I enjoy how practical this talk is. He provides a wide range of lessons and examples, and he's constantly introducing new ideas. I'll probably refer back to this from time to time.
I love how matter of fact and clear this talk was. None of the ideas were too nebulous and Aubrey was clearly aware of any exceptions to the concepts he was introducing. This made it very easy to understand when and where these concepts could be implemented. Everybody associated with Overgrowth is clearly amazing. Great talk.
Far cry 2 was made with this in mind, you make a plan to attack a camp then things go tits up and you have to deal with the fallout like the spreading fire.
I think its a good pacing to switch between open and closed play-areas. Even in an open world game, the dungeons/structures/special areas can be more linear. When done, the game can release the player back to the open world. Linear areas allow paced gameplay and special events that is not possible in open areas.
Excellent talk. I feel like this relates to Mario 64 and Sunshine's overlapping lanes leading to instanced objectives. Despite loading up the worldstate for objective A, you can often skip along architecture for objective B to sequence break your way to objective F. This style of play feels rewarding for players who want to see themselves as clever enough to circumvent the _intended_ challenge by undertaking _unintended_ challenges -- especially those relating to level familiarity and execution of the game's movement systems. I had been calling a particular variant of this, 'skatepark design,' when the player is able to enter or leave a level without committing to an instanced mission and there are prompts for movement tech peppered along each lane, as well as between lanes. The player is encouraged to vary their movement rather than holding forward on the stick. Jet Set Radio Future uses this to great effect, creating a nonlinear web of grind rails strung together by tricky jumps, and hiding optional characters as well as mandatory objectives in the same manner as Easter eggs. As the player completes objectives, more pieces of JSRF's open, yet radically nonlinear world are revealed, creating a balance between directionless openness and railroaded progress. The Easter egg hunt gives players a low-stakes sandbox to practice their movement tech, building the skills they'll need for high-stakes events like races and boss fights.
Always been interested in things like emergent/systemic gameplay and what kinds of my maps are designed to accommodate for that, this is by far one of, if not my favorite GDC talk.
That's exactly what I've been studying and trying to do with my non-linear single-player shooter. And I've noticed it's easier to make non-linear maps for stealth than for shooter. A-hem. The funny part is that I was studying Pac-Man before watching this video. Awesome perspective you gave us, Aubrey! Thanks!
I loved Darkest of Days and didn't know about the bad critical reception. Its definitely weird but that's part of the charm for me and I've played it multiple times. At the time it was quite unique too, I cant think of another shooter that had American Civil War themed levels from that era.
I mean it's all very well acting like you've got an understanding of formula, a much different thing to craft it for an overall audience. Barely anyone played Trackless either because it just doesn't seem all that interesting a take on the standard text adventure. And the less said about the Wolfire games he worked on, the better. I don't know how you can even talk about level design in Overgrowth. It's no better than somebody picking up Unity, making a game in 2 days by sticking objects in rooms and on various planes and calling it a day.
I tried to play Cyberpunk 2077 and I think the GTA-style open-world kinda ruined the roleplay aspect of the game because the world doesn't feel dense (NPCs on the street give generic dialogues). I think it would have been a better game if it was more like Deus EX HR (a Radically Non-Linear game)
There are a lot of identical people walking circuits around Night City, sitting at street food vendors, waiting for noodles, never eating anything. I feel sorry for all these hungry lonely clones.
@@dexterdextrow7248 they had big ambitions that are for sure but the final state of the game wasn't that great. I think it would have been better if the city was divided into several dense zones (unique NPCs,...) separated through loading screens and outside of the city there could have been an open world area with less density that you could be explored with your car
Cyberpunk is not a GTA style open world. Maybe they wanted to have that, but where not able to implement dynamic Systems like in GTA. Its basically a staged movie set that looks nice when not interacted with, but falls flat when the player roams around in it (as the NPCs and vehicles and police dont have the capacity to react in a complex manner). Ultimately its a nice looking backdrop to transit to new mission point, not a play area.
