First, trail braking has nothing to do with applying rear brake during low speed turns. Trail braking is using the front brake (or rear brake) in high speed turns. You trail on the brake entering a turn then trail off the brake when you're happy with your lean angle and speed. As for the clutch problems on DCT bikes, the only way to avoid this problem is to not use any brake for low speed turns. Because the throttle is very sensitive, this will take lots and lots of practice. Honda could easily fix this problem by either having an idle control that would allow you to raise the idle so that you don't need to use the throttle while practicing low speed maneuvers, or setting the transmission so you can start off in 2nd or 3rd gear. Yamaha did this with their 1300 sport tourer. I rode one at my class and found that putting the bike in 3rd gear and not using any rear brake, made the bike extremely maneuverable. With the WING dct, you can put it in manual 3 rd gear, but it will still start off in first. Honda should know that many Wing riders participate in top gun competitions and that will wear out the clutch as you know. Now that they no longer make manual transmissions, you're just stuck with the problem.
Nope, Just do not buy a DCT Gold Wing. Money talks if they do not sell then the marketplace has spoken. Honda ain't that stupid, they just got stuck on it for a minute. The marketplace can fix the issue by NOT BUYING Gold Wing DCT bikes. Simple really.
@Adam G yea it's like 57% of the Gold Wings sold are DCT...not everybody wants a automatic motorcycle...lots of people still prefer to shift their own gears with a motorcycle
Jerry Pallladino took a DCT through his low speed course and while he could do it he said it wasn't as easy as a manual trans bike and wondered if the clutch would hold up. Think I'll stick to the GL bikes.
Every safety course has a low speed portion you slip the clutch to maintain control. Honda needs to fix the problem or make it known these bikes aren't warranted against clutch failure.
I used to own a DCT Goldwing and do a fair amount of slow-speed riding...but not much on the Goldwing. I was concerned about a situation similar to this as I did not fully understand how the DCT slipped the clutch in slow-speed maneuvers like this. It was always a concern so I did just enough slow speed to develop the skill on the GW, but in general, if I wanted to practice slow speed I chose one of my other motorcycles with a traditional clutch. Since I run MCrider and it is focussed on motorcycle training I sold the Goldwing, in part due to the limitations of the DCT for slow-speed riding but also because of concern over what it would do to the motorcycle. Interesting video!
Hey Scott - the DCT has a manual mode as well. He should put the DCT in manual mode instead of automatic. That way he can control the shifting. Shift to first gear and practice all he wants. The transmission will not shift. No need for clutch.
Several people have suggested this, but it is incorrect. If the bike is moving slower than it would be moving at idle RPM in first year, then the DCT computer will slip the clutch automatically. Otherwise the engine would stall. The computer automatically slips the clutch at slow speeds. So if you are riding at slow speeds for extended amounts of time, even in first gear, particularly if you're dragging your brake to ride slowly, then you are slipping your clutch - a LOT. You just don't know that you are, because the computer is doing it without your knowledge.
@@GoldwingDocs Isn't the same true for a manual clutch? I slip mine a lot, at low speed to do exactly what the computer is doing. Possibly a bit slower and potentially not as well🙂
I don't know about anyone else, or their bike, but my 2018 DCT, with 25k miles handles slow speed maneuvers just fine. I had to practice a little after I bought the bike, but I can do parking lot maneuvers, and u-turns in both directions. The transmission has held up fine, and I don't smell anything like a clutch burning smell. As for the guy with the original issue, for Honda to declare it abuse is really crappy, and I would think they would have to list this use of the bike as abuse in the warranty documentation.
I have almost 175,000 miles on 5 different DCT motorcycle and all generations. Never had this problem. That stated, I haven’t spent too much time practicing slow speed maneuvers. All my DCT bikes handle really well going slow, especially my 2028 GoldenWing, non tour. Thanks for posting. Very interesting.
Here is the link to the original forum posting - if you want to comment directly back to the member who is having the issue, this is where to do it: goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66882 and here is a link to the updated video: th-cam.com/video/zZcw_ft1sFE/w-d-xo.html
My thought on trail braking is using the front brake gently in a curve to load the front suspension for better control. Not for dragging the rear brake in slow speed maneuvers.
If a car driver or a motorcyclist rides the clutch for 95% of the time the vehicle is in use, the clutch will not survive. They are not designed for that. It follows therefore, that to do that is abusing the clutch. In my view, Honda are within their rights to decline a warranty claim. The damaged clutch seems to have triggered sensors in this case hence the 'snowflakes'. Saying the dct or the bike is cr*p is ridiculous.
In the handbooks of my DCT NC700 and CMX1100 it says to use the rear brake to control the speed during low speed manoeuvres another tip is to put it in MA and stay in 1st gear then use the rear brake to control the speed this will avoid the bike trying to shift gear when doing slow speed manoeuvres and the clutch slipping as it changes up and down trying to anticipate what the rider is doing.
"Trail braking" is putting light pressure on the front brake in a curve to lightly push down on the front wheel to give you more traction. It is called "trail braking" because it reduces the "trail" of the fork.
Great video. I'm thinking about the purchase of a DCT Honda Trike maybe a 19 or 20 in the future. Every little bit of information helps. I can't ride a two wheeler any more as I have a bad knee and I like trikes. Have one now a Suzuki Burgman 650 with a old Trinity trike set on the back so a three wheel true trike that can rival with any Honda or Harley as far as keeping up. A great bike. My buddy told me to get a Sea to Sky Can Am but reading the info on that bike there is plenty of issues with electronics and junk parts all plastic and the bike is expensive to maintain far more expensive than a Honda DCT. Look forward to see more of your videos. Thanks
I'm not a bike owner, but I sure am a Goldwing lover. Thanks so much for helping to inform us about this non-normal phenomenon. Its obviously a design flaw or shortcoming that Honda or their customers could not see coming. Can Honda modify the design of the Goldwing or it's clutch system to not be vulnerable to extended slow-speed riding? This is the second problem I'm learning about in the Goldwing. The first problem has to with no soare travel in the front wheel strut...its shock absorber is too close to its bumper when the rider sits on the bike.
I have a 2018 DCT. I get the same snowflakes. I do not slow rides, in fact, the only way I can guarantee the problem comes up is if I exceed 4 grand. Everything works the same - shifting is OK but it stays that way until turn off and re-start. I even trikes mine and it still continues.
Well, I just bought a brand new 2023 GW DCT bike 3 weeks ago, drove home 7 miles and today for the first time took it out for a ride less than 30 miles the exact thing you described happened to me. I did not ride any slow riding except in the normal course of driving as in coming to a stop or coming out of my house in the street. Besides this is the fist times I drove it since bringing it home. Will see Monday when I tow it to the dealer.
Thanks for showing DCT faults. This is such old news and so common with honda DCTs. Thanks again for video ..I had a 15 ctx700 dct & 17 crf1000 dct. Both failed horribly between 20k & 30k+ miles. Sat at dealer for 5 months, with several other DCT bikes with DCT issues. Dealer was fine. Honda America was the issue. NO DEALER SUPPORT !! 50 yr daily rider, ill never touch anything from honda again.. buy the shop service manuel. Its so massive in size just for the DCT part. No wonder techs are lost ! There’s a reason no other manufactures will put a DCT on a motorcycle.. I basically gave my DCT bikes away.. a smart Japanese software engineer rider.. was buying bad honda DCTs. He fixed many, says many different faults, but its all software, ecm, computer related. Theres the facts
Computer controlled transmissions are constantly learning based on how you ride. If you do lots of slow speed riding, like slow maneuvers, the computer learns that it needs to be in first gear or it gets confused by what it is trying to learn. If it happens again, park it, disconnect the battery for a while to clear what has been learned then reconnect the battery. If that works, switch to Manual when doing these training maneuvers. Even on cars a CVT transmission learns. When I disconnect the battery I have to re-teach the transmission. The quickest way is to use the manual mode and the paddle shifters on the steering wheel. Once it has my shift pattern back I go to Automatic mode and it is fine.
