I COULDN'T DISAGREE MORE WITH THIS RECENT YOUTUBE VIDEO.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2024
- Honesty, Brock from Rockhill Farms did a fantastic job responding to this video. But I just had a fire lit in me to say my piece on the subject. So let me know your thoughts below, because this is a big conversation in the tractor world!
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I was a hard core JD guy and when i was looking to buy a compact tractor. I look at JD and kubota and the prices where ridiculous and the attitude of the sales persons where ignorant. So i went and look at other brand and Kioti was the best for what i was looking for. I too was afraid about reliability parts and service. Its been 3 years now and still pleased with my Kioti.
Same experience. I been shopping for a year now. My experience with JD after dealing with seriously 4 different dealers is that sales and service guys where arrogant A holes. Kubota was a little better but not by much. Surprisingly the Massey Ferguson and Yanmar where amazing.
I don't own one, but kioti was in business and had a strong presence in my area way back in 1987 when I bought my Kubota.. should have bought the kioti, would have been cheaper to maintain and repair
I got a better deal for Kubota L3301 than a 30hp Kioti so it probably varies on model and dealership
Went through the same experience looking at JD and Kubota. Nervous about Kioti reliability and parts. I have had my Kioti for two years. It had way more standard options and features included. Have almost 400 hours and do my own service. it has been a rock solid machine. I will not look at another brand if I buy another tractor. My only complaint is when you need parts you will have to go back to the dealer.
Same here, bought a kioti cx2510 and been very happy with it
A tractor is not a tractor without local dealer/shop support. My local dealer shop is completely useless, to the point I sold all my deer products for another brand.
How about that....my tractor still seems to be a tractor unless it had a gender change that I dont know about.
@@bierbarrelcute, but the main reason we see more green than anything else is because of the dealer network.
Have to agree with poster regarding useless dealers and shop
I work for a green dealer, support is important, if you buy green for the money you better have good support, unfortunately some areas you dont have a choice, there needs to be more competition
Makes sense. Just like any other purchases. Household appliances, cars. Anything you depend on to last or even to have that support. If there not on top of their game why go back?
While researching a number of brands ( LS, Mahindra, New Holland, etc) prior to my tractor purchase I looked at JD and Kubota as well. However, found their prices ridiculous and did not care for the attitude of the respective dealers. Chose a Kioti... machine is more than capable and I tend to trust the dealer. It does not hurt that one of the owners of the Kioti dealership lives around the corner from me. Also, I am a retired heavy equipment operator and have learned over my career that more often than not the dealer, and it's support, is as important as the brand of equipment.
Talking about messicks, I saw that video. I would say for sure John deemed, Kubota, and kioti are top 3....yes, deere and Kubota are bigger, but you can't exclude kioti. Kioti is its own tractor and not re-branded. I had a kioti and loved it.
My take is he wasn't picking on Kioti directly. Summit, definitely. And I agree with him on the point that too much dilution is going to give some brands a temporary market share, and then the company folds, and you're stuck hunting for parts, having to cross reference what your model may be compatible with from the parent manufacturer or another manufacturer. I see this as being analogous to the old saying "No one ever got fired for buying IBM". Sure, there were competitors in the mainframe market like CDC and Amdahl. But like buying an IBM, buying a JD or Kubota isn't AS likely to leave you stranded for parts or service 10 or 15 years from now, and it's a >safer< bet. How long does the average compact tractor buyer keep a tractor?
Last sentence is a good question. I'll make a poll about it.
JC that's how I took that video, too. Almost spot on. And I can personally speak to what he was referring to. Back around 2010, I bought one of those Cub Cadet Yanmar SC2400's. It's been a FANTASTIC machine, but now that they're gone, I find myself struggling to find even simple parts like filters.
I'll add that it has more to do with a change of part numbers. Yanmar stuff is still available, sure. But trying to cross reference discontinued part numbers with current ones hasn't been easy.
Thank you for putting what I was thinking about that video into words.
I agree with this and this is what I took from the other video as well. I live 30 minutes from 'he who shall not be named' and I have bought an implement from him and a used lawn mower. I bought my kioti from a dealer that's about the same distance away and has a decent reputation. I bought the kioti knowing that all colors break and the specs were better. Also the other orange brand couldn't even get me a tractor at the time. I believe competition breeds innovation but I do believe not all brands will always survive. I did not buy a red tractor that was 30 minutes away because I was afraid they might not exist in 10 years.
Great video. A few years ago I was shopping all brands to find the best value for my money. I have friends/family with a variety of brands and talked with them. All were happy with their machines for the most part. The decision was simple when taking the names off the machines and comparing specs for what I was looking for at my budget point. Kioti was the clear choice. Your analysis is spot on from my experience.
Honestly, Courtney. You hit the nail on the head. Competition brings out the best in everybody. Thanks for standing up for your point of view.
Messick's video was very informative and objective, and backed with a lot of specific factual data. Seemed to be unbiased and a fair assessment. There will be a number of tractor related entities for which we'll be reading their obituaries in the next 12-18 months. I hope your dealership business continues to be successful. I enjoy of your videos. Good luck!!
Of all the third tier brands, I prefer Kioti and Yanmar. Kioti because they’re strong Korean tractors with a good dealer network, and Yanmar because they build very high quality tractors and provide engines for half the tractor, construction, and marine industries.
Yanmar has been a partner with JD on small tractors and lawn and garden engines for decades
I had the gray market yammer and it never did run, I know why they call it the poor mans tractor now because you go broke trying to keep it running
@@user-wf8nv2ok3s maybe buy a real yanmar. They built the small Deere's for years and are dominant in the diesel engine market globally for tractors, heavy equipment, and marine diesel. The problem might be in your mirror. Sounds like you like cutting corners.
I'm a big fan of Yanmar. Older longer history than Kioti, dominant in the diesel industry globally for tractors, heavy equipment, and the marine industry. Their pricing is excellent. But I haven't compared to Kioti.
