@@Miksy51Depends on the continuity or at times, personal takes. In Z and initial writing, Kakarot was sent to Earth to destroy it due to his low power level. In the Dragon Ball Super manga, he was sent to Earth to escape the destruction of Planet Vegeta.
@jhtoxic7870 I never read minus but when I read that passage in the super manga to me it felt like bardok's intent was for goku/kakarot to evade the destruction of the planet BUT the conquering of earth was implied
@ can you believe death battle thought this bullzhit? I never watch or follow death battle cuz they are marks whom get everything wrong but like the Vatican, are very popular so that hides their hideous flaws from casual fools but someone told me the most recent take they had was ssj bardock losing to a vultrimite Their mindlessness knows no bounds
Namek Gohan would treat all of Viltrum like one of those Jackie Chan fight scenes where he's beating their ass with like ladders, mops, or whatever random garbage lying around
@@Marco-qy6bmliterally yes. Namek saga Gohan even before the Frieza fight probably had a power level upwards of 10,000. Only king vegeta and bardock were anywhere near that powerful. Raditz is probably what a “average” saiyan warrior was like.
Let's put it like this. The last arc of Classic DB starts, but before the tournament could oficially start, the Viltrumates pulled up to Earth. The average Viltrumate is Multi Continental, end of series Mark is probably planetary but he doesn't count. Mark, Nolan and Thaedus did that feat with high levels of risk and with the help of the laser from Space Racer. Meanwhile, you have Roshi vaporizing the fucking moon and, at that point, Krillin was stated by Roshi to be stronger then him and on top of that, you have Piccolo Jr and Goku. During the Goku vs Piccolo fight, Piccolo said that even if 100 of each of the Z fighters (so 100 Roshis, Yamchas, Tien, Xiatzus and Krillins) were present, they still wouldn't stand a chance against him, Roshi agreed with Piccolo. So hundreds of Moon busters would have no chance againt Piccolo. The Viltrumites are cooked.
@@yspy_1801 I think multi continental for viltrumites is kinda major downplay ngl. I mean even a corpse of a viltrumite too w multi continental attack While the Viltrum feat is iffy I think space racer being there is irrelevant as Robert Kirkman attributes this feat to the viltrumites so it seems space racer was needed so maybe they didn’t get fried by the heat of the planets core so I’d personally say they are planet-large planet Also ngl I think that 100s of z fighters statement might just be hyberbole ngl
@@mrperfectcell5079 The 100s statement is said by Piccolo and CONFIRMED by roshi. If you make a hole through something, it's structure will weaken no matter what. The laser is said to go through stars, it definitely weakened the planet. Mark, Nolan and Thadeus would be dead if ANYTHING went wrong. So if, let's say, Mark wasn't able to keep up with their speed, all three of them would be dead. I can't call that planetary, let alone large planet.
@ what if Roshi understands it’s a hyperbole and he’s just saying he could whoop everyone there I mean yeah but the point was is that you cannot prove that the viltrumites didn’t have the power to behest through the core themselves Theadus didn’t say that… all he said was that they could die upon impacting the core which could just be due to its heat rather than its toughness as Robert Kirkman implied they had the raw power to destroy Viltrum
Remember, while according to Vegeta and Nappa, he was elite saiyan enough to get into the most elite squad on the planet. In fact back when the saiyans class system actually existed he was likely one of the highest of the elites, else he wouldn't have been allowed anywhere near the prince, he was not low class at all.
Bardock was a Mid to low class and he was around 7000/10000 in terms of power level, depending on what source you're consulting; he was above Nappa. Classes do not define how strong a saiyan is, but more so how much potential they had when they were born, probably. Bardock might have been weak as a baby or he was simply ignored, but by the time Frieza killed everyone he was at least as strong as King Vegeta. So Nappa might have been considered an elite in saiyan society, but that doesn't mean there weren't many saiyans with similar or greater power
@@addictedtochocolate920 Nappa is the strongest of the saiyans aside from the royal family and Bardock. Nappa himself states he was commander and chief of the Saiyan Army. You don't get to command Saiyans if you're weaker.
You can answer yourself like this without making an in depth video convoluting everything Saiyans dont send their warriors to conquer planets, they send their children Viltrumites send off their grown adukt warriors and even have had to send multiple on a single mission at one point just to take over a planet. Simply put: Saiyans win no dif
Watch Time metrics have TH-camrs padding their tedious-ass videos like high schoolers padding a thousand-word essay. Doesn't matter how straightforward the answer is, they'll find a way to stretch their explanation to a minimum of ten minutes.
I wouldn’t be so sure about the Saiyan Numbers. While yes, Dragon Ball Minus does state they’re no more than a few thousands, this has been either overlooked or retconned in Dragon Ball Super: Broly in which you can see Frieza’s scouter calculating the Saiyan Population on the six figures. This is MUCH more consistent, given the fact that Frieza could not maintain a universal scale empire with just a few thousand men. In Super, the reason Frieza gathered just 1000 is primarily because the Frieza Empire has been disintegrating ever since his death, as shown when Sorbet knew that another sector of the empire broke away and destroyed a brigade of the army. So, Frieza was lacking manpower. Additionally, Frieza didn’t actually need the soldiers, he probably brought that detachment to see the state of his army ( as he was judging their performance and thus Sorbet’s ). Had they been just a few thousands, the Frieza Empire would have ceased to exist long before Resurrection F.
Apparently there are less than 50 planets with life on them in universe 7 so a few hundred saiyans could rather handedly be used to conquer and govern them. Hell the number was probably way higher but we know the saiyans wipe life out on planets.
@@PlayerJay425 That’s been retconned later. That’s another thing that didn’t make sense since King Cold and Frieza made a business of conquering planets to sell them.
Don't underestimate Raditz he was multiple times stronger than Piccolo and goku in their fight. He was planet moon busting level and higher cause of the moon being destroyed by Piccolo.
Big issue here in that most Viltrumites scaling to the large planet calc is pretty wrong, considering Thragg himself saying 37 of them is just enough to split the Earth.
@@mrperfectcell5079 That's wrong. "There are 37 of us left alive. Some of us severely injured. That is just enough to tear this planet in half. And there's nothing you can do to stop it" That last bit is also consistent with Mark, Nolan and Theadus being unable to bust the planet on their own.
Dragon Ball characters are just broken compared to other series. Ki is just really broken. With the right training even human characters are gods compared to the invincible universe characters. krillin and even Yamcha can destroy the entire Viltrumite Race with a single Ki blast
Hard disagree on all viltrumites being large planet. You neglected to mention the fact that nolan, mark and thadeus didn’t destroy viltrum in their own. They needed space racer to shoot the planet first in order to destabilize the core of the planet to make it even possible, which is calced for closer to small planetary than large
the thing is, Space Racer's gun causes stars to fucking explode, and Viltrum only got de-stabilised by it. it's not hard to say the Infinity Ray de-stabilising Viltrum for Mark, Thaedus and Nolan to destroy it is not an anti-feat (plus, they can definitely scale to the full destruction, because of how nothing they say imply they wouldn't be able to do it on their own, and how the entire planet literally exploded directly ontop of them)
@@helton1812 I’d say that’s more of an anti-feat against the comics version of the gun than upscaling Viltrum. Especially as Viltrum has only 1.25x Earth’s gravity(Vegeta’s gravity is 10x Earth’s) and the sun has 28x Earth’s gravity. Someone else more properly calc’d Viltrum’s GBE using the gravity and it came out to at most 1.62 Yottatons of TNT. Or 60% of large planet level.
@@mrperfectcell5079 omniman took hours to find mark and got hit by a space laser meaning they could easily calculate his travel speed. Further you cant use the alien dimension for that as it took him years to destroy it due to the timeflow being different. Monster girl and robot lasted thousands of years there wich translated to about 10 minutes on earth.
Hey, it's a lot more fair than things like Mark vs Gohan,Even using Lowball for Gohan and Highball for Mark in their Feats, there are at least more than 10 orders of magnitude of difference
@@yeikelamores6085 Namek Saga Gohan would be fair against Mark, Kid Gohans power level in the Namel saga was stated to be 10.000 alone wich is waaaay above an average sayian.
@LuarIbriqi-qf4fh Eh, honestly the answer varies between Gohan's time on Namek,Namek ending? Gohan stomps hard,Namek halfway? Gohan stomps, start of Namek? Mark wins
@@yeikelamores6085 Yea you're right It really depends, plus the fact that Gohan got massive zenkai boosts on Namek explains why he is so strong at the end.
Honestly? I mostly agree with this, but travel speed, even in Invincible, does not translate to combat. Yes, characters have quick reaction speeds, but that doesn’t automatically mean those characters’ travel speeds are the same in combat.
@@InvinciDon for characters to perceive space racers laser they would have to have reactions similar to their travel speed as the laser is faster than marks travel speed
Master roshi moon busting feat is calculated large planetary, radtiz tank a much stronger version attack from piccolo, king vegeta trple planet bust which was around large star, another thing Saiyans scale to there space pod which is billions to trillions xftl
If we’re gonna be using the same Death Battle feat with the sun disc - shit. I kinda refuse that Death Battle used that feat since even if we hypothetically used it, it’s more like a durability feat than a strength feat. That’s also implying Omni-Man could beat First Form Frieza which makes no sense.
Even using that Feat, they are still fodder for Frieza 1 form,Who has a Feat while sitting, barely straining and laughing, which is measured between 10⁴⁴ Joules to 10⁴⁶ Joules and It's clear that Frieza could try much harder than that.
I also refuse it because we see multiple times that a single Viltrumite would die if they tried going through a planet. A feat that takes leagues less energy than the output of the sundisk laser feat. This was stated by Thaedus when he, Mark and Nolan go through Planet Viltrum, and Thragg even implied that he needed the remaining Viltrumites to destroy earth which is smaller than Viltrum in size. Let’s look at the evidence for Viltrumites scaling to the disc, which is Theadus just saying “We now have a list of weapons and beings that can hurt a Viltrumite” and thats it. This isn’t to say he isn’t wrong, the laser destroying the sundisk is capable of killing a Viltrumite, I am pretty sure he had it in mind, the problem is that a Viltrumite would be to fast to get hit by the laser and wouldn’t be effective against against an Army of them. Scaling each of them to a laser is an outlier
@@unknownbasic57Exactly what you said, there is also the fact that it could be that the Viltrumites are too small to hit properly with the laser, it is not concentrated enough
@@asura3229 my theory here is that the gun is an over hyped weapon. It is even a canonical thing that most of the infinity rays capabilities are speculative since no one was ever able to study it
It would already be hard if it's just the Saiyans vs. the Viltrumites, what with the Saiyans having the ability to increase their battle power through Zenkai boosts or the Great Ape transformation, but the fact that they're a part of the Freeza Force means that Freeza might reinforce them, and if he does, the Viltrumites are fucked. The average soldier in Freeza's force is as strong as Raditz, and they're numerous. Not to mention elite forces like the Ginyu Force and the Saiyan Elite.
Actually I think Frieza could possibly intervene and wipe out the Saiyans to replace with Viltrumites. Viltrumites would be everything Frieza wanted out of the Saiyans but without the flaws. No legendary Super Saiyan. No issue with loyalty Frieza's Empire and Viltrumites aligns and Viltrumites take loyalty very seriously. Tldr Frieza see's the potential in having the Viltrumites under his rule and wipes out the Saiyans early because with the Viltrumites he no longer needs them.