I watch the Preload channel as well as the Paladino channel. I have a 2002 Gl1800 and the first thing I thought of was how those DCT's handled the slow speed maneuvers with clutch slippage... I guess , now I know. I don't do a ton of slow speed skills drills just due to the fact that doing a clutch on a GL1800 is no easy task...
i have a 2020 DCT Tour. I have tried the parking lot practice with it on several occasions. It is indeed a different skill set than with a manual clutch bike. I was more proficient on my GL1500SE than on this bike, but after reading this (and dropping and scuffing the saddlebag), I am not going to prioritize slow speed maneuvers. I like the DCT and will enjoy it for what it is. I can do reasonable turns and feel confindent in traffic so I am comfortable. I will still practice some slow speed parking lot maneuvers, but it is not going to be a priority to emulate Jerry Palladino. I ascribe to the comments of MCRIDER in this thread.
For a bike that should be ablevto get 200,000+ miles on it with moral riding. You would think the clutch could handle more than 1000 mile even riding a lot of low speeds.
I had the some problem with honda Fireblade 2021 they said if I use launch control more than 3 times they do not cover it under warranty and if I change the setting with it not running it kills the battery
So just finished up a supposedly 5,000 mile trip on my 2018 DCT. I say supposedly as my bike had its second shift motor failure, 1400 miles from home, loaded it up into a cargo van and transported it home. There were no slow course handling drills going on, but two events of heavy stop and go traffic, both events ended up with the bike failing on a bridge and in one of them the bike failed completely on the top of the bridge. The first failure was at about 35,000 miles, the second one at 72,000 miles, I tend to ride a bit. Honda is fixing it again as I have an extended warranty. I love my DCT but when on long trips can you avoid stop and go traffic caused by road work or from crossing back into the USA stuck for two hours to go 1.5 miles..
Thank you so much, you probably saved me a clutch as I was planning on doing my yearly low speed classes on my new Wing. Appreciate the heads up and this really sucks on Honda's part to call taking a class to become a better rider, abuse. SMH. Sounds like a software update would perhaps alleviate this problem.
Hello all, I currently ride a 2006 Suzuki Boulevard and plan to buy a 2023 DCT GW this spring. The local Harley Davidson dealer offers advanced riding skills classes (they provide the bikes). My only thought regarding the GW vs HD riding skills class is "Will the skills I learn on a bike with a clutch transfer over when I ride the Goldwing?" I think i have decent skills working a clutch + a throttle (of course, there is always room for improvement) and I saw one of Jerry Palladino's videos with a GW DCT and he did say low speed manuevers are tougher with the automatic clutch. Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on my dilemma? Despite this issue, I still want a GW DCT, but I also want to take more riding classes.
The first thing I would have tried is a Reset Initialization of the DCT Transmission. This should be done after every service, and whenever the shifts feel less than perfect (1-minute process)… - [ ] Sit on the bike with the parking brake on (the rear wheel must not move) - [ ] Run the engine until 3 bars are indicated (normal running temperature) - [ ] Turn off the motorcycle - [ ] Hold the D-switch in, turn the ignition on, and keep the D-switch held in - [ ] When the engine graphic (‘mill lamp’) idiot light goes off, then release the D-switch - [ ] Press the switches in the following sequence order (D-D-N-D-N) - [ ] (do ‘not’ open the throttle, but…) start the engine and let it idle - [ ] A cigar-shaped emblem appears on the dash and flashes every two seconds - [ ] If it flashes faster, the rear wheel must be turning (sit on the bike, rather than center-stand) - [ ] Any transmission noises are perfectly normal, as the computer initializes and resets gears - [ ] When the cigar emblem becomes a Neutral indicator and Tour Mode shows, the process is complete - [ ] Turn the bike off, and on again. check the bike is still showing neutral and tour mode in the dash
Yes, one can burn a clutch riding as you described (higher RPM, in the friction zone, and rear braking). The energy of the motor has to go somewhere; and that somewhere is heat in the rear brake and clutch plates. HOWEVER, one can practice slow speed riding without burning up stuff. Skillful riders do it all the time.
Scott, great Video. One observation you typically look good in your vids and when I clicked on the play and saw your hair, I was like, Geez did he wake up from a nap and decide to not look in the mirror before doing the vid. Or maybe your brain got an idea and your hair exploded ? Anyway, good info.
I suggest that replacing the battery in this case just reset the computer which he could have done without replacing the battery, just disconnect the existing battery for an hour or so and reconnect it. Even if a battery only has 70% life left, it should not cause any computer issues. The biggest draw on a battery is the starter, so if the bike starts, everything else should work fine.
NOT just one rider’s problem. My experience with this is that it’s always associated with low voltage electrical system. I ride at least 700 miles a month average so i felt no need to use a battery tender, especially during warm months. The bike was having “hard” starts. Sometimes there were “klacking” sounds intermittently when moving from a stop and especially in the walking gear. Occasionally the snow flakes would display on start up. Running the bike for a few minutes,shutting it off, and repeating 4 or 5 times would clear the issue. I’ve begun putting my ‘21 DCT on a battery tender every time i park it at home and even while on trips when the bike road parked over night. Since using the tender religiously, none of those issues have recurred. Fortunately the ECM has not destroyed any clutches because I caught the problem early. My opinion: the low power to the ECM while parked is the issue. The Goldwing either has an inherent power drain or the battery is simply not enough to keep the ECM happy when the bike is shutdown. Same thing happens to some laptops. The battery drains over time even though the device has been off. It’s just my theory. As for low speed maneuvering, i use the RAIN setting and rear brake. Comments?
I had this situation in my GL Bagger 2021 DCT, I currently have 2000 km driven, and I have concerns for the next season that the situation may happen again. For now, my GL is under warranty, but what will happen when the warranty ends? At the last review at the dealer I asked what was going on, unfortunately they ignored my question. This is my 3th GoldWing and probably the last one.
Well, When I read about this type thing, I have to be cautious in trying to determine what or who is at fault. Honda, as far as I know, has had the DCT clutch system in place now for over 10 years. They have provided it on multiple bikes, including the Honda Talon. I can think of many, many places and situations where slow speed driving/riding takes place. The slow speed maneuvering like in parking lots, to me, is very similar to stop and go driving where traffic is backed up and you get to move only every so often. I mean, what's the difference in slow speed parking lot practicing and stop and go driving where you never get out of first gear and barely get going at that before you slow down again? I have no idea what, if any number of issues the DCT has had over its production lifetime, up to this point. But it sure seems that Honda would take into account, any and all potential slow speed operations, like condensed traffic and not provide safeguards against premature breakdowns or wear. Now, I don't do a whole lot of parking lot practice. I have done some but, it's normally about 30 seconds worth if and when I do it. So, if there's any "burning or heating" of the clutch(s) I sure as heck don't approach that time frame. Now, has the person in question done this on his TWO DCT Honda Goldwings, did the slow speed maneuvering to the point where the clutches are heating up? I wonder, what kind of time is needed for that kind of situation to appear? Hmmmm. I myself have never, ever done any of that "trail braking" stuff. I've never needed anything like it in all my 55+ years of riding. But, people ride with different techniques.
