The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Linux Workstations
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
- Alternate title: Developers Have A Laptop Problem
Hi folks! A topic I hinted at in my "Plain Text" video after saying, "But even if you're storing large files, storage is cheap if you're smart."
We live in an incredible age, computers have never been so fast, nor storage so cheap, but it doesn't feel like it, right?
It's not you, computing has been getting worse. And the problem is LAPTOPS.
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ERRATA
- 06:13: This statement is too flippant, I should have said "Cheap desktop machines from 3 years ago are much faster compared to nearly every single laptop in use by developers working today." (many thanks to @oracle@phantomthieves.net for pointing this out)
- 00:34 I should have said that the mini pc in the second slide here is just as power efficient as the apple silicon machine it's beating. Yes apple silicone is very power efficient, but it's not magic. I agree ARM processors are great!
- 3:00 You wanna know something cool about CPU heat? It's equivalent to a regular electric heater: 100W of electricity in, 100W of heat out. The action of the CPU is almost incidental ;-)
- 11:50 "envinroment" instead of "environment" - woops!
- 4:44 I should have said "11x as expensive" LANGUAGE IS FUN
- 11:29 As many have pointed out, this is a photo of a MBP, not an Air. I feel so stupid, I didn't look closely (these damn things all look the same lol), this was my old work machine, which I dual-booted asahi linux on as a test before getting my own personal Air.
oh btw. it doesnt seem like this markdown document is up on github yet
> I use arch btw
Ever given NixOS a try? I can 100% imagine a noboilerplate video about the wonders of a declarative OS :)
EDIT: Just seen that you've replied to another comment mentioning it :D
+1 I approve
are you sure #2 is an error? $300 is indeed 11x cheaper than apple's $3,300 upgrade cost
@@ME0WMERE I think he meant "is 11x as expensive" instead of "costs 11x more" , which... the version in the video is still what I'd say.
This year, Apple and Microsoft has done everything in their power to make me use Linux. Thanks guys
Microsoft works hard to make Windows worse every year as usual. But what's the problem with Macs?
@@sirbuttonhd egregious pricing, for one
@@rokiesensei it’s Unix
Apple's new hardware platform blows the socks of everything else though, I'm envious. This level of integration will be hard to replicate for the rest of the market, but hey - we're already _fast._
I started daily driving Linux shortly after the Windows 11 leak back in 2021.
Thank you Microsoft. Thank you for making such a bad product that I started to reconsider using it.
Now I am happily using Arch.
The issue is that if you're working in an environment that requires some "security" certificate like SOC2 or FedRAMP, one of the requirements is to have the organization manage all of the computers, which means installing corporate spyware on all corporate machines. Nobody is making that for Linux so there's a rising anti-Linux movement in corporate and it sucks.
if it's for work, it's fine using not Linux. also it MUST be a separate device, not your personal one (I'm saying it because in a lot of companies you use your personal laptop for work, which I think is stupid)
SSH into your workstation from home at home?
What about virtual machines? Installing corporate spyware on your personal computer is terrible, if I were forced to do it then I would try virtual machines.
@@dr.c2195 But then the corporate only paid for spyware licenses that are made for Macbooks, so now everyone must work on a Macbook. No Linux allowed since the spyware doesn't work there, VM or no.
I was a programmer with IBM until 8 years ago, and unless there was a business case for remaining with Windows, all developers had been switched to SUSE Linux a few years before.
In countries where you seldom have electricity, a good laptop with a powerful battery is life-changing. Desktops are just terrible in that kind of situation. Since I only have 1 hour of electricity every 5 hours, my desktop PC started collecting dust as I started relying on a laptop. This might be solved by installing solar panels, but that's quite expensive.
That's a great point!
Though you probly arent' getting wifi without power huh?
Cos mobile phones can't act as wireless hotspots...
@@stephenhookings1985 The cell towers probably don't have power as well during these intervals. Assuming OP lives in a country where the government practices rolling brownouts.
I don't really know how different it is in your country, but in Europe or North America, solar panels are cheap. You make it seem expensive because you forgot to write: "Buying solar panels to power my entire house is expensive". Powering a single computer off of solar is very cheap.
Great video. I am transitioning from windows to linux. I tried multiple distros and stayed in dual boot for the last couple of years. What held me back was the videogames and the music editing software. I clicked on this video to see the problem we have with laptops. And not only I learned a lot about the issues they have, but I also discovered some solutions to them, to then learning how to fully transition to linux and its advantages on the way.
Great news! Yeah, Bitwig, Reaper, and Steam will get you so far :-)
Hadn't heard about Reaper - thanks for the reccomendation! @@NoBoilerplate
Yeah, same with the music production part. So many plugin, vst just doesnt work or alot of hassle to work
Yeah for me the VST hassle still keeps me on Win, even though I only use Reaper and Bitwig.
That was a hold up for me only it was the XCode program on Mac, now I use Intellij which is paid and proprietary but is the same across my Linux machine, mac, and windows when I am forced to use them, and is essentially android studio so it's fine... problem is that Intellij and the android SDK especially are so large and inefficient that even a powerful desktop struggles to run them next to even a lightweight program like a browser displaying text.... or a music player, let alone the virtual android emulator. Wasn't always like this though. Once, long ago, I ran android studio and the SDK, and the emulator, and a bunch of heavy tabs on a laptop with minimal RAM and still had resources to spare. Now with a machine that has 4x the RAM, a dedicated GPU, and many many times more CPU speed, I can barely load one android reference wiki tab next to android studio or intellij with the android SDK. Seriously, how does a page with just text manage to consume more than half a gig of ram per tab? Google and Microsoft both have developer documentation that is so bad I have to print to PDF to save from running out of RAM... both on my 16GB laptop and my 32GB desktop. Most other pages, even youtube are way smaller and consume less CPU, and the android studio and sdk eating 12 gigs by itself isn't helping. I have JUST enough RAM for Linux, if I used Windows, I'd be even more screwed.
Laptops are preferred mostly by students, as they often live in small dorms with no space for a proper desktop, and are changing their living arrangements constantly (e.g. moving between their parents' home and the dorm, changing the dorm, etc). That's when the whole "gaming laptop" and "mobile workstation" stuff starts to become a reasonable choice.
As a student it is also the convenience of being able to everything from taking handwritten notes to 3d modelling on a single device that I can stick in my bag and take to lectures.
There is no such thing as a "gaming laptop". Laptops are never acceptable to game with, nor can they be made to game with. No, not even the ones that are branded as "gaming laptops" with a 4080 GPU in them. They are made to sit on your lap to type, code or for multimedia projects, that's it. No gaming, ever.
Corporate users also like laptops because of recent events, since your employees can bring their workstation home if needed.
@@spankyjeffro5320 Obviously you won't get anywhere near the same performance to cost ratio as a desktop but this is serious hyperbole. I render video, 3D models, and play AAA games on max graphics with my 3060 laptop I bought in 2021. I get at least 60 FPS with pretty much everything and thermals max around 80 in near-silence. Again, desktop better, but gaming laptops clearly exist. It's my only option in my circumstances and it's worked perfectly well for gaming so far.
Asus Zephyrus G14 if you're wondering.
@@spankyjeffro5320 mfw I open a game on my laptop: 😈
Using a Linux workstation is like using a bidet. You don't know what you've been missing until you've tried it. Especially when you go on vacation without one (having to use Windows again). Then you get that immense liberating feeling when you get back from vacation and take a dump at home and the bidet is there (using your Linux workstation again).
gross! I love it!
Greatest analogy I've ever seen
I used Linux (Ubuntu) as a secondary OS from 2010 to around 2016. It wasn't as good back then, but now I would never go back to Windows after I returned to Linux, this time EndeavourOS (Arch with a GUI installer and a great community) when Windows 11 was released.
this is one of the analogies of all time, lol
this is like using notepad compared to vim
Met in college a guy who was getting a masters in Sciences and Technologies of Information. The guy has used laptops all his life, and struggled with some concepts of a desktop. One example was that he asked me for help as he was trying to do something in one of the Workstations at uni's lab, but it didn't respond to keystrokes. I told him to look that the keyboard he was using was plugged on the workstation on the side. He didn't notice at all because all of those years in laptops hardwired his brain to thinking the keyboard controls the screen next to it.
Wow
Package managers will NEVER matter to the layperson because there isn't a good built-in GUI. Just because I have been using apt and winget for as long as I can remember doesnt mean my mom wants to.
Gnome software / Kde discover already exists
Most major distributions come with a GUI for the package manager, end users can just pretend it's an app store and use the computer like any other Windows/iOS/Android device.
If you want to download and run things from the Internet there's AppImage which lets people package GNULinux software in a distro-independent way (basically how Windows software works, shipping with all required libraries), and WINE has gotten very good in recent years to the point that I barely find any bugs in the rare moment I need to run Windows software through it.
Ofcourse. Why would anyone bother typing/copying a command, which you first have to look up, if you could also click on a button that does the whole thing in the background. I use linux, but the whole 'using the console is so much faster and easier' is nonsense for 99% of users.
There is a built in and fairly good gui in most popular distros
@@G_unz apt isn't hard to learn. It wouldn't take you more that 10 minutes to learn the basic functionality. Typing is just certainly when it comes to installing things.
