The Goldwing DCT has been around for 6 model years with thousands produced and ONE customer has a repeated problem and now the DCT is crap. Give me a break.
I've had my 2019 DCT Tour going on 3 years now and I learned that I needed to practice all the time just to understand that "friction zone"...around 3-5 mph and yes, dragging the rear brake. Above that speed the clutch is engaged fully. The bike has a clutch overheat light on the dash...I've never seen it on while practicing. I am seriously doubting how much brake and throttle this gentlemen was giving this clutch pack in order to smoke two of them in 3 weeks... this has to be rider error, sorry but there are SO many of these out there without problems like this...
I have never noticed the clutch overheat light. I will need to look into its locations. I do slow maneuvers, but I keep the speed at 10 to 12 mph. This is slow enough for what most will need on a bike while on the road. I am not doing police drills. LOL. The slowest would be 5 to 8mph. I have never seen an overheal light come on. So, guess my technique isn't hurting much. I have 34k on the bike and have done a lot of parking lot maneuvers on it. Do you have a general location the light is located on the dash?
@@moose3971 On the top of the instrument cluster to right of the Steering lock indicator and to the left of the Smartkey signal warning and High Beam indicator. The explanation is on page 181 of your owner's manual. Glad to hear you're not having any problems either.
Before this issue was discussed, I practiced slow speed maneuvers many times on my 2021 DCT GoldWing, however, I always turned off the automatic shifting and used the paddle shifters only, so it would stay in first or second. I think this makes a big difference. I didn't like the fact that the DCT was always trying to upshift during the slow speed turns. I have 24,000 miles on the bike now with no issues. I don't do much slow speed training any more!
I am riding my second Goldwing DCT and have experienced ZERO ISSUES ! This smacks of retribution and faithfulness to Goldwings of yesteryear. ALL Goldwing's systems are superior to most competition sub-systems. Advice: Fear not the future, for it holds many wonders you have yet to dream! DCT RULES ! NO? Try it (at least 5,000 miles) and you will never go back. Good Rides
In 15 years at a Honda dealer, we have seen a grand total of 1 regular clutch Goldwing need replacing. Have never seen or heard of DCT clutch issues. That being said, we have seen many Victory clutches fail due to low speed training by Police dept and Motorcycle course trainers, a couple of Suzuki DL's . So to me this rider was/ is doing something abnormal to kill a clutch in 3 weeks. Going to watch the listed video to hear the story. This is good info if true.
Since I have owned my 2020 DCT Tour, I have not heard even one major issues with the DCT. You can push so much on any mechanical devise on this planet before something will go wrong. Some riders have already 100K on an 18 DCT and zero issues. I have no doubt that my DCT will survive many...many miles ahead. I am not worried a bit. Yes, everything has limitations, the DCT too. Don't push it and you will be fine. Also, It says in the manual, if park uphill, do not use the DCT as a holding mechanism to stop the bike, HILL ASSIST must be used or either brake. That alone explain. I can't blame HONDA at all!!! They are not stupid. To all, don't have doubts owning a DCT or buying one. I have 15K on mine with ZERO issues.
Ok, I think most people agree that slow speed maneuvers being done all the time is extremely hard on any motorcycle clutch whether or not it's an automatic or standard, because you have to use the friction zone and rear brake most of the time. I've watched and learned a lot watching Jerry Palladino and Robert Simmons (very skilled retired motor officers), but doing it all the time they often have to upgrade the clutch and rear brake. The wing is very nimble, I'm 72 years old and have no trouble doing a quick u turn but have no interest in destroying my motorcycle burning up a clutch so I can brag about how slow I can maneuver it
We have a ton of dcts around here, 0 issues what so ever. We are all hearing this from one side. So now because of this one issue with one bike, it drams all dcts no good😂🤷♂️🙈
Still no excuse for - poor build quality - poor communication (both in writing and speaking) - poor customer service Honda (with a few minor exceptions) stood for solid quality justifying performance cutbacks or price markups. Now it’s just international corporate moneymilking from a somewhat loyal nostalgia customer base.
I don't know what his G/Wing went thru but based on '01 thru '17 past history, I've never known anyone to have to replace a clutch on these bikes. And I've seen plenty with 200K.(and more) miles on them. Many pulling a trailer for decades. Any predictions of good or bad will be based on miles use and history, for which the DCT in the 'Wing only has 5 years and very limited number of units and mileage. Time will tell the story. Maybe revisit this in 10 years or so.
Honda has had a DCT bike out for about 10 years (maybe longer). Clutch failures on the DCT would likely come from doing lots of slow speed drills. Regular slow speed maneuvers in a parking lot occasionally isn't going to be a problem. Don't know this guy, but if he's an instructor or is in regular competitions, he should get himself a manual gearbox version. The DCT isn't a good choice for those purposes anyway based on it's behavior at low speeds. I have a 2015 CTX700 DCT (new in '17) and have had zero problems with the bike as a whole.
@@mikeb8342 no matter how the dude used it, unless the usage instructions of the owner’s manual or other binding documentation have been violated, he should be fully covered by warranty and Honda customer service for such an expensive motorcycle. Otherwise, Honda should state specifically in a document that “continuous” slow-speed maneuvering over extended time periods must be avoided. I do not own that model so it’s hypothetical, but after having owned many bikes over the years I wouldn’t have come across such a restrictive text passage in any of the owner’s manuals so far. However, they usually do include no-brainer legal limitation statement’s like “DO NOT EXCEED THE LEGAL SPEED LIMIT”, “DO NOT DRINK BATTERY ACID”, “DO NOT WHEELIE”… So I’d be curious if the DCT Gold Wing manual has any particular legal statement on slow-speed usage. Edit: I just took a look at the Online Owner’s Manual for a 1800 DCT - It DOES NOT seem to state anything related to avoiding slow-speed maneuvers -> on the contrary, it even has a SPECIFIC slow-speed assist mode (“walking speed mode”) intended for getting through (or out of) tight spots. So the guy has good chances in court to plausibly claim “acting in good faith” and that it can be even expected that the bike was designed to carry out slow-speed maneuvering without any limitation.
As I understand it, this is the only clutch complaint that has surfaced. There are thousands of Goldwing/DCT units out there. Has there been any other issues of this type, or is this a one off.? I too, have a DCT on my Honda, do a lot of parking lot slow speed practice, and have had no clutch problems.
surely there is more to the story. I ride with several guys with DCTs and none of them have issues. I'm wondering what he is calling training and how much of it he is doing. It just doesn't make sense that he would have two back to back and in only 3 weeks.
To my recollection the guy said he was an instructor, hence the unusually heavy law speed use, as opposed to attending a course or occasionally practicing slow speed riding. Even so, whilst many will argue that the bike wasn't designed for such use, a standard GL1800 will have coped because the rider wouldn't have dragged the clutch. So if a DCT deals with slow speed riding by putting greater stress on the clutch then a buyer should be warned about this.
Yeah that is true from the MSF courses I've attended. Instructors to beat clutch and lower gears. I remember an article long time ago someone was proving you could ride a DCT in slow maneuvers. The discussion back then no one was sure if you could and hesitated buying the DCT due to that. So what ever they were doing may have done the damage?
@@michaelhoare5291 wow, didn't realize he was an instructor. First, I am shocked he would not have bought the standard so he could demonstrate the friction zone. Second, I would hope Honda designed the DCT to be stronger than that. Its just a weird story
I'm not surprised. Sounds like a lawsuit is in order. Honda refused to fix my transmission when it seized and shattered. That was $1700 back in 2015 on my 2014 Goldwing.
You mentioned that "insurance" had replaced his bike. Do you know what kind of insurance? I'd purchase some of that. Also, at about 2:06, you say nobody intentionally slips the clutch. That's what all this "friction zone" slow riding is about. Using the brakes and slipping the clutch. The straight shifts will handle this type use for a fairly long time. Evidently not the DCT. I think Honda will deny claims relating to the DCT for bikes with a trailer hitch too. Hope I'm wrong, but that's what I see coming. It's a shame Honda decided that the Airbag model is only available with DCT.
I am surprised that slow riding maneuvers in a parking lot is any different than riding slowly in congested traffic on a highway. I have had to do this for many miles when an interstate has a lane or two closed for an accident or construction.
Something doesn't sound right. I feel bad for the guy but I wonder if he's dragging (or holding) the rear brake EXCESSIVELY and continually applying acceleration, and practising these slow speed manoeuvres for extremely long periods and therefore building extreme clutch heat. Any machine can be broken if abused long enough. To do the same thing to two bikes, in such a short period, really makes me wonder.
Question for that Honda PR Rep: Are you saying that several hours each week of commuting in stop and go big-city traffic voids your warranty? 3 weeks of practicing THE most critical maneuvers to master and stay sharp on? DCT values are about to take a nose-dive.
Thats nonsense. I've been riding for 50 years and it was not "mandatory" that I practice these "critical maneuvers". I also am a former racer. I've had 3 DCT bikes and I think its the best technology since ABS. The type of artificial "maneuvers" undertaken in these programs is simply not compatible with the Goldwing and DCT. So what. I agree with the folks that point to the likely millions of trouble free miles with DCT and awesome performance it offers. I love my NT1100 DCT and admire Honda for developing this technology for motorcycles. Because DCT is unique to Honda many folks like me are now customers for life. Honda and DCT "where have you been all my life"! 🙂
@@paineys3341 That's not what I inferred. Simply slipping an automatic clutch to perform maneuvers that are artificial and not indiciative of anything, means that the bike doesn't react well to going around some cones at a certain speed and a certain way. One can be a competent, safe motorcyclist while never having performed those artificial maneuvers. Plus performing those maneuvers constantly dozens and dozens of times has no real connection to reality. Someone invented those maneuvers which then made the jump that if you can't perform these exercises your not competent. Nonsense. If a DCT equipped motorcycle has difficulty performing these made up maneuvers it's mean absolutely zilch. In the "real world" the DCT applied technology works just fine. I don't need the maneuvers to be a skilled safe competent rider and a DCT equipped bike can be a safe competent machine without the artificial exercise. It's just reality versus a someone's concept of what supposedly makes for a skilled rider. If a DCT bike does not tolerate this "made up" exercise so what. Don't do the exercise 100's of times as that's just not reality.
@@paineys3341 Actually if you believe that mastering those maneuvers makes someone a safe rider Jesus that's scary. A safe rider encompasses much much more than running circles around some cones. Give me a break!
