Illegal? The Current State of 3D Printing Warhammer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- Illegal, unethical, or perfectly acceptable? Let's talk about the current state of 3D printing in the Warhammer community, how we got here, and when it’s OK (and not OK) to 3D print warhammer.
Special thanks to @DanaHowl @billiondollarclownfarm @Terrainosaur @EricsHobbyWorkshop @GoobertownHobbies for being amazing & inspiring!
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0:00 - Intro
1:18 - The DJ Khaled Prophecy
04:10 - 3D Printing Levels Up
05:18 - Community Responds
08:28 - "Obvious Copies"
09:50 - 3D Printed Proxies
10:36 - Printable "Obvious Copies"
11:42 - GW Responds
12:15 - Challenging GW
12:51 - The Official Stance
13:51 - Everywhere Else
15:07 - Execution & Intent
17:45 - Oldhammer
20:00 - Adepticon 2018
20:28 - #SquareBaseMay Collab
20:54 - The Glow-up
21:32 - My #SquareBaseMay Submission
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"You can't 3D print a duplicate of my models, I'll sue you!"
"Still cheaper than your models."
Yea I mean when you can buy a 3D printer for less then one of their models seem more to me like GW needs to update their manufacturing process 600 bucks for a model is insane
@@kirkcrawford5091 Their process is probably really efficient, but people will buy at high prices, so they keep the prices high, to make the largest profit per unit.
Actually yeah
@@Delta-lb1ck yea. You are probably right. Haven’t been into the tabletop for years since I was young but I remember them being quite expensive then and it was either I use what little money I was making to buy models or dirt bike parts( I chose the dirt bike lmao)
@@kirkcrawford5091 When I saw my friends in college spending stupid money on this crap and defending it, I told them I'd buy the stock instead to show them how idiotic they were for defending the prices. I spent less on GW stock than they did on their armies, but while they have their 40k army, I have 40k profits.
Consider this:
I'm not buying a $2000 Product either way, so they lose 0 revenue from me 3D Printing It anyways.
👌🏽
I'll buy the printer and sell you some figures for 30 bucks just get me the schematic lol
Exactly! Just like downloading movies you would never pay for personally, but HEY! at least I watched it and will promote the media if i liked it
Consider this:
It's MY product, I've spend considerable amount if money developing it and making it popular and you want it for free? I'll sue your ass! It's not about money It's about principles!
And seriously, by sharing content for free, whatever its movie or figurine source file you are destroying the market, when the content is easily available for free noone will buy it, market for that content stops existing. I do expect lawsuits sweeping 3d printing community sooner than later, because people there clearly forget copyright exist for a reason.
@@randomnickify Allow me to pick this apart real fast:
>It's MY product
This has never held up in court. Simply put, you don't own a 'product', you own an intellectual property or idea (which Is what Copyright pertains to). This means to strike someone with copyright in most civilized countries, you need to prove that they are infringing directly onto your intellectual property.
>I've spend considerable amount if money developing it and making it popular
Of* And again, this has no legal bearing, nor additional financial incentives. Logically, as long as your return of investment remains positive, there Is not a problem. If the product you produced costs SIGNIFICANTLY above what people are willing to pay, you run into the fact that a failing business has no right to exist in a capitalistic society. If you produced a Titan model that you're trying to sell for $2000, but people can create that very same titan model (including cost for equipment) at $1200, then that's your fault as a failing business that simply can not compete in a markets demand.
Attempts to stifle competition in this way Is called a monopoly, and It Is illegal.
>It's not about money It's about principles!
What principles? Most companies sell their soul for money. What plausible principles are you talking about that would get the ear of any courtroom?
>And seriously, by sharing content for free, whatever its movie or figurine source file you are destroying the market, when the content is easily available for free noone will buy it, market for that content stops existing.
See: www.engadget.com/2017-09-22-eu-suppressed-study-piracy-no-sales-impact.html
> I do expect lawsuits sweeping 3d printing community sooner than later.
_Good fucking luck holy shit_. I don't think you understand exactly what you're saying here - It would be Multi hundred-_million_ operation to crack down on 3D Printing communities and faux miniatures. Good. Fucking. Luck.
>because people there clearly forget copyright exist for a reason.
Copyright exists for a reason, but Its use Is more akin to that of a sledgehammer to bring down on any competition or criticism of your product, which has devalued It significantly in at least European courts.
I like how in the 90's GW literally included instructions on how to make terrain from the trash and now you need like $1000 to have a playable army.
The good old days when games workahop was privately owned, and not public shareholders! When games workshop ment sometging to its name, ie gaming and workshop ie arts and crafts
Oh and that $1,000 will barely get you a bare minimum army and if you want something special in your army it will back closer to $1,500 or more. I am glad that I got my GW miniatures back in the early to mid 1990's. Since today their miniatures are just overprice pieces of crap.
GW did this to themselves…..if I can manufacture the model cheaper in my garage than they sell them from the factory, they are price gouging and being greedy
Correct
Honestly its not even about being more expensive its about how much more expensive it is. After u got a really good printer and you decide to print a whole army ur most likely already saving money from one army alone.
If you included the time/cost to sculpt and then convert this to a printer file you might find that cost balance changes dramatically. The cost of an object is not just based on manufacturing inputs, you've also got r+d, marketing etc to include.
@@paulelephant9521 sure, but I pay 4 quid to my patron guy a month and he gives me back an entire army of models to print, still seems worth it to me
@@paulelephant9521and when sculpters can sell their stl files for just a few dollers, you are personally paying a sculpter for their work, and even using paid for stl files to print, your still saving a buttload of cash
It is cheaper to buy a resin printer, resin, and print a Necron Monolith then it is to buy one. This is GWs fault, since they sell their models at that 900% markup.
They run their toy company like a diamond company.
This sounds like a future project. Haven't printed out any big models but with the rhinos and monoliths are you needing to hollow(resin) these out or just peice them out?
@@Adlexi The latter is usually best. Many people who make the 3D files have them broken down into large parts.
No it's your fault. It's literally just you trying to be cheap, and not support the company, stop acting like they sell it for 10,000 dollars a model
@@isiahduran2041 K, you keep your plastic and I'll keep my money tqvm
Gotta be honest. The more community and consumer hostile GW gets the more I support 3D printing.
This is how I feel about gun control too lol
@@Epiphalactic it’s an infinite circle, the moment someone bigger (company/government) tries to push creative people the more people become interested or sometimes just do it out of spite.
I ain’t against printing guns but if anyone is going to please be safe and don’t take them off your property.
It’s a weird legal gray zone rn and I don’t want people who are proud of their creations to be harmed or scrutinized because of something they love creating.
Seize the means of production
@@clownontherun3449 depends where you live. I can carry mine. I make them it's not a weird grayzone. It's completely legal where I'm at. Thankfully
Very good vid gettin into 3d printing myself with my dad. Have been looking around for files to print and general info. This is one of the best info wise
When a company has abused their own customers for years and has left certain parts of their own product basically abandoned, nothing is off the table when it comes to making your own models or other fan products, since their copyright policies are essentially illegal themselves
This is typical of a victim mentality that people seem to have these days. Its a choice hobby for god sake... its not as though they are selling life essentials. If you don't like the way they operate don't buy them anymore. Its not a difficult concept.
@@chiselcheswick5673 That's the whole point of the video and the comment. They aren't going to buy them anymore, they'll 3d print them. Were you paying attention?
@@parkerwilliams7236 he clearly wasn't and probably doesn't do so usually
@@bayoutalon don’t bother brother, it’s just a shill bot programmed by Games Workshop to locate and delegitimize people who don’t like them
I’m interested by how you say the copyright policies are “essentially illegal.” Can you tell me more? I’m actually mulling over trying to sell printed models and would like an easy way to familiarize myself with GW’s copyright law instead of dying reading legal jargon.