My dad just bought a new Windows 11S laptop for his business, needless to say... it's was the most infuriating laptop setups ever. Requires WiFi, requires Microsoft account, having to say no to location, diagnostics, hand-writing, internet history info etc., having to install Chrome, Windows refused, figured out the laptop was in S-mode, had to change that, retry installing Chrome, change the default browser to Chrome, being confronted by Settings to try Edge before switching, having to remember what file types I need to change.
It's frankly rude!
@@NoBoilerplate And of course Microsoft makes it easy to set Edge as the standard browser in one click!
You can basically cut all of it out in 30 minutes. Every OS has it's own trade offs. For Windows it's all about post-installation surgery.
@@CHEpachilo Yes, but it's for my dad. He is a simple man and he just needs Chrome with bookmarks for his tax program, Office 365 and the government's website for filing taxes
@@CHEpachilo I've already uninstalled/disabled every unnecessary program/service on my own Windows devices 🙃
9:19
"My whole production pipeline could run from a solar panel on a raspberry pi"
- No Boilerplate.
I don't think most people realize just how powerful this statement is.
It can run, but can it complete before the sunset?
@@az8560 Accumulator Battaries exist for a reason
@@rotteegher39 makes sense.
To be thrown into the ocean?
It _is_ admittedly powerful - but you can't cheat physics, in the end. :D Of course, you _can_ set it up so that it renders in segments whenever there's sunlight... :D
I love your approach to the problem and this video easily delivers a different perspective on a serious problem, with a valuable solution. But I have to say that functions like getting copy paste from my phone to my laptop without any special app that doesn’t work half of the time, it’s very nice. An easy solution to also consider for those who needs a laptop and want to save their back, is to get a workstation setups where you can connect your laptop but not using any of it for the actual working.
Could you boot off of a portable external SSD at that point?
I have a laptop which is the one I use at Uni, an 8th gen Intel i5 with 16gb of RAM, needless to say that it ran perfect with its native OS which was Windows 10, I say was because one day I turned it on with the surprise that now it was updated to Windows 11 lol. I thought to myself “well maybe isn’t that bad” but after that day I experienced a significant worse experience. Slower startups, overheating and less battery life. Last month I changed to Linux and was definitely one of the best decisions I could’ve made. Started with Zorin OS (Ubuntu based) and currently planning on trying more distros later.
Try hard to avoid distro hopping. Desktop environments are the mpst important choice imo and if you are lacking software you could install it with nix package manager, or maybe by adding repos or manually downloading packages or compiling from source. Otherwise the important features of a linux distro are stability, reasonable update frequency especially security and a file system with snapshots for rollback if there are errors during an update. ZFS is considered the most stable filesystem with snapshots and btrfs is known for having certain issues.
@@gabfid3 i wonder why in linux mint my hardrives are getting SUPER BADLY HOT! like WORSE than windows when it used to be inverse, im guessing its drivers or something but dont know what drivers would have to use for my diffrent hardrives? it ALSO makes SSDs hot too! all "storage"
I use Debian12 - Bookworm
20 years ago Apple told us all to buy music on their music store. 8 years ago Apple told us instead to rent all of our music from their music subscription. The music store is in disrepair and full of obnoxious ads full of their rental service. You can't just "buy in" to a corporate ideology once, you have to buy into it forever or watch the thing you bought into fall into decay.
So bad isn't it!
The Jupiter Broadcasting podcasts call this the "strategy tax" - Companies will always make decisions in the interest of their overall corporate strategy and goals, even if that means making some aspect of an individual product objectively worse.
And that is true for all corporations.
Always remember this, kids!
They just want your best - your money. (This sentence works so much better in German...) And they're playing the long game.
Rent-seeking is basically another way to say someone is trying to exploit others. If someone expects you to pay them every month, there's a good chance they're doing something unethical.
@@ToyKeeper Hi TK, funny seeing you here! 😁
This was just the topic at my family's Christmas gathering... 🤔🙄
Something worth mentioning is that laptops not only need to thermal throttle to protect themselves, they need to thermal throttle to protect YOU, like a desktop cpu will allow itself to get to 99C before throttling because that's the temperature it can safely get to before being at risk of damage, but with a laptop, that temperature would be enough to burn you if you were resting on a poorly covered lap or if you rested your hands on the wrong spot on the keyboard, which is often one of the larger reasons why the same chips get worse performance, especially in extended endurance tests, because they have to throttle sooner so that they don't burn you.
oh dang that would have been a really good point for the video! thanks!
That should be an option in bios. I'll take the risk if it means more fps
It's true, I learned from experience. Having a laptop on my lap running a game is like playing with fire.
Everything you wrote is wrong. EVERYTHING is factually INCORRECT.
@@Ludak021you could've spent five minutes Googling before writing that.
E.g. on AMD laptops there's STAPM -- Skin Temperature Aware Power Management.
Thing is literally meant to keep chassis under ~45-50C, because at that temperature you already can get burns with prolonged contact.
There's equivalent of that in smartphones as well, even more critical there.
My last job gave us a cash stipend instead of providing work laptops, and it was great. I started out with my old linux laptop, but once I started running out of memory I just brought an old desktop to work and got a lightweight chromebook for meetings (also we worked in education so most of our users were on chromebooks anyway, it's nice to use the same kind of hardware). Even counting the original price of the desktop, my total cost was a little less than the entry-level MBP my coworker was using, but with quadruple the memory and storage.
Great title :) Great vid. Made me start the process of dual (actually triple) booting my bootcamp partition.
I really don't think the problem is laptops, but rather software becoming slower, and this is the most important thing I think Linux provides: a layer for a traditional and performant Unix ecosystem to thrive. If you start looking, you'll find that ecosystem, with window managers and shell scripting and composable software. It's really amazing.
That is an important factor too, agreed. But we live in a world where every single machine should have 64GB of ram. It's nuts!
As much as I agree with you, I think having 64GB of ram by default would make things worse.
I'm mostly coming from a gaming background, but I have been around long enough to see games x10 in storage capacity needs. A game like call of duty can require nearly 150 GBs of storage space and a not insignificant amount of ram despite not looking or playing much better than the game its a remake off 10 years ago that required a fraction of the hardware to run properly. With the crunch and pressure going on in development studios, especially in gaming, you take any quick fix you can get. Who needs file compression or coding a function yourself when you can import 500 libraries.
back in the day people tried to reuse and cut corners anywhere they could because of hardware limitations. I remember seeing a TH-cam video about a retro game Dev flipping individual bits to reach some weird computer science magic with a ruleset to modify textures on the fly in game instead of having to pack in more premade textures.
Maybe they shouldn't all come with 64gib of ram, but they should all come with a reasonably priced upgrade path if you need 64gib ram.
@@eccomi21On the other end of the spectrum, I support hardware with just 8192 bytes of ROM and 512 bytes of RAM, with low-power modes and low latency requirements measured in microamps and microseconds. It'd be nice if more programmers had to do this while learning, in order to learn how to write small, efficient code.
@@georgehelyarthis 💯
6:38 One thing to note is to be careful when purchasing office PCs (especially from the likes of Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc.). While you will likely be able to upgrade most of your hardware, sometimes they add roadblocks like proprietary cables or weird motherboard layouts. Still more upgradeable than most laptops though
Sure, but best bargains is to invest in some old high-end hardware, ancient generations of workstations. Real Tanks for the road, rock solid, and cheap AF, designed to last years or with so much connectivity they can still evolve, even as laptop formfactor.
They don't do that so much anymore. You're thinking the mid-2000s, when Dell was really bad about having their own PSU pinouts.
@@TheRogueXHave you looked inside an Alienware lately? IDK about their new stuff, but the Aurora was full of proprietary crap.
@@TheRogueX unfortunately still a thing with many client desktops from dell, hp, lenovo, but getting better. Even bigger workstations have proprietary psu (non modular) connectors and limited so you cant really swap stuff. You end up with that amount of connectors and cables for that amount of power. One would have to upgrade psu and motherboard to upgrade the machine in that situation
HP should just be avoided in general
That's why I'm planning to build my dream desktop next year for development, streaming, video editing/rendering, gaming, etc. Too many bottlenecks with laptops too soon and cheaper experience inevitably.
I use a laptop for my daily code activities and a desktop for games and multimedia. Rendering videos is twice as fast on my desktop, and it uses way older components that my laptop does. Also there is more flexibility! Regardless of what OS you use, there's things like storage capabilities, IO and live streaming that really benefit from 2 pc setup.
I love to use Lineage OS on my phones, Debian testing for command line and Windows LTSC on my gaming rig. There really isn't a one size fits all system, you just pick and choose stuff suited for your needs.
Using Linux was the best decision I ever made
same!
Ikr, windows is just terrible now.
I dabbled in Linux a bit but I am still in the phase of finding a distro, what does the community recommend besides the user-friendly Ubuntu, I, 'm looking for the authentic Linix experience and don't mention Arch Lol
@@akiba2x0 Try Manjaro. It kinda combines the convenience of Ubuntu with the benefits of Arch. And since it's based on Arch, the great Arch wiki still 100% applies.
@@akiba2x0 Ubuntu is a great place to start, don't overthink the distro
I have a gaming Laptop and don't have most of the problems you mentioned. I upgraded a second m2 ssd and my ram without problems...
