How much does Nahida improve DENDRO teams? (Rerun Analysis)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- Looking at various dendro reaction archtypes and giving my perspectives on how impactful nahida is in those ahead of her rerun in version 4.4.
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timestamps:
0:00 intro
0:24 nahida's adaptation is hard to calc
1:28 nilou bloom
3:40 skill reapply issue
4:34 alternatives
6:30 quicken (aggravate, spread)
7:00 quickswap friendly
7:52 no heal/no shield team issue
8:49 zhongli
10:50 changing the ranking
11:27 hyperbloom
12:07 kuki shinobu
14:10 nahida works so well
14:32 ganyu burning melt
16:30 don't get nahida just for burnmelt
16:56 finished rankings
18:15 check out my twitch!
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#nahida #genshinimpact #hoyocreators #genshintrailer - เกม
my 32 page nilou mains bloom guide: 😅 docs.google.com/document/d/13LNlnxmSk4pZw-1O-4f2d8QfHgLVmPxrtN-iN774SGc
All hail the Great Nilou Scriptures 🙌🏽
THE ONLY HYDRO IM MISSING IS NILOU
SHE DODGED ME TWICE
Not sure if you've mentioned this before but how would Furina do in a Nilou team with Yao Yao and Nahida? While the damage received would increase her off field application can work with Yao's burst and Nahida's E. Maybe it works only in my head but I think it would be a fun team to just pop every CD and run around enemies with YaoYao and Nahida would benefit a decent amount from Furina's burst.
While it's "wasteful" to use Furina in that team It seems like fun on paper
@@RhyhmxNgl I had similar thoughts of Yao Yao driving Furina and Yelan to take better advantage of her cons besides the usual fav spear + heal bot build she is used as. But mine is still c3 and I want to test with at least c4 and ideally c6.
Probably won't be getting much blooms but it's supposed to supplement the dmg from double hydro core.
As for your suggestion, I tried it and there is less circle impact which feels nice, but no results that Kokomi with Sac Frag can't replicate.
as Nilou main, thank you sm for thiss
i'd prefer using baizhu over her in aggravate but in any other team not having nahida feels like a detriment to my sanity.
how about proto amber nahida in aggravate teams?
@@digeon6465 It's usable if you can perfectly dodge attacks or use another defensive dendo option instead of anemo. If not, then its not as good.
I’d say that only in cyno aggrivate baizhu is more preferable
@@18shailesh_ i don't really know about cyno teams but in both yae miko and keqing you definitely want fischl+kazuha/sucrose replacing any of them feels like playing shit and nahida makes swirl setups a little annoying
i will use yaoyao instead of nahida for aggaravate keqing team
She IS Dendro, that's how much she improves them
One thing I don't like is how many people seem so adverse to play Dendro teams without Nahida, and ignoring all the good and viable options. While they'll mostly be downgrades, characters like Baizhu, Yaoyao, Kirara, Collei, and Dendro Traveler each have respectable pros and can still be viable Dendro options when looking to 36-star. Especially on Quicken teams, I feel like Nahida's value is overblown when other units like Baizhu have a real incentive to be played over her.
hopefully I did a decent job covering alternative options here
They also tend to overlook defensive options like Baizhu and Kirara.
Those two are big comfort options in Aggravate teams especially with Keqing, since she does CAs a lot she have no stamina for dodging so a shielder is really appreciated
Kirara without C4 its a pretty bad option, its a huge downgrade. With C4 is nice but without it its not a really good option. Collei is definitely not a good option xd, in some nilou team it can work but its not enough good because of low ultimate duration, yao yao same problem as collei is that his pet is not on field too much time. Baizhu definitely an overall good option but a lot of people dont have him because of being a nahida "downgrade" at least in terms of damage. I see challenging playing dendro without nahida because the other subDPS/support options got a lot of troubles. Alhaitham doesnt count of course because he is an onfield, but he is excellent to play dendro based team obviously.
@@santi3256 kirara even without c4 is still a strong option in nilou bloom. i've even uploaded speedruns with that 😅
@@santi3256 Assuming you're playing quickswap it's really not, quicken lasts on the target for 11s at the least and 16s at the most and it's incredibly easy to get the latter on Kirara thanks to her Q + collision and hit on E. There's very few aggravate/spread teams where you'll need more than 16s of field time before switch backing to Kirara and it's one of the reasons she's generally the best support for Keqing/Tighnari.
I’ve been able to 36 star with Nilou/Collei/Candace/Yaoyao, so it’s definitely do-able to play Nilou Bloom without Nahida. It’s not perfect nor is it easy, so Nahida provides an immense upgrade over them.
Same. I use dendro mc candace yaoyao. But definitely going to pull for her to see how much my bloom team improves
Would you mind tell me yaoyao's weapon and arte?
@@hendywijaya3213 For weapon especially in a nilou bloom team, I would definitely recommend favonious lance. For artifacts, there's a few options. HP/healing bonus sets if you are struggling to survive, and for more offensive options you can either use EM sets or even 4p instructor
One thing Nahida has is comfort of use.
