As some have noted, there is an error regarding the seal at the end of the video. Any game that a reviewer gives a 7-8 gets a Seal of Approval, any game which receives an 8.5 or higher earns a Seal of Excellence.
I was really surprised before I saw the video when I saw Stan K post on Facebook a picture with just the silver seal. I really anticipated you guys liking it enough for the excellent. This explains it!
Is the video seal going to be fixed? I personally feel it is important for the designer, publisher, and DT viewers for this to be updated within the video.
Well, this time it is actually make sense, not like in other video which you guys (and ladies) uploaded not so long ago. When the majority scores for Excellence this is obvious (and welcomed). When the minority scores for Excellence while the majority only Approved the game, and yet it gets a Seal of Excellence, that seems unjustified, and the feeling that the game didn't really deserve that seal - leaves a bad taste.
Note on why the glacier and rest tokens were kept as modules: a guest designer added them in as a KS perk. Going forward we will include integral things like this into the core of Fantasia games, simply giving rulebook credit for any guest-designer content-not separating them from basic setup/play. TL;DR, always play with these modules! They really round out the game nicely.
Seal of excellence, could not agree more! Amazing game! Also, the monolith tiles layout can be VERY important. In certain layouts it is possible to get a lot more points out of monolith placement than in other, so you have to adept your strategie around the layout @tom. Someone on the Discord even made a table wich layout offers the most points.
I played this game on TTS a lot and received my copy recently, I agree a lot about the deck building feeling very different. In this game the deck building feels more like you're investing in a nice action selection/economy building mechanic without a lot of the things that I don't necessarily like about traditional deck building games. I haven't played with the two expansion that add a bunch of new stuff (cave paintings and rivers and rafts), but the ancestors expansion that just adds new alternate animal, tribe, and chief cards you can switch out for or mix and match with are really nice to start mixing in after a handful of games. I really like this game, it's really up there for me as far as worker placement games go, glad to see you three all liked it as well!
Played it for the first time yesterday at 2 players. KS production is amazingly good. I really like this game and keep thinking about it. I agree with Mike that after playing it once, I don’t think I’ll have any problem teaching it in the future. Great review guys!
Really strong video from Chris - he’s so Clear and concise in getting across what are the unique aspects and feel of the game that set it apart from others. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
This literally fits seal of excellence. I think there was a mistake in editing. Tom has made it very clear over and over that the highest score is what clarifies the seal
Re: Playing a card for labor or its ability. You get both. The choice is between playing it as part of an action or saving it for the eclipse. I haven't tried a heavy eclipse game yet, but I'm interested to try it
@@michaeldilisio557 I do the same, even on games I helped develop, games I wrote the rulebook for, games I spent 60 hours making a video on. But then, when not scripted and just chatting about the game, I occasionally misspeak and people jump on me :)
I agree Mico’s best work here because he has just a bit more restraint in his palette and with the caricature and instead focuses on contrast and shape. His skill really comes through. 🔥
I am really looking forward to receive my KS version. I am a fan of Dune and Arnak and I think this should be right up my alley if I am in the mood for this kind of gaming experience.
We like the ancestors where the animals give set bonuses every eclipse making more attractive to go hunting. We also used the cave paintings and that adds a whole new action place for workers to go, which adds more variety for worker placement and it’s fun to draw out your cave painting. I see the cave painting and ancestors being a permanent part of playing. Going to try out Rivers & Rafts, which appears to add overhead rules to additional scoring. The map has some area control with camps and villages having influence over tile bonuses. I think this would come out more at higher player count.
A friend of mine got this & we played a couple of weeks ago. We really enjoyed it even though we got a few rules wrong. We didn't play with the rest & glacier modules, so I'll suggest those for the next play. Thanks for bringing those up in the review.
Very well presented, very to the point. I couldn't summarize the game better. It is an 8.5 for me, but I didn't play any of the expansions. It'll probably increase after that! Thanks again guys!
Great review as always. I've played this half a dozen times now and mostly agree with all the comments. I would say that you need to get a few games in to fully appreciate the different strategies you can take though. The Megalith board (not monoliths :P) is actually a pretty sweet way to get end game VP's if you play it right! Also, the river expansion is a load of fun. I'm not sure if it's a better mechanic, but it's just cool paddling down stream and going fishing :)
I’m confounded at your take on Arnak’s theme, Tom. I have never played a game that intertwines theme, artwork, and game mechanics as carefully and cleverly as Arnak. Every single card effect, guardian boon, and location bonus has a plausible narrative explanation, which is further reinforced by the gorgeous artwork. Even the idea of consolidating your knowledge through research as you physically explore the island makes good thematic sense. Furthermore, exploring further inland (i.e. the places where fewer prior explorers of Arnak would have reasonably ventured) quite intuitively yields bigger bounties. And all of this is accomplished with NO “in-your-face” flavour text. Do yourself a favour next time you play and ask yourself “how does this [insert game feature] make sense in the context of the theme?” I think you might be surprised at just how deep Arnak’s theme really runs.
Agreed. And echoed for this game in spades! Something as subtle as you hunt the sabertoothe and the benefit is burying a card from your deck so that you cull and shape your hand. Oh wait. What are the cards. Tribe members . You buried a tribe member after a hunting conflict with a dangerous animal. That hunter was grievously injured during the fight. But the tribe lives on and gets their meat and tools/pelts. Or the elder you buried was attacked by the sabertoothe that the tribe had to avenge. And more.
When paying labour from the clan cards to pay for the action spots, you DO get the top row bonuses on the cards. Just not the bottom row eclipse bonus.
Thanks a lot for the review! I might be wrong, but doesn't the highest rating decide the seal of approval/excellence? I swear I have seen reviews where there were 8s and 6s and still got a Seal of Approval. Shouldn't this be a Seal of Excellence, based on Chris's and Mike's rating?
