I completed the upgrade on my two Ultra Bookshelf and Ultra Center speakers. Sure, it takes some work but it is well worth it. Vocals are the standout improvement. I listen mostly to multichannel SACD classical. Soloists and Choirs are all improved. Much clearer. Overall improvement in instrument clarity. Now, given my results, I wish I could afford Danny's open baffle speakers.
Here are some of the reasons manufacturers do this : - Majority of people would never know what’s inside their speakers as they can’t access them. - It’s the best place for manufacturers to make extra profit. - Since most use the same or similar drivers in their products selling you an upgraded “ high end “ versions allows their customers an upgrade path. FYI: Some new speakers are sealed and glued in so you can’t get in without damaging them. I was able to upgrade my old pair of B&W Speakers but not my new Wharfdale EVO’s.
Order placed. Thank you Danny. It's barely audible through TH-cam, but this is a side by side comparison between upgrades on Carnegie CST-1's. Several of the high frequencies have more clarity and detail, and the low frequencies are fill the room more purely with less sound from the box. I will try a side by side with the Ultras also. th-cam.com/video/YeuULgzIUC4/w-d-xo.html
that's because they don't want to show SVS that they have shit components inside ! They scared ! Good on Danny to show people can buy parts to improve these nice speakers tho. One reason that sucks these days is buying speakers from factory and they skimp out on the important parts and make them "look" fancy ! Good Job Danny!
Companies should offer upgrades. If a Company is worried about going over a price point, they should offer upgrades for those consumers who are willing to buck up.
Hey Danny I'm very much interested on doing the replacement parts on the svs ultra towers, will you be doing another video by chance on the step by step ?? Thanks
Teasing us with great info on cables... 21:56 I was just about to pull the trigger on 25 feet of 24-strand DIY from GR-Research too! Now I gotta wait to hear the news!
Hi Danny, very interesting video. Improve you can certainly always something...there would be the question of whether expensive crossover parts also always dramatically improve the sound...that would be interesting to see how you test old against new in the sound comparison. Frequency curves are one thing, but sound in comparison much better to understand or hear.
North Texas sounds like heaven ;) If it's any consolation, living in a tropical climate isn't all beer and skittles - the heat melts your brain. No question - at least for me - that far more work gets done in a temperate climate and your efforts are proof of that. Thanks for the vide.
Could you do a video for the DIY crowd for a 3 way speaker and recommendations on what woofer, mid-range and tweeter choice & 3-way crossover on a budget?
I used bought and installed Danny's SVS Ultra Bookshelf upgrade with full norez installed as well. After the appropriate burn-in period I have been truly amazed at the improved sound. I cannot thank GR Research enough for great products, research and support.
Snake oil.... stuff off the shelf, then a guy comes on and says 50 cent parts... and you go I really just dropped a GRAND or more for this? So amazing to see an artist still giving a crap about ppl and getting a solution. Thanks so much for your channel.
I love this channel and I think that it's awesome to see the knowledge that Danny has! A question that I have been wondering about is what entry level/budget speakers roll off the line with decent internals and drivers. Say sub $1000.
the per unit price is because SVS does a lot of home theater, and people will buy a single speaker for the middle channel. Some people prefer to not buy a horizontal center channel and will by a regular speaker. Often this is done by people who put their speaker behind an acoustically transparent screen.
Order placed. Thank you Danny. It's barely audible through TH-cam, but this is a side by side comparison between upgrades on Carnegie CST-1's. Several of the high frequencies have more clarity and detail, and the low frequencies are fill the room more purely with less sound from the box. I will try a side by side with the Ultras also. th-cam.com/video/YeuULgzIUC4/w-d-xo.html
I wish that someone from Finland would send one of the Finnish made speakers to you like Chorus, Amphion, Gradient, OR (Olavi Räsänen) + a lot more. They are very popular here, but some say that they are a bit dry and lifeless sounding. I kind of agree, but your opinion would be so nice to hear :)
Hi Danny. Any chance of Ron doing a sound comparison of the stock SVS Ultra Bookshelves to the modified version? I think that was great when you guys did that with the Klipsch! I’m sure there are a ton of Ultra owners that would agree.
Danny's check list would be, after driver quality & placement on baffle, & baffle, not too wide- --then we examine the bracing & damping of the box; damping, ferro-,magnetic connector material (from drivers to crossover & to spkrs box connectors), - cheap crossover parts, just match, pay more, and get more without changing the deign. Danny confims that proper wire gauge matters, all the way from drivers back to the amp. With a software I presume golks could do their own measurements & change rolloff, tapering - but minus that, the other stuff is simple * logical - didn't know half of it, put drivers all over the baffle, when we built Philips kits in the 70s - used their cheapo crossovers pre-assembled if I recall My goal oow, remove tiny push/pinch connectors; remove level controls for mid & high - solder at drivers where we used crimped female spades - relocate mid and hi drivers to center of baffle. Two tweeters will be left over - we thought more, was better. Not so, as we learn from Danny!. Gauge damping & stiff walls, those we got, via flake particle board 3/4, doubled all around, with 2 bottles of Boandfast & Robertson screws
Thank you Danny! That was awesome. I've owned and enjoyed the Ultra Bookself speakers. At the time I was obsessed with finding the best value bookshelf and with U-BS side-by-side against Buchardt S400 found them different but essentially equal. Since U-BS are priced lower, gave the win to SVS on that comparison. I agree that the cabinets are very good, and despite these (easily-corrected) crossover issues, they are a very good choice for bookshelves. I moved on to floor-standers; otherwise, would have kept them. I did keep the Elac D2-6.2 (for the garage), because those were (by far) the best value at $200/pr delivered new. Think about this... you could buy 5 pairs of Elacs for cost of one pair of SVS Bookshelf - create a wall of Elacs (not that it would be a good idea - but you get the point).
