I think Suki triangulated Lorelai because SHE did not want to have that many kids and did not feel empowered to tell him directly. And that could be a direct result of Jackson having big emotions and escalating into drama. If you don't ever feel safe to disagree directly with your partner, and instead feel the urge to triangulate friends, that could be a warning sign about a power imbalance in the relationship.
This is a good point. I think you articulated the same thing that I feel about this dynamic but wasn't sure how to word. We all want honesty from our partners, but if we don't create a safe place for them to be honest without, for example, shouting at their friends in public when they tried to assert themselves... then we haven't really earned that honesty. People avoid telling the truth and facing potential conflict when they don't feel safe. And yes, that can be trauma from past experiences that have nothing to do with the relationship, but in this instance I think we see some very real signs of control from Jackson. And on this topic, Jackson should be actively and carefully making sure Sookie is comfortable, because it's her body, her risk, her life on hold... The very fact that he's so pushy to begin with on the topic of how much she is expected to be pregnant makes me very uncomfortable.
Exactly. She knew he wouldn't like it, he'd have a temper tantrum, so she set up a straw man for him to target. Also when he made the public statement, everyone knows she doesn't want to have kids that way, so now if she does, they'll know he made her against her will. She's smarter than she gives off.
*I disagree with Jono on this one.* When Sookie first came to Lorelai on this, Lorelai made a joke (per usual) because Sookie was freaked out at the idea of 4 in 4, then asked, “well do you want 4 in 4?” And Sookie shoots back, “I thought 1, maybe 2 if the first one is really quiet” (yes I am going off this strictly by memory). So Sookie obviously does not want 4 in 4, but as Sookie also says, “we’re newlyweds…we have never had a real fight.” And Lorelai often brings Sookie back to reality when she is in her head. That’s what female best friends do, even in their 30’s. I know @ 33, mine still does. Lorelai is Sookie’s safe space *always*. Jackson is clearly not there yet. They were not together all that long before getting married. So, to tell your wife she can’t go to her safe space is more than unfair. I understand that marriages have boundaries, as well as it may hurt Jackson a bit that his wife trusts Lorelai more than him to talk through this matter but that is NOT ON LORELAI. Also, there is a *huge* difference between Lorelai prying and Sookie looking for advice from the person she trusts the most, when she is scared to upset her new husband.
The thing is Lorelai was put in the middle by Suki. Suki came to her panic and Lorelai was having her back with commenting that’s crazy, but then told her to talk to Jackson about it. Like Suki implied she’s not good with conflict so when trying to talk to Jackson instead of just saying I’m not comfortable with that amount of kids she said Lorelai agrees, but Jackson took it as Lorelai talked her out of what he wanted. It’s fine to have boundaries in your relationship but stop blaming the friend for your bad communication.
I agree with what you say about Sookie being too reliant on Lorelai, but on this specific topic, Lorelai is the only person in this situation who has been pregnant before. She's the only one who is fully able to process what four in four really entails, so if Sookie's going to confide in anyone, someone who's already a mother probably has a measured take on the situation. And Sookie is the one who would be spending 75% of the next four years pregnant (and, after the first one, with extremely young kids to take care of at the same time), so I feel like Jackson should have introduced the topic for discussion, not just said, "here's what we're doing." But also, Jackson making that decision before even having one kid kind of...lacks foresight? I had cousins who wanted three in three and then hit pause after the second one because having two kids in two years ended up overwhelming them, especially when their oldest turned out to be special needs. They also started with a "no screens before the age of five" rule that went out the window when their daughter started walking because it was a way to make her sit still.
It's been a while since I watched, but doesn't what Lorelai tell Sookie boil down to "I think 4 in 4 is a lot, but YOU need to discuss this with Jackson"? In which case...how is that wrong/involving herself too much? Isn't the issue that Sookie relays Lorelai's words wrong, and that Jackson flies off the handle? In another episode (the one with the giant pizza for Lorelai's birthday), he pulls the same move on Rory too, who's still a minor at that point if I'm not wrong, cornering her in the street and yelling at her...😅 mans got issues for sure
Yeah, that's the thing. You're completely right. The first thing Lorelai does is ask Sookie if SHE is okay with four kids in four years, and Sookie says no. And, yeah, Lorelai tells Sookie that it's a conversation that *she* should have with Jackson. I'm mostly fine with Jackson. Yeah I think he acts irrationally sometimes but I think he's a good fit for Sookie.
I think it is a red flag that he yells at Lorelai instead of having a conversation with Sookie about what to share and what not to share. He clearly did not ask Sookie beforehand, if she was comfortable with him telling Lorelai off. It is inappropriate. Also, Sookie has to make an important decision on her own body and is allowed to ask someone close to her, who went through pregnancy and birth herself, what she thinks. He does not get to yell just because he does not like the answer.
I think Jack had a right to feel exposed and/or betrayed in his confidences, if he had been operating under the assumption that "children" was a "just for us" topic of discussion. However, he had no right to yell at her or her friend group in public. It is understandable why he did, but not excusable. She wasn't aware that she was violating a boundary of his, after all. And, as the woman who would have been carrying the children to term (with all the health risks involved), she was within her rights to seek the opinions of those whose opinions she trusts. Much of this drama could have been avoided if they had discussed this boundary beforehand... but then we wouldn't have this episode, lol 😅
@@AnotherNerdyPerson I don't even know if he could call that a boundary. I thought boundaries are for you not for somebody else. Just because he has a boundary where he only talks about certain things with his spouse doesn't mean his spouse has to agree with that boundary or set it for themselves and he's just gonna have to deal with that. Suki felt more comfortable talking to Lorelei than she did with Jackson. If Jackson has even a Popsicles chance in hell of getting her to agree to sharing the boundary he's gonna have to stop showing that he's willing to loose his cool in a public fashion. Remember this is not his oy offense. Later he goes off on Rory out in the square because Sookie was upset about not getting to do the giant pizza. He also had a hissy fit when Sookie went to get her own strawberries because he refused to sell her his and was trying to force her to take something else instead of giving her what she needed and had specifically asked for, it's not even good professionally speaking let alone boding well for a relationship. He also later confides in Lorelei when he's also afraid to tell Sookie their own bit of news.
I think Jackson handled it perfectly in a TV show where he's playing for laughs. In reality no he should have calmed down and had a private conversation with Suki.
Sookie was having difficulty having that conversation with Jackson. If anything Jackson should have apologized and assured Sookie that he is a safe person to come to and confide in. Sookie was imagining a totally different scenario and that's exactly what she told Lorelei. She said "I was thinking one...or two if the first one is really quiet" That is the complete opposite of 4 babies in 4 years. All Jackson did in that moment was reinforce WHY Sookie should go to Lorelei first. Maybe I missed it but Lorelei had an opinion (and sorry not sorry she is entitled to FOR HER) but she also told Sookie that she needs to be able to have the conversation with Jackson and be open and honest about what SHE wanted. Lorelei did not tell her to parrot what she said. She told her to be honest and even said "It's not much of a marriage if you can't talk about the big things".
