It always turns me off when there’s an issue of The Immortal Hulk that isn’t penciled by Joe Bennett. He’s pencilled most of the series, but one of the most important arcs (Hell arc) was done by someone else, and after being spoiled with his grotesquely unique and frightening art, it’s hard to adjust to any other artist.
This is why Marvel always relaunches. #1's are all that matter in making a big spike of money, but their comics seem to lack any staying power. DC, at the least, seems to keep readers on longer...usually anyway.
Marvel has only one current title that's continued past 50 issues. Heck most of them stop at 25, and none of them go past 50, except one. DC doesn't relaunch as much and so have more titles at higher numbers.
This has become my favorite format - it shuts down all those who are exaggerating and those who are suggarcoating everything! For the Avengers title to land on 40'000 sales while holding the name of a set of movies that were amongst the highest grossing in history thus far, it's absolutely ludicrous. I wonder - would Marvel underperform in comparison to DC if they didn't relaunch their titles regularly and bombarded the stores with all the amount of books they publish?
Might be interesting to see what the numbers look like for some movie adaptation comics - pick an IP like Star Wars and see how the films affected comic sales, especially for miniseries that were straight adaptations of the most recent film at the time.
@@crimsondragon18 just keep in mind, there are lies, damn lies and statistics. We've seen how both sides skew the data, and nice to have Perch to be honest and impartial.
These videos are super interesting. I'd love to see you crunch the numbers on an older title like Grant Morrison's Batman run or another long, well respected title. Just to see how the industry has changed over the years.
As a comic fan who pays for the hobby by being an analytics engineer, I love these. The number you are showing as the drop would never be seen in a business meeting, but it's still fun. The unfortunate conclusion, is that no matter how many people say they want long term status quo on books, we see very clearly why that is not a good idea. Over time I'm sure we'll see some outliers (maybe Venom or T4 on Batman). Maybe a PAD book like X-Factor or Hulk would make a good baseline. Fun stuff!
@@uiron5755 for just a fun chat about what's happening, the trendline change from issue 2 to current is great. We're not having monthly meetings on results here. When you do have monthly meetings, you would focus on month-over-month and year-over-year changes to the actuals. This allows comparison across the product line for any given month. The product owner (editor in this case?) or presenter will highlight increases, since churn is normal. Significant churn should be addressed, but the definition of significant is likely to be baked into the culture of the meeting group. They should have break-even numbers, or expected results on some books, that will be used to take action (at 18,000 units bump cover price or cancel, at 40% drop do not renew contracts, for example).
Absolutely fair, and I always appreciate when someone else I respect does data analysis with results which reinforce that I'm not crazy; i.e., 30% and 50% sales drops.
Avengers should be one of the best selling comics each month. You get so many of the Marvel hero's in one comic , I know as a kid Avengers was always best bang for your buck because you got Cap,Thor, Ironman etc all in one comic and the same as DC with justice league.
Marvel, for years, avoided issue #50 s like the plague. Star Wars was the first Marvel series since the first Astonishing X-Men ongoing to do so. Since then, only Old Man Logan and Amazing Spider-Man have reached that milestone. I'm expecting Avengers to end at issue #46 or 47. What's also really interesting about Jason Aaron's Avengers is that it's been doing well in the back issue market, with individual issues usually doubling in value mere months after their initial release. Depending on the success of Enter the Phoenix and its fallout are received they could get hotter.
Can you do one of these videos for Grant Morrison's Green Lantern? They replaced all of their Green Lantern books with his run and I want to see if it was actually financially worth it.
I’m glad you brought up the point about how artists can affect this trend. When it comes to Aaron’s Avengers run, it’s either Ed McGuinness or I ain’t reading it.
See, I feel like ed mcguiness time has come and pass. I feel like the best artist they had on the title were David Marquez and Sara Pichelli. If anything they need to remove him as the "main" artist of the title.
If only someone could dump Diamond's sales numbers for this year online. Edit: Marvels numbers drop so much after the first issue because they flood the shelves with variant covers. Including 1:100 & sometimes 1:500 variants.
