How much does WARHAMMER cost? Entry price of EVERY game!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Warhammer is well known as an 'expensive hobby' but is that true? Here's every single Warhammer game broken down by starting costs for a new entrant.
Wanna get Warhammer for LESS? Get your discount HOBBY FIX (and buy me toys in the process!!)
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EDIT: Since doing my research, it turns out the the Kill Team Starter Set DOESN'T contain full rules for the two included teams, only a cut down version. To get full rules you'd need another book, bringing it's cost to £95. However, it's place in the rankings would be unaffected!
If you think being a Warhammer 40K fan is hard (for the miniatures hobbying side), being a WH4OK fan in Latin America is incredibly difficult.
I would say that there’s a cheaper way of entering into kill team, given the entry criteria you’ve outlined doesn’t include terrain.
A box of intercessors. Everything else can be accessed for free - core rules via warhammer community (they’re all you need to get playing) and faction specific rules for the intercession faction via Warhammer community.
The premise here is that you’re playing against someone who already has a team and terrain.
Lite rules - www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/ekD0GG2pTHlYba0G.pdf
Intercession squad - www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Bq0onwVbVTnpoA5k.pdf
@@Dracobyte *Australia and New Zealand enter the chat* I'm not sure how our prices compare to Latin America, but we absolutely feel your pain.
@@AndrewMcColl Where I come from (México), is 20 times more expensive.
In Argentina is 500 TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE.
Plus, you know, taxes and shipping fees.
There's a running joke in Finnish Warhammer circles, so old that I remember hearing it for the first time when I started in the early 2000s, that "Warhammer is much cheaper than other Finnish hobbies, such as ice hockey or drinking."
This is the most Finnish joke since how many Russians it takes to change a lightbulb
I’ve never heard that one. Care to share?
Ditto on the Russian lightbulb joke, comrades.
@@redspy6018 I can not tell you that
venture to the highest mountain of Finland and prove yourself worthy to the monks atop the mountain and they will take you in beat them in a nude drinking contest and only then will they tell how many Russians it takes to change a lightbulb
Actually I just forgot what the punchline of that joke was sorry 💀
I was an exchange student in Finland not long ago, and when I moved into Helsinki, my friend showed me the city. He was like: Alright, Lidl is usually cheaper than K-market or Prisma, shop there. This is the closest Lidl to your place, and also right next to it is a store where you can buy Warhammer. You can't really buy Warhammer in Hungary without ordering. Let's just say I had a bit of an issue with my luggage at the end of my exchange.
I really dislike the fact that 2000pts is seen as the standard, I think it can really put of players looking to get into the game proper, there should be more of an effort within the community to push 1000-1500pt games as a more acceptable standard
Yes. Personally, I seldom play bigger than 1000-1500 myself, and haven't for the last 5 years.
i think that's what boarding action will become. and before that there will be the combat patrol where everything is balanced around only combat patrol boxes
I can't speak for 40k because I've not played it in nearly a decade, but AoS is clearly balanced for 2k armies. Playing at 1/1.5k is fine as a stop-gap, but the lethality of AoS means that anything below 2k can be extremely unsatisfying to play in the long run.
I'd love for smaller sized games to become another viable option in the community, but GW would need to do a lot of the legwork here too and make 1k feel fun.
This is how it was with 500pts as the entry level when I was a lad. For what it's worth lol
The problem as far as I can understand is that the games aren’t really balanced for these sizes, which means if you only play 500 or 1000 points games you might end up not having much fun. Heywoah’s response to Miniac’s AoS rant gets into this a bit: basically, AoS at 500-1000 points is very swingy and has a high potential for feel bad moments compared to the standard 2000 points game. So really, it’s on GW to balance the lower model count games better, especially since they might actually be scaring new players away.
The Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game: The start box set "Battle of Osgiliath" comes with 2 armies, terrain, tokens, dice and full rule book for the game. It also includes a small pamphlet that contains the datasheets for the models in the box set and some scenarios you can play with the models provided. Both armies come up to approximately 370-400 points which is smaller than an average game of MESBG (averaging between 500-800 points, standard being 700) but are easily still playable against one another or in smaller games. These armies can be supplemented with either the Mordor or Gondor Battlehost box sets, however if you do get these you will probably need to also purchase the "Armies of Middle Earth" rule book to get the profile of the troops and heroes that aren't included in the box set.
Battle of Osgiliath Box Set: £125
Battlehost Box: £55 each
Armies of The Lord of the Rings Book: £37.50
As with all Miniature War Games the amount can go up or down significantly depending on what you are looking for, but this is a good starting place.
And even if you're not looking to start Mordor or Gondor, and want to play a Lord of the Rings army well-supported with plastic kits plus a couple resin/metal heroes, it's still a fair bit cheaper than AoS or 40k. And the game's great!
Yeah I came to say the same, that he'd forgotten Lotr
If you think being a Warhammer 40K fan is hard (for the miniatures hobbying side), being a WH4OK fan in Latin America is incredibly difficult.
In Mexico is 20 times more expensive, in Argentina is 500 TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE.
Oh no. Oh no no no. Oh god no. I wish you hadn't posted this comment.
I've been able to resist the lure of 40K/AoS and diving head-first into Yet Another Expensive Hobby(tm), but I probably won't be able to resist the lure of a LotR-themed tabletop miniatures game....
Is Battletech cheaper?
This video is extremely helpful, primarily for kids like me who have about enough money to buy a new pair of shoelaces and maybe a slurpee on a good day
If it makes you feel any better - this has always been the case since Games Workshop founded Citadel Minatures in 1979. You're participating in a grand tradition, at thirteen I could never afford the Bretonian figures I wanted in 2005 either.
Maybe you could find someone with access to a rule book who doesn't care about proxies. At your age I played mostly with preschool toys in my buddy's basement.
