Hey y'all. Just watched episode regarding buckled door jamb. Might should wait until spring thaw before repairing. If you fix while still frozen it might revert to original position when thawed and you could have to do another fix. Love your program. A big fan from Otto, NC (Western Carolina Mountains)
I’m a contractor grew up helping build pole barns and still do it today at 55 I’m still a contractor… You are 100% 💯 correct on the door frame prob… not a hard fix, just a nuisance because it should have been done when built… Step… (1) remove ext. metal sheathing (2) cut pole free and remove (3) auger/post hole deeper (4) replace with new longer post *( post must tie into top plate (beam/header) as well) (5) reset metal sheathing (5) reset metal sheath
Okay when you was fueling up you said that it was the end of February so I had to back up and listen again think you meant to say January though it was funny
Wyatt9548...... I'm not a builder at all, but I have to tell you you're wrong. Here are the correct stops..... Step 1: Call contractor that built building to have them come and fix it. 😁
@ calling the contractor is exactly what to do first, and they should have no problem fixing it because it should have been done on original build time…so it should be no cost to owner. But the steps I mentioned for repair are not wrong sir…
As an amateur, agree 100% with this solution. Longer post would be connected to the top in the same manner the main posts are. Fairly low $$ on material’s, mostly the time needed being the challenge.
Mike, I would just pull off the door casing on the interior, left side of the door, then use a reciprocating saw and 6” demo blade between the exposed door jamb and jack stud to sever the connecting nails holding the door jamb to the 6x6. If necessary, pull the door casing off the top of the door too, and - with the top and left side jams exposed you can use a pry bar (36” long) to pry the left side jamb back down into place. I’d leave the trim off until the spring, but cutting the connection between the door jamb and post should prevent further damage.
With my phone, I can zoom in on your reveal across the top of your door. The reveal is normal on the hinge side but wide on your doorknob side. That means what I told you last time. Water is getting under your threshold or, under your concrete. With the short post, it appears to be going up. If icing is heaving your concrete you will have a hard time doing a repair that will last. I don't know how far your stem under your door goes down. It sounds like your pier footing is 42"down. If your stem does not tie into your piers you are going to have more problems. If the stem under your post frame is shallow you will need to be tied to your piers and your stem on the bottom sloped to a point. That way the ice can't push up on the stem in between.
🇨🇦Mike, ive been a General Contractor for 30+ yrs and what your saying sounds correct except for the fact that there is no issues on the interior which is a bit of a head scratcher. Any time I've got a call for problems like this on post and beam construction there is an issue on the interior as well such as nails or screws popping or in your case the metal on the inside bottom of the wall should be showing the same problem. BTW, i live in BC Canada and get the same temperature fluctuations as your area. As u said, i would definitely wait till it is significantly warmer and all the frost had come out of the ground to see how it reacts. Cant wait to see what transpires. Cheers from Canada 🇨🇦 Edit, put a black felt mark on the center of the latch and where that corresponds on the strike plate today so u can monitor it as temperatures fluctuate.
By looking at the pictures you had on this video - I believe you are correct about the door. That beam should have been as tall as the opposite side of the door and attached to the top beam. You might call the builder to see if they have any suggestions. Stay safe.
I think your spot on mike. I also noticed that post on that side of the door doesn't extend all the way up to the framing at top of the wall. Maybe had a hinge affect with no door Header and just door being framed to purlin. Pole building probably doesn't need a conventional header due to poles holding the weight but if it had one and the pole extended all the way up on the one side of door it may limit flex from shallow hole and limit freeze and thaw issues.
Mike, don’t worry about fixing the door trim until Spring. As you know in SWPA the freeze/ thaw cycles continue until March, and will keep that post heaving out of the ground until then. If you replace the trim now you’ll only have to do it again in March. Also remember, once a post heaves up during a freeze, it won’t sink back down once the ground thaws. One thing that may help keep the door from really getting jammed up is to get your recip saw between the frame and post and cut the nails( Be careful not to punch through the exterior metal). Then use your Dremel to cut vertical slots into the frame, then drive new nails in through the slots near the bottom of the slot. That way as the post heaves out, the nail holding the door frame will ride up the slot, while the door frame is held in place by the rest of the frame and the weight of the building. It’s similar to how vinyl siding is attached to sheathing.
Should have done concrete piers with Mid-West Perma Column wet set brackets. With the floor already poured and the way the posts are in the ground, you could take all your tin off and try to build a substantial header between two posts you know are below the frost line and that are good. You could also try to remove that short post and dig a 48" hole, fill it with concrete, replace the post using a bracket, and replacing all your metal and trim. Should of never happened to begin with, but that's in the past.
You need to extend the short post all the way to the top and it will hold that post down from frost jacking,but you will have to wait till summer to fix it.
Mike I don’t think it’s the post. I believe it’s the slab heaving on the latch side of the door. If the post was heaving it would take the metal with it and therefore it wouldn’t be deforming. Unless the purlins aren’t attached to the jamb side post.
That post on the strike side of the door is the localized problem. You are correct Mike. If you had moisture under ground it would be more evenly distributed and would affect several posts if not the entire building. Problems begin to appear with sustained temps below zero. At 10 below and colder problems rapidly appear as stresses build. At 15-20 below that is extreme. Septic systems begin freezing and lots of trouble manifests. You should be able to adjust and align things when winter is over. I suggest hooking up a heat source to your radiant floor system and warm up your slab in future years during extreme (below zero sustained) weather to stabilize the floor system. Your wood stove works well but your slab and perimeter in that part of the building are too far away. The moderate air temp in that area is not enough when it is 10 below. Not suggesting you switch over to full time radiant heat throughout the building but just a loop or two in that end of the building during severe winters.
Mike I think your right about that short beam on that door. It should've been tied to the header that supports all the rafters. All your other doors that I can see each side of the door those beams go all the way to the header on top. I don't know why the put the short one in maybe they ran out of beams. I don't have experience with pole barns so take that with a grain of salt, but when you have those set in the ground with freezing and thawing going on. 3 stringers aren't going to do a whole lot to stabilize that. With the pictures you have you should be able to make a case with the company that built it and have them fix it, and if not, you know what to do. You haven't had any problems with any of the other doors either. JMO. Just a note I was a contractor and owned my own construction company years ago.
I live in northern Mn. We see this often when we hit 20-30 below zero for long periods of time. One of the easy fixes we use when building pole buildings is after we bury the poles we put two inch foam down about a foot in the ground two feet out around the perimeter of the building. This will stop all frost from ever penetrating deep enough to cause the poles or concrete from frost heaving.
I added a porch several years ago to my home in Morris (Northwest CT). My concrete form tubes were all of 42 inches deep. A 10 day cold snap (below 0) came and lifted the porch along with the roof. My dear friend (we're both now in our 70's) who has built more than 600 homes mentioned he's seen the frost actually grab hold of the concrete and lift it as if it (frost) wrapped its arms around the concrete piers and lifted it. This could have happened to the singular door post. My $0.02
Mike we have had problems like you are having with the door. We fixed ours by replacing the concrete slab on the outside. And when we replaced it we poured the concrete on 2" of foam sheeting. It stopped our heaving problem. So, every time we are putting in a slab of concrete on the outside of a building we are using 2" foam insulation.
