LOL you are so right. I've always thought the way Lena walks as Cersei is probably one of her best physical acting qualities and I don't think everyone appreciates that the way I do haha
Love the pained look on Cersei's face as she gets a hug from her daughter in law . Then has the pointed comment about the wine ..lol .. She actually hesitated and was almost at a loss for words .
@@melissah9125 I think it’s so well-scripted with Marjorie going a bit too far on purpose. At this point she has the upper hand against Cersei so she pushes her. Cersei comes with guards at her back, but Marjorie has the Court. She reminds her that she is Queen now, not Cersei. The Tyrells keep the realm afloat with their food and gold while the Lannisters drown in debt. Marjorie’s only real miscalculation is she did not correctly estimate how far Cersei was willing to go. I don’t think anyone did..
@@Jay-xs2ug Margaery did know how far Cersei would go though. She tried to warn the imbecile high septon and tried to leave but realised this a bit too late.
I think before this at times Margaery even had Cersei fooled ‘Do you think she’s intelligent? I can’t quite tell’ but after this exchange, Cersei was in no doubt that Margarey knows exactly how to play the game. Marg just thought now she’s was married that would be it for Cersei, but she came back swinging
Oh how I wish Margaery hadn't done this. It pushed Cersei into overkill...Loras in a cell, both him and Margaery arrested, the Faith Militant, power struggles over Tommen, and then Cersei destroys the whole lot of them in the Sept. That is one narcissistic Lannister :0
@@janellejulianajoyThey’re both women. Honestly, what would they even do with such power/influence over Tommen? At least with Margaery, she has a very well proven track record of using her power/influence of making life/society better for the common people. What has Cersei done? And what goals exactly would Cersei use her power/influence for? If she wants power just for the sake of having power, that’s a very silly goal. If she wants power for more nefarious reasons, then all the more reason for Cersei to be stopped then.
Cersei was already planning to do it. Plus Cersei fired the first shot by saying she will have Margaery strangled in her sleep for simply calling her sister. cersei made an enemy out of whole cloth.
By the way, Margaery, if you were wondering where you went wrong as the Wyldfire rumbled beneath you, it was right here. This, a most crucial and seemingly ordinary moment in your life, was where you burned the bridge you needed to rebuild. When will people on this show learn, that the moment you feel the most safe is the moment you are most vulnerable?
Yeah and Margaery to Cersei " i took from you all you cared about, you are alone and your existence is painfully than a definitive death. Enjoy you short miserable life , wihout kids, wihout jaime, wihout the house Lannister that you destroyed, wihout love, wihout power, you are sat on a thrones wihout power and all westeros and Danenerys are against you. Absolutly all westeros laughted about your walk of shame witch was your symbolic death. if you think death is the end and mean victory, then you know nothing. Everyone will remember me like the most altruistic, charismatic and beautiful queen, my name will be honored when you will die and be remembered like the most pathetic and worst woman Westeros had ever meet. I won Sister.
Have I misread the scene here....or was Cersei hear to genuinely offer an olive branch to Margery only for it to descend into a bitch fest (as Margery was showing off in front of her Ladies in Waiting)
billydeeuk Cersei was nearly crying at the start, I think she was trying to be nice but Margaery really annoyed her due to the "Queen Grandmother" line. Also I imagine the wine line got too her
No, ofc she's faking it! Especially at this point! She was scheming and Margaery saw right through it and knew already that no matter what Cersei would always hate her like she did poor innocent Sansa! All Cersei cares about is to be Queen and it matters to her way more than her childrens personal lives and happiness.. which btw was the case with many middle age royals but Cersei is actually psycho murderous too..
As soon as I heard Margaery call Cersei "Dowager Queen", I knew that a war was gonna start between Margaery and Cersei. Women hate it when they get reminded of their age
This conversation basically was like “Hey Cersei I have your son under my thumb and there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it. Also we bang all the time and I’m going to have your grandbaby. And P.S. you’re an alcoholic.”
I look at this scene so sadly. After Cersei and Tommen talk about casterly rock she went to Margery to be nice. She tried to play nice with another house for the sake of her son and Margery treated her like trash. I feel like this was one of the rare times Cersei tried to play nice for the sake of her children and she gained a ton of respect in my opinion
If tyrells went to robb or kept them not interfere during battle of blackwater, stannis would've won and Lannisters wiped out from there itself what should i say tywin is a manipulative one
It's actually disturbing me how scene writers haven't noticed this mistake. Dowager Queen means widow wife of previous king. Cersei wasn't Joffrey wife, soo she shouldn't be called Dowager Queen. She is queen mother/queen regent.
Its a reference to Robert, who was a previous king, and how she only had power/titles when he was king, but now that Tommen is, she ain’t got shit and is just a tired old drunk.
@@justadult3493 I don't know what you are on about. There can be more than one Dowager Queen. The only requirement is that they are widows of a late King. Take for example, when Elizabeth II became Queen, her grandmother Queen Mary and her mother Queen Elizabeth were still alive and were both known as Dowager Queens. Although her mother was later known as Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother just to avoid confusion with her daughter of the same name.
This scene was so lovingly made. Every movement meant VOLUMES. Margaery remaining sitting as the queen reagent entered to indicate that Cersei isn't rightfuly the boss anymore. Cersei taking a leal/obedient (by Cersei standards) tone. Margaery fake smile as Cersei departs into relaxing her face into smiling jovialy before twisting around as though she wasn't with her fangs out. IMMACULATE. 10/10
Like say what you will "Margaery fuckt up here" but like she was playing the game. She had to wrench the iron throne away from Cersei and unfortunately for Margaery, she had people she actually loved. Cersei never truly loved anyone but Jaime. And did he (in the books) come to her when she called for him? No. Cersei destroyed a whole place and for what, her own vanity. She continued to destroy and destroy until she ran out of children
redfox555 Shes speaking Cerseis language. Snide remarks are all that Cersei makes esp. to Tyrion. If Cersei had threatened to kill me and I could make fun of her, Id take the opportunity cause Id know that no matter what, she d always want my head just for having married her son (like with Sansa)
@@margaritanoir Cersei never wanted Sansa's head. Mid-late game Sansa is arguably a better player than Margaery. They all have things they could learn from each other.
