your son found love based on him and not his "works"! ❤❤❤
I’m so sorry to hear your son experienced that! But so happy he found someone who loves him! ❤️
My WASP ex LDS sons gf here in utah is GASP a mexican non practicing Catholic and we couldn’t be happier. Sorry LDS girls you’ll be missing out on an honest hilarious brilliant handsome tall strong one and he gonna be making a lotta $$ one day 🥴🤷🏻♀️ Darnit if only whether you did or didn’t serve a mish wasn’t so unreasonably expected.
Carrier driven and unconditional love don't match.
@@kkk2419your comment isn’t loving
I want to let Josh know he truly was beyond his years when he chose to respect the privacy of the other Elders. Only a person with a true sense of honor would act in that capacity. The irony of an institution that considers itself honorable, could glean so much from your example. This to me is an uplifting story of strength… I could go on and on - Respect Josh !
I can’t get over how sweet and supportive they are to each other 😭beautiful people 💖
I *so* appreciate that y'all took the time to show Josh that he was ethically correct and sound in his refusal to turn in his peers and take care of himself. He so clearly needed to hear it and in that moment we got to see him have the maternal response he so deserved. Thank you.
Thank you!
That was so beautiful and touching. Margi is so kind and Josh deserves all the credit for his time and the honor of his ethics.
I hope that made sense.
Who would have thought that i would be watching the story of Josh Coffins faith journey on Mormon Stories . All the support to the Coffin family. His friend group often intermingled with mine in high school and can't stress enough how great of a guy he is.
Look who it is! I see you already started watching this lol
Thanks Mark!! Super appreciate your kind support!
This is the best thing ever. Made my day to see this on my TH-cam feed today.
Love to hear this
Can y'all go find that mission president and rip him a new one for me? I'm just an old, once Catholic now atheist lady trying to survive in the South, but Josh's mission story has me wild. Josh, you did not deserve that and it was a truly evil thing to do to you. You both are amazing and thank you for sharing all of this. ❤️❤️❤️
Thanks John and Margie for showing so much compassion for Josh and Kim in telling their amazing story. It gave a lot of background to all the sad stories circulating right now involving child murder and child abuse. Josh and Kim I wish only the best for you both as you continue your journey. Your discernment and courage shines bright.
Thank you to Mormon Stories for explaining what scrupulosity is and how it impacts people. I had never heard the term prior to hearing the issue discussed on Mormon Stories two years ago. It absolutely explains my experience as a youth in the church and the fear and anxiety that I lived with for so long. It also made leaving the church so much more difficult. My heart goes out to everyone who struggles with this. ❤
I first learned about Scrupulosity from MS as well. I'm so grateful for that knowledge and the opportunity to share my experience with it as well.
I love how Josh seems like an actual feminist. Not many men that I have met even seem able to see sexist issues.
He really is! He spent time working with a therapist specializing in feminism (after we left the LDS church) so that he could unlearn what he had learned in the church and become a better father and husband. ❤
@@SweetRedPoppythat’s amazing!! 😻
This is beautiful. Makes me feel hopeful for the world.
There's a difference between being a regular person and a feminist. Don't insult the man
@@SweetRedPoppythat’s amazing! You guys are an awesome couple!!
Went to Highschool with Josh and his brother! Wow you never know who is an exmo these days!
Is this Jordan!!? Which Jordan? ❤️
I was so touched and inspired by Josh's mission story. It inspires me to the highest levels to know he gave up so much that could have made him look good to be true to his own ethics. His Mom was right in a weird warped way..... he's a diamond in the rough. At least that's how I see it. ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you! 🙏 ❤ 🥹
So appreciative of Kim & her husband sharing their story. ❤
Thank you!
I’m older, 63 female EXmo. Omg, I’m finding this young couple so interesting. They could mirror my whole life. I’m so happy that they found out that this is a shame based religion. I’m so happy they got proper therapy! Unfortunately, I found out too late, but I’m trying to rebuild myself. I’m one of those moms that lived for her kids. Now that I’m not in the church, I have No community. I’m having to almost relearn to re-parent my kids and myself.