What would be the cost for me to ship a pair of SVS Ultra Bookshelves and the SVS Ultra Center to be upgraded? Just for the labor since I can calculate the shipping and parts...just need to know the cost of someone that knows what they're doing to install for me?
Thanks Danny! just last weekend live cast by Ron @ New Record Day discussing if you have an upgratde kit for SVS bookshelf's. Would you be undertaking a project for SVS Prime bookshelf - same price point as Kplish;s RP 600? It's disappointing knowing SVS that advertises and personalizes messages as to high-quality parts to cut corners; like for cross over how much would it cost them (buying in mass) to use at least a reasonable level of conductors etc.
Would you recommend upgrading these now? Its a lot of money to throw at a center and pair of bookies. Is it good money after bad? Ive had mine for 3 years now. They image well. Ive enjoyed them. They’re my first “real” speakers. I understand they’re not anything special and im not emotionally attached to them. I wont be offended if they’re not great. $600-something just seems like it would go farther towards a new pair of bookies. Also i have enjoyed my bookies but hate the center channel. It sounds flat and shallow.
2 things: 1) Has anyone done this treatment to their Ultras? How'd you like it? 2) I recommend watching SVSs Outlet Store. I got my very slightly scratched Ultra Bookshelves for $350 a piece. Oh wait, 3 things.... He's ripping SVS pretty bad here but could one get a better bookshelf pair for $1,205 (the speakers plus his kit)?
According to Danny, even the Harbeths, which cost several thousands, use cheap, junky, parts. So very few exceptions, the answer is no. The parts in the small $3200 Harbeth P3ESR 40th Anniversary Edition Speakers (that Danny tested and has a kit for) are no better than the parts found in a cheap $120 Jamo S 801.
Dam Danny is passionate ! Thank you Danny Appricate all your hardwork and dedication , My brothers name was Danny also (Daniel) I miss my bro so bad lost him on labor day , my bro was my first audiophile partner since he was 11 years old ! I was 13 man life is tuff ! So i say audiophiles share your passion of audio with Family it gets no better than setting back with family enjoying the music !
Man, I am sorry for your loss. I lost one of my best audiophile buddies a few years back. I think of him often when playing the tunes that we used to listen to or play often at shows. The music brings back fond memories. I hope it will do the same for you.
The reality is that after your upgrade it will be the tiniest subtle difference in sound that almost no one will be able to hear. But the difference between 2000 and 2300 bucks is much more tangible.
Sorry I'm confused, are you saying that the upgrades he recommends aren't nearly as impactful as he describes? So thus these companies are actually justified in choosing cheaper parts, because better ones barely do anything?
@@ah.l At first thought I agree, but upon thinking a little more that's not necessarily the case. Companies design a product to perform to whatever arbitrary specifications they come up with, so as long as the product is meeting those specs - they almost have to cut costs wherever possible to maintain profitability. One thing I've seen with audio and video products is they often are selling a perception of quality more than a measurable quantifiable quality. That is, if their speakers 'sound' great to most people, why take a hit on margins by replacing the guts with better-measuring components if most people are already happy with how they sound? That all being said, it would be nice to do a blind A/B listening test between unmodified and modified speakers here to see if the measurable improvements end up being actually perceptible to the listener.
It does give a better clarity to upgrade the crossover. Just buy new caps with the same value for the tweeter circuit and you get rewarded direct. Go all the way with inductors, resistors and better binding post and internal cables, then you get even more rewarded. This does not change the measurement. Stiffened the cabinet inside with dynamat (car use) and some poly fill and you got a really great speaker. New crossover parts needs 100-300 hours of playing.
What kind of quality are the tweeters in the ultra towers? I bought a pair of Polk R700s and am disappointed in the tweeters in these speakers and will be returning them. Looking at these ultra towers as a replacement candidate. Looking for detailed and non harsh highs.
Thank you for the video re ultra upgrades. I really look forward to doing the upgrades once you have it. Can I ask! Is it something complicated to do to upgrade them.? Or will it be a plug and play upgrade.? I am thinking of buying these as a front tower and currently have the pb4000 svs, also ceiling speakers and rear. So to compliment my set up I thought of buying these ultra towers. Thank you once again so much, really interesting video
It is not only the quality of coils and capacitors that gives you good sound! If you have a speaker that does not have good sound, it is not just a matter of switching to high quality parts and you get good sound. You need to design the crossover filter properly to get good sound and then you can switch to extra good parts. In your videos it sounds like you are only using a measuring instrument but you are not listening to the speaker which is just as important!
The filter network measured fine. If the slopes and integration between drivers measure well, that's all you can do. The measured response will correlate with the listening. Other than replacing drivers entirely ( which makes no sense since you might as well get other speakers) all you can do is upgrade crossover parts which is the gist of the video.
I have built many speakers and do not agree. Example, if you have midrange / bass and treble in a box and have assembled the crossover filter in a certain way using capacitors coil resistors but do not get good sound, then it does not help to switch from cheap polypropylene capacitors to expensive or switch from cheap coils with expensive! If you have a lot of 400hz in the speaker then you need to make a circuit that lowers that frequency!
@@ford1546 Of course, but as I stated the speaker in question measured fine. If it measures fine all you can do is upgrade parts. I don't know how else to explain this to you.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt I agree with you in what you write. but if you have a lot of treble or too much of some frequency, extra good parts will not help! you have to change the crossover filter! And you can not only trust the measurement data but you have to listen to the speaker!