Here's the real question- Why would anyone give a shit if GW went under? The IP would still exist, and it's hard to imagine a company buying it doing a worse job than GW
Huh. So refusing to buy from them actually helps improve the IP. Huh....
@@Gassy1337 it's called capitalism and free markets, most Americans are familiar with it. If GW scales down their prices for some products, maybe they can make more profit on quantity?
as it goes, the main thing that GW do for WH40K is be insanely protective of their IP, which usually translates into high quality off-tabletop content. Well, maybe high-quality is a stretch, but WH40K is sure as shit not going the way of star wars. I can't say I'd want WH40K to be in anyone else's hands.
Welcome back to the '90s; "You wouldn't DOWNLOAD a WIZARD"
HELL YEAH I'D DOWNLOAD A WIZARD
YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A CAR!
@@spiritbox9039 *you underestimate me*
@@spiritbox9039 I would if they'd be on the piratebay
I laugh every time I pop an old dvd in the player and that ad plays. It was sooo over the top and needlessly aggressive. You felt like downloading was like killing your grandma XD
Better question. Why does a titan cost more than a 3D printer that can be used to make titans. The main barrier for fan entry is the insane price. I'd be lucky to see $665 a month in disposable income yet alone waste it on a model.
Fyi the phrase is 'let alone'
@@ravenstarver1360 It's the same as golf, or polo, or model making.
Not everyone can afford the hobbies they want.
@@evanroberts2771 You generally can if you’re smart about it, it can even generate revenue. Like here, 3D print, and you can even sell some.
@@evanroberts2771 You can, just 3D print the models.
Branding, duh. The price is high, but it's all down to branding. That's it. It's why movie tickets vary between locally-made fare and the big blockbusters. Are you seriously asking _why_ something is expensive? Because the company that does it can afford to sell it at that price and that they have enough brand recognition _to_ sell it at that.
3D printing old hammer is like emulating a Nintendo game and should be supported
My son was very excited to play Warhammer 40K. He is just at the edge of being a teenager, and I love that he wants to start a hobby like this that involves planning, creating, reading, etc. If it weren't for 3D printed miniatures he would never be able to play. The books are insanely priced, the miniatures are insanely priced, and there is no way for teens or broke adults to start playing. Dungeons and Dragons is rapidly getting to that point as well. I am so freakin' grateful for 3D printing.
GW has a monopoly, plain and simple.
Yes, I understand it's their rules and their game and their IP. But there are dozens of other wargames that let players run any proxies they'd like.
GW only gets away with their insane pricing model because they're seen as the best and biggest out there.
When I was a teenager, I was able to build three armies, and paint them, all on a minimum wage, part-time salary.
Adjusted for inflation, I was only paying about 60-70% of what GW charges now, for the same molds and kits, just with newer boxes nowadays.
I think it's completely justified, if not even laudable, for the greater community to start printing or sourcing models from cheaper sources, especially when 3rd party miniatures are often higher quality/cheaper/come with more build options.
Example of the last one, the Veteran Guardsmen Kill Team only lets you build it one way. If you want to run without a medic, or add a demolitions expert, or run 4 extra guardsmen instead of a tactical strike; too bad.
Where you can buy an .stl for $10-15 that gives you endless possibilities for how to build them. It's a no brainer.
I guess to sum it up: GW, instead of doubling down on copyright crackdowns, and marking up their own models, should have seen their place at the top of the industry, and relaxed their rules on 3rd party models.
Allowing people to use cheaper models gets them to buy your rulebooks, paints, dice sets. They come to your stores, maybe even buy some of GWs own models.
Instead, locally, I've seen huge exodus of gamers from our local GW store, to smaller and independent hobby stores.
I actually went and checked prices:
I bought a Cadian Squad, which is 20 models with enough parts to make 2, 10 man squads if you'd like. I paid $30USD in 2009 for them.
14 years later and now it's $50USD for 10 models. Granted, these are newer/nicer sculpts, but still wildly priced for a "horde" army.
$30 in 2009 is $43 in 2023, so while I understand not all products follow general inflation, that would be $43 for 20 models.
So I paid $2.15 per Guardsman, and they now cost $5 per Guardsman. 143% general inflation, and GW's inflation is 232%.
@@DSHPerotecHi actually compared the prices between a hobby shop i know and an offical warhammer store recently
An official warhammer store i went to was selling a pack of 5 marines (i couldnt say exactly which one) it was priced at $130 nzd and about a month later i went to a hobby store in a smaller town the sxact same pack was $103 nzd not that much cheaper but still a markup
D and D sucks
I wouldn’t print and sell their stuff.
But I’m going to absolutely print anything I please for my own personally use.
I think printing for playing it yourself can't be sue and I think people should be free to print what they want.
Though there are many people who sell the printed one at the lower price and I think no one should support that kind of behavior.
I'd sell custom pieces that GW doesn't make
@@Ike_of_pyke Well, the video did mention that GW allowed custom pieces if the design isn’t the same as the original one that they make.
@@raventhc8847
"if the design isn't the same"
that's a lot of wiggle room to consider yourself safe from lawsuit and to let GW legal department think they have a case
i agree whole heartedly, if i can 3d print an entire army of several 10 man squads, several tanks, an entire command group, some walkers, and heavy artillery for less than $500 that's a huge fucking win (i play a dkok army and on forge world this sort of shit would have left me in maybe close to $800-$1000)
GW lost the Space Marine copyright, one reason they rebranded to Astartes.
How about forge world? That was a Halo map
Just confirming this they actually LOST of the trademark on 'Space Marine' because it was too generic. It's always why they've been going around rebranding all their 'generic' named armies into more trademark/copyrightable names. So Imperial Guard becomes Astra Militarium. Orcs become Orruks and so on.
@@blackdragon5274 loved playing custom games on halo
@@luketfer Yes exactly its why with D&D people and companies can create lines, there is a point where it is a generic term you cannot copyright Wizard, Mage, Thief and such, even the races are generalized with only name being really unique, yet they are so un unique because there is a host of IPs that use similar races.
@@blackdragon5274 Forgeworld existed looooooong before Halo ever did
I'm so old, I remember when GW had holiday sales in America. Those were the days. In all honestly, I worked for GW for two years right near US HQ. All I can say is after the accounting guy bought out the creatives the company became about one thing. Milking the customers.
"They [customers] are morons for buying plastic at double the price of handspun pewter. They are addicted and will pay anything we say" - literal coporate head at a region meeting when I asked him how it was more expensive to make guard in plastic than pewter lol.
Seriously. The costs of plastic continue to drop over time, as does the means to mass produce models, yet their prices continue to go up. If anything is criminal, it's that.
Dp you think that one day they might go back to that business model?
@@JohnDoe-or2qg Fuck no. They are even changing rules systems to have fewer models on the table at the same if not higher price.
I thought this guy was a lawyer! My mistake!
Well, on one hand, everything is more expensive due to inflation. They have to pay for plastic, but also for taxes, pay employees, marketing, etc. That has a cost and that must be reflected in the price. That's simply how every business works. On the other hand, every year their benefits are higher and I am sure that their employees doesn't see those benefts reflected in their salary. In any case, I can understand for tournaments to just allow official miniatures. That doesn't mean that's not classist. It IS classist. Like, ie, in videogame tournaments, the games and all the stuff needed are granted by the organization. Before banning people who can't afford GW minis, they should grant the possibility to anyone who request it to play with an army granted by the organization. Anything else it looks to me like "oh, you are poor??? we are really sorry but we don't allow poor people to play with us the chosen ones". Like c'mon, at some point in our lives, we or a friend of us has been in that situation of "I need to sell my armies" or "I just can't afford a single miniature". When I started to play, back in the early 2000s, my friends had to lend me their own armies to play, and I had to save money for 3 months to buy my first regiment. Thinking about modelism, for me, making your very own designed army will always have more merit than any bought army, no matter how well painted is.