Great videos! You actually helped me pull the trigger on a new tractor after being let go from my job of 18 years. I got a brand new TYM T224 with loader, mower and backhoe and it’s been a great tool for my business. So far it’s made me a good amount of money. Oddly enough, you helped steer me toward a TYM with your videos because you helped me consider many different aspects of these machines and what they can do. I’m very happy 80 hrs in. Been a great machine so far. I have 320 to go to make it pay. So thanks!
6 years ago when I bought my tractor, John Deere told me if you don’t buy a John Deere, buy a Kubota and vice versa. My concern considering other brands is parts availability. I have followed Kioti, they are intriguing. The post Covid world is a shitshow, our supply chain has permanently changed, just waited almost two months for some composite decking. I enjoy your show, thank you.
Whomever can get their supply chain worked out will succeed.
Saw the video. My take is that he wasn't picking on Kioti. He pointed out that there are a lot of makes of tractors out there right now, and he didn't think they would all survive. He's probably right. Wasn't there some brand from Montana a while back? Cub cadet? He just suggested that finding parts might get difficult for some of them. I think he might be wrong there, but I agree that there will probably be a thinning of the herd. Not such a bad thing. The market is always changing, and any kind of a downturn could spell the end for some struggling manufacturer. It's just what happens.
Agree. Shame that you offer the negativity rather just another viewpoint.
PS.. Kioti is here stay.
Kyoti has been around for a long time also
I was talking about Kioti because I was sitting on a Kioti. It applied to all tractors, all industries, all parts of life. Competition is always a good thing. Most tractor brands these days aren't started from building a factory ground up with new technology. There's a parent manufacturer who already makes the same or simliar tractor under other brand names. Even if your brand goes under, the parts are most likely still there anyways. See who actually makes your tractor before you buy it.
@GoodWorksTractors exactly. Montana was made by LS and the Cub Cadet said "by Yanmar" right on the machine. None of them are one offs anymore. Heck, I have Studebakers that go back to the 40s. That is a true orphan brand and you can still get parts for them nearly 60 years after they went out of business.
I swore I wouldn't ever move away from Kubota, when I was needing to upgrade tractors. I went with TYM, as I felt I got a good quality, comparable tractor for roughly 20k less
That was about the same amount I saved over the big 2 going with Kioti, was very close to a TYM though.
I think you did a good job addressing features/price at purchase but my top concern is long-term parts stream. My most-used tractor is a 1983 JD and I buy parts regularly with no issue. If one of the smaller companies could make an official parts guarantee for x number of years it could be a huge game-changer for them. We have to keep equipment going for decades in small farming.
I took Messicks video as a warning that if you don't but Kubota or JD you may not be able to get parts 10 to 15 years down the road should that brand go out of business.
He has very good points about brands that can leave you hanging. I have been there my dealer quite sailing his brand and went to another before he could get new sign TYM brought them out. Can still get parts for old unit. But he don’t care anymore. Wants to sale me a new TYM. The dealer is way more important that I consider on the first one. My new Kioti is great.
For JD once they quite making that model (based on machine number IE 4052M, 5055E, ect) they stop making parts for them. most JD's made from 1990 - 2005 you cannot get parts for them!
try buying factory parts for an american car 20 years old. They often leave you hanging too!! Because they change too much stuff too often.
Great video. I’ve owned a Kioti for almost 3 years now and couldn’t be happier. I live about 30 minutes from the Kioti US plant in Wendell NC. I pass by there on a weekly basis and the amount of tractors that are be received into that facility is impressive. I think you have made a good choice with Kioti.
I hadn’t heard of Kioti before we bought my little JD. I just looked it up and how far Wendell is from me, about 3 1/2 hours. Then I did a search for Kioti next to me and there’s one about 17 miles from where we’ve recently moved! I will be looking at one when I need another tractor…
I never realized they were US made. That’s pretty neat!
@@3sparewashers-lg3gf they are made in South Korea. The US facility in Wendell, NC is an assembly and distribution plant.
I saw the video you are talking about before you posted this video...and I totally agree with the guy. What he said in the video is that people should be careful when purchasing a tractor to perhaps prevent them from buying a brand that would not be supported by parts and service in the future...and he was exactly spot on with that. He just pointed out that Kubota and Deere were known commodities...and he was correct in that assessment...whereas a lot of the other brands could very well go down and leave owners in the lurch. I have been around equipment all of my life and it is not fun to have to park a piece of equipment because you cannot get a needed part for it...and this even happens with longstanding brands on some of their older models...and there are a lot of these new brands that will be gone soon and in 10yrs or less there will be NO parts for them. But, hey, you spend your money and take your chances...just makes good sense to give this stuff a little thought before spending that money.
Outstanding video. I have worked in Korea. They are a little powerhouse of a country in engineering / economy / quality manufacturing and advanced thinking concerning their products. Green paint is to expensive and always has been, plus any tractor below 100 hp is not even assembled in the US.. Kubota, while the motors have built their reputation, there tractors are to lite in iron, frontends are to weak, and now-a-days do not provide the refinement that TYM and Kioti promote. Massey Ferguson has even had to step up their game, ie; switching from Dana to Cararo front ends and loader change to provide greater lift capacity. And lets not forget the bottom line, PRICE. They just aren't as greedy as the rest of the group. While everybody else jumped on the inflation bandwagon and started sticking it to the public ,Korea has been realistic with what little price increase American because of American inflation. Their tractors in other countries have not had to increase the price as much as America. I would never be afraid to own a Korean product, a high speed low drag democracy that has something to prove to the world , and they are doing it.
Thank you for being open to other tractors. I truly love the content and hearing about different tractors. Helps me not to be so tunnel vision on a specific brand.