@FantomMisfit Viltrumites would never lower themselves to serve Freeza. They're even more racist than the Saiyans were. So no, Freeza would space the Viltrumites without a second thought.
I mean... Omniman/mark/whatever they called him on his homeplanet is pretty strong and could probably kill low ranking Sayans/non warrior ones. But once more capable and army trained Sayans take to the battlefield even the strongest of Viltrum can pack their bags.
the statement about planet vegeta only having a few thousand sayians is because most of them are across the galaxy and do not remain in one planet, that possibly means there were alot more sayians
0:34 if we're using the saiyan race on planet vegeta before frieza blew it up, why are we including characters like saiyan saga vegeta and nappa? vegeta would've been a child by that time, and very inexperienced compared to when we see them in the saiyan saga. that's like if we used the viltrumites before the scourge virus, and then included prime mark grayson from the end of the series 💀
Enough with all these stupid comparisons we all know both shows are awesome but scaling them to DBZ isn’t doing them any good. If you truly insist let’s just drop them ALL on present day planet Vampa, there’s a lonely saiyan there. I’d pay to see that lol.
I had no idea that the Tick and Invincible had a crossover. Neat. That aside, this matchup went about how I expected. Although, I'm still surprised that there are only a couple thousand Saiyans around at any given time.
If you can travle through spacw then locate enough kf your species elsewhere incase something that causes a mass extinction event happens like a giant meteor the size of jupiter hitting the planet and wiping out most life on it
@@The_Crimson_Shogun in all likelihood, that is a massive low-ball. Even if you assume that the Sayians were only 0.1% above replacement rate, over the 1000 years since the first SSJ you'd end up with something in the 500k range, assuming a 1000 Sayians bottleneck during that legend (likely, as it was during some extreme conflict). Even with that low-ball, the Sayians only need their top 5 to totally destroy every Viltrumite we know of, all at once.
I would say the Saiyans win the first rounds, but the Viltrumites would learn that Ki power/blasts are possible and would return stronger, knowing that there is more they can learn/grow in strength, and eventually win.
The only Satan big on mercy was Goku. Even Vegeta for a long while was out right finishing people these are people who's job was to wipe out all life on planets.
1. not everyone can learn Ki easily 2. that still wouldnt dismiss the massive power gap between the two races, sure they might have Ki but they would still get bodied by the Sayains power 3. if they tried to invade Vegeta the Sayains would 100% follow the retreat party home
can they invade? yes.. can they win? just against the grunts.. and maybe as they can still energy blast cities. But i think you made the biggest case as to why they lose. Takes a whole of stuff like space racers gun 3 of them etc to blow up 1 planet. Most in dbz can do that easy as vegeta demonstrated and with no outside help. And omni man had a hard time to cyborg humans. Yea they not that strong bro, only relative to humans in their verse.
Even the most powerful Viltrumite could not even hope to beat Raditz, much less anyone stronger him. Invading Planet Vegeta would be calling down the thunder.
Didn’t Vegeta state that Power Levels correlate to speed as well. Because during the Namek Saga, Vegeta states to Cui. That when a characters Power Level increase, their Speed will multiply by that number. For example, if Oozaru Form is a 10x multiplier, wouldn’t that mean they would get 10x faster.
Viltrumites win hands down, the saiyans we see in Z are generally the peak of their people, far surpassing the rest, the average saiyan is equivalent to most of the frieza force. Also its worth keeping in mind that these peoples have roughly the same cultural values with 1 notable exception, saiyans have basically no sense of community while viltrumites are both absolutely loyal and very into their cultural identity. Saiyans are very willing to just cap each other the moment it becomes convenient even if they literally grew up together, while viltrumites defecting is so inconceivable that when nolan does it, they triple check the veracity of it with multiple sources and are still in disbelief when he straight up tells them and even then they bring him home for an official trial and sentencing.
I wonder if it's possible for the Saiyans to be "de-extinct" In a simmilar way that Scientists are planning to de-extinct the mammoth by basically creating Elephants with Mammoth traits so Hybrids. If we include the movie Saiyan Turles and include Vegeta's brother that leaves us with 8 Saiyans. 2 pairs of brothers ( Goku/Raditz and the Princes) a father and son (Peragus/ Broly) and the last 2 are unrelated probably. Assuming there are Genetic samples from all of them is it possible to create a self sustaining population (a population that won't suffer from inbreeding and collapse slowly) of Half Saiyan Half Human hybrids ? Or atleast Hybrids that are 25% Saiyan, like Pan ?
@@constantinethecataphract5949 In reality? Not likely. Even if you assume perfect genetic control, which we lack, 8 and 4 more half specimens are not sufficient to create a viable species. However, if Gohan and Pan is anything to go by Sayian Genes seem to operate differently from genes IRL. It could be that mating with humans would slowly turn the entire human race into a sort of half-sayian species, as in GT Goku and Vegeta Jr are spitting images of their ancestors. Not that GT is canon, but whatever.
@@lancelambert1644 Im using real world logic for the genes in this Scenario. Originally i thought a population might be theoretically possible if they are only quarter like Pan after researching how many men are needed for humanity to continue without inbreeding depression to occur but this isn't as applicable, also they clearly have better biotechnology in the DBZ universe. Im guessing it could be possible for quarter Saiyans if more Saiyan samples existed like say 15 instead of 8. Half Saiyans as a population are straight up unsustainable longterm even with the advanced biotech unobtainium they have.
@constantinethecataphract5949 If you really want to play devil's advocate, you could use the namekian/super dragon balls to either 1) bring back some good natured Sayians for more initial input or 2) bring their bodies back for more genetic material to make "Fake Sayians" from, like how we use Mammoth Fossils. I assume simply restoring the Planet Vegeta would give enough Sayian genetic material to work with, if you wanna go that route, given they've been there for a minimum of 1000 years.
If we're talking about before the destruction of the planet. In Canon, Bardock made a wish for both of his sons to thrive, so if Raditz is on the planet, there isn't a single thing viltrum can do.
1. Nolan one of the more powerful viltrumites got blitzed by red rush who is at most a little bit above SOL. 2. I'm like 90% certain The author themselves stated that viltrumite reaction speed depends on the speed they are traveling. 3. If we actually look at the scene where Nolan flies off to viltrum from earth he is in earth's atmosphere for several seconds but once he leaves the atmosphere he is able to traverse a much greater distance in what seems to be a similar amount of time. Implying either the atmosphere slows them down (which it would) and/or they take some amount of time to accelerate to those absurd speeds. 4. The flaxan planet, he is going all out and wants them all dead, with speeds millions of times the speed of light he should be able to turn the planet's surface to glass in seconds due to atmospheric friction but instead it takes him 30 years. Or if he truly is as powerful as you think he is he could just break the planet apart with his bare hands killing all of them, but he doesn't.
Dragon Ball character: casually blows up planet with the flick of a wrist Also Dragon Ball character: frantically carpet bombing the ground trying to kill an enemy at their level and somehow the planet isn't instantly destroyed Yeah I'm thinking DB is a gag manga
Before Watching: The Average Sayian outclasses the Average Viltrumite by a wide margin. Their Durability is actually comparable as far as fisticuffs, and the Viltrumites actually outspeed the Sayians by a fair bit (Sayians are ~5-9 times faster than light, scaling to Goku dodging Lasers with moderate difficulty at a power level of about 100, whereas even average Viltrumites are 10-100 Billion times faster than Light), but the Ozaru is just too much. A single Ozaru, assuming an average of 1,000 Power Level (That is WEAKER THAN RADITZ), could destroy the entire planet they are standing on. Even if you ignore the Roshi blowing up the moon thing, no Viltrumite has a comparable AP to that. They simply could not hurt an Ozaru, or the moon that makes them. So, the Ozaru stand on their planet, monkeying around, picking off a stray Viltrumite one by one. That is, until you reach the higher level Sayians. Though it seems logical to scale them linearly off of the Goku laser feat and placing characters like King Vegeta at around ~90xLightspeed, He actually has feats that place him far, far higher. He waves his hand and blows up *three different planets.* That is to say, his hand caused a power wave that traveled across a solar system in seconds. So either those planets were all in Earth-to-Moon distance of each other (not probable due to tidal forces), or DBZ doesn't know crap about space and just showed what they thought was cool with little to no thought about how it would actually work. King Vegeta waves his hands and all but the strongest Viltrumites are instantly turned to nothing. The strongest are then played with by the monkeys. In short; monki see, monki smash After Watching: I think MrPerfectCell actually downplayed the distances crossed by the Viltrumites. Thraxia is placed in the "Virgo Supercluster," which is a very big place. It could be our galaxtic neighbor, or it could be incredibly far, far away. Highballing gets us my aforementioned 10-100 billion calc, but even if you assume that it is closer, ~50 Million Lightspeed is plenty fast for the point to be made. I also think that he somewhat downplayed their durability, given the Federation Cannons and their small planetary weapons can't hurt the Viltrumites. Now, I often think that "can't hurt" isn't "they stonewall," but rather that it is not sufficient damage to stop them from ripping the ship apart limb from limb with their teeth, but until we get to see what the cannons do to the Viltrumites we can high or lowball either way. Now, his Dragonball Speed is kinda silly, imo. That feat in general is really really dumb, because again, DBZ has no clue what space actually looks like. But taking it at face value, yes, the Sayians are in fact that fast, and the Ozaru are now able to speedblitz the Viltrumites. *In addition* to being star level in base form. We win deez
@DarthNox66 What? Where are you getting that? They aren't *MAYBE* star level unless your referring to the calculations being too high or wrong (which they aren't, they are right). They are at the very least at that level, considering both Vegeta's did it with absolutely no effort. Prince vegeta using his finger to blow up a planet to small star levels of magnitude, and then we have King Vegeta simply waving his hand and eviscerating 3 planets to large star levels of proportions. If they could simply cause that much destruction by waving their hand or pointing their finger, then it would be reasonable to assume if they poured their full energy into an attack, that they would wipe out a solar system *AT the very least*
To clarify the calcs: When, in dragon ball, a planet "blows up," it isn't just cracked in half and sent into a collision course with the star it orbits, it is so utterly obliterated that there isn't even a fine dust left. To do so, you don't need "planet" levels, that's what you'd need to just crack it, Kirby style. You'd need well into Dwarf Star levels, with Frieza's ball in his first form being calced at around Small Star fairly consistently. Elite Sayians being able to casually Dwarf Star three planets at once places them so far above anything Invincible has seen that it's not even funny. The *only* advantage they have is speed.