4 in 4 is a LOT of wear and tear on Suki’s body, I’m sure people do it but oof… it’s a lot to ask. I think if I was Suki I’d be like hey… let’s start trying. We’ll have a baby and see how my body recovers. We’ll start for number two when I’ve recovered which could be a couple months but it could be a couple years. I don’t know because I’ve never had a baby. I’m not saying we can’t have 4 children but we need to do it at the rate which allows my body to be healthy so I have the energy to help you enjoy raising them.
This! It seems kind of naive to me to be so set on a certain number and timeframe before you even started trying, let alone have the experience of one pregnancy and having a kid, especially for a man. After all, he seems to not have the faintest idea, how draining pregnancies can be.
I think the bigger issue is that Jackson is attacking Sookie's support system that she clearly needs to process their relationship. Sookie doesn't feel comfortable or respected enough to tell Jackson that she's not okay with this many kids this quickly and it's not on him to decide what her body is to do in what timeframe and how quickly she recovers after a pregnancy. And Sookie rightfully was worried because Jackson put so much pressure on her that 1) she felt she needed Lorelei as backup bc her wishes alone weren't respected enough by Jackson and 2) she felt unable to communicate well/properly and got nervous. Jackson gets enraged even more and publicly berates her support system. Jackson comes off as massively controlling, aggressive and volatile and Sookie feels like she's responsible for his emotions and to please him. My partner doesn't get to dictate what I feel like I need to talk to my friends about to help process things or work through them.
Having a baby carries with it physical trauma and the potential for death, and Jackson basically went into 'Your body, my choice' mode. Suki was well within her rights to discuss this with her best friend Lorelai, who actually has a uterus, unlike Jackson, and who's experienced childbirth. Jackson demanding 4 children in 4 years is outrageous, especially since women often breastfeed for more than a year. The World Health Organization when I had my child recommended at least 2 years or more. My daughter stopped nursing between 3 and 4 years old. Having as many kids as Jackson wants in a short time could mean that Suki was still nursing children while new babies where coming. That short changes the children and it's not fair to her. It is toxic and arrogant for Jackson to even for part of the episode to think he has the right to demand that. As for Luke and Lorelai at the end, it's still pretty clear Luke doesn't like kids, but Lorelai does, and in the same episode, the Rory and Dean breakup over Jess happens, which Luke encouraged the relationship between Rory and Jess while Rory was in a committed relationship with someone else, which shows Luke has questionable character, especially since he knew Lorelai didn't want Rory and Jess together.... but what do I expect from the Luke who during Jess's first episode went into toxic mode when Lorelai expressed valid concerns about Jess. Luke attacked Lorelai for getting pregnant as a teenager. Luke is not good boyfriend, husband, or father material, but Gilmore Girls fandom often ignores Luke's bad behavior, while taking issue with other male characters like Jackson, Chris, etc. I originally shipped Luke and Lorelai, but it got to toxic for me.
I just dont understand why married coupleals don't discuss having children BEFORE they get married. This also applies to another couple when they get married in season 7. Of course I know that surprises happen and sometimes people change their minds, but I'm talking specifically about people who get married and then bring up the topic for the first time.
Yeah, "Let's meld our finances and make breaking up a horrible ordeal before discussing the most basic life plans" seems like a very dumb strategy. As if marriage were just a romantic milestone, instead of a legal act with immense consequences.
Is the friend trustworthy and will keep the information to themselves? Or are they a gossip? That would be important to me on either side of the relationship (for the couple). Lorelai is a mother already, so she can have an informed opinion if 4 kids in 4 years is reasonable. One could also argue that a conversation between friends should stay private. L. is in no way hostile towards Jackson during his outburst. Friends can have opinions, but the couple makes the decisions. She respects that and seems a very good friend to me.
I think regardless of the context of the situation, you always should have a right to talk to your best friend. Now where sookie goes wrong is instead of using lorelai as a sounding board to figure out what she wants, she decides to completely take lorelais opinion as her own. Also don't love how instead of lorelai listening first to sookie first and helping her to make a informed decision, she jumps straight into "4 in for is crazy"
I think it is okay for a couple to decide to keep topics for themselves, even regarding very close friends, but that his has to be explicitly agreed upon by both beforehand. And, if one partner violates that agreement, they have to talk about the violation with each other, not the third party. Also, he should have asked Sookie if she is comfortable with him confronting Lorelai about this issue, as this is another violation of a boundary.
PLEASE TALK ABOUT THE VASECTOMY LIE NEXT!!!!! I think it’s so important for people to understand that was grape. Suki consented to having unprotected sex with a man with a vasectomy. Theres so much psychologicaly wrong with that entire scenario. Suki forcing it on him, him lying, the potential trauma that should have caused, etc. thank you!
i really NEED you to get to the 4 episode special they made on Netflix like 10/15 years after the original series ended... i firmly believe they changed the core values and personality of some of the characters and they do and say thing they would never actually do or say and i really want to listen to a profesional's opinion about that entire thing
I think men often misunderstand that women talk about everything with their best friends. Everything. My best friend and I have been talking about boys, marriage, kids since we were 13. We've spent many late night conversations talking about conversations with spouses that irked us or left us wondering if we did the wrong thing and how we can fix it. It's about Trust and respect. Sookie and Lorelai adore each other and love each other like siblings. Sookie wasn't trying to put Lorelai in a bad spot and she wasn't trying to upset Jackson. She was trying to work out the pros and cons of more or less kids than what Jackson wanted because she had not decided what was right for her yet. She wants to make Jackson happy but she's also not the best at saying no to things she's not comfortable with. They got to the right spot in the end with both communicating what they wanted and coming to a compromise that made them feel good and safe with each other. I do think Jackson overreacted to Sookie's conversation with Lorelai but I understand why he did. I think it's absolutely appropriate for a best friend to have an opinion when asked. It's just advice and doesn't mean that's the only choice to make. The only problem I had was that Sookie wanted Lor to make the decision for her so that she didn't have to take responsibility for disappointing Jackson. That wasn't cool, but she sorted it out in the end. Also, this is a great episode. One of my favorites to return to.