I bought a Kioti NS4710 a couple of years ago after much research, at the time I was hoping you would have a review on Kioti. After my research, I couldn't pay the extra 7-9k for a Kubota that had similar specs. I have well over 100 hours in it. It has been a workhorse and has literally saved me thousands of $$ in rentals for a major project. Thank you for your unbiased reviews and for educating others to the options that are now in the market.
I have a Kioti CK3510SE and love it. Third function, two rear remotes, cruise control, tilt, suspension seat, and alot of implements! Love it!!! Have a great day!
Over 1200 hours on my 3 year old DK4210 se. Flawless performance, great dealer, Michigan Iron&Equipment.
I saw that video. Had the same feeling watching it. I purchased a Kioti nx6010 this year. So far I’m very happy with it. Great savings. My dealer is established and sells other brands. They are next door to Kubota and across the street from JD so no difference there. I don’t see parts disappearing in 10 years. They have been in the USA for a very long time. I love my machine.
One word...Massy, long standing, great capability, amazing value, not in any danger of goings anywhere! Massy is the bigest slep on manufacture! Imo.
Yep, this here GC1710 owner concurs.
Same tractor here and it has been flawless since acquiring in 2018. 👍🏼
Especially the Iseki built compacts like the Massey M series. Agco isn’t going anywhere, you’re right. I’ve wondered why they don’t get the TH-cam attention. Dealer network?
MF 1529 owner,has been a great tractor,nevermimd the 10 ft backhoe on a smaller size machine with a massive sub structure.I recently looked at Kubotas to upgrade and really wasn't that impressed.My only dislike is a thinner gauge bucket
I just purchased a kioti CK 26/20se cab model , I purchased it for a few reasons . Local dealer( that is excellent), excellent lift capacity, well laid out interior. I live in a part of Canada that gets hi snow fall levels and low temperatures, so a cab was a must. I researched tractors for two years and always came back to kioti , and so I bought one , no regrets.
I did my Mihindra for the same reasons man and I worked for a KD dealer in sales still couldn't afford a JD
I'm a small hobby-farmer -- I use my Kioti 4510 to lift up fallen trees for firewood cutting, hauling pallet boxes with firewood and light backhoe work. I've put over 1,000 hours and still going strong. Dealer support was great on all 3 of the occasions that I needed a part (off-of-the-shelf). I'd buy another one for sure.
Ill admit I purchased a TYM T25 based off watching what it could do on Tonys channel and I’m so happy with it so far. I feel like I got so much more tractor for the money than what I was originally looking at with Kubota and JD to the point of if the T25 didn’t exist I probably wouldn’t have bought a tractor. 25k out the door with the backhoe and the capabilities have amazed me so far. Already have my new lot cleared of sage brush for my new house.
I have the Rural King RK25, made by TYM which is the same as the T25. I sold my JD and purchased the RK25 which had better lift capacity, Rim Guard already installed, and a wider selection of tire options. I have over 100 hours on it and it has been rock solid so far.
When someone says "just give up" ... they are showing they're worried. I used to be a green fan, but waiting a month for service worried me that either a lot of them break down or the dealers don't want to have enough staff. Plus, any time farmers have to file lawsuits just to fix their own tractors and keep them in the field, I worry about what that company is about. I traded mine for an LS when I found that I could get a cab with extras for less than the same green one without the cab or extras. I've only needed services once (the 50hr service) and they got me in and out the next day (the green needed service 4 times with at least a 2wk wait each time). I've never had any regrets and the LS has served me VERY well.
Great content GWT, thanks. I have only 40 hours on my Kioti CK2620. Both my bank account and me are very happy. The Kioti dealer couldn't even keep this brand on the lot ; as soon as they assemble them they are sold. - N Idaho -
Thank you for the thoughtful comments and as others have added - two other factors matter beyond price: 1) dealer support and 2) the planned use case. By use case, I mean a) the estimated annual number of hours, b) the criticality of downtime, and c) the ability of the owner/operator to service the equipment assuming parts are available. If you are a contractor and using the equipment daily, downtime is unaffordable; if you are a gentleman farmer, it is annoying. If are a municipality and use the equipment to mow highway berms daily, you probably have an on-staff mechanic who can replace a failed part as long as you can get it delivered overnight. The issue for almost all owners is when there is a problem like you had with your JCBs - issues that require sophisticated diagnosis. Keep at it, Courtney!
I saw the video you are talking about and while I didn’t completely finish the video, I took it as more of a cautionary tale to make sure that the company you are buying from is going to have solid dealer support in the long term. Competition is good, poorly managed companies going out of business 3 years from now because they can’t make margins after the market finishes correcting is bad. I didn’t have any issues with what was said. I think there will be winners coming out of the pandemic boom, but there are bound to be companies that fail, and hopefully too many consumers don’t get stuck holding the bag.
My last tractor was a bobcat CT122, which was based on a Kioti. I absolutely loved it, and it felt like so much more tractor than my neighbor's Deere 1025r. The only flaw that I could find was that it needed a middle range.
Same here bought a Bobcat 1025 based on Kioti because of price and bobcat dealership near by really happy with it
Couldn't agree more with you. I wouldnt have looked at anything other than Deere two years ago. I was upgrading from my smaller Deere. I was sold on a Kubota within the year. Did much more research/comparing. Ended up between Kioti/Mahindra. In the end purchased a Yanmar YM359 after about 3 months of comparison. Couldn't be happier. Machine is more than I need for my property, build quality is incredible and has 10 year warranty. Keep your options open!
I followed a similar path and ended up with a YT347 I am very happy with. With a third function it was within a few hundred $ of a bare 4044R, but outperforms it across the board (and has the same engine). I haven't needed it yet, but the dealer is closer than both JD and Kubota.
Very nice. I took ended up going with the third function (Long) and a lumber grapple. I moved more in one day on my property than I have in several years. I agree the JD are nice but way more expensive and I feel the Yanmar outperforms in every way.