If a saiyan victory prob a saiyan-viltrum breed out populating both and definitely the saiyans, and if a viltrum victory the saiyan elites would be slaughtered and the lower class saiyans would now be the second or strongest of the viltrum empire, if thragg were to allow interbreeding, the viltrum empire would win in invincible, but its unlikely, thragg would still be looking for argalls line or if hes given up then a viltrum victory is gurenteed, abd if allan doesnt makes a viltrum-saiyan virus their aint no hope
You don't need to travel at Lightspeed to dodge a light speed attack. See you have to travel less distance than the light so you still have to go very fast but you don't necessarily have to be travelling at light speed since you don't need to go. As far as the light does, you can be travelling slower and still avoid it. But I do agree that every saying should be approaching the speed of light
@@solarwind I mean yeah that is true but obviously if some fires an attack at close range and you dodge it you would at least have to scale to the attack to some degree (although I’d argue goku actually traveled a greater distance than king piccolos light beam did)
Well, I agree with your assessment, but you forgot one very important variable sayings evolve during battle as you push them to their absolute limit and they're going to break those limits. So it's likely that a lot of them will start turning into Super saiyans and when that happens, I think the vultramites are going to start taking the L's
@@mrperfectcell5079 Thats 100% not true as weve seen alot of Sayains get Super without pure hearts. Vegeta being the biggest example, and zenkai boosts are something that all Sayains get. Dude why are you so dead set on viltrum even having a chance when they clearly wont
I'm imagining viltrumites land on some gigantic forests on planet vegeta (the kind that could accomodate hundreds of thousands of Great Apes) and got hunted by the Saiyans.
Imma be honest i believe you highe ball that planetary feat for the viltrumites with Mark and Omni man and the other dude cause he said they could die on "Impact" not the cores heat and space racer gun plaid a huge part and since it took 3 of them to do that at most you can say thats only like Moon + to just planetary and thats for Omni man and mark and the other guy
And going off that Piccolo feat Raditz would be 4 times stronger than that, so then that splat factor would literally come into play alot viltrumites would literally die trying hurt the average saiyan
@@thefirstprime0124 I don’t think the “impact” part means much. Like if you impacted the suns surface your obviously gonna burn to death “impact” just means to make contact with and considienrg joe badly end of series mark and thragg got fucked ik by the suns surface I wouldn’t be suprised if thesdus thought they would just melt Both come out to around 10^34-35 joules the difference in power really isn’t that large
@mrperfectcell5079 it is that Large because it took 3 Viltrumites vs 1 Saiyans also space racer Weakened the planets Core which also helped them out with this feat and also the fact that they could have died is also another thing there's just too much going on with that feat that just doesn't compare them to Raditz
@ the thing is though is that space racer being there doesn’t matter. Robert Kirkman implies they could have done it without him so Theadus could have just been wrong (not to mention he isn’t even 100% sure if they would die) and Viltrum explosion is so large that even when dividing it by 3 it still comes out to around large planetary which is around the same level as piccolos Moon bust
@mrperfectcell5079 Bruh space racer was literally a big point in that Feat and if they would have destroyed it without space racer then they most likely would have died because they wouldn't have had any help they would have been heavily damaged hell they took damage from doing that with space racer
Only successful outcome for the Viltrumites is that Frieza intervenes and wipes out the Saiyans to replace them with Viltrumites. They'd serve essentially the same role for Frieza as the Saiyans did but would be far more loyal than the Saiyans ever were and no threat of one becoming a Super Saiyan and overthrowing him. Edit: Power wise King Vegeta, Vegeta, Or Bardock could solo Edit: Bardock is actually above Nappa as Nappa's max is around 7500 and Bardock 10k was stated to rival King Vegeta. Frieza wiping out the Saiyans early in favor of the Viltrumites actually could happen Frieza only waited so long to wipe them out because as he said in the video losing the Saiyans would shrink his army too much but with the Viltrumites it wouldn't be an issue.
The answer is yes. Because Viltrumites don't have to invade by fighting. The Viltrumites biggest advantage is how their genetics work. Although if they decide to be stupid and attack head on yeah they lose badly.
IMO the veltrumite win due to the stamina and the speed factor.But like almost every other VS Battle strength isn’t an instant win con. The veltrumite planet destruction feat (the sun disk either but eh) ain’t really an outlier since they should have planet lvl amount of power really.
Omni man himself proves that speed doesnt win a fight alone either when he crushes red rushes head, and as for stamina and durability, the Sayains have been shown to be faster then light and able to tank absurd attacks, like when bardock survived insides Frezias supernova, which puts him above viltums as his skin didnt start to melt off
@@mrlemons4406 Thats not how that works Bardock doesn’t scale to that because he quite literally died to it. Veltrumites are easily MFTL+ since they are able to fly half way across the galaxy within a week. Red rush was massively MASSIVELY slower than Omni-man so what’s ur point?
@@Purple_23184 my point is you cant use space travel as speed points, there is no friction in space ergo you can go infintely faster, but when you look at any example of omniman on earth hes always slower then the average Sayain or even human. its like comparing a spaceship to an airplane
The problem is that Dragonball is very bad at communicating its scale with visuals. When you see Nolan fly to fast he starts glassing cities by proxy it feels a lot different
I don’t think we can really use ki feats of DBZ to compare a viltrumite’s physical feats since they’re not the same. It’s like bringing a gun to a fist fight. Also, I think a viltrumite’s speed negates any significant ki technique/blast a DBZ character could generate.
@@Nahnonope well ki is used to amplify one’s physical capabilities, so this would apply to the saiyans physical strength and speed as well. Can you elaborate on why you think their speed would negate their ki blasts?
Apparently those speed feats aren't actual raw speed, Their smart atoms kinda just allows then to kinda teleport around that is why they are so fast, realistically in space they are ftl but on a planet MHS. Kid Goku have FTL+ Feats and is stated not only in the anime (Via Young King Piccolo) but also in guides to be planetary. nuff said.
@@onyx6774 the databook that says that more so links it to a theory and even describes teleportation as requiring the user to either create a portal or a “fade” where the user appears to fade out often unevenly, neither of which happening to viltrumites, so it’s probably just their raw speed The guide also clarifies that these are the ONLY TWO WAYS a living being could utilize sub space teleportation which does just tell us that viltrumites are not teleporting
@@mrperfectcell5079 "It is apparent that the same mas creation process that allows inertial flight (See Smart Atoms) is closely related to Subspace teleportation. When Inertial flight operates at maximum speed, each change of atomic mass is accompanied by a tiny subspace jump. effectively multiplying Omni-man's apparent velocity to well above the velocity of light." It never states it was a theory tho. Raw speed I would say they would scale to Allen. but that is basically it.
@@onyx6774 yeah im aware of the statement but the same guide contradicts itself by also describing this as just a theory, and saying that there are only two ways a living organism can have subspace teleportation, neither of which line up with the viltrumites do even by their own description
1-It's canon, it happened in Kai too and honestly, it's consistent with feats both before and after,Roshi and Piccolo's feats are consistently calculated between 10³⁴ to 10³⁶ Joules and they only got less than 400 when they did that,King Vegeta and Vegeta's Feats are estimated to be between 10³⁸ to 10⁴² Joules and They have between 10 to 20 thousand and Frieza has Effortless Feats between 10⁴³ to 10⁴⁶ Joules,The power jump is Consistent 2-Cell is MASSIVELY ABOVE the solar system, whether by scale, calculations or simple math
@yeikelamores6085 Exactly perfect cell is massively above solar system by calc but that go against his statement Also Vegeta stated that his final attack can destroy earth in the sayan arc while piccolo destroying the moon is calc to large planet It's obvious these calcs are inconsistents
@RedLights9000-f3l 1-Did you forget that the solar systems in DB are MUCH BIGGER than ours? 2-It's not just calculations, but also feats of characters far inferior to Cell have feats far above the solar system. 3-Cell never said that was the limit of his power, it was just what he wanted to destroy, besides DC and AP are different 4-The point is that the attack is going to destroy the earth, not that it only has the minimum to destroy the earth,An attack could be star level and still be said to be going to destroy the earth,Also remember that the attack was to kill Goku and the earth,Which meant that the attack had the power to kill Goku and still had enough strength to destroy the Earth.
@yeikelamores6085 1- source? 2- no it's only calcs and the obvious ones are anime fillers 3- there's no reason for cell to limit himself he almost died five minutes ago also the databook never said he limited himself while supporting the solar system statement 4- Goku was already dead at this point cell didn't say that until he went super perfect cell
@@RedLights9000-f3l 1-TH-cam for reasons beyond my control does not let me put a link,But it is the fact that solar systems are galactic nebulas composed of innumerable Stars in DB, even assuming we are only using a small nebula as a reference, the energy needed is still multi solar system+ 2-There is nothing wrong with using calculations and Feats, especially the anime that is canon th-cam.com/video/SwXDBT5MiRU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=r8S3HbvNzsiw8ze1 3-Don't know the difference between AP and DC?An attack can have a much larger attack power than its destructive capacity, Cell was not holding back on his AP, but he was limiting his DC,Which is something very common in DB and fiction 4-I think you just don't understand what you're talking about.
Okay so this is just a genuine opinion for me before I watch the video. Now I can't remember where I heard it but apparently in the Dragon Ball universe it takes the power level of around 10,000 to destroy a planet the size of Earth. We also know that it took three very powerful vulturemites to destroy which is about twice as big as Earth. So let's assume that it would normally take a power level of about 20,000 to destroy planet Viltrum. Now if we assume each viltrumite involved was the same power level that would give each one of them roughly a power level of about 6,666 (repeating) and they did this with pure physical strength. Now assuming they're invading planet Vegeta which only has a full moon once every 10 years this could actually be a problem for the saiyans. Especially because viltrumites ARE faster. You got to remember the saiyans on a population of less than a thousand and their average warrior isn't all that powerful. Nappa had a power level of 3000-5000 and was considered an elite. The only saiyans that could easily kill a viltrumite are Bardock, the king and the prince who have power levels of 10000 around 10000 and 18000 respectively. So while I am not saying that the saiyans lose I am absolutely saying this would not be as much of a wash as some people think it is but that's just my educated opinion. All right I'm going to actually watch the video now 👍
1 in Dragon ball when referring to a planet it noting a planet bigger then earth, as characters note earth is tiny, meaning in dragon ball the earth is consider a dwarf planet, 2 Viltrum is stated to have, 1.25 gravity of earth, so if you consider it bigger, then is basically a lightweight planet being less dense then the earth, like comparing a small rock to large empty soda can
@@spinozilla2421 If it’s 1.25x Earth’s gravity with way higher size, that may actually lower its GBE significantly compared to a denser planet with that gravity. So yea, agreed, not a good argument in favor of Viltrum if that’s the case.
The Sayans clear low diff. The scale higher, are faster, arguably equal if not slighty superior than the Viltrumites, and are more durable. Orzaru and potential Super Sayans are just overkill
Definetly not, roshi's moon feat can be gotten to the power to destroy earth 8 times over, no viltrumite gets to that level exept for maybe the high tiers and saiyans are way stronger than roshi.
yeah, saiyans were sent as children to conquered entire planets. all by there selfs. ALSO, each saiyan is on average above 2,000. 500 is enough to put a hand up into the sky, shoot a ki blast, and explode the moon instantly. soo, instant planet busters? each one. one, of the probably thousands of saiyans? yeah. not really fare. the strongest of vitrolites is a Saiyan's weakest.
@@digieykid6096 the video was using Viltrum BEFORE the scourge virus where they had a population so vast they could make a giant ring around their planet composed entirely of corpses (calced to require 20 quadrillion bodies) Compare this to saiyans having a population in the low thousands
@@mrperfectcell5079 Idk where you think that number comes from but Frezia himself counts the Sayain population in atleast 6 digets, the only reason so few Sayains were on Vegeta is because they were spread across other planets
@@mrlemons4406 this is genuinely not true. 1. Freiza called all of them back to planet vegeta so there wouldn't be any on other planets. 2. The only place and time frieza says millions in regards to their population is TFS's abridged series which is a fan parody series and is not Canon. he never says that or anything like that in the actual series. 3. In dbs whis confirms that most of the remaining saiyans are on earth. 4. The several thousand for their population comes from Dragon ball minus a bonus series written and illustrated by Akira Toriyama. that trumps anything from any fan series. 5. This isn't really relevant but I want you to have an idea of the scale here. Even if we assumed it was true that they had millions of saiyans with trillions of viltrumites there would still be millions of them for every 1 saiyan. 6. I agree that saiyans win i just disagree with this point about there population being in the millions.