I wonder how much all the expansion modules add and/or change the game. With these large Kickstarter games they often feel like the modules should have actually been part of the core. It'd be good to do an updated review after someone has played with more of the other modules plugged in
Sorry, a mistake in editing. I've pinned a comment and left a note in the description to hopefully avoid any more confusion. It is definitely awarded a Seal of Excellence.
Interesting the similarities I had with Tom. I sold mine within a week and gave it a 7 rating. However my critisism was the same as his, procedural and cold (The game had no highs and no lows, is best I could describe it). I felt because everything was a good choice, I was happy with any action at any time and though going through the placement action list after had some nice choices on how many cards to use etc, ultimately though I never felt the crunch I seek in heavy games. However I never used those variants, in particular the strengthening of the rest action sounds juicy in powering up the eclipse and muddying the waters on which worker placement action to actually take instead of just being happy with any. A bit of sellers remorse now, wish they put those in the actual rules. Oh well, onto the next game, I think this game is going to be a hit though it was pleasant to play and I expect its going to have many fans.
I mean, the entire design of a euro game is that it's a consistent engine that chugs along until the end game. You usually don't get big highs and lows just because of the type of game it is.
The big highs and lows come from player interaction. Taking someone's monolith build. Racing to the honor finish. Bringing a sacred stone in just the nick of time before someone snags it . Watching or performing a killer play combo. I can't relate at all to Tom or yours statements on this one. Also, I'm not sure I could bring myself to resell a game I just got without fully exploring all the modules and buts first.
With games that give points for everything you do I want to know that if I was using a die or randomizer to decide all of my choices would I end up with a competitive score by the end? This was a nice video to distract me while I was for my package to arrive. Thanks!
My wife and I got our first two games this past weekend. First with modules of the base game and the second with all of the Ancestors expansion. It's good, but...I disagree that you feel like you can do something good every turn. The last two turns seem mostly wasted unless you just do animals every time. If you go into the round with any good sacred stones taken, it deflates the experience by a lot. We'll get one more play in with Rivers and Rafts also in, but I already consider housing rule to include more sacred stones available in the pool and hoping the additional points from area control in River and Rafts makes every action to the end feel significant.
This was a very interesting discussion. This game doesn’t sound like my cup of tea, but perhaps I will play at a Dice Tower con to give it a try. I really appreciate Tom’s remarks that this is a Euro… if I saw that cover, I might think it was something else!
This game is a 10/10 for me. Their "procedural" argument was pretty silly. Following steps in a certain order is a negative now? Also the theme is GREAT! The DT is pretty inconsistent with its definition of theme. Tom will say "Mowing down hordes of aliens is so thematic" when really you're just rolling dice. Pretty reductive....Endless Winter has a historical element to it, the actions fit with the tribe card names and abilities, the burying action is thematic, the animals, etc. Also, the game is NOT too long. Feast for Odin is unbearably long, and I only played it at three players. You only have 12 total turns in this game. You gotta make everyone of them count. They are right in that the game is INCREDIBLY balanced! So many paths to victory. Good mix of strategy and tactical decisions to make. The megalith board orientation ABSOLUTELY matters; higher player counts with lower player-count layouts make it far too imbalanced. Oh, and the expansions add AWESOME content to the game, and I won't play without the base game's modules, either.
25:00 Tbf EW:P only has 4 worker spots so that flexibility isn't really much lol Then again, a worker placement game with only 4 spots? Is there even one with fewer? 🤯
I should have added those two modules. At 4 players, the terrain map becomes too tight and less opportunities at the action space bonuses. After our first play, Arnak is leaving the collection today. Already have D:I so no need to have 3 DB/WP games even if they aren't that similar.
How different are they? I disliked Arnak and liked Dune Imperium for the most part but still sold it because I didn't like the confrontation aspect and the dummy players were a bit annoying
They are all different from each other, the only comparison is the two main mechanisms that they share... Arnak seemed one sided to me and a bit lucky DI was great, and honestly integrates the two mechanisms the best of all 3 games EW is my favorite of the 3 because of the different routes to victory you can take with it all still being balanced. Each route is almost like its own mini game ...
i know the title is a joke but i would like to point out that this game is about humans, not neanderthals, and the time this is set in is nearly twice as far removed from the extinction of neanderthals as it is from the year 2022
Seal of excellence despite what the graphics say. Still waiting for my KS copy to come in (it should be mentioned that Fantasia messed up delivery and got this to Essen before backers got their copies, which always bugs me), but I thought I'd say that, going off this overview alone, I really feel what Mike said about this not being that hard a teach in spite of its table presence and complexity. Seems like a pretty straightforward game all in all, which is an achievement in and of itself.
Hmmm, interesting that this game gets the seal of excellence. Will be interesting to see if this game is still on Mike's top 100 in a couple years. I'm guessing that it'll fade and the seal won't be relevant for very long.
Tom goes … its a very mechanical game, its not theme first, its a straight up euro. Tom also goes its too long with 4 players for what it is. And Tom ranks Ark Nova number 1. What I don’t understand? 😉
Devil’s advocate on how it’s similar to D:I. (some of these reasons are a stretch😂): The three actions/round, the combo of playing cards with action selection, how the leftover cards can buy something, how there is an auction style battle at the end of the round and you try not to overbid it. The special leader ability is like the signet ring ability. Although there are only 12 total actions (4 rounds x 3 actions) in EW, each action get you like 2.5 times what one action gets you in D:I., and 12 x 2.5 = 30, which is about what you get in a 10 round game of D:I. While needing a card to be able to go to an action space in D:I is different, it’s not really that big a deal since with 5 cards you’ll likely have most available. While D:I has 20+ spaces, usually only a handful (like in EW) are ever truly available (because you don’t have enough resources to take them).