@@sunrisejak2709 you should be able to do slow speed manoeuvres with competence, Im not talking about cones but control of your bike, I have seen riders with years of experience being shown up by newbies who have took the time to master slow riding skills... see so many BAD riders not lifting there feet as soon as the bike is moving. Those skills should be MASTERED before you are granted your licence, not learned after! The UK has the second hardest bike licence test in the world, you have to take a total of 4 tests BEFORE you are allowed on the road, one of those tests include figure 8's , slow walking pace riding and a lot more, here in the USA most times its a simple ride around the parking lot and off you go. I still say a so called top of the range motorcycle should be able to do slow riding all day long, what happens in busy traffic, lots of clutch slip, so guess Honda should be saying only to ridden on a open road, any conditions where the clutch slip required will not be covered by warranty
@@tjclarke4604 The bikes were repeatedly used to do parking lot maneuvers between cones. This is also not normal use and will cause abnormal wear on even a regular clutch. For the same individual to have the same problem on two different bikes, something is going on.
If your doing slow maneuvering your are constantly in the friction zone (slipping the clutch). In DCT you’ll need to use the rear brake, which causes excessive heat in the clutch, even in a manual clutch. If your already a friction zone expert, like a law enforcement motor officer, then the DCT will be fine, as you’ll not need to go out and constantly train, just a few figure 8’s a week to keep the edge sharp will suffice. But if you’re less than that then you need a manual clutch to practice with!!! And the fact Honda replaced the first bike?…..that’s an amazing motor Corp! I’m having to file a lemon law suit on Harley Davidson for a “friction zone” issue on a 2019 Ultra Limited, due to their “inability “ to correct an acknowledged engineering defect.
I am not familiar with GWs, but a transmission cooler with a continuously running fan at low speeds should work. And a transmission fluid temperature gauge. And a service bulletin from Honda that specifies the normal operating temperature range of a DCT transmission.
Coming from the transportation and heavy truck industry I wondered about this possibility from the get go being I’ve seen clutch failure in other electronically controlled units that seemed premature and or repetitive. Now we know 👍🏼
Being a retired truckdriver, this classified to me why I saw a message on the Volvo dash "clutch protection enabled". I was going uphill in stop and go traffic in Tracy CA when I saw it. I was new to the auto trucks having only driven manuals. I had another Volvo and the auto trans went out at 400k miles in Wenatchee WA then after the rebuild, it went out again 2 weeks later near Bakersfield. I think I would save the money and buy the manual version GW. If I wanted auto, I'd just get a scooter.
I don't know... could be a size weight thing. I did a lot of slow practice drills for 30 to 90 minutes a day for a few weeks worth when I first got my 2021 Rebel 1100 DCT... only thing I wore out was my back brakes faster than my front... I haven't done that in a long time now though, I just ride normal. 20,000 miles later and still 0 issues, just normal maintenance and items I expect to wear out (like tires, chains, and sprockets, etc)
Taught myself on a ‘19 NC750X DCT, taught the wife on a ‘15 CTX700 DCT, currently ride ‘22 Rebel 1100 DCT and I’m on a ‘23GW DCT tour. Have never had DCT issues practicing slow speed maneuvers. You will be fine just don’t do 4+ hours a day with no cool down periods for the bike and you’ll be fine
Maybe if there was some indication of when the clutch is slipping, that'd pop up on the screen, that would give us more of a clue as to what's going on. It strikes me that if Honda makes it a black box system, that we can't know what's happening inside it while it's in use, then Honda needs to program & engineer that system such that even edge cases like continually practising slow speed skills doesn't damage the bike. If they're going to shift the onus onto the rider, then we need some information as to what's going on & when within the DCT box.
Wrong. We do not need a dashboard indicator for everything. That guy destroyed two bikes on purpose. Seems he is not qualified to run machinery. Ah, and btw. Deliberate destruction is abuse by the very definition of it.
Wow, I was just texting a week or so ago wit h a couple of my buddies that have DCTs on this issue I saw somewhere else and here it detailed by the "Honda Expert" that we all respect!
I remember an video where they were doing slow speed maneuvering with a GW and they used the brake a lot to keep the transmission engaged. I could see where doing this a lot would be detrimental to the clutch. I thought it had more of a automatic transmission type torque converter set up.
I’m very skeptical when new stuff comes out.. there’s always bugs in them. Since I’m deaf, your TH-cam wasn’t captioned for deaf. Probably show up few hours later. I’ve seen DCT owners has issues with theirs, one in Texas broke down on him twice, got mad traded it off, another broke down… now stated it’s human destructive and voided his warranties. Those guys are down in Texas. I refuse buy DCT now. Still riding my 1990 1500 Goldwing. I was going buy Harley Davidson trike but they too have issues.
Slow TH-cam captions are the worst 😞... there are other ways to to speech to text though if you are in a rush, but can be even more inaccurate... like Chrome Live Captions. That said... my Rebel 1100 DCT going 20,000+ miles strong with no issues, but I wonder how much the extra weight of the Goldwing factors in.
Greetings, I am currently considering acquiring a new Goldwing DCT & would appreciate advice regarding using the Manual Mode in first gear as enumerated in Jerry P’s video instead of in DCT mode when performing slow speed maneuvers. Will this avert the possibility of clutch damage? This method evidently eliminates annoyance of the DCT changing gears during slow speed turns. My understanding is that the clutch is fully and not partially engaged in this event & speed control is accomplished with throttle & brake which will lead to minor accelerated brake wear instead of clutch wear during limited practice. If this is indeed correct is it enumerated in the Goldwing DCT Owners Manual? Informed advice is appreciated. 🙏
This story gets more attention than it deserves. What is the actual data on DCT clutch failures? Personally this the only story I'm aware of and these transmissions have been out for over ten years in various iterations and usages. Before we collectively light our hair on fire I think it's important to balance the story out with some real world data, not anecdotal or just one persons experience.
Not in use on the G/Wing for 10 years. I don't think it's accurate to compare side by sides, 4 wheelers, Honda N series 700 and 1100 bikes, Africa Twin, etc. These do not represent use in a G/Wing any more than Porche and Audi autos with DCT.
If failures are this rare, then Honda should simply cover it and move on. The cost to them is trivial …. If these are truly rare failures. Now, if they aren’t so rare, then the cost would be much higher for Honda.
So constant low speed riding wears the clutch but what about the low speeds your going to incur in everyday riding? The clutch isn't getting that hot normally but as we see, it's still wearing and probably at a faster rate than you would think.
Everyone should send emails or letters to Honda about this issue and this needs to be covered as it could become a safety issue as well especially if the clutch goes out when one is on the highway. Should be covered under the warranty
An honest video. Buy a different motorcycle if you want to ride around a parking lot all day in 1rst gear. I have to side with Honda on this. They gave him a new clutch and then he does the same thing and gets the same result. It reminds me of people who put a cheater pipe on a ratchet and when the ratchet breaks they want to warranty the ratchet.
Do we know the entire story,...was the owner made aware after fixing his 2020 the constant low speed maneuvers caused the problem, he said he was not, or was he? If he actually was made aware, than Honda has a point. The DCT have been extremely reliable. For the same person to trash 2 transmissions in that short period of time, I believe sometime is amiss
If all you did was slow speed maneuvers and stayed in the friction zone of a standard manual tranny, you would burn that clutch out as well, and in very short order. Don't see the design issue here.
This true and has been documented on other forums, including goldwing forums, where riders have posted about having clutch problems after doing slow speed riding. AKA, parking lot practice.
Not only does this explain what will happen regardless of the mode used. It details just how expensive it will be to repair/replace the clutch in a DCT cycle.
Slow speed maneuvers are in every safety course out there. If DCT can't hack it, Honda needs to let owners know their bikes won't be covered under warranty. I rode a brand new DCT Wing today and found the bike to be utterly boring. It was very predictable and shifts were so smooth it's like driving a CVT car. A snore fest. My 18 Wing was far more sporty feeling and if I get another one, it will be a manual. My bet is the BMW Gt 1600 will be a different story if I can ever make it in to test one out.
I own a DCT Tour. I also own a R1250GS and getting ready to pull the trigger on a K1600GTL. I rode one and it's amazing. It's fast, mostly comfortable (a bit cramped for my 6"1' frame) and shifts like a dream. I swear it makes a "schnick" sound when you shift it. Do be aware, they have their issues too, but their customer service is far superior to modern Honda CS.
@@Myrune1 I rode a BMW and it wheelies no problem. Very fast bike but not comfortable to my old joints and it was jittery like a race horse. Handling was excellent but you had to constantly adjust so I found another manual 2018 GW and bought it. They are both exceptional machines, it just depends on your preferences. I would actually like to have both.
Does this apply to the manual transmission as well? Mine only has 1200 miles on it and I'm getting a whining noise between 1500 and 2000 RPM under loaded conditions only.
it will in some ways, yes... depending how much you speed up and slow down, how fast you go, and what riding mode you are in, it will sometimes try to go to second and back to first a lot too. If doing slow skills, I found it best to make sure to use manual mode and leave it in first only.
Thanks for the heads up, Scott! Myself, I'd not buy a new Wing with a DCT trans. I'll take a standard trans model, thank you. I saw the post in the website, so am aware of what has happened. I'd be calling a lawyer if I were dclinton.
I rode with a guy who would blow the engine in every single sled he ever owned. The rest of us rode the same sled with no issues. Can that please be explained.
Definitely not taking any low speed classes now on my new Wing. Thanks again for posting this and making me aware before I destroyed my clutch. Abuse. This is a really bad look for Honda.