@@Bob44345 1. he calls them back because he wants to kill them duh 2. i wasnt talking about Abridged 3. we're talking both empires at their peak which is not DBS 4. Toriyama changes the Sayain total more than star wars changes the Jedi total 5. the fact that there is over a quadrillion bodies in space around viltrum means that the author just wanted a cool detail because how tf would they all get fed or sheltered? 6. i never said millions just that it was atleast 6 digets
Raditz is one of the strongest Saiyan that lived, only behind Goku-Vegeta-Broly-Bardock-King Vegeta- Napa, we joke about him, but he was strong enough to be part of Vegeta Squad when he was still a kid, and beside he is in control of his Ozaru form so he would be a beast if the moon was full.
@@ZeroTaichiI don't know, it was said that Raditz was weakened when he was on Earth or something like that,I've seen some guides out there that say his actual power at max was 2500
@@yeikelamores6085 Yes he was weaken in a fight with Vegeta because they considered him dead weight, that the reason he when to earth to get is brother.
Hmm a race of planet destroyers vs a race that tanks literally everything, the same race that’s only weakness is literally to be stronger than them vs a race of monkeys who are ordered around by a little horned prick. Hmmm. At his strongest goku can’t touch Superman and at vegetas he was taken out by Thor. Man it’s crazy when changing your hair color or looking at the moon can’t save you from guys in caps who’s man powers are invincibility, to be stronger than literally everything, can survive in space, can literally pass through stars and escape black holes, can adapt quickly to literally any situation. I love also how changing your hair color and increasing every aspect of yourself by hundreds of billions of times is supposed to save you from someone who can think billions of thoughts and react accordingly before light reaches your eyes so you can perceive the fact that your disembodied eyes are floating in red mist that used to be your body. I know exactly what saiyans are and exactly what the can do and are capable of and the same of kryptonians, gods, and viltrumites, and brothers saiyans are mid tier outside of the dragon ball universe. Yes saiyans can destroy planets with the smallest of effort Nappa and vegeta proved that but when there are beings you can take your full powered attack from every color of the rainbow your hair maybe, the look at you after the fact, raise an eyebrow, and ask “is that it” you need to rethink your life choices. I’m not saying they wouldn’t put a fight, I sure it would be a valiant effort, a battle worthy of legends, but in the end the saiyans can’t stack up for a prolonged period. Saiyans still need food and rest, but that aside the majin buu in any form would put up far more of a fight. Because Magic! And the fact you can’t kill the buggers. Superman would be chocolate, Thor would be dead and omniman would probably be absorbed. I like saiyans far more than the other three but they are not all powerful, just because one is a saiyans does not mean it wins just because it’s a saiyan.
saiyans have dogsh!t endurance and durability compared to viltrumites, plus the viltrumites are a lot faster wich u did say in ur vid and they could prob just speedblitz everyone, the saiyan population is only serveral thousand, while according to google viltrumites before the scourge virus had a population of 23 quadrillion, plus bardock and the other saiyans couldnt even survive friezas first form, and yeah friezas first form is strong, but viltrumites like thragg omni man and mark can survive in the sun for a few minutes while bardock got turned to dust in just seconds by frieza, omni man could easily escape the pull of a black hole not even trying btw, and yes if the saiyans have great ape then they do have an advantage but they wont be any faster, and they do have strong fighters like nappa vegeta and king vegeta but they cant do sh1t bcz of the viltrumites outnumbering them. and i know that space racer had to destabalize the planet that omni man destroyed with 2 other viltrumites but space racers infinity ray can destroy whole stars and cause supernovas and his infinity ray couldnt even destroy that planet that easily. Viltrumites have infinite stamina while if a saiyan uses one single attack their stamina goes to sh1t and they cant do anyting,saiyans dont care about training and dont want to train while viltrumites do, plus the saiyans have tails and according to toriyama thats their weakness if the viltrumite grabs their tail its over, plus saiyans are cocky and stupid and they make dumb descisions. if the saiyans turned into great apes they would simply become a bigger target, also the viltrumites get stronger and stronger every time they get older and btw omni man is 2000 years old and they have an extremly long life span, the viltrumites will destroy the saiyans and ripp through their planet.
Yeah but viltrumites when they do attack someone that is stronger than them they tend to splat or break a limb kinda like when omniman broke his hand against thragg. If the Saiyans just in their base or worst in their oozaru forms will most likely not even feel hits from them. Remember just being near the hundred range of power levels is enough to destroy the moons. These Saiyans are like in the thousands and could easily destroy planets with ease. The oozaru form increases their stats by 10 times. Omniman and mark and that other viltrumite needed help and had to time it just right or else they would’ve died. Saiyans do train and get zenkai’s boost after recovering near death experiences. How would they know Saiyans tails are their weaknesses?
@@sabaibaikari7023 no that was the viltrumite thraxan hybrid the reason they splatted is bcz they were 50 % thraxan and tharaxans have very very bad durability
@@sabaibaikari7023 and? the viltrumites are quadrillions and the saiyans are only several thousands, plus viltrumites are more durable, can endure more, and are stronger
Viltumites can win by pulling a Frieza and destroying Planet Vegeta, they have the numbers. But, each Sayian could take on a significant number of Viltumites each. So if no planet busting takes place the Saiyan's will only lose to numbers in a drawn out battle.
@@HarryAyA it’s going to be hard for them to actually land a hit though with that speed gap even if they have trouble hurting them at first they are just gonna tire themselves out while the viltrumites continue pummeling them with their “unlimited stamina” and superior numbers
I don't know if they have enough power to destroy Planet Vegeta, which is estimated to be at least It has a gravitational binding of at least 10³⁷ to 10³⁸ Joules
@@mrperfectcell5079 Characters from Invincible tend to go splat when they hit something harder than they are (To put it in simple terms). So a lot of Viltrumites would cause injuries to themselves if this rule stays true when fighting something from outside their own Universe. Despite that, I still believe under different circumstances the winner would change between between the two races, since one side has the numbers the other has strength.
You know there are Solar System arguments for Saiyans as well. In Dr. Slump they state, that Earth is hundreds of time larger than are own. With character in OG Dragon Ball state that King Piccolo could destroy the Earth. If you do count Dr. Slump as canon. Although there are just multipliers as well. Because Master Roshi’s Moon Feat does have calcs that get Dwarf Star. Since characters get Stronger and Faster in OG. Like Yamcha dodges light attacks from Chi Chi. Since he gets stronger in later arcs. He would be faster as well. Although this is my opinion, and I’ll respect yours
Viltrumites send their WARRIORS to conquer planets.
Saiyans send their INFANTS to conquer planets.
Nuff said.
So that's how Goku got to Earth?
@@Miksy51, kind of.
@@Miksy51Depends on the continuity or at times, personal takes. In Z and initial writing, Kakarot was sent to Earth to destroy it due to his low power level. In the Dragon Ball Super manga, he was sent to Earth to escape the destruction of Planet Vegeta.
@@zetasans495 yeah I will never accept Dragon Ball minus as canon.
@jhtoxic7870 I never read minus but when I read that passage in the super manga to me it felt like bardok's intent was for goku/kakarot to evade the destruction of the planet BUT the conquering of earth was implied
People think the strongest of these vultrimites can defeat a super saiyan. That’s the saddest thing about this
It's very sad, even the weakest SSJ, Bardock from the OVA, is at least in the range of solar system+ to multi solar system+
Bro Thragg gets dogwalked by Namek Saga Krillin, let alone any Super Saiyan.
@ lmfaooo
Who? Mark after 500 year time skip?
@ can you believe death battle thought this bullzhit? I never watch or follow death battle cuz they are marks whom get everything wrong but like the Vatican, are very popular so that hides their hideous flaws from casual fools but someone told me the most recent take they had was ssj bardock losing to a vultrimite
Their mindlessness knows no bounds
Thrag after he gets hit once by nappa:
GREAT MR PERFECT CELL INVINCIBLE VS DRAGON BALL.
💀
Cooler variably survives in the sun not surviving.
"PLEASE Nappa I need this!!"
@@someguyudontknow6038"Your kinda to strong 😢"
Namek Gohan would treat all of Viltrum like one of those Jackie Chan fight scenes where he's beating their ass with like ladders, mops, or whatever random garbage lying around
Well, to be fair, angry Gohan is MASSIVELY ABOVE most Saiyans.
@@yeikelamores6085as a kid before getting ssj?
@@Marco-qy6bmliterally yes. Namek saga Gohan even before the Frieza fight probably had a power level upwards of 10,000. Only king vegeta and bardock were anywhere near that powerful. Raditz is probably what a “average” saiyan warrior was like.
@@Marco-qy6bm Yeah, we know that at least he is in the range of 2 to 3 million power when he is angry.
@@Kingofshadows9876 ok
Let's put it like this.
The last arc of Classic DB starts, but before the tournament could oficially start, the Viltrumates pulled up to Earth.
The average Viltrumate is Multi Continental, end of series Mark is probably planetary but he doesn't count. Mark, Nolan and Thaedus did that feat with high levels of risk and with the help of the laser from Space Racer.
Meanwhile, you have Roshi vaporizing the fucking moon and, at that point, Krillin was stated by Roshi to be stronger then him and on top of that, you have Piccolo Jr and Goku. During the Goku vs Piccolo fight, Piccolo said that even if 100 of each of the Z fighters (so 100 Roshis, Yamchas, Tien, Xiatzus and Krillins) were present, they still wouldn't stand a chance against him, Roshi agreed with Piccolo. So hundreds of Moon busters would have no chance againt Piccolo.
The Viltrumites are cooked.
@@yspy_1801 I think multi continental for viltrumites is kinda major downplay ngl. I mean even a corpse of a viltrumite too w multi continental attack
While the Viltrum feat is iffy I think space racer being there is irrelevant as Robert Kirkman attributes this feat to the viltrumites so it seems space racer was needed so maybe they didn’t get fried by the heat of the planets core so I’d personally say they are planet-large planet
Also ngl I think that 100s of z fighters statement might just be hyberbole ngl
VILTRUMATES VS THE SAIYAN AND EXCELLENT MR PERFECT CELL WORK.
@@mrperfectcell5079 The 100s statement is said by Piccolo and CONFIRMED by roshi.
If you make a hole through something, it's structure will weaken no matter what. The laser is said to go through stars, it definitely weakened the planet.
Mark, Nolan and Thadeus would be dead if ANYTHING went wrong. So if, let's say, Mark wasn't able to keep up with their speed, all three of them would be dead. I can't call that planetary, let alone large planet.