I’m a contractor grew up helping build pole barns and still do it today at 55 I’m still a contractor… You are 100% 💯 correct on the door frame prob… not a hard fix, just a nuisance because it should have been done when built…
@wyatt9548 I would agree with you. As part of the fix, I'd suggest extending that shorty post up to the perimeter beam, so any uplift/heave would be resisted by the roof structure like the rest of the posts. It seems to me that shorty is free to lift independently of the rest of the building, hence the differential settlement/heave. Would you agree that fix might reduce the chance of this occurring again in the future? Mike could probably try to do the fix from the outside by removing the cladding and scabbing on an extension with some significant Simpson Strong-Tie strapping to mitigate potential buckling at the joint. This would reduce the need to disturb the interior finishes too much or fully replacing that post; though if it were my building, I'd probably open 'er up and just replace it with a single full height post (while at the same time confirming the depth of the post is sufficient). More work, but more peace of mind.
You are 100% correct Mike. It's heaving. Since it doesn't appear to be load bearing, you may be able to relieve the heave by cutting that post at ground level and temporally brace that frame until it's warm enough to permanently fix it (but I'm not an engineer) lol.
That post is heaving due to cold frost. The frost can eventually pull that out even further. It's pulling and twisting the framing / metal. Everything else looks great.
just my opinion on the frost damage mike,,,, retired mechanical contractor here.. i'm much more north than you but when we pour crete it's on 2" foam whether we're lacing it for radiant or not.. obviously it's to late for that, so i'd suggest you turn your floor heat on and stop relying on the wood stove 100%.. jmo
I wonder if that post being short it may be heaving more from the frost than the rest of them that go all of the way to the roof. I would take some pine off the inside and put a piece of post in to extend it to the top plate so it moves at the same rate as the rest of the building. Just scab doe 2x6 on both side to tie it all together. Probably will have to wait until the ground thaws like you said. Could also try to push it back down with a bottle jack first. No matter how deep the post the frost will grab the top of them. They all move but that one has less resistance than the rest. We use tapered porch piers here in Vermont so when the frost tries to grab and lift the concrete it can’t because the top of the pier falls away. If did did a post building like yours here in Vermont I would run a 2 foot strip of 2” foam board around the entire outside perimeter of the building to stop the frost from penetrating into the ground. Hope this helps.
Good Morning Morgans , dont know why they do it this way with a short piece of wood , Amish built mine and it is the same way , I believe it is so the owner if they change where they want the door while being built it makes it easier to put in the frame some where else, my neighbor had the same exact thing happen and when we took it apart, cause of course the warranty period was over. this shorter post was only like 16 inches in the ground not near enough for frost line for sure , it is a big nuisance , so had to remove and take the inside wall apart / metal work outside and hand post hole dig about another foot for 26 inches and ran it up to the top band board that goes all around the upper part and used a glue lam type post like the rest of the post it was built with so it had no chance of warping after all this work , it was just a pain to have to do it it should of been done right in the first place . Have a great Day Mike
You may have an adfreeze problem. That happens when the soil surrounding the post freezes and bonds to the post. When the frost progresses into the ground, the expansion lifts the post. The frost doesn't have to get down to the base of the post for this to happen. That short post isn't carrying any of the roof load, which would help to keep it down. To do a proper fix, you need to strip the siding and paneling, excavate the post, and replace it with one that goes down to frost depth (assuming the existing one is shallow) and up to the top plate.
I agree. The fact that the post doesn’t extend all the way to the top header might mean it doesn’t have enough weight on it to break the bond of the surrounding frost.
The first pole building I built in Northern NY raised up on one side because I made the mistake of pouring the front pad under the overhead door frame. The pad picked up from the frost 6" but only one one side as I figure that side had allot of moisture in the ground. I was lucky in a way that I had not poured the floor yet so I was able to dig out that corner and lower the building down. This winter so far has been the coldest I can remember in central VA. In summary, it can very well be that one post that has been picked up by the frost but your outside pad could have moved as well but if there is no evidence of this then its the post. It may go back down in the spring or may not. My pad went back down but my building did not until I dug out the posts as mentioned.
Yep. Every home I build, I take HUNDREDS of photos, start to finish. I just had an issue with frozen pipes on the north wall of my cabin. My photos came in handy!
Mike, I am not an engineer, but when I was younger I was a builder. I think you are right about the post. I think if it were longer and went all the way up to the main beam you would not have the problem, even if the post was not as deep as the other. I think the long term fix will be to open the wall up and bolt a beam extension up to the main beam overhead. Good luck
Enjoyed The Video Mike!! Most Likely the problem is the concrete slab in front of the door is lifting up due to the frost heave therfore the slab is catching the door frame and trim and it is being lifted to form the buckling of outside trim. Keep Smiling On!! 😃👍👊❤️
Mike I had/have a similar issue with my new metal building. Last winter was our first winter with the building and I found the siding panels and trim around the door was buckling. I found that 1/2 of the new driveway slab had heaved and rose enough to hit the panels. I had to take a right angle grinder to cut away about an inch of the siding and door trim to release the tension. Same thing is happening this year only it’s not touching this time. We live in southwest VA BTW. Moved here from CT in 2023. Never had this happen in CT.
Cut/remove the fasteners from the door frame that are into that post. Then you can refasten them like they do with log homes. They cut a slot in the frame and use a screw/nail with a washer to fasten it to the log, or in your case the post. That will allow the post to move without effecting the door frame.
Hi Mike, I agree you should wait until spring to work on this. Is the door header level? This would confirm your suspicion. I’d suggest you loosen some of the screws on your siding to prevent that from buckling. For curiosity sake, you might want to get a dimension from the top of the moving post to the underside of the header holding the roof trusses. Compare this dimension in spring to see how much it moved. Suggestions in spring: 1) With the post exposed, use a bottle jack between the top of the post and underside of the header to give the moving post a nudge down. You won’t pick up the building. 2) Find someone who can make you a 6x6 to fill in the space between the subject post and header (know someone?). Too bad they didn’t use the same construction on the shop door as they did on the family room door. 3) Removing the post to determine how deep it was set is going to be a bear. 4) Please cash the Christmas present I sent in the Christmas card to Hunter. Stay warm, Jim Sheridan
I've dealt with frost heaving many times on my property. If it hadn't been for your "investigation" with the construction photos, I'd've been flummoxed with the heaving being so localized to a mid-wall spot. I think you're correct in your assessment both of cause, and course of action in the short term. Nothing can be done until the frost releases things. It'll be interesting watching the fix you do in the spring.
