'Space Station 13': Behind One of the Largest Open Source Games
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- In this 2022 Open Source Game Development Summit, Nathan Riemer (a maintainer and designer for the largest SS13 fork) reveals how open source development shapes the design and production processes of a game and describes unique challenges that don't occur in closed source development.
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As somebody that's contributed and been a member of this game's community for like 10 years, it's unreal to see it on GDC. It makes me so happy.
Controbutod
@@toooes Pain
oh hey keek, been a while
@@rougenarwhal8378 :)
@@rougenarwhal8378 What's your discord?
Great talk mothblocks. This is a great overview of the overall SS13 developer community and how we've evolved as such a unique game. Thanks for taking the time to present this, glad it's finally up!
That's the guy that removed nanites! Get em!
*spin *flip *Clap Good game. Also an amazing presentation from Mothblocks! :)
This is an awesome presentation, I love that this game is getting more attention (it deserves it), I love all the different possibilities and branches of the game, overall I LOVE THIS GAME! As a civ13 moderator I would highly encourage you to come hang out on our branch of the game, we are constantly trying to add things even tho we have a vastly smaller amount of contributors, are branch is really unique in that it is based around real life, so if you want a real survival/civilization building experience but in ss13 we are the server for you.
Gotta say, Nathan has done an incredible job with this presentation. The slides are great and it was very interesting to listen! He needs to do more talks!
An open source space station game?! Must download now
This game will cause you endless years of addiction and suffering. Run while you can, or join us and never touch grass again
this game has a steep learning curve. make sure you read the rules of the server you join, have a guide handy, and have fun.
14 years of non-stop playing... please... god help us
ONE OF US, ONE OF US
@@rougenarwhal8378 Gooble Gobble
Woah.. it's weird to see SS13 get mainstream attention. I haven't touched /tg/ in years, so a lot of this is pretty cool. I make a lot of content, help code and create videos on a couple niche/closed access servers.
I play on the CM-SS13 server, which is typically the single most popular SS13 server, by online player counts. It's very different from the other more normal SS13 servers, as its a total overhaul into a sort of military sim, where you're on a mission to hunt down and destroy an alien infestation). Just the fact you can have 200 people online simultaneously, playing an asymmetrical pvp shooter, with roleplaying, an overarching plot for the round, and real consequences for your actions (i.e.: permanent death and being out of the rest of the round for potentially 3-4 hours and/or individual impact on how the round goes), is just an amazing feeling.
People have spent literal years designing so many in depth systems on just this one server. Dozens of different guns, with attachments that meaningfully change the way they shoot. Couple dozen different classes/roles/jobs that are in depth and complex, with real impacts on the round (rifleman, specialist, medic, engineer, smartgunner, staff officers, military police, androids, doctors (and separate nurses!), a complex medical system which really immerses people that are playing medics/nurses/doctors/chemists, drop ship pilots and APC drivers, it goes on and on). You can be on the battlefield, just shooting your gun, and you're supported by a mortar team, orbital artillery, close air support, an APC, and a tank. Meanwhile, the enemy team is just completely different from your team, a much smaller group of alien creatures with their own completely different roles and gameplay, and yet its still all fairly well balanced with win rates between the two.
Yea, the game is graphically very simple, but its sooooo much more in depth that the triple A shooters like CoD or Battlefield. Really just an amazing game.
I’ve considered playing a CM server maybe I’ll give it a try
By "fairly well balanced win rates", I presume you mean "swinging wildly in alternate sides favor with every major patch". Ok, I'm half joking, but I wouldn't exactly call it "balanced", just that the skill of the team members has a much larger impact than mechanics on the win rate. No new god-gun is gonna save tha muhrines when delta sprints to their deaths in the caves and bravo can't hold down the lz.
Shame they destroyed all the depth and made it PFC simulator. Its literaly just shitty csgo except the terrorists are aliens and the lag is way worse. I know i sound like one of those pretentious assholes but come on, just the medical system got gutted. A single doctor can run the whole medbay because you can treat basically everything as a medic aside from fracs (splints mostly solve those), organ damage (just use peridaxon and youll live) and larva infection (this one you do need a doctor for)
I don't wanna be that guy but I thought they got rid of both the APC and the tank, and CM doesn't have CAS.