With regards to flight and climbing I've been pontificating about this for years ever since I heard past elderscrolls games had climbing and I always felt like it was missing from skyrim even without having played any previous titles. And here's what I've come up with. Certain targets don't exist until it's time for them to exist so you can't just fly to a base and kill the leader because you have to identify the leader somehow and like in hyrule warriors(and presumably dynasty warriors) you have to take out x amount of nameless soldiers before the top man appears or some other objective has been completed. in certain situations you might even be able to kill the king only to find out it's just a guy who looks like the king. Turrets, gun towers, antiaircraft missiles, EMPs, archers on the rooftops, a wizards tower. You soar up to a defensible structure they deploy their defenses simple cause and efect. You could even have a paraglider whose wings are potentially susceptible to broken glass raiding the top floor in a 100 story office building doesn't seam so easy if clipping your wings is a potential consequence. Whatever treasure you're looking for probably isn't hanging from the flagpole to begin with while you might be able to pick off a target during pee break or a transfer from one location to another I feel like more often the objective is going to involve breaking into a compound you may just have to recognize the roof isn't the most defensible position. I know a dictator with a pool on their roof is a really hard encoded image in the minds of action lovers everywhere but maybe after you let the player enjoy the reward of picking off a few easy targets that way, after awhile the game should adapt. Word got out within the villan community that alot of people were doing x when they died suddenly people don't do x as much. But yeah part of the fun of flight is the tactical advantage but any advantage should have drawbacks inherent to itself. Many games have a limited load out I feel like a paraglider is probably somewhat cumbersome. Maybe you'd rather stay back and pick enemies off with a sniper rifle.
For RavenField, the Island's upper most flag is near impossible assault. The enemy has a strangle hold and easy time controlling and assaulting the beach and mountain flags. The respawns during capture was insanely generous for defenders so it was near impossible to capture those flags. I didn't like the idea of not needing to balance things since the enemy team near either of the flags was oppressive.
So happy to see Tenchu isn't forgotten. Like the genius of Atic Atac just having a few possible alternatives to where NPCs or Items spawn makes for a very Live game each time the same level is played. Great practical considerations on more satisfying level design here, thanks for presenting this talk.
Battle Arenas are a single player shooter's immersion killer. Killed Doom gameplay and level enjoyment since 2016 for me. It turned the franchise into a casual game.
Didnt shadow of mordor fix the problems that ovwrgrowth had? You can climb on any wall yes. But it dosent break the game you might just climb into more danger and the enemy stronger by dying.
Sec 1 non linear map? Ms pac man if map is endless? Never eat all palettes Power pellet is unlimited resource Similarity to myltiplayer competitive map (play w bots) Had abother gsmeplay constraints: 1 symmetric balance 2 lag yolerabce (over network) 3 Limited physics (understand it) Mda theory Any game categorized by these qualities This lebels has niches: 1.Mechanics 2.Aesthetics 3.Dynamics Ms oav man 1982 Doom Linear Level secrions by non linear arenas 2 gamplay loop goals 1.constant mkve 2.in-navigation improvasation
25:57 i think u dont need 2 limit the player character, u can let the player limit their own character make them feel uncomfortable doing certain actions, if they can climb a wall 2 bypass something put a guy w a gun there, maybe even tell the player in a tooltip that ur more vulnerable 2 attacks while ur climbing, & if that sticks in the players head theyll deal w the shooter b4 climbing the wall, or if they feel pressed like they HAVE 2 climb the wall, having that tension will give them a nice little stressful moment that is immediately gratifying getting out of danger, but also mentally activating bc they have 2 asses a whole new 180 degrees of potential threat in front of them now a large part of the appeal 4 speedruns from the average gamers perspective is 'wow, i didnt know u could *just do that* -- damage boosting is a classic example, its not that players cant think 2 do it, its just not something they *want* 2 do so put stressors that lead a player 2 limit their own character, as apposed 2 limiting their character 4 them
unrelated but take all those binding of Isaac clones. Isn't Isaac pretty linear? I never played it but did play some of the clones. you pick a path but if you don't know what's on the other side you have to go with your gut or something. The same thing can be found in Enter the Gungeon except this time you have those linear transitions into the open rooms. One problem I have with these kinds of games is the backtracking. Sure fast travel is a solution but if you self challenge yourself not to use fast travel then it'd be a waste of time. My solution is to make backtracking part of the combat. Not like a breather. When you go into the next room you have 2 rooms to battle in. one is full of enemies and the other is empty. If there are no enemies it feels like you made progress. You can backtrack into familiar territory and let the enemies run into traps you laid out. I'm no game designer. just a videogame enthusiast. What i do to come up with game ideas that are fun is to make em replayable. One thing I find fun in some games is being able to do more than one thing. Like being a tank and a healer. and so for this level it is also more than one thing. You setup your defenses before going into the first battle, go into the first battle and beat it, and then keep those defenses and make more. Even if placed defenses don't reach the enemy it still is useful in the next room incase it does reach them.
