If they intend to lock components inside CZ, then they need to have other concurrent ways of obtaining them, like reputation or exploration or even mission rewards.
Insurance needs to change. Claiming a ship should differentiate between: bring ship from another station to here, rescue back my ship from location X where I died, and my ship crashed into the sun I need a new one from scratch. A factory new ship shouldn't keep custom components. And in turn, ships should not explode randomly and I should be able to get by my custom components and repair them most of the time.
Hopefully engineering should stop ships from randomly exploding because it's not going to be a big HP pool that explodes when it hits 0, but generators (Fuel, power, life support) to pipes and pipes to components. If a generator, pipe or component is damaged then you lose that, but the ship never explodes unless the reactor has gone critical or IF they can do malestrom, it takes an insane amount of damage for a ship to lose parts. The main issue right now is physics and desync, as far as I'm aware. maybe the doors appear open to you when they aren't, or you're moving along and suddenly you desync and resync causing your missiles to jump a foot into the geometry of your ship and explode. Not sure if/how they can fix that 100% but at least your ship shouldn't be scuttled when it does.
What we now have as "insurance" isn't the real planned insurance mechanic anyway. And the real insurance will cover custom components, it just costs extra (yes, even for LTI ships), the custom components will also affect claim times since insurance needs to source them from somewhere. OTOH if the component is not bought new/certfified refurbished from a store then maybe it cannot be insured (whether it was looted from contested zone or another ship). Maelstorm and resource network need both to be fully integrated before ships stop blowing up in general, whether caused by physics bugs or desync or just game activity.
I think it's good. Military components locked behind violent conflict is reasonable. They just need to do the same with the other components too, like industrial or competition ones. Civilian is what the standard should be and specializing should result in better and more unique advantages
Sounds fun and I like the best ship components being behind a "dungeon" so I can finally have a rewarding gameplay loop, but I think they'll fall into the development trap that other free-loot MMOs have where zergs always control the Contested Zones.
The contested zones have hard choke points that make it possible to hold off an indefinate amount of people, which is mostly good imho. On the other hand I'd say zergs are fair game, the group with the most people and resources will always come out on top and to break that would ruin the immersion of the game
@@ironwarr Zergs may be fair game but they also usually kill the game. Every MMO that has allowed an alpha zerg control the server has lost its playerbase. It's up to the devs to find solutions to prevent zergs from controlling all resources and all events.
Hoping they do something Tarkov-like and add small but valuable loot worth 5k+ all the way up to some very rare 100k+ doodad. Make it possible to play a "FPS scavenger" kind of role.
@@loam4187 so the second we have FPS content in a PvP lawless system overruled by gangs its an extraction shooter. Do you know how dumb you sound. People like you ruin this game.
@loam4187 go cry, they adding just 1 optional thing that looks like it, it's not like they are changing the whole game to be an extraction shooter. With that logic starcitizen is more of a flight simulator than a space game
With 3.24 comes the end of "local" storage and looting as we know it. Since we cannot physically carry the ship components and tractor beams do not work outside of landing pads, how are we supposed to move components we loot?
That is actually a concern, as the area of contested zones are not armstice, but given they are next to the common area, then the common area cannot be armstice as well, otherwise you cannot even tractor to a kiosk. Unless the high value loot are in the asteroid stations where they are abandoned and you can tractor them into your ship parked right outside. But then again, the other people who are trying to reach the same boxes will definitely kill your ship before going in...
@@Basics_of_Gameology Feels very silly to be concerned about that when you don't know anything about the placement of contested zones relative to freight elevators. It might be a terminal like Ghost Hollow, there might be a freight elevator somewhere in the Contested Zone area, etc.,
@@InvictusByz Hopefully so, and that is limited to Grade As and not Bs, if all components are gatekeeped by PvP, imgaine forcing miners to go PvP just for a Civilian Grade A QT drive LMAO
Definitely think this will be a good thing when we have a solid player market but currently it’s too early to block these higher tier components behind PvP. They should still keep the contested zones but give a monetary reward instead
There are much easier way to make credits and once you have everything what is another 50M credits anymore ? There needs to be *something* that is both useful and unattainable in other ways. That said nothing prevents you from hiring some org to get you the components and paying with credits.
So we can basically forget about military components as orgs will camp this for them totally, got it. Awful idea, tbh, they just need to add EXTRA good components there, not lock military components behind it; reward players who do the activity but do not annoy and add a penalty to players who do not interact with it cig...
You're the only other guy in here who gets it. As a solo or small group player, you cannot play this content. You'll be blasted out of the sky the second you approach the landing zone. People are severely underestimating what a nightmare these large whale/streamer-led orgs are going to be. They're going to suck all the fun out of the game and I fear CIG will always prioritize *their* fun, because streamers help sell games, and whales buy lots of things in the store.
Well. I kind of agree. What if we land further from the pads and actually use our grounds vehicles to approache the area? It could bring the use of ground vehicles. That is, if we can even get close to the ground or fly out of the atmosphere if we actually land...
Yeah, more content us smol time players without access to large "friendpools" won't have be able to engage with. x'3 Star Citizen does not cater to the little guy.
I believe this is one way of getting good items quickly, I’m sure they mentioned at citizen con that blue prints that lock to your account can be found through exploring, mission rewards and I think they said PvP but I will have to double check that one, The blue prints will be to make the high grade weapons, armors, components etc so I think this loop is for a quicker way to obtain them maybe, The SC community is great so I’m sure there will be people willing to run this with the solo players so you don’t miss out and I will be happy too also, I’m not big on the pvp as mining is my preferred loop but I’ll join in to help obtain the better items :)
If the merchantman is supposed to be a player based place to sell items, the game play for selling items is already thought of and is going to be implemented. Like Salty Mike says: players need to have the responsibility to be able to do more than an npc based market. Imo. Players need to have more than just loot, cargo run, and grief. They need to have black market stalls, bases, farming, crafting, etc. Yes u might need to hit some of these "dungeons" to get the recipe. But still needs to be more in the players hands vs npc controlled everything.
Having a respawn point next to these PvP locations is, in my view, a bad idea. Think of any extraction shooter where you can respawn and jump right back into the action without external help. When would a fight between two players ever end? Until one of them has to log off because of real-life obligations? Yes, you can respawn in Counter Strike. But such games have different rule sets where a winner is chosen at the end of a match. One of the main interesting parts of an extraction shooter is the fear of losing all your gear. A respawn mechanic next to those locations eliminates that.
Seems more like dayz to me, kill someone on the coast and they'll be running back to get their shit with whatever gun they found on the way. If it's too fast it'll kill it but they didn't seem concerned so we'll see
This will only matter if someone is hell bent on just camping one of the "obvious" entrances (there will be many alternative entrances), all the cool stuff is *deep* and there will be ways to extract without trekking all the way back. Also there are plenty of environmental hazards so a killed player will not be back deep in the zone anytime soon.
I think a good way to address the insurance issue is to simply have insurance not cover them. The whole idea is that these components aren't generally available for sale to the public. So how would the insurance company get one to give you a replacement? And to balance out the advantage these components give a player, I think as UEE military property, they should be considered illegal contraband. So if a UEE police ship scans you, they're gonna see them and you're gonna have some 'splaining to do. So it'll be pretty risky to have your ship outfitted with them in patrolled space. Or even have them onboard.
Honestly if they do include an Auction House, they need to make it player run, in the way, if you check the AH for an item, you can see where it is sold from, and maybe reserve it by paying the price, then go pick it up, or have players either ship them via other players or AI run crews, which are still prone to be attacked by pirates etc. Otherwhise it kinda defeats the purpose of having the Kraken and BMM with their markets tbh. Also talking about loot, we need more scanning gameplay, hacking etc. Finding actually random ships, asteroid bases etc in space, where you can potentially hit the jacket and find some great tech.
Contested Zones will become much more careful when Death of a Spaceman eventually arrives, I imagine. I do find it a bit annoying that the top components will be locked behind these PvP missions, but hopefully the future will open other avenues for this i.e. being able to access a special shop when you reach max level with a faction (max CDF gets you the option to purchase Grade A mil components etc.). I'm definitely a PvE player who greatly prefers ship-based activity over FPS gameplay, and it would be nice to be able to trick out my racing ship to top spec without having to visit a black market.
You should be able to buy all this stuff in stores, make them rare sure but don't make the best stuff exclusive to one gameplay loop! Hell there probably should be a tinkering / upgrading loop to improve components you own anyway
Bro then where is the progression? if I can just go to a station and buy it there’s not any challenge and it’s definitely not rare. I get maybe being able to craft them, but we need real rewards for real challenges not just money.
@@echo5827why not? Make it something that you can buy when you build up reputation with the UEE, and then this loop will be the way the unlawful players acquire the same gear. It provides 2 ways of acquiring the gear for 2 possibly competing players.