@@mau1132 Margaery actively taunted and provoked Cersei after Joffrey's death for no reason (calling her sister again, dowager the queen, flaunting her sex life with Tommen, etc). Sansa at this point would have kept her mouth shut, only saying things when there is something to gain from it.
"What is the record, I'm sure we could break it!" Say what you will about Tommen as a king, but I respect his lofty aspirations as a lover. Who knows, given enough time he could have rivaled Oberyn or even Pod himself.
@@kingkongchief1177 just because u technically have options as a bisexual doesn’t mean you use them all lol it’s the free sexual mores he has in general that would make him have the higher body count, not his orientation
She really got outclassed here, Cersei is usually the best at ‘Kinga landing speak’ (under the surface jabs). But she just kept coming back to say ‘if you need me’ as Marg called her an alcoholic, said that Tommen was ‘half lion half stag’ - probably a reference to him being the result of twincest, and then reminded her when Marg has a baby she’d have even a lesser title/power 😭
I love how the one handmaiden is clearly freaked out as Margaery starts to piss off Cersei, she is smarter than the whole bunch of them combined. Let's hope she saw the writing on the wall and run back to Highgarden when Margaery was arrested.
I like when cersei walks away Margerys smile drops and it turns into a "mmm maybe I shouldn't have said that" Then turns back to "She probably will forget it haha"
dowager queen isn’t really a bad thing though. It just means you’re a widow. Unless she took it as an insult to be recognised as *Robert’s* Widow of course.
I'm obsessed with the focus on political intrigue and infighting in the earlier seasons, the way they have this subtle verbal warfare where they exchange insults that are so subtle that they can't be called out because it's under this thin veil of courteousness - the shade of it all
Some people you just don't taunt. Margaery already knew Cersei had the King and his Hand killed. Cersei literally threatened to have her strangled for calling her "sister." I know Margaery is good at manipulating men, but if she had two brain cells to rub together she would have made peace with Cersei. She didn't deserve her fate, but she was totally asking for it.
Margaery just wanted to be Queen I never understood why ppl would say she would’ve made a great queen when we don’t know that. Her and her grandmother would do whatever they wanted to get what they wanted and no one else mattered. Margarey talked to Cersei that way because she thought cersei was going to casterly rock and she would ultimately rule. She was too conniving and she wasn’t genuine and it back fired on her. The same way it did for cersei 😊
This is the only time I felt that Margaery went maybe a bit too far. Not that I blame her, but maybe this wasn't necessary. Taunting a lion (or in this case a lioness) just when it's about to finally calm down is never a wise thing to do. Just sayin'
Bro fuck Cersei though. Margaery calling her a drunk is pretty tame compared to Cersei basically saying i’ll kill your ass like we did with the Reynes if you call me sister.
"Half Lion, half stag", even the ladies in waiting found that one funny. But on a serious note- something that I noticed just now. Margaery didn't get up for Cercei or show any curtesy with a bow or anything similar. Only her company did. Just an enthusiastic "Mother!" (If you ever call me sister again, I'll have you strangled in your sleep) lol. Showing her that's *she's* the Queen now.
meh, Cersei would have wanted to kill her either way. Plus its mostly the high sparrow's fault Cersei blew up the scept, not to mention the death of Myrcella and her imprisonment really did something with her sanity
But I think the real problem was not Margaery's sass towards Cersei in the scene. But the fact that she tried to send her away to Casterly Rock and Tommen - ô sweet T - wasn't so subtle about it.
The real problem was that Margaery was too sweet, she couldn't consider murder but she should have, she tried to return Cersei to Castral rock because Cersei was an obvious vicious parasite but this plan was too sweet, she should have tried to poison cersei, sadly she wasn't as crual as Cersei that's the problem.
@@sonoftheway3528 basically. If Joffrey had been too young to take the throne she would have just been dowager Queen. But because Joffrey took the throne immediately after Robert’s death she’s Queen Mother, because she is the mother to the current monarch. Same rules when Tommen is king too
@@autumnfranklin6790 Wouldn't she be both? And what if Joffrey had been to young to take the throne? Who would take the throne then? also, how did she become queen at the end of the show? I know the writing was shit then but, was there any actual succession rules that essentially made her queen regnant?
@@sonoftheway3528 yes she is both. But Queen Mother is the more important title. Kinda like how Princess Kate is both Duchess of Cambridge and a princess. The duchess part is the more important title, so she is referred to as that first as a symbol of respect If Joffrey was too young to be king the hand or his mother could have ruled in his place with Joffrey as more of a figurehead before he came of age. That’s what Robert initially wanted with Ned before he died. Also kinda like how Alicent and Otto ruled when Viserys got really sick. They claimed to do things with his wants and needs in mind, but they made all the executive decisions And there’s really no explanation for Cersei being queen except she was the only thing close to royalty the crown had. However the writing was bad, if it was more accurate, the crown would have gone to Robert Baratheon’s eldest living cousin
I see an angry cercei, I think this clip should be call: margaery's death sentence, because margaery practically says cersei is a drunk woman and an old lady, that was the spark on the cersei's mind to create a plan againts her
cersei plotted against marge from day one. she was scared of her since she believed she was the princess from maggy the frog prophecy. marge lowered her guard here and got too comfortable believing she already defeated cersei. the tyrells believed cersei would not act against them since she needed the men and food from the reach but they underestimated how petty and crazy cersei is. cersei's madness was let loose after tywin died since no one could keep her in check.
currently re-watching the show and i'm curious if this was a smidge of genuity from Cersei in an attempt to prevent a power-struggle over Tommen, but Margaery ignores it and continues to antagonize Cersei...or was Cersei already intent on engaging in a subtle verbal battle & Margaery simply reciprocated the passive-aggressive, backhanded energy?