I don't think his presentation skill is horrible. But what I don't understand is why he is constantly looking to his left. I hope his audience was sitting in front of him
probably hasn't been able to have much public speaking practice so he opted for a script to cram as much information as possible into his presentation. no need to rag on him, he's a professional sharing great info for free
If you are making maps where you are proud that you can't predict what the player will do, the map will be boring and uninteresting. That's because it's exactly what you aren't doing or talking about. A good designer will always know what paths will be taken and how players will interact, because that's how you make things interesting.
Sorry to burst your bubble, bud, but most such talks/presentations are in fact essays/scripts. However, those without much practice in public speaking won't be able to relay the info as succintly and would run out of time. GDC talks are under various time constraints and if you lack the expertise to naturally present your talk, you'll end up doing a poor job. The whole point is to transfer an idea(s) or lessons to an audience than to be a casual talker.
Weird that he almost exclusively talked about first-person shooters and ignored the obvious examples within other genres, like levels from Mario 64 or Odyssey.
I enjoy how practical this talk is. He provides a wide range of lessons and examples, and he's constantly introducing new ideas. I'll probably refer back to this from time to time.
When you use level design and pacing to plan your talk
I love how matter of fact and clear this talk was. None of the ideas were too nebulous and Aubrey was clearly aware of any exceptions to the concepts he was introducing. This made it very easy to understand when and where these concepts could be implemented. Everybody associated with Overgrowth is clearly amazing. Great talk.
Step 7: create tension in the player by constantly looking to stage right, as if something threatening is waiting there.
😄
fucking died
Theres probably either a clock/timer, a control monitor or both there. Very threatening indeed.
I can’t unsee it
😂😂😂
This is one of the most practical and clear GDC talks I've seen. He did an excellent job.
"Isn't it fun to scout around, come up with a plan, and test it?" THIS is my favorite thing to do in games. Observe, plan, execute.
Far cry 2 was made with this in mind, you make a plan to attack a camp then things go tits up and you have to deal with the fallout like the spreading fire.
and stratagy games aare esentially based on this, you gather info make a plan and see what happens.
Far Cry 2 is high on my list of games to play next. I've heard great things and it seems like a shame that FC3 was the one that took off.
@ashy I got to play FC 2 recently and it was fun but very outdated
I think its a good pacing to switch between open and closed play-areas. Even in an open world game, the dungeons/structures/special areas can be more linear. When done, the game can release the player back to the open world. Linear areas allow paced gameplay and special events that is not possible in open areas.
Excellent talk. I feel like this relates to Mario 64 and Sunshine's overlapping lanes leading to instanced objectives. Despite loading up the worldstate for objective A, you can often skip along architecture for objective B to sequence break your way to objective F. This style of play feels rewarding for players who want to see themselves as clever enough to circumvent the _intended_ challenge by undertaking _unintended_ challenges -- especially those relating to level familiarity and execution of the game's movement systems.