@ what if Roshi understands it’s a hyperbole and he’s just saying he could whoop everyone there
I mean yeah but the point was is that you cannot prove that the viltrumites didn’t have the power to behest through the core themselves
Theadus didn’t say that… all he said was that they could die upon impacting the core which could just be due to its heat rather than its toughness as Robert Kirkman implied they had the raw power to destroy Viltrum
No Viltrumite is planet level, MAYBE moon level, at best
Remember, while according to Vegeta and Nappa, he was elite saiyan enough to get into the most elite squad on the planet. In fact back when the saiyans class system actually existed he was likely one of the highest of the elites, else he wouldn't have been allowed anywhere near the prince, he was not low class at all.
I vaguely remember Raditz referring to himself as a first class warrior.
And Goku was a low class warrior.
I just googled it and it said radiz is like mid class I guess that could be first class
Bardock was a Mid to low class and he was around 7000/10000 in terms of power level, depending on what source you're consulting; he was above Nappa.
Classes do not define how strong a saiyan is, but more so how much potential they had when they were born, probably.
Bardock might have been weak as a baby or he was simply ignored, but by the time Frieza killed everyone he was at least as strong as King Vegeta.
So Nappa might have been considered an elite in saiyan society, but that doesn't mean there weren't many saiyans with similar or greater power
@@addictedtochocolate920they define how strong someone was when they were born not their current strength
@@addictedtochocolate920 Nappa is the strongest of the saiyans aside from the royal family and Bardock. Nappa himself states he was commander and chief of the Saiyan Army. You don't get to command Saiyans if you're weaker.
You can answer yourself like this without making an in depth video convoluting everything
Saiyans dont send their warriors to conquer planets, they send their children
Viltrumites send off their grown adukt warriors and even have had to send multiple on a single mission at one point just to take over a planet.
Simply put: Saiyans win no dif
Watch Time metrics have TH-camrs padding their tedious-ass videos like high schoolers padding a thousand-word essay. Doesn't matter how straightforward the answer is, they'll find a way to stretch their explanation to a minimum of ten minutes.
They send there children is diabolical😂😂😂😂
Death battle logic:
Viltrum stomps no issue
Lmfaoooooooo
no sun disk?
cope man i seen one of you shit fanboys try to argue death would get beat by omni man fucking brain dead
Actual proper logic, baby Broly stomps and makes all viltrumites his bitches😊
The only thing accurate from the fight was the part where Bardock told Omni-Man that Goku and Raditz would beat Invincible
I wouldn’t be so sure about the Saiyan Numbers.
While yes, Dragon Ball Minus does state they’re no more than a few thousands, this has been either overlooked or retconned in Dragon Ball Super: Broly in which you can see Frieza’s scouter calculating the Saiyan Population on the six figures.
This is MUCH more consistent, given the fact that Frieza could not maintain a universal scale empire with just a few thousand men.
In Super, the reason Frieza gathered just 1000 is primarily because the Frieza Empire has been disintegrating ever since his death, as shown when Sorbet knew that another sector of the empire broke away and destroyed a brigade of the army.
So, Frieza was lacking manpower. Additionally, Frieza didn’t actually need the soldiers, he probably brought that detachment to see the state of his army ( as he was judging their performance and thus Sorbet’s ).
Had they been just a few thousands, the Frieza Empire would have ceased to exist long before Resurrection F.
Apparently there are less than 50 planets with life on them in universe 7 so a few hundred saiyans could rather handedly be used to conquer and govern them. Hell the number was probably way higher but we know the saiyans wipe life out on planets.
@@PlayerJay425
That’s been retconned later. That’s another thing that didn’t make sense since King Cold and Frieza made a business of conquering planets to sell them.
The Viltrumites aren’t getting past Raditz
They kinda are he's weak and fodder
Compared to them he's not.@@Hinokami-kagura527
@@happyrama2764true, true
Don't underestimate Raditz he was multiple times stronger than Piccolo and goku in their fight. He was planet moon busting level and higher cause of the moon being destroyed by Piccolo.
King Vegeta: *Waves his hand and vaporizes them all*
Big issue here in that most Viltrumites scaling to the large planet calc is pretty wrong, considering Thragg himself saying 37 of them is just enough to split the Earth.
Not that it's a problem, all Saiyans scale considerably above Feats calculated at 10³⁴ to 10³⁶joules or large planet+
Well that’s just blatantly wrong if you look at the viltrum feat and that’s a lowball for viltrumites
@@godzillakingofthemonsters5812 thragg didn’t say that it was “just enough”
@@mrperfectcell5079 That's wrong. "There are 37 of us left alive. Some of us severely injured. That is just enough to tear this planet in half. And there's nothing you can do to stop it"
That last bit is also consistent with Mark, Nolan and Theadus being unable to bust the planet on their own.
@@mazingg2367 The viltrum feat is most consistently small planet. And it's not a lowball, it's above any of them.
Dragon Ball characters are just broken compared to other series. Ki is just really broken. With the right training even human characters are gods compared to the invincible universe characters. krillin and even Yamcha can destroy the entire Viltrumite Race with a single Ki blast
Well, Krilin and Yamcha>>>all the Saiyans from planet Vegeta
This is basically asking if a child can beat his father 😭🙏🏿
Some can
@@gokuvegeta1167I can't even if i am a nokia my father would tear me apart like toilet paper
Hard disagree on all viltrumites being large planet. You neglected to mention the fact that nolan, mark and thadeus didn’t destroy viltrum in their own. They needed space racer to shoot the planet first in order to destabilize the core of the planet to make it even possible, which is calced for closer to small planetary than large
There's also the fact that the 3 of them are considerably stronger than the average Viltrumites.
the thing is, Space Racer's gun causes stars to fucking explode, and Viltrum only got de-stabilised by it. it's not hard to say the Infinity Ray de-stabilising Viltrum for Mark, Thaedus and Nolan to destroy it is not an anti-feat (plus, they can definitely scale to the full destruction, because of how nothing they say imply they wouldn't be able to do it on their own, and how the entire planet literally exploded directly ontop of them)
@@helton1812 I’d say that’s more of an anti-feat against the comics version of the gun than upscaling Viltrum. Especially as Viltrum has only 1.25x Earth’s gravity(Vegeta’s gravity is 10x Earth’s) and the sun has 28x Earth’s gravity. Someone else more properly calc’d Viltrum’s GBE using the gravity and it came out to at most 1.62 Yottatons of TNT. Or 60% of large planet level.
People took that Death Battle video Way too seriously.
Their insane speed is due to the lack of friction so they can accelerate infinitely with no problem.
@@supermaximglitchy1 not always because mark instantly outpaced a ship that can travel galaxies in a weeks tome
@@mrperfectcell5079 omniman took hours to find mark and got hit by a space laser meaning they could easily calculate his travel speed. Further you cant use the alien dimension for that as it took him years to destroy it due to the timeflow being different. Monster girl and robot lasted thousands of years there wich translated to about 10 minutes on earth.
@@mrperfectcell5079 ok and? the guys right its much easier to move fast in space where there is no friction
50ish viltrumites vs millions of Great Ape Saiyans?? Fair asf
I think the Saiyans were in the thousands. But they would still destroy them.
Hey, it's a lot more fair than things like Mark vs Gohan,Even using Lowball for Gohan and Highball for Mark in their Feats, there are at least more than 10 orders of magnitude of difference
@@yeikelamores6085 Namek Saga Gohan would be fair against Mark, Kid Gohans power level in the Namel saga was stated to be 10.000 alone wich is waaaay above an average sayian.
@LuarIbriqi-qf4fh Eh, honestly the answer varies between Gohan's time on Namek,Namek ending? Gohan stomps hard,Namek halfway? Gohan stomps, start of Namek? Mark wins
@@yeikelamores6085 Yea you're right It really depends, plus the fact that Gohan got massive zenkai boosts on Namek explains why he is so strong at the end.
Also I feel the weakest Sayians could beat them. Unlike what deathbattle says in their Omniman vs Bardock fight.
Honestly? I mostly agree with this, but travel speed, even in Invincible, does not translate to combat. Yes, characters have quick reaction speeds, but that doesn’t automatically mean those characters’ travel speeds are the same in combat.
@@InvinciDon for characters to perceive space racers laser they would have to have reactions similar to their travel speed as the laser is faster than marks travel speed
@@mrperfectcell5079 Incorrect as even the human eye can perceive things faster than we can go. Look up reaction time.
@emm6101 the human eye can't see things moving at the speed of light get real bro this shouldn't be a discussion
@@Hinokami-kagura527 No but you can see things that move too fast for you to react to.
Master roshi moon busting feat is calculated large planetary, radtiz tank a much stronger version attack from piccolo, king vegeta trple planet bust which was around large star, another thing Saiyans scale to there space pod which is billions to trillions xftl
A saibaman is stronger than a viltrumite
The viltrumites have far better speed but splat when they hit stuff stronger which in this case is the sayians. Imagine speed blitzing yourself.
I just imagined a viltrumite stubbing their toes against a table and the toes explode
If we’re gonna be using the same Death Battle feat with the sun disc - shit.
I kinda refuse that Death Battle used that feat since even if we hypothetically used it, it’s more like a durability feat than a strength feat. That’s also implying Omni-Man could beat First Form Frieza which makes no sense.
Even using that Feat, they are still fodder for Frieza 1 form,Who has a Feat while sitting, barely straining and laughing, which is measured between 10⁴⁴ Joules to 10⁴⁶ Joules and It's clear that Frieza could try much harder than that.
I also refuse it because we see multiple times that a single Viltrumite would die if they tried going through a planet. A feat that takes leagues less energy than the output of the sundisk laser feat. This was stated by Thaedus when he, Mark and Nolan go through Planet Viltrum, and Thragg even implied that he needed the remaining Viltrumites to destroy earth which is smaller than Viltrum in size.
Let’s look at the evidence for Viltrumites scaling to the disc, which is Theadus just saying “We now have a list of weapons and beings that can hurt a Viltrumite” and thats it. This isn’t to say he isn’t wrong, the laser destroying the sundisk is capable of killing a Viltrumite, I am pretty sure he had it in mind, the problem is that a Viltrumite would be to fast to get hit by the laser and wouldn’t be effective against against an Army of them. Scaling each of them to a laser is an outlier
@@unknownbasic57Exactly what you said, there is also the fact that it could be that the Viltrumites are too small to hit properly with the laser, it is not concentrated enough
@@unknownbasic57well we know the space gun, can one shot of star but he still needed there help. It's definitely not a normal planet,
@@asura3229 my theory here is that the gun is an over hyped weapon. It is even a canonical thing that most of the infinity rays capabilities are speculative since no one was ever able to study it
It would already be hard if it's just the Saiyans vs. the Viltrumites, what with the Saiyans having the ability to increase their battle power through Zenkai boosts or the Great Ape transformation, but the fact that they're a part of the Freeza Force means that Freeza might reinforce them, and if he does, the Viltrumites are fucked. The average soldier in Freeza's force is as strong as Raditz, and they're numerous. Not to mention elite forces like the Ginyu Force and the Saiyan Elite.
Actually I think Frieza could possibly intervene and wipe out the Saiyans to replace with Viltrumites. Viltrumites would be everything Frieza wanted out of the Saiyans but without the flaws. No legendary Super Saiyan. No issue with loyalty Frieza's Empire and Viltrumites aligns and Viltrumites take loyalty very seriously. Tldr Frieza see's the potential in having the Viltrumites under his rule and wipes out the Saiyans early because with the Viltrumites he no longer needs them.
