CAT Mechanic working on an International. Are Navistars and Internationals Junk?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2021
- In this video we are working on an International Maxxforce engine and then discussing some news about Navistar and International. AdeptApe@yahoo.com on PayPal and for questions.
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Thanks for watching! The DT466 and 7.3 Powerstroke were good engines by the way, just not a fan of their later stuff. You can help the channel by clicking on the Amazon Affiliate links: Milwaukee 1/2 Drive Impact w/batteries: amzn.to/3chlAwB
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Can't beat a 7.3L👍
My 'Binder is a '98 4700 with a Vulcan 896 wrecker bed. It sees real MD action daily mostly pulling around much younger descendents 😂 Knock on wood but I service it, fuel it & that's it. I never have to touch it, just twist the key & go. You're forgiven 😁
It all started going downhill with the discontinuation of the 4700 & all series using that cab & electrical architecture. Those were probably some of the best class 6 trucks ever built, simple, cheap & easy to repair. But like everything else, when they started trying to make big trucks behave & feel like cars, that's when the proverbial shit hit the fan, here's looking at you Freightliner 🙄😒 let's face it they all suck nowadays. Assuming I can get parts or it's not forced off the road by some Commiefornia mandate, I'll never sell mine. It's sad because Intl was once one of the best.
Thank u for saying good things about the dt466 and t444
@@SOU6900 or the 7.6
Oh no! here come the powerjoke fanbois!!
As a CM in the SeaBees I can tell you 2 things. 1) The MaxPro is the WORST MRAP variant we have! 2) Good news! Taliban now owns most of our fleet! Hahaha! Mental picture of Taliban working on a MRAP PCU or any other system on the vehicle!
Lol
Not funny the Chinese commie party will bring in their techs and reverse engineer the other tech. 🐒
Except for the reverse engineering of the rest of the tech, I'm glad they got the bad ones.
Good to know. Now, what about the helicopters and other equipment hastily left in Afghanistan?
@@Inspironator so, trust me when I tell you we ALL have a "Destruction plan" in place for COMSEC equipment. If a radio is even close to being compromised we zero it out. It's like pouring acid on the hard drive. So any equipment left there is either useless or there on purpose to track it's location via GPS. We're not stupid!!!!!!!
All engineers should train with the people who work on their equipment.
One big plus working for Helmerich&Payne independent drilling contractor. They have the best iron in the oilfield for a reason. They have an entire floor in their downtown Tulsa high rise building dedicated to their engineering teams. They do not purchase rig packages from NOV or any other. They build every drilling rig in house, even drawworks and top drives. Their engineering team works closely with their field service technicians to develop the most dependable and redundant machinery in the energy sector. It was a growing experience working there.
I have the same dream my man... If only...
I agree 100% on the engineers especially on newer vehicles.they can't hit their ass with both hands. they think they are really brite because they wasted as much as six years in college. I'm so sick of having to work on their piss poor design's. they should have to work on the crap they design. I'm sure I will get plenty of blowback from this reply. but I don't give a flying rats ass. I'll tell them right now to kiss my ass. I ain't the one that designed that crap.
Far too arrogant to even consider listening to a mere mechanic
I think truck manufacturers listen quite a lot to mechanics. That's why they all still use front straight axles on leaf springs. Every chassis engineer knows that combination rides and handles like a dishwasher tumbling down the side of Mt Vesuvius, but with 5 moving parts, 2 of which only move because they bend, it's extremely maintenance friendly. Compared to the absolute state of contraptionry under the hood of a modern pickup, modern semis are shockingly maintainable. I think diesel mechanics could do a stint as car techs to appreciate just how good they have it. "BRO, WHO INVENTED MINIVANS?!"
When I worked at the County Fleet Services department, we had mostly International plow & dump trucks. This is because they are usually the lowest price truck available on the State bid process.
You get what you pay for.
That’s how it goes when it comes to fire trucks. The volunteer Dept I was on we had an 05 4400, nothing but issues. The paid department I’m currently on, we have a 2015 4400, was constantly having issues and usually it was either a wiring issue or a motor issue. Prior to ordering the truck in 2014 I said, get a different chassis. Do not get an international, but because it was cheaper…….. The rest is history.
Ford has had problems with their police cars after the Crown Victorias were discontinued. The Explorer and Taurus had nothing but problems.
@@atx-cvpi_99 strange, I haven’t heard anything other than the water pumps at exactly 100k. Well, that and unless you got the ecoboost, Lordy lord are they slow. The ecoboost is wicked fast.