I had been calling a particular variant of this, 'skatepark design,' when the player is able to enter or leave a level without committing to an instanced mission and there are prompts for movement tech peppered along each lane, as well as between lanes. The player is encouraged to vary their movement rather than holding forward on the stick. Jet Set Radio Future uses this to great effect, creating a nonlinear web of grind rails strung together by tricky jumps, and hiding optional characters as well as mandatory objectives in the same manner as Easter eggs. As the player completes objectives, more pieces of JSRF's open, yet radically nonlinear world are revealed, creating a balance between directionless openness and railroaded progress. The Easter egg hunt gives players a low-stakes sandbox to practice their movement tech, building the skills they'll need for high-stakes events like races and boss fights.
Excellent talk, directly applicable to production whilst still being general enough for a wide range of contexts. Merci
One of the best talks I ever seen. Thank you for your knowledge Aubrey!
thank god a level design talk that is actually practically useful
this is a spectacular talk. Very clear, very concise -- inspiring
I loved how whenever he mentioned a game he worked on I was like "Oh I loved the level design in XYZ!", really shows how talented this guy is
Overgrown is awesome. Love the combat and physics.
I read on the different behaviors of the ghosts some 30 years after having last played the game and my mind was blown.
Very practical and to the point, thanks for the insight!
Always been interested in things like emergent/systemic gameplay and what kinds of my maps are designed to accommodate for that, this is by far one of, if not my favorite GDC talk.
That's exactly what I've been studying and trying to do with my non-linear single-player shooter. And I've noticed it's easier to make non-linear maps for stealth than for shooter. A-hem. The funny part is that I was studying Pac-Man before watching this video.
Awesome perspective you gave us, Aubrey! Thanks!
Really great talk, lovely to listen to :)
I loved Darkest of Days and didn't know about the bad critical reception. Its definitely weird but that's part of the charm for me and I've played it multiple times. At the time it was quite unique too, I cant think of another shooter that had American Civil War themed levels from that era.
It'd be great if I could actually play it. Only played the demo when it came out and now it's a pain to get it going on modern PCs.
I mean it's all very well acting like you've got an understanding of formula, a much different thing to craft it for an overall audience. Barely anyone played Trackless either because it just doesn't seem all that interesting a take on the standard text adventure. And the less said about the Wolfire games he worked on, the better. I don't know how you can even talk about level design in Overgrowth. It's no better than somebody picking up Unity, making a game in 2 days by sticking objects in rooms and on various planes and calling it a day.
Excellent talk!
this was /incredibly/ helpful for a procedurally generated exploration game I've been brainstorming lately, thank you so much!!!
procedurally generated exploration? sign me up, it's what I keep thinking about in the shower! where can I learn more about your game and ideas?
extremely useful talk!
This is great Information!
Ravenfield and Receiver - definitely some interesting level design there. Good talk all around.
oh wow im feeling nostalgia for the wolfire devlogs i watched like 12 years ago
thank you very much sir, its been a pleasure
I tried to play Cyberpunk 2077 and I think the GTA-style open-world kinda ruined the roleplay aspect of the game because the world doesn't feel dense (NPCs on the street give generic dialogues). I think it would have been a better game if it was more like Deus EX HR (a Radically Non-Linear game)
There are a lot of identical people walking circuits around Night City, sitting at street food vendors, waiting for noodles, never eating anything.
I feel sorry for all these hungry lonely clones.
@@dexterdextrow7248
they had big ambitions that are for sure but the final state of the game wasn't that great.
I think it would have been better if the city was divided into several dense zones (unique NPCs,...) separated through loading screens and outside of the city there could have been an open world area with less density that you could be explored with your car
@@dexterdextrow7248
i agree. They could have made the GTA-style open-world Cyberpunk game with the sequel when the technology was there
Cyberpunk is not a GTA style open world. Maybe they wanted to have that, but where not able to implement dynamic Systems like in GTA. Its basically a staged movie set that looks nice when not interacted with, but falls flat when the player roams around in it (as the NPCs and vehicles and police dont have the capacity to react in a complex manner). Ultimately its a nice looking backdrop to transit to new mission point, not a play area.
@@vast634
Cyberpunk has similarities with GTA (big city, you can use your car to travel through it) but GTA is better as an open-world game
With regards to flight and climbing I've been pontificating about this for years ever since I heard past elderscrolls games had climbing and I always felt like it was missing from skyrim even without having played any previous titles.
