Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett- On Death
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2015
- This conversation between Richard Dawkins and Dan Dennett is raw, unedited footage from "Sex, Death and the Meaning of Life", a 3-part Channel Four TV documentary presented by Richard.
At the end, at the request of the Director, Russell Barnes, I read the last lines of Unweaving the Rainbow.
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I was sad to hear of Daniel Dennett's passing. Although I never met the man I am left feeling a loss. He was my teacher, he made me think and he made me smile. I am very grateful to his contributions he made during his lifetime. A great philosopher, a great teacher and a great man! You the man Dan!
240p we meet again!
David W /watch?v=5lfTPTFN94o go to 29:29. This is the higher quality one.
David W My internet is so slow I can only watch videos in 240p without buffer :(
+Majordomo Executus That's like dial-up speed. I feel for ya!
David W
144 in Scottish Highlands.
Narrow band.
The ladies take ages to get undressed.
:)
@@andrewbone6208 that's good, isn't that.
I feel it is a privilege to share this planet with Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett.
Why is it a “privilege?” Your life and theirs is no more important than an earthworm. Be honest. It’s time to face reality. Cut the BS.
Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
RIP Daniel Dennett. Brilliant mind.
Sadly he worked 4 satan. Dennet lied! Then he died. One long ago atheist philosopher was seen burning in HEL in 1500s by an atheist man who died for a few minutes & went there! The philosopher regretted being secular. He said he is "forever alive dying in the flames of hell".... yes, many contradictions are true.
Why R.I.P.?
Daniel Dennett would have probably told you to not even waste the thumb power to even peck out such a eulogy.
He denied that there was a conscious mind and with that allowed him to deny that there was a conscious Creator who could and did create all things.
What is very sad, is that Daniel Dennett will now stand naked and shaking in the presence of Almighty God, not as the benevolent and merciful redeemer of the sinner, but instead as God the Holy Righteous Judge of mankind .
Daniel Dennett will now spend eternity separated away from the God who reached out and offered him repentance and reconciliation through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ as Savior from his sins. For Dennett to have not accepted that offer will be the regret with which his "consciousness" will now and forever be forced to reconcile with for eternity. A sad legacy indeed....
these two men are demonized, attacked, misquoted and vilified by religious apologists. If that doesn't piss you the fuck off, I don't know what you're talking about. They are nothing but wonderful people, curious about the universe, and educators in their own right. And they get death threats. Who's side are YOU on?
Lark Macallan Yes. I have known Richard for many years and he is one of the most kind and generous individuals whom I have ever known. We are all blessed that he also has an amazingly powerful mind.
Lark Macallan More recently, Dawkins at least, is "demonized, attacked, misquoted and vilified" by feminists..... I'm not sure who I take less seriously. Feminists or religious apologists....
Lark Macallan OMG! I am afraid! I'm demonized too!
Olavo Alexandrino ur a demon too?!
Majordomo Executus They do not exist!
I've shared this today as it is very sadly appropriate. We will always have Daniel Dennett's books, talks & interviews, but I will miss hearing his opinions & takes on new ideas & events. A sad loss of a man with a great mind, who has helped us all understand a little more of the great puzzle that is reality. R.I.P. Daniel Dennett, March 28, 1942 - April 19, 2024
He's dead? RIP
He was evil! Aka sinner. Where is he now???!!! Not just 6 feet under!
Hel is real
Atheists say RIP. There is only rip in heaven. Knot in HEL.
My gratitude to Dr. Dawkins. I am one of your followers and have read some of your wonderful books. My greetings and appreciation. Eddie. I love you both. Best of the best.
Love is meaningless. Your life and theirs is meaningless. It’s time for you to face reality. You and they are of no more value than a bacterium. It’s time to cut the BS.
This is the reality you accept. Face it. Cut the BS.
Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
Usually I don't like to talk about death, but this is really nice. "I was dead for billions of years and never suffered the slightest inconvenience" or "Think about the improbability of our existence". Brilliant!
Except that during the last days of mark twain he was freaking out over death so much he started believing in the afterlife
@AAH Replies he means he was dead before he was born
@@RobertEdwinHouse9 he was dead when he was born it is far better to never be born than to be born u don't exist never has never will!
That's scary, but makes the least assumptions, so would logically be most likely.
@@megaunknown400 And it was a completely natural response as self preservation is hardwired into our being. Believing in an afterlife can bring closure to a dying person regardless of whether they believe in a god or not. It has more to do with a coping mechanism than anything spiritual.
stunning hi-def
+Zach Namzoff Well it's not the resolution which matters here, you can just listen and get the full experience.
It is stunning to someone with macular degeneration.
We impressionism now
It’s not about resolution; it’s about evolution.
I met Richard in the Peter Singer's video with him. Thank you for reminding us how marvelous life can be.
Interesting when Dawkins says 'it's astonishingly unlikely that you and I exist, and yet we do.'