''But, people ride with different techniques'' Most people ride with NO technique what so ever. They ride using instincts. Riding skillfully, is the exact opposite of your instincts. For instance, when a car turns left in front of you, instinct says LOOK AT THAT CAR! Instead of your escape path. If you look at the car, chances are, you're going to hit that car since the hands follow the eyes. As far as learning to trail brake, it's a great tool to have even if you ride so leisurely that you don't need to do anything but steer thru a turn. How, why? If you come around a blind curve and something appears in your way, if you already have a little pressure (1%) on the front brake, your fork is compressed a bit, squeezing a bit more to slow, or stop, will be easy. If instead, your hand is not already on the brake, it's going to take 1.5 seconds to even begin braking and you'll tend to snatch that brake and then you're going down. But of course, you can do what ever you care to do. Ignorance is bliss, as they say. You'll never need any riding skills until you do.
@@motorman857 Jerry, I learn something from just about every post you make, especially the videos. Here you just gave me a tip nobody has ever told me. ( Dont look at the car) look at your escape path. I have a 5th gen 2016 wing and I practice with soccer cones and I have dropped my bike. It seems to happen when girls are watching. Last time she helped me pick it up. 5th gen tip over bars are brilliant, not a scratch on it. That’s another issue with the new Goldwing, ineffective tip over protection.
Thanks for the informative video I was wondering about that. I guess if you are going to take a class you might be better off with a manual bike. Outside of that infrequent slow speed maneuvers should be okay like from everyday riding. To bad we learned something from someone else’s expenses mistake.
Classes usually supply the bikes for you. Largely due to having the same characteristics so the instructor can simplify some of the things. In my experience it has been like that and most "classes" use a 250 cc bike. I know it isn't everywhere.
Here, for MSF courses they only supply standardized bikes for the intro "beginner" initial class that gets you your license. For all of the "advanced rider" classes, you ride whatever you bring.
@@GoldwingDocs Was wondering about that. I first got licensed in 1980 in Va for a motorcycle license and the Navy made me take a safety course. I rode my own bike, even in a beginner's class. I always take my smallest cc bike cause it is light, easy to handle but my ZX11 would be easy too, it handles well in low speed. But most people have 1 and now I have multiple, dependent on the riding style I anticipate.
Sorry you are mistaken, DCT in cars is available only on very high end ones and its awesome, best transmission ever made for cars, you are thinking of the CRAP CVT transmissions from Nissan for example, which is way different tech than DCT. CVT is indeed the worst of the worst i would pull my own testicles first than getting a car with a CVT on it.
i wonder if using the DCT manual mode and keeping it in first gear for classes or slow speed practice would alleviate allot of the issues. i backed out last minute on buying a 2018 dct goldwing and one of the things i noticed on the test drive was how it loved to upshift rather quickly at slow speeds. after 10 yrs on my victory vision i still can't find anything more comfortable. i know, i know, looks weird,,, no bike is perfect,,,lol
What I don't understand is if your fully in1st Gear then how can the clutch be slipping. Its not like the friction zone you can have with a standard transmission. 1000-1200 rpm is nothing on standard transmission bikes so how would it be different on a DCT which is fully engaged. The only thing that should wear prematurely is the brakes. I guess if you were at 3-4000+ rpm and held the brakes so the bike couldn't move that might do it. But at 1200 rpm I'm only worried about wearing the brakes. I have 26000 miles and do a lot of slow speed training and so far no problems.
If the bike is moving slower than it would be moving at the current engine RPM, then the DCT computer will slip the clutch automatically. Otherwise the engine would stall. The computer automatically slips the clutch at slow speeds. So if you are riding at slow speeds for extended amounts of time, then you are slipping your clutch - a LOT. You just don't know that you are, because the computer is doing it without your knowledge.
This is why I will keep the 2015 I have. I will upgrade when they get all the bugs worked out. I never buy a fresh new model. And to think all the people that this will happen to after the warranty expires. Good luck to them.
THERE MAY BE A SOLUTION TO HONDA REFUSING TO FIX THE CLUTCH UNDER WARRANTY... I have had a few disputes where the warranty doesn't cover things but read on... I'm in the UK but I imagine that consumer protection law is similar in the United States. Statutory rights or consumer rights give buyers additional protection when goods fail, even outside of the warranty period, or even if the warranty excludes the fault. In the UK we have the CONSUMER RIGHTS ACT; this states that goods must be of a reasonable quality, and one of these "quality" aspects is that goods (like motorcycles!) must be DURABLE! I would think that a clutch wearing out in 3 weeks speaks for itself - it does not meet the requirements of durability, especially when the manufacturer has failed to advise against what is a fairly common practice i.e. slow speed maneuvering! I suspect Honda simply did not know or think about this - that is not the buyer's problem - it is Honda's problem! I would suggest looking at U.S. consumer rights law or taking some legal advice (any biking attorneys in the U.S. listening out there...?). Honda will not want to acknowledge this unless forced to - it could open the floodgates for claims. I would pursue a claim - they might not like the adverse publicity and just fix it to make it go away - good luck!
I own a 2018 Honda GW. I have the same problem with "snowflakes". I've been trying to solve it for about two years now. So far no result. I changed the battery in a motorcycle, I changed the battery in the smart key. I changed the key itself to a completely new one. Also removed all errors in the motorcycle's computer memory. Rebuilt auto clutch switch settings. I can say one thing. Every time an error occurs, I stop the bike and disconnect the battery power for 3-5 minutes. Then I can go. The problem is repeated more and more often, if before I could drive 500 km without error, now I can’t even 50. And I’m sure that turns and a sharp start and brake have nothing to do with it.
Precisely why I won't buy any bike with a DCT trans. If I were to buy a new Wing, I'd get the standard manual trans model. Sounds like the bike owner has a good lawsuit against Honda.
When I practice slow speed riding in the parking lot on my 2021 Gold Wing Standard, I always put the DCT in manual, and leave it in first gear. You don't want the bike shifting up in those situations anyway. That should take the clutch out of play.
Also I have over 20,000 miles on the DCT now with no issues. I do some parking lot practice about every other week or so, but always leave it in first gear and in manual mode. It shifts up too quickly for automatic mode in parking lot drills. I also have a normal clutch bike, Harley. I find it more difficult in the slow speed drills. With the DCT you have to be concerned about throttle and brake. With the clutch bike, you need to learn three things instead of two: Friction zone on the clutch, throttle control, and rear brake. I actually like the DCT better for these drills.
First I heard this. While I agree there may be better tools for the job, riding a GW slow speed should not result in a destroyed dct clutch. That smacks of design flaw.
Meh. I have 55,000 trouble-free miles on my 2018 Tour DCT. I know a few guys with over 100,000 trouble-free miles on theirs. Thousands of GL DCTs sold and ONE has a problem. And many on here claim it's the bike. Yeah, sure.
To make the story short. In September 22, after starting the GoldWing DCT Tour (2018) the Screen was black and no gear-Information on the panel. I could ride the GW for about 100 miles just in the Tour-mode back home. It appeared, that the 20Amps Fuse of the Audio Control Unit was melted. I found a specialist who was able to locate the failure on the platine of the Audio Control Unit. It was a faulty diode. That cost me 500 Bucks instead of paying a new Audio Control Unit for 2-3 Grant. Ok, now the screen is back with all it's functions. Still not able to put it in gear. There is a failure in the Foward Can-Bus Control Unit which you can't delete with the Laptop connected. Because the unit is sealed in a plastic case there is no chance to repair it. I have to buy a new one but still waiting for it. I hope that the failure is gone after that. I guess that during the high current short which melted the 20 Amps fuse of the Audio Unit, some peak current went into the Control Unit and damaged it. Everything with this monster-failure is still mysterious.
Over exaggerating ONE riders issue. You cannot burn out TWO sets of clutches riding the bike normally. Now we are suppose to be upset with Honda for not covering a SECOND set of clutches? If you are looking to buy a bike to ride around in a parking lot the Wing is the WRONG tool for the job. If you are looking for a TOURING bike there is nothing better OR more reliable. Use a screwdriver to drive a nail... you may be able to do it, but you will quickly break the screwdriver. PS: Don't take the Wing on a motocross course either. Something might break and Honda probably won't cover it.