I do not need to know more than Sookie is the person who will risk her life, and alter her body, not Jackson. I think men have an unacknowledged apathy toward women regarding pregnancy bc the notion birthing children is a natural expectation and trajectory for us. “They have done it forever, it’s not that big of a deal” line of thought. Even when empathetic they can’t truly ever live a woman’s experience on this front. It is not you whose agency is stolen and it’s not you who is taught this is your duty and it’s not you who risks your body and it’s not your life being devalued and the kicker? It’s often not you being an equal parent. Therefore no man should ever push at all on this matter. Discuss the desire to have kids before getting too serious to make sure you’re compatible, sure. Men and men’s feeling are so centered, it’s time to say, on occasion, what they want doesn’t matter. She’s agreeing to have multiple kids. And Jackson already has this idea of using kids like dolls, which is not encouraging. Secondly, he’s punishing his wife for confiding in someone else. That’s isolating. Lundy Bancroft would not approve. Sookie should not have passed the buck but what does it say this dude went to find and admonish his wife’s friend for *gasps* her opinion on something she has actually live experience of. “Oh by all means let other people weigh in” (paraphrasing) SIR you are the one yelling about literally in front of the whole town. It’s misogynistic plain and simple but boy will it come up again in the worst of ways. Unfortunately I think the shows narrative IS trying to frame them as both equally in the wrong but man that’s just not the case. Her body, her choice on who to discuss it with. and there shouldn’t be any rhetoric suggesting otherwise, as that’s silencing women. Bad history that. Edit: oh and you should definitely know that the reason people hate Jackson, while epitomized in this episode with the misogyny I’m reflecting on, is really serious. I might suggesting looking it up. To be fair the show does not treat it with the severity it deserves. OH. and (I love this show btw) the Norman Mailer bit to come is actually evil. This show insanely misogynistic when it very purposefully brings a famous author who stabbed his wife, in real life causing her pain until she died, on as a joke. I’d say that’s just THE worst thing this entire series does.
Ooo I could talk about this one forever Suki - was not wrong to talk to her friend, but she needed to come to the conversation knowing, or very close to knowing, what she wanted instead of looking to be told what to do. Suki also kind of threw her friend under the bus a little because she got flustered and started staying what LORALIE said and would want, instead of using that conversation to figure out what she wants and needs. Jackson - had good points. It IS only his and Sukis decision ultimately. It's not Loralies business at the end of the day. However I think being upset that his wife sought advice from a friend she trusts was a little unreasonable. This is a big decision and change, seeking advice from someone who has been down the path you're looking at is pretty natural. Also blowing up at everyone so publicly was not okay. That needed to be discussed in private when he wasn't so flooded and emotional. Lor - stepped over the line a little with how much of her personal opinion she gave, and how strongly she gave it. She definitely could have recentered the discussion back to Suki and figuring out what Suki wants. However she was asked for her opinion, and thus gave it. Which is valid. Her being taken aback by Jackson coming at her is valid, but she didn't need to add fuel to the fire by trying to debate someone who isn't ready or able to rationalize, and is too flooded. They all were right in parts, and wrong. They also all need better communication skills.
@@iluvfishescuztheyresodelicious Okay, yeah, that was awful. To be entirely fair, though, Sookie shouldn't have made the decision solo for him to do it in the first place while recovering from labor. And I don't even think the S7 writers thought through how problematic that was, they just felt like they were forced to do it because Melissa McCarthy was pregnant in real life (which made zero sense to me, TV shows hide pregnancies all the time).
@@megroy6396 she made an appointment for him and although she pressured him to do this minor procedure (after she just gave birth the second time and was likely bearing the brunt of contraception during their whole relationship), he could have opted out (and did) after which he made the solo decision to have unprotected sex that resulted in a full blown prenancy and birth for her. I am angry that the show made me sympathize with Jackson when I was younger and had no clue about the horrors of pregnancy/birth and how easy vasectomies are in comparision to surgical or hormonal female birth control.
@@leza4453but he clearly wanted more kids....and sookie didn't respect that. There should have been communication first. Vasectomies are simple yes but they are permanent. He totally should have told her he didn't go through with it, absolutely. I never got why they put that in there. But I would never tell my husband what to do with his body, especially a permanent decision, especially after having just given birth. No one wants another baby in that state 😂 it was rash and unfair on sookies part, and the way jackson handled it was terrible.
@@LostRoswellian vasectomies are not permanent. They are reversible. Also he NEEDED to tell Sookie that he didn’t get it. Sure she shouldn’t have made the appointment. But that’s not as bad as having unprotected sex with a female without her knowing she could get pregnant. If he wanted more kids THAT badly then he should have divorced her. Not put her through all that again. She didn’t give him a lot of warning…but he gave her absolutely no choice!!
Suki and Jackson understand each other. While their dynamic may not fit everyone else it works for them. While she gains confidence as a married lady, she is going to talk to her best friend and she is going to figure out how to balance the conversations between Lorelai and Jackson. It comes with experience. You learn what to share, how much to share with a best friend and when to ignore their thoughts if they are not applicable. It takes time to make the transition for your best friend being "your person" to your spouse being "your person", so stuff like this will happen and as Suki gets more comfortable as a wife, she'll get better at it.
I am so dying for you to reach the S4 finale and S5 premiere episodes 😭 I need to see your take on those because I have am very emotionally flooded about them!
Thanks for these therapized videos! I would love one on Heartstopper season 3 now that the mental illness storylines are all quite intensely at the forefront of the story
My only thought on the 4 in 4 story is that: "My childbearing arrangements are between me and Sookie!" "And the Lord." is the best exchange on this show.
I agree. I've unfortunately had to learn the hard way that it's important to have boundaries, in general, and in the sense that if you your partner are having an issue, it's important to address that to eachother. And if you need advice, probably going to your therapist is better, and if you need to vent, you can always write it down in a journal, use an app, or yes even pray. I have lost myself in my relationship, and took everyone's advice to heart and wouldn't practice making these important decisions for myself, my experience. It also would have helped if I knew how and what boundaries to set in my relationships, so I didn't make the mistakes I did, or at least have given myself the tools to have better prevented them. It's a learning curve for me. But one that I am making best I can, and striving to do better in. So again I feel you and the show have got it right. Though practice makes progress, that's to say, it takes time and consistent effort.
While I appreciate your insight, I want to add that there are a lot of people suffering from injust or even abusive situations in their relationships and may not even realise that or know how to navigate that, if they are not (allowed to) confiding in another person.
I think the fun of this whole moment, is that they are all doing poorly first and then getting better due to each others clumsy input X'D So, for all their mess, they have more ability to be open to input than a great deal of people I've encountered in life thus far! Other than that, I find your description on point!
All I can think is, omg he’s made it to the dance episode! The rage we’re going to start getting with Rory from here on out is gonna be so good! 🤣 (Jess does get better. But not until a few SEASONS. Buckle up)
Jono, oh no, you're making me want to watch this whole show. I don't mind if my partner chats or asks advice about our relationship, but those friend or family members better not start coming up to me and telling me how to live. That is all.