I kind of agree with Tom. From the cover and the title I was expecting more....excitement? if thats the right word. It's much drier and mechanical than I expected. Still like the game but definitely not as exciting as I'd hoped.
Yeah, I have to say if you're going with the "This doesn't have a theme" then 90% of games don't. I think you're getting a little loose with that particular phrasing.
I personally rank Endless Winter first in theme, Arnak 2nd, and Dune 3rd. In E:W you are literally moving settlements around to get better resources, taking a hunting action to literally acquire animals, literally building a monolith, etc. Dune is a great game, and you might respond to a space/intrigue setting more, but a lot of it is playing a card with irrelevant tie-in to the theme, onto triangle spaces/blue spaces/ green spaces. Your actions in D:I are way more abstracted compared to the “story” behind the cards or spaces. That to me lessens the theme in D:I. You could retheme D:I as Star Wars, Star Trek, Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings etc but I think it would be harder to do that in Endless Winter. All subjective of course…
I gotta disagree with you about Dune. The yellow triangles represent the desert and can also be used to transport spice. Blue spaces represent City spaces on the planet, full stop. Green spaces are basically 'In Space'. Yellows and Blues let you go to combat (unless you are transporting spice). Green do not let you go to combat. Water is necessary to get spice in the desert. A lot of these mechanics could not be easily reskinned into Star Wars or Star Trek or Lord of the Rings. It's not a good argument.
I’m sure there are more than enough Star Wars factions (Huts, Mandalorians, the empire, the Senate, Jedi, the Sith, etc) to fill out the various tracks as well as to represent green and blue spaces. Instead of going to the planet to get spice that can be traded in for money and military and various other things, you can go to your network of contacts throughout the galaxy to gather “support” resources, to be traded for money and military and other things. Since I am more familiar with Star Wars this would improve the theme for me. However, the actions will still be pretty abstracted, and that to me still makes it a less thematic game. I guess it all depends on how we define thematic.
@@Peter-ht7mb It wouldn't be easily reskinned as a Star Wars game. I'm not saying it's impossible - obviously you can simply slap Star Wars names for the factions and change the names of resources or whatever. I am very familiar with Dune and find Dune: Imperium to be rather thematic. It costs water to get spice...in the desert. You can't fight on Dune while you take an action in space. Harkonnen favor intrigue while Atreides favor card draw - relating to the treachery Harkonnen are known for and the prescience the Atreides are known for. The Fremen faction cares about troops and water, while the Spacing Guild cares about spice and can transport agents and troops anywhere. The Bene Gesserit faction cares about intrigue and can punish someone who is collecting too many of them, but they can also draw cards (sculpt the future). The emperor represents wealth and will give you money or take your spice and give you money, troops, and intrigue cards. I could go on, but I think you see my point.
I think the theme comes through all throughout and drips with headcannon narrative as I play. I took out that animal and lost a tribe member. Sacrifices villages migrations. Worship and ceremony. I just disagree all the way that it's euro first theme second. I'm with Chris on this one.
This game really did not do it for me... First with all those mini modules and mini extra rules, it is annoying to not really know how the game was intended to be played... The mechanisms are fine but all those mini games were not that interesting... But finally, these is one of those games (like Arnak) in which you dont do much at all in your first round, but then on the 3rd and last round, one could go cook a meal while the other player spends 15min considering all the possible moves...
I'm surprised that none of you mentioned one aspect of the game that is a criticism (as fun as the game is). Do you not find that in Round 4 (or the final round) of the game that you can do "too much" on your turn? Like no matter what path to victory you picked, you can just buy up every card in the game you want, get a bunch of animals, do a decent megalith job etc? Like the first couple of rounds didn't have much impact because you can just own everything you want at the end?
Hey Luke. First of, i love your channel. Usually we have a very common taste in Games. But here i have to say: We played the game about 20 times in our group. This is simply not true. Yes you can do more in your last turn (as you should) but your first turns are crucial, especiall if playing against experienced opponents. In this game you can get so many points if you prepare it in the first rounds.You wouldnt believe it. It seems to me a lot of your oppinion comes from not playing it often enough to see all the ways your early turns effect your outcome. Also you can spice the game up a lot with the Ancestors module. Different animals make it so that they dont bring endgame points but rather strong bonuses every eclipse phase.
@@brettgeschichten7246 I've played with those animals, they are cool and I like to use them but it's not what I mean. In the 5-6 times I've played the game I've found that I have the ability to go nuts on the last round. More nuts than I would expect given how fairly tight round 1 and 2 is. That's my concern.
@@TheBrokenMeeple ah okay i see were you are coming from. I kinda like this gameplay. It tells a story in my head that my tribe has become stronger and can achieve more in the last two eras. But as i mentioned for us this never was a problem, we found that if you play against an evenly skilled opponent you will loose if you dont use your first eras smart. Especially Era two is quite crucial since you may consider getting first player in era 3 to get the better culture cards and sacred stones. But i understand your concerns. As for my group this game is our favorite out of Dune, Arnak and this one.
It just adds to the sense of build up. You've worked for the last three rounds to get to this stage. It works both mechanically and thematically. After hundreds of years the tribe does more than just survive, it thrives. Weird thing to get hung up on.