Hi Danny. Like your informative videos and...do you also listen to the speakers before and after your mods. They certainly measure better post-mods, yet would still like your opinion as to the changes in perceived sound. After all, that's where the rubber meets the road. Thanks!
Thank you for your honesty. As always. I have the Kef model 4.2 Reference speakers. They sound great. Have you ever seen these speakers inside and what is your opinion about it? Peace and love and of course High end. Greetings from the Netherlands Limburg Maastricht. ✌😘👌👍😉
it's a nice speaker the SVS Ultras, but the cost of the DIY is $705 USD, on $2000 speakers, that doesn't really seem worth it anymore. Also, the website for the SVS Ultra says "Please see the videos and measurements in the accordion below.", but there's nothing there, no measurements, no video. What's the before and after on the measurements for the SVS Ultra?
So for $2,000, full of super cheesy parts, and sounds like it is playing through a wet rage it is a nice speaker, but for $2,705 loading with top quality parts and playing real music, it doesn't really seem worth it?
@@dannyrichie9743 wow, hyperbole much? If they really sounded that bad, no one would buy them at that price range. No, cause that's NOT how you described it at all........ And yeah you also said "is it worth it spending 200-300$ maybe 350$ on parts" Yeah, at that price for sure. But it's double that on the site now. I'm sure the parts you specify make a noticeable improvement, for an additional 35% of TCO? I'd rather just get one of your kits instead.
@@AluminumHaste Building one of our kits is a better option if you weight out the cost to performance. But a lot of people like doing the upgrades and we've sold quite a few of these.
@@dannyrichie9743 It does look like a lot of fun soldering all those parts on the crossover, I would definitely enjoy doing it. BTW, have you had a chance to look at the crossover/measure the performance of the Paradigm 800F?
@@AluminumHaste One thing you need to realize, many of us bought the Ultra speakers due to reviews on the internet, and or our experience with their subwoofers, very few of us ever auditioned them prior to purchase. And yes, I know about the SVS audition and return policy. But, how am I to know what sounds good? Since purchasing the Ultra bookshelf speakers, I have started dabbling in other speaker purchases, most folks will never do that, it is one and done, the SVS or pick your flavor are good enough. Well, since playing with different brands, Klipsch, Cambridge, Warfedale, Polk, etc., I think the SVS Ultras could use some improvement, and it is nice to see Danny is actually doing something for folks like myself, as I do really enjoy my SVS speakers. I'm not going to throw them out, and to replace them with something better is going to cost me quite a bit, even going with one of Danny's kits... For a few hundred dollars, I can upgrade what I feel is a very good speaker, take it to that next level. Why not? the base is there, the cabinets are fantastic, 1 inch front baffles? Very few companies do that. The SVS Ultra speakers have a lot going for them. Like Danny says, parts quality matters.
Can anybody explain why you would want to do these "upgrades"? In my mind if you upgrade every speaker on the market to have a flat frequency response doesn't that make all the speakers more or less the same? Woudln't this take away the unique character of the speaker? If you want a flat speaker why not just research and find a speaker that has a flat frequency response?
Regarding the before/after graphs, what about that sharp little hump at 5Khz and the dip at 400hz? I guess the average is balanced but that still seems noticeable.
Anyone have a pair of Kef r300 or 500s local to Danny, would love to to see his take on them... I would send my own but they are really expensive to ship
Hey Danny....SVS claims a FR of 45-32,000 Hz (±3dB) with a sensitivity of 87db for the bookshelf........what is the final FR and sensitivity after the upgrade?
Love your work and video presentation. Finally someone online who knows what they are talking about has a love for what they believe in. Question thou. Do you rebuild crossovers for people who live in Australia.
Danny went on for quite a bit about per pair or per unit. I don't know if he doesn't realize that people are often building home theaters using SVS speakers, so a person might want 3 matching speakers for Left, Right, and Center.
Ive noticed a decent improvement in clarity by upgrading to 100% copper removed the junk i had on my speakers. Should have known this but relearning basics paying more attention to the small things do reap benefits. Went up to 10ga from 14ga. What are your thoughts on ferrite core use? In audio systems?
I watched a video from another TH-cam British audiophile and he was using these as line filters of said problem. wanted to hear Danny's take on this thought process.
@@dannyrichie9743 ok. I thought you had mesurement as i have ESL-X. Personally i made test with a miniDSP to find the frequency that is missing to find by ears that there is missing 2-3dB around 6-8khz. After that i tried to mesure it with my CLIOwin systeme but didnt see it on graph. Im wandering if it come from the fact that the speaker are bidirectional (sound emission from front et rear) and it is hard to measure...
So I had the Ultra Bookshelf in house demoing them for a couple of weeks, a few months back. It seemed so harsh and bright to me somewhere in the frequency response, and I just couldn't get past it. I'd even heard a few people refer to as warm or rich sounding, but that wasn't my experience. I had it powered with decent electronics, a Parasound Pre and Nad 275Bee amp, and tried a Yamaha AS-801 also. Would the 700-1000 region bump be the culprit for that? Thanks
@@dannyrichie9743 thanks Danny! While I wouldn't purchase the Svs just to fix the issue, at least now I know that if a speaker shows the same rise in that region, it's something I'm not gonna be interested in.
Great video! Very informative. I have 2 SVS PB16 ultra subwoofers which I’m not very happy with the low end response. Do you have a way of upgrading the crossover/amplifier without me having to ship to you the supper heavy subwoofer?