A old man said they had a Fleetstar and a later White 9000 with the Autocar can, said both were identical mechanicaly,but he liked the 9000 a lot better, a old IH truck salesman said "White had us beat on everything but price"
They're also one of the easiest to work on. Working on a freightliner is a wiring nightmare
I was the mechanic for a whole fleet of DT 466’s the old or 1st generations were very reliable when they changed to 2nd generations things went downhill.
I need your help lol
That's true, they had really bad drive wire issue that was undiagnosable. on the later generation engines.
Those were nice and pretty easy to fix
@@musicauthority7828 i need your help t3800
The first 10 years of my driving career I drove International 4900 beverage trucks with the DT466 engine. They weren't that fast but you couldn't kill them, they just ran.
When I still had my truck and talked to dealers they wouldn’t even take those trucks in. I had Western Star and Freightliner trucks. I had my share of issues with those, but nothing like what people went through with the International trucks.
I know this video is a year old but, There some engines out there that are icons for reliability, I loved the 855 Cummins and the B, C, & E model Cat engines. When engine manufacturers were forced to put emissions on their engines they all had issues, some more than others, the advanced EGR was what killed the early Maxxforce engines (it was a disaster, they were trying to burn too much exhaust gas in an attempt to avoid DEF as a sales pitch), International wasn't alone in engine issues after 2011, I had a customer who had a fleet of Volvo's and he wanted to burn that fleet to the ground, which surprised me. The new A26 seems to be a much better engine but I've seen a few broken piston rods, other than that (yes I know laugh it up Yuk Yuk!) large fleets seem to be happy with them. Totally agree with you on the DT466, short of running it out of coolant or oil you couldn't kill it the 6.9, 7.3 and 7.3 powerstroke were great engines as well.
Actually the reasons why companies like John deere, Navistar, dodge, kubota, etc etc all tried to cope and make excuses as why they wouldn't get onto the scr bandwagon is because fiat still patented the system up until 2014 or so when it expired, meaning that they were doing so to avoid paying royalties and thus trying to undercut the competition by offering junk products they knew wouldn't work
I work at a international dealership, ya we had a number of engines with shavings in the bearings causing failure. International would get on ur ass as soon as a truck went down with a A26 and they would shotgun u possible parts you'll need to get it up as fast as possible. One had a code that may have lead to a engine and they shipped a engine over in a day to be safe incase we needed it.
@@evanwerkhoven7046 Cool, I work for International too, it's amazing how fast they can get us a complete engine. After the MaxxForce debacle they're doing everything they can to get ridi of that stain.
I owned cats and cummins 15, in 10 years of otr I never take it to the shop. I'm selling super reliable and powerful 6nz at the moment
@0311catfish True that, unfortunately all the crap the EPA has made us hang on our diesels it's affected us all in a not so good way. I hear that International is changing their DPF/DOC configuration and getting rid of EGR coolers. I kinda can't wait to see it and how well it works or not.
Was gonna get an international for my first truck, good thing i looked up the reviews, never got it, instead a series Series 60 freightliner came into my life and I haven't had a problem with it since.
Series 60 is a great engine it will get great mileage and it is very reliable.
Me too, i was planning on getting the intl pro star because i liked the exterior body but thank god i did my homework and studied it through and throigh, like you i went with the frwightliner 12 7 60 series and apart from little things that any old vehicle will have to be replaced, it has never left me stranded on the road. I always see trucks broe down on the road with their side steps panel removed which is a clear indication of emmision problems. Ill stay woth the old reliable pre emmision engines all day, taking care of my truck to last me as long as possible to push back the time ill eventually have to moove onto the emission time bomb engines.
learned more in your first 2 minutes than I had of countless minutes by other channels.
Thank You.
Coolant dropping that fast is the liner o-rings. Very common when you overheat that series of an engine. They don't crack heads as often as cat engines do.
Fragile o rings keep oil and water seperated. Oil and water mixed wipes bearings.
Bearings rarely go out. However, if you do an overhaul you replace bearings.
Only had to deal with one Maxxforce 13 in my career, mercifully! Terrible nightmare of an experience, only after a year of big $$ did my boss finally sell it.
I've heard the same thing, that the base engine was quite good.....graphite iron block, dry head gasket, German design. It was the complex turbo/cooler system, dual EGRs and the wiring (basically all the ancillary components) that were terrible. There's a reason Navistar almost went bankrupt during the Maxxforce"s tenure and had to get Cummins help to figure out how to make a compliant engine....should have followed Cat's lead and dropped out while they had a good reputation.
The larger maxforce engines are literally cats designs that international brought from them. It's clear why cat decided to drop out based on how maxxforce performed.
@@paulf3 we can thank the Damn EPA CARB and any other crackpot government org. for all this JUNK.