When they charge so much for something so cheap I don't question morality anymore. They don't deserve the consideration.
When is it OK to 3d print Warhammer. Always. It's always OK.
@Stinko De mayo That’s a great excuse to justify greed and IP theft :-)
@Stinko De mayo It shouldn’t be a consideration who the “victim” is when going against the law. That’s self justice. Just boycott them instead of stealing.
@@RegrinderAlert boycotting wont do anything, some hardcore fans spend thousands of dollars in minis because they have the money, but people who have less money will never be able to buy a decent army for a reasonable price. Its like the story of robinhood, do you think its bad to steal from the rich who have monopole and scam everyone ? They are the only one allowed to sell WH content, while the major thing that makes the community alive is the community itself. We dont ask them super low price, just to be reasonable.
@@a.i.m.f8567 Self-justice is always bad. Any excuse to steal is. Games Workshop is a shitty organisation indeed but that shouldn’t promote doing shitty things. It’s hypocritical.
@@RegrinderAlert its not self justice, its common sense, for example : if you cant buy food, you either steal it or make it yourself. Playing warhammer is of course not as valuable at eating, but if you want something and there is cheaper option, you just take it. You know something is overpriced when consummers think about doing it themself. I mean, do you make anything for your own life ? If yes, then i must congrats you, i personally prefer buying rather than making it myself because im lazy, but the prices of GW are just too expensive. For example, a soldier mini is, by raw material, not worth much than 2$, yet they sell it for 10. The GW minis may be beautiful, thats not a decent price for such a low material value.
Imagine thinking saving money is bad,if I can get something by 3d printing it and save enough money by doing so to buy another 3d printer then the problem is the price of the original thing and nothing else
And when you have hobbyists out there making designs for free you cant even argue that they have to pay sculpters thousands of dollars to design them.
@@johndorian4078 People love and I mean LOVE the lore, hobby and the community. What they unanimously hate is the GW's business model, its reaction to anything fan made by ban hammering it (take the recent censure of 40k animators) and of course price of said products. They frankly don't deserve their IP if they continue their anti-consumer actions and just outright neglect for their community.
@@Marth667 That nod to the Pillar Men Custodes at the end of the video pained me. RIP TTS.
I seem to remember their attempt at copyrighting “Space Marine” as a term was rejected for to how broad the term is, i.e. 1990’s Doom Guy was literally referred to as both a Doom Marine and a Space Marine
There are also a series of books called Space marine... quite old now and nothing to do with GW... as you say they failed on copyrighting the name.
It's ironic considering GW stole most of their content
TSR tried to copyright "dragon" fpr their Dungeons and Dragons.
But they HAVE to.
Its sounds stupid. But american copy right law demands that you show that you protect your IPs.
esp with a SpaceForce now
@@tommyakesson8858 That would add up if they tried to copyright a different part of their IP, that didn't happen to gather the most attention from fanart, fananimations, etc, and if they didn't shut down the Astartes short film.
The disdain I have for GW can only be described as galactic. As someone who's been involved in this hobby since the late '80s, I've seen GW gouge prices year after year after year like clockwork with no regard for the community. Removing models from play, changing additions, blatantly power creeping armies for the sake of sales, and waiting until God's tears hit the ground before they release a new Tyranids codex makes me care not one bit for the ethos behind 3D printing.
If they were smart, they'd get in front of this in certain embracing it rather than chasing the almighty investor / shareholder capitalist dollar
Ooo how bout 'brobdingnagian?'
Hey, are Female Space Marines OK if we make it only Cato Siccarius? I feel like everyone would feel better about it if they could hate fuck their frustrations out on some spicy R34 art
I agree, I will do EVERYTHING in my power to bring their sales down 4 life.
I despise them for what they've done over the years.
Love the IP hate the company and their methods
Same here, brother. Old rogue trader player, worked for 'em in the nineties, saw the collapse into vulturism. We've had more editions of 40K in the last twenty years than we've had in the first twenty years. That's a clue. Their models (especially fantasy - this doesn't really apply to 40k) are increasingly IP-centric and thus have less utility outside their own games. That's another clue.
They are simply a way to hose people's wallets out, nothing more, nothing less. All they want is all the money. They have no interest in providing a fun product.
I hope you enjoy your Tyranid Codex before next year ot becomes obsolete. I have yet to use mine...
It's only illegal in the US if a person tries to sell them, but even then it's largely unenforceable. Suck it GW.
No idea where you got this ridiculous notion, but the reason it's called "copyright" is because it refers to the right to copy. Making unauthorized reproductions is copyright infringement.
@@ev6558 Yeah no shit, but as long as you're not selling them you'd never get caught, hence the unenforceable part
@@george_denbrough OP said it wasn't illegal if they weren't being sold, not just that it wasn't enforceable. You know you look pretty dumb when you say "no shit" and then demonstrate that you don't actually know what you're talking about.
@@ev6558 actually you just played yourself with that one considering making yourself something not for resale even if it infinges on copyright is completely legal as long as its not getting resold. So in the end the poster is actually correct in that assumption of legality/legal status. It's actually quite similar to the rules with homemade firearms it doesn't need testing in a lab or a serial number etched into it.
However just like the last case you just don't sell it to anyone else and its all fine and dandy. you could most likely even use it under all laws governing normal firearms including I believe seld defense in home within reason. So to be frank the irony of calling someone out for being dumb in this situation is not missed.
@@dr.dylansgame5583 Nope, you're wrong. They can still have a court order you to stop and easily argue that you 3D printing their minis instead of buying them is costing them sales. It wouldn't be worth their time unless you were selling them and making money, but it is absolutely not "completely legal" and you also have no clue what you're talking about.
Yeah playing Warhammer is more expensive that a serious cocaine habit and even less socially acceptable..
I know a guy thay used to be a coke dealer and he actually laughed when I told him the cost of a single Warlord
Some deal cocaine, to afford their warhammer addiction..
not quite, i know people who have sniffed a house worth of cocaine into their brain within a year, its expensive, but not that expensive
This ; this right here
@@EmilReiko and some deal Warhammer to afford their cocaine addiction
we call them GW (at least that's what I'm assuming they need all that money for) XD
My opinion/prediction: 3D-printing will just get bigger and bigger. It will soon become a necessity for a lot of people who are involved in hobbies that include miniatures. Games Workshop should just start selling the Models online, so they can be legally printed with a 3D-Printer at home. Yes, some minis may look shitty at first, but that's similar to people who paint their first minis. If Games Workshop doesn't jump into the marked of selling their Models for 3D-printing, some other wargame will probably take that marked and with 3D printers becoming cheaper, it could even be cheaper to get into that game, than buying expensive miniatures for Warhammer 40k.
Subscription service that gives HD versions of their models to print.
No. They should continue to prosecute the thieves that make the prices higher for everyone *else!* Also? DUH! xD
nothing is going to change, people really like the 40k lore and are completely addicted to the disgustingly overpriced plastic, every other wargame is completely irrelevant and no one plays them, gw have a de-facto monopoly on wargames, 3d printing or not, its not going to change any time soon, i saw a guy get kicked out of a gw store for having copy printed RULE BOOK, store owner basically said "buy the book or gtfo", it was baffling that the players agreed with him and were very hostile about it, that shit was depressing to see, people are really addicted to this stuff
As a player of TTRPGs I like getting into new worlds and trying new things. I've always been interested in Warhammer 40k but they make it so unappetizing to someone like myself. I don't want to spend several hundred dollars to START playing the basics with 1 small army when I might not even enjoy the hobby, or have the community around me to continue it.