@FantomMisfit Viltrumites would never lower themselves to serve Freeza. They're even more racist than the Saiyans were. So no, Freeza would space the Viltrumites without a second thought.
I mean... Omniman/mark/whatever they called him on his homeplanet is pretty strong and could probably kill low ranking Sayans/non warrior ones.
But once more capable and army trained Sayans take to the battlefield even the strongest of Viltrum can pack their bags.
the statement about planet vegeta only having a few thousand sayians is because most of them are across the galaxy and do not remain in one planet, that possibly means there were alot more sayians
Bruh Viltrumites bouta get bodied so hard
0:34 if we're using the saiyan race on planet vegeta before frieza blew it up, why are we including characters like saiyan saga vegeta and nappa? vegeta would've been a child by that time, and very inexperienced compared to when we see them in the saiyan saga. that's like if we used the viltrumites before the scourge virus, and then included prime mark grayson from the end of the series 💀
1:03 ain't no Way Vegeta actually said that if he actually said that in the anime that would been goofy
Enough with all these stupid comparisons we all know both shows are awesome but scaling them to DBZ isn’t doing them any good. If you truly insist let’s just drop them ALL on present day planet Vampa, there’s a lonely saiyan there. I’d pay to see that lol.
Deal.
Great video!
I had no idea that the Tick and Invincible had a crossover. Neat. That aside, this matchup went about how I expected. Although, I'm still surprised that there are only a couple thousand Saiyans around at any given time.
If you can travle through spacw then locate enough kf your species elsewhere incase something that causes a mass extinction event happens like a giant meteor the size of jupiter hitting the planet and wiping out most life on it
@@The_Crimson_Shogun in all likelihood, that is a massive low-ball. Even if you assume that the Sayians were only 0.1% above replacement rate, over the 1000 years since the first SSJ you'd end up with something in the 500k range, assuming a 1000 Sayians bottleneck during that legend (likely, as it was during some extreme conflict). Even with that low-ball, the Sayians only need their top 5 to totally destroy every Viltrumite we know of, all at once.
I literally asked my friend about this yesterday, and I see this now.
Ask and thou shall receive.
I would say the Saiyans win the first rounds, but the Viltrumites would learn that Ki power/blasts are possible and would return stronger, knowing that there is more they can learn/grow in strength, and eventually win.
What makes you think they would live to tell about it. You think King Vegeta or Vegeta would let them leave? Nah they all getting vaporized
The only Satan big on mercy was Goku. Even Vegeta for a long while was out right finishing people these are people who's job was to wipe out all life on planets.
1. not everyone can learn Ki easily 2. that still wouldnt dismiss the massive power gap between the two races, sure they might have Ki but they would still get bodied by the Sayains power 3. if they tried to invade Vegeta the Sayains would 100% follow the retreat party home
Basically Viltrumites can run the fade with the Saiyans until the big dawgs show up ( King Vegeta, Vegeta, Nappa, and Bardock).
can they invade? yes.. can they win? just against the grunts.. and maybe as they can still energy blast cities. But i think you made the biggest case as to why they lose. Takes a whole of stuff like space racers gun 3 of them etc to blow up 1 planet. Most in dbz can do that easy as vegeta demonstrated and with no outside help. And omni man had a hard time to cyborg humans. Yea they not that strong bro, only relative to humans in their verse.
Even the most powerful Viltrumite could not even hope to beat Raditz, much less anyone stronger him. Invading Planet Vegeta would be calling down the thunder.
Splat factor goes brrrrt.
Didn’t Vegeta state that Power Levels correlate to speed as well. Because during the Namek Saga, Vegeta states to Cui. That when a characters Power Level increase, their Speed will multiply by that number. For example, if Oozaru Form is a 10x multiplier, wouldn’t that mean they would get 10x faster.
@@Benjamin-gm9qc yup
Viltrumites win hands down, the saiyans we see in Z are generally the peak of their people, far surpassing the rest, the average saiyan is equivalent to most of the frieza force. Also its worth keeping in mind that these peoples have roughly the same cultural values with 1 notable exception, saiyans have basically no sense of community while viltrumites are both absolutely loyal and very into their cultural identity. Saiyans are very willing to just cap each other the moment it becomes convenient even if they literally grew up together, while viltrumites defecting is so inconceivable that when nolan does it, they triple check the veracity of it with multiple sources and are still in disbelief when he straight up tells them and even then they bring him home for an official trial and sentencing.
I wonder if it's possible for the Saiyans to be "de-extinct" In a simmilar way that Scientists are planning to de-extinct the mammoth by basically creating Elephants with Mammoth traits so Hybrids.
If we include the movie Saiyan Turles and include Vegeta's brother that leaves us with 8 Saiyans. 2 pairs of brothers ( Goku/Raditz and the Princes) a father and son (Peragus/ Broly) and the last 2 are unrelated probably.
Assuming there are Genetic samples from all of them is it possible to create a self sustaining population (a population that won't suffer from inbreeding and collapse slowly) of Half Saiyan Half Human hybrids ? Or atleast Hybrids that are 25% Saiyan, like Pan ?
I agree.
@@constantinethecataphract5949 In reality? Not likely. Even if you assume perfect genetic control, which we lack, 8 and 4 more half specimens are not sufficient to create a viable species. However, if Gohan and Pan is anything to go by Sayian Genes seem to operate differently from genes IRL. It could be that mating with humans would slowly turn the entire human race into a sort of half-sayian species, as in GT Goku and Vegeta Jr are spitting images of their ancestors. Not that GT is canon, but whatever.
@@lancelambert1644
Im using real world logic for the genes in this Scenario. Originally i thought a population might be theoretically possible if they are only quarter like Pan after researching how many men are needed for humanity to continue without inbreeding depression to occur but this isn't as applicable, also they clearly have better biotechnology in the DBZ universe. Im guessing it could be possible for quarter Saiyans if more Saiyan samples existed like say 15 instead of 8.
Half Saiyans as a population are straight up unsustainable longterm even with the advanced biotech unobtainium they have.
@constantinethecataphract5949 If you really want to play devil's advocate, you could use the namekian/super dragon balls to either 1) bring back some good natured Sayians for more initial input or 2) bring their bodies back for more genetic material to make "Fake Sayians" from, like how we use Mammoth Fossils. I assume simply restoring the Planet Vegeta would give enough Sayian genetic material to work with, if you wanna go that route, given they've been there for a minimum of 1000 years.
I do think because there are so many viltrimites they have a chance. Saiyans are generally a lot stronger and more likely to win.
If we're talking about before the destruction of the planet. In Canon, Bardock made a wish for both of his sons to thrive, so if Raditz is on the planet, there isn't a single thing viltrum can do.
Yeah sense raditz only died because he fought goku meaning the wish negated its self so if raditz was there he would win
1. Nolan one of the more powerful viltrumites got blitzed by red rush who is at most a little bit above SOL.
2. I'm like 90% certain The author themselves stated that viltrumite reaction speed depends on the speed they are traveling.
3. If we actually look at the scene where Nolan flies off to viltrum from earth he is in earth's atmosphere for several seconds but once he leaves the atmosphere he is able to traverse a much greater distance in what seems to be a similar amount of time. Implying either the atmosphere slows them down (which it would) and/or they take some amount of time to accelerate to those absurd speeds.
4. The flaxan planet, he is going all out and wants them all dead, with speeds millions of times the speed of light he should be able to turn the planet's surface to glass in seconds due to atmospheric friction but instead it takes him 30 years. Or if he truly is as powerful as you think he is he could just break the planet apart with his bare hands killing all of them, but he doesn't.
Dragon Ball character: casually blows up planet with the flick of a wrist
Also Dragon Ball character: frantically carpet bombing the ground trying to kill an enemy at their level and somehow the planet isn't instantly destroyed
Yeah I'm thinking DB is a gag manga
Bad point
its called having control over your power, these numbers are over inflated as omniman struggled with cyborgs. They barely worth using saibamen on.
There's no story if every ki blast blows up the Earth
Before Watching:
The Average Sayian outclasses the Average Viltrumite by a wide margin. Their Durability is actually comparable as far as fisticuffs, and the Viltrumites actually outspeed the Sayians by a fair bit (Sayians are ~5-9 times faster than light, scaling to Goku dodging Lasers with moderate difficulty at a power level of about 100, whereas even average Viltrumites are 10-100 Billion times faster than Light), but the Ozaru is just too much. A single Ozaru, assuming an average of 1,000 Power Level (That is WEAKER THAN RADITZ), could destroy the entire planet they are standing on. Even if you ignore the Roshi blowing up the moon thing, no Viltrumite has a comparable AP to that. They simply could not hurt an Ozaru, or the moon that makes them. So, the Ozaru stand on their planet, monkeying around, picking off a stray Viltrumite one by one. That is, until you reach the higher level Sayians. Though it seems logical to scale them linearly off of the Goku laser feat and placing characters like King Vegeta at around ~90xLightspeed, He actually has feats that place him far, far higher. He waves his hand and blows up *three different planets.* That is to say, his hand caused a power wave that traveled across a solar system in seconds. So either those planets were all in Earth-to-Moon distance of each other (not probable due to tidal forces), or DBZ doesn't know crap about space and just showed what they thought was cool with little to no thought about how it would actually work. King Vegeta waves his hands and all but the strongest Viltrumites are instantly turned to nothing. The strongest are then played with by the monkeys.
In short; monki see, monki smash
After Watching:
I think MrPerfectCell actually downplayed the distances crossed by the Viltrumites. Thraxia is placed in the "Virgo Supercluster," which is a very big place. It could be our galaxtic neighbor, or it could be incredibly far, far away. Highballing gets us my aforementioned 10-100 billion calc, but even if you assume that it is closer, ~50 Million Lightspeed is plenty fast for the point to be made. I also think that he somewhat downplayed their durability, given the Federation Cannons and their small planetary weapons can't hurt the Viltrumites. Now, I often think that "can't hurt" isn't "they stonewall," but rather that it is not sufficient damage to stop them from ripping the ship apart limb from limb with their teeth, but until we get to see what the cannons do to the Viltrumites we can high or lowball either way. Now, his Dragonball Speed is kinda silly, imo. That feat in general is really really dumb, because again, DBZ has no clue what space actually looks like. But taking it at face value, yes, the Sayians are in fact that fast, and the Ozaru are now able to speedblitz the Viltrumites. *In addition* to being star level in base form.
We win deez
Bro, no. Elite is MAYBE on star level, but that is it
@DarthNox66 What? Where are you getting that?
They aren't *MAYBE* star level unless your referring to the calculations being too high or wrong (which they aren't, they are right).
They are at the very least at that level, considering both Vegeta's did it with absolutely no effort. Prince vegeta using his finger to blow up a planet to small star levels of magnitude, and then we have King Vegeta simply waving his hand and eviscerating 3 planets to large star levels of proportions.
If they could simply cause that much destruction by waving their hand or pointing their finger, then it would be reasonable to assume if they poured their full energy into an attack, that they would wipe out a solar system *AT the very least*
You're very right about dbz not knowing anything about space, it showed it cause its cool, powerscaling makes no sense
I don't see anything wrong with star level Saiyans, when Goku with the Earth's genkidama was large star level
To clarify the calcs:
When, in dragon ball, a planet "blows up," it isn't just cracked in half and sent into a collision course with the star it orbits, it is so utterly obliterated that there isn't even a fine dust left. To do so, you don't need "planet" levels, that's what you'd need to just crack it, Kirby style. You'd need well into Dwarf Star levels, with Frieza's ball in his first form being calced at around Small Star fairly consistently. Elite Sayians being able to casually Dwarf Star three planets at once places them so far above anything Invincible has seen that it's not even funny. The *only* advantage they have is speed.