For anyone to take anything from this one incident is pure insanity. There are far too many variables that haven't been addressed to draw any conclusions from. I have seen firsthand DCT Goldwings go thru an entire 3 week police motorcycle course with no ill effects. The key to that accomplishment was the skill levels of the riders. They all set the engine mode at what they felt most comfortable and "lightly" applied rear brake when they needed it. They didn't run constant rear brake nor did they ever get heavy on the rear brake. We don't know how skilled the person is that blew out his DCT, but apparently he didn't learn a thing from his first bike to his second bike. And just because someone claims to be a motorcycle instructor doesn't mean they are a good motorcycle instructor. No manufacturer warrantees clutches on their motorcycles regardless of time in use. I have seen clutches on manual shift bikes go south in 20 minutes with an unskilled operator who used the rear brake as a crutch for his poor riding skills. There have been times when a manufacturer MAY elect to replace a worn clutch, but that is far and few in between. Clutches are a wear item that the factory has no control over how they are used. So with this in mind the owner of this problem should have been well aware of what was going on and adjusted or improved his riding skills BEFORE he hit the track once again. How many DCT's is Honda supposed to give this guy before he learns? The owner of the two Goldwing's must have little in the way of common sense going for him, or he would have, or should have known that he needs to let the bike cool down after a few minutes in the cones, but this was another area not stipulated to. If he stayed in slow cone patterns for lengthy time periods then shame on him. Stupid is as stupid does. Worse yet is that people that should know better pick up the torch and flame Honda when they don't have all the facts, or know anything about the rider/owner other than he is allegedly an instructor and apparently not a very good one. You can't keep committing the same mistakes over and over again without making changes and expect different results. It doesn't work that way. I for one would have loved to see what condition the rear brake pads were on these two Goldwings as that would tell the whole story about how the bike was ridden. Unfortunately that aspect wasn't discussed by the person posting this garbage. Remember too that a Goldwing is NOT designed for this type of riding. It is designed for something entirely different and using one in extended cone pattern sessions is not advisable. This one falls on the owner of the bike who clearly abused it to the point of damaging not one, but two DCT's. Rick H.
If it's not in the owners manual not to do that it should be covered. Sounds like Honda needs to be going back to the drawing board and refunding all money spent on Goldwing Clutches and maybe even a recall may be in order. So in bumper to bumper traffic it sounds like that will also destroy the Goldwing clutch as it stands today. Not good at all. And the manual trans bike will do this all with no problem. What about trailer towing?? Sounds bleek for Honda!! Engineering seems to be getting a do over at customer expense......... 🤔 it all boils down to a Lawsuit!!
My question is, what if you dont do slow speed riding and you just ride it. Will it still fail? Yeah, probably after the warranty expires. And dealers don't want to work on bikes older than 10 yrs old. So basically, the bike will be junk. It's best to get a manual. Hopefully, this is not an ongoing problem for honda with the DCT.
This isn’t new technology. Hondas had DCT in various bikes since 2010. This is a SINGULAR incident, with a SINGULAR bike, being used by an instructor in a training course. I’ve had 4 DCT bikes in the ram the last 5 years and not single one failed ANYTHING while I learned slow speed maneuvers. I don’t even need to drag brake at 1-4MPH for my slow speed stuff. I just use pure throttle for all my maneuvers at slow speed.
Meh. No mention of how many hours training, miles put on during training, or speed used during slow speed training. With almost 60,000 miles on my Tour DCT, I've had no problems and no complaints.
Honda needs to issue some guidance on how to do slow speed maneuvers on their DCT bikes or people are just going to stop buying them. That's half their sales on those models, give or take. C'mon Honda - tell us how to do slow speed maneuvers without damaging the clutch.
Thats why i didn't buy the DCT model. i have a manual clutch and do alot of slow speed parking lot practice with zero problems. DCT would be fun for travelling and the open road. Bill.
Being that this is the only instance of this issue I have heard or read about, I gotta think it's something he's doing for it to happen to 2 different bikes. 4 years on mine and still shifts and rides great.
I'm a Honda fan boi and Rider Coach. I teach Moto Skills and used my DCT Goldwing, but now use my BMW R1250GS. All of that being said. I fully believe this is a Honda issue and should be covered. Know this; Honda will never, never, never speak a word of this publicly. Further, they will not help that guy no matter what. Ask me how I know. They truly suck for customer service and there's at least one rep I actively hate. I don't even hate my ex, but this clown earned all of my ire. Not only that, they were smart mouthed about it too. Soichiro Honda, would be rolling over in his grave seeing how Honda America CS acts and treats his customers. Why? Because they can.
Wow. I remember the Trail 70 or 90 or something that had no manual clutch but still shifted manually back in the 70's. When Honda put this out and there was no shift lever or clutch I was very skeptical. when CPU's control stuff its just a nightmare especially in the first few years of iteration. I've learned from MANY a "New Car of the Year" examples that ya just DO NOT BUY a first or second year BRAND NEW design. I chose to not be Honda's Beta Tester and thankful I made that choice. Sure is funny how they all of a sudden are throwing away their business model and touring customers. Bye Bye Honda for me.
Nothing wrong with computer control, just as long as they're programmed properly, and the control systems engineered to not fail catastrophically with normal use. Honda needs to get it into their heads that gymkhana riding is a normal use they should be factoring into their design. If their bike can't do what a manual bike can do then they need to be honest about it. Is this something a software update could fix or is it so inherent to the DCT engineering that there's no easy patch or workaround?
Still shifts even in manual mode. At least from 1st to 2nd. in my experience with my DCT. I usually practice at 10mph min when possible. but only for 5 to 10 min at a time. This is a crock Honda: get your crap together, LOL.
@@moose3971 I have had 2 dct now and never has the bike ever shifted on its own from 1st to 2nd ever so I am still not understanding how this guy is screwing up his transmission on his goldwing I uave done low speed manuevers in manual in first gear for hrs no problem I always kept the bike at 10mph or less never had a problem with transmission anyway my 2 DCT bikes do not shift by themselves in manual from 1st to 2nd gear this is the first I ever heard of that one
@@michaelsloane1034 I think u are correct, I bet I’m thinking backwards. Seems like it shifted. must be from 2 to 1st if speed is not high enough . Maybe it’s my lack of riding on account of winter lol.
If I am in manual mode my 2 DCT bikes never shift up unless I shift it now they will down shift on its own in manual mode if RPM is low enough but they never shift up from 1st 2nd in manual mode
So the warranty of the Honda 'DCT Goldwing' doesn't cover the clutch? The clutch is what the 'DCT' is all about. Perhaps this denial came from a lower level of corporate? I sure hope so.
This just doesn't stack up against the multitudes of DCT owners that have had zero issues. If you are riding with a "Drill team" you will find issues with many components of the bike. I know riders who ride precision for fun , most have Harley Police models , with heavy duty clutches and even special brake fluid as the stock stuff will boil during excessive rear brake dragging. All in all practice occasionally but if you want to do police type competition the DCT isn't the right bike . I'd buy another in a minute !
If it's not able to handle any kind of use then it's a flawed design and needs more development. It's as simple as that. Oh and any country doesn't have consumer protection laws and allows Honda to turn around and say they're not going to honour a warranty, is ridiculous. They wouldn't have the balls to even suggest that in the EU.
Scott, in trying to find information on where the gl1500 rear shock air pressure sensor is located... All I'm finding online is "replace the shocks" and tpms problems... Any help would be lovely
Never thought I would hear those news from the company that used to make the best cruiser in the world. Guess this will affect people wir a DCT Africa Twin too and they certainly do slow speeding doing off road riding. Not good Honda…
No way. Honda is usually good with their warranty. Now if the rider is doing something that bad, then I think Honda should not cover it. My friend bought a Harley and he was riding his bike hard. I think warranty covered him twice and the 3rd time Harley say that was enough. If Honda already helped replace his bike then it would be questionable for the 2nd bike.
This is crappy. I knew this about dcts because vw’s Dct is the same thing, no creeping in traffic like you would a torque converter transmission. How is the average Joe supposed to know this ?
I have been riding since 1968. Dirt bikes, street bikes, motocross bikes, trials bikes which are very hard on clutches, road racing machines. I’ve had three Yamaha ventures, I’ll BMW K 1200 LT, a gl1800 Goldwing.. One of my production road racing machines has more than 120 launches on it it starts of heat races and final road races. I have never had a clutch fail in any of my machines ever. My first venture was a 1986 with 138,000 miles on it. Original clutch.. I was very interested in buying the new V twin Yamaha venture. But no dealer around me ever had one in stock for me to even see one. They wanted a deposit before they would order one. I was there the first month they were announced in 2018, and here it is March 2023 and I still have never seen a new V twin Yamaha venture .. when I was shopping, I was considering the new goldwing also.. I had just sold my GL 1800 Goldwing which was, as all gold wings are, perfect, except of course, the four-way flasher module. I made the mistake of turning the four-way flashers on one evening, and I could not get them to turn off, I rode over 70 miles home with the four ways on in the dark..I went on youtube to see how to fix it, and it turns out that is a very common problem with that motorcycle which is very surprising to me that Honda would have a widespread problem like that. I even went on eBay in hopes of finding a used one, there were a few used ones on there, and they all had many bids on them, and the auctions were not over yet. They were hundreds of dollars for used ones…. I ended up getting mine to free up by drilling a small hole in it and squirting electrical contact cleaner in the unit, and never touching that four-way flasher button again.. when I sold the bike I told the new owner of the problem and to never use the four ways.. so when I was shopping for a replacement possibly a new Goldwing, I started hearing about the transmission problems,A riding acquaintance of mine is a hopelessly loyal Goldwing rider. He and his riding buddy had just bought leftover 2017 gold wings. The reason they bought leftovers is because, they traded in their 2018 goldwings in on the leftover 17s. They did not like the 18s as much as they liked the 2012 and 2015 models they traded in on the 18s… their wives also did not like the 18s because they said they didn’t have the luggage capacity or the comfort of the older versions.. well from my point of view at that time, I had just sold my GL 1800, and my buddy convinced me not to get one of the 18s.. so I knew I did not want to buy another BMW, or a newer Goldwing, and I have never got a chance to see the Yamaha venture V-twin. So I bought an older Yamaha royal star venture with very low miles from the original owner. like I said earlier it’s my third venture. I had an 86, a 2002, and now I have a 2008 here in 2023. I have videos on TH-cam of the maintenance chores I performed on it. I also have a video on youtube stating what my impressions of each machine is between the GL 1800 and my current Yamaha royal star venture.. A shock to me is, my video has over 51,000 views in less than a year, and over 600 thumbs up.. I say in my video that goldwing buyer?? perfect, but their Achilles’ heel is, they are so hard to work on. I used to be a motorcycle mechanic at several different shops. So I have always always done my own maintenance. I can do just about everything except cylinder boring, and two-stroke triple crankshaft rebuilding.. I don’t have the jigs for that but I can do single and twin crankshaft rebuilds/truing.. I look at a Goldwing this way. They can go easily 200,000 miles with basic maintenance. OK The air cleaners take approximately six hours to change. I thought that was ridiculous that it would cost over $600 to have an air cleaner changed so I did the job myself. And it is not ridiculous to charge six hours labor because that’s how long it takes.. I went step-by-step using the Honda official service manual, being careful, making a holder to take all of the screws that I had to remove out in sequence because many of them are all different sizes and have to go back where they came from when it comes to removing the side panels and the main cover over the engine.. OK so let’s say you have the dealer do your air cleaner change every 20,000 miles. In 200,000 miles, that’s 10 air filter changes.. The dealer labor rate is $125 an hour pretty much everywhere. Six hours to change the air filter, just the labor not counting the air filter. That’s $750 just labor to change the air filter one time over 200,000 miles, that’s $7500 to make 10 air filter changes. Just the labor.. if you’re loaded with dough, that’s no big deal. but I could take my wife out to dinner over 150 times including drinks for $7500.. that’s dinner at Applebee’s once a week for almost 3 years just to change 10 air filters.. on my venture, I can get at the starter, the stator, the slave cylinder, the clutch, and the water pump without removing a single piece of plastic, they are right on the opened. I can change the air cleaners, both of them on the venture, in about 10 minutes each, using a number to fill up screwdriver, and a 10 mm wrench.. so the subject of this video is about clutch failure on the Goldwing. The thought of having to change the clutch on my Goldwing is one of the reasons I decided that I did not want to risk having a serious issue with that motorcycle. So I sold it and went back to some thing I know is very serviceable. My royal star venture Gold wings are perfect.. but they are so hard to work on. And if you don’t do your own work, you have to marry the dealer.. stories like this video, telling us that Honda refused to service the clutch on this guy is Goldwing convinces me that I made the right choice.. i’m gonna wait till Honda comes out with a new revised Goldwing in a few years that is compliant with the European air pollution requirements which are tougher than California’s. I read that Honda is discontinuing the Goldwing six-cylinder and nine other models because they cannot possibly pass the European union air pollution standards in the near future.. I hope they come out with something like that on the Pacific coast size Goldwing. I have had two on the Pacific coasts.. my first one got totaled while I was sitting on it at a stop sign from behind. I immediately replaced it with another one which I commuted on for the next 24 years, trouble free.. 48 hp Pacific Coast V twin engine made all the power I ever needed. A replacement Goldwing with an 800 cc engine would be perfect
DCT failure. I see 2 remedy's right off the bat. Extensive slow speed for any manual vehicle is hard on any clutch. 1 - (IF it's possible) Add a trans lockup button. This keep the trans in one gear (whatever is suited for slow speed riding) and will not shift. 2 - In 'Stop-n-Go traffic Harley's are 'respectfully' allowed to ride the shoulder since they are air cooled. DCT Honda's should have the same 'respect' from the cops. I don't own one and nor am I interested. Owner repairs are becoming extremely technical & most owners are not at that level of mechanically inclined. Personally I think motorcycles needs several 'Steps back' to lower their complexity.
