I found your graph and legend at 8:17 very useful as I can see at a glance which cars have bottomed out just by the color coding. I’ve come to the same realizations through a lot of late night car browsing, GTR, R8, 987, Gallardo, 360 etc. but having it confirmed with your data is great.
Every gear head should be subscribed to this channel for real. I recommend adding more popular SUVs/Trucks to your analysis (like Jeeps) as that's a big market in the U.S. you're leaving out of your videos. Great work!
New to the channel and appreciated the systematic and data driven decision making! If only we could apply the same logic in so many other areas in life !
Very much in line with why I got a 2016 C7 vette with 15k miles...etc... It really is at a sweet spot for time to buy. And I got the warranty too. Well done sir! Enjoy your videos. They help!
There are way too many haters that don’t understand the metadata and assumptions. If you don’t want the info, don’t watch the video. Thanks for your education and work. I wonder, does the relative depreciation change significantly after the first year’s depreciation is taken into account?
What do you think about buying a Ferrari F430 60 Aniversary Edition (the Scuderia Red Schumacher edition) 2007 year? It is a very reliable, relatively fair maintenance (being a Ferrari) and having very good performance (even today). I think it still looks modern, with classic Ferrari details (shark nose, 250 LM air intakes, 4 tail lights, difusers with 4 exhausts, super sound, etc..) As investment and to use moderately. What is your opinion?
Why was the 981 GT4 not included? Also what was car was the blue dot at the very top of the graph with the lowest depreciation? It's in the 8-9 year old bracket.
Again very interesting! Thanks! In my country (Germany) no car is sold for the window sticker price. E.g. a BMW i8 is sold as a new ar with a reduction of about 30 - 40%. It would be interesting to take this into acount. The average depreciation would be completely different.
Unfortunately, the actual selling prices aren't available. Using those would indeed affect the absolute depreciation amount but not the relative one as the market would simply move down along the price axis.
This is one reason why this analysis is junk: garbage in - garbage out. Without actual selling prices, it’s worthless. Options make a huge difference to the final price, especially with high end cars. A 720S can cost $300K or $500K. That makes a massive difference to % depreciation, especially since you don’t compare the cars with the same options.
So which cars a good buy and which bad buys? We need names please. I thought you would put the list up in the end of the video or at some point in the video.
All depends on a person's budget and preferences. Hence, i show the full leaderboard so you can see where the cars one is interested in rank (if they are om there).
I love your videos, but there are some, like this one, that I'd like to see more of the details in the data. Do you have the actual data available for download? Spreadsheet(s) perhaps? Thanks.
I'm looking at picking up a 2015-2017 x5m. Should I try to get as new of an example as possible? Or get an older example which might be slightly more immune to depreciation?
Porsche CPO can go 9 model years back. 2 year bumper-to-bumper is pretty good for a car that old. Of course, you will have to pay the franchise dealer premium to get it.
Can you please do the Mercedes GLS 63 AMG I want a 20/21 model so bad but they are about $140k and 3 year old models seem to have lost $50k depreciation 😱 I don’t want that to happen to me. Thank you 🙏🏼
I appreciate the video analysis but you are absolutely wrong about 718 Cayman GTS 2.5T 4 cylinders being lacking emotions. The 718 GTS 4 cylinders turbo are more quicker on low revs and gives beautiful exhaust note with pops and crackles. The 4.0 liter NA 6 cylinders will not give you those same emotions. And now that 2.5 liter 4 cylinders has been discontinued in the cayman GTS, the values of 2018 cayman gts will stay stable.
A car that in 4 / 5 years depreciates €1250.- / €1500.- per month is acceptable. If you don't accept this then you should drive smaller cars and not complain about depreciation.
Moral of the video.......do not buy a new McLaren 720!!!!! Almost half price in 2 years?!!!!! My money is on a used Ferrari or Porsche GT car. Would like to see depreciation on C6 Z06.
Ferrari and Porsche GT cars indeed do very well usually. There is an older video of the Z06 on my channel. Also they don't do too bad: th-cam.com/video/e538zlio2RA/w-d-xo.html
@@fourwheeltrader I didn't realise there was a tax on used cars. For me it would be the UK or even a comparison of UK and German car prices. There could also be some great interest to see if there has been a short term drop in certain car prices due to the economic effects of the pandemic. But this analysis is better left until stimulus packages are finished. You might see investors selling classic cars...at discounted prices.
I would love to see your analysis of the BMW E46 M3, 2001-2006, considered by many (but certainly not all) to be the best M3 ever, and in at an interesting age and demand level where values appear to be on the increase. Also of note, I suspect that analyzing a few specific colors for this car will show some interesting and widely different values. Check Laguna Seca Blue and Interlagos Blue compared to the forgettable grays and slivers and the polarizing Phoenix Yellow.
