It's also an attack on being able to reuse older devices. It can effectively make it like an android phone in the sense that if samsung says you're not getting the next version of Android, then there's nothing you can do because the bootloader is locked. Even if you stick with Windows, it's a tool to prevent you from staying up to date.
FYI, some Android phone bootloaders could indeed be unlocked so that other firmware and custom ROMs could be installed though, especially the Google Pixel and OnePlus phones.
i will never buy a phone that isn't known to at the very least be fully compatible with lineageos. samsungs are not always useless, just most of the ones that they sell in the USA. one example that I have is Samsung Galaxy A70 SM-A705FN . It is running LineageOS 20 Android 13 perfectly with full root. It took a ridiculously complicated process that requires logging in and out of a google account and setting the system clock back and forward, and every time i reboot the phone the remaining samsung part of the firmware does create a giant popup that says "This phone is not running samsung's official software your experience may be compromised" before allowing lineageos to boot, but it is really truly snapdragon samsung with lineageos and root
For the record, while you need Secure Boot disabled to first install Linux, you can then add the particular Linux installation to the list of permitted OSes & re-enable secure boot. You're not sacrificing the benefits secure boot offers.
It depends on whether the distro in question is using a Microsoft-signed shim out of the box. Not all do. Regardless, once you get your distro installed and install any additional drivers you might need, signing those drivers yourself for Secure Boot is really annoying and compromises the security of Secure Boot. No one is distributing signed drivers in their repositories (signed kernels yes, but not individual kernel modules), which is essential for sensible Secure Boot support. It should also be mentioned that motherboard manufactures can just take away booting from a USB drive. Strictly enforcing Secure Boot is not even the final form of this abuse. It’s just an easy one to get away with, since it looks like a security thing, but that’s only appearance. Secure Boot does not prevent infection; it just makes it harder for malware to hide itself as a part of the operating system. That’s really only useful if you have an antivirus, which makes sense on Windows but is seldom needed on Linux for a handful of reasons.
Isn't that only limited to Ubuntu, Fedora, and others that are signed by Microsoft? And how do I add an installation to the list? Last time I checked, I would need some software to sign the binaries myself and use it with secure boot fine. That's doable but requires to be done each time I would want to try something new.
I'm not terribly worried. Linux is growing. Steam on Linux has good performance. Coreboot may gain traction. There are mfrs geared towards Linux. Certain industries rely on it. If Microsoft doesn't do something with their trash os soon, I doubt logic board mfrs would wholesale buy in to their attempt.
4:58 "How do I disable Secure Boot when it's greyed out" Yep, that's exactly what I searched for hours with no clue before figuring out, I needed to enable "Setup Mode" that would remove my Product Key and disable Secure Boot automatically. That made me locked to Ubuntu and Fedora for a while but eventually fully gave up on Windows as it's barely usable these days with the heavily packed surveillance junkware running in the background. I hate how most Laptop manufacturers are locking up their users not just by hardware repair but by software too.
If corporations moved forward and even worked with Microsoft into making software/hardware level restrictions through ideas we wouldn't even be able to imagine currently, we could see similar domino effects to the likes of what Right-to-Repair faces today. There is a lot of money in siphoning out someone's ability to have the same freedoms that we have when it comes to owning a computer. Because the mainstream users who buy pre-built machines typically use Windows as a bootloader to open chrome and not much else. This is what makes these companies (in my eyes) ask the question, "Who is gonna stop us?" when they could make it so that your first three months or year of owning a computer is free, until it isn't. Linux being threatened sucks even more due to its lower user base compared to other OS's. If it slowly became harder to install onto newer systems, it could get effectively curbed without a fair amount of people noticing before it is too late. I hope something can be done to prevent this in the near future.
Thanks for the video! One simple example i would say is android phones that now come with no ability to unlock the bootloader that goes quite against the open nature of early android. I'm pretty sure that if the internet wasn't running on Linux, Windows would already be a total monopoly. Thank you again for raising awareness and reminding me that i should find time sooner rather than later to move as much of my computer usage i can to Linux which i keep putting off!
My Dad and I have the same phone - the Sony XZ1. My Dad's phone has a locked bootloader so in can only run android 9. However, my XZ1 is running android 12.1 (an unofficial lineage ROM) since the bootloader could be unlocked. There will be a time when my Dad's phone is no longer supported (and apps don't work) but I can keep updating my phone using community support. It's hard to believe that some devices will become obsolete since the manufacturers stop people updating the software themselves. Aren't we meant to be more green nowadays?
a) There's a reason you keep putting it off. b) "Android is Linux" I am constantly told on these sorts of videos and so often used as a way to boost the userbase figures to manipulate an argument.
@@QTMagicwe're only "green" when it benefits the bottom line of corporations. they'll sell you a more energy efficient appliance that's made of lighter materials (so that it uses less fuel being shipped halfway around the world, so efficient) than the locally-made model that your parents or grandparents had that would last forever with a little upkeep, as opposed to the new one that'll last around half a decade and can't easily be repaired so you have to buy a dozen of them over the course of your life. progress!
i didnt know that motherboards greyed out secure boot... first time hearing it and it instantly sounds scary knowing that i cannot choose what OS i want...
I got mine greyed out for a year and was only able to install fedora and ubuntu (other secure boot supported distro didn't work). I mailed the support team everyday to enable or just give me the old bios firmware and got no response until I started bugging them on social media, they updated the bios and enabled to option to turn on/off secure boot but still locked uefi/legacy switcher.
Last Windows I used, was 7. After that, I use XP and 7 for programs that don't work on Linux, and Lubuntu, Mint and Zorin for everything else. And all my computers are at least 14 years old.
With 250M+ computers not able to run win11... We need better options or we will be berried in E-waste. I was impressed by "Mint OS" recently as an option.
yes! i installed linux mint on my laptop recently and ive been loving it so far, it's very stable and has features and applications by default that i'll actually use
Sorry, TH-cam had a bug and I spammed the comments with the same messages in the comment prompt (I was on mobile), thinking "Why is the button not working?".
Is there a list of these manufacturers shipping motherboards with Secure Boot unable to be disabled? If so, can you post that list or put it in a pinned post or into the video description? I'm surprised you didn't call them out by name in the video. I would have.
I bought 2 Asus boards and they had SecureBoot&TPM disabled. it also had the "OS-Type" option in bios set to "OtherOS" instead of "WindowsX64". I also liked that they had made it possible to remove the Microsoft Keys from SB&TPM and I was able to load my own Keys instead which made it possible for me to have my ssd encrypted with TPM. Here are the board models: Asus Prime A320M-C R2.0 Asus Prime A620M-E I think this is the case with all Asus board not just these cuz as far as I know Asus uses the exact same bios for all of their products.
There are two kinds of computer users in the world... drivers and passengers. Drivers like to be in control of their system, and passengers are just along for the ride. Windows and MacOS users are passengers.
The statement you made serves as a generalization. 90% of the time it correct. But then there are the weirdos like me that use macOS and Linux (Fedora in my case) on the same system on bare metal. Plus, many Linux users can also be passengers. I’m sure many gamers that bought the steam deck don’t even know anything about daemons, bash, crontab, kernel upgrades, or anything else that “drivers” typically understand. I absolutely love to be in control of my system, but I prefer the macOS workflow for video editing as well as its very stable implementation of high fidelity audio. But I still keep a Linux partition for programming, testing out the latest FOSS software, and enhanced window management (macOS has the worst window manager in my opinion). I don’t mind using Apple’s weird bootloader if it means I get to utilize proprietary stuff on macOS and then all the fun linux GUI and CLI stuff on Fedora. But for most people who use macOS, yeah they are passengers. I personally would say “Most macOS and Windows users are passengers”. And this statement is true as most people that have computers aren’t hardware or software engineers. There are plenty of “drivers” with full control of their system (by using OSes that offer full kernel access) that may have a boot partition for Windows or macOS to runs specific applications that run better on those specific platforms. And if you don’t agree with me, that’s okay. Freedom to have opinions regarding tech is part of the philosophy behind systems like Linux.
@@grantschilb8019 People on a steamdeck are not using Linux by choice. They're using it because that's what it came with, and it's also a very dumbed down version of Linux.
@@JeffWaynee Very well thought out reply. I respect your opinion. I could write another paragraph on why I disagree, but I don't think that would be a valuable use of my time. A good question to ask though is what makes a Linux system dumbed down. Immutable filesystem? Simple game console UI? Limited root access? I'll leave that to you to answer for yourself. Of course, if you do want another long paragraph on why I disagree, then I can definitely reply when I have more time on my hands. Happy computing and may 2024 be the year of Linux desktop!!!