@@paulf3 the smaller Maxxforces (except the Maxxforce 7) were actually decent. Unfortunately the EPA ruined everything and navistar now has boring crappy Cummins engines.
I love international, I was 1 certification short of diamond certified on navistar products. The reputation of international went down the drain when the maxxforce engines came around. The A26 is starting to turn around the reputation but really slowly. The DT466E will always be the best medium duty Diesel engine ever built.
I also love them, no frills work trucks. The ones we run are all older with big cam Cummings though.
I’m diamond certified. You are not missing anything 😂😂
Garbage design and materials.
Biggest thing I heard from owner operators about a26s is they're leaky fuckers
A26 is off of the MAN D26. Interestingly enough, they got the design during a “strategic technology cooperation”, yet before Navistar was bought by Volkswagen. Oh boy, I can’t wait to go to work tomorrow and drive my Volkswagen LT. Hell, it’s a long lost cousin to the diesel Jetta I drove to work.
Ape, You tech us so much man ! Post as much as you can !! 👍🏼 Cheers 🍻
I have rebuilt more of these than I could count. All 466 based engines suffer the exact same failure. Yes even the old 466 mechanical that someone's grandfather bought in 1988. The piston scores and liner orings fail. The issues is that as the engines got newer the overhaul timeframe shortened significantly.
The us postal company I once worked for had them nearly on a schedule. The old mechanical engine was around every 15 years the, e series were consistent at about 8-10years. The second gen heui system (6.0l powerstroke style) made it 6-8 if well maintained . After that you pretty much roll the dice. At the start of the max force stuff it is just as likely to swallow a cooler as it is to get coked up the turbo or die due to def etc. Etc
The maxxforce 11/13 engines aren’t that bad to work on. Once you understand them and know the tricks to working on them, it’s easy peasy. But the best engine platform out there is Cummins, hands down.
No not Cummins Detroit
To hell with Detroit, once they and Freightliner were both bought by Mercedes Benz, and have to be blowing each other on everything they do now, they’ve gone to crap. The trucks are rubbish, the engines are a pain to fix, assuming you got Detroit (MBE472), because of course you did, and the “Detroit DT12” Transmission (Powershift 3) because you can’t be bothered with a more established Eaton, I hate those trucks. I’ve driven the Cascadia Evolution (if that’s the evolution, I’d hate to see from what exactly it evolved) and wasn’t thrilled, and the New Cascadia, even worse, so much flat plastic. I’ve never had a problem with Cummins, except that wonky engine brake.
And Detroit Diesel computers, sensors, and cameras? Where the hell did that come from? And the new Demand Detroit? I Demand a new truck.
@kyle what would you say the ct13 biggest issue is ? I keep hearing it’s because of the emissions equipment and once deleted, it’s actually pretty reliable ?
New Cummins ISB’s suck. They break down too often for little stuff.
Excellent video. Learned a lot. I worked on a dead international maxforce and it had blown the fuse for the ECU. It was the fuse on the battery. No crank, no start. Several drivers have told me theyve had electrical issues with maxforce
Sad part too is that I love the instrument cluster on International trucks. I just don’t trust Cummins engines or anything prostar for that matter.
Love your videos bro, keep em comin!!
Dt466 and dt360 are both one of the best diesel engines ever made
*DT466 and DT360 are TWO of the best Diesel engines ever made.*
@@mattbenluke Some
@@mattbenluke and early Maxxforce DT single turbo. The 2010-2015 Maxxforce DT is kinda bad.
Obviously you never owned a cat 6nz so.or any cat for that matter, you just say to say
@@mattbenluke *Cummins 5.9liter would like to have a word*
Makes me miss the days when you wouldn't see anything smaller than 16 gauge wire under the hood of a car, and all the other wiring that was important was substantial and chunky. Not any more. Remember working on my brothers Ford and the headlight wasn't working and the wiring for that wasn't even thick enough to use as dental floss. Naturally the few mouse pubes that were passing themselves off as stranded copper wire broke, and it needed a new connector.
I just replaced a oil pan on that exact motor yester day. You're the reason I got in to diesel mechanics.
Thank you for the mechanical tips of the intermittent speed of the cranking of the engine.
I read a forum a few years ago where a guy couldn't understand how two international trucks were selling for $30,000 difference when one had the IMAX engine and the other one had a Cummins engine.
I could have told that person questioning the price difference first hand that that $20,000 is a bargain. I've heard of international engines having to be rebuilt after 300,000 miles as if it's back in 1970 all over again.
In my maintenance manual on my Freightliner Century tractor, it has different tiers of service. The first tier is severe duty which is due to very cold temperatures or very Sandy ambient atmosphere or vocational trucks that idle about and drive short distances. The proper way to account for the severe duty operations is by hours and not by Miles.