If that’s your financial situation, absolutely go for Underworlds (or, if you really want the 40k setting, Kill Team). A full skirmish force you can play real games with will give you so much more fulfillment than bits and pieces of an army.
I remember that time! When my army and all my friends armies were two boxes of the cheapest monopose plastic troops and whatever big characters we'd got for our birthdays!
Ah my friend you have awoken my nostalgic feelings for 1987!
I think part of why we are all so fixated on prices in warhammer compared to other hobbies is the lack of logical (for a customer) pricing model. GW seams to price things depending on how many copies of it they expect you to buy over all so we can have single character model, unit of 5 elite models and unit of 10 infantry all with a minimal difference in cost in no way representing actual cost of material or something tangible. Also if you have playing with models in mid, buying them is only the beginning investment before you account for time most of us spend before having a box painted. While I love painting and other hobby elements outside of gaming I think the multi layered nature of this hobby can mess with perception of investment a bit.
The reason for that how-many-copies-they-expect-to-sell pricing is at least *based* in something real - amortised sculpting and tooling costs, basically - and I'd like to think anyone who can grasp the rules for a GW game should be capable of understanding that. I think the problem there is more the perception that the scale of the difference isn't justified, really.
But compare and contrast GW's injection styrene minis to Forgeworld resin, where the material costs and per-unit labour are far, far higher (resin casting basically can't practically be automated like injection styrene can and resin is much more expensive than styrene per cubic metre) and you'll certainly see the differences. For example, Heresy marines are consistently £9-15 each seemingly based on casting complexity (including some stuff you'd never see in 40k plastics like jump pack troops costing the same per-mini as regular) and characters (again, more-complex minis) are more like 2-3 times more expensive rather than 6-10x.
I think the cost issue rears it head more often around Warhammer (than other hobbies) as many of us start as cash-strapped kids/teens, where the cost does limit what you can do, and the mentality sticks with you. Also Warhammer has kept up with inflation, while the heavy Venn-diagram overlap of video gaming stayed the same price for over a decade (so got relatively cheaper and cheaper since the mid-90s, at least until the latest very costly generation arrived).
As an adult it’s pretty much in line with other similar “scale” (something that uses up a few hundred a year and fits in a cupboard if you don’t go overboard) hobbies I think, if not a bit cheaper. I also think it’s really handy to have friends get into it with you who are happy to play smaller size games or split boxes, share rules etc.
You are coping hard if you think 40k is in line with other similar hobbies. It just isn't. Then again, if you're in the UK the prices are honestly reasonable. It's the +30ish% (on average) burger tax for being in the US that hits us the hardest.
while you can get a game for 60 dollars or around that how many games don't have a cash shop or dlc. the most expensive games are free to play
@@hansyolo8277 40K is easily the best value hobby I have, even if I was paying retail prices. My car, firearms and rc cars are all vastly more expensive, stressful, and break or require maintaining. In comparison wargaming offers much better value for money from a cost to hours of enjoyment point. Even in that space, although Star Wars Legions starter sets are really well priced, the individual unit boxes are comparable or more expensive than 40k, whilst also having way worse sculpts and lower quality plastic.
Warhammer also appeals to people who come in from tabletop rpgs, which in comparison are absolutely dirt cheap, so there is some sticker shock happening in that direction too.
@@lv100Alice Nice strawman.
I think the best way to get into warhammer is to not buy anything. Just find a veteran willing to teach you how to play one of the games. If you enjoy it then start small and work your way up.
Got a friend who questioned the cost a while back. His main downtime seems to include trips to the pub. Nothing wrong with that, love a trip to the pub myself. But, I asked him how much he spends drinking every month. One month, ~ 4 times a month, 4 hours (approx) and 5-6 pints (approx) per time, at a cost of ~ £4 per pint = £80-96 per month. For ~ 16 hours of mostly good fun.
Over a year, that's ~ £1k spend.
I'm really labouring this point, but GW, per hour of enjoyment for me, comes out at a cost of pennies per session over the years. It's not buy it and consume it within a couple of hours. Once you have the minis, the cost goes down and down, every time you play a game. It's very cost-effective fun.
PS. Kudos on the continued excellent quality of the content on this channel.
A tiny thing to notice around the Warhammer Underworlds starter set, is that it contains everything needed to play the two warbands included against each other. However it does not include the magic dice (I have no idea why this was left out of the box). If you then buy a new Warband that includes a wizard, or face someone with a Wizard you will eventually need these dice, that I have no idea where you’d go about buying just the magic dice.
MAgic dice aren't in the starter set because it's basically the First season's box and that didn't have magic. It wasn't added until Season 2.
Fair point. The vast majority of warbands dont need them though so I think you'd still get a lot of longevity out of the game before you need to buy a new starter set
You can proxy regular attack dice as magic dice if you need to, the symbols are wrong but the ratios of them match, otherwise you can usually find the old warband themed dice sets that a lot of hobby shops have had in the clearance bin for years. Or if you know a long-time player then I'm sure they'd be glad to dump some spare dice considering how quickly they stack up if you keep buying the core sets.
The biggest thing to remember with 40k and AoS is that the army doesn't "Rotate out" like say MtG you can basically use it forever.
MESBG? The forgotten games workshop game 😅
Was looking for this.
It’s the best fantasy game in GW‘s range, imo. I enjoy that the rules are actually contained in the main rulebook, you don’t need to understand a library of army special rules to play the game 😊
It's good, but I haven't included it because it's not 'Warhammer'
@Daniel S I've got back into it after 20 years away from the hobby. I'm having a great time.
This was an excellent video for explaining that the separate GW games are and a general cost of how much they are. After playing 40K and HH for about two years I have seen Kill Team, Necromuda, etc. but never really knew what they were. This video was great and I learned something new. I don't think GW spells out what they various games are either, at least I haven't run across a page that summaries them.