Yes, it seems like a bad use of "unlikely".
Big mistake. You are the average observer of what you observe. You are the only observer that could theoretically be seeing this. If you weren't seeing this you wouldn't be making that statement mister dawkins.
@@ImperialGuardsman74 I don't know if it's a BIG mistake, but it does sound weird. To me, his statement sounded almost as if he were admitting that it is possible for God to exist as well; Which he has openly admitted in the past, but qualifies with the statement that it is also possible for Leprechauns and the Tooth Fairy to exist. But one thing we know for sure, is that we do indeed exist. Whether our existence is truly physical, or based upon a software program and holographic projection is a question for another day.
It's no more “astonishingly unlikely” than the specific arrangement of dust particles on a desk or a rock on a given moment of the day. Everything is that way -but we somehow want to atribute more significance to our unlikelihood than the unlikelihood of what we perceive as merely physical arrangements.
@@mr1001nights why
I'm trying hard to hold back tears. I love these men so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
But when you die, you won't even know you had an existence to begin with..
I hope God is true, but all the scientific discoveries makes me worry, that there is no god. And life is the end.
@@HammadKhan-tl6bb If you are open to some well-educated philosophers and scientists who believe in God, you may benefit from reading/watching books/videos by Dr. John Lennox, Dr. William Lane Craig, Dr. Hugh Ross -- just for starters.
I don't really agree with how an understanding of the universe helps remove grief and fear of death. The more beautiful I find something, the harder it is to lose. If we were brought into a terrible universe where no one could come up with a single reason of why it was worth living in, it would be easy to leave it. The more beautiful the universe, the worst death is. Sometimes I think that because our Universe is so beautiful, I would have rather not existed in the first place, because then I wouldn't have to say goodbye to it all forever. It's like a cruel joke, being brought into something so amazing and fascinating, only to leave it after such a short period of time, forever.
a wise man once said "train to let go of everything you fear to lose" 👍
@@adorabasilwinterpock6035 eh
dont be greedy
You suffer from attachment and a negative framing
@@adorabasilwinterpock6035As an atheist, you are hardly in any position to judge “eternal life or reincarnation.
Stick with stuff you understand. Argue with other atheists. Refute the Bible. Complain that believers are idiots. You know how to do that.
You are of no more importance than a bacterium. This is the reality you accept. Cut the BS.
It’s time for you to accept what you choose.
Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
I usually agree with everything Richard Dawkins says, but I have a problem with telling people to "stop moaning" if they're dying or fearing death. It seems a bit patronizing, especially from someone who has had the good fortune, genetics and healthfulness to have lived to age 74. "Stop moaning and be glad to have lived at all" is awfully arrogant for a successful senior citizen to tell a 17 year old on their deathbed.
+CptSchmidt I guess you didn't listen correctly. He was referring to people who claim they are bored not people who have extreme suffering.
Michael Exner-Kittridge No, I didn't. I heard exactly what he said. After he's finished talking about people complaining about boredom, he goes back to to talking about death (the subject and purpose of the video). At 2:16 he says to people afflicted with boredom, "So, stop winging," then adds, "and the same thing: when people bemoan their lot, or, indeed, bemoan the fact that life is going to come to an end. You're lucky to have had anything at all is what I feel like saying to them. Stop moaning."
CptSchmidt Ok, you're right. It was me that read your statement wrong. I thought you implied he was speaking about people that are suffering at death, which you didn't.
But still, your original comment makes it out as though he would say "stop moaning" on a person's death bed, which clearly he would not as he's not a sadist. He would say that to someone in decent health in first world countries bemoaning that they will die eventually. This logic follows with the point of the video.
CptSchmidt I agree, it came across somewhat arrogant, I'm an atheist, and even I see that. It's natural that we want to live longer, or forever in some shortsighted cases. He could have been more smooth in getting that point across. "Stop moaning"< Really Richard? Have some humanity. :) He's a smart guy though, can't fault his contribution to human knowledge and learning.
Yeah you're right. Sometimes he does have a tendency of sounding arrogant. I've heard other reasonable people criticize him for that too. Some people sometimes do sound arrogant even though they may not really mean it. I'm sure that has happened to me quite a few times ;)
It is truly a privilege to exist...
but to exist in this era among countless others...
an era where collective knowledge from the greatest minds are at the disposal of our fingertips...
being able to hear, to understand, and to process...
the universal language that is English...
to learn, to grow, and to appreciate...
our very existence...
we appreciate the teachings from the two of four horsemen featured in this video...
RIP Christopher Hitchens...
a privilege to learn from Professor Dawkins...
may you and Dan Dennett stay healthy and content.
You dont exist
What model potato was this recorded with?
Maris Piper
this is beautiful
Two great minds scraping what positivity they can from a belief that offers precious little comfort in the face of death.
We are not here by chance, and we were not made for oblivion.
