American Kenpo Strikes vs American Tang Soo Do | Strikes
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2019
- #Kenpo #TangSooDo #Senseiichi
Welcome to episode 2 of our 3 part series "American Tang Soo Do vs. American Kenpo.
In the previous episode Dan from ART OF ONE DOJO and I discussed TSD blocks vs. Kenpo blocks to see how similar and yet different our styles blocks really are.
I was surprised to see they weren't too different. In today's episode we discuss our styles strikes and you'll see some similarities but at the same time, many differences.
Check out it and stay tuned for the final episode airing next week!
Art of one dojo: / @artofonedojo
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I love you guys are doing this together and friendly. It is also refreshing that you are not opposed to admitting you don't know everything about another art. I did not know much about Tang Soo Do, and while I still don't I am getting spoon fed small amounts of information from your channel, so thank you for your hard work on these videos. Also you are hilarious, stand up comic Ichi!
Of course, I've gained a new friend from this series.
I'm so happy and elated with your kind words. I am humbled and I hope that you continue to learn as much as possible about Tang Soo Do from watching my channel. Thank you for commenting and thank you for digging my sense of humor. I try!
One of my favorite techniques that I learned in Kenpo is the knuckle rake down the bridge of the nose. It can break the nose water the eyes and you can either put some distance between you and your attacker and escape or be able to finish the fight.
As a former Shotokan guy from the 1980s, got back into martial arts in the for of Tang Soo recently here in Ireland.
Love this channel, please reinvigorate this channel, best Tang Soo channel here!
TSD is Shotokan's younger brother, so to speak, so your transition should've been smooth.
I'm enjoying this series; I studied both styles for years.
At the end of the day, I have to go with Kenpo. I went from being a black belt in TSD to being a white belt in Kenpo, and I honestly remember thinking, "What have I been doing all this time?" Both systems taught me a lot, but I didn't start flourishing as a martial artist until I started studying Kenpo. However, there are a few TSD kicks that are superior to Kenpo. The back kick in Kenpo is hard on the kicker's spine (could just be the way we taught it; never could convince the head instructor to modify it).
Also, thank you SO much for pronouncing "Tang" correctly. It grates on my ears when I hear people pronounce it like the old astronaut drink lol.
This series is enjoying you watching it! How long did you study each for and where?
Awww I couldn't get you to turn to the Tang soo do side of the force aye?? Hey to each his own, I'm glad you found something you truly enjoy and feel comfortable with. I hope you take the best of both and flourish in your martial arts training for years to come.
HAH that's funny that you say that. It's one of the most cringey things to hear TAAAANG. Tang was around before the drink damnit!
Always look at a new style/art with the eyes of a white belt. I learned a long time ago that if you come to a new form with your preconceived notions it can interfere with learning new things. White belt mentality and learn from the bottom up even if you've reached the top elsewhere theres still new summits. 💪🏻🥋👍🏻
@@WireHedd That's what im talking about, thats the attitude i like.
@@SenseiIchi I'm curious, why do you call yourself SENSEI instead of Sa Bu Nim (I'm not sure if that's the correct term) ??? I understand that Tang Soo Do has Japanese and Chinese origins but I still think it should use Korean terms... I'm just curious.
PS: Ando Mierzwa supposedly teaches a form of Kung Fu but he wears a Japanese style Gi and calls himself Sensei , so you aren't the only one
@@slappingvegans7940 I used the handle "Sensei Ichi" because it was a catchy sounding tag name and because I am half Japanese and felt like using a Japanese term to go with my Japanese last name. Sensei Ichi rolls of the tongue better.
Hello Sensei, loving this series..... finding it super fascinating since I studied Kenpo and my 3rd grader has been learning Tang Soo Do since before Kindergarten.....love both of your channels....a comment I’d like to make regarding the vertical punch is what was taught to me in Kenpo .....I was taught the orientation of your hands and strikes often is dictated by what is most damaging to the target....for instance horizontal strikes to the torso being most effective there and orienting stomach strikes upwardly at 45 or so degrees to direct force inside the rib cage ..... as it pertains to the vertical punch, I was taught a vertical fists top 2 knuckles fit better in an eye socket than horizontal and thus more damaging to an attacker.
