Yes so true! It's like she grew up learning how to make decisions based on others' opinions, manipulation and morals, that's why later on, some of her decisions are so shocking because she hasn't formed her own moral compass in which she makes decisions.
I hadn't heard that perspective before but now I relate to it so much, I don't think I've been manipulated but the part about trying to do what others ask of you preventing you to form your own moral conpass.
Episodes like this are a fun reminder that Lorelai isn't just paranoid. Every time she lets her guard down with Emily and Richard, they go behind her back and or manipulate her. And it really sucks that decades later they keep throwing that Lorelai didn't go to college in her face.
Children don't lie about this stuff, practically EVER!! I'm the same with my parents, I know it's super unsafe to depend on them, I feel and know it in my bones. There's no loyalty. Even if from an outside perspective people are like "why don't you just ask your parents? They're so nice!!"
Can we also please talk about Richard’s complete inability and total lack of desire to stand up for his WIFE in the face of blatant disrespect from his mother? His mother’s behavior was never “playful” or “done out of love”, she was downright terrible to Emily and Richard laughed along with her sometimes, in front of Emily!!
And Emily does exactly the same to her own daughter every single fight they have but everyone turns round and says Lorelai is childish and immature . Rory is Lorelai's child and Lorelai is bringing her up not the grandparents. When Rory moves in with her grandparents and they can't control Rory once again Lorelai is blamed by everyone . Rory is Lorelai's child she has the right to bring her up how she wants
5:35 "Richard has this mentality of either you agree with me, or you are ridiculous." As a person raised by exactly that type of father, hearing you talk about this was very appreciated. Thank you.
Richard believes that Rory is smart, but he infantilizes her. He doesn’t trust her to make her own decisions “because she’s a child.” Instead of respecting her as a young adult making her OWN decisions about her future, he tries to control her. Instead of respecting her own decisions, he wants her to do what HE thinks is best. It is very infuriating.
I feel like it's in part coz of what happened with lorelai leaving them. Not that it's her fault but like it seems like he hasn't resolved anything about it and is sorta pushing his ideal version of that situation onto rory. Almost as if he feels like now he has his ideal daughter/granddaughter to get what he wants since rorys more studious and introverted and less "rebellious" than lorelai was at that age.
It makes me incredibly sad how their trip to Yale up to this point was so beautiful! It felt like a restorative experience - Lorelei and Emily were getting along well, Emily and Richard were being romantic, sharing experiences from their youth Rory and Lorelei didn't know about. And then this. Manipulation at its finest.
5:34 - THANK YOU I've seen so many people say (wrongly) that Lorelai was *forcing* Rory to go to Harvard. When it's so obvious that Lorelai wants Rory to pursue her dreams (no matter what they are) cuz her parents were so dismissive of her own wants and dreams. Later when Rory does want to go to Yale, Lorelai gets upset *because* of this trip and how manipulative she knows her parents can be. But as soon as she sees Rory's pro-con lists and realizes that Rory put a lot of thought into her decision, she backs Rory up 100%. So long as it's something Rory *actually* wants and is good for her, Lorelai will always support her daughter's decisions.
There's probably a part of Lorelai that steered Rory away from Yale, at least, and encouraged other schools, including Harvard. But once Rory chose a school, Lorelai would have encouraged it, no matter what school it was.
My Mom tried to get me to enlist in the Air Force with my brother. I said no, so I was the bad guy, a trickster as she called me. I didn't enlist, but the damage is done.
Jono's face throughout every scene was also my face when I first saw this. Including the breathing exercises, angry grunts, looking up to the sky for patience, and threats LMAO. I'm here for angry Jono. It's so damn enjoyable and fascinating to see haha.
And yet, a lot of people don't understand why Rory ended up as she did in "A year in the life" ... She seems to have always been guided by others, not her own convictions. Even her Harvard dream, often lauded as her own aspiration, was largely influenced by Lorelai. It's clear that Rory was raised to please, rather than to pursue her authentic self!
I agree. As resistant as Lorelai was to her parents' world, she must have been steering Rory toward 'NOT YALE' from a young age. "Rory has her own mind..." Does she though? Was she really even into journalism? Why on earth did she not find a way to get some work experience for the SH Gazette before the age of 30? I like the way she told Richard off here though.
@@sylviefreeze I agree 100%. Journalism, despite her initial enthusiasm, was more about fitting into a prestigious societal mold than a true passion. Her strengths in leadership and intellectual pursuits are evident, as demonstrated at Yale Newspaper and during her work with Mitchum. Perhaps roles like a professor or writer, which allow for intellectual depth, would have been more fulfilling for her. P.S: I also loved her retort to Richard.💓😅
@@Stargaze_17 To which Richard would respond, "See? She turned out just like you! Just what you wanted to avoid!" And so the cycle begins all over again.
The funny thing here is that Lorelai encouraged Rory to go to Chilton, even though it was a school that Richard and Emily approved of. This blows his entire argument about her motivations out of the water. None of them were perfect by any means, but Lorelai really only wanted to do right by Rory and what she wanted. Even Emily was angry on this one, which really says something.
My parents consider community College to be a "type of trade school", and he is probably similar. It's a stupid sentiment, but it's especially common to hear from older generations. Those same people view a GED as not having a diploma (even if you drop out to get the GED so you can go to a university before you'd graduate otherwise). It's wild how some nitpick these things but I get the impression he is the type to consider Lorelai's degree as "lesser" than graduating from Yale. Then again, he'd probably call Harvard a trade school 🙄
I totally agree with you. 100%. Rory has nothing against going to Yale. Yes, Harvard is her dream, but even she told her grandfather that she would have taken the interview if he'd asked in the first place instead of just dropping it on her. It shows she was willing to look into other schools because it's good to have back ups! While Richard and Emily made great points, I agree that they should have handle the situations better. It was the first time where I saw Lorelai not fully using the "you tried to control me, and when you couldn't, you pushed me away" card. She was thinking more about what Rory wanted and hated how her parents pulled the same BS on Rory that was pulled on her as a kid. Not to mention how Richard and Emily were basically trying to use Rory as some sort of replacement for their daughter in some ways. I love how the actors for Richard and Emily played these roles so well that they got me ticked off at the characters, lol. God, they had a great cast for this show.
THANK YOU! “Ask for forgiveness, not permission” is my ex-husband’s favorite saying, and then he would (and still does) act like I’m the AH for refusing to forgive him when he lies to me and goes behind my back on issues involving my kids. I have always thought that was an nothing but a jerk’s way of handling things, and I appreciate you confirming that I am right and he is the AH.
I don't think I've ever seen this level of unhinged anger from Jono (except maybe in the Twilight episodes) but I'm totally here for it. Richard and Emily were so out of line here.
Richard could have brought up why he thinks that Yale would be a good option for Rory and said: "The Dean is a personal friend of mine, I can arrange an interview with him for you if you want one." This manipulative behaviour will in the end make people stop trusting him.
I think Lorelai was resistant to Yale, not just because Rory had always wanted to go to Harvard but also because Richard went there and wanted Rory to as well. I think Richard was right about that but not for the reason he thinks. I don’t think it’s pettiness, I think Lorelai feels genuine anxiety and fear when her parents try to control Rory’s life the way they tried to do with her, which I think is understandable. Lorelai is far from perfect and very immature but I always understand her emotional reactions when it comes to her parents because of what she’s gone through with them. However, even without the emotional baggage, Richard would have been way out of line for this
@@radhiadeedou8286 Agreed! But I like how later she kinda acknowledges it and supports Rory going to Yale. Richard and Emily really struggle with that kind of change and self awareness. Edited for spelling
As a long-time lover of the show, I would advise you to "strap in" for the future episodes! No spoilers, I'm just really enjoying your reactions and analysis. 👍
Please make more of these!! I had very similar grandparents (without the bank accounts or connections to back their attitudes up) and it helps so much to have these two kinda picked apart. I no longer have contact with my grandparents because of their treatment of me, my mom and my sister, so its truly invaluable to me personally to have this resource!
Full agree, Richard could have gotten the result he wanted simply by asking Rory to consider Yale as an possibility (or backup to Harvard) and to take a tour/meeting. She adores him and would have done it just to make him happy. She also could have gone in prepared and not been blindsided with a huge interview opportunity. Loralie probably would not like it, but she would have (i think) understood the value of having a Yale option if it was brought up in a less deceptive way. I do find it a bit naive on the part of Rory and Loralie that they seemingly never considered that Rory would/should have to consider alternates/backups with such a competitive university choice. Harvard can be the dream and top choice, but honestly they should have been talking about Yale, Princeton, etc since day one as well.
@@karenjones9387 unless i messed up my timeline, that was after this incident.also, like i said, it should have been talked about since day one along with harvard - which is clearly wasn't.