Why not just pay a player who enjoys PvP to go and get one from Pyro for you? Why take away other players jobs to have the item in stores which would diminish the very activity of going to a location to get one @@Arbyfig
I DEFINITELY agree that they need to do the insurance re-do ASAP. I do think, however, that it needs to coincide with the game being stable enough (both with bugs and with design) that we are much less likely to suddenly lose our ships. So that would require at least ship armor, resource network, maybe even Maelstrom, as well as game stability. One of the reasons they even changed insurance to cover ship components is because they (thankfully) relented when it was pointed out that you could randomly lose your ship from any number of bugs and issues, not to mention the fast TTK there was back then. So just another thing on the board of "needs to all come together somewhat simultaneously" but I definitely do look forward to the day where we are more likely to be disabled and then later repair, and not having insurance cover our components anymore. It will make going out feel extremely visceral when you've got a ship completely buffed out. Really excited for that.
These Contested Zones should be dynamic like those dynamic worm holes, where they will just last for a certain time and then you have to find or track to find new ones. This way it will be less monopolized
As someone who tends to play solo and not be too big into PVP, I have immediately given up on this content as something I won't be able to participate in. Those rewards just won't be accessible to me. For everyone who can participate, though, I genuinely hope they have fun with it.
Maybe some contested zones should have their very own server shard, mixing players across different servers, so that teaming up with others becomes impossible. Like this you could have some of the contested zones being something like “solo dungeons”. This could be done for example by limiting the number of persons in an airlock that leads to a contested zone, where you are then being transferred to the dedicated contested zone server. This would require server meshing to work though
Sounds like mini 'Tarkov raids' combined with dungeons from your typical MMOs. People forget Tarkov is an MMO with the extraction mechanic.. It has crafting, flea market, missions, reputation, etc.
now if only CIG could learn what good gunplay feels like... What I thought sounded cool was when they said there's freight elevators in these raids, so I'm assuming you could extract gear or if you found a bunch of cargo or ship components or something load it then send it out and when you get back to your personal hanger (hideout) split up the loot or sell it or whatever. Basically a physicalized tarkov but in the context of star citizen ends up sounding pretty cool to me. Some people will just farm that as a gameplay loop, it's a good idea honestly
I don't really think these tunnels with a reward at the end are really going to cut it though. I'll play through it for the reward but the "maps" don't exactly look amazing and I don't know if there is enough skill expression or technique in Star Citizen to allow one solos to take on four man squads in FPS content like they can in Tarkov. It looks kind of like you run into each other in a corridor and whichever team has more players likely has the last man standing and then he goes around an revives all his buddies so they can all walk down to the only item of interest on the "map". Hopefully I'm wrong I just don't suddenly trust Star Citizen to be a good FPS game. Honestly any game that takes spraying to kill people, has revives, team markers, fps scanning, etc is just going to be very numbers based over all. Tarkov is one of the only games that gets around this but most casual gamers wouldn't be willing to support that kind experience.
SC: Oh i know what will get pvp pilot fighters back... a first person shooter loop for them to get their gear. Fml, when are they going to develop incentive game loops for pilots to swarm an area for the same thing? anything, like maybe random UEE patrols to track and take out for sweet components?
Bro... just because they made an FPS focused gameplay loop doesn't mean that they'll ignore fighter pilots. I find it funny that people complain about literally everything, including the good stuff they bring in
Or PvE forcing exploration that may not once even ever need PvP, but a chance for all players to go seek out things via exploration either solo or with friends. This is why I stopped pledging when they added in death penalties. Why give more to a game that is actively trying to go out of business.
Well, what will happen is here is that big orgs will lock the locations down and sell the components on the market. So, you can still get it but you just have to be purchasing it like you would anything else. The economy in this game looks like it will be incredibly inflated, so it might just be permanently out of reach of solo or small group players
I agree... it would be nice to go out and find these locations. The way they are planning it is more of a "this is my shard, my location with org X, no one can have it" basically farming the location and selling at higher prices within the game. Makes it tough, however I guess this is what they are aiming for.
I love that we're getting this rather than full bounty hunting or full science or full farming or...This isn't new game play. These are PvP maps. CIG aren't implementing game play at all and it's really disconcerting. Shouldn't all this game play have been waiting on Server Meshing to implement?
I feel like right now CIG is focused on things that will force people to group up. This is probably because they saw legitimacy in the critique that most current tasks in the game are solo. Sometime I also wonder if they think this will take a little weight off of them needing to design content. Surely when a game is kind of a slug like Star Citizen having other people around could make the time spent go a little quicker or maker it more enjoyable... Or maybe PvP adds a challenge without devs needing to design various enemy types, encounters, and challenges.
My hot take on the idea that there is going to be a space where you need to have friends is good. The game is meant to be social, to be played in larger quantities. We see it with ships, and I think seeing it in places like this is going to be key.
CIG has always wanted to avoid wipes where possible, but there will *definitely* be more wipes in the future. At least two points are absolutely certain: Entering beta and entering full release 1.0 (those of course are very far away still). Whether 4.0 will have a wipe is a big question, but to truly test how Pyro affects economies etc I don't see how they could avoid a wipe, OTOH it would be pretty soon after the previous one which would be annoying to say the least so maybe they will wait for some more things to come fully integrated before wiping (maybe a third star system).
Well... if there is good ship stuff there, and if it's not aways there, this means that... at least from my pov, that there's no reason to actually have any kind of warning that they are there right now. I mean... the fun part of an exploration is that you never know if there will be good stuff waiting for you, but there could be good stuff there, so that's why you are exploring the area in first place. So... if they add some sort of mission that pops up in our mobiglas, like you said, that would be a shame.
@@El1qt Its not that its hard to obtain, its that there's suddenly a player element preventing people from getting the loot they need to handle the player element that's gatekeeping the loot. Without any other method to obtain the equipment that is offered through this (especially the time gating element), it means that suddenly there's a major power imbalance in terms of gear between a player who is skilled at and wants to pvp and a player who isnt skilled at and doesn't want to pvp. Suddenly PVP orgs hold ALL the power in the game, and players will get to decide who does and doesn't get to vertically progress. Its 100% a shit show waiting to happen. How do I know this is going to happen? It happens in games like Ark, Rust, and Last Oasis. Big groups take over all the good loot spots, and you either join them or you don't get to play. And joining the big group means you are often relegated to base moms and free labor in order to get anywhere. Its just a protection racket.
@@ThreeGoddessesso to sum up what your saying is that you are complaining about a skill issue, and you are complaining that it is hard for solo players, cool. This game was never meant to be solo player friendly, have you seen the ship designs. You require multiple crew members. I dont know who told you this is a solo player game. Also your first argument literally just sounds like you’re complaining that you aren’t good enough to kill other players. Do you know it’s fine if you cant kill them. It just means you will have to buy it from them. I dont know why thats a bad thing as it creates an economy
@@El1qt Seems great on paper until you remember that this type of content will be functionally locked by large orgs. If you're solo or in a small group, you might as well think of this content as not existing.
It creates an economy catered to the lucky few who will gatekeep a timed drop in specific areas. If you can't see where that will lead or even Morphs note of caution on the subject you are very optimistic. Sorry I've seen this type of thing way back in Everquest days, it will not end well.
In the June Monthly report they did talk about "Furthermore, the team progressed with potential features for Alpha 4.0. This included significant overhauls to the mission and marker systems as well as the development of the player-trade functionality, which align with the overarching objective of achieving Server Meshing." While its Potential, we will see if its in the roadmap so we can have less of "WE NEED PLAYER TRADE" and more "YOU TALKED ABOUT PLAYER TRADE WHEN?"
Hopefully meshing works well enough, that people can complete these missions without too much loss. It's bad enough when you wipe in a dungeon, but doing so due to a server issue, is far worse.
I love the idea of contested zones. The part that is rubbing me the wrong way is locking the best ship components into loot for it. Its basically locking one style of game play behind a different style of game play. Its an FPS style loop so the rewards should be FPS focused not ship focused. I like doing ship combat, hauling, racing and just flying ships that's why I pledged. Being put at a disadvantage and killing what little progression i have because they needed loot for a FPS game play loop is going to kill the game for me.
(home from a day at work) "Ahhh, time to play some Star Citizen. Oh, looks like a rare component is spawning!" - Spend 25 minutes flying to the location "Huh, its lagging a little bit. I wonder why" - sees like 50 hornets all from the same org led by some streamer "Oh shit, thats a lot of missiles - Fucking dies "Welp, I don't have the time to claim my ship, fly back there, and then just die again before even seeing the landing zone. Guess I'll play something else" This will spell doom for the MMO side of this game
With all this PVP. We need a hands up or I surrender hand signals to appeal to mercy gameplay. Something to encourage social gameplay besides destroying.
im happy for this as i can careless for PVP and if me buying stuff from pvpers makes me friends with them , thats the absolute coolest loop of the game and im excited for these changes. im happy to be a space weed farmer and pay my dues :P
imagine farmers making dope food items that have these players that come to trade want to come back for more food! that would also be a great extension when it comes haha
This may work if they introduce a player market. I particurlaly think it is a bad idea to pvp block the best ship components. They should be still acessible. The contested version could have alternate or experimental versions, while the shops sell stock, but still good pieces. Well, let's test it out and see how it goes.