The church really hurt my self esteem and confidence. I always felt inferior as I didn’t want my boys to go on a mission. I would mention that to other women and then was avoided like I had some evil demon in me.
I know it’s going to probably take the rest of my life to undo everything!
Kudos ❤to this couple.
Norah, SO PROUD of you for turning things around for you and your kids! It's hard. I'm 43 and deconstructing from regular Christianity/evangelical and it's hard. I wish you and your kids the best! ❤
I think it's amazing that you are rebuilding, relearning, and reparenting! ❤
The question of if there were places of softness for her made me immediately tear up. What a tender and insightful question.
This had me in a flood of tears. I feel so much empathy for Kim and admiration for the person she has become despite this deeply traumatic upbringing. This has strengthened my resolve to keep teaching my own daughter that she is unconditionally loved, that her body is hers, and that she always has people in her corner who will believe and support her.
❤❤
Your comment has me in tears. Thank you for teaching your daughter these invaluable lessons. ❤
Gosh I sobbed along with her discussing her abuse. I want her to have the best life possible. My heart aches for her.
Prepping has not been covered properly in mainstream media, they really have made prepping acceptable without accountability
2:51:18 josh, thank you for crying. thank you for being vulnerable in these moments without shame. margie, thank you for hearing him. thank you for engaging with him and validating him over and over again. men's fears and pains and emotions regarding failure and not being seen and being heard are so often disregarded and minimized. this was very refreshing and very validating and very meaningful to watch. josh i am so sorry this happened to you and i hope you can heal and i hope you have people that love you and appreciate you and show you it every single day now. you deserve to be shown your worth and praised for your hard work. you and kim make an amazing team and when you sit together and speak together your fortitude shines. i'm sorry you have both had to be so resilient throughout all of this.
These two are the most beautiful couple. Her response to him after his mission was so moving ❤
I was also scared of being seen in the tub, shower or dressing. Even going to the bathroom. They were always able to see us. So scary as a kid!
🎉good stories John
Bob Funk😊
Ditto! I also disliked that Santa could see me naked!
@whenimonmymoon6822 yes! And santa🤣🤣 more afraid of heavenly father, Jesus & the holy ghost but this Santa comment cracks me up. I was only scared of him seeing me around winter🙃
@kassystuart8874 hahaha, i recently used it as an example when talking to my mom about my religious trauma. I was like, y'all didn't mean for me to take "he sees all" as "he pops in while I shower" but that concept was so ingrained it made me nervous about Santa, too! The other example I used was as a kid we weren't allowed to wear "jelly shoes" nc they were expensive and had no support, however, my sisters and I were so trained in purity culture we assumed it's bc they were somehow slutty/immodest. 🤷♀️
Me too friend. This episode brings back a lot of emotion and helps me see where I grew to be so hyper vigilant and scrupulous. It was required of me, it’s the only way I could exist in that environment.
Watching Josh watch Kim tell her story is so sweet. He clearly is so pained by her pain and cares for her so much. Sending love to both of them ❤
It’s been a long journey, she’s so brave! Therapy has helped us so much 🙏
The idea that someone is perhaps not righteous enough being the reason for mental health issues hits too close to home for me- my daughter was told the same thing by a seminary teacher, that if she read her scriptures more and prayed more her depression wouldn't be as bad. She never went back after that, and I sure wasn't about to make her go. We talked to leadership about this and nothing was done to remove the teacher from the calling and she is still teaching the youth in spite of other bad experiences I won't go into. It was the beginning of her process of leaving, and mine as well.
I grew up in an evangelical Christian home and relate to 90% of what these two have shared here. Minus the prepper stuff and the sexual abuse (I did experience other types of abuse) i could be saying these same words. So just sharing yo to show that this isn’t just happening within morman religious communities. So heartbreaking!