How much this out of control variants-for-everything short term cash flow strategy is cannibalizing the potential sales of not only mid to low tier titles (plunging them into oblivion immediately after their debut) but for long running A-list series as well? It's a zero sum game after all, it's not like exploding variants to 3 on average for each single non #1 issue and 10 for #1 issues will not impact on the total amount of "clean" sales (minus variants).
Just went to a comic book store in Bismarck. Manager/Associate said they had their best year yet, with selling independent comics (not DC or Marvel) doing quite a bit of business. However, I do think the store needs more inventory, because they either don't get a good many requests for the titles I want or they get sold out. I only get to this story once every couple of months so. . . . Anyway, Perch have you heard that it's been a good year for many comic book stores?
In your experience Perch, is the spike in #1 sales new customers coming into the shop, seeing it and buying it because it's a #1? Or is it the usual customers buying twice as many copies as normal because it's got a variant cover?
Love these type of videos. Very informative but also exciting seeing the process of data juxtapose to the narrative around the titles. Like piecing a puzzle together. Um...🤔 like, comicbook forensics! 😁👌🏿Lol
Jason Aaron's Avengers isn't that great; it's the very definition of "OK." I'll stick around for the Phoenix storyarc, but I'll probably drop the book after that.
I really do like these sales charts. It's interesting to see how general opinion matches up with the actual sales of each run. If possible, I would like to see how the sales for some runs on particular titles match up with other runs on those same titles. For instance how does Bendis' run on Superman match with Tomasi's? Or how does King's run on Batman match to Snyder's or Tynion's. I'm also curious if these trends exist for only superhero comics or if it matches to trends with comics released by other publishers in the direct market like Image or Boom. Does the trend exist with all comics sold primarily in the direct market? If that is the case how do sales in the book market match up? Do we see similar drops for manga or kid's comics? Granted the sales there are primarily in trades but would we see similar 35%ish drops there? For instance, would we see the same scale of drops for Hero Academy or Kazuishi's Amulet series? Or do sales there hold consistent? Is there a difference in sales drops between say the first 6 issues from the rest of Tom King's Batman and the first volume of his run from the rest?
In my opinion, with only a rare exception here and there, and not in the core Avengers title, The Avengers haven't been The Avengers since Brian Michael Bendis disassembled them. He accomplished that goal far more than I believe even he intended to. Since then, for my money and tastes, no one has "got" The Avengers. I'll just leave it at that. Something needs to be done. I hope, if Marvel decides to reassemble them ( which is what I thought Jason Aaron's run was to be ) again, they'll take time to at least think about it long and broad before they decide exactly how to go about it. I'm not sure Marvel has been giving much thought to anything they've been doing for years. Most things, to me, seem to simply be impulsive and reactive rather than creative and proactive.
I agree 100% with in this.Bendis screw the team forever.They never been the same since Disassemble.No more strong morals creeds and old idealism,The Busiek run was the last worth Avenger run for me.
I don't recall off the top of my head if the maxi-series "Avengers Forever" was before or after BMB's disassembling, but I agree with Evandro that the Busiek / Perez run was the last series of The Avengers where they were.... The Avengers. I'd put "Avengers Forever" in there, too, though. The creators on these two runs really understood The Avengers.
@@timkretzer Avengers Forever was before BMB Avengers.Avengers today is very in the same vibe of MCU films,theres no more old school Avengers.No more moral strong moral fiber and the same idealism.Today anyone can be a Avenger,heck Deadpool was one in Uncanny Avengers.
Keep them coming! Is there any information on how much money a publisher actually makes after everyone is paid? Especially a big name creative vs. low sales..
It would be really interesting to see charts like this for the 70s and 80s. I would suspect that the drop-off percentages during that era were MUCH less, or else titles reaching 200+ would have (theoretically) been near or below zero. Obviously, there is a lower limit that can be reached, so that nothing will ever hit true zero. But the trend line could predict when 0 would be hit if the drop-off were to remain consistent.
Perch, what do you think would boost sales, and why isn’t it being done. I remember before some comic book movie there was an ad for local comic shops (I believe it was DC) that could be found online. Do you think there should be more ads like that before movies? Should there be a link to Marvel.com on Disney+? Should ABC or Hulu or ESPN be broadcasting ads? I’d be interested to hear your (and Joe C.’s) take on getting more readers.
Sometimes, and yes it would count as more units shipped. I don’t believe it has factored into any of the videos I’ve done so far though. I will note it when I hit it.