What are you expecting from them? My brother has one SB16 and it pressurizes his 30 ft x 15 ft living room and the adjoining dining room. Did you do the sub woofer crawl?
I have dual PB12-NSDs and they absolutely wreck a medium suze room, are you sure that they are adjusted properly?? Give us some details on the equipment used.
A lot of speakers like this are sold per unit due to some people using them also as the center channel in their setup (so 3 speakers). Buying two pairs for that purpose would be a waste, would it not?
The KEF Q3 floor standing speakers sound great they have the tweeter in the centre of the main speaker works well on my system sound stage is done well and the base response is very good
Great videos. Very nice inside information. Is it possible to bring these speakers to real 8 ohms? Is there a way to lower the frq response between 10 and 20 KHz? My amp is not hreally appy with 4 Ohms or less. Also it's a bit bright on the high freq's.
It is not possible to alter a speaker's impedance in any significant way without changing out all the drivers. This would then also require a complete crossover redesign because the crossover frequencies are impedance-dependent.
Hingtai capacitors are used by many speaker companies. Freaking cheap caps. My DCM have them too. They do sound like there's a blanket in front of them.
Yep, tried and returned my Ultras. Too edgy in the midrange. Decently stiff cabinet. Nice and punchy, but soundstage was poor. Close, but no cigar. Got Buchardt S300s. I’d like to see an upgrade for this. I know that their crossovers are not great.
I had the bookshelves briefly and just like Danny said, "it sounded like someone put a wet blanket on the speaker". Returned! If i had this upgrade a year ago, i would have kept it.
When i was shopping for new speakers, i could tell just from internet videos that the midrange on the ultra's was awful. No way I would have enjoyed that.
@@sepulsteve Joe N Tell had a collection of speakers destroyed in a storage fire, his Ultras survived, the Dentons and Pioneer FS52 towers weren't so lucky
Any guess at how much it costs SVS to manufacture those things? They charge a pretty penny for them and they're about to raise the price on them by another 20%, claiming they have to in order to stay profitable! I don't get why they have to raise their prices to stay profitable when they sell direct to consumer (no middleman) and yet companies like JBL and Klipsch are not only managing to keep their prices steady, they're still running their frequent 50% off sales!
Would love to hear from the manufacturer regarding these discoveries!
I completed the upgrade on my two Ultra Bookshelf and Ultra Center speakers. Sure, it takes some work but it is well worth it. Vocals are the standout improvement. I listen mostly to multichannel SACD classical. Soloists and Choirs are all improved. Much clearer. Overall improvement in instrument clarity. Now, given my results, I wish I could afford Danny's open baffle speakers.
Marcus did you take any pictures of the work you could share? I need to understand how to do the work, is just as easy as replacing parts?
@@qbaqban Danny has other videos on building the new point to point wired crossovers. Very easy to follow. Go for it
Another valuable lecture, thank you Danny, just watching this relaxes me :)
Here are some of the reasons manufacturers do this :
- Majority of people would never know what’s inside their speakers as they can’t access them.
- It’s the best place for manufacturers to make extra profit.
- Since most use the same or similar drivers in their products selling you an upgraded “ high end “ versions allows their customers an upgrade path.
FYI: Some new speakers are sealed and glued in so you can’t get in without damaging them.
I was able to upgrade my old pair of B&W Speakers but not my new Wharfdale EVO’s.
manufacturers who glue their stuff shut are such jerks lol
@@aerball Sony do that on their cheap shelf HiFi sets and the 7.2 HT
Great work Danny! My friend has these and I'll be helping him solder the kit. Can't wait to hear the difference.
Order placed. Thank you Danny.
It's barely audible through TH-cam, but this is a side by side comparison between upgrades on Carnegie CST-1's.
Several of the high frequencies have more clarity and detail, and the low frequencies are fill the room more purely with less sound from the box.
I will try a side by side with the Ultras also.
th-cam.com/video/YeuULgzIUC4/w-d-xo.html
Thanks Danny. Ordered the bookshelf upgrade. Almost finished with the center channel upgrade.
This was posted on an svs group on fb and it was removed lol!
sounds like how FB and moderators are removing the truth in our political environment...
@@thomasnew8606 Cencorship is the new norm haha 😂. Gotta go with the flow
Normally the fan page manage by SVS company. -.-
10.50 .....🙈
that's because they don't want to show SVS that they have shit components inside ! They scared ! Good on Danny to show people can buy parts to improve these nice speakers tho. One reason that sucks these days is buying speakers from factory and they skimp out on the important parts and make them "look" fancy ! Good Job Danny!
@@JasonLeaman most commercial speakers have shitty filter parts, except the more expensive ones.
I got these because I was hoping I would able to do exactly this and I got a great deal on them and to me they look amazing. Got the center also.
Can’t wait to see the before and after on the towers
Companies should offer upgrades. If a Company is worried about going over a price point, they should offer upgrades for those consumers who are willing to buck up.
I agree. We offer them on our products.
Hey Danny I'm very much interested on doing the replacement parts on the svs ultra towers, will you be doing another video by chance on the step by step ?? Thanks
Teasing us with great info on cables... 21:56 I was just about to pull the trigger on 25 feet of 24-strand DIY from GR-Research too! Now I gotta wait to hear the news!
The new stuff involves power cables.
Hi Danny, very interesting video. Improve you can certainly always something...there would be the question of whether expensive crossover parts also always dramatically improve the sound...that would be interesting to see how you test old against new in the sound comparison. Frequency curves are one thing, but sound in comparison much better to understand or hear.