I LOVE Margies perspective of Josh 'standing up' for himself. Proud of you, Josh!! My son didnt graduate from seminary because he was HONEST in telling the truth of not reading all the scriptures that were required of them. How many seminary students are really being truthful about their reading. My son felt honesty was more important. Great things will come your way, Josh, because of how you stand up.
Thank you for those kind words! Means a lot 🥹
I have a child who has struggled severely with OCD, so much of what Kim say strikes home. It's one of the reasons we initially took steps away from the church seeing how negatively the purity culture affected her.
Thanks for sharing Kim, I will be sharing this with her.
You're so welcome! It was one of the things that caused us to take a step back, too. Seeing my daughter have OCD-like tendencies and knowing how damaging that could be for her made us really question what we were doing.
This is a fascinating and familiar story. BTW, preppers do NOT like it when others disclose their gun collections. That knowledge is sacrosanct.
Braxton Southwick, Lori Vallow/Daybells cousin speaks about his prepping and gun collection on the Hidden True Crime channel. He loves the Visions of Glory book and is quite scary to me.
Dear Josh, I just don't believe you were sent home for breaking the rules, you were sent home for failing to comply to the demand that you give evidence against all your fellow missionaries. You acted with honour not to give up that information to a new president. Sure he wants to clean things up, but that can be done without you giving information on historical behaviour. Your honour is more than in tact. It so wasn't about you breaking the rules.... That was just a lever the new president hoped to manipulate you with and when he could'nt (because you were too honourable) he used your minor rule breaking to punish you. Very shoddy of him as he clearly realised later.... ❤
I grew up mormon in New Zealand during the 80s and 90s.
My parents were extremely conservative, extremely strict, and food storage was of massive importance.
I too grew up with fear and anxiety being the main emotional state, and it’s impacted my adult life in a big way.
I’m not diagnosed OCD, however my mother definitely had/s it (also undiagnosed, and not the only mental health issue - I believe), and it played a huge role in my development.
Scrupulosity was absolutely what I experienced growing up mormon, along with many other mental health struggles - I was also diagnosed with Autism at 36, and I believe this also hugely impacted how I grew up and all the struggles I am dealing with now (40), due to how I perceived the world around me.
My parents also have a bias against professional mental healthcare - they still now will not seek out therapy, even though they really could benefit from it. I never knew the concept of mental health or wellness - I internalised it as a failure on my part, and developed a strong core belief that I was fundamentally flawed. This led to ongoing suicidal thoughts and even attempts, all of which I kept hidden, because of the negative messaging I received.
I really relate to Kim’s story and appreciate the podcast! It’s always comforting to feel like you’re not alone.
My heart breaks listening to Kim speak about her father - I too had a super strict and controlling father, who was physically abusive, as well as psychologically and emotionally abusive, and I feared him.
Like Kim, I never felt safe at home, and would isolate myself in my room.
Sarah, I am so so so sorry that you went through this. It sounds nightmarish. 😢 Sending you the biggest of hugs! ❤
This interview really pulled on my heart strings. I love these 2 humans❣ I'm so humbled by their story. Thank you for your courage and for sharing this highly valuable story. I subscribed to sweetredpoppy on YT. So excited.
❤❤❤
I, like many non- Mormons, started watching Mormon Stories to get insight around some of the recent crimes that have happened involving the LDS community. This particular episode has been so enlightening and informative about the actual experiences of young Mormons. This couple is so loving and kind and their experiences are heartbreaking. They are so lucky to have each other and to have come out on the other side stronger and wiser. Thank you to MS for sharing their story and much love to the Coffin family as they continue to heal. ❤
Is Scarlett Letter a book Mormons can read? Public shaming and group dynamic intimidation and fear traumatized this wonderful, gentle and honest man. 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
Who else is in love with this super supportive husband?
Thank you Kim and Josh for sharing your story.
Thank you. I’m from Idaho, and generations have been terrorized from AVOW and the survivalists have TERRIFIED and runnier thousands of lives for decades. Our water use to get shut off between my Mons tithing and prepping. I don’t know how we didn’t all end up like JJ and Tylee. I’m still watching but if this is one of Chris and Sues daughters I’m glad you made it out the other side. That IS the miracle!!