Cersei seemed more genuine to me here at least on some level. This was one of the first times she truly looked pained/stunned at someone else’s comments.
@@sebastianrioux fully agreed - i definitely think cersei was trying to genuinely make amends & prevent any more power struggles, at least for a time, because margaery turned out to be a lot more capable of "playing the game" then anyone thought. such a masterfully done scene.
Cersei antagonized her first back in season 3 so of course Margaery would give it back to her. Plus, I don’t think Cersei was ever trying to be genuinely nice to her or to anyone in fact.
@@garlantyrell6368 of course, Cersei did start it, but i definitely think even Cersei was blindsided by Margaery's prowess and cunning. hence the attempt to make amends, to stop them from fighting over Tommen to the death (literally) but, as we know, Margaery wasn't giving Cersei an inch of ground. and what we got as a result was DEFINITELY a struggle to the (fiery) death lol
I don't understand why Margaery is mean to Cersei. In this scene, and I think it's the only scene in the whole show, Cersei looks like she really tried to be nice.
Agreed! It definitely seems like Cersei is at least attempting to swallow her pride here. However, I feel like a Margery-Cersei friendship never would've worked anyway. They, fundamentally, want the same things: power and the throne. And at the end of the day, only one could have it. Cersei would've never been content sitting second chair to Margery and vice versa.
@@lindoralindt4131Exactly this! Marg did NOT forget that moment in the Sept where Cersei threatened her. Which is why she called her sister again during Tommen’s crowning and did all of this here. Cersei was petty af but so was Margaery lol
Cersei used to being in control, always telling people what to do, usually in a very discourteous manner, never warm. But here she is forced to be polite. It's interesting that in this unfamiliar situation she takes a leaf out of her brother's book. Tyrion, always the charmer, of course being used to the dynamic of being unwanted in a social setting. Watch Tryion's entrance to Kings landing in season 2. "Dear sister, more beautiful than ever. War agrees with you!" Excellent writing.
Margery what are you doing?? This was the one time Cersei tried to open up and be kind and she just stomped all over it. That was the chance to actually form a friendship with Cersei
Margery was smart and I do think she could have been a good ruler. I do agree that in this moment, she let her cattiness cloud her judgment. Allying with Cersei was a much better choice than pissing her off. However, I do also feel like Margery never would've been truly safe aligning with Cersei. Cersei was a woman who put herself and her family above all else. Yes, Margery was married into the family, but she was not blood. So I do think Cersei would've allowed Margery to become collateral damage if push came to shove. I think even if Cersei and Margery developed a friendship it would've been doomed to fail simply due to their incompatibility in goals. They both wanted power at the end of the day. And both women couldn't be THE Queen, as Margery said she wanted to be. Margery, even if she'd aligned with Cersei and had not been catty in this scene, I think was much too ambitious, well-liked, and crafty for Cersei to ever truly trust or like her. Ironically, the only way it would've worked, I think, is if Cersei had someone like season 1 Sansa for Tommen. Someone who was naive and young, who just wanted to marry a prince, have babies, and have a fairy-tale romance. Not someone like Margery who wants power, who was smart and who would challenge Cersei.
@@r.s6187 I still think that Margery would be making the smarter move by at least showing kindness to Cersei when Cersei showed kindness to her. Keep your guard up at all times, yes-but don’t openly mock her when she shows you an ounce of vulnerability.
@@jukihiw Oh I totally agree. Like I said I do think she let the power and cattiness go to her head. Because she "won" and got what she wanted, she assumed she was safe to belittle and mock Cersei. Would've been much wiser to show kindness. But yeah I do think Margery was doomed either way, even if she'd been nice to Cersei.
@@r.s6187 Yeah doomed either way is good way to put it. I wonder if Tommen had really told his mom how much he loves her if that could have helped protect her.
Cersei didn't like Margarey but I think by the time cersi blows up the Sept she was over both her and her son. They were loyal to the church the church had already had the ppl on its side. And for the king and queen to be down as well meant she would have definitely stood trial and would have to announce that the king was a product of inscist which would have stripped them all of power anyways. So she figured hey may as well blow them all up since they are probably about to lock my ass up anyways. She blew them up and regained all power back. Her son jumping out of the window was just a moment for her. She was over it and him at that point. Which is why she wanted his traitor ashes places in the sept.
I forget, what was the point of this scene? Did Cersei give Margaery a last chance to save herself or was this part of a bigger scheme to make it look like she had nothing to do with the Tyrell's imprisonment that followed soon after?
that's what i'm wondering. currently re-watching the show and i'm curious if this was a smidge of genuity from Cersei in an attempt to prevent a power-struggle over Tommen, but Margaery ignores it and continues to antagonize Cersei...or was Cersei already intent on engaging in a subtle verbal battle & Margaery simply reciprocated the passive-aggressive, backhanded energy?
williamtitan Remember that Mira's last scene with Margaery was after Joffrey's death but before Tommen's wedding , so probably at this time of the story she would be either dead like Ned Stark or "trying to marry" the bastard who put her in a cell
four times is not even close to the record. king Robert made the eight in a single day by bringing one girl from each of the kingdoms to his bed chamber (+ the riverlands).