25s of off-field 1.5u of Dendro just feels so good when building teams for elemental reactions.
Really enjoyed the video and it was very helpful since ill be going for c0 nahida and was thinking about pulling nilou in the future 😄
Two things to note. Nahida is definitely NEEDED in burn melt teams. But compared to melt teams she's a side grade (a pretty comfortable one in my opinion). Secondly Nahida can run Prototype Amber and be a pseudo healer in defenseless teams, this can sometimes be enough to keep you alive until the end of the floor. She does lose personal damage though so it's still a bit of a trade off (still way higher than Baizhu/Yaoyao/Kirara tho). C4 Kirara is quite nice for Keqing teams because of the extra interruption resist and still decent AoE dendro application. You don't need much dendro app, but you do like it to be AoE.
He shows ganyu melt, which is capable enough by xiangling since ganyu doesn’t have that much cryo application. Meanwhile I am playing wriothesley, and bruh I have to guess when is Thomas’ pyro application capable to multiply my fifths cryo dmg. Since burn is continuous I think it might be easier than use thoma or xiangling, and give more stay up times to do the damages. (At the end of the day we haven’t got pyro xingqiu yet)
@@Jianener I was just saying that she is needed in burnmelt teams, the Xiangling variant is fine yes, but it's a melt team. Burnmelt is by definition Pyro+Dendro+Cryo so they are different archetypes. Only Nahida, as far as I'm aware, has enough dendro application to continuously keep up the burning aura, and it's self replenishing for the full duration of her skill which is huge comfort for melters that don't follow strict rotations like Ganyu. I could never go back to regular melt Ganyu at this point lol.
@@JianenerXiangling's pyro app is *much* better than Thoma's
IMO burgeon teams truly NEED Nahida. For a good burgeon, one gotta provide truckloads of hydro and dendro.And DMC's burst is disabled by pyro app! But when it works (like nahida xq thoma yaoyao, nahida driver), it's great fun.
We need a good pyro unit for burgeon. If we could replace Thoma, Baizhu could be a stand in for Nahida in burgeon.
I think Alhaitham can substitute as the Dendro applier for Thoma Burgeon team, I tried the "Rainbow Alhaitham" team (AH/Xq/Kuki/Thoma) and it's pretty fun
Although you could argue that Nahida is needed for Burgeon Klee or pseudo-Burgeon Yoimiya & Hu Tao bcs of their high Pyro application.
But then again Baizhu could be an alternate option for them
Nahida Klee Furina Kuki/Baizhu is a fun burgeon team!
intergrassional is another example. Basically the strongest hydro applicator in the game + strongest dendro applicator in the game, this team literally dont work without nahida.
The addition of a cryo or electro character helps a lot balancing and controlling the auras in burgeon especially without Nahida, which is why Zajef came up with the “culinary” teams. With only pyro and hydro other than dendro, I agree that you basically need either Nahida or two dendro characters in proper burgeon teams (where burgeon is the main source of damage) and using two slots just for dendro application is quite underwhelming
Another banger! I am going to get Nahida next patch
Congrats on 10k
I think there should be a clear line inside the quicken section between aggravate and spread. while indeed aggaravte teams lack a defensive utility, and sometimes end up needing baizhu, yaoyao or kirara. But i must point out that this isnt the case for spread teams.
For exp alhaitham spread team can use kuki healer as a defensive option, with a double dendro/electro team with nahida, alhaitham, kuki/zhongli and fischl/yae miko. and since the team would be focus mainly on spread damage, with aggravate on the back ground it wouldnt need to slot kazuha. spread focused teams not needing to slot kazuha will slot nahida.
I must also point out that a pure hyperbloom team is diffrent from a quickbloom team. a hyperbloom focused team, would mainly focus on maximizing hyperbloom dmg. meanwhile quickbloom focuses on balancing between spread/aggravate dmg and hyperbloom dmg.
The balance is achieved by maintaining quicken aura active to act as supply dendro aura for both bloom thus hyperbloom, and spread/aggravate, by using a hydro unit with an application that supports this balance, and double dendro characters in general for spread variant of quick bloom. for the aggravate of quickbloom one dendro character would suffice in most scenarios.
Speaking of quickbloom teams, since the team has hyperbloom dmg in addition to spread/aggravate, we already have a defensive option that acts both as healer and hyperbloom trigger, who is kuki for spread focused alhaitham quickbloom team with C0 yelan, and this would allow to slot nahida.
Aggravate sided quickbloom cyno team for exp, can use both Baizhu as defensive option, Nahida and Furina will fill the role for an optiomal hydro applier, and also buffing. this team probably statistically represents the highest damaging cyno team so far.
for chevreuse cyno team compotion, i do agree that its a brand new team for cyno that can work but isnt optimal as cyno's kit was mainly designed to work in it's full potential in quickbloom team.
In conclusion, Nahida can slot in most dendro team compositions, spread, hyperbloom, quickbloom... without hindering the lack of defensive option, except in aggravate teams in which as you pointed out, there would be a lack of a defensive option, thus it'd be better to use characters such as baizhu in that case, especially since kazuha is great here as the team is aggravate focused.