Most of this was at a time when the Avengers movies were the hottest property on the planet, breaking box office records, on the minds of kids and average Joes everywhere, Avengers merch flying off the shelves, and the comics are selling like this? The only explanation seems to be flabergasting mismanagement by Marvel.
Man, im so glad you do these videos. I all but forgot Jason Arron run on Avengers. Jason Arrons like Coates, Slott, Nick Spencer are a boat load of shite writers. A bunch of SJW nonsense. This is all the fault of the editors. All of them have to be fired. We need Jim Shooter back. If he was here? these guys would have to ship up or be fired! Jason Aaron is an a-hole. He antagonizes his customers. I just got so turned off by his garbage. It's like he hates being the writer for the avengers, and hates more that the fans wanted Iron Man, Cap and Thor. So he went, oh, ok. let me treat them like crap. The constant dress down the trio get from Captain MArvel. The She-Hulk referred to as HULK??! Jason has tons of potential. He's like that star quarterback that just doesn't care to be a quarterback, but a flute player. Again Fire this guy, fire all the editors, fire the editor in chief ( he's in his office watchin anime and food channels) i tried to give it a chance. i want a consistant comic line that aka captain marvel gets rebooted every other week. I just pass on the racks with disgust at the Avengers title, the Captain America title, Iron Man. If they all got half way decent writers? they would be selling off the rack. Again fire the editor in chief, editors, assistant editors and Coats, Slott, Weid
These sales figures don't surprise me b/c Aaron is HORRIBLE on Avengers, IMO. I really expected him to set this title on fire, especially after his handling of THOR, but almost right from jump, Aaron does not seem to know what to do with these characters as a concept... And the idea of the Prehistoric Avengers running around in fire and loincloths is just assinine.
I've really been digging the sales analysis videos. I wish we could base it on more accurate data (ie, number of units sold to actual people instead of shipped to stores) but it's still a great resource. I agree with you that Aaron's numbers should be *waaaay* higher given the popularity of the MCU in general and the Avengers in particular but has any book actually been able to capitalize on a movie's success? Wonder Woman? Aquaman? Iron Man? Dr. Strange? That's a legit question because from where I'm sitting it looks like there has been little to no "cross pollination" of normie movie goers becoming comics readers. I like Aaron's Avengers run so far although I have to say he's much stronger in the plotting department than in the actual scripting. (Insert Christos Gage joke here.) He's got good ideas which are exciting and plot threads that I want to see develop. But once or twice an issue his dialogue is like hitting a brick wall. That can really break a reader's immersion in a story.
The sales are very low in my country here too.In next January, Panini Comics will make a mix of Coates Captain America,Cates Thor and Aaron Avengers in the same magazine.Awful run.
It may not be a dumpster fire for sales, but it's certainly a dumpster fire of a story. I'm afraid I'm helping to keep the numbers up by buying this mess. I love the Avengers, and have a very good collection from back in the early 70s. I don't want to interrupt it just because I don't like the writer. But I sure do hope he moves on to something else soon. Please!
I tried Aaron’s Avengers. I read his entire Thor run and it was up and down. Some good books, some not as good. Overall pretty solid. Could not get into his Avengers. Better than the writers before, which isn’t saying much. Hickman’s run was the best in modern times. There was a clear vision there that guided the 616 universe. That’s what you need on the Avengers book
Ya know, now that you say that, it didn’t really seem like McGuinness. I’m a big fan of the Superman/Batman series that he started with Loeb. Compare the two...it’s definitely not as good.
I thought the same thing too. That’s what kept me away from the series for a while. I enjoyed his Superman work, but something about his work on The Avengers comes off as too cartoonish. It has improved in recent issues though.
First of all, maybe a linear trend line isn't the best indicator. Maybe an exponential trend curve is a better fit to the data, given the consistent patterns to the individual data I've seen. Second of all, if you're making a routine of doing one of these videos a week maybe you can do one comic book run review and one superhero movie review every month.