These figures are all a bit low, as Ian didn't include the cost of the necessary Warhammer Candles.
OTHER CANDLES ARE AVAILABLE
Starter sets that include two teams potentially work out cheaper. You need an opponent to play, so if you and a mate are both interested, you might be able to go halves on the starter set.
The trick we always talked about back in the day was you and your mate both buying a starter set and swapping the models so you basically had a double set each! If you did this with say, black reach, A marine player would have 20 tactical marines, 10 terminators, and 2 dreadnaughts, and 2 HQ's, which tbh isn't a bad start! and Orks would have 50 boys, 6 Deffkoptas, and 2 bosses. This also gives you both copies of the rules and templates, and ends up costing the same price as buying a starter set on your own.
HOWEVER, the key problem here is that it relies on two people meeting up where each person wants a different army. And because marines are pretty much always in the starter set, and are vastly more popular, this obviously can be difficult to make happen in the real world!
As I’ve grown into the world of adulting, I have discovered that money is incredibly subjective, especially when it comes to hobbies and recreational activities.
Warhammer really isn’t expensive when you consider just how far you can make a box of models go. Like really, really far.
But aren’t they just little plastic toys?
Someone might decide to buy a Gibson Les Paul, play it for a week, and then never pick it up again.
Alcohol, tobacco, cannabis, harder drugs - use them once, that’s it. Literally drinking, burning, snorting, and injecting money.
Yes, plastic crack ain’t so bad. Just don’t look at the pile of shame!
Worth noting, in many countries GW products are a lot more expensive, you're likely going to want significantly more paints/tools over time, and certain factions/list styles can be much more expensive. There are models that cost more CAD$ than in-game points!
Warhammer is definitely the big exception to the general rule that North Anerican nerds get everything first and cheapest.
If you think being a Warhammer 40K fan is hard (for the miniatures hobbying side), being a WH4OK fan in Latin America is incredibly difficult.
In Mexico is 20 times more expensive, in Argentina is 500 TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE.
Yeah warhammer isnt exactly cheap but its reputation for being 'really expensive' is a bit un-earned in my opinion. Many other hobbies cost vastly more and people dont even bat an eye. A single competitive deck in Magic the Gathering costs around £250 and loses all value within a year due to the cards rotating out of play but people seem fine with that.
At the end of the day, if your starting any hobby, its going to cost money and as long as that money covers the amount enjoyment and fun you get out of it then its money well spent. Ofcourse be savy with your spending, but everything costs money.
Back in the 90's I was introduced to Whammer by a buddy, we borrowed his big brother's boxed set and played on the floor of his mother's preschool. We had so few minis that we used the preschool toys as proxies. That orange block? That's a gyrocopter, that red one is a dragon. That gi joe is my runesmith, etc. Even bought a few codexes. Loved Chaos Dwarves because the bull centaurs had mobility regular dwarves lacked while still packing big artillery.
300 pounds is not a lot. Shoot me if you will but 300-400 euros/pounds/dollars gives you superb amounts of painting and playing fun.
I'd recommend the second hand market. Armies like Space Marines, Orks or Necrons (and various other factions that have either sold well or were packed in bigger boxes) are commonly sold online for a fraction of the gw prices. You can probably get a competitive army for a few tenners if you are lucky. Sometimes new on sprue.
I think secondhand markets make sense for players with some experience or who new players with some guidance, but if your just starting out navigating that area can be tough if you're just learning even what you want to play.
If you think being a Warhammer 40K fan is hard (for the miniatures hobbying side), being a WH4OK fan in Latin America is incredibly difficult.
In Mexico is 20 times more expensive, in Argentina is 500 TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE.
@@Dracobyte Wasn't aware of that. Here in the EU it is not as bad but already an expensive hobby. How much do they ask for shipping (and imports) if you'd buy from ebay? There are some English bulk traders where you can get crazy bargains, even with shipping and import it can be worth it once they combine shipping costs. Might not be worth it for separate lots/models.
@@svenv460 Since GW has no official prescence in our region, the shipping fees vary a lot among Ebay sellers, scalpers or resellers.
It's worth pointing out, you never buy full MSRP, that's just ridiculous. The way I like to go about it is, every paycheck I give myself about 50$ allowance to go towards warhamer. If I want to save up I can, so that way, once every other month I go big and look on ebay and buy a bunch of models really cheap.
At this point at full MSRP every model I have bought would total close to 10k $
I have spent nowhere near that thanks to local store deals and sales, eBay, and friends.
Love this, particularly the cost comparison at the end! I've always felt the the price was reasonable considering the quality of plastic, amazing designs and hours of hobbying. I play Star Wars Legion and the starter boxes are really good value, but the individual unit boxes are both more expensive than 40k, as well as noticeably poorer plastic quality and sculpts. I also have RC crawlers - £550 for a starter TRX4 without batteries, and after replacing unreliable parts, buying a a decent charger and a few batteries you'll be £800 deep. Want a low centre of gravity crawler? You're probably pushing £1,500...
It would be cool if smaller games became more common. I've been building 2000 points of marines at a glacial pace for a few months because I keep getting distracted by other factions and painting a detachment or two.
i'm a big fan of gw's "skirmish" games, but i think they suffer from an issue where some part of the player base wants continual releases to maintain interest, and another part of the base (myself included) either paints very slowly or is also invested in _other_ games, so kind of wants the release schedule to slow down a lot (or maybe even stop). i think the main battle games have a similar problem, too (with constant new releases that can be hard to keep up with), but those games are already so popular that i think loads of people would still keep playing them for a long time, even if e.g. no new campaign books or rules updates came out for a year or so. not so much with the skirmish games, where there are generally fewer players: especially e.g. necromunda, which is at its best with a reasonably large group of committed players that can support a "campaign".
if half of the 40k players in the world drop out because there have been no new space marine models for over two months, you can probably still get a game with someone. if half of the players in your necromunda campaign drop out, that might be a little harder to keep up.