In short , she's basically an upgrade on almost any dendro teams in the game except for maybe aggravate team since you can't always swirl electro
not quite, the electro swirl thing isn't much of a deal. instead, in the video i focus more on quicken teams having too many offensive characters and not enough teamslots making defensive alternatives to nahida more attractive for most players.
I just play nahida baizhu core with yae fish electro core
Very comfortable and easy to play
@@jamiekb9v
If all you care about is defensive utilities in the game you can use nahida with prototype amber
Yae need Nahida
Yae clears pretty fast without nahida@@saudmubarak1542
hi jamie! i just pulled nahida after wanting her since i started playing since I am a Nilou main. I was wondering, when its better to build Kokomi with OHC instead of FoLP. I had mine with the latter cause I used to have Baizhu as a healer but I don’t know if triple EM Koko is enough to heal the whole team D:
Love your vids, hope you can answer even though is kinda late lol
As someone who has the worst nahida banner luck. I really want her but i feel like i dont need her anymore. This helped me see that besides alhaitham quick bloom and burgeon . She doesnt to to much. Ima not gonna wish day one to see how cr preforms
For burgeon, i play it relatively often and its kinda similar as with hyperbloom.
Nahida tends to be the best option in burgeon, in some teams she can be substituted with on-field Yaoyao/Baizhu, but its not as good as Kokomi/Ayato variants that truly need Nahida.
i think she'll aways be dendro meta because she's the only one that applies for whole 25s and gives a good EM boost but as new dendro characters will be released there will probably will start becoming more replaceable
The design of archons (except Venti) of an infinite support skill with good off field application will be very hard to powercreep. Aside from Zhong Li pillar, they're so easy to maintain as well in rotation, they learned what sells well and are maintaining the trend.
thoughts on getting nahida for wriothesley burn melt (with bennett thoma)? (i also dont have shenhe or kazuha)
Is Burgeon missing from the tier list or am I just blind? 🙂Thanks for the vid!
Excellent video. Personally i play her in spread, and hyperbloom, quickbloom, but Use baizhu in agravate for many reasons. Can't remember if you mentioned it, but another reason i don't like her in agravate is her dendro app can overwrite and make swirls hard. Baizhu is so comfy. Yae/keqing , fischl, kazuha, baizhu is my go to for agravate.
I wonder why didn't mention prototype amber nahida for the quicken team ? With all the s and Fischle healing herself kazuha being in the air half the time it sufficient enough most abysses.
prototype amber has an inbetweener issue. it's not good enough of a healing tool to satisfy players who needed the defensive utility, and on the other side it also reduces nahidas dmg too much to be worth it for players who don't particularly need healers/shielders. it's just not convincing enough of an option which is why it has little popularity with the wider playerbase
@@jamiekb9v fair enough
@@jamiekb9v I don't know if I would agree that in between is an issue. I'm sure there are plenty of people in between "I eat damage for breakfast" and "I am a dodge god".
No, I wouldn't take it to a consecrated beast fight, but literally for every cycle before that I ran healer Nahida and half a slot of healing is just what I needed.
The real reason why more people don't run Prototype Amber is that you really need to R5 it, and spending 5 billets on a healing weapon is just not sexy to the average player.
I mean, what percentage of Neuvillette players run Prototype Amber? It's basically his default F2P option, and yet...
@@phoenixlau where are you seeing that Prototype Amber is unpopular on Neuvillette? Seems like one of his selling points was how strong he was c0r0. His book is a big boost on him but it didn't seem like a Homa/Aqua situation where lots of people pulled just for stats. And I don't think having Prototype Amber R5 is that unusual... anyone who's been playing for a while will have some billets laying around, and it's by far the best craftable catalyst.
im saving for nahida banner since i got no other good dendro character. im playing dmc atm and he is pretty nice but there is a huge gap between dmc and nahida. additionally i will take yaoayo from lique character selector to play on keqing aggravate team
I think burgeon is one of the teams worth mentioning because i think that's actually a team that recently received a buff where I think she is a direct downgrade over the other dendro healers.
Also with the release of Furina,burgeon actually has a niche Nilou Bloom doesn't - enabling forward vapes.
The thing about burgeon is that without an electro teammate, Nahida's damage is pretty non existent,so she is kind of a dead slot on the team
The dendro healers like Yaoyao or Baizhu don't have this issue since they don't care about spread damage
Also considering Furina has great synergy with burgeon since self damage = more fanfare stacks AND burning enables forward vapes,Furina + Yaoyao/Baizhu form the optimal burgeon core
If you don't want to plau double hydro,just Yaoyao/Baizhu has enough application - especially if you are playing double pyro you don't need to much pyro.If you are playing double hydro you need to onfield Baizhu
Not having kazuha for international and nahida for alhaitham hyperbloom for a year now, no character is a must pull i guess 😀 Still gonna get them to upgrade experience
does nilou bountiful core damage only scales off her hp or also the em of the trigger?
i’ve used nahida for so much that it feels hard to imagine that i used to play teams without her. i think my fav team without her is aggravate cause of the amount of options u have and her damage rlly isn’t necessary to clear and they function pretty well. like yaoyao or DMC
My favorite team in the game is just slapping my hyper c2 Raiden with Nahida Fischl Kazuha. Usually I don't run floor 12 with it, just 11 and bellow. It's not optimal, I don't even bother to switch artifacts untill they implement presets, but it feels so smooth to play.