I felt the same way (assuming you mean last "round" not last then, but have only played it solo. I don't think that would happen OTB with 3-4 players as you can't get all your megaliths and villages out, max your tracks on the final turn, etc. when there is more contention that an AI can't "see." However, the same "criticism" can be leveled at Everdell. There it is a huge win and the limited tableau turns it into a game strategy mechanic. Here the question is why this is a big deal? Being able to buy a ton of cards at the end matters little since they are only a point, they do nothing but their eclipse (which doesn't have that much value/is dependent on a track that is not to be raced down), and is just an endgame minmax. Also, even here it is balanced. the worst ROI main action for the final turn would be culture (basically buy 1-2 cards at great cost which is like 2-4VP, but that. is the place you get scoring tiles which can be very swingy so it is still valid. Similar balance exists throughout the game. As long as it doesn't feel too easy to max an area, that is enough. Even if you do, the lesser action mechanic offers hidden value (for instance, in final eclipse scoring, the card action isn't wasted because it is the 2nd highest in the tier and can be traded down for movement in the board. Similar if mid game you run out of megaliths.…
This game is definitely too long, would never play it with more than 2. Even more egregiously, individual turns are quite long because they involve so many different actions/steps. I feel like I need to houserule it to somehow allow somewhat simultaneous turns.
I normally like board games with a Stone Age theme, but I find "Endless Winter" incredibly boring. And I think the mechanics are pretty miserable. Almost every mechanic is just slightly touched. The worker placement part is small and pointless, the animal hunting isn't fully developed and the area control is not interesting. And I think that pumping multiple cards into one action to pay for it or to make it better is not a good mechanic. And putting away cards for a later evaluation is an even worse mechanic. The deck building is probably the best part of the game because of the technology cards.
Dune's theme is non existent. I love the game but saying it has theme beyond its visual trappings seems like a stretch. It also feels like Tom is searching for ways to justify his dislike, which people often do, its fine to just say you dont like something. But come on, multiple tents banding together to form a village clearly makes thematic sense.
Uh get a poll going, I guarantee the majority will say that Dune Imperium has a stronger tie to its theme than does Endless Winter. Doesn't mean EW is the themeless, but it's not very comparable to Dune in this regard.
Dune Imperium has no theme. It just have Artwork from the movies. I am sorry but when i play Dune it feels completly dry and mechanical. Endless Winter might not be the most thematic game ever but everything makes sense. Even the monolith part tom mentioned, your clan trys to build the biggest monolith to please the spirits makes totaly sense to me
@@brettgeschichten7246 Completely disagree personally. Going up the different house tracks & reaping the individual benefits is very much thematic. Also engaging in the battles, gaining research, having unique leaders and character cards with abilities that make sense thematically... From a euro perspective, Dune:I practically drips theme. You can point out that technically all games have pasted on themes, but imo that's a silly oversimplification. That's not to say that EW also doesn't have any thematic ties, but I do personally think it is a lesser tie than with Dune:I.
@@fingolfinfinwe its funny how different taste can be, a good friend of mine says the same. I really can not see it. Everytime i sit down to play Dune i can just see a puzzle to get to 10 WP as fast as possible, could be any other theme aswell. When i put EW on my table my brain starts to tell a story. Just funny how different people see stuff.
Greatly disliked this game. 3-4/10. Lots elements that I like on paper, but nothing fit together well. Everything felt half baked... and sorry, but no, the iconography wasn't good.
As some have noted, there is an error regarding the seal at the end of the video. Any game that a reviewer gives a 7-8 gets a Seal of Approval, any game which receives an 8.5 or higher earns a Seal of Excellence.
Are you telling us that Tom's opinion isn't the only one that matters? :P
I was really surprised before I saw the video when I saw Stan K post on Facebook a picture with just the silver seal. I really anticipated you guys liking it enough for the excellent. This explains it!
Is the video seal going to be fixed? I personally feel it is important for the designer, publisher, and DT viewers for this to be updated within the video.
Well, this time it is actually make sense, not like in other video which you guys (and ladies) uploaded not so long ago.
When the majority scores for Excellence this is obvious (and welcomed).
When the minority scores for Excellence while the majority only Approved the game, and yet it gets a Seal of Excellence, that seems unjustified, and the feeling that the game didn't really deserve that seal - leaves a bad taste.
I came here because this is being advertised as getting a seal of excellence, fyi
Thanks for the review! :) Glad you guys enjoyed the Rest and Glacier modules that I designed!
Note on why the glacier and rest tokens were kept as modules: a guest designer added them in as a KS perk. Going forward we will include integral things like this into the core of Fantasia games, simply giving rulebook credit for any guest-designer content-not separating them from basic setup/play.
TL;DR, always play with these modules! They really round out the game nicely.
What does TLDR mean?
@@chasecausey3821 Too lazy; didn't read. It is a short summary of the longer text.
I believe the Canine Module sits in the same tier of modules to always be added.
Thank you for the information. Are these modules in the retail addition or only the KS edition?
@@thecollins41 glaciers and rest tokens are in the base game, if they're stripped from retail I'd be very surprised.
Can we just agree on how fantastic Chris is? Everything he says brings so much perspective to the conversation.
Agreed! He is so good at letting other people speak and at being aware of when to push on a disagreement or just let it go.
I like Chris a lot, which is especially high praise considering that my taste in games couldn't be too much farther from his (I'm Mr. Ameritrash).
Wait! Is this Chris Yi's secret youtube profile?
I miss Sam
@@Slyfox1775 😭 me too
" Who built the tents Tom?!... ALIENS! " that had me chuckling pretty hard.
Please have Mike do a solo review!
Would love to see you all review John Company 2nd Edition!
Glad the rulebook was acceptable - we put the major hours into refining it :)
Seal of excellence, could not agree more! Amazing game! Also, the monolith tiles layout can be VERY important. In certain layouts it is possible to get a lot more points out of monolith placement than in other, so you have to adept your strategie around the layout @tom.
Someone on the Discord even made a table wich layout offers the most points.
Would love a solo review Mike, if you ever get around to it.