@@calyxman This would have to have been a really recent development, because the wiki doesn't give any indication that the APC, tank, or the dropship's cas abilities have been removed.
I love this game so much, and it’s interesting playermade changes are part of why, it’s never the exact same game and I love it
What i like the most about this model is that even people with 0 coding skill can contribute, if their ideas are interesting enough and they talk with the community, someone might pick up on their idea and form it into a workable concept. A lot of things start in casual conversation between players with the typical "what if" and it leads to many things that are now staples of the game.
It's more of there's a billion of ideas guys and the same few coders change minor things lol
THE GDC TIDE SHALL BEGIN.
at least they'll be talking about forks and repos instead of obscure hentai
I play and contribute to TGMC, or TerraGov Marine Corps. This server is one of the great examples of how players can contribute to the game.
Many of my footages in my TH-cam channel are from me playing TGMC, but the videos serve more than entertainment. It is one of the feedback systems that contributors use to gauge what is needed to change or add to TGMC. I even use my TH-cam channel to demonstrate what I have contributed for TGMC (resprite of acid rain for one). Due to the fact that Space Station 13's development is ephemeral, some players don't know mechanics, so I put in time to making tutorials for anyone that need them including veteran players!
The interpersonal dynamics of TGMC developement is interesting to say the least, but alas I don't have time to type it all out.
Come play TerraGov Marine Corps! We will teach you how to not die and shoot xenomorphs!
decepicunt gang
@@windman6913 Decepicunt gang forever
Hi Elsa
@@windman6913 fr on god. decepticunts rule PS: Fire tribe 2 when
I adore this game. Best true roleplay experience out there
The funniest part of this entire thing is the fact Mothblocks was representing /TG/, the thumbnail is for Goon
When I heard Space Station 13. I saw it together with Sseth's review video.
This game sounds so fun on paper, but the learning curve is so steep. Pretty sure I tried to play it once and had absolutely no idea what was going on.
A bit like dwarf fortress. I'd love to get into them because I think I'd really enjoy them once I know what's going on. It's just getting to that part is pretty rough.
There's a lot of good guides now, and their wikis are usually amazing. But I couldn't have learned without a 2nd monitor.
Yeah, it's a game that necessitates a second monitor or quick tab out for the wiki, but once you get the job down pat, it's not bad
Honestly, learning was the most fun part for me. Constantly learning how to do new things and get better at jobs/at the game in general.
Depending on the station you are playing there's a lot of good tutorials on TH-cam and the wikis are pretty good, also learning stuff is pretty much the best part of the game, if you pick a job that's not THAT demanding like a Janitor or just Assistent you can learn the basics while not having people dying on your hands as a Medic that doesn't know how the mender works
learn it once and you'll never forget
i love ss13
Love ya vid man robust af
@@empt555 cheers mate
This is so interesting! Great talk! I've played a few open-source games, but nothing with remotely this level of contribution.
It's not mentioned in the talk, but a big part of why it gets so many contributors is that BYOND (the engine that the game runs on) was originally made to be a beginner tool to develop multiplayer games. The language that the game is written in is relatively simple which allows new contributors and people who have never worked with code but comes at the cost of being very much imperfect compared to an actual programming language in terms of sanity, performance, etc.
have u tried cataclysm dark days ahead?, it's also an open source game
The fact that this game is now leaking out into the real world is terrifying.
And it is REALLY wild to see developers I've personally worked with show up in a video that has 20k+ views....
@@DingleFlop 20k is not much even for ss13 standards
Private servers will always be a thing. There are dozens of servers you can't find on the hub with over 90-100 players. SS13 has become semi-mainstream for a while now.
@@atomic_bomba how are they called?
@@thegameranch5935 If you're asking how to access them, you need to know someone who is already in. Gatekeeping is a filter for quality control.
damn you mothblocks!!1 i was having a really good time with those nanites! ( o益o)ᕤ
TG Dev Moment
ss13 is my favorite game of all time, please do not play it, we had a popular content creator a few years ago put it on blast and we had to lock down servers for a month until the tide passed
You really gonna do us like that Moth, not even a mention?
