Street Track Failures: Episode 20 - West Palm Beach
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มี.ค. 2023
- It's been a few weeks since we last had a street track video. So what a better way to return than with some more 80's/90's IMSA GTP cars, in the Florida sunshine.
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The "double corner count" reminds me of the ovals in North American racing, even the perfectly symmetrical ones where they still count 4 corners in total.
I think that comes from tradition from Indianapolis, which actually has 4 corners
it's america, it just be how it is
@@rosscrashtain I'd add that while they look simple, ovals are very difficult to be fast on, and splitting up the corner allows the driver to split up the entry phase and exit phase, communicate to the team more, and pinpoint events in corners easily.
That does make a lot of sense now looking back on it.
the pile of tires made me laugh so hard i cried
I loved watching these cars in Miami growing up.
Growing up in West Palm, I used to walk around the fairgrounds and imagine how awesome it would have been to see these cars racing around there. I know it wasn't a perfect track, but it would have been so awesome.
Lovely video. Logic tells me it took American oval corner number theory. As you look at almost any nascar oval and say “there’s only 2 corners, how hard can it be!” When it reality it is viewed as 2 corners in the one end. So probably the same logic was used.
Also, street track failures, VALENCIA F1! Please, I thought it was so cool watching them cross a bridge or later that year when in Singapore they crossed 2 bridges in a single lap
I guess that logic is entirely plausible. Valencia will more than likely feature in this series.
Great episode of Street Track Failures!
For me, this series allows me to learn about obscure street tracks and how it failed. Keep up the awesome work.^^
Glad you enjoyed the video! Always good to hear people discovering these tracks through my series. This series has been an education for me as well in that respect.
The double corners being numbered separately makes me think about how oval tracks in the US has 4 corners apparently
That makes a lot of sense now you bring that up.
The GTP category was in the early stages of death by 1991.
Costs were skyrocketing which put all the competitive advantage in the hands of the big factory teams leaving privateers essentially competing to come in sixth behind the big corporate teams like Jaguar, Toyota and Nissan.
That was also the point when porsche began curtailing its involvement as a factory concern in the series and both nissan and jag would leave by the end of the following season because they just couldn't compete with dan gurney's legendary All American Racing Toyota Eagle MK3's which were so dominant that they won every race in the latter half of the '92 season and every race of the 1993 season but for the one they didn't compete in because toyota boycotted the event out of anger at how imsa were screwing them over with bespoke rules that were created too specifically affect their cars in the same way the did too audi to end their dominance of the GTO category in 1990.
Both ford and chevy also gave up on competing in the top level of IMSA around that time instead choosing to throw factory support behind top level GTO teams like Jack Rousch's famous daytona GTO class winning Mustang Cobra's and the equally successful Oldsmobile Cutlasses of Rocketsports and Brassfield Racing.
While event attendance was still doing ok at the time tv viewership was beginning to plummet which led to the calendar being pared back starting in 1992 ,IMSA decided to reduce reliance on temprorary street venues in favour of holding events at permanent circuits in order to keep costs down which is probably the main reason why west palm beach left the scehdule after 1991
That would certainly be plausible for sure, given the reasons you outlined.
@@tydyeracinggaming4742
The ESPN IMSA GTP 1993 season review actually goes into pretty good detail about why GTP finally died in terms of overall costs, lack of factory support, attempts to break toyota's dominance and the prolonged death of the category.
According to one team owner they interviewed who ran a camel lights team (their version of today's LMP2), a lights chassis was $250.000 and the bigger gtp cars were around $350.000 (not including an engine tires and spares).
IMSA tried really hard to sell viewers on the then fourthcomimg World Sportscar ruleset by promising more teams and better racing because a new WSC94 spec car only cost $200.000 (not including spares tires and engines).
They did manage too lure ferrari ford mazda and gm into top level american endurance racing as factory engine suppliers/chassis builders but the category bombed and was replaced by GT1 just three years later.
You can find it here on TH-cam.
Great to see this series return, nice video. In my opinion the second layout is much better. If I'm not mistaken, Indycar used this track as tests for the season. And also if I'm not mistaken it was there that Scott Pruett suffered a very serious accident that left him 1 year out of racing. I don't know how this place is today, if it's abandoned or not. And IndyCar seems to already have its home in Florida, so maybe Formula E or even IMSA could return there. Of course.....if there was a good investment to resume the use of this track.