Richard did bring up applying to Yale in conversation when he visited Stars Hollow for the day (not the most jovial situation, but still not deceptive), and Lorelai did not listen to what he had to say about how the system works. Richard was out of line in this situation, but I do think Lorelai's adamant opposition to any consideration of Yale was a serious and established obstacle.
“we see this in military families right” OUCH YOU’RE SO RIGHT… I feel this deeply, I mean, my dad making the big decisions, my mom taking his side and me being the one who steps between them for my younger sister saying that she doesn’t have to do this if she doesn’t want to… Things have been getting better by now, but God knows what we have been through!
Yeah, I feel the need to comment because as a professional college counselor, this is kinda my area of expertise. Is the way Richard goes about it awful? Yes, completely, for all the reasons Jono said. And I think it says something that Emily is also pissed about how he went about it. However...his comments about the Ivy League system are completely accurate. Aside from an interview with an alum, Rory has NOTHING that would give Harvard a reason to accept her. She has a 5.0 at a fancy prep school, but so do hundreds of other students who apply. She only has two extra curricular activities (the school paper and debate), but she doesn't volunteer, she doesn't do a sport, she doesn't play an instrument, she doesn't belong to a club, and she hasn't done anything special that would make Harvard seriously consider her. However, with that track record and Richard being a celebrated alum and donor, Rory is a shoe in at Yale. Still today, but especially in 2002-2003. Also the comment about Lorelai knowing nothing about Rory's education? Also true. In the next episode, Lorelai is surprised to find out that Rory applied to schools other than Harvard. Because YEAH, no way in hell would someone Type A like Rory not apply to seven or eight fallbacks MINIMUM. Yeah, I can see her applying to a couple of other Ivies, but there are lots of other excellent colleges and universities in New England that she'd definitely get into. NYU, Brandeis, Wellesley...they don't even get mentioned but they're examples of where she should have VISITED and seriously considered. And she'd probably be offered scholarships (which she desperately needs) at state schools. And yes, what a student wears to the interview matters. You don't wear jeans and a sweater, you wear a suit or a nice blouse/skirt. And you PREPARE by knowing what kind of questions they'll ask and having ready answers. Rory is completely right to get angry with Richard as well. I also I agree that Rory's future is more important than Lorelai's pride in this situation. Rory doesn't need to go to Harvard to be successful, but someone booksmart like Rory should go SOMEWHERE. And yeah, as a college counselor, I have a MAJOR problem with the Harvard/Ivy worship in the series. (Also, yes Paris would have gotten in but Rory would not have. I'm still mad at how that played out. Yeah, I know that in order to keep Paris on the show and to make it easy for Rory to always be at home it had to play out that way, but still) Fun fact: They shot this at Pomona College in Claremont, CA, which was across the street from where I went for undergrad
@@CLS-pn7il A woman at the Thanksgiving dinner said, "Chilton wouldn't allow it," not that it was specifically prohibited. They can't *force* kids to apply to more than one school (I went to a very Chilton-ish school in New Orleans and there were a few kids who only applied to LSU). But yeah, you'd need a damn good reason for only applying to one. And "Harvard is my first choice" is not a good reason. I mentioned Type A since Rory would have known that. Chilton would've said so and she would've done that kind of research. So Lorelai not knowing it is...more Rory keeping her in the dark, which is weird. HOWEVER, while we're talking about it, if Harvard was Rory's first choice, she SHOULD have applied Restrictive Early Action. With this, you can submit an application to one school early and find out by mid-December (though you are not contractually obligated to go there). My school had Early Decision 1 (where you only apply there early but if you get in, you are contractually obligated to go there) and ED2 (same principle, but you apply at the same time as everyone else). I did ED1 with my top choice. And because there's usually a smaller applicant pool, it usually helps your chances of getting in.
Very well stated. And there was past precedent of Richard trying to bring up Rory applying to Yale in discussion and Lorelai immediately shutting it down without listening to him about how the system works. Also, I need to complain about how Rory's "backup" options were Yale and Princeton, and we have zero evidence that she applied to any schools beyond those three!
Rory was manipulated from all fronts. Non of this schools were ever her choice. Harvard was Lorelai's choice no matter how much they made it feel like Rory wanted that. Lorelai pushed Rory to fall in love with Harvard cause she wanted to be contrarian to what she knew her parents would want. And they Yale was obviously what Richard and even Emily wanted. She has always done everything to please others, even being the perfect student, getting to Ivy League's, it is all the be seen as the sweet smart kid.
Honest question, I’ve watched the show several times and always love it, but I never get the idea that Harvard was Lorelei’s dream that she put on Rory. Are there examples in the show of where Harvard is Lorelei’s dream? I remembered there’s an episode where Rory hugs her mom and thanks her for not putting her on the “conveyor“ I think that was the term she used.
@@jeffsanders3453 Well, it is said that Rory wanted to go to Harvard since she was 5, at that age unless your parents or another person close to you is talking about things like this all the time, you would not actually be thinking of the college you will go by yourself. At that age when people asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up I would say my mom's career cause that is what I knew.
@@nirakhurana I get that. I guess it could also be interpreted that Rory playing “When I grow up, I wanna be…” and maybe Lorelei told her that in order to succeed, she needs to go to good college and threw out Rory going to Harvard as an idea and from there Harvard stuck on Rory and she just decided that’s what she was going to do.
8:02 the way you describe how this conversation *should* have happened is how my dad always talked to me. He would share something he either really liked or knew a lot about, told me why he thought I would like it, and then asked if I would try it/do it/whatever, while also telling me it was totally fine if I ended up not liking it. 85% of the time, he was completely right and I fell in love with things I wouldn’t have discovered or thought about without him. My love for certain genres, activities I enjoy, where I went to college-all things that started with him, but all things that actually felt like mine rather than my dad living vicariously through me. The context and tone of that initial entry point are SO important
"Our good intentions don't matter if we burn bridges. Our good intentions don't matter if the people that we care about, we fail to understand their perspective and we fail to show respect for them and their ability to choose." I just wanted to write that down, cause that's what I've been up against in my family. Everyone feels they know what's best for me, but they fail to actually know me, and instead of teaching me where I didn't know they would just take over. And now I'm in a position where most of the time I feel like a fish out of water, cause I've been taught not to think for myself. But I've been working hard, and my family hasn't been there to see it (cause I didn't let them, they did burn their bridges)
If it really was about options, Richard would have set up tours for ALL of the options, but it wasn't about that. Would he'd have had that mindset if Rory DIDN'T get into Yale? Absolutely not. He would have thrown a temper tantrum and sued the school for not letting her in.
@@KarlieStarrSings Why would he set up tours for her at other colleges? He went to Yale and knew she would get into Yale because of his connection to the University. He has no connection to other universities.
I actually like the way Emily handled things. Not because she agreed with Richard (because she clearly didn't), but because she had his back in public and then chastised him privately later. She told him he went about it wrong and that he ruined a lovely day and a bonding opportunity with her daughter and granddaughter and, most importantly, lied to her about it as well. Emily was not a good mother in this scene, but she was a good partner.
Not that I’m condoning their actions, but I do like how Emily always tries to present a united front with Richard in front of them. They do it wrongly by it always turning into a shouting match with their daughter, but they (mostly) save the private argument for later.
I never sat down and watched Gilmore Girls, but my wife loves it so I've seen a few episodes and scenes here and there. I never really understood why Lorelai hated her father from what I'd seen. He seemed like a genuine and charismatic character who I thought I would enjoy the company of. I got that she had some past issue with him but thought she just needs to get over herself. I had not seen this episode and now I completely get it.
It is not only this kind of thing but also what Lorelai explains in this episode when is not done his way he will ignore you and be very cold and cruel. I hate that even more than this
Oh I think u should watch Jono’s episode about the diner (I think) where Rory meets with Christopher parents. The trash talk abt how she ruined HIS reputation by being a 16yo pregnant girl is quite harsh too. That being said, I really liked Richard. He was kind and with good intentions behind all this manipulative miscommunication
But I also get why Lorelai had to leave so she could live her own Life without being looked down as the family’s failure. My husband is quite controling too and it taies a lot of energy to step in like « no that’s about me, not you. I get that you are anxious abt my future failure, but it’s my choice and, now that you’ve told me what u think abt it, you have to let me live my experience the way I choose. And It’s even worse with our children as he would want them to live a life where nothing bad happens I’m always struggling not to step in directly when he becomes controling and wait for the children to be in bed 😅
THANK YOU!!!!!!! "It's better to ask forgiveness than permission" was my ex husbands life motto AND his advice to our friends that were getting married. Needless to say, we're divorced now Needless to say we're divorced
I love these video series, your comments and analysis are so useful and objective and really appreciated. I get so triggered watching these scenes and find it so satisfying when Lorelei explodes because to be honest that's my family's dynamic, and I wish we could go to family therapy because although your advice about honest and open communication and taking responsibility it's really hard to do one-sided and with so many ingrained bad habits
The only caveat is that Harvard was Lorelei’s dream for Rory a la season 1, early episodes. So I always felt like this moment was a lil bit influenced by Lorelei feeling like she didn’t win (against her parents). Like, I always felt like Lorelei intentionally chose an Ivy League school that her father (and mother??) didn’t go to.