Thanks for the suggestion. Colours indeed make a large difference in some markets. They are however difficult to analyse since the market segments are really small. This makes it hard to 'statistically' say that a car has a premium due to the colour and not due to something else.
You included the Ferrari California but ignored it's direct target - the SL65 by AMG. There both super premium exclusive hardtop convertibles available in roadster configuration at near the same cost and performance. I say that because the 8-10 year depreciation was dramatic yet abruptly slowed. The AMG may lack the status of the Ferrari but it's support infrastructure is much more established for maintenance than Ferrari's. Pragmatism vs. Panache.
Where do you get your car value data? I hope these are transaction prices, not asking prices?? I notice you don’t mention the source of the car values. GARBAGE IN = GARBAGE OUT = THIS VIDEO!
These numbers are based on advertised prices. It would be better to have the actual selling prices but those are unfortunately not available. The advertised prices however serve as a good proxy for these kind of analysis. Hence, the analysis is not rubbish. If you incorporate the actual selling prices all the prices are adjusted downward (though not all to the same extent). Therefore, you shift the market down on the price axis. A consequence of this is that the absolute numbers change, but not the relative one.
@@fourwheeltrader No, that is not true. You are assuming the same % decrease between asking and selling prices, which is not true. Furthermore, your data is highly sensitive to price decreases, since you are measuring depreciation after all. So a 5% discount from asking to selling makes a big difference from a 0% or 20% discount! It will throw off all of your assumptions!!! Additionally, the MSRP total price is highly dependent on options. You can spec a Cayman at $70K or $140K. Obviously, that makes a big difference to your conclusions. e.g., if the $70K Cayman resells for $50K or is it the $140K Cayman that resells for $50K? You do have access to final selling prices. You should have to do a lot of work to find them. Auction sites show the final price, for example.
*Which car would you like to see analysed next?*
I'm not sure but I didn't find an SLS analysis yet！ Maybe an SLS AMG？
Porsche 991.2 turbo and turbo S please. Wonderful analysis, as always. Thank you.
This is going to a slight departure from what you normally talk about, what how about a FORD F150 RAPTOR depreciation review? 2010-2020
Audi TT RS, but if your main source data is from US market, i’m not sure how many TT RS have been imported to allow a depreciation analysis.
@@vogray Those are covered in this video th-cam.com/video/A4fLDMGdFf0/w-d-xo.html . Check it out.
I found your graph and legend at 8:17 very useful as I can see at a glance which cars have bottomed out just by the color coding. I’ve come to the same realizations through a lot of late night car browsing, GTR, R8, 987, Gallardo, 360 etc. but having it confirmed with your data is great.
I would love to see a video about the Lexus LFA, but one about the ISF or GSF would be great too!
Every gear head should be subscribed to this channel for real. I recommend adding more popular SUVs/Trucks to your analysis (like Jeeps) as that's a big market in the U.S. you're leaving out of your videos. Great work!
Thanks for the suggestion.
keep pushing mate, your content its exclusive! i would to see analysis of aventador and aventador sv!
New to the channel and appreciated the systematic and data driven decision making! If only we could apply the same logic in so many other areas in life !
Very much in line with why I got a 2016 C7 vette with 15k miles...etc... It really is at a sweet spot for time to buy. And I got the warranty too. Well done sir! Enjoy your videos. They help!
There are way too many haters that don’t understand the metadata and assumptions. If you don’t want the info, don’t watch the video. Thanks for your education and work. I wonder, does the relative depreciation change significantly after the first year’s depreciation is taken into account?
For most cars the relative rate is quite stable.
You are the first Channel I've ever bothered to subscribe to. Awesome information and I hope your channel takes off soon.
Thanks!
@@fourwheeltrader You should dig into the 2013-2017 Vipers. They seem to be holding steady already but it's tough to tell with different models
This analysis is fabulous, and presented and explained so clearly! I'm hooked.
Another great video. I really appreciate the amount of time you invest (and at the same time always wonder and admire how you manage to do it).
Thanks. I wonder the same sometimes :)
Great Idea to analyze the car market like a scientist!
Ferrari California T. Love your channel!! Thanks for the weekly education.
Check out this video: th-cam.com/video/xmz4PB2qYoI/w-d-xo.html
Your videos are amazing mate👍great info for.choosing my sports car. GT3 it is lol
Great job! I love your channel! 👍
Hmm, I just bought a 991.1 GT3 in March. I guess I do know something after all! :)
Great material !!! Love your TH-cam channel. Do you have a research video for Porsche Gt3 touring ?