These are great, Perch. I love the business end of the industry, but it looks bleak. From my research, it seems most average DC/Marvel titles live in the 30-40K range in monthly units sold. To be blunt, a HUGE corporation like AT&T/Warner or Disney has gotta be thinking "Why do we even bother with this shit?". After the retailer split, which is around half from what I gather, a $3.99 comic that sold say 33K copies would net the company around 66K. After salaries and printing costs, you're probably looking at what, $50K?!? If that? For all the work that goes into putting out a monthly comic, that's peanuts ie: reward for work involved. A company could make that much and more licensing Spidey's face to put on a pudding cup! Sure, Marvel movies make BILLIONS, but that does practically ZERO for overall comic sales in the long run and why should it? They're 2 different mediums. The TOTAL number of comic readers in the US is 250K and only a fraction of those read any given book. A suggestion for a video would be "Are monthly comics good business and if they aren't, why are they still around?".
I did jump on with #1 and dropped it after the second arc. I thought it was terrible. I kept waiting for it to turn the corner, but it was so damn boring. Wasn’t a big fan of the team either. She-Hulk being written and drawn that way, along with Captain Marvel being so unlikable...hard book to get into.
Dude if I could get 100 people to buy my issue 1 I'd be ecstatic, 63k is bonkers...but I get it, Marvel is Marvel, 63k readers isnt even a drop in the bucket.
I enjoy the writing, on this series, but, the art is horrible. It looks cartoonish. I have seen this same art, on this title, from more than one artist, which makes me think it is intentional. I have given this series more than a fair chance. The art is distracting.
I bought most of my comics in the 60s and 70s. I never bought a comic because of the writer.If I want a good story I can read a novel. I always bought because of the art. You should compare sales by artist, not by writer.
Aaron has wrote only one good thing...that is gorr... the recent avengers is very bad... age of khonshu was beyond trash and the enter the phoenix shit is also gonna be trash that i am sure of
Ah the evidential case of the constant reboots to #1. That average 38% drop by Marvel in the 1st 25-issue run is interesting, in old money that’s 2 years..so could it be that only let writers/artist on a two year contract/run, then re-vamp (reboot) the title with a new creative team to bring up sales again for the cycle to continue??
How many more of these can Perch make before he gets a cease and desist from the Big 2?
You mean mediocre two.
Sorry if this was just meant as a joke but,if not,it's public information. Comicchron,icv2,and others have similar info available.
@@brianadkins3880 Yes, it's a joke
I would love to see a video like this done for Zdarsky's Daredevil run.
I’d love if you could do the sales for Jonathan Hickman’s Avengers run
I stepped away from your channel for a hit, but these videos brought me back! I want them all!
It always turns me off when there’s an issue of The Immortal Hulk that isn’t penciled by Joe Bennett. He’s pencilled most of the series, but one of the most important arcs (Hell arc) was done by someone else, and after being spoiled with his grotesquely unique and frightening art, it’s hard to adjust to any other artist.
Loving these videos because it opens up our eyes to the numbers of these high profile books.
This is why Marvel always relaunches. #1's are all that matter in making a big spike of money, but their comics seem to lack any staying power. DC, at the least, seems to keep readers on longer...usually anyway.
marvel usually cancel/relaunches as soon as a title is selling less than 20k. dc waits longer
Marvel has only one current title that's continued past 50 issues. Heck most of them stop at 25, and none of them go past 50, except one. DC doesn't relaunch as much and so have more titles at higher numbers.
@@goldenstatewarriors9418 What's that one above 50? Amazing Spider-Man?
This has become my favorite format - it shuts down all those who are exaggerating and those who are suggarcoating everything!
For the Avengers title to land on 40'000 sales while holding the name of a set of movies that were amongst the highest grossing in history thus far, it's absolutely ludicrous.
I wonder - would Marvel underperform in comparison to DC if they didn't relaunch their titles regularly and bombarded the stores with all the amount of books they publish?
Might be interesting to see what the numbers look like for some movie adaptation comics - pick an IP like Star Wars and see how the films affected comic sales, especially for miniseries that were straight adaptations of the most recent film at the time.
Love these videos Perch. Numbers dont lie. A dose of reality is good for everyone
Men lie, women lie, numbers dont.
@@crimsondragon18 just keep in mind, there are lies, damn lies and statistics. We've seen how both sides skew the data, and nice to have Perch to be honest and impartial.
I'm really loving these. Your hard work is much appreciated Mr Perch.