Glad you enjoyed the video! It would be cool to see this track return, Formula E especially, albeit very unlikely.
A few ideas of tracks not done yet:
- Jingkai (China, A1GP)
- Beijing Olympic (China, Formula E)
- Santiago Parque Forestal (Chile, Formula E)
- Valencia (Spain, F1)
- Vancouver (Canada, CART)
- Dallas (United States, F1)
- Shanghai (China, DTM)
- Detroit (United States, F1)
- Moscow (Russia, Formula E)
- Baku (Azerbaijan, GT Challenge)
Was missing those, always great finds . Keep them coming.
I shall certainly keep this series going for sure (until I've run out of street tracks).
Didn’t even know some of these circuits existed. Love the content, thanks for all the effort you put into it! Really cool.
Thanks for the very kind words, glad you're enjoying the videos!
Ready for your take on the LA Street Race. One of the rare cases of NASCAR-sanctioned cars racing on a street course
That track will more than likely feature in this series in the future.
I mean for 1992, you had Hurricane Andrew that hit South Florida hard, and led at least in part to Ralph Sanchez building Homestead/Miami.
Also, learned of NASCAR having a whole Winston East/West set of street tracks an the whole Left/Right series plan which yes, more material for this series. YOu got quite a few weird tracks to pick from, and if you ever wanted to do a fictional one, you got plenty of one hit wonders from games for an early April episoe. Nascarman did a great overview of the L/R series as an aside too and what went wrong with it
Not sure if I already suggested this track but here's an idea:
The Reno Hilton Street Circuit located in Reno, NV, which hosted the Trans-Am (like half the street circuits in the US) and the SCCA World Challenge (here's the 96' World Challenge event which is the only footage of the track online: th-cam.com/video/IRmywVWGN80/w-d-xo.html )
That track will more than likely feature in this series in the future.
Enjoyed this one as well!
Glad you enjoyed the video!
I have another 2 ideas of streets circuits that could be featured in the future
1. Jingkai Street Circuit (AI GP)
2. Baku World Challenge (GT Series)
You could upload the jingkai one on the date that the chinese GP was suposed to take place and also do the same with the Baku GT track at the date the Azerbaijan GP is taking place
Both tracks will more than likely feature in this series at some point.
Another great episode. I'm glad to see you getting more views and subscribers.
Glad you enjoyed the video! It's mind-blowing to see the level of support this channels getting.
That tire barrier was fine by 80s standards!
If there's something I've learned from this series, is that IMSA loves to make streets circuits at any city posible, but some cities are just not suitable for street circuit, yet, sometimes some racing series force them to exist
Really love this series, keep the good work 🙏🏻
Amazing episode. Anotheer great idea whod be an episode about the old gt3 baku street circuit, maybe when f1 visites baku😁
That track will more than likely feature in this series at some point.
While it looks like an interesting street course, I doubt any series would try to revive it. IMSA has two of its four major races in Florida to begin with (both of which, as well as the Petit Le Mans, sold out both last year and this year), IndyCar would probably rather add a different city to its calendar (Montreal, Vancouver, COTA and Phoenix being all rumoured to be trying to get a date on the calendar) and NASCAR wouldn't be allowed to given that West Palm Beach is within Homestead's exclusion area.
Ah, that is somewhat of an issue on the NASCAR front. If the track was in good condition, then back to back weekends perhaps. Again, highly unlikely, but still.
I had no idea just how many street circuits there were in the US in the 80s. I wonder if that could be one reason that F1s US owners keep signing deals for street circuits
The world: How many street tracks have you lost over the years?
America: Yes.
You should cover the Detroit Grand Prix from the late 80's/early 90's.
That track will more than likely feature in this series at some point.
If I had to guess why the event was shut down, just looking on Google Earth, they built a bunch of new warehouses/buildings right on top of where the circuit once was around 1992-95. And between 1995-99, thought judging but it probably closer to '95, they built a new and quite large amphitheater, and in doing so had to get rid of the turn 4 and 5 section. Maybe that was always in the plan and after the Palm Beach contract ended, they just decided not to renew in favor of the amphitheater.
To go back on this, seems that the amphitheater opened in 1996, so give a couple years for planning, investing and constructing, seems like it could at least be part of the reason
Thanks for researching about this. That would perhaps explain why that is the case.
Love your content, keep it up.