$1000 for a Warlord Titan? No, actually try approximately $70 with a well tuned FDM printer like an Ender 5.
Probably added cost of printer?
@@bigchungus7050 300 or more if you want upgrades
I think that's how much the person who created and painted the figure is selling it for.
dude, you can buy nowdays a resing printer for 200 bucks, and they are amazing.
@@fastbyte4583 damn eh printers got cheap fast haven't looked into em in a minute
There's a seriously easy solution to this problem. GW just need to lower their ludicrous prices and then people won't look towards 3D printing
And also treat their fans better. I've been mulling over my first 40K purchase, but then Alfabusa cancelled TTS out of fear of GW's zero-tolerance policy. 40K tastes a little sour now. TTS was a huge contributor to my interest in the IP.
@@astro6009 i feel the same, was going to get into warhammer 40k but GWs buisness practices has put me off it
I wanting to get into painting warhammer but seeing the price of $60 for necrons not counting paintings. Adding the facts of not knowing how to paint would be $60 down the drain so thinking about buying a 3d printer instead.
I started in my late teens and have been on a long hiatus ever since. I worked for a considerable time as a teen for summer jobs and odd tasks around the year and put a bit of money on the side every week. I was 15, and sooo happy to go and buy a couple boxes of fantasy Skaven, a full kit of paints, brushes... the GW dude behind the counter was all smiles, welcoming me into the community. 6 months later, the game was axed. My awesome ratmen were obsolete. Now obviously, I was a noob, the news must have been circulating for some time etc, but I didn't know, and kinda felt scammed. Never bought anything from them again. 300€ down the drain as a teenager kinda pissed me off.
@@k.v.7681 It's sad when a game loses official support, but the great thing about physical games is that you still have the pieces. The Miniature Police don't show up and confiscate your models and books; well, not at local independent stores at least. I have no idea about official GW stores. But in most communities there are usually hold-outs refusing to update their rulebooks to new editions, and folks playing long-dead games. As mentioned in the video, there are fan groups that continue to compile rules judgments, officially-unofficial errata, etc., some of which get adopted by large conventions. And, they're models. You can use them for Dungeons & Dragons, or any game they'd make sense. Heck, I bought some Nighthaunts to make a Halloween diorama, I don't even play Age of Sigmar (although weird tie-in, I kind of want to make a Skaven army for AoS! So if you still have those models and don't want them, I'm in the market...)
A tangential topic I saw someone else mention recently was about GW culture kind of making people identify as a "40k player" or an "Age of Sigmar player" and buying within their lines, whereas wargaming culture used to be much more about trying stuff and you'd play different games every week; so sometimes you're like, "This looks cool, let's find out if we have any models we can use for it."
Napster also helped the music industry post record profits, at the time.
3D printing, and the ability to print miniatures, has brought more people to GW products.
GW is missing a huge market by not selling the model files, which would cost them zero in production costs, and would just add revenue.
This is the music industry all over again. Eventually the music industry embraced MP3s, and now it's making them far more money, including streaming music. No production costs, and all profits.
Good point, let's see if they do embrace it 🤔
I wonder how that would affect their business approach moving forwars.
My local game store is all in for 3d printing, with multiple players having resin printers and printed models being fully accepted into tournament play. In fact its so supported that people freely ask on our FB page if anyone will print parts/models for them.
Is it partly because the game store's cut on miniatures is poor? Depending on their business model they might not care if people stick it to GW either.
If GW actually treated their fans and customers with respect maybe we would see less 3d printing...
The thing is ; fans NEVER needed warhammer to write rules and make models. Yes they cornered the market but no they are not irreplaceable.
I mean, I still want custom stuff I made. But as of right now I feel most xenos armies are slowly moving towards custom models since GW doesn't even want to support them.
@@alt0248 higher quality models too and we get to meet the artists and like them.
Also its minus the horrendous white male hating identity politics which has invaded and subverted GW .
@@alt0248 yha seraphon in AOS still using old models that look like shit.
@@alt0248 In fact it feels like GW played themselves. NEW people maybe buying yet people that want certain things that they can't get 3D Printing is the better path
Its ethical to me due to how overly expensive they sell the figures for.
Where can I find the stls
@@barflordlord9273 i like that you think some complete rando knows that
@@syrusalder7795 thingiverse has some
@@barflordlord9273 unless Aclever Name is secretly thingiverse, then there is still no point asking them for the stls. Its taking some rando off the street and asking for the code for the combination safe your neighbour keeps in their dildo drawer
piracy aka copying. Is the markets reaction to anti consumerism. It is a necessary and morale force
I've wanted to get into 40k for years. Dropped 100 bucks years ago for what i later learned was not even a quarter of enough points to even play. The cost of paints, decent supplies, ect, on top of the crazy prices for the minis made me already drag my feet in actually getting into it. Then i found out how much ONE book costs, not even including the faction books, the supplement and equipment books, the subchapter books.... i threw my marines in a box and years later just gave them away. Fast forward to about 2 years ago and i bought some tau pathfinders. Absolutely love the look of their mechas. Havent touched them since painting them, most arnt even finished cuz when tf was i ever actually going to afford to build an army? Now i got a 3D printer.....
Screw GW.
For real change to occur, GW needs competition. It needs to be a real company, producing good models at good prices, have a good backstory, and for the love of god, a good ruleset.
Who's up to the challenge?
Its the same issue with DnD and RPGs. There are tonnes of better options but to people starting out DND is synonymous with roleplaying.
Likewise Warhammer IS tabletop gaming to most people.
I've seen some of the Patreons and I think the change is coming. We just need to streamline the process and maybe make 3d printing a wee bit cheaper still.
There are plenty of solid games out there that are much cheaper than 40k with good rules. What everyone wants however is a knockoff of the grimdorkness of 40k. They have the setting that angsty teenagers drool over. Otherwise you can play Mantic King's of War or Firefight and just enjoy a much better game. Plus they don't care if you 3D print.
And that is why i buy Games Workshop stocks instead of models, they cost around the same.
Most epic comment brother^^
Based
it illegal or unethical to 3d print? Don’t care. GW is a terrible and predatory company that screws anyone and everyone who is creative and tries to make fan content. Long story short, they should go bankrupt.
the day i heard about the hiatus of TTS
*cue the pirate music!
Agreed, they need new management.
They could've gone on board with that and just sold specs for printable miniatures that their 3D Printer using customers can make use of themselves. That, and provide a means for a discount on alternate painting/modeling supplies ordered online with a code given from them to do so... or even coupons if they have to.
*That* would have given people an incentive and ensured they'd still have a customer base.
Aye……. The 3D printing art should’ve bunkrupt games work ship a long time ago..
Let GW suffer, people outside the UK probably don't know this but GW are a gaggle of predatory bastards who would move into area's to force out or just buy out other model stores and then those GW stores would inevitably fail due to low demand (this is during the 2000's and early 2010's when it was a niche nerd hobby) leaving "hobby deserts" so i now have to get all my hobby materials off of amazon because small UK model shops online don't stock terrain supplies and there are no physical hobby shops anywhere near me.
I happened to stumble upon this video, and may I just say I appreciate how much time and effort you put into explaining 3D printing and GW. I absolutely love the WH universe, and a few years ago I had a Tau army that I hadn’t even gotten the chance to play with( Really long story, basically got it as a gift from someone who was painting it for me, and he did a real bad no no and I never got the chance to get my army from him). This video answered a lot of questions I had in my mind about 3D printing and 40k. Thank you very much sir!
As a non Warhammer player, I found this video quite useful. I absolutely understand both positions, but pricing has always been insane. I remember looking in this as a kid, because it was played at my local shop, but as a young teen I simply couldn't afford it, so I skipped on it.