If a saiyan victory prob a saiyan-viltrum breed out populating both and definitely the saiyans, and if a viltrum victory the saiyan elites would be slaughtered and the lower class saiyans would now be the second or strongest of the viltrum empire, if thragg were to allow interbreeding, the viltrum empire would win in invincible, but its unlikely, thragg would still be looking for argalls line or if hes given up then a viltrum victory is gurenteed, abd if allan doesnt makes a viltrum-saiyan virus their aint no hope
You don't need to travel at Lightspeed to dodge a light speed attack. See you have to travel less distance than the light so you still have to go very fast but you don't necessarily have to be travelling at light speed since you don't need to go. As far as the light does, you can be travelling slower and still avoid it. But I do agree that every saying should be approaching the speed of light
@@solarwind I mean yeah that is true but obviously if some fires an attack at close range and you dodge it you would at least have to scale to the attack to some degree (although I’d argue goku actually traveled a greater distance than king piccolos light beam did)
Viltrumites: *INVADES PLANET VEGETA*
Saiyans: *MONKE*
Saiyan Pride!
They would be Monkey food🤣
6:10
He says “die on impact”
Not “the heat could kill us”
“Die on impact”
That leaves very little wiggle room for interpretation my guy.
you could argue that saiyan empire peak is just goku and vegeta during tournament of power.
Well, I agree with your assessment, but you forgot one very important variable sayings evolve during battle as you push them to their absolute limit and they're going to break those limits. So it's likely that a lot of them will start turning into Super saiyans and when that happens, I think the vultramites are going to start taking the L's
@@solarwind no absolutely not you need a pure heart and a high enough battle power to do that. None of them are doing either of those things
@@mrperfectcell5079 Thats 100% not true as weve seen alot of Sayains get Super without pure hearts. Vegeta being the biggest example, and zenkai boosts are something that all Sayains get. Dude why are you so dead set on viltrum even having a chance when they clearly wont
I'm imagining viltrumites land on some gigantic forests on planet vegeta (the kind that could accomodate hundreds of thousands of Great Apes) and got hunted by the Saiyans.
Asom.
4:00 WE SAIYANS HAVE NO LIMITS!!!!!🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 LET'S CHARGE TOGHETHER, AT FULL POWER!!!🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
It only takes a few exceptional Saiyans to beat who knows how many viltrumites
Imma be honest i believe you highe ball that planetary feat for the viltrumites with Mark and Omni man and the other dude cause he said they could die on "Impact" not the cores heat and space racer gun plaid a huge part and since it took 3 of them to do that at most you can say thats only like Moon + to just planetary and thats for Omni man and mark and the other guy
And going off that Piccolo feat Raditz would be 4 times stronger than that, so then that splat factor would literally come into play alot viltrumites would literally die trying hurt the average saiyan
@@thefirstprime0124 I don’t think the “impact” part means much. Like if you impacted the suns surface your obviously gonna burn to death “impact” just means to make contact with and considienrg joe badly end of series mark and thragg got fucked ik by the suns surface I wouldn’t be suprised if thesdus thought they would just melt
Both come out to around 10^34-35 joules the difference in power really isn’t that large
@mrperfectcell5079 it is that Large because it took 3 Viltrumites vs 1 Saiyans also space racer Weakened the planets Core which also helped them out with this feat and also the fact that they could have died is also another thing there's just too much going on with that feat that just doesn't compare them to Raditz
@ the thing is though is that space racer being there doesn’t matter. Robert Kirkman implies they could have done it without him so Theadus could have just been wrong (not to mention he isn’t even 100% sure if they would die) and Viltrum explosion is so large that even when dividing it by 3 it still comes out to around large planetary which is around the same level as piccolos
Moon bust
@mrperfectcell5079 Bruh space racer was literally a big point in that Feat and if they would have destroyed it without space racer then they most likely would have died because they wouldn't have had any help they would have been heavily damaged hell they took damage from doing that with space racer
Only successful outcome for the Viltrumites is that Frieza intervenes and wipes out the Saiyans to replace them with Viltrumites. They'd serve essentially the same role for Frieza as the Saiyans did but would be far more loyal than the Saiyans ever were and no threat of one becoming a Super Saiyan and overthrowing him. Edit: Power wise King Vegeta, Vegeta, Or Bardock could solo Edit: Bardock is actually above Nappa as Nappa's max is around 7500 and Bardock 10k was stated to rival King Vegeta. Frieza wiping out the Saiyans early in favor of the Viltrumites actually could happen Frieza only waited so long to wipe them out because as he said in the video losing the Saiyans would shrink his army too much but with the Viltrumites it wouldn't be an issue.
So how many planets were lost in this scuffle?
The answer is yes. Because Viltrumites don't have to invade by fighting. The Viltrumites biggest advantage is how their genetics work. Although if they decide to be stupid and attack head on yeah they lose badly.
Why does no one bring up that Viltrumites are Budget Kryptonians 😭😭😭
Alibaba kryptonians😭
OK, here’s an actual good question how strong would an offspring of both races be
Saiyans Mop the floor with viltrumites
IMO the veltrumite win due to the stamina and the speed factor.But like almost every other VS Battle strength isn’t an instant win con.
The veltrumite planet destruction feat (the sun disk either but eh) ain’t really an outlier since they should have planet lvl amount of power really.
The speed difference isn't that big, especially with Ozaru, and with the stronger Saiyans, they would actually speed blitz the Viltrumites.
@@yeikelamores6085 if it’s the elites then they win but every one else like nappa and raddizs and Bardock (depending if it’s Z or super)
Omni man himself proves that speed doesnt win a fight alone either when he crushes red rushes head, and as for stamina and durability, the Sayains have been shown to be faster then light and able to tank absurd attacks, like when bardock survived insides Frezias supernova, which puts him above viltums as his skin didnt start to melt off
@@mrlemons4406 Thats not how that works Bardock doesn’t scale to that because he quite literally died to it.
Veltrumites are easily MFTL+ since they are able to fly half way across the galaxy within a week.
Red rush was massively MASSIVELY slower than Omni-man so what’s ur point?
@@Purple_23184 my point is you cant use space travel as speed points, there is no friction in space ergo you can go infintely faster, but when you look at any example of omniman on earth hes always slower then the average Sayain or even human. its like comparing a spaceship to an airplane
Omni Man power level:2500, Nappa power level:4000+
He lives
The problem is that Dragonball is very bad at communicating its scale with visuals. When you see Nolan fly to fast he starts glassing cities by proxy it feels a lot different
It should really be "can the viltrumites intermingle with the saiyans), then we have genetic hybrids that would dominate the world
At least people in the comment section aren't stupid💀
I don’t think we can really use ki feats of DBZ to compare a viltrumite’s physical feats since they’re not the same. It’s like bringing a gun to a fist fight. Also, I think a viltrumite’s speed negates any significant ki technique/blast a DBZ character could generate.
@@Nahnonope well ki is used to amplify one’s physical capabilities, so this would apply to the saiyans physical strength and speed as well.
Can you elaborate on why you think their speed would negate their ki blasts?
Apparently those speed feats aren't actual raw speed, Their smart atoms kinda just allows then to kinda teleport around that is why they are so fast, realistically in space they are ftl but on a planet MHS.
Kid Goku have FTL+ Feats and is stated not only in the anime (Via Young King Piccolo) but also in guides to be planetary.
nuff said.
@@onyx6774 the databook that says that more so links it to a theory and even describes teleportation as requiring the user to either create a portal or a “fade” where the user appears to fade out often unevenly, neither of which happening to viltrumites, so it’s probably just their raw speed
The guide also clarifies that these are the ONLY TWO WAYS a living being could utilize sub space teleportation which does just tell us that viltrumites are not teleporting
@@mrperfectcell5079 "It is apparent that the same mas creation process that allows inertial flight (See Smart Atoms) is closely related to Subspace teleportation. When Inertial flight operates at maximum speed, each change of atomic mass is accompanied by a tiny subspace jump. effectively multiplying Omni-man's apparent velocity to well above the velocity of light."
It never states it was a theory tho.
Raw speed I would say they would scale to Allen. but that is basically it.
@@onyx6774 yeah im aware of the statement but the same guide contradicts itself by also describing this as just a theory, and saying that there are only two ways a living organism can have subspace teleportation, neither of which line up with the viltrumites do even by their own description
What if they intermingled ? Imagine their offspring 😦
Should be a death battle scenario
Can Tien survive mortal kombat
Lmao
Yes
2 hydrogen bomb vs 50 coughing baby
Basically, if we talkin including first super saiyan / super saiyan god, no explanation needed, saiyans solo
King vegeta destroying multiple planets isn't filler ?
Because even perfect cell stated that his attack will destroy the solar system
1-It's canon, it happened in Kai too and honestly, it's consistent with feats both before and after,Roshi and Piccolo's feats are consistently calculated between 10³⁴ to 10³⁶ Joules and they only got less than 400 when they did that,King Vegeta and Vegeta's Feats are estimated to be between 10³⁸ to 10⁴² Joules and They have between 10 to 20 thousand and Frieza has Effortless Feats between 10⁴³ to 10⁴⁶ Joules,The power jump is Consistent
2-Cell is MASSIVELY ABOVE the solar system, whether by scale, calculations or simple math
@yeikelamores6085 Exactly perfect cell is massively above solar system by calc but that go against his statement
Also Vegeta stated that his final attack can destroy earth in the sayan arc while piccolo destroying the moon is calc to large planet
It's obvious these calcs are inconsistents
@RedLights9000-f3l 1-Did you forget that the solar systems in DB are MUCH BIGGER than ours?
2-It's not just calculations, but also feats of characters far inferior to Cell have feats far above the solar system.
3-Cell never said that was the limit of his power, it was just what he wanted to destroy, besides DC and AP are different
4-The point is that the attack is going to destroy the earth, not that it only has the minimum to destroy the earth,An attack could be star level and still be said to be going to destroy the earth,Also remember that the attack was to kill Goku and the earth,Which meant that the attack had the power to kill Goku and still had enough strength to destroy the Earth.
@yeikelamores6085
1- source?
2- no it's only calcs and the obvious ones are anime fillers
3- there's no reason for cell to limit himself he almost died five minutes ago also the databook never said he limited himself while supporting the solar system statement
4- Goku was already dead at this point cell didn't say that until he went super perfect cell
@@RedLights9000-f3l 1-TH-cam for reasons beyond my control does not let me put a link,But it is the fact that solar systems are galactic nebulas composed of innumerable Stars in DB, even assuming we are only using a small nebula as a reference, the energy needed is still multi solar system+
2-There is nothing wrong with using calculations and Feats, especially the anime that is canon
th-cam.com/video/SwXDBT5MiRU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=r8S3HbvNzsiw8ze1
3-Don't know the difference between AP and DC?An attack can have a much larger attack power than its destructive capacity, Cell was not holding back on his AP, but he was limiting his DC,Which is something very common in DB and fiction
4-I think you just don't understand what you're talking about.
Okay so this is just a genuine opinion for me before I watch the video.