John Deere and Kubota have long set the standard. I actually purchased a John Deere based on some of your recommendations several years ago. Even though I’ve had several major issues with my tractor I’m still happy with my purchase decision.
Since then there have been several other tractor manufacturers including Kioti that have made major strides to compete with Deere and Kubota. In my opinion if they didn’t manufacture tractors that not only have some better features but also have a better price point then they would not have had the success against the big 2. Look at the auto industry and how that’s changed, Ford and GM are no longer focusing on cars as much as they use to. Why, competition identified a market need and provided products customers wanted. Please keep providing your open and honest posts. People have to realize things will always change. Successful businesses always identify market changes and adapt to meet their customer’s needs.
My neighbor has had a kioti for 20yrs and he's happy with it... I bought a LS tractor model MT240E 3yrs ago and I love it.. one of the reasons why I went with LS is because they also make new Holland and I knew that would make it a little easier to get parts years down the road
Exactly 👍
The thing is most of those other tractor companies that have gone under had lower prices and typically lower performance or missing options... now kioti has good pricing, great specs, can come loaded with features, and seem to sell pretty well. So yeah the legacy brand dealers will want to down play that as much as possible.
I wanted the best tractor for loader work mostly, on my 200 high desert acres. Kioti 7320 dusted the other brands in loader capacity, price, financing and features. Decided to do the 50 hour service myself and it was a pain in butt to get two hydraulic filters off, as they were set too tight and then painted on. It’ll be easier going forward now, so I’m happy with the tractor so far.
"Competition breeds innovation" I must say I came to your channel because of my need for tractor information as a new owner of my own tractor, but have continued to follow because as a businessman and entrepreneur I feel you hit so many great thoughts on the nose. I appreciate what you share and the challenges you face as a business owner along with the depth of information you provide for the products you sell. Keep up the great work!
I bought a kioti tractor years ago.. haven’t had any issues with it yet. It’s been really reliable.
I’ll buy again.
Thanks for the video
These blunt honest discussions are great nobody else is talking about but you know there thinking it . Keep doing what your doing 👍🏻
I Love my RX7320! Amazing Tractor/Company. I have friends that bought others around the time I purchased & they have had their issues. No issues and the ease of servicing myself is great and easy.
I just bought a new Kubota and had a JD before that. Before buying the Kubota I researched Kioti mainly because of one of your videos. Then I reached out to two Kioti dealers: one didn’t respond and the other gave me a price that was almost identical to the LX 2610 I ended up going with. I’m not sure what I’m missing but there was no price difference so I was inclined to go with Kubota.
I think your misleading people on what the OG video was. History will repeat itself, That is what was stated in the video.
I watched Messicks video (I believe it’s what your referring to) and at the time, I really didn’t take it like you see it. But hearing your view point I now completely see it.
I currently have a John Deere but that was 100% bought based on deal at the time and dealers availability. I have Kioti, new holland, LS, John Deere and Kubota dealers all right near me. I would buy my next tractor solely on best deal for the best fit for me tractor and most importantly, the best dealer service. I honestly don’t care one bit about any name brand. And I will say John Deere has not blown me away at all, I’d say their products are so so.
So all that said, I completely agree with this video at this point.
Hey Court, I'm guessing that you're talking about Neal's video from Messick's? I must be the one getting it wrong, because I've seen several other TH-camrs that took his video the same way that apparently you are. I just took his video as him presenting "math" and industry stats, and saying that some manufacturers aren't going to be able to make it based on the numbers of tractors being sold etc...I think if I remember correctly, Brock from Rockhill Farms interpreted Neal's video the same way you apparently have. I must be missing something, because that's not how I took it.
And I AM a Kioti owner. I've got the Kioti RX 7320 which would be a direct competitor to your Kubota M4. I LOVE it too, but I've never compared it to your machine. I'm sure there are some differences, and that your machine has some features that mine doesn't, but as you've pointed out in a few of your videos, the specs of my 7320 flat-out beat the pants off of the Deere 5075 as well as some of the Kubotas if I remember correctly. And I bought mine with a considerable savings over either Kubota or Deere. I'm NOT bashing either Kubota or Deere either. I like both of those brands, but I just couldn't justify the money for less performance in the areas that matter to me.
And apparently I didn't wait to comment until I'd seen your entire video, as you DID mention Brock later in your video after I'd already mentioned him! LOL.
I like seeing videos promoting Kioti, as that's what I own. Everybody likes to feel that they made a sound investment by seeing others speak well about something that you own!
I completely agree with you about competition. There is a saying I learned years ago, " One lawyer will starve, while two will prosper".
Thanks for putting more awareness out there for other and potentially better options for many people! love to do research and learned many things from your videos, but when we were in the market I couldn't deny the physical advantage and price point advantages of Kioti. We purchased a DK4710SE that was fully optioned and then some plus several attachments cheaper than what we could have even gotten into a bare bones Deere 3 series, let alone a 4 series with no attachments. We could be more pleased with our Kioti and that "big little tractor" blows me away by continuing to surpass my expectations when challenged against a large task!
I have a 16 year old Kioti CK25 with a manual transmission. It's been a great tractor.I wish I would have gotten a hydrostatic transmission when I'm doing loader work. On the channel you are talking about, he has taken cracks at Kioti for years. I like channels like yours where you stay neutral tractor and attachments.
I’m 5’10’, the price difference is the main reason I purchased a Kioti. The second reason is the open station space you’re sitting in.
I have a John Deere 6050e at my school, my FFA kids would rather drive my NX5010 because the open station is easier to use because of space.
I owned a John Deere 455 for 25 years, purchased new. It was time for an upgrade and I researched all the major brands. Th Kioti CS2520 won hands down. From the features to the build quality I could not justify the significant extra cost of the JD. Honestly it was hard to give up the green & yellow paint but 8 months in I have no regrets at all.