Cpu + gpu isn't overheating because I undervolted while still overclocking. Temps aren't even reaching the 85°C mark, (except for cpu in stress tests but irl that never happened for any extended time...). I ciuld bring my Temps a few C down by repasting but that's work for next year as they're still fine now..
Argument for portability these days is hybrid work as that’s becoming more of the norm. As a software developer, taking my laptop places that allows me to peer program and perform knowledge sharing sessions with live real code is invaluable.
The only alternative that I could accept is having some sort of desktop in the cloud that I can create tunnels to /ssh into. But this creates a hard dependency on always having a connection (which is generally a safe assumption these days) and having a more complex setup to streamline my development environment.
As someone who works in construction my office is always in a different place. I have my desktop at home, my laptop for when I'm on the go, and my phone for quick access to files on site. I keep all my work files in a directory on dropbox which is integrated into the filesystem of all three devices. Many of the applications I use are browser based so they automatically sync. I have no issues starting something on one device and finishing it on another. I always prefer using the desktop if I can, but sometimes I have to trade efficiency for accessibility.
not a suggestion but you can use VS code on a cloud VM, great for portability i use the free VM
The problem is not laptops, the problem is developers and their incredible skill to use all the hardware they can use.
Oh so that's why a measly Electron editor needs 10 GB of RAM "because they used all they can use". Yeah no thanks.
@@roflmagister5 I'm pretty sure @KoltPenny was being sarcastic - if you missed it.
@@roflmagister5 Electron is just Chrome without an address bar
the problem is IT management - gaining more than developers and creating more (problems). But banks are happy :)
r5 yeah i have no idea what your talking about, never had vscode(ium) use more than 1-2gb of ram, also ram is really cheap these days just get more
Another option, depending on the kind of tasks you want to run, is to have a headless home server. I recently built mine, and it's absurdly fast (it boots in
perfect!
I, too, aspire to do this. Apalrd has an excellent video on the topic.
@@NoBoilerplate In the future, maybe. For many people, running your own Cloud Server from Home to beam to your 4G connected Phone, Tablet, Laptop seems tricky and expensive.
The other problem is exclusive content. No-one wants to miss out on the latest movie, show, game, and that also applies to software. But these Mega Corporations build curated ecosystems to lock you in, or lock you out.
For that reason, I think the best tool is for the consumer to be wise about it. We can access all the major platforms, by differentiating them based on form-factor.
We've got Phone, Tablet, Laptop, Desktop, and Console. And platforms of Apple, Google, Microsoft, Open-Source and Proprietary. Being wise is to match these up with their best optimisation.
@@NoBoilerplate
Continuing on from my last comment:
In the worst case scenario, you would have a Microsoft Phone, Open-Source Tablet, Laptop from Google, and an Apple Desktop. It's not even cheap, but the experience is very subpar.
In the best case scenario, it would be an Android Phone, iOS Tablet, Windows Laptop, Desktop PC with Linux, and a Console by Sony.
For my personal scenario, I'm saving up for:
- Samsung S24+, with Razer JungleCat for a pocketable gaming system
- iPad Mini 7, for the powerful M1 chipset, medium 8.7in size, with App Sideloading option (thanks EU). And combine that with the GameSir G8 controller.
- Frameworks 16 AMD Laptop. It's portable but decent sized for work. It is well designed and upgradable. And Windows Software is very handy to access.
- Custom Gaming PC build. Potentially running something like Zorin OS, maybe as a dualboot option.
- Sony PS5 Pro. Worth it's cost for the graphics, longevity, and exclusives.
....this would work well for most people, but personal reasons can have people switching these around for other reasons.
Unless I missed something new in the last couple of years, SSHFS will freeze your mounted drives as soon as your connection drops, and you won't be able to reconnect them unless you restart your PC. Eventually you will lose data.
Did this improve lately? Have you had any issues like this?
I like your suggestions.
I have always used my laptop as a transportable desk top.
When I was a kid in the 90/00's I couldn't wrap my head around why I didn't need drivers and other stuff with Linux and why I didn't have to go to websites for software. Then it hit me one day and it changed my view of the world.
Of course you need drivers…. What are you even talking about lol
oh that's cute. try being a teen doing that time running nearly every different distro on distrowatch and even recompiling the kernel just because the brand new off the shelf hardware wouldn't work or that one pcmcia card wouldn't work.
@@JonathanTheZombie I thought it was obvious but if you want me to be more specific, by "i didn't need drivers" I meant "I didn't need to go to a website or run an update program to download drivers"
@@zekodun Ok guy, not trying to make it a competition.
@@zekodun
Did you have anything relavent to say, or are you just bragging about your level of foolishness in wasting time and energy to solve problems that didn't exist (inability to run hardware which you didn't own). while running tons of different distros for... what purpose other than to waste disk space?
The only barrier remaining for gaming on Linux is that some multiplayer games (looking at Rainbow 6 Siege) simply do not enable their anticheat on Linux platforms. A gamer on Linux simply won't be allowed to play online due to a developer's decision. I'm sure this issue will also disappear with time, but for me it's the last remaining barrier.
yeah, here's hoping they follow Epic's example with fixing easyanticheat!
For me rainbow is the barrier as well but I just dualboot. At this point I can't even just browse the web on windows.
It feels so slow compared to Linux that I find it easier to reboot to Linux, if I need to do literally anything besides gaming.
Yep. I'll change to Mint fully once Linux can natively play any game I want without needing any sort of VM or compatibility modifier like Wine.
Until then, I have no choice; Linux simply is not currently a gaming contender.
@@spankyjeffro5320 I spotted a fallacy in your comment. So, you're ok with installing/using Microsoft's Visual C++ libraries, but somehow installing/using Wine's libraries is a no-no..? How come?
Without Windows C++ libraries installed/updated you won't be able to play games or use software on Windows, same story with Linux (wine/proton libraries). They both need libraries (like .dll files on windows) to run software.
Is it becouse they are pre-installed or auto-magically downloaded on Windows? Then you should try something like ZorinOS Linux, it comes with wine libraries pre-installed, just like how libraries are pre-installed on Windows.
I have noticed this myself after making the leap, the solution is to simply no longer play these games where the developer refuses to enable anti-cheat. They are generally terrible games anyway.
It's been claimed that the upcoming ending of support for Windows 10 will lead to something in the region of 200 million machines ending up becoming ewaste due to Windows 11 requiring TPM, and other hardware features, which older laptops and compute devices do not possess.
That Linux still isn't seen as a valid way to refurbish these machines for long term use and save them from this fate is a huge shame.
On the bright side, it could mean 200 million fast and cheap Linux boxes.
Way back in time. I'd get pallets from biding on Compaq's from Las Vegas casinos when their leases where up. I cleaned and upgraded what I could. Compaq had the best service system till HP bought them and killed it off. Today they all want you to buy new and waste the old. Loaded them with CP/M. Gave them to elementary school my sons went to.
Considering there's people in the wild still using Windows 7 and business still using XP mechines I doubt they'll all flood in at one time.
Windows 7 just finally lost support from steam since chrome stopped supporting it. And rather than switching to something like Linux Mint they're going out of their way to downgrade and block Steam's update lol.
@@trayvibez399 yeah, I'm sure there are also plenty of Android 4.x phones in use in developing countries where people can't afford to upgrade. All ending support will do is lead to a bunch of vulnerable devices in widespread use.
@@trayvibez399Imagine a country where the vast majority of its population uses an operating system with an ever-increasing number of vulnerabilities that will never be patched. Why aren't any governments viewing the sunset of Windows 10, the (unfortunately) most-used operating system in the world, as a threat to national security?
This is the first video of yours I've ever watched and I'm very happy with it. This year I bought a very slim, light, low spec laptop and my main use for it is to RDP into my powerful (albeit Windows) home desktop PC
Welcome! Glad we have the same idea, and if Windows works for you, that's fine by me!
I wonder if I could interested you in another video of mine: th-cam.com/video/bJQj1uKtnus/w-d-xo.html
My favourite experience with Linux package managers is when they tell me package C requires package A, package A tells me it needs package B and package B won't install without package C. Good times.
For the most part a thing of the past, at least on Debian based distros, like Ubuntu, Mint, PopOs and such, but from what I hear it's similar for other package based distros, such as Fedora for example.
Lol yeah. I keep trying to use Linux nore but also keep finding myself frustrated in trying to do simple things. I cannot tell you how much time ive dumped into just getting it to use my preferred keyboard layout to login.
I get people like to sing praises of it but when something that simple needs me to dig around for hours. And looking for help in online forums gets me insulted half the time. Tough sell
I think app distribution in Linux is fundamentally broken and user hostile. I believe this is because packages on Linux share so many dependencies. You casually want to remove a package and accidentally delete system critical dependencies and the system won't boot anymore. Or you cannot upgrade your system because a package you installed created a conflict with the new versions of system packages. The Windows approach of distributing apps with all batteries included is WAY more userfriendly. Linux slowly gets something similiar with Flatpak, Snaps and so on. But it was not mature enough when I tested some Snaps on Ubuntu.
Don't forget driver hell. I wanted to convert an old touchscreen netbook into a linux pseudo-tablet and it was basically impossible because I needed an internet connection to get the "non-free" drivers that machine needed, but needed the drivers to get the wifi chip working.