The clutch of a vehicle should hold up under all normal driving conditions. Yes, including slow speed riding. Most bikes sold aren't constantly going on long trips, and lots of people buy larger bikes so they can use them all the time.
@@oldmanjim2376 well firstly the slow riding competitions / Moto jitsu is not the same as slow riding on the public road which doesn’t subject the bike to such a continuous load on brakes and transmission and frankly if Honda Goldwing DCT gearboxes we’re constantly failing under normal riding conditions you truly believe that Honda would not put this correct or there would be a DVLA recall, common really 🤷♂️🤦♂️
Honda can attempt to take this position, but unless they specifically state in the owners manual that excessive slow riding maneuvers can cause damage to their NEW DCT transmission (Like they supply recommendations for the style of riding for the breaking in period) an average lawyer will have them covering this repair under warranty and losing a loyal customer during the process.Where this owner’s riding style may be different than mine, Honda will have to prove he knowingly used the bike in a manner in which it was not designed.Being that the bike is in otherwise brand new condition outside of the clutch Good luck to Honda proving to a judge this owner was abusing this machine.Once Honda figured out why this issue was happening they should’ve warranty this repair with a written warning of what not to do with their DCT transmission . Slow speed riding and maneuvering is an long time accepted riding style taught by many including police departments.Mass adoption of the DCT transmissions are fairly new to the industry.
@@richardarceneaux4514 Yes. If all you do is cruise down the road, make big wide turns, and come to an easy stop, you won't have a problem. But, if you ever have to lean turn, swerve then stop quickly, and you've never practiced that, you'll be in big trouble when that car turns left in front of you.
I guess Honda knew Goldwing riders wouldn't practice maneuvers when they designed the DCT. I could understand if it was a year or two, but not in such a short time.
Wow, rarely did you ever hear of a Goldwing ever even needing a clutch. I am on my third Wing and I ride them like I stole them and never had a problem. I am really not fond of the looks of the new generation anyway. If I were to get one it would be a 6 speed manual.
Honda hasn't perfected the clutch yet, and all the auto sensor electronics glitches in the cold and or other negative adverse conditions. I drive Semi Truck, and we have the same issues with Big trucks. Honda has over teched out their flagship bike and ruined it in my humble opinion. How can you under perform a cars automatic transmission by driving to slow, pathetic!
Riding the rear brake wall riding slow maneuvers is not trailbreaking, trailbreaking is riding the brakes into a corner, then letting off as you leen into the corner and accelerate out. Riding the rear brake doing slow maneuvering is just riding the rear break.
At slow speeds that procedure will still cause it to slip the clutch continually, which is exactly the problem that this video is about. Once it gets below a certain speed, the DCT will begin to slip the clutch to avoid bogging down the engine. If you rear brake like you say, it will bog the engine, the DCT will slip the clutch, and if you do that for any amount of time, it will overheat and wear out the clutch.
Same thing happened to me on my brand-new 2007 Wing (Airbag). I was practicing the box, just for a few mins, and the tranny siezed and the internals shattered. I had to pay to have a new tranny and other parts.
And if you do "slow speed riding" you don*t have to tell fuck... Honda and as such they can't deny warranty. Don't be honest to them it won't by off.A bike with such a price tag MUST manage all sorts of driving styles
Mother Honda is a bugger with warranty, as in the gost shifting and head bearings. I've been told by factory rep never never heard of gost shifting and just don't take your hands off the bars.
I think this goes to prove even with all the super smart electronics we have, slick transmissions that give smooth effortless changes the best computer is still the human being on the bike (or in the car). The DCT can't hold it's hand up and say woah hang on a minute son, thats quite enough of that, it just carries on doing what it's programmed to do to failure.
Honda should fix this issue. The guy should sue. Slow or fast should not matter. The clutch should not be burning up like it is happening. I won't be buying any DCT until Honda fixes this issue.
If the bike is moving slower than it would be moving at the current engine RPM in first year, then the DCT computer will slip the clutch automatically. Otherwise the engine would stall. The computer automatically slips the clutch at slow speeds. So if you are riding at slow speeds for extended amounts of time, even in first gear, then you are slipping your clutch - a LOT. You just don't know that you are, because the computer is doing it without your knowledge.
Honda's obsession with continued over-reliance of electronics and everything automatic, will be fundamentally the demise of their success as far as the Gold Wing is concerned. A behemoth going down the hwy. at 80 miles per hour for hours on end, has no business to be so electronic dependent (unless redundancy is used) to possibly cause some failure where you are unable to put the engine in neutral or pull the clutch to disengage. DCT is quite good for smaller bikes and urban warriors, not so good for a heavy tourer. IMHO
There are millions of vehicles with auto gearboxes that run day after day in slow moving city traffic without a difficulty. If their flagship bike can't take this part of life, then problem is the GW, not your man. If you had a manual gearbox bike would that suffer the same problem? Of course, possibly your man is dragging the rear brake ALL the time, that'll kill the clutch...
First, trail braking has nothing to do with applying rear brake during low speed turns. Trail braking is using the front brake (or rear brake) in high speed turns. You trail on the brake entering a turn then trail off the brake when you're happy with your lean angle and speed. As for the clutch problems on DCT bikes, the only way to avoid this problem is to not use any brake for low speed turns. Because the throttle is very sensitive, this will take lots and lots of practice. Honda could easily fix this problem by either having an idle control that would allow you to raise the idle so that you don't need to use the throttle while practicing low speed maneuvers, or setting the transmission so you can start off in 2nd or 3rd gear. Yamaha did this with their 1300 sport tourer. I rode one at my class and found that putting the bike in 3rd gear and not using any rear brake, made the bike extremely maneuverable. With the WING dct, you can put it in manual 3 rd gear, but it will still start off in first. Honda should know that many Wing riders participate in top gun competitions and that will wear out the clutch as you know. Now that they no longer make manual transmissions, you're just stuck with the problem.
Nope, Just do not buy a DCT Gold Wing. Money talks if they do not sell then the marketplace has spoken. Honda ain't that stupid, they just got stuck on it for a minute. The marketplace can fix the issue by NOT BUYING Gold Wing DCT bikes. Simple really.
Honda makes a 6-speed manual transmission with the Gold Wing Tour
@@anonimous2451 That ship has already sailed. DCTs are outselling non-DCTs.
Glad you corrected them on "trail braking", if anyone not as credentialed as yourself brings this up, we get shouted down.
@Adam G yea it's like 57% of the Gold Wings sold are DCT...not everybody wants a automatic motorcycle...lots of people still prefer to shift their own gears with a motorcycle
Always a good day when there's new goldwingdocs vidz
Jerry Pallladino took a DCT through his low speed course and while he could do it he said it wasn't as easy as a manual trans bike and wondered if the clutch would hold up. Think I'll stick to the GL bikes.
I forwarded the link to Jerry
Every safety course has a low speed portion you slip the clutch to maintain control. Honda needs to fix the problem or make it known these bikes aren't warranted against clutch failure.
I ride my Africa Twin DCT super slow all the time in sand and mud climbing hills and even parking lot drills. No issues at all 25k Mike's going strong
Good to know if I ever take up slow speed DCT riding. I’ve have a 2018 and currently own a 2021. Both DCT. Never had an issue.
I used to own a DCT Goldwing and do a fair amount of slow-speed riding...but not much on the Goldwing.
I was concerned about a situation similar to this as I did not fully understand how the DCT slipped the clutch in slow-speed maneuvers like this. It was always a concern so I did just enough slow speed to develop the skill on the GW, but in general, if I wanted to practice slow speed I chose one of my other motorcycles with a traditional clutch.