I do hours and Miles both on my tractor since I'm kind of a tweener between severe duty and local duty. I go by whichever one takes first that it triggers the maintenance.
You can go by fuel burn as well, on my 3408 they recommend oil change at 9,500 litres / 2,500 US gallon fuel burn. I usually do it at 250 hours or 9,500 litre fuel burn.
>The trial included testimony from Jim Hebe, who previously was the senior vice president, North America Sales Operations. Hebe retired in October 2012. Hebe's testimony about the engine program mentioned that the company "did not test shit".
The best way to get a small transport business is to start with a large one and buy a fleet of internationals.
I had to drive a 7600 navistar for about three years and the only good thing was having time off when it was broken down yet again. noisy, uncomfortable, unreliable, fucked air conditioning, leaking fuel tanks, and interior falling apart to make a short list. and that was a new truck.
My first job was working at a international dealership before I started driving, I was in the parts department, I did that for a few years. And words of the wise was, from the mechanics and shop foerman, pro stars are cheap for a reason, and don't ever buy one with a maxxforce. I've heard that from a lot of guys over the years. One of the veteran drivers I knew that drove 9400 eagles for years got a pro star, and the only thing he said about it was "I don't like it".
It’s a shame. The DT is the only ‘good’ Maxxforce. Since they used Cummins they have gotten better but are still trash because the engines are plagued with emissions problems.
I had a DT 466 for 15 years with the only problem being the injector harness under the rocker cover. Good truck for the money!
Sounds like the same issue I had on ever 7.3 powerstroke I owned.
@@Mantis858585 That's because the 7.3 powerstroke and the DT466E use about the same fuel system and interchangeable injectors
Got a CAT CT660 that loves the coolant! Starts and runs like a dream but darn it loves coolant!
I had a maxxforce as a loner once. Ryder tech warned me, the last guy only made it 50 miles... I had the truck for 3 days, it barely made it back. Lots of lights and burning coolant.
I worked for International for 15 years as a Tech. EGR problems killed the reliability of otherwise decent power plants..
Fun Fact. International had problems with the DT-466 with piston liner o-rings. International called on a company to
make better O-rings for their liners. The company was Trojan condom company. True story.
Without checking your fact, that is hilarious.
Loved the video. It echos my experience with Navistar as well.
Thank you Larry.
Most definitely enjoyed the video just got an international 2006 7400 I bought it from the junkyard with 70,000 MI it was an old Town garbage truck I took the hopper body off and put a cesspool vacuum tank on it and the one thing I thought was funny is an indicator light for electrical problems plus this aftermarket battery kill switch installed which has to be shut off at night but I have to go in through 20 of them and half of them were natural gas that was the best one on point with your information brother
I haven’t had a modern truck yet that doesn’t spend more time in the shop than on the road. The most recent garbage was Volvo our company owned 160 of these trucks and out of the 15 we had in our local fleet had so many issues. Wiring, wiring harnesses, constant emissions issues. The engine and transmission were OK if you could keep the trucks running. I refused to give up my 90’s era series 60 Detroit freightliner after my brand new Volvo was in the shop all the time.
Volvo suck to work on, The I shift transmissions are junk, the D13s are junk cam problems, egr problems, injector problems, drop valves, and air compressor problems worse on the Mp7 "Mack" engine. Also Volvo suck to work on, Mack is even worse. I worked at a mack/volvo dealership for about a year and a half before going to Freightliner.
I love your videos !
great video,thanks
Tell me what truck that doesn't have issues with the pollution system? Our company lemon lawed a Mack over a constant egr failure. Our Western Stars with DDC were just as bad. It's really sad to see new trucks in the shop and relying on old ones with almost a million miles on them keeping the company going. We had 12 year old C15s on the second inframe on the road everyday while brand new trucks were in the shop.
The problem I remember with International was you needed to know the guy who built the truck to get the right parts.
Hope the auction buyer gets full disclosure on this damaged truck. 👀
Probably not, auction pictures may even show that coolant levels full..
That is why I cannot understand how anyone or any business can buy auction stuff that's "As is" and you cannot test drive it.
A few years ago I read a post on some trucking forum where guy said to the original poster who was looking to buy a truck: "if it doesn't come with maintenance records it's basically worth junk it".
That is a little bit harsh as I bought my tractor without maintenance records but I went through it with a fine tooth comb-for all the major components that is. I wish I spent a little more time looking through the interior and I might have knocked a grand off the price I paid for it.
I have a 2007 international 9900 with a C15 Acert, wiring was actually the one things I liked because I haven't had any issues with it in the 3 years I've had it. It's still held together super well, very easy truck to maintain. I guess they went down hill the newer they got and the more of their own engines they tried to shove in their though, I know those are pieces of junk.