Love these! Look forward to the next ones!
Just bring Kurt busiek back on the avengers as the sole writer
I've been looking for a channel that talks about comic book sales and finally found one and I am subscribing 😁
You should track the sales numbers for X of Swords and associated titles because we haven't suffered it enough.
Captain Marvel through each relaunch and Ms Marvel are begging for this treatment.
These videos are super interesting. I'd love to see you crunch the numbers on an older title like Grant Morrison's Batman run or another long, well respected title. Just to see how the industry has changed over the years.
As a comic fan who pays for the hobby by being an analytics engineer, I love these. The number you are showing as the drop would never be seen in a business meeting, but it's still fun. The unfortunate conclusion, is that no matter how many people say they want long term status quo on books, we see very clearly why that is not a good idea. Over time I'm sure we'll see some outliers (maybe Venom or T4 on Batman). Maybe a PAD book like X-Factor or Hulk would make a good baseline. Fun stuff!
What would be a better way to analyze these runs?
@@uiron5755 for just a fun chat about what's happening, the trendline change from issue 2 to current is great. We're not having monthly meetings on results here. When you do have monthly meetings, you would focus on month-over-month and year-over-year changes to the actuals. This allows comparison across the product line for any given month. The product owner (editor in this case?) or presenter will highlight increases, since churn is normal. Significant churn should be addressed, but the definition of significant is likely to be baked into the culture of the meeting group. They should have break-even numbers, or expected results on some books, that will be used to take action (at 18,000 units bump cover price or cancel, at 40% drop do not renew contracts, for example).
Absolutely fair, and I always appreciate when someone else I respect does data analysis with results which reinforce that I'm not crazy; i.e., 30% and 50% sales drops.
Scott Snyder's Batman vs. the rest of the new 52. Psych, we know already.
Avengers should be one of the best selling comics each month. You get so many of the Marvel hero's in one comic , I know as a kid Avengers was always best bang for your buck because you got Cap,Thor, Ironman etc all in one comic and the same as DC with justice league.
Usually,back-n-the day their stories were GOOD----->GREAT!! Avengers, I bought MORE consistently than any MU books.
Please do a video for Joshua Williamson’s flash run
Marvel, for years, avoided issue #50 s like the plague. Star Wars was the first Marvel series since the first Astonishing X-Men ongoing to do so. Since then, only Old Man Logan and Amazing Spider-Man have reached that milestone. I'm expecting Avengers to end at issue #46 or 47.
What's also really interesting about Jason Aaron's Avengers is that it's been doing well in the back issue market, with individual issues usually doubling in value mere months after their initial release. Depending on the success of Enter the Phoenix and its fallout are received they could get hotter.
Can you do one of these videos for Grant Morrison's Green Lantern? They replaced all of their Green Lantern books with his run and I want to see if it was actually financially worth it.
I’m glad you brought up the point about how artists can affect this trend. When it comes to Aaron’s Avengers run, it’s either Ed McGuinness or I ain’t reading it.
Same here!
See, I feel like ed mcguiness time has come and pass. I feel like the best artist they had on the title were David Marquez and Sara Pichelli. If anything they need to remove him as the "main" artist of the title.
@@missinglynks I didn’t enjoy their work as much as Ed’s. They’re fine, but I think his packs more of a punch.
If only someone could dump Diamond's sales numbers for this year online.
Edit: Marvels numbers drop so much after the first issue because they flood the shelves with variant covers. Including 1:100 & sometimes 1:500 variants.
How much this out of control variants-for-everything short term cash flow strategy is cannibalizing the potential sales of not only mid to low tier titles (plunging them into oblivion immediately after their debut) but for long running A-list series as well? It's a zero sum game after all, it's not like exploding variants to 3 on average for each single non #1 issue and 10 for #1 issues will not impact on the total amount of "clean" sales (minus variants).
Just went to a comic book store in Bismarck. Manager/Associate said they had their best year yet, with selling independent comics (not DC or Marvel) doing quite a bit of business. However, I do think the store needs more inventory, because they either don't get a good many requests for the titles I want or they get sold out. I only get to this story once every couple of months so. . . . Anyway, Perch have you heard that it's been a good year for many comic book stores?
Must be a really nice store
Yes; many are saying business is up.