This scene is one of few mistakes by Margaery in the show. Cercei is coming to Margaery and, essentially, admitting defeat. Earlier, Cercei told Margaery "if you ever call me sister again, I'll have you killed in your sleep." Here, Cercei admits the only power she has left is that which Margaery allows her to have. Instead of sharing her power or being gratious in victory, Margaery chooses to rub her victory in Cercei's face. Because of this interaction, Cercei doubles down on her plotting and resolves to claw back power by any means necessary. Margery has the chance to defang Cercei permanently, and instead chooses to gloat over someone who is losing, but not out of the game yet. You can trace back the mistakes of the Faith Militant and the destruction of the Cept of Baelor to this exact conversation.
Margaery *couldn't* share power with Cersei. If Margaery gave her an inch, Cersei would take it a mile. The only thing she could do to keep in control was occasionally let Cersei have her own way, either in gracious defeat or just giving it to her ("Of course you may have that").
The way Cersei storms off with her escort is amazing. There's something so intimidating yet majestic about the way Cersei walks with her guards.
I've always loved the way she walks. Especially when she clasps those hands together. That's how you know she means business. 😭
LOL you are so right. I've always thought the way Lena walks as Cersei is probably one of her best physical acting qualities and I don't think everyone appreciates that the way I do haha
She's the ultimate real Queen of the show. Regal.
There is something majestic about the way Cersei does anything, frankly.
She was called alcoholic, old. Surely a naïve spoiled brat like her won't stand up to that 😂
"Can we bring you some wine? It's a bit early in the day for us..."
Translation: "giiiiirl you an alcoholic."
THE SHADE OF IT ALL
Love the pained look on Cersei's face as she gets a hug from her daughter in law . Then has the pointed comment about the wine ..lol .. She actually hesitated and was almost at a loss for words .
It sucks that Margery went just a bit too far. She was PERFECTION till this scene
@@melissah9125 I think it’s so well-scripted with Marjorie going a bit too far on purpose.
At this point she has the upper hand against Cersei so she pushes her. Cersei comes with guards at her back, but Marjorie has the Court. She reminds her that she is Queen now, not Cersei. The Tyrells keep the realm afloat with their food and gold while the Lannisters drown in debt.
Marjorie’s only real miscalculation is she did not correctly estimate how far Cersei was willing to go. I don’t think anyone did..
@@Jay-xs2ug Margaery did know how far Cersei would go though. She tried to warn the imbecile high septon and tried to leave but realised this a bit too late.
I think before this at times Margaery even had Cersei fooled ‘Do you think she’s intelligent? I can’t quite tell’ but after this exchange, Cersei was in no doubt that Margarey knows exactly how to play the game. Marg just thought now she’s was married that would be it for Cersei, but she came back swinging
0:28 Cersei *screams internally*
"I wish we had some wine for you, but it's a bit early in day for us" Wow she just called Cersei an alcoholic lmao
Yep Cersei was becoming a drunkard...Just like Robeert
I think the handmaidens laughing was Cersei biggest issue 😭
Oh how I wish Margaery hadn't done this. It pushed Cersei into overkill...Loras in a cell, both him and Margaery arrested, the Faith Militant, power struggles over Tommen, and then Cersei destroys the whole lot of them in the Sept. That is one narcissistic Lannister :0
Cersei is mad and hates everyone, it would have happened no matter what Margaery did
It's Cersei's fault too. She could have made an ally in Margaery (and Sansa for that matter), but she chose not to.
@@bigbadseed7665 You cannot make an ally with someone who wants just as much power as you.
That was never going to happen.
@@janellejulianajoyThey’re both women. Honestly, what would they even do with such power/influence over Tommen? At least with Margaery, she has a very well proven track record of using her power/influence of making life/society better for the common people. What has Cersei done? And what goals exactly would Cersei use her power/influence for? If she wants power just for the sake of having power, that’s a very silly goal. If she wants power for more nefarious reasons, then all the more reason for Cersei to be stopped then.
Cersei was already planning to do it. Plus Cersei fired the first shot by saying she will have Margaery strangled in her sleep for simply calling her sister. cersei made an enemy out of whole cloth.
damn Tommen got stamina
Gods he was strong then
If I had Natalie Dormer for a wife I wouldnt be tired in bed either
@@uglukthemedicineman5933As well as the writing 😅
0:23 absolute shot fired!
I love this scene. Literally every moment and sentence had an insult hidden underneath lol.
By the way, Margaery, if you were wondering where you went wrong as the Wyldfire rumbled beneath you, it was right here. This, a most crucial and seemingly ordinary moment in your life, was where you burned the bridge you needed to rebuild. When will people on this show learn, that the moment you feel the most safe is the moment you are most vulnerable?
That is so true. Not only for Game of Thrones.
Cersei from the Red Keep: "Oh and Margaery...it's Queen Mother."
Yeah and Margaery to Cersei " i took from you all you cared about, you are alone and your existence is painfully than a definitive death. Enjoy you short miserable life , wihout kids, wihout jaime, wihout the house Lannister that you destroyed, wihout love, wihout power, you are sat on a thrones wihout power and all westeros and Danenerys are against you. Absolutly all westeros laughted about your walk of shame witch was your symbolic death. if you think death is the end and mean victory, then you know nothing. Everyone will remember me like the most altruistic, charismatic and beautiful queen, my name will be honored when you will die and be remembered like the most pathetic and worst woman Westeros had ever meet. I won Sister.
