Yes I would love to see a big air wing of at least 3 Avengers and 3 voss lightnings considering their points cost. Vultures might not be as competitive due to points and maybe some thunderbolts too??
I want to see an infantry and airpower skew list now mate. IG Regimental HQ over the box net vox: "WE'RE BEING OVERRUN. BROKEN ARROW! BROKEN ARROW!" *dakka dakka* "EMPEROR PRESURVE US, THEYRE COMING AGAIN!" *dakka dakka* Imperial Navy airfield: "ALL UNITS SCRAMBLE! SCRAMBLE! SCRAMBLE! Rally at point alpha to provide close air support."
Yeah the biggest thing holding this back is, as you said, the crap aircraft rules that mean you can't use them until turn 3 and a lot of battles are won or lost by turn 3, especially in tournament settings. So either you've stomped the enemy and don't need it or you're already losing and getting screened out. This has meant that ALL aircraft are basically in the 'do not take in tournament' list...which does inevitably filter down to the casual tabletop level, so you're seeing a complete lack of flyers in 10th which is what surprised me about the Young Warboss you mentioned in your titan tournie video having taken a Dakka Jet...because it's something you don't see on competitive tables. Though the fact that the flyer rules are so bad ALSO means there's a distinct lack of 'Anti-fly' vehicles being fielded...
I love how this thing has a melee weapon on it. I can just see this thing coming down from the sky just to ram some poor fella and then flying back up into the sky.
The most realistic close air support flying unit that a real Astra Militarum force would introduce would be a quadcopter. It would be usable every turn and could carry a wide variety of bombs and weapons. It would also have a transport variant. It would be a huge seller.
I can confirm, I LOVE how my Avenger has performed in the few games I've gotten in with it. You should definitely give it a try if you've got one lying around.
It's ability isn't likely to matter in 99% of games as it's too unlikely to happen. As for a hellhound, I personally don't even own one so I can't speak for how useful it would be. All I can say is that I wasn't disappointed with the Avenger's performance even without one. The big thing going for the Avenger is that it's relatively cheap and has volume of fire combined with a couple of good anti-tank shots. My personal opinion is that I wouldn't take anything else to support it unless it was already going to be in your list. @@javilo2797
That Fiery Vengeance rule is so damn narrow that it's baffling. How often is a Flyer going to destroy a unit within 6" of an aircraft? That might happen in one out of every ten games you play it in if you REALLY try to force it, and it relies on your opponent letting it happen.
Nah, the really restricting part of the rule is that it has to be an enemy unit with the FLY keyword. Against an army that has no fliers, this ability is useless. And it's extremely baffling considering this is very obviously a ground support aircraft (strike fighter). Just another sign that GW is out of touch with everything, reality or scifi. Edit: Oh, and it can only be triggered once a turn, no matter how many of them you have. Extra bad, especially considering things like Hellblasters don't have any restrictions on the number of times their special ability triggers. Reality is, guard has very weak special rules.
The reserves-issue can be gotten around by using Rapid Ingress, especially if you go second. You just drop it in on your opponents turn, and have it fully available on yours. The problem for the Avenger, and all Guard flyers, is its massive size. It's very difficult to keep it on the board for more than 2 consecutive turns. It's also surprisingly difficult to maneuvre, when it's not allowed to overhang enemy units and buidings. I tried it for a few gamea, but the size just restricts its use so much, regardless of how cheap it is.
I have one, still not built it. I checked it recently as the clear canopy resin browned. It used to have additional ordnance options: missiles and bombs
It's special rule does not reflect the role that its meant to be a ground attack craft. The thunderbolt already has a better ability for dealing with FLY units which makes sense, it's a heavy fighter. I'd have given it the tank buster rule; re roll to wound against targets with VEHICLE or MONSTER or some such.
So I played around in the app, and you can fit two Avengers, two Marauders, two Lightnings, and two Thunderbolts in a 2k list with enough points left over for a Lord Solar, a Cadian Command Squad, and two squads of Kasrkins. Just throwing it out there.
I don't think it would be a legal list, since all the aircraft would have to start in Reserves, and that would be well over 25% of your points. As far as I can tell, they don't have any kind of exception to that reserves limit.
It is strange that the aircraft rules are so restrictive when the aircraft are generally weak, overcosted and have the whole "fly off the board" problem.
