How Navistar Almost Killed Ford's Powerstroke Lineup
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ค. 2024
- From the 6.9 IDI, 7.3 IDI, 7.3 Powerstroke, 6.0 Powerstroke, and 6.4 Powerstroke. This is how Navistar International destroyed Ford's Powerstroke brand by building terrible engines.
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Sources for video information:
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dieselresource.com/diesel-res...
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navista...
fordauthority.com/fmc/ford-mo...
news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/01...
prosourcediesel.com/blog/ford...
www.aftermarketnews.com/navis...
www.autonews.com/article/2007...
www.carthrottle.com/post/a-br...
www.cummins.com/engines/picku...
www.dieselhub.com/maintenance...
www.dieselworldmag.com/diesel...
www.dieselworldmag.com/diesel...
www.dirtydieselcustom.ca/blog...
www.drivingline.com/articles/...
www.drivingline.com/articles/...
www.drivingline.com/articles/...
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www.enginebuildermag.com/2015...
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www.motortrend.com/features/0...
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www.quora.com/Why-did-Ford-di...
www.thedieselstop.com/threads... - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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I'd like to note that Dodge DIDN'T have a diesel offering in 1982. They dropped Mitsubishi in 1979 and didn't reintroduce a diesel to their lineup until 1989.
Wrong you could get a Perkins 4cill diesel
Possibly John Deer /white backhoe using a waukesha in line 6 diesel many options could have worked out rather than v8 block design for pickup trucks .Industrial diesel design for improved efficiency reliability avoid all the trial and error of vblock diesel. Customers paying public remember bad taste in mouth failure of manufactures poor reliability .
I have a f250 7.3 and love mine ,I've had mine for 8 years and have had no issues in pulling my 20 foot flatbed with my tractor or in moving anything in general.
I had an 1985 Ram 50 with a turbo diesel Mitsubishi in it. Love it and had crazy power and great fuel mileage. Unfortunately the body and frame rusted out long before the engine gave up.
I’ll like and subscribe once you make a 6.7 video 😊
Drove my dads old 6.9 farm truck in high school during the mid ‘90’s. Tough truck, but as he said, “It wouldn’t pull the hat off of the top of your head” back when he ran cattle in the 80’s. Mom and dad both bought new 7.3’s in ‘00 & ‘03. I unfortunately bought a new 6.0 in ‘06. Needless to say after two hydro locks, it turned out to be an awesome truck once “bullet proofed”. With a tuner, it would absolutely run circles around a tuned 7.3. So funny story, I asked dad if he was ready to buy a new one, and his response was, I’ve got the “last of the Mohicans” and when your’s is broke, I’m still running. He drove that truck to the day he passed away in 2018, and I agree it was probably the best power stroke ever made. I ended up buying a new Ford designed 6.7 in ‘16, and I’ll say it’s been a great engine despite the fact that you’ve got the egr, dpf and it’s constant regeneration, and selective catalyst reduction requiring def. Love ya dad; Ford Diesel man!
The 6.7 is so good because 1) Ford has total control, in house, of any problems that could arise with it. Not that Ford is magical but having everything done yourself makes it easier to fix problems.
2) Years of development and improvement in the use and operation of EGR, SCR and DPF systems. I wouldn't want ANY diesel made between 09 and 12 unless it was a fresh engine and I could delete everything. The systems were just being refined and fixed on-the-go during that time and are just terrible. I drive semis and lived that time period with those issues.
delete that 6.7 and it REALLY starts to become a decent motor
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now the plastic oil drain plug is trash...... the 2 piece oil pan is trash
been reports of bad rods
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but while im not a ford guy..... i drive a 2012 F550 for work
and its held up pretty damn good (but i do baby the fuck out of it..... as its a ford.... if it was a 6.6 or 5.9.... i would NOT baby it)
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but we have that 6.7 ford deleted
no EGR
no SCR
no DPF
just a "straight pipe" from the turbo exit to the tail pipe
.
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and on a "tire truck" that has to drive into tall wheat crop and fire tractor tires
i REALLY dont want to start any fires
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so the ONLY!!!! way to actually do my job during harvest...... is to FULLY delete that truck
ford, dodge, chevy, nissan, honda, KW, pete, freightshaker..... it HAS TO BE fully deleted
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otherwise no farmer in his right mind would allow me to pull into a SUPER DRY wheat field
@@kainhall
Your oil pan info hasn't been relevant in over 10 years....
5.9l hasn't been relevant in 15 years....great transmissions though.🙄🙄
LMAO @ GM for anything regarding work.
@@jonathanstancil8544
Both my '12 and '19 PSD's were nearly flawless. (did have some sensors replaced on the '12 under warranty but they never affected drivebility)
The '19 was a DEF whore compared to the '12 and it never got the economy either.
I covid flipped the '19 and ordered a '22 F-450.
Sure the 4.30's aren't going be easy at the gas pump...lol!!
What a touching comment, read and reread it a few times, shout out to you and your Dad.
I work for a tree service. We have a few 7.3’s in our fleet and they get the absolute dog shit ran out of them. Usually sees limiter once or more a day in the winter when plowing/towing. Neither one skips a beat. Fantastic engine.
We also have a 6.5 Detroit that just refuses to die as the rest of the truck around it falls apart.
any detroit ever made will kick the shit out of IDI or 100% ford motors
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id even say they will give a cummins inline 6 a run for its money.....
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the GM 6.6 is in the middle somewhere
@@kainhall old 6.6 maybe, new gm is junk.
@@BudMasta no they are not junk!!
Emission Crap has NOTHING to do with the new (newer) 6.6 Duramaxe’s!!
@@kainhall Detroit what ??? 🤣 The 6.5 is such a problematic engine
@@orlandomoreno5326 my experience shows the 6.5 is VERY reliable...
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its just slow AF.....
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name ANY engine that has a reputation for being "bullet proof"...
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jeep 4.0
ford 300 I6
cummins 5.9
GM 2.5 iron duke / tech 4
ETC
ETC
ETC
.
they are ALL under-powered and slow
AKA..... under-stressed (therefor, over built)
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THATS why the jeep 4.0 (ETC ETC) is reliable
My 2002 7.3 has 400K miles and still runs strong. When the injectors were replaced at 380K it still had great compression.
How did the injectors sound before you replaced them
Was those the original injectors?
Great information I have a 95 7.3.
I won't get rid of 215k only put 3.5
Neighbor of mine had an 02 put million miles on it and went thru 3 transmissions, he used to haul stupid heavy stuff, was a heavy equipment scrapper and he sold that truck and got something different, it was still going
@@ryanmiller167 he said garage keep 😂
The 6.9 and 7.3 actually have the exact same stroke, it’s the bore they increased to get the extra 24 cubes out of the same block. This is why 7.3’s had cavitation issues, the cylinder walls were awfully thin.
Cylinder walls are not thin on the 7.3s
They solved cavitation on the 414, 436, and 466 in tractors by adding a coolant filter. The new filter was loaded with an additive to keep the coolant working.
Wouldn't be difficult to add in other applications. Or run elc-1.
@@scotcoon1186 correct with proper coolant containing SCA's it is a non issue
So basically a 6.9 is just a more reliable 7.3. If so than I'm smart bc I'm gonna get me a 6.9 for my 1st truck
@@carter.coleman both good, the 7.3 does have larger head bolts. 6.9's will sometimes have an issue with a head gasket weep from the head lifting and you certainly don;t want to much boost to them if you put a turbo on without doing headstuds.
07’ 6.0 with over 500,000 miles on it. They are great engines. Just remove the EGR cooler / valve, change coolant every 25,000 miles, use quality oil and make sure you have quality batteries to keep the FICM alive. More power than a 5.9 Cummins. Also, 21.5mpg is pretty damn good for a crew cab long box 4x4 F-350.
Question: I removed my EGR, but not the valve because I heard removing the valve would mess with the fan operation. Is this true? And how did you stop the CEL from the missing valve? Do tell-I want to know!🙂
You are so correct..
No it won’t mess with the fan. You have to get a tuner to shut the CHeck Engine Light off. I have an SCT tuner to do this. Where I live my truck has to go through emissions because it’s a 2007 and it passes every time.
Also, I removed the intake manifold that the valve sits in and replaced it with a ported intake. If you keep the original intake manifold there are companies that make a plate you can install in place of it.
@@zackzander425 I have an SCT also. Chose disable EGR option, and I don’t get a CEL anymore from removal of EGR. But now I’m getting a CEL from the valve itself - P0404. I have hesitated removing the valve for fear I won’t be able to turn the CEL off for this.
Odawg S3 for intake? What did you use?
Edward Man yes. Odawg S3R.
I worked for International dealers from 04-14 and worked on all of them from 6.9 to the 6.4. At the time of the 6.0 (VT365) I didn't think there could be a worse engine, we were constantly repairing these. Then the 6.4 (Maxxforce 7) came out, went from doing patch jobs on 6.0s to engine swings on the 6.4s. They liked to eat camshafts and the whole engine needed replacement
Did you ever find casting sand or anything left over from the manufacturing process? I work for Nav and we heard all kinds of warranty horror stories. We git so Indy holdovers in our plant after the closed the engine shop, and from the work of some of those folks it was absolutely believable.
YUP. Roller lifter failures were pretty for the 6.0/6.4 in Ford trucks too.