Since I run MCrider and it is focussed on motorcycle training I sold the Goldwing, in part due to the limitations of the DCT for slow-speed riding but also because of concern over what it would do to the motorcycle.
Interesting video!
Glad you sold your hunk of junk, they scalped a beautiful machine with to much tech.
Something to consider before buying a DCT Goldwing.
Hey Scott - the DCT has a manual mode as well. He should put the DCT in manual mode instead of automatic. That way he can control the shifting. Shift to first gear and practice all he wants. The transmission will not shift. No need for clutch.
Several people have suggested this, but it is incorrect. If the bike is moving slower than it would be moving at idle RPM in first year, then the DCT computer will slip the clutch automatically. Otherwise the engine would stall. The computer automatically slips the clutch at slow speeds. So if you are riding at slow speeds for extended amounts of time, even in first gear, particularly if you're dragging your brake to ride slowly, then you are slipping your clutch - a LOT. You just don't know that you are, because the computer is doing it without your knowledge.
@@GoldwingDocs Isn't the same true for a manual clutch? I slip mine a lot, at low speed to do exactly what the computer is doing. Possibly a bit slower and potentially not as well🙂
Wow.. thanks for this video Scott !!
That’s outrageous that riding slow is considered abuse. I’d take them to court. Pretty sure there is no way the could win.
I agree, 100%!
Great to know... Thanks for this! Cheers from Texas.
I don't know about anyone else, or their bike, but my 2018 DCT, with 25k miles handles slow speed maneuvers just fine. I had to practice a little after I bought the bike, but I can do parking lot maneuvers, and u-turns in both directions. The transmission has held up fine, and I don't smell anything like a clutch burning smell. As for the guy with the original issue, for Honda to declare it abuse is really crappy, and I would think they would have to list this use of the bike as abuse in the warranty documentation.
I have almost 175,000 miles on 5 different DCT motorcycle and all generations. Never had this problem. That stated, I haven’t spent too much time practicing slow speed maneuvers. All my DCT bikes handle really well going slow, especially my 2028 GoldenWing, non tour. Thanks for posting. Very interesting.
Did you discover the secret to time travel? 😂
@@danaszalajeski4416 🤣🤣🤣
🤣😂🤣
...Perhaps you meant 2018 vs 2028? :-)
2028 bagger!
nuclear
Here is the link to the original forum posting - if you want to comment directly back to the member who is having the issue, this is where to do it: goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66882 and here is a link to the updated video: th-cam.com/video/zZcw_ft1sFE/w-d-xo.html
This was great information, thank you! I have a 2021 DCT Tour, so I'll be cognizant of this potential issue. You got my subscription 👍!
My thought on trail braking is using the front brake gently in a curve to load the front suspension for better control. Not for dragging the rear brake in slow speed maneuvers.
Exactly.
?
He used the wrong term but we know what he meant. Is there a proper term for dragging the rear brake for slow speed stability?
@@cyclechris6591 slight pressure on the rear brake
@@cyclechris6591 I use "dragging the rear brake"...
THANKS FOR BEING HERE YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON.
If a car driver or a motorcyclist rides the clutch for 95% of the time the vehicle is in use, the clutch will not survive. They are not designed for that. It follows therefore, that to do that is abusing the clutch.
In my view, Honda are within their rights to decline a warranty claim.
The damaged clutch seems to have triggered sensors in this case hence the 'snowflakes'.
Saying the dct or the bike is cr*p is ridiculous.
This video changed my mind from buying a DCT to manual 👏💯
Thank you for the info, I have a 2018.
In the handbooks of my DCT NC700 and CMX1100 it says to use the rear brake to control the speed during low speed manoeuvres another tip is to put it in MA and stay in 1st gear then use the rear brake to control the speed this will avoid the bike trying to shift gear when doing slow speed manoeuvres and the clutch slipping as it changes up and down trying to anticipate what the rider is doing.
"Trail braking" is putting light pressure on the front brake in a curve to lightly push down on the front wheel to give you more traction. It is called "trail braking" because it reduces the "trail" of the fork.
Great video. I'm thinking about the purchase of a DCT Honda Trike maybe a 19 or 20 in the future. Every little bit of information helps. I can't ride a two wheeler any more as I have a bad knee and I like trikes. Have one now a Suzuki Burgman 650 with a old Trinity trike set on the back so a three wheel true trike that can rival with any Honda or Harley as far as keeping up. A great bike. My buddy told me to get a Sea to Sky Can Am but reading the info on that bike there is plenty of issues with electronics and junk parts all plastic and the bike is expensive to maintain far more expensive than a Honda DCT. Look forward to see more of your videos. Thanks
I'm not a bike owner, but I sure am a Goldwing lover. Thanks so much for helping to inform us about this non-normal phenomenon.
Its obviously a design flaw or shortcoming that Honda or their customers could not see coming. Can Honda modify the design of the Goldwing or it's clutch system to not be vulnerable to extended slow-speed riding?
This is the second problem I'm learning about in the Goldwing. The first problem has to with no soare travel in the front wheel strut...its shock absorber is too close to its bumper when the rider sits on the bike.
I have a 2018 DCT. I get the same snowflakes. I do not slow rides, in fact, the only way I can guarantee the problem comes up is if I exceed 4 grand. Everything works the same - shifting is OK but it stays that way until turn off and re-start. I even trikes mine and it still continues.
Honda should come out with a software update that gives you slow mode.
Same problem with my 2018 two years ago. It turned out to be the TCM (Transmission Control Module). 14,000 miles later, and everything is still good.
I have a 2018 DCT, thanks for the info.
Well, I just bought a brand new 2023 GW DCT bike 3 weeks ago, drove home 7 miles and today for the first time took it out for a ride less than 30 miles the exact thing you described happened to me. I did not ride any slow riding except in the normal course of driving as in coming to a stop or coming out of my house in the street. Besides this is the fist times I drove it since bringing it home. Will see Monday when I tow it to the dealer.
Thanks for showing DCT faults. This is such old news and so common with honda DCTs. Thanks again for video ..I had a 15 ctx700 dct & 17 crf1000 dct. Both failed horribly between 20k & 30k+ miles. Sat at dealer for 5 months, with several other DCT bikes with DCT issues. Dealer was fine. Honda America was the issue. NO DEALER SUPPORT !! 50 yr daily rider, ill never touch anything from honda again.. buy the shop service manuel. Its so massive in size just for the DCT part. No wonder techs are lost ! There’s a reason no other manufactures will put a DCT on a motorcycle.. I basically gave my DCT bikes away.. a smart Japanese software engineer rider.. was buying bad honda DCTs. He fixed many, says many different faults, but its all software, ecm, computer related. Theres the facts
Computer controlled transmissions are constantly learning based on how you ride. If you do lots of slow speed riding, like slow maneuvers, the computer learns that it needs to be in first gear or it gets confused by what it is trying to learn. If it happens again, park it, disconnect the battery for a while to clear what has been learned then reconnect the battery. If that works, switch to Manual when doing these training maneuvers. Even on cars a CVT transmission learns. When I disconnect the battery I have to re-teach the transmission. The quickest way is to use the manual mode and the paddle shifters on the steering wheel. Once it has my shift pattern back I go to Automatic mode and it is fine.
I watch the Preload channel as well as the Paladino channel. I have a 2002 Gl1800 and the first thing I thought of was how those DCT's handled the slow speed maneuvers with clutch slippage... I guess , now I know. I don't do a ton of slow speed skills drills just due to the fact that doing a clutch on a GL1800 is no easy task...