This is one of the scenes where I loved Lorelai. She handled this very well, she realized that Emily had also been lied to and didn’t take anything out on her and she didn’t let the argument happen in front of Rory. I wish the writers could’ve let Lorelai be like this more
The other issue with what Richard did in this episode, is not just how he handled it but the disrespect or the assumptions he has for not only his daughter but granddaughter as well and his treatment of his wife, his daughter and his granddaughter are just terrible and the disrespect for people who should be his family is Awful, now a lot of people talk about how terrible a person Emily is and people often say that she is the worst one because next to Emily Richard doesn't seem as bad, however it's episodes like these when you realise he's just as bad he's stirring the pot just as much, Emily and Richard are both perfect for each other and also incredibly toxic at the same time, this is something you will see in later episodes especially season four onwards, but the problem is it's being passed down through the generations as we see, Lorelai doesn't want to end up like them but that is bad for Rory and it changes who becomes later, you do need that balance, but it's also understandable because Richard and Emily do some heinous things. As someone who isn't from America, I don't know how specific things like ivy leagues are I know people always talk about them and specifically Yale versus Harvard there's always debates and people who go to Yale really hate people who go to Harvard and it seems like Richard really hates it and he wants his Granddaughter to go to his school he makes a lot of good points when talking to Lorelai the issue is that those points he should've said earlier, sitting down with Lorelai and Rory and saying hey I know you want to go to the school, but I would really rather you went to Yale because it's a great school I had some great experiences there and I think it would be a great place for you because not only is it close to home Which means I get to see you more but it's also meaning that you have a higher chance of getting in, but also if you take this interview it could show Harvard that you're interested in other schools which might make them want you more as well, so there are no downsides to you at least going for an interview, I would love it if you would but I understand if you wouldn't. Now obviously he doesn't sit down with Rory and any of that, he forces it on them and then makes fun of his daughter for what she did with her life, there are moments where I don't even know if Richard even loves Lorelai, we see it from Emily even though she does Henness things and the two of them can be toxic towards each other but it's worse when the two of them are toxic together towards other people, Emily was blindsided in this moment and it's one of those situations where we get to see Richard's true colours like how he treated Lorelai with the whole thing with Christopher's parents in that episode that you also talked about, I think it's another one of those examples where Richard holds status and the opinions of others higher than his family and he might love Lorelai but he does a really crappy way of showing it, yes she got pregnant and a young age and yes a lot of that was her fault but a lot of it was an accident and not something that she could really stop from happening, her running away was bad and hurt her family but that was a long time ago and they still hold grudges for it which again or somewhat understandable but the way he goes about it attacking her in this moment saying that you wouldn't understand this because you never went to an Ivy League you never even graduated high school or went to college like saying those things to your daughter is not okay and the fact that Emily just let him say it also is telling of her and who she is, as you'll see in later seasons she does some really horrendous stuff, one of the things I hate about Richard and his example of Yale is that we find out in later seasons that he threw one of his roommates out the window so many times that he dropped out of Yale he also laughed about that, as well as cheated on his girlfriend with Emily and that's how they got together so he clearly has some rose coloured glasses when it comes to his time at Yale and his experience there he thinks it was so great and so amazing because well in his eyes it was and I want to say that at least this is a much better person I think that our experiences do changes and poor Rory does change in later seasons but at least right now she is nothing like her grandfather and that privilege and that money and status symbol that they care so much about isn't really something she cares about yet and I think that for Richard it's more about a point of pride he can go and laugh with his friends at the club, saying oh my granddaughter got into this amazing school it used to be my school like she's following in my footsteps it's amazing, we also find out that when Lorelai was little before she got pregnant, she wanted to go to yell so I feel like and we do see this in later seasons as well, Rory is like the daughter that Emily and Richard never had they treat her like the little sister rather than the granddaughter, they treat her like their redo or they're sick and chance at getting it right this time she's not gonna drop out of high school, she's not gonna get pregnant you know all that kind of stuff they want her to go to a good school and we saw in the pilot episode of the show, that this is something that Laura is afraid of as well she wants Rory to have all the experiences she never got to, but I feel like she handles it differently to her parents and again this is all just my opinion and speculation from watching the entire show, as you go along you might have different opinions, but I think that together Emily and Richard are perfect for each other but they're also toxic together and toxic for each other, which again is something you'll see later on, Richard doesn't consult Emily all the time about certain things he wants to do and vice versa, but they also treat others to the point where sometimes I genuinely don't know if they're just horrible people who only care about their daughter or granddaughters happiness when it benefits them, they want Lorelai to date someone wealthy they want her to have a good life but not at the expensive status and their lives they need her to make them look good because if they look bad then that's disrespect on the Gilmore name and it's a point of pride would be so prideful if Rory would go to his university he'd be able to tell all his friends it would be a symbol of status for him and he doesn't really consider the feelings of his daughter or granddaughter which is very sad, again this is just my opinion I could be reading it wrong but that was always the location I got is that Richard doesn't seem as bad when he's next to Emily but on his own he can be both toxic towards his wife and toxic towards others in ways that affect them, I think Lorelai really takes what her dad says about her and her life to heart and while she may not care about what her parents think of her you can tell that it hurts when he treats her that way, I think he's disappointed in what happened with her and the fact that she wanted to go to his school and she wanted to do all these things, but then she in his eyes through it all away when she got pregnant, and rather than supporting her through that pregnancy and still helping her to get into an Ivy League or a college altogether and graduate high school, instead of forcing her and saying will help with this stuff instead it was all about you disappointed us you are disappointment driving her to leave and for them to now turn around and you know blame her for things that were their fault that's a separate issue, but again the way he handles the situation both with his daughter and granddaughter is really gross.
I went back and watched what you linked as “THE dinner fight.” I had already seen that one. You are in for a treat, sir, when you see the REAL dinner fight later in the series. Lol
Thank you so much for your always amazing insights!!! I’m loving your comments on Gilmore Girls. I find your comments always so informative on family dynamics especially in complicated families! Now in this episode, Richard is insufferable: he doesn’t participate in day to day life of the family, and then expects everything to still follow what je wants. And while he is entirely right in his intentions (he makes excellent points), this doesn’t justify how he made this happen. To be honest, I think Emily (for all her faults) is between a rock and a hard place. She doesn’t want to undermine Richard before their daughter but she also shows so well how betrayed she feels.
I think Richard was wrong in how he went about this. He should have met with Rory on her own and told her how much it meant to him for her to meet the Dean at Yale. Because Rory LOVES her grandfather, she would have agreed to the meeting when she was prepared for it. He didn’t need to manipulate Rory. HOWEVER, Richard was right in A LOT of what he said in this scene. Rory not APPLYING to Yale at all is ridiculous. She LIVES IN CT, has a Yale connection and had no guarantee of getting into Harvard. She needed to have Yale as a backup. Notice that Lorelai didn’t just have a problem with Rory potentially going to Yale, but she didn’t even want Rory TO APPLY! That’s crazy. Rory also didn’t know that she didn’t want to go to Yale. She just decided on Harvard without looking into options. You have to wonder why Lorelai would be okay with Rory blindly choosing a school as a little child and having her stick with that singular decision for the rest of her life. Lorelai wouldn’t have allowed Richard to talk Rory into meeting with the Dean (hence, why I said he should have met with Rory alone). And Rory’s decision to go to Harvard and only Harvard is influenced by Lorelai and Lorelai’s disdain of Yale simply because her parents went there! It’s like Lorelai is living vicariously through Rory. A lot of what Richard said was TRUE! I still think the way he went about it was wrong but I also see his point of view.
@@MadYunie00 That was after this episode though. But that does feed into my point that Rory couldn’t share with her mom that she applied to Yale because she knew her mom would be upset. It’s about Lorelai and what she wants more than Rory and Richard called her out on it.
When you finish the series you'll see that Harvard was Lorelei's dream, she wasn't listening to what her daughter wanted, she was using her as a do over
It's true about how some habits can creep into home life without the person being aware. My mom was an elementary school teacher for over 20 years, and she had a tendency to "dumb down" and over-explain things to us kids even after we were basically grown-ups. She meant well, but it made her hard to talk to.
I also was bothered by the stunt that her grandfather pulled at Yale. Also, Rory was under a lot of pressure when deciding where to go to school. My parents never pressured me and my siblings into choosing a school. They would suggest where to apply based on our interests, but they never decided for us. It was up to us. Being trained as physicians, my parents never pressured us to pursue medical careers or medical school. My dad thought I would make a good doctor or nurse, but when I told him I was not interested, he didn't push it any further. They always told us we must be passionate and work hard whatever we decide to do. Passion and hard work were more important to my parents. They wanted us to be happy.