Well the 7.3L powerstroke/T444E was amazing lol
My I.H. build non turbo 6.9 has been running 34 years!
The DT466 was also pretty good from what I've seen, the company didn't always make junk.
My 7.3 is 25 years old. Before that I had a 1972 Scout 2 with a gas 345 cu in v8 that ran well until I took it up to almost double the redline. All that being said, I wouldn't touch anything new that they make. They are a good example of, if your company is not improving, it is declining. Kind of like CAT not producing over the road truck engines anymore. My next engine will be a Cummins, and I hope to work for them sometime soon and develop my method of improving emissions and efficiency without having an EGR system. Of course if CAT were to approach me, I might be willing to work for them.
@@davidscott5903 doing away with the EGR would fix 90% of Diesel engine issues. I think it’s evident nowadays that the after treatment system isn’t the problem, it’s the EGR that causes the emissions related issues.
Now, yes, you do have the possibility of def system failures and dpf clogging, but I’d say EGR problems outweigh both.
I own a 99 Ford F-250 (7.3) PowerStroke. Brought new 10/98. 173,000 + miles. Six in the floor. 👓
The 7.3 PSD was good, but later PSD engines were a pain. The Powerstrokehelp channel is an expert on those trucks. Also, it is a good place to learn about diesels in general.
Navistar made a 4.5L V6 that was like a 6.0 PSD with 2 cylinders cut off. They were very uncommon, and as a result, getting repairs was a nightmare. The only vehicle I knew of which had the engine was the Ford LCF box truck.
The 6.4 was an early DPF engine, and it had to go into active regen very frequently. It would do so by overfueling the rear 2 cylinders, and that would destroy the turbos with heat. The turbos would then leak oil into the DPF, forcing even more regens, and the extra fuel would destroy the piston rings on the back 2 cylinders. Powerstrokehelp tried to rebuild those engines, but they were usually in such bad shape that they couldn't justify it. It ended up being cheaper to buy complete Motorcraft reman engines, plus those come with a good warranty on them.
Dt466 and the 7.3L are the only international products that run decent and are relatively reliable. Keep your dt466 stock and it will run forever. Easy to work on, easy to diagnose abd easy to repair. The interior on the internationals is cheap and loaded with plastic, where the tabs that hold the dash panels and such break off over time and you are forced to wedge things behind plastic panels to prevent rattling. You see a lot of international box trucks, and LTL trucks, because they are a little cheaper when making a fleet level purchase.
Anyone who knows, if it is a class-8 truck and it has a MAXXFORCE logo….run. Run fast!
I think you were looking at an old website. They gave the A26 engine now. I have one in my truck, 468k miles, and it’s been great. The engine design, engine and cab wiring, are much different than the previous generations. This is all old news. International is now part of Traton, VW Truck and Bus. That’s a lot of capital and technology they now have access to. The LT and A26 are a huge improvement and I think it will only get better.
Hold the panel up button and the little black button on the gauge cluster to shut the beeper off. Stays off until you cycle the key again
Interesting. Thanks!
In the schools buses we had nothing but issues with max force. They wore always electric head light gages always something.
My old 4700(DT 466) has been in our fleet for 21 years, and still ready to roll! My 2018 Workstar w/ L9 Cummins has been outstanding so far, zero issues. We have had some problems w/ the 2008 and up Maxxforce engines, mostly emission system issues. It will be interesting to see what VW does to International in the future. As for the annoying beeper, it can be shut off by holding the dash dimmer switch and the odometer reset buttons down at the same time (with the key on). Not ready to switch teams at this time, but would consider a Paccar truck if need be. Best IH engines: gas inline 6 400's, gas v-8's: 345, 549, diesels: 6.9, 7.3, 9.0 and the DT 466.
I agree with everything said here. I think the Dt466, DT466e and Maxxforce DT were the best engines made by International. Cummins is potentially good too but sucks because of the emissions trash.
The Tennessee Law Suit, reminds me of the Ford Motor Company Law Suit against Navistar since the 6.0L-6.4L Diesel Engines!
Had 2 prostars. Always electrical faults and shorts somewhere. Now driving a 2000 w900l old truck but man am I happy
When I was in a beer distributor fleet, my boss was pissed on how bad the EPA 10 dt were in reliability. Had traded 6 S lines tractors for 6 new 4400 with "new" twin turbo dts in a TERP deal the EPA was doing. By the time the first year went by, the folder holding all the warranty work ,tow bills and repairs in parts surpassed the thickness of a 2002 4400 with a old dt466 since it was new. EGR coolers were a maintenance item on those things if they would only last 100k
The S series was the last good looking IH truck line
I worked at a bus company a few years ago, and the company purchased twin 2012 IH Durastar hybrid buses with the MaxxForce and six speed Ultrashift. One bus was reliable, the other went back and forth to the dealership numerous times for engine problems just about every few weeks. The older 5.9 litre Cummins buses and the junkers with the Cat 3116 were more reliable. Plus the hybrid buses had a cab that was more for a five footer than a six footer like me. Very cramped and not user friendly. My 2004 Freightliner was roomier.