👍 Love it Courtney! I did a bit more direct reply to “yee whom shall not be named” and called out his FUD tactics - Fear Uncertainty and Doubt… oh so many choices these days. Thanks for weighing in, truly appreciate your perspective and POVs. 👍 - Josh
I’ve been following your channel for at least 3 years, I learned a lot from your expertise but more importantly, I enjoy what I believe is your honest opinion. FYI, I purchased a CX 2510 last year ❤it, along with a few implements demonstrated by you on your channel. This video makes me feel pretty good about my purchase. Thanks Courtney! 🇨🇦
Agree 100%.i had a JD - worst tractor I owned in 50 years. Cost hundreds every summer and you had to borrow a tractor til it was back. Kubota about the same, dealer claimed it was impossible for injection system to fail. Had to get a mechanic to pull it off and FORCE the dealer to pressure the injector pump & it shot diesel across the shop. 1200 repair they excused blaming the lack of diesel additives, never took responsibility for the failure. Bought a new Kioti years ago and have had one $400 repair since in 1000 hours
I own a kioti tractor for a year now. No problems. There is a dealership 12 miles away from me.
In December of 2021 my Kioti NX4510, manual trans. arrived. Complete with a 9ft Meyers front mount snow plow. Mowing in summer with a Woods 9 1/2 ft cutter. Now has 180 trouble free hrs. Local dealer was good to work with, D&J Sales. I now know this was the right choice for me.
I’m in the Longview Washington area. We just had a John Deere dealership close all the sudden. The Kubota and Kioti dealership are still running strong. Thanks for saying it like it is.🚜👊🇺🇸
Were they too small to compete with the big dealer south of the Columbia?
Neil had a very good point about future parts availability. You have a much better shot at getting parts for an old Deere or kubota than the secondary brands
There's parts for Kubota's from not that long ago that are no longer available. I get emails from time to time from customers wondering where they can find parts.
You're probably good with LS, new Holland, yanmar, and koiti as far as finding parts go. All are major international players with a steady presence in the US for a long time, even if that presence has been pretty small historically for all but new Holland.
Mahindra is also pretty big internationally, but their dealer support in the US has been questionable. While I've been able to find everything I've needed online for Mahindra so far, it has been much more work than I'd prefer.
@@spudgamer6049 add in Massey Ferguson (AGCO). Big company with large international presence. Great quality tractors to boot.
Maybe Kioti will see your videos and put you on their payroll, I would if I owned Kioti. The reason you’re the one I turn to is because of your honesty. Fingers crossed for you Mr. Courtney! On another note, we just moved my tractor and implements yesterday. The Vet who moved me was raised on a farm up North. He had heard of quick hitches but never saw one. We removed the implement I had that doesn’t work with one, hooked up the QH and he was impressed! I suggested he look at your online store of course…
Hope the move went smoothly Elaine!
@@GoodWorksTractors Dr Tye just was coming over to see what needed to be moved, next thing I knew between my 8x12 utility trailer and his equipment trailer we had it all at the new place before the sun went down as I can’t drive at night. Dr. Tye had it all unloaded after the sun went down and he enjoyed driving such a small tractor. For the first time all my implements are in our yard! There’s been a hiccup with the new pole barn being built for them. Out came the posts and more soil has been added because of a faulty laser level…
I agree more competition makes for company's that are forced to deal with problems as they lose business for not fixing problems. I cant say I own a Kioti tractor, I did look at them but bought a Kubota because of our new Bobcats at work. Ever since Bobcat was bought out years back they just seem like they have been going downhill. Thank God for a lot of options when I need to buy things.
Honestly, I prefer Case IH over many other brands. Nobody really talks about them but I was able to get a Farmall 55c Series II with all the bells and whistles including a cab, loader with a 72" bucket, and a backhoe with a 16" bucket and a thumb for what I would say is a pretty good deal considering everything that I got with it. $75k and some change. There might be some better deals out there, but for a 55 horse compact tractor thats ready to go straight off the trailer, I like to think that's not too bad.
You are right about CNH tractors. Quality tractors !
I sold my B series Kubota and got a brand new Ck4010 last year and have 60hours on it so far. It’s is legit amazingly a game changer for my family. We were so happy to be able to afford a great tractor that can do what we needed at our 25acre property.
20 years ago this same individual would troll a Kioti Forum on a large internet based tractor forum. I purchased a new Kioti back in 2005 and have never looked back. Still have the Kioti and still very pleased with the Kioti! My dealer is still going strong and could not be happier for him.
I just purchased a new LS MT225E. In the end it came down to dealer support. I was going to buy a Kioti or a TYM but the local dealers are lacking to put it politely. I settled on LS because the local dealer has been in business for nearly 75 years and has a great reputation. Also, I don't see having an issue with getting parts from LS or Mitsubishi (engine) for many years as they are both globally established companies. I'd sure like an orange or green tractor but I wanted to buy new and couldn't justify the price. Thanks for all your great videos!
I bought a Kioti about 7 years ago and love it. It does all I need and more. Was much better priced than others and is built better.
You talk about warranty and wait time. I purchased a stihl weedeater on father's day. 4 weeks and it went in for warranty work for the clutch. 5 and a half weeks later mowing season almost over and I get it back. When I dropped it off they said a week to complete. Very sad. So yeah I truly believe they drag feet on warranty work
First, he didn't say not to buy anything that wasn't a Kubota or a Deere. (As he pointed out, his dealership sells other brands, too.) He simply warned that there is a growing risk that some of the brands now in the market would not survive a likely consolidation and that this risk should be considered when making a decision which tractor to buy. He pointed out that the buyers of some orphaned tractor brands have not been hurt too badly when the maker of their tractor left the market. Others cannot get parts or support. It can be very hard to predict which tractors will be affected and which won't. After all, you can still get (or make) any part you might need for a 1952 Ford 8N. But, even if you can get parts for your particular tractor, the resale value of your orphaned tractor almost certainly drop.