Also regarding the inserts, it isn’t so much that they are secondary, Kenpo makes good use of plethora of hand techniques, what I felt Dan didn’t convey was the inserts are added little damage makers in between the main movements in the technique..... for example recently I was watching my daughter learn to armbar an attacker from a shoulder grab by wrapping her arm over the top of their arm and swinging it under their arm and apply upward pressure, then kick their knee....this reminded me of the same technique in Kenpo, the difference being inserts... the Kenpo method starts the same but as your arm travels under their arm you would “insert” a glancing knuckle strike in an attempt to break a rib on the way to the arm bar, then “insert” a punch to the face from under their arm to both try and hit them and execute an elbow break from the arm bar... two maybe three inserts in the same technique (rib break, face punch, elbow break)....this is some of the slap happy Dan was referring to
Thank you chewie!
This series is perfect for you then, brings the whole family together right?!
The vertical punch makes sense, kind of like the boxers hook punch changes from vertical hand to horizontal. We train hitting with the first two knuckles on the punch as well but I've never heard of the theory of the two knuckles being better to fit into the eye socket... Thats gnarly.
I can see how the inserts as "fillers" makes sense. It's like making a series of small chops with an axe into a trip, preparing to strike the final blow. All of which are terrible and damaging, but they're meant to be build up techniques right?
Sensei Ichi ....yes....incremental movements along the path of the main movement....in a way it’s a mentality that what you are doing is likely to miss (your opponent won’t be standing still after all)...so the little techniques are a sort of insurance ...doing 5 things instead of one or two increases the odds something will hurt the bad guy...the fillers are subtle and the movements are layered...another example is I was taught to try to step on your opponents feet when advancing 99% of the time you’ll miss but when you catch them you’ve sort of screwed them...another example of the layering is a beginner technique for a lapel grab (say their left hand) you trap their hand against your chest with your left, punch their face under their arm with your right to hit their face and break their elbow, reverse your punching hand and backfist their floating rib to break that, raise your fist by your ear and rake down on the broken arm in a hammer to chamber against your belly, while simultaneously executing a left hand heal palm to their face that will yanked toward you by the raking right hand, then upward chop to the neck from the chamber, then another heal palm to the face with the left.... sounds crazy, but takes about a second or two to do and somethings gonna hit AND you’ve been working the broken arm moving it and hitting it causing more damage....filler, filler, filler...layer, layer, layer....failsafe, failsafe, failsafe....this is some of the slap happy Dan was referring to
@@SenseiIchi The inserts are basically unwritten but you literally "insert" them when you see an opportunity. They can be minor or major strikes. For example, some of the common ones. we have a techniques that's a defense against a rear choke and we step out in a way that captures their arms and twists them so we can deliver a front kick to blow out one of their legs. Many of us like to "insert" a sweep during that footwork because the opportunity is there. Also, a technique off a two hand push, we do a version of a double outward block (similar to your knife hand) and deliver a palm strike to their ribs. My instructor used to love to insert an eye slice when bringing the hands back to load for that palm heel strike, simply because it was there.
The concept of our inserts are just putting shots and strikes when we see the opportunity. This also tends to score brownie points during testing if you can do the technique and add some additional stuff in there like that :)
Chewie...Are you describing "Wrap Around" by chance? Is this Tracy Kenpo? That was the first technique I ever learned and it was at a Tracy Kenpo school. Ed Parker Kenpo has similar wrap around techniques but they come way later in the belt levels.