Damn it! I didn’t plan on crying! Big hugs to her!❤
My church life 74-08....the notions of evil spirits etc....virtually nonexistent. I could confidently say that it was not in the manuals...except maybe the story of the evil spirits going into swine. But that was never about me feeling threatened by being surrounded by evil spirits....or definitely not concerned about evil spirits possessing my body. I consistently see a big difference geographically and culturally with the Mormon experience.
Wait! I have Mormon family....I NEVER knew they had to pay for their own missions!
Not only are they working day in and day out, without pay. But the fact that they pay to do it! That's unacceptable. I always thought part of the tithing was to pay for missionaries.
Oh Kim, I connect so much with you. I too grew up in a home that was restrictive and depressed. I was raised as a Jehovah Witness and left when I was eighteen. LDS beliefs are very similar. My Father was high up within the organization as well. . I too have some good memories but when there’s more negative times it does wash out the good ones at times. I too played outside a lot too. I wasn’t allowed to have friends outside the organization nor participate in school activities. I never felt I was enough or a good person.. My gosh the fear was paralyzing throughout my life. Most of my life I felt I left the only true religion. I can say through great therapy, learning to be open minded, I have grown but not without pain. Shunning is so damaging if I allow it.. I realize my parents raised me and my siblings the only way they knew how but most importantly that any religion is man made. My spirituality is better than ever and I do have purpose. I’m worthy of Gods love, we all are. Josh, you remind me so much of my husband. You two are building your lives so beautifully. Thank you for sharing your stories. 56:28
There is nothing sweeter to see than spouses who are proud of one another. I love that they acknowledge they married to young, are happy to be married, and clearly champion one another. ❤
❤️ thanks so much!
I’m so glad they addressed the issue of purity culture causing young marriage. It’s one of the unhealthy effects of LDS culture.
When i received my Patriarchal Blessings I was told I would live to the second coming and when i started talking about this with others who had received their blessing they had the same thing in theirs. The CallOut was something we were told we had to be ready for, our seminary teacher grabbed on to our blessings and suddenly we were being taught the importance of being ready for the tribulations that would come before the return. When President Hinkley gave his conference talk on Joseph interpreting the dream of Pharoh and our need to he prepared for our 7 years of famine it ramped up again. Their obsession with the end of the world was disturbing to me as a teenager and now as a 40 year old woman my heart breaks for how much damage is done to kids mentally with this crap.
I remember trying to shower as quickly as possible for fear of being naked if "something" happened and getting dressed UNDER my towel in my room because I didn't want anything to see me naked. And when I talked to my mom about it she brushed it off as "well that isn't what the church means" yet my mom or my teachers would say that we're constantly being watched and every act written down. That we would see a film of our lives and everyone would see our every sin at judgement. It is a truly destructive environment for anyone but especially children.
Grew up in Poky and Rigby. This video is so so impactful to me. My goodness. I will have to watch this a few times.
So astute about her dad. She is so empathetic I'm a licensed therapist and using my education differently right now Parentification and Triagulation for sure. I know about parentification and experienced it. it's a lot of pressure and very painful.Hearing her sexual abuse was heartbreaking.Oh Josh, so sorry too. I'm so glad you and Kim found each other! ❤ I'm a licensed clinical social worker in California never Mormon. I relate to many of these stories because I am hard on myself too because of the abuse I suffered. Sending so much love and admiration for both of you. ❤
I love her crafting channel! She has a great mask tutorial.
Sounds like a lot of people use religion as an excuse to abuse others.
I was raised as a Catholic in the 60’s and 70’s and it was drilled into me that if I committed a mortal sin and died that night, I’d go to 🔥As a female who had so much Catholic guilt and shame for things I never did, it was easy to see how I would end up in toxic relationships. Also, our priest was abusing the altar boys at that time, but it was not spoken about until 2018 when the Catholic Church agreed to list the names of priests who they had validated issues of molestation. Of course, that specific priest was already deceased and so was my brother who was an altar boy during the time of this priests tenure at our church. Ironically, the priest lived about 30 years longer than my brother. Imagine going to confession to someone who is molesting children. This is why these stories like the Coffins need to come out. Not saying there was SA involved with them, but how abuse is covered up, hidden and accepted under the guise of religion.
