That's good to know about the out of battery safety! I recently discovered that my APC9 hammer could drop while bolt wasn't fully forward and it actually had me a little concerned.
I've gone through thousands of rounds of PMC and consider it one of my go to brands since I've never had an issue. This news came as a surprise! On a side note, I'd love to have a GHM9.
We experienced a similar issue with the APC9. It's on its way to them now to analysis. They did mention that the extractor is made to blow out as a sacrificial part.
I had an issue with the pmc 9mm before that’s why I don’t use it anymore. I do have apc9 pro and I run it with brass,aluminum,steel case ammo zero malfunction great video thanks for the info
Unfortunately, this is something that has been reported by others as well. I don't think B&T is quite up to snuff as some would like to think, then again as we all know, companies rarely are.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, people tend to give companies with higher prices more of a pass for some reason and are extremely tribal when it comes to protecting their favorite brands/purchases. I like B&T and their products I own, I like that they innovate and try new things. However it doesn't exempt them from bad design and issues with products and the company's way of doing things overall. Like their supply chain is horrible, I've heard of multiple people that have weapons in for repair that take months with no communication or weapons that need certain parts that take 6 months to come in from Switzerland. I am hopeful that B&T will continue to improve though, their founder Carl (Karl?) seems very enthusiastic about trying new things and seems to be someone who just enjoys firearms. That's incredibly refreshing vs having a company that is run by a conglomerate that answers to board members and shareholders, or being run by a government that doesn't want armed civilians. Hopefully they can improve designs to make them more robust, bring costs down a bit and improve the supply chain/repair process. In the meantime, however, it's disingenuous for people to pretend that they're perfect with no room to grow as they are currently.
I had the exact same experience. I bought mine preowned so I don’t don’t B&T will send me any parts as I don’t know if the warranty is transferable, would you happen to know anything about that? I did just go ahead and order a new extractor kit for almost $85 w shipping and if this happens again I’ll get rid of it because that’s a design flaw, I’ve owned the MPX, Scorpion and SP5 and never had an issue like this with any of them, went for this B&T because of the alleged quality of the manufacturing, to me this is an unacceptable design flaw that should have been addressed during development. God they were able to help you brother, I reached out to B&T but I’m not an “influencer” so I guess o don’t rate for a call or email back
I've watched over twenty vids over the last few days regarding GHM9, APC9, SP5 reviews and comparisons. Ironically, you're catastrophic failure video is the one that has clinched my decision to buy a GHM9. Hundreds, if not thousands, of circumstances must be tested for before offering a mass produced product to the public - and your event proves they are doing that diligence. They built for over-pressure - runs fine. They "accommodated" under pressure by blowing parts out the ejection port to keep the shooter safe. That demonstrates incredible responsibility, R&D, and "Foreseeable Abuse" (yes, that is a US CPSC thing). They are selling you the firearm. You might be running second-hand trash, or hand-loaded rockets through it. And, I don't think their customer service response to you was unique to you being a You-tuber. I would bet that any customer that approached them with a catastrophic failure of their product would receive the same response. Why? Because every responsible consumer product company that sells product should be investigating every failure of their product to learn from it and make improvements. They obviously are. They will get my purchase. I'm looking forward to it.
Interesting diagnosis, and I wonder if they replicated and documented the failure or the diagnosis is based on mechanical theory. And... Every time I see TH-camr talk about exceptional CS, I can't help but wonder if the CS is so good because they know you are a TH-camr. If you are a Joe Blow, will they be so quick and so personal to you? I wonder.
Yes they are. I'm not a youtuber. Had a problem with my TP9. Called, discussed the problem, sat in the car, drove 25 km to Thun, handed over the gun and clarified the details - bought a few more small things in the shop. After a week phone call from B&T - problem discussed again - solution explained. Do I want to pick up the gun or do you want them to send it to me. I picked them up - a good excuse to go back and buy something in the shop. They counted it as a warranty claim. A fellow shooter had the same experience here in Thun, customer satisfaction is considered advertising that brings in a lot.