Art of One Dojo ....honestly I’m fuzzy on the lineage when I started Kenpo as you know Kenpo has a fractured history .... I studied Kenpo twice first when 19 in San Diego from an ex navy seal student of Parker Linekin who was a student of Brian Adams who was a student of Ed Parker....it was called American Kenpo but is WKKA instead of Grandmaster Parker’s IKKA.....my second bout with Kenpo was more clear...i was 32 in Minnesota getting fat and decided to study again and found a school run by a student of Ralph Castro ISKA ( International Shaolin Kenpo Association) who in turn was from Hawaii and a student Great Grandmaster William K. S. Chow alongside Ed Parker..... When Grandmaster Parker and Grandmaster Castro left Hawaii it was Grandmaster Parker who promoted Grandmaster Castro to his first black belt... so let’s just say I’m a non practicing mutt Kenpo practitioner father of a future Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan black belt...lol.... I don’t remember what the technique i described was called I learned it 30 years ago as a yellow belt...but I have been following your channel which has been been wonderful and thank you for it
At our dojang we practice their “vertical” punch. We call it an inverted center punch and usually as a reverse technique.
Sensei Ichi, what do you think of teachers who humble themselves to be the student of a another school art in the pursuit of becoming a better martial artist,(like Bruce Lee did) and to see what their own art can integrate to make their own art better? What you think of weapons-based systems, and Grappling Arts such as Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Wrestling, etc?
Are you a cop?!
I think it's great! I think once one has mastered an art, it is a great thing to continue ones martial art education and to pursue knowledge of another art. I did that with Jujistu, Shotokan and Krav maga. It only made my Tang Soo Do better, I took the best of all and applied it to my Tang Soo Do students and my own training. It was truly humbling after 27 years of being a black belt putting on a white belt in Jujitsu and being a brand new student again. Brought me back down to earth and realized I knew nothing, emptied my cup and started all over again.
To be a true master of death I think being educated with weapons, stand up and ground, that is the trifecta. In real self defense there will be stand up, ground and possibly weapons involved. For someone to only know one, they're not truly prepared for whatever is to come. I feel in this day and age we must train weapons defense ( gun, blunt object, bladed weapon), most fights end on the ground so knowing jujitsu (sport & japanese) is extremely important. Definitely training for all three made me feel more confident and comfortable, it changed my outlook on the martial arts for sure.
Thank you for asking, these are great questions.
Love the snapping backfist myself. 💪🏻🥋👍🏻
Awesome video's guys super cool amazing technique.
Thank you so much! Have you checked out Dan's video yet?
@@SenseiIchi, Yes Sir. That I have both of You are amazing. I'm currently in tang soo do as well. Moo bak style.
@@davidpiper7578 That's great, thank you so much. That's rad, where do you train?
@@SenseiIchi American Martial arts academy
David Piper where is that located ?
Sensei Ichi, can you include a video with Mr. McMeekin as he has a Kenpo background too!
I could try, he lives far from me and doesn't have a youtube channel like Dan.
Love Ep2 fella’s. A lot of similarities from both forms around strikes.
We don’t have the Wing Chun like vertical punch that Kenpo has in their arsenal.
We are chop-a-ho-lics as well in our form.
Really looking forward to the kicks episode.
See if you boys can get your leg up?! 🤭🤪
Thank you ! Gotta love them chops right?!
Oh I can get my leg up, I can even get my leg up on the local competition...
LOL don’t forget to do your warm up stretches well, don’t want to have your ego write a cheque that your body doesn’t want to cash!!
I demonstrate the core main Kenpo kicks, which are usually around belt level. We have high kicks and such but they aren't present in most of our self defense techniques. As far as the jump spinning stuff, I did a lot of that in my youth and I can do it again if I can borrow some of space X's rocket boosters :P
I’m sure Mr Dan, given enough incentive you could crane kick some mofo 🤪🤭.
Loving this sharing guys, and happy to be apart of your individual journeys to build a more accepting, open and collaborative platform for martial arts to thrive.
@@woodtiger1411 hey im not that old! almost, but not yet.