Second, what he-who-shall-not-be-named said didn't differ in any material respect from what you, Courtney, were saying just a few years ago. Back then, you warned that buying a tractor from one of the smaller brands entailed more risk than buying a Deere or a Kubota. The economy has changed since then. That's true. It's also true that buying a Kioti (or one of the even smaller brands) is still riskier than buying a Kubota or Deere. The difference in price might make it worthwhile to accept that risk, but that doesn't mean the risk doesn't exist. Summit offers a lot more bang for the buck than either Deere or Kubota. For some, the extra features and (possibly) lower price are worth relying on an independent shop for service. Summit vets and trains the technicians in these shops, but its NOT the same thing as having a dealer network available to service the tractor.
Third, did he take a shot at 'influencers' who are provided tractors for use on their channel? In a way, he did. But, in a way, he was justified in taking that shot. As you, yourself, have pointed out, your videos are made to help you sell stuff. You don't promote products and services that you don't believe in, but neither do you go out of your way to promote things for which you're not paid (either with the company paying you as a form of advertising or as a form of advertising for your own business). There's nothing wrong with that! Neither is there anything wrong when 'Outdoors With Tom' switches from tractor brand X to brand Y because brand Y offered him a better deal than brand X to use brand Y in his videos. There is NOTHING unfair about pointing out that Tom's choice of tractor brand Y was hardly an objective decision. Tom's NOT using brand Y because he thinks its the best buy. He's using it because he's being paid to use it.
Lastly, Courtney, let's remember why the video you're critiquing was made. He-who-must-not-be-named had recently received a number of requests for help in finding parts for orphaned tractors. That's what prompted the video. In that context, he believed that the increasing probability of a consolidation in the tractor market should be addressed. He wasn't hoping for a consolidation. He wasn't arguing that some brands should go away because he doesn't like their products and can't stand the competition. He was simply explaining why many industry insiders believe a consolidation will take place. The market simply won't support this many smaller brands. That's neither good nor bad, it just is.
Sure didn't take Neil's video the way you did. Thought it was pretty rational outlook on the industry which is why I watch his videos (and yours). Every industry goes though cyclical expansion and contraction, and I think his point is we are at a contraction point. When I bought my 1025R 5 years ago, there wasn't a Kioti dealer within a couple hundred of miles - so no chance to compare. BTW - can't find a Rimguard dealer within a couple hundred miles either (I live in SC Kentucky) - they really need to expand their dealer network. Based on the ending of your video, you actually seem to agree with Neil....😂
Your video is totally on point. High quality plus a fair price adds up to solid value for the consumer. I don't care how great a tractor is - if the price is too high, it represents a poor value.
I'm very happy with my Kioti DK5310SE Cab tractor. After 3 years of use, it still gets the job done for me on my 21 acre homestead. I'd buy it again in a heartbeat.
Take care and God Bless.
TYM T 264 here! 25 hp and blows away the same Deere I almost bought for $4 k less with WAY higher capacities. Kukje engine made by Cummins since 1959 all mechanical fuel system, once it starts no electronics. I never heard of Kukje, but the Cummins name did it. Zero issues. Dealer 45 minutes away.
I watched the video to which you were referring. I thought the point of the video was that they are too many players entering the sub-compact market and there are not enough units bought to sustain them all. Neil was making a point of buy from a brand that has shown a commitment to tractor production so there is a good chance they will be around to support part requirements in the future.
That’s only based on a US market when most of these companies are global. Plus, multiple brands under a parent manufacturer. Vital information intentionally excluded to build a case for his own brand.
They don't just sell Kubota Tractors@@GoodWorksTractors
I have had a kioti for about 6 years---rx7320. Prior to the kioti I had a j/d 4600. I paid 31,000 for the rx open station and the Deere was 41,000. Very happy with my purchase,,, nothing against Deere and their products. I just did not see a 10,000 dollar difference . My kioti also came with a 5 year warranty,,,,
I was going to buy a John Deer a few years back........drove to a dealer to purchase. I told them where I lived (about 20 miles away) the salesman said there would be a delivery fee, but he never told me how much. He then said the tractors were outside on the left and went and sat down at his desk.
My wife and I left..........on the way home we rode by a Mahendra dealer by accident. Went inside a salesman ran out and showed me his new and used inventory. I asked about a new tractor he had, he then suggested I drive it around the lot. I asked what would delivery cost, he said nothing. I asked how much would it cost to pick the tractor up for service, and again he said nothing. He quoted us a price including tax. We paid cash then and there for the tractor.
The John Deere salesman acted like he wasted his time talking to us.....
100% agree with you and Brock about the video information put out in response to Neil's video. I have a kubota L3130 and if I had to replace it today I would not hesitate to buy a TYM , Kioti or even a Ls.
We recently purchased our 1st tractor after a few months of research, a Kioti CK2620 SE HST from a "new" Kioti dealer; they have long been a heavy equipment rental company and have expanded into retail tractor sales. So far, while it took a while for our tractor to be completed, and for them to receive the implements we ordered with it, and trucked the hour + from their location to our property, we're happy with the experience. They even just picked it back up two days ago to truck it back to their shop to install the mid PTO that was missed being installed before it was delivered.
I love seeing you finally praise kioti. For years I have left comments on your channel and even you basically said John Deere and Kubota were the best. I will never look back I have 2 and love them!!
God bless you Courtney for helping people to realize what true value is. Capability, usefulness, and price - unbiased. That’s why I bought mine. Thank you once again for being real and honest. I wish you’d move down to Texas!
Bought a Bobcat (basically, a Kioti). Bobcat has a great dealer network in my area (like 4 within an hour radius). Attentive guys at the dealership. Great machine for a good price. And, I like the white and orange. Currently at 50 hrs. No issues.
The bobcat dealer where I'm at also sell echo weedeaters and chainsaws where I'm at. I've liked my dealing with them so far. Very responsive, knowledgeable, and helpful. Even when only buying small things.