Macroscum can keeping kissing my tiny shiny hiney. I ditched Winblows ages ago. I only buy from Linux friendly companies and I strongly suggest everyone boycotts Macroscum.
This video makes a great point, and one that ive been trying to get through to people since the Win8 days. This is also why im excited to aee more ARM and RISC-V systems come to market, many of those soecifically being built with Linux in mind from the start. Windows-PC manufacturers who take away the right to disable secureboot, even temporarily will be responsible for a LOT of E-Waste in coming years.
newsflash, secure boot is a UEFI feature, it has nothing to do with windows and most arm cpu's fully support it. so don't get surprised when arm-risc-v cpus start to demand it to boot. the whole ms/windows is responsible for secure boot is idiotic, if you want to blame someone, blame intel/itanium for efi development. all pc motherboards from the last decade have uefi/sb on by default, but can be disabled, the problem is with laptops. ppl are barking at the wrong tree. and windows can be installed on uefi and non-uefi systems, the issue with win11 is tpm, but that can also be bypassed.
@@giornikitop5373"that can also be bypassed" this was addressed in the video; it can be bypassed _now._ Microsoft likely has a roadmap for making it genuinely difficult or impossible to do. I don't think they will succeed, but it's not for any lack of trying on their part.
So far I've not needed a MS account to use or install Windows 11. For secure boot, I've been able to install and enroll keys without issue on HP machines. Secure boot does have its own vulnerabilities, enabled or not.
I saw your vid on disabling the account requirement during install. It will be a handy resource if I ever cave on my demands for Microsoft to free Clippy and I have to use win 11 🙂. My main concerns are really just about workarounds becoming less accessible, and things generally moving in a troubling direction. We'll have to see how stuff plays out though, these are the kinds of things I wouldn't mind being wrong about 😄.
@@LowcastleTech I understand. I still got the OOBE workaround to work on 23H2. I actually think today it just let me set up a local account without the network connected like it used to.
Yes, Refusal to go along with this is the best way to go. Also, single bord computers are becoming more and more powerful all the time and because they tend to be geared toward the hackers and makers of the world, they are likely to stay free from this problem. There would be no point in lockdown a device that was made to be hackable or maker-friendly.
Secure boot is old news, it is a problem yes, but I thought this video was going to talk about The Cyber resiliency Act, I'm only just learning about it but it sounds like the biggest threat to Linux we have ever seen.
@@reezlaw I'm no expert but I have stumbled across several videos and written articles that talk about how it might be impossible for FOSS projects and even Linux to comply with. It's a complicated topic that I don't really know enough about yet.
@@Dargaard well I sure as hell hope you're wrong. Anyway it's still in the "proposed" phase and it's the EU, they have enacted several pro-consumer policies in recent years, I think they'll come around and change it so it doesn't hurt us
I'm always surprised that privacy isn't on more peoples list of concerns regarding Microsoft. Sure I hate them for being a giant tech monopoly but what really disgusts me is that they extract and sell my data. I switched from Windows to Mint this year and I will never go back to Mr. Softy. PS I don't recall having any issue with secure boot.
I'm writing this comment on Linux Mint =) Let's not forget that linux has UK DVORAK layout as a keyboard option while Windows only has US DVORAK. My ' key keeps changing position whenever I boot into windows!
Oh Hell YEA! Been a Linux n00b since '96/'97... Still my Daily Driver, I Still don't know how to use it lol. I haven't been able to find your Channel for a while, yt went haywire and skewed everything up! Well Done Sir!
I got a laptop recently and I ended up having to disable secure boot to install 3rd party drivers on Linux. I had a tough time disabling secure boot through the UEFI. I think computers should give the customer the choice on first boot to enable it or not, not having it on by default.
hey fellow Linux user, it may be worth putting out a revised version. everything you mentioned is correct, but I think the most common rebuttal from avarage users will be "if all Windows hardware is locked down with no workaround, couldn't I just switch to Apple?" or any of the handful of other proprietary systems like Chromebooks or tablets or what have you. If your computer was a house, Linux users often do the equivalent of ripping out the plumbing and HVAC to replace them with completely custom versions tailored to their needs. Average people pace around in one corner of one room, not even knowing that the door to the room is locked and there are cameras and microphones trained on them.
I agree with everything that you said in this video. I have one caveat though, in that, many modern Linux distros are able to play nice with secure boot.
There are work arounds which allow you to install win11 without having a MS account. Someone else pointed this out in the comments, but you can install linux and have it added to the safe OS's then enable secure boot. Also i don't know where you are located, but at least here in EU the governments won't allow monopoly, so that scare story with windows is a bit exadurated i think. However it may be true once you go outside EU. Personally i haven't used windows on my personal computer for a little time now and i have no plans of using it again unless it's in a VM.
Perhaps the greatest asset here is to actually use Linux. And, with stuff like the Steam Deck, many already are. If Linux is market viable, the whole 'secure boot' lockout won't be as prevalent. Linux, sadly, is geek hobby-ist territory still - though, honestly, I've had Linux boxes really throwing down against native Windows gaming. It certainly DESTROYS Mac OS on the same hardware (If you have a 5,1 Mac Pro from the bygone eras, it is really worth your time). My main PCs right now are both Windows boxes - only because discount keys are quite available and I'm testing Intel Arc stuff and letting my family have a reasonable experience with modern gaming, LOL. That said, I'm planning to return once I have thoroughly annihilated Baldur's Gate 3 to running Linux (probably PopOS, as honestly it is the best experience I've had to date. Garuda/Arch distros are way more customizable and tweakable - but shit, POP just works). Thanks for talking about Linux, especially for those of us who hate planned obsolescence!
@@naterest5033 When I initially set them up, they are rock solid - but I've had two 'builds' go funky after updates, though - be aware - I am tweaking for CRTs sometimes, and both have involved Mac hardware. PopOS, however, has been insanely durable for me - no matter how I tweak, it doesn't seem to break. I prefer Arch in a lot of ways, but I customized Pop to be nearly the same.
@@grimmpickins2559 PopOS is great, just that for me personally ubuntu or debian based systems are "way too stable" for my liking. "Way too stable", as in I don't have the latest drivers and apps for certain situations etc. So arch is just better for me, I always get the latest kernel with the latest fixes and the latest Nvidia drivers, since I have a GTX 980. I know that PopOS has an Nvidia ISO, still the "way too stable" stands in the way for me :)
wow, that is an important topic. but theres one even more important. lenovo soldering RAM onto thinkpads, and not the thin ones only either. T and L series, leaving only P series with two SODIMM slots.
it's Mint 21 and there's Mint debian edition(lmde) just in case ubuntu becomes unstable since debian was used to make ubuntu and this was made to make mint .
Only tinker with old computers and peripherals that are still yours. New equipment with soldered ram and irreparable components belong to the company, not to you. If I need to buy a new machine, it'll be a Framework.
As much as I like Framework's spirit, they're just a little too expensive for my budget. As such, there's no way I could afford the laptop immediately, but I agree with you. Too many company is taking soldered ram aproach, not to mention Apple having absolutely no choice for upgradable ram and ssd on their mobile lineup. Lenovo isn't better as well.
@@user-28qhfk65 Oh I know, but at least with Framework the RAM is not only not soldered on, you can buy the parts straight from them. People even buy the mainboards to make their own mini PCs. It's the idea the client owns the product and can repair it which is a throwback to last century. I will keep using older secondhand equipment as long as people drop it off at my place and I manage to keep it running. Hence Linux Mint seems more and more enticing.