Got it on the mail on Monday, played a 4-player game on Friday. REALLY well-done game, and one that’s going to stay in my collection for a long time!
Weird that Tom hated this game so much.
Confirmed seal of excellence! 👏🏻 Well deserved to a newly formed company! Fantasia you did a great beginning! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
My most anticipated review for 2021 and 2022
I played this game on TTS a lot and received my copy recently, I agree a lot about the deck building feeling very different. In this game the deck building feels more like you're investing in a nice action selection/economy building mechanic without a lot of the things that I don't necessarily like about traditional deck building games.
I haven't played with the two expansion that add a bunch of new stuff (cave paintings and rivers and rafts), but the ancestors expansion that just adds new alternate animal, tribe, and chief cards you can switch out for or mix and match with are really nice to start mixing in after a handful of games.
I really like this game, it's really up there for me as far as worker placement games go, glad to see you three all liked it as well!
I love Dice Tower dropping huge reviews on Sunday. Look forward to it every week
Played it for the first time yesterday at 2 players. KS production is amazingly good. I really like this game and keep thinking about it. I agree with Mike that after playing it once, I don’t think I’ll have any problem teaching it in the future. Great review guys!
Really strong video from Chris - he’s so Clear and concise in getting across what are the unique aspects and feel of the game that set it apart from others. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
This literally fits seal of excellence. I think there was a mistake in editing. Tom has made it very clear over and over that the highest score is what clarifies the seal
Yeah they goofed
Yeah, it’s just a editing mistake
Correct, that should be a seal of excellence.
As Tom clearly hated the game, he downgraded the seal! 😉
Re: Playing a card for labor or its ability. You get both. The choice is between playing it as part of an action or saving it for the eclipse. I haven't tried a heavy eclipse game yet, but I'm interested to try it
Yes, apparently I misspoke during the overview. I’ve played and taught it correctly, but must’ve explained It incorrectly in the overview.
@@michaeldilisio557 I do the same, even on games I helped develop, games I wrote the rulebook for, games I spent 60 hours making a video on. But then, when not scripted and just chatting about the game, I occasionally misspeak and people jump on me :)
I agree Mico’s best work here because he has just a bit more restraint in his palette and with the caricature and instead focuses on contrast and shape. His skill really comes through. 🔥
I am really looking forward to receive my KS version. I am a fan of Dune and Arnak and I think this should be right up my alley if I am in the mood for this kind of gaming experience.
We like the ancestors where the animals give set bonuses every eclipse making more attractive to go hunting. We also used the cave paintings and that adds a whole new action place for workers to go, which adds more variety for worker placement and it’s fun to draw out your cave painting. I see the cave painting and ancestors being a permanent part of playing. Going to try out Rivers & Rafts, which appears to add overhead rules to additional scoring. The map has some area control with camps and villages having influence over tile bonuses. I think this would come out more at higher player count.
A friend of mine got this & we played a couple of weeks ago. We really enjoyed it even though we got a few rules wrong. We didn't play with the rest & glacier modules, so I'll suggest those for the next play. Thanks for bringing those up in the review.
Very well presented, very to the point. I couldn't summarize the game better. It is an 8.5 for me, but I didn't play any of the expansions. It'll probably increase after that!
Thanks again guys!
Great review as always. I've played this half a dozen times now and mostly agree with all the comments. I would say that you need to get a few games in to fully appreciate the different strategies you can take though. The Megalith board (not monoliths :P) is actually a pretty sweet way to get end game VP's if you play it right! Also, the river expansion is a load of fun. I'm not sure if it's a better mechanic, but it's just cool paddling down stream and going fishing :)
Thank you for the great review, guys! 🤠💙
When can we expect a review of the expansions Mike ?
Great, well reasoned review as always. Looking forward to getting my copy soon.
Awesome news to wake up to on Sunday morning!
Are the modules Tom says he will “never play without” included in the retail edition?
Got mine all ready and sleeved. Just need to get it to the table!
Got it to the table and enjoy it.
"Heaviest game I don't dread teaching" is a really clever observation :-)
highly disagree with Tom with the theme. Endless winter implements its theme wonderfully.
I am glad I got the playmat to organize the table. There’s a ton of components all over the table otherwise
I’m confounded at your take on Arnak’s theme, Tom. I have never played a game that intertwines theme, artwork, and game mechanics as carefully and cleverly as Arnak. Every single card effect, guardian boon, and location bonus has a plausible narrative explanation, which is further reinforced by the gorgeous artwork.
Even the idea of consolidating your knowledge through research as you physically explore the island makes good thematic sense. Furthermore, exploring further inland (i.e. the places where fewer prior explorers of Arnak would have reasonably ventured) quite intuitively yields bigger bounties. And all of this is accomplished with NO “in-your-face” flavour text.
Do yourself a favour next time you play and ask yourself “how does this [insert game feature] make sense in the context of the theme?” I think you might be surprised at just how deep Arnak’s theme really runs.
Agreed. And echoed for this game in spades! Something as subtle as you hunt the sabertoothe and the benefit is burying a card from your deck so that you cull and shape your hand. Oh wait. What are the cards. Tribe members . You buried a tribe member after a hunting conflict with a dangerous animal. That hunter was grievously injured during the fight. But the tribe lives on and gets their meat and tools/pelts. Or the elder you buried was attacked by the sabertoothe that the tribe had to avenge. And more.
When paying labour from the clan cards to pay for the action spots, you DO get the top row bonuses on the cards. Just not the bottom row eclipse bonus.
"Incidental Randomness" seems like a good phrase to describe that type of randomness in a board game.
Thanks a lot for the review! I might be wrong, but doesn't the highest rating decide the seal of approval/excellence? I swear I have seen reviews where there were 8s and 6s and still got a Seal of Approval. Shouldn't this be a Seal of Excellence, based on Chris's and Mike's rating?