These videos are very interesting. Thank you
I would love a comparison of the 12 issues into someone's run vs the 12 issues before
In your experience Perch, is the spike in #1 sales new customers coming into the shop, seeing it and buying it because it's a #1? Or is it the usual customers buying twice as many copies as normal because it's got a variant cover?
Love these type of videos. Very informative but also exciting seeing the process of data juxtapose to the narrative around the titles. Like piecing a puzzle together. Um...🤔 like, comicbook forensics! 😁👌🏿Lol
How about examining all of Bendis' Avengers run? Maybe even a few issues before him and after him?
Love these! Keep them up
Keep this videos coming Perch. Facts and cold numbers don't care for fanboys feelings.
Jason Aaron's Avengers isn't that great; it's the very definition of "OK." I'll stick around for the Phoenix storyarc, but I'll probably drop the book after that.
I'm interested in that arc. Been ignoring it until now.
I’m digging this book - it’s big and weird. I mean, the vampire nation arc was fantastic!
I really do like these sales charts. It's interesting to see how general opinion matches up with the actual sales of each run. If possible, I would like to see how the sales for some runs on particular titles match up with other runs on those same titles. For instance how does Bendis' run on Superman match with Tomasi's? Or how does King's run on Batman match to Snyder's or Tynion's.
I'm also curious if these trends exist for only superhero comics or if it matches to trends with comics released by other publishers in the direct market like Image or Boom. Does the trend exist with all comics sold primarily in the direct market?
If that is the case how do sales in the book market match up? Do we see similar drops for manga or kid's comics? Granted the sales there are primarily in trades but would we see similar 35%ish drops there? For instance, would we see the same scale of drops for Hero Academy or Kazuishi's Amulet series? Or do sales there hold consistent? Is there a difference in sales drops between say the first 6 issues from the rest of Tom King's Batman and the first volume of his run from the rest?
For some reason, I read “Jason Aaron” as Jasper
In my opinion, with only a rare exception here and there, and not in the core Avengers title, The Avengers haven't been The Avengers since Brian Michael Bendis disassembled them. He accomplished that goal far more than I believe even he intended to. Since then, for my money and tastes, no one has "got" The Avengers. I'll just leave it at that. Something needs to be done. I hope, if Marvel decides to reassemble them ( which is what I thought Jason Aaron's run was to be ) again, they'll take time to at least think about it long and broad before they decide exactly how to go about it. I'm not sure Marvel has been giving much thought to anything they've been doing for years. Most things, to me, seem to simply be impulsive and reactive rather than creative and proactive.
I agree 100% with in this.Bendis screw the team forever.They never been the same since Disassemble.No more strong morals creeds and old idealism,The Busiek run was the last worth Avenger run for me.
I don't recall off the top of my head if the maxi-series "Avengers Forever" was before or after BMB's disassembling, but I agree with Evandro that the Busiek / Perez run was the last series of The Avengers where they were.... The Avengers. I'd put "Avengers Forever" in there, too, though. The creators on these two runs really understood The Avengers.
@@timkretzer Avengers Forever was before BMB Avengers.Avengers today is very in the same vibe of MCU films,theres no more old school Avengers.No more moral strong moral fiber and the same idealism.Today anyone can be a Avenger,heck Deadpool was one in Uncanny Avengers.
Keep them coming! Is there any information on how much money a publisher actually makes after everyone is paid? Especially a big name creative vs. low sales..
Just curious, what is this tool who calculate amazon sales?
It's in the video I did on the Amazon sales; I show the link and how to use it.
Keep doing good work.
Age of Khonshu seems like it was an event pitch that was passed over in favor of Empyre.
They should have told him to fuck off with that dumb shit
Would love an updated charts post Pheonix tournamenet
It would be really interesting to see charts like this for the 70s and 80s. I would suspect that the drop-off percentages during that era were MUCH less, or else titles reaching 200+ would have (theoretically) been near or below zero.
Obviously, there is a lower limit that can be reached, so that nothing will ever hit true zero. But the trend line could predict when 0 would be hit if the drop-off were to remain consistent.
Perch do you have a link for this tool you said that calculates amazon sales?