Even if they don't ask for advice, if I heard that a friend wanted 4 in 4, I'd still think they were crazy, but not get in their way because it's their choice to make, and change after a while, once they realize what a big responsibility having kids is, and if they can really manage it.
@@jenniferdaniels701 4 in 4 scares me because of the intense physical and mental stress all of that puts on Mom, even if their partner is super devoted and attentive. Not to mention the PPD that is likely to strike, and the possibility of Mom having a stroke.
What would even be the male equivalent of 4in4? Working 2 jobs with overtime and building them a house on the weekends? Or enlisting for 4 years? And then have the woman who demands that of her hubby yelling at his mate, who said that's a crazy schedule?
Do a video on whether you think Lorelai is a good friend to Sookie, because that's a heavily debated topic in the community. Oh, and is Rory a good friend to Lane?
Generally speaking, I wouldn't share anything with a friend about my relationship that I wouldn't be comfortable with my parents finding out about. Yes, there are lines. Yes, everyone has a right to privacy. Yes, friends have a right to ask opinions of their friends, but also friends should be comfortable enforcing the line. "When should I have kids? How many kids should I have?" "Gosh, that's really not my decision to make. That's something for you to decide with your partner." Not really that hard.
I think in this situation, Lorelai was giving advice and basically telling Suki it seems like a lot but she really needs to finalize the decision by having a conversation with Jackson. Of course, because it's a dramedy, there's miscommunication but it all gets worked out. In the real world, anything involving children (how many, parenting, etc.) is solely the decision of the couple and no one else. Which is why I absolutely HATE IT when people ask couples when they're going to have children. You don't know the situation of the couple but more importantly, it's none of your business! By asking that question, you are intruding into their relationship and asking personal details that you are not entitled to no matter how close you are to the couple.
I think that, in this case, her talking to Lorelai was both good and bad. Good in that her feelings were validated, bad in that she wanted Lorelai to think for her. Jackson needed to calm down, do some research about what pregnancy and childbirth does to the one going through it, and get more realistic expectations. What he wanted could kill. As for how much I share about my own relationship, there aren't many people I'm even comfortable with talking to about it. I have family that tends to be judgmental (my family is LDS, my dad's racist, my mom tries to keep the peace by encouraging everyone to not go against my dad's wishes. In the meantime, I'm dating a man that's half-black, not LDS, and my mom blames him for me falling away from the church when that actually started before him. It's a mess), the friend I was closest to took my relationship as me replacing her, and I'm not that close with most of my friends. There's only one I'll talk to about it and that's mainly because I know she's not going to just assume it's all bad and will give me another way to look at it.
I think jackson overreacted, but i also think sookie maybe misrepresented lorali and threw her under the bus a bit because of her lack of good communication skills. I think you are right that she needs to learn to advocate for herself with her husband, not hide behind what lorali thinks to back up her opinion. So i actually like that she apologises because i think.she realises that she threw lorali under the bus, and lorali umderstands and forgives her, no grudge necessary. Its a good solid friendship 👌 people should be able to make mistakes
Lorelai did NOT tell Sookie what to do. Did we watch a different show?? She asked her what she wanted and then told her to have a honest conversation with Jackson. What is wrong with that?
They -had to be- leaning into the folly of a man screeching about his choices about having kids being publicly judged, while everyone with a uterus in a five mile radius just facepalmed about him ALMOST getting the point. 🤣
Hm... I know that getting in between two lovers will always end in a disaster, so my rule is to never offer an opinion on such matters. I can say what I would want FOR ME, but I would have to stress it so my friend knows I am only talking about myself and I can accept a differing choice or opinion. When it comes to healing, I feel like turning to a friend let alone a community, is a no go for me personally. I have been much better off thinking and figuring things out on my own and others only distract me. I tend to easy be swayed by someone I like, and so for me it's always better to first do the thinking, feeling, probing into myself and getting an answer, then turning to a friend for advice or opinion no matter how much I love or cherish the friend. Am I wrong? Too self-reliant?
Just coming from the beginning, the guy came in waaaayyy to heated for this to go anywhere but South. Another thing, people can think you're doing something crazy without you taking offense. Training at the level Olympians do IS crazy, but it has results. We know how difficult raising children is, 4 in 4 years is a ridiculously potent work load. Suki clearly didn't want that herself but felt like she needed someone else to be the one bearing that news as to not upset him. So on that note, he seems pretty adamant about the child situation, so he must've been planning this, so why has it gone this far into the relationship before it comes up? And it's only 2 minutes in lol
I think people should not get married before discussing if they want children or how many children they want to have (recognizing that the number could change with time and experience). And that is the woman’s choice. A husband demanding 4 kids in 4 years is grounds for a divorce. Sookie has the right to communicate with anyone she wants to about her husband’s unreasonable demands.
1:10 Jackson is the one bringing this up in a public area. He's so annoying, I would not want to have children with a man who cannot regulate himself. He's Suki's most annoying child.
I cannot like Jackson after my first rewatch. What he does with the vasectomy and Sookie’s pregnancy after that, just destroys his character completely. A total violation. I really hope this is something they will cover in this series.
Did Jackson really tricked Sookie into having a baby? I didn't catch that on the show. I never saw the show back to back (my cable tv at the time was really problematic).
Yes, Sookie asked Jackson to get a vasectomy (right after she gave birth)- which he didn’t want-but then pretended to have gotten anyway. So when Sookie took a break from her birth control she thought she could still safely have sex with him. Jackson later realized Sookie had gotten pregnant and STILL didn’t tell her until Lorelai found out and made him tell her.
I don’t watch the show, but my humble opinion is that if Suki told her partner firmly to stop and discuss it in private, after she was the one that disclosed details of their relationship to outside people probably she would have escalated things rather than take them under control, because it might sound hypocritical.
I think Suki triangulated Lorelai because SHE did not want to have that many kids and did not feel empowered to tell him directly. And that could be a direct result of Jackson having big emotions and escalating into drama. If you don't ever feel safe to disagree directly with your partner, and instead feel the urge to triangulate friends, that could be a warning sign about a power imbalance in the relationship.
This is a good point. I think you articulated the same thing that I feel about this dynamic but wasn't sure how to word. We all want honesty from our partners, but if we don't create a safe place for them to be honest without, for example, shouting at their friends in public when they tried to assert themselves... then we haven't really earned that honesty.
People avoid telling the truth and facing potential conflict when they don't feel safe. And yes, that can be trauma from past experiences that have nothing to do with the relationship, but in this instance I think we see some very real signs of control from Jackson. And on this topic, Jackson should be actively and carefully making sure Sookie is comfortable, because it's her body, her risk, her life on hold... The very fact that he's so pushy to begin with on the topic of how much she is expected to be pregnant makes me very uncomfortable.
Exactly. She knew he wouldn't like it, he'd have a temper tantrum, so she set up a straw man for him to target.