Rather proud to say I've contributed to both TGMC and /tg/station and I still am.
Been playing this game for years and I'm glad its getting some attention! We have such an amazing and diverse community, and the game only gets better with age :)
Quite proud to say I contributed some of the ambience/music to this game :)
I've played this on and off for over a decade, I'd love to see a talk just purely about emergent gameplay - SS13's most incredible feature.
It's funny cos the game looks pretty hideous graphically, but more than anything else this game has moments rolling with laughter, or absolutely on knife-edge tension with heart pounding.
Not to say that's the moment-to-moment experience, but the highs are something else. Just a masterful combination of multiplayer and emergent gameplay.
As someone whos joined in on SS13 on the Ssethtide, I'm glad to see more recognition for it.
This is a real fully functional metaverse - why it is not all the hype and in the news? :) Looks like well organized and truly decentralized project!
DO NOT PLAY THIS VIDEO GAME, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED GLOWIES AHEAD.
^
Glowies are policing the game?
What is a glowie?
Excellent presentation and content. Did us proud!
super nice to see niche stuff getting talks like this
Great talk!
S S E T H T I D E W O R L D W I D E
So glad this one came in!
20:00 "Ah, the renowned legislator that ruined Command's day by making Nanotrasen pass that Carp-infested anti-nanite law!"
26:16 SO FAST
1:16 pros and cons coders get angy if you out game them by any means they try to nerf it and if they cant nerf it they remove it or replace it with something shty.
CMSS13 GANG REPRESENT!!!
I will rp as a mortar pit crewmen with no armour and a rolled down jumpsuit for maximum aesthetic.
holy shit its the internet janitor
What a game :)
Cease posting, we already have enough proles in the hub
With the game asset discussion. Iconshare and Icon Bay were the classic place to go for sprites in byond. Though the majority of ss13 servers dont use it!
Those sprites aren't often under correct or usable licenses.
as a relative newcomer to this game (started last year bc a friend convinced me to play it) this was veri cool
IS this the guy that did the Wallening?
I never heard of this game but it is wow
Very nicely delivered presentation.
Obligatory engagement comment. I can't stop loving the silly spacemans game
I didn't imagine MB to sound like this
Really?
Why were you thinking about other man you have never seen voice
Ha, this is a very inspiring talk for me to finish my damn contributions
HONK!11!!
mothblocks is cool
Is it true /tg/ has a lot of drama? Im new to ss13
The admins have significantly more drama than the codebase. If you stick to the github, it will be pretty civil. The discord can get more hostile. At least that's the way it was back when I was still active in the community.
Disregard the last comment, the most drama there is some nerf to something popular and the community trowing a hissyfit, and the ocasional DDoS'er. Other than that its pretty drama free compared to other codebases, like fulpstation.
The drama around even the most controversial code changes has been nothing compared to the drama around Nervere. I am a retired maintainer, I've seen the admin channels from the inside. Frankly the bile you sometimes encounter there is disgusting. The hissyfits on reddit about cobbychem were a treat compared to that shit.
As long as you stay clear of the discord you won't see any of that though. Also fulp is not exactly the highest of bars, one may even call it the lowest.
spessman gaming
So true mothblocks
Pog!
Cool.
gamer moment
nice things :)
Well that's unexpected.
How about fixing some known bugs, that have been in the game for years, instead of another tasteless resprite, or making belts bulky for no reason? Thanks TG, very cool.
Belts, syringe guns, combat system... it's not even the same game anymore. Nobody asked these people to rework the game (to benefit their favorite players to the exclusion of everyone else).
the codebase is free to contribute to you can fix your hated bugs :)
@@fikou_ First of all, i'm not a programmer, and not qualified to fixing bugs in a old ass game that runs on even older of an ass engine, that is barely breathing, but somehow manages to host a game better, than most of triple A garbage on the market today. Second of all, even if I was a programmer, who was willing to put time and effort to fixing those bugs for free, fixing them wouldn't change the bigger problem, wich would be """""""fixes"""""""", that fix all the fun out of the game. All the time I see those changes, makes me think that if it keeps up, everyone will be sitting in their department, jerking off mechanics, and having no player-player interactions at all, because there are no longer fun interactions betwen them possible, apart from just speaking (And I can go to discord if I want to just chit-chat).