Now I can't remember where I heard it but apparently in the Dragon Ball universe it takes the power level of around 10,000 to destroy a planet the size of Earth.
We also know that it took three very powerful vulturemites to destroy which is about twice as big as Earth. So let's assume that it would normally take a power level of about 20,000 to destroy planet Viltrum. Now if we assume each viltrumite involved was the same power level that would give each one of them roughly a power level of about 6,666 (repeating) and they did this with pure physical strength.
Now assuming they're invading planet Vegeta which only has a full moon once every 10 years this could actually be a problem for the saiyans. Especially because viltrumites ARE faster.
You got to remember the saiyans on a population of less than a thousand and their average warrior isn't all that powerful. Nappa had a power level of 3000-5000 and was considered an elite. The only saiyans that could easily kill a viltrumite are Bardock, the king and the prince who have power levels of 10000 around 10000 and 18000 respectively.
So while I am not saying that the saiyans lose I am absolutely saying this would not be as much of a wash as some people think it is but that's just my educated opinion.
All right I'm going to actually watch the video now 👍
1 in Dragon ball when referring to a planet it noting a planet bigger then earth, as characters note earth is tiny, meaning in dragon ball the earth is consider a dwarf planet,
2 Viltrum is stated to have, 1.25 gravity of earth, so if you consider it bigger, then is basically a lightweight planet being less dense then the earth, like comparing a small rock to large empty soda can
@@spinozilla2421 If it’s 1.25x Earth’s gravity with way higher size, that may actually lower its GBE significantly compared to a denser planet with that gravity. So yea, agreed, not a good argument in favor of Viltrum if that’s the case.
I'm sorry but the viltrumites are getting no diffed and you can't convince me otherwise
The Sayans clear low diff. The scale higher, are faster, arguably equal if not slighty superior than the Viltrumites, and are more durable. Orzaru and potential Super Sayans are just overkill
how are viltrumites planet level? needing to fly through a planet is not the same as being able to atomize a planet with a blast.
Definetly not, roshi's moon feat can be gotten to the power to destroy earth 8 times over, no viltrumite gets to that level exept for maybe the high tiers and saiyans are way stronger than roshi.
Much more than 8 times
A Sayian Viltrumite Hybrid would the the strongest warrior of the universe.
Bardock solos the viltrum empire LoL
yeah, saiyans were sent as children to conquered entire planets. all by there selfs.
ALSO, each saiyan is on average above 2,000.
500 is enough to put a hand up into the sky, shoot a ki blast, and explode the moon instantly.
soo, instant planet busters? each one. one, of the probably thousands of saiyans?
yeah. not really fare. the strongest of vitrolites is a Saiyan's weakest.
……….. 2 trillion to 1? Where did you get that? I thought there was less then 50 pure bloods in the empire?
@@digieykid6096 the video was using Viltrum BEFORE the scourge virus where they had a population so vast they could
make a giant ring around their planet composed entirely of corpses (calced to require 20 quadrillion bodies)
Compare this to saiyans having a population in the low thousands
@ Ah. Fair enough!😁
@@mrperfectcell5079 Idk where you think that number comes from but Frezia himself counts the Sayain population in atleast 6 digets, the only reason so few Sayains were on Vegeta is because they were spread across other planets
@@mrlemons4406 this is genuinely not true.
1. Freiza called all of them back to planet vegeta so there wouldn't be any on other planets.
2. The only place and time frieza says millions in regards to their population is TFS's abridged series which is a fan parody series and is not Canon. he never says that or anything like that in the actual series.
3. In dbs whis confirms that most of the remaining saiyans are on earth.
4. The several thousand for their population comes from Dragon ball minus a bonus series written and illustrated by Akira Toriyama. that trumps anything from any fan series.
5. This isn't really relevant but I want you to have an idea of the scale here. Even if we assumed it was true that they had millions of saiyans with trillions of viltrumites there would still be millions of them for every 1 saiyan.
6. I agree that saiyans win i just disagree with this point about there population being in the millions.
@@Bob44345 1. he calls them back because he wants to kill them duh
2. i wasnt talking about Abridged
3. we're talking both empires at their peak which is not DBS
4. Toriyama changes the Sayain total more than star wars changes the Jedi total
5. the fact that there is over a quadrillion bodies in space around viltrum means that the author just wanted a cool detail because how tf would they all get fed or sheltered?
6. i never said millions just that it was atleast 6 digets
Bardock casually laughing at this after beeting a heater who has beat goku with mui this is a sayin and viltrimites will die if they invade
I think I at the end, invincible is at least comparable to raditz but idk.
*Quantity ≠ Quality*
Quality>>Quantity
@@yeikelamores6085 Quality>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Quantity
You only need 1 broly
Dragon Ball "power scalers" won't let it go huh.
@@fatrat92 eh?
But death battle said omniman can beat super sayin bardock
Viltrumite aren't even touching Raditz
Raditz is one of the strongest Saiyan that lived, only behind Goku-Vegeta-Broly-Bardock-King Vegeta- Napa, we joke about him, but he was strong enough to be part of Vegeta Squad when he was still a kid, and beside he is in control of his Ozaru form so he would be a beast if the moon was full.
@@ZeroTaichiI don't know, it was said that Raditz was weakened when he was on Earth or something like that,I've seen some guides out there that say his actual power at max was 2500
@@yeikelamores6085 Yes he was weaken in a fight with Vegeta because they considered him dead weight, that the reason he when to earth to get is brother.
Hmm a race of planet destroyers vs a race that tanks literally everything, the same race that’s only weakness is literally to be stronger than them vs a race of monkeys who are ordered around by a little horned prick. Hmmm. At his strongest goku can’t touch Superman and at vegetas he was taken out by Thor. Man it’s crazy when changing your hair color or looking at the moon can’t save you from guys in caps who’s man powers are invincibility, to be stronger than literally everything, can survive in space, can literally pass through stars and escape black holes, can adapt quickly to literally any situation. I love also how changing your hair color and increasing every aspect of yourself by hundreds of billions of times is supposed to save you from someone who can think billions of thoughts and react accordingly before light reaches your eyes so you can perceive the fact that your disembodied eyes are floating in red mist that used to be your body. I know exactly what saiyans are and exactly what the can do and are capable of and the same of kryptonians, gods, and viltrumites, and brothers saiyans are mid tier outside of the dragon ball universe. Yes saiyans can destroy planets with the smallest of effort Nappa and vegeta proved that but when there are beings you can take your full powered attack from every color of the rainbow your hair maybe, the look at you after the fact, raise an eyebrow, and ask “is that it” you need to rethink your life choices. I’m not saying they wouldn’t put a fight, I sure it would be a valiant effort, a battle worthy of legends, but in the end the saiyans can’t stack up for a prolonged period. Saiyans still need food and rest, but that aside the majin buu in any form would put up far more of a fight. Because Magic! And the fact you can’t kill the buggers. Superman would be chocolate, Thor would be dead and omniman would probably be absorbed. I like saiyans far more than the other three but they are not all powerful, just because one is a saiyans does not mean it wins just because it’s a saiyan.
Baby broly solos all of viltrum
Z or Super?
@ super cuz idk bout z
Skibidi toilet vs viltirumite win world who
saiyans have dogsh!t endurance and durability compared to viltrumites, plus the viltrumites are a lot faster wich u did say in ur vid and they could prob just speedblitz everyone, the saiyan population is only serveral thousand, while according to google viltrumites before the scourge virus had a population of 23 quadrillion, plus bardock and the other saiyans couldnt even survive friezas first form, and yeah friezas first form is strong, but viltrumites like thragg omni man and mark can survive in the sun for a few minutes while bardock got turned to dust in just seconds by frieza, omni man could easily escape the pull of a black hole not even trying btw, and yes if the saiyans have great ape then they do have an advantage but they wont be any faster, and they do have strong fighters like nappa vegeta and king vegeta but they cant do sh1t bcz of the viltrumites outnumbering them. and i know that space racer had to destabalize the planet that omni man destroyed with 2 other viltrumites but space racers infinity ray can destroy whole stars and cause supernovas and his infinity ray couldnt even destroy that planet that easily. Viltrumites have infinite stamina while if a saiyan uses one single attack their stamina goes to sh1t and they cant do anyting,saiyans dont care about training and dont want to train while viltrumites do, plus the saiyans have tails and according to toriyama thats their weakness if the viltrumite grabs their tail its over, plus saiyans are cocky and stupid and they make dumb descisions. if the saiyans turned into great apes they would simply become a bigger target, also the viltrumites get stronger and stronger every time they get older and btw omni man is 2000 years old and they have an extremly long life span, the viltrumites will destroy the saiyans and ripp through their planet.
Yeah but viltrumites when they do attack someone that is stronger than them they tend to splat or break a limb kinda like when omniman broke his hand against thragg. If the Saiyans just in their base or worst in their oozaru forms will most likely not even feel hits from them. Remember just being near the hundred range of power levels is enough to destroy the moons. These Saiyans are like in the thousands and could easily destroy planets with ease. The oozaru form increases their stats by 10 times. Omniman and mark and that other viltrumite needed help and had to time it just right or else they would’ve died. Saiyans do train and get zenkai’s boost after recovering near death experiences. How would they know Saiyans tails are their weaknesses?
@@sabaibaikari7023 no that was the viltrumite thraxan hybrid the reason they splatted is bcz they were 50 % thraxan and tharaxans have very very bad durability
@@sabaibaikari7023 omni man never broke his hand against thragg
@@gemmygemerald ok and?
@@sabaibaikari7023 and? the viltrumites are quadrillions and the saiyans are only several thousands, plus viltrumites are more durable, can endure more, and are stronger
Viltumites can win by pulling a Frieza and destroying Planet Vegeta, they have the numbers. But, each Sayian could take on a significant number of Viltumites each. So if no planet busting takes place the Saiyan's will only lose to numbers in a drawn out battle.
@@HarryAyA it’s going to be hard for them to actually land a hit though with that speed gap even if they have trouble hurting them at first they are just gonna tire themselves out while the viltrumites continue pummeling them with their “unlimited stamina” and superior numbers
@@mrperfectcell5079Any Ozaru with a power of 40000 and above should be able to easily react to the Viltrumites.
I don't know if they have enough power to destroy Planet Vegeta, which is estimated to be at least It has a gravitational binding of at least 10³⁷ to 10³⁸ Joules
@ regardless on if that is true they would likely just blow up the moon they made
@@mrperfectcell5079 Characters from Invincible tend to go splat when they hit something harder than they are (To put it in simple terms).
So a lot of Viltrumites would cause injuries to themselves if this rule stays true when fighting something from outside their own Universe.
Despite that, I still believe under different circumstances the winner would change between between the two races, since one side has the numbers the other has strength.
Pull
You know there are Solar System arguments for Saiyans as well.
In Dr. Slump they state, that Earth is hundreds of time larger than are own. With character in OG Dragon Ball state that King Piccolo could destroy the Earth. If you do count Dr. Slump as canon. Although there are just multipliers as well. Because Master Roshi’s Moon Feat does have calcs that get Dwarf Star.
Since characters get Stronger and Faster in OG. Like Yamcha dodges light attacks from Chi Chi. Since he gets stronger in later arcs. He would be faster as well. Although this is my opinion, and I’ll respect yours
goku went to penguin village and has met arale so it should be also earth is considered a small planet by db standards