North Texas sounds like heaven ;)
If it's any consolation, living in a tropical climate isn't all beer and skittles - the heat melts your brain. No question - at least for me - that far more work gets done in a temperate climate and your efforts are proof of that. Thanks for the vide.
Love those high quality heavy duty air coils you use.
Could you do a video for the DIY crowd for a 3 way speaker and recommendations on what woofer, mid-range and tweeter choice & 3-way crossover on a budget?
I used bought and installed Danny's SVS Ultra Bookshelf upgrade with full norez installed as well. After the appropriate burn-in period I have been truly amazed at the improved sound. I cannot thank GR Research enough for great products, research and support.
per speaker is good for those of us who use multiple main speakers etc for centre or other bed level positions :)
Hello from Denton, TX. Enjoy your videos. I'm thinking about some SVS speakers this summer and found this very interesting.
The single pricing Is a home theater thing. People need 3 for the “front stage”. Left center and right
Or 1 speaker needs to be replaced. Cmon Danny get with it!
Agree with that, use the same speakers for center channel give you the perfect sound balance.
Hopefully someone will send in the prime bookshelf and center. I would love to see the comparison!
Allways great to watch this genuine evaluation....of speakers construction....
you have got rid of 1 problem in sounds but you have a bump in brighter areas that should have been lowered
Snake oil.... stuff off the shelf, then a guy comes on and says 50 cent parts... and you go I really just dropped a GRAND or more for this? So amazing to see an artist still giving a crap about ppl and getting a solution. Thanks so much for your channel.
I love this channel and I think that it's awesome to see the knowledge that Danny has! A question that I have been wondering about is what entry level/budget speakers roll off the line with decent internals and drivers. Say sub $1000.
the per unit price is because SVS does a lot of home theater, and people will buy a single speaker for the middle channel. Some people prefer to not buy a horizontal center channel and will by a regular speaker. Often this is done by people who put their speaker behind an acoustically transparent screen.
To be fair some people put them in the center for the (home theater) front stage.
Exactly, three identical LCRs across the front.
That's what I strongly recommend, what I currently have, as well as what I've always done.
"That Home Theater Dude" probably want to have a word with you lol
I'm in! 😎
I expect to be ordering this week !
Woo-hoo! Thank you Danny!
Order placed. Thank you Danny.
It's barely audible through TH-cam, but this is a side by side comparison between upgrades on Carnegie CST-1's.
Several of the high frequencies have more clarity and detail, and the low frequencies are fill the room more purely with less sound from the box.
I will try a side by side with the Ultras also.
th-cam.com/video/YeuULgzIUC4/w-d-xo.html
Danny,
i like your videos, but you make this one truly amusing. Thank you.
Listed per speaker because some people use 3 of the same spears for Front stage in a theater setting.
Yes agreed
I wish that someone from Finland would send one of the Finnish made speakers to you like Chorus, Amphion, Gradient, OR (Olavi Räsänen) + a lot more. They are very popular here, but some say that they are a bit dry and lifeless sounding. I kind of agree, but your opinion would be so nice to hear :)
Cold and wet, nasty in Sand Springs, OK also. Thanks for the tech talks, Danny!
Looking forward to getting your SVS Ultra Tower upgrade!
Thanks for clarifying some of the BS those companies throw at us!
Hi Danny. Any chance of Ron doing a sound comparison of the stock SVS Ultra Bookshelves to the modified version? I think that was great when you guys did that with the Klipsch! I’m sure there are a ton of Ultra owners that would agree.
i cant wait to see the upgraded parts. i was looking at buying these speakers
Danny's check list would be, after driver quality & placement on baffle, & baffle, not too wide- --then we examine the bracing & damping of the box; damping, ferro-,magnetic connector material (from drivers to crossover & to spkrs box connectors), - cheap crossover parts, just match, pay more, and get more without changing the deign.
Danny confims that proper wire gauge matters, all the way from drivers back to the amp.
With a software I presume golks could do their own measurements & change rolloff, tapering - but minus that, the other stuff is simple * logical - didn't know half of it, put drivers all over the baffle, when we built Philips kits in the 70s - used their cheapo crossovers pre-assembled if I recall
My goal oow, remove tiny push/pinch connectors; remove level controls for mid & high - solder at drivers where we used crimped female spades - relocate mid and hi drivers to center of baffle.
Two tweeters will be left over - we thought more, was better. Not so, as we learn from Danny!.
Gauge damping & stiff walls, those we got, via flake particle board 3/4, doubled all around, with 2 bottles of Boandfast & Robertson screws
Some people use a bookshelf or tower as a center I guess that's why they sell them as a single.
I wonder if he sells a kit to remove the beanie from my head. seems to be disrupting the signal path, especially in the high frequencies.
Thank you Danny! That was awesome. I've owned and enjoyed the Ultra Bookself speakers. At the time I was obsessed with finding the best value bookshelf and with U-BS side-by-side against Buchardt S400 found them different but essentially equal. Since U-BS are priced lower, gave the win to SVS on that comparison. I agree that the cabinets are very good, and despite these (easily-corrected) crossover issues, they are a very good choice for bookshelves. I moved on to floor-standers; otherwise, would have kept them. I did keep the Elac D2-6.2 (for the garage), because those were (by far) the best value at $200/pr delivered new. Think about this... you could buy 5 pairs of Elacs for cost of one pair of SVS Bookshelf - create a wall of Elacs (not that it would be a good idea - but you get the point).
What would be the cost for me to ship a pair of SVS Ultra Bookshelves and the SVS Ultra Center to be upgraded? Just for the labor since I can calculate the shipping and parts...just need to know the cost of someone that knows what they're doing to install for me?