Well, there will always exist alternatives : - Linux kernel/distributions will be Secure Boot capable. - possibility to crack Windows - possibility to flash the UEFI BIOS to deactivate Secure Boot - manufacturers will see a giant market asking for a hardware on which you can install and run Linux or BSD operating systems, so they will address both markets (Windows, and others) - Apple computers are already an alternative with macOS and Apple allows the installation of another operating system because none exists for Apple Silicon lol, but they don't give the hardware specifications. Asahi Linux project is born and is will probably be mature in 2024 and 100% working on M1 to M3 processors (CPU but also GPU). - Google Chromebooks are also an alternative. The worry is only for the existing hardware manufacturers (Dell, HP, Compaq, maybe Taiwanese Acer, Asus, Msi, etc.). Also there is a competition USA/China with restrictive access to high end technology. So China is creating their own hardware on which Chinese Linux distribution are installed. Maybe Lenovo (chinese) will switch to Linux some day. In Europe we may buy computers from small manufacturers or chinese one and be able to have Linux on it. To conclude : Microsoft will lose many users if they collaborate with manufacturers to force the installation of Windows and users to subscribe a monthly or year subscription fee, and make Linux impossible to install onto computers for daily/desktop use. There are already manufacturers shipping computers with Linux and high-end hardware : Tuxedo, Slimbook, Star-Labs, and many others. Some might have a free UEFI BIOS, so it will allow to install anything (or maybe not Windows because Windows would focus on a list of specific UEFI BIOS to install itself on the computer).
sometimes you have to let go and put down the pool noodle and sit on chairdesk and relax - my view on linux and slacking - we all need some slack. right now the ai hype is deafening - it is going to be 5 years until ai filters down to smb/sme market segment - it will be aided and abetted by cxl and better i/o like pci-e v6 - the near future is darker than zork or farmville or a virtual marijuana farm but the medium term is bright(er). this was generally a good rant against big tech but i would suggest pivoting to action and addressing concerns - do some more how tos and double down on content creation with interesting projects and try to lean towards smb/sme mkt. secure boot and uefi has a lot of problems - see logofail exploit - hackers and security companies try to get answers from ms since they cosign the code - they get nothing in return but the sound of crickets. just do what yo can and remember - don't break debian.
This is why I only run old hardware, with a huge overclocks and way over the top watercooling, my i5 6600k still holds its own for everything I want to do, when win 10 support goes, I'll pull out a USB with Linux on it, wipe the machine and wash my hands of Microsoft fully, I just hope game devs start noticing what's going to happen and start extending native Linux support (looking at you facepunch) cause in most cases, the only thing stopping many from making the full switch is anticheat compatibility issues.
even beyond secure boot. I had an asus pre-built PC that disabled fan control outside of windows. I had to find some bizarre DKM file on the AUR that enabled fan control on asus laptops and pray that it worked for me too.
That sounds more like linux just not having the drivers required for that to work. I cant change my fan speed either on my desktop. I need to confugure that in BIOS.
@@yorimirus thats the weird part even if i set the fan speed to manual or even full speed all the time in bios as soon as it would boot into anything but windows the fans would run only at their minimum speed
@@Sqaaakoi but should I need a driver to just manually set the fan speed in Bios? im not talking about being able to change the fan speed from inside the OS. any time it would hand off from the bios to grub the fans would only spin at their minimum speed no matter what they were set to in bios
There's a worrying trend that the industry is treating open platforms as increasing threat. If you use an open platform: - for gaming companies you are a cheater or pirate - for media companies you are a pirate - for web service providers you are a hacker (see how banks refuse to cater to rooted smartphone users for example) - increasingly you, your kind and your money are not welcome The future looks bleak for end users which are pushed walled gardens and the keys are thrown away. So far the only saving grace has been that the greed of the walled garden wardens has prevent the one garden to rule us all from forming up.
I use old computers for old computer things, so I stick with Windows Vista on my 2 Acer Aspires and Windows 7 and 11 on my newer Haswell based desktop.
It's interesting - standing on the fork in the road. You've got an extra $5k in your pocket that you want to burn. You could either spend it on the latest piece of PC tech - be just a consumer (take a left on the crossroad.) or You could take that same money and buy some stock in the company who made that same piece of tech.(take a right on the crossroad.) That would instantly make you an investor - which would entitle you to be in on that company's investor meetings. The minute you're in that meeting, the idea of LOCK IN will be pushed - and you'll love it ex. How do we LOCK IN all those customers to using only our product and supplies? That's how we arrive at what he's talking about here. So, it's on you - standing on the fork in the road - do you make a left? or do you make a right?
can't people riot at the front of these companies with signs? Like they did when you couldn't refund a windows install? Either that or people can start a riot on twitter, @ or # at those companies who make motherboards, not sure they would listen Companies that sell motherboards that don't have secure boot enabled, or can be toggled would either get a lot more customers, or just become the norm
Lol that SFF computer... Mine predates the EFI era but the integrated video chip is such utter garbage that it can't load any linux desktop without a fatal error unless there's a linux specific BIOS flashed to it. Thanks 2010 era Acer. I'm not worried about manufacturers violating linux users with Secure Boot but I also don't want a bunch of linux rats anywhere near my Windows boxes. I have enough history with virtualization technologies and live demos that whatever issue here most likely doesn't matter because I'll be the one to find a way around it. That said, I leave Secure Boot running on all my Windows boxes and try to avoid EFI when setting up linux VMs, which is what they are to me. Secure Boot should not be locked down. There needs to be a toggle option because I do a lot of weird stuff with code that Secure Boot does not like and it interferes with some jobs. However, even if I didn't have those issues, there shouldn't be anything stopping a basic linux install from happening. What are they going to do, lock out the only system volume from running a boot loader? Am I gonna have to manufacture a WinPE with a virtualization toolkit, mount the system disk in that VM and go to town with GRUB2 or whatever we use at that point? The whole thing sounds ridiculous.
I don't understand this video, you are suggesting that if Linux dies that that is it monopoly won, but what about mac os and Chrome os. I don't want Linux to die ether but this seems like a bit of bad faith argument? But I also see your point with the level of motherboard control windows is taking.
Isn't chrome os related to Gentoo Linux? I'm sure Google will figure out how to keep chromeOS going if Linux were to die, they're a mega corp after all. They save tons of money because of Linux, just like they do with Android. That is why Linux is important even if you don't realise it.
@@nls3081In my limited experience of running chromeOS with brunch, the only reliable way to get program working on chromeOS is with Linux container. However, Google has since discontinued project Croustini (linux on chromeOS) and instead we're stuck with the default container configuration (debian), not to mention that it can ONLY run on supported model & software version. Those cheap chromebook e-waste that is sold around $40 can't, and they also won't get OS support for much longer. The only thing that could turn it into a 'useful' device is flashing / booting windows / linux on the machine itself, which I imagine 2gb of ram and 2 core celeron cpu from 2014 will not run Windows 10 well. The only real choice is linux, but that could be just my opinion.
Would never buy a computer that woun't let me disable secure boot. Also linux does work with secure boot O.o or well I was able to boot debian with secure boot no problem, maybe that's not the case on all systems though but it's crucial that I am able to disable it because my work directly depends on that.
2:19 not true, there will always be someone who is willing and able to make a unique OS. Will it have market share? Probably not. But then again neither does Linux.
Making a functional operating system on the level of Windows is a huge undertaking, massive really. The only reason Linux is even able to compete is its long history and FOSS principles. If all source code for Linux and related projects (GNU, the desktop environments, all that) was lost tomorrow, windows and macOS would be the only consumer-ready desktop OSes to exist for many years. Hardware and software support would cripple competition until manufacturers and devs had a reason to support the new OS. Linux marketshare is small, but it is still mostly functional for your common desktop user, and that could not be said of a new OS made from scratch. That marketshare would be non-existent. In that scenario, we could see a repeat of what happened with Linux where big companies developed for it because FOSS is useful to them. But it would not make it to normal desktop users for a long time, and the landscape is different now than it was when Linux was born. There's a chance no alternative OS would develop beyond a hobby project or niche professional tool, if the companies with a stake played their cards right. Existing desktop Linux is our best bet against a Windows monopoly in the consumer-facing desktop space by far. It actually exists and people can use it to do what they need to do with a computer. It has the capabilities people expect of a modern OS, it only needs to improve further and reach parity with Windows in terms of software/hardware support and ease of use. (Unrelated rant: Some Linux users get touchy about ease of use. It doesn't threaten your tiling wm and neovim if someone uses gnome or whatever. Linux is customizable, that includes customizing it to be easier to work with and keeping defaults. Not the end of the world if grandma can comfortably use Linux, that's what we should be aiming for. More users=More development and better 3rd party support.)
Can I have the citation for the Secure-Boot only hardware? I'm gonna take that list and report that to my national monopoly regulator, SecureBoot is Microsoft only hardware locking by design.
LINUX dominates the server world tho, which makes sense. I think its real competition would not be windows, but something else. Some kind of very low level basic platform that just runs server side code? I dont know but thats my guess.