@@superslash7254 I'm sorry, but is Windows (or Mac) any better in that regard? If you need a specific vendor driver, you are out of luck, whether it's Windows, Linux or Mac. At least Linux kernel is coming pre-loaded with a bunch of drivers, that give you some basic functionality. For example, I have an old laser printer, and latest MacOS no longer has any drivers support for it. Linux has it out of the box.
Switching to Linux was the best decision I have ever made. You highlighted many of the advantages, but people underestimate the value of full customisation. I know it is not for everyone, but 2 days programming using i3 and tmux, I knew I would NEVER go back to anything else. Even if Ubuntu was as unstable as people who never tried Linux think it is, it would be worth it just for i3.
I've been wanting to invest into a proper desktop setup for years, but I travel a lot, (on the train around 10 hours a week) where a laptop is just a better choice. Even if someone is in my camp there, I do recommend grabbing a docking station, (since you are using a Thinkpad, aren't you) and having a proper monitor (or 2) with keyboard and mouse setup at least at home, so your ergonomics don't suffer.
If you travel, a laptop's your best option, of course, and as you say, there's no finer machines than Thinkpads :-D
i started to use kali linux because ubuntu store were a pain to update (and to make work) so i end up using kali and flatpak for my daily activities and work, to play i just use my xbox series s or my nintendo switch, i think i am not going to use windows unless videogames are more a subscription than other thing, but for now i am fine like this.
@@omarjimenezromero3463 You really shouldn't be using Kali as a daily driver, it is not meant for that.
I have been a ThinkPad user for decades (in plural at this point). But they aren't what they used to be. Had to replace the motherboard on my T480 three times on extended warranty!
Next time I will probably get a Framework laptop. I will miss the trackpoint for sure though!
Personally, I really want to get a FrameWork laptop when it comes to a travel machine, just because of the e-waste reduction. Pretty sure they don't do docking stations, but it's really easy to set them up for use with a proper monitor alongside mouse and keyboard, and I doubt they'd object to a third party making docking stations for them...
Personally as a developer I'm perfectly fine continuing to use my laptop, because I like the idea of being able to develop things to be accessible to the lowest common denominator (or lower). An aging laptop is a good optimisation checker.
2010 laptops are still insanely powerful for their size. The only thing they are not good at anymore is rendering modern web pages and anything 3d accelerated graphics.
@@youtubeenjoyer1743 yeah. God, webpages are incredibly bloated these days.
Depends. Once program compiles six minutes on Ryzen 5900X and slightly over hour on i7-7500U laptop (six times less cores, older architecture and frequency), it's not practical if your time has some value. For programming in Python or Javascript it's different. If you can work remotely it's fine.
@@pavelperina7629 are you compiling the Linux kernel with a billion modules?
@@youtubeenjoyer1743 No, large scale C++ Windows application consisting of roughly 150 projects/modules dealing with control of electron microscope, drivers for some third party detectors etc. and application specific tools and automatic procedures. Most modules use Qt, some use OpenCV, Eigen, Google Tests, nlohmann json, ... but there are not even that many 3rd party libraries.
Actually much smaller project with more external dependencies and poor structure can compile just as long.
Thank you for this video. I checked the rest of your channel and I don't think it's for me but I will bookmark this video and send it to every person who asks what laptop they should buy in the gaming, photography and Davinci Resolve Facebook groups I'm in. Someone told me to buy an M3 MacBook Pro recently.
Out of interest, I compared it to my current editing PC and to buy the same amount of M.2 storage alone would have cost more than my entire 7950x/4090 system. That is, if Apple actually had 18TB storage as an option.
On the surface they look like decent machines for some tasks, but the cost skyrockets as soon as you add decent amounts of RAM and storage.
EDIT: Thanks for changing the title, I really appreciate it!
I can't believe I got tricked into watching another "Linux is the answer to everything, and everyone else is wrong" video.
I think you make some good points. I certainly agree about the problems of non-upgradeable and obsolescence design, as well as the ridiculous price of RAM/Memory upgrades. I don't agree with the picture you paint of the existing inconveniences of laptops, and how much better life would be with the alternate set-up. Since my most recent laptop upgrade 3 years ago, the form-factor issue is no longer a thing for me. We're at the point where a single Thunderbolt cable can be used to charge, display and add peripherals, so at my home desk my laptop becomes a desktop; this is on integrated graphics.
The reason I dislike the Linux argument isn't because it's a bad argument, but I've heard it so many times before that I really think the alternate title would fit much better. You do also emphasize workstations. In my case, I have a latency-sensitive use case for software that would need a latency-inducing workaround on Linux.
As far as laptops, my persisting issue (for Windows) is how quick the battery life diminishes over lifespan. Other than that, I would say that old budget gaming laptops are in the same category as old workstations - it gets the job done until it dies, and it's old enough to have replaceable parts for RAM and storage.
seriously i hate these types of videos so much. when we got to the Linux part of the video I already got annoyed. Linux has its place and I use it for my home server but day to day I don't want to be bothered to use it. I do all my day to day work on my Windows desktop and M1 Macbook Pro because I don't have the time/desire to tinker with Linux on the daily. These videos get more and more tiresome due to the "Linux is the answer to everything, and everyone else is wrong" style like you said
Linux evangelists paint way too rosy picture of the software compatibility. I play iRacing using Oculus Quest VR with Thrustmaster wheel and also have Elgato streamdeck as a button-box, that's 4 different products from 4 different companies and none of them have any Linux support.
As a web developer, computation power is not holding me back in a significant way. And I love being able to bring my work with me, not only outside, but most importantly for me, around my house. Sometimes I feel like working on something, but I do not want to keep sitting at my desk after working from home all day. I would rather be sitting on the couch and using my TV as a monitor while using a wireless mouse and keyboard, or just laying in bed. Also, only having to mantain one computer is a lot easier and I can be sure everything is set up the way I want to regardless or where I am working from.
Certainly, if you don't need any more power, then you're good. I'm the same when I'm writing or casually browsing.
But npm install is quite slow, right? And 500ms re-bundling times add up over the course of the days and weeks! etc
@@NoBoilerplate True, but I would rather focus on being more efficient with my time first, and only look to upgrade my hardware once I start noticing it holding me back regardless. After all, it does not matter if a workstation saves me a couple of minutes a day, if the same amount of minutes or probably even more go to waste somewhere else. So whenever I feel like I have spent too long doing something, I reflect on that, so that it does not take as long next time around. And that to me, is more worthwhile than throwing money at a problem. However, if hardware is trully the limiting factor, I do upgrade. And if that means getting a workstation at some point, then so be it.
@@sergiojimenez4595if you like you using the crappy laptop keyboard outside of your desk you are lost. Instead of switching from your desk to somewhere else with the small laptop screen and keyboard you should take a 2 minute stretch break.
!RemindMe 5 years. Stranger's back pain
I don't think a powerful desktop PC will be noticeably faster than a modern MBP for most web development tasks. Of course if you need powerful graphics or tons of memory then a desktop is the way to go. The point is that there is very little performance compromise since the release of M1 (at least for what I'm doing). It is nice especially as a remote worker to not be tied down to a desktop, you can hook up your monitors/kb for a full workstation setup at home/office and still have the freedom to work from anywhere if needed.@@NoBoilerplate
Been fully converted to Linux for about 3 years now, never been happier. I still experience bugs of course, but I had those on WIndows all the time too. At least now I can do something about it when things go wrong. Troubleshooting on Windows is such a joke.
love Linux but am still learning how to not fuk everything up like never screw up when using rm command I tried using it to remove a backup file I did not want but my PC was zero byte at the time an now most my dowlaods files won't show up XD woops
@@senritsujumpsuit6021 There are utilities that use the trash concept you're probably used to from graphical file browsers to give you a safety net. I'm using one called 'trash' on macOS, but a quick web search lead me to 'trash-cli' for linux which seems to be similar. Then you can use this command instead of rm (or you can alias it if you want).
Just need Adobe software to work as well on Linux as it does on my M1 Air, then I’ll switch. (I use Premiere and Lightroom)
The biggest issue with Windows for me are the ENDLESS updates. Every time I turn on my PC, it starts downloading updates in the background which kills my performance.
@@abdelkarimouzzine5671 Are you bound to Adobe Software for work? If not there are good alternatives to them that are also free.
So which pc desktop do you recommend for good specs for programming?
By the way you mentioned music production. But how does it deal with audio interfaces and commercial VSTs? Last time I tried doing music on Linux, there was no dedicated ASIO driver for my interface and I couldn't record a guitar properly because of the latency. I don't think the plugins I use even have installers for Linux
i double that, after getting accostumed to endeavouros on my laptop i am considering switching to it on my desktop too, but am worried my cheap interface and... ahem... legit vsts might not work as well as in windows
@@nuisanceguru I'm worried about my actual legit VSTs that need iLok to work
The company I interned at split the difference on ergonomics by assigning us powerful laptops and workstations which were just a dock for the laptop, so you could take your work machine out with you (we did tech support, this was occasionally a godsend) but come back and hook it to two monitors, mouse and keyboard just by connecting one cable. It was kinda cool.
The company I work at just hands out old laptops and expects you to buy your own shit if you want an ergonomic workstation.
I manage our IT and we do the same.
For ease of use, cost, and productivity reasons it's just about the only sane option with Hybrid, WFH, field service work, and customer visits all being a thing.
Unless you'd like to complicate your infrastructure with cloud PCs and terminals... Which also isn't always possible when you have latency sensitive server applications that the workstations need to talk to.