Had same trouble with mine took it to 2 dealers they not got a clue found fault myself in the end it was a faulty dct relay
i have a 2020 DCT Tour. I have tried the parking lot practice with it on several occasions. It is indeed a different skill set than with a manual clutch bike. I was more proficient on my GL1500SE than on this bike, but after reading this (and dropping and scuffing the saddlebag), I am not going to prioritize slow speed maneuvers. I like the DCT and will enjoy it for what it is. I can do reasonable turns and feel confindent in traffic so I am comfortable. I will still practice some slow speed parking lot maneuvers, but it is not going to be a priority to emulate Jerry Palladino. I ascribe to the comments of MCRIDER in this thread.
If the computer can't handle that type of riding it needs to be Presented up front and it owns manual.
For a bike that should be ablevto get 200,000+ miles on it with moral riding. You would think the clutch could handle more than 1000 mile even riding a lot of low speeds.
Wonder if there's anything in the owners manual warning about this type of riding? I have a 2020 6-speed Tour and have no interest in the DCT.
I had the some problem with honda Fireblade 2021 they said if I use launch control more than 3 times they do not cover it under warranty and if I change the setting with it not running it kills the battery
So just finished up a supposedly 5,000 mile trip on my 2018 DCT. I say supposedly as my bike had its second shift motor failure, 1400 miles from home, loaded it up into a cargo van and transported it home. There were no slow course handling drills going on, but two events of heavy stop and go traffic, both events ended up with the bike failing on a bridge and in one of them the bike failed completely on the top of the bridge. The first failure was at about 35,000 miles, the second one at 72,000 miles, I tend to ride a bit. Honda is fixing it again as I have an extended warranty. I love my DCT but when on long trips can you avoid stop and go traffic caused by road work or from crossing back into the USA stuck for two hours to go 1.5 miles..
how long will these dct last? 60k mls?
I put 6000 miles on my 22 DCT and I mostly ride on low speed because of the traffic conditions and I haven’t had any problems with mine so far…😊
Thank you so much, you probably saved me a clutch as I was planning on doing my yearly low speed classes on my new Wing. Appreciate the heads up and this really sucks on Honda's part to call taking a class to become a better rider, abuse. SMH. Sounds like a software update would perhaps alleviate this problem.
🤔...by software update you are referring to the clutch-actuating software...right?
@@AhmadDanHamidu Of course. What other good would a software update do to alleviate low speed maneuvering to clutch wear?
Which of the two clutches failed? The DCT has a clutch for odd and even gears, so which one failed or did both fail?
Good info.
Thanks for bringing that up. Im 74 and thinking about the gw trike .im thinking u wouldn't have that problem. Your thoughts please
Hello all, I currently ride a 2006 Suzuki Boulevard and plan to buy a 2023 DCT GW this spring. The local Harley Davidson dealer offers advanced riding skills classes (they provide the bikes). My only thought regarding the GW vs HD riding skills class is "Will the skills I learn on a bike with a clutch transfer over when I ride the Goldwing?" I think i have decent skills working a clutch + a throttle (of course, there is always room for improvement) and I saw one of Jerry Palladino's videos with a GW DCT and he did say low speed manuevers are tougher with the automatic clutch. Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on my dilemma? Despite this issue, I still want a GW DCT, but I also want to take more riding classes.
The first thing I would have tried is a Reset Initialization of the DCT Transmission. This should be done after every service, and whenever the shifts feel less than perfect (1-minute process)…
- [ ] Sit on the bike with the parking brake on (the rear wheel must not move)
- [ ] Run the engine until 3 bars are indicated (normal running temperature)
- [ ] Turn off the motorcycle
- [ ] Hold the D-switch in, turn the ignition on, and keep the D-switch held in
- [ ] When the engine graphic (‘mill lamp’) idiot light goes off, then release the D-switch
- [ ] Press the switches in the following sequence order (D-D-N-D-N)
- [ ] (do ‘not’ open the throttle, but…) start the engine and let it idle
- [ ] A cigar-shaped emblem appears on the dash and flashes every two seconds
- [ ] If it flashes faster, the rear wheel must be turning (sit on the bike, rather than center-stand)
- [ ] Any transmission noises are perfectly normal, as the computer initializes and resets gears
- [ ] When the cigar emblem becomes a Neutral indicator and Tour Mode shows, the process is complete
- [ ] Turn the bike off, and on again. check the bike is still showing neutral and tour mode in the dash
Then complete the video game with a 'flawless victory'!
Did he ignore his "Clutch Overheat" indicator light for a long time?
Yes, one can burn a clutch riding as you described (higher RPM, in the friction zone, and rear braking). The energy of the motor has to go somewhere; and that somewhere is heat in the rear brake and clutch plates. HOWEVER, one can practice slow speed riding without burning up stuff. Skillful riders do it all the time.
They are talking dct…not manual.
Those are riders with a clutch they can control.
Scott, great Video. One observation you typically look good in your vids and when I clicked on the play and saw your hair, I was like, Geez did he wake up from a nap and decide to not look in the mirror before doing the vid. Or maybe your brain got an idea and your hair exploded ? Anyway, good info.
haha, just growing it out.
Yes it really annoyed me that this guy said trail braking was what he said . It’s the friction zone !!!
I suggest that replacing the battery in this case just reset the computer which he could have done without replacing the battery, just disconnect the existing battery for an hour or so and reconnect it. Even if a battery only has 70% life left, it should not cause any computer issues. The biggest draw on a battery is the starter, so if the bike starts, everything else should work fine.
NOT just one rider’s problem. My experience with this is that it’s always associated with low voltage electrical system. I ride at least 700 miles a month average so i felt no need to use a battery tender, especially during warm months.
The bike was having “hard” starts. Sometimes there were “klacking” sounds intermittently when moving from a stop and especially in the walking gear. Occasionally the snow flakes would display on start up. Running the bike for a few minutes,shutting it off, and repeating 4 or 5 times would clear the issue.
I’ve begun putting my ‘21 DCT on a battery tender every time i park it at home and even while on trips when the bike road parked over night. Since using the tender religiously, none of those issues have recurred.
Fortunately the ECM has not destroyed any clutches because I caught the problem early.
My opinion: the low power to the ECM while parked is the issue. The Goldwing either has an inherent power drain or the battery is simply not enough to keep the ECM happy when the bike is shutdown. Same thing happens to some laptops. The battery drains over time even though the device has been off.
It’s just my theory. As for low speed maneuvering, i use the RAIN setting and rear brake. Comments?
this is wild!
I had this situation in my GL Bagger 2021 DCT, I currently have 2000 km driven, and I have concerns for the next season that the situation may happen again. For now, my GL is under warranty, but what will happen when the warranty ends? At the last review at the dealer I asked what was going on, unfortunately they ignored my question.
This is my 3th GoldWing and probably the last one.
I'm really surprised at how many comments have come out of the woodwork from owners such as yourself who have had this problem!
Read my comment here. Both mine were 3 gen. Faults do not affect all bikes, but even a few is real disappointing.
Great videos! Thank you!
Well,
When I read about this type thing, I have to be cautious in trying to determine what or who is at fault. Honda, as far as I know, has had the DCT clutch system in place now for over 10 years. They have provided it on multiple bikes, including the Honda Talon. I can think of many, many places and situations where slow speed driving/riding takes place. The slow speed maneuvering like in parking lots, to me, is very similar to stop and go driving where traffic is backed up and you get to move only every so often. I mean, what's the difference in slow speed parking lot practicing and stop and go driving where you never get out of first gear and barely get going at that before you slow down again?
I have no idea what, if any number of issues the DCT has had over its production lifetime, up to this point. But it sure seems that Honda would take into account, any and all potential slow speed operations, like condensed traffic and not provide safeguards against premature breakdowns or wear. Now, I don't do a whole lot of parking lot practice. I have done some but, it's normally about 30 seconds worth if and when I do it. So, if there's any "burning or heating" of the clutch(s) I sure as heck don't approach that time frame.
