Pathfinder 2E: Debuffing AC

A look at circumstance penalties and status penalties that debuff monster Armor Class. Use flanking or some other method to make monsters flat-footed to give them a -2 circumstance penalty to AC. Use poison, spells, consummables, ancestry abilities, monk or rogue feats, a critical hit with a spear and possibly other ways to give a status penalty to armor class. Finally, there is one other method, a forbidden lore we can't speak of and certainly can't write down, but it may be able to give ONE MORE tiny minus one penalty to armor class using an untyped penalty. All that AND a talking shake here on the Crunch McDabbles Show.

[@peterwall799]

The sickened and frightened conditions also gives a status penalty to AC in addition to giving penaltys to the monsters attack roll and saves. Very good conditions to try for if possible.

[@LegendaryCMD]

Ah yeah! I always leave something out. Great catch!!

[@AlastarTehMaster]

Yeah in one of my games there's an alchemist toxicologist that mixes hunting spider and giant wasp and puts it on everyone's weapon. That plus the Intimidate bard with battle cry makes most of my big bosses have -3 to -5 AC a lot of times. It's really lethal when the pally follows up with blade of justice....

[@nicholasleishman5297]

@@AlastarTehMaster clumsy's status penalty wouldn't stack with frightened's status penalty.

[@AlastarTehMaster]

@@nicholasleishman5297 I now realise this because of the videos, and I'm happy I did !!
Thanks for the shoutout!

[@georgeharris6851]

Yeah, Intimidate makes for a good 3rd action.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

My players are probably not going to be happy that their DM watched this video - and now knows that piece of forbidden lore!

[@rasleyforde2363]

Damm, with this debuffs now we can shift the battle for a bit

[@LegendaryCMD]

Hey Hey! I hope so.

[@rafaelsiqueira2375]

Curse of Lost Time actually can affect objects like Armor or Shields, giving them the shoddy condition that reduces their effectiveness by -2. So a Hobgoblin General for example, could fail at the Fort. saving throw of Curse of Lost Time (-2 item AC), becoming unconscious (-4 status AC), Clumsy 3 (-3 circ. AC) and if they’re unconscious, they’re unconscious you could feed an elixir (like Bestial Mutagen) for the extra -1 AC. -10 AC.
This would make the Hobgoblin General’s AC go from 25 to 15. Which is brutal, but takes a lot of luck and help from something like 3~4 characters. I’d say it’s worth just to surprise a DM, or to make the Wizard crit with a weapon.

[@LegendaryCMD]

That is brilliant!! And you solved the conundrum for how to get them to drink the elixir. Well done!

[@rafaelsiqueira2375]

@@LegendaryCMD hahaha well it still is a task that needs a lot, but that video gave me the spark to see it done one day. Maybe then, I could see a Wizard using True Strike + Bespell Weapon on a monster with -10 AC and tell a tale about a man with a funny hat absolutely destroying a BBEG with a club.

[@amberrephoenix]

Late to the party here, but thought I'd chime in: forcing an enemy to rage might be in your favor if said enemy is a caster...

[@linus4d1]

Frightened is such a great debuff

[@LegendaryCMD]

Hey! I think I'll do a follow up this weekend and talk about sickened and frightened and summarize debuffing a little. Hope all is good with you. Any hints on what you are working on?

[@freeadvice1695]

Incapacitation trait make a lot of these debuffs… like sleep… kind of hard to use/unreliable.

[@Lionbug]

If you can convince a creature you’re helping it, just enlarge it for an easy -1AC 👌🏻

[@jspsj0]

What about frightened?

[@LegendaryCMD]

Good one! That too.

[@rafaelob]

I guess he's going to make a frightening video next 🤔

[@alienjimmy101]

People keep mentioning frightened but I can see why you didn't cover it. Frightened falls off very quickly once stack a turn and isn't always reliable like the stuff you're covering. Rebuffs that last the whole fight[1min] are way more useful in that you can start to chip away at a big boss while flanking it with your members. I always start my fights with my spellcaster casting slow on the mob. On a failure the mob just gets 2 actions from slow. Such a useful spell. Probably not worth reapplying slow though. Do it once then haste the party or rebuff with other spells. Another great video!

[@LegendaryCMD]

Yeah.. I guess it was a fortuitous oversight on my part. I did frightened separately which, like you pointed out, might make sense. Frightened seems easy to give, affects a lot, but doesnt stick around long enough to be a reliable debuff. Slow is nasty in 2E!!

[@alienjimmy101]

@@LegendaryCMD like unless the party of efficient with trying to apply a fear each turn with demoralize or demoralizing strike. Later on the fears get good on spells 6-7lvl with even the success saves apply fear. Fear can be useful if it's being applied again and again

[@devcrom3]

Status pennus is best pennus.

[@lightblckknight]

1. What is your dungeon program?!
2. Could you force an enemy to drink by pouring it in their mouth? (An action I have seen used in podcasts and streams for friendlies)

[@LegendaryCMD]

I've been experimenting with Unity for a couple weeks now just using free assets and Mixamo characters. It's been fun but I'd like it to look more like a tabletop with a grid for my purposes. Thanks for asking. For the potion, i was wondering about that too. Certainly potions have been used to pour into unconscious people's mouths as an accepted tabletop norm now for some time...and this does seem in some ways similar...but, since there isn't a specific corresponding action (like an athletics maneuver "force drink") it would have to be home brewed or okayed with your DM which might be a tough sell. If the enemy was restrained somehow, I'd say you would be more likely to get your DM to go along with it. Maybe a monk that does a grapple, and a sleeper hold, and pops the cork off a lesser mutagen and glug glug glug. There is a condition, dominated I think, where you control a monster. I was going to look at ways to put that out there...then you could just make them drink it. The idea for a sleep spell and the pour it in their mouth was really solid. I am making a part 2 for debuffing AC this weekend and might include these. Good to hear from you.

[@lightblckknight]

@@LegendaryCMD Making enemies drink elixirs would really be niche. but you are right, definitely something to ask the GM.
i did think of a homebrew action though. Take the Healing bomb and make an equivalent feat that does similar for Mutigens. Unwilling targets have to make a will save. could be combined later with the feat that makes your alchemy product dc's equal to your class dc instead.

[@johngarvey4448]

would healing grenades' work with mutagen?

[@LegendaryCMD]

Healing Bomb only makes elixirs of life. Throwing mutagens would be great though!!