Same when we switched to WFH, though I've found for 99% of my needs at home I can use Remote Desktop from my home desktop and get all the ergonomics of that setup without having to mess with any cables. Only thing I need to use the laptop natively for is testing if our code is currently working with 4k/variable DPI displays properly, as all my monitors are 1920x1080/1200.
Yeah that's how we do it too, all the developers have nicely specc'ed MacBook 16" M1's or a powerful windows laptop and our office has screens with keyboards that you can plugin with 1 USB-C cable. And you get a stipend to setup a home office so you can work comfortably there. I think this is the best of both world, because of the nature of our work we are also required to work/develop at clients so workstations would be out. But well spec'ed M1's are all the power I could ever need for development (unless you do AI or something). I have a top of the line gaming PC at home and a dock for my macbook that uses all my screens and it's great not to have to work in the cloud or have two machines you need to keep in sync.
Nah workstation and laptop as thin client. This is the way
I literally put "install linux on laptop" on my todo list like 2 days ago, your video timing is consistently incredible
Based
You can see my comment for more detail but be warned, this may fail spectacularly. Be ready for WiFi to not work (has happened to me on 3 different laptops and for 2 of my friends). Have a phone nearby to google problems and mess with the CLI to solve it. Consider plugging directly into your router if this happens while you troubleshoot
@@2raddude I have Never had any WiFi issues, just as annoying as It Works on my machine, bringing up a very specific issue had is also Just as dumb, and pointless.
@@2raddude Yeah I've had some issues before, put Arch on the last laptop I had once it started getting slow and the audio drivers didn't work at all (literally spent like a month troubleshooting them and nobody on the forums could help either lmao) so I have some experience troubleshooting Linux things - not too worried about it, worst case scenario I just divert to Ubuntu and if that fails then I revert to Windows and live with the ~slow~
Get ready for your battery life to be cut in half when going from Windows to Linux. It's nuts
Now that's proper explanation.. Kudos !
Thank you for yet another great video! Could not agree with you more. I'm using linux as desktop os and run linux servers since 2003. I can confirm switching to linux is the life changing experience, you've been warned :) It's not clear to me if you think mini pc is good or bad, but I'm getting geekom a5 as my next desktop machine. It's not a workstation of course, but a pretty good desktop with upgradable ssd and ram.
Some people prefer one machine where all their applications are installed that can manage every scenario decently well while being portable as opposed to using multiple machines.
Also 99% of people don't need extra power offered by a desktop setup and many don't make the decision about their computer hardware, their employer does that.
SSH
@@DryPaperHammerBro not everyone has so great internet connection. When I'm on a train, I may have the absolute best workstation at home, but SSHing to it would work like garbage.
If you suggest SSH to someone who isn't already a computer nerd you've already lost. Hell, I am a computer nerd and that sounds like a terrible plan.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 I've been using computers in a pretty nerdy way since the early 80's, including various flavours of Linux and yes, it sounds a terrible plan for 99.99999999% of the users....
There is another reason, unfortunately, to keep Windows around: Legacy software. I haven't noticed you touch on this in the video, so apologies if you actually did and I missed it, but working in a niche environment or on a niche project not rarely makes you dependent on legacy software you have to use. For me personally, this is a very common issue with Illustrator Addons, where my workflow quite simply dies if I would have to spend 90% of my time spent on a project either trying to make an addon work on Linux or re-create with much effort without said addon what could be done in seconds with it. It's that reason - and gaming - why I have to keep my dual boot as of now. But one day...
There's also loads of very expensive industrial-use software, like many CAD programs, where the developers just flat out refuse to support Linux because they believe there's no market there.
@@Lttlemoi Sometimes they did, for longtime, then dropped it for development cost reasons. Siemens NX was available on Linux, i.e. I regret they just used TCL/TK for its interface instead of Qt... In someway, they kept publishing NX for most Unices on the market, Darwin included (so yeah it was available on Mac too !).
@@Lttlemoi Absolutely; among a bunch of other things I do e.g. security print design as well as type design, two rather small industries that both use (sometimes decades old) software (the type community is more modern though) like Excentro (Mac only; $500) or Glyphs (Mac only; $200). Funnily enough these two examples are exclusive to Mac, so the classic Linux-Windows dilemma actually has a lesser known sibling, particularly for the various design industries.
It's funny how, in the academic world that I live in, this cuts in the other direction. A lot of our legacy software was originally written with the assumption that it would be running on some Unix-y system, and Linux is the best way to get it to run now.
Plenty of software is in use where the software vendor doesn't exist anymore. Maybe defunct or maybe bought out or just canceled the project. So you get no software updates, no Linux support, what you have is what it is. Even if the product did support Linux, I've had terrible experience with Linux application compatibility. Upgrade your distro and any Linux software that isn't shipped with your distro will no longer work. Windows backwards combability has gotten worse lately but it still is way better than Linux.
Awesome vid! I am interested to see where ARM goes in the next few years, but I think I will always be a two computer guy just like you said; a portable and small laptop and a powerful workstation... running linux of course!
I'm a Mac user and have been happy with that for a long time, but I've also been a Unix/Linux user for longer. Assuming I could run all of my preferred daily driver apps (and access server side stuff conveniently) on Linux I'd happily run Mint or Ubuntu on the desktop. Mint in particular is really nice.
7:05 when I went to university I bought myself a powerful desktop computer that I still use to this day and a very cheap laptop just for my notes/university work. Even back then it seemed like a no-brainer solution and I was so surprised when a lot of people that I knew either bought these expensive laptops that choked and died whenever they actually had to do demanding stuff or expensive computers but wouldn't be bothered to buy a laptop or tablet just because "I already got a powerful computer".
And now that internet speeds have improved so much, it's possible to stream high quality video and interact with your desktop remotely through software like Anydesk and Moonlight. Networking is quite possibly the least recognized area of computing advancement for the average user.
Chromebooks slotted into that niche of a 'light work' laptop so nicely :)
Owning 2 computers and syncing them is a gigantic PITA, there’s almost zero reason to use a desktop today, if you want lots or ram and storage just buy a pc laptop
I'm typing this comment using the same desktop I built back in 2012. It's still running perfectly fine. Over the years when I noticed performance was slowing, swapped out the hard drive with an SSD once they came down in price, a few years later I added some RAM and replaced the graphics card with parts I got from friends for free, and a few years after that I replaced the CPU cooler. How many laptops would I have run through by now? At least two. Hell I started my job in 2018 and I've already been through 3 laptops there and I'm about to get my 4th.
@@DigitalNomadOnFIRE This is what I think too. But for me, portability is incredibly important and a desktop setup will not let me have that.
The rabbithole of fixing things on Linux that Just Work (TM) on Windows runs deep, though. I have two desktops in two rooms, one Linux and one Windows, and a Framework laptop that dualboots into both Windows (which I only need light use of, so it's not even registered) and Linux. Right now I'm using Ubuntu MATE; I used to use Mint but stopped at the advice of those in the Linux Discord server. I do encounter regular issues trying to do fairly simple things. As one example of one not yet resolved: I keep experiencing screen tearing on the desktop attached to my family room TV during video playback, but it's not consistent and I've been unable to find the root cause. No matter what Nvidia drivers I use, what commands I run at startup, what settings I use in the browser or local video player, it still crops up. I've spent maybe 20-30 hours of my life troubleshooting issues just on that machine. Perhaps I'll install a different distro. When this same computer was my Windows machine (before I moved that registration key to my main desktop), I had none of these issues.
Also, I have yet to properly try it since switching my family room PC from Windows to Ubuntu, but I am dubious of the VR support. I have the base stations for my HTC Vive in there, but don't know if Vive software is supported on Linux, or how well Steam VR is supported, through Proton or otherwise.
I'm so sorry that nVidia are harming your experience. You don't need a different distro, you need a hardware manufacture that doesn't have contempt for open source :-(
I recently traded in my 2060 for the equivalent-benchmarking AMD card, and it was like night and day!
nVidia is better on Windows, AMD is better on Linux. Sorry about that :-/
@@NoBoilerplate Yeah; it is a pretty big caveat considering the marketshare of both companies. One of my friends is upgrading her computer soon and will be giving me her current GPU, which I believe is an RX 5500. Still doesn't help my VR situation much, as I believe AMD GPUs struggle there, but we'll see.
This is also something that's only comprised maybe 5-10 hours of my troubleshooting on this machine. Most everything else was resolved, but boy was it a struggle to find out what was going awry, even sometimes stumping those on forums and the Discord server. Even though I'm a full-time developer, there's lots of little hurdles to overcome on Linux I often don't have to on Windows, and while the same is true in reverse in some scenarios, it definitely crops up more often.
General Nvidia GPU compatibility on Linux is not ideal, and they've been at this level of half-baked for such a long time that they were actually better than AMD GPUs back before the open-source AMD drivers were created. They weren't better then than what they are now; it's just that AMD was so much worse in comparison, and also, Wayland wasn't a thing, so technically their conformance to the Linux graphics stack was more complete before. What I want to get to, though, is that X11 (which is the only option available on the MATE and Cinnamon desktop environments) has always had problems with vertical sync. So, that is why I suggest you try a Wayland compositor like KWin (KDE Plasma) or Mutter (GNOME), where vertical sync is a fundamental property of the protocol (which has actually made some gamers angry as you can't disable it to allow tearing unless your app supports the tearing protocol, of which there are basically none, but I digress).