I had something similar happen to me, but with my dad instead. I did end up going to the university of his choosing (also the major) and in the end, when I graduated, he wasn’t even there for the commencement ceremony. Sometimes what matters the most to someone is being able to control/being always right, even if the intentions start from a good place.
10:22 this was some thing that my late father and I never saw eye to eye on. He was an officer in the Marine Corps, and of course, was used to telling his Marines to jump, and they say how high. He would then get home and tell me to jump, and I would ask why, and he would take that as me refusing to do as I was told. He never understood that it wasn’t that I was refusing to jump, I just wanted to know why. What was the purpose of the jump?
Does Richard suck for this? Yep, but Lorelai has a history of turning down options for Rory simply because it’s what her parents would want. Applying to more than one college is the smarter option. Plus in a later episode Lorelai finds out that Rory was required to apply to multiple colleges by her school. You can’t put all your eggs in one basket because thousands of kids apply to Ivy universities a year and you can’t bank on your kid getting in to their dream school. Lorelai digging her heels in about Harvard isn’t in Rory’s best interest either it’s in her own because if Rory chooses Yale she sees it (at least at this point in the series) as Richard and Emily winning. My opinion is the only person with Rory’s best interest at heart is Rory in this episode is Rory.
I love your insight here. Would there be a possibility to do a Gilmore girls episode the other way around? Where Lorelai was out of line with her parents?
Hi Jono, can you please do an analysis of Lorelei’s boyfriends each season too? I don’t recall seeing something like that for Christopher or Max unless I missed it. Thank you for watching the series, I enjoyed it enough to binge this playlist!
Really? Seems to me that Rory wanted to be a Gilmore, she loved that world and that lifestyle. And Lorelei too saw Rory as her second chance, Harvard was her dream not Rory's
These "Gets Therapized" videos are great. Please can you widen your scope of TV and film. More Buffy if possible as there are several major relationships there. What about the relationships on Firefly? Other great shows and movies that your audience may have watched (I haven't seen much Gilmore Girls). Many thanks for all your content-it is good to learn about how to deal with things healthily; in my family my dad didn't like arguing so all conflicts were ignored rather than either blowing up or being dealt with.
Yeah, this episode made me so sad and angry. It also brought back memories of trying to get a taxi to the train station after interviewing at Yale. I called Information, just like Lorelei, and asked for the name of a cab company, just like Lorelei. But the operator wasnt allowed to give out names of businesses, so I ended up getting the number from a Yale staff member. ☺️
"Whenever you try to control, you hurt people and you trigger resentment." ISTG, I want that on a shirt so I can buy two of them and mail them to my husband's parents.
because she wants to be wrong about it. so she lets herself think this will be different. I think this especially happens when it involves Rory. I'm not an expert, though, so I could be wrong.
One thing I just realized as an adult and married woman: this is such an amazing example of Emily being a good spouse. She’s pissed as hell at Richard, but she still supports the positive points in why Richard did what he did (albeit badly and in a toxic way) and she waits to take up her issues with him until after the girls are gone and (presumably) until they got home. It’s a very good example of supporting your spouse while not necessarily agreeing with them and saving your disagreement until it’s private. As Emily said: that’s between you and your spouse. And as parents, you don’t want to fight in front of your kids either. You don’t want your kids to feel like they need to choose sides. It’s a good example of always being a team and presenting a united front, even when you do not agree with everything.
Yeah one the rare times I’m mad at Richard. On the bright side I’m not that mad at Emily which is weird because I usually get more mad her! Can’t wait to see more!
Not justifying Richard's actions here, but is it usual for students to apply for just one university in the States? My school (in the UK) made us apply to five institutions. It's understandable if they didn't want her to apply to Yale, but their attitude of "Harvard or nothing" with no alternatives was so weird to me.
As someone from the US, no it’s not normal to not have several backups, especially if you’re aiming for an Ivy League school. Even though Lorelei didn’t go to a four-year college, it feels ridiculous that she wouldn’t know that either.
I don't know anyone who wanted to go to college who didn't apply to several, I think I applied to 3 or 4. That's very normal in the US. I know several people who applied to many schools, including ivy league schools, and waited to see who would offer them the best scholarships before choosing. Maybe unsurprisingly, none of them chose an ivy league. A state school will offer a way better scholarship and much cheaper tuition.
Other shows, I would like you to check out is : DEXTER - His personality being a serial killer killing killers and something else by dad - His relationship with Rita GREYS ANATOMY - There is SO SO much to check out! SO many people love the main couple, Derek and Meredith! please tell the fans for one thing that Derek and Meredith are NOT so perfect!! That he is REALLY TOXIC for one thing!! I bet you will agree and have MANY insights to their relationship!!
Love this series. I've been watching 'Everybody Loves Raymond' recently and was wondering if you can cover the show, in particular, episode 11 in season 2. It would be interesting to get your take on relationships with overbearing parents-in-law.
The only nuance I’d add is Rory’s people pleasing tendency that seems to stem from wanting to be liked. Even Harvard is this thing that she thought of as a kid and when her mom approved of it, she felt like ok this is what I have to do, because there’s a history & I don’t want to disappoint my mom.
I feel like Emily and Richard treat Lorelai like a child because they lost her when she was a child. They’re incapable of viewing her as a mother, let alone an independent woman, because they only view her through the lens of a petulant child that left them and reject everything they stand for (except when she comes to them for lots of money…) and they take that extremely personally and refuse to see her side of things because they think they’re completely in the right. I so wish the series had shown moments of growth between Lorelai and her parents, but I guess this is a more accurate, real life depiction of two parties who have no clue how to draw boundaries and have healthy conversation lol
This episode is a great remeinder you cant control you're kids future. You have to let them decide what they want and guide them. Kids aren't a mini versions of their grandparents or parentx. They are thier own person with thier own wants and needs
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Richard was for the most part, less manipulative than Emily, but jeez, when he was awful, he was really bad, to the point of making Emily angry.
I don't think he's less manipulative. He just lets Emily do it for him, some of the time.
He's a bully just as much
@@HuntingVioletsagree
When EMILY is shook by someone's manipulation, you know it's bad
she's just upset because she didn't know lol
Rory summed it up best, “If you would have asked me, I would have done it just because you asked.”
Yes so true! It's like she grew up learning how to make decisions based on others' opinions, manipulation and morals, that's why later on, some of her decisions are so shocking because she hasn't formed her own moral compass in which she makes decisions.
I hadn't heard that perspective before but now I relate to it so much, I don't think I've been manipulated but the part about trying to do what others ask of you preventing you to form your own moral conpass.
@@YedidahMVO I agree, it's happened to me, I people please a lot and so now as an adult slowly learning how to parent myself.
Episodes like this are a fun reminder that Lorelai isn't just paranoid. Every time she lets her guard down with Emily and Richard, they go behind her back and or manipulate her. And it really sucks that decades later they keep throwing that Lorelai didn't go to college in her face.
Then she graduated from community college by herself and they just...forgot that detail?
@@kelliehorn1082 they probably didn't consider it real college
@@anaiyahluther For real!
@@anaiyahlutherbut it is such a sweet moment when she graduates and Emily looks at her with tears in her eyes ❤
Children don't lie about this stuff, practically EVER!! I'm the same with my parents, I know it's super unsafe to depend on them, I feel and know it in my bones. There's no loyalty. Even if from an outside perspective people are like "why don't you just ask your parents? They're so nice!!"
Can we also please talk about Richard’s complete inability and total lack of desire to stand up for his WIFE in the face of blatant disrespect from his mother? His mother’s behavior was never “playful” or “done out of love”, she was downright terrible to Emily and Richard laughed along with her sometimes, in front of Emily!!
Because to him, her mom was always right, she was a Gilmore, like a real Gilmore 😂.
Fr
And Emily does exactly the same to her own daughter every single fight they have but everyone turns round and says Lorelai is childish and immature . Rory is Lorelai's child and Lorelai is bringing her up not the grandparents. When Rory moves in with her grandparents and they can't control Rory once again Lorelai is blamed by everyone . Rory is Lorelai's child she has the right to bring her up how she wants
5:35 "Richard has this mentality of either you agree with me, or you are ridiculous." As a person raised by exactly that type of father, hearing you talk about this was very appreciated. Thank you.
YEP. My dad was a textbook narcissist and this was his perspective on everything in life.
Me too. I was raised by my grandpa and this is him exactly.
Same.
THIS. SO relatable. Even happened with college the exact same way too. This was both very triggering and very healing.
Same. That hit home.
Richard believes that Rory is smart, but he infantilizes her. He doesn’t trust her to make her own decisions “because she’s a child.” Instead of respecting her as a young adult making her OWN decisions about her future, he tries to control her. Instead of respecting her own decisions, he wants her to do what HE thinks is best. It is very infuriating.