I worked at an international dealer for 4.5 years. And i can tell u i dont miss them one bit.
Personally, I am a big fan of the international trucks, but I am not a fan of their new engines, I prefer an international truck with a caterpillar or cummins engine
Their newest engine ................ the A26 ................. actually seems pretty solid. It's a 12.4L MAN engine! The MaxxForce was trash!
@@chackos123 I just bought one with an A26. I hope it works out. It does have a full 2 year warranty.
New trucks are non existent. If you order one it's a 12 month wait.
@@chackos123 Max Farce is more fitting
Or Detroit diesel
The A26 is hands down a better performing motor than the x15 in my experience
We have about 16 2012-2016 International MaxPro’s. Each one has had $1000’s of $$$ in EGR, fuel injectors, fuel pumps, DEF, emission software, etc. Each truck has had these components replaced multiple times. We have finally switched to Peterbilt🤞 .
I'm an international fan lol I like the 466 360 and I own 2 7.3s 1 idi 1 powerstroke
Thank you for sharing your wonderful videos I enjoy watching I am from South Africa
Was a fuel boy working at a garage and litteraly watched novice mechanics pouring oil with oil dry stuck all over funnels, they did things like this all the time and they would wonder why they had to send trucks to international dealer garage
We had 3 2015 international prostars. I had nothing but harness issues. From the factory one of the harness in the dash was ran over a sharp metal edge with no slack to move it away
Just like the Cat SDP engine killed it for Cat in the trucking market, too many issues.
My first truck was a 2004 7500 with the HT530, What a fucking nightmare. Honestly, If it started in the AM I would be so happy. Next truck was a nxs C15, It literally has started everyday for almost 9 years straight
I like the old IH trucks. I'm trying to buy an old 79 transtar 4300. With a 290 cummins lol I like the early 9300 series too.
Can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard somebody say intertrashional 😂
13 letter shit spreader
Crapistar Powerjoke.
The old DT-466 really liked to have it's coolant filter changed when called for or cavitation would eat thru the sleeves just above the o-rings. The problem may have never been fixed. This was a problem back in the 70's when IH used the 400 series 414/436/466 on the ag side. 436 mouth breather seemed to be the worst an old mechanic told me.
I am an Owner Operator of a 24ft box truck. GMC that is, but my question to you Adept Ape is I love GMC, and alot of old school GMC medium duty
Navistar has their own A26 engine that came out in 2017 which comes standard in all their trucks except the MV (newer 4300 model) and the shitty CV series (cheap Chevy top kick knockoff). Although the A26 has had a few drawbacks, it’s an incredible engine.
That’s because it was designed off of the MAN D38 platform and uses a Cummins designed emissions system.
We run small fleet, all International Lonestar's & we really like them, they are all the new X15 Cummins.
This week we went out on a limb & bought a LT with the new A26 we did however get the 600,000 mile warranty just in case.
I feel Navistar has learned a valuable lesson & is turning out a great product post 2017.
@@sdpistolero327 D26
The A26, or the Volkswagen D26, I actually like it. The DuraStar still has Cummins only, the dreadfully underpowered ISB, and the unfortunately uncommon ISL. The CV, which I still say stands for Chevrolet Vehicle, looks more like a Silverado, than the new Silverados do, which has (because of course it does) the 6.6 Duramax. ISB maybe? Or can’t they be bothered to do anything at all with exception of taking off bowties and putting diamond stickers over them.
I apprenticed at an international truck dealer for a short time in Canada, In the 6 months I was there I saw plenty of those maxxforce 13L and 15L engines come in for cracked EGR’s leaking coolant into engine. I was told that navistar somehow got ahold of the base engine design off caterpillar (this I believe because I remember pulling the doghouse off a prostar w/ maxx15 and coming face to face with a CAT branded rear camshaft cover on the cylinder head), added a bosch HPCR fuel system and their own emissions controls onto these engines. Apperantly these engines could not meet EPA standards and navistar actaully almost went tits up after a combination of having to payout fines on every engine they produced, warranty work, and lawsuits like you mentioned in the video.