Microsoft has bee scared shitless of Linux since the '90s. They accept Linux's dominance in the server market (they even use Linux on their own cloud servers), but they're scared of losing even 1% of their desktop market share. Look up the "Halloween Papers" sometime.
oh how about gui your desktop, "executive bit", and hiding all task bars, by default, gui, yep when desktop gui is win-dos, then its still dos, not an actual gui
I run pop for my daily, because I finally have reached the point where windows constrains what I do. I already have to vote with my wallet only for Linux machines. To be noted, I think that any non-prebuilt desktop mobo will not have secure boot enabled, as I think it requires post configuration, but hey maybe we'll need to strip the binary of windows someday for the SB keys. I can see HP Dell and all the other shitbox makers doing this but I think we'll be good with ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, and a few others.
I've never seen a motherboard manufacturer have secure boot enabled by default. If more and more of them are then this is shitty, maybe it's just the company I bought my motherboard from which is still shitty but maybe not as bad as the ones that have secure boot enabled by default. The company being AsRock. They don't treat there customer well like AT all but at least they don't force secure boot down your throat. Vote with you wallet, every time you buy something you are saying "Hey! This is good keep doing it" so if your building a pc buy a motherbaord without secure boot enabled by default, do your research and don't be sheep.
I don't think you live in the real world... But then that's what I would expect from paranoid Linux advocates. Companies may grow but there is no encroaching future dystopia outside of Hollywood. The larger a company gets the more responsibility is expected from it. You only have to look at Amazon, a horrid enterprise, and how people can complain about their Prime subscriptions. Even though the small print clearly shows their claim for not wanting to pay even though they overshot their trial period is invalid, Amazon frequently still issue refunds to angry customers. And that's just one example. Microsoft is exactly the same. There's zero evidence of a subscription model being planned and Microsoft have demands from all over the world to maintain ancient functionality. Or else, essentially. Linux on the other hand reinvents the wheel constantly, often breaking (or at least hampering) backwards compatibility. There is no monopoly threat. There never will be a monopoly threat. That's not how the world works. It just seems possible because companies get larger. Maybe this way of thinking is a symptom of living in America, I don't know. But I do know that I do not feel this way because I can see the exact opposite. Your other argument is also invalid because Linux distros support Secure Boot. There is no reason to turn it off. Anyway, it is a security feature so to support this argument is to support users being vulnerable to criminal threats. Use Linux if you want to. You are free to. Just don't criticise others for not doing so as you sit of your perceived exalted pillar looking down in -arrogance- ignorance.
"The larger a company gets the more responsibility is expected from it." Haha... That's cute. "There's zero evidence of a subscription model being planned" You mean none that YOU'RE aware of. You should do a little research on that. You might be surprised.
Microsoft earnings model is more about stealing your personal data, thats where your account comes in. Linux is nice for servers but not for gaming as the performance isn't there. I do use Batocera which is a linux distro but for everything from the last 10 years its pretty horrible and runs much better on windows. Linux wine emulation hurts performance. Besides this you can just hack windows and not pay for it..
I found that games on Linux perform better emulated than native windows games. This was tested on my i5 4570 office pc using the igpu. Now a native game like minecraft actually runs about 4x better on Linux compared to windows. I went from a stuttery mess (10fps) to a completely usable 90 fps.
I found that games on Linux perform better emulated than native windows games. This was tested on my i5 4570 office pc using the igpu. Now a native game like minecraft actually runs about 4x better on Linux compared to windows. I went from a stuttery mess (10fps) to a completely usable 90 fps.
I found that games on Linux perform better emulated than native windows games. This was tested on my i5 4570 office pc using the igpu. Now a native game like minecraft actually runs about 4x better on Linux compared to windows. I went from a stuttery mess (10fps) to a completely usable 90 fps.
I found that games on Linux perform better emulated than native windows games. This was tested on my i5 4570 office pc using the igpu. Now a native game like minecraft actually runs about 4x better on Linux compared to windows. I went from a stuttery mess (10fps) to a completely usable 90 fps.
ugh, Linux sucks donkey balls for quarters. I've been using it for a month now, and I have no idea why anyone ACTUALLY wants to use it, except for nerd bragging rights. I had to run a sudo command to get exfat4 support on the BAKED IN USB ETCHER. Why wasn't that basic feature included? Linux is buggy, and a half baked OS. I don't care that Microsoft spies on me, I'm not doing anything wrong, and besides, they just want to make money like every other corporation out there. The source code for windows XP is out in the wild now. Somebody should fork that, and modernize it.
@@JeffWaynee He's just a whiner. Linux is king. His distribution and configuration just suck. He said it himself, he doesn't even understand privacy. Probably doesn't know Linux is a kernel not the whole package, and that its usability it directly correlated with user skill. Let em' cook
1:50 business 101, so what? if you're that worried, get an OEM key, for like 17-18 bucks on some grey marketplace. BAM "problem" solved. Linux is like the WORST aspects of a command line OS like DOS, and a GUI OS.
Don't forgot that Mac exists, not that I would ever buy one. JJJjr recommended your channel to me, thanks for spreading awareness about this issue; for my next build I will be looking for a motherboard I've verified can disable secure boot... Maybe Linux distro maintainers can find a way to install with secureboot enabled?
That is awesome, thank you! I appreciate you giving the content a chance. And I will be doing the same thing, secure boot as an option is perfectly fine, but not even having the option to disable is concerning. I imagine some distros will eventually work with secure boot, but it is still a concerning trend. Hard to tell how things will play out. We'll have to see!
I think the real threat facing Linux is that ever since the beginning of Windows 11 , people don't necessarily have to activate Windows anymore for it to run . that definitely competes with Linux .
It's also an attack on being able to reuse older devices. It can effectively make it like an android phone in the sense that if samsung says you're not getting the next version of Android, then there's nothing you can do because the bootloader is locked.
Even if you stick with Windows, it's a tool to prevent you from staying up to date.
FYI, some Android phone bootloaders could indeed be unlocked so that other firmware and custom ROMs could be installed though, especially the Google Pixel and OnePlus phones.
@@lawrence_teoKeyword: some
i will never buy a phone that isn't known to at the very least be fully compatible with lineageos. samsungs are not always useless, just most of the ones that they sell in the USA. one example that I have is Samsung Galaxy A70 SM-A705FN . It is running LineageOS 20 Android 13 perfectly with full root. It took a ridiculously complicated process that requires logging in and out of a google account and setting the system clock back and forward, and every time i reboot the phone the remaining samsung part of the firmware does create a giant popup that says "This phone is not running samsung's official software your experience may be compromised" before allowing lineageos to boot, but it is really truly snapdragon samsung with lineageos and root
@@user-28qhfk65 I would say that most Android phones won't let you tamper with the bootloader.
@@tacokoneko LineageOS is classic and a must have on my phone.
Thanks for the shout-out!
Heck yeah man
For the record, while you need Secure Boot disabled to first install Linux, you can then add the particular Linux installation to the list of permitted OSes & re-enable secure boot. You're not sacrificing the benefits secure boot offers.
Thank you for pointing this out to those of us that aren't very familiar with Linux.
correct me if im wrong but i dont think linux mint requires secure boot to be disabled, i dont have it disabled or edited and im using it anyway
It depends on whether the distro in question is using a Microsoft-signed shim out of the box. Not all do. Regardless, once you get your distro installed and install any additional drivers you might need, signing those drivers yourself for Secure Boot is really annoying and compromises the security of Secure Boot. No one is distributing signed drivers in their repositories (signed kernels yes, but not individual kernel modules), which is essential for sensible Secure Boot support.
It should also be mentioned that motherboard manufactures can just take away booting from a USB drive. Strictly enforcing Secure Boot is not even the final form of this abuse. It’s just an easy one to get away with, since it looks like a security thing, but that’s only appearance. Secure Boot does not prevent infection; it just makes it harder for malware to hide itself as a part of the operating system. That’s really only useful if you have an antivirus, which makes sense on Windows but is seldom needed on Linux for a handful of reasons.
Isn't that only limited to Ubuntu, Fedora, and others that are signed by Microsoft?
And how do I add an installation to the list? Last time I checked, I would need some software to sign the binaries myself and use it with secure boot fine. That's doable but requires to be done each time I would want to try something new.
@@Soporonix You can still enable it by following manuals. Also Mint currently tests Secure Boot, so in future it would become officially supported.
I'm not terribly worried. Linux is growing. Steam on Linux has good performance. Coreboot may gain traction. There are mfrs geared towards Linux. Certain industries rely on it. If Microsoft doesn't do something with their trash os soon, I doubt logic board mfrs would wholesale buy in to their attempt.