I keep trying to leep in mind that SC is still in alpha and basically just QA testing while they are building the game. I like to think these contested zones loops, components, and perma death, will change closer to 1.0 release
it's just a bunker, the stuff they didn't want to talk about is probably something from sq 42 or something. Or just railguns, or something else they made rare in recent past. I thought the community was thinking it would be basebuilding, crazy how nobody seems to remember that now and is just hyped for bunker 2.0. When we went from bunker to distro centers, everyone was like it's a cool place but it's the same boring missions. when we only saw the distro's we were like oh i see the first roads this means we will be driving, they are huuuge. you can land there, endless possibilities. you name it. That's exactly what this will be like i think.
The issue with this is if it IS event advertised, its forcing pvp to get the loot you need to survive avoiding pvp. They need to have other ways to get that kind of loot, otherwise people who are less skilled at pvp or don't want to actively engage in it will ALWAYS be a leg down over those who ARE skilled at pvp and actively engage with it. We do not want that kind of imbalance. This is a problem with hiding the best gear behind pvp; it becomes inaccessible. I wont mind it, though, if they introduce other, more pve focused means of acquiring this gear for other game loops. Exploration, for example, with its enhanced scanners and long range ships should be out there exploring ruins and caves and finding hidden alien artifacts and technology, on top of the other things (selling info and POIs is not as fun as you would think, we explorers NEED something else there to explore outside of just gliding over a surface or coasting through an asteroid field). Salvage crews should be recovering and refurbishing that gear as part of the process (how cool would it be for a vulture to stumble across an experimental scorpius that has a bleeding edge quantum drive?). And of course, both of those loops could create blueprints to sell to the manufacturing players (when that comes, if ever) so they can modify and craft them to sell into the market. Because they have said time and again that star citizen is NOT a pvp game, its a PVE game WITH PVP. And if the ONLY way to get the chase gear is to PVP, then it stops being PVE with PVP, it becomes PVP with PVE. And there IS a distinction to be had there.
@@loam4187 pvp skill will absolutely play a large part in this because even if a large org shuts down the location, they need to be able to hold it. And an org that can't pvp well won't be holding it effectively or for long
I’m personally excited to get the chance to take on larger groups as a solo PVPer. It’s all about tactics or teaming up with random solo players to get a better advantage.
There doesn't appear to be a plan for that. I can't even imagine a plan that works. The existence of whales of this magnitude kind of kills the economic side of the game.
I share those concerns about issues and problems that might occure when a single group decides to cut off players from thise areas consitently. About keeping the loop interesting, yes they might want to rethink insurance. HOWEVER, we are still in alpha and nothing you do and gain in 4.0 stays beyond release version 1.0. So there is at least ONE certain wipe. There is no other way. So no more wipes in alpha.... yes. Important for the game as a released game, no. That is why we test this in alpha to make sure those loops stay viable.
You gotta give this new loot a price so makes you wanna go back to a marketplace to sell it for a large amount. A profitable amount would give you the reason to go back.
Super excited, Dark Zone gameplay from Division gives you a special feeling and experience of success. But as you said, how is insurance working on those components? How do you get them out of the zone by the way? I assume we will loot blueprints once 1.0 hits the servers and for now it is components and stuff. How are they balance the group play and the rewards?
Eventually they probably will have whole PVE systems, with crime stats for any PVP. You want PVE only, go to one of those systems. When they are released of course 😊
As a solo player pvp always screws the game up for you. Items that work for pve will get nerfed because of some pvp reason, groups will hoard equipment and even if there was a market it would get persuaded by those items you have no hope of getting. For a game I've been distancing myself with, I think this might actually be the death knell for me. Just give me my solo game.
Any instance like gameplay loop to suck in all those griefers is very welcome. keep them busy in some kind of playground for difficult people so that the rest of the game is free
I can only assume that high end components will also be attainable in a multitude of other ways down the line, but this will suck in the short term to have them locked behind exclusively a single activity. That said, I also feel like these contested zones are really going against the whole idea of death of a spaceman. In fact, a lot of gameplay loops they are talking about is beginning to feel this way. Seems like that either is going to need reworked, or scrapped at this point.
I feel like most are missing that they are very subtly dipping their toes in live real time, player ran warfare. I forgot which ISC or QnA it was but I am sure I heard someone mention that on a 1.0 version of the game, there will be 5-6 full star systems and some locations between systems as well, and it will all be player ran from the economy (haulers and salvagers) to the diplomacy to the science and even warfare. It was at least two years ago but I remember it perfectly because that was the moment I realised EVE: Online and Star Citizen are essentially the exact same game concept just executed very differently, meaning (if it ever comes) the 1.0 launch version of Star Citizen.
There will be no player run economy, you got it backwards. There will be at least 10 NPCs/Quanta (backend simulator lightweight "NPC" not instanced into the world) for every player. Of course a *large* org might be able to seriously influence economy in some backwater system *for a little while*. Player actions in aggregate will have an effect on the world (especially regarding the lines of war with Vanduul) but they will not be driving anything.
@@EeroafHeurlin You are speaking of the alpha my friend, not the launch version. While there will be 10 NPCs to each player, (they actually said 100) what if in a player corporation, a single player employs 10,000 NPCs?
@@empyrean-jamelgreaves8034 You cannot have NPCs captaining/piloting your ships so how would any hired NPCs beyond what is needed to crew a ship change the situation ? That one player can still only have the effect of a single capital class hauler on the economy.
CIG is so creatively bankrupt. Their idea of fun is timers. We have ship timers, we have loading cargo timers, now we have timers for missions. Might as well have a timer to just log into the game. I LOVE WATCHING THE NUMBERS GO DOWN UNTIL I CAN HAVE FUN.
Hi, can anyone help me out here. I briefly tried Star Citizen in November of 2022, and I feel like people were talking about 4.0 update "coming soon" then... am I just imagining that or remembering wrong? I know this kind of comment might come across sarcastic or snide online, but I promise it's not, I just am a bit confused and feel like my mind is playing tricks on me 😅 thank you
@@pimvanduijne ahh ok, thank you for letting me know! As someone who has never played such immersive sim games before and always uses a controller, I found it really difficult to change to a mouse and keyboard. I have a one handed keypad thing and still couldn't find a way of mapping that to best suit what felt like many many many controls 😅 I might try again though when 4.0 actually happens, seems like it is a big deal to the users.
Not sure what the final system will end up being, but I patently disagree with a derelict/pirate system having top-tier military-grade stuff locked behind PVP when that system is also lawless. Until/Unless there are alternative options for people who don't want to engage that system/PVP. (Even an AH will be a "good enough" avoidance avenue). I'd be fine with piracy-specific components, like something that goes into one of those un-used "avionics" slots that does [lampshade things] to make your cargo resistant to scanning. Or something that is related to the gameplay loop you engage to get it So for PVP in pyro, a combat-tuned fuses? Multi-use crypto key? Weekly/monthly/quarterly/annual-reset IFF Inverter spawn that can be used for players to triggered the SoO mission? Just have it launch automatically on a schedule if nobody picks it up--hedge for playercount falloff and mitigate "dead" game areas/content. Evergreen content. But yeah, flesh out the game and alternative loops before we start soft-locking content behind loops that only a niche audience likes engaging with. I have no problems with wanting to funnel people into it so you can actually get some testing done to get things balanced how you want them. The reward isn't the issue for people that don't like PVP, its the barrier to entry and the consequence of failure. If you want people to test the contested zone, then 1) actually communicate with your playerbase, who have an over-abundance of Bacherlor's and Master's degrees, compared to a lot of other games out there (see: just be transparent and honest and if they don't understand they will ask and).... and 2) consider reducing the punsihment for failure, add handicaps; branch/fork a server built specifically to test the area/mode/feature, but won't impact (see: take away from) the gains made during regular play 3) come to terms with the fact that MOST people do not want to pvp (especially in a game where losing has lasting consequences that impacts PVE experience or convenience), and even less are good at it to a high level.
I'm not a PvPer, but I like this. It creates a market, I won't go into the PvP zones but I would be willing to buy the components from someone. That's something I thing the game needs, trading, uncommon components or modded ones. The "I know a guy" or "I know the NPC" type of thing. Looks cool, tho.
I'm not against PvP. I love PvP in Tarkov... Now with Star Citizen's FPS gameplay probably not. 😅 I'd probably just keep it to flight combat in Star Citizen but that seems like it's going to be a little heavily numbers and ship based in master modes now too. It's not like the Prospector is able hear someone coming, hide, and get a cheeky headshot on the F8C looking for him. Or have a chance in skillfully maneuvering around and fighting back.
It would be cool too if the content is hard enough that people want to group up to improve there chances of success but this won't really be possible if you can't both get the loot. It sounds like you just need to run a 10 man squad, kill all the smaller groups, and rerun it over and over until everyone in your group has the part.
Insurance should just pay in cash like it would IRL or in EVE. That means it's still risky to bring out your collector items and making destruction of things more permanent. But you can always go buy a new one with your pay out
Die and back in action fast will be what saves this. Ideally it saves the game as they get that through their thick skull and kill full loot and access inventory at all major cities and major landing areas such as main Pyro landing area when you enter to reduce time gates.
Right. The thing where you die and have to spend 10 minutes or more riding trains, running through the same city path, and flying out of the atmosphere is going to put a serious damper on this kind of content. It needs to have respawn points on the map, almost like a mini call of duty stage. Otherwise it'll just be this annoying thing that big orgs lock down and no one else can interact with.