When I was raped after my husband died, I was almost excommunicated. There was anything BUT support. I can so identify with when you mentioned how your family members questioned how was the girl/woman dressed, etc., as to why she had this happen to her. There is a bias in the church regarding ‘sexual sin’. Men who sexually abuse others, are worked with….their temple recommends are not taken away, etc. But a woman? I was raped and lost my temple recommend, was told not to partake of the sacrament, had to do 100% visiting teaching, and was assigned to read the book; The Miracle Of Forgiveness.
That horrible, asinine book, was like rubbing salt into my wounds! When I told an LDS psychologist about all of this, he was incredulous over how I was dealt with by the Bishop. He also said that the Miracle Of Forgiveness book was required reading when he was in young men’s. He said that they thought that they were all going to go to hell, after reading it! It is a HORRIBLE book! To show the picture of Christ on the cover, and call it The Miracle Of Forgiveness, was a twisted form of mental abuse by the church!
I find the focus on the second coming as a stealer of joy and any sense of hope for the future. If all these horrible things are imminent, how do you possibly have any ability to plan a future that includes love and happiness? How do you make plans for normal human joys when in any moment your reality could change in an instant?
I am Irish and catholic and our education was not really religious and it did not frame my morals or ideas. My personal morals were based on common sense. Treat others the way you would like to be treated. Everyone in this world is conceived the same way so all humans are equal
@bernadetteoriorden Same here. I attended convent schools, but they never framed my morals or ideas. Parents taught by example. We were never bullied by religion. I'm shocked at how this woman's father behaved. Nothing Christian in him.
I just love how you explained your education experience in the Catholic church. I'm glad to know that's how it goes on there.
Thank God for my parents who let us be US!!We were raised catholic but we were never censored, all questions were answered they let us enjoy our childhood, they taught us love Jesus by loving, being generous, to be respectful and never judge others.
I think that you have to be honest here. She was NOT raised in a normal functioning Mormon household. It is wrong to blame the LDS church for those you choose to practice their own concept of Christ’s gospel. Unstable crazy father that the “church” did not breed. This man would have been crazy with or without the church!
We made it very clear throughout the episode (multiple times) that I was raised in an extreme form of Mormonism.
@@SweetRedPoppyAll people with extreme believes acts like that, so the place to talk about this is not here, it will be with whom talks about how ANY EXTREME BELIVE affects the life of anybody who lives it. Because all this sounds more that attacking the Church principals, instead attack the roots of the issue “your Dad”
I’m telling this with all my respect and really understand your pain.
35:00 spare the rod, spoil the child" is one of the most misinterpreted versus that parents used. The rod was used by the Shepard to protect the sheep, keep them from danger, gently guide them on the path, and fight off predators. A Shepard would NEVER beat their sheep.
So true.
I was not a part of AVOW but was taught growing up that there would be some that would be called out, not all would make the track back to Missouri, only the very elect. So this belief had to predate the AVOW group. Im 48 for context.
Brother Josh: You served two months longer than those who did the 18-month era. Nice job! If your second mission Pres sincerely regretted his decision to send you home as he did, he could ask the Missionary Department to re-characterize your mission service, even if you are no longer a member.
I love this idea (if it was still meaningful to Josh and his family)
I totally get the tears about Legos… I dreamed and dreamed as a child about playing the guitar and was so excited when my parents got me a guitar and lessons, and then I started lessons and talking about it at school, and the other girls constantly talked about how “Boys play guitar! Girls play piano!” …and it was true that I only saw boys playing guitar at my teacher’s house, while the girls were always learning piano with his wife… they eventually wore me down, and I wanted approval so much I gave it up., and it was a great loss.