My GT3 special includes a section on the touring:
th-cam.com/video/ueqpaoCQzQo/w-d-xo.html
Please do an analysis on the f12 and 812
What do you think about buying a Ferrari F430 60 Aniversary Edition (the Scuderia Red Schumacher edition) 2007 year? It is a very reliable, relatively fair maintenance (being a Ferrari) and having very good performance (even today). I think it still looks modern, with classic Ferrari details (shark nose, 250 LM air intakes, 4 tail lights, difusers with 4 exhausts, super sound, etc..) As investment and to use moderately. What is your opinion?
@fourwheel trader,
What about the Aston Martin Vantage?
In the graph you show DB11 AMR and V8 and then All
I have seperate analyses for the previous gen V8 vantage on my channel. The V12 i didn't cover yet.
Why was the 981 GT4 not included? Also what was car was the blue dot at the very top of the graph with the lowest depreciation? It's in the 8-9 year old bracket.
Dodge viper analysis?
Can you do an analysis of the Bentley Bentayga with the Breitling Tourbillon clock option
Could you do one on the gt2rs? Looking possibly buy one 😬
Avoid: 720S Spider
Buy instead: Miata
😁
Coming up in a few weeks
@@fourwheeltrader Amazing!!!!
That's what I did 22 years ago. Still driving it. Still smiling. I think I got my monies worth.
It is always the answer
Again very interesting! Thanks! In my country (Germany) no car is sold for the window sticker price. E.g. a BMW i8 is sold as a new ar with a reduction of about 30 - 40%. It would be interesting to take this into acount. The average depreciation would be completely different.
Unfortunately, the actual selling prices aren't available. Using those would indeed affect the absolute depreciation amount but not the relative one as the market would simply move down along the price axis.
This is one reason why this analysis is junk: garbage in - garbage out. Without actual selling prices, it’s worthless. Options make a huge difference to the final price, especially with high end cars. A 720S can cost $300K or $500K. That makes a massive difference to % depreciation, especially since you don’t compare the cars with the same options.
Is there a reason why the SLS AMG is not included? Whereas all the amg GT are analyzed???
I was about to ask the same exact thing hahaha
I didn't do yet an in-depth analyses for the SLS AMG so it is not included. Having said that, it sounds like a good idea for a video :)
I was looking at your videos and could not find any videos on the 997 GT2..
Love the informative content and cool accent!
Best video. Would love an update
So which cars a good buy and which bad buys? We need names please. I thought you would put the list up in the end of the video or at some point in the video.
All depends on a person's budget and preferences. Hence, i show the full leaderboard so you can see where the cars one is interested in rank (if they are om there).
I love your videos, but there are some, like this one, that I'd like to see more of the details in the data. Do you have the actual data available for download? Spreadsheet(s) perhaps? Thanks.
I'm working on a way to make it available
Thank you!
Can you do a video on new cars that don't depreciate
Do you have more detailed info on the 911 - 991.2 GTS? Thanks!
Here you go th-cam.com/video/t-0Tc_YqGXw/w-d-xo.html
Hi ,I have a 991.1 NA GTS Carrera and wondering where these cars sit on your graph?
Thanks GLendeck
There is an analysis of the gts market coming up in a few weeks. That should give you a pretty good idea.
I'm looking at picking up a 2015-2017 x5m. Should I try to get as new of an example as possible? Or get an older example which might be slightly more immune to depreciation?
If there are no facelifts between 2015 and 2017, an older car is usually better when you look at the depreciation.
Great video. Can you do one on the appreciating sports car market including japanese cars in the USA?
Something like this is coming up in a few weeks.
@@fourwheeltrader I have an '87 FC RX7 Turbo. Would love to see something on that.
@@fourwheeltrader Thank you - love the channel keep up the great work!
Gen V Viper please. Appreciating market. Standard and ACR variant.
Up.... all the way up!!!
As you say, the depreciation is not linear. Have you ever tried to chart/analyze it on a log scale?
A comparison of how Audi RS models compare in depreciation. Do some depreciate worse than others?
992 targa 4s please
Porsche CPO can go 9 model years back. 2 year bumper-to-bumper is pretty good for a car that old. Of course, you will have to pay the franchise dealer premium to get it.
Love your stuff, but five mid-rolls is a bit excessive for a 13-minute video.
mid-rolls?
Can you please do the Mercedes GLS 63 AMG
I want a 20/21 model so bad but they are about $140k and 3 year old models seem to have lost $50k depreciation 😱 I don’t want that to happen to me. Thank you 🙏🏼
Mustang 5.0 vs. GT350 vs. GT350R - manual only (for the 5.0) of course please.........or the 3 different Miata versions being sold yearly.