Some are arguing that people with no skill are crying that they are left out, can't wait till they realize the noob groups who accept anyone and have the bodies will be the ones dominating these areas.
Yes, definitely. You could shorten the times so much more by introducing a teleport system for the most important areas. Simply a doorway portal that is located in front of the shopping district, the train station, and the hangars. I mean, the game is set in the future, so this portal technology should fit well into the game setting. As for the shops, it would be enough if you could create your own preset sets with equipment and buy it immediately with one click. The idea and implementation is actually so simple. Respawn ⇾ Teleport to the shopping district ⇾ Buy your equipment with one click ⇾ Teleport to the train station and then take the train or even better, teleport immediately to the hangar ⇾ And you can continue
NO that just turns SC into another crap MMO, with functionally zero risk. You want a quick spawn then you need a org that has the assets to put a ship with a spawn point in place
@@loam4187 NO that just turns SC into another crap MMO, with functionally zero risk. You want a quick spawn then you need a org that has the assets to put a ship with a spawn point in place
The risk is going to vastly outweigh the potential rewards. With DoaSM, you risk losing the gear you bring in and, eventually, just losing all the progress you even have on that character (the big idea for DoaSM), for military grade equipment that you'll lose the second that your ship (which is made of explodium) is destroyed. Content like this goes directly against their idea for DoaSM. "Avoid death at all costs, since it's going to really suck." "Here, have this meat grinder."
Really? Instead of locking the best components behind reputation we´re now locking them behind PvP FPS combat with RNG elements in spawns just so that these locations have a purpose. That purpose is 100% counter to what the gameplay is about but hey at least they have a purpose, right? riiiiiiiiight? I don´t know man, not very happy about this.
@@El1qt I´m not opposed to PvP. I´m opposed to CIG ignoring the reputation system yet again. They´re even locking competition type components behind this, that´s racing. Just why? With this reputation is still just this meaningless number that goes up with zero incentive to do so.
@@BestShifty how do you know what types of components they are locking, how do you know they are ignoring the reputation system. It sounds like you are just assuming everything
Until we get player markets, I am hoping to stack up on components to sell thru my hangar Freight elevator.. I will invite the buyer to a party so they can access my hangar and then i will make sure they have no weapons or gear on at all and then i will call up the component and do the transaction. EZ, they can then send the elevator down inside my hangar and the component is now theirs.
Personally I think that having the only way to get top end components be through a PVP extraction shooter is no good. Personally I would have a way to get the components more reliably at the cost of Greater effort and then have the extraction shooter just to be a high risk High reward way to get them faster
It's kinda pointless CIG adding any PvP centered content worth playing. The only thing preventing every loby right now getting insta killed by hackers is that there just isn't a big enough player base to bother messing with or any content to bring them together. As soon as there is something that players will want to engage in PvP for, hackers are going to show up to ruin people's day.
Unfortunately this is my biggest fear. And it is an issue that sooner or later plagues every popular game. Something drastic needs to happen with Anti Cheat on pc imo.
Play to win is fine only if the game is actually playable 😂 I can already see the mission not spawning NPCs, not updating the mission progress, desync, item you looted fell through the ground or not being able to be picked up again.
And how do we get through these contested zones, when giant orgs are camping the doors? Have you seen the zones lately? I had to wade through stacked bodies to even get to the door. 😂😂😂
Wow, it’s like they have little idea of what the majority of players want. And to have the best stuff come crammed into a PvP territory to force it??? That’s bad design. We will not magically start to want it, and why does a dead wasteland sell better components than Stanton planets who have major trading routes with UEE in the lore??? I’m to accept Microtech has lesser quality things than a station hit by solar flares non stop and held together by tape???? They are throwing ideas at walls and seeing what sticks, I think even they know the studio will flame out and just trying to make it presentable to the inevitable future buyer…probably for the better so they come in and fix it.
I was excited for this until you explained some of the expects that I feel CIG will not be able to regulate. The player's market sounds good in theory, but with CIG's track record, I don't forsee it to be very successful. I hope I am wrong.
@@El1qt Are you? Also a lot of the "ideas" being introduced by CIG are outdated tropes from other MMOs that were bad ideas in those as well! We need the developers to be better than this. CIG seem to be hiring a lot of people from other studios who are bringing over bad habits. Players should not have to do missions or do PVP to acquire these. Everything should be buyable in game including from NPC stores.
Yea no. All items available in stores is terrible game design. Players need to go craft and find/loot the best items in the game. It starting to look like you PVE players are going to need to "get good" if you want the best components lol. I wouldn't worry about it right now. Lets be real, we won't have pyro or these zones for another 2 to 4 years lol.
@@DarkKnight-bu4xu I completely disagree with you. It will still be challenging to get them in a store because they will be VERY expensive so you will need to earn a lot of UEC to get them but players should be able to get access to the same stuff without having to do any missions at all.
LOOKS AMAZING... is not how you make a game tho is it. It's not 'complex' it just doesn't know what it is yet. IDENTITY (n): the difference between Second Life in Space and Wing Commander Online. ;)
Is this actually an upcoming feature or is it the usual devs saying a bunch of stuff in an interview that will be nowhere to be seen for years or completely forgotten about after the next round of employee churn?
This game needs to figure out its identity, its either an Sim MMO or rpg MMO. Its a sim so we NEED all these huge time sink things to ensure its sim enough to please the guys who build fake cockpits, but it needs non sim weapons so you can get loot that makes you stronger, add in that fantasy +1 dmg rifle. So what is it? what game is this trying to be? if its going to be fantasy dont talk about adding an npc shit mechanic, if its going to be a sim then make it a sim, being both wont work, already player count is dropping like crazy. I am interested in seeing just how stupid they can get.
I dont think they -will- adress the issue once shards narrow down Morph. the PvP focused Orgs will rule them leaving out the PvE folks and non-org people. I'll try it once with a friend but i dont relish me being slaughtered becoming part of some one elses gameplay loop
If they intend to lock components inside CZ, then they need to have other concurrent ways of obtaining them, like reputation or exploration or even mission rewards.
I disagree, it's a way for the different player archetypes to interact with each other, so I REALLY hope they don't change that
Insurance needs to change. Claiming a ship should differentiate between: bring ship from another station to here, rescue back my ship from location X where I died, and my ship crashed into the sun I need a new one from scratch.
A factory new ship shouldn't keep custom components. And in turn, ships should not explode randomly and I should be able to get by my custom components and repair them most of the time.
For insurance like that to work, will require your ship to not randomly explode (which won’t happen)
@@LegoJJ Even if they fix that, the game will be filled to the brim with griefers from large orgs. Functionally, the same result.
Hopefully engineering should stop ships from randomly exploding because it's not going to be a big HP pool that explodes when it hits 0, but generators (Fuel, power, life support) to pipes and pipes to components. If a generator, pipe or component is damaged then you lose that, but the ship never explodes unless the reactor has gone critical or IF they can do malestrom, it takes an insane amount of damage for a ship to lose parts.
The main issue right now is physics and desync, as far as I'm aware. maybe the doors appear open to you when they aren't, or you're moving along and suddenly you desync and resync causing your missiles to jump a foot into the geometry of your ship and explode. Not sure if/how they can fix that 100% but at least your ship shouldn't be scuttled when it does.
I think this needs to be their next major focus. Fixing this would be a huge improvement for the game as a whole
What we now have as "insurance" isn't the real planned insurance mechanic anyway. And the real insurance will cover custom components, it just costs extra (yes, even for LTI ships), the custom components will also affect claim times since insurance needs to source them from somewhere.
OTOH if the component is not bought new/certfified refurbished from a store then maybe it cannot be insured (whether it was looted from contested zone or another ship).
Maelstorm and resource network need both to be fully integrated before ships stop blowing up in general, whether caused by physics bugs or desync or just game activity.
"high risk high reward" in gaming means "we're going to straight up give this stuff away to the biggest groups and nobody else"
yep they will be camped by orgs and big groups takeing all the best ship components and weapons
This leaves me cold; I don't think the best of anything should be locked to one game loop.
I think it's good. Military components locked behind violent conflict is reasonable. They just need to do the same with the other components too, like industrial or competition ones. Civilian is what the standard should be and specializing should result in better and more unique advantages
We really need a WoW style "aution house" soon-ish. Ideally separate per system so we still have to shop around a bit.
Sounds fun and I like the best ship components being behind a "dungeon" so I can finally have a rewarding gameplay loop, but I think they'll fall into the development trap that other free-loot MMOs have where zergs always control the Contested Zones.
The contested zones have hard choke points that make it possible to hold off an indefinate amount of people, which is mostly good imho. On the other hand I'd say zergs are fair game, the group with the most people and resources will always come out on top and to break that would ruin the immersion of the game
@@ironwarr Zergs may be fair game but they also usually kill the game. Every MMO that has allowed an alpha zerg control the server has lost its playerbase. It's up to the devs to find solutions to prevent zergs from controlling all resources and all events.
Hoping they do something Tarkov-like and add small but valuable loot worth 5k+ all the way up to some very rare 100k+ doodad. Make it possible to play a "FPS scavenger" kind of role.