You can still learn it or take it up.❤
@@andreabeil3651came here to encourage her to start learning to play as well.
I hope she does.
So curious how parents control things they shouldn't at times. I wanted to learn flute, but my mother chose Clarinet for me. I don't know why. I had no real talent for it, but knew she would be disappointed of I quit, so I continued through Jr High. I probably would have sucked at the flute, too.
We were taught how God has prepared mansions for us in heaven, I’d always think because of my sins I would be happy with a tent in the back blocks as long as I get in. 😞
Mormonism sounds extremely exhausting.
Both physically and mentally.
I'm so grateful I've never belonged to any organized religion.
Such a powerful episode
Listening to josh explain the aftermath of being sent home early made me cry.
❤️ 🥹 🙏
@joshcoffinator You are a sensitive, caring, intelligent, insightful young man. You did the right thing by not being a tattle-tale to your mission companions. Their choices ARE between them and God. You chose to value their personal choice, their personal agency and let them guide their futures. Josh, this was a very mature thing to do under the circumstances. I hope you are able to fully take ownership of this very valuable quality. My heart broke for you as you told the story of being in Mexico and being sent home early. I wish you complete healing from the imposed trauma .. it takes time, you will continue to grow.
You two are amazing your people.
The story of Josh being sent home early was heartbreaking. Doesn't show well for the Church at all.
❤🥹🙏
This is a fascinating series!
I agree with that! mormons and Scientology both put narcissistic tendencies to the forefront. And also the competition becomes the addiction. Looks and accomplishments are the addiction since they can’t have it anywhere else in life.
I understand that this is entirely as a result of the way young Mormons are raised. But referring to 18-20 yo men as elders while women are girls but teenage girls are tempting grown men is infuriating.
Sweet Red Poppy has been my go to for so much sewing advice! Thank you, Kim and Josh, for sharing your stories. I think your words are going to help so many people. Also, Margi is absolutely rocking this interview!
Thank you for the sweet words!! Margi really does rock!❤
Wow - a story similar to mine, except I came from an evangelical church. I specifically chose not to raise my kids with the burden of an organized religion that pushes end days, fear, shame, and judgement.
You cut Josh off before he could finish telling about the call from the guy who sent him home from his mission early. I would like to hear how he handled the call.
He wanted to meet up, wanted to check in on me. See if I was still progressing and following all the checklist and to do items of Mormonism. I never did.
John, I am glad you mentioned Bruce R. McKonkie's book "Mormon Doctrine." Those teachings were strong in my upbringing. I'm curious, was anybody else taught that in the spirit world, before God sends us to the kingdom of glory in which we would be assigned, that a "video" of our life would be played for all to see? That always petrified me, especially as a kid. Thank you, Kim and Josh for sharing your stories with us. Watching this, I can feel the love, care, and concern that Josh has for his wife, Kim. That warms my heart tremendously.
I loved this story. Both of them were so vulnerable. Josh seems like such a sweet man, and I'm so sorry that his mission was ruined in that way. I am glad he found a loving partner, and glad to see that he gives her love and support in return. A really inspirational couple. I subscribed to their youtube channel
Shades of Chad Daybell. Never reached where he thought he should be in the church. Tammy was supporting them. Pumping himself up with doomsday books and the pepper movement.
I can relate to this story, in regards to the, "people pleasing aspect." This is attempting to prove our worth to others... It's a sick way of getting approval, which is not healthy! I'm still unlearning things that I learned while growing up in the Mormon church. 🙃
Regarding all the prepping “mythology” this isn’t new. The internet really ramped it up. My father in law had my wife convinced from a young age they would have to walk to Jackson County Missouri.
This was the teaching of leaders and authors of men like Cleon Skousen, and Ezra Benson. The prepping has mingled with the extreme right of political spectrum.
OMG I am sooooo excited for this episode! It’s always a good day when MSP posts a video! ❤️
Yep, my experiences with this pepper mentality started when I was living in Pocatello, Idaho and continued on after we moved to Gresham, Oregon, and Vancouver, Washington.