Also when he made the public statement, everyone knows she doesn't want to have kids that way, so now if she does, they'll know he made her against her will.
She's smarter than she gives off.
What’s sick is when she did get pregnant, he lied about wearing a condom… the rape was glazed over in the series
@@gingerisevil02 he lied about having gotten a vasectomy
@@tjohns25 Same thing. Arguably even worse. It's a sexual assault.
*I disagree with Jono on this one.* When Sookie first came to Lorelai on this, Lorelai made a joke (per usual) because Sookie was freaked out at the idea of 4 in 4, then asked, “well do you want 4 in 4?” And Sookie shoots back, “I thought 1, maybe 2 if the first one is really quiet” (yes I am going off this strictly by memory).
So Sookie obviously does not want 4 in 4, but as Sookie also says, “we’re newlyweds…we have never had a real fight.” And Lorelai often brings Sookie back to reality when she is in her head. That’s what female best friends do, even in their 30’s. I know @ 33, mine still does.
Lorelai is Sookie’s safe space *always*. Jackson is clearly not there yet. They were not together all that long before getting married. So, to tell your wife she can’t go to her safe space is more than unfair.
I understand that marriages have boundaries, as well as it may hurt Jackson a bit that his wife trusts Lorelai more than him to talk through this matter but that is NOT ON LORELAI.
Also, there is a *huge* difference between Lorelai prying and Sookie looking for advice from the person she trusts the most, when she is scared to upset her new husband.
The thing is Lorelai was put in the middle by Suki. Suki came to her panic and Lorelai was having her back with commenting that’s crazy, but then told her to talk to Jackson about it. Like Suki implied she’s not good with conflict so when trying to talk to Jackson instead of just saying I’m not comfortable with that amount of kids she said Lorelai agrees, but Jackson took it as Lorelai talked her out of what he wanted. It’s fine to have boundaries in your relationship but stop blaming the friend for your bad communication.
I agree with what you say about Sookie being too reliant on Lorelai, but on this specific topic, Lorelai is the only person in this situation who has been pregnant before. She's the only one who is fully able to process what four in four really entails, so if Sookie's going to confide in anyone, someone who's already a mother probably has a measured take on the situation. And Sookie is the one who would be spending 75% of the next four years pregnant (and, after the first one, with extremely young kids to take care of at the same time), so I feel like Jackson should have introduced the topic for discussion, not just said, "here's what we're doing."
But also, Jackson making that decision before even having one kid kind of...lacks foresight? I had cousins who wanted three in three and then hit pause after the second one because having two kids in two years ended up overwhelming them, especially when their oldest turned out to be special needs. They also started with a "no screens before the age of five" rule that went out the window when their daughter started walking because it was a way to make her sit still.
It's been a while since I watched, but doesn't what Lorelai tell Sookie boil down to "I think 4 in 4 is a lot, but YOU need to discuss this with Jackson"? In which case...how is that wrong/involving herself too much? Isn't the issue that Sookie relays Lorelai's words wrong, and that Jackson flies off the handle? In another episode (the one with the giant pizza for Lorelai's birthday), he pulls the same move on Rory too, who's still a minor at that point if I'm not wrong, cornering her in the street and yelling at her...😅 mans got issues for sure
Yeah, that's the thing. You're completely right. The first thing Lorelai does is ask Sookie if SHE is okay with four kids in four years, and Sookie says no. And, yeah, Lorelai tells Sookie that it's a conversation that *she* should have with Jackson.
I'm mostly fine with Jackson. Yeah I think he acts irrationally sometimes but I think he's a good fit for Sookie.
I think it is a red flag that he yells at Lorelai instead of having a conversation with Sookie about what to share and what not to share.
He clearly did not ask Sookie beforehand, if she was comfortable with him telling Lorelai off. It is inappropriate.
Also, Sookie has to make an important decision on her own body and is allowed to ask someone close to her, who went through pregnancy and birth herself, what she thinks. He does not get to yell just because he does not like the answer.
I think Jack had a right to feel exposed and/or betrayed in his confidences, if he had been operating under the assumption that "children" was a "just for us" topic of discussion. However, he had no right to yell at her or her friend group in public. It is understandable why he did, but not excusable. She wasn't aware that she was violating a boundary of his, after all. And, as the woman who would have been carrying the children to term (with all the health risks involved), she was within her rights to seek the opinions of those whose opinions she trusts.
Much of this drama could have been avoided if they had discussed this boundary beforehand... but then we wouldn't have this episode, lol 😅
@@AnotherNerdyPerson I don't even know if he could call that a boundary. I thought boundaries are for you not for somebody else. Just because he has a boundary where he only talks about certain things with his spouse doesn't mean his spouse has to agree with that boundary or set it for themselves and he's just gonna have to deal with that. Suki felt more comfortable talking to Lorelei than she did with Jackson. If Jackson has even a Popsicles chance in hell of getting her to agree to sharing the boundary he's gonna have to stop showing that he's willing to loose his cool in a public fashion. Remember this is not his oy offense. Later he goes off on Rory out in the square because Sookie was upset about not getting to do the giant pizza. He also had a hissy fit when Sookie went to get her own strawberries because he refused to sell her his and was trying to force her to take something else instead of giving her what she needed and had specifically asked for, it's not even good professionally speaking let alone boding well for a relationship. He also later confides in Lorelei when he's also afraid to tell Sookie their own bit of news.
I think Jackson handled it perfectly in a TV show where he's playing for laughs. In reality no he should have calmed down and had a private conversation with Suki.
Sookie was having difficulty having that conversation with Jackson. If anything Jackson should have apologized and assured Sookie that he is a safe person to come to and confide in. Sookie was imagining a totally different scenario and that's exactly what she told Lorelei. She said "I was thinking one...or two if the first one is really quiet" That is the complete opposite of 4 babies in 4 years. All Jackson did in that moment was reinforce WHY Sookie should go to Lorelei first. Maybe I missed it but Lorelei had an opinion (and sorry not sorry she is entitled to FOR HER) but she also told Sookie that she needs to be able to have the conversation with Jackson and be open and honest about what SHE wanted. Lorelei did not tell her to parrot what she said. She told her to be honest and even said "It's not much of a marriage if you can't talk about the big things".
4 in 4 is a LOT of wear and tear on Suki’s body, I’m sure people do it but oof… it’s a lot to ask. I think if I was Suki I’d be like hey… let’s start trying. We’ll have a baby and see how my body recovers. We’ll start for number two when I’ve recovered which could be a couple months but it could be a couple years. I don’t know because I’ve never had a baby. I’m not saying we can’t have 4 children but we need to do it at the rate which allows my body to be healthy so I have the energy to help you enjoy raising them.