'04 F350, 6.0L owner here. My dream truck was a 94-97 7.3, 4door, longbed - too bad those have become insanely expensive in decent shape. Ended up with a 6.0L. The amount of terrible shit I've heard about that engine (and prepped myself for) was crazy.... That being said, rebuilt and bulletproofed the engine myself, headstuds, headgaskets, bigger injectors, tuned, aftermarket low-flow EGR (not deleted), and a bunch more.... BEST TRUCK I'VE EVER OWNED. 170k miles, probably won't last until 350k, but I would buy another one for $6k in a HEARTBEAT. Screams, whistles, roars, and blows the tires off everytime I punch it! Considering a used 6.7 Powerstroke with 250-300k miles can go for over $25grand in North Texas, I'd willingly buy 2-3 6.0s and fully bulletproof/build them for that price.
(Just adding my two cents, be prepared to work on them - but I am 100% a 6.0L fan now. Can't push it past 750-800hp daily - unlike a 5.9/6.7 dodge - but I'll take it for being so cheap and fun. Currently running 575-650hp depending on tune, and it'll go sideways on a 2nd gear roll. )
6.4 owner here i heard nothing but terrible crap about it and its the same to me as a 6.5 diesel its how you take care of it.
You can go past 350k on a 6.0. I got 360K miles on mine and still going. All deleted with a 50hp tow tune all on stock turbo/injectors on a 2003 6.0. The transmission on the other hand......FML.
I enjoyed this video very much. I'm 75 years old. In 1994 I bought a large 5th wheel and had the old 6.9 naturally asperated Ford F-150. The 6.9 could not pull a 10,000 lb trailer very well and smoked so badly you couldn't see traffic behind you. In early 1998 I bought a 1997 Ford F-250 Powerstroke as a camper special with CA emissions. Upon purchase I got 20 mpg pulling the 5th wheel. Ford recalled the truck and recalibrated the PCM and it dropped to 18 mpg. The Navistar 7.3 is absolutely the best engine Ford ever had. Now in 2021, I still have my F-250 Powerstroke. Since 1998 I have changed (1) glow plug. Unlike my 351 Windsors, It does not leak a drop of oil from rear seal or valve covers. Don't know where your coming from with the 7.3 oil leak issue. My PS has now 150 K miles, has been serviced yearly and is absolutely the best truck I have ever owned. I just do all the fluids yearly, flush cooling system, and no BS, it runs the same as 1998. Only bad thing is the flapper valve in the boost system. When it's 14 degrees, the beast can't move very well till it heats up. There's a mod to take that out, but i never did it. Anyway, I think it's the best motor I've ever had. My buddy bought a 6.0 and died all the way to the bank.
My 2000 7.3 leaked all over. It had 394,000 before I handed the reigns over to the next guy. It was tired but still ran, with a zf6 coupled behind her. I miss that truck sometimes.
We had a 6.0 with 450k miles that ran flawless. Absolutely love the simplicity of my 6.9idi. I went to a ford class and they asked what every owner should have in the glove box, 7.3 was cam sensor, 6.0 ficm/egr valve 6.4 new engine
And the idis should have a can of ether lol
@AustinDemeyere unless there's air intrusion or glow plugs are neglected the idis start right up. Mine sat for 20 years, fresh set of batteries and fuel filters it fired right up.
@@imnopp 100% true, having a lot of problems with mine right now lol just replaced feed/return lines confirmed all glow plugs and relay is working and no air in the return side yet the feed drains back overnight, and I can crank and crank it allllllll day and it will never build fuel pressure until I give it a shot of ether then it starts right up and runs perfect
I own a 2001 F250 with the 7.3L. It's been an amazing reliable motor. I have only had to replace the glow plugs about 5 or 6 years ago. And the original starter just last month! No other repairs other than replacing both batteries about every five years and regular maintenance. It tows my fifthwheel trailer great at high altitude in mountainous terrain (I live in Utah). I'm a big fan of the 7.3L! Yeah it's not as powerful as the newer diesels, but it's dang reliable.
Thanks for sharing Jason. Can I ask how many miles you have on it now? Original injectors?
@@chrisfowler623 It has almost 180,000, so not a lot for a 21 year old truck. It does have the original injectors.
@@jasonmiller6371 I also have the same truck. Got it a year ago with 169k. Around 192k now. Love the dang thing so much. First diesel too. All new to me. I didn’t even know diesel didn’t use spark plugs. Haha
I have a 2001 F-250 7.3 as well. My dad bought it new and we went together to pick it out. He passed in 2016 and now I have it. Has 239k miles so far and I've only replaced batteries every 5 years or so, starter a few years back and water pump last year. I will eventually do a full restoration when the time comes but I'm enjoying it for now, it runs great! I plan on keeping the truck forever as it was my dad's and the truck has sentimental value. They are great trucks.
@@a98ctr62 that’s awesome!
Personally, I loved the old 6.9 IDI, and 7.3 IDI engines, I’ve owned several of both that lasted 300k plus miles. The glow plugs and injector O-rings were terrible, but besides that they were great. I still own and drive the rarest, a 1987 with a 6.9, 4x4, 4 speed. I have also had good luck with 6.0’s. We run 3 2005’s, all 6 speed 4x4, all with 250k-300k miles. All of our trucks newer than ‘05 are Dodge, only because they were easier to find with a manual.
Back around 1998 I had a chance to buy an 89 7.3 IDI, 5 speed, 4x4 with a full Gale Banks setup. It had been hit in front and needed a front clip, radiator etc. It did run and drive though. Man, I shoulda bought that!
I daily drive in the summer on my farm
A 1992 7.3 idi 5 speed 4x4.. It has 380,000 miles and I got it at 296,000 out of the states. No rust. I love it. Gonna build a bottom to top perfect 7.3 idi turbo for her and give it to my son
The later 6.9's did have issues with the Piston rings. They opted for a ceramic composite ring which ended up in premature cylinder wear if the engine was not maintained to an incredibly high standard.
I got a 86 6.9idi that a previous owner swaped out the 4spd with the zf5 spd and I put the turbo system from a 94 truck. It still kinda gutless but if I had to choose to sell either the 6.9 or my 94 bronco, I belive its an 85% chance ill keep the 6.9idi.
I drive a 85 f250 with a swopped 7.3 idi and zf5 out of a 90 350 up and down the east coast multiple times a years. During those trips it's pulling generators up the side of goat paths to cell towers mainly off road. Also while having a snow plow on it. Love it, it's so simple, all the modern trucks are braking down around me from stupid computer, emissions, bull shit hup assembles and I'm rolling by costing me pennies a mile. Been on the road like this for over a decade.
The 6.0 was victim of "beancounters" interfering with engineering. Going from 5 head bolts per cylinder to 4 SMALLER and WEAKER head bolts per cylinder was IDIOCY! Running engine coolant through the EGR cooler, and precipitating particulates, and then through the oil cooler with UNDERSIZED coolant passages, was ANOTHER decision reeking of STUPIDITY! Aftermarket "bulletproofing" of the 6.0 with larger diameter NONYIELDING STUDS, AIRCOOLED oil cooler and other improvements has shown that the 6.0 is a VERY good engine that was CASTRATED by poor design decisions and abysmal project management!
The same 6.0 liter was used in the E-series with less failure than the F-series for a few reasons. Most notably that the E-series was down tuned and most E-series weren’t tuned or beaten. They still suffered egr cooler failures and plugged oil coolers but rarely head gasket issues. The early production run of the 6.0, with the round egr cooler rarely had issues. I thought it was a great engine.
Exactly. I was about to say this..."beancounters" . The ones from Ford rushed International/Navistar on the 6.0 instead of letting International/Navistar take their time and perfect it and make it better than the 7.3!
Then stop trying to jack up the power and you will not that problem in the first place, but I agree you on YIELDING STUDS is very STUPIDITY! decision by all automakers if I can I replace them with reg NONYIELDING bolts or studs.
@@SHSPVR I have a 2003 F350 Lariat, 6.0 Powerstroke, 5spd AT, Crew Cab, Dually, 8' bed. The original 6.0 was destroyed by a Ford mechanic at a dealership in Tennessee...a mechanic not trained or authorized to work on the 6.0! Since it cratered 400 miles later, and 36 miles out of warranty, it wasn't a nice day. I replaced that engine with an '04 6.0 out of a totalled truck with only 4,500 miles on it. I put over 230,000 miles on the replacement before the oil cooler blew. I now know what the deficiencies are and have been gathering parts as I can (I'm disabled on Social Security) and a new radiator is the last one left. I do have a tuner on it but I keep it in Economy mode unless towing or hauling more than 3,000-5,000 lbs. Performance mode has been used about a dozen times in 18 years for about 5 minutes each time. I got 21mpg on flat, level highway at 60-65mph and never less than 12mpg fully maxed towing from Texas to Washington state. I will be repairing it myself and will block off EGR cooler and have improved oil cooler with larger coolant passages. Since I DON'T turn it up, I don't expect to have headbolt issues. I regularly use Hot Shot's Secret fuel and oil additives and haven't had any injector issues. If the EGR cooler hadn't destroyed the oil cooler with precipitate, I fully expected to get between 500,000 and 1,000,000 miles before serious work. I had 6.9 and 7.3 in the past but I honestly like the 6.0 more...despite Ford screwing it up with BAD decisions.