4:58 "How do I disable Secure Boot when it's greyed out" Yep, that's exactly what I searched for hours with no clue before figuring out, I needed to enable "Setup Mode" that would remove my Product Key and disable Secure Boot automatically.
That made me locked to Ubuntu and Fedora for a while but eventually fully gave up on Windows as it's barely usable these days with the heavily packed surveillance junkware running in the background.
I hate how most Laptop manufacturers are locking up their users not just by hardware repair but by software too.
I smell a law suite!
Does somebody remember wubi
Exe
If corporations moved forward and even worked with Microsoft into making software/hardware level restrictions through ideas we wouldn't even be able to imagine currently, we could see similar domino effects to the likes of what Right-to-Repair faces today. There is a lot of money in siphoning out someone's ability to have the same freedoms that we have when it comes to owning a computer. Because the mainstream users who buy pre-built machines typically use Windows as a bootloader to open chrome and not much else. This is what makes these companies (in my eyes) ask the question, "Who is gonna stop us?" when they could make it so that your first three months or year of owning a computer is free, until it isn't. Linux being threatened sucks even more due to its lower user base compared to other OS's. If it slowly became harder to install onto newer systems, it could get effectively curbed without a fair amount of people noticing before it is too late. I hope something can be done to prevent this in the near future.
Thanks for the video! One simple example i would say is android phones that now come with no ability to unlock the bootloader that goes quite against the open nature of early android. I'm pretty sure that if the internet wasn't running on Linux, Windows would already be a total monopoly. Thank you again for raising awareness and reminding me that i should find time sooner rather than later to move as much of my computer usage i can to Linux which i keep putting off!
My Dad and I have the same phone - the Sony XZ1. My Dad's phone has a locked bootloader so in can only run android 9. However, my XZ1 is running android 12.1 (an unofficial lineage ROM) since the bootloader could be unlocked. There will be a time when my Dad's phone is no longer supported (and apps don't work) but I can keep updating my phone using community support.
It's hard to believe that some devices will become obsolete since the manufacturers stop people updating the software themselves. Aren't we meant to be more green nowadays?
a) There's a reason you keep putting it off.
b) "Android is Linux" I am constantly told on these sorts of videos and so often used as a way to boost the userbase figures to manipulate an argument.
@@QTMagicwe're only "green" when it benefits the bottom line of corporations. they'll sell you a more energy efficient appliance that's made of lighter materials (so that it uses less fuel being shipped halfway around the world, so efficient) than the locally-made model that your parents or grandparents had that would last forever with a little upkeep, as opposed to the new one that'll last around half a decade and can't easily be repaired so you have to buy a dozen of them over the course of your life. progress!
i didnt know that motherboards greyed out secure boot... first time hearing it and it instantly sounds scary knowing that i cannot choose what OS i want...
I got mine greyed out for a year and was only able to install fedora and ubuntu (other secure boot supported distro didn't work). I mailed the support team everyday to enable or just give me the old bios firmware and got no response until I started bugging them on social media, they updated the bios and enabled to option to turn on/off secure boot but still locked uefi/legacy switcher.
Last Windows I used, was 7. After that, I use XP and 7 for programs that don't work on Linux, and Lubuntu, Mint and Zorin for everything else. And all my computers are at least 14 years old.
With 250M+ computers not able to run win11...
We need better options or we will be berried in E-waste.
I was impressed by "Mint OS" recently as an option.
yes! i installed linux mint on my laptop recently and ive been loving it so far, it's very stable and has features and applications by default that i'll actually use
Sorry, TH-cam had a bug and I spammed the comments with the same messages in the comment prompt (I was on mobile), thinking "Why is the button not working?".
What? Someone deleted my first comment? I received a "comment wasn't posted" error when I tried to edit that comment.
@@emanuelg6356 No worries.
Wubi.exe
I'm going from "yeah you're not wrong..." to "oh wow. Do I need to be worried about this?" as the video goes on
Thank you for making this video, I've been paranoid about this for a very long time now and It always felt like nobody cared enough.
Is there a list of these manufacturers shipping motherboards with Secure Boot unable to be disabled? If so, can you post that list or put it in a pinned post or into the video description? I'm surprised you didn't call them out by name in the video. I would have.
I second that.
I bought 2 Asus boards and they had SecureBoot&TPM disabled. it also had the "OS-Type" option in bios set to "OtherOS" instead of "WindowsX64". I also liked that they had made it possible to remove the Microsoft Keys from SB&TPM and I was able to load my own Keys instead which made it possible for me to have my ssd encrypted with TPM.
Here are the board models:
Asus Prime A320M-C R2.0
Asus Prime A620M-E
I think this is the case with all Asus board not just these cuz as far as I know Asus uses the exact same bios for all of their products.
There are two kinds of computer users in the world... drivers and passengers. Drivers like to be in control of their system, and passengers are just along for the ride. Windows and MacOS users are passengers.
The statement you made serves as a generalization. 90% of the time it correct. But then there are the weirdos like me that use macOS and Linux (Fedora in my case) on the same system on bare metal. Plus, many Linux users can also be passengers. I’m sure many gamers that bought the steam deck don’t even know anything about daemons, bash, crontab, kernel upgrades, or anything else that “drivers” typically understand. I absolutely love to be in control of my system, but I prefer the macOS workflow for video editing as well as its very stable implementation of high fidelity audio. But I still keep a Linux partition for programming, testing out the latest FOSS software, and enhanced window management (macOS has the worst window manager in my opinion). I don’t mind using Apple’s weird bootloader if it means I get to utilize proprietary stuff on macOS and then all the fun linux GUI and CLI stuff on Fedora. But for most people who use macOS, yeah they are passengers. I personally would say “Most macOS and Windows users are passengers”. And this statement is true as most people that have computers aren’t hardware or software engineers. There are plenty of “drivers” with full control of their system (by using OSes that offer full kernel access) that may have a boot partition for Windows or macOS to runs specific applications that run better on those specific platforms. And if you don’t agree with me, that’s okay. Freedom to have opinions regarding tech is part of the philosophy behind systems like Linux.
@@grantschilb8019 People on a steamdeck are not using Linux by choice. They're using it because that's what it came with, and it's also a very dumbed down version of Linux.
@@JeffWaynee Very well thought out reply. I respect your opinion. I could write another paragraph on why I disagree, but I don't think that would be a valuable use of my time. A good question to ask though is what makes a Linux system dumbed down. Immutable filesystem? Simple game console UI? Limited root access? I'll leave that to you to answer for yourself. Of course, if you do want another long paragraph on why I disagree, then I can definitely reply when I have more time on my hands. Happy computing and may 2024 be the year of Linux desktop!!!
Macroscum can keeping kissing my tiny shiny hiney. I ditched Winblows ages ago. I only buy from Linux friendly companies and I strongly suggest everyone boycotts Macroscum.
Thanks for pointing out the issue! Didn't even knew, that newer M.B. -s do lock the secure boot feature. I will keep it in mind at my next buy.
A very much needed video. Thanks for spreading the awareness about Linux!
This video makes a great point, and one that ive been trying to get through to people since the Win8 days.
This is also why im excited to aee more ARM and RISC-V systems come to market, many of those soecifically being built with Linux in mind from the start.
Windows-PC manufacturers who take away the right to disable secureboot, even temporarily will be responsible for a LOT of E-Waste in coming years.
newsflash, secure boot is a UEFI feature, it has nothing to do with windows and most arm cpu's fully support it. so don't get surprised when arm-risc-v cpus start to demand it to boot. the whole ms/windows is responsible for secure boot is idiotic, if you want to blame someone, blame intel/itanium for efi development. all pc motherboards from the last decade have uefi/sb on by default, but can be disabled, the problem is with laptops. ppl are barking at the wrong tree. and windows can be installed on uefi and non-uefi systems, the issue with win11 is tpm, but that can also be bypassed.
@@giornikitop5373"that can also be bypassed" this was addressed in the video; it can be bypassed _now._ Microsoft likely has a roadmap for making it genuinely difficult or impossible to do. I don't think they will succeed, but it's not for any lack of trying on their part.
@@xXx_Regulus_xXxno, that could always been bypassed.
So far I've not needed a MS account to use or install Windows 11. For secure boot, I've been able to install and enroll keys without issue on HP machines. Secure boot does have its own vulnerabilities, enabled or not.