Tyrel Blaxis Nah Margaery can't say anything anymore soz
+hdn byrne It don't matter,she didn't have to say anything, it is obvious, Cersei know and smart people know that, Margaery won for an eternity.
It’s sad that Tommen died, but from that conversation you can tell he knew how to LIVE lol
cersei: dammit that witch maggy was right....
Cersei’s power walk! Goosebumps ⚡️
The way Cersei said "anything you need" like "watch your mouth" so good
This scene has so much shade it's perfect
Have I misread the scene here....or was Cersei hear to genuinely offer an olive branch to Margery only for it to descend into a bitch fest (as Margery was showing off in front of her Ladies in Waiting)
billydeeuk Cersei was nearly crying at the start, I think she was trying to be nice but Margaery really annoyed her due to the "Queen Grandmother" line. Also I imagine the wine line got too her
billydeeuk I don't think we'll ever know for sure, and I generally wouldn't expect that level of maturity from her. But it certainly seems that way.
No, ofc she's faking it! Especially at this point! She was scheming and Margaery saw right through it and knew already that no matter what Cersei would always hate her like she did poor innocent Sansa! All Cersei cares about is to be Queen and it matters to her way more than her childrens personal lives and happiness.. which btw was the case with many middle age royals but Cersei is actually psycho murderous too..
Marg signed her death warrant 😂
This made Cersei into a domestic terrorist
As soon as I heard Margaery call Cersei "Dowager Queen", I knew that a war was gonna start between Margaery and Cersei. Women hate it when they get reminded of their age
I can't concentrate when Natalie Dormer smiles, I missed some of this scene.
Margery doing her victory lap
Can someone translate? I can't find my English-to-Bitch dictionary.
+Wendy Liu Basically.
This conversation basically was like “Hey Cersei I have your son under my thumb and there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it. Also we bang all the time and I’m going to have your grandbaby. And P.S. you’re an alcoholic.”
season 3 episode 8, that's what made margery like that in the end...
YESSSSSSSSSS! :)
I love the shade Margaery throws
"Half lion half stag" hmm
They're fake af lmao
this is where high sparrow born ..
This is Dynasty meets Melrose Place in the Seven Kingdoms
I look at this scene so sadly. After Cersei and Tommen talk about casterly rock she went to Margery to be nice. She tried to play nice with another house for the sake of her son and Margery treated her like trash. I feel like this was one of the rare times Cersei tried to play nice for the sake of her children and she gained a ton of respect in my opinion
Cersei is never trying to be nice, especially not to Margaery of all people. The last time they talked, she threatened to strangle her in her sleep
Imagine if those to were allies..
Losing team for sure, both of them will only go their own ways which would meant they will have a poor team chemistry
cersei knew she had to bomb her
That wasnt very nice laughing at cerci ,she should of been more careful messing with cerci.
Is it possible one of the Margaery's handmaiden is Mira Forrester ?
Btw, why Cersei fucked up with Margaery?
If tyrells went to robb or kept them not interfere during battle of blackwater, stannis would've won and Lannisters wiped out from there itself what should i say tywin is a manipulative one
Nothing infuriates a beautiful woman more than calling her grandmother
"How do we address you now? Queen mother or dowager queen"?
*Cersei.exe has stopped working*
The moment she used the word "Dowager Queen", I knew that Cersei wouldn't be able to take that standing down.
It's actually disturbing me how scene writers haven't noticed this mistake. Dowager Queen means widow wife of previous king. Cersei wasn't Joffrey wife, soo she shouldn't be called Dowager Queen. She is queen mother/queen regent.
Its a reference to Robert, who was a previous king, and how she only had power/titles when he was king, but now that Tommen is, she ain’t got shit and is just a tired old drunk.
Underrated comment
@@justadult3493 I don't know what you are on about. There can be more than one Dowager Queen. The only requirement is that they are widows of a late King. Take for example, when Elizabeth II became Queen, her grandmother Queen Mary and her mother Queen Elizabeth were still alive and were both known as Dowager Queens. Although her mother was later known as Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother just to avoid confusion with her daughter of the same name.
This scene was so lovingly made. Every movement meant VOLUMES. Margaery remaining sitting as the queen reagent entered to indicate that Cersei isn't rightfuly the boss anymore. Cersei taking a leal/obedient (by Cersei standards) tone. Margaery fake smile as Cersei departs into relaxing her face into smiling jovialy before twisting around as though she wasn't with her fangs out. IMMACULATE. 10/10
Like say what you will "Margaery fuckt up here" but like she was playing the game. She had to wrench the iron throne away from Cersei and unfortunately for Margaery, she had people she actually loved. Cersei never truly loved anyone but Jaime. And did he (in the books) come to her when she called for him? No. Cersei destroyed a whole place and for what, her own vanity. She continued to destroy and destroy until she ran out of children
Did anyone else just hear two minutes of cats hissing at eachother.
Oh yeah. I did. Still if I were Margaery I wouldn't hiss at Cersei like this.
redfox555 Shes speaking Cerseis language. Snide remarks are all that Cersei makes esp. to Tyrion. If Cersei had threatened to kill me and I could make fun of her, Id take the opportunity cause Id know that no matter what, she d always want my head just for having married her son (like with Sansa)
@@margaritanoir Cersei never wanted Sansa's head. Mid-late game Sansa is arguably a better player than Margaery. They all have things they could learn from each other.
@@hiepdang719How could Sansa be a better player than Margaery 💀
@@mau1132 Margaery actively taunted and provoked Cersei after Joffrey's death for no reason (calling her sister again, dowager the queen, flaunting her sex life with Tommen, etc). Sansa at this point would have kept her mouth shut, only saying things when there is something to gain from it.