@@stevenmitchell6347 I replace them any way with ARP studs, I don't let no ****ing dealership mechanic anywhere near my stuff my nephew has the 04 6.0 Power Stroke, 5spd AT, Crew Cab, 8' bed that he wanted I couldn't talk him out of it, I would have preferred he got a Dodge Cummins or a Chevy Duramax but this summer we going Bulletproof by toss in Sinister Diesel Complete Solution and new update Turbo and tab bigger 155 Injector she got 200k
I have a 92 with a Banks turbo, mechanic replaced the injection pump, and turned it up a bit. It runs great.
Nice! How much power do you think it makes?
@@Dustrunnersauto all of it 🤣
Picked up a 99 7.3 with 238k and only had to replace the power steering pump…getting 18 on the highway and she runs very nice. Not the fastest but will get you there! Oh and the best part bought it for 1500 dollars. The new tires almost cost as much as the truck…
$1500 da fuck! people around i live want $15,000 I know what i have bullshit.
@@crazeguy26 right? All rotted out no bed leaks oil and needs glow plugs and add says only 14000 lol. We can finance anyone!!
My favorite thing to do when I go buying a truck is to bring my Acura Legend with, now that’s a rare car @ only 7k made per model year.
Gives me the ultimate “I know what I have”, and gives me the room I need to open up valid and reasonable negotiations. I’ll usually offer a straight swap and be met with “your 20 year old Acura isn’t worth $20k!”, to which I usually respond with “well pal, neither is your 20+ yr old truck that there’s millions of per model year but here we are”. I’ve gotten “$20k trucks” for less than 4-5k before using this method.
Once these people realize that the 2nd and 3rd Gen Acura Legends are truly worth (2nd Gen $10k-$18k, 3rd Gen $5k-$12.5k) more than their trucks they usually wanna hop right for that trade I offered, but I won’t bite at it at that point anymore.
Mods don’t add value either, just cause I got almost $5k into my sound system (and I do), doesn’t mean the cat is worth $5k more to someone else. The cost for that seemed legitimate and worth it to you, but it very likely won’t to someone else. Discount your mods by 50% (for performance mods) and 75% (for aesthetics) of their original price and tack that on as that’s a LOT more reasonable to any prospective buyers.
My brother bought a new Super Duty back in 2008 with the new 6.4L PS. It lived at the Ford dealership most of that time due to warranty repairs. Eventually it was "bought back" via the Lemon Law Buyback program. The 6.4L PS is why we both don't own diesel pickups today.
Had a 6.4. Won't ever buy Ford again. Complete junk.
I have a built 6.0, once you fix the short cummings of the coolant and emissions you have a great motor
In California, 1997 is the last year for smog exempt diesels. It is also the last year Ford had the 7.3 powerstoke without the intercoolers and electric fuel pumps.
mine was a 97 powerstroke 3/4t heavy duty last year for them too ans i still miss it,sorta
just stick a 6.7 powerstroke in a 97 or older. nothing they can do since its a 97.
They also had CA only injectors and programming for split shot operation.
Keep doing what you doing these, everything you need to know and engine versus videos are the most helpful thing to my Automotive knowledge
Super amazing vid,really enjoyed the old footage of the amazing trucks,your entertaining and can hold my attention, now I have go back and watch the rest of your vid but needed to tell you how much I appreciate the video
I'd like to touch on a few points-
The 6.0 was pretty decent, but a lot of it's issues are maintenance related. The biggest issue was people putting in green coolant. These used a non silicate coolant due to the oil and EGR coolers. The extreme temperatures of the EGR cooler would boil the coolant and cause the silicates to precipitate out. This would lead to essentially sand floating around the cooling system, and clogging the tiny passages of the oil cooler. Once that clogs, it starves the EGR cooler, which breaches and allows coolant into the intake. While the head bolt spec was deficient, most "blown head gaskets" were actually a blown EGR cooler.
Most trucks since 2000 are far easier to work on with the cab off. If this costs you thousands extra, you are getting ripped off. It takes 1-1.5hrs to remove the cab on any diesel GM, Ford, or Dodge/Ram truck. Vans and Excursions can be tricky, but not terrible. Basically, you have one or two large electrical connectors, a couple brake lines (or leave the master cylinder on the frame), and some shift linkage. I've had all three off side by side at once.
The 6.4, and any other Maxxforce series engine is hot garbage, although the first DPF engines were bad for everyone. A hurried deployment, lack of research with materials, and the attempt to use the engine's injectors for dosing were all really bad. Once things got figured out, and they went to downstream dosing injectors reliability for all makes went way up.
The 6,7 has it's own issues, but seems decently reliable with the matured tech on it. The biggest issues I've seen are leaking turbo gaskets and upper oil pan.
The 6.0 really hurt from heavy loads
I'm going to have to take issue with your claim that the 6.4 got better after time. We have a 2013 Terrastar with 86k on the clock and it is toast. It gets regular, proper service and is the worst engine we ever had. We have another one that currently still runs but it only has 40k. We will be dumping it this winter.
@@4793bigdaddy I never said the 6.4 got better. The 6.7 was much better, because they had figured out the whole DPF and regen thing. The 6.4 will always be a turd of an engine.
@@jaredkennedy6576 I misunderstood. My big question to Navistar is, why on Earth did they continue with this engine for so long? Why did they not at least try to fix some of the issues during its run? It's a pity because it runs like a scalded dog for a little while.
I've had my 1993 F350 CC Dually with 7.3L IDI Turbo (factory turbo replaced with Banks Sidewinder) for over 16 years now. No rust, awesome shape. At 230k miles the biggest engine repairs were a broken exhaust valve spring and re-sealing the oil cooler. Replaced the glow plugs about 60k miles ago (secret is to use Motorcraft GPs ONLY) and have put two fuel return line sets on it. All the other maintenance has been what one would expect for any gas or diesel powered pickup. Plan to drive it until I die.
A great video for someone considering buying a used diesel. Only experience I have is with the old 6,.9L with a 4 speed. Always got decent performance and reliability. It survived two round trips on the Alcan from Seattle to Anchorage without a hiccup, a trip where you can't afford to break down.
Got a 2010 6.4L and love it. Got it low milage and deleted the EGR valve and EGR coolant. Then deleted the DPF filter and bought a tuner that deleted the re-gen.
Cost about $700 and haven't had any issues.
Same here! Going on 208,000 miles strong. Pulls my 35' camper with no hesitation. I love mine.
What kind of gain in efficiency did you see?
@@andrewday3206
Not really much I'm sorry to say. I was hoping to see a good jump in MPG but the main reason was for reliability.
I would say somewhere in the neighborhood of .3-.5 MPG increase.
I can feather foot it around and get around 17.4-17.6mpg (according to the dash cluster) when before it might have been closer to 16.8 or 17.
Definitely seems to spool faster, most likely due to less restrictive exhaust. Little quicker getting up and going but nothing too drastic.
Tuner is from GearBoxZ and is just to delete re-gen operation, doesn't change anything else about the factory tune. Also kit had straight pipe that bolts in place of the DPF.
@@akafox91
That’s good info thanks
I know they retard the injection event to lower NOx emissions. I’d be curious how much one can gain tuning for efficiency and not lesser NOx emissions
Is it too late to that now...I can't find anyone to assist with that process
The 6.0 had such great potential if it had been built right. With the right mods, and parts it is a great engine given its VG turbo and 4 valves per cylinder. Still love my 97 7.3 as it has never let me down.
Diagnosing high pressure oil system is a crap shoot. Step one replace IPR then scratch your head
Seems ford could have tried to avoid many problems , build version of DT466 international engine 6 inline that has been around for lengthy reliable reputation arrived at improved fuel economy riability .O well live learn the hard painfull way .
@@jodybrown4956 The DT466 is a great example of an engine that's been around ages and adapted for numerous modern updates. Only thing is, it's a 1,500lb behemoth. There WAS an IH DT360, but it's physically bigger than a 5.9 Cummins and was never meant to push high numbers. The IH Neuss factory in Germany also made a 358 up until around 1988, but that's a farm engine with a much higher cost to rebuild vs the IH 400 series design.
@@masoncarlisle363 yes. The DT360 is the engine in the 1066 tractors from the 1970s so commonly used as Pro Stock pulling tractors. We still have ours, and it's almost as old as I am (just turned 50). As for the DT466, the mechanical versions were hell for stout. We have one in the IH 5488, which was the last large row crop tractor design produced by IHC prior to the Case merger.
Honestly, the problems the 6.4s can be saved by
1. adding an extra lift pump I.,e an airdog, which also has the added filtration bump to prevent water contamination
2. lubricating fuel often
3. lose the dpf and dual egrs, the dpf and its regen can be pointed to being the reason why the pistons crack
4. coolant flush/ replace the coolant with elc, and if too far gone, a new oil cooler, and a coolant filter
5. make sure that the dpf regen hasn't washed out pistons and caused oil dilution
The other parts that fail, i.e sensors etc. fail in all other engines, and arent catastrophic failures
Fact is, the 6.4s rotating assembly, and literally everything except the pistons cracking, (due to dpf and excessive timing) is very stout
The 6.4 is a great powerplant, the Siemens K16 HPFP is a strong pump, but it has issues due to the shitty filters allowing water in. If the team that developed the 6.4 would of had at least another year or so to polish it, I have no doubt that it would be a great powerplant, except for the fact that unlike other engines that where designed with a DPF in mind, the 6.4s DPF was hacked on last minute. If I had the finances available, and I was able to build a 6.4 with the parts I wanted, I would 100% trust it to put in hundreds of thousands of miles hauling. (a lot of money, probably 20k+, which defeats the purpose of buying an older truck)
Watch super duty service .Anthony young blood he does incredible things with 6.4s especially ..and 6.0s too..I own a 6.4 I agree with you alot. We just need to take care of them they'll take care of you back
Yeah its a great motor if you don't ever start it, and replace it asap.
the 6.0s are great also once u move the oil cooler and remover egr,iv got one thats coming up on 300,000 with a tuner on it since it was new
6.4 has the strongest rotating assembly of them all. Rods are pure beef. Block with bed plate is stout. 6.0 is also very stout bottom end. 6.4’s seem to crack pistons more often. They definitely make some serious power. Anthony from superduty service prefers 6.0 over 6.4 for whatever that is worth. He says 6.4 are throwaway engines.