I can understand that it's a tricky position for them to be in, sure lowering prices would be cool, but it is a publicly traded company, they HAVE to optimize profits. This also makes it hard to consider other options, like selling the plans, so that instead of people using their models to print they found for free, they could just pay say 100 bucks for that 2k model, and then print it themselves. You could even have like an online registration system where the event holders can see if you actually paid for the designs or not.
But that in turn would of course result in far more printing, because all those people who are opposed to it, would drastically decrease if GW would actively support this alternative way of getting these models on the table.
At the end of the day, 3D printing has changed a lot with board games, both resulting in amazing creative additions to games, to a split in the community on what is right and wrong, and we see this in other similar communities as well, for example with Lego, where some have no issues buying a knock off version of a recent model, others having no issue with retired models, some having no issue with individual blocks to build cheaper in large quantities, and some of course flatout refusing anything that wasn't made by Lego.
Personally I recently bought a 3d printer, and will likely buy a resin printer as well. I play a game called Unmatched which has a strong supported community for your own creations, where the developers support you with files and info to make it look as good as possible. Imo this doesn't hit their business model, but instead improves upon it, because the creativity behind it is what motivates us to enjoy the game so much.
As a kid I was simply amazed by seeing that big beautiful battlefield of Warhammer, gorgeous models, great field etc, and I can absolutely feel what some are saying about the difference between some cheap ugly grey model, vs a beautifully painted model, because those grey models always feel bad, and it's the creativity that makes it such a rich experience.
Lastly aside from the stock price, I do wonder in general what 3D printing has done for the engagement in the game. GW is doing fine obviously, but with all of these games (tabletops, but also TCG's etc), player activity is always the trickiest of them all. I have to travel quite far to even play like Pokemon TCG, since my closest gameshop (which is roughly 25 mins by car), only really supports Magic. I don't even know where I could play Warhammer. With these games being so expensive, it's hard to build a proper community. I can absolutely see printing making this hobby much more attractive, meaning more player, meaning more players who just buy the models in the stores. So I can actually see this all having a positive effect. Kinda like a dying game going F2P to boost activity.
So that's something I would absolutely tell to all those hating on those 3D models, would that possibly very nice person who wants to play against you with printed models, be there if that wasn't an option?
I haven't be so immersed in a TH-cam video in a long time... what the hell does that say about me? - I'M INTERESTED IN INTERESTING THINGS
Aaaah - THANK YOU JAZZA! I'm glad you enjoyed it! Looks like it's time to start making the sequel then... :D
Danny has found a wild Australian Jazza in the comments, Danny used Sequel... It was super effective!?
p.s. If you see this Jazza, sneak in a cheaky imperial body guard pose next VR sketch
yoo i didnt know you was into Warhammer.
@@snazwonk2066 He has videos about it though
"Yeah danny, do whatever you want with my footage"
That is actually a "counts-as" proxy of your footage, Trent. i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/010/606/orangutan_square.jpg
Also, please forgive me (eventually)
(m;_ _)m
Hahahahaha
@@3DPrintedTabletop damn
@@3DPrintedTabletop I know that you probably will never respond to this message but I had to ask. Where did you get the files for those amazing custodian. I would love to paint up a few of those they look great!
After a house fire and losing my two armies. 3d printing is the only reason I ever got back into warhammer. I've never had a player be upset I printed my own army, players just want more people to play with. As the years go by, more and more people bring prints to the table, and were more concerned about how cool and unique they are instead of being priced at the 65 cents it takes to print it instead of someones 8 dollar marine or 70 dollar big unit.
I loved playing Rogue Trader when Space Marines were 'beakies'. I even modded a Space Ork with a funnel over his mouth imitating a SM with 'No Yer Enemy' on the base. might be fun to print out
MAYBE if they didn't Overcharge, and intentionally UNDER PRODUCE products people wouldn't 3d print.
I'm not into marketing stuff, but that makes no sense to me. If there is a demand for 1.000.000 Indomitus boxes, why would GW ever intentionally only make 100k ?
I get, that they have to gauge demand for limited editions like the new dominion box or indomitus. Can't have the 500k boxes sitting on shelves, so they rather make 900k than the 1M.
But that's not intentionally underproducing to me.
@@Lodorn thats assuming the cost to produce is a linear increase. it might be cheaper to allocate resources to a smaller run for a bigger profit then a longer run over time with a reduced profit
@@Lodorn it gets your brand hyped up like crazy thats why like the overprized sneakers selling in a very low amount.
try being Australian, i keep checking and its like a 20-30% markup (after converting numbers to AUD) for no reason
They're literally hitting a wall currently on production. They have a relatively small factory in Nottingham, England. That factory isn't all that big (and it also produces all the Forge World items too remember), so the number of sprues it can produce will be limited and they'll want to cover as much of the range as possible, so they'll have to make strategic estimates on how much of each item to produce. They've stated they deliberately made 3x as many of Indomitus as they did of the 8th edition starter boxes and expected that to be plenty, they were surprised apparently. Then you have to factor that the printed materials and boxes come from China, and that often has a 3months lead time, anything that screws with the shipping/delivery times can make a real mess. Another factor to consider, especially last year, is that for a while they couldn't produce anything as the lockdown rules in the UK prohibited it.
Now that isn't to say I'm defending GW, even if it might sound like it. But rather there are factors that make some of the decisions understandable. There is potential for improvements in the future though, as they're due to bring a new factory online in the next year or so - likely delayed by the pandemic - and that should allow them to produce far more plastic than they currently do, how much that translates to available stock is another matter entirely of course.
GW: "We aggressively protect the intellectual property rights of the property we aggressively stole from other science fiction and fantasy creators."
70 million times the like.
I regret that I can add only 1 like to this. While GW does have a lot of neat, original ideas, much of the time it's like Chinese knock-off manufacturers being angry about someone "infringing" on their IP.
Feels like this is something that should be discussed more when talking about this subject. If someone is referencing specific game rules, balance, etc., then sure - they created most of it. But the visual designs of their supposed intellectual property? Its pretty much all straight up rip-offs from other creators.
This is such BS though. Yes, Warhammer 40K takes it's inspiration from a lot of other sci-fi properties. But um... guess what? So does literally everything else. And over the past 30+ years, the 40k IP has become it's own distinct thing, and I can't fault GW for wanting to protect their intellectual property.
@@MichaelAlthauser I certainly don't fault them for protecting their original IP, I just take issue when they do things like - try and sue others for use of the term "Space Marine". Sorry, GW, you didn't even come close to inventing that. Talk about hubris. And while pretty much all of sci-fi and fantasy indeed take inspiration from prior art, the difference is that almost none of them except GW resort to lawyers over it.
Boy! Your videos have come a long way! Incredible! Love where you have taken this channel. Keep it up.
The problem of low quality models was never the old 2k printers fault, its getting good stl files in the first place
as an Old Fart, this is the same bs argument that the release of blank cassettes and the music industry, and lo and behold, the music industry still exists.
It is simple economics. If you make a good, high quality product at a reasonable or even good price. People will buy it. If you lose 1, 2 or all those qualities people will look elsewhere. Losing 1 isn't going to bankrupt you most likely. 2 or 3 are next to if not completely impossible to profit on.
Same principle when Steam and distribution became mainstream. People abandoned piracy in droves because it was now easy and affordable to purchase and install games via the web.
well to be fair what happed to the music industry is they had to adjust to the tech or piracy would have killed it. look at music now. its super cheap to get the song you want. that's because if it is to expensive then people will by nature go to the cheaper way. that way was illegal downloads. now guess what we are seeing a repeat just this time it is figures and not music. GW and any one els will have to lower there prices or lose out to pirates.
@@joshuaclark3406 yep. GW will have to do as the music and games industry and keep prices low.