Thanks Danny! just last weekend live cast by Ron @ New Record Day discussing if you have an upgratde kit for SVS bookshelf's. Would you be undertaking a project for SVS Prime bookshelf - same price point as Kplish;s RP 600? It's disappointing knowing SVS that advertises and personalizes messages as to high-quality parts to cut corners; like for cross over how much would it cost them (buying in mass) to use at least a reasonable level of conductors etc.
Would you recommend upgrading these now? Its a lot of money to throw at a center and pair of bookies. Is it good money after bad? Ive had mine for 3 years now. They image well. Ive enjoyed them. They’re my first “real” speakers. I understand they’re not anything special and im not emotionally attached to them. I wont be offended if they’re not great. $600-something just seems like it would go farther towards a new pair of bookies. Also i have enjoyed my bookies but hate the center channel. It sounds flat and shallow.
Cool projects you are doing.
2 things: 1) Has anyone done this treatment to their Ultras? How'd you like it? 2) I recommend watching SVSs Outlet Store. I got my very slightly scratched Ultra Bookshelves for $350 a piece. Oh wait, 3 things.... He's ripping SVS pretty bad here but could one get a better bookshelf pair for $1,205 (the speakers plus his kit)?
According to Danny, even the Harbeths, which cost several thousands, use cheap, junky, parts. So very few exceptions, the answer is no. The parts in the small $3200 Harbeth P3ESR 40th Anniversary Edition Speakers (that Danny tested and has a kit for) are no better than the parts found in a cheap $120 Jamo S 801.
Dam Danny is passionate ! Thank you Danny Appricate all your hardwork and dedication , My brothers name was Danny also (Daniel) I miss my bro so bad lost him on labor day , my bro was my first audiophile partner since he was 11 years old ! I was 13 man life is tuff !
So i say audiophiles share your passion of audio with Family it gets no better than setting back with family enjoying the music !
Man, I am sorry for your loss. I lost one of my best audiophile buddies a few years back. I think of him often when playing the tunes that we used to listen to or play often at shows. The music brings back fond memories. I hope it will do the same for you.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thank you Danny .
@Jingle Nuts Thank you Jingles
The reality is that after your upgrade it will be the tiniest subtle difference in sound that almost no one will be able to hear. But the difference between 2000 and 2300 bucks is much more tangible.
Sorry I'm confused, are you saying that the upgrades he recommends aren't nearly as impactful as he describes? So thus these companies are actually justified in choosing cheaper parts, because better ones barely do anything?
@@wesleyleigh4063 danny is also pointing that for that price all parts should be of top quality.
@@ah.l At first thought I agree, but upon thinking a little more that's not necessarily the case. Companies design a product to perform to whatever arbitrary specifications they come up with, so as long as the product is meeting those specs - they almost have to cut costs wherever possible to maintain profitability. One thing I've seen with audio and video products is they often are selling a perception of quality more than a measurable quantifiable quality. That is, if their speakers 'sound' great to most people, why take a hit on margins by replacing the guts with better-measuring components if most people are already happy with how they sound?
That all being said, it would be nice to do a blind A/B listening test between unmodified and modified speakers here to see if the measurable improvements end up being actually perceptible to the listener.
It does give a better clarity to upgrade the crossover. Just buy new caps with the same value for the tweeter circuit and you get rewarded direct. Go all the way with inductors, resistors and better binding post and internal cables, then you get even more rewarded. This does not change the measurement. Stiffened the cabinet inside with dynamat (car use) and some poly fill and you got a really great speaker. New crossover parts needs 100-300 hours of playing.
hello audio super hero how about do a test / upgrade of their SVS prime pinacle tower speaker it seems to be the new(er ) bad boy in town !
Have you analyzed any possible upgrade for the SMS Ultra Tower?
What kind of quality are the tweeters in the ultra towers? I bought a pair of Polk R700s and am disappointed in the tweeters in these speakers and will be returning them. Looking at these ultra towers as a replacement candidate. Looking for detailed and non harsh highs.
Is there gonna be upgrade of ultra towers?
Good stuff as always!
Maybe one single for a center channel 😊
Thank you for the video re ultra upgrades.
I really look forward to doing the upgrades once you have it.
Can I ask! Is it something complicated to do to upgrade them.? Or will it be a plug and play upgrade.?
I am thinking of buying these as a front tower and currently have the pb4000 svs, also ceiling speakers and rear. So to compliment my set up I thought of buying these ultra towers.
Thank you once again so much, really interesting video
Very interesting. Do you have the frequency response of the Ultra Tower after implementing the upgrades?
It is not only the quality of coils and capacitors that gives you good sound! If you have a speaker that does not have good sound, it is not just a matter of switching to high quality parts and you get good sound.
You need to design the crossover filter properly to get good sound and then you can switch to extra good parts.
In your videos it sounds like you are only using a measuring instrument but you are not listening to the speaker which is just as important!
The filter network measured fine. If the slopes and integration between drivers measure well, that's all you can do. The measured response will correlate with the listening. Other than replacing drivers entirely ( which makes no sense since you might as well get other speakers) all you can do is upgrade crossover parts which is the gist of the video.
I have built many speakers and do not agree. Example, if you have midrange / bass and treble in a box and have assembled the crossover filter in a certain way using capacitors coil resistors but do not get good sound, then it does not help to switch from cheap polypropylene capacitors to expensive or switch from cheap coils with expensive!
If you have a lot of 400hz in the speaker then you need to make a circuit that lowers that frequency!