Mike I once experienced a similar problem with a pressure treated post shrinking. I think my wood burner drew the moisture out of the 10’ post and shrunk it about two inches. It had me stumped for a while until I realized that was the problem. It looked like you’re door frame on the striker side was a pt post in your video. Hope this helps!
Yes its heaving. One solution would be to make a floating door frame like is done with log construction. Depending on the clearance between the building sub-frame and the door jam, that could be a pain. You would have to either cut down the existing frame, or down size the door if clearance is too tight. And +1 on the red oak firewood👍
You may want to cut about a 1/2 inch off the bottom of the Brick moulding on the latch side of the door. I believe it is the concrete pad on the outside of the building. The concrete pad on the outside of the building is more likely to rise from frost. Hope this helps.
I have another possible solution: In essence, detach the rising post entirely from the ground, and support the door only from the header. The discrepant post is not structural at all, so no need to dig up any concrete or soil.
hi follow up on the flag coming down . what i have found ,in the winter time the humility in houses gets very low drying studs along with other things causing them to shrink even more , the flag may have been put up with nails , , it like putting nails in green wood ,the wood shrinks around the nail and they loose there holding power , just a thought , john
Mike watching the video as you showed the pictures of the build I noticed another issue that maybe aiding in the freeze lifting you had mentioned you felt like that post wasn’t deep enough that could very well be the problem. But I noticed that post really has no down force load on it at all. Any load could and may have helped that post from heaving repairing I believe I would connect it the beam above for more structural strength!
From North Idaho, our climatologist just announced for our area that we've had the least amount of snow, so far, at 8.4 inches. It's ben cold here, teens at night, up to about 30 during the day. Shadow lakes have ice on them. Weird about the flag falling onto the stove top, I agree the 2 minute fix will turn into an hour or 2, seems like it always does. I agree with you on the HQ door fix. Stay warm!
Frost heave sounds right. If you can uncover the area inside or out, I would cut the post off at ground level (leave wide gap, at least 1"). Get the post in position, and then anchor it to the bottom rail and the top beam to hold it firm. that will take that single post out of the equation for the heaving and still be strong enough for the door latch/stop.
Good Morning Mike! When it rains, it pours. Hopefully that frost heave will go back down and your door will be good again. Will the door even open right now? On your saw, it's most likely a bit of sawdust that has plugged either the line to the oil pump, or the oil port on the bar itself has a chip jammed in it plugging the oil hole into the bar channel. Hopefully it's not the pump itself. You can take the pump out of the saw and blow compressed air through the line to clear it. My Dad runs Stihls, and that's usually what it is, I've only had to change 1 oil pump for him through the years. My Husqvarna's don't have any problems like that 😉😉😉
I, too, had my main water line from the well freeze. That took some work to get going. We had -22º up in Crawford County, -35º windchill. I dug out the water line and re-insulated the whole situation. I hope we're good to go, now!
Mike your door is also bent on top of the trim when you backed away from that. If that post is dropped down to fix it you may have to dig down under and place a round cement stone down in the bottom for a solid base for the post. You may have to take the trim off then attach a short one that you can put a jack on and push it back in place then block in in but it looks like they did not get that one on a stable base. Good luck Mike and keep them coming they make my day.
You’re right Mike, I’ve been a contractor in central PA for 38 years. I believe the post may be deep enough, but because it is short of the beam when it heaves, it doesn’t apply the same pressure up to your beam as your long post this weather has been unbelievable, in my opinion, I would open up the interior of the wall or exterior of the wall and somehow try to continue that post up to the bottom of the beam. It looks like you have a good thermal break to your concrete floor with the 2 inch foam. I’m not sure if you put your boiler in for your under floor radiant heat, but if you did maybe running the radiant heat when it gets 10° may be a good idea, extending that post up to the beam should allow a more stable wall and that wall will all move as one from now on .
1:00 "the screws are loose on the top hinge..." That sounds familiar. I think I've got a couple of loose screws myself. However, I lost a bag of old marbles several years ago, and recently found them in a closet. So at least I haven't lost my marbles. 😁
The church I go to is a Morton metal building. It has the same issues in the cold but on the horizontal plane. When it gets below zero the ceiling tile buckle because the metal tees shrink and the crown molding on the ceiling as well. It always goes back when it warms up. The only way I can think of to fix your door is make the metal trim around fit into another trim with room to move to and fro with cold so it can expand and contract.
Hi Melissa, Mike, I am sure that the short post heaved. Is there a header over the door? One thing that you can do, is connect your radiant floor heat. That post should have been full length. It is going to be a project to replace the post. You may need to remove siding and roof panels to get the full length post in. As well as a crane to remove and replace with a full length length post. It is doable, do you have a warranty still, on the building. I am sure you will contact your insurance Co. Your lucky that the damage wasn't any worse. The company that built the building has to come and do a complete assessment of the damage. You are actually lucky that the building is well supported. Just a thought, Joe Capo.
I think you are correct; the post was not below the frostline, and the freezing has raised that specific post up vertically. What about retrofitting a slip joint in this post so you won't have to dig a new hole deeper to get below the frostline. This looks like a non-load bearing post and it's just there for the door jamb.
Hey Mike the amount that door sagged vs the metal trim would indicate to me that the metal trim was tight to the exterior concrete. So if indeed it was a tight fit if the concrete moved up on the patio that would cause that trim to buckle. So when you fix it in the spring( I am thinking it will just return to original position) If you do have to replace that piece leave a 1/4 gap on the bottom to allow for movement. I bet it just goes back though.
I live in Northern Minnesota our posts have to be 5' deep. My building was built in 1977 and started out with 7' x 16' overheat door. In few years I had to add wood to the bottom of the door to fill the gape at the bottom of the door. And every few years add a little more. Then I put in a 7' 6" door. finally a few years ago I pulled the 4 post out of the ground and framed a wall on the concrete floor and now I have a 8' ' overhead door. The frost was pulling the posts up. My suggestion is to take that post out and frame a wall on the floor. I was a licensed contractor in the state of Minnesota. This is a common problem in my area.
I have a 33x70 foot steel building 6" think slab. My cylinder in the building main door a double door. The cylinder in the knob to get in and out shortens and get fatter. In heat 118 this summer caused some breakage with the cylinder expanding in the steel doors. I kept spraying in quality door oil that helped a bit. But I have to replace the Knob and the inners. Just to get the money to do that. My shop has the same issue but came later. Concrete floor metal frame and door.
My metal building started to get some deformities in the metal trim around the doors the first really cold snap we had here in NC. My building is metal frame on concrete pad. I figured it was the concrete pad raising due to the cold ground. Luckily it wasn't as severe as what you have going on. It was just right where the trim meets the concrete.
Good morning Mike, It's the floating concrete Slab that is eaving because of the frost, we see it all the time up here in Canada. In Canada we don't necessarily use that building technique because the frost will raise the elevation of the concrete while your building will still be anchor below the frost line, walls won't buckle but a door is a weak point were you will notice it more. It's also important that you have a good 5/8 to 3/4" of spacing between the door frame and header without any shims to allow for the frost deflection.