I swear someone working on the forgeworld unit rules mixed up some of the datacards. Why on earth the space A10 has an anti air rule makes 0 sense to me
Great review as always, love them and keep them coming… But the generally awful aircraft rules (not really useful until turn 3, flying off the board, predictable flight paths and screened out positions) combined with the Avengers awful unit ability (only shooting back a fly unit if it destroyed a friendly is so niche) plus the required buffs to help reduce its limitations being harder to apply means this is a mediocre unit at best And I would definitely take a hellhound or a hydra over an Avenger (with the huge caveat that I’ve not taken an Avenger so really don’t know what I’m talking about 😂😂)
Reporting for Duty Sir o7 As a player who back in the 2000's bought and built an Elysian's Regiment , My dead rules Regiment Avenger Strike Fighter fits the fantasy / fetish quite nicely , Game play unless running an infantry horde it doesn't work , you will get screened out by experienced players if you try and spam with Valkyrie's and Vulture's Teamed up with a 2 separate Vulture & Avenger Strike Fighter team combos "almost" feels like "seal beating" VS some elite armies With the dice Gods giving you some favor , Most armies are not a problem and sweat meat .............but for the Forge World model prices ??? You need to have more money than brains or get gifted things like @Mordian Glory does ................ no here on that , 🤣😂🤣 I have used paper proxies I am looking for some 3D STL's But for the rule of cool and the look of worry on your opponent's face for the 1st time they face you ??? PRICELESS It is like having 3 Ace high full house at a poker game
How can we convince you to take an air wing to a tournament? The regiments want to see it!
I mean I took double vulture to an event a few months ago, check out the scion tournament report :)
@@MordianGloryWe need MORE, 3 bultures, 3 strike fighters, 3 lightnings!
Yes I would love to see a big air wing of at least 3 Avengers and 3 voss lightnings considering their points cost. Vultures might not be as competitive due to points and maybe some thunderbolts too??
Lord General Sir? New orders from Terra for you…
Yes we need a 3 wing of avenger strike fighters!
I want to see an infantry and airpower skew list now mate.
IG Regimental HQ over the box net vox: "WE'RE BEING OVERRUN. BROKEN ARROW! BROKEN ARROW!" *dakka dakka* "EMPEROR PRESURVE US, THEYRE COMING AGAIN!" *dakka dakka*
Imperial Navy airfield: "ALL UNITS SCRAMBLE! SCRAMBLE! SCRAMBLE! Rally at point alpha to provide close air support."
Yeah the biggest thing holding this back is, as you said, the crap aircraft rules that mean you can't use them until turn 3 and a lot of battles are won or lost by turn 3, especially in tournament settings. So either you've stomped the enemy and don't need it or you're already losing and getting screened out. This has meant that ALL aircraft are basically in the 'do not take in tournament' list...which does inevitably filter down to the casual tabletop level, so you're seeing a complete lack of flyers in 10th which is what surprised me about the Young Warboss you mentioned in your titan tournie video having taken a Dakka Jet...because it's something you don't see on competitive tables.
Though the fact that the flyer rules are so bad ALSO means there's a distinct lack of 'Anti-fly' vehicles being fielded...
Love these unit reviews!
Still looking forward to your sentinel army!
i will always pick on the guard chicken. but it does have its peek-a-boo potential
Air Cav with air support!
Elysians HOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
Holy shit man!! I just asked you to do a video in the striker like.. not even 24hrs ago lol
At this point I’m wondering if the robot that runs auspex has taken over mordian too
I love how this thing has a melee weapon on it. I can just see this thing coming down from the sky just to ram some poor fella and then flying back up into the sky.
The most realistic close air support flying unit that a real Astra Militarum force would introduce would be a quadcopter. It would be usable every turn and could carry a wide variety of bombs and weapons. It would also have a transport variant. It would be a huge seller.
Lol you mean the valkyrie and its variant? XD
You're right. It says it is a VTOL. Doesn't look much like one though.@@clarkwalter7170
AirPower!
I can confirm, I LOVE how my Avenger has performed in the few games I've gotten in with it. You should definitely give it a try if you've got one lying around.
What about in terms of its ability?
Can it work without the hellbound?
It's ability isn't likely to matter in 99% of games as it's too unlikely to happen. As for a hellhound, I personally don't even own one so I can't speak for how useful it would be. All I can say is that I wasn't disappointed with the Avenger's performance even without one. The big thing going for the Avenger is that it's relatively cheap and has volume of fire combined with a couple of good anti-tank shots. My personal opinion is that I wouldn't take anything else to support it unless it was already going to be in your list. @@javilo2797
That Fiery Vengeance rule is so damn narrow that it's baffling. How often is a Flyer going to destroy a unit within 6" of an aircraft? That might happen in one out of every ten games you play it in if you REALLY try to force it, and it relies on your opponent letting it happen.
Nah, the really restricting part of the rule is that it has to be an enemy unit with the FLY keyword. Against an army that has no fliers, this ability is useless. And it's extremely baffling considering this is very obviously a ground support aircraft (strike fighter). Just another sign that GW is out of touch with everything, reality or scifi.
Edit: Oh, and it can only be triggered once a turn, no matter how many of them you have. Extra bad, especially considering things like Hellblasters don't have any restrictions on the number of times their special ability triggers. Reality is, guard has very weak special rules.
And if you ever want to see it, you'll probably need to gotcha your opponent...