As times have changed, AMD GPU compatibility on Linux has long since surpassed NVIDIA GPUs, especially regarding Wayland specifically. However, I don't want to be the guy to say, "Just buy AMD," which is why I want to highlight that Nvidia drivers have still improved a lot lately. Both KWin and Mutter seem to run fine with Wayland and should be more than sufficient for just video playback to a TV.
IMHO Linux Mint is the distro that Just Works, I don't know why are advicing against using it, as it solved driver problems and you could use up-to-date software (unlike more user-friendly ones, ahem-ZorinOS-ahem) where things are getting fixed. But yeah, Linux requires you to be able to maintain it. I want distro like ChromeOS - fast, simple, unbreakable.
@@saiv46 I was a Mint diehard for a number of years in the early-to-mid 10s. It Just Worked when Canonical was getting all weird and experimental and sus with Ubuntu. But it went through a period of stagnation around the 16.04-18.04 years (on the ubuntu side) and other distros leapfrogged it. These days, I'd suggest Pop for a new linux user who wants things to Just Work, or Xubuntu for a power user who wants the GUI to be as small as possible but still be useful.
I gather that Mint has started offering a build on top of Debian. That might be a good alternative to Pop, depending on what a user wants to do. It updates very slowly, but that can be a good thing if you prefer stability over cutting-edge.
Nice video!
The big seeling point for a laptop for me is the portability between homeoffice and company office. Plug it into a docking station with a sensible ergonomic setup and you've got a great workstation (esp. if you get some external cooling) and work on the train in between the two.
Remote access to virtual machines might make this advantage obsolete, but currently has too big drawbacks (reliance on good internet connection, limited hardware access, dependency on server) for me and (I'd suppose) many companies.
I've just been using dropbox. It integrates with your filesystem so at work I just save my files in the dropbox folder and I can open them at home no problem
@@FalconFlurry There's something to be said for taking your work with you and saving state. Now I'm 100% WFH so it's not an issue, but at one point I had an identical dock/monitor setup at home as I did at the office, and I could plug my laptop in at either location and resume working with even the cursor exactly where I left it.
Switching to NixOS from Windows for my dailiy driver has become one of the best decisions I have taken.
I enjoy the declerative functional approach to package management a lot. I reccomend it to those who feel like have wasted too much time trying to reproduce their system often and are quite familiar with Linux.
I'm really excited by nix and nixos, I try it out on a spare thinkpad every 6 months or so, and I get a bit further each time. One day I will be worthy!
One thing I like about NixOS is the ability to switch your desktop environment without much fuss, unlike other distros where you'll run into problems later on
you went from windows to straight for nixOS? I admire your bravery
True. It takes a lot of discipline to curate your packages against this. Even on Arch, it can be difficult to curate your own from-scratch desktop environment, but it's certainly easier than elsewhere @@MoroccanIbadi
can't recommend nixos enough, being able to temporarily install programs with no side effects is super nice, whether that's in your config or a temporary shell, it certainly feels a little jank but it's super nice
These days Linux DEs have become so user friendly that most people wouldn't know the difference. When I started with Linux over 15 years ago it was a much harder sell.
Currently running PopOS on a 2012 Mac Mini and it's been rock solid. When I need more performance, my old gaming rig does the heavy lifting, also in PopOS. I'm happy to say I've been completely Microsoft free for 3 years.
For me its when you had a stack of disk. 1st disk was compiler/linker the other 9 where Linux and basic applications. Took some time to get up and running. Only thing I did with windows was to do corporate support for clients. Now Linux is so easy to install for the every day user.
I love PopOS, I’m using it as a daily driver for my desktop. It’s mainly a programming / deep learning machine and I love it.
Dude i dont know if you will see this but you started my Nixos journey, obsidian journey, and rust journey. I feel like you are the reason of all my daily activities now :) thank you so much
Good stuff! I actually just got into this mentality as well. I use a laptop for running backing tracks for my church worship music as well as being able to build the set on the go. Initially I was was figuring out which "Powerhouse" laptop to buy that I could use as my main computer but I realized I only need something that's powerful enough to run the tracks an have headroom left over so it doesn't crash often. All the creation of this stuff can be done with my powerful workstation desktop.
Yes, Yes, Yes to all of your points. My 5 decade career evolved from broadcast TV to high end video production to multi media computing with digital art and programming. I've been heavily involved in, and educated by, various Linux / FLOSS communities for two decades (replacing extensive involvement, learning and product development in the Amiga community), but along side Linux I have been relying on Macs for my pro media & video production work. Your video here is great encouragement to accelerate my transition into producing all my music, video and media on Linux. I already have versions of Reaper, Resolve and Bitwig Studio installed on my (8-15 year old) Mac systems, but I've been sluggish in overcoming the familiarity factor of using my existing work flow and climb up the learning curve on those new tools. No more excuses or procrastination -- 2024 is the year I make a clean break! You've also convinced me to move up from subscriber to Patreon supporter to affirm the decision (and maybe get some help with my recent slow motion dive into learning Rust as well...)
Wonderful! Reaper and Bitwig are just incredible!
Any particular reason a video guy has to type away something in a programming language instead of actually filming and editing video? I'm doing media production for 20 years exactly because I'm functionally unable to tie the task algorithm to the language syntax. Also, you Rust knowledge will turn into rust in 2..3 years. From my experience with programmers (they often call me and pay me because they actually can't into proper video and sound), the only thing that isn't changing and there is always a demand, is C. Just plain old C.
And I just can't devote myself to turning into a full-blown software developer - I won't have any time to do the job I'm paid for and I like much more than just rotting away in front of a home computer display. Yes, I actually like to do camera work and do streaming. Yes, it involves computers. Yes, there is even some Linux out there (with web interface), and I set those Linux things up myself. BUT DON'T TURN A CAMERAMAN INTO A CODER!
I don't know what you do but I used Reaper, then switched to Ardour and I never had a need to go back to any of the other programs. I began when Fruity Loops was Fruity Loops, Audition, Cubase, Reason, Live, I am missing some software from Sony that it later changed its name, then I ended up using Reaper, then tried a Linux, tried reaper, then Ardour and 5 years later I'm still using ardour in Arch and to get it all you have to do is install Arch Linux as your OS and then: sudo pacman -S ardour.
Oh...check compatibility of your interface, I have a Tascam US 1800 collecting dust for the past 5 years
@@IgnatSolovey In no way was I suggesting that shifting to Linux or pursuing the ability to program is a requirement for doing digital media production, only saying that I and many others media creatives I know have enjoyed that journey. For me, constantly learning new computer media tech has been extremely rewarding and enjoyable career path that let me improve my workflow and automate many tasks, teach computer media production at an art college and build new software tools to enhance the 3d animation lab, and even develop and sell production software that helped other editors and videographers in their careers. In short, all the effort has paid off in much more freedom of choice and control over my tech, especially in all the Linux / FLOSS advantages. Looking forward to continuing to learn and grow and contribute more tools in the future, which learning Rust will definitely help me do!
@@arxaaron in my nightmares only I'm willing to exchange a camera for 3D animation. I'm living online since the age of 13 (of 42), and I'm with a computer since the age of 10 (most of the time I found gaming boring, by the way, and still do). I can build and configure a network, assemble and troubleshoot a PC, install and configure any software, turn a manuscript into a proofread book illustrated with photographs and vector graphics (PDF ready to be industrially printed, hard cover and all), and many more things - but 3D and programming were NEVER fields I am willing or able to venture to. I can't do 3D and software development. Maybe it's psychological, maybe my lifelong problems with math beyond basic equations. By the way, I found your github empty...
It has been very hard for me to explain this to people. The OEM's have done a great job confusing people as to the role of a laptop versus a desktop.
Their roles are those in which people find them useful.
@@loganmedia1142 The point is the role companies advertise and the the role the product properly fulfills is not necessarily the same . Your "gaming laptop" will become a Word machine in short order if it has poor thermals and shit design that cripples the hardware.
Companies have to design and market their product around a given role which cant account for every possibility of consumer use. And the role they choose to advertise is the one that makes the most financially feasible
@NoBoilerplate could you share a bit more about your setup?
custom pc build: ryzen 9 with 64GB ram and 2TB m.2 ssd for less money than an entry-level macbook air m1.
Though if you're not comfortable building yourself, the mini pc in the first part of the video is INSANELY fast.
Considering I forced my friend to reinstall win so we could play games I don't think Linux is there yet for gaming but it depends on what games you play i guess.
Also last time I checked (2 years ago) even games with a native Linux version ran better on win, did that change ?
It's well worth mentioning Ventoy, a bootable USB program that then lets you choose from any number of Linux distros on the same stick. Much better than having to keep creating individual bootable images each time. Just throw another Linux ISO on the stick and test away.
Ventoy changed my life omg
or a dozen random isos you keep around. Also still functions as a general storage device funnily enough
Works for Windows too. Installer and pocket-version always with me.