@@ashlevrier That's true, I guess the point I was trying to make is that it's still prohibitively difficult to replace GW entirely with 3D prints. Until the point at which that difficulty reaches parity with the ease of just buying models from GW, then I can't see it ever starting to make a dent IMHO.
I know lots of people who love warhammer, 40k, blood bowl, battlefleet gothic, and on and on. I don't know a single person who likes GW...
What is insane is that nearly everywhere else that sells the minis, prices them cheaper than GW!
@@wheeliebin18 same! I don’t get why anyone would pay for a $90 start collecting kit from GW, when it’s 65 on amazon
@wheeliebin18 yah, I was shopping around for Lictor models not direct from GW, it's still pricey but I'd rather save a fiver *and* get free shipping 🤷♂️
You speak for an entire community, and we are grateful that you are using your platform for this. Also i love this format!
Despite being a bit of an earlier video, I just saw this for the first time, and it was both really down to earth and hilarious. Can't wait to check more out
We have to recognize reality. I am friends with every GW in my drivable area. I cannot see their stores operating as they are 5-10 years from now. We are in the Stone Age of at home printing and there are already some amazing sculpts. It’s not going to go backwards.
Exactly. GW is in a transitional phase. They will need to adapt to common home printers. Focus more on events, movies, t.v. shows, books, other merchandise, etc.
Or they will turn into "video killed the radio star".
They should embrace it and sell schematics, special resins, paints, etc
Im sorry but who are these "fanboys" that are griping on this
Majority of the Warhammer fans I know laugh at the idea of GW losing profit, or promote kit bashing using cheaper models.
At my local gamestore my group has talked about how we try to avoid ordering from GW directly whenever possible. We don't like GW that much and want to support our local store. Forge world and 3rd party modals are ok and the only criticisms I ever recall of 3d printing was that the quality was not as good.
There is another group that is more strict and competitive that meets on a different day of the week but even they don't really seem to care about GW's profits and admire the work people put into good modifications and proxies that don't look out of place.
Internet shills meant to control dissent.
No idea how they pulled it off but GW has a massive Propaganda machine and that alone is the reason we'll never get rid of them
They got that hate for being so damn greedy and outrageous with their pricing.
Likely people let the Reddit cloud there impression of the community.
GW should just start selling STLs, partner with some hideously expensive 3D printing company and sell them in their stores along with some ‘official’ resins at silly profit margins. I know a lot of people who would pay for official STL files, print them on a recommended printer using resin bought from GW then paint them with paints bought from GW. Plus, if GW went down this route they could release products more often, cut back on manufacturing, warehousing, stock, retail costs, etc. If they tied into warhammer plus like a library of small cosmetic prints a single designer could knock out in a couple of hours like a helmet/shoulder pad/head/etc I’m convinced people would find a lot more value in warhammer plus.
I’d be pretty surprised if a lawsuit over the term “space marine” wouldn’t get laughed out of court. It’s so generic that they’re relying on people responding to C&D’s instead of taking them to court
GW, "... ensuring that our worlds are synonymous with quality."
Me, "GW, ensuring that their worlds are synonymous with outrageous prices."
That quality part got me especially hearing all the stories about forge world products
@@debinoh4273 ahh but remember forge world is not technically G.W. (/s)
@@krisblunden1642 Ah I forgot, so basically they're blameless & can do no wrong! This is a big brained revelation right here.
There's dozens of companies that have surpassed GW in quality years ago. Yet they still remain overpriced.
@@ADHadh Not just overpriced! They also RAISED their prices during the lockdowns when most people were loosing their income.
I'm gonna print off a big beaky helm later today ;-)
It's time to accesorize your canoe, Brent...
I love you doing the ooh in the song at 0:47
Hey Brent, loved your pop up cameo in the vid. 😂👍🫀
Brent I hope you can forgive me.
I've wanted to do this and I ain't done it yet
Fabulous Custard Guardians you've printed at the end there.
My housemate just nearly split one of my ears open, squealing, at the sight of the Custodes. Thank you ever so much.
Honestly, 40K was the first thing I thought about when 3d printing came out.
Same here lol I only printed terrain and stuff and still feel like that’s okay since it was not licensed items made
GWs prices alone increasing beyond reasonable inflation is the reason that pushed me into buying a few recast
And now I’m even looking into a 3D Printer (I play DnD and enjoy painting fantasy models also not just WH)
P.S. That Nid is sexy
Sounds like it would be a great hobby supplement for you then, Thomas! Have fun :)
This is my first time seeing your channel, was thinking about getting a 3D printer so I thought I’d check out some videos found yours and in my opinion, very informative and entertaining. Thank you. Dennis
Came back to this video after a year and it's still relevant. Great delivery too :D
My teenager: "Mom. I really want to try playing Warhammer. It looks so cool!"
Me: "You best go get a job then. I'm not made out of money..."
recasts
Warning: getting a job could not be enough to afford GW recent prices. You must actually be made of money to afford this hobby
And it gonna cost arm and leg
I remember getting my first box set when i was like 10, My father came home with it after work, but I couldnt have it until I did the dishes, lol, R.I.P Dad, Semper Fi, Happy Memorial Day.
even with a job you can't afford it any more ha ha
I’m pretty sure I’ve read somewhere that “you don’t need minis to play 40k, you just need something to represent the model”
We used green army men for imperial guard units. Works like a charm.
that got dropped after 3rd edition.
@@Marinealver what a coincidence. thats right around the time I left because they were clearly starting to use the brand to rip people off.
*gets the Halo megablocks models*
It's not like GW has had two decades of not overpricing the fuck out of their products. It was inevitable that this would happen.
Quite honestly, when I go to my LGSs, either GW official or third party, and wach and every single one of them tells me "we gotta wait 2-3 weeks for a response of GW that tells us how many boxes we'll get"… only local option is a 3d print shop. And I'm gonna take that
With the shit GW's pulling especially with Fan Animations I think they're inadvertently pushing people to try and find other ways to grab models besides officially.
Indeed! And just out of spite too! Scummy companies deserve to be treated as such.
Honestly I’d encourage more 3D printing so GW starts pulling down their prices. What’s unethical is how they treat their consumers. I find it weird how a majority of the community will call this out for being unethical, and then do a 180 and complain about GW business decisions and gradual price markups as models fall in and out of production. Well this is the solution people. Once the inflated demand via scarcity for buying their overpriced models decreases, the price will decrease and demand will rise again. Not that it has to ALWAYS be cheaper than 3D printing, as long as it’s a reasonable price and it remains convenient. The reason so many people don’t 3D print is not just because of cost, but convenience. You’re not just dumping money in, you’re dumping time. It’s technically a skill since you have to learn how to use new software and scour the internet for templates. The quality of the print might even be bad. There’s plenty of things that can go wrong. The simple convenience of knowing that you can purchase a model, and be certain that it won’t come looking like a plastic tumor but almost what it looks like on the box is convenient.
Now some people don’t care about quality, but that’s a whole other box of assholes. It sucks to play against someone with a bunch of unpainted monstrosities when the point is to retain somewhat of the atmosphere.
And it’s not as if they only make money through models, despite it being their primary thing. You can still choose to support GW financially by purchasing the Codex’s, books, merchandise, plenty of other things.
Supply and demand. If GW can't meet the demand, they don't deserve to function as a company. Charging too much for your product is not meeting demand, and the cost of making 3d plastic models continues to drop like crazy. As such the price of models should also be dropping. As they aren't, or are going up, we just know GW is price gouging like crazy.
@@gaberielpendragon the biggest problem is as the company has grown so has its unproductive management, this is the same for almost all companies. Unfortunately growing management are very expensive, don't produce revenue and are seen as necessary by management, you will never hear this from a management consultant!, this ends up with higher prices, fewer productive staff with a greater workload, this has been the way for decades, and is so entrenched it has become the system, the whole social/business model would have to change to fix this and I don't see that happening any time soon, so let's enjoy the high prices ripping us off!!.