Even if you take the average of all 3 it's 8.5 so I'm surprised.
Yes, that is supposed to be a seal of excellence. Just an editing mistake.
Brought it at PAX Melbourne, it is a great game!
I wonder how much all the expansion modules add and/or change the game. With these large Kickstarter games they often feel like the modules should have actually been part of the core. It'd be good to do an updated review after someone has played with more of the other modules plugged in
How is 8.5 average Seal of Approval and not Excellence? Or does only Tom's score count?
Sorry, a mistake in editing. I've pinned a comment and left a note in the description to hopefully avoid any more confusion. It is definitely awarded a Seal of Excellence.
Snazzy shirt, Tom! Loving the colors, and you look great in it.
Just got my copy of Stan's other new game Resurgence. It is Fantastic!
Thank you 😊
Interesting the similarities I had with Tom. I sold mine within a week and gave it a 7 rating. However my critisism was the same as his, procedural and cold (The game had no highs and no lows, is best I could describe it). I felt because everything was a good choice, I was happy with any action at any time and though going through the placement action list after had some nice choices on how many cards to use etc, ultimately though I never felt the crunch I seek in heavy games.
However I never used those variants, in particular the strengthening of the rest action sounds juicy in powering up the eclipse and muddying the waters on which worker placement action to actually take instead of just being happy with any. A bit of sellers remorse now, wish they put those in the actual rules. Oh well, onto the next game, I think this game is going to be a hit though it was pleasant to play and I expect its going to have many fans.
I mean, the entire design of a euro game is that it's a consistent engine that chugs along until the end game. You usually don't get big highs and lows just because of the type of game it is.
The big highs and lows come from player interaction. Taking someone's monolith build. Racing to the honor finish. Bringing a sacred stone in just the nick of time before someone snags it . Watching or performing a killer play combo.
I can't relate at all to Tom or yours statements on this one. Also, I'm not sure I could bring myself to resell a game I just got without fully exploring all the modules and buts first.
With games that give points for everything you do I want to know that if I was using a die or randomizer to decide all of my choices would I end up with a competitive score by the end? This was a nice video to distract me while I was for my package to arrive. Thanks!
This is (mostly) a resource poor game so some actions would be unusable/wasted if randomly selected and you don't have the resources to take them up.
My wife and I got our first two games this past weekend. First with modules of the base game and the second with all of the Ancestors expansion. It's good, but...I disagree that you feel like you can do something good every turn. The last two turns seem mostly wasted unless you just do animals every time. If you go into the round with any good sacred stones taken, it deflates the experience by a lot. We'll get one more play in with Rivers and Rafts also in, but I already consider housing rule to include more sacred stones available in the pool and hoping the additional points from area control in River and Rafts makes every action to the end feel significant.
I think the rule book is also top notch. Paul Grogan and team did an excellent job.
I love the setting, but I don't always need a thematic tie-in.
This was a very interesting discussion. This game doesn’t sound like my cup of tea, but perhaps I will play at a Dice Tower con to give it a try. I really appreciate Tom’s remarks that this is a Euro… if I saw that cover, I might think it was something else!
Monoliths or megaliths? 😉
Anyway, great review! Looking forward to get my copy.
Great design Stan Kordonskiy. Loved play testing this with you 😊
This game is a 10/10 for me. Their "procedural" argument was pretty silly. Following steps in a certain order is a negative now? Also the theme is GREAT! The DT is pretty inconsistent with its definition of theme. Tom will say "Mowing down hordes of aliens is so thematic" when really you're just rolling dice. Pretty reductive....Endless Winter has a historical element to it, the actions fit with the tribe card names and abilities, the burying action is thematic, the animals, etc. Also, the game is NOT too long. Feast for Odin is unbearably long, and I only played it at three players. You only have 12 total turns in this game. You gotta make everyone of them count. They are right in that the game is INCREDIBLY balanced! So many paths to victory. Good mix of strategy and tactical decisions to make.
The megalith board orientation ABSOLUTELY matters; higher player counts with lower player-count layouts make it far too imbalanced.
Oh, and the expansions add AWESOME content to the game, and I won't play without the base game's modules, either.
Wich one do you like more. Endless Winter or Architects/Paladins/Raiders....?
25:00 Tbf EW:P only has 4 worker spots so that flexibility isn't really much lol
Then again, a worker placement game with only 4 spots? Is there even one with fewer? 🤯
Which modules Tom is talking about? Going to icefield is not useless and resting action
I should have added those two modules. At 4 players, the terrain map becomes too tight and less opportunities at the action space bonuses.
After our first play, Arnak is leaving the collection today. Already have D:I so no need to have 3 DB/WP games even if they aren't that similar.
I'll keep all 3.
Good call on ditching arnak
Same here, but arnak left months ago for me
How different are they? I disliked Arnak and liked Dune Imperium for the most part but still sold it because I didn't like the confrontation aspect and the dummy players were a bit annoying
They are all different from each other, the only comparison is the two main mechanisms that they share...
Arnak seemed one sided to me and a bit lucky
DI was great, and honestly integrates the two mechanisms the best of all 3 games
EW is my favorite of the 3 because of the different routes to victory you can take with it all still being balanced. Each route is almost like its own mini game ...
So I guess this will be this year's Dwellings for Tom... XD not complaining, just making an observation. :)
i know the title is a joke but i would like to point out that this game is about humans, not neanderthals, and the time this is set in is nearly twice as far removed from the extinction of neanderthals as it is from the year 2022
Seal of excellence despite what the graphics say.