I would also remove the snow that is against the building. When temps rise a bit the snow that's against the building could be melting and water finding its way down into ground there. That would cause more moisture in ground which would cause a thicker freeze thaw cycle...Now you have a perfect storm between this and the post in the ground...
I just installed a new Stihl 28" bar on an MS310 (see the video on my channel) and I discovered that my chain was running dry. I removed the bar and learned that Stihl has changed the design of the oil hole. It's much smaller and goes up at an angle, and in my experience, is more prone to plugging with sawdust.
Stihl didn’t change anything… they have different oiler locations and hole configurations on different saw/bar combinations and you used an incompatible combination. A 28” bar on a 310 is wishful thinking anyway… the saw lacks the power to reasonably pull a 28 buried in the wood. A 28” is outside the Stihl recommended range of bar sizes for the 310 saw.
@johngrossbohlin7582 Thanks for the comment! I run a skip tooth ,and it pulls just fine. A full house is a much different story. BTW, I checked oil flow with the bar on the saw without the chain, and when the hole is clear, the oil flows fine.
A lot of comments here are recommending extending the post to the top plate, installing headers, etc. None of that will stop frost heave. Extending the post to top of the wall will just Jack up the top plate and put a hump in the top plate, and roof. The frost heave issue has to be addressed. Please see my previous comment.
Mike, when you do finally dig out the post and replace, I would tie it in up top to that header as well. If it were me, I'd probably fix the trim and get the door working properly and wait and see. It's been unusually cold this year and it could be years before it's -15 again. jmo.
Mike I live in northern Vermont and have seen the very same thing and you’re absolutely correct, you can wait it out or like other people have said you can heat the snot out of it but I don’t think it will make a difference just wait it out and go into problem solving then!
Hi Mike. You are correct. As soon as I saw the photo I knew it was the short post. It was caused by the temps and differential settling. If the short post went all the way to the roof it would not have happened. Several factors are involved as you know. I would extend the short post to the roof top purling. I am a retired engineer from Kentucky.
Calling the building contractor to warranty repair the door frame problem would definitely be the first step…but the steps for permanently fixing this issue is simply what should have been done on original build time. God Bless you and all your tribe.
Mike. I believe the reason the door frame buckled is related to the short post, which does not meet the cross beam above. Since it is the only one that does not touch the cross beam, it was not blocked from rising up (from the cold ground), and it rose. The others did not as they were blocked by the cross beam. This was an error in the design and construction of your building. In warmer weather, you can add a length to the post, so that it meets the cross beam, and then it should not rise up again. That is my guess anyway.
3:17 clearly one post is load bearing and one is not. The snow load is pushing down on the one post and the cement cookie likely settled 1/2". The one with no load on it didn't do that. I'm really glad I watched this as I am in the process of spec'ing out a metal building now. Good catch on this.
I think you’re exactly right with the problem with the door. It looks like what needs to be done. Is the bottom of that post needs to be sawed off so there’s a space between the the ground and where you saw it off,, structurally it’s not doing anything,it doesn’t go up to the top. It’s only there for the latch in the door, but not the hinge side of the door. So you’re good there. Yes, I do think that the frost heaved it. Maybe they can cut the bottom of the post off and then put something on the bottom that allows it to move up and down, but still holds the bottom structurally there.
I've been watching the problem with your door. We live in ND and have sub zero quite often this time of the year. I have a suggestion on how you could fix your frost heaving problem. When spring comes and you can open it up easiest from the inside, dig a deep hole along side your problem pole and "stub' in a longer pole and tie the two together.
That side of the door is not really a post..It appears to be just a framing timber. The other 6x6 timbers along that wall are butted up against the top beam, therefore the total weight of the roof system is helping keep any of the posts from heaving due to the ground frost.
Hey Mike, sorry to hear about of your post heaving problem, but resolve the problem I think you start using your floor heat system, that heated concrete floor will resolve the problem. I know you love wood burning heat, but until start using floor heat you will really love it more. I believe you mentioned you didn't have boiler hooked up yet. Have you considered outdoor boiler system, with the source firewood you have this might be solution for you. You may find you will be using less wood and so much comfortable. I live in barndo. with hydronic floor heat in northern IL and its the most comfortable home in the winter that I have ever lived in, If you are position to get boiler installed now I think that post will relax into the original position. which may save you a lot work.
Hi Mike, The door issue might not be a big deal. But from looking at it what would concern me the most is not the trim buckling on the right side, but instead the buckling of the trim over the top side of the door. I would begin any repairs by first extending the short wall beam on the right side of the door all of the way up to the ceiling and sill plate above. and also call the building contractor who built it to see what the thinks about it
You know how Tom says every concrete slab cracks the same thing for foundations and footings. They will all move at some point but unlike concrete floors you want them to move together.
Hey Mike, I thought I had which I think would tell you if it’s the post or the concrete would be to use your laser level and measure off a fixed point inside the building that doesn’t move. Next measure a spot on the post and also the concrete by the door. Then recheck after the frost is gone and see if that gives you a clearer picture of what’s moving.
Builders rarely think about the extreme ends of the climate. You might find ways to deal with your building issue, but the only way to fix it is to replace the post to the correct depth.
If builder didn't place polystyrene atleast 36" down on outside of footer/slab @ door opening, I'm not a gambling man but i would go all in, that's exactly what caused the heave. You might have been ok with the short 4x4 pole ( I wouldn't have) but if no polystyrene that's exactly what caused the heaving. Polystyrene @ any opening in a structure (especially one being heated) is a must and code here, I believe. If you had your radiant floor hooked up and running, it probably wouldn't have happened but builder shouldn't expect or rely on that from owner if that's what happened. Only or best fix honestly would be to get your radiant flooring hooked up this summer. You could remove a sheet or two of metal on outside of building for access vs tearing out the finished interior. If I remember you installed polystyrene on inside. Just not certain how much access you'll have to make the proper repair such as running out the short 4x4 up to top framing, then you would have to some how reinforce that splice. It would be a big headache for sure and a mess. I would talk to Tom and definitely call the builder. Look back and see if they installed polystyrene @ door opening. Put your framing square on a few spots, corner of door casing. Put you level on a few spots checking for plumb. Just my 2 cents.
Great detective work. I believe u are absolutely correct regarding the frost heave. Hey as far as fixing it if that post is not structural it doesn’t need to be in the ground at all. Good luck.
Subsidence? Coal mines close by? Strangeness abounds.look for cracks around property in the grounds around building and house.hum,got me.keep a close eye on the grounds.god bless you all.
After bending and installing aluminum trim work and building houses, (without seeing in person) my best guess is two fold. When the door trim was installed the proper amount of margin wasn't allowed for contraction/expansion due to temperature. The second thought is that the post on the stricker side of the door doesn't have the added benefit of the weight of the roof like the other post do. Being as cold as it has been for as long as it has been your frost level could have very well exceeded the normal depth for your region.