C2 Nahida is an absolute game changer seeing reactions crit for 60-90k is the most satisfying thing about her and the def shred is broken as well but ofc even c0 she still deletes everything
Going for her c2 after getting lucky with Raiden c2, only took half of the wishes I had. Probably will have 180+ pulls for it, hopefully enough for 2 copies, she is c0.
@@rafael_lanagood luck my friend 🙏🏼
love ur vid!!
Great video as usual. Imo Nahida on Pamber still does more damage than both Karara and Baizhu while still giving you that extra survivability. The Keqing team barely takes damage as it is and Pamber supplies more than enough full team healing for surviving.
What C2 would you suggest pulling for? Nahida's C2 or Furina's C2?
i’m a c6 baizhu main going for my first nahida on this rerun, it’ll be exciting to use her in these teams and see the difference it makes! i doubt she’ll replace him in aggravate since fischl/yae/baizhu/kazu is so comfortable to play (and one of my fav teams) but in others it’ll be fun to use her. thanks for the guide !!
Excuse me, if I have Nahida at C6, which team can I use to fully maximize her potential? I mean the overall team damage, utilizing all of her constellations to their fullest.
How about C2 Nahida? Can you make similar matrix or calc how much the improvement for each team?
Isn't it literally just a 20% increase to team DPS? I don't think its value changes based on what dendro team you're using.
@@voii0777 it has less value if you're playing a burgeon team/burning team with no electro since it will only be buffing the transformative reactions
@@leonthomas2020 Oh yeah I guess it's not as effective for dendro teams that have their primary source of damage outside of dendro reactions
From personal experience, I mostly used Nahida in Spread, Burgeon, and some variants of QuickBloom teams.
I played a lot of yaoyao/nahida burgeon teams variations. The thoma/ razor/ xiangling burgeon teams I played with her is strong and fun to play BUT yaoyao exist and is free to pickup every lantern rite. Swapping her with nahida makes the team very tanky and comfortable to play, shes also a healer so its easier to put an offensive unit for the last slot. I would put her in very strong tbh, her aoe and application is still very powerful.
Forgot to add, for razor specifically nahida is in very huge but not mandatory. Razor team already have bennett so it just need application which nahida provide the best, but dmc still exist as a decent alternative.
Skill reapply esp in multiwave is really annoying when you have a dedicated onfielder that cant be easily swapped out.
where’s the nilou bloom link?
I really like your nuanced views on all topics but I wish you assessed Aggravate and Spread teams seperately here. From my experience, Nahida's buffing and batterying and DW convenience is so above and beyond anyone else for Spread carries (Nari and Haitham) that I would actually argue she's a must pull if you really enjoy those characters. She also boosts damage further with investment on your carries and her own C2. Since Spread teams usually don't have an Anemo it's also easier to just slot in Kuki as healer (or even a triple Dendro team with Baizhu/Yao/Kirara) and not really lose out on anything. Aggravate on the other hand Nahida can even cause problems, mainly with swirling Electro. It really gets so hard to swirl Electro if you're playing anything other than Fischl, especially after the first rotation. This problem only grows if your Anemo doesn't infuse. So I like using Baizhu in Aggravate teams a lot more, since they usually really want Fischl as well and you can cover your defenses with the Dendro unit. Just my two cents.
For burgeon it's pretty similar tk hyperbloom, her higher dendro app is substantial, and while that means more burning, good burgeon teams have units to consume the pyro.
She doesn't do spreads in burgeon so personal dmg is lower but she has perfect aoe coverage.
Also burgeon teams aren't as good or spammable so her being a good upgrade is even more felt
Heres a question for on field nahida nilou koko yelan what main stat build would you use
I have a video called showing my bloom team builds I recommend watching
@@jamiekb9v okay ty
Honestly imo sucrose can be a pretty good Nahida replacement in Spread teams, such as if Tighnari/Alhaitham are the DPS. Like sure it's good, but Sucrose buffs the entire party's EM, and can help with grouping.
I generally run Tighnari/Raiden/Sucrose/Yaoyao, and it works pretty well.
3:27 all 4 star team with 2 5 stars ?
thanks for the guide! I wish more people acknowledged comfort/convenience when deciding who to pull for. I know nahida is great, but I just like playing dendro traveler for hyperbloom in multi wave content, and baizhu in aggravate teams where I need defensive utility.
just as you said, these things are good to keep in mind when deciding who to pull ^^ between dendro traveler, yaoyao, baizhu, and to some extent tighnari, I think I’ve built enough dendro units 😂
also, nahida’s banners have always come at awkward times for me. I’d love to play nilou with nahida, but I don’t have nilou, so securing nilou will obviously be the higher priority.
for now, I’ll live vicariously through your amazing nilou videos 😊
DMC needs like 280 ER if you dont swap back to him to E twice (and if you do, you could've swapped to nahida to re-apply in multiwave content instead); hard to do in 4p deepwood. Hardly a comfort/convenience pick. Plus his circle and its elemental infusion needs.