If you think being a Warhammer 40K fan is hard (for the miniatures hobbying side), being a WH4OK fan in Latin America is incredibly difficult.
For context: Where I come from (México), is 20 times more expensive.
In Argentina is 500 TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE.
Plus, you know, taxes and shipping fees.
True dat!
Ian, I'm actually a little saddened you didn't mention the used Miniature market. While buying whole armies is still expensive, buying used, individual units are actually way cheaper.
Buying stripper, and those used models is incredibly cost effective. I've seen full sized Heresy Squads go for half of what they cost at MSRP.
It's cheaper but there's a huge time investment involved in getting those used miniatures back to a usable state that you're happy with.
I play necromunda and I have 2nd edition blood angel and ork armies so I buy a mixture of new (necromunda) and second hand (2nd edition). I think both are terrific value because I get to enjoy hours of painting and our weekly games usually last 3ish hours (lots of laughing and chatting) which probably equates to £1.50 per hour of enjoyment over the year. Furthermore I think the community is priceless. Gaming is so friendly, everyone at our gaming club are super friendly.
Sean 2nd edition was one of the best though I do love the Rogue Trader era
@@derekmcmanus8615 I've never played rogue trader but I hear its very good. I thoroughly enjoy 2nd! I like collecting minis from that era
I can honestly say the hobby is quite pricey, but i don’t think i spend any more money on it than i do the other hobbies i enjoy.
In terms of the hours of fun provided, 40k is pretty cheap
As a Tiny Plane Lover, your crime is forgiven
As a person that has always been into the lore but never got around to painting minis and playing games, I find this video to be very useful and I feel like I will be coming back here during my decision-making process hehe. Thanks Arbitor.
I completely agree with your statement.
As I have been into Sci-Fi all my life , I have never gotten into Painting and Gaming line this.
Decision is key because you become part of what you Paint and Create to Play , and the Books alone can be daunting as to pick and choose a path .
There is a massive short cut to the process online at the website ;whereas , the website asks several questions and selects a faction suited to your answers .
I got One group on one try and then answered the questions different and got a different answer. So it appears to choose for you for your style of gameplay.
I want to read the lore and get my choice by the storyline.
Good luck in your decisions
Live Long and Prosper 🖖🏻
The biggest hurdle is the fact there's no cheap version you can start with to get up to speed.
In most other hobbies you can always get a cheap pair of boots and gear or whatever else is considered the basics just to see if you're interested.
Want to get into weightlifting? A pair of dumbbells costs like...30 quid, probably some cheaper ones too, they're just lumps of metal. If you don't like it cool, you just lost 30 quid. Could even just lift heavy objects if that's an issue.
For warhammer there's all the paints, the model construction, the time required to put it together and paint (another hidden cost) before you can even play a single game. And even then you might just not find other players....It's a social game, you can't just do it by yourself. at least there seems to be no official rules to support singleplayer games in any capacity.
So you then need to convince another person to try it.
Anyone trying to tell you it's "cheap compared to other hobbies" is full of it.
Even if 2000 are the event standard size I'd still recommend beginning players to start with smaller armies. Dropping 300 Pounds on a full sized army and turning up at a tournament with only a basic grasp on the game might turn out to be frustrating. Not to mention tjhat it's a daunting task to paint an entire army - I've seen lots of people who bought several boxes of models to start with subesequently turned off by looking at the seas of grey plastic they felt they had to paint.
But in the end it all depends on the local community - I'd say asking one of the local store regulars if they would be willing to meet for a small-sized training game should definitely be considered before going in big...
love the inclusion of AUD.
seeing 40 pound jump from 90aud to 100aud(from paint to underworld) hits too close at the speed of inflation over here.
As someone who enjoyed Aeronautica Imperialis when it first came out don't worry. GW and pretty much everyone else forgot about it too.
"Most stores will sell this with up to a 20% discount" not over here in the US, my local game store ups the price ~25% they sold the HH starter box for about $350 + tax, the other local store had it for $320 + tax, and the closest GW store is 25 miles outside of the city. Ive literally never seen GW stuff at a discount in any private hobby story its irritating.
I wouldn't support a game store that sold product at 20-25% *above* suggested retail price, personally. At that point I go to an internet retailer and buy there, then find some friends and play in my living room instead.
eBay stores have the discount
I have to order my stuff off ebay. The price is just nonsense. Every once in a while I'll throw my lgs a bone and buy a box of something or paints
The reason 500, 1000, 1500 & even 1750 games exist but aren’t played is because GW doesn’t support them with rules. They expect you to play 2k rules with 1/4th the model count and anyone who knows the rules to the game knows how busted that is. I mean the current meta of 500 is running space marine troops because you can run through an objective, take it, and then leave because of the sticky objective rules where you hold an object until it’s taken away.
1500 hits the sweet spot for my group. Big enough to take some cool things and small enough to fit 2 games within the afternoon we have
Great video as ever!
before i watch the video i'll just say that people say warhammer is an expensive hobby and while it's not cheap i have also seen the price of an electric matutine bike
So magazine like age of sigmar stormbringer is worth the money. Paints , clippers, and two full armies and tarrain , 10 pounds a week for 80 issues
Warhammer is expensive compared to kids hobbies, but if you compare it to grown-up big boy hobbies, like say, Golf or Scuba Diving, Warhammer is basically a rounding error.
IMO, it compares favorably in price in to Model Railroading. You have a few pricey models, the locomotives and bunch of fairly cheap models (all the freight and passenger cars), and a *lot* of terrain.