Not being a butt, but how do you “lookout” for under pressure rounds, or over pressure rounds for that matter. My experience with over pressure rounds it that they announce themselves after it’s too late. Thank you for another great B&T video. I love the guns but I’ve found their Customer Service is almost 100% unresponsive - I have five different B&T models, I’ve asked for some tech help and parts help. They rarely respond and when they did respond, they did not follow through. It easier buying two of any one example to have access to parts - shouldn’t be that way. Nevertheless, I’ll buy more - they are irresistible.
I will say that I have been lucky with B&T but I know my FFL/SOT dealer has had some issues. As for the pressures, I guess the only way is to spot check boxes and weigh the powder.
TH-camrs that review GHM9/APC9 always use some type of shoulder brace. Can this be used as is effectively as a pistol? Thanks for the help. Merry Christmas too!
To see the original Part 1 of this video, please click here...
th-cam.com/video/J97XvKzhfjw/w-d-xo.html
Love all three of my B&T’s. Unicorns for sure.
They are all amazing and so well built.
I have a 2nd generation I recently purchased, saw this title and was worried. Thanks for the excellent information!
You are very welcome! I am glad it helped.
That's good to know about the out of battery safety! I recently discovered that my APC9 hammer could drop while bolt wasn't fully forward and it actually had me a little concerned.
I just try to get information out there.
I've gone through thousands of rounds of PMC and consider it one of my go to brands since I've never had an issue. This news came as a surprise! On a side note, I'd love to have a GHM9.
Yeah, me too.
It's typically bottom of the barrel for brass cases ammo. Stick with S&B, fiocchi, Speer or federal.
We experienced a similar issue with the APC9. It's on its way to them now to analysis. They did mention that the extractor is made to blow out as a sacrificial part.
They will fix you right up. They were great!
@@thetexasgunvault good to know. The guy I spoke with on the phone was pretty cool.
I had an issue with the pmc 9mm before that’s why I don’t use it anymore. I do have apc9 pro and I run it with brass,aluminum,steel case ammo zero malfunction great video thanks for the info
You are very welcome! After this happened I have been wary of PMC.
This just makes me want one of their newer style subguns even more
Glad I could help! =)
Unfortunately, this is something that has been reported by others as well. I don't think B&T is quite up to snuff as some would like to think, then again as we all know, companies rarely are.
I know they took this very seriously. I do give them credit for that.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, people tend to give companies with higher prices more of a pass for some reason and are extremely tribal when it comes to protecting their favorite brands/purchases. I like B&T and their products I own, I like that they innovate and try new things. However it doesn't exempt them from bad design and issues with products and the company's way of doing things overall.
Like their supply chain is horrible, I've heard of multiple people that have weapons in for repair that take months with no communication or weapons that need certain parts that take 6 months to come in from Switzerland.
I am hopeful that B&T will continue to improve though, their founder Carl (Karl?) seems very enthusiastic about trying new things and seems to be someone who just enjoys firearms. That's incredibly refreshing vs having a company that is run by a conglomerate that answers to board members and shareholders, or being run by a government that doesn't want armed civilians. Hopefully they can improve designs to make them more robust, bring costs down a bit and improve the supply chain/repair process.
In the meantime, however, it's disingenuous for people to pretend that they're perfect with no room to grow as they are currently.
Where’s the brownells video
TH-cam kept taking it down.
I had the exact same experience. I bought mine preowned so I don’t don’t B&T will send me any parts as I don’t know if the warranty is transferable, would you happen to know anything about that?
I did just go ahead and order a new extractor kit for almost $85 w shipping and if this happens again I’ll get rid of it because that’s a design flaw, I’ve owned the MPX, Scorpion and SP5 and never had an issue like this with any of them, went for this B&T because of the alleged quality of the manufacturing, to me this is an unacceptable design flaw that should have been addressed during development. God they were able to help you brother, I reached out to B&T but I’m not an “influencer” so I guess o don’t rate for a call or email back
I would just call them and not even bring up it was pre-owned. They have no way of knowing. But most companies have lifetime warranties.