I have spent countless hours on my 2018 DCT Tourer in the parking lots since new. Practicing slow speed maneuvers, even though I’ve been riding motorcycles for over 50 years. I have never seen a warning indicator or experienced any issues with the DCT clutch. I’ve heard this rumor and I question it’s authenticity. There are folks that seem to like to keep the rumor alive and well. When I hear it on a platform such as this one, it also brings into question the integrity of this channel of which I have unsubscribed. No loss as those that inflate and promote rumors and act as it is urgent and trustworthy news to promote their channel… well, let’s just say I’ve had enough. Ride on DCT riders, it is the most dependable Goldwing on the market.
Very nice, except it's not just "rumor" - we have multiple DCT owners on the GoldwingDocs site all of whom are experiencing this issue. Just because you haven't experienced it yourself does not invalidate the experiences of others.
This is insane, I have been wondering what the follow up would be. Now I know. Honda shoved their finger in the customer's butt. This BS. I have worked in dealerships since 1994, and warranty SHOULD include "all manufacturing defects while being used under normal operating conditions". So Honda is saying that riding slowly is NOT normal operation of the machine? What if you ride to work a lot and are stuck in traffic on the daily? OK, I know, an automatic bike is not my thing either, and a lot of people will be saying "NeVer Get A DCT!". Right or wrong, that isn't the point. This is a manufacturer who won't stand behind their product. Very disappointing, and I am mad as hell. Automatic transmission have been around for 80 years, and Honda is telling us that they can't get it right, and that it is the buyer's fault? "I don't think so Tim" to quote Al Borland. I'd love to see a class action suit against Honda for this, maybe even have Steve Lehto cover it all on his channel, because this just ain't right.
A clutch controlled by computer should have the intelligence in the software to not overheat and wear out the clutch. Their should either be a sensor that monitors clutch temperature, or a timer that monitors how long the clutch has been only partially engaged. This is simply good engineering, not rocket science. Honda dropped the ball on this and doesn’t want to admit it. Blaming an engineering deficiency on the consumer is very poor practice by a company. Now, if the rider has a clutch lever such that the rider is the one who slipped the clutch too much, then that is on the rider. However, if the Honda computer slips the Honda clutch into oblivion, that is on Honda.
Honda Motorcycle Powersport and their Engineers are in big trouble. They know dam well that motorcyclist take Motorcycle Safety Courses which require slow speed riding. They have a lot of explaining to do. I know that Honda has two different vehicles, cars/trucks and motorcycles. All Honda vehicles with automatic transmissions basically function under the same principles. Drivers drive their vehicle at time at slow speeds and never burn out their clutches. So, Honda Motorcycle Powersport needs to explain why the transmission in a car/truck driving at slow speeds and never have a problem, but the Honda Motorcycle DCT (Dual Clutch Transmission) has had two of their DCT model burn out from slow speed riding from the same person. They should go back to the drawing board (CAD) to find out how to fix this problem. In my opinion I think it's ac software problem because the software tells the computer what to do and when to do it. About the warranty shouldn't be an issue on the DCT because the rider has no control of the clutch, whereas in a manual clutch, the rider has control of the clutch and on the manual transmission there is no warranty because the rider could abuse it. Just like clutches, brakes also are not covered by a warranty, but any vehicle with automatic transmission and the clutches burn out are and should be covered under a warranty because the clutch system was removed from the rider's control. This gentleman should take Honda Motorsports to court for this issue and be reimburse finacially. How he can find a very good lawyer to represent him.
What is the difference between lots of slow speed manoeuvres on a DCT motorcycle and driving an automatic car every day in heavy city traffic... NONE, they both require the vehicles computer to determine the amount of clutch use... HONDA this is a MAJOR design flaw!
Get a clutch model. I wouldn’t want to do slow skill maneuvers with a DCT. Part of the skill is clutching. Challenge yourself. Maybe a Goldwing isn’t for you.
Total BS Honda needs to fix the DCT clutch. I'm on edge of buying a new one surely don't want a Can Am. Clearly the fix doesn't cost that much to fix over charge by dealers so Honda doesn't take the hit which to them is a drop in the bucket
For all the wannabe experts out there: Unlike a manual transmission which is usually designed to be servicable, any sort of automatic transmission - given the considerable price markup - is supposed to last a major part of a motorcycles total lifetime expectancy and is only servicable with huge effort and cost. Thus, a Honda DCT dying TWICE within a few weeks each is nothing short of an embarassment to a corporation like Honda.
FFS If you need to ride around car parks doing that shit maybe it's time to give up riding ! Put it in RAIN mode and Manual shift mode SO CALLED problem SOLVED !
No it doesn't solve the problem. Anytime you're riding slowly, even in full manual mode, it slips the clutch. Otherwise it would bog and stall the engine.
Chris, you’re not a real rider are you? New guy? Never watched a training video or went to a class? Or maybe you have thousands of highway miles so you think you’re an “expert.” That was my problem for many thousands of miles also; until i woke up. An “expert” is just a drip under pressure.
He did. This whole thing originated BECAUSE he came forward. The link to his original post is in the description of the video, as I said multiple times IN the video.
Link to the original video describing the problem: th-cam.com/video/MJHPKIOKdIU/w-d-xo.html
The Goldwing DCT has been around for 6 model years with thousands produced and ONE customer has a repeated problem and now the DCT is crap. Give me a break.
I've had my 2019 DCT Tour going on 3 years now and I learned that I needed to practice all the time just to understand that "friction zone"...around 3-5 mph and yes, dragging the rear brake. Above that speed the clutch is engaged fully. The bike has a clutch overheat light on the dash...I've never seen it on while practicing. I am seriously doubting how much brake and throttle this gentlemen was giving this clutch pack in order to smoke two of them in 3 weeks... this has to be rider error, sorry but there are SO many of these out there without problems like this...
I have never noticed the clutch overheat light. I will need to look into its locations. I do slow maneuvers, but I keep the speed at 10 to 12 mph. This is slow enough for what most will need on a bike while on the road. I am not doing police drills. LOL. The slowest would be 5 to 8mph. I have never seen an overheal light come on. So, guess my technique isn't hurting much. I have 34k on the bike and have done a lot of parking lot maneuvers on it. Do you have a general location the light is located on the dash?
@@moose3971 On the top of the instrument cluster to right of the Steering lock indicator and to the left of the Smartkey signal warning and High Beam indicator. The explanation is on page 181 of your owner's manual. Glad to hear you're not having any problems either.
Before this issue was discussed, I practiced slow speed maneuvers many times on my 2021 DCT GoldWing, however, I always turned off the automatic shifting and used the paddle shifters only, so it would stay in first or second. I think this makes a big difference. I didn't like the fact that the DCT was always trying to upshift during the slow speed turns. I have 24,000 miles on the bike now with no issues. I don't do much slow speed training any more!
I am riding my second Goldwing DCT and have experienced ZERO ISSUES ! This smacks of retribution and faithfulness to Goldwings of yesteryear.
ALL Goldwing's systems are superior to most competition sub-systems.
Advice: Fear not the future, for it holds many wonders you have yet to dream!
DCT RULES ! NO? Try it (at least 5,000 miles) and you will never go back.
Good Rides
In 15 years at a Honda dealer, we have seen a grand total of 1 regular clutch Goldwing need replacing. Have never seen or heard of DCT clutch issues. That being said, we have seen many Victory clutches fail due to low speed training by Police dept and Motorcycle course trainers, a couple of Suzuki DL's . So to me this rider was/ is doing something abnormal to kill a clutch in 3 weeks. Going to watch the listed video to hear the story. This is good info if true.