Speaking of Age of Sigmar, I was looking at some Skaven army lists for that I a saw one that only had 37 models in it. Geeze, my Oldhammer Skaven army has single units almost that big. Of course, it's also never been completely painted...
These days I'm mostly into Blood Bowl and Necromunda. BB *could* have been a much lower cost option. Except
that I've got BB16, and BB22 and Dungeon Bowl and Death Match, and 8 different pitches, and 10 teams. And I've still got BB 3rd and the old BB 2nd Astrogranite edition box sets and teams. So far I've held it down to only 4 different gangs for Necromunda, not counting the Goliaths & Orlocks that came in the Underhive and Ash Waste starter sets that I'm kind of sort of considering trading off.
Right now I'm working on getting a couple of BB teams painted up for the Warhammer Open Tournament at Tacoma in July.
Any real hobby costs about 500 bucks, no matter what it is: Instruments, sports equipment, kitchen tools, gaming hardware - whatever it is. Though I'd say knitting is probably cheaper.
The starter boxes from GW are very different in their real value. Some armies like custodes pack a real punch, while others suck extremely (hello Deathguard, hello Thousandsons, hello Mechanicum) but cost the same. Also, GW tends to add free, crappy addons like vehicles (e.g. the free Rhino or that hover thingy Primaris have nowadays) or named characters or overpriced terrain to fake some value. The @Poorhammer channel discusses these boxes and compares them. Other hidden price increases come with new models; they are often monoposed and the boxes contain less models or parts than the previous version of that box. Just look at the new and old Orks or Cadians.
You also don't want to buy HQ- or named characters because they often cost as much as a full box of dudes with a nice proxy in it. Why should I buy some leader for 50 bucks when I get a box with a leader and 4 dudes for the same price?
You also may combine AOS models with 40k models - just compare the 40k Ork Meganobz with the AOS Aard Boyz - you get double the amount of miniatures for the same price and they look better too. If someone needs some different bits, those are also sold seperately from Bits-shops.
I just bought a 1500 points Ork army with 28% discount and strategically combine boxes with interchangeable parts to get more squads out of the kits: th-cam.com/video/ezO8rDMcy-s/w-d-xo.html
I'd also never pay for 40k rules. I did that twice and the codexes and core rules went further before my army was even ready to be played. Also nobody forces someone to play the very latest rules. Just buy an old core book and old codex and play with that. What is it about the hype train to have the latest and bestest (which is never true)?
Because there are 1000 tournament players in the world you never play with anyways?
GW has great marketing, be careful guys.
And every other company sells paints and tools that are at least as good or even better than those from GW, while being a lot cheaper. Also nobody forces you to follow a special paint scheme and even if you want to, there are paint equivalency charts on the web. So instead of taking Dark Angels Green from GW you take Dark Green from Vallejo, which is the frickin same paint in a bigger bottle and for a lower price. Afair they even manufactured the paints for them for a while.
I’m gonna disagree on several points. In Japan you can get a new game console and game for less than a heresy starters set, it comes to just over 400$, and the 200$ for a combat patrol is comparable to a Nintendo switch. I can’t speak for others but any game I buy will be played for years on end and is playable right out of the box so it’s actually better value.
And when I lived in Canada even independent retailers sold at the advised GW price.
I think the major problem is that instead of doing equivalent pricing, GW just converts directly on the exchange rate and then tacks on shipping and taxes, so things become progressively more expensive. I basically had to give up Space Marines and switch to Dark Eldar/ Harlequins because it was the only affordable way to keep collecting, and this really holds the game back in Japan. Models are everywhere over here and you get a good gundam model for 3,650¥, about 36.50$.
Compared to Kingdom Death: Monsters, warhammer still looks like a steal, the base game is about £400 then you've got the boss monster expansions which cost between £60 for the humanoid sized ones to £150 for the big boss monsters, to complete the entire thing you'd also have to look to the second hand market because there is some OOP boss monsters/kickstarter exclusive boss monsters.
I think actually getting the full thing for Kingdom Death: Monster is like £1000+
16:30 - Canadian here, I would disagree with that. While the price of a new system will set you back a bit, even a new video game priced at $70 would be the price of a SINGLE higher-priced unit (or two troops).
Edit: And as for time, it depends on the type of game. If it's an action game, that could be done in a less hours, while an RPG will take up a good chunk of time to complete.
And that's not even getting into the lower-priced indies - that themselves can provide hours of enjoyment - or official sales you can find.
I think its worth taking a moment to emphasize that if you're new to the hobby, it's actually worth to bite on GWs sales model and not try to resist it. You wanna play 40k? Well Kill Team and Boarding Actions are (quite explicitly) the beginner experience. Theyre your entry point. Drop $160 on a combat patrol or Boarding action box of your preferred faction. The viable kill team is included. You're now playing both Kill Team and a mini version of 40k and can have *years* of hobby fun while you start building a full 2K point army.
Its really the best way to not feel like youre having to shell out $600 just to start. You drop less than $200 and then just buy a box here and there as funds allow. When you do it that way, its just another hobby that grows with you, rather than hobby with what feels like an insurmountable barrier to entry.
Just built a knight list 2k points and it's come it for me at £330 that's models and codex which I got cheap luckly enough and with probally 20% discount on most or models
Also I'm nearly £500 deep in HH thats box more models and my primarch Horus himself aswell as traitor codex
A couple weekends of drinking and sniffing costs more than a full ultramarine army... I've made the wrong choices
Considering you're probably going to spend the rest of your adult life buying plastic toys I'm fairly certain the cost of beginning with Warhammer is way higher then this😅
I will say personally as someone who got out of the game around 5th edition. Price was always a huge limiting factor. Warhammer was always a hobby that seemed to demand other hobbies be set aside to make both the time and cost feasible.