Now, has the person in question done this on his TWO DCT Honda Goldwings, did the slow speed maneuvering to the point where the clutches are heating up? I wonder, what kind of time is needed for that kind of situation to appear? Hmmmm. I myself have never, ever done any of that "trail braking" stuff. I've never needed anything like it in all my 55+ years of riding. But, people ride with different techniques.
''But, people ride with different techniques'' Most people ride with NO technique what so ever. They ride using instincts. Riding skillfully, is the exact opposite of your instincts. For instance, when a car turns left in front of you, instinct says LOOK AT THAT CAR! Instead of your escape path. If you look at the car, chances are, you're going to hit that car since the hands follow the eyes. As far as learning to trail brake, it's a great tool to have even if you ride so leisurely that you don't need to do anything but steer thru a turn. How, why? If you come around a blind curve and something appears in your way, if you already have a little pressure (1%) on the front brake, your fork is compressed a bit, squeezing a bit more to slow, or stop, will be easy. If instead, your hand is not already on the brake, it's going to take 1.5 seconds to even begin braking and you'll tend to snatch that brake and then you're going down. But of course, you can do what ever you care to do. Ignorance is bliss, as they say. You'll never need any riding skills until you do.
@@motorman857 Jerry, I learn something from just about every post you make, especially the videos. Here you just gave me a tip nobody has ever told me. ( Dont look at the car) look at your escape path. I have a 5th gen 2016 wing and I practice with soccer cones and I have dropped my bike. It seems to happen when girls are watching. Last time she helped me pick it up. 5th gen tip over bars are brilliant, not a scratch on it. That’s another issue with the new Goldwing, ineffective tip over protection.
@@cyclechris6591 Glad to help.
Thanks for the informative video I was wondering about that. I guess if you are going to take a class you might be better off with a manual bike. Outside of that infrequent slow speed maneuvers should be okay like from everyday riding. To bad we learned something from someone else’s expenses mistake.
Classes usually supply the bikes for you. Largely due to having the same characteristics so the instructor can simplify some of the things. In my experience it has been like that and most "classes" use a 250 cc bike. I know it isn't everywhere.
Here, for MSF courses they only supply standardized bikes for the intro "beginner" initial class that gets you your license. For all of the "advanced rider" classes, you ride whatever you bring.
@@GoldwingDocs Was wondering about that. I first got licensed in 1980 in Va for a motorcycle license and the Navy made me take a safety course. I rode my own bike, even in a beginner's class. I always take my smallest cc bike cause it is light, easy to handle but my ZX11 would be easy too, it handles well in low speed. But most people have 1 and now I have multiple, dependent on the riding style I anticipate.
So no Goldwing Dct motorcade's! No biggie here but do they use Harley's in Japan?
It took a month to figure out the clutch was bad?
They've had a lot of this trouble with DCTs in cars as well - enough that some manufacturers are moving back to regular autos with a torque converter.
Sorry you are mistaken, DCT in cars is available only on very high end ones and its awesome, best transmission ever made for cars, you are thinking of the CRAP CVT transmissions from Nissan for example, which is way different tech than DCT. CVT is indeed the worst of the worst i would pull my own testicles first than getting a car with a CVT on it.
What happens if you get stuck in stop-and-go traffic. There are many cities where this could be a daily occurrence.
i wonder if using the DCT manual mode and keeping it in first gear for classes or slow speed practice would alleviate allot of the issues. i backed out last minute on buying a 2018 dct goldwing and one of the things i noticed on the test drive was how it loved to upshift rather quickly at slow speeds. after 10 yrs on my victory vision i still can't find anything more comfortable. i know, i know, looks weird,,, no bike is perfect,,,lol
my thought also but no.
What I don't understand is if your fully in1st Gear then how can the clutch be slipping. Its not like the friction zone you can have with a standard transmission. 1000-1200 rpm is nothing on standard transmission bikes so how would it be different on a DCT which is fully engaged. The only thing that should wear prematurely is the brakes. I guess if you were at 3-4000+ rpm and held the brakes so the bike couldn't move that might do it. But at 1200 rpm I'm only worried about wearing the brakes.
I have 26000 miles and do a lot of slow speed training and so far no problems.
If the bike is moving slower than it would be moving at the current engine RPM, then the DCT computer will slip the clutch automatically. Otherwise the engine would stall. The computer automatically slips the clutch at slow speeds. So if you are riding at slow speeds for extended amounts of time, then you are slipping your clutch - a LOT. You just don't know that you are, because the computer is doing it without your knowledge.
This is why I will keep the 2015 I have. I will upgrade when they get all the bugs worked out. I never buy a fresh new model. And to think all the people that this will happen to after the warranty expires. Good luck to them.
That seat looks amazing.y comfy.
It really is! Most comfortable seat I've ever ridden on. It's a Corbin.
THERE MAY BE A SOLUTION TO HONDA REFUSING TO FIX THE CLUTCH UNDER WARRANTY... I have had a few disputes where the warranty doesn't cover things but read on... I'm in the UK but I imagine that consumer protection law is similar in the United States. Statutory rights or consumer rights give buyers additional protection when goods fail, even outside of the warranty period, or even if the warranty excludes the fault. In the UK we have the CONSUMER RIGHTS ACT; this states that goods must be of a reasonable quality, and one of these "quality" aspects is that goods (like motorcycles!) must be DURABLE! I would think that a clutch wearing out in 3 weeks speaks for itself - it does not meet the requirements of durability, especially when the manufacturer has failed to advise against what is a fairly common practice i.e. slow speed maneuvering! I suspect Honda simply did not know or think about this - that is not the buyer's problem - it is Honda's problem! I would suggest looking at U.S. consumer rights law or taking some legal advice (any biking attorneys in the U.S. listening out there...?). Honda will not want to acknowledge this unless forced to - it could open the floodgates for claims. I would pursue a claim - they might not like the adverse publicity and just fix it to make it go away - good luck!
I own a 2018 Honda GW. I have the same problem with "snowflakes". I've been trying to solve it for about two years now. So far no result. I changed the battery in a motorcycle, I changed the battery in the smart key. I changed the key itself to a completely new one. Also removed all errors in the motorcycle's computer memory. Rebuilt auto clutch switch settings. I can say one thing. Every time an error occurs, I stop the bike and disconnect the battery power for 3-5 minutes. Then I can go. The problem is repeated more and more often, if before I could drive 500 km without error, now I can’t even 50. And I’m sure that turns and a sharp start and brake have nothing to do with it.
Precisely why I won't buy any bike with a DCT trans. If I were to buy a new Wing, I'd get the standard manual trans model.
Sounds like the bike owner has a good lawsuit against Honda.
Your smart. Stay manuel ! That’s coming from someone that’s had 2 DCT hondas Don’t get near them
When I practice slow speed riding in the parking lot on my 2021 Gold Wing Standard, I always put the DCT in manual, and leave it in first gear. You don't want the bike shifting up in those situations anyway. That should take the clutch out of play.
Also I have over 20,000 miles on the DCT now with no issues. I do some parking lot practice about every other week or so, but always leave it in first gear and in manual mode. It shifts up too quickly for automatic mode in parking lot drills. I also have a normal clutch bike, Harley. I find it more difficult in the slow speed drills. With the DCT you have to be concerned about throttle and brake. With the clutch bike, you need to learn three things instead of two: Friction zone on the clutch, throttle control, and rear brake. I actually like the DCT better for these drills.
First I heard this. While I agree there may be better tools for the job, riding a GW slow speed should not result in a destroyed dct clutch. That smacks of design flaw.