I'll keep using win10 as long as possible. Every time I tried linux on desktop it feels like I just booted up into someones college project, stuff just doesn't work out of the box and requires tones of tweeking. You might not like Microsoft products but they generally work well enough.
basically you have to manufacture special tables or frames where you put your laptop on top with exposed metal bottom part that can transfer heat from the laptop
For my purposes I need medium hardware performance. I want this at home and on the go. I have a laptop which can do that. I'm using it with a monitor at home. If I buy a workstation + laptop for the same price it means I have medium performance at home and shit performance outside of the home. How is that an improvement?
I love how many of these conclusions I came to years ago. Technology Connections just has a funky workflow where it behooves him to make a laptop station and have one machine for everything he does. Meanwhile, I'll have my eight- main PC, business laptop and cheap laptop, android tablet, Steam Deck, chinese Android 4k handheld, and two android phones. Nine if you count the Quest 2.
Is there a reason you felt it necessary to point out that your handheld was 'chinese?'
@@TheRogueX Didn't feel like spelling out which one, no other reason
My breaking point was when I moved from Windows 10 to 11 and could no longer put my task bar on the top. For some reason. Nothing quite like an "upgrade" which does nothing but make my machine run slower and with fewer options.
You've missed the point. This is an advert for ubuntu!
I use a "gaming" laptop for development and CAD work. I was able to add storage and RAM cheaply, and now I can do the work anywhere, even though it is often docked. This is making me think I might want to buy a desktop.
Microsoft and Apple are the best advertisers for Linux.
Yet MS and Apple still sells. I guess they are not good at advertising Linux at all
@@sepg5084Sadly linux is the best anti-advertisement for linux so it cancels out
@@sepg5084 MS is telling people how to install Linux. Only real problem are companies like Adobe that don't port their Software (that many bound to for work) over to Linux so that they run natively. That is holding many back to Windows or MacOS.
I’m looking forward to remote options becoming more popular. Use a laptop as a mobile entry point into a bulky workstation.
Horrible, if you don't run it on your own (hardware). You're not only depend your desktop on a mega-company but also all your data and access to it (!). Yes, Microsoft can just vaporize all your data for minor violations against their "guide lines". And yes, there have been people visited by authorities because their wife synced her phone with pictures of their child to Azure.
We're actually already doing that with LLM's. Even if you can get your hands on the actual model, those things require some very beefy hardware. Plus, unlike that failed attempt at cloud gaming from a few years ago, AI is a workload that actually lends itself to being offloaded since you're fine with waiting a few seconds
@@kalebbruwer I don't think if the cloud gaming was a failure. I had geforce now and it was greate. would definitely use it again
The issue I have with that is so many travel locations have terrible connections, planes, cruise ships, public wifi, very low upload speeds especially can cause VPN issues.
how about mini pc? small, mobile, upgradable and powerful. A power plug is almost everywhere these days so battery is not a problem. Well actually I'm thinking about owning nothing and just borrow someone else's computer LOL
Replaced my desktop with a ryzen 7 5800h rtx 3080 laptop. Came with 16 gigs of ram and 1 tb ssd.
A week later came the replacement parts. 64 gb of ram and 2 faster 1tb nvme and 1 x 4tb ssd.
If i had ordered it like this from the factory... yeah they would have charged me an arm and a leg for it. Upgrading it yourself however can be pretty cheap.
I also used it as a desktop replacement, as mentioned, so the rest of the drives i connected via usb, works pretty good.
Excellent video
I switched to linux for the first time in 2020
Ive hardly switched back since. it was tough learning at first. but now im here, navigating my whole pc with just a keyboard on an overly riced wm setup, more efficient than ever
I came for the package manager, but stayed for the rice!
I started using Linux when I started University because I only had a very old laptop that took about 4 minutes to boot Windows 7. For a few years I used Linux Mint on it and that's where I learned to love Linux. About three years ago I installed Linux on my gaming desktop, too (now Fedora), and I never looked back.
(Thank you for your videos. I love them)
Wonderful!
I got a Mini-PC to replace my towers a few months ago and I couldn't be happier at the amazing performance and low cost!
very good points. as an owner of an expensive laptop, i think i agree from experience. if and when i ever get new computers, i’ll get a nice desktop and just connect to it remotely if i want to do heavy tasks on the go.
getting a laptop with a decent range of screen brightness will be one of my top priorities because i hate how the minimum brightness on my current laptop is still uncomfortable in even just a moderately dim room.
i think it would be quite interesting to heat a room using the “waste” hear from a pc.
Started the video as a thoughtful commentary about prices, ended up being a commercial for Linux
Linux is free though, so not really a commercial :D
@@G-ra-ha-m free stuff can have commercials as well.
@@WannaKnowMyName Adverts :D
Yes, to bad! Casually skipping all the con's...
Did you read the title? 🤔
I got a cool-looking convertible ultrabook in 2019. I really liked the idea of it, especially with the touchscreen and the stylus. And then 2020 hit, and I realised there was very little I did that actually required the portability - like you said, typing notes and things like that. I also started making videos...on the Intel integrated GPU.
A year ago, I got myself a desktop for the same price and put Pop OS on it. Now I do 90% of my computing on it.
Exactly my point whenever I talk about this "technological improvements! Sure, I am struggling to find a bag big enough to carry a cheap laptop, a small screen feature phone, a calculator, my paper calendar and notes, a small DSLR camera, an mp3 player, a voice recorded, a camcoder, about 3-4 board and card games.
The cooling issue in laptops can be at least partially be resolved by using AirJet (solid state cooling). Hopefully AirrJet gets more widely used in the near future. Also, within a couple years I would expect integrated GPUs to become significantly more powerful which will also help the utility of laptops.
Having used all 3 (Linux, macOS & Windows), macOS is the most stable and easiest to use. Linux maybe easy-ish to install, but it gets complicated really fast (I work with DBs and Lab frontends on Ubuntu). I found it buggy using the GUI side of things. Copy-paste is really spotty for different applications depending on your source and target applications. Polish is often lacking for GUI applications, so it’s great for CLI fans, but many things just require a GUI. BTW, Apple hasn’t charged for updates of macOS for approaching two decades.
My two problems with MacOS:
1. The insistence on not using the same standard for keyboard shortcuts as Linux and Windows. Mac-key + s rather than Ctrl + s breaks my muscle memory.
2. You have to buy and use Apple hardware in order to use it.
@@c99kfm The shortcuts I get. It also bothers me when I switch between mac and windows, but what's your problem with the hardware? Aside from the ridiculous premium they charge.
@@alextheshinymonkey First of all, check out Louis Rossmann's TH-cam channel, he'll tell you all about why Apple hardware is not something you want at all, regardless of premium costs.
Second, that ridiculous premium is a big factor.
Third, as is touched upon in this video, how you cannot upgrade your systems if your needs change or aren't met is a big turn-off.
Fourth, sometimes I just want hardware to fit a specific use-case not available through Apple. A form-factor, thermal envelope and/or gaming performance just not available in that combination from the Apple-store.
@@alextheshinymonkey Maybe the fact that their hardware is the most consumer unfriendly pile of garbage to ever exist? Try changing your SSD, RAM, CPU, GPU, Display or whatever else. And then they have the audacity to charge you such an enourmus premium for it.
@@lonelypotato3001 You can't upgrade any of the components, I get it. But they are good components. Their target audience isn't tinkerers who want to build their own PC. Most people just want to buy something that works and stick with it for as long as possible.
If you want to swap parts and mess around with your machine please don't buy apple, but aside from that I see no downside.
Interesting video! I think it should be noted that the RTX 4090 mobile is not a "worse slower version" of the desktop counterpart, though I wasn't sure if this was omitted from the script for time reason or otherwise, or if you didn't know about it. If you look at the specs of the RTX 4090 mobile, it uses a AD103 die (the desktop version is based off the 16384 cuda core AD102 die which is much bigger) with 9728 cuda cores, and has a 256 bit memory bus with 16 GB vram (instead of 384 bit with 24 GB vram on desktop). These specs match up perfectly with the desktop RTX 4080, so the RTX 4090 mobile is a misleading name, because it is actually a 4080. Also I saw Pianoteq, nice :)
Thabk you for telling me, yeah a few people have pointed that out - I wonder why they did that?
Pianoteq is life! Native Linux vsts always get my money omg
Honestly, the whole rtx 40 series is a complete joke with its names and prices
The RTX40 series is optimized for laptop applications because that's where the money is. You can game on an RTX4070 with zero throttling on most gaming laptops. They're pretty good. The 'joke' is when you compare against RTX30 series on desktop. Desktop gamers got shafted but mobile gamers got a huge upgrade. @@aylim3088
@aylim3088
Not sure what was the point of the RT 4030 card. Raytrace is meanless at that low of a spec, and it doesn't compute enough to make it a compelling value to similar tier 30 series
@@Demopans5990 A way to use bottom of the barrel silicon that's binned so poorley that it should have just been scrapped instead? "Just cut it down till it works, those suckers will buy anything!"
I have a Intel NUC 13 with i3 as my DEV PC running ArchLinux and I love it :D pulls 20W while programming and watching videos on the side, like I'm doing now.
Beefy desktop and 2nd hand thinkpad is winning combination if one doesnt need to move around often. When I was in uni laptop was pretty much only sensible option because I was constantly either traveling somewhere (often just home to my parents and back) or moving to work on holidays sometimes across the country. Nowadays I do pretty much 70% of my computing on laptops when even at work my workstation was replaced by laptop and doc. Other 30% is gaming on Steam Deck and DCS on desktop. About ergonomics I very much like to have trackpoint aveilable for certain tasks (very handy to be able to operate mouse while typing, can be done with trackpad too), so much even that I went and bought lenovo travel keyboard, that was modeled after classical thinkpads, for my desktop.