Where do you find replacement 6.4L cylinder heads, I heard Ford/ Navistar quit supplying them.
I live in the interior of BC Canada, and there are TONS of the old 6.9/7.3 IDIs in use. One of my personal vehicles is a 1991 F250 7.3 IDI with 1.34 MILLION kms on the clock. Engines never been apart. With only a 5hp bump in power with a turbo, it's barely worth the effort and extra cost and the extra work to maintain. I know several guys who have the '94 7.3 IDI turbos that have simply removed the turbo units from them and run them as the older 7.3s but with of course the slightly beefier internals. Unfortunately the 7.3 Powerstroke is a GREAT deal more expensive to maintain than the old 7.3 IDIs. For example, a set of injectors is about 10 times the price. One thing with the mechanical injection is that any kind of EM pulse will never affect it. So while every other diesel and newer gas engines would be dead, the IDIs will continue on. It may be underpowered but I love my old 7.3 and I know a lot of other guys do too. Relatively simple and easy to work on and the same goes for cost of parts. A most informative video. Thank you!
I just picked up a 93' 7.3 idi no turbo ..single cab long bed 5 speed from a guy who just got a fused ankle surgery..runs excellent has 240k miles clean in and out.. Looking to drive this until diesel goes away..lol..my buddy has same truck in diff color with 880k on it..still going STRONG..
@@tbobmann229 NICE! Look after those old 7.3s and they'll just about last forever.
My 6.4 deleted PSD has been amazing. With a tuner, it is incredibly powerful and the dual turbo setup will just smoke the dual rear wheels with ease. Just returned from 3600 mi. trip from Oregon and completely around Arizona with a 5K camper, trailer CJ7 Jeep towing on these wide open roads at 75-80 mph. 311,000 miles on truck with a trans change at 270K. 13 mpg., trip easy 19 running empty. I've had a 24V Cummins swap sitting/waiting but I am so amazed at this truck I will probably rebuild.
Go buy a lotto ticket, the 6.4 is one of the worst engines in the history of Ford diesel engines, thats a fact
That MaxxShitter 6.4 will crap on you eventually
@@charlesrodriguez7984 317,000 and towing back and forth over Cascade Mountain range. Haven't found an engine yet that doesn't "eventually" die.
trust me I love the 6.4 anyone who says that the 6.4 is the worst motor ever can hug a root for all I care. Once they are goof proofed they would kill a 7.3 or even a 6.7 .remove the dpf filter like any sane man and you have yourself a very powerful engine. but the way I see it every brand has its problems like how the early 2000's gm trucks would have the brake lines rust and how the early 2000's dodge's would fall apart. so moral of the story is it doesn't matter the brand they all break and they all have issues.
@@DJCuhhhstin956 Now 317,000, no new parts.
After setting for 12yrs I am finally getting my '94 1/4 DI rebuilt with alittle over 240k miles on it. It will be bored@balanced along with '99 intercooler and 3" intake plates @ more. Should have over 400hp. Can't wait - it was rated at 215hp@425ft lbs of torque. 5spd and updated 4407 transfer case. It is a regular cab w/4.10 years 315/75/16 tko tires. Thanks for the video you did an exceptional job-you are a very good speaker and made it interesting and informative.
Great informative video! I Own two 7.3PSDs..one in a 2000 F350 srw 4x4 and one in a 2001 2wd F250. Both over 200K miles with minimal repairs done. My 2006 Dodge 5.9 Cummins stick is also a keeper. Not sure if I'll ever buy a newer light truck diesel as all that added "stuff" scares the crap out of me. My favorite diesel is in my old backhoe, a 1988 Ford 555B. Talk about simplicity and dependability. My old '92 Kubota L4200 tractor is in the same league.
Excellent point about the tacked-on gov't-mandated crapola on recent diesels. Complexity is the enemy of righteousness
I have been driving an 08 6.4 on and off for about 5 years now 180k on it i believe. Its my uncles and he bought it new. From what I was told he put on a straight pipe exhaust and tuner right after he bought it and hasnt had any issues with it at all. Other than the oil pan rusting like crap because it doesnt leak oil and i live in Wisconsin. But that truck is sweet. I wouldnt have thought that people think they are terrible because we havent had any issues with it, and we tow bobcats, tractors, trucks (even a big 26ft box truck once or twice). And it survived my cousin and I beating on it and taking it with a smile. And It been used as a plow truck for at least 10 years.
I was just researching about this a few weeks ago, perfect timing and great video!
Excellent presentation, down to earth simple fun with enough mechanical engineering to make sense. New subscriber.
I was on a stock car team and one of our first tow pigs was a 89ish F350 crew cab with a 6.9 and 5 speed. Awesome truck, super comfortable to ride or drive, but she sure hated pulling a loaded race trailer up and down I-77 through WV.
I have a 04 6.0 f250 that I purchased new. The key is keeping up with the maintenance. Using synthetic oil and motorcraft oil and fuel filters. Motor oil has never been abused like that in the past. Also key is flushing the coolant system and using the correct one. I now have 250k only thing I replaced was alternator and plastic radiator. I replaced radiator with 4 core all aluminum.
Excellent video guy. Former Ford mechanic here. They have had a few disaster engines along the way to be sure. 7.3 excellent. Cheers
The 250 hp 5.9 Cummings TD in my tuna boat ran 6000h without a hitch. Its still going strong. All other US light truck diesels are underbuilt. Owned Citroen and Iveco diesel. The Citroen ran away twice. The first car was a total loss. The replacement..sold it quickly. The Iveco 2.8 in my Santana Land Rover on hard European emission standards..was perfect. The 1500 class of US trucks is light duty and they have been cheapened down. The 2500 class is a hotchpotch of 1500 parts and added complexities.
Great info! Thank you Sir, from the owner (original) of a 2001 7.3L with >300k miles; other than the first 3 cam position sensor failures. I have no complaints. Thank you again.
Thanks for watching! Sorry your 7.3 has had so many can position sensor failures, that’s a strange problem to have.
@@Dustrunnersauto probably the most common problem on the 7.3. Keep an extra one in the glove box with a ratchet and 10 mm and you can pull over and be back on the road in 5 minutes.
Yup, '02 here, same, only 180k on odo.
I just replaced the Cam sensor on my 96 7.3 a couple of weeks ago.
Besides the sensor, haven’t really had much issues with that truck…and I run over 500 HP on my 7.3
@@gorehammer1 agreed. I keep a grey top in each of my trucks.
Just bought a '97 7.3L. I wanted a 1mil+ truck. I like the OBS and still think diesel noise is therapeutic.
Yep. I turn off the radio on my '03 7.3L and listen to her sing on the way to work. 315K miles and what a beautiful voice.
@@zubrickadvisors6742 Couldn't agree more.
I’ve had my 09 f350 srw fx4 for years now and honestly been a great truck. Great video and information.
Great video! I have a 86 6.9 a 90 7.3 idi and a 02 7.3 power stroke have had very little trouble with any of them! Looking at a new 7.3 gas don't think I want that headaches with these new over priced diesels.
Very good video! Amazing how much I didn't know or research when I bought my used 2003 6.0 a few years ago at 195,000 miles. I experienced every nightmare problem a 6.0 could throw at me. $12k worth of bullet-proofing repairs has made it run nicely up to 270,000 miles now, but I'm still jaded and waiting for the next big unwanted event.
Yup, cost me 12k last year for my 6.0l I got new in 2003, but never drove it much. Seems fine now after new heads, studs, turbo, oil cooler, egr cooler, etc.
Sell it now while the market is insane. It will break again
@@BudMasta agreed. The 6.0 is a ticking TIME BOMB
So, our farm has a 6.4 powerstroke, with 247k miles on it. I've done quite a bit of work on it, and when we first got it a few years ago (from an oilfield outfit, so yeah, it was a fleet truck) the DPF ended up destroying both turbos. We were told to have the DPF and EGR deleted, but we screwed around to long.
Now after that whole debacle, the only major issue we've had with it is the stupid back pressure sensor. Finally got that fixed recently. Runs like a top, no joke.
I'm not gonna say the 6.4 is good, because I think we got lucky compared to other 6.4 owners. Our case is definitely the exception and not the rule. But you know what? When it runs right, it pulls like a champ.
Just thought I'd share my experience, do with that information what you wish.
EDIT: Knock on wood
I have a 2008 6.4 with 295,xxx miles. I’ve replaced the alternator 3 times and the tensioner twice. I think the most important thing with the 6.4 is changing the oil and fuel filters.
I have 140K on my deleted 08 6.4 with tuner it runs great with a full 5” exhaust.