I have a 30 x 40 in Michigan. There is one 16 foot overhead door and 1 side entrance hinged door. ALL uprights are tied to main beam, all sitting on 4 inch thick donut 48 inches deep. The contractor that built that should have not allowed to have placed that short upright post without it being tied to the main upper beam. That's is how post and beam construction counteracts the stresses. Common sense. Repairable for certain.
I wonder if you could use a miniature version of a micro-pile screwed into the ground next to the door frame post and attach a bolt/nailer plate to it? This might hold it down and stop it from heaving in the future. I’m not a pole barn builder, but I know retrofitting a solution may be challenging with everything finished inside. Good luck.
Looks like the margin across the top of the door is tighter in the middle the top buckle outside agrees with that , if you can remove the door frame and all gain you some extra space between the door jamb and the header the freezing weather may have pushed the short post upward , Just an idea !!
Your outside pad is poured seperate from in side pad outside is heavying up. Brick mould is prouble sitting on outside pad may halve to trim brick mould and metal over brick mould
Frost doesn't have to get below bottom of post to heave a post. Frost grabs it from the side so to speak. In my opinion there is no weight on that post, doesn't go up and tie into plates which supports the trusses and roof mass. I think all posts Frost heave a little but that one heaves more because it has less weight on it.
Hi Mike, Watched a guy put a piece of ABS pipe on the edge of his snow blade. Cut it to length and split the length of it. separate to start then drive it on. moves the snow and leaves the gravel. If you have a piece laying around give it a try. good luck, stay warm. have a day.
100% agree! Even if they didn't put the post as far down as they should have(by code). Their biggest mistake was Not using a full length post that travels all the way up to the roof beam(?), like the one on the other side of the door. Had they used a full length post all the way up, the weight of that top beam would keep the heaving at bay. Sorry for your luck. I'd like to think there is some sort of warranty through the builder, for this mistake.
Since this post doesn’t tie into the header above. It has no roof weight on it. So it heaves easily. This Spring after it settles I would extent that post up to connect with the header. The roof weight on that post should keep it from heaving again. However, this does mean you have to open the wall, probably from the out since it’s a finished interior.
Caught a glimpse of the inside of the door at about 5:20 into the video. The margin across the top of the door looks pretty even. If the strike jamb went up why did it not carry the top jamb with it? They are rabbeted together. Check the top hinge and see if it let the door sag which can have the effect of lowering the strike. If the top jamb went up or the door sagged the margin should be tapered across the top. I think you correct, just throwing out a few ideas.
Very sure you are correct. I’d bet that post is just below the floor slab & it is heaving from the frost in the ground. Wait it out is about all you can do. If the door is not operational you could release the latch-side jamb screws & see if it will settle back down to the slab. My guess it will not. Time is most likely the answer.
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Hey y'all. Just watched episode regarding buckled door jamb. Might should wait until spring thaw before repairing. If you fix while still frozen it might revert to original position when thawed and you could have to do another fix. Love your program. A big fan from Otto, NC (Western Carolina Mountains)
Birds will get Water off edge of a roof that may have some ice melt.
😂😂😂😂😂@@Formulabruce
Birds don't help with anything on a steel roof there bub
I’m a contractor grew up helping build pole barns and still do it today at 55 I’m still a contractor… You are 100% 💯 correct on the door frame prob… not a hard fix, just a nuisance because it should have been done when built…
Step…
(1) remove ext. metal sheathing
(2) cut pole free and remove
(3) auger/post hole deeper
(4) replace with new longer post
*( post must tie into top plate (beam/header) as well)
(5) reset metal sheathing
(5) reset metal sheath
Don’t understand the number 5 echo?? Ha Ha
Okay when you was fueling up you said that it was the end of February so I had to back up and listen again think you meant to say January though it was funny
Wyatt9548......
I'm not a builder at all, but I have to tell you you're wrong.
Here are the correct stops.....
Step 1: Call contractor that built building to have them come and fix it.
😁
@ calling the contractor is exactly what to do first, and they should have no problem fixing it because it should have been done on original build time…so it should be no cost to owner. But the steps I mentioned for repair are not wrong sir…
As an amateur, agree 100% with this solution. Longer post would be connected to the top in the same manner the main posts are. Fairly low $$ on material’s, mostly the time needed being the challenge.
Mike, I would just pull off the door casing on the interior, left side of the door, then use a reciprocating saw and 6” demo blade between the exposed door jamb and jack stud to sever the connecting nails holding the door jamb to the 6x6. If necessary, pull the door casing off the top of the door too, and - with the top and left side jams exposed you can use a pry bar (36” long) to pry the left side jamb back down into place. I’d leave the trim off until the spring, but cutting the connection between the door jamb and post should prevent further damage.
With my phone, I can zoom in on your reveal across the top of your door. The reveal is normal on the hinge side but wide on your doorknob side. That means what I told you last time. Water is getting under your threshold or, under your concrete. With the short post, it appears to be going up.
If icing is heaving your concrete you will have a hard time doing a repair that will last. I don't know how far your stem under your door goes down. It sounds like your pier footing is 42"down. If your stem does not tie into your piers you are going to have more problems.
If the stem under your post frame is shallow you will need to be tied to your piers and your stem on the bottom sloped to a point. That way the ice can't push up on the stem in between.
🇨🇦Mike, ive been a General Contractor for 30+ yrs and what your saying sounds correct except for the fact that there is no issues on the interior which is a bit of a head scratcher. Any time I've got a call for problems like this on post and beam construction there is an issue on the interior as well such as nails or screws popping or in your case the metal on the inside bottom of the wall should be showing the same problem. BTW, i live in BC Canada and get the same temperature fluctuations as your area. As u said, i would definitely wait till it is significantly warmer and all the frost had come out of the ground to see how it reacts. Cant wait to see what transpires. Cheers from Canada 🇨🇦 Edit, put a black felt mark on the center of the latch and where that corresponds on the strike plate today so u can monitor it as temperatures fluctuate.
By looking at the pictures you had on this video - I believe you are correct about the door. That beam should have been as tall as the opposite side of the door and attached to the top beam. You might call the builder to see if they have any suggestions. Stay safe.
I think your spot on mike. I also noticed that post on that side of the door doesn't extend all the way up to the framing at top of the wall. Maybe had a hinge affect with no door Header and just door being framed to purlin. Pole building probably doesn't need a conventional header due to poles holding the weight but if it had one and the pole extended all the way up on the one side of door it may limit flex from shallow hole and limit freeze and thaw issues.
My thoughts exactly
YESSIR.
This is correct.
Mike, don’t worry about fixing the door trim until Spring. As you know in SWPA the freeze/ thaw cycles continue until March, and will keep that post heaving out of the ground until then. If you replace the trim now you’ll only have to do it again in March. Also remember, once a post heaves up during a freeze, it won’t sink back down once the ground thaws.