Neil Messick really poked the bee's nest with his video! Rockhill Farm also did a video taking issue with Messick. Interestingly Tractor Time with Tim did a similar video saying all the rebranded tractors was not sustainable but I guess he wasn't as smart alecky as Messick so it didn't upset other youtubers.
I’ve had my Kioti for 3 years. Bought it in Murphisburo Tennessee. Great tractor super lift. Have the rear tires flooded and always carry my 6 foot tiller on the back for ballast. CK4210 hydrostatic drive. Love it. Saved enough off of a John Deere to buy my loader.
Right at 08:30 of your video you said exactly what Neil was saying. Branson, gone/adsorbed. Cabela’s tractors, gone. Cub Cadet compacts, gone. Bobcat did sell compact tractors prior, those models, parts can be extremely hard to find. Same with Cub Cadet. What his point was. He never said Deere and Kubota were the only ones to buy, just to be careful when shopping. As for the TH-camrs, I have seen a few all about the brand they were sponsoring / provided equipment, when the contract ran out the new brand is the best thing ever.
I’m not a dealer in anyway, but I do see brands like Mahindra, LS, Massey sell for a significant lower price used than Kubota/Deere here in CT. I know I sold my BX2380 for more than the comparable other brands this past spring.
Same if you sold a Honda /Toyota versus a Hyundai or Kia. The Honda or Toyota will always bring more money. Not saying the Hyundai or Kia are bad, but facts are facts.
You missed my point about Branson. They are supported through TYM. You can still get parts. Cabelas tractors were made by TYM. TYM didn't build Cabelas a brand new tractor from the ground up. It's based on the TYM machine, so the parts are still there.
The message of only buy brands "a, b, c" because "x, y, z" may not be around tomorrow is fearmongering. The little guys should just give up and let the big boys do there thing. No thanks.
@@GoodWorksTractors Neil, yes he will be biaseed, but his point is right on. That being is for the end user who bought a Branson or a Cabela's specifically will be resales and parts availability. Yes you can get parts but sometimes those parts do not cross reference and are difficult to find. This has been common since X manufacture built it but the now defunct brand had specific features/parts that the manufacture no longer makes. An older Yanmar model versus a JD Yanmar made, same tractor, will have some parts that are brand specific. TYM made both the Branson and Cabela's but the 2 different brands had specific features the other did not. His message and statement in his video were to be careful of that. Brands will come and go, parts will be hard to find, resales for the consumer of off brands will be effected. Some will be SOL like the owners of Cub Cadets. The older Bobcat tractors are having the same fate, cannot cross reference, cannot get parts. @TractorMike has made this point many times as well.
I am not saying there is not a market for other brands nor am I, or was Neil, saying other brands were bad but something has to give. The market/sales numbers are not there to support all of these brands and inventory. Unlike automobiles the government does't have a X year requirement on parts.
@@chocolyle1216 Regarding Branson...this is from TYM's website. I don't see the downside. They still have parts and support and now have a bigger network to seek it from. tym.world/en-us/media/stories-articles/integration-faq-branson-owners/
Where should I go to get help and support?
For now you can continue to visit your Branson dealer or distributor. And soon, you will be able to buy and request services for Branson tractors at all TYM dealerships.
What does this mean for my current service and warranty?
Your current service and warranty will remain the same. Your services continue to be logged, processed, and updated the same way.
What are some major changes I can expect?
With the integration of TYM and Branson tractors, you can expect to see network expansion, better customer services, increased supply of parts and more product options.
@@GoodWorksTractors Cool for Branson owners. Now what about en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_tractor_manufacturers
I know, a lot of these don't count but point being.
Amazing video, I wanted thank you for your videos. I been in the market for a tractor for a year now. Thanks to your videos I been focusing on dealer support. I wanted to get a JD 1025R but unfortunately I seriously been to 4 different JD dealers and was not happy. All the sales man acted like they where doing you a favor. When I ask about the features, they gave me a brochure. The service guys where all arrogant A holes. When they where on the phones with service customers they seem like they where talking down to them. Kubota was a little better but not by much. Yanmar and Massey Ferguson dealer where super nice and actually took the time to explain things to me. The service guys where giving me tips on how to keep a tractor lasting forever.
Courtney, I pray that you might become a Kioti dealer! I was in the SCUT market for nearly a year. I have a New Holland and JD dealer withing a half mile of my home. The JD dealer in Big Rapids, MI has been bought out by Hutson. No longer family owned. The New Holland dealer had nothing on his lot without a cab. I primarily use my SCUT for mowing and snow removal. I went 45 miles west and looked at a dealer that is family owned and sells both the LS and Kioti brands. The owner of the dealership told me that they sold their LS SCUT and bought the Kioti because they thought it was a better tractor. I came home and did a ton of research.
Specification wise, the Kioti beat bot JD and Kubota handily. Price wise, I could take my wife to dinner at Ruth Chris Steakhouse once a month for a year for the prince difference. Customer service? Even the farmers in the place were helpful. They saw that I was a new face and asked me what I needed!
I bought a Kioti CS2520 with FEL and MM mower deck for less than JD wanted for their 1025R bare bones. The dealer in Fremont, Michigan in May of 2023 had 15 percent of the SCUT market. The owner told me that he wants to be at 30 percent in the next year. My dealer has maintenance parts on the shelf and has been an ag dealer for over a century. Man, PLEASE become a Kioti dealer.
I saw the video you’re referencing to. I’m not sure he was telling them to go out of business just that the market may not be big enough to support that many dealers.
Nowadays, I wouldn’t consider a new John Deere. I would look at an older one that is built heavy. I stopped at the dealer the other day and saw the construction quality. The hydraulic piston rods are about half a thick as TYM or kiote. That really concerns me when you are moving. Lots of weight up in the air and sometimes it’s not always perfectly straight.