Which styles strikes do you relate to more?
Kenpo all day
Somewhere in the middle. Palm heel strikes is one of the first strikes we teach. Teach hitting with the outside of the forearm more then the inside.
Coming from a traditional TKD school, my first reaction was we have more in common with TSD, as TSD was a parent art of TKD buuuuut, we do many of the strikes Dan mentions including some that you said you don't do. We have forearm strikes (I used to use that as a power break at tournaments - 7 or 8 boards with a dropping forearm strike) plus the vertical oriented punches that get introduced in the intermediate grades. We also have a hooking vertical punch, with the palm out and the striking knuckles are down.
Spear hands, ridge hands, palm strikes - these are all intermediate techniques as well. We teach them to beginners, and they begin appearing in forms in the intermediate ranks.
I'm curious to see what part three brings - I'm guessing it's going to be on kicking - TSD should have a lot in common with my TKD style, it will be interesting to see what sort of kicking variations Kenpo does, and what sort of jumping kicks they do. Jumping kicks are not terrible practical in most cases, but the Korean arts really stress the flying kicks. We have quite a few basic kicks - the front, side, round (we do ball of the foot for the weapon), back, hook, twist kick, inward and outward vertical and crescent kicks (the vertical and crescent kicks being the same motions, but one is one waist/chest level, the other to the head) plus axe and stomp kicks, that's 10 or 12 (if you count the crescent and vertical kicks as one, or as two different kicks.) Then we have 3 jumping versions for most of our kicks, and stationary, where both feet leave the ground simultaneously and you jump vertically and kick a target ahead of you. Our regular jumping kick - in which the rear leg provides lift off while the front leg kicks, which is a little bit of a travelling kick - and then reverse jumping, in which the rear leg provides the lift off and the body rotates so that the rear leg is also the kicking leg - these are our "flying" kicks, as they cover more ground and generally equate to more powerful kicks given the body rotation and momentum. It could be argued we have a fourth iteration the "jumping back" versions, but those are essentially vertical kicks where you push off backward as you kick, the idea being that you would gain some distance from an advancing opponent before kicking them.
Of course there are jumping spinning kicks too - jumping spinning back kicks, side kicks, hook (wheel) kicks, vertical (crescent) kicks, jumping spinning round kick... lots of flash, cool for demos, but very impractical in combative use.
@@thefightingsasquatch We learn and practice some jumping kicks but no where near as much as TSD or TKD. We have them, but our defense techniques never use them and you only really see them in sparring so I didn't really go over those. I keep mainly to the core kicks we use in combat.
Hi sensei you got pick up that vertical punch lovely strick to have won't tell anyone you robbed it from kenpo 👊
My son is now calling this series of videos "The Itchy and Slappy Show" a la The Simpsons 🤪
WireHedd hahah yessss! That’s what I like to hear
HA! LOVE IT! That's SUPER clever! Isn't that right Itchy?
I'm the real "SLAPPY"
Sensei ichy 😁
ichi
American kenpo striking method's are circular and linear. And relies on footwork and hip rotation & generation for power placement and effective penetration. Most martial arts has their power placement method's. Kenpo is very unique in its own way when it comes power distribution. Even from a step shuffle the power itself distributed from the waist and hip in unison. And doesn't relies on traditional horse stances for power placement and releases (theirs nothing wrong with it from). It was created for the purpose of effective street combat. And footwork is always the key behind every technique used.
Kenpo is more refined mechanics of motion. American Kenpo is much more involved, it incorporates Chinese and Japanese movements. You know Quanfa and Karate.
Snake Eyes Tang soo do also incorporates Chinese and Japanese annnd Korean movements . So much that it’s name (Tang Soo Do ) translates to the way of the China/Chinese hand. Just sayin just sayin
@@SenseiIchi Kenpo (and Quanfa) translate to "Fist Law". KENPO: IT'S THE LAW!!!!!!!