Blessings to you both ❤🙏
Daniel Dennett died today. 😢. He was a wonderful influence for me. Maybe he lives on in the ones he influenced, like me.
I’ll miss him nonetheless.
RIP great mind.
I lost my dad a couple of months ago, and watching this brought a tear to my eye. Less than a minute later, my doorbell rang - it was Jehova's Witnesses!
I cant believe all the negativity this video has attracted! Much Love All!
***** The Religious tend to dislike Dawkins.
Religious people gives it dislikes before they watch the video.
I also never met Daniel Dennett but came to know him through his books, and now the internet. He was one of the Great Ones and I was very sad to hear of his passing......but what a life he lived!
its sad knowing how few people truly understand this.
PS, i can say im bored sometimes because sometimes ill be almost nodding off asleep and then what seems like a lightning bolt of pure dread hits me. my heart rate speeds up and i feel like i am about to die. but it is just the fear of unconsciousness itself, eternal sleep.
AWESOME VIDEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think these two intellectuals are somewhat to optimistic about the existence of life. Perhaps some philosophy by Arthur Schopenhauer is needed...
"Our existence is based solely on the ever-fleeting present. Essentially, therefore, it has to take the form of continual motion without there ever being any possibility of our finding the rest after which we are always striving. It is the same as a man running downhill, who falls if he tries to stop, and it is only by his continuing to run on that he keeps on his legs; it is like a pole balanced on one’s finger-tips, or like a planet that would fall into its sun as soon as it stopped hurrying onwards. Hence unrest is the type of existence.
In a world like this, where there is no kind of stability, no possibility of anything lasting, but where everything is thrown into a restless whirlpool of change, where everything hurries on, flies, and is maintained in the balance by a continual advancing and moving, it is impossible to imagine happiness. It cannot dwell where, as Plato says, continual Becoming and never Being is all that takes place. First of all, no man is happy; he strives his whole life long after imaginary happiness, which he seldom attains, and if he does, then it is only to be disillusioned; and as a rule he is shipwrecked in the end and enters the harbour dismasted. Then it is all the same whether he has been happy or unhappy in a life which was made up of a merely ever-changing present and is now at an end."
Thank you.
Shane Woodbury
I do enjoy a gloomy quote.
But so long as the illusion of free-will holds, we should endeavour towards pleasure, shy of satiety.
slm129 ...but it would be much nicer if you did ;-)
slm129, the study of pessimism is simply just a philosophy or a scholarly discipline. I've never been suicidal. I just don't think life is a "gift" and I'm not convinced that life is always a net positive. I mean yes, on a personal note I do try and enjoy my life. I've been married for almost ten years. I enjoy music, movies, art, food, wine, beer, and weed. But none of that changes the fact that we had no choice in getting here and we have no choice in dying or not. I call that a fix, not a gift. And then there's the fact that the majority of living things on this planet have to brutally feed off of one another in order survive. Then you have the climate, it's too hot, too cold, too dry, too wet ....I mean it's hardly ever just right or safe for life. I mean what's my purpose in life? To try and survive capitalism?
Shane Woodbury
Determinism _is_ a nihilistic bitch...
-
But we are all a product of the stars, consuming the energy of our nearest star...
We eat the animals, who eat the bugs, who eat the plants, who feed off the sun.
The stars are literally eating the stars. Energy is burning energy. Entropy must increase.
-
Eat bacon.
What's the title of the poetry? Thanks
Richard,
It would be very interesting to see you have a conversation with Aubrey de Grey about death.
I have no problem with the idea of being dead forever, just as I never worried about the billions of years I wasn't alive.
And, to tell you the truth, I don't think that life is such a wonderful thing. Perhaps I felt something like this two or three times when I was a child, but since becoming an adult I have found life to be monotonous, tiring and repetitive. Mainly because "it's impossible to be happy alone" and I don't like to depend on anyone. I learned very early on that people lie pretty much all the time (myself included) and, for some unfortunate circumstance, I hate lying. This took away my taste of living under the same roof with other human beings. Animals are the only company that never tires, bores or disappoints me.
That said, the only thing that terrifies me is the DYING PROCESS: a slow, painful death is my only nightmare. A quick and painless death would be the greatest gift of all.
It will be interesting when your deceased relatives appear to you as you approach death. Will you turn them away?
Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
How to not be afraid of death? Whenever I heard about someone that died in a horrible accident I'm afraid to die with suffering like them. And how you accept that there will be nothing after you die? How you accept that you will be nothing? help me
I have no problem with the idea of being dead forever, just as I never worried about the billions of years I wasn't alive.
The only thing that terrifies me is the DYING PROCESS: a slow, painful death is my only nightmare. A quick and painless death would be the greatest gift of all.
Beautiful
- presented by 2003 Logitech WebCam Productions
future is calling here. they are still the standart!
If people can treasure life as these two, there would be more peace and love in this world
what book is richard dawkins reading from?