I've watched over twenty vids over the last few days regarding GHM9, APC9, SP5 reviews and comparisons. Ironically, you're catastrophic failure video is the one that has clinched my decision to buy a GHM9. Hundreds, if not thousands, of circumstances must be tested for before offering a mass produced product to the public - and your event proves they are doing that diligence. They built for over-pressure - runs fine. They "accommodated" under pressure by blowing parts out the ejection port to keep the shooter safe. That demonstrates incredible responsibility, R&D, and "Foreseeable Abuse" (yes, that is a US CPSC thing). They are selling you the firearm. You might be running second-hand trash, or hand-loaded rockets through it. And, I don't think their customer service response to you was unique to you being a You-tuber. I would bet that any customer that approached them with a catastrophic failure of their product would receive the same response. Why? Because every responsible consumer product company that sells product should be investigating every failure of their product to learn from it and make improvements. They obviously are. They will get my purchase. I'm looking forward to it.
I am glad my video helped you! They really are a top notch company!
Interesting diagnosis, and I wonder if they replicated and documented the failure or the diagnosis is based on mechanical theory. And... Every time I see TH-camr talk about exceptional CS, I can't help but wonder if the CS is so good because they know you are a TH-camr. If you are a Joe Blow, will they be so quick and so personal to you? I wonder.
It is a good question to ask.
Yes they are. I'm not a youtuber. Had a problem with my TP9. Called, discussed the problem, sat in the car, drove 25 km to Thun, handed over the gun and clarified the details - bought a few more small things in the shop. After a week phone call from B&T - problem discussed again - solution explained. Do I want to pick up the gun or do you want them to send it to me. I picked them up - a good excuse to go back and buy something in the shop. They counted it as a warranty claim. A fellow shooter had the same experience here in Thun, customer satisfaction is considered advertising that brings in a lot.
Not being a butt, but how do you “lookout” for under pressure rounds, or over pressure rounds for that matter.
My experience with over pressure rounds it that they announce themselves after it’s too late.
Thank you for another great B&T video. I love the guns but I’ve found their Customer Service is almost 100% unresponsive - I have five different B&T models, I’ve asked for some tech help and parts help. They rarely respond and when they did respond, they did not follow through. It easier buying two of any one example to have access to parts - shouldn’t be that way.
Nevertheless, I’ll buy more - they are irresistible.
I will say that I have been lucky with B&T but I know my FFL/SOT dealer has had some issues.
As for the pressures, I guess the only way is to spot check boxes and weigh the powder.
What mount is that? And does it co-witness through the MRO?
I will have to check when I get home. Yes it does co-witness.
Damn, Jason. I was just going to buy me a ghm9 too... should I be worried??
No, they fixed the issue, but other have reported having the same problems.
Since the fix?
Is this a re upload?
Yes it is. After I lost my old channel I am uploading all of my older relevant conent.
@@thetexasgunvault what when did that happen?!?!?!?!? Subbing to thus one I never knew
For the price on those bad boys you’d expect better, that gun had low mileage on it, another solid review sir, we’ll done 👏🏼
Thank you so much! I just want to bring people good information.
Was it an aftermarket part?
A part made for the gun by a company that is not B&T.
@@thetexasgunvault so aftermarket….
ood morning, Jason, we are here watching and taking notes. Cheers
Thank you Andrew!
I wish they would make a quality magazine for this gun, for 50 buck's a mag they shouldnt break or crack like they do.
I hear a lot of people say that, but I have never had an issue with them. However, I do agree they need to make metal ones. I would like to see that.
Hey Eric, the KCI mags are great.
Had the same issue. I was not excited when B&T American speculated on the cause. Not very reassuring.
Me too. But to their credit, they did fix it.
I want to by a ghm9, but with the 'president' issue we have, I feel it will just be seized.
I totally understand that fear.
TH-camrs that review GHM9/APC9 always use some type of shoulder brace. Can this be used as is effectively as a pistol? Thanks for the help. Merry Christmas too!
Yes. If you prefer to use a single point sling it can work that way too like an MP5K.
@@thetexasgunvault does the extra recoil of the GHM9 affect accuracy vs APC9?
Algorithm
Thank you!