The 15L was based on the CAT C15 the 13L was based on a MAN design, in both cases the emissions, electronics, fuel delivery and turbo plumbing were designed by Navistar. I think they did the heads for the 13L as well. In both cases they were trying to make an engine do something its makers never intended. CAT had thrown in the towel at making the C15 compliant with the new standards and exited the market, but Navistar claimed they could make it work. The MAN design met the Euro standards that were in the same ballpark as the new EPA rules using DEF, Navistar tried do it with EGR only (Everybody else in the market used DEF) .
They used a bunch of banked Emissions credits while they tried to make these engines meet the emissions standards but eventually the engineers in charge were canned when the bleeding showed no signs of stopping. The Cat engineers turned out to be right and the C15 could not be Cootered to meet the new standards so it was dropped. The MAN engineers were right and the 13L needed DEF to hit the standard. Navistar wound up going to Cummins to make an emissions package for the MAN 13L that actually met the standards and worked.
With the takeover of Navistar by Traton (owners of MAN) I'm pretty sure in a couple of years they'll have an emissions package made by the same people who made the rest of the motor which seems likely to yield better results than the Frankenstein approach.
The trucks and the 13L have been rebranded a couple of times since to try to escape the stain of the Maxxforce saga.
@@donrobbie5528 thanks for info
never drove a IH that doesn't have wireing issues mostly due to the connector in the dash operated a day cab with a 290cummins, totally reliable The best way to crash the wires was to hook up to a piggy back trl
Just found your channel. Really enjoying all of the good information. I am looking into buying a 2005 Peterbilt Redimix truck with the TwinTurbo C 11. I have heard good things and bad things about this truck engine. I have also seen guys convert to single turbo on a TwinTurbo C 15. What is your opinion of the sea 11 and possibly converting it to a single turbo?
I was looking for financing a few years back through Richie Bros and in big bold writing they say that they will not finance International. So that tells you something
Ive only drove freightliners so when i got in an old international to take my drivers test at my new company i was in shock at how different the interior was, like I couldn’t find the jakes , and something else i needed. Everything was garbage as per the layout. I got done with my test and asked him “who in their right mind would drive a PoS international” and he got butthurt saying “they used to have a factory here my family worked at , they all got layed off” i was just thinking to myself “i can see why”
They are different with their switches and such.
Great Chanel
Great content!
good stuff
I’ve always been a fan of International, we always had International School Busses since early 70’s. And yes they had many crappy engines but they had lots of great engines, The inline 6 back in 1993 (Don’t know the name given to that engine) and the T444E were 2 fantastic engines.
They had many gauge cluster issues (after 90’s) they are junk.
You have to separate the engine and the vehicle, cause if the engine isn’t an International and made by Cummins or Detroit and the engine has issues then it’s an engine problem. The vehicle itself has its own issues. A lot of the issues now is computer related, get rid of the computer and I’m sure a lot of problems would fix themselves.
Are they all bad? No but they have their problems just like all the other trucks.
Any coments on the International 9.0L? They're almost indestrutible, and sound amazing if you put straight
@@panamatrucker the 1st 10000 9.0 blocks were too thin on the deck. 5 or 6 head gasket revisions, some oil leaks otherwise good engine. The cool part was the piston came up beyond the deck, the head was cupped for piston clearance and the valves were angled like a hemi.
@@greggwenig6163 in past we ran a lot of those 9L and Cats3208 here in Panama as a public transport buses, they were so damn loud man, i love hear them around the city racing each others
In these days they are difficult to find
I will agree with you I actually word for international
I don’t per say like the body styles but they are pretty good trucks people say they are shit because of the engine in there truck pop the hood and it’s a x15 Cummins
Well then that’s not a Internatinol truck problem that’s a Cummins problem
Yoooooo APE!! You're back son
You have the first comment! Yeah been busy with house stuff, but with the summer coming to an end I'll probably be making more videos.
@@AdeptApe
We look forward to them.👍
IH went to hell after the Dt466 and early power strokes. I was a fan of there 9400I earlier the wiring wasn't a complete nightmare. But I couldn't agree with you more.
The e models werent even that good.
Most likely it was just the EGR cooler. Sometimes they get big holes in them and make it look like a cylinder.
Unlikely, EGR coolers on the EPA 10 Maxxforce DT/9/10 (99% positive the engine depicted in the video, would need to get a closer look to see if it was an N9/N10) usually fail and cause coolant to go through the engine and exhaust. I have only seen one or two hydrolock engines.
@@Downstriker559 well I have seen it. Only time u see cylinders leak that bad on EPA 10 is overheat.
Blown liner o-ring! Most of our laxxforce woes are EGR coolers. And the occasional busted lifter retainer that wipes a cam...
Only reason navijunk exists is they are half the cost of a good chassis.