Do you think getting c2 nahida just for my alhaitham quickbloom is worth it even though I don't have nilou?
depends if you have the primos and don't want other upcoming characters/reruns. it's strong but your choice
I don't usually like cons that don't change gameplay, but it is so powerful that I've considered getting her c2. However, I have never felt that I needed more damage when using my various Nahida teams, so I've always held off.
@dalzmc yeah I will go for c1 neuv and his sig
@@vortex5537 Exactly, I have c1 neuv because it changed something with gameplay/team restrictions. I need to pick up his sig too, good luck on your future pulls
My favorite aggravate team is probably Tighnari, Lisa, Fischl, and Baizhu, but only if Tighnari's on Viridescent Hunt, otherwise Lisa's getting booted for Kazuha because not having grouping sucks.
What about burgeon?
proto amber nahida in aggravate teams with kazuha is the best option
Burgeon is a much more general use case than Burn-Melt in my humble opinion. You should definitely build Thoma and give it a try if you're ever bored. Unfortunately I cannot comment on how relatively important Nahida is on Burgeon either 😅 because I never use anyone besides her. That being said, I can imagine it would be significantly worse.
anyway, goodnight!
shes very strong but there are other characters that does the job just fine, I mostly enjoy her in superbloom or spread!Tighnari
why do you think nahida is not mandatory in hyperbloom? because i feel like without her you need to use at least 2 dendro characters(im not sure about this you can correct me), saving a slot for an extra damage/defensive on the 4th slot.
cyno is decently popular and can play teams with just baizhu
@@jamiekb9vhow do you proc enough dendro app with only baizhu?? even on single target solo baizhu struggle to keep up with the dendro app if except if he’s on field (as a driver). With cyno you definitely would be on fielding with cyno resulting even less dendro app
adding some quickbloom stuff:
in electro driven quickblooms (like cyno) shes an absolute must imo. yes there are wave issues, but you lose out on a ton of aggravates from the lack of quicken uptime with baizhu or kirara. ESPECIALLY if playing with XQ who deletes quicken way faster than you want him to lol. you're gonna see a lot more electrocharge uptime than quicken without nahida.
in alhaitham quickbloom, XQ removes so many spreads from alhaitham that it doesnt really matter if she's there or not imo. she's definitely an upgrade to these teams but isn't some 100% necessary unit because with XQ the team is just a hyperbloom team anyway. once you drop XQ her value increases greatly, though, as the team becomes more spread than hyperbloom and will *rely* on her fast dendro application to catch the quickens. honestly alhaitham teams have a bigger XQ problem than a nahida problem, but thats genuinely first world problems as hyperbloom is still strong.
that said, one of the biggest arguments for alhaitham being the only S tier quickbloom teammate for nahida in practice is that he can effectively play dual ~8s rotations after 135 ER. really makes nahida's reliance on skilling new waves a non-factor as he can insta 3 mirror to keep going. invested cyno/furina teams go wild on paper but the multi wave elephant in the room will always be there.
there is also EM razor for which I'd say... Nahida is mandatory. DMC will work, but ....Nahida is usually the reason that you'll either play or not play the team. Or even think about making it first. so....
Clusterfuck team:
Dehya + Nahida + Kokomi + Yae Miko
Dehya has low pyro application and adds interupt resistance and burning aura. Kokomi is there to create dendro cores on ground as nahida has a high dendro application. Yae totems are random and can cause a overload (keeping mobs away) or other reactions.
Best part is that it has high survability. Downside is that it doesnt work well on single bosses.
this is a decent proper team. i used it a fair bit a while back.
About Cyno teams you're right, Nahida is in his best team (Nahida/Furina/Baizhu) but it's not needed! He does love her dendro app and EM buff tho
In my perspective she is needed for Nilou Bloom teams, because Nahida helps solidify their single target damage to a huge degree. And aggravate teams are better off without her .... The absense of defensive utility and difficulty of swirl setups makes the team only playable at very high investment or skill level which can be impractical for most
9:01 how can i see this stats?
the app YShelper
Nahida is a great unite to have in the account , but I really don't like how some people insists that she's a MUST pull for everyone , it basically comes to what teams do you have or plan to play , for nilou/cyno/burgeon the diffrence is huge without nahida , she's close to mandatory imo , but for teams like alhaitham quickbloom/ yae or keqing aggrevate they can perfectly function without nahida , even tho she will be a nice addition to these teams , I have her since her rerun and I really only use her in my Alhaitham team , since i didn't really like cyno and nilou and i didn't pull for them
It’s true some teams can function without her but Nahida is THE ceiling for any dendro team. The only reason no character is a must pull is because the game is too easy but if it had any endgame content Nahida would be a must pull to clear faster and easier unless you just truly avoid her at all costs
Nahida is not so good for cyno unless it's for bosses. Cyno's burst is too long for waves of enemies, and if you cut it too short, you're not gonna have enough ER and/or going to have to wait for a while while his CD is coming back up. I find dendro traveler the best with quick/hyperbloom cyno, since u can extend the duration and radius of their burst with hydro. So imo cyno has one of the worse synergies with nahida as an electro character. For other teams I find she's usually a comfort pick (unless there's an anti-synergy like with cyno). The long duration and the fact that she's a catalyst make her very comfy to use in almost any team, unless maybe u're facing the dancer boss (who WILL one-shot her lol)
@@Marz333 thankfully we still don't have that endgame content that forces you to pull for a specific character or their cons/weapon in order to clear it
If you are a new or newer player and cares for the abyss or combat focused events that are very hard, there will always be a must pull character and she is a must pull character. Outside of those, yes there are no must pull characters.