I will wrote down that slight against Aeronautica players in my tiny flight plan and pass it to 4 or 8 Ork pilots with Apocalypse-scale planes and they will bomb your two favourite bridges.
Edit - LOL, wrote this post before reaching the end of the vid!
I'm mid-40s and last played 40k in 2nd edition. None of these prices I feel is extortionate for a hobby, when you consider that the priciest here is cheaper than a current gen games console plus games. It's fairly comparable to, say, annual costs for taking part in sports (club/ gym fees plus any gear/ clothing).
If I was to pick out a barrier, I'd be more inclined to say
1. finding a nearby gaming group to play with!
2. deciding whether I actually find the game fun especially in the long term to justify the outlay.
If it's only you and a friend playing, or a group of friends, look at old versions of the game you are interested in trying out. Lots of the old rules are free online. Until relatively recently, the only way to play games like Blood Bowl and Necromunda was to use the free rules online. You can start playing a game like Mordheim for the cost of a box or Skaven Night Runners and two boxes of Freeguild Guard (one with Close Combat weapons and one with the ranged weapons), which get even cheaper if you look at the second hand market or none GW equivalents. All the rules are available free online - thanks GW. I wouldn't be surprised if you could start playing for as little as £10 if you know where to look and use the ol' terrain is stuff from around your house trick.
I would also say that most people don't buy whole armies when starting to play these games. They buy a squad or two of guys and get them made and painted, then learn with a group who already know the game. No need to buy a starter box or anything like that. Start by learning the hobby basics and the basic rules - use proxies if needed. Don't go out and buy a whole army until you have slowly built and painted your first army and know that you love the game. Buying a whole tournament ready army will just put you off before you have even started. 1 box/unit/squad/tank/etc. a month is the best way to start building an army and see if you enjoy the process. Spending £30-50 once a month or every few months and getting that one box together and painted will lead to a completed army that you are excited about putting on the table. And more importantly won't feel like a huge investment or an overwhelming task to complete.
Great video as always. As a long time collector, I was actually surprised by the numbers here. I thought it would have been way more! 👍
Or you could be me, and spend $2000 on a starter army of 2000 pts of Imperial Guard
my photgorpy hobby compared to warhammer its not even close, so its time for a titan?
My current chaos space marine list would cost €582 today, note I’m buying in Euro and this is part of a Collection I’ve accumulated over years, I’ve never spent more that €85 on the collection in one go the entire time, but this particular list isn’t huge only 55 minis so I was a little shocked at how much it would cost today. That’s an average of 10.50 a model or 3.4points per Euro and again that’s just my current list not the entire CSM collection
Awesome job! This was super-helpful in setting a context for the WH tabletop games for a newbie like myself (2 years in). I am deeeeep into the lore and loving it, yet I’ve often wondered about the true scope and cost of the tabletop games. Morbid curiosity on my part. 🙃
That is a perfect video. Like all your ohters. Always a mature point of view. But your caclulation only adds up if you are a robot and only buy the thing you realy need. For a hobbyist your numbers are never gonna hold. Their will always be some other models to buy. New rules. Next army. More paints... you can never have enouhgh paints.
Pricing is always an interesting discussion. One thing I want to note is that while yes, games do tend to be played at certain points values, in my experience there are often veteran players who are willing to play at lower points against newer players.
Glad you included things like video game consoles and a few sports activities at the end there also.
It's amusing that you factor terrain costs into the costs for the skirmish games, but once you get to the mass battle games you don't include it. On the one hand that's a bit unfair on the skirmish games, but on the other hand you're already quoting multiple hundreds of pounds for 40k, AoS and HH, so even without terrain their prices are already much higher. 🙂
Partly it's because the terrain/board in kill team/Warcry/Necromunda is required for play, to the level of specifying layouts, but also included in the box, whereas 40k and AoS can be played on a kitchen table with some piles of books, and if you're playing at events then you kinda assume they have the terrain already?
I think this is why games like Battletech have taken off. Lower entry price, consistent product ranges (GW keep cancelling games/products to push FOMO) and can be played at a much lower model count. And it also has a lot of Lore that is as engaging as 40K.
Please name the last game that GW has actually fully “cancelled”. And while I like BattleTech as much as anyone, it doesn’t really “scratch the itch” when what you really want to play is 40k, lower cost of entry or not.
A great resource for people looking to get into the hobby! I like that you brought up how cheap Warcry can be even though the starter boxes are expensive! Love that all the rules are free (aside from new gangs) and super easy to pick up some AoS minis for cheap from a store or second hand!
What was the entry price for Warhammer Fantasy Battle? I know start collecting box set propped up during AoS.
USD, around 2011 for Blood Isle I think it was called- 8th editions starter set with High Elves and Skaven- was $75. Battalion boxes were also $75, and character models in a blister were $12.75. Metal, too. An army book generally ran you $25, but it went up to something absurd like $40 by the end of the edition which they justified because they went to full color and hardback. Rulebook was around $50. 8th edition was genuinely the worst edition of WHFB, though; if we're talking purely cost, 8th was when we really saw the atrocious meta of massive blocks of the cheapest (in points) infantry you could get on the table as per 'the horde' rule. Basically you would take four ranks minimum, because four ranks would net you +3 to combat resolution. However, 'the horde' made it so that any regiment that had ranks of at least 10 models would be able to fight with an additional rank, and because 8th had the rules for 'supporting attacks', meaning that everyone now fought in two ranks, not simply those with spears (although you could only get one attack with the models behind them, which didn't matter because the majority of models only had one attack), this meant that taking a block of 40 infantry arranged 10x4, either as cheap as you could get them or with spears if that wasn't standard, you were fighting with three ranks, or all four with spears.