This! It seems kind of naive to me to be so set on a certain number and timeframe before you even started trying, let alone have the experience of one pregnancy and having a kid, especially for a man. After all, he seems to not have the faintest idea, how draining pregnancies can be.
I think the bigger issue is that Jackson is attacking Sookie's support system that she clearly needs to process their relationship.
Sookie doesn't feel comfortable or respected enough to tell Jackson that she's not okay with this many kids this quickly and it's not on him to decide what her body is to do in what timeframe and how quickly she recovers after a pregnancy. And Sookie rightfully was worried because Jackson put so much pressure on her that 1) she felt she needed Lorelei as backup bc her wishes alone weren't respected enough by Jackson and 2) she felt unable to communicate well/properly and got nervous. Jackson gets enraged even more and publicly berates her support system.
Jackson comes off as massively controlling, aggressive and volatile and Sookie feels like she's responsible for his emotions and to please him.
My partner doesn't get to dictate what I feel like I need to talk to my friends about to help process things or work through them.
Having a baby carries with it physical trauma and the potential for death, and Jackson basically went into 'Your body, my choice' mode. Suki was well within her rights to discuss this with her best friend Lorelai, who actually has a uterus, unlike Jackson, and who's experienced childbirth. Jackson demanding 4 children in 4 years is outrageous, especially since women often breastfeed for more than a year. The World Health Organization when I had my child recommended at least 2 years or more. My daughter stopped nursing between 3 and 4 years old. Having as many kids as Jackson wants in a short time could mean that Suki was still nursing children while new babies where coming. That short changes the children and it's not fair to her. It is toxic and arrogant for Jackson to even for part of the episode to think he has the right to demand that. As for Luke and Lorelai at the end, it's still pretty clear Luke doesn't like kids, but Lorelai does, and in the same episode, the Rory and Dean breakup over Jess happens, which Luke encouraged the relationship between Rory and Jess while Rory was in a committed relationship with someone else, which shows Luke has questionable character, especially since he knew Lorelai didn't want Rory and Jess together.... but what do I expect from the Luke who during Jess's first episode went into toxic mode when Lorelai expressed valid concerns about Jess. Luke attacked Lorelai for getting pregnant as a teenager. Luke is not good boyfriend, husband, or father material, but Gilmore Girls fandom often ignores Luke's bad behavior, while taking issue with other male characters like Jackson, Chris, etc. I originally shipped Luke and Lorelai, but it got to toxic for me.
I just dont understand why married coupleals don't discuss having children BEFORE they get married.
This also applies to another couple when they get married in season 7.
Of course I know that surprises happen and sometimes people change their minds, but I'm talking specifically about people who get married and then bring up the topic for the first time.
Yeah, "Let's meld our finances and make breaking up a horrible ordeal before discussing the most basic life plans" seems like a very dumb strategy. As if marriage were just a romantic milestone, instead of a legal act with immense consequences.
Is the friend trustworthy and will keep the information to themselves? Or are they a gossip? That would be important to me on either side of the relationship (for the couple).
Lorelai is a mother already, so she can have an informed opinion if 4 kids in 4 years is reasonable.
One could also argue that a conversation between friends should stay private.
L. is in no way hostile towards Jackson during his outburst. Friends can have opinions, but the couple makes the decisions. She respects that and seems a very good friend to me.
just hold on, this storyline between jackson and sookie is not done yet…
Right?! I hate what Jackson does later! 😡
Yeah, the later part is what made Jackson unlikable to me. This was just a tiny spat.
@@moniw89To be fair, it was during season 7.
@rachaelknudsen8801 true, season 7 had several characters act kinda strange
Mm, the storyline later where Jackson very much ignores Suki's bodily autonomy? Yeah, that storyline.
I think regardless of the context of the situation, you always should have a right to talk to your best friend. Now where sookie goes wrong is instead of using lorelai as a sounding board to figure out what she wants, she decides to completely take lorelais opinion as her own. Also don't love how instead of lorelai listening first to sookie first and helping her to make a informed decision, she jumps straight into "4 in for is crazy"
I think it is okay for a couple to decide to keep topics for themselves, even regarding very close friends, but that his has to be explicitly agreed upon by both beforehand. And, if one partner violates that agreement, they have to talk about the violation with each other, not the third party. Also, he should have asked Sookie if she is comfortable with him confronting Lorelai about this issue, as this is another violation of a boundary.
PLEASE TALK ABOUT THE VASECTOMY LIE NEXT!!!!! I think it’s so important for people to understand that was grape. Suki consented to having unprotected sex with a man with a vasectomy. Theres so much psychologicaly wrong with that entire scenario. Suki forcing it on him, him lying, the potential trauma that should have caused, etc. thank you!
i really NEED you to get to the 4 episode special they made on Netflix like 10/15 years after the original series ended... i firmly believe they changed the core values and personality of some of the characters and they do and say thing they would never actually do or say and i really want to listen to a profesional's opinion about that entire thing
I have no desire to relive that awful mini series
I think men often misunderstand that women talk about everything with their best friends. Everything. My best friend and I have been talking about boys, marriage, kids since we were 13. We've spent many late night conversations talking about conversations with spouses that irked us or left us wondering if we did the wrong thing and how we can fix it. It's about Trust and respect. Sookie and Lorelai adore each other and love each other like siblings. Sookie wasn't trying to put Lorelai in a bad spot and she wasn't trying to upset Jackson. She was trying to work out the pros and cons of more or less kids than what Jackson wanted because she had not decided what was right for her yet. She wants to make Jackson happy but she's also not the best at saying no to things she's not comfortable with. They got to the right spot in the end with both communicating what they wanted and coming to a compromise that made them feel good and safe with each other. I do think Jackson overreacted to Sookie's conversation with Lorelai but I understand why he did. I think it's absolutely appropriate for a best friend to have an opinion when asked. It's just advice and doesn't mean that's the only choice to make. The only problem I had was that Sookie wanted Lor to make the decision for her so that she didn't have to take responsibility for disappointing Jackson. That wasn't cool, but she sorted it out in the end.
Also, this is a great episode. One of my favorites to return to.
Jono giving us the luke/Lorelai scene?! He really is for the people 💛🫰
There is so little good content on the internet. I really love yours. Please keep doing it. 🙏❤️
Thank you so much! We so appreciate the kind words, and we are glad you have loved it so much! Keep shining! 💜💜💜
I do not need to know more than Sookie is the person who will risk her life, and alter her body, not Jackson. I think men have an unacknowledged apathy toward women regarding pregnancy bc the notion birthing children is a natural expectation and trajectory for us. “They have done it forever, it’s not that big of a deal” line of thought.