When 6.4s run good they absolutely stomp the competition. Both the 6.0 and 6.4 could have been great engines.
Awesome review of my pain! I for one don't think FORD suffered enough as I have every problem with the 6.0 Liter and had to fix under my dime. Way to support you customer Ford
what happened to International Harvester in 1986 was the tractor division and truck division split due to a deal finalized two years prior. The truck division became Navistar International, while the farm equipment division went to Tenneco, who owned case, and proceeded to merge the two, creating Case IH.
Love listening to the story!! I love diesel engines and their history. Great content man!!!
The TIDI in 1993-1994 is very similar to the NA version, except for the fact that they beefed up the block a tad, better rods & wrist pins, & the TIDI block in 1993-1994 has a different block number.
While that block can hold more power it’s rly hard to get parts for a TIDI cuz they only made the block from 1993-1994.
1994 was the one year where you could have a NA idi, TIDI, or a DI 1st gen 7.3 Powerstroke w the new HEUI electronic injection.
Bought mine used in 2017, agreed the trouble w egr cooler and regen that embarrassed w the blue smoke. Latest wrench and finally the CEL code p0088 has been for about a year. Somehow after I fixed the 4wd malfunction, a blown fuse, the light hasn’t come back. That’s about 500 miles now. Still love the truck, my first and probably last diesel truck I ever own.
As a less than proud former owner of a 2003 Ford Excursion diesel with a 6.0 this explains a lot. Now I pull with a RAM 2500 Cummins. Great video.
Love my 6.4. Daily driver, deleted bought with 161, just rolled over 300k. Good many of them on the road locally also.
We have 205,000 miles on our 2009 6.4 and never had one problem
I actually just recently traded my 6.4 in at 280k. Purchased at 34k.
As far as engine work goes, I did regular maintenance, had to replace an exhaust gas temp sensor at 190k or so. Other problems were all chassis wearable components.
Overall good experience. Though it got a little hairy toward the end.
I'm glad to here that, I have a 6.4 and people are always telling me to sell it
@@user-jr5bg4ov8j they built a bunch of lemons and a few good ones made it out the doors lol good go fast trucks tho and hands down my favorite looking and driving close 2ed goes to the new design tho.
I have a 08 450 w/ 6.4. Deleted egr, cat and dpf at 90,000 and upgraded the radiator and support bar from Mishimoto. Doubled my mpg and hp, fantastic puller and crazy power. Also have a 2000, 7.3. Can't beat the 7.3.
@@kirktown830 I can't find ANYONE to help me with an egr delete anymore, don't know where I can go to bullet proof this thing
Our 6.0 service trucks had cooling system cavitation that made holes in the front cover and put coolant into the oil. Multiple front housings replaced until the trucks were replaced.
Thanks for the info and your time
I had a 6.0 and now a 7.3. A picture of the 6.0 is engrained in my head. The 7.3 could look like a watermelon but how would I know the hood never has to come up.
Great analogy
There was no question I needed to remove the DPF/EGR on my 6.4
Excellent information . Thanks!
My first diesel pickup was a 1994 Ford F350 with a Power Stroke 7.3. It ran good, 4.10 gears and 5 speed trans. At the time I lived near Edwards AFB in the town of Rosamond. I drove over to Las Vegas to pick up a car I'd bought, a Ford Mustang and towing it home into California there are 2 big grades to pull up over before you get to Baker. I was down to 3rd gear doing about 35 mph over in the slow lane and was being passed by semis going up the grade. My wife and I had also gone on a 4900 mile trip to visit relatives in Illinois and Wisconsin then back across the states to Yellowstone and down the 15 from Utah, towing a 30'toyhauler, our apartment on wheels. I was pretty amazed other than the lack of power because it got 12.7 mpg average for the trip. I started looking around and found a 2001 dodge with the 5.9 Cummins, with a manual transmission and a couple of years later we did almost exactly the same trip but I was able to maintain the speed limits on grades and got exactly the same 12.7 mpg. My dodge is not fast compared to newer trucks and maybe not compared to the same year Ford trucks but I would never go back. I still drive the Dodge and enjoy it to this day 20 years later. I'm going to drive it till I can't get my foot up to the clutch pedal... LOL
I had a 86 f350 with the 6.9. To increase power I added a Banks turbo. It did increase the power, but it also blew head gaskets, which was a 11 hour job to replace because the turbo was wedged up against the firewall. In 92 I gave up and bought a Dodge with the 12 valve Cummins. Not much more power, but I drove it half a million miles without any major problem.
To be fair, that's not the 6.9s fault you turboed it without doing necessary work to bulletproof it.
@@bldontmatter5319 In 1986, nobody knew what bullet proofing was.
Good video... covers a lot of major stuff over decades. Three points I would make: 1. Navistar not only torpedoed Ford's Powerstroke program with the 6.0 and 6.4 liter engines... They also destroyed much of their own reputation in the lower end of medium duty trucks and school bus chassis. 2. Ford decided to bail on the Navistar relationship when the next round of EPA emission standards emerged (2007 ish?) effective 2011. 3. Ford did NOT have the talent inhouse to do a new design for the 6.7 liter engine... The heavy lifting was done by AVL, a well-respected Austrian diesel engine design consultancy that was well paid and expected to remain anonymously in the shadows as their customer, ran victory laps trade show after trade show.
Post 2011, it became clear that Navistar's top engineers and the corporate leadership who believed them, TOTALLY blew the adoption of SCR as the solution to diesel Nox emissions. Sad.
I didn’t know about AVL, thank you for that!
I always wondered how Ford managed to build such a great motor seemingly all on their own with virtually no previous experience.
I remember in the late oughts Navistar touting their "Advanced EGR", or whatever they called it, as a "solution" to the upcoming stricter NOx standards. They were so smug about it back then as if they were smarter than everyone else, but it didn't take a genius to see the disastrous road they were headed down. The VW dieselgate scandal a few years later made me wonder if there had been any connection or technology sharing between the two companies.
I've had a lot of problems with my 6.0L. Spent a lot of money after heads lifted, which included a bulletproof EGR, head studs, and a new oil cooler. New oil cooler was plugged up in less than a year. I changed it out again 6 months ago, so far so good, oil/coolant temps are within 2-5 degrees of each other. I did use Cat ELC coolant... I'm pretty sure the Ford Gold coolant is garbage that can't stand up to the high EGR temps and caused a lot of the issues that 6.0's have been infamous for.
edit: The truck is at 245k miles. If you're near 200k miles with it, and it doesn't have head studs, get them installed.
I had an F250 Harley Edition truck with a 6.0. Claiming the 6.0 had EGR problems is very understated. I had 2 EGR valves replaced under warranty, replaced one myself with an aftermarket one, then finally I completely surrendered and deleted the EGR entirely. I did get 175K miles out of the truck but the problems were frustrating. A lot of the issues had to do with the wiring. The wiring harnesses were cramped so tightly between things and on hot things that there were always problems. Half the fuses in the fuse boxes were improperly inserted from new. The high pressure oil sensor on the valve cover had a bad connection from being put aside of the bayonet rather than on it. It took 5 trips to the dealer, getting stuck on the side of the road a lot during the 1st two years before I accidently discovered the problem as I sat on the side of the road with a feeble running engine that was unable to drive the truck. I picked up a stick on the side of the road and started poking stuff. I found the high pressure oil switch issue, fixed it, and solved that problem. When diesel fuel was reformulated in 2007 my fuel mileage dropped from 24 mpg on the highway to 19 mpg. The new diesel might be putting out less pollution per gallon but does it still surpass the pollution per tank of gas where it cut MPG by 5 miles? I doubt it. It also made the fuel much more expensive. Another odd issue I had with that truck was the air filter, which is about the size of a duffle bag, was position where rain would soak the filter as I drove it. One of the times I changed it half the filter was frozen solid with ice. Dang thing weighed 45 lbs.
I had an '08 F-250 w/ 6.4L PS that I put 130K miles on. Knowing the weaknesses of the 6.4L, I religiously changed oil every 5k (15W-40 full synth), used a fuel lube (Diesel Kleen), and kept track of the coolant chemistry.
Not a single thing went wrong with the engine in the 13 years I owned it.
Never owned a 6.4L myself, but it sounds like you got lucky. I almost never hear anyone say anything nice about the 6.4L. The 6.0L gets dumped on a lot but people say if you ''bulletproof'' the 6.0L's they are great engines while on the other hand the consensus with the 6.4L is that its just the kind of engine you run it for what its worth until it burns out and then swap something better in.
@@nathanmcdonald610 the 6.4 is a better version of the 6.0, theoretically you can make more reliable power out of a 6.4 than a 6.0. I think the reason the 6.0 is more popular is because it was out for longer, while the 6.4 only had two years. The 6.4 is a basically a common rail 6.0, if you delete all the emissions garage and go from compounds to a single turbo, you have a pretty decent engine.
@@NP-rh3dt so basically kill the environment
@@GiordanDiodato I'm guessing you don't know much about diesel emissions systems. They have filters in the exhaust, called a DPF or Diesel Particulate Filter. Over time that filter will get full of soot and get clogged. The engine will then go into a regen mode, which sprays fuel into the cylinders on the exhaust stroke. This causes the exhaust gas temperature, or EGT, to spike. All the soot caught up in the DPF gets turned to ash and goes into the atmosphere. So all the emissions systems does is turn the soot into ash and it goes into the environment anyways. You're not really ruining the environment any more than you already would be. Could actually be less because a properly tuned diesel will make next to no soot unless your floor it under low boost.