@@grayrabbit6512 maybe you should play a different game if you are so bothered about it
@@loudnoises8197 Most retardet take possible. "Just don't play looooooool". The reason I play the game is cuz it's good and i like it, but the more I play the more I am annoyed about the constant and absolutly devastating changes, that nobody asked for. The game is still good even with these changes, is simply becomes worse with time because of people, that make changes for it without bothering to actually play it.
Time to disregard the licence entirely and make a closed source server just for the memes.
D2, Lifeweb, Scorcher, Mojave Sun, Ashen Sky, Concordia March, Sceptic Shock, Neekothing, Interstation, IS12 Reborn, Leben, Escalation, -- all closed source servers with restricted access. I could probably name a dozen more. All of these are pretty heavy on gatekeeping to contain the quality/atmosphere of the enviornment, each with their own unique sprites, code, and whatever else you can imagine.
One of the weirdest things about closed-access servers is that pretty much all of them, minding a couple, use code and assets from other servers. For example, almost every server on the hub has an ancient feature from an old repo' by the name of D2, where if you target the mouth and click your character on help intent with a pack of smokes in hand, you'll put a cigarette in your mouth. Plenty of other things like that.
@@atomic_bomba
1. It's called Septic Shock, it got renamed to Concordia, and it's open source. Same with Mojave.
2. People steal code from each other, that's literally coding in a nutshell.
3. Can't say for every server listed, but a lot of these use Luna Bay as a base, which TL:DR you can keep closed source and it's technically legal.
@@masteroflame6141 All of the bobstation servers get re-named and rebranded at least twice a year so I don't really bother to catch up. I'm quite aware that a lot of these are based on old luna (even lifeweb is) -- but the "illegal" nature of that is rarely ever dealt with since you generally can't access their repositories.
@@atomic_bomba man i miss leben
@@swanswanswanswanswanswanswan 7 month reply, least ret4rded ss13 player
♥
Anyone remember that time they added ability to shit in the game? Yeah ...
So how about that singularity re-addition
alright guys, the grey tide is incoming.
prepare for the worst
gaming
Ironic how he also killed few years later lmao
me like
Well if the engine isn't open source then it's not quite open source now is it. I like the "design" system you have going on and are lucky to have a community to go along with it. Wouldn't it be great if that's how most open source projects worked out.
To be fair, that's a little bit like saying a piece of software isn't open source if the Windows OS libraries it has to interact with aren't open source.
We are trying to recode the engine, client, server, and runtime from scratch!
@@ZeWaka i think we both know even if any of the recodes work they wont get as much popularity as the original :/
@@Mooballoono Really disagree with you there - if OpenDream is finished, we'd be able to get all of the popular servers to migrate.
@@Mooballoono SS14 is actually doing pretty decently so far, it's got a community roughly the size of your average SS13 server
While speaking and script were really interesting, the presentation is really bland and boring
But like overall good job mothblocks for covering good amount of stuff in such short time that you had to present
we like moffblocks
Most of the video is just mothblocks rambling about backlash over circuits removal.
Hope your 'deadline' was worth killing the game.
uggy
Heretic!
Yuck, at least goon looks good...
Heretic! And not even the cool kind!
Been playing goon since D2 was forked. Their artstyle sucks and always has sucked.
@@atomic_bomba HOW? Its the most good looking server which is available on the hub
@@thegameranch5935 The graphics are childish and "squishy", so to speak. Compared to the rest of SS13, it feels like something you'd find in a children's game made for the Wii. Not to mention they've made everything 3/4ths compliant which is bound to look terrible in a top down game. (the only good examples of this being done are in Darkwood)
And as a personal gripe, the palette is an eyesore compared to contemporary SS13 and looks pretty scuffed. Goon has always looked "weird", you can ask any OG ss13 player and they'll know what I mean.
Also, hub servers suck.
honk *spin *flip *clap
nice things :)