I feel like it's in part coz of what happened with lorelai leaving them. Not that it's her fault but like it seems like he hasn't resolved anything about it and is sorta pushing his ideal version of that situation onto rory. Almost as if he feels like now he has his ideal daughter/granddaughter to get what he wants since rorys more studious and introverted and less "rebellious" than lorelai was at that age.
What Rory said to Richard afterwards was soooo satisfying!
It makes me incredibly sad how their trip to Yale up to this point was so beautiful! It felt like a restorative experience - Lorelei and Emily were getting along well, Emily and Richard were being romantic, sharing experiences from their youth Rory and Lorelei didn't know about. And then this. Manipulation at its finest.
5:34 - THANK YOU
I've seen so many people say (wrongly) that Lorelai was *forcing* Rory to go to Harvard. When it's so obvious that Lorelai wants Rory to pursue her dreams (no matter what they are) cuz her parents were so dismissive of her own wants and dreams. Later when Rory does want to go to Yale, Lorelai gets upset *because* of this trip and how manipulative she knows her parents can be. But as soon as she sees Rory's pro-con lists and realizes that Rory put a lot of thought into her decision, she backs Rory up 100%.
So long as it's something Rory *actually* wants and is good for her, Lorelai will always support her daughter's decisions.
There's probably a part of Lorelai that steered Rory away from Yale, at least, and encouraged other schools, including Harvard. But once Rory chose a school, Lorelai would have encouraged it, no matter what school it was.
Attempting to bulldoze anyone's autonomy is never okay regardless of intentions this could and should have been handled differently
My Mom tried to get me to enlist in the Air Force with my brother. I said no, so I was the bad guy, a trickster as she called me. I didn't enlist, but the damage is done.
@@Kinglore2000😢
Jono's face throughout every scene was also my face when I first saw this. Including the breathing exercises, angry grunts, looking up to the sky for patience, and threats LMAO. I'm here for angry Jono. It's so damn enjoyable and fascinating to see haha.
And yet, a lot of people don't understand why Rory ended up as she did in "A year in the life" ... She seems to have always been guided by others, not her own convictions. Even her Harvard dream, often lauded as her own aspiration, was largely influenced by Lorelai. It's clear that Rory was raised to please, rather than to pursue her authentic self!
I agree. As resistant as Lorelai was to her parents' world, she must have been steering Rory toward 'NOT YALE' from a young age. "Rory has her own mind..." Does she though? Was she really even into journalism? Why on earth did she not find a way to get some work experience for the SH Gazette before the age of 30? I like the way she told Richard off here though.
@@sylviefreeze I agree 100%. Journalism, despite her initial enthusiasm, was more about fitting into a prestigious societal mold than a true passion. Her strengths in leadership and intellectual pursuits are evident, as demonstrated at Yale Newspaper and during her work with Mitchum. Perhaps roles like a professor or writer, which allow for intellectual depth, would have been more fulfilling for her. P.S: I also loved her retort to Richard.💓😅
Harvard was 100% Lorelei's dream
"Mom, I'm pregnant."
@@Stargaze_17 To which Richard would respond, "See? She turned out just like you! Just what you wanted to avoid!" And so the cycle begins all over again.
The funny thing here is that Lorelai encouraged Rory to go to Chilton, even though it was a school that Richard and Emily approved of. This blows his entire argument about her motivations out of the water. None of them were perfect by any means, but Lorelai really only wanted to do right by Rory and what she wanted. Even Emily was angry on this one, which really says something.
Richard clearly forgot that he attended his daughter's community COLLEGE graduation. Community college is college. His daughter is a college graduate.
💯
If not his decision it doesn't count.
@@harmanlesli For real 🤦♀️
People such as Richard and Emily wouldn’t see that as a “real college”
My parents consider community College to be a "type of trade school", and he is probably similar. It's a stupid sentiment, but it's especially common to hear from older generations. Those same people view a GED as not having a diploma (even if you drop out to get the GED so you can go to a university before you'd graduate otherwise). It's wild how some nitpick these things but I get the impression he is the type to consider Lorelai's degree as "lesser" than graduating from Yale. Then again, he'd probably call Harvard a trade school 🙄
I totally agree with you. 100%. Rory has nothing against going to Yale. Yes, Harvard is her dream, but even she told her grandfather that she would have taken the interview if he'd asked in the first place instead of just dropping it on her. It shows she was willing to look into other schools because it's good to have back ups! While Richard and Emily made great points, I agree that they should have handle the situations better. It was the first time where I saw Lorelai not fully using the "you tried to control me, and when you couldn't, you pushed me away" card. She was thinking more about what Rory wanted and hated how her parents pulled the same BS on Rory that was pulled on her as a kid. Not to mention how Richard and Emily were basically trying to use Rory as some sort of replacement for their daughter in some ways. I love how the actors for Richard and Emily played these roles so well that they got me ticked off at the characters, lol. God, they had a great cast for this show.
THANK YOU! “Ask for forgiveness, not permission” is my ex-husband’s favorite saying, and then he would (and still does) act like I’m the AH for refusing to forgive him when he lies to me and goes behind my back on issues involving my kids. I have always thought that was an nothing but a jerk’s way of handling things, and I appreciate you confirming that I am right and he is the AH.
It’s part of the reason I have such a big chip on my shoulder regarding the word “forgiveness.”
Halsey has a really cool song about this "The Tradition"
I don't think I've ever seen this level of unhinged anger from Jono (except maybe in the Twilight episodes) but I'm totally here for it. Richard and Emily were so out of line here.
Richard could have brought up why he thinks that Yale would be a good option for Rory and said: "The Dean is a personal friend of mine, I can arrange an interview with him for you if you want one." This manipulative behaviour will in the end make people stop trusting him.
& it grosses me out how shamelessly he wants to take advantage of nepotism & hand things to Rory at the expense of regular hardworking students
The system is unfair, but it is difficult to blame people for getting the best for their family members. The system should be reformed.
I think Lorelai was resistant to Yale, not just because Rory had always wanted to go to Harvard but also because Richard went there and wanted Rory to as well. I think Richard was right about that but not for the reason he thinks. I don’t think it’s pettiness, I think Lorelai feels genuine anxiety and fear when her parents try to control Rory’s life the way they tried to do with her, which I think is understandable. Lorelai is far from perfect and very immature but I always understand her emotional reactions when it comes to her parents because of what she’s gone through with them. However, even without the emotional baggage, Richard would have been way out of line for this
And yet she controlled Rory's life, Harvard was her dream, she imposed it on Rory since she was a toddler
@@radhiadeedou8286 Agreed! But I like how later she kinda acknowledges it and supports Rory going to Yale. Richard and Emily really struggle with that kind of change and self awareness.
Edited for spelling
As a long-time lover of the show, I would advise you to "strap in" for the future episodes! No spoilers, I'm just really enjoying your reactions and analysis. 👍
Please make more of these!! I had very similar grandparents (without the bank accounts or connections to back their attitudes up) and it helps so much to have these two kinda picked apart. I no longer have contact with my grandparents because of their treatment of me, my mom and my sister, so its truly invaluable to me personally to have this resource!
Full agree, Richard could have gotten the result he wanted simply by asking Rory to consider Yale as an possibility (or backup to Harvard) and to take a tour/meeting. She adores him and would have done it just to make him happy. She also could have gone in prepared and not been blindsided with a huge interview opportunity. Loralie probably would not like it, but she would have (i think) understood the value of having a Yale option if it was brought up in a less deceptive way. I do find it a bit naive on the part of Rory and Loralie that they seemingly never considered that Rory would/should have to consider alternates/backups with such a competitive university choice. Harvard can be the dream and top choice, but honestly they should have been talking about Yale, Princeton, etc since day one as well.
well rory did apply to other ivy league schools without telling lorelei
@@karenjones9387 unless i messed up my timeline, that was after this incident.also, like i said, it should have been talked about since day one along with harvard - which is clearly wasn't.
Richard did bring up applying to Yale in conversation when he visited Stars Hollow for the day (not the most jovial situation, but still not deceptive), and Lorelai did not listen to what he had to say about how the system works. Richard was out of line in this situation, but I do think Lorelai's adamant opposition to any consideration of Yale was a serious and established obstacle.
“we see this in military families right” OUCH YOU’RE SO RIGHT…
I feel this deeply, I mean, my dad making the big decisions, my mom taking his side and me being the one who steps between them for my younger sister saying that she doesn’t have to do this if she doesn’t want to… Things have been getting better by now, but God knows what we have been through!
Yeah, I feel the need to comment because as a professional college counselor, this is kinda my area of expertise. Is the way Richard goes about it awful? Yes, completely, for all the reasons Jono said. And I think it says something that Emily is also pissed about how he went about it. However...his comments about the Ivy League system are completely accurate. Aside from an interview with an alum, Rory has NOTHING that would give Harvard a reason to accept her. She has a 5.0 at a fancy prep school, but so do hundreds of other students who apply. She only has two extra curricular activities (the school paper and debate), but she doesn't volunteer, she doesn't do a sport, she doesn't play an instrument, she doesn't belong to a club, and she hasn't done anything special that would make Harvard seriously consider her. However, with that track record and Richard being a celebrated alum and donor, Rory is a shoe in at Yale. Still today, but especially in 2002-2003.