I think the idea was you have these flying sort of "in formation" so when one goes down the others obliterate the killer
The reserves-issue can be gotten around by using Rapid Ingress, especially if you go second. You just drop it in on your opponents turn, and have it fully available on yours.
The problem for the Avenger, and all Guard flyers, is its massive size. It's very difficult to keep it on the board for more than 2 consecutive turns. It's also surprisingly difficult to maneuvre, when it's not allowed to overhang enemy units and buidings. I tried it for a few gamea, but the size just restricts its use so much, regardless of how cheap it is.
I am taking 3x avengers and a thunderbolt to the Feb ITT in Coventry
My 20+ practice games have been VERY promising 👀
The ground forces are all built around stacking AP + accuracy buffs, for the mega synergy
how did it go
@@safkhalid1533 pretty great. 5-0
@@AA-pg7xe what was your strategy?
speaking of flyers! i absolutely love using the marauder bomber.
I remain completely unconvinced unconvinced until the aircraft can deliver glorious promethium to scour the xenon and heretic filth.
I have one, still not built it. I checked it recently as the clear canopy resin browned. It used to have additional ordnance options: missiles and bombs
It's special rule does not reflect the role that its meant to be a ground attack craft. The thunderbolt already has a better ability for dealing with FLY units which makes sense, it's a heavy fighter.
I'd have given it the tank buster rule; re roll to wound against targets with VEHICLE or MONSTER or some such.
ohhhhhhh that fiery vengeance could be spicy fighting necrons they have sooo any fly units
here i am comparing your old nid/mech guard battles from months ago and what do you release? the avenger strike fighter? lol
So I played around in the app, and you can fit two Avengers, two Marauders, two Lightnings, and two Thunderbolts in a 2k list with enough points left over for a Lord Solar, a Cadian Command Squad, and two squads of Kasrkins. Just throwing it out there.
I don't think it would be a legal list, since all the aircraft would have to start in Reserves, and that would be well over 25% of your points. As far as I can tell, they don't have any kind of exception to that reserves limit.
@@PF_K Oh hell, you're right. I've never really used aircraft so I totally forgot that they start in reserves.
12:38
It is strange that the aircraft rules are so restrictive when the aircraft are generally weak, overcosted and have the whole "fly off the board" problem.
what about the navy thunderbolt heavy fighter?
Hilariously good against jump pack marines.
I like the thunderbolt
The ability needs to be changed, so that any enemy unit that kills a unit near it,the avenger can shoot
So it doesn't get any bombs and missiles?
How do you guys view double avenger strike that leans on a single attaches?... this thing is way TOO good vs eldar
What I don't understand, is this: why would you shoot tanks with a bolt cannon when all imperial fliers come with frickin las cannons?
I hope someone brings 5k of aircraft next Thanatos.
Yooooo! It would be so crazy😂
0:14 I hope so
Was hoping it’d be a 5th edition Imperial Guard Unit review but here we are
I swear someone working on the forgeworld unit rules mixed up some of the datacards. Why on earth the space A10 has an anti air rule makes 0 sense to me
Forgeworld rules writing has always been atrocious.
Great review as always, love them and keep them coming…
But the generally awful aircraft rules (not really useful until turn 3, flying off the board, predictable flight paths and screened out positions) combined with the Avengers awful unit ability (only shooting back a fly unit if it destroyed a friendly is so niche) plus the required buffs to help reduce its limitations being harder to apply means this is a mediocre unit at best
And I would definitely take a hellhound or a hydra over an Avenger (with the huge caveat that I’ve not taken an Avenger so really don’t know what I’m talking about 😂😂)
For the love of the emperor, please start the operation broken arrow army list
Trojan has it rerolling on ones
looks like an average 12-15 dam even if it's probably gonna be on 4s. and that's from one gun. looks pretty okay
The movement around or up and over vice ignoring terrain for flyers is crap too.
Reporting for Duty Sir o7
As a player who back in the 2000's bought and built an Elysian's Regiment , My dead rules Regiment
Avenger Strike Fighter fits the fantasy / fetish quite nicely ,
Game play unless running an infantry horde it doesn't work , you will get screened out by experienced players if you try and spam with Valkyrie's and Vulture's
Teamed up with a 2 separate Vulture & Avenger Strike Fighter team combos "almost" feels like "seal beating" VS some elite armies
With the dice Gods giving you some favor , Most armies are not a problem and sweat meat
.............but for the Forge World model prices ???
You need to have more money than brains
or get gifted things like @Mordian Glory does ................
no here on that , 🤣😂🤣
I have used paper proxies
I am looking for some 3D STL's
But for the rule of cool and the look of worry on your opponent's face for the 1st time they face you ??? PRICELESS
It is like having 3 Ace high full house at a poker game
and ya wish it came with a 3+ bs...
O7
Obligatory Comment 🫡
Bit butt and i cannot lie lulz