BEST VIDEO ON TH-cam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The ideas about the billions of years we weren't alive shared from 2:33 onwards between the two resonate with me. I had the same epiphany years ago.
"Stop moaning". Peak British.
Death still scares the shit out of me. I don't think people truly know the fear until they get put in the situation of having to think about eternal oblivion because they know it's coming... Terminal people know that fear.
Why would you fear death? There is life after death Bro. The Universe didn't just pop into existence. So, there is a creator and that creator has created a place where you will be able to live eternally.
Lee Bride not a single person knows what happens after we die. The “it’s just like before you were born” statement is just a theory
No point fearing death when it is nothing. You won't be aware of your death. Just like how you weren't aware of sleeping between dreams. Timeless without space or consciousness.
Anyone who knows history knows humans invent gods all the time. Because most people cannot accept death and prefer to fool themselves that they will live on indefinitely
@@Maidaseu You can believe in that, Mr. Martin, but trust me you will regret it, mate. Have a nice day & May Allah ( SWT ) guide you. You don't need to reply back, because it would just turn into an argument. One more thing? Atheism leads to Nihilism, so you better find a purpose in life, which is objective. Peace ✌️
@@rafayshakeel4812 I won't regret it because there's no proof any god, and I can't regret anything once I'm dead. Because I'll be dead.
We all make our own purposes. I have many reasons for living. They don't have anything to do with religions or gods.
A thought:
If everyone in the universe died and then there was somehow only one life-form born in the entire universe after you ceased to exist - that one new life-form's experience would be the experience that comes after your death because it'd be the only experience there is.
it's great privilege that we are here and can enjoy the beauty of our universe and it becomes more beautiful if we know that there is no after life.
And you can prove that there is no afterlife ?
Which pixel is Richard Dawkins?
If the visuals were better how would the message have been improved ?
@@pooddescrewch8718 no, but I would still have my eyesight.
@@220volt74 Lol how did you read my response ?
@@pooddescrewch8718 How? I got an email notification.
@@220volt74 in Braille ?
Thank you Daniel. You did good while you were here.
Yo Dawkins, keep postin up the new videos ma nigga! U da man
Was this filmed on a potato? Why is it 240p
In Japan it can be the opposite. Fear of being alive and for some it is more honorable to visit death than to continue being alive. Justified suicide, keeping your inconveniences out of the way of others.
I am someone who doesn't really sit well with the whole "the odds on you being here are phenomenal" approach. You are alive and always would have been. It's impossible to look at it from somewhere where you weren't born. It's hard to put this into words really
No, YOU yourself did not have to be born. If your parents conceived a child an hour later than you were conceived, you may very well not exist but some other person. YOU have consciousness because YOU were born. The idea that you would have your consciousness regardless of who was born needs to be abandoned. There are billions of sperm that go after the egg any given day, and only a few have the possibility to make it. That was YOU
Yes, obviously ME as I am today with all my personality traits, family and my appearance etc wouldn't be the same, but my pure consciousness from birth would have been. I share the theory that we are all essentially one being just stemmed into billions of life forms. We are the universe experiencing itself. The inner voice in your head is the same as mine, just obviously different because of external surroundings that effect our lives.
wilson0213
Consciousness being a medium for the Universe to experience itself, I can buy that. But the idea of a sentient consciousness connected to another, billions, would completely undermine the very idea of free will, that I can't buy, philosophically.
lordkibagami I think you are misunderstanding me, or I'm simply wording it wrong. We are all individual and and different, but that's only because of what has happened in our lives. "Me" is just the current body I am in. When I die, I will just be "in" the next person as I always have been. Obviously I will have no memory of the old self as I am dead a long with all my memories, ambitions etc. It's so hard trying to fully explain it.
Back to my original comment, I merely mean that there is no sperm out there thinking "Damn I wish I made it first so I can be alive.." we are only even capable of knowing we are "rare" because we are alive. It's impossible not to be from a conscious stand point. You can't "experience" not being alive
wilson0213
So..reincarnation? It's a nice idea, fits well with the whole balanced Ying/Yang universe, conservation of energy type thing.
RIP Daniel Dennett 🕊️
I'm not afraid to die anymore. It sounds like peace for a while from this crazy first heaven
Professor Dan died today 😭
Was this recorded with a Bible?
I would say this about Dawkins's reflection on dying: What seems so logical about becoming rotten when we die is not so logical within a dimension higher than that Dawkin thinks he exists in. In a few words, suppose that we exist as excitations of an existential field (as the fields of quantum physics, something beyond a quantum gravitational field) so that dying in that dimension is very different from dying in the poor and limited dimension we believe we live in. I do believe we must rely on something beyond crude matter!
Please, improve video quality.
fuck!I'm jealous that i don't know English too good,to clearly understand the great conversations between the great people like this.