Since I have owned my 2020 DCT Tour, I have not heard even one major issues with the DCT. You can push so much on any mechanical devise on this planet before something will go wrong. Some riders have already 100K on an 18 DCT and zero issues. I have no doubt that my DCT will survive many...many miles ahead. I am not worried a bit. Yes, everything has limitations, the DCT too. Don't push it and you will be fine. Also, It says in the manual, if park uphill, do not use the DCT as a holding mechanism to stop the bike, HILL ASSIST must be used or either brake. That alone explain. I can't blame HONDA at all!!! They are not stupid. To all, don't have doubts owning a DCT or buying one. I have 15K on mine with ZERO issues.
Ok, I think most people agree that slow speed maneuvers being done all the time is extremely hard on any motorcycle clutch whether or not it's an automatic or standard, because you have to use the friction zone and rear brake most of the time. I've watched and learned a lot watching Jerry Palladino and Robert Simmons (very skilled retired motor officers), but doing it all the time they often have to upgrade the clutch and rear brake. The wing is very nimble, I'm 72 years old and have no trouble doing a quick u turn but have no interest in destroying my motorcycle burning up a clutch so I can brag about how slow I can maneuver it
Smart man with a brain. Hard to find these days when you read a lot of the other comments.
We have a ton of dcts around here, 0 issues what so ever. We are all hearing this from one side. So now because of this one issue with one bike, it drams all dcts no good😂🤷♂️🙈
a pure BS video. Like someone said, what does this guy do with his bike. Three sides to every story, his side , Honda's side and the truth
If you read the Goldwing forum you’ll see that DCT failures are really rare. This guy was an instructor. No telling what his GW went through.
Still no excuse for
- poor build quality
- poor communication (both in writing and speaking)
- poor customer service
Honda (with a few minor exceptions) stood for solid quality justifying performance cutbacks or price markups.
Now it’s just international corporate moneymilking from a somewhat loyal nostalgia customer base.
I don't know what his G/Wing went thru but based on '01 thru '17 past history, I've never known anyone to have to replace a clutch on these bikes. And I've seen plenty with 200K.(and more) miles on them. Many pulling a trailer for decades. Any predictions of good or bad will be based on miles use and history, for which the DCT in the 'Wing only has 5 years and very limited number of units and mileage. Time will tell the story. Maybe revisit this in 10 years or so.
Honda has had a DCT bike out for about 10 years (maybe longer). Clutch failures on the DCT would likely come from doing lots of slow speed drills. Regular slow speed maneuvers in a parking lot occasionally isn't going to be a problem. Don't know this guy, but if he's an instructor or is in regular competitions, he should get himself a manual gearbox version. The DCT isn't a good choice for those purposes anyway based on it's behavior at low speeds. I have a 2015 CTX700 DCT (new in '17) and have had zero problems with the bike as a whole.
Time for this guy to lawyer up!
@@mikeb8342 no matter how the dude used it, unless the usage instructions of the owner’s manual or other binding documentation have been violated, he should be fully covered by warranty and Honda customer service for such an expensive motorcycle.
Otherwise, Honda should state specifically in a document that “continuous” slow-speed maneuvering over extended time periods must be avoided.
I do not own that model so it’s hypothetical, but after having owned many bikes over the years I wouldn’t have come across such a restrictive text passage in any of the owner’s manuals so far.
However, they usually do include no-brainer legal limitation statement’s like “DO NOT EXCEED THE LEGAL SPEED LIMIT”, “DO NOT DRINK BATTERY ACID”, “DO NOT WHEELIE”…
So I’d be curious if the DCT Gold Wing manual has any particular legal statement on slow-speed usage.
Edit:
I just took a look at the Online Owner’s Manual for a 1800 DCT - It DOES NOT seem to state anything related to avoiding slow-speed maneuvers -> on the contrary, it even has a SPECIFIC slow-speed assist mode (“walking speed mode”) intended for getting through (or out of) tight spots.
So the guy has good chances in court to plausibly claim “acting in good faith” and that it can be even expected that the bike was designed to carry out slow-speed maneuvering without any limitation.
As I understand it, this is the only clutch complaint that has surfaced. There are thousands of Goldwing/DCT units out there. Has there been any other issues of this type, or is this a one off.? I too, have a DCT on my Honda, do a lot of parking lot slow speed practice, and have had no clutch problems.
surely there is more to the story. I ride with several guys with DCTs and none of them have issues. I'm wondering what he is calling training and how much of it he is doing. It just doesn't make sense that he would have two back to back and in only 3 weeks.
I am sure he isn't the only one, probably just the first to send his story to Scott.
To my recollection the guy said he was an instructor, hence the unusually heavy law speed use, as opposed to attending a course or occasionally practicing slow speed riding. Even so, whilst many will argue that the bike wasn't designed for such use, a standard GL1800 will have coped because the rider wouldn't have dragged the clutch. So if a DCT deals with slow speed riding by putting greater stress on the clutch then a buyer should be warned about this.
Agreed. Was he racing the engine and dragging the brake hard? We don't know. We'll have to wait and see if this becomes a common problem.
Yeah that is true from the MSF courses I've attended. Instructors to beat clutch and lower gears. I remember an article long time ago someone was proving you could ride a DCT in slow maneuvers. The discussion back then no one was sure if you could and hesitated buying the DCT due to that. So what ever they were doing may have done the damage?
@@michaelhoare5291 wow, didn't realize he was an instructor. First, I am shocked he would not have bought the standard so he could demonstrate the friction zone. Second, I would hope Honda designed the DCT to be stronger than that. Its just a weird story
I'm not surprised. Sounds like a lawsuit is in order. Honda refused to fix my transmission when it seized and shattered. That was $1700 back in 2015 on my 2014 Goldwing.
You mentioned that "insurance" had replaced his bike. Do you know what kind of insurance? I'd purchase some of that. Also, at about 2:06, you say nobody intentionally slips the clutch. That's what all this "friction zone" slow riding is about. Using the brakes and slipping the clutch. The straight shifts will handle this type use for a fairly long time. Evidently not the DCT. I think Honda will deny claims relating to the DCT for bikes with a trailer hitch too. Hope I'm wrong, but that's what I see coming. It's a shame Honda decided that the Airbag model is only available with DCT.
I am surprised that slow riding maneuvers in a parking lot is any different than riding slowly in congested traffic on a highway. I have had to do this for many miles when an interstate has a lane or two closed for an accident or construction.
Something doesn't sound right.
I feel bad for the guy but I wonder if he's dragging (or holding) the rear brake EXCESSIVELY and continually applying acceleration, and practising these slow speed manoeuvres for extremely long periods and therefore building extreme clutch heat.
Any machine can be broken if abused long enough.
To do the same thing to two bikes, in such a short period, really makes me wonder.
Question for that Honda PR Rep: Are you saying that several hours each week of commuting in stop and go big-city traffic voids your warranty? 3 weeks of practicing THE most critical maneuvers to master and stay sharp on? DCT values are about to take a nose-dive.
Thats nonsense. I've been riding for 50 years and it was not "mandatory" that I practice these "critical maneuvers". I also am a former racer. I've had 3 DCT bikes and I think its the best technology since ABS. The type of artificial "maneuvers" undertaken in these programs is simply not compatible with the Goldwing and DCT. So what. I agree with the folks that point to the likely millions of trouble free miles with DCT and awesome performance it offers. I love my NT1100 DCT and admire Honda for developing this technology for motorcycles. Because DCT is unique to Honda many folks like me are now customers for life. Honda and DCT "where have you been all my life"! 🙂
@@sunrisejak2709 so are you saying a DCT is not compatible to safe riding....WOW
@@paineys3341 That's not what I inferred. Simply slipping an automatic clutch to perform maneuvers that are artificial and not indiciative of anything, means that the bike doesn't react well to going around some cones at a certain speed and a certain way. One can be a competent, safe motorcyclist while never having performed those artificial maneuvers. Plus performing those maneuvers constantly dozens and dozens of times has no real connection to reality. Someone invented those maneuvers which then made the jump that if you can't perform these exercises your not competent. Nonsense. If a DCT equipped motorcycle has difficulty performing these made up maneuvers it's mean absolutely zilch. In the "real world" the DCT applied technology works just fine. I don't need the maneuvers to be a skilled safe competent rider and a DCT equipped bike can be a safe competent machine without the artificial exercise. It's just reality versus a someone's concept of what supposedly makes for a skilled rider. If a DCT bike does not tolerate this "made up" exercise so what. Don't do the exercise 100's of times as that's just not reality.
@@paineys3341 Actually if you believe that mastering those maneuvers makes someone a safe rider Jesus that's scary. A safe rider encompasses much much more than running circles around some cones. Give me a break!
@@sunrisejak2709 you should be able to do slow speed manoeuvres with competence, Im not talking about cones but control of your bike, I have seen riders with years of experience being shown up by newbies who have took the time to master slow riding skills... see so many BAD riders not lifting there feet as soon as the bike is moving. Those skills should be MASTERED before you are granted your licence, not learned after!
The UK has the second hardest bike licence test in the world, you have to take a total of 4 tests BEFORE you are allowed on the road, one of those tests include figure 8's , slow walking pace riding and a lot more, here in the USA most times its a simple ride around the parking lot and off you go.
I still say a so called top of the range motorcycle should be able to do slow riding all day long, what happens in busy traffic, lots of clutch slip, so guess Honda should be saying only to ridden on a open road, any conditions where the clutch slip required will not be covered by warranty
That is some pure BS out of Honda. I smell a class action lawsuit coming. Best to ya Scott and thanks for the updates!
My thoughts as well
@@tjclarke4604 I can't say right now about the class action.....allergies can't smell a thing!
John,...If he ran the bike at the dragstrip everyday and kept tearing up transmissions, work you keep fixing it free?
@@lawnranger3432 Tearing up transmissions at the drag strip is not considered normal use. Driving slow is. You know, there's that.
@@tjclarke4604 The bikes were repeatedly used to do parking lot maneuvers between cones. This is also not normal use and will cause abnormal wear on even a regular clutch. For the same individual to have the same problem on two different bikes, something is going on.
If your doing slow maneuvering your are constantly in the friction zone (slipping the clutch). In DCT you’ll need to use the rear brake, which causes excessive heat in the clutch, even in a manual clutch. If your already a friction zone expert, like a law enforcement motor officer, then the DCT will be fine, as you’ll not need to go out and constantly train, just a few figure 8’s a week to keep the edge sharp will suffice. But if you’re less than that then you need a manual clutch to practice with!!!