"What is the record, I'm sure we could break it!"
Say what you will about Tommen as a king, but I respect his lofty aspirations as a lover. Who knows, given enough time he could have rivaled Oberyn or even Pod himself.
Lmao
Oberyn will always have the highest body count he’s bisexual.
Tommen was super horny for Margaery. Who can blame him? A young teen with a super hot woman like that. Heck yeah, I'd be plowing that 24/7.
@@kingkongchief1177I think the quote is talking most number of climaxes during the night (or day), not bodycount.
@@kingkongchief1177 just because u technically have options as a bisexual doesn’t mean you use them all lol it’s the free sexual mores he has in general that would make him have the higher body count, not his orientation
The SHAAAAAADE of it all about the wine comment!
I think it was a bit out of line in my opinion.
She basically called Cersei an alcoholic.
She called her an alcoholic, old, and that she only had her title because Robert.
@@aegonthedragon7303 1000000% accurate
She really got outclassed here, Cersei is usually the best at ‘Kinga landing speak’ (under the surface jabs). But she just kept coming back to say ‘if you need me’ as Marg called her an alcoholic, said that Tommen was ‘half lion half stag’ - probably a reference to him being the result of twincest, and then reminded her when Marg has a baby she’d have even a lesser title/power 😭
I love this scene so much. Literally every sentence had a different sentence hidden underneath.
Season 5 might be bad, but there are some scenes that are really good
@@causingsquid4324 season 5 was never bad. Seasons 1-6 were peak GOT.
I wish we had some wine for you. It's a bit early in the day for us. 🍷😂
Season 5-8 were garbage but season 5 has some good scenes ye
@@uglukthemedicineman5933 seasons 5 and 6 were the beginning of the decline of the show. However, they had some amazing scenes here and there.
I love how the one handmaiden is clearly freaked out as Margaery starts to piss off Cersei, she is smarter than the whole bunch of them combined. Let's hope she saw the writing on the wall and run back to Highgarden when Margaery was arrested.
What writing on the wall
@@screamforedits1645 that Cersei was gonna fuck her up and by default her maidens too.
Didn't Cersei sleep with one of the handmaidens in the books?
@@leondzananovic6576no, you’re most likely thinking of taena
@@aengusog3415 she is Margaery's handmaid, isn't she?
I like when cersei walks away
Margerys smile drops and it turns into a "mmm maybe I shouldn't have said that"
Then turns back to
"She probably will forget it haha"
Cersei handled the situation
Nooo it wasn’t “I shouldn’t have said that” it was ugh I hate that old hag face lol 😅
Cersei’s face after being called “dowager queen” 😂 You can tell by her eyes she really wanted to hurt her for that statement lol
dowager queen isn’t really a bad thing though. It just means you’re a widow. Unless she took it as an insult to be recognised as *Robert’s* Widow of course.
I'm obsessed with the focus on political intrigue and infighting in the earlier seasons, the way they have this subtle verbal warfare where they exchange insults that are so subtle that they can't be called out because it's under this thin veil of courteousness - the shade of it all
01:44 the face of someone about to do something horribly stupid to get petty revenge, which will eventually backfire.
well that was quite a revenge plan
Stupid ?? Nah This was the greatest revenge
Cry more clown 😁
This is how Margaery got her death sentence
Yep. She underestimated how far Cersei will go for spite.
A flower trying to compete with a Lioness... careful.
Some people you just don't taunt. Margaery already knew Cersei had the King and his Hand killed. Cersei literally threatened to have her strangled for calling her "sister." I know Margaery is good at manipulating men, but if she had two brain cells to rub together she would have made peace with Cersei. She didn't deserve her fate, but she was totally asking for it.
Cersei would have killed her anyway.
Totally
@@seren4740Cersei might have, but antagonizing her makes it worse.
Margaery just wanted to be Queen I never understood why ppl would say she would’ve made a great queen when we don’t know that. Her and her grandmother would do whatever they wanted to get what they wanted and no one else mattered. Margarey talked to Cersei that way because she thought cersei was going to casterly rock and she would ultimately rule. She was too conniving and she wasn’t genuine and it back fired on her. The same way it did for cersei 😊
This is the only time I felt that Margaery went maybe a bit too far. Not that I blame her, but maybe this wasn't necessary. Taunting a lion (or in this case a lioness) just when it's about to finally calm down is never a wise thing to do. Just sayin'
Bro fuck Cersei though. Margaery calling her a drunk is pretty tame compared to Cersei basically saying i’ll kill your ass like we did with the Reynes if you call me sister.
Margaery overplayed her hand with Cersei, just like Jaime did with Locke.
In jaime's case it was literally lol
@@lukaavaliani9294 Looooooooool!!!!
Dead ass accurate. And up till this scene, she was towing the line brilliantly
"Half Lion, half stag", even the ladies in waiting found that one funny.
But on a serious note- something that I noticed just now. Margaery didn't get up for Cercei or show any curtesy with a bow or anything similar. Only her company did.
Just an enthusiastic "Mother!" (If you ever call me sister again, I'll have you strangled in your sleep) lol. Showing her that's *she's* the Queen now.
Margaery is the queen she doesn’t bow to anyone, everyone bows to her due to the title.
In hindsight, Margaery shouldn't have fucked with Cersei
meh, Cersei would have wanted to kill her either way. Plus its mostly the high sparrow's fault Cersei blew up the scept, not to mention the death of Myrcella and her imprisonment really did something with her sanity
The way she stares at Margaery and says, "won't that be a lovely day." 1:18 Ugh... amazing!! You can just tell she's envisioning Margaery as a corpse.