Florida loves its fairgrounds and semipermanent circuits
A lot of our American tracks seem to be about Attrition. They want to lull you into a mistake. Keep your focus and wits about you.
They definitely make these tracks a challenge for sure.
To be fair, Mid-Ohio does the start and finish of the race in different spots for safety reasons. West Palm Beach probably did it for the same reason.
Mid-Ohio does have an actual start/finish straight compared to WPB at least.
More than likely. It's just an interesting quirk of this track I think.
Looks like a great track. I’m curious if it’s failure has anything to do with the construction of Homestead Miami speedway? Seems about the same time and they’re fairly close. That would be my guess anyway
Seems very plausible for sure.
I would love to race the first version of the track in go-karts!
Even touring cars hate tracks like these 😅
Whenever anyone says "double apex", somewhere in the world Herman Tilke goes "nice"
I LOVE YOU TYDYE YOUR THE BEST!!
You mention the fact that the 'start line' and timing point/finishing line are in different places - this is not unusual in Formula E, where the cars frequently line up on a different part of the circuit, then have a "warm up" before reaching the 'start line' which is in a different place to the finish line (I think it may be down to trying to line up the cars in a way that means they can all see the lights).
1) Great video
2) Forgive me if you have heard this before...but what about the IMSA Miami streets from the 80s and 90s?
Glad you enjoyed the video! The IMSA Miami tracks will more than likely feature in this series in the future.
PLEASE do an video of the indycar layout of the são paulo street circuit, i really wanted to know why they stopped the races there given the attendance seemed pretty good
A really bizarre and forgotten circuit! Great video! Any plans to do Meadowlands?
Glad you enjoyed the video! Meadowlands has been requested before, so will more than likely feature in this series.
unfortunately you can't run the 2nd layout as it was any more, since there's buildings in the place of t1 and part of the straight from t6 to t7, plus the tarmac between t3 and t4's been ripped up. still, it wouldn't be the most unviable location for a track nowadays, you've still got the space to put in something decent.
i'll also throw in a suggestion for the changwon street circuit in korea, which was used for international f3 racing in the early 00's
Ah ok, thanks for saying. That track may feature in this series at some point.
The first track has so many similarities to Long Beach
You should do a video on why Street Tracks succeeded. Like why did Long Beach succeed but other tracks didn’t
Suggestion, Washington D.C. street track that was built in a supermall parking lot. Early 2000s American Le Mans series.
That was the first episode of the series I believe
Next video Niagara Falls New York 1988 North America just has a boatload of street circuits
That track will more than likely feature in this series.
Norisring anybody ? That seems to have lasted well with a similar rage of vehicles - G7, G5, DTM class 1, Supertouring and GT.
Mid Ohio drives me nuts not starting at the start/finish.... Just move the whole pit complex and have it all together
Well... while we are on the topic of Long Beach. What about Long Beach FE Track?
That track may feature in an honourable mentions video.
Once again I wish for Halifax
That track will more than likely feature in this series.
What about the German `Norisring´? I think its another weird example of a ´Racetrack´
But the Norisring hasn’t been a failure as its still used today
I have to run on it
I think it may have had something to do with money or lack thereof between the city and promoter of the race.
Doesn't Tamiami Park count as a street course? It was the one that hosted the season finale/all star race for Indycar, I'm not sure if it was a failure or not though.
I mean, given what happened in 1992 in Florida, it wouldn't have, likely hosted the event in 92 and onwards either way though. Ah Belle Isle's dogleg start/finish line. I loved blasting aroun there in ICR". Also isn't West Palm Beach the only track where th Corvette GTP got its lone win?
Tamiami is one of three tracks I managed to see within a week a few years back, Marlins Park for the Race of Champions being the first, then Tamiami then finally Daytona for the 24. Certainly a variety of venues!
That track does count for this series and has been requested before.
Where’s Valencia?
Do the valancia street circuit in spain it race formule 1 form 2008 - 2012
That track will more than likely feature in this series.
CAN YOU PLEASE CHECK THE LA STADIUM STREET CIRCUIT PLEASE!?
That track may feature in this series at some point.
Why don’t you begin a series where you look at street circuits that was a great success?
If people would like to see it, then I will certainly look into doing it.
Do street track failures Dallas F1/Trans Am.
That track will more than likely feature in this series.
"After Sebring we look at another street track in florida"
Sebring isn't a street track tho?