And the fact Honda replaced the first bike?…..that’s an amazing motor Corp! I’m having to file a lemon law suit on Harley Davidson for a “friction zone” issue on a 2019 Ultra Limited, due to their “inability “ to correct an acknowledged engineering defect.
I am not familiar with GWs, but a transmission cooler with a continuously running fan at low speeds should work. And a transmission fluid temperature gauge. And a service bulletin from Honda that specifies the normal operating temperature range of a DCT transmission.
Coming from the transportation and heavy truck industry I wondered about this possibility from the get go being I’ve seen clutch failure in other electronically controlled units that seemed premature and or repetitive. Now we know 👍🏼
Being a retired truckdriver, this classified to me why I saw a message on the Volvo dash "clutch protection enabled". I was going uphill in stop and go traffic in Tracy CA when I saw it. I was new to the auto trucks having only driven manuals. I had another Volvo and the auto trans went out at 400k miles in Wenatchee WA then after the rebuild, it went out again 2 weeks later near Bakersfield.
I think I would save the money and buy the manual version GW. If I wanted auto, I'd just get a scooter.
Dct on the Goldwing is fantastic.
Wow! thanks for the heads up. We have a Rebel 1100 dct. Was going to invite my wife to do some slow practice training but not now. Thanks for posting.
I don't know... could be a size weight thing. I did a lot of slow practice drills for 30 to 90 minutes a day for a few weeks worth when I first got my 2021 Rebel 1100 DCT... only thing I wore out was my back brakes faster than my front... I haven't done that in a long time now though, I just ride normal. 20,000 miles later and still 0 issues, just normal maintenance and items I expect to wear out (like tires, chains, and sprockets, etc)
Taught myself on a ‘19 NC750X DCT, taught the wife on a ‘15 CTX700 DCT, currently ride ‘22 Rebel 1100 DCT and I’m on a ‘23GW DCT tour. Have never had DCT issues practicing slow speed maneuvers. You will be fine just don’t do 4+ hours a day with no cool down periods for the bike and you’ll be fine
Maybe if there was some indication of when the clutch is slipping, that'd pop up on the screen, that would give us more of a clue as to what's going on. It strikes me that if Honda makes it a black box system, that we can't know what's happening inside it while it's in use, then Honda needs to program & engineer that system such that even edge cases like continually practising slow speed skills doesn't damage the bike. If they're going to shift the onus onto the rider, then we need some information as to what's going on & when within the DCT box.
Wrong. We do not need a dashboard indicator for everything. That guy destroyed two bikes on purpose. Seems he is not qualified to run machinery.
Ah, and btw. Deliberate destruction is abuse by the very definition of it.
Wow, I was just texting a week or so ago wit h a couple of my buddies that have DCTs on this issue I saw somewhere else and here it detailed by the "Honda Expert" that we all respect!
I remember an video where they were doing slow speed maneuvering with a GW and they used the brake a lot to keep the transmission engaged. I could see where doing this a lot would be detrimental to the clutch. I thought it had more of a automatic transmission type torque converter set up.
I’m very skeptical when new stuff comes out.. there’s always bugs in them. Since I’m deaf, your TH-cam wasn’t captioned for deaf. Probably show up few hours later. I’ve seen DCT owners has issues with theirs, one in Texas broke down on him twice, got mad traded it off, another broke down… now stated it’s human destructive and voided his warranties. Those guys are down in Texas. I refuse buy DCT now. Still riding my 1990 1500 Goldwing. I was going buy Harley Davidson trike but they too have issues.
It takes a day or so before TH-cam gets around to adding captions, sorry about that!
No big deal… I’m aware of that 🤷🏼♂️
Slow TH-cam captions are the worst 😞... there are other ways to to speech to text though if you are in a rush, but can be even more inaccurate... like Chrome Live Captions. That said... my Rebel 1100 DCT going 20,000+ miles strong with no issues, but I wonder how much the extra weight of the Goldwing factors in.
Wonder if there’s any warning or mention of this in the Honda owners manual or warranty terms and conditions.
I think that's the key...I do see this as a lemon law candidate.
Greetings, I am currently considering acquiring a new Goldwing DCT & would appreciate advice regarding using the Manual Mode in first gear as enumerated in Jerry P’s video instead of in DCT mode when performing slow speed maneuvers. Will this avert the possibility of clutch damage?
This method evidently eliminates annoyance of the DCT changing gears during slow speed turns.
My understanding is that the clutch is fully and not partially engaged in this event & speed control is accomplished with throttle & brake which will lead to minor accelerated brake wear instead of clutch wear during limited practice.
If this is indeed correct is it enumerated in the Goldwing DCT Owners Manual?
Informed advice is appreciated. 🙏
This story gets more attention than it deserves. What is the actual data on DCT clutch failures? Personally this the only story I'm aware of and these transmissions have been out for over ten years in various iterations and usages. Before we collectively light our hair on fire I think it's important to balance the story out with some real world data, not anecdotal or just one persons experience.
Not in use on the G/Wing for 10 years. I don't think it's accurate to compare side by sides, 4 wheelers, Honda N series 700 and 1100 bikes, Africa Twin, etc. These do not represent use in a G/Wing any more than Porche and Audi autos with DCT.
If failures are this rare, then Honda should simply cover it and move on. The cost to them is trivial …. If these are truly rare failures. Now, if they aren’t so rare, then the cost would be much higher for Honda.
So constant low speed riding wears the clutch but what about the low speeds your going to incur in everyday riding? The clutch isn't getting that hot normally but as we see, it's still wearing and probably at a faster rate than you would think.
Everyone should send emails or letters to Honda about this issue and this needs to be covered as it could become a safety issue as well especially if the clutch goes out when one is on the highway. Should be covered under the warranty
An honest video. Buy a different motorcycle if you want to ride around a parking lot all day in 1rst gear. I have to side with Honda on this. They gave him a new clutch and then he does the same thing and gets the same result. It reminds me of people who put a cheater pipe on a ratchet and when the ratchet breaks they want to warranty the ratchet.
Do we know the entire story,...was the owner made aware after fixing his 2020 the constant low speed maneuvers caused the problem, he said he was not, or was he? If he actually was made aware, than Honda has a point. The DCT have been extremely reliable. For the same person to trash 2 transmissions in that short period of time, I believe sometime is amiss
Thanks Scott !,,
If all you did was slow speed maneuvers and stayed in the friction zone of a standard manual tranny, you would burn that clutch out as well, and in very short order. Don't see the design issue here.
This true and has been documented on other forums, including goldwing forums, where riders have posted about having clutch problems after doing slow speed riding. AKA, parking lot practice.
Difference is ease of repair, and durability
What will happen when in miles of Traffic jam as on an interstate that had an accident?
Are you going to destroy the DCT clutches?
Hi, under normal use of the bike, how many kilometers/miles can the DCT clutch theoretically last?
Good to know will wait to buy one now
Not only does this explain what will happen regardless of the mode used. It details just how expensive it will be to repair/replace the clutch in a DCT cycle.
Slow speed maneuvers are in every safety course out there. If DCT can't hack it, Honda needs to let owners know their bikes won't be covered under warranty. I rode a brand new DCT Wing today and found the bike to be utterly boring. It was very predictable and shifts were so smooth it's like driving a CVT car. A snore fest. My 18 Wing was far more sporty feeling and if I get another one, it will be a manual. My bet is the BMW Gt 1600 will be a different story if I can ever make it in to test one out.
I own a DCT Tour. I also own a R1250GS and getting ready to pull the trigger on a K1600GTL. I rode one and it's amazing. It's fast, mostly comfortable (a bit cramped for my 6"1' frame) and shifts like a dream. I swear it makes a "schnick" sound when you shift it. Do be aware, they have their issues too, but their customer service is far superior to modern Honda CS.
@@Myrune1 I rode a BMW and it wheelies no problem. Very fast bike but not comfortable to my old joints and it was jittery like a race horse. Handling was excellent but you had to constantly adjust so I found another manual 2018 GW and bought it. They are both exceptional machines, it just depends on your preferences. I would actually like to have both.
Does this apply to the manual transmission as well? Mine only has 1200 miles on it and I'm getting a whining noise between 1500 and 2000 RPM under loaded conditions only.
Am I wrong? I thought on the DCT you could manually shift with a thumb lever? Would that make a difference on slow speed riding?
I would guess that is to select which gear you want to be in - the clutch itself is still automatic and you cant control that.
No.
Be alright if you could start in 2nd gear, but you cannot. It still shifts, even in manual mode. BS
it will in some ways, yes... depending how much you speed up and slow down, how fast you go, and what riding mode you are in, it will sometimes try to go to second and back to first a lot too. If doing slow skills, I found it best to make sure to use manual mode and leave it in first only.
Thanks for the heads up, Scott! Myself, I'd not buy a new Wing with a DCT trans. I'll take a standard trans model, thank you.
I saw the post in the website, so am aware of what has happened. I'd be calling a lawyer if I were dclinton.
I rode with a guy who would blow the engine in every single sled he ever owned. The rest of us rode the same sled with no issues. Can that please be explained.
This is a big concern and I know will turn off many riders from getting a Honda in the future.
Definitely not taking any low speed classes now on my new Wing. Thanks again for posting this and making me aware before I destroyed my clutch. Abuse. This is a really bad look for Honda.
For anyone to take anything from this one incident is pure insanity. There are far too many variables that haven't been addressed to draw any conclusions from. I have seen firsthand DCT Goldwings go thru an entire 3 week police motorcycle course with no ill effects. The key to that accomplishment was the skill levels of the riders. They all set the engine mode at what they felt most comfortable and "lightly" applied rear brake when they needed it. They didn't run constant rear brake nor did they ever get heavy on the rear brake. We don't know how skilled the person is that blew out his DCT, but apparently he didn't learn a thing from his first bike to his second bike. And just because someone claims to be a motorcycle instructor doesn't mean they are a good motorcycle instructor.
No manufacturer warrantees clutches on their motorcycles regardless of time in use. I have seen clutches on manual shift bikes go south in 20 minutes with an unskilled operator who used the rear brake as a crutch for his poor riding skills. There have been times when a manufacturer MAY elect to replace a worn clutch, but that is far and few in between. Clutches are a wear item that the factory has no control over how they are used. So with this in mind the owner of this problem should have been well aware of what was going on and adjusted or improved his riding skills BEFORE he hit the track once again. How many DCT's is Honda supposed to give this guy before he learns?