I saw your vid on disabling the account requirement during install. It will be a handy resource if I ever cave on my demands for Microsoft to free Clippy and I have to use win 11 🙂. My main concerns are really just about workarounds becoming less accessible, and things generally moving in a troubling direction. We'll have to see how stuff plays out though, these are the kinds of things I wouldn't mind being wrong about 😄.
@@LowcastleTech I understand. I still got the OOBE workaround to work on 23H2. I actually think today it just let me set up a local account without the network connected like it used to.
Yes, Refusal to go along with this is the best way to go. Also, single bord computers are becoming more and more powerful all the time and because they tend to be geared toward the hackers and makers of the world, they are likely to stay free from this problem. There would be no point in lockdown a device that was made to be hackable or maker-friendly.
Secure boot is old news, it is a problem yes, but I thought this video was going to talk about The Cyber resiliency Act, I'm only just learning about it but it sounds like the biggest threat to Linux we have ever seen.
How would the Cyber Resilience Act be a threat to Linux?
@@reezlaw I'm no expert but I have stumbled across several videos and written articles that talk about how it might be impossible for FOSS projects and even Linux to comply with. It's a complicated topic that I don't really know enough about yet.
@@Dargaard well I sure as hell hope you're wrong. Anyway it's still in the "proposed" phase and it's the EU, they have enacted several pro-consumer policies in recent years, I think they'll come around and change it so it doesn't hurt us
I'm always surprised that privacy isn't on more peoples list of concerns regarding Microsoft. Sure I hate them for being a giant tech monopoly but what really disgusts me is that they extract and sell my data. I switched from Windows to Mint this year and I will never go back to Mr. Softy. PS I don't recall having any issue with secure boot.
I'm writing this comment on Linux Mint =)
Let's not forget that linux has UK DVORAK layout as a keyboard option while Windows only has US DVORAK. My ' key keeps changing position whenever I boot into windows!
Let's make a huge law suite against MS and the hardware manufacturers!
Great video man! this was very insightful! I've always enjoyed your videos and this is was a good change up.
Luckily some of the biggest system makers are very pro Linux. ie. Lenovo, Dell and HP
makes sense why, it saves them money.
Oh Hell YEA! Been a Linux n00b since '96/'97... Still my Daily Driver, I Still don't know how to use it lol.
I haven't been able to find your Channel for a while, yt went haywire and skewed everything up!
Well Done Sir!
4:29 Linux Mint just released version 21.3 and it supports secure boot
I installed Linux mint on my dell optiplex 3010 with secure boot enabled. Does this only effect newer hardware?
Kubuntu 22.04 has panned out pretty decently so far.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't GRUB have support for Secure boot?
yep! atleast on my laptop it does
I got a laptop recently and I ended up having to disable secure boot to install 3rd party drivers on Linux. I had a tough time disabling secure boot through the UEFI. I think computers should give the customer the choice on first boot to enable it or not, not having it on by default.
hey fellow Linux user, it may be worth putting out a revised version. everything you mentioned is correct, but I think the most common rebuttal from avarage users will be "if all Windows hardware is locked down with no workaround, couldn't I just switch to Apple?" or any of the handful of other proprietary systems like Chromebooks or tablets or what have you.
If your computer was a house, Linux users often do the equivalent of ripping out the plumbing and HVAC to replace them with completely custom versions tailored to their needs. Average people pace around in one corner of one room, not even knowing that the door to the room is locked and there are cameras and microphones trained on them.
What manufacturers do not sell any motherboards with secure boot always on?
Am happy linux mint user
same here
I agree with everything that you said in this video. I have one caveat though, in that, many modern Linux distros are able to play nice with secure boot.
For now...
There are work arounds which allow you to install win11 without having a MS account. Someone else pointed this out in the comments, but you can install linux and have it added to the safe OS's then enable secure boot. Also i don't know where you are located, but at least here in EU the governments won't allow monopoly, so that scare story with windows is a bit exadurated i think. However it may be true once you go outside EU. Personally i haven't used windows on my personal computer for a little time now and i have no plans of using it again unless it's in a VM.
awesome vid!!
Perhaps the greatest asset here is to actually use Linux. And, with stuff like the Steam Deck, many already are. If Linux is market viable, the whole 'secure boot' lockout won't be as prevalent.
Linux, sadly, is geek hobby-ist territory still - though, honestly, I've had Linux boxes really throwing down against native Windows gaming. It certainly DESTROYS Mac OS on the same hardware (If you have a 5,1 Mac Pro from the bygone eras, it is really worth your time). My main PCs right now are both Windows boxes - only because discount keys are quite available and I'm testing Intel Arc stuff and letting my family have a reasonable experience with modern gaming, LOL.
That said, I'm planning to return once I have thoroughly annihilated Baldur's Gate 3 to running Linux (probably PopOS, as honestly it is the best experience I've had to date. Garuda/Arch distros are way more customizable and tweakable - but shit, POP just works).
Thanks for talking about Linux, especially for those of us who hate planned obsolescence!
funny how arch based distros (except Garuda), have been the most stable on my current laptop and my main desktop PC XD
@@naterest5033 When I initially set them up, they are rock solid - but I've had two 'builds' go funky after updates, though - be aware - I am tweaking for CRTs sometimes, and both have involved Mac hardware.
PopOS, however, has been insanely durable for me - no matter how I tweak, it doesn't seem to break. I prefer Arch in a lot of ways, but I customized Pop to be nearly the same.
@@grimmpickins2559 PopOS is great, just that for me personally ubuntu or debian based systems are "way too stable" for my liking. "Way too stable", as in I don't have the latest drivers and apps for certain situations etc. So arch is just better for me, I always get the latest kernel with the latest fixes and the latest Nvidia drivers, since I have a GTX 980. I know that PopOS has an Nvidia ISO, still the "way too stable" stands in the way for me :)
Good video.
wow, that is an important topic. but theres one even more important. lenovo soldering RAM onto thinkpads, and not the thin ones only either. T and L series, leaving only P series with two SODIMM slots.
CAMM2 will be our savior against soldered ram hopefully (can't believe I am praising anything that came from Dell, but they did good with this)
If I can't disable secure boot, it's going to make dual booting a total pain the ass.... ugh
it's Mint 21 and there's Mint debian edition(lmde) just in case ubuntu becomes unstable since debian was used to make ubuntu and this was made to make mint .
I also remember hearing about some hardware forcing to use system D in the future
What about dedicated Linux hardware developers like System76 and Tuxedo?
Have you looked at their prices? They're kinda spendy.
Only tinker with old computers and peripherals that are still yours. New equipment with soldered ram and irreparable components belong to the company, not to you. If I need to buy a new machine, it'll be a Framework.
Yup!
As much as I like Framework's spirit, they're just a little too expensive for my budget. As such, there's no way I could afford the laptop immediately, but I agree with you. Too many company is taking soldered ram aproach, not to mention Apple having absolutely no choice for upgradable ram and ssd on their mobile lineup. Lenovo isn't better as well.
@@user-28qhfk65 Oh I know, but at least with Framework the RAM is not only not soldered on, you can buy the parts straight from them. People even buy the mainboards to make their own mini PCs. It's the idea the client owns the product and can repair it which is a throwback to last century. I will keep using older secondhand equipment as long as people drop it off at my place and I manage to keep it running. Hence Linux Mint seems more and more enticing.
Doesnt fedora support secure boot?
I’m 99% secure boot doesn’t allow you to boot from usb, making it a lot harder to install Linux, I may be wrong though
Where is secure boot that can't be disabled? Genuinely asking, as I work in a tech segment and this seems pretty Important.
Well, there will always exist alternatives :
- Linux kernel/distributions will be Secure Boot capable.
- possibility to crack Windows
- possibility to flash the UEFI BIOS to deactivate Secure Boot
- manufacturers will see a giant market asking for a hardware on which you can install and run Linux or BSD operating systems, so they will address both markets (Windows, and others)
- Apple computers are already an alternative with macOS and Apple allows the installation of another operating system because none exists for Apple Silicon lol, but they don't give the hardware specifications. Asahi Linux project is born and is will probably be mature in 2024 and 100% working on M1 to M3 processors (CPU but also GPU).
- Google Chromebooks are also an alternative.
The worry is only for the existing hardware manufacturers (Dell, HP, Compaq, maybe Taiwanese Acer, Asus, Msi, etc.).
Also there is a competition USA/China with restrictive access to high end technology. So China is creating their own hardware on which Chinese Linux distribution are installed. Maybe Lenovo (chinese) will switch to Linux some day.