Can’t wait, sounds like a lot of fun if they actually do it right and add good incentive
I sure wish this was a space game like advertised, not a stupid extraction shooter
@@loam4187 so the second we have FPS content in a PvP lawless system overruled by gangs its an extraction shooter. Do you know how dumb you sound. People like you ruin this game.
@loam4187 go cry, they adding just 1 optional thing that looks like it, it's not like they are changing the whole game to be an extraction shooter. With that logic starcitizen is more of a flight simulator than a space game
@@loam4187 Then stick to hauling in STanton.
With 3.24 comes the end of "local" storage and looting as we know it. Since we cannot physically carry the ship components and tractor beams do not work outside of landing pads, how are we supposed to move components we loot?
Who says tractor beams don't work outside of landing pads? Are you trying to loot inside a major city or something?
Tractor beams do not work inside hard AZ (this might change at some point), the contested zones are definitely not any kind of AZ.
That is actually a concern, as the area of contested zones are not armstice, but given they are next to the common area, then the common area cannot be armstice as well, otherwise you cannot even tractor to a kiosk. Unless the high value loot are in the asteroid stations where they are abandoned and you can tractor them into your ship parked right outside. But then again, the other people who are trying to reach the same boxes will definitely kill your ship before going in...
@@Basics_of_Gameology Feels very silly to be concerned about that when you don't know anything about the placement of contested zones relative to freight elevators. It might be a terminal like Ghost Hollow, there might be a freight elevator somewhere in the Contested Zone area, etc.,
@@InvictusByz Hopefully so, and that is limited to Grade As and not Bs, if all components are gatekeeped by PvP, imgaine forcing miners to go PvP just for a Civilian Grade A QT drive LMAO
Definitely think this will be a good thing when we have a solid player market but currently it’s too early to block these higher tier components behind PvP.
They should still keep the contested zones but give a monetary reward instead
it’s too early to block these higher tier components behind PvP"
they wont be
Don't worry, they will offer them in the pledge store to, it's CIG 😂
There are much easier way to make credits and once you have everything what is another 50M credits anymore ? There needs to be *something* that is both useful and unattainable in other ways. That said nothing prevents you from hiring some org to get you the components and paying with credits.
When is it "too early" for this game anymore anyway
@@StoneCooldsthey won't
I love the way you shoot B-roll and stitch scenes. It’s always pretty.
So we can basically forget about military components as orgs will camp this for them totally, got it.
Awful idea, tbh, they just need to add EXTRA good components there, not lock military components behind it; reward players who do the activity but do not annoy and add a penalty to players who do not interact with it cig...
You're the only other guy in here who gets it.
As a solo or small group player, you cannot play this content. You'll be blasted out of the sky the second you approach the landing zone. People are severely underestimating what a nightmare these large whale/streamer-led orgs are going to be. They're going to suck all the fun out of the game and I fear CIG will always prioritize *their* fun, because streamers help sell games, and whales buy lots of things in the store.
Well. I kind of agree. What if we land further from the pads and actually use our grounds vehicles to approache the area? It could bring the use of ground vehicles.
That is, if we can even get close to the ground or fly out of the atmosphere if we actually land...
Yeah, more content us smol time players without access to large "friendpools" won't have be able to engage with. x'3 Star Citizen does not cater to the little guy.
I believe this is one way of getting good items quickly, I’m sure they mentioned at citizen con that blue prints that lock to your account can be found through exploring, mission rewards and I think they said PvP but I will have to double check that one,
The blue prints will be to make the high grade weapons, armors, components etc so I think this loop is for a quicker way to obtain them maybe,
The SC community is great so I’m sure there will be people willing to run this with the solo players so you don’t miss out and I will be happy too also, I’m not big on the pvp as mining is my preferred loop but I’ll join in to help obtain the better items :)
If the merchantman is supposed to be a player based place to sell items, the game play for selling items is already thought of and is going to be implemented. Like Salty Mike says: players need to have the responsibility to be able to do more than an npc based market. Imo. Players need to have more than just loot, cargo run, and grief. They need to have black market stalls, bases, farming, crafting, etc. Yes u might need to hit some of these "dungeons" to get the recipe. But still needs to be more in the players hands vs npc controlled everything.
I think some of the loot will be base items. Like mining machines, water collector, etc maybe. I think that makes sense to add to the loot pool.
Having a respawn point next to these PvP locations is, in my view, a bad idea. Think of any extraction shooter where you can respawn and jump right back into the action without external help. When would a fight between two players ever end? Until one of them has to log off because of real-life obligations? Yes, you can respawn in Counter Strike. But such games have different rule sets where a winner is chosen at the end of a match. One of the main interesting parts of an extraction shooter is the fear of losing all your gear. A respawn mechanic next to those locations eliminates that.
Seems more like dayz to me, kill someone on the coast and they'll be running back to get their shit with whatever gun they found on the way. If it's too fast it'll kill it but they didn't seem concerned so we'll see
Really depends on how big the contested zones are. If they take a significant amount of time to traverse, then it's not a big deal.
This will only matter if someone is hell bent on just camping one of the "obvious" entrances (there will be many alternative entrances), all the cool stuff is *deep* and there will be ways to extract without trekking all the way back. Also there are plenty of environmental hazards so a killed player will not be back deep in the zone anytime soon.
@@fwg199430-45 minutes or more has been my experience
I think a good way to address the insurance issue is to simply have insurance not cover them. The whole idea is that these components aren't generally available for sale to the public. So how would the insurance company get one to give you a replacement?
And to balance out the advantage these components give a player, I think as UEE military property, they should be considered illegal contraband. So if a UEE police ship scans you, they're gonna see them and you're gonna have some 'splaining to do. So it'll be pretty risky to have your ship outfitted with them in patrolled space. Or even have them onboard.
Honestly if they do include an Auction House, they need to make it player run, in the way, if you check the AH for an item, you can see where it is sold from, and maybe reserve it by paying the price, then go pick it up, or have players either ship them via other players or AI run crews, which are still prone to be attacked by pirates etc. Otherwhise it kinda defeats the purpose of having the Kraken and BMM with their markets tbh.
Also talking about loot, we need more scanning gameplay, hacking etc. Finding actually random ships, asteroid bases etc in space, where you can potentially hit the jacket and find some great tech.
Contested Zones will become much more careful when Death of a Spaceman eventually arrives, I imagine. I do find it a bit annoying that the top components will be locked behind these PvP missions, but hopefully the future will open other avenues for this i.e. being able to access a special shop when you reach max level with a faction (max CDF gets you the option to purchase Grade A mil components etc.). I'm definitely a PvE player who greatly prefers ship-based activity over FPS gameplay, and it would be nice to be able to trick out my racing ship to top spec without having to visit a black market.
I think they're well aware of most of the issues you mentioned. We'll see how they choose to deal with them though.
You should be able to buy all this stuff in stores, make them rare sure but don't make the best stuff exclusive to one gameplay loop! Hell there probably should be a tinkering / upgrading loop to improve components you own anyway
"You should be able to buy all this stuff in stores" nah
Bro then where is the progression? if I can just go to a station and buy it there’s not any challenge and it’s definitely not rare. I get maybe being able to craft them, but we need real rewards for real challenges not just money.
@@echo5827why not? Make it something that you can buy when you build up reputation with the UEE, and then this loop will be the way the unlawful players acquire the same gear. It provides 2 ways of acquiring the gear for 2 possibly competing players.
@@Arbyfig if they do that then it should be at the highest level of rep.
Why not just pay a player who enjoys PvP to go and get one from Pyro for you? Why take away other players jobs to have the item in stores which would diminish the very activity of going to a location to get one @@Arbyfig
I DEFINITELY agree that they need to do the insurance re-do ASAP. I do think, however, that it needs to coincide with the game being stable enough (both with bugs and with design) that we are much less likely to suddenly lose our ships. So that would require at least ship armor, resource network, maybe even Maelstrom, as well as game stability. One of the reasons they even changed insurance to cover ship components is because they (thankfully) relented when it was pointed out that you could randomly lose your ship from any number of bugs and issues, not to mention the fast TTK there was back then.
So just another thing on the board of "needs to all come together somewhat simultaneously" but I definitely do look forward to the day where we are more likely to be disabled and then later repair, and not having insurance cover our components anymore. It will make going out feel extremely visceral when you've got a ship completely buffed out. Really excited for that.
These Contested Zones should be dynamic like those dynamic worm holes, where they will just last for a certain time and then you have to find or track to find new ones. This way it will be less monopolized
how would they solve that lore wise? makes literally 0 sense, they're super cool as is
As someone who tends to play solo and not be too big into PVP, I have immediately given up on this content as something I won't be able to participate in. Those rewards just won't be accessible to me.
For everyone who can participate, though, I genuinely hope they have fun with it.
Maybe some contested zones should have their very own server shard, mixing players across different servers, so that teaming up with others becomes impossible. Like this you could have some of the contested zones being something like “solo dungeons”. This could be done for example by limiting the number of persons in an airlock that leads to a contested zone, where you are then being transferred to the dedicated contested zone server. This would require server meshing to work though
Sounds like mini 'Tarkov raids' combined with dungeons from your typical MMOs. People forget Tarkov is an MMO with the extraction mechanic.. It has crafting, flea market, missions, reputation, etc.
now if only CIG could learn what good gunplay feels like...