Mostly agree. I think it will depend on what chars you have. Dendro and hydro has a lot of options so you may or may not benefit massively from Nahida. Burnmelt and Burgeon seem impossible without her. Everything else has options going from 4* to 5*. My alt account has Alhaitham and I have for some reason still no Kuki since release, so my go to Alhaitham team is with Raiden and yaoyao, which is more than enough to melt through every content. I don't have any electro dps I use on there either so I never play quicken. Hyperbloom traveler is enough even when it feels weaker overall. Didn't really miss having her.
Meanwhile on my main I have Nilou and Kokomi and while Nilou works without Nahida; I think you can shuffle different dendro characters in there that aren't Nahida but then you need Kokomi or Baizhu for it to work best.
My overall would be:
Bloom: BiS , always upgrade but you can cope if needed
Burnmelt + Burgeon: Must have or cry
Hyperbloom: BiS for some chars, but can be situational and not must have. Always an upgrade generally
Cyno: Nahida is extremely annoying when there is multi waves content here, so traveler sometimes is a better option, which sucks bcs the dmg is lower
Quicken: not needed but usually an upgrade
I remember being excited for Nahida during her release and hoping it would make my Yae Aggravate team stronger, but now I don't use her there anymore. It's just like others said: swirls are too inconsistent with her around, even when you adapt your setups to accomodate her. The fact that her burst with two Electro teammates speeds up her app so much makes the timing for swirling very unforgiving. It's why I don't expect the Xianyun Aggravate teams to take off, even though they seem to be sheeting well. Her burst also isn't that strong even in these comps. A good chunk of your damage comes from the off-fielders, after all.
Nowadays, I just play her with Alhaitham, pretty good there. But for a character that's praised so much, and rightfully so, I'm not sure she was that useful of a pull for my account. For lack of a better word, Dendro is a more restrictive element than some people believe, so she's not that easy of a recommendation for me like others are.
i personally prefer yaoyao/baizhu over nahida in aggravate for comfort
my ganyu team is ganyu kirara bennett xiangling. kirara lets my bennet run gilded. looks kinda like this
ganyu skill, kirara skill, bennett skill, ganyu c6arrow, kirara burst, bennett burst, xiangling skillburst, then ganyu the rest of the way until pyronados gone and repeat.
nahida is very much needed to play cyno even tho its massive issue in multi wave if you don't have baizhu
what would you say is the best Cyno team without Nahida ?
Cyno, Baizhu, Furina, DMC/Fischl but Cyno is probably one of the few units where Nahida starts to feel necessary, most of the teams without her just feel awful to play due to Cyno's massive field time.
I'm surprised you didn't mention prototype amber, I use almost always use nahida everywhere and she never left prototype amber since a year except very rare difficult abyss clutches. The healing is infinitely better than none and with xingqiu's res, i rarely ever die. Her damage also isn't that important compared to the small but impactful healing, i would use nahida SO much less if she wasn't able to use prot amber.dd
Geo went missing from Genshin for nearly 2 years after 3 geo units were released in a row, Yun Jin, Itto, and Gorou.
Kaveh, Baizhu, and Kirara were released 3 in a row......
🤨
Most of the players say that nahida is a must
Thats why im not pulling for raiden cons and im saving for nahida
Im kinda building yaoyao n dendro mc already but they say that nahida will still be better so i stopped builing them for now they at lvl50 and 60
And i dont have any dendro teams built so this is crucial ig? 😂
Hmm
This video makes me think on what i should do
And I'm kinda picky on who i should pull or raise coz im a newer player so i only pull and raise characters that are beneficial or someone i like to use
So...
To give my 2 cents about this I hardly believe investing in dendro with the intent of not getting Nahida is just awful it doesn't help that during Sumeru they overloaded the dendro roster and we had 3 defensive dendro characters back to back released. In 4.x there will be no dendro character at all as well
Not the best but i play Keqing, Fischl,Nahida and my favorite character in game, Albedo in a quick swap team. Albedo is on archaic petra for electro buff and his burst gives a nice em buff. I don't have Kazuha and although on paper, Sucrose is better than Albedo in this team, I find him alot more fun and easier to use. Plus the damage isn't that much different compared to running Sucrose. Archaic isn't the easiest Artifact to manage but I think it helps bridge the gap when it works.