When I left the church and moved to Florida in 2018, I left the pepper stuff all behind. Thousands and thousands of dollars worth, i just gave it all away.
I bet you feel lighter. It sounds like such a heavy burden. You can just think of it as an expensive education. Also a shout out from Beaverton.!!
1:44:00 I want to highlight how Josh is behaving here because it's so mature and supportive. He's clearly having an emotional reaction to what she is saying, but he is offering comfort and support via his hand on her leg and well placed nods, he is letting her continue to talk without interruption, he is not calling attention to the fact that he is having a response as well, and is not making it about him. I often see well meaning friends/relatives having an emotional response to a loved one's trauma, but instead of keeping the focus on the person the events actually happened to (where it belongs) they make it about themselves, so rather than offering support to the actual victim they end up essentially forcing their loved one to comfort them. I understand why it happens, but it shows your loved one that you can't be trusted to support them through difficult emotions without flipping it around to be about yourself. I wish more people would be like Josh in this situation.
Wow thank you!
Yes, and unfortunately a lot of times that response is anger. I know for myself, that anger makes me retreat and sometimes even try to protect the person who everyone is angry at. I really appreciate that he just listened and let her have her own feelings. So refreshing to see.
The Mormon prophesy is that:being prepared will be as essential as Noah entering the Arch. In other words, if you're not prepared,you will be destroyed
@@joshcoffinator 1:44:41 This comment is spot on 💯 I am listening to this again 10 mos later. I have so much love and respect for you and Kim, Josh. You guys have been through it, and your love shines so beautifully. You are fortunate to have one another. Stay strong. I would love to be friends with both of you incredible humans 🤍
Wow! I've lived in Utah as a never mormon since I was 10. This gives me a whole new perspective on things. As a non mormon kid in Utah I felt ostracized and grew a major resentment against mormons. I was the teen girl who was rejected by the boyfriends family and it was painful.
I've never heard about things from a mormon's perspective until now. What a great platform to create awareness, connection, and understanding.
I have a new understanding and appreciation for what goes on behind closed doors.
❤🙏I wish healing for you both and for all experiencing these things.
Thank you!
I found that LDS were welcoming until they found out they couldn't convert you and then they wouldn't give you the time of day.
Wow, surprised to see Josh here, cause I knew him from when I started doing my accounting degree back in 2012 at BYU-I. He is spot on about the the feeling of a women’s degree being less important, that women were getting their degree as a “back up” in case the man in their marriage couldn’t provide. Growing up LDS in California some of that Idaho Rexburg bubble mentality was certainly tiresome at times - like one time the scroll newsletter had a wedding checklist on its front page lol! I felt like an outlier at times cause there really were only like 3-4 women to a class of 30, and then shocked to see the accounting profession is more like 50/50! Thanks for sharing both of your stories, it is very insightful, can’t wait for part 2 :)
Omg please reach out to me! Appreciate your comment!
Kim, if you see this - kudos to you on speaking out. I hope it helps to lift (at least some of) the weight caused by the association with your father. We are not responsible for our parents but we sure are responsible for healing from them!
Josh, my goodness! You seem so wise for your age. Both of you, actually. Thank you for being such an amazingly supportive partner. Giving hope to some of us who've been in the opposite kind of relationships.
Wishing you both a lifetime of health, happiness and healing. 💙
Thank you!! ❤️
I watched the whole thing twice. I’m not ex Mormon and my experiences are not nearly as extreme as what’s described here, but Kim is able to describe things in such a relatable way to anyone that’s experienced abuse in their family. I’m glad they have each other.
What a sweet and tender couple. I can just feel their deep sensitivity and kindness.
Wow, so kind! Thank you!
100%. This is the kind of coupling I’d love for myself or my kids.
Having a partner who truly supports you and your growth entirely, cares deeply and is a vulnerable safe spot, knowing the beauty of appreciating imperfection, with love, together.
My traumatic upbringing led me to choose an abusive partner. This led to a lot of consequences.