@@SenseiIchi :P
For jabs and crosses i prefer the Horizontal Fist. But for hooks i prefer a vertical fist..
See we do that as well in that context. When we do double punches to the stomach we usually go vert but to the face its generally horizontal.
@@SenseiIchi when i would train punching hard objects with thin gloves no padding. My pinky side of my fist felt safer this way. To avoid the Boxer's Fracture.
@@214warzone Makes sense
Imagine Korean kicks with KEMPO. Oh yeah Professor Oyama already did that. Kyokushin Kai kempo jutsu. 🐯
Are you just trolling my channel now?
American kenpo incorporates boxing techniques I would say I trained in taekwondo and trained with people in tang soo do which Tang soo do was closer to my taekwondo my techniques that I learned from kenpo the boxing techniques gave me an advantage over the Tang soo do and taekwondo besides my background in Brazilian jiu-jitsu and Japanese jujitsu I started to incorporate more of Bruce Lee philosophy of no style the style or system is a start but from what I come to realize that systems give you a glass ceiling after a while it's a great start both American kenpo and Tang-soo-do eventually the progression has to be one of no system when I went at with people with MMA taiboxing Brazilian ju-jitsu I did OK in some cases but neither worked on leg kicks which left me at a disadvantage now I have the bas training system the targets on this machine are set up with targets low and high to work high and low kicks and my free standing bag as well I use to but it's the person not style in which your dealing with
Sensi ichi and dan can you have a sparring match some time
We do live states away, but I'll see what I can do. I have been meaning to go to Disneyworld...
@@SenseiIchi I got my Mickey ears ready! :D
@@ArtofOneDojo Lets go!
You guys should spar using SHIDOKAN TRIATHLON rules... I'll be the referee
@@slappingvegans7940 Alright i'll see you there or i'll see you at another time...
Actually kenpo has all them chops as well
I had a feeling there was more than meets the eye when it comes to dem chops. Thank you for sharing
It does, but almost all of our chops go to the neck area. There are body shots, but they are much less common. There are other ways we deliver them too, but I kept it to what we teach in the white belt level as this is a beginner/intermediate comparison.
@@SenseiIchi We do, but the core of our blocks go to the neck and usually hammer or whip. We do have other variations but they are much less common.
@@ArtofOneDojo Maybe some day i'll see all these techniques you speak of. I mean by now I'm practically a what, purple belt?
@@SenseiIchi We could so talk about the techniques, they are almost a college study course in terms of the detail that can be pulled out of them (a little too much sometimes). Kenpo sometimes gets criticized for having TOO much curriculum, mainly because of a list of more than 150 pre-choreographed sequences that are in the belt requirements. They are easy to "learn" (memorize) and perform, but they take years to actually learn to breakdown and analyze. Plus schools often put their own spin and ideas and teach them differently.
Here is the very first Self Defense techniques White belts learn. It's a few basic steps, but you can see the early level of detail in the explanation. The technique isn't MEANT to be performed exactly this way in real life. It's like learning a new vocabulary and seeing it used in a sample sentence. These techniques are the sample sentences and teach how the "vocabulary" is used.
¿Donde está la biblioteca?
In delayed sword, it teaches some early power principles, body placements, basic strikes (including using our block as a strike and chopping to the neck as I mentioned in the episode). It also teaches the first 3 steps that EVERY Kenpo technique has. The 3 rules. 1) establish your base/balance, 2) neutralize the immediate attack, 3) cancel a body dimension (height, width, depth). Every technique does these things in this order, but sometimes they can happen at the same time (you can neutralize and cancel a zone at the same time, or establish your base while neutralizing the attack at the same time).
It seems like a really complicated way to learn martial arts...because it is lol. But there is a TON of thought and information embedded in these sequences. After 26 years I'm still taking things apart and learning, it's a lifetime study.
th-cam.com/video/1Dmpf38nBD0/w-d-xo.html
Hi senie Dan I train in Okinawa ti shurin ryu karate