In Nilou teams, I prefer playing without Nahida than without Kokomi xP DMC + SacBow Collei are still comfy enough and better in multiwave content imo
I basically never use nahida in aggravate. I cannot play without a sheilder/healer and i use baizhu over nahida. And even before i got baizhu i was using yaoyao over nahida. Playing without a healer is just awful
Personally I think nahida on aggravate isn't that great cuz it's hard to swirl with that + less lion's roar uptime. But on any other dendro archetype it's not even a competition
Recently tried Kaveh Nilou Furina Baizhu and felt really good to play! Would recommend if you really want to play Kaveh bloom. Nahida Nilou Furina Baizhu is my most comfort bloom team
3:57 Nahida skillissue 😂
Aggravate teams now are replaced with Quickbloom teams , it's more logical to replace fischl and not Nahida if you take a good look, Two dendro's is much better nowadays because of Baizhu + Furina.
How would c6 Baizhu fare for a Nilou team?
insane particularly if combined with other high constellation teammates
Sweet! Thank you, love your vids man, I dig the deep dives you do on characters.
I'm quite surprised at how conservative you were with Nahida's strength in bloom/hyperbloom teams... I'm not someone who believes in 'must-pulls', but truly Nahida (and Kazuha) I would say are must-pulls if you want to play teams that do majority dendro damage or PHEC damage, respectively. They just do so much that playing without them you really miss their presence in a way that cannot be replaced. So I do understand putting her one tier below, but at the same time Genshin gives enough pulls that Nahida is as close as there is to a must-pull character. I don't really like her in Aggravate teams for the exact reason you said (defensive utility), but I don't really consider aggravate to be a dendro team since it's not majority dendro damage. But it's probably just me since I don't have and won't get Zhongli. I do like burgeon Thoma, and Nahida is even less replaceable in burgeon since DMC, the other long-lasting off-field dendro option, will lose their burst if it comes into contact with Pyro. It's possible to play but a massive pain that's completely alleviated by just bringing Nahida instead. I've seen some fun Alhaitham burgeon teams so he supplies the dendro on-field, but I don't have him and it seems Nahida is his best partner in his best teams anyway. It all comes back to her 😂
Nahida being a “must pull”doesn’t really make sense imo. You could just disregard dendro completely and nahida will have very little value.
Characters like Yelan,Furina, and Kazuha are really the only 5 stars that slot in most team archetypes.
@@thelegendarytrickster yeah I completely agree that if you're not interested in dendro teams then Nahida isn't important. But if you do want to play dendro teams, then Nahida becomes basically a must-pull. I do also have Yelan and Furina, and I don't think these two are on the same level as Kazuha/Nahida.
@@thelegendarytrickster Yeah of course, but the argument is that if u want to play dendro teams Nahida is almost a must pull.
@@thelegendarytrickster I'd even disagree with your three listed, Furina is possibly the most universal, Kazuha was before Dendro but he's dropped off somewhat and units like Chevreuse further that, Yelan is nowhere near a must pull in any team, outside of maybe Hu Tao double hydro(even then, plenty of good alternatives exist) there's basically no team where she's necessary to actually function and she's at most a nice to have unit.
Like sure you can disregard Dendro entirely but that's ignoring a pretty huge chunk of the roster and some of the more interesting elemental reactions in the game, but for anyone who is interested in ever using Dendro Nahida's value isn't necessarily must pull, but it's massively apparent if you ever try and play a team with her vs without(outside of Keqing aggravate).
@@Sam-up4ul eh idk if I’d agree about your Kazuha point. Pretty much every non dendro/physical/geo dps is buffed by having Kazuha on the team. Chevy is really the first time where he’s significantly outshined by another option. But you still have to give up stuff like CC which a lot of people rely on.
I don’t really think disregarding dendro ignores a huge chunk of the roster. Most of the cast is fine outside of dendro except the dendro characters themselves(except Nilou)
As for yelan, I just listed her because she’s kinda just a universal buff to dps characters while also having good personal. So there’s not a ton of situations where subbing another hydro is better.
So I wouldn’t say any of them are must pulls, but they are closest thing to it imo
You don't need C4 for Kirara in quicken.
Thanks I noticed the editing mistake! Was supposed to say “especially if you have her c4” yes you don’t need it.
I think her Tri-Karma does too much damage to even consider the other options. Too many of the alternatives only are good for their application or defensive utility and do trash damage. We are SORELY lacking another dendro sub-dps with decent application.
Nahida is the most perfect character
She has no skill issue
Her off field application dies with the enemy, which is pretty annoying for someone designed like Cyno or Childe for example that don't like switching out once they ult and kill everything in 3 seconds. That and the running mechanic for lolis are her flaws imo.
@@rafael_lana bruh that was a play on words
Skill issue = incompetency
Skill issue also mean = problem with her e
Hi, nice video...regarding "burning", while nahida isnt that great for melt ganyu, she is absolutely necessary for "pure" burning teams like air fryer, as she is the only dendro in the game that can keep up with the dendro needs.
if anyone wants to get Nahida just do it she's irreplaceable and the best dendro character
I will feel less bad if i lose my 50/50 now.