@@ford1546 Of course, but as I stated the speaker in question measured fine. If it measures fine all you can do is upgrade parts. I don't know how else to explain this to you.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt I agree with you in what you write.
but if you have a lot of treble or too much of some frequency, extra good parts will not help! you have to change the crossover filter!
And you can not only trust the measurement data but you have to listen to the speaker!
@@ford1546 Yes, true.
Awesome video as always!!!
Hi Danny. Like your informative videos and...do you also listen to the speakers before and after your mods. They certainly measure better post-mods, yet would still like your opinion as to the changes in perceived sound. After all, that's where the rubber meets the road. Thanks!
I have spent a considerable amount of time listening to and comparing each individual part and learning what the audible effect is.
@@dannyrichie9743 Great. Care to share your before and after impressions?
@@edoz46 The parts that offer the greatest improvement and best value are the parts I choose to carry. That should tell you a lot.
Excellent video Danny👍👍
Great work! Could you a review jbl 530 and what could be improved on these?
New record day had a pair and I don't think Danny wanted to change anything IIRC. Probably be the same case as the ultra towers. Change the quality.
Thank you for your honesty. As always. I have the Kef model 4.2 Reference speakers. They sound great. Have you ever seen these speakers inside and what is your opinion about it? Peace and love and of course High end. Greetings from the Netherlands Limburg Maastricht.
✌😘👌👍😉
it's a nice speaker the SVS Ultras, but the cost of the DIY is $705 USD, on $2000 speakers, that doesn't really seem worth it anymore. Also, the website for the SVS Ultra says "Please see the videos and measurements in the accordion below.", but there's nothing there, no measurements, no video. What's the before and after on the measurements for the SVS Ultra?
So for $2,000, full of super cheesy parts, and sounds like it is playing through a wet rage it is a nice speaker, but for $2,705 loading with top quality parts and playing real music, it doesn't really seem worth it?
@@dannyrichie9743 wow, hyperbole much? If they really sounded that bad, no one would buy them at that price range.
No, cause that's NOT how you described it at all........ And yeah you also said "is it worth it spending 200-300$ maybe 350$ on parts" Yeah, at that price for sure. But it's double that on the site now.
I'm sure the parts you specify make a noticeable improvement, for an additional 35% of TCO? I'd rather just get one of your kits instead.
@@AluminumHaste Building one of our kits is a better option if you weight out the cost to performance. But a lot of people like doing the upgrades and we've sold quite a few of these.
@@dannyrichie9743 It does look like a lot of fun soldering all those parts on the crossover, I would definitely enjoy doing it.
BTW, have you had a chance to look at the crossover/measure the performance of the Paradigm 800F?
@@AluminumHaste One thing you need to realize, many of us bought the Ultra speakers due to reviews on the internet, and or our experience with their subwoofers, very few of us ever auditioned them prior to purchase. And yes, I know about the SVS audition and return policy. But, how am I to know what sounds good?
Since purchasing the Ultra bookshelf speakers, I have started dabbling in other speaker purchases, most folks will never do that, it is one and done, the SVS or pick your flavor are good enough. Well, since playing with different brands, Klipsch, Cambridge, Warfedale, Polk, etc., I think the SVS Ultras could use some improvement, and it is nice to see Danny is actually doing something for folks like myself, as I do really enjoy my SVS speakers.
I'm not going to throw them out, and to replace them with something better is going to cost me quite a bit, even going with one of Danny's kits... For a few hundred dollars, I can upgrade what I feel is a very good speaker, take it to that next level. Why not? the base is there, the cabinets are fantastic, 1 inch front baffles? Very few companies do that. The SVS Ultra speakers have a lot going for them. Like Danny says, parts quality matters.
I see the bookshelf upgrade. Will there be an upgrade option for the ultra towers?
I would love to send in my SB3000 and PB13 Ultra. I would want to know the difference if there would be any.
Can anybody explain why you would want to do these "upgrades"? In my mind if you upgrade every speaker on the market to have a flat frequency response doesn't that make all the speakers more or less the same? Woudln't this take away the unique character of the speaker? If you want a flat speaker why not just research and find a speaker that has a flat frequency response?
Have you ever worked on Definitive Technology speakers? I have a set that I'd love to do some upgrades on.
Hi Danny, great informative video. Do you have any kits available for the Elac B6? No hurry, just curious. Thanks
Regarding the before/after graphs, what about that sharp little hump at 5Khz and the dip at 400hz? I guess the average is balanced but that still seems noticeable.
I do like my ultra towers but if I can get them better then they already are sign me up
You should do Stand Up, Keep Safe , Keep Warm and Dry. Perseverance gets you to Mars.
Anyone have a pair of Kef r300 or 500s local to Danny, would love to to see his take on them... I would send my own but they are really expensive to ship
Hey Danny....SVS claims a FR of 45-32,000 Hz (±3dB) with a sensitivity of 87db for the bookshelf........what is the final FR and sensitivity after the upgrade?
Love this guy
Love your work and video presentation. Finally someone online who knows what they are talking about has a love for what they believe in. Question thou. Do you rebuild crossovers for people who live in Australia.
Danny went on for quite a bit about per pair or per unit. I don't know if he doesn't realize that people are often building home theaters using SVS speakers, so a person might want 3 matching speakers for Left, Right, and Center.
Yeah, quite short sighted for someone with so much foresight.
Ive noticed a decent improvement in clarity by upgrading to 100% copper removed the junk i had on my speakers. Should have known this but relearning basics paying more attention to the small things do reap benefits. Went up to 10ga from 14ga. What are your thoughts on ferrite core use? In audio systems?