Still waiting for my KS copy to come in (it should be mentioned that Fantasia messed up delivery and got this to Essen before backers got their copies, which always bugs me), but I thought I'd say that, going off this overview alone, I really feel what Mike said about this not being that hard a teach in spite of its table presence and complexity. Seems like a pretty straightforward game all in all, which is an achievement in and of itself.
An amazing game! One of my best for this year!
It seems really complicated and like it takes up massive space on a table
So from what I gather, this game is 1-4 players. What is the average game time for playing? It seems a higher learning curve for gameplay
is that a Third eye games and comics shirt?
Demons dream of pokemon
That is exactly what I stumbled immediately across as well!! They made a mistake - obviously it is DT-Excellent rating!!
Hmmm, interesting that this game gets the seal of excellence. Will be interesting to see if this game is still on Mike's top 100 in a couple years. I'm guessing that it'll fade and the seal won't be relevant for very long.
Tom goes … its a very mechanical game, its not theme first, its a straight up euro. Tom also goes its too long with 4 players for what it is.
And Tom ranks Ark Nova number 1.
What I don’t understand? 😉
He is more like a hater than a reviewer rn
I think Tom means it is a mechanismal game
no theme? i always agree with Tom,but not on this one
Devil’s advocate on how it’s similar to D:I. (some of these reasons are a stretch😂): The three actions/round, the combo of playing cards with action selection, how the leftover cards can buy something, how there is an auction style battle at the end of the round and you try not to overbid it. The special leader ability is like the signet ring ability. Although there are only 12 total actions (4 rounds x 3 actions) in EW, each action get you like 2.5 times what one action gets you in D:I., and 12 x 2.5 = 30, which is about what you get in a 10 round game of D:I. While needing a card to be able to go to an action space in D:I is different, it’s not really that big a deal since with 5 cards you’ll likely have most available. While D:I has 20+ spaces, usually only a handful (like in EW) are ever truly available (because you don’t have enough resources to take them).
I kind of agree with Tom. From the cover and the title I was expecting more....excitement? if thats the right word. It's much drier and mechanical than I expected. Still like the game but definitely not as exciting as I'd hoped.
Yeah, I have to say if you're going with the "This doesn't have a theme" then 90% of games don't. I think you're getting a little loose with that particular phrasing.
Got my copy the past week, haven't played it yet (ISS Vanguard is eating ALL my time 🤣) but I'm really looking forward to it. This game looks so good
Love the content. But I think it’s time to upgrade your camera and video quality lmaooo
1st! :) waiting for my copy sooo much. Thanks for the review!
I personally rank Endless Winter first in theme, Arnak 2nd, and Dune 3rd. In E:W you are literally moving settlements around to get better resources, taking a hunting action to literally acquire animals, literally building a monolith, etc. Dune is a great game, and you might respond to a space/intrigue setting more, but a lot of it is playing a card with irrelevant tie-in to the theme, onto triangle spaces/blue spaces/ green spaces. Your actions in D:I are way more abstracted compared to the “story” behind the cards or spaces. That to me lessens the theme in D:I. You could retheme D:I as Star Wars, Star Trek, Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings etc but I think it would be harder to do that in Endless Winter. All subjective of course…
I gotta disagree with you about Dune. The yellow triangles represent the desert and can also be used to transport spice. Blue spaces represent City spaces on the planet, full stop. Green spaces are basically 'In Space'. Yellows and Blues let you go to combat (unless you are transporting spice). Green do not let you go to combat. Water is necessary to get spice in the desert. A lot of these mechanics could not be easily reskinned into Star Wars or Star Trek or Lord of the Rings. It's not a good argument.
I’m sure there are more than enough Star Wars factions (Huts, Mandalorians, the empire, the Senate, Jedi, the Sith, etc) to fill out the various tracks as well as to represent green and blue spaces. Instead of going to the planet to get spice that can be traded in for money and military and various other things, you can go to your network of contacts throughout the galaxy to gather “support” resources, to be traded for money and military and other things. Since I am more familiar with Star Wars this would improve the theme for me. However, the actions will still be pretty abstracted, and that to me still makes it a less thematic game. I guess it all depends on how we define thematic.
@@Peter-ht7mb It wouldn't be easily reskinned as a Star Wars game. I'm not saying it's impossible - obviously you can simply slap Star Wars names for the factions and change the names of resources or whatever. I am very familiar with Dune and find Dune: Imperium to be rather thematic. It costs water to get spice...in the desert. You can't fight on Dune while you take an action in space. Harkonnen favor intrigue while Atreides favor card draw - relating to the treachery Harkonnen are known for and the prescience the Atreides are known for. The Fremen faction cares about troops and water, while the Spacing Guild cares about spice and can transport agents and troops anywhere. The Bene Gesserit faction cares about intrigue and can punish someone who is collecting too many of them, but they can also draw cards (sculpt the future). The emperor represents wealth and will give you money or take your spice and give you money, troops, and intrigue cards. I could go on, but I think you see my point.
I think the theme comes through all throughout and drips with headcannon narrative as I play. I took out that animal and lost a tribe member. Sacrifices villages migrations. Worship and ceremony. I just disagree all the way that it's euro first theme second. I'm with Chris on this one.
This game really did not do it for me... First with all those mini modules and mini extra rules, it is annoying to not really know how the game was intended to be played... The mechanisms are fine but all those mini games were not that interesting... But finally, these is one of those games (like Arnak) in which you dont do much at all in your first round, but then on the 3rd and last round, one could go cook a meal while the other player spends 15min considering all the possible moves...
I'm surprised that none of you mentioned one aspect of the game that is a criticism (as fun as the game is). Do you not find that in Round 4 (or the final round) of the game that you can do "too much" on your turn? Like no matter what path to victory you picked, you can just buy up every card in the game you want, get a bunch of animals, do a decent megalith job etc? Like the first couple of rounds didn't have much impact because you can just own everything you want at the end?