And here's what I've come up with.
Certain targets don't exist until it's time for them to exist so you can't just fly to a base and kill the leader because you have to identify the leader somehow and like in hyrule warriors(and presumably dynasty warriors) you have to take out x amount of nameless soldiers before the top man appears or some other objective has been completed. in certain situations you might even be able to kill the king only to find out it's just a guy who looks like the king.
Turrets, gun towers, antiaircraft missiles, EMPs, archers on the rooftops, a wizards tower. You soar up to a defensible structure they deploy their defenses simple cause and efect. You could even have a paraglider whose wings are potentially susceptible to broken glass raiding the top floor in a 100 story office building doesn't seam so easy if clipping your wings is a potential consequence.
Whatever treasure you're looking for probably isn't hanging from the flagpole to begin with while you might be able to pick off a target during pee break or a transfer from one location to another I feel like more often the objective is going to involve breaking into a compound you may just have to recognize the roof isn't the most defensible position. I know a dictator with a pool on their roof is a really hard encoded image in the minds of action lovers everywhere but maybe after you let the player enjoy the reward of picking off a few easy targets that way, after awhile the game should adapt. Word got out within the villan community that alot of people were doing x when they died suddenly people don't do x as much.
But yeah part of the fun of flight is the tactical advantage but any advantage should have drawbacks inherent to itself. Many games have a limited load out I feel like a paraglider is probably somewhat cumbersome. Maybe you'd rather stay back and pick enemies off with a sniper rifle.
For RavenField, the Island's upper most flag is near impossible assault. The enemy has a strangle hold and easy time controlling and assaulting the beach and mountain flags.
The respawns during capture was insanely generous for defenders so it was near impossible to capture those flags.
I didn't like the idea of not needing to balance things since the enemy team near either of the flags was oppressive.
Incredibly useful level design tips ❤
I'd love to hear the talk about level design in Thief that he referenced
3:52 is that Milk? From a carton? With a screwtop cap???
9:25 it's been answered!!!
This is probably the first time I've seen Battlezone 98 mentioned in a long, long time. Wish there were more games like it.
So happy to see Tenchu isn't forgotten. Like the genius of Atic Atac just having a few possible alternatives to where NPCs or Items spawn makes for a very Live game each time the same level is played.
Great practical considerations on more satisfying level design here, thanks for presenting this talk.
Did my mans bring a little carton of milk to his GDC talk
It's just water.
For me as a player, Darkest of Days was a really good game. Respect
Love this talk, thank you
Astonishing
Great talk.
@2:05 omg Battlezone!
Battle Arenas are a single player shooter's immersion killer. Killed Doom gameplay and level enjoyment since 2016 for me. It turned the franchise into a casual game.
Didnt shadow of mordor fix the problems that ovwrgrowth had? You can climb on any wall yes. But it dosent break the game you might just climb into more danger and the enemy stronger by dying.
10:00 just gonna leave this here for future reference
Receiver is baller. I love the storey...
if your programmer creates better levels than your artist it's time to find a level designer.
A+
Yes, I'm watching a video from *2019,* by a channel called *"GDC 2025",* in the year *2024.*
9:30
thought people were overhyping the presentation. that's not true at all
Genshin Impact and Shadow of Mordor are great examples of this.
Genshin is open world and those one path linear dungeons. Not radically non-linear levels, imho.
Nice
Sec 1 non linear map?
Ms pac man if map is endless?
Never eat all palettes
Power pellet is unlimited resource
Similarity to myltiplayer competitive map (play w bots)
Had abother gsmeplay constraints:
1 symmetric balance
2 lag yolerabce (over network)
3 Limited physics (understand it)
Mda theory
Any game categorized by these qualities
This lebels has niches:
1.Mechanics
2.Aesthetics
3.Dynamics
Ms oav man 1982
Doom
Linear Level secrions by non linear arenas
2 gamplay loop goals
1.constant mkve
2.in-navigation improvasation
This is hilarious 😂
Yee
Me: What is radically non-linear level design?
Guy: _(examples)_
Me: Oh so level design.