What I thought sounded cool was when they said there's freight elevators in these raids, so I'm assuming you could extract gear or if you found a bunch of cargo or ship components or something load it then send it out and when you get back to your personal hanger (hideout) split up the loot or sell it or whatever. Basically a physicalized tarkov but in the context of star citizen ends up sounding pretty cool to me. Some people will just farm that as a gameplay loop, it's a good idea honestly
It's lifted directly from The Division Dark Zones.
Tarkov is even an MMORPG with its stupidly broken leveling mechanics
@@echo5827 ngl, SCs gunplay feels pretty damn good atm, when servers are working ofc
I don't really think these tunnels with a reward at the end are really going to cut it though. I'll play through it for the reward but the "maps" don't exactly look amazing and I don't know if there is enough skill expression or technique in Star Citizen to allow one solos to take on four man squads in FPS content like they can in Tarkov.
It looks kind of like you run into each other in a corridor and whichever team has more players likely has the last man standing and then he goes around an revives all his buddies so they can all walk down to the only item of interest on the "map". Hopefully I'm wrong I just don't suddenly trust Star Citizen to be a good FPS game.
Honestly any game that takes spraying to kill people, has revives, team markers, fps scanning, etc is just going to be very numbers based over all. Tarkov is one of the only games that gets around this but most casual gamers wouldn't be willing to support that kind experience.
SC: Oh i know what will get pvp pilot fighters back... a first person shooter loop for them to get their gear. Fml, when are they going to develop incentive game loops for pilots to swarm an area for the same thing? anything, like maybe random UEE patrols to track and take out for sweet components?
Bro... just because they made an FPS focused gameplay loop doesn't mean that they'll ignore fighter pilots. I find it funny that people complain about literally everything, including the good stuff they bring in
I hate this idea... its removing good tier stuff so we fight over it... instead of doing unique items
Or PvE forcing exploration that may not once even ever need PvP, but a chance for all players to go seek out things via exploration either solo or with friends.
This is why I stopped pledging when they added in death penalties. Why give more to a game that is actively trying to go out of business.
Well, what will happen is here is that big orgs will lock the locations down and sell the components on the market. So, you can still get it but you just have to be purchasing it like you would anything else.
The economy in this game looks like it will be incredibly inflated, so it might just be permanently out of reach of solo or small group players
I agree... it would be nice to go out and find these locations. The way they are planning it is more of a "this is my shard, my location with org X, no one can have it" basically farming the location and selling at higher prices within the game. Makes it tough, however I guess this is what they are aiming for.
I love that we're getting this rather than full bounty hunting or full science or full farming or...This isn't new game play. These are PvP maps. CIG aren't implementing game play at all and it's really disconcerting. Shouldn't all this game play have been waiting on Server Meshing to implement?
I feel like right now CIG is focused on things that will force people to group up. This is probably because they saw legitimacy in the critique that most current tasks in the game are solo. Sometime I also wonder if they think this will take a little weight off of them needing to design content. Surely when a game is kind of a slug like Star Citizen having other people around could make the time spent go a little quicker or maker it more enjoyable... Or maybe PvP adds a challenge without devs needing to design various enemy types, encounters, and challenges.
My hot take on the idea that there is going to be a space where you need to have friends is good. The game is meant to be social, to be played in larger quantities. We see it with ships, and I think seeing it in places like this is going to be key.
CIG has always wanted to avoid wipes where possible, but there will *definitely* be more wipes in the future. At least two points are absolutely certain: Entering beta and entering full release 1.0 (those of course are very far away still).
Whether 4.0 will have a wipe is a big question, but to truly test how Pyro affects economies etc I don't see how they could avoid a wipe, OTOH it would be pretty soon after the previous one which would be annoying to say the least so maybe they will wait for some more things to come fully integrated before wiping (maybe a third star system).
6:39 question “cig doesn’t want any more wipes “ is that for the alpha? And what are the chances of a wipe before finel release?
the intention is no more wipes from now to release and beyond
I'd imagine one wipe now and one wipe when it releases
Well... if there is good ship stuff there, and if it's not aways there, this means that... at least from my pov, that there's no reason to actually have any kind of warning that they are there right now. I mean... the fun part of an exploration is that you never know if there will be good stuff waiting for you, but there could be good stuff there, so that's why you are exploring the area in first place. So... if they add some sort of mission that pops up in our mobiglas, like you said, that would be a shame.
Let's gate stuff folk might want behind forced combat. So no prospect of "peqaceful means" then.
Nice deep dive :)
they hopefully implement some of those things sooner or later ...
WTF? Locking the only decent components being random timers and gatekept in a major PvP area? That sounds really great.
If something was easy to obtain, how would it have any value? It wouldn’t. Stop complaining
@@El1qt Its not that its hard to obtain, its that there's suddenly a player element preventing people from getting the loot they need to handle the player element that's gatekeeping the loot.
Without any other method to obtain the equipment that is offered through this (especially the time gating element), it means that suddenly there's a major power imbalance in terms of gear between a player who is skilled at and wants to pvp and a player who isnt skilled at and doesn't want to pvp. Suddenly PVP orgs hold ALL the power in the game, and players will get to decide who does and doesn't get to vertically progress. Its 100% a shit show waiting to happen.
How do I know this is going to happen? It happens in games like Ark, Rust, and Last Oasis. Big groups take over all the good loot spots, and you either join them or you don't get to play. And joining the big group means you are often relegated to base moms and free labor in order to get anywhere. Its just a protection racket.
@@ThreeGoddessesso to sum up what your saying is that you are complaining about a skill issue, and you are complaining that it is hard for solo players, cool. This game was never meant to be solo player friendly, have you seen the ship designs. You require multiple crew members. I dont know who told you this is a solo player game.
Also your first argument literally just sounds like you’re complaining that you aren’t good enough to kill other players. Do you know it’s fine if you cant kill them. It just means you will have to buy it from them. I dont know why thats a bad thing as it creates an economy
@@El1qt Seems great on paper until you remember that this type of content will be functionally locked by large orgs. If you're solo or in a small group, you might as well think of this content as not existing.
It creates an economy catered to the lucky few who will gatekeep a timed drop in specific areas. If you can't see where that will lead or even Morphs note of caution on the subject you are very optimistic. Sorry I've seen this type of thing way back in Everquest days, it will not end well.
In the June Monthly report they did talk about
"Furthermore, the team progressed with potential features for Alpha 4.0. This included significant overhauls to the mission and marker systems as well as the development of the player-trade functionality, which align with the overarching objective of achieving Server Meshing."
While its Potential, we will see if its in the roadmap so we can have less of "WE NEED PLAYER TRADE" and more "YOU TALKED ABOUT PLAYER TRADE WHEN?"
Hopefully meshing works well enough, that people can complete these missions without too much loss. It's bad enough when you wipe in a dungeon, but doing so due to a server issue, is far worse.
I love the idea of contested zones. The part that is rubbing me the wrong way is locking the best ship components into loot for it. Its basically locking one style of game play behind a different style of game play. Its an FPS style loop so the rewards should be FPS focused not ship focused.
I like doing ship combat, hauling, racing and just flying ships that's why I pledged. Being put at a disadvantage and killing what little progression i have because they needed loot for a FPS game play loop is going to kill the game for me.
This gameloop sponsored by Permadeath™
(home from a day at work) "Ahhh, time to play some Star Citizen. Oh, looks like a rare component is spawning!"
- Spend 25 minutes flying to the location
"Huh, its lagging a little bit. I wonder why"
- sees like 50 hornets all from the same org led by some streamer
"Oh shit, thats a lot of missiles
- Fucking dies
"Welp, I don't have the time to claim my ship, fly back there, and then just die again before even seeing the landing zone. Guess I'll play something else"
This will spell doom for the MMO side of this game
Star Citizen is evolving into bug invested Fortnite without that fun aspect. Money is the only interest that Cig has.
@@loam4187this is a good thing, just get good
Yes, honestly I think the death of a spaceman concept is going to be scrapped.
This game loop is sponsored by the death of DoaSM
With all this PVP. We need a hands up or I surrender hand signals to appeal to mercy gameplay.
Something to encourage social gameplay besides destroying.
im happy for this as i can careless for PVP and if me buying stuff from pvpers makes me friends with them , thats the absolute coolest loop of the game and im excited for these changes. im happy to be a space weed farmer and pay my dues :P
imagine farmers making dope food items that have these players that come to trade want to come back for more food! that would also be a great extension when it comes haha
This may work if they introduce a player market. I particurlaly think it is a bad idea to pvp block the best ship components. They should be still acessible. The contested version could have alternate or experimental versions, while the shops sell stock, but still good pieces.
Well, let's test it out and see how it goes.
I keep trying to leep in mind that SC is still in alpha and basically just QA testing while they are building the game. I like to think these contested zones loops, components, and perma death, will change closer to 1.0 release
it's just a bunker, the stuff they didn't want to talk about is probably something from sq 42 or something. Or just railguns, or something else they made rare in recent past.