One thing that may help keep the door from really getting jammed up is to get your recip saw between the frame and post and cut the nails( Be careful not to punch through the exterior metal). Then use your Dremel to cut vertical slots into the frame, then drive new nails in through the slots near the bottom of the slot. That way as the post heaves out, the nail holding the door frame will ride up the slot, while the door frame is held in place by the rest of the frame and the weight of the building. It’s similar to how vinyl siding is attached to sheathing.
Should have done concrete piers with Mid-West Perma Column wet set brackets. With the floor already poured and the way the posts are in the ground, you could take all your tin off and try to build a substantial header between two posts you know are below the frost line and that are good. You could also try to remove that short post and dig a 48" hole, fill it with concrete, replace the post using a bracket, and replacing all your metal and trim. Should of never happened to begin with, but that's in the past.
You need to extend the short post all the way to the top and it will hold that post down from frost jacking,but you will have to wait till summer to fix it.
Mike I don’t think it’s the post. I believe it’s the slab heaving on the latch side of the door. If the post was heaving it would take the metal with it and therefore it wouldn’t be deforming. Unless the purlins aren’t attached to the jamb side post.
That post on the strike side of the door is the localized problem. You are correct Mike. If you had moisture under ground it would be more evenly distributed and would affect several posts if not the entire building. Problems begin to appear with sustained temps below zero. At 10 below and colder problems rapidly appear as stresses build. At 15-20 below that is extreme. Septic systems begin freezing and lots of trouble manifests. You should be able to adjust and align things when winter is over. I suggest hooking up a heat source to your radiant floor system and warm up your slab in future years during extreme (below zero sustained) weather to stabilize the floor system. Your wood stove works well but your slab and perimeter in that part of the building are too far away. The moderate air temp in that area is not enough when it is 10 below. Not suggesting you switch over to full time radiant heat throughout the building but just a loop or two in that end of the building during severe winters.
Do you think floating slabs is moving with frost?
Mike I think your right about that short beam on that door. It should've been tied to the header that supports all the rafters. All your other doors that I can see each side of the door those beams go all the way to the header on top. I don't know why the put the short one in maybe they ran out of beams. I don't have experience with pole barns so take that with a grain of salt, but when you have those set in the ground with freezing and thawing going on. 3 stringers aren't going to do a whole lot to stabilize that. With the pictures you have you should be able to make a case with the company that built it and have them fix it, and if not, you know what to do. You haven't had any problems with any of the other doors either. JMO. Just a note I was a contractor and owned my own construction company years ago.
I live in northern Mn. We see this often when we hit 20-30 below zero for long periods of time. One of the easy fixes we use when building pole buildings is after we bury the poles we put two inch foam down about a foot in the ground two feet out around the perimeter of the building. This will stop all frost from ever penetrating deep enough to cause the poles or concrete from frost heaving.
I added a porch several years ago to my home in Morris (Northwest CT). My concrete form tubes were all of 42 inches deep. A 10 day cold snap (below 0) came and lifted the porch along with the roof. My dear friend (we're both now in our 70's) who has built more than 600 homes mentioned he's seen the frost actually grab hold of the concrete and lift it as if it (frost) wrapped its arms around the concrete piers and lifted it. This could have happened to the singular door post. My $0.02
Mike we have had problems like you are having with the door. We fixed ours by replacing the concrete slab on the outside. And when we replaced it we poured the concrete on 2" of foam sheeting. It stopped our heaving problem. So, every time we are putting in a slab of concrete on the outside of a building we are using 2" foam insulation.
I’m a contractor grew up helping build pole barns and still do it today at 55 I’m still a contractor… You are 100% 💯 correct on the door frame prob… not a hard fix, just a nuisance because it should have been done when built…
@wyatt9548 I would agree with you. As part of the fix, I'd suggest extending that shorty post up to the perimeter beam, so any uplift/heave would be resisted by the roof structure like the rest of the posts. It seems to me that shorty is free to lift independently of the rest of the building, hence the differential settlement/heave. Would you agree that fix might reduce the chance of this occurring again in the future?
Mike could probably try to do the fix from the outside by removing the cladding and scabbing on an extension with some significant Simpson Strong-Tie strapping to mitigate potential buckling at the joint. This would reduce the need to disturb the interior finishes too much or fully replacing that post; though if it were my building, I'd probably open 'er up and just replace it with a single full height post (while at the same time confirming the depth of the post is sufficient). More work, but more peace of mind.
Mike, I would let the contractor know so they are aware and can change how they do it for future builds.
You are 100% correct Mike. It's heaving. Since it doesn't appear to be load bearing, you may be able to relieve the heave by cutting that post at ground level and temporally brace that frame until it's warm enough to permanently fix it (but I'm not an engineer) lol.
10-4. If you can, put an anti freeze at the base, RV anti freeze will work. Then after the thaw, dig baby dig.
The post may only be attached to the Perlans and not anchored into the earth.
That post is heaving due to cold frost. The frost can eventually pull that out even further. It's pulling and twisting the framing / metal. Everything else looks great.
just my opinion on the frost damage mike,,,, retired mechanical contractor here.. i'm much more north than you but when we pour crete it's on 2" foam whether we're lacing it for radiant or not.. obviously it's to late for that, so i'd suggest you turn your floor heat on and stop relying on the wood stove 100%.. jmo
I wonder if that post being short it may be heaving more from the frost than the rest of them that go all of the way to the roof. I would take some pine off the inside and put a piece of post in to extend it to the top plate so it moves at the same rate as the rest of the building. Just scab doe 2x6 on both side to tie it all together. Probably will have to wait until the ground thaws like you said. Could also try to push it back down with a bottle jack first. No matter how deep the post the frost will grab the top of them. They all move but that one has less resistance than the rest. We use tapered porch piers here in Vermont so when the frost tries to grab and lift the concrete it can’t because the top of the pier falls away. If did did a post building like yours here in Vermont I would run a 2 foot strip of 2” foam board around the entire outside perimeter of the building to stop the frost from penetrating into the ground. Hope this helps.
Turn your floor heat on, that may ease the heaving.
Now you may be on to something here. I never thought of that but it might help.
Very good idea!
That was my first thought. Is the floor heat on.
@@Prescott-hockey8I always wondered why spend the money and never use it??
I don't believe the floor heat is hooked up. He had plans for an outdoor boiler, but the indoor fire has been enough to heat the place.
Good Morning Morgans , dont know why they do it this way with a short piece of wood , Amish built mine and it is the same way , I believe it is so the owner if they change where they want the door while being built it makes it easier to put in the frame some where else, my neighbor had the same exact thing happen and when we took it apart, cause of course the warranty period was over. this shorter post was only like 16 inches in the ground not near enough for frost line for sure , it is a big nuisance , so had to remove and take the inside wall apart / metal work outside and hand post hole dig about another foot for 26 inches and ran it up to the top band board that goes all around the upper part and used a glue lam type post like the rest of the post it was built with so it had no chance of warping after all this work , it was just a pain to have to do it it should of been done right in the first place . Have a great Day Mike
You may have an adfreeze problem. That happens when the soil surrounding the post freezes and bonds to the post. When the frost progresses into the ground, the expansion lifts the post. The frost doesn't have to get down to the base of the post for this to happen. That short post isn't carrying any of the roof load, which would help to keep it down. To do a proper fix, you need to strip the siding and paneling, excavate the post, and replace it with one that goes down to frost depth (assuming the existing one is shallow) and up to the top plate.