Even when empathetic they can’t truly ever live a woman’s experience on this front. It is not you whose agency is stolen and it’s not you who is taught this is your duty and it’s not you who risks your body and it’s not your life being devalued and the kicker? It’s often not you being an equal parent. Therefore no man should ever push at all on this matter. Discuss the desire to have kids before getting too serious to make sure you’re compatible, sure. Men and men’s feeling are so centered, it’s time to say, on occasion, what they want doesn’t matter. She’s agreeing to have multiple kids. And Jackson already has this idea of using kids like dolls, which is not encouraging.
Secondly, he’s punishing his wife for confiding in someone else. That’s isolating. Lundy Bancroft would not approve.
Sookie should not have passed the buck but what does it say this dude went to find and admonish his wife’s friend for *gasps* her opinion on something she has actually live experience of. “Oh by all means let other people weigh in” (paraphrasing) SIR you are the one yelling about literally in front of the whole town.
It’s misogynistic plain and simple but boy will it come up again in the worst of ways.
Unfortunately I think the shows narrative IS trying to frame them as both equally in the wrong but man that’s just not the case. Her body, her choice on who to discuss it with. and there shouldn’t be any rhetoric suggesting otherwise, as that’s silencing women. Bad history that.
Edit: oh and you should definitely know that the reason people hate Jackson, while epitomized in this episode with the misogyny I’m reflecting on, is really serious. I might suggesting looking it up. To be fair the show does not treat it with the severity it deserves. OH. and (I love this show btw) the Norman Mailer bit to come is actually evil. This show insanely misogynistic when it very purposefully brings a famous author who stabbed his wife, in real life causing her pain until she died, on as a joke. I’d say that’s just THE worst thing this entire series does.
Ooo I could talk about this one forever
Suki - was not wrong to talk to her friend, but she needed to come to the conversation knowing, or very close to knowing, what she wanted instead of looking to be told what to do. Suki also kind of threw her friend under the bus a little because she got flustered and started staying what LORALIE said and would want, instead of using that conversation to figure out what she wants and needs.
Jackson - had good points. It IS only his and Sukis decision ultimately. It's not Loralies business at the end of the day. However I think being upset that his wife sought advice from a friend she trusts was a little unreasonable. This is a big decision and change, seeking advice from someone who has been down the path you're looking at is pretty natural. Also blowing up at everyone so publicly was not okay. That needed to be discussed in private when he wasn't so flooded and emotional.
Lor - stepped over the line a little with how much of her personal opinion she gave, and how strongly she gave it. She definitely could have recentered the discussion back to Suki and figuring out what Suki wants. However she was asked for her opinion, and thus gave it. Which is valid. Her being taken aback by Jackson coming at her is valid, but she didn't need to add fuel to the fire by trying to debate someone who isn't ready or able to rationalize, and is too flooded.
They all were right in parts, and wrong. They also all need better communication skills.
People have an issue with Jackson???
I love him😂😂😂❤❤
Yes, primarily because of the vasectomy debacle.
@@iluvfishescuztheyresodelicious Okay, yeah, that was awful. To be entirely fair, though, Sookie shouldn't have made the decision solo for him to do it in the first place while recovering from labor. And I don't even think the S7 writers thought through how problematic that was, they just felt like they were forced to do it because Melissa McCarthy was pregnant in real life (which made zero sense to me, TV shows hide pregnancies all the time).
@@megroy6396 she made an appointment for him and although she pressured him to do this minor procedure (after she just gave birth the second time and was likely bearing the brunt of contraception during their whole relationship), he could have opted out (and did) after which he made the solo decision to have unprotected sex that resulted in a full blown prenancy and birth for her.
I am angry that the show made me sympathize with Jackson when I was younger and had no clue about the horrors of pregnancy/birth and how easy vasectomies are in comparision to surgical or hormonal female birth control.
@@leza4453but he clearly wanted more kids....and sookie didn't respect that. There should have been communication first. Vasectomies are simple yes but they are permanent. He totally should have told her he didn't go through with it, absolutely. I never got why they put that in there. But I would never tell my husband what to do with his body, especially a permanent decision, especially after having just given birth. No one wants another baby in that state 😂 it was rash and unfair on sookies part, and the way jackson handled it was terrible.
@@LostRoswellian vasectomies are not permanent. They are reversible. Also he NEEDED to tell Sookie that he didn’t get it. Sure she shouldn’t have made the appointment. But that’s not as bad as having unprotected sex with a female without her knowing she could get pregnant.
If he wanted more kids THAT badly then he should have divorced her. Not put her through all that again. She didn’t give him a lot of warning…but he gave her absolutely no choice!!
Suki and Jackson understand each other. While their dynamic may not fit everyone else it works for them. While she gains confidence as a married lady, she is going to talk to her best friend and she is going to figure out how to balance the conversations between Lorelai and Jackson. It comes with experience. You learn what to share, how much to share with a best friend and when to ignore their thoughts if they are not applicable. It takes time to make the transition for your best friend being "your person" to your spouse being "your person", so stuff like this will happen and as Suki gets more comfortable as a wife, she'll get better at it.
I am so dying for you to reach the S4 finale and S5 premiere episodes 😭 I need to see your take on those because I have am very emotionally flooded about them!
Thanks for these therapized videos! I would love one on Heartstopper season 3 now that the mental illness storylines are all quite intensely at the forefront of the story
I just love that you put a cute Luke and Lorelai momento just because 😂 just like a true fan
My only thought on the 4 in 4 story is that:
"My childbearing arrangements are between me and Sookie!"
"And the Lord."
is the best exchange on this show.
Followe closely by
"Oh, it's a complete disaster!"
"My existence?"
"Not everything is about you, Lorelai."
I agree. I've unfortunately had to learn the hard way that it's important to have boundaries, in general, and in the sense that if you your partner are having an issue, it's important to address that to eachother. And if you need advice, probably going to your therapist is better, and if you need to vent, you can always write it down in a journal, use an app, or yes even pray. I have lost myself in my relationship, and took everyone's advice to heart and wouldn't practice making these important decisions for myself, my experience. It also would have helped if I knew how and what boundaries to set in my relationships, so I didn't make the mistakes I did, or at least have given myself the tools to have better prevented them. It's a learning curve for me. But one that I am making best I can, and striving to do better in. So again I feel you and the show have got it right. Though practice makes progress, that's to say, it takes time and consistent effort.
While I appreciate your insight, I want to add that there are a lot of people suffering from injust or even abusive situations in their relationships and may not even realise that or know how to navigate that, if they are not (allowed to) confiding in another person.
I think the fun of this whole moment, is that they are all doing poorly first and then getting better due to each others clumsy input X'D
So, for all their mess, they have more ability to be open to input than a great deal of people I've encountered in life thus far!
Other than that, I find your description on point!
All I can think is, omg he’s made it to the dance episode! The rage we’re going to start getting with Rory from here on out is gonna be so good! 🤣 (Jess does get better. But not until a few SEASONS. Buckle up)
Jono, oh no, you're making me want to watch this whole show.