I wish you'd look at LS also. I know of 5 other LS owners in my area and myself who are very happy with their LS tractors. And like Kioti, LS tractor models comparable to Kubota and Deere, come out with better lifting capacity, more comfortable cabs, more features etc. My LS came out $14,000 less than a comparable John Deere. $10,000 less than the Kubota. So gentleman or gentle woman, don't just look at D and K.
Been very satisfied with my LS XR4150 a lot of tractor for 29k
I am new to the tractor world and on my second tractor.The first one was a B2601 and sold it , struck while the iron was hot. I now have a Kioti CS2220,downsized, and went in a different direction. Completely satisfied with the Kioti.
Kioti NS5310, have owned it for 3 years now, bought it new. It has been a Great tractor, love the two pedal hydrostat,lifts every thing I've tried to pick up, pulls like a mule and has never broke.
Definitely a great tractor and I would buy another one!
Butch
Ashland Ohio
We bought a second hand 2017 Kioti 4510 4x4 with H-Shuttle gearing (625 hours). It has the front loader and the backhoe attachments and has so far been a great tractor! Been on them all, JD, Kubota, Case, IH, Massey, Ford, NH, you name it. This Kioti is just as well built (if not better) than most of them at a much better price. I've been around tractors in the farm related and construction industries for 48 years, kinda have some experience with them.
You're right! People need to do their business in their area and stop traveling hours away from home!!!!😮😅
Kioti is also getting into the construction industry with their own brand of skid steer loaders. They also are now making 110+ hp tractors. I’d say that is making the other companies a little nervous. I love my Kioti! It is a CK2610. It is the perfect size to get some real work done, but still I am able to mow my yard with it using a 5ft finish mower. Great brand with knowledgeable dealers, who actually around where I live use them to farm with. Enjoy the videos! Take care!
Have you done a video comparing Kioti and TYM? I'd love to hear your thoughts about dealer networks, reliability, value, etc.
I was pricing a JD when I ran across a Cubcadet /Yanmar EX450, then I began to notice that everything on a JD990 looked very familiar. I'm fairly sure it was the same Yanmar tractor that I eventually bought only it was painted green and the hood shape was different. Same frame, back fenders and engine, but over 10k less. All of this happened in 2009 and all of the local JD only farmers said I couldn't get service and maybe they will be right someday but it hasn't needed any service since I bought it. I just change fluids every year and run it.
I've had a Kioti Rx7320 for 2 years and it's been a tank. It takes a beating doing some very rough bush hogging and land clearing. It's been great and I have 4 dealers within a 2 hour drive.
I just bought a Kioti NS5310 for our property. I looked at Kioti, TYM, John Deere, and Kubota. I really thought I would buy a Kubota. But after pricing them out, I could get the Kioti, with better standard equipment, for significantly less than the big name brands. Attachments were the same. I finally came down to the TYM 574 versus the Kioti NS. I ended up going with the Kioti based on input from people here on youtube. Price for the TYM was less, but financing for Kioti made the take-home price almost exactly the same. Both the Kioti and TYM dealers were awesome. I ended up going Kioti because the dealer is 8 miles from my house, and 65 miles to TYM. I would make the same decision again and again. We have used the Kioti VERY HARD, and in the first 100 hours, it has performed awesomely. I would make the same decision time and again. I love the Kioti.
I’m really glad to see you open up to other brands especially Kioti. I’ve also been eyeing up TYM. Watching FB tractor groups it is obvious that every tractor breaks regardless of paint color. The tractors coming out of South Korea are really nice and they may have standard items that are expensive options for JD or Kubota. Just look at what comes standard on the CK20SE models. However, the biggest downfall of these other brands is the dealerships. Not just that there’s less dealers but some are not following through on delivering a solid machine to the customer and not doing proper servicing.
Dealer sales is just as important. My closest Kubota dealer sucks, they just sell you what you ask for not what you need or try to help you find out what you need. They just sold my extended family member a Kubota L3902 for a 1 acre property. Clearly they didn’t ask anything, just took the money.
I think it’s a great thing you are doing by give people honest facts and supporting brands that you truly believe in. I live in a huge John Deere farming community. The only other tractor that even comes close to the volume of John Deeres in the area were the old Farmall 140s due to this being tobacco country in North Carolina. I dreamed of owning that JD green but with their prices I know that is just a dream not destined to come true. The fact that you have given honest support to brands like Kioti is helping to turn heads to a brand that can beat JD and give customers a reliable and capable tractor with selling your soul to be able to afford. I like with 30 minutes of 2 JD dealership and just over an hour for a Kioti dealer. With the information and specs that you provided I feel comfortable and confident in taking that hour drive to look at a Kioti instead just biting the bullet and buying JD green for less features at a higher cost. I think it’s an awesome thing that you have the platform that you do to shed a light on what quality products that are out there. Thanks for being an honest source of information for the tractor community! Keep up the great content!
Nah, Messick's was saying that there is a flooded market of tractor brands for not much market volume. There are going to be some brands that don't make it, so as a tractor buyer, be careful and research, because no one wants a Montana tractor. Summit seems like a tractor that becomes a Montana.
I have had my Kioti for over a year now, and LOVE it! I can't believe all the things the tractor can do.
I'm in the market for a mid 30HP tractor and have been doing my research for a while now. About to purchase the Kioti CK3710. What swayed me? The business model of JD and Kubota is rubbish. No transparency on pricing, the dealers have no interest. We have first hand experience with JD of the price being set for who you are. They make great kit, but not great enough to justify the heartache. (This is all in Australia, maybe its different in the US). Ps - awesome channel, lovin the honest and informed videos.
Good video. Glad you didn’t give up
So I own a kubota L3901, my boss owns a Kioti 3510se. I really wish I had looked at Kioti it definitely lifts more than my kubota. Plus I like the 2 peddle system better.