@@NP-rh3dt The regen cycle on the 6.4L is what baked the turbo. All that super-heated EG during would get cycled into the turbo. If you deleted the emissions, the twin turbo was a reliable workhorse.
I bought a Ford Excursion new with the 6 liter. Major headache but the worst part was how Ford treated me. Last Ford anyone in my family had owned. Even though the vehicle left me on the side of the road six (6) time in the first year the Ford factory representative told me there was nothing was wrong with that car. I now drives Cummins.
we need another diesel suv on the market
My grandparents had a 05 6.0 excursion and it wasn't too bad tbh although it did in the end, end up costing my grandfather 9k about 2 years ago before he sold it but I never got stranded on the side of the road even when it had its issues idk how it survived how long it did but it did and now honestly I'm a fan of 6.0s just cause I actually know of one that hasn't had any issues and it's definitely alot of fun
I had the 6.9 in a Ford Cutaway van. Great motor for what it was needed for. The biggest issue was cold starts in the winter.
Last new vehicle I bought was a 95 F250 with the 7.3. Loved it! I'm running 2 7.3's now, one my daily driver and the other hauls freight with a gooseneck trailer. It's got a 7.3 from a wreck as a temporary engine while I rebuild one. The "temporary" 7.3 runs great! Oh, and you pronounce SOOT (so͝ot) with the same oo sound as in BOOK (bo͝ok).
Ive had two 7.3 PSD and the common ish had always been the cam position sensors.
What people don't understand about the 6.0 PSD is that the reason it had so many issues was because of how Ford tuned the engine. In medium duty trucks the VT365 was max tuned to only 275 hp and had plenty of air to keep it cool. In the Ford pickup, the engine compartment is cramped with bad airflow. Combine that with the reduction in head bolt count ( 4 instead of 6 like the 7.3 ), then the hot factory tune equals bang. Ford knew that they were pushing the 6.0s and 6.4s too hard and part of the agreement with Navistar was that they would purchase these engines with no warranty. To think a whole cottage industry had been developed to fix the problems says a lot.
Yea Ford wanted more power than what Navistar wanted to output with the 6.0 Powerstroke.
That’s true but there is more issues than the tuning. Oil coolers and EGR coolers that have been replaced could be stacked to the moon. I’ve seen a number of trucks going past 200K with stock head bolts. I believe the oil cooler and egr cooler issues really crippled these engines
@@Bacongrease00 The Head Bolts are not bad. However, when you add 150hp, that's when the Head Bolts should be changed.
@@borla4491 I agree I believe a failing EGR cooler caused a lot bad gaskets and stretched bolts
Incorrect. After owning exclusively International buses for a number of years (except for a short run of Ford busses with 5.9 12 valve Cummins) nearly trouble free with Navistar DT360's, DT466's, and T444E's (7.3 Powerstroke) the bus contractor for my county tried the new VT365 (6.0 Powerstroke) and had the same exact issues with every one of them that the light duty truck owners were having. They had to delay auctioning off the T444E buses and pull them out of retirement to fill the gaps from the VT365 buses being out of service so much. Our county completely abandoned International buses after that fiasco and now run exclusively Freightliner buses with the 6.7 Cummins. So blaming Ford for Navistar's poor design of the 6.0 and 6.4 is incorrect. Navistar stopped building engines because the 6.0, 6.4, and Maxxforce engines nearly bankrupted them and Ford carried on building their own 6.7 Powerstroke that has turned out to be one of the best diesels on the market today. Navistar used to build some great engines but they lost their way when the government slapped the heavy emissions regulations on diesel engines.
With the aisin and Cummins combination you don't even need to go duramax to get a very good heavy duty auto.
Few people talk about the 7.3 DI Powerstroke in the 94-97. Other than ride quality, I love mine. 96 F350 CC 4x4 Dually. Right there in the Avatar. 9ft Western with Pile Driver wings to total 11ft of snow plow. I replaced the flywheel and entire clutch at 98000 because the pressure plate was stiff from sitting so much. Today it has 126xxx miles on it. I use it maybe 2 to 3000 a year. The flat bed is fairly rotten but the cab is firm and straight without rot. It would take a pretty good $$$ to let it go.
I own a 2006 f250 with the 6.0, 240,000 miles.
First thing to go out.
The Ficm.
They super glued two 1/4"x1/4" micro chips to the board.
Cleaned the board and soldered them in.
Fuel injectors went next.
Poured in some archoil.
Worked for a little while.
Replaced all the injectors finally.
Then the heating up off the oil and water started.
Had the bullet proofing done including radiator and was still heating up going up steep hills.
Got rid of the factory electric fan clutch and installed a 7.3 Manuel fan clutch with adapter.
Now it seems ok.
Runs like a champ.
I owned 2 different 6.0 vehicles and one was an okay vehicle was an 06 engine build the 2003.5 year engine was complete junk! I had a 7.3 and selling it was the worst mistake I ever made
What problems happen to your 6.0?
The Email where do I start? 😂 bulletproofed it then 6 months later head studs went cracked the Block in 4 places, 2 hpop went bad, 2 egr valves, turbo pinion, all injectors replaced twice and other things but those were the main common issues that these motors are known for having issues with. It was a nightmare
@@clydesmith8285
Have 3 04’s f350 with 6.0 still running strong for construction & plowing snow etc.bullet proofed all of them (No tunes needed to keep them running great . 250,000 350,000 362,500 miles on them currently
2 a little rusty and 1 mint like new .
Fantastic reliability and plenty of power to get the job done.
Maintenance is key for me & I keep on trucking down the road
Glenn Lienhop I am sure that’s the case for you. I bought the vehicle used so I can’t speak to what the maintenance was like before me but I know I did everything that was needed and more when I owned it. I am sure some of the motors are still running strong but they gained this bad reputation for a reason. It was a terrible design with the EGR valve system. Glad you have good luck with yours… keep on truckin
@@clydesmith8285
Thanks for your response. I bought them all used knowing their week points and addressed them before failures. Got great deals on all of them because of the common failures and scary stories. I made sure they were never used as race cars & sale complete
Got a mustang Cobra for that purpose and don’t run the trucks with tunes
I love my 7.3 IDI. yes it falls on its face when going up hill, but it will last forever and there is a value in that. although at some point I will probably increase the boost on the turbo to give it a little more power. but the IDI is a great motor in my opinion.
Only thing I disliked on my 2002 7.3 psd is the front leaf spring suspension, replaced them with Icon full progressive leaf springs along with bilstein reservoir shocks and am much happier with the ride quality, although I’d still like to someday do a coil over conversion as the turn radius is still less than ideal.
My dad got the 6.9idi in his 84 and since he was an IH mechanic for 21 years he had first hand knowledge of it and the old rosamaster pump and from day 2 it made way more power than the factory intension and had to hang extra weight under the rear not only to keep the tires from spinning but also to stop the rear tires from sliding due to a poor front to rear braking due to the piss poor vacuum pump setup and the break equalizer valve.
The first Ford pickup diesel was for the 1983 model year, available in late 1982. It was a 6.9 liter engine.
Had the first one delivered to Virginia in November of 82.. didn't have the book for the diesel engine in it...
My neighbor had one loaded down with tool boxes as a service truck, zero to 55 in like two minutes!
Actually in 1977-78 ford had a dealer installed option of the 3.9 or 4bt Cummins..and could be had in a f150 with a 5.0 /manual or auto trans
Not quite ..... The First Ford Pickup offered with a Diesel is the 69 F100/50 with the 3.3L Perkins.
what kills me is the 6.4 portion... says “costs thousands extra to remove the cab” which is insane but true. dealership rapes people to pull the cab and pays the tech i believe 6 hours give or take(been a minute since i’ve done one on flat rate on a 6.4) but regardless i can have the truck pulled in my bay everything disconnected and the cab in the air in 45mins give or take 10-15 minutes depending on how the truck is optioned. fewer bells and whistles can be removed a few minutes faster. 6.0’s are still pretty quick to pull the cab on, only flaw is the cab bolts going down through the cab where the 6.4 cab bolts come from below and are easier to get off until you spin one!
6.4 cab was made to come off, it takes us about 20-40 minutes to have one in the air. Your smaller shops wont rape you like book people will and with that I dont think book time for taking a cab off is 6 hours anymore
The fix for that is to distch the V8 diesel for an inline 6, I don't know why ford and GM stick with the V8 platform.
What even further is how many jobs are claimed to be impossible with the cab ON. Most engine related projects can be completed as such.
@@richardsb3606 why the 6.7 has proven itself and so did the 7.3. Cummins suffer from alot of issues as well. Ford just takes a bad rep for Navistar screwing them over
@@07slowbalt No doubt the 6.7 has proven it's self and so did the 7.3, but from a service & maintenance stand point the V8 platform sucks wether it be the Duramax or Powerstroke.
I work as a fleet mechanic for a public utility. The majority of our fleet is F550 diesels while our larger trucks are Internationals.
I can testify to all of what you said about the Powerstroke evolution from the 7.3 to the current 6.7. Of all, I would probably say the 6.0 was my biggest nightmare. I can’t begin to count the number of 6.0 engines I had to replace because of EGR cooler failure. Ford refused to offer any kind of warranty assistance to us by arguing our trucks were too heavy for the 6.0 liter’s design intention.