Reaper is probably the most customizable DAW out there, even if we don't take into account its integrated scripting capabilities (Lua or Python). Been using it for over 10 years, but still discovering a lot of new stuff regularly. Huge potential, especially in terms of production workflow automation
Same, I remind myself to poke around every now and then, and find entire new ways of using it each time!
Reaper is not Logic or ProTools. If you are working in a professional audio production environment, you need to use industry standard professional tools. Reaper ain't that.
Ardour is pretty nice, too. I came from Protools on macOS and don’t miss it.
@@gcvrsaThat depends on the type of production you're doing. I've been doing different types of music production, but not film scores or things like that. Over the last 20 years I've tried Reason, FL, Ableton Live, Reaper. Mostly been using Live (for live gigs) and Reaper (for mixing/mastering/radio production). When you're not doing many things video related, plus not receiving/sending projects for collaboration, it all comes down to the tools that make you most productive and efficient. Had a chance to work several times with Cubase (got an LE version long time ago with audio recorder), Logic and Pro Tools, but that's not my thing (either didn't like, or they didn't fit my workflow, style of thinking). At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the end result. I heard that there are some scripting capabilities in Logic too, but since I'm not using Macs anymore, didn't even bother to do a proper research on that. Anyway, just wanted to say that from all the DAWs I tried, Reaper turned out to be the most customizable + built-in scripting capabilities are amazing (from my perspective and personal flow). Tools are just tools :)
You're gonna convert me to everything you do, man, and I'm certain I will be grateful for it
I can only apologise for having very good ideas :-P
@@NoBoilerplate i would've done the switch a long time ago, if not for the fact desktop linux sucks massive ass.
like honestly, it's missing half the software i'd want or need, it's terribly optimized for battery life on laptops, every single distro i've tried feels opensource in the worst possible sense of the word, it has incredibly poor touchscreen support, and no, apt is not the ultimate way of installing software, since you still have to add custom repos to it, and good fucking luck finding anything. Installing drivers for bespoke hardware, that's not supported out of the box, sucks even more, than the rest of the experience, the way 'security' is set up is mind-bogglingly stupid for anybody sane, you're always one bug away from completely bricking your system, often the developers do it themselves with updates, and i could go on for hours.
Every single time i tried switching, i ended up burning myself on it and ended up going back to microsoft, sadly.
Also you've been using the wrong laptops, current gen AMD CPUs and Nvidia 40 series graphics are simply incredible in midrange gaming and workstation chassis. Take Lenovo Legion 5 Pro, MSI GP or even GT, select XMG stuff, or Asus ROG Strix Scar as an example. Yes, they still have around 200-230W of combined power limit on the motherboard, but the amount of computing power in there is probably equal, if not more, than an average Threadripper workstation from 3-4 years ago. Sure, bleeding edge desktop hardware is powerful, but whenever portability is of any concern, modern laptops are a miracle compared to what was before.
Of fucking course cramming an Intel i9 into an XPS will yield no results besides overheating. But it will look good on paper, so the stupid consumers will gobble it up. And my policy towards Macs is that they *always* have to be purchased used, if at all. Issue with them is that their own silicon performs roughly the same across both laptops and desktops, there's just no point of getting a Mac Mini over a Macbook Air, unless it's going to be constanly plugged in.
I didn't know about the fact that REAPER can edit video's too! But i've switched about two years ago, very abrubtly to linux, with the help of my CS teacher. No dual booting, no nonsense, just threw off Windows and changed to Manjaro Linux.
My main concerns were gaming and music production ( I used FL Studio before). While I've almost stopped gaming over the past years, it's now more available on Linux than ever.
And Reaper is just the best! After struggling about with FL Studio via wine, windows Virtual machines and more PITA's, I just switched to the free (kind of) Reaper and love it! It's very versatile and customizable. All Windows VST Plugins still work after installing Yabridge + wine. Great video.
Nice! Check out Surge XT and Bitwig too!
Interesting discussion, thank you.
Welcome!
As someone who only uses Linux in VMs and has "been meaning to switch" for decades, thanks for making this video. It's inching me just a bit more to making the jump.
I can recommend dual-boot with both Linux and Windows. That way, you can dip your toes into Linux without giving up a backup solution.
Lack of space is a real restriction for lots of folks
Something like a NUC might be an option. You could screw it to the VESA mount holes, but it takes up so little space anyway I have trouble finding whenever I move. (I also keep misplacing the external DVD drive because it looks just like a CD jewel case.) The inside of a NUC is mostly empty space, like the demonic button enclosure in Button, Button, so it cools well.
@@shaggygoat NUC's are slower and less efficient than laptops, but much cheaper to start with. I mean, sure you can get an external gpu, without losing that much money, but the bottleneck for the external gpu would be too much of a hassle unless you are willing to do it.
@@nushia7192 Hehe. Strapping a GPU to a NUC sounds as perverse as using OpenGL over Ethernet (as it was originally designed).
Nice video! Lots of truths, but I did miss the mention of Framework😊
AirJet’s solid state coolers seem to be a nice step towards solving the unsolvable problem of laptops
1:50 I have a web browser extension that replaces the phrase 'the cloud' with "someone else's computer". It helps me remember that we don't truly own the data we store on remote servers.
That's like saying you don't truly own the money you put in a bank account.
@@a0flj0 The same concept applies. Yes, the money is yours, but don't have the full control over it. The bank has insight into your transaction activity, and may even suspend your account for a variety of different reasons. It's the same deal with cloud machines. Google drive hashes through your data and can ban you or report you to the authorities if it finds out you pirated a movie.
@@a0flj0 Its not like that at all, because you actually don't own the cloud. You don't have any capital...
@@lucass8119 You don't own the hardware that makes up the cloud. The data you put on it still belongs to you. You don't have to own the vault at the bank you put your valuables in, the valuables still belong to you even if they're stored at the bank.
Currently in the process of migrating from my MacBook Air M2 to a FrameWork where I was able to bring my own ram/hard drive and save close to $1000CAD on my 64gb ram and 4tb hard drive. And being able to hot swap IO as needed is so amazing for traveling. Plus I get to use Arch btw and will be able to slowly upgrade my work laptop over time now too. Very happy with FrameWork thus far and the future looks bright.
Great video!
Altough I'd recommend Linux Mint for beginners (and everyone else) over Ubuntu.
or Manjaro
Or Pop!_OS
My biggest frustration with my Macbook for work is if I need to run a docker container I have to run a Linux VM to do it and this thing only has 16gb of RAM. So once you start doing that and running node.js and vscode and Google chrome and MS Teams and all this other stuff it hilariously runs way out of RAM.
I am a long time Linux user (Slackware and RedHat 5 era). The one thing that I never got the hang of is getting video configured correctly. There always seemed to be weird custom kernel options that worked in some distributions and not in others. These options constantly broke on OS upgrades, etc. Once Apple switched to OSX, it was close enough to Unix/Linux for me and I finally had consistent video performance with easy setup. I still use Linux on machines I only need to ssh to for development but OSX is good enough where I don’t want to go back to dark ages of video configuration on Linux.
That was the reason I stopped using Linux many years ago, unfortunately.
I agree with your statement.
sample size of one here, but I've never had to touch a kernel parameter or even xorg config to get video working on a standard ubuntu, debian, or even arch or manjaro install, and I've been using linux heavily since about ubuntu 11.04. You should give it another try, most things have gotten a lot better. You can still get yourself into situations where fiddling is needed but it's very unlikely unless you rock a heavily customized or entirely DIY'ed desktop environment, or try to change things under the hood without understanding how they interact with the default install.
Outside of building a custom OS image for work for an ancient embedded PC, I've never had to do anything too weird for graphics to work and distro upgrades have been pretty solid
The desktop/laptop price ratio is similar now as to what it was in 2007, when I first swapped to dev on a laptop. While I’ve been looking, they were always about double the price of a comparable desktop. It’s a similar order of magnitude difference today.
The move and push to “dumb terminal” style apps has swung back and forth as vendors try to convince everyone that latency either doesn’t exist or is the single most important factor in your work.
Fun stuff.
I dev on a desktop these days and have done for over a decade. Only using laptops in consulting/mobile jobs.
you say that linux distros work on every laptop? that's not what I got by reading the forums
I want to install linux on my next laptop but don't know which laptop to pick because when I search online I stumbled upon questions/complaints of people they're having problems running popular distros on asus, ideapads etc, the only laptops which people on forums were recommending to run linux on were thinkpads
Is there a GUI for apt? If I want to convince my non IT friends or whoever to use it, then there must be a more accessible way without getting into CLI or programming (despite me having that understanding). Guessing certain distros
Yes, there are tons of GUIs for apt (I hate all of them, Discovery comes to mind) that can make the job. You won't be able to do most advanced tricks with them though.
synaptic package manager is the default gui for apt on ubuntu and mint iirc
Both Gnome and Plasma have a "store" which lets you download flatpaks and packages from your distro's package manager.
Several, but they vary based on distro which is why I use the CLI. However Ubuntu and Mint both call them the software center. one is a legit app store and also works with apt so it does both.