Thanks for the suggestion. Did you see the Miata video already? th-cam.com/video/ivU4D3oKzEA/w-d-xo.html
How about the Mercedes S class?
How about Dodge Challenger
Good suggestion.
Aventador please!
Dodge Viper by generation!
I appreciate the video analysis but you are absolutely wrong about 718 Cayman GTS 2.5T 4 cylinders being lacking emotions. The 718 GTS 4 cylinders turbo are more quicker on low revs and gives beautiful exhaust note with pops and crackles. The 4.0 liter NA 6 cylinders will not give you those same emotions. And now that 2.5 liter 4 cylinders has been discontinued in the cayman GTS, the values of 2018 cayman gts will stay stable.
Here is the market update: th-cam.com/video/8QDFPew_Xms/w-d-xo.html
I’m in the market for a 18 Turbo S
There is a video of the 991 Turbo on my channel. Check it out.
Will do . Btw you do a great job keep it up 👍
A car that in 4 / 5 years depreciates €1250.-
/ €1500.- per month is acceptable.
If you don't accept this then you should drive smaller cars and not complain about depreciation.
Moral of the video.......do not buy a new McLaren 720!!!!! Almost half price in 2 years?!!!!!
My money is on a used Ferrari or Porsche GT car.
Would like to see depreciation on C6 Z06.
Ferrari and Porsche GT cars indeed do very well usually. There is an older video of the Z06 on my channel. Also they don't do too bad: th-cam.com/video/e538zlio2RA/w-d-xo.html
Depends if you can get a GFV you are happy with , then all this analysis is irrelevant tbh 👍
We need this for the EU market not the US!
It's difficult to do it for the EU due to the taxation differences. For one country is no problem though.
@@fourwheeltrader I didn't realise there was a tax on used cars. For me it would be the UK or even a comparison of UK and German car prices. There could also be some great interest to see if there has been a short term drop in certain car prices due to the economic effects of the pandemic. But this analysis is better left until stimulus packages are finished. You might see investors selling classic cars...at discounted prices.
I would love to see your analysis of the BMW E46 M3, 2001-2006, considered by many (but certainly not all) to be the best M3 ever, and in at an interesting age and demand level where values appear to be on the increase. Also of note, I suspect that analyzing a few specific colors for this car will show some interesting and widely different values. Check Laguna Seca Blue and Interlagos Blue compared to the forgettable grays and slivers and the polarizing Phoenix Yellow.
Thanks for the suggestion. Colours indeed make a large difference in some markets. They are however difficult to analyse since the market segments are really small. This makes it hard to 'statistically' say that a car has a premium due to the colour and not due to something else.
You included the Ferrari California but ignored it's direct target - the SL65 by AMG. There both super premium exclusive hardtop convertibles available in roadster configuration at near the same cost and performance. I say that because the 8-10 year depreciation was dramatic yet abruptly slowed. The AMG may lack the status of the Ferrari but it's support infrastructure is much more established for maintenance than Ferrari's. Pragmatism vs. Panache.
C6 corvette do that
Where do you get your car value data? I hope these are transaction prices, not asking prices?? I notice you don’t mention the source of the car values.
GARBAGE IN = GARBAGE OUT = THIS VIDEO!
Maybe check your own source before making such a statement.
Fourwheel Trader - Car depreciation analysis huh? You didn’t address my point: Without knowing the sale price, all of this analysis is Rubbish.
These numbers are based on advertised prices. It would be better to have the actual selling prices but those are unfortunately not available. The advertised prices however serve as a good proxy for these kind of analysis. Hence, the analysis is not rubbish. If you incorporate the actual selling prices all the prices are adjusted downward (though not all to the same extent). Therefore, you shift the market down on the price axis. A consequence of this is that the absolute numbers change, but not the relative one.
@@fourwheeltrader No, that is not true. You are assuming the same % decrease between asking and selling prices, which is not true. Furthermore, your data is highly sensitive to price decreases, since you are measuring depreciation after all. So a 5% discount from asking to selling makes a big difference from a 0% or 20% discount! It will throw off all of your assumptions!!!
Additionally, the MSRP total price is highly dependent on options. You can spec a Cayman at $70K or $140K. Obviously, that makes a big difference to your conclusions. e.g., if the $70K Cayman resells for $50K or is it the $140K Cayman that resells for $50K?
You do have access to final selling prices. You should have to do a lot of work to find them. Auction sites show the final price, for example.
Porsche 997.1 Carrera 4 Cabriolet
I believe that is included over here: th-cam.com/video/96qrLsNarSY/w-d-xo.html
Ferrari 488 pista
Bentley GT
Good suggestion
I keep a car to the very end and buy a car that is reliable. That keeps costs to a MINIMUM. So who cares about depreciation.
no need to sub its just US market prices