Is this the Dennett who wrote his theory of intentional systems
We were travelling in the desert and suddenly we found a nice big house
which has many floors and wonderful garden and many animals. We
entered this house but no one was inside. We found that house was
containing all utilities such as water, electricity, light, food,...etc everything
was well organized and well prepared. We were divided into two groups:
1- Some of us started to think and say of course this nice house exist
because of the Mother Nature and there is no one built this house!! Or
maybe the trees exploded and formed this wonderful house. Anyway this
house is here just by luck!
2- Others said that of course this house was built by a very clever architect
or designer who organized and designed this wonderful house in this
beautiful way and he should built this house for reasons.
The second group started to look around the house, then they found a
mailing box. They opened it and found a letter. when they opened the
letter, they found someone who claimed that he is the owner of this house
and he knows everything on it and he says in this letter that each visitor will
stay for a certain period of time and then he will be enforced to go out and
continue his/her trip with no return back to this house. but u have to keep in
mind that if you want to utilize all of the facilities on my house and spend
good time there and when you go out to continue your trip, then u have to
follow some easy instructions. And if you stuck in any trouble just tell me.
(But why? the second group asked :) ) Because everyone will leave my
house sooner or later, he will be accounted for all what he did in the house.
the visitors who followed my instructions will get the real happiness in this
house and when they went out and continue their trip they will gathered
what all they need to continue their trip and they be rewarded a lot, the
owner said.
Actually, the first group who said this house was built by luck, they started
to do many things in this house. They were feeling that there is big lack in
their spirits and they don't know why, but they spent their time anyway until
their time finished.
Now, if I pick up two persons from the two groups. Both of them spent their
entire life making shoes, then which one you will consider good and
succeed in their stay at this house?? The one who don't know why he is in
this house or the other one who knows exactly every step in his journey in
the house and when he leave the house and gathered what he need when
he go out from this house??
Let me introduce to u the heroes of this story:
1- The house is the universe and each person's life on it.
3- The letter is the Quran (before Quran it was the bible and Towra ) (this
statement needs more explanation )
4- The owner of the house: Allah, the creator of the universe
5- The second group are the believers or the right followers of prophets
6- The first group are more than half of the people on the earth now.
When it comes to death, I find that having faith in an afterlife (as I did up to the age of about 5) serves as a hindrance in accepting loss. I think that believing in an afterlife causes people to deny that their loved ones are truly gone meaning that they will never get over the death. Understanding that the most probable result of death is the decay of the body rather than ascension to heaven allows people to know that the deceased individual has gone forever. Admittedly, at times it would be easier to just use the easy answer of "they are in a better place", or "when I die I will see them again" but it is damaging in the long term. It causes people to base their lives on superstition and false hope. It's like refusing an education and a career on the basis that you could win the lottery. It's just not worth the risk as the chance for reward is so slim.
I'd rather die than live forever
Daniel Dennett finally got to meet Emanuel Swedenborg to get his real education
When curiosity and wonder on the mystery of existence come under attack by ANY ideology, this species has no hope left. These two are great inspirations for me. Thanks for the upload.
Oh, and fuck the trolls. Don't even respond and feed the fire of their ignorance and need for conflict.
There is no doubt that consciousness is one of evolution's remarkable gifts. I find that glib statement comes even more to life when I realize that I am experiencing some of this consciousness. And I fully agree with Richard that before I was conceived everything was fine since for me it wasn't. After my time passes everything will also be fine since for me it will not be. Not a big deal. But here we are and it is up to us to make our lives and the lives of others as positive as possible. Here again we can set the switch between appreciation or despair. My best to Dan and thanks for what both he and Richard have done to raise my own consciousness.
Wow, I never thought that Atheism is so close to Hinduism and Buddhism, and also Kabbalist Judaism. And like what Osho teaches. Incredible.
How is Atheism close to what the man who committed the first modern day bioterrorism act in the United States of America have in common?
This is a difference between an American and a European looking at the vastness of the cosmos. An American sees how big and uncaring the universe is and feels small and insignificant, while a European looks at it and feels special to be one of its only parts capable of reason and wonder.
I think that this difference is largely cultural, though I can't find exactly what.
I seem to find myself viewing this video regularly. Being able to see the magnificence of even existing, as my recently passed love said, wow, just wow. These guys always bring me back to thinking again.
His cider is the best I've ever had
THIS "IM LUCKY TO BE BORN" SHIT HAS TO STOP. I WAS THE STRONGEST OUT THE PATCH, I HAD MAD NIGGAS ON MY TAIL, BUGGING ME OUT, BUT I STOOD MY GROUND AND ELEVATED TO THE HIGHER LIGHT.
FUCK WITH ME
mic9check thank you
mic9check lol.
It was actually a group effort to penetrate the egg, you just got their at the right time
What?
I still can't wrap my head around that the odds of us being here is like a tornado that blows through an old junk yard and out comes a fully built flying Boeing 707. These are unfathomable odds.