The owner of the two Goldwing's must have little in the way of common sense going for him, or he would have, or should have known that he needs to let the bike cool down after a few minutes in the cones, but this was another area not stipulated to. If he stayed in slow cone patterns for lengthy time periods then shame on him. Stupid is as stupid does. Worse yet is that people that should know better pick up the torch and flame Honda when they don't have all the facts, or know anything about the rider/owner other than he is allegedly an instructor and apparently not a very good one. You can't keep committing the same mistakes over and over again without making changes and expect different results. It doesn't work that way. I for one would have loved to see what condition the rear brake pads were on these two Goldwings as that would tell the whole story about how the bike was ridden. Unfortunately that aspect wasn't discussed by the person posting this garbage.
Remember too that a Goldwing is NOT designed for this type of riding. It is designed for something entirely different and using one in extended cone pattern sessions is not advisable. This one falls on the owner of the bike who clearly abused it to the point of damaging not one, but two DCT's.
Rick H.
If it's not in the owners manual not to do that it should be covered. Sounds like Honda needs to be going back to the drawing board and refunding all money spent on Goldwing Clutches and maybe even a recall may be in order. So in bumper to bumper traffic it sounds like that will also destroy the Goldwing clutch as it stands today. Not good at all. And the manual trans bike will do this all with no problem. What about trailer towing?? Sounds bleek for Honda!!
Engineering seems to be getting a do over at customer expense......... 🤔 it all boils down to a Lawsuit!!
Stop and go traffic isn't as hard on the clutch as what they put them through in intensive practice/training...
What keyboards do you have hidden under there?
Well I think I'll stick to my GL1100 for a little while longer😉 But I really hope there soon will be a solution for you riders with this DCT problem👊
Yea, I like my GL1100 a whole lot too.
They advised the same on their DCT vehicles.
My question is, what if you dont do slow speed riding and you just ride it. Will it still fail? Yeah, probably after the warranty expires. And dealers don't want to work on bikes older than 10 yrs old. So basically, the bike will be junk. It's best to get a manual. Hopefully, this is not an ongoing problem for honda with the DCT.
This isn’t new technology. Hondas had DCT in various bikes since 2010. This is a SINGULAR incident, with a SINGULAR bike, being used by an instructor in a training course. I’ve had 4 DCT bikes in the ram the last 5 years and not single one failed ANYTHING while I learned slow speed maneuvers. I don’t even need to drag brake at 1-4MPH for my slow speed stuff. I just use pure throttle for all my maneuvers at slow speed.
Meh. No mention of how many hours training, miles put on during training, or speed used during slow speed training. With almost 60,000 miles on my Tour DCT, I've had no problems and no complaints.
Honda needs to issue some guidance on how to do slow speed maneuvers on their DCT bikes or people are just going to stop buying them. That's half their sales on those models, give or take. C'mon Honda - tell us how to do slow speed maneuvers without damaging the clutch.
Your wrong. People will keep buying them because they can't verify your experience. Nobody will listen or even care about most peoples opinion
@@claudelarocque3655 ok random internet person. You win.
Thats why i didn't buy the DCT model. i have a manual clutch and do alot of slow speed parking lot practice with zero problems. DCT would be fun for travelling and the open road. Bill.
I got 'em both! 😁
Being that this is the only instance of this issue I have heard or read about, I gotta think it's something he's doing for it to happen to 2 different bikes. 4 years on mine and still shifts and rides great.
I'm a Honda fan boi and Rider Coach. I teach Moto Skills and used my DCT Goldwing, but now use my BMW R1250GS. All of that being said. I fully believe this is a Honda issue and should be covered. Know this; Honda will never, never, never speak a word of this publicly. Further, they will not help that guy no matter what. Ask me how I know.
They truly suck for customer service and there's at least one rep I actively hate. I don't even hate my ex, but this clown earned all of my ire. Not only that, they were smart mouthed about it too.
Soichiro Honda, would be rolling over in his grave seeing how Honda America CS acts and treats his customers. Why? Because they can.
Hello Scott, talk about opening a can of worms. Someone's going to open a can of W.A. Thanks for the video. Have a great day!
What if your in stop and go traffic
Another reason why I LOVE the Honda goldwing 1800….. pre 2018…
From everything I’ve read and seen about this issue, it seems clear that this is a design flaw in the DCT.
Wow. I remember the Trail 70 or 90 or something that had no manual clutch but still shifted manually back in the 70's. When Honda put this out and there was no shift lever or clutch I was very skeptical. when CPU's control stuff its just a nightmare especially in the first few years of iteration. I've learned from MANY a "New Car of the Year" examples that ya just DO NOT BUY a first or second year BRAND NEW design. I chose to not be Honda's Beta Tester and thankful I made that choice. Sure is funny how they all of a sudden are throwing away their business model and touring customers. Bye Bye Honda for me.
Nothing wrong with computer control, just as long as they're programmed properly, and the control systems engineered to not fail catastrophically with normal use. Honda needs to get it into their heads that gymkhana riding is a normal use they should be factoring into their design. If their bike can't do what a manual bike can do then they need to be honest about it. Is this something a software update could fix or is it so inherent to the DCT engineering that there's no easy patch or workaround?
I am curious was he in automatic mode while do slow speed manuevers and would being in manual mode have made a difference
Still shifts even in manual mode. At least from 1st to 2nd. in my experience with my DCT. I usually practice at 10mph min when possible. but only for 5 to 10 min at a time. This is a crock
Honda: get your crap together, LOL.
@@moose3971 I have had 2 dct now and never has the bike ever shifted on its own from 1st to 2nd ever so I am still not understanding how this guy is screwing up his transmission on his goldwing I uave done low speed manuevers in manual in first gear for hrs no problem I always kept the bike at 10mph or less never had a problem with transmission anyway my 2 DCT bikes do not shift by themselves in manual from 1st to 2nd gear this is the first I ever heard of that one
@@michaelsloane1034 I think u are correct, I bet I’m thinking backwards. Seems like it shifted. must be from 2 to 1st if speed is not high enough . Maybe it’s my lack of riding on account of winter lol.
If I am in manual mode my 2 DCT bikes never shift up unless I shift it now they will down shift on its own in manual mode if RPM is low enough but they never shift up from 1st 2nd in manual mode
@@michaelsloane1034 yea that is correct. I verified a couple days ago while on a ride.
So the warranty of the Honda 'DCT Goldwing' doesn't cover the clutch? The clutch is what the 'DCT' is all about. Perhaps this denial came from a lower level of corporate? I sure hope so.
This just doesn't stack up against the multitudes of DCT owners that have had zero issues. If you are riding with a "Drill team" you will find issues with many components of the bike. I know riders who ride precision for fun , most have Harley Police models , with heavy duty clutches and even special brake fluid as the stock stuff will boil during excessive rear brake dragging. All in all practice occasionally but if you want to do police type competition the DCT isn't the right bike . I'd buy another in a minute !
If it's not able to handle any kind of use then it's a flawed design and needs more development. It's as simple as that.
Oh and any country doesn't have consumer protection laws and allows Honda to turn around and say they're not going to honour a warranty, is ridiculous. They wouldn't have the balls to even suggest that in the EU.
Scott, in trying to find information on where the gl1500 rear shock air pressure sensor is located... All I'm finding online is "replace the shocks" and tpms problems... Any help would be lovely
Thank you for those 2 videos it helped me decide on buying manual over DCT 💯👏
Slow speed practice is A NORMAL period.
Never thought I would hear those news from the company that used to make the best cruiser in the world. Guess this will affect people wir a DCT Africa Twin too and they certainly do slow speeding doing off road riding.
Not good Honda…
100 great hotel reviews and 1 bad one. What will people pick up on?
he's back
Just ride a GL 1500, problems solved
It’s happening when we wash it with high pressure .. I just got it
No way. Honda is usually good with their warranty. Now if the rider is doing something that bad, then I think Honda should not cover it. My friend bought a Harley and he was riding his bike hard. I think warranty covered him twice and the 3rd time Harley say that was enough. If Honda already helped replace his bike then it would be questionable for the 2nd bike.
This is crappy. I knew this about dcts because vw’s Dct is the same thing, no creeping in traffic like you would a torque converter transmission. How is the average Joe supposed to know this ?
I had the same issue but I don’t drive slow
I have been riding since 1968. Dirt bikes, street bikes, motocross bikes, trials bikes which are very hard on clutches, road racing machines. I’ve had three Yamaha ventures, I’ll BMW K 1200 LT, a gl1800 Goldwing..
One of my production road racing machines has more than 120 launches on it it starts of heat races and final road races. I have never had a clutch fail in any of my machines ever. My first venture was a 1986 with 138,000 miles on it. Original clutch..
I was very interested in buying the new V twin Yamaha venture. But no dealer around me ever had one in stock for me to even see one. They wanted a deposit before they would order one. I was there the first month they were announced in 2018, and here it is March 2023 and I still have never seen a new V twin Yamaha venture ..
when I was shopping, I was considering the new goldwing also.. I had just sold my GL 1800 Goldwing which was, as all gold wings are, perfect, except of course, the four-way flasher module. I made the mistake of turning the four-way flashers on one evening, and I could not get them to turn off, I rode over 70 miles home with the four ways on in the dark..I went on youtube to see how to fix it, and it turns out that is a very common problem with that motorcycle which is very surprising to me that Honda would have a widespread problem like that. I even went on eBay in hopes of finding a used one, there were a few used ones on there, and they all had many bids on them, and the auctions were not over yet. They were hundreds of dollars for used ones….
I ended up getting mine to free up by drilling a small hole in it and squirting electrical contact cleaner in the unit, and never touching that four-way flasher button again.. when I sold the bike I told the new owner of the problem and to never use the four ways..
so when I was shopping for a replacement possibly a new Goldwing, I started hearing about the transmission problems,A riding acquaintance of mine is a hopelessly loyal Goldwing rider. He and his riding buddy had just bought leftover 2017 gold wings. The reason they bought leftovers is because, they traded in their 2018 goldwings in on the leftover 17s. They did not like the 18s as much as they liked the 2012 and 2015 models they traded in on the 18s… their wives also did not like the 18s because they said they didn’t have the luggage capacity or the comfort of the older versions..
well from my point of view at that time, I had just sold my GL 1800, and my buddy convinced me not to get one of the 18s..
so I knew I did not want to buy another BMW, or a newer Goldwing, and I have never got a chance to see the Yamaha venture V-twin. So I bought an older Yamaha royal star venture with very low miles from the original owner.
like I said earlier it’s my third venture. I had an 86, a 2002, and now I have a 2008 here in 2023. I have videos on TH-cam of the maintenance chores I performed on it. I also have a video on youtube stating what my impressions of each machine is between the GL 1800 and my current Yamaha royal star venture.. A shock to me is, my video has over 51,000 views in less than a year, and over 600 thumbs up..