I agree. The fact that the post doesn’t extend all the way to the top header might mean it doesn’t have enough weight on it to break the bond of the surrounding frost.
The first pole building I built in Northern NY raised up on one side because I made the mistake of pouring the front pad under the overhead door frame. The pad picked up from the frost 6" but only one one side as I figure that side had allot of moisture in the ground. I was lucky in a way that I had not poured the floor yet so I was able to dig out that corner and lower the building down. This winter so far has been the coldest I can remember in central VA. In summary, it can very well be that one post that has been picked up by the frost but your outside pad could have moved as well but if there is no evidence of this then its the post. It may go back down in the spring or may not. My pad went back down but my building did not until I dug out the posts as mentioned.
It sure never hurts to have good pictures of a build from start to finish.
I can’t echo this enough!
Yep. Every home I build, I take HUNDREDS of photos, start to finish.
I just had an issue with frozen pipes on the north wall of my cabin.
My photos came in handy!
You’re spot on with the post heaving. Frost for sure lifting it. “One two buckle my shoe, three four not my door”. Hate sub zero temps.
Mike, I am not an engineer, but when I was younger I was a builder. I think you are right about the post. I think if it were longer and went all the way up to the main beam you would not have the problem, even if the post was not as deep as the other. I think the long term fix will be to open the wall up and bolt a beam extension up to the main beam overhead. Good luck
Enjoyed The Video Mike!! Most Likely the problem is the concrete slab in front of the door is lifting up due to the frost heave therfore the slab is catching the door frame and trim and it is being lifted to form the buckling of outside trim.
Keep Smiling On!!
😃👍👊❤️
Mike I had/have a similar issue with my new metal building. Last winter was our first winter with the building and I found the siding panels and trim around the door was buckling. I found that 1/2 of the new driveway slab had heaved and rose enough to hit the panels. I had to take a right angle grinder to cut away about an inch of the siding and door trim to release the tension. Same thing is happening this year only it’s not touching this time. We live in southwest VA BTW. Moved here from CT in 2023. Never had this happen in CT.
Cut/remove the fasteners from the door frame that are into that post. Then you can refasten them like they do with log homes. They cut a slot in the frame and use a screw/nail with a washer to fasten it to the log, or in your case the post. That will allow the post to move without effecting the door frame.
Hi Mike,
I agree you should wait until spring to work on this. Is the door header level? This would confirm your suspicion. I’d suggest you loosen some of the screws on your siding to prevent that from buckling. For curiosity sake, you might want to get a dimension from the top of the moving post to the underside of the header holding the roof trusses. Compare this dimension in spring to see how much it moved.
Suggestions in spring:
1) With the post exposed, use a bottle jack between the top of the post and underside of the header to give the moving post a nudge down. You won’t pick up the building.
2) Find someone who can make you a 6x6 to fill in the space between the subject post and header (know someone?). Too bad they didn’t use the same construction on the shop door as they did on the family room door.
3) Removing the post to determine how deep it was set is going to be a bear.
4) Please cash the Christmas present I sent in the Christmas card to Hunter.
Stay warm,
Jim Sheridan
I've dealt with frost heaving many times on my property. If it hadn't been for your "investigation" with the construction photos, I'd've been flummoxed with the heaving being so localized to a mid-wall spot. I think you're correct in your assessment both of cause, and course of action in the short term. Nothing can be done until the frost releases things. It'll be interesting watching the fix you do in the spring.
Mike I once experienced a similar problem with a pressure treated post shrinking. I think my wood burner drew the moisture out of the 10’ post and shrunk it about two inches. It had me stumped for a while until I realized that was the problem. It looked like you’re door frame on the striker side was a pt post in your video. Hope this helps!
It is the slab of concrete on the exterior of the building The frost will get under that slab and lift, it hits your trim
Yes its heaving. One solution would be to make a floating door frame like is done with log construction. Depending on the clearance between the building sub-frame and the door jam, that could be a pain. You would have to either cut down the existing frame, or down size the door if clearance is too tight.
And +1 on the red oak firewood👍
Great video! 👍🏻
Love it..."five minutes turns into 2 hours"!!!
You may want to cut about a 1/2 inch off the bottom of the Brick moulding on the latch side of the door. I believe it is the concrete pad on the outside of the building. The concrete pad on the outside of the building is more likely to rise from frost. Hope this helps.
Mike, if that post has lifted, there will be a larger reveal on that side of the door "across the top". I try to keep all the reveals around 1/8 inch.
I have another possible solution: In essence, detach the rising post entirely from the ground, and support the door only from the header. The discrepant post is not structural at all, so no need to dig up any concrete or soil.
hi follow up on the flag coming down . what i have found ,in the winter time the humility in houses gets very low drying studs along with other things causing them to shrink even more , the flag may have been put up with nails , , it like putting nails in green wood ,the wood shrinks around the nail and they loose there holding power , just a thought , john
Mike watching the video as you showed the pictures of the build I noticed another issue that maybe aiding in the freeze lifting you had mentioned you felt like that post wasn’t deep enough that could very well be the problem. But I noticed that post really has no down force load on it at all. Any load could and may have helped that post from heaving repairing I believe I would connect it the beam above for more structural strength!
From North Idaho, our climatologist just announced for our area that we've had the least amount of snow, so far, at 8.4 inches. It's ben cold here, teens at night, up to about 30 during the day. Shadow lakes have ice on them. Weird about the flag falling onto the stove top, I agree the 2 minute fix will turn into an hour or 2, seems like it always does. I agree with you on the HQ door fix. Stay warm!
Frost heave sounds right. If you can uncover the area inside or out, I would cut the post off at ground level (leave wide gap, at least 1"). Get the post in position, and then anchor it to the bottom rail and the top beam to hold it firm. that will take that single post out of the equation for the heaving and still be strong enough for the door latch/stop.
This is what I would do, it’s just the latch side of the doorframe, anchored to the bottom rail would hold it
Good Morning Mike! When it rains, it pours. Hopefully that frost heave will go back down and your door will be good again. Will the door even open right now?
On your saw, it's most likely a bit of sawdust that has plugged either the line to the oil pump, or the oil port on the bar itself has a chip jammed in it plugging the oil hole into the bar channel. Hopefully it's not the pump itself. You can take the pump out of the saw and blow compressed air through the line to clear it. My Dad runs Stihls, and that's usually what it is, I've only had to change 1 oil pump for him through the years. My Husqvarna's don't have any problems like that 😉😉😉
😂 here comes all the building experts. God bless TH-cam
I, too, had my main water line from the well freeze. That took some work to get going. We had -22º up in Crawford County, -35º windchill. I dug out the water line and re-insulated the whole situation. I hope we're good to go, now!