This was one of the major elements that lead to the decline of Warhammer Fantasy; this meta of monetarily expensive horde infantry blocks that generally were going to price newer players out because these things were tar pits that felt essential. There was, of course, more to it, but I guess it doesn't really matter anymore. Point is, Fantasy got wildly expensive and GW said "Wow, no one is playing Fantasy now. I guess that means they're not interested. Oh well. Trash it." rather than fixing the game.
I have sunk way too much money building a big 2nd edition army. But the one time I played 9th, I disliked it, and then worked my way backwards.
Best bang for the buck: go with One Page Rules, plus any models you want. It is going to be cheaper than basically anything any game manufacturer offers and is so much fun.
Amen
Enjoyed this video a lot; I thought GW was expensive when I was first getting into the hobby and am glad I don't collect AoS. I do think another useful comparison to include at the end would have been a ttrpg; unlike video games and like tabletop games it's a virtually endless amount of content and a significantly lower price point for most systems.
Thank you for this insightful video. As a Mexican Warhammer 40K fan, it is very hard to get into from the hobby / miniature collecting side. Videogames and novels are a more accesible way for me!
If you think being a Warhammer 40K fan is hard (for the miniatures hobbying side), being a WH4OK fan in Latin America is incredibly difficult.
In Mexico is 20 times more expensive, in Argentina is 500 TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE.
Within my gaming group we often compare the hobby to golf, because that makes us feel better about the money we spend.
I always compare it with golf and cars. Warhammer and golf don't have the upkeep cost of a fast car though.
Very handy resource. Cheers Ian!
I always cringe when people complain about the cost of our miniature hobby. They complain about spending £500 on a new army, but I bet they own a smartphone which costs more (and a TV, and a games console, and an iPad etc.). Sure, it‘s not free, but it is a niche, specialist hobby, of course it will cost some money. I used to play golf and I easily spent more in a month than I do in a year playing toy soldiers.
1:32 not to worry Ian, so did GW!
Thoroughly well laid out explanation
hey theres always battletech 0o0
Beautiful work as always, Ian!
An additional consideration for new players is 40k's two new "~500pt" initiatives, Boarding Actions and the upcoming support for playing Combat Patrol boxes as their own format. It's hard to say whether those are things people will actually want to play in a year (and Boarding Actions may not be any cheaper outside of a playgroup when you factor books and terrain) but it's an encouraging development that GW seems committed to finding a lower barrier to entry for full 40k.
This is why I think the internet and local shop community are pretty terrible at recruiting new players, especially young ones, and it’s great that GW have local shops that do that really well.
The idea that price rises are evergreen content is depressing but true 😂
Forgetting Aeronautica seems to be a theme in the Warhammer community! 😞 With the Horus Heresy Aeronautica book out I'm worried they've shoved into the Horus Heresy Sideshow area. A damn shame, I'm really eager to see Drukhari and Chaos and I have a painted Ork army and also a White Scars Heresy army almost finished.
I think Boarding Patrols is the dumbest one - it seems a really good way to get into the game on the surface but then it transpires you need to buy the terrain set for £130, the rules in Arks of Omen Abaddon for £35, whatever other rules you need for your faction in a random-ass Arks of Omen book for another £35 (and several White Dwarfs with additional rules and tiles for alternate game modes, but let's not mention those), then a Boarding Patrol (if you can even find one) for an average of £75 - so that's £275 for that RRP. I mean FFS just release the terrain kit for £100 and put the rules in there.
Also the most recent Kill Team boxes would be a great 2 for 1 option as they contain half the terrain but GW decided to make all of them limited release, even the first one that came with all the Kill Team rules..
Ironically now with all the 10th edition rules being free (for now), it's probably cheaper to run a 2000pt game of 10th edition than it is to run 500pt boarding actions.
comment for the comment god!
Adeptus Titanicus.
1. It's a skirmish game
2. Starter set as low as £80 do not buy from GW
3. Starter set contains more then 1200 points you don't need a Warlord to play decent games.
4. Rules are 27 pages and no more complicated than any other game.
This is isn't a great take and won't help people get involved sad to say with such a large following people will listen to this as gospel.
Fantastic and very informative video. I'd definitely start with the cheapest option, because less models to paint and short game time. Thank you for making this video. Keep up the good work.
Very informative. I've always been a fan of the lore but have been reticent to get into the tabletop due to the investment of time and money. This is a fantastic overview.
What the gell is a quid
After months of trying to get my non-Warhammer friends to play with me. I guess I’m planing to buy the boarding actions terrain and play different games with my current models.
Seems the best way to get them to play
Rememmber you can buy a new current gen console and some games for the cost of getting a big army of 40k/AOS together 🌠
Even though each AT miniature costs a lot of money, you need so few of them for a full army including options, that it is the game I show people interested in scifi tabletop games.
Can't put a price on happiness
In my country, an imported starter pack cost me food expenses for half a month
GUNDAM MODEL KITS!? HECK MAN YOU DONT EVEN REALLY NEED TO PAINT EM NOW! Granted they are not "Game-Pieces" There posable, customizable, and I'm not forced to buy anything to play! I built these gundams no "knippers" when I was 6! Could this (WH40k plastic-model kits) be done any cheaper? WHY IS A HIVE TYRANT 60$USD!?, when YOU The Players have to CUT GLUE PRIME &PAINT!? your doing the work.....oh for the joy of it? and THATS worth extra pieces that git to sit 'round neva' seena fite?
I would love to build an army, but I spend to much on Motorcycles (XR650L CBR600F2, ect) And a M1097a1 Humvee.
BETTER TO LIVE AS A WHITE SCAR, then just paint them.
FOR THE EMPEROR...
FOR THE KHAN!!!