I don't mind if my partner chats or asks advice about our relationship, but those friend or family members better not start coming up to me and telling me how to live. That is all.
Do it! Watch it!
@@MendedLight Hehe, that's a ringing endorsement. I'll look into that, then!
Even if they don't ask for advice, if I heard that a friend wanted 4 in 4, I'd still think they were crazy, but not get in their way because it's their choice to make, and change after a while, once they realize what a big responsibility having kids is, and if they can really manage it.
@@jenniferdaniels701 4 in 4 scares me because of the intense physical and mental stress all of that puts on Mom, even if their partner is super devoted and attentive. Not to mention the PPD that is likely to strike, and the possibility of Mom having a stroke.
What would even be the male equivalent of 4in4? Working 2 jobs with overtime and building them a house on the weekends? Or enlisting for 4 years? And then have the woman who demands that of her hubby yelling at his mate, who said that's a crazy schedule?
Do a video on whether you think Lorelai is a good friend to Sookie, because that's a heavily debated topic in the community. Oh, and is Rory a good friend to Lane?
I really thought you were gonna talk about the Rory/Jess/Dean portion of this episode
I think he already did, unless they were at another type of dance competition? 🤔
@ ohhhh I think I remember that now 🤣 #pregnancybrain
2:37 he was embarrassed coz Suki told private things to lorali now he is talking in full volume to embarrass her in return
Generally speaking, I wouldn't share anything with a friend about my relationship that I wouldn't be comfortable with my parents finding out about. Yes, there are lines. Yes, everyone has a right to privacy. Yes, friends have a right to ask opinions of their friends, but also friends should be comfortable enforcing the line. "When should I have kids? How many kids should I have?" "Gosh, that's really not my decision to make. That's something for you to decide with your partner." Not really that hard.
I think in this situation, Lorelai was giving advice and basically telling Suki it seems like a lot but she really needs to finalize the decision by having a conversation with Jackson. Of course, because it's a dramedy, there's miscommunication but it all gets worked out. In the real world, anything involving children (how many, parenting, etc.) is solely the decision of the couple and no one else. Which is why I absolutely HATE IT when people ask couples when they're going to have children. You don't know the situation of the couple but more importantly, it's none of your business! By asking that question, you are intruding into their relationship and asking personal details that you are not entitled to no matter how close you are to the couple.
I think that, in this case, her talking to Lorelai was both good and bad. Good in that her feelings were validated, bad in that she wanted Lorelai to think for her. Jackson needed to calm down, do some research about what pregnancy and childbirth does to the one going through it, and get more realistic expectations. What he wanted could kill.
As for how much I share about my own relationship, there aren't many people I'm even comfortable with talking to about it. I have family that tends to be judgmental (my family is LDS, my dad's racist, my mom tries to keep the peace by encouraging everyone to not go against my dad's wishes. In the meantime, I'm dating a man that's half-black, not LDS, and my mom blames him for me falling away from the church when that actually started before him. It's a mess), the friend I was closest to took my relationship as me replacing her, and I'm not that close with most of my friends. There's only one I'll talk to about it and that's mainly because I know she's not going to just assume it's all bad and will give me another way to look at it.
DBT skills for Jackson. Coming hot right now! 😅😁👍🏻
100% necessary, lol.
I think jackson overreacted, but i also think sookie maybe misrepresented lorali and threw her under the bus a bit because of her lack of good communication skills. I think you are right that she needs to learn to advocate for herself with her husband, not hide behind what lorali thinks to back up her opinion. So i actually like that she apologises because i think.she realises that she threw lorali under the bus, and lorali umderstands and forgives her, no grudge necessary. Its a good solid friendship 👌 people should be able to make mistakes
Lorelai did NOT tell Sookie what to do. Did we watch a different show?? She asked her what she wanted and then told her to have a honest conversation with Jackson. What is wrong with that?
They -had to be- leaning into the folly of a man screeching about his choices about having kids being publicly judged, while everyone with a uterus in a five mile radius just facepalmed about him ALMOST getting the point. 🤣
Hm... I know that getting in between two lovers will always end in a disaster, so my rule is to never offer an opinion on such matters. I can say what I would want FOR ME, but I would have to stress it so my friend knows I am only talking about myself and I can accept a differing choice or opinion.
When it comes to healing, I feel like turning to a friend let alone a community, is a no go for me personally. I have been much better off thinking and figuring things out on my own and others only distract me. I tend to easy be swayed by someone I like, and so for me it's always better to first do the thinking, feeling, probing into myself and getting an answer, then turning to a friend for advice or opinion no matter how much I love or cherish the friend. Am I wrong? Too self-reliant?
Just coming from the beginning, the guy came in waaaayyy to heated for this to go anywhere but South. Another thing, people can think you're doing something crazy without you taking offense. Training at the level Olympians do IS crazy, but it has results.
We know how difficult raising children is, 4 in 4 years is a ridiculously potent work load.
Suki clearly didn't want that herself but felt like she needed someone else to be the one bearing that news as to not upset him. So on that note, he seems pretty adamant about the child situation, so he must've been planning this, so why has it gone this far into the relationship before it comes up? And it's only 2 minutes in lol
I think people should not get married before discussing if they want children or how many children they want to have (recognizing that the number could change with time and experience). And that is the woman’s choice. A husband demanding 4 kids in 4 years is grounds for a divorce. Sookie has the right to communicate with anyone she wants to about her husband’s unreasonable demands.
Jackson is wrong to get angry and Lourine. He's not in a relationship with her, so she's under no duty with him. He should be angry at Suki.
1:10 Jackson is the one bringing this up in a public area. He's so annoying, I would not want to have children with a man who cannot regulate himself. He's Suki's most annoying child.
I think Jackson has a right to be upset however I think he went about it wrong.
How could he have addressed it better? 🤔 💜
I cannot like Jackson after my first rewatch. What he does with the vasectomy and Sookie’s pregnancy after that, just destroys his character completely. A total violation.
I really hope this is something they will cover in this series.
Did Jackson really tricked Sookie into having a baby? I didn't catch that on the show. I never saw the show back to back (my cable tv at the time was really problematic).
Yes, Sookie asked Jackson to get a vasectomy (right after she gave birth)- which he didn’t want-but then pretended to have gotten anyway. So when Sookie took a break from her birth control she thought she could still safely have sex with him. Jackson later realized Sookie had gotten pregnant and STILL didn’t tell her until Lorelai found out and made him tell her.
@lee56987 wow! That's shocking!
I don’t watch the show, but my humble opinion is that if Suki told her partner firmly to stop and discuss it in private, after she was the one that disclosed details of their relationship to outside people probably she would have escalated things rather than take them under control, because it might sound hypocritical.