🍻
What’s the deal with Ms. Pac-Man?
Some of the video is just dark. No visuals.
That is the smallest milk carton I've ever seen..
25:57
i think u dont need 2 limit the player character, u can let the player limit their own character
make them feel uncomfortable doing certain actions, if they can climb a wall 2 bypass something put a guy w a gun there, maybe even tell the player in a tooltip that ur more vulnerable 2 attacks while ur climbing, & if that sticks in the players head theyll deal w the shooter b4 climbing the wall, or if they feel pressed like they HAVE 2 climb the wall, having that tension will give them a nice little stressful moment that is immediately gratifying getting out of danger, but also mentally activating bc they have 2 asses a whole new 180 degrees of potential threat in front of them now
a large part of the appeal 4 speedruns from the average gamers perspective is 'wow, i didnt know u could *just do that* -- damage boosting is a classic example, its not that players cant think 2 do it, its just not something they *want* 2 do
so put stressors that lead a player 2 limit their own character, as apposed 2 limiting their character 4 them
unrelated but take all those binding of Isaac clones. Isn't Isaac pretty linear? I never played it but did play some of the clones. you pick a path but if you don't know what's on the other side you have to go with your gut or something.
The same thing can be found in Enter the Gungeon except this time you have those linear transitions into the open rooms. One problem I have with these kinds of games is the backtracking. Sure fast travel is a solution but if you self challenge yourself not to use fast travel then it'd be a waste of time.
My solution is to make backtracking part of the combat. Not like a breather. When you go into the next room you have 2 rooms to battle in. one is full of enemies and the other is empty. If there are no enemies it feels like you made progress. You can backtrack into familiar territory and let the enemies run into traps you laid out.
I'm no game designer. just a videogame enthusiast. What i do to come up with game ideas that are fun is to make em replayable. One thing I find fun in some games is being able to do more than one thing. Like being a tank and a healer. and so for this level it is also more than one thing. You setup your defenses before going into the first battle, go into the first battle and beat it, and then keep those defenses and make more. Even if placed defenses don't reach the enemy it still is useful in the next room incase it does reach them.
The guy is a amazing level designer. If only his skill in presenting matched his skill in level design.
Damn, burn
@@Goozeeeee like, not to insult the guy, but the presentation is bland, and he reads everything.
I don't think his presentation skill is horrible. But what I don't understand is why he is constantly looking to his left. I hope his audience was sitting in front of him
probably hasn't been able to have much public speaking practice so he opted for a script to cram as much information as possible into his presentation. no need to rag on him, he's a professional sharing great info for free
@@gordo6908 agree
MMM MILK...
If you are making maps where you are proud that you can't predict what the player will do, the map will be boring and uninteresting. That's because it's exactly what you aren't doing or talking about.
A good designer will always know what paths will be taken and how players will interact, because that's how you make things interesting.
I would've enjoyed the "talk" much better if he wasn't just reading from his essay on Radically Nonlinear Levels. He was much better in the Q&A.
Sorry to burst your bubble, bud, but most such talks/presentations are in fact essays/scripts. However, those without much practice in public speaking won't be able to relay the info as succintly and would run out of time. GDC talks are under various time constraints and if you lack the expertise to naturally present your talk, you'll end up doing a poor job. The whole point is to transfer an idea(s) or lessons to an audience than to be a casual talker.
Weird that he almost exclusively talked about first-person shooters and ignored the obvious examples within other genres, like levels from Mario 64 or Odyssey.
best level design ever is still duke nukem 3d. its place based level design . not open world. not linear. PLACES
your complexity is binary exponential
i-d-i-o-c-y
boring game is not any more fun with stupid maps
would you make the game without getting paid, litmus test
were you forced to make the game for some reason, like life support, or freely, as gift, for free
were you forced to stay in your box, your specs
could improve, solely and mainly about this? less braggy!
eh this is just an open world map. just because its borders aren't infinite like your pac man example doesn't make it not open world
Just a series of smaller open worlds that are more densely packed than a single large open world (Metro: Exodus vs Red Dead Redemption 2)
Fantastic talk
Great talk.