Meh. I have 55,000 trouble-free miles on my 2018 Tour DCT. I know a few guys with over 100,000 trouble-free miles on theirs. Thousands of GL DCTs sold and ONE has a problem. And many on here claim it's the bike. Yeah, sure.
To make the story short. In September 22, after starting the GoldWing DCT Tour (2018) the Screen was black and no gear-Information on the panel. I could ride the GW for about 100 miles just in the Tour-mode back home. It appeared, that the 20Amps Fuse of the Audio Control Unit was melted. I found a specialist who was able to locate the failure on the platine of the Audio Control Unit. It was a faulty diode. That cost me 500 Bucks instead of paying a new Audio Control Unit for 2-3 Grant. Ok, now the screen is back with all it's functions. Still not able to put it in gear. There is a failure in the Foward Can-Bus Control Unit which you can't delete with the Laptop connected. Because the unit is sealed in a plastic case there is no chance to repair it. I have to buy a new one but still waiting for it. I hope that the failure is gone after that. I guess that during the high current short which melted the 20 Amps fuse of the Audio Unit, some peak current went into the Control Unit and damaged it. Everything with this monster-failure is still mysterious.
I think the dispute is going to be over the phrase "implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose."
Over exaggerating ONE riders issue. You cannot burn out TWO sets of clutches riding the bike normally. Now we are suppose to be upset with Honda for not covering a SECOND set of clutches? If you are looking to buy a bike to ride around in a parking lot the Wing is the WRONG tool for the job. If you are looking for a TOURING bike there is nothing better OR more reliable. Use a screwdriver to drive a nail... you may be able to do it, but you will quickly break the screwdriver. PS: Don't take the Wing on a motocross course either. Something might break and Honda probably won't cover it.
Well said and exactly my thoughts too, why the heck purchase a £32000 bike to ride around a car park
Took the words right out my mouth.
The clutch of a vehicle should hold up under all normal driving conditions. Yes, including slow speed riding. Most bikes sold aren't constantly going on long trips, and lots of people buy larger bikes so they can use them all the time.
@@oldmanjim2376 well firstly the slow riding competitions / Moto jitsu is not the same as slow riding on the public road which doesn’t subject the bike to such a continuous load on brakes and transmission and frankly if Honda Goldwing DCT gearboxes we’re constantly failing under normal riding conditions you truly believe that Honda would not put this correct or there would be a DVLA recall, common really 🤷♂️🤦♂️
Honda can attempt to take this position, but unless they specifically state in the owners manual that excessive slow riding maneuvers can cause damage to their NEW DCT transmission (Like they supply recommendations for the style of riding for the breaking in period) an average lawyer will have them covering this repair under warranty and losing a loyal customer during the process.Where this owner’s
riding style may be different
than mine, Honda will have to prove he knowingly used the bike in a manner in which it was not designed.Being that the bike is in otherwise brand new condition outside of the clutch Good luck to Honda proving to a judge this owner was abusing this machine.Once Honda figured out why this issue was happening they should’ve warranty this repair with a written warning of what not to do with their DCT transmission . Slow speed riding and maneuvering is an long time accepted riding style taught by many including police departments.Mass adoption of the DCT transmissions are fairly new to the industry.
DCR is bad, many cars have problems with DCT/DSG, the clutches cannot drive with high torque in high gear.
DCT is the best bike Honda ever made many with over 100,000 miles without a problem.
@@richardarceneaux4514 Yes. If all you do is cruise down the road, make big wide turns, and come to an easy stop, you won't have a problem. But, if you ever have to lean turn, swerve then stop quickly, and you've never practiced that, you'll be in big trouble when that car turns left in front of you.
I guess Honda knew Goldwing riders wouldn't practice maneuvers when they designed the DCT. I could understand if it was a year or two, but not in such a short time.
I have the same issue.
Wow, rarely did you ever hear of a Goldwing ever even needing a clutch. I am on my third Wing and I ride them like I stole them and never had a problem. I am really not fond of the looks of the new generation anyway. If I were to get one it would be a 6 speed manual.
Being a DCT owner….and trying low speed riding rear brake,,,,,you can smell clutch burn after every session imo🤷♂️
A wet clutch doesn’t burn up.. I do a decent amount of slow speed practice and haven’t toasted my clutch
Honda hasn't perfected the clutch yet, and all the auto sensor electronics glitches in the cold and or other negative adverse conditions. I drive Semi Truck, and we have the same issues with Big trucks. Honda has over teched out their flagship bike and ruined it in my humble opinion. How can you under perform a cars automatic transmission by driving to slow, pathetic!
Honda should fix this problem..so it safe to ride.
Riding the rear brake wall riding slow maneuvers is not trailbreaking, trailbreaking is riding the brakes into a corner, then letting off as you leen into the corner and accelerate out. Riding the rear brake doing slow maneuvering is just riding the rear break.
DCT: Rain mode, manual mode, put in 1st gear, keep RPMs at 1500 and rear brake. Done and done.
At slow speeds that procedure will still cause it to slip the clutch continually, which is exactly the problem that this video is about. Once it gets below a certain speed, the DCT will begin to slip the clutch to avoid bogging down the engine. If you rear brake like you say, it will bog the engine, the DCT will slip the clutch, and if you do that for any amount of time, it will overheat and wear out the clutch.
Same thing happened to me on my brand-new 2007 Wing (Airbag). I was practicing the box, just for a few mins, and the tranny siezed and the internals shattered. I had to pay to have a new tranny and other parts.
Im w Honda here, Uncle Pulltabs IS mis-using the bike.
It's time for pappi to ride a trike.
Sounds like he needs a good attorney.
I wonder what Honda bike Honda corporate would recommend that this guy buy? Since the Honda flagship can no longer hold up to slow speed practice?
And if you do "slow speed riding" you don*t have to tell fuck... Honda and as such they can't deny warranty. Don't be honest to them it won't by off.A bike with such a price tag MUST manage all sorts of driving styles
Mother Honda is a bugger with warranty, as in the gost shifting and head bearings.
I've been told by factory rep never never heard of gost shifting and just don't take your hands off the bars.
Dct rebel 1100 same
I think this goes to prove even with all the super smart electronics we have, slick transmissions that give smooth effortless changes the best computer is still the human being on the bike (or in the car). The DCT can't hold it's hand up and say woah hang on a minute son, thats quite enough of that, it just carries on doing what it's programmed to do to failure.
This probably isn’t the type of advertisement Honda wanted
😉
Honda should fix this issue. The guy should sue. Slow or fast should not matter. The clutch should not be burning up like it is happening. I won't be buying any DCT until Honda fixes this issue.
Why not select manual mode for low speed practice? The trans would stay in 1st gear, and the rider could just use trail breaking.
If the bike is moving slower than it would be moving at the current engine RPM in first year, then the DCT computer will slip the clutch automatically. Otherwise the engine would stall. The computer automatically slips the clutch at slow speeds. So if you are riding at slow speeds for extended amounts of time, even in first gear, then you are slipping your clutch - a LOT. You just don't know that you are, because the computer is doing it without your knowledge.
Goldwings have issues too! 😮😂
Honda's obsession with continued over-reliance of electronics and everything automatic, will be fundamentally the demise of their success as far as the Gold Wing is concerned. A behemoth going down the hwy. at 80 miles per hour for hours on end, has no business to be so electronic dependent (unless redundancy is used) to possibly cause some failure where you are unable to put the engine in neutral or pull the clutch to disengage. DCT is quite good for smaller bikes and urban warriors, not so good for a heavy tourer. IMHO
There are millions of vehicles with auto gearboxes that run day after day in slow moving city traffic without a difficulty. If their flagship bike can't take this part of life, then problem is the GW, not your man. If you had a manual gearbox bike would that suffer the same problem? Of course, possibly your man is dragging the rear brake ALL the time, that'll kill the clutch...