Also the comment about Lorelai knowing nothing about Rory's education? Also true. In the next episode, Lorelai is surprised to find out that Rory applied to schools other than Harvard. Because YEAH, no way in hell would someone Type A like Rory not apply to seven or eight fallbacks MINIMUM. Yeah, I can see her applying to a couple of other Ivies, but there are lots of other excellent colleges and universities in New England that she'd definitely get into. NYU, Brandeis, Wellesley...they don't even get mentioned but they're examples of where she should have VISITED and seriously considered. And she'd probably be offered scholarships (which she desperately needs) at state schools.
And yes, what a student wears to the interview matters. You don't wear jeans and a sweater, you wear a suit or a nice blouse/skirt. And you PREPARE by knowing what kind of questions they'll ask and having ready answers. Rory is completely right to get angry with Richard as well.
I also I agree that Rory's future is more important than Lorelai's pride in this situation. Rory doesn't need to go to Harvard to be successful, but someone booksmart like Rory should go SOMEWHERE.
And yeah, as a college counselor, I have a MAJOR problem with the Harvard/Ivy worship in the series. (Also, yes Paris would have gotten in but Rory would not have. I'm still mad at how that played out. Yeah, I know that in order to keep Paris on the show and to make it easy for Rory to always be at home it had to play out that way, but still)
Fun fact: They shot this at Pomona College in Claremont, CA, which was across the street from where I went for undergrad
It wasn't just Rory's type A ness, she said in the ep Chilton required that they applied to more than 1 school
@@CLS-pn7il A woman at the Thanksgiving dinner said, "Chilton wouldn't allow it," not that it was specifically prohibited. They can't *force* kids to apply to more than one school (I went to a very Chilton-ish school in New Orleans and there were a few kids who only applied to LSU). But yeah, you'd need a damn good reason for only applying to one. And "Harvard is my first choice" is not a good reason.
I mentioned Type A since Rory would have known that. Chilton would've said so and she would've done that kind of research. So Lorelai not knowing it is...more Rory keeping her in the dark, which is weird.
HOWEVER, while we're talking about it, if Harvard was Rory's first choice, she SHOULD have applied Restrictive Early Action. With this, you can submit an application to one school early and find out by mid-December (though you are not contractually obligated to go there). My school had Early Decision 1 (where you only apply there early but if you get in, you are contractually obligated to go there) and ED2 (same principle, but you apply at the same time as everyone else). I did ED1 with my top choice. And because there's usually a smaller applicant pool, it usually helps your chances of getting in.
Very well stated. And there was past precedent of Richard trying to bring up Rory applying to Yale in discussion and Lorelai immediately shutting it down without listening to him about how the system works.
Also, I need to complain about how Rory's "backup" options were Yale and Princeton, and we have zero evidence that she applied to any schools beyond those three!
Rory was manipulated from all fronts. Non of this schools were ever her choice. Harvard was Lorelai's choice no matter how much they made it feel like Rory wanted that. Lorelai pushed Rory to fall in love with Harvard cause she wanted to be contrarian to what she knew her parents would want. And they Yale was obviously what Richard and even Emily wanted. She has always done everything to please others, even being the perfect student, getting to Ivy League's, it is all the be seen as the sweet smart kid.
Absolutely agree
Honest question, I’ve watched the show several times and always love it, but I never get the idea that Harvard was Lorelei’s dream that she put on Rory. Are there examples in the show of where Harvard is Lorelei’s dream? I remembered there’s an episode where Rory hugs her mom and thanks her for not putting her on the “conveyor“ I think that was the term she used.
@@jeffsanders3453 Well, it is said that Rory wanted to go to Harvard since she was 5, at that age unless your parents or another person close to you is talking about things like this all the time, you would not actually be thinking of the college you will go by yourself. At that age when people asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up I would say my mom's career cause that is what I knew.
@@nirakhurana I get that. I guess it could also be interpreted that Rory playing “When I grow up, I wanna be…” and maybe Lorelei told her that in order to succeed, she needs to go to good college and threw out Rory going to Harvard as an idea and from there Harvard stuck on Rory and she just decided that’s what she was going to do.
8:02 the way you describe how this conversation *should* have happened is how my dad always talked to me. He would share something he either really liked or knew a lot about, told me why he thought I would like it, and then asked if I would try it/do it/whatever, while also telling me it was totally fine if I ended up not liking it. 85% of the time, he was completely right and I fell in love with things I wouldn’t have discovered or thought about without him. My love for certain genres, activities I enjoy, where I went to college-all things that started with him, but all things that actually felt like mine rather than my dad living vicariously through me. The context and tone of that initial entry point are SO important
"Our good intentions don't matter if we burn bridges. Our good intentions don't matter if the people that we care about, we fail to understand their perspective and we fail to show respect for them and their ability to choose." I just wanted to write that down, cause that's what I've been up against in my family. Everyone feels they know what's best for me, but they fail to actually know me, and instead of teaching me where I didn't know they would just take over. And now I'm in a position where most of the time I feel like a fish out of water, cause I've been taught not to think for myself. But I've been working hard, and my family hasn't been there to see it (cause I didn't let them, they did burn their bridges)
You are so right my mother made bad choices for me and my brother when we were kids it's caused problems for are relationship
Looking forward to when you watch future 'atomic' dinner scenes. There is a dinner episode coming up titled "Tick Tick Boom". :)
If it really was about options, Richard would have set up tours for ALL of the options, but it wasn't about that. Would he'd have had that mindset if Rory DIDN'T get into Yale? Absolutely not. He would have thrown a temper tantrum and sued the school for not letting her in.
@@KarlieStarrSings Why would he set up tours for her at other colleges? He went to Yale and knew she would get into Yale because of his connection to the University. He has no connection to other universities.
My grandpa had this energy when I was younger. He’s softened a lot in his old age.
I actually like the way Emily handled things. Not because she agreed with Richard (because she clearly didn't), but because she had his back in public and then chastised him privately later. She told him he went about it wrong and that he ruined a lovely day and a bonding opportunity with her daughter and granddaughter and, most importantly, lied to her about it as well. Emily was not a good mother in this scene, but she was a good partner.
Agreed. Despite Emily and Richard's flaws as parents, they were great partners to each other.
Not that I’m condoning their actions, but I do like how Emily always tries to present a united front with Richard in front of them. They do it wrongly by it always turning into a shouting match with their daughter, but they (mostly) save the private argument for later.
I really hope there will be a Lane and her Mother Episode at one point
I would LOVE that.
Your mention of military families' habits is making me yearn for a Cinema Therapy tackles The Sound of Music (and how not to handle grief)
I never sat down and watched Gilmore Girls, but my wife loves it so I've seen a few episodes and scenes here and there. I never really understood why Lorelai hated her father from what I'd seen. He seemed like a genuine and charismatic character who I thought I would enjoy the company of. I got that she had some past issue with him but thought she just needs to get over herself. I had not seen this episode and now I completely get it.
It is not only this kind of thing but also what Lorelai explains in this episode when is not done his way he will ignore you and be very cold and cruel. I hate that even more than this
Oh I think u should watch Jono’s episode about the diner (I think) where Rory meets with Christopher parents. The trash talk abt how she ruined HIS reputation by being a 16yo pregnant girl is quite harsh too. That being said, I really liked Richard. He was kind and with good intentions behind all this manipulative miscommunication
But I also get why Lorelai had to leave so she could live her own Life without being looked down as the family’s failure. My husband is quite controling too and it taies a lot of energy to step in like « no that’s about me, not you. I get that you are anxious abt my future failure, but it’s my choice and, now that you’ve told me what u think abt it, you have to let me live my experience the way I choose. And It’s even worse with our children as he would want them to live a life where nothing bad happens I’m always struggling not to step in directly when he becomes controling and wait for the children to be in bed 😅
THANK YOU!!!!!!!
"It's better to ask forgiveness than permission"
was my ex husbands life motto AND his advice to our friends that were getting married.
Needless to say, we're divorced now
Needless to say we're divorced
I love these video series, your comments and analysis are so useful and objective and really appreciated. I get so triggered watching these scenes and find it so satisfying when Lorelei explodes because to be honest that's my family's dynamic, and I wish we could go to family therapy because although your advice about honest and open communication and taking responsibility it's really hard to do one-sided and with so many ingrained bad habits
Kelly Bishop (who plays Emily Gilmore, the grandmother) wrote a book called "The Third Gilmore Girl." It's on my TBR list.