For me, a lot of the "it's so expensive" feeling stems more from the costs of character or leader or elite models. From GW, a box of Eldar Guardians is 70$ CAD or $6.36 each (if you count the gun platform.) Dire Avengers are 55$, or 11% per model; Fire Dragons are 60$, or 12$ per model. Leaders are 35 to 40$ *per model* and yet, they're JUST A DUDE. Okay, a slightly bigger and fancier dude, but still. 3 hours wages for ONE GUY is *expensive*. And yes, I understand that molds for injection molding cost a lot and the molds for the Farseer are probably not a lot cheaper than the molds for the Guradians; but knowing that doesn't make the Farseer more affordable.
Whereas I could use Stargrunt II or Grimdark Future rules, pay to print them out, buy 50 Wargames Atlantic sci-fi troops, and have a playable force for about 150$ CAD. I could have fun working up some cool leader dudes from the extra bits in two box sets, no need for specialised injection molds. Granted it would be a bit more work to add vehicles and such but not impossible.
Games Workshop does have the large pool of players. The actual cost of me playing Stargrunt II would be in convincing someone else to try it. But, like any other copany with a huge market share, GW is using that power to increase the cost to all of us.
Space Crusade.
Why don't they just reprint Space Crusade.
Classic self contained "gateway drug" into 40K
I am honestly pleasantly surprised you can get a tournament winning Warhammer army for £300, it's honestly the big stupid hardback books i refuse to buy, what was wrong with the 1k% profit margin of cheap black n' white 68 page pamphlets with 12 colour pages in the middle?
Something maybe to give GW a little bit of credit is that aside from the literal cardboard boxes which are made (not sealed n' packed though afaik) overseas by the lowest bidder it is a 'Made in the UK' product. Furthermore it is one run without much in the way of subsidy or collective bargaining (unions etc) which most established/surviving industry in the UK is HEAVILY dependant on (as were all the dead ones mind you).
Tbh it's more criminal to me that some of these US based competitors make worse models (bafflingly, without exception), probably Overseas (i.e. in China) and still have the GALL to try and charge the same as GW, a small/medium manufacturer based in a county pretty inimicable to them.
I think that many people's feelings towards pricing for these games is rooted in age and class. I for instance, grew up as a working class kid and my monthly allowance for most of my childhood would not have been enough to buy a single box of warhammer. I would have had to save literally for two years to play warhammer, something most kids aren't able to do. Now that I am an adult and have a job and a salary, I still "feel" like warhammer is expensive, but I readily spend 1000 dollars on a one week vacation. Meanwhile, if you are a person earning the normal average salary in my country, you would actually STILL have to save up for around half a year to start playing warhammer. Which is insane. But, the same people cannot afford doing any other hobbies either, since we live in a deeply unequal and unfair society.
TL:DR: Warhammer is expensive if you're a kid or if you're poor, and a lot cheaper than almost any other spare time activity middle class people do. And that is why fights over this online always go nowhere 🥸
I started with warhammer when i was a teenager some 20 years ago and stopped because i didnt have the art skills to paint my armies.. with corona and so i now somehow thougt about starting again but got discouraged by the high entry price... i still have no art skills but thougt about giving it a try again and keep practicing when i start again... as nowadays you have youtube for paint tutorials etc. so i did a bit of math and came up with like 110 euro for the ossiarch bonereapers box, with +- 20 colours at lets say 3,60 euro per pot which makes 72 euro for colours/paint, spray not included, 25 euro for brushes, clipper, glue... so around 200 euro or a bit more... and probably also the army book .. so i guess it will be around 250 euro for a starter without the core rule book etc and not an 2000 points army... thats expensive.
The colours make it expensive :(
So i thougt i maybe should start with either 1 leader figurine or 1 small group/army box instead of the entry army box, which would reduce the starter costs from lets say the 110 euro for the army box to maybe 30 euro for a small fighter/base soldier box... this would reduce the costs atleast from 250 to some 170 or so which is still alot... the paint is so expensive, i mean once you have them you are fine but for the start its a huge investment
I’ve only just started, not finished painting and building yet, and haven’t looked at rules, but I’ve spent about 4 hundred pounds on not lore stuff, and that includes the elite edition, wrath of the soul forge king (I’m going for Dark Angels) as well as a Ravenwing upgrade sprue, loads of paints (starter paint kit for 40K, as well as a 10 pack bundle, and 3 or 4 more to get my The lion book into the free shipping) then I’ve spent about £10 on Amazon brushes, £15 on glue, I got the citadel water pot, spend about 20 in Hobbycraft on a knife pack and cutting board, about 5 on kit for a build your own wet pallet, as well as 2 citadel spray cans. It’s a high curve, but it’s going to last me for a while, and I’m going to expend further with a combat patrol, the lion (when he comes out for round 2) and the leviathan box.
Edit: forgot to mention that I’ve not bothered buying any codexes, because of course, but that will also (depending on what happens in 10th) happen. What do people think and where did I go wrong/can improve/need to grab asap?
It's a shame it wasn't included as GW's Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game is pretty affordable compared to AOS and 40k. The starter set gives 2 decent sized starting armies and the model range is cheaper with most troops coming in boxes of 24 models. The most affordable armies being The Fellowship and Thorin's Company as both boxes are £35
Looking forward to an update for '24 already! Price rise is allegedly at some point in March, and with LI and TOW there are two new games in town. DO EET!!!11
Personally Id argue the biggest miss here is Middle Earth as a game, I suppose its not a "Warhammer" game but still GW so would have been a nice comparison. Its a great balance bettween the massive games of 40k/AoS/30k, and the more skirmish games as well it has rules for both and most people will happily play both! Ive been to events at 450 - 1000 points and its as competive and tense across all levels (Optimised for around the 650-800 mark id say). Its also relativley cheap, one of the new battlehosts and a second hero is a great start for it!
I’ve hardly bought anything new in a decade. Multiple armies off eBay, legitimately saved a small fortune 🤷🏻♂️