In your video you pointed out that cab removal made many repairs on the 6.4 easier. That is true when you can remove the cab. But many of our trucks either have a boom hanging over the cab or a rack. When the engine is dead, repairs have to be made with the cab on. Again, I have lost count of the number of turbos and high pressure pumps I have done with the cab on. My back can attest to that.
But let me add that Navistar’s MaxxForce series used in their medium and large trucks hasn’t been any more dependable. While the base engine is fairly reliable, the EGR cooling and the high pressure oil driven fuel injection systems are a nightmare. All I can say is I am thankful that beginning in 2020 our International fleet is powered by Cummins. But we still have a lot of MaxxForce powered trucks in use. By the time I retire in 6 years most of those will be phased out.
Thank you for your video. People get a good look of what I deal with every day at work.
Thank you, I know what to buy and walk away from. I owned a 2001 7.3 and lived that truck, my only compliant was fuel economy. But that engine never let me down.
My 6.0 was built day 4 of production on that engine (November 2002). In 2016 my wife and I spent $3000 in parts and spent 4 days turning wrenches to fix the design flaws and do some needed maintenance. The main thing was resolving the coolant flow issue to the EGR cooler. The problem is caused by the factory oil cooler clogging with casting sand and coolant sludge (we didn't have much of a sludge issue because we flushed and replaced the coolant as we were supposed to, unlike most other owners). We now have an external oil cooler mounted between the air conditioning condenser and the radiator. We also installed a better EGR cooler at the same time and we no longer have issues with the EGR valve clogging up. While we had the turbo off, we did something Ford says you can't do. We took it apart, cleaned it to remove any corrosion, and lubricated it with nickel antiseze. This has eliminated issues with the unison ring sticking. We are on our original head gaskets. The issue there is people having them retuned to increase the turbo boost for no other reason than to stroke their male ego. We used to tow a 32 ft fifth wheel camping trailer in the mountains and it never lacked for horsepower.
That said, we do have injector issues, which I mostly lay at the EPAs feet. The injectors were designed when we were using low sulfur diesel fuel and that is what was available for about a year after we bought the truck. Then the EPA forced ultra low diesel fuel on us. The sulfur was required for lubrication of the fuel system, especially the injectors. After some of our injectors being replaced 3 times (twice under warranty), we use a fuel additive with every fill up to provide the necessary lubrication.
I have a big issue with Ford. When their products have design flaws, they institute band aid solutions to get them through their warranty period, and then leave their customers holding the bag. I have driven Ford products exclusively for over 40 years, having purchased 6 of them brand new. I am done with Ford. I will never buy another Ford product again (not that anyone at Ford really cares).
"products have design flaws, they institute band aid solutions to get them through their warranty" **whew** I was done with ford with a used one, surprised you went back for more! heh,
I own a Ranger what a epic piece of junk the 4.0l engine is. the body and frame are great the 4 cyls and the 3.0l (3.slow) are better engines.
@@crazeguy26 The first Ford I bought was an 86 Ranger 4x4 with 2.3 litre 4 cylinder (first year of fuel injection on the 2.3 Rangers) and 5 speed transmission. It is now on its second owner, but still on the road. It had one design flaw in the steering which was addressed by Moog, but there is a design flaw in the electronic ignition that exists to this day. About every 4 or 5 years it will stop running and has to be towed in to have a part in the distributor replaced. The Ford that had the least problem for me was a 2005 Ranger with the 4.0 and an automatic. But who knows how long it would have gone . . . my daughter totalled it right before Christmas 2013 with just 72K miles on it.
They do care. They made the 6.7 which is an incredible engine
@@whiterosemotors9026 And after they built the 6.7 they built my 2014 escape with design flaws they applied band aids to. Ford can build some incredible products, but when they have design flaws they don't stand behind them. If they really cared about long term customers, they would not behave that way. Instead they rely on disgruntled GMC or Ram customers to backfill for the disgruntled customers they lose to GMC and Ram.
These engines worked very well with minor problems in non-emissions compliant engines. Ford adding all the emmisions restrictions is what killed those later motors.
The emissions equipment causes problems in every Diesel engine it’s ridiculous. After all these years and we’re still having to pour diesel exhaust fluid in trucks.
You say that like Ford had a choice, Without all of that emission bullshit they wouldn't have been legally allowed to sell the engines, anyway I think its a shallow excuse at best to blame Ford for putting emission control equipment on it because they have since proven that they can build their own diesel much better than what Navistar supplied them with. I honestly blame Navistar more than Ford, Navistar knew just as well as anyone that these engines needed to be emission compliant for mass production use in Ford pickups, what is their excuse for building an engine that turns into a big heap of shit when emissions are applied to it?
@@nathanmcdonald610 the contract was to provide nonemission engines and ford was resposible for adding and designing the emmision bolt on parts. None of those have navistar part numbers just ford part #s. So the blame once again comes back to ford using the average Joe to find the weak point in their design. If ford was so great on their design of the 6.7 why are the first 2 years of production known to shread turbo bearings through out the combustion cycle and destroying every single part of the engine in the process. I have owned a 2003 7.3 that would pull the dark out of the night and it never put me o the side of the road or cost me $10,000 in dpf or fuel system repairs.
@@huckelberryauditor5583 First of all, thanks for responding respectfully, its uncommon to meet people and have ''civil disagreements'' online in my experience. Secondly though, the 6.7L isn't perfect, but neither is the Cummins, Duramax or even the old and revered 7.3L PS. But I personally feel as though its a bit of strawman to complain about the 6.7L ''or any engine'' that's 12 years deep into production having problems in its first 2 years. There is always bugs and oversights that need to be corrected the first model year or two with essentially any new product from any of the manufactures, even if the first 2 years of the 6.7L had some issues, I think it is safe to say to that the 6.7L is by all intents and purposes a great engine now and has been for the previous 10 years at least.
No matter what though we are never ever going back to pre smog emission diesels like the 7.3L, those days are gone so the best thing to do is to continue to engineer and develop diesel engines that are emission compliant AND reliable. In my honest opinion though, modern diesels just aren't worth it. They are extreme overkill for most of what anyone should be towing/hauling with a pickup, lets face it, no one NEEDS nearly 500hp 1000ft/lb's+ of torque in a pickup, then you have to consider the 10K/12K upcharge premium to upgrade from the best gas engine to the diesel and then you have DEF and all of that headache. The new Ford 7.3L gas is the most intriguing heavy duty pickup engine made in the past 20 years to me. It makes about the same peak torque as the old 7.3L Powerstroke and WAAAYYYY more horsepower which all is only complimented by the far superior transmission its hooked up to.
@@nathanmcdonald610 my only problem has been Ford has used the million + customers as their research and development team for 20 years now. I don’t like it but that’s what every manufacturer is doing these days. It used to be company’s would spend some of that profit they made on research and development. Those days seem to be a bygone era.
I have a 2008 6.4 f450 with 350k miles. Did a full delete and studs. Only thing had to replace was hpfp. Motor cranks over 50 pounds of boost and loves it even when pulling 34' trailer with a 10 ton telehandler behind it. It's doing proper scheduled maintenance and that motor is awesome.
The EGR valve on my 6.0 had three suits in it!! 😂 Dude this information is great
Navistar engine / 6.4L 2008 thru 2010 was their "Max Force 7" used (without issues) in commercial vehicles. The Ford engineers had designed a means of meeting EPA regulations and was what killed the 6.4's. Fords "regeneration design" introduced raw diesel in #7 & #8 cylinders on the exhaust stroke caused residual raw diesel to get past the rings gravitating down into the crankcase thus diluting the oil burning up the main bearings! Ford claimed long oil change intervals (5 to 7k miles instead of 3k). Main bearing failure usually was around 85k +. Once Navistar investigated and identified many of these failures were due to lack of lubrication causing main bearing failures from diesel in the crankcase (Ford engineering fault!) Navistar did not accept responsibility/fault. Another cause of issues with 6.0 and 6.4's is the fact that majority of owners did not do the required maintenance (coolant flush every 2-3 years just to name a huge one!). Once I learned the causes of the 6.4L problems (information from a certified Ford mechanic/ in 2009-2010, my 2008 only had 32k miles on it and I personally removed the problem areas and perform the routine maintenance. I now have 180k miles and absolutely love my 2008 Ford 6.4L Powerstroke. Manufacturers engineering design for meeting EPA regulations is killing diesel engines since the 7.3L! And is no doubt the reason Ford stopped using the "regeneration DPF design" and started copying Chevrolet/GMC which used Urea system (Once Navistar educated Fords design engineers as to the cause of the failures). International Harvester has been building engines since the 1920's I think!
That sums it up!!! Great job. Couldn’t have said it any better. I loved my 6.4L . Get the stuff done. Lubricate the fuel. Do proper maintenance. Good to go on stock head bolts.
I'd love to read the source of your information that it was all Ford's fault. Maxxforce was just as troublesome if not more so and caused operators to lose confidence in the Navistar brand nearly bankrupting the company and effectively ending Navistar engine production.
I knew that there would be major problems when Ford went from the largest Diesel engine to the smallest of the big three.
It's strange to me when companies do this. Every company has too. I recall when the LA series 318 and 3.9 were replaced with the 4.7 and 3.7. Warranty claims were through the roof so much so Dodge was offering free Hemi upgrades on the Ram. They were no more efficient and made the same power.