In Europe we may buy computers from small manufacturers or chinese one and be able to have Linux on it.
To conclude : Microsoft will lose many users if they collaborate with manufacturers to force the installation of Windows and users to subscribe a monthly or year subscription fee, and make Linux impossible to install onto computers for daily/desktop use.
There are already manufacturers shipping computers with Linux and high-end hardware : Tuxedo, Slimbook, Star-Labs, and many others. Some might have a free UEFI BIOS, so it will allow to install anything (or maybe not Windows because Windows would focus on a list of specific UEFI BIOS to install itself on the computer).
sometimes you have to let go and put down the pool noodle and sit on chairdesk and relax - my view on linux and slacking - we all need some slack. right now the ai hype is deafening - it is going to be 5 years until ai filters down to smb/sme market segment - it will be aided and abetted by cxl and better i/o like pci-e v6 - the near future is darker than zork or farmville or a virtual marijuana farm but the medium term is bright(er). this was generally a good rant against big tech but i would suggest pivoting to action and addressing concerns - do some more how tos and double down on content creation with interesting projects and try to lean towards smb/sme mkt. secure boot and uefi has a lot of problems - see logofail exploit - hackers and security companies try to get answers from ms since they cosign the code - they get nothing in return but the sound of crickets. just do what yo can and remember - don't break debian.
Agreed
This is why I only run old hardware, with a huge overclocks and way over the top watercooling, my i5 6600k still holds its own for everything I want to do, when win 10 support goes, I'll pull out a USB with Linux on it, wipe the machine and wash my hands of Microsoft fully, I just hope game devs start noticing what's going to happen and start extending native Linux support (looking at you facepunch) cause in most cases, the only thing stopping many from making the full switch is anticheat compatibility issues.
I use Hannah Montana Linux to meet all of my needs on the interwebs like all of the other cool kids.
even beyond secure boot. I had an asus pre-built PC that disabled fan control outside of windows. I had to find some bizarre DKM file on the AUR that enabled fan control on asus laptops and pray that it worked for me too.
That sounds more like linux just not having the drivers required for that to work.
I cant change my fan speed either on my desktop. I need to confugure that in BIOS.
that's a lack of drivers...
@@yorimirus thats the weird part even if i set the fan speed to manual or even full speed all the time in bios as soon as it would boot into anything but windows the fans would run only at their minimum speed
@@Sqaaakoi but should I need a driver to just manually set the fan speed in Bios? im not talking about being able to change the fan speed from inside the OS. any time it would hand off from the bios to grub the fans would only spin at their minimum speed no matter what they were set to in bios
@@adambester3673 Oh I see. Yeah that's odd. Once I set my fans in the BIOS then they seem to follow that curve.
There's a worrying trend that the industry is treating open platforms as increasing threat.
If you use an open platform:
- for gaming companies you are a cheater or pirate
- for media companies you are a pirate
- for web service providers you are a hacker (see how banks refuse to cater to rooted smartphone users for example)
- increasingly you, your kind and your money are not welcome
The future looks bleak for end users which are pushed walled gardens and the keys are thrown away. So far the only saving grace has been that the greed of the walled garden wardens has prevent the one garden to rule us all from forming up.
Many people dont know how much windows costs. They either already have it, dont activate it, or pirate it
I use old computers for old computer things, so I stick with Windows Vista on my 2 Acer Aspires and Windows 7 and 11 on my newer Haswell based desktop.
It's interesting - standing on the fork in the road. You've got an extra $5k in your pocket that you want to burn.
You could either spend it on the latest piece of PC tech - be just a consumer (take a left on the crossroad.)
or
You could take that same money and buy some stock in the company who made that same piece of tech.(take a right on the crossroad.)
That would instantly make you an investor - which would entitle you to be in on that company's investor meetings.
The minute you're in that meeting, the idea of LOCK IN will be pushed - and you'll love it
ex. How do we LOCK IN all those customers to using only our product and supplies?
That's how we arrive at what he's talking about here.
So, it's on you - standing on the fork in the road - do you make a left? or do you make a right?
I agree that not having an option to disable secure boot is bad. -Sent from my Linux only gaming PC running secure boot.
holy. Amazing start of a new year in the modern world. Geez. Hope Linux is saved in the future
Wait people sell computers that you can't disable secure boot on, or add certificates to. I didn't even know that was a thing.
Linux always requires more work to get 100 percent way I want it but in end it free and worth it
Yeah I had to disable secureboot to install zorin os.
can't people riot at the front of these companies with signs? Like they did when you couldn't refund a windows install?
Either that or people can start a riot on twitter, @ or # at those companies who make motherboards, not sure they would listen
Companies that sell motherboards that don't have secure boot enabled, or can be toggled would either get a lot more customers, or just become the norm
"Riot"? Do you mean: "protest"? There's a difference.
@@Luthiart what's the difference?
Lol that SFF computer...
Mine predates the EFI era but the integrated video chip is such utter garbage that it can't load any linux desktop without a fatal error unless there's a linux specific BIOS flashed to it. Thanks 2010 era Acer. I'm not worried about manufacturers violating linux users with Secure Boot but I also don't want a bunch of linux rats anywhere near my Windows boxes. I have enough history with virtualization technologies and live demos that whatever issue here most likely doesn't matter because I'll be the one to find a way around it. That said, I leave Secure Boot running on all my Windows boxes and try to avoid EFI when setting up linux VMs, which is what they are to me.
Secure Boot should not be locked down. There needs to be a toggle option because I do a lot of weird stuff with code that Secure Boot does not like and it interferes with some jobs. However, even if I didn't have those issues, there shouldn't be anything stopping a basic linux install from happening. What are they going to do, lock out the only system volume from running a boot loader? Am I gonna have to manufacture a WinPE with a virtualization toolkit, mount the system disk in that VM and go to town with GRUB2 or whatever we use at that point? The whole thing sounds ridiculous.
Lol great thumbnail
😄
well done.
humanity is doomed
We must fight!
I feel for a situation of this sort, EU will come to save the day, hopefully.
I AGREEEEE
I don't understand this video, you are suggesting that if Linux dies that that is it monopoly won, but what about mac os and Chrome os. I don't want Linux to die ether but this seems like a bit of bad faith argument?
But I also see your point with the level of motherboard control windows is taking.
Chrome OS is a bad joke, nothing upon Microsoft.
I needs MY PROGRAMS, not cloud or what they stated i am able to use with that shitty OS.
Isn't chrome os related to Gentoo Linux? I'm sure Google will figure out how to keep chromeOS going if Linux were to die, they're a mega corp after all. They save tons of money because of Linux, just like they do with Android. That is why Linux is important even if you don't realise it.
@@nls3081In my limited experience of running chromeOS with brunch, the only reliable way to get program working on chromeOS is with Linux container.
However, Google has since discontinued project Croustini (linux on chromeOS) and instead we're stuck with the default container configuration (debian), not to mention that it can ONLY run on supported model & software version. Those cheap chromebook e-waste that is sold around $40 can't, and they also won't get OS support for much longer.
The only thing that could turn it into a 'useful' device is flashing / booting windows / linux on the machine itself, which I imagine 2gb of ram and 2 core celeron cpu from 2014 will not run Windows 10 well. The only real choice is linux, but that could be just my opinion.
👍
Would never buy a computer that woun't let me disable secure boot. Also linux does work with secure boot O.o or well I was able to boot debian with secure boot no problem, maybe that's not the case on all systems though but it's crucial that I am able to disable it because my work directly depends on that.
2:19 not true, there will always be someone who is willing and able to make a unique OS. Will it have market share? Probably not. But then again neither does Linux.
Making a functional operating system on the level of Windows is a huge undertaking, massive really. The only reason Linux is even able to compete is its long history and FOSS principles. If all source code for Linux and related projects (GNU, the desktop environments, all that) was lost tomorrow, windows and macOS would be the only consumer-ready desktop OSes to exist for many years. Hardware and software support would cripple competition until manufacturers and devs had a reason to support the new OS. Linux marketshare is small, but it is still mostly functional for your common desktop user, and that could not be said of a new OS made from scratch. That marketshare would be non-existent.