Yes; www.tckpublishing.com/amazon-book-sales-calculator/
I would love to see a comparison between the Snyder v. King Batruns
You should do a HUGE VIDEO covering all the dawn of x stats... Would be reaaaally interesting
Best videos perch
Perch, what do you think would boost sales, and why isn’t it being done. I remember before some comic book movie there was an ad for local comic shops (I believe it was DC) that could be found online. Do you think there should be more ads like that before movies? Should there be a link to Marvel.com on Disney+? Should ABC or Hulu or ESPN be broadcasting ads? I’d be interested to hear your (and Joe C.’s) take on getting more readers.
I thought it was hit or miss. I was round for the first 2 arcs. I jumped back in for the rider race.
Perch, doe Marvel do over ships on #1 and, if so, how does that affect this analysis?
Sometimes, and yes it would count as more units shipped. I don’t believe it has factored into any of the videos I’ve done so far though. I will note it when I hit it.
Most of this was at a time when the Avengers movies were the hottest property on the planet, breaking box office records, on the minds of kids and average Joes everywhere, Avengers merch flying off the shelves, and the comics are selling like this? The only explanation seems to be flabergasting mismanagement by Marvel.
These days Marvel TPB collect 5 issues and I have been seeing it with ASM and Venom
The numbers may be set but interpretation is debatable.
I attempt to separate the stats from the analysis. You can come at it from different places.
Which part of the interpretation?
I seen copies of the Lady Thor TPB in the dollarstores for 3$, and passed on it.
Man, im so glad you do these videos. I all but forgot Jason Arron run on Avengers. Jason Arrons like Coates, Slott, Nick Spencer are a boat load of shite writers. A bunch of SJW nonsense. This is all the fault of the editors. All of them have to be fired. We need Jim Shooter back. If he was here? these guys would have to ship up or be fired!
Jason Aaron is an a-hole. He antagonizes his customers. I just got so turned off by his garbage. It's like he hates being the writer for the avengers, and hates more that the fans wanted Iron Man, Cap and Thor. So he went, oh, ok. let me treat them like crap. The constant dress down the trio get from Captain MArvel. The She-Hulk referred to as HULK??! Jason has tons of potential. He's like that star quarterback that just doesn't care to be a quarterback, but a flute player. Again Fire this guy, fire all the editors, fire the editor in chief ( he's in his office watchin anime and food channels) i tried to give it a chance. i want a consistant comic line that aka captain marvel gets rebooted every other week. I just pass on the racks with disgust at the Avengers title, the Captain America title, Iron Man. If they all got half way decent writers? they would be selling off the rack. Again fire the editor in chief, editors, assistant editors and Coats, Slott, Weid
Surprising to see the Avengers drop so badly.
Could it be the roster? People expecting the characters from the movies and then getting something else?
The things is, the audience from marvel studios and marvel comics are different, one does not affect the another.
Perch make the same to Immortal Hulk please
These sales figures don't surprise me b/c Aaron is HORRIBLE on Avengers, IMO. I really expected him to set this title on fire, especially after his handling of THOR, but almost right from jump, Aaron does not seem to know what to do with these characters as a concept... And the idea of the Prehistoric Avengers running around in fire and loincloths is just assinine.
I've really been digging the sales analysis videos. I wish we could base it on more accurate data (ie, number of units sold to actual people instead of shipped to stores) but it's still a great resource. I agree with you that Aaron's numbers should be *waaaay* higher given the popularity of the MCU in general and the Avengers in particular but has any book actually been able to capitalize on a movie's success? Wonder Woman? Aquaman? Iron Man? Dr. Strange? That's a legit question because from where I'm sitting it looks like there has been little to no "cross pollination" of normie movie goers becoming comics readers.
I like Aaron's Avengers run so far although I have to say he's much stronger in the plotting department than in the actual scripting. (Insert Christos Gage joke here.) He's got good ideas which are exciting and plot threads that I want to see develop. But once or twice an issue his dialogue is like hitting a brick wall. That can really break a reader's immersion in a story.
The sales are very low in my country here too.In next January, Panini Comics will make a mix of Coates Captain America,Cates Thor and Aaron Avengers in the same magazine.Awful run.