But I think the real problem was not Margaery's sass towards Cersei in the scene. But the fact that she tried to send her away to Casterly Rock and Tommen - ô sweet T - wasn't so subtle about it.
The real problem was that Margaery was too sweet, she couldn't consider murder but she should have, she tried to return Cersei to Castral rock because Cersei was an obvious vicious parasite but this plan was too sweet, she should have tried to poison cersei, sadly she wasn't as crual as Cersei that's the problem.
I doubt even the Lord of Light could revive Cersei after that verbal murder.
And he couldn't revive Margaery from the Wyldfire either.
@@TrelliessRose lmaoo atee
For those wondering, Cersei would now be addressed as Queen Mother
wouldn't she have been since Robert died?
@@sonoftheway3528 basically. If Joffrey had been too young to take the throne she would have just been dowager Queen. But because Joffrey took the throne immediately after Robert’s death she’s Queen Mother, because she is the mother to the current monarch. Same rules when Tommen is king too
@@autumnfranklin6790 Wouldn't she be both?
And what if Joffrey had been to young to take the throne? Who would take the throne then?
also, how did she become queen at the end of the show? I know the writing was shit then but, was there any actual succession rules that essentially made her queen regnant?
@@sonoftheway3528 yes she is both. But Queen Mother is the more important title. Kinda like how Princess Kate is both Duchess of Cambridge and a princess. The duchess part is the more important title, so she is referred to as that first as a symbol of respect
If Joffrey was too young to be king the hand or his mother could have ruled in his place with Joffrey as more of a figurehead before he came of age. That’s what Robert initially wanted with Ned before he died. Also kinda like how Alicent and Otto ruled when Viserys got really sick. They claimed to do things with his wants and needs in mind, but they made all the executive decisions
And there’s really no explanation for Cersei being queen except she was the only thing close to royalty the crown had. However the writing was bad, if it was more accurate, the crown would have gone to Robert Baratheon’s eldest living cousin
@@autumnfranklin6790 thanks for the information.
Did Robert have any living cousins?
I see an angry cercei, I think this clip should be call: margaery's death sentence, because margaery practically says cersei is a drunk woman and an old lady, that was the spark on the cersei's mind to create a plan againts her
Margaery: makes fun of Cersei
Cersei: your funeral
1:26 Cersei is about ready to kill someone :D
Margery was an idiot for this. Cersei wanted the best for tommen and humble she offered her support to margery and she publicly humiliated in return.
Cersei was offering anything but support😂
cersei plotted against marge from day one. she was scared of her since she believed she was the princess from maggy the frog prophecy. marge lowered her guard here and got too comfortable believing she already defeated cersei. the tyrells believed cersei would not act against them since she needed the men and food from the reach but they underestimated how petty and crazy cersei is. cersei's madness was let loose after tywin died since no one could keep her in check.
currently re-watching the show and i'm curious if this was a smidge of genuity from Cersei in an attempt to prevent a power-struggle over Tommen, but Margaery ignores it and continues to antagonize Cersei...or was Cersei already intent on engaging in a subtle verbal battle & Margaery simply reciprocated the passive-aggressive, backhanded energy?
Cersei seemed more genuine to me here at least on some level. This was one of the first times she truly looked pained/stunned at someone else’s comments.
@@sebastianrioux fully agreed - i definitely think cersei was trying to genuinely make amends & prevent any more power struggles, at least for a time, because margaery turned out to be a lot more capable of "playing the game" then anyone thought. such a masterfully done scene.
Cersei antagonized her first back in season 3 so of course Margaery would give it back to her. Plus, I don’t think Cersei was ever trying to be genuinely nice to her or to anyone in fact.
@@garlantyrell6368 of course, Cersei did start it, but i definitely think even Cersei was blindsided by Margaery's prowess and cunning. hence the attempt to make amends, to stop them from fighting over Tommen to the death (literally) but, as we know, Margaery wasn't giving Cersei an inch of ground. and what we got as a result was DEFINITELY a struggle to the (fiery) death lol
I wish we had a wine for you, but its early for us 😂😂
I don't understand why Margaery is mean to Cersei. In this scene, and I think it's the only scene in the whole show, Cersei looks like she really tried to be nice.
Agreed! It definitely seems like Cersei is at least attempting to swallow her pride here. However, I feel like a Margery-Cersei friendship never would've worked anyway. They, fundamentally, want the same things: power and the throne. And at the end of the day, only one could have it. Cersei would've never been content sitting second chair to Margery and vice versa.
The previous time she'd tried to be sweet and kind, Cersei threatened her. NEXT time around, SHE was the Queen.
@@lindoralindt4131 exactly !
@@lindoralindt4131Exactly this! Marg did NOT forget that moment in the Sept where Cersei threatened her. Which is why she called her sister again during Tommen’s crowning and did all of this here. Cersei was petty af but so was Margaery lol
This is black chyna vs Kris jenner
duece08 lol
I googled dowager after this and hooooly shit my phone heated up just from the sheer intensity of that burn
Cersei was mean to margaery at first, but tried to work with her out of love for tommen
Cersei used to being in control, always telling people what to do, usually in a very discourteous manner, never warm.
But here she is forced to be polite. It's interesting that in this unfamiliar situation she takes a leaf out of her brother's book. Tyrion, always the charmer, of course being used to the dynamic of being unwanted in a social setting. Watch Tryion's entrance to Kings landing in season 2. "Dear sister, more beautiful than ever. War agrees with you!"
Excellent writing.