@@CrusaderSports250 or be intelligent consumers and force them to change. Moving to 3d printing models is one way to do that and still pay the game. Other options include finding another game to play.
Consumers support that poor management style by continuing to buy.
The third option is to sue them to force change. Of which anyone can do, shareholders will have more avenues to do so.
I only 3d print what I have extras of.
The Deathwing Command Squad for terminators come with with the backup sprues for the Deathwing Knights and regular old terminators. Buying 10 more bodies and using the extra parts is great.
My local game store (not official GW but a partner) doesn't allow 3d printed models because the owner relies on us buying the models so he can pay his bills. I think its a completely fair point and I hadn't thought about it like that before. He does allow conversions/poses using 3d printers but they have to be a good amount of GW plastic.
in the case of units that have no models/kits, then yes 3d printing is completely fair and should be encouraged
if Gw want to fight 3D printing then Open more stores and lower the god damn price's
Opening stores would cost a lot of money, so how would they make more money by lowering their prices?
@@omegonchris I don't know the exact economic terms for it, but you can make more money by lowering prices depending on demand and purchasing power of potential buyers.
If someone has $50 to spend on a product, but it is too expensive for them to buy it even though the company could sell it at $50 and make a profit, than that is lost profit. If there are enough of these potential buyers, than that could easily make up for any reduction in profit from lowering price, and even increase the companies profits.
@@omegonchris online sales only, seriously who doesn't have the internet. They would then make all the profits too and not need to split it with stores.................. so ehh.
@@rylandrc dead weight loss as a result of shortage
@@omegonchris Keep in mind that for them to make the models is not that expensive. It costs the base cost to get it designed and the mold made. After that its just the resource cost and the manufacture costs.
They are marking up well beyond 100%. Like WAY above 100%
This is Games Workshop were talking about. They'll come after you just for doodling a space marine in your notebook.
That name though
no they wont, but feel free to keep thinking that,
They won't... until you upload it to reddit.
Then why is there a crap ton of space marine fanart all over the internet? Yeah GW can be (and often is) scummy, but blowing things out of proportion helps no one.
@@tempestvenator9809 it's called a joke
I just got into 40k yet I am already an amateur at 3d printing which completely changes the affordatbility of the hobby. I don't have to spend money and can practice painting whenever I want, which is a huge thing
Great vid, expert commentary and concise relevant points. Liked it a lot. Thanks
If GW would lower their overpriced merch by 50% people wouldn't want to "pirate" their stuff. Easy fix.
Peytr Baelish - GW hasn't dropped their prices on any of their merch since they came into existence - one of the rare examples of a business that has only increased it's price while decreasing the number of models in a pack (I remember you used to be able to buy 10 SM in a box set, now you get 5). Their philosophy is simple, "If you want to play our game you MUST play with our minis, no exception - and that means you'll pay whatever we ask for them."
Piracy is allways a supply issue.
They sell to distributors for around 50% of retail price. Which is still a lot when you compare to, say, plastic historicals or Northstar kits.
@Bao Thuy Yep, and they've always been expensive.
@@Spirit612 Risking getting political but this is just how capitalism works. That's how they keep raising their profits, if they lower prices it might seem like a failing move to the shareholders, aka the product isn't selling, so they might pull funding. It's the cursed cycle of needing constant growth.
I don’t know why GW doesn’t just sell the files for money online,its another way to make money.
I think that's their "Hail Mary" play and will only use it as a last option.
You know they'd be undercut by a far better made fan model
Because then someone can buy those files and share them? There's absolutely no way to make files that work on currently available printers that can't be shared.
@@ProtesttheAntagonist they can make proprietary software and files incompatible with anything else. You could still pirate it, but pirating software is much harder than files
@@ProtesttheAntagonist that's a stupid take because people already create and share the files and gw doesn't make any money on it already
This is a question coming from a newb here. Was heavy into warhammer as a kid and just getting back into it now as an adult almost twenty years later. After buying a starter pack for painting, all my paints for various colour schemes and some orks I've ran into the dilemma of all that being the same price as a affordable resin printer. I am considering buying the resin printer for printing for any nerdy stuff I want to paint, including warhammer. I am primarily into painting right now, but once I get into the swing of that again I will definetely want to get into playing. While I will probably be buying official models for a proper army, this will take forever. What if I printed proxies for a private army to find a club and play there, am I going to be derided for doing so or can I expect other players to do the same when it isn't for an official tournament?
As 3D scanners become better and better, eventually there will be very good .stl files of GW figures out there in internet land. That coupled with the fact that resin printers are becoming better, cheaper, and easier to use will cause GW to have a day of reckoning; either change with the times or go broke.
It reminds me of movies on VHS: Back in the 80's and early 90's it was very common practice to own two VHS VCRs, rent a movie, and copy it for one's personal use. Even though the quality was sometimes lacking, it was cheaper than buying a movie on VHS. Buying movies on VHS was in fact very rare during that time because they were VERY expensive, like $150 in today's money. When Titanic was set to come out on VHS in 1997 James Cameron said "I will sell so to cheap no one will bootleg it" and sold the movie on a two-tape set for under $25... and it flew off the shelves. People could have a quality of the real thing for a reasonable price and none of the hassle and expense of renting and duplicating. The rest of the movie industry quickly followed suit and buying movies became very common.
So what will GW do? Sell stl files? Could they use some sort of block chain technology to keep people from distributing the files illegally?
I feel, fuck GW. I wanted to get back into the hobby after 10 or so years only to find out Warhammer Fantasy was kaput and I can no longer buy a Bretonnian army for a fair price.
Check out kings of war by mantic games. They are a group of people who left GW to make there own company, because screw GW. They have awesome stuff for reasonable prices.
love the kaput part
I’d also recommend excellent miniatures empires of man. Probably the best 3D printed minis I’ve seen but they’re a smaller scale
*implying the original price was fair to begin with*
Well, yeah, but also the models were always too expensive for what they were. I suspect the tabletop game is going to peter out anyway, GW can't seem to make new versions fun anymore and the videogames are really taking off.
Hey Danny, thanks for showing off my glamorous Warlord! Great discussion, unbiased and informative. Loved it!
Glorious, glamorous, and wonderfully made! Thank you for sharing in the first place - and thanks for the comment, Kyosai!
@@3DPrintedTabletop Also great format, would love to see more of it. I can tell that you put way too much time into making this, but damn does it make for great content. Keep it up!
That bling bling looks awesome! Do you have more stuff like this (like Insta or smth)?
Beautiful work
@@mickif Hey thanks! You can find me here: instagram.com/kyosaiii/
I'm in the "let GW go out of business". I spend more money on buy-ins and food at my local comic shop than anything else. We keep these games alive. We play multiple editions, including ones that aren't the most current. We iterate on and homebrew those constantly. We generate new models constantly. We make this game. And not having specific names and imagery locked behind IP would improve it. Not limit it. And it would keep the money inside the community. Instead of siphoned off to shareholder pockets.
Do you have a 2018 Slaanesh Noise Marine stl. file? Im not playing chaos but i like this model and want to print it and paint it for my desk in big.
"C-level execs make a dollar, Workers make a dime, and that's why the worker poos on company time."
I noticed going to lunch one day a bunch of guys stopping to wash up before punching out. Guy told me " I got my hands dirty for them so they can pay for me to clean them".
Close, but not quite: If a C-level exec makes a dollar, a worker makes about 1/3 of a cent. We wouldn't have the problems with income inequality we do today if it was the way you said.
Asian dad: C-level? Why you no A-level?!? :{
@@DirtPoorWargamer That dime is made by Workers. The collective whole, not the representative individual.