I don't see how musings about the unlikelihood and beauty of my current existence can be consoling when, lying on my death-bed, it's the immediate threat of the end of that very same existence that disturbs me in the first place. Whether I'm the American president, a biologist from England, or a witch doctor from Haiti -- all my skills, experiences, and memories will disappear with me. And since one day all mankind will go extinct it's also pointless to foster the hope to live on in ones descendants. All human achievements and scientific discoveries will be lost. Life is meaningless. Unless, of course, there really is a divine Logos in whom we live, move, and have our being.
TimotheosCauvin “Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist.”
― Epicurus
Mirander Black Fair enough. Yet it obviously does concern at least some of us *while* we are here. That's why even atheists produce vids on how to cope with death. Of course, from the point of view after death -- may it be from eternal life or from nonexistence (which, as Epicurus rightly says, would imply that there is no point of view at all) -- all our current concerns, worries, and thoughts are irrelevant.
In 1978, there was a mathematician from Dartmouth who discovered that there is no God . 60 Minutes ran a special 1 hour segment on it . I can't remember his name . Do any of you? I need this and any other information on this man you can supply me with. I graduate in December and I need this information for Master's thesis. Thanks in advance.
It is a Huge privilege to be here. And Spirit, Eternity, Consciousness exists and that is it really, after all this Life, things go on.....and if you live a creative life that is quite something too.
So intense.
Gostaria de saber se esse otimismo abstrato em relação à civilização ocidental continua dentro da "caixa" onde guardamos nossas ilusões ou se se já foram transferidas para a "bolha" das nossas auto ilusões.
That beard is so fluffy☺
Great footage, but cannot help but feel like they are both preaching to the choir to each other.
Peace and good health to these two great educators.
Dawkins is reading from his own book, Unweaving the Rainbow, at the end. It strikes me as being similar to the ending of Olaf Stapledon's Star Maker.
i have lost my slavish admiration for dawkins 'though i continue to support his foundation. his approach or affect does not endear him to a schlub like me. i do not have a legacy of books or a family but i still don't have trouble with the notion that death means lights out. i would not want this life to go on forever. even if the species makes it for 100 years or so (which i don't think it will), the dawkins/dennett/ legacy will not go beyond that so it's not like their existence is more significant than mine. we are all subatomic specs in the universe. man is another animal BUT that doesn't mean i can't enjoy each day to its fullest by doing the things that nurture me and my community.
And now Daniel can experience It himself
I don't buy the whole "I didn't care about before when I was alive"
Its like saying "You don't care about the time before you had this car, why should you care now that is been taken away? "
TGGeko No, those are not equatable. Before birth and after death you don't feel anything, you don't perceive anything, can't MISS anything - you just "aren't". If you lose your car, you still live to "miss" the car, to feel how it is being without the car.
I agree in so far that this reasoning does not take away my bad feeling about the fact that I'll stop existing at some time in the future (although it does ease it a bit), but that's not because we fear what comes after death, because in all likelihood there is nothing - it's not the fear of "having lost something", It is the fact that we can't comprehend what it means to "not exist" that makes us fear death and not see the beauty of having the privilege to live in the first place - it's not equatable to your car-example.
It's not a matter of being upset because something has been taken away, it's a matter of "there were no unpleasantries before I was alive, therefore when I am dead there won't be any unpleasantries as well." You cannot have the ability to be upset that something has passed like the car you mentioned because you are dead.
TGGeko You're right, it's a BS 'argument'. The simple truth is that there's nothing positive about aging and death. Death is a thief, it robs you of your future and all the fun / pleasant / interesting etc. things you could have experienced. It is also a tyrant, as it obliterates freedom of choice. Death is something to be resisted with reason, science & technology, not trivialized or even glorified. People like Richard Dawkins and Dan Dennett don't have anything useful to say on this topic; they're just a bunch of deathist humanists, too old and conservative to embrace transhumanism.
Parapon3ra Transhumanism? Hahahaha!
TGGeko What's so funny about wanting to overcome the limits of the human condition with reason, science & technology? Isn't that what all rational people should be doing? Isn't that the fucking essence of humanity?
Lost, and whistling loudly in the dark.
A question I have been thinking about a lot recently is this: If materialism is true, we basically just are our neurological patterns, but we could imagine googolplexes of copies of us, each one with its own mind (its experiences wouldn't be ours), so how come none of the minds of those copies exists instead of me?
English is my second language, so I apologize if I expressed myself in a weird way.
Sebastian Lundh They DO exist, in your mind. The one thing we are least likely to understand is the mode that we understand. It's a bit like asking the question, a question.
Sebastian Lundh In an alternate reality, there is many other versions of you.
***** Fuck them, if they don't understand the rhetorical use of "you" then their confusion belongs to them .
Why concern yourself with those confused by their own ignorance? You should not reduce your level, but hope that the confused will bring their level up to yours.