I thought the community was thinking it would be basebuilding, crazy how nobody seems to remember that now and is just hyped for bunker 2.0.
When we went from bunker to distro centers, everyone was like it's a cool place but it's the same boring missions.
when we only saw the distro's we were like oh i see the first roads this means we will be driving, they are huuuge. you can land there, endless possibilities. you name it.
That's exactly what this will be like i think.
you aint watch scl did you
The issue with this is if it IS event advertised, its forcing pvp to get the loot you need to survive avoiding pvp. They need to have other ways to get that kind of loot, otherwise people who are less skilled at pvp or don't want to actively engage in it will ALWAYS be a leg down over those who ARE skilled at pvp and actively engage with it. We do not want that kind of imbalance. This is a problem with hiding the best gear behind pvp; it becomes inaccessible.
I wont mind it, though, if they introduce other, more pve focused means of acquiring this gear for other game loops. Exploration, for example, with its enhanced scanners and long range ships should be out there exploring ruins and caves and finding hidden alien artifacts and technology, on top of the other things (selling info and POIs is not as fun as you would think, we explorers NEED something else there to explore outside of just gliding over a surface or coasting through an asteroid field). Salvage crews should be recovering and refurbishing that gear as part of the process (how cool would it be for a vulture to stumble across an experimental scorpius that has a bleeding edge quantum drive?). And of course, both of those loops could create blueprints to sell to the manufacturing players (when that comes, if ever) so they can modify and craft them to sell into the market.
Because they have said time and again that star citizen is NOT a pvp game, its a PVE game WITH PVP. And if the ONLY way to get the chase gear is to PVP, then it stops being PVE with PVP, it becomes PVP with PVE. And there IS a distinction to be had there.
PvP skill will have absolutely nothing to do with this. This type of content will be 100% locked down and farmed by large orgs.
@@loam4187 pvp skill will absolutely play a large part in this because even if a large org shuts down the location, they need to be able to hold it. And an org that can't pvp well won't be holding it effectively or for long
5:46 Yep, as a solo player I feel pretty alienated by this. Pretty soon I'll be relegated to farming.
I’m personally excited to get the chance to take on larger groups as a solo PVPer. It’s all about tactics or teaming up with random solo players to get a better advantage.
I wonder how CIG will manage the scenario of Real Money for In-Game Assets, IE: selling "special loot" on platforms like Ebay?
There doesn't appear to be a plan for that. I can't even imagine a plan that works.
The existence of whales of this magnitude kind of kills the economic side of the game.
I share those concerns about issues and problems that might occure when a single group decides to cut off players from thise areas consitently.
About keeping the loop interesting, yes they might want to rethink insurance. HOWEVER, we are still in alpha and nothing you do and gain in 4.0 stays beyond release version 1.0. So there is at least ONE certain wipe. There is no other way. So no more wipes in alpha.... yes. Important for the game as a released game, no. That is why we test this in alpha to make sure those loops stay viable.
You gotta give this new loot a price so makes you wanna go back to a marketplace to sell it for a large amount. A profitable amount would give you the reason to go back.
Super excited, Dark Zone gameplay from Division gives you a special feeling and experience of success. But as you said, how is insurance working on those components? How do you get them out of the zone by the way? I assume we will loot blueprints once 1.0 hits the servers and for now it is components and stuff. How are they balance the group play and the rewards?
@@GW2Vids1 latest video shows you, check it out! They have a clever system for it.
They’ve raised 800million, they have more than enough to develop and improve this game
Eventually they probably will have whole PVE systems, with crime stats for any PVP. You want PVE only, go to one of those systems. When they are released of course 😊
As a solo player pvp always screws the game up for you. Items that work for pve will get nerfed because of some pvp reason, groups will hoard equipment and even if there was a market it would get persuaded by those items you have no hope of getting. For a game I've been distancing myself with, I think this might actually be the death knell for me. Just give me my solo game.
Any instance like gameplay loop to suck in all those griefers is very welcome. keep them busy in some kind of playground for difficult people so that the rest of the game is free
i just assume stolen or "found" military grade components will NOT be covered by your insurance? Only components that has been legally bought will?
I wanted space station extraction looter shooter for so many years. I can´t believe CIG is just adding one into Star Citizen.
I can only assume that high end components will also be attainable in a multitude of other ways down the line, but this will suck in the short term to have them locked behind exclusively a single activity. That said, I also feel like these contested zones are really going against the whole idea of death of a spaceman. In fact, a lot of gameplay loops they are talking about is beginning to feel this way. Seems like that either is going to need reworked, or scrapped at this point.
can see them showing up in salvage wrecks as cargo or even pulled from the ship
Once death really means something, nobody will want to do this sort of thing outside of a big group.
unless the p4-ar becomes a loot able item I think the best weapon for PVP will be safe
CIG failing the base once again
The base is whales. This content serves whales just fine, as they'll be the ones with big orgs dedicating to feeding them this kind of loot.
They need to re-work insurance to no longer cover non-stock parts. It fixes the loop for the contested zones.
I feel like most are missing that they are very subtly dipping their toes in live real time, player ran warfare. I forgot which ISC or QnA it was but I am sure I heard someone mention that on a 1.0 version of the game, there will be 5-6 full star systems and some locations between systems as well, and it will all be player ran from the economy (haulers and salvagers) to the diplomacy to the science and even warfare. It was at least two years ago but I remember it perfectly because that was the moment I realised EVE: Online and Star Citizen are essentially the exact same game concept just executed very differently, meaning (if it ever comes) the 1.0 launch version of Star Citizen.
There will be no player run economy, you got it backwards. There will be at least 10 NPCs/Quanta (backend simulator lightweight "NPC" not instanced into the world) for every player. Of course a *large* org might be able to seriously influence economy in some backwater system *for a little while*. Player actions in aggregate will have an effect on the world (especially regarding the lines of war with Vanduul) but they will not be driving anything.
@@EeroafHeurlin You are speaking of the alpha my friend, not the launch version.
While there will be 10 NPCs to each player, (they actually said 100) what if in a player corporation, a single player employs 10,000 NPCs?
@@empyrean-jamelgreaves8034 You cannot have NPCs captaining/piloting your ships so how would any hired NPCs beyond what is needed to crew a ship change the situation ? That one player can still only have the effect of a single capital class hauler on the economy.
CIG is so creatively bankrupt. Their idea of fun is timers. We have ship timers, we have loading cargo timers, now we have timers for missions. Might as well have a timer to just log into the game. I LOVE WATCHING THE NUMBERS GO DOWN UNTIL I CAN HAVE FUN.
Hi, can anyone help me out here.
I briefly tried Star Citizen in November of 2022, and I feel like people were talking about 4.0 update "coming soon" then... am I just imagining that or remembering wrong?
I know this kind of comment might come across sarcastic or snide online, but I promise it's not, I just am a bit confused and feel like my mind is playing tricks on me 😅 thank you
I been following it from the beginning, i don't think you are imagining. I don't know when we heard about 4.0 for the first time exactly though.
@@pimvanduijne ahh ok, thank you for letting me know!
As someone who has never played such immersive sim games before and always uses a controller, I found it really difficult to change to a mouse and keyboard.
I have a one handed keypad thing and still couldn't find a way of mapping that to best suit what felt like many many many controls 😅
I might try again though when 4.0 actually happens, seems like it is a big deal to the users.
You're right. The speed of development of this game is glacial. You aren't seeing a live release within another decade **at least**
Not sure what the final system will end up being, but I patently disagree with a derelict/pirate system having top-tier military-grade stuff locked behind PVP when that system is also lawless. Until/Unless there are alternative options for people who don't want to engage that system/PVP. (Even an AH will be a "good enough" avoidance avenue). I'd be fine with piracy-specific components, like something that goes into one of those un-used "avionics" slots that does [lampshade things] to make your cargo resistant to scanning. Or something that is related to the gameplay loop you engage to get it So for PVP in pyro, a combat-tuned fuses? Multi-use crypto key? Weekly/monthly/quarterly/annual-reset IFF Inverter spawn that can be used for players to triggered the SoO mission? Just have it launch automatically on a schedule if nobody picks it up--hedge for playercount falloff and mitigate "dead" game areas/content. Evergreen content.
But yeah, flesh out the game and alternative loops before we start soft-locking content behind loops that only a niche audience likes engaging with. I have no problems with wanting to funnel people into it so you can actually get some testing done to get things balanced how you want them. The reward isn't the issue for people that don't like PVP, its the barrier to entry and the consequence of failure. If you want people to test the contested zone, then 1) actually communicate with your playerbase, who have an over-abundance of Bacherlor's and Master's degrees, compared to a lot of other games out there (see: just be transparent and honest and if they don't understand they will ask and).... and 2) consider reducing the punsihment for failure, add handicaps; branch/fork a server built specifically to test the area/mode/feature, but won't impact (see: take away from) the gains made during regular play 3) come to terms with the fact that MOST people do not want to pvp (especially in a game where losing has lasting consequences that impacts PVE experience or convenience), and even less are good at it to a high level.