Life is a learning journey and I know learning can be painful. But having a true partner by your side through it is a wonderful gift. ❤️
Great episode…looking forward to part 2. Grateful they are willing to share their stories. They are such lovely humans and a sweet couple. Kim - as a crafter and quilter I’m looking forward to checking out your channel!
It's like a caste system or like shunning of individuals. What kind of miserable people would do this to a brother? Did they never hear judge not lest ye be judged?
I was wondering if Roger K Young would come up! My dad was deep in it with him and i learned out of the original self published versions of those books and had a similar childhood. Chilling and validating to listen. I really relate to Margie bringing up the high cortisol- mine was sky high my ENTIRE childhood. The hypervigilance and anxiety was crippling even now as an adult. i have major medical issues from it and it’s taken 10 years if therapy to get out of continuous fight/flight etc. CPTSD does not even begin to describe.
I’m so sorry! That’s so hard 😞
She's telling my story of a people pleaser and being abused sexually, but I never connected it to my scrupulosity (spelling?). I feel like I'm listening to my story
Found you from Jessie Hildebrant interview! What a great interview. My maternal grandmother is Helen Coffin from Idaho! I have heard all Coffins are related somehow. I was born Mormon but my parents got out when I was in grade school. I am in Vancouver Washington
Thank you for sharing your Mormon Story. It is very sad that families live in such paranoia, fear & shame. Margie is a brilliant supportive therapist. Thank you Margie for finding and sharing the light.
All of this prepper stuff is really fascinating to me in such a strange way - I mean buying cigarettes/alcohol to have on hand to barter with the sinners? Seriously??? And Kim’s mom working as a teacher while her dad prepped and did not contribute financially - that was the EXACT SAME PATTERN as Chad and Tammy Daybell. It just floored me on so many levels!
Plus this earthquake that is supposed to happen in SLC? Well duh, science has shown that there is a huge fault line all along the wasatch front and that an earthquake is inevitable at some point in time - yet the preppers will claim it was their prophecy being fulfilled 🤔🤔🤔
The whole story of both of them is so sad. Also sad is the number of converts they get during their missions. This cult needs to be curtailed, not spread out to make more people miserable and brainwashed.
It's so huge though. Millions all over the world.
I thought I had an abusive childhood. My childhood was a breeze compared to what this young lady had to go through.
Margi does such a great job. Have her on more.
I can’t wait to part 2! Isn’t it amazing they found each other?💖 They both have so much love and integrity; and they are growing together.💖
It's fascinating to hear about Mormon preppers! Far more fascinating and relatable for me than I thought it would be. I was raised Mormon, but I didn't feel that I was raised with this prepper mindset, yet as I listen, so much of this resonates with my experience and how I internalized what I grew up in. I think the years when the church struggled financially were traumatic, and have led to a deepening of the hoarding tendencies in the church. I grew up when a year supply of food was really being pushed consistently, and it permeated how I saw the world. I also watched how empty shelves during 2020 triggered my mom's fears. The church really cultivated fear of not being worthy, and not having enough, and not being safe or good enough. I felt and internalized all of this, even growing up in (what I feel was) a very moderate Mormon home. I feel like learning about different fundamentalist and extremist Mormon views is really helping me trace back to roots of iasues I couldn't see before (if that makes sense). I'm grateful to this beautiful couple for sharing their stories, and I'm so glad I decided to watch this episode! I'm here for all the prepper episodes to come! ❤️❤️❤️
"If your body was covered, you were safer." This pierced my heart. As a survivor who has struggled with body issues for more than 50 years, this was an ah-ha moment. I've long been aware that I dress in an attempt to deflect male attention, but I have never voiced this as being covered by clothes = increased safety. Now that I see this about myself, I can see how clothing-safety extends beyond not wearing low cut tops. Boots with thick tights, scarves, gloves, hats, lots of layers. I never had an issue with wearing a face mask to reduce the transmission of viruses. I could be even more covered and safe. Thank you for voicing your truth; your truth has helped me to discover more of my own truth. 💞