@@BardedWyrm If that's the case, less ambiguous verbiage should have been used. If we interpret the use of a plural to mean collectively, then we should do the same with "C-level execs" (plural). In that case, it's still wrong and my original comment is still closer to the truth of it.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts ❤️ that outro appearance though haha
Only possible thanks to folks like you sharing your thoughts on proxies and 3D printing beforehand, Emil. Gotta give credit here: The outro was Mitch's idea :D
Thanks! 😂
Master is here
@@bikinibandit2398 they are friends you know that right?
nice RT shout-out. I was introduced to GW and 40K in 1995. I was drawn to the models, being a modelist. the rules were just gravy, since there was a game and purpose to this. my friend lent me all his books going back to RT. he was a horrible painter, but bought every single model from out LGS. Maybe I'll get a 3D printer and print up some Squatlings or a Genestealer Cult. good times, back when we had lead.
Bro this thumbnail got me, I had to make a double take to make sure John Oliver / Legal Eagle hadn't done a warhammer video 😂
Print your Warhammer, it’s always morally ok
Bad time to 3D print 40k models : never.
Good time to 3D print 40k models : all the time.
3D print everything.
3d print more 3d printers!
Honestly, that isn't too farfetched! @@googiegress7459
I think it would be cool to buy a GW kit, scan it, then alter it with your own custom parts that have equivalent stats but just have a little extra uniqueness to them. As long as a GW set is purchased and is not sold, there is no loss in profit. There is also something to be said about the terrain options here; I think that 3d printed terrain is fair game overall.
For example, maybe you want to make a tau army where the armor opens up a little bit and have some space for a micro LED strip to make your armor and weapons glow through the cracks, or something. I don't really see the difference between this and using hand-drills to install them, right? Also, after TTS, I have zero empathy for the company.
I've never bought a 3d printer or really had a major desire. But you talking about Mordheim made me really miss that game. I've tried doing an internet search but finding people making those miniatures is difficult.
Print and distribute it as "warmallet 39k"
Battleaxe 4,000
fork 6000
Battlemace 4,000,000
Battlemallet 4-TK
Peacescythe 4M
Really strange to hear anyone even partly defending GW. It is so questionable how they treat all their IPs, and by god they got enough money already. Print whatever you want.
There's two ways to look at this: 1) They need to legally protect their IP or risk just losing it to anyone with a 3D printer, no fault in that - they're a company, they need to secure their bottom line. 2) If they're worried about 3D printing, the solution is easy - give the consumer a better deal. There's no reason these models are as expensive apart from "because they know they can".
Wasn't the whole computer-calculated spru arrangement meant to reduce costs and make things more efficient? None of that cost reduction and efficiency got transferred to the customer. That's a strike right there.
Good video but I have only ONE QUESTION: Where TF can I find stl file for Weird Al Tankovic?!?!?!? I've been searching, but can't find. I MUST have it!!!! :D
I wanna start by printing a custom army (have this whole idea for a small custom sector with heresy and titans) so I can learn to thin the paints cut and customize. Then we might get a few GW models
Never played Warhammer, and after watching this video, I never will. If the playerbase is honestly so incredibly toxic as to put down others for not spending thousands of dollars on stupid injection molded plastic, that's a playerbase I'd never want to be a part of.
Yeah well... things don't just pop in to existence. Somebody has to design and market the products. I understand your point too and I definitely agree that prices sound bloated. There are so many ways to pull more revenue from other goods and services related to this hobby that I wonder why GW doesn't diversify or license .STL files for "tournament legal" use. I'm also not a player but I have 3d printed for years now.
I mean..noone is forcing you. Though it does beg the question of whats the value of informing the rest of us, or what you are doing in this thread if you have no skin in the game.
Im sure you are dying to know that I have decided never to eat a watermelon when skiing, for example .
@@GM-vt6is Don't you think turning away potential new fans does concern the hobby? They showed enough interest to step foot here, but after this experience you'll just have one more person saying the community is toxic.
A community without fresh blood is destined to die of a gradual death as the old guard age. Not everyone has the time and money to be buying an entire army and spending 100s of hours painting before getting engrossed in it. But maybe if new people were treated with more respect, more people would be interested in joining the community and gradually build armies up to your standard.
@@bananatrain5047 This person seems to have already made up their mind.
The community isnt 'toxic ' and the word gets thrown around quite a lot these days anyway for the silliest of reasons. Truth is, people have changed- into crybabies.
I remember going to a GW store to try a co-op game with a friend. Brought a very thematic, non cheesy list..got force -paired (dont ask) with a guy who fielded only space wolf dreads..naturally we got stomped. It deterred me from going into that particular store again, but not the hobby or from finding other players. I just changed my tactics, so to speak, as there are other places to find and vet players. My point being, even if you had a bad experience, you can always talk to people and overcome it, not judge tens of thousands of players based on superficial information.
Warhammer especially is a great example of the idea that 'if you want to reap the benefits, you have to put in the time' - a logical but bad proposal in a generation grown on everything being easy, one-use, and disposable.
I can’t verify this, I’m too lazy to google it, but I’ve heard that according to British law if GW doesn’t defend their IP they can lose it.
yes thats true
'Defend it or lose it' is, so far as I'm aware, broadly true of Trademark IP (but not copyright or patent) across much of the world, as roughly standardized by international treaty.
Same for most. Once you let one person do it and get away with it, you give up the right to sue the next person
I don't like the attitude brits take towards intellectual IPs, but when in reference to how the *internet* works, yes it's true, you gotta defend it before it's stolen from you.
I just don't like a *government* saying those words.
Nah issue is that GW's overpriced crap(The Models Only) is not protected by copyright under UK law but by design rights. Design rights last a maximum of 25Years and after that anyone can produce the models after providing GW with a statement of intent. This is why GW never ever fight in a UK court and also why primaris marines exist.
Rocking the full windsor! Good video.
"In addition, we can, and do, defend our intellectual property rigorously against imitators, thus ensuring that our worlds are synonymous with quality"
I'd love to see that one stand in court.. You can't own Orcs, Elves and Demons GW. Reading that just pissed me right off.
Behold, my Brothers. These fools think they can stop the 3D Printing Revolution. Let us show them how futile their efforts are. RESIN FOR THE RESIN GOD!
It almost feels like GW pays people off to make such bullshit propaganda videos.
SUPPORTS FOR THE SUPPORT THRONE
SUPPORT MATERIAL FOR THE SUPPORT MATERIAL THRONE!
@@alecmiller5296 LMFAO. i posted my comment before expanding the replys. Good job sir!
@Patrick Swan Thingiverse and MyMiniFactory have a huge amount of free files, but it your looking for high quality sculpts, then you'll have to spend some time searching. My wife and I have backed a few STL collections on Kickstarter (including Danny's Lost Dragons, and Lost Adventure). I haven't seen a single poor quality collection yet (not saying there aren't any, but that I haven't seen one).
On a side note, check out the Nafarrate collection on Kickstarter. He's running one now, and we've backed several of his projects before. His collections are top notch. Not Warhammer 40k stuff though. It's fantasy stuff.
"... ensuring that our worlds are synonymous with quality." Have they heard of Finecast? :D
Or seen 90% of licenced games!
Yeah, exactly. We haven't gotten any good licensed games since DOW 1
@@theblackbaron4119 Nah, DoW2 was fine too. Not as good, but still not bad
@@theblackbaron4119 tww1 and 2 are good games
@@ThatGuy-eu2vt Total War Warhammer 3 is looking to be pretty lit too.
GW could just choose to go the way of Dungeons and Dragons and Wizards of the Coast and focus on printed material, and accessory kits for personalizing models. It would save them a LOT of money in legal fees.
Where can I get the custodian guard files you those ones that are slightly less armoured