You are not responsible for the ignorance of others.*****
It seemed to me that you were the only one who cared. I saw no other reference. To educate the confused is not to confuse them. If, and when, a person complains of confusion, they may be instructed then. I hope this is reaching you properly, this box is chopping the hell out of what I am writing, just as it is forcing my reply to be above your title.*****
For some, life is an act less preferable to death. For others, life is a gift which must not be squandered. What I think, is that the realities of existence are subjective, personal, common only to the beholder. Perhaps it is true that a majority of the living cannot see the beauty, the sheer dumb luck of their own existence, but for some we must acknowledge a difference in view. Suffering is not always a transient, temporary period, it can be permanent, unendurable. So let us not forget that life is both the beauty and the beast.
Is Dennett 7ft tall or something? He towers over Dawkins.
That look Dawkins gave at the end...
RIP Dan Dennett.
You are surrendering to death, that doesnt have to be a bad thing, but it isnt a good thing either. I prefer to stay a live for a while.
StalkingHawk I've been dead for billions of years
Majordomo Executus We must look into the future and not grieve over the past.
StalkingHawk Ayyyee
+Majordomo Executus To be dead means to have ceased living - like a dead battery, or a dead parrot. A meaningless statement when applied to Christians who believe they were brought into existence at sentient birth.
ben drogan They are just poor scammed people. Thats what indoctrination does to you.
I don't understand how they square the "you're lucky to be alive" idea with the quote from Mark Twain moments later: "I was dead for billions and billions of years before I was alive and never suffered the slightest inconvenience".
The former idea seems to suggest that inanimate matter is elevated to a privileged or "better" position when it possesses consciousness, and since the odds against the particular matter that makes up "me" becoming conscious is so high, I am somehow "lucky". But then the latter idea from Mark Twain suggests that "not alive" things don't care that they're not alive. So how is being alive better than not being alive? How am I "lucky"? It's as if they think that I was in some worst, less desirable state before I was born, and now I'm in a better, more desirable state. And I should be considered "lucky" because the dice roll to see who gets to be "alive" came up snake eyes and "I" won something.
I really have no idea what they're talking about when they say I should feel "lucky"...
maniac2040
Given the choice of a brief existence or none at all, which would you choose?
I'm aware that if you don't exist you can't choose, it's more a hypothetical question
Mark Douglas Your second line basically proves my point.
maniac2040
I agree of course, but now you're here do you value your existence in preference to non existence?
Mark Douglas I don't think that question is valid. If you asked me would I prefer to be rich or poor, I could answer that. Because I'd be comparing one existential state to another. I have some idea of what it might be like to be rich and what it might be like to be poor, and given that idea I can have a preference for one or the other. However, there is nothing that it is "like" to not exist. You simply aren't. In short, I can't make any value judgements on "not existing". How I'd "feel" while not existing is undefined.
To quote Richard Dawkins, "...the mere fact that you can frame a question in the English language doesn't mean that it's entitled to an answer."
maniac2040
"I don't think that question is valid."
An easy statement to make when you know that in answering the question when I pose it, nothing will change for you, i.e. you will continue to be in a state of existence regardless of how you answer the question.
However.
If you knew your state of existence depended on your answer, i.e unless you specifically chose to prefer to exist you would immediately cease to exist, would you still choose the "invalid question" option given it would cause you to cease to exist?
I wouldn't.
Therefore I suggest, based on what I would do myself in a situation where my existence depended on my answer, that you're not being entirely honest about your position regarding existence/non existence.
"If you asked me would I prefer to be rich or poor, I could answer that. Because I'd be comparing one existential state to another."
Assuming you haven't experienced both "rich/poor", what's the difference between that and "existence/non existence" You have absolutely no idea about at least one condition.
"I have some idea of what it might be like to be rich and what it might be like to be poor, and given that idea I can have a preference for one or the other."
Surely then you can have some idea of what it's like not to exist? It's just the opposite of what you're experiencing now.
"However, there is nothing that it is "like" to not exist. You simply aren't. In short,"
This is where it gets interesting, all your previous assertions are based on the premise that you can't know what it's like not to exist, and then you claim to know!!
"I can't make any value judgements on "not existing"
You just did.
"How I'd "feel" while not existing is undefined."
No one asked you how you'd "feel".
"To quote Richard Dawkins, "...the mere fact that you can frame a question in the English language doesn't mean that it's entitled to an answer."
Agreed, but the mere fact that you can frame a statement in the english language doesn't mean that its above question.
The world will miss him, whether it knows it or not
This video more now than anything
I had no idea Daniel Dennett was so tall😮
And yet still very intelligent! Crazy right??
Dennett was 5 10” Dawkins is 5 9”
@@seankinsellasean Incredible!!!
"I´m rather moved by the astounding improbability of my own existence". What does that mean? How can he come to the conclusion that our mere existence is improbable? That´s a deduction rooted not in the scientific method but in faith of a world view. Or am I missing something?