Ferrite core is actually even worse than iron core mate. Saturation of that thing is huge and makes huge distortion...
Ferrite core is external used for emi or Rf interference. line noise filter.
I watched a video from another TH-cam British audiophile and he was using these as line filters of said problem. wanted to hear Danny's take on this thought process.
Without compromise to their bottom line.
No expense spared to source the cheapest chinesium parts.
Wait the crossover is that small? For how much these cost thats really it?
Any update on when you high end speaker kits will be in stock?
they price them as singles probably because they primarily cater to the home theater enthusiast. would be my guess
What model of martin logan will you analyse ? Is it the ESL ? I have the ESL-X and really exited to know your result about it.
It was the ESL-X and it got a new crossover design with higher quality parts.
@@dannyrichie9743 oh nice. Can we find the result somewhere pr it still coming soon ?
@@simoto8327 The owner just left with all new parts, No Rez, tube connectors, etc. I look forward to hearing what he thinks.
@@dannyrichie9743 ok. I thought you had mesurement as i have ESL-X. Personally i made test with a miniDSP to find the frequency that is missing to find by ears that there is missing 2-3dB around 6-8khz. After that i tried to mesure it with my CLIOwin systeme but didnt see it on graph. Im wandering if it come from the fact that the speaker are bidirectional (sound emission from front et rear) and it is hard to measure...
@@simoto8327 I had no issue measuring them. So me an email about them and I'll send you over the before and after measurements.
So called upgraded parts don't necessarily mean better sound. Likewise with graphs it's all subjective.
Can you talk about the jbl 250ti, is it worth upgrade ?
So I had the Ultra Bookshelf in house demoing them for a couple of weeks, a few months back. It seemed so harsh and bright to me somewhere in the frequency response, and I just couldn't get past it. I'd even heard a few people refer to as warm or rich sounding, but that wasn't my experience. I had it powered with decent electronics, a Parasound Pre and Nad 275Bee amp, and tried a Yamaha AS-801 also. Would the 700-1000 region bump be the culprit for that? Thanks
That is a hot spot and and area of brightness right at the top or just past the vocal region. That is not a good place for a humped up area.
@@dannyrichie9743 thanks Danny! While I wouldn't purchase the Svs just to fix the issue, at least now I know that if a speaker shows the same rise in that region, it's something I'm not gonna be interested in.
Great video! Very informative. I have 2 SVS PB16 ultra subwoofers which I’m not very happy with the low end response. Do you have a way of upgrading the crossover/amplifier without me having to ship to you the supper heavy subwoofer?
What are you expecting from them? My brother has one SB16 and it pressurizes his 30 ft x 15 ft living room and the adjoining dining room. Did you do the sub woofer crawl?
They’re most likely out of phase.
I have dual PB12-NSDs and they absolutely wreck a medium suze room, are you sure that they are adjusted properly?? Give us some details on the equipment used.
Get a minidsp 2x4HD and use REW, simple
A lot of speakers like this are sold per unit due to some people using them also as the center channel in their setup (so 3 speakers). Buying two pairs for that purpose would be a waste, would it not?
Center channels are expected to be listed as prices per speaker. Main speakers are not.
The KEF Q3 floor standing speakers sound great they have the tweeter in the centre of the main speaker works well on my system sound stage is done well and the base response is very good
Great videos. Very nice inside information. Is it possible to bring these speakers to real 8 ohms? Is there a way to lower the frq response between 10 and 20 KHz? My amp is not hreally appy with 4 Ohms or less. Also it's a bit bright on the high freq's.
It is not possible to alter a speaker's impedance in any significant way without changing out all the drivers. This would then also require a complete crossover redesign because the crossover frequencies are impedance-dependent.
@@Orcinus24x5 an L pad will do the trick no?
well done mate
Will GR Research ever consider making an upgrade for Tekton speakers?
I have already for one of them.
Hingtai capacitors are used by many speaker companies. Freaking cheap caps. My DCM have them too. They do sound like there's a blanket in front of them.
Good thing Danny makes loud speakers, because there is no one else in the world that knows how to make a good loudspeaker.
;)
GREAT VIDEO!
It's per unit so you can buy one if you blow one up!
Great Job! ✌
Yep, tried and returned my Ultras. Too edgy in the midrange. Decently stiff cabinet. Nice and punchy, but soundstage was poor. Close, but no cigar. Got Buchardt S300s. I’d like to see an upgrade for this. I know that their crossovers are not great.
I had the bookshelves briefly and just like Danny said, "it sounded like someone put a wet blanket on the speaker". Returned! If i had this upgrade a year ago, i would have kept it.
When i was shopping for new speakers, i could tell just from internet videos that the midrange on the ultra's was awful. No way I would have enjoyed that.
@@sepulsteve Joe N Tell had a collection of speakers destroyed in a storage fire, his Ultras survived, the Dentons and Pioneer FS52 towers weren't so lucky
Any guess at how much it costs SVS to manufacture those things? They charge a pretty penny for them and they're about to raise the price on them by another 20%, claiming they have to in order to stay profitable! I don't get why they have to raise their prices to stay profitable when they sell direct to consumer (no middleman) and yet companies like JBL and Klipsch are not only managing to keep their prices steady, they're still running their frequent 50% off sales!
@@-elijahriggs- Hi SVS!!!
Sound quality being end goal, would you choose the klipsch or the svs towers to start off a fun modding my project?
You'll get overall better sound with the SVS.
Hi Danny. There are some frequencies that tend to stick to the tweeters on my ultra towers. Do you think this can be fixed ? It yes, how ?