It is at that time that Margaery Fked up!!!
this is when margery died in cersei's mind the rest was just details
This is the moment Margaery overplayed her luck
Margery what are you doing?? This was the one time Cersei tried to open up and be kind and she just stomped all over it. That was the chance to actually form a friendship with Cersei
Margery was smart and I do think she could have been a good ruler. I do agree that in this moment, she let her cattiness cloud her judgment. Allying with Cersei was a much better choice than pissing her off. However, I do also feel like Margery never would've been truly safe aligning with Cersei. Cersei was a woman who put herself and her family above all else. Yes, Margery was married into the family, but she was not blood. So I do think Cersei would've allowed Margery to become collateral damage if push came to shove. I think even if Cersei and Margery developed a friendship it would've been doomed to fail simply due to their incompatibility in goals. They both wanted power at the end of the day. And both women couldn't be THE Queen, as Margery said she wanted to be. Margery, even if she'd aligned with Cersei and had not been catty in this scene, I think was much too ambitious, well-liked, and crafty for Cersei to ever truly trust or like her. Ironically, the only way it would've worked, I think, is if Cersei had someone like season 1 Sansa for Tommen. Someone who was naive and young, who just wanted to marry a prince, have babies, and have a fairy-tale romance. Not someone like Margery who wants power, who was smart and who would challenge Cersei.
@@r.s6187 I still think that Margery would be making the smarter move by at least showing kindness to Cersei when Cersei showed kindness to her. Keep your guard up at all times, yes-but don’t openly mock her when she shows you an ounce of vulnerability.
@@jukihiw Oh I totally agree. Like I said I do think she let the power and cattiness go to her head. Because she "won" and got what she wanted, she assumed she was safe to belittle and mock Cersei. Would've been much wiser to show kindness. But yeah I do think Margery was doomed either way, even if she'd been nice to Cersei.
@@r.s6187 Yeah doomed either way is good way to put it. I wonder if Tommen had really told his mom how much he loves her if that could have helped protect her.
@@jukihiw probably not.
0:23-0:28 BURN
Welcome to high school.
"Hehehe i am doing your son"
"Wouldn't that be a lovely day". Love that line and delivery, she knows Margery won't live to see it.
Vain and stupid move by Margaery.
This was the only poorly-planned play that I saw Margaery make. Antagonising Cersei without any particular payoff was unwise.
the ultimate SHADE of it all
The wine snipe though 😂😂
Surprising that M had the guts to be so contemptuous of C. She is a generation junior. Her tragic flaw is her pride, I suppose!
Cersei didn't like Margarey but I think by the time cersi blows up the Sept she was over both her and her son. They were loyal to the church the church had already had the ppl on its side. And for the king and queen to be down as well meant she would have definitely stood trial and would have to announce that the king was a product of inscist which would have stripped them all of power anyways. So she figured hey may as well blow them all up since they are probably about to lock my ass up anyways. She blew them up and regained all power back. Her son jumping out of the window was just a moment for her. She was over it and him at that point. Which is why she wanted his traitor ashes places in the sept.
Mean Girls: Westorosi style
Still Cersie is more the Queen than anyone else. Margery doesn't pull it off.
Margery would make a better queen than Cersei ever could in Westeros.
The moment Margery fucked up
I forget, what was the point of this scene? Did Cersei give Margaery a last chance to save herself or was this part of a bigger scheme to make it look like she had nothing to do with the Tyrell's imprisonment that followed soon after?
that's what i'm wondering. currently re-watching the show and i'm curious if this was a smidge of genuity from Cersei in an attempt to prevent a power-struggle over Tommen, but Margaery ignores it and continues to antagonize Cersei...or was Cersei already intent on engaging in a subtle verbal battle & Margaery simply reciprocated the passive-aggressive, backhanded energy?
"mother!" lol
is mira forrester one of the girls at the table? if anyone has played the game of thrones telltale game. u know who i am talking about.
williamtitan Remember that Mira's last scene with Margaery was after Joffrey's death but before Tommen's wedding , so probably at this time of the story she would be either dead like Ned Stark or "trying to marry" the bastard who put her in a cell
thats actually quite obvious when u think it that way. lol thanks!
I would love to break the record with Margery.... the record amount of times a queen can be dissappointed in one session.
Queen Margaery is here, finally. Prepare yourself Cersei...
Miriam LV lol
Cough cough
yeh 2 years later =)))))))
Margaery trolled Cersei so hard here😂 This flame was hotter than wildfire!
four times is not even close to the record. king Robert made the eight in a single day by bringing one girl from each of the kingdoms to his bed chamber (+ the riverlands).
I miss this level of dialogue. On the surface the dialogue is one thing, below the surface it’s something entirely different.
This scene is one of few mistakes by Margaery in the show. Cercei is coming to Margaery and, essentially, admitting defeat. Earlier, Cercei told Margaery "if you ever call me sister again, I'll have you killed in your sleep." Here, Cercei admits the only power she has left is that which Margaery allows her to have.
Instead of sharing her power or being gratious in victory, Margaery chooses to rub her victory in Cercei's face. Because of this interaction, Cercei doubles down on her plotting and resolves to claw back power by any means necessary. Margery has the chance to defang Cercei permanently, and instead chooses to gloat over someone who is losing, but not out of the game yet. You can trace back the mistakes of the Faith Militant and the destruction of the Cept of Baelor to this exact conversation.
Margaery *couldn't* share power with Cersei. If Margaery gave her an inch, Cersei would take it a mile. The only thing she could do to keep in control was occasionally let Cersei have her own way, either in gracious defeat or just giving it to her ("Of course you may have that").
Long Live The Queen!
Season 5 had some terrible moments, but this is def not one of them. I almost feel bad for Cersei here.
All that an old alpha lioness has is her pride, her position and her cubs. Poke her and threaten to take all three from her?…
Fav scene besides Jon Snow becoming Leader of the Night's Wotch.