Daressap It is rather improbable that were here. Our universe didn't have to support life and neither did Earth. The fact were alive and able to think on such a deep level is astounding
MarK First the improbable but inevitable creation of earth happened. It took a while but eventually it happened, and it would've happened anyways.
Second life had to come about on earth. I feel as though this was also inevitable, eventually somewhere, life would form.
Third, life had to evolve into human form. This is complete chance and not at all inevitable. Humans are a unique group of animals that will not exist anywhere anytime. Perhaps they'll look like us, think like us, but in terms of their DNA, it will never be like us.
Fourth, you had to be born. The chances of this happening are both astronomically low and finite. Think about all the sperm and all the eggs that could've been from your mom and dad alone. Now think about from their parents, and their parents parents etc. like 200 generations back. Now factor into account the chance that those two, out of all the people on earth would meet. Had just one of your ancestors pulled out, or another egg been chosen, you wouldn't be here.
Mrbigweeknee "First the creation of the earth happened". No, first something happened way before that, before matter space and time existed as we know it. As far as I am aware we don't know why it happened or how probable or improbable it was. As far as I am aware, neither do we know if our existence, at the most basic level of being aware/conscious, is causally connected to this chain of events you describe that led to the arrangement of matter that makes up our bodies and brains.
Life.
Joy, sorrow, hurt, healing, like, dislike, love, hate. Being a human being being human.
Death
None of the above.
3:44 when they ponder over nature even Dennet couldn’t help it
I guess I prefer to look at it the way Christopher Hitchens did-we live on, if not as conscious beings, then by the lasting effects we have on the world.
For Hitchens, it was his work and his children, but we all have something we'll change the world with.
Distracted Globe Productions That's unrealistic to me, as many of us will simple die without doing great things. Like paintings, music or humanitarian acts that remain in the histories. And when our relatives die we will soon be out of all memory.
Its just how life is. We can see the many civilisations behind us who thought they would last forever and leave a impact, and there city's are now dust, there relics in our museums.
Mirander Black Hitchens' (and Harris' as well) whole point was that just by existing, you've made an immutable difference in the world--for Hitchens, just having successfully raised his kids was enough, and Harris would be satisfied with even less.
Every photon that ever reflected off of you is now on a completely different course, and can never return upon its original heading, and all for having encountered you; one day, the atoms of your body shall return to their birthplace, the stars, and perhaps, they shall form new atoms, and maybe even new life. This perspective shows death as nothing more than a change, no different from the changes that lead to your existence in the first place, and the changes which have sustained you this long.
Distracted Globe Productions A wonderful way of looking at death. Nicely put.
+Distracted Globe Productions If death really is the end for each of us then in my opinion what happens after you go is perfectly irrelevant as you won't be there to experience or know about it. The bomb could drop the day after you died and you would be none the wiser. Just as what is currently happening on a undiscovered planet millions of light years away is also irrelevant (to our current concerns) because we are not there to observe it.
While you are alive life is meaningful, when you no long exist there is no self present to be concerned about it.
+Distracted Globe Productions Yeah but as soon as you don't exist any more, the fact that you may have had an effect on the world ceases to have any meaning. The concept is only meaningful to you while you are alive. Catch 22.
Can"t wait to see you again.
why is the video quality so shitty? 240p wtf?
240p shouldn't even exist
I find it a bit funny/odd that at 3:50 DD says, "Hallelujah" ("praise God") & Dawkins repeats it. LOL. Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of DD.
I still would like to live after I die. Any hope? Maybe? Is that reason and science at some point will discover that in fact there is life after death?
I like these ideas. I totally can imagine that you can feel a porpose in that all as an atheist. One doesn't need a religion! It's just not my cup of tee - it's not enough for me.
And also: what would you say to people who are born into existance just to suffer? What's life's purpose for them? Can they appreciate the beauty of the universe and nature? Can they feel happy to be there and see it all? It disturbs me to think that for some poeple life is simply suffering....and that's all. I can't take that in....I NEED the hope that this wasn't everything to stay sane and happy.
What sources of information did Richard Dawkins and his assistants use when studying Leo Tolstoy’s views regarding religion? The fact is that the content and results of the intellectual, philosophical, and spiritual search of Leo Tolstoy are completely misrepresented in the film "Sex, Death and Meaning of Life". I believe that in this particular case the scientist could not correctly approach a subject of study because he restricted himself by using secondary sources of information.
In brief, Tolstoy, as well as R.Dawkins, proposed to abolish the God of Abraham. L.Tolstoy entirely denied religious mysticism (this led to his excommunication in 1901). L.Tolstoy arrived to the idea of a god as a humanistic concept of the unity of all people: "Christianity not as mystical teaching, but rather as new life-understanding".
Taking into account the cross-cultural studies of sociopathy, each society needs the teaching of life-understanding in some form.