The only caveat is that Harvard was Lorelei’s dream for Rory a la season 1, early episodes. So I always felt like this moment was a lil bit influenced by Lorelei feeling like she didn’t win (against her parents). Like, I always felt like Lorelei intentionally chose an Ivy League school that her father (and mother??) didn’t go to.
Balled up socks, Jonno! You can throw them at the TV without damaging it. No need for kicking. ;)
But you might need a whole basket full for drama like this 😉
This is one of the scenes where I loved Lorelai. She handled this very well, she realized that Emily had also been lied to and didn’t take anything out on her and she didn’t let the argument happen in front of Rory.
I wish the writers could’ve let Lorelai be like this more
The other issue with what Richard did in this episode, is not just how he handled it but the disrespect or the assumptions he has for not only his daughter but granddaughter as well and his treatment of his wife, his daughter and his granddaughter are just terrible and the disrespect for people who should be his family is Awful, now a lot of people talk about how terrible a person Emily is and people often say that she is the worst one because next to Emily Richard doesn't seem as bad, however it's episodes like these when you realise he's just as bad he's stirring the pot just as much, Emily and Richard are both perfect for each other and also incredibly toxic at the same time, this is something you will see in later episodes especially season four onwards, but the problem is it's being passed down through the generations as we see, Lorelai doesn't want to end up like them but that is bad for Rory and it changes who becomes later, you do need that balance, but it's also understandable because Richard and Emily do some heinous things.
As someone who isn't from America, I don't know how specific things like ivy leagues are I know people always talk about them and specifically Yale versus Harvard there's always debates and people who go to Yale really hate people who go to Harvard and it seems like Richard really hates it and he wants his Granddaughter to go to his school he makes a lot of good points when talking to Lorelai the issue is that those points he should've said earlier, sitting down with Lorelai and Rory and saying hey I know you want to go to the school, but I would really rather you went to Yale because it's a great school I had some great experiences there and I think it would be a great place for you because not only is it close to home Which means I get to see you more but it's also meaning that you have a higher chance of getting in, but also if you take this interview it could show Harvard that you're interested in other schools which might make them want you more as well, so there are no downsides to you at least going for an interview, I would love it if you would but I understand if you wouldn't. Now obviously he doesn't sit down with Rory and any of that, he forces it on them and then makes fun of his daughter for what she did with her life, there are moments where I don't even know if Richard even loves Lorelai, we see it from Emily even though she does Henness things and the two of them can be toxic towards each other but it's worse when the two of them are toxic together towards other people, Emily was blindsided in this moment and it's one of those situations where we get to see Richard's true colours like how he treated Lorelai with the whole thing with Christopher's parents in that episode that you also talked about, I think it's another one of those examples where Richard holds status and the opinions of others higher than his family and he might love Lorelai but he does a really crappy way of showing it, yes she got pregnant and a young age and yes a lot of that was her fault but a lot of it was an accident and not something that she could really stop from happening, her running away was bad and hurt her family but that was a long time ago and they still hold grudges for it which again or somewhat understandable but the way he goes about it attacking her in this moment saying that you wouldn't understand this because you never went to an Ivy League you never even graduated high school or went to college like saying those things to your daughter is not okay and the fact that Emily just let him say it also is telling of her and who she is, as you'll see in later seasons she does some really horrendous stuff, one of the things I hate about Richard and his example of Yale is that we find out in later seasons that he threw one of his roommates out the window so many times that he dropped out of Yale he also laughed about that, as well as cheated on his girlfriend with Emily and that's how they got together so he clearly has some rose coloured glasses when it comes to his time at Yale and his experience there he thinks it was so great and so amazing because well in his eyes it was and I want to say that at least this is a much better person I think that our experiences do changes and poor Rory does change in later seasons but at least right now she is nothing like her grandfather and that privilege and that money and status symbol that they care so much about isn't really something she cares about yet and I think that for Richard it's more about a point of pride he can go and laugh with his friends at the club, saying oh my granddaughter got into this amazing school it used to be my school like she's following in my footsteps it's amazing, we also find out that when Lorelai was little before she got pregnant, she wanted to go to yell so I feel like and we do see this in later seasons as well, Rory is like the daughter that Emily and Richard never had they treat her like the little sister rather than the granddaughter, they treat her like their redo or they're sick and chance at getting it right this time she's not gonna drop out of high school, she's not gonna get pregnant you know all that kind of stuff they want her to go to a good school and we saw in the pilot episode of the show, that this is something that Laura is afraid of as well she wants Rory to have all the experiences she never got to, but I feel like she handles it differently to her parents and again this is all just my opinion and speculation from watching the entire show, as you go along you might have different opinions, but I think that together Emily and Richard are perfect for each other but they're also toxic together and toxic for each other, which again is something you'll see later on, Richard doesn't consult Emily all the time about certain things he wants to do and vice versa, but they also treat others to the point where sometimes I genuinely don't know if they're just horrible people who only care about their daughter or granddaughters happiness when it benefits them, they want Lorelai to date someone wealthy they want her to have a good life but not at the expensive status and their lives they need her to make them look good because if they look bad then that's disrespect on the Gilmore name and it's a point of pride would be so prideful if Rory would go to his university he'd be able to tell all his friends it would be a symbol of status for him and he doesn't really consider the feelings of his daughter or granddaughter which is very sad, again this is just my opinion I could be reading it wrong but that was always the location I got is that Richard doesn't seem as bad when he's next to Emily but on his own he can be both toxic towards his wife and toxic towards others in ways that affect them, I think Lorelai really takes what her dad says about her and her life to heart and while she may not care about what her parents think of her you can tell that it hurts when he treats her that way, I think he's disappointed in what happened with her and the fact that she wanted to go to his school and she wanted to do all these things, but then she in his eyes through it all away when she got pregnant, and rather than supporting her through that pregnancy and still helping her to get into an Ivy League or a college altogether and graduate high school, instead of forcing her and saying will help with this stuff instead it was all about you disappointed us you are disappointment driving her to leave and for them to now turn around and you know blame her for things that were their fault that's a separate issue, but again the way he handles the situation both with his daughter and granddaughter is really gross.
It emphasizes how manipulative he is that even Emily finds his behavior unbelievable 😂
I went back and watched what you linked as “THE dinner fight.” I had already seen that one. You are in for a treat, sir, when you see the REAL dinner fight later in the series. Lol
Thank you so much for your always amazing insights!!! I’m loving your comments on Gilmore Girls. I find your comments always so informative on family dynamics especially in complicated families!
Now in this episode, Richard is insufferable: he doesn’t participate in day to day life of the family, and then expects everything to still follow what je wants. And while he is entirely right in his intentions (he makes excellent points), this doesn’t justify how he made this happen. To be honest, I think Emily (for all her faults) is between a rock and a hard place. She doesn’t want to undermine Richard before their daughter but she also shows so well how betrayed she feels.
I think Richard was wrong in how he went about this. He should have met with Rory on her own and told her how much it meant to him for her to meet the Dean at Yale. Because Rory LOVES her grandfather, she would have agreed to the meeting when she was prepared for it. He didn’t need to manipulate Rory. HOWEVER, Richard was right in A LOT of what he said in this scene. Rory not APPLYING to Yale at all is ridiculous. She LIVES IN CT, has a Yale connection and had no guarantee of getting into Harvard. She needed to have Yale as a backup. Notice that Lorelai didn’t just have a problem with Rory potentially going to Yale, but she didn’t even want Rory TO APPLY! That’s crazy. Rory also didn’t know that she didn’t want to go to Yale. She just decided on Harvard without looking into options. You have to wonder why Lorelai would be okay with Rory blindly choosing a school as a little child and having her stick with that singular decision for the rest of her life. Lorelai wouldn’t have allowed Richard to talk Rory into meeting with the Dean (hence, why I said he should have met with Rory alone). And Rory’s decision to go to Harvard and only Harvard is influenced by Lorelai and Lorelai’s disdain of Yale simply because her parents went there! It’s like Lorelai is living vicariously through Rory. A lot of what Richard said was TRUE! I still think the way he went about it was wrong but I also see his point of view.
True, but in fact Rory applies to Yale without telling her mom. She knows all of this and she acts accordingly.
@@MadYunie00 That was after this episode though. But that does feed into my point that Rory couldn’t share with her mom that she applied to Yale because she knew her mom would be upset. It’s about Lorelai and what she wants more than Rory and Richard called her out on it.
When you finish the series you'll see that Harvard was Lorelei's dream, she wasn't listening to what her daughter wanted, she was using her as a do over
It's true about how some habits can creep into home life without the person being aware. My mom was an elementary school teacher for over 20 years, and she had a tendency to "dumb down" and over-explain things to us kids even after we were basically grown-ups. She meant well, but it made her hard to talk to.
lol he hasn’t gotten to the epic dinner fight yet. Just wait.
Then there’s the control and manipulation with money.