In that scenario, we could see a repeat of what happened with Linux where big companies developed for it because FOSS is useful to them. But it would not make it to normal desktop users for a long time, and the landscape is different now than it was when Linux was born. There's a chance no alternative OS would develop beyond a hobby project or niche professional tool, if the companies with a stake played their cards right. Existing desktop Linux is our best bet against a Windows monopoly in the consumer-facing desktop space by far. It actually exists and people can use it to do what they need to do with a computer. It has the capabilities people expect of a modern OS, it only needs to improve further and reach parity with Windows in terms of software/hardware support and ease of use.
(Unrelated rant: Some Linux users get touchy about ease of use. It doesn't threaten your tiling wm and neovim if someone uses gnome or whatever. Linux is customizable, that includes customizing it to be easier to work with and keeping defaults. Not the end of the world if grandma can comfortably use Linux, that's what we should be aiming for. More users=More development and better 3rd party support.)
Windows is a greedy company and wants full control it should always be about choice (CHAIRDESK!)
🪑🪑🪑
Ubuntu until you learn the requirements
Microsoft already had a strangle hold tho, most if not all applications are build for windows, that's why most people don't switch to linux
We'll lose Linux just like everything else. This is hell and everything only gets worse.
AB for president again. I agreed 100%; he is absolutely and unquestionably right about paying to use your PC. Linux is the way to go.
Can I have the citation for the Secure-Boot only hardware? I'm gonna take that list and report that to my national monopoly regulator, SecureBoot is Microsoft only hardware locking by design.
Your monopoly regulator won't care if they are okay with the restrictions on iPhones or game consoles.
I use arch btw
LINUX dominates the server world tho, which makes sense. I think its real competition would not be windows, but something else. Some kind of very low level basic platform that just runs server side code? I dont know but thats my guess.
Microsoft has bee scared shitless of Linux since the '90s. They accept Linux's dominance in the server market (they even use Linux on their own cloud servers), but they're scared of losing even 1% of their desktop market share. Look up the "Halloween Papers" sometime.
oh how about gui your desktop, "executive bit", and hiding all task bars, by default, gui, yep when desktop gui is win-dos, then its still dos, not an actual gui
I run pop for my daily, because I finally have reached the point where windows constrains what I do.
I already have to vote with my wallet only for Linux machines.
To be noted, I think that any non-prebuilt desktop mobo will not have secure boot enabled, as I think it requires post configuration, but hey maybe we'll need to strip the binary of windows someday for the SB keys.
I can see HP Dell and all the other shitbox makers doing this but I think we'll be good with ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, and a few others.
If Linux ceased to exist, no problem, we'd move efforts towards BSD which is a much better designed OS
I've never seen a motherboard manufacturer have secure boot enabled by default. If more and more of them are then this is shitty, maybe it's just the company I bought my motherboard from which is still shitty but maybe not as bad as the ones that have secure boot enabled by default. The company being AsRock. They don't treat there customer well like AT all but at least they don't force secure boot down your throat. Vote with you wallet, every time you buy something you are saying "Hey! This is good keep doing it" so if your building a pc buy a motherbaord without secure boot enabled by default, do your research and don't be sheep.
ARM based PCs are going to be locked to windows
Monopoly is never good, hence using Firefox and not any Chromium-based browser.
Great talk, but I took the blue-pill...cuz' I like steak.
Linux runs the majority of Web servers in the Internet.
Love me linux mint laptops.
I don't think you live in the real world... But then that's what I would expect from paranoid Linux advocates.
Companies may grow but there is no encroaching future dystopia outside of Hollywood. The larger a company gets the more responsibility is expected from it. You only have to look at Amazon, a horrid enterprise, and how people can complain about their Prime subscriptions. Even though the small print clearly shows their claim for not wanting to pay even though they overshot their trial period is invalid, Amazon frequently still issue refunds to angry customers. And that's just one example. Microsoft is exactly the same. There's zero evidence of a subscription model being planned and Microsoft have demands from all over the world to maintain ancient functionality. Or else, essentially. Linux on the other hand reinvents the wheel constantly, often breaking (or at least hampering) backwards compatibility. There is no monopoly threat. There never will be a monopoly threat. That's not how the world works. It just seems possible because companies get larger. Maybe this way of thinking is a symptom of living in America, I don't know. But I do know that I do not feel this way because I can see the exact opposite.
Your other argument is also invalid because Linux distros support Secure Boot. There is no reason to turn it off. Anyway, it is a security feature so to support this argument is to support users being vulnerable to criminal threats.
Use Linux if you want to. You are free to. Just don't criticise others for not doing so as you sit of your perceived exalted pillar looking down in -arrogance- ignorance.
"The larger a company gets the more responsibility is expected from it."
Haha... That's cute.
"There's zero evidence of a subscription model being planned"
You mean none that YOU'RE aware of. You should do a little research on that. You might be surprised.
Sounds like you label things as paranoia when you don't understand them.
Microsoft earnings model is more about stealing your personal data, thats where your account comes in. Linux is nice for servers but not for gaming as the performance isn't there. I do use Batocera which is a linux distro but for everything from the last 10 years its pretty horrible and runs much better on windows. Linux wine emulation hurts performance. Besides this you can just hack windows and not pay for it..
I found that games on Linux perform better emulated than native windows games. This was tested on my i5 4570 office pc using the igpu. Now a native game like minecraft actually runs about 4x better on Linux compared to windows. I went from a stuttery mess (10fps) to a completely usable 90 fps.
I found that games on Linux perform better emulated than native windows games. This was tested on my i5 4570 office pc using the igpu. Now a native game like minecraft actually runs about 4x better on Linux compared to windows. I went from a stuttery mess (10fps) to a completely usable 90 fps.
I found that games on Linux perform better emulated than native windows games. This was tested on my i5 4570 office pc using the igpu. Now a native game like minecraft actually runs about 4x better on Linux compared to windows. I went from a stuttery mess (10fps) to a completely usable 90 fps.
I found that games on Linux perform better emulated than native windows games. This was tested on my i5 4570 office pc using the igpu. Now a native game like minecraft actually runs about 4x better on Linux compared to windows. I went from a stuttery mess (10fps) to a completely usable 90 fps.
ugh, Linux sucks donkey balls for quarters. I've been using it for a month now, and I have no idea why anyone ACTUALLY wants to use it, except for nerd bragging rights. I had to run a sudo command to get exfat4 support on the BAKED IN USB ETCHER. Why wasn't that basic feature included? Linux is buggy, and a half baked OS. I don't care that Microsoft spies on me, I'm not doing anything wrong, and besides, they just want to make money like every other corporation out there. The source code for windows XP is out in the wild now. Somebody should fork that, and modernize it.
Any OS can only be as capable as the user. Period. If you have limited ability, then so will any OS you use.
@@JeffWaynee He's just a whiner. Linux is king. His distribution and configuration just suck. He said it himself, he doesn't even understand privacy. Probably doesn't know Linux is a kernel not the whole package, and that its usability it directly correlated with user skill. Let em' cook
@@JeffWaynee no it's more about accessibility. Linux is just not. Period. That's undeniable, if it was, it'd be an ACTUAL competitor to MS.
@@mattparker9726 anything that requires know how is less accessible. pointing and clicking is not a skill
@@JeffWaynee you're making my point for me, the only thing Linux has going for it is Nerd bragging. Oh and gatekeeping.
1:50 business 101, so what? if you're that worried, get an OEM key, for like 17-18 bucks on some grey marketplace. BAM "problem" solved. Linux is like the WORST aspects of a command line OS like DOS, and a GUI OS.
The frequency that the Windows GUI decides for me that I'm not allowed to take an action I know for certain it can do argues otherwise.
@@MeatGunz I like that idea! Let’s all go Xtreem!
EU Government, Please help
Gnu Linux is my homie.
Don't forgot that Mac exists, not that I would ever buy one.
JJJjr recommended your channel to me, thanks for spreading awareness about this issue; for my next build I will be looking for a motherboard I've verified can disable secure boot...
Maybe Linux distro maintainers can find a way to install with secureboot enabled?
That is awesome, thank you! I appreciate you giving the content a chance. And I will be doing the same thing, secure boot as an option is perfectly fine, but not even having the option to disable is concerning. I imagine some distros will eventually work with secure boot, but it is still a concerning trend. Hard to tell how things will play out. We'll have to see!
I think the real threat facing Linux is that ever since the beginning of Windows
11 , people don't necessarily have to activate Windows anymore for it to
run . that definitely competes with Linux .
major views on the linux video means you have to make more strident videos fortified with a healthy dose of linux and chairdesk (linux edition)
... sadly Linus will never understand the importance of Linux or Light Stick. ....
"Minus LIght Stick" 😄