Great information . Thank you
For everyone saying that the EPA killed these engines, you are partially correct, but there are a ton of high mile 07 and up Cummins and Duramax trucks on the road that were never deleted. I'm driving one.
A lot of these engines are totally reliable in stock form and just need basic maintenance. The issues seem to come up most often when power is increased.
Seriously I'm driving a beautiful 6.4 right now dpf regents every few hundred miles or so I take it out on the highway open it up and that's it.6.4 owners check your primary belt tensioners they go alot on these trucks as well..cetane boost should be in every tank or every other..oil should be checked and watched for growth..change before 5000 I recommend 3000 to 5000 .those rocker arms need alot of clean oil all the time
Chevy/GMC and Dodge design engineers for the emissions equipment came up with a much better design than the Ford engineers. And following the manufacturer maintenance schedule is key for longevity.
I see a lot of new 3/4 & 1 ton trucks on the road with gas engines. I guess people don’t want to deal with high cost of maintenance on these new diesels with all their emissions equipment
@@Brandon68plus1 Yes indeed! When it comes time to let my Duramax go (337,000 now) im going with an F-350 with the Godzilla 7.3. The EPA is killing the US diesel market in my opinion.
Agree, the 7.3 is the best with the 6.7 coming in a very close 2nd.
My 2008 hasn’t had a lick of trouble, now granted it’s only got 87,000 miles on it. I bought it to tote my Lance camper and I usually tow my bike and trailer or my Sea Doo , probably around 5,000 lbs total. Only thing I had trouble with was having the exhaust filter cleaned twice until I bought an after market one that works awesome. That’s my story…👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Pretty good i liked the information. I had a 6.9 and 7.3 now a 6.7
I've often wondered why ford never offered Cat and Cummins engine options in the f250-350 like they did in the f450 and larger trucks, those would have been a better choice than the 6.0/6.4. The 6.9/7.3 idi were great engines reliable and strong especially with an aftermarket turbo setup, between the two I've personally owned 156 idi diesel pickups and never had a super big issue with either. 7.3 power stroke was also great and the biggest issue I've had is the wiring that goes through the valve cover gaskets shorting out or leaking oil. Now granted I've only owned like 5 I've not had a lot of trouble with one. The 6.0 I've only ever owned one and it was never any problem either other than the unison ring on the turbo sooting up and sticking leaving it with no boost and barely enough power to get out of its own way. I have also worked on a lot of them for other people and I can tell you the main issue had to be either severe lack of training for the mechanics trying to repair them or they just were not that smart. I'm old skool and have mainly worked with gas engines from the 70's but working on a 6.0 is not all that difficult or expensive if you apply just a little common sense.
ford used to have stock in cummins (mid 60s I think) now that wouldve been a possibility had ford kept their stock, and im sure the deal with international was for only their light duty diesels and not their medium/heavy duty.
You’ve owned 156 IDI trucks?? Wtf bro
@@liammoodyfilms I've worked part time at a few different junkyards and every time one that was decent came in I'd pick it up. I've had a few really nice ones but I've had some that were only a vehicle in the loosest possible description. Most got fixed up mechanically and then sold. I guess you could just say I like old idi trucks a little bit more than your average Joe!
Must be ziptiesnbiasedplies brother or cousin...or relation somehow lmao
@@dieselbronco9247 I’m getting ready to pick up my second IDI- it’s a 7.3 plant in an 86 body extended cab for $900
I may be mistaken but I remember seeing an article back in 2010-2011 saying Ford had acquired most of the Light duty (powerstroke) R&D Staff from Navistar to develop the 6.7L.
Not saying you're wrong, but that would seem counter-intuitive. Why would Ford hire the folks responsible for two consecutive toilets? If you read that Ford hired a few dozen experienced diesel designers/builders from Europe and Asia, I would be inclined to believe that more.
@@ohger1 it was because ford didn’t have anyone with light duty diesel experience at the time, Navistar had good engineers, but having good engineers and hamstringing them with poor project management is a great way to ruin something.
Extremely well done. 👌
Thanks for all of your knowledge!
Thanks for watching!
I hate to be the one to do it but, in the 6.0’s defense it can be made to be a very reliable engine if you don’t mind sinking some money into it. The 6.4 is a lost cause but, not so much the 6.0.
I had an '06, unplugged EGR from day 1, ignored the light, hooked it back up & cleared codes at 99K for the STC recall, studded 1 at a time by myself at 110K, then all the speed mods came a little at a time. EGR delete, tunes, FASS, 205 injectors, Turbonetics 66MM turbo, exhaust, FS2500 filter, you name it. Had 256K when I had to sell it for a dually. It towed hard, was fairly quick at the track & left me stranded 1 time in the 8 years I owned it for the FICM. 1 time! Unreliable? NOPE!
If you look at the amount of recalls, TSB's and lawsuits, then the 6.0 was actually a far more problematic engine than a 6.4 I found this info directly from diesel engine builder books. The 6.4 also had the odds stacked against it in a few aspects. The emission system was completely new to ford and untested. When you compare that to a 6.0 or 7.3 that never had to withstand such abuse its easy to see why the durability was different. The 6.4 platform was able to push twice the boost capabilities of previous platforms, increasing back pressure and further straining it. Not to mention that this engine could be equipped with a exhaust, intake and tune, more than doubling its power to the wheels. This is unheard of the diesel world and people were quick to do this. Driven by the increased popularity of diesel at the time many of these trucks were run very hard. I dont think they were given a fair chance
The 6.4 greatly improved some things but introduced a few new problems. The head gasket problem was fixed by thicker head bolts. And the cooling system capacity was improved. Many of the 6.4 problems were exaggerated by the fact that Labor costs were much GREATER for any given repair. The EGR valves were greatly improved. But when they failed, replacing them was a nightmare because they often got stuck in the intake. The cooling system was a NEW problem. The OE thermostats were prone to high failure rates and take out the radiator in the process. Cavitation was a problem as well which would destroy Radiators and even the front engine cover which would cause oil and coolant mixing. Coolant hose leaks were common. When the coolant got low, the horizontal EGR cooler would rupture. And sometimes it would cause the engine to hydro lock and destroy itself. A simple hose replacement , redesigned thermostat, and the installation of a simple one way valve solved that problem.But only after many had already ruined engines or had repeated radiator failures. Radiator replacement was a nightmare compared to the 6.0.
Another problem was oil dilution caused by leaking high pressure pumps and/or leaking injectors. The problem was that it was very difficult to isolate the cause because it was all internal. This would cause the crankcase to overfill and would destroy pistons and cylinder walls. Failed PARTICULATE filters caused the engines to remain in regeneration too long and would dilute the oil over time as well. This would cause rocker arm failure and premature secondary turbocharger failure. High pressure fuel pump and turbo replacement required cab removal.
Ford solved most of these problems with relatively simple fixes and software updates,. Some of the software updates would cause the engine to derate and give early warnings that would prevent further damage. But they were only introduced AFTER many engines had already failed. And some customers also never had the software updates done in a timely manner. If you got one AFTER the various updates were performed, the engine became very reliable compared to the 6.0. But when a problem did occur labor costs were high due to having to remove the cab for many repairs. So they still have a bad reputation because of the fact that The problems weren’t solved until after the fact.
You can make a 6.0 bullet proof, there's no possible way of doing the same for a 6.4.
@@matthewbunn5145 not on your budget
@@matthewbunn5145 Why not? They’re basically the same design other than the fuel injection system. Also, the head bolts are ALREADY thicker and less likely to stretch. But studs are available to add even more clamping strength.
The 6.4 will go about 130k and start having metal in it's oil pan. Where's that coming from and please don't say lack of maintenance
I own a 2006 6.0 international F-350 truck. Have not had any engine problems. Changed the EGR valve once and two injections. Truck has 238k miles. I’m very happy with my truck and wouldn’t change it for the world.
It's amazing to me how many good to Ok designs have been utterly sabotaged by bean-counters. Take the Olds V8 diesel. That can be a quite good diesel engine. I know the 6.0 PS was an existing industrial engine that was never designed for a consumer level application. It was modified from an industrial engine already in use and was stressed beyond it's original design envelope by forcing it to meet a 300hp output and cleaner emission standards. One way to meet those emission standards was to raise the thermostat opening temp to get the engine to run hotter. The hotter engine fatigued the head bolts, etc.
The 6.0l in the international trucks didn't have the problems Ford had. The problems came from the emissions components that had to be used to meet EPA standards.
No. Fords decision to not follow the Navistar builder book recommendations are the principle root cause of the issues with the 6.0.
The had been violating those recommendations before and they continue to do it now.
If they had followed simple things like the coolant filter to catch the left over casting sand, much of their issues would never have come to pass in the stock configuration…
@@n3ymy630 partly agree, we sat in the room with Navistar engineers, on another problem, but the big complaint was the technicians were not properly trained to service the engine. That and the emissions, plus oil filters that the aftermarket supplied that did not meet Navistar specifications for flow. Plus Siemens could not properly machine the injectors to Navistar specifications. Plus Ford ended up investing money to help solve a couple problems, at the Navistar foundry. I always thought, "it was the classic case, too many cooks spoil the soup"
Good Stuff, Great Tips😄👍🏿
Thank you so much for this very interesting information about Diesel Engine development
On smaller customer based trucks. Not commercial heavy duty Diesel class 8 Big Trucks.