I think you should stick to [overall drop] and [overall drop excluding 1]
It may not be a dumpster fire for sales, but it's certainly a dumpster fire of a story. I'm afraid I'm helping to keep the numbers up by buying this mess. I love the Avengers, and have a very good collection from back in the early 70s. I don't want to interrupt it just because I don't like the writer. But I sure do hope he moves on to something else soon. Please!
I tried Aaron’s Avengers. I read his entire Thor run and it was up and down. Some good books, some not as good. Overall pretty solid. Could not get into his Avengers. Better than the writers before, which isn’t saying much. Hickman’s run was the best in modern times. There was a clear vision there that guided the 616 universe. That’s what you need on the Avengers book
The problem with Aaron's Avengers is the art by Ed McGuinness wasn't very good. That is why I dropped the title.
Ya know, now that you say that, it didn’t really seem like McGuinness. I’m a big fan of the Superman/Batman series that he started with Loeb. Compare the two...it’s definitely not as good.
I thought the same thing too. That’s what kept me away from the series for a while. I enjoyed his Superman work, but something about his work on The Avengers comes off as too cartoonish. It has improved in recent issues though.
First of all, maybe a linear trend line isn't the best indicator. Maybe an exponential trend curve is a better fit to the data, given the consistent patterns to the individual data I've seen. Second of all, if you're making a routine of doing one of these videos a week maybe you can do one comic book run review and one superhero movie review every month.
I need to get to a schedule. And the trend line is exponential actually. Problem is we have less data that I’d like.
Seeing the actual sales numbers pretty clearly explains why Marvel and DC are always going after new readers.
Geoff Johns Green Lantern. Donny Cares Venom. Jason Aaron Thor. Jeph Loeb Red Hulk. Greg Pak Incredible Hulk. Bendis Ultimate Spider-Man.
These are great, Perch. I love the business end of the industry, but it looks bleak. From my research, it seems most average DC/Marvel titles live in the 30-40K range in monthly units sold. To be blunt, a HUGE corporation like AT&T/Warner or Disney has gotta be thinking "Why do we even bother with this shit?". After the retailer split, which is around half from what I gather, a $3.99 comic that sold say 33K copies would net the company around 66K. After salaries and printing costs, you're probably looking at what, $50K?!? If that? For all the work that goes into putting out a monthly comic, that's peanuts ie: reward for work involved. A company could make that much and more licensing Spidey's face to put on a pudding cup! Sure, Marvel movies make BILLIONS, but that does practically ZERO for overall comic sales in the long run and why should it? They're 2 different mediums. The TOTAL number of comic readers in the US is 250K and only a fraction of those read any given book. A suggestion for a video would be "Are monthly comics good business and if they aren't, why are they still around?".
I think a more important trend would be his Thor numbers. I began buying Thor with Jane Foster and that had me excited for his Avengers.
I did jump on with #1 and dropped it after the second arc. I thought it was terrible. I kept waiting for it to turn the corner, but it was so damn boring. Wasn’t a big fan of the team either. She-Hulk being written and drawn that way, along with Captain Marvel being so unlikable...hard book to get into.
Perch, this video needs an update.
Dude if I could get 100 people to buy my issue 1 I'd be ecstatic, 63k is bonkers...but I get it, Marvel is Marvel, 63k readers isnt even a drop in the bucket.
I like these videos you started making about comic sales BUT YOU NEED TO MAKE A TITLE FOR THESE VIDEOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A title, or a playlist?
@@ComicsPerch how about both?
I enjoy the writing, on this series, but, the art is horrible. It looks cartoonish. I have seen this same art, on this title, from more than one artist, which makes me think it is intentional. I have given this series more than a fair chance. The art is distracting.
I was a big fan of his work on Thor. This run has been so trash
I bought most of my comics in the 60s and 70s. I never bought a comic because of the writer.If I want a good story I can read a novel. I always bought because of the art. You should compare sales by artist, not by writer.
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Aaron has wrote only one good thing...that is gorr... the recent avengers is very bad... age of khonshu was beyond trash and the enter the phoenix shit is also gonna be trash that i am sure of
Ah the evidential case of the constant reboots to #1. That average 38% drop by Marvel in the 1st 25-issue run is interesting, in old money that’s 2 years..so could it be that only let writers/artist on a two year contract/run, then re-vamp (reboot) the title with a new creative team to bring up sales again for the cycle to continue??