I say in my video that goldwing buyer?? perfect, but their Achilles’ heel is, they are so hard to work on. I used to be a motorcycle mechanic at several different shops. So I have always always done my own maintenance. I can do just about everything except cylinder boring, and two-stroke triple crankshaft rebuilding.. I don’t have the jigs for that but I can do single and twin crankshaft rebuilds/truing..
I look at a Goldwing this way. They can go easily 200,000 miles with basic maintenance. OK
The air cleaners take approximately six hours to change. I thought that was ridiculous that it would cost over $600 to have an air cleaner changed so I did the job myself. And it is not ridiculous to charge six hours labor because that’s how long it takes.. I went step-by-step using the Honda official service manual, being careful, making a holder to take all of the screws that I had to remove out in sequence because many of them are all different sizes and have to go back where they came from when it comes to removing the side panels and the main cover over the engine..
OK so let’s say you have the dealer do your air cleaner change every 20,000 miles. In 200,000 miles, that’s 10 air filter changes..
The dealer labor rate is $125 an hour pretty much everywhere. Six hours to change the air filter, just the labor not counting the air filter. That’s $750 just labor to change the air filter one time
over 200,000 miles, that’s $7500 to make 10 air filter changes. Just the labor..
if you’re loaded with dough, that’s no big deal.
but I could take my wife out to dinner over 150 times including drinks for $7500.. that’s dinner at Applebee’s once a week for almost 3 years just to change 10 air filters..
on my venture, I can get at the starter, the stator, the slave cylinder, the clutch, and the water pump without removing a single piece of plastic, they are right on the opened. I can change the air cleaners, both of them on the venture, in about 10 minutes each, using a number to fill up screwdriver, and a 10 mm wrench..
so the subject of this video is about clutch failure on the Goldwing.
The thought of having to change the clutch on my Goldwing is one of the reasons I decided that I did not want to risk having a serious issue with that motorcycle. So I sold it and went back to some thing I know is very serviceable. My royal star venture
Gold wings are perfect.. but they are so hard to work on. And if you don’t do your own work, you have to marry the dealer..
stories like this video, telling us that Honda refused to service the clutch on this guy is Goldwing convinces me that I made the right choice..
i’m gonna wait till Honda comes out with a new revised Goldwing in a few years that is compliant with the European air pollution requirements which are tougher than California’s.
I read that Honda is discontinuing the Goldwing six-cylinder and nine other models because they cannot possibly pass the European union air pollution standards in the near future..
I hope they come out with something like that on the Pacific coast size Goldwing. I have had two on the Pacific coasts.. my first one got totaled while I was sitting on it at a stop sign from behind. I immediately replaced it with another one which I commuted on for the next 24 years, trouble free..
48 hp Pacific Coast V twin engine made all the power I ever needed. A replacement Goldwing with an 800 cc engine would be perfect
So a bike bought mostly by old men can't go slow?? Then why not call it an "viagran"
DCT failure. I see 2 remedy's right off the bat. Extensive slow speed for any manual vehicle is hard on any clutch.
1 - (IF it's possible) Add a trans lockup button. This keep the trans in one gear (whatever is suited for slow speed riding) and will not shift.
2 - In 'Stop-n-Go traffic Harley's are 'respectfully' allowed to ride the shoulder since they are air cooled. DCT Honda's should have the same 'respect' from the cops.
I don't own one and nor am I interested. Owner repairs are becoming extremely technical & most owners are not at that level of mechanically inclined. Personally I think motorcycles needs several 'Steps back' to lower their complexity.
I have spent countless hours on my 2018 DCT Tourer in the parking lots since new. Practicing slow speed maneuvers, even though I’ve been riding motorcycles for over 50 years. I have never seen a warning indicator or experienced any issues with the DCT clutch. I’ve heard this rumor and I question it’s authenticity. There are folks that seem to like to keep the rumor alive and well. When I hear it on a platform such as this one, it also brings into question the integrity of this channel of which I have unsubscribed. No loss as those that inflate and promote rumors and act as it is urgent and trustworthy news to promote their channel… well, let’s just say I’ve had enough. Ride on DCT riders, it is the most dependable Goldwing on the market.
Very nice, except it's not just "rumor" - we have multiple DCT owners on the GoldwingDocs site all of whom are experiencing this issue. Just because you haven't experienced it yourself does not invalidate the experiences of others.
This is insane, I have been wondering what the follow up would be. Now I know. Honda shoved their finger in the customer's butt. This BS. I have worked in dealerships since 1994, and warranty SHOULD include "all manufacturing defects while being used under normal operating conditions". So Honda is saying that riding slowly is NOT normal operation of the machine? What if you ride to work a lot and are stuck in traffic on the daily? OK, I know, an automatic bike is not my thing either, and a lot of people will be saying "NeVer Get A DCT!". Right or wrong, that isn't the point. This is a manufacturer who won't stand behind their product. Very disappointing, and I am mad as hell. Automatic transmission have been around for 80 years, and Honda is telling us that they can't get it right, and that it is the buyer's fault? "I don't think so Tim" to quote Al Borland. I'd love to see a class action suit against Honda for this, maybe even have Steve Lehto cover it all on his channel, because this just ain't right.
I just stuck my tongue in hot chocolate. 🤪 But I'll stick with my trusty steed GL1200A 🎉
A clutch controlled by computer should have the intelligence in the software to not overheat and wear out the clutch. Their should either be a sensor that monitors clutch temperature, or a timer that monitors how long the clutch has been only partially engaged. This is simply good engineering, not rocket science. Honda dropped the ball on this and doesn’t want to admit it.
Blaming an engineering deficiency on the consumer is very poor practice by a company. Now, if the rider has a clutch lever such that the rider is the one who slipped the clutch too much, then that is on the rider. However, if the Honda computer slips the Honda clutch into oblivion, that is on Honda.
Honda Motorcycle Powersport and their Engineers are in big trouble. They know dam well that motorcyclist take Motorcycle Safety Courses which require slow speed riding. They have a lot of explaining to do. I know that Honda has two different vehicles, cars/trucks and motorcycles. All Honda vehicles with automatic transmissions basically function under the same principles. Drivers drive their vehicle at time at slow speeds and never burn out their clutches. So, Honda Motorcycle Powersport needs to explain why the transmission in a car/truck driving at slow speeds and never have a problem, but the Honda Motorcycle DCT (Dual Clutch Transmission) has had two of their DCT model burn out from slow speed riding from the same person. They should go back to the drawing board (CAD) to find out how to fix this problem. In my opinion I think it's ac software problem because the software tells the computer what to do and when to do it. About the warranty shouldn't be an issue on the DCT because the rider has no control of the clutch, whereas in a manual clutch, the rider has control of the clutch and on the manual transmission there is no warranty because the rider could abuse it. Just like clutches, brakes also are not covered by a warranty, but any vehicle with automatic transmission and the clutches burn out are and should be covered under a warranty because the clutch system was removed from the rider's control. This gentleman should take Honda Motorsports to court for this issue and be reimburse finacially. How he can find a very good lawyer to represent him.
What is the difference between lots of slow speed manoeuvres on a DCT motorcycle and driving an automatic car every day in heavy city traffic... NONE, they both require the vehicles computer to determine the amount of clutch use... HONDA this is a MAJOR design flaw!
Well for one, an automatic car doesn't use slipping clutches for slow-speed driving, it uses a torque converter.
@@GoldwingDocs I agree but but Honda MUST have know this bike will be used in heavy city traffic as for the rider it sure helps on the clutch hand
Get a clutch model. I wouldn’t want to do slow skill maneuvers with a DCT. Part of the skill is clutching. Challenge yourself. Maybe a Goldwing isn’t for you.
Am I the only one that wonders, if this guy had a problem on one bike and now the exact same problem on the new one, what’s going on….
Total BS Honda needs to fix the DCT clutch. I'm on edge of buying a new one surely don't want a Can Am. Clearly the fix doesn't cost that much to fix over charge by dealers so Honda doesn't take the hit which to them is a drop in the bucket
les,...Honda's DCT and Can Am are two entirely different transmissions
But, but Hondas are so reliable and Hondas never breakdown and Hondas are the best bikes ever
For all the wannabe experts out there: Unlike a manual transmission which is usually designed to be servicable, any sort of automatic transmission - given the considerable price markup - is supposed to last a major part of a motorcycles total lifetime expectancy and is only servicable with huge effort and cost.
Thus, a Honda DCT dying TWICE within a few weeks each is nothing short of an embarassment to a corporation like Honda.
I’ll stick with manual transmission for me.
I will keep my 2007 harley davidson and if I decide to upgrade I will stick with harley davidson.
FFS If you need to ride around car parks doing that shit maybe it's time to give up riding ! Put it in RAIN mode and Manual shift mode SO CALLED problem SOLVED !
No it doesn't solve the problem. Anytime you're riding slowly, even in full manual mode, it slips the clutch. Otherwise it would bog and stall the engine.
Hey Chris, First time? Get gud bud. See you in the ditch.
Chris, you’re not a real rider are you? New guy? Never watched a training video or went to a class? Or maybe you have thousands of highway miles so you think you’re an “expert.” That was my problem for many thousands of miles also; until i woke up. An “expert” is just a drip under pressure.
Manual mode won't do a thing to help with the slow speed partial engagement of the clutches.
Is this guy the only person with DCT doing slow speed manuevers he cant be
Bunch of BS. If you go off-road with it, you would not be covered. Why is this news? The guy is not using it as it was designed to be ridden.
Why hasn’t that owner come forward. What are you, his lawyer. There are always three sides to every story. You are not telling the full truth.
He did. This whole thing originated BECAUSE he came forward. The link to his original post is in the description of the video, as I said multiple times IN the video.
Shocking and disturbing answer from Honda. Time to rethink the DCT transmission, guess it's just not ready for prime time.
He’s 1 one of thousands…
Another reason NOT to buy a DCT!!
Makes me wanna dump my Honda and jump to BMW just beyond Hondas business practices.
Uh……you might want to rethink that. You obviously have not done research on BMW, when it comes to warranty.
Sue