I like the idea, but if 4.0 doesn’t include a wipe, the drive will be diluted. Many players have large stocks of equipment and components.
I'm not a PvPer, but I like this. It creates a market, I won't go into the PvP zones but I would be willing to buy the components from someone. That's something I thing the game needs, trading, uncommon components or modded ones. The "I know a guy" or "I know the NPC" type of thing. Looks cool, tho.
I'm not against PvP. I love PvP in Tarkov... Now with Star Citizen's FPS gameplay probably not. 😅 I'd probably just keep it to flight combat in Star Citizen but that seems like it's going to be a little heavily numbers and ship based in master modes now too.
It's not like the Prospector is able hear someone coming, hide, and get a cheeky headshot on the F8C looking for him. Or have a chance in skillfully maneuvering around and fighting back.
It would be cool too if the content is hard enough that people want to group up to improve there chances of success but this won't really be possible if you can't both get the loot. It sounds like you just need to run a 10 man squad, kill all the smaller groups, and rerun it over and over until everyone in your group has the part.
Insurance should just pay in cash like it would IRL or in EVE. That means it's still risky to bring out your collector items and making destruction of things more permanent. But you can always go buy a new one with your pay out
@MetaphorLi91 ???? I think you replied to the wrong person lol
Die and back in action fast will be what saves this. Ideally it saves the game as they get that through their thick skull and kill full loot and access inventory at all major cities and major landing areas such as main Pyro landing area when you enter to reduce time gates.
Right. The thing where you die and have to spend 10 minutes or more riding trains, running through the same city path, and flying out of the atmosphere is going to put a serious damper on this kind of content.
It needs to have respawn points on the map, almost like a mini call of duty stage. Otherwise it'll just be this annoying thing that big orgs lock down and no one else can interact with.
Some are arguing that people with no skill are crying that they are left out, can't wait till they realize the noob groups who accept anyone and have the bodies will be the ones dominating these areas.
Yes, definitely. You could shorten the times so much more by introducing a teleport system for the most important areas.
Simply a doorway portal that is located in front of the shopping district, the train station, and the hangars. I mean, the game is set in the future, so this portal technology should fit well into the game setting. As for the shops, it would be enough if you could create your own preset sets with equipment and buy it immediately with one click. The idea and implementation is actually so simple.
Respawn ⇾ Teleport to the shopping district ⇾ Buy your equipment with one click ⇾ Teleport to the train station and then take the train or even better, teleport immediately to the hangar ⇾ And you can continue
NO that just turns SC into another crap MMO, with functionally zero risk. You want a quick spawn then you need a org that has the assets to put a ship with a spawn point in place
@@loam4187 NO that just turns SC into another crap MMO, with functionally zero risk. You want a quick spawn then you need a org that has the assets to put a ship with a spawn point in place
The risk is going to vastly outweigh the potential rewards. With DoaSM, you risk losing the gear you bring in and, eventually, just losing all the progress you even have on that character (the big idea for DoaSM), for military grade equipment that you'll lose the second that your ship (which is made of explodium) is destroyed. Content like this goes directly against their idea for DoaSM. "Avoid death at all costs, since it's going to really suck." "Here, have this meat grinder."
Really?
Instead of locking the best components behind reputation we´re now locking them behind PvP FPS combat with RNG elements in spawns just so that these locations have a purpose.
That purpose is 100% counter to what the gameplay is about but hey at least they have a purpose, right? riiiiiiiiight?
I don´t know man, not very happy about this.
If it was easy to obtain, what would be the value behind the components? Just go play another game if you aren’t happy with PvP
@@El1qt I´m not opposed to PvP. I´m opposed to CIG ignoring the reputation system yet again.
They´re even locking competition type components behind this, that´s racing. Just why?
With this reputation is still just this meaningless number that goes up with zero incentive to do so.
@@El1qt The thing is, it will be easy to obtain - for big org leaders, which means whales and streamers. Just more pay to win.
@@BestShifty how do you know what types of components they are locking, how do you know they are ignoring the reputation system. It sounds like you are just assuming everything
There is no indication that we won't have both. I am fairly certain you will be able to get decent gear with rep/pve, too.
Until we get player markets, I am hoping to stack up on components to sell thru my hangar Freight elevator.. I will invite the buyer to a party so they can access my hangar and then i will make sure they have no weapons or gear on at all and then i will call up the component and do the transaction. EZ, they can then send the elevator down inside my hangar and the component is now theirs.
Personally I think that having the only way to get top end components be through a PVP extraction shooter is no good. Personally I would have a way to get the components more reliably at the cost of Greater effort and then have the extraction shooter just to be a high risk High reward way to get them faster
If those military components are made to wear down players have a reason to return. I think the big danger is having orgs hoarding.
It's kinda pointless CIG adding any PvP centered content worth playing. The only thing preventing every loby right now getting insta killed by hackers is that there just isn't a big enough player base to bother messing with or any content to bring them together. As soon as there is something that players will want to engage in PvP for, hackers are going to show up to ruin people's day.
Hey at least it's not free to play. That's an open invitation to cheaters.
How exactly are they hacking? How can you tell? Serious question.
100%
Well that can be said for anything, so with that logic you should never play an online game because the potential "hackers"
Unfortunately this is my biggest fear. And it is an issue that sooner or later plagues every popular game. Something drastic needs to happen with Anti Cheat on pc imo.
This sounds like CIG hates fun.
Play to win is fine only if the game is actually playable 😂
I can already see the mission not spawning NPCs, not updating the mission progress, desync, item you looted fell through the ground or not being able to be picked up again.
Can’t wait until we can buy the same loot with real money on the pledge store
People complaining about CIG funneling players into new test content smh my head
I'm glad they're making loot (and compenents) have more meaning!
The insurance will cover these special components but you cannot buy them anywhere? That's pretty weird
I’ve long been a fan of and motivated in the pursuit of components, but fk that sht.
There's no point to any of this as long as it plays like poop due to terrible server performance...
And how do we get through these contested zones, when giant orgs are camping the doors? Have you seen the zones lately? I had to wade through stacked bodies to even get to the door. 😂😂😂
Wow, it’s like they have little idea of what the majority of players want. And to have the best stuff come crammed into a PvP territory to force it??? That’s bad design. We will not magically start to want it, and why does a dead wasteland sell better components than Stanton planets who have major trading routes with UEE in the lore??? I’m to accept Microtech has lesser quality things than a station hit by solar flares non stop and held together by tape????
They are throwing ideas at walls and seeing what sticks, I think even they know the studio will flame out and just trying to make it presentable to the inevitable future buyer…probably for the better so they come in and fix it.
I was excited for this until you explained some of the expects that I feel CIG will not be able to regulate. The player's market sounds good in theory, but with CIG's track record, I don't forsee it to be very successful. I hope I am wrong.
Nice vid.
I disagree with this.
ALL items should be available to buy in NPC stores. They might be expensive, but they should be purchasable
Amazing thing you aren’t a game dev my friend.
@@El1qt Are you?
Also a lot of the "ideas" being introduced by CIG are outdated tropes from other MMOs that were bad ideas in those as well!
We need the developers to be better than this.
CIG seem to be hiring a lot of people from other studios who are bringing over bad habits.
Players should not have to do missions or do PVP to acquire these.
Everything should be buyable in game including from NPC stores.
@@barnigranero5882what's the point of earning anything right?
Yea no. All items available in stores is terrible game design. Players need to go craft and find/loot the best items in the game. It starting to look like you PVE players are going to need to "get good" if you want the best components lol. I wouldn't worry about it right now. Lets be real, we won't have pyro or these zones for another 2 to 4 years lol.
@@DarkKnight-bu4xu I completely disagree with you. It will still be challenging to get them in a store because they will be VERY expensive so you will need to earn a lot of UEC to get them but players should be able to get access to the same stuff without having to do any missions at all.
LOOKS AMAZING... is not how you make a game tho is it. It's not 'complex' it just doesn't know what it is yet. IDENTITY (n): the difference between Second Life in Space and Wing Commander Online. ;)
It doesn't lack gameplay, it lacks stability.
Is this actually an upcoming feature or is it the usual devs saying a bunch of stuff in an interview that will be nowhere to be seen for years or completely forgotten about after the next round of employee churn?
This game needs to figure out its identity, its either an Sim MMO or rpg MMO. Its a sim so we NEED all these huge time sink things to ensure its sim enough to please the guys who build fake cockpits, but it needs non sim weapons so you can get loot that makes you stronger, add in that fantasy +1 dmg rifle. So what is it? what game is this trying to be? if its going to be fantasy dont talk about adding an npc shit mechanic, if its going to be a sim then make it a sim, being both wont work, already player count is dropping like crazy. I am interested in seeing just how stupid they can get.
Lets gooooo play 2 win
Even server fps is not even that stable to support smooth FPS experience. They better improve server stability
Star Citizen, Death of Creativity.
Cant wait.
I dont think they -will- adress the issue once shards narrow down Morph. the PvP focused Orgs will rule them leaving out the PvE folks and non-org people. I'll try it once with a friend but i dont relish me being slaughtered becoming part of some one elses gameplay loop
Is the atrocious server performance fixed in 3.24?????
Pyro: World of WarCitizen