I was at the company that sells the gas engines that replaced the 444 and 466 Max Farce diesels that just couldn't handle city driving in school buses . I H had laid off the majority of their engineering staff since the EGR pipedream had proved un workable over a decade ago . Many I H people ended up at the industrial engine outfit and were stuck on the I H gas program. I H was too cheap to spring for a new wiring harness or ECM and body module . Their former engineers had to come up with a stand alone ECM that plugs into and works with the ancient I H electrical system designed for diesels . So you have a separate ECM underhood that operates solenoids and pumps for gasoline and CNG , LP or regular propane or a combination of both . Early on many electrical failures were due to the goo I H slops onto all electrical terminals and plugs.
Very familiar with all Maxxforce engines, can’t believe it didn’t bankrupt Navistar.
Hold panel bright and the instrument cluster toggle at the same time to silence the chime.
Save your money and sanity and buy a Kenworth or Peterbilt. Even Freightliner has gotten better. Manual tranny though.
instrument cluster toggle?
@@Raise986 Hold panel bright button to the up position and the black plastic instrument cluster toggle switch (on the lower right hand side of the cluster) at the same time until the chime goes away.
That cat hat is legit
The one thing that worked well on the box trucks I used to drive, was the 4 way flashers! The trucks had NO power. One day I raced a 10 year old kid on a bicycle. I couldn’t catch him til the road took a dip. Those trucks would lose a race with Amish buggies!
Good ol maxi pad I work on them daily lol.time fir a inframe but and of right now I'm ingraming a 3406b I love working on the old engines.and your right the 444e and dt 460 and older engines are great but after that they are junk engine. thanks for all the videos man keep up the good work and God bless
Hi i have ? Is it normal for a peterbit c15 to raise and lower the temperature in a repaired engine?
In Philly our trash trucks are mostly freightliners with some intl. Mostly cause they don't have highway miles most of all our issues and Regen after treatment stuff. No driver runs the Regen with the truck passive Regen. They don't smell the difference or notice the slight rpm change. By the time I get to fix it I gotta use Cummins insite then I can do regens
Remember that the DT-466was a tractor engine modified for use in trucks. The emissions and DEF has messed up so many other man- ufacturers, not only Int'l. In wanting their own big bore en- gine Int'l bought the blocks from MAN of Germany and added everything else to them. Int'l is now a part of TRATON truck group which is owned by Volks- wagen who also owns MAN & SCANIA.
As a Paccar tech for Kenworth they deff take wiring seriously. The first time you do a engine or chassis harness you will understand. Well made but alot of work to remove at least its not common aside from operator damage. Typically trucks in the landfills are in my experience that destroy the harness.
Great video as usual, but cat had a lawsuit just like that about the same time!
Hi there good videos, I have a 2004 KW T600 c15 acert is breaking the turbo pre cooler already 3 turbo precoolerl
It reminds me of the both 6.0L and the 6.4L Power Stroke Engines!
I own International truck with ISX15. Great truck. International do have new engine A26. It’s a European engine made by MAN. Paccar engine made by DAF.
I worked for a international dealership when these things were new and they were garbage. School busses coming in with 25-30k needing lift pumps (bc no filtration prior to) and lots of no-starts from losing too much oil from the o-rings going into the injectors giving IPR hell. I affectionately coined the name MaxxFarce bc they were a joke, but if you're a fleet tech they will make sure you stay busy!
Sharp diagnosis.
Tip to keep your sanity : If you press and hold the odometer button on the ICU , and hold the Down button for the lights dimming, the ANNOYING low air buzzer will shut off
I don’t comment on here much but I’ll say this. I have 4 maxxforce engines and all four I did a delete, cored out the dpf filters and blocked the egr valves. I have had Zero issues since I did that. They have been super reliable. They range from 2008 to 2011. They are all dt 466
You should look into the l9. They have a tiny pin aligning the lifters. One breaks and shtf.
Traton Trucks owns it all now. Volkswagen owns Traton Trucks. So in time things will get better for International and something good will come out of it.
I was getting worried haven’t seen a video in a while I totally agree with you i work on a bunch of dt 466s and internationals with cummins in them. Id say the dr 466 is their best engine and thats sad
My father has had a couple International Trucks over the years. A couple 9400s with c13s and now a Prosstar with a isx15. The prostar overall has been a great truck, but the wiring on them is a complete mess.
I just bought a 9400i that was the only thing decent I could find pre-emissions that that the prices weren't inflated into Bolivian ...
So far the only thing I really hate about it is the dash is a piece of s*** the hood wiggles and I have no cruise control or fan override...
Other than that she rides half decent she does have 600,000 on her and surprisingly it's rather quiet inside.