Hey Luke. First of, i love your channel. Usually we have a very common taste in Games.
But here i have to say:
We played the game about 20 times in our group. This is simply not true. Yes you can do more in your last turn (as you should) but your first turns are crucial, especiall if playing against experienced opponents. In this game you can get so many points if you prepare it in the first rounds.You wouldnt believe it.
It seems to me a lot of your oppinion comes from not playing it often enough to see all the ways your early turns effect your outcome. Also you can spice the game up a lot with the Ancestors module. Different animals make it so that they dont bring endgame points but rather strong bonuses every eclipse phase.
@@brettgeschichten7246 I've played with those animals, they are cool and I like to use them but it's not what I mean. In the 5-6 times I've played the game I've found that I have the ability to go nuts on the last round. More nuts than I would expect given how fairly tight round 1 and 2 is. That's my concern.
@@TheBrokenMeeple ah okay i see were you are coming from. I kinda like this gameplay. It tells a story in my head that my tribe has become stronger and can achieve more in the last two eras. But as i mentioned for us this never was a problem, we found that if you play against an evenly skilled opponent you will loose if you dont use your first eras smart. Especially Era two is quite crucial since you may consider getting first player in era 3 to get the better culture cards and sacred stones.
But i understand your concerns. As for my group this game is our favorite out of Dune, Arnak and this one.
It just adds to the sense of build up. You've worked for the last three rounds to get to this stage. It works both mechanically and thematically. After hundreds of years the tribe does more than just survive, it thrives. Weird thing to get hung up on.
I felt the same way (assuming you mean last "round" not last then, but have only played it solo. I don't think that would happen OTB with 3-4 players as you can't get all your megaliths and villages out, max your tracks on the final turn, etc. when there is more contention that an AI can't "see."
However, the same "criticism" can be leveled at Everdell. There it is a huge win and the limited tableau turns it into a game strategy mechanic. Here the question is why this is a big deal? Being able to buy a ton of cards at the end matters little since they are only a point, they do nothing but their eclipse (which doesn't have that much value/is dependent on a track that is not to be raced down), and is just an endgame minmax.
Also, even here it is balanced. the worst ROI main action for the final turn would be culture (basically buy 1-2 cards at great cost which is like 2-4VP, but that. is the place you get scoring tiles which can be very swingy so it is still valid. Similar balance exists throughout the game.
As long as it doesn't feel too easy to max an area, that is enough. Even if you do, the lesser action mechanic offers hidden value (for instance, in final eclipse scoring, the card action isn't wasted because it is the 2nd highest in the tier and can be traded down for movement in the board. Similar if mid game you run out of megaliths.…
I can't believe Tom hates this game.
he is more like a hater than a reviewer rn
If you think this game is procedural, try Comancheria ;)
God, you have years of experience and u still cant use your mics correctly, this video is full of noise.. cmon
This game is definitely too long, would never play it with more than 2. Even more egregiously, individual turns are quite long because they involve so many different actions/steps. I feel like I need to houserule it to somehow allow somewhat simultaneous turns.
I normally like board games with a Stone Age theme, but I find "Endless Winter" incredibly boring.
And I think the mechanics are pretty miserable. Almost every mechanic is just slightly touched. The worker placement part is small and pointless, the animal hunting isn't fully developed and the area control is not interesting. And I think that pumping multiple cards into one action to pay for it or to make it better is not a good mechanic. And putting away cards for a later evaluation is an even worse mechanic. The deck building is probably the best part of the game because of the technology cards.
Endless Winter is a theme-less Euro, thank god for Tom calling it out!
Geez, Tom has such hatred for this game!
I would like to see a top 10... worst games with tiny writing on cards etc
Only an 8? I can't believe you hate this game Tom. :O
Dune's theme is non existent. I love the game but saying it has theme beyond its visual trappings seems like a stretch. It also feels like Tom is searching for ways to justify his dislike, which people often do, its fine to just say you dont like something. But come on, multiple tents banding together to form a village clearly makes thematic sense.
Uh get a poll going, I guarantee the majority will say that Dune Imperium has a stronger tie to its theme than does Endless Winter. Doesn't mean EW is the themeless, but it's not very comparable to Dune in this regard.
Was going to say the same about Dune: Imperium. Completely pasted on with no thematic integration.
Dune Imperium has no theme.
It just have Artwork from the movies.
I am sorry but when i play Dune it feels completly dry and mechanical.
Endless Winter might not be the most thematic game ever but everything makes sense.
Even the monolith part tom mentioned, your clan trys to build the biggest monolith to please the spirits makes totaly sense to me
@@brettgeschichten7246 Completely disagree personally. Going up the different house tracks & reaping the individual benefits is very much thematic. Also engaging in the battles, gaining research, having unique leaders and character cards with abilities that make sense thematically... From a euro perspective, Dune:I practically drips theme. You can point out that technically all games have pasted on themes, but imo that's a silly oversimplification. That's not to say that EW also doesn't have any thematic ties, but I do personally think it is a lesser tie than with Dune:I.
@@fingolfinfinwe its funny how different taste can be, a good friend of mine says the same. I really can not see it. Everytime i sit down to play Dune i can just see a puzzle to get to 10 WP as fast as possible, could be any other theme aswell. When i put EW on my table my brain starts to tell a story. Just funny how different people see stuff.
Good try to hate this game Tom 🤣😂🤣
Greatly disliked this game. 3-4/10. Lots elements that I like on paper, but nothing fit together well. Everything felt half baked... and sorry, but no, the iconography wasn't good.
Game isn’t fun or exciting. Nothing happens.
if a game isnt explainable and makes sense to most people in about 5 minutes, its probably a bad game.