This family has issue is an understatement. I can’t wait to see him react to Richard and Emily’s separation
I also was bothered by the stunt that her grandfather pulled at Yale. Also, Rory was under a lot of pressure when deciding where to go to school. My parents never pressured me and my siblings into choosing a school. They would suggest where to apply based on our interests, but they never decided for us. It was up to us. Being trained as physicians, my parents never pressured us to pursue medical careers or medical school. My dad thought I would make a good doctor or nurse, but when I told him I was not interested, he didn't push it any further. They always told us we must be passionate and work hard whatever we decide to do. Passion and hard work were more important to my parents. They wanted us to be happy.
I had something similar happen to me, but with my dad instead. I did end up going to the university of his choosing (also the major) and in the end, when I graduated, he wasn’t even there for the commencement ceremony. Sometimes what matters the most to someone is being able to control/being always right, even if the intentions start from a good place.
THANK YOU for acknowledging how bull honkey the "better to beg forgiveness than ask permission" is. I say that all the time!
10:22 this was some thing that my late father and I never saw eye to eye on. He was an officer in the Marine Corps, and of course, was used to telling his Marines to jump, and they say how high. He would then get home and tell me to jump, and I would ask why, and he would take that as me refusing to do as I was told. He never understood that it wasn’t that I was refusing to jump, I just wanted to know why. What was the purpose of the jump?
11:53 This monologue from Lorelai… sounds so realistic
Does Richard suck for this? Yep, but Lorelai has a history of turning down options for Rory simply because it’s what her parents would want. Applying to more than one college is the smarter option. Plus in a later episode Lorelai finds out that Rory was required to apply to multiple colleges by her school. You can’t put all your eggs in one basket because thousands of kids apply to Ivy universities a year and you can’t bank on your kid getting in to their dream school. Lorelai digging her heels in about Harvard isn’t in Rory’s best interest either it’s in her own because if Rory chooses Yale she sees it (at least at this point in the series) as Richard and Emily winning. My opinion is the only person with Rory’s best interest at heart is Rory in this episode is Rory.
Please do Jessica Jones!!!
I love your insight here. Would there be a possibility to do a Gilmore girls episode the other way around? Where Lorelai was out of line with her parents?
This is a little besides all the points, but Lorelai looks so good this episode 😍 ❤
I've never seen Gilmore Girls, I'm just here for you Jono. Bet this one's gonna be fun though lol
One of my all time favorite shows, feel free to do many many more episodes - lol!
Well anyway this episode should be a wakeup call to Rory that Harvard should not be your only option for college.
Hi Jono, can you please do an analysis of Lorelei’s boyfriends each season too? I don’t recall seeing something like that for Christopher or Max unless I missed it. Thank you for watching the series, I enjoyed it enough to binge this playlist!
I can't wait for Jono to get to the episodes with Trix, Richard's mother.
Richard needed to realize that Rory wasn’t his second chance with Lorelai and she wasn’t just going to “be a Gilmore” the way he wanted.
Really? Seems to me that Rory wanted to be a Gilmore, she loved that world and that lifestyle. And Lorelei too saw Rory as her second chance, Harvard was her dream not Rory's
There is actually a much bigger, blowout dinner fight that happens in season 6. So you’ll definitely know it when you see it! It is iconic!
Can you do this for The Wheel of Time??
And I will second that
@@fee724 Thanks!!
I cannot wait for you to dive into Rory and Logan’s relationship. The beginning stages anyway. You’re in for a treat😅😂
The way I've been following this series 😂
I was raised by a controlling father And my mother too Also continues to makes excuses for him
That thumbnail is perfect 😅
These "Gets Therapized" videos are great. Please can you widen your scope of TV and film. More Buffy if possible as there are several major relationships there. What about the relationships on Firefly? Other great shows and movies that your audience may have watched (I haven't seen much Gilmore Girls). Many thanks for all your content-it is good to learn about how to deal with things healthily; in my family my dad didn't like arguing so all conflicts were ignored rather than either blowing up or being dealt with.
Rory IS going to Yale.
(Ok,because they weren' t allowed to film in Harvard...)
I love this Gilmore girls therapized series! ❤
Speaking of family dynamics.... Have you watched any Mrs. Browns Boys?.... Irish comedy show and books and she is a character
Yeah, this episode made me so sad and angry.
It also brought back memories of trying to get a taxi to the train station after interviewing at Yale. I called Information, just like Lorelei, and asked for the name of a cab company, just like Lorelei. But the operator wasnt allowed to give out names of businesses, so I ended up getting the number from a Yale staff member. ☺️
"Whenever you try to control, you hurt people and you trigger resentment."
ISTG, I want that on a shirt so I can buy two of them and mail them to my husband's parents.
More glimore girls content please! such great videos, keep it up:)
I wish I could send this video to my mom 10-20 yrs ago... maybe we could've reconciled and had an actual relationship before she died
Quite honestly, Lorelei always sees this coming, so why isn't she better prepared?
because she wants to be wrong about it. so she lets herself think this will be different. I think this especially happens when it involves Rory. I'm not an expert, though, so I could be wrong.
Rory never made a free move in her life. She is the most protected, manipulated, guided person in history
One thing I just realized as an adult and married woman: this is such an amazing example of Emily being a good spouse.
She’s pissed as hell at Richard, but she still supports the positive points in why Richard did what he did (albeit badly and in a toxic way) and she waits to take up her issues with him until after the girls are gone and (presumably) until they got home.
It’s a very good example of supporting your spouse while not necessarily agreeing with them and saving your disagreement until it’s private. As Emily said: that’s between you and your spouse. And as parents, you don’t want to fight in front of your kids either. You don’t want your kids to feel like they need to choose sides. It’s a good example of always being a team and presenting a united front, even when you do not agree with everything.
These could be a short series on your channel. Good examples.
Loving the Gilmore Girls Get Therapized videos 😄 Richard was horrible here!
His low-point, imo.
Yeah one the rare times I’m mad at Richard. On the bright side I’m not that mad at Emily which is weird because I usually get more mad her! Can’t wait to see more!
In a patriarcal society we are conditioned to do exactly that
Thank you for your beautiful videos. Also Cinema Therapy ❤
Not justifying Richard's actions here, but is it usual for students to apply for just one university in the States? My school (in the UK) made us apply to five institutions. It's understandable if they didn't want her to apply to Yale, but their attitude of "Harvard or nothing" with no alternatives was so weird to me.
As someone from the US, no it’s not normal to not have several backups, especially if you’re aiming for an Ivy League school. Even though Lorelei didn’t go to a four-year college, it feels ridiculous that she wouldn’t know that either.
I don't know anyone who wanted to go to college who didn't apply to several, I think I applied to 3 or 4. That's very normal in the US.
I know several people who applied to many schools, including ivy league schools, and waited to see who would offer them the best scholarships before choosing. Maybe unsurprisingly, none of them chose an ivy league. A state school will offer a way better scholarship and much cheaper tuition.
Yeah, that's a television writing issue.
Other shows, I would like you to check out is :
DEXTER
- His personality being a serial killer killing killers and something else by dad
- His relationship with Rita
GREYS ANATOMY
- There is SO SO much to check out!
SO many people love the main couple, Derek and Meredith!
please tell the fans for one thing that Derek and Meredith are NOT so perfect!! That he is REALLY TOXIC for one thing!!
I bet you will agree and have MANY insights to their relationship!!
I want to see your opinion on the episode where Lorelai finds out that Rory applied to Yale.
Lorelai acts so ridiculous in that episode
Love this series. I've been watching 'Everybody Loves Raymond' recently and was wondering if you can cover the show, in particular, episode 11 in season 2. It would be interesting to get your take on relationships with overbearing parents-in-law.
You know what they say, The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
The problem is not that he used his connection - the problem is that Richard wasn't honest with Rory first.
The only nuance I’d add is Rory’s people pleasing tendency that seems to stem from wanting to be liked. Even Harvard is this thing that she thought of as a kid and when her mom approved of it, she felt like ok this is what I have to do, because there’s a history & I don’t want to disappoint my mom.
The never went to college remark was low since in the earlier seasons Lorelai went to community college and actually graduated.
My thoughts exactly
Oh Jono, Jono, that was not yet the big atomic dinner fight 😉
I feel like Emily and Richard treat Lorelai like a child because they lost her when she was a child. They’re incapable of viewing her as a mother, let alone an independent woman, because they only view her through the lens of a petulant child that left them and reject everything they stand for (except when she comes to them for lots of money…) and they take that extremely personally and refuse to see her side of things because they think they’re completely in the right. I so wish the series had shown moments of growth between Lorelai and her parents, but I guess this is a more accurate, real life depiction of two parties who have no clue how to draw boundaries and have healthy conversation lol
Family with money so they own you
Learn to take care of yourself
Don't let people buy you with money and resources
This episode is a great remeinder you cant control you're kids future. You have to let them decide what they want and guide them. Kids aren't a mini versions of their grandparents or parentx. They are thier own person with thier own wants and needs