I'm just not convinced kazuha + another dendro char is going to better than nahida + zhongli in aggravate 🤷♂️
Kazuha+Dendro - 40% res shred, 30% elemental damage bonus, only slightly lower personal dps but higher team dps than Nahida, also drives more Fischl A4 triggers. Most Dendro utility characters offer something else nice to the team, in the case of Kirara it's a solid chunk of burst damage + interruption resistance, easy procs on fav due to multi-hit + fast animations.
Nahi+ZL - Nahi offers ok damage and a decent amount of EM share, super annoying in multi-wave content and no grouping for great drivers like Keqing, ZL offers 20% res shred and interruption resistance, harder to proc fav weapons, his damage is non-existent.
Aggravate simply scales better with crit and res shred than it does with EM, so Nahida loses a -lot- of value in those teams compared to the alternatives and her buffs fail to keep pace with those other units can give, especially as ZL is simply there for comfort and offers very little compared to the alternatives.
@@Sam-up4ul Kazuha's personal dps is also straight up higher if there's more than one enemy.
@@YaeElectroCeiling Oh absolutely, though I'd say it evens out a little if you're playing Yaeggravate.
I feel like you should've seperated spread & aggravate comps cuz she's not good in aggravate & makes electro swirling cringe asf & almost no defensive utility, but for spread carries she's very good cuz you can't swirl dendro, & she's the best dendro battery & you usually run kuki for the defensive slot.
11:15 you want to keep a dendro aura on the enemy for obvious reasons. Baizhu is not enough
Not only that. Cyno is probably THE character that benefits from her burst the most. He triggers aggravate, has direct em scaling and triggers hyperbloom
Having nahida in those teams is VERY important
I never use Nahida on combat events especially with multi wave enemies. I prefer using DMC, Baizhu, even Collei. I dislike swapping to her just to apply Dendro. Just plop DMC burst then swap to Yae and Raiden.
I dont understand why you introduced her skill as such a big problem, yea you have to switch on her and refresh her skill when enemies die,, i dont see a problem here. I never saw it as a problem since its so easy, literally.
Its better than for example traveler, if enemies die and they dont spawn in his ult its rip for his ult application, however nahida just marks them and u can go on another char. Like shes just better in especially bloom than any other.
It's a problem with a relatively easy to execute solution, like how units can have an energy problem that is solved by building lots of ER.
In this case the solution to swap in is not necessarily optimal for all teams. Some teams are very friendly with loose rotations, which he covered in the video.
However, doing so when there is no extra room in the rotation means extended rotation --> DPS loss.
Worse scenario, you have characters like Cyno that need continuous field time, in which case you CAN'T swap in without breaking your setup.
Appreciate this breakdown and looking at alternative options.
I can't bring myself to play with the chibi characters, they weird me out so hard, and it's been a big damper on feeling able to play any Dendro based teams given that very often I hear "well if you don't have Nahida, use YaoYao" and I'm like "this isn't better..."
Kinda regretting not pulling Baizhu, but I'm going to keep trucking along with my cat-box Aggravate team xD
Baizhu or Alhaitham are the way to go for Nahida-less dendro. Baizhu for aggravate. Baizhu+Alhaitham for spread, bloom, or hyperbloom.
I feel like Nahida's burst should automatically apply her mark on every single enemy inside. This solves the multiwave issue and actually gives players an incentive to build ER and keep uptime on the burst. But Genshin will never buff characters so whatevs i guess.
Without that character flaw she would basically have 0 weaknesses and too unbalanced. I think it was intentionally designed to be her issue 😮
Kinda let down u didn’t elaborate the value of her C2. But ig it technically wasn’t relevant to the topic of the video.
Pull Nahida cuz she's meta? Nah
Pull Nahida cuz she's a precious little bean and must be protected? YES!!!
Cyno with chev 😅
FIRST
So.. Nahida has a Skill Issue 😅
I skipped her first banner and had to pull on her rerun cuz it was so bad as a dendro enjoyer...
Lmao. I've been using Alhaitham/Nilou/EM Xq/Baizhu for a while now because driving with the potatoes doesn't feel good to me and my Kaveh still isn't C6.
I didn't even try to think about the mathematical implications, it just clicked. I'm glad to know there was some merit to that choice.
The only drawback is that if you somehow fail to fuel Baizhu's burst, Alhaitham will literally kill himself in seconds. So I had to run Baizhu with 240ER just to be sure.
$39M - That’s a lot of coinage.
The lack of healing, no value of burst in bloom teams, and her skill disappearing when enemies die really kill Nahida for me. I prefer using Baizhu or Yaoyao in Quicken, and bloom variants really don't care which unit(s) are being used as long as they are Hydro and Dendro. At least in those the other units can help keep Nahida alive.
I also despise how her skill stops functioning when no new reactions are triggered so in a Burning team she often just doesn't do anything because the enemy already has a pyro aura on them, as she'd need to apply Dendro for that but doesn't until someone else does lol (same issue with triple Hydro bloom teams, Nahida stops applying Dendro after the Hydro aura takes over which makes her unplayable as an offfielder)
Second