Mike your door is also bent on top of the trim when you backed away from that. If that post is dropped down to fix it you may have to dig down under and place a round cement stone down in the bottom for a solid base for the post. You may have to take the trim off then attach a short one that you can put a jack on and push it back in place then block in in but it looks like they did not get that one on a stable base. Good luck Mike and keep them coming they make my day.
Good Sunday morning, Morgan's and fans!!! Stay warm. Hopefully, Hq gets solved quickly.
Next week is only the end of January here😢 I'm moving to Pennsylvania! 😂
You’re right Mike, I’ve been a contractor in central PA for 38 years. I believe the post may be deep enough, but because it is short of the beam when it heaves, it doesn’t apply the same pressure up to your beam as your long post this weather has been unbelievable, in my opinion, I would open up the interior of the wall or exterior of the wall and somehow try to continue that post up to the bottom of the beam. It looks like you have a good thermal break to your concrete floor with the 2 inch foam. I’m not sure if you put your boiler in for your under floor radiant heat, but if you did maybe running the radiant heat when it gets 10° may be a good idea, extending that post up to the beam should allow a more stable wall and that wall will all move as one from now on .
I agree with this guy. The post does not have any weight on it.
1:00 "the screws are loose on the top hinge..."
That sounds familiar. I think I've got a couple of loose screws myself.
However, I lost a bag of old marbles several years ago, and recently found them in a closet. So at least I haven't lost my marbles. 😁
The church I go to is a Morton metal building. It has the same issues in the cold but on the horizontal plane. When it gets below zero the ceiling tile buckle because the metal tees shrink and the crown molding on the ceiling as well. It always goes back when it warms up. The only way I can think of to fix your door is make the metal trim around fit into another trim with room to move to and fro with cold so it can expand and contract.
Hi Melissa, Mike, I am sure that the short post heaved. Is there a header over the door? One thing that you can do, is connect your radiant floor heat. That post should have been full length. It is going to be a project to replace the post. You may need to remove siding and roof panels to get the full length post in. As well as a crane to remove and replace with a full length length post. It is doable, do you have a warranty still, on the building. I am sure you will contact your insurance Co. Your lucky that the damage wasn't any worse. The company that built the building has to come and do a complete assessment of the damage. You are actually lucky that the building is well supported. Just a thought, Joe Capo.
I think you are correct; the post was not below the frostline, and the freezing has raised that specific post up vertically. What about retrofitting a slip joint in this post so you won't have to dig a new hole deeper to get below the frostline. This looks like a non-load bearing post and it's just there for the door jamb.
Hey Mike the amount that door sagged vs the metal trim would indicate to me that the metal trim was tight to the exterior concrete. So if indeed it was a tight fit if the concrete moved up on the patio that would cause that trim to buckle. So when you fix it in the spring( I am thinking it will just return to original position) If you do have to replace that piece leave a 1/4 gap on the bottom to allow for movement. I bet it just goes back though.
I live in Northern Minnesota our posts have to be 5' deep. My building was built in 1977 and started out with 7' x 16' overheat door. In few years I had to add wood to the bottom of the door to fill the gape at the bottom of the door. And every few years add a little more. Then I put in a 7' 6" door. finally a few years ago I pulled the 4 post out of the ground and framed a wall on the concrete floor and now I have a 8' ' overhead door. The frost was pulling the posts up. My suggestion is to take that post out and frame a wall on the floor. I was a licensed contractor in the state of Minnesota. This is a common problem in my area.
I have a 33x70 foot steel building 6" think slab. My cylinder in the building main door a double door. The cylinder in the knob to get in and out shortens and get fatter. In heat 118 this summer caused some breakage with the cylinder expanding in the steel doors. I kept spraying in quality door oil that helped a bit. But I have to replace the Knob and the inners. Just to get the money to do that. My shop has the same issue but came later. Concrete floor metal frame and door.
Good morning to Hunter 👋👋😺and family and friends , happy peaceful Sunday to everyone 🙏🙏😸
Happy Sunday Morning BadCat.... enjoy the milder weather 😎 😊
@@peteatthefarm4459 / thanks Pete , to you as well 👍😺
My metal building started to get some deformities in the metal trim around the doors the first really cold snap we had here in NC. My building is metal frame on concrete pad. I figured it was the concrete pad raising due to the cold ground. Luckily it wasn't as severe as what you have going on. It was just right where the trim meets the concrete.
Good morning Mike,
It's the floating concrete Slab that is eaving because of the frost, we see it all the time up here in Canada. In Canada we don't necessarily use that building technique because the frost will raise the elevation of the concrete while your building will still be anchor below the frost line, walls won't buckle but a door is a weak point were you will notice it more. It's also important that you have a good 5/8 to 3/4" of spacing between the door frame and header without any shims to allow for the frost deflection.
I would also remove the snow that is against the building. When temps rise a bit the snow that's against the building could be melting and water finding its way down into ground there. That would cause more moisture in ground which would cause a thicker freeze thaw cycle...Now you have a perfect storm between this and the post in the ground...
I just installed a new Stihl 28" bar on an MS310 (see the video on my channel) and I discovered that my chain was running dry. I removed the bar and learned that Stihl has changed the design of the oil hole. It's much smaller and goes up at an angle, and in my experience, is more prone to plugging with sawdust.
Stihl didn’t change anything… they have different oiler locations and hole configurations on different saw/bar combinations and you used an incompatible combination. A 28” bar on a 310 is wishful
thinking anyway… the saw lacks the power to reasonably pull a 28 buried in the wood. A 28” is outside the Stihl recommended range of bar sizes for the 310 saw.
@johngrossbohlin7582 Thanks for the comment! I run a skip tooth ,and it pulls just fine. A full house is a much different story. BTW, I checked oil flow with the bar on the saw without the chain, and when the hole is clear, the oil flows fine.
A lot of comments here are recommending extending the post to the top plate, installing headers, etc. None of that will stop frost heave. Extending the post to top of the wall will just Jack up the top plate and put a hump in the top plate, and roof. The frost heave issue has to be addressed. Please see my previous comment.
Mike, when you do finally dig out the post and replace, I would tie it in up top to that header as well. If it were me, I'd probably fix the trim and get the door working properly and wait and see. It's been unusually cold this year and it could be years before it's -15 again. jmo.
Mike I live in northern Vermont and have seen the very same thing and you’re absolutely correct, you can wait it out or like other people have said you can heat the snot out of it but I don’t think it will make a difference just wait it out and go into problem solving then!
Look at the lintel above the door, that piece of trim is bent also
Hi Mike. You are correct. As soon as I saw the photo I knew it was the short post. It was caused by the temps and differential settling. If the short post went all the way to the roof it would not have happened. Several factors are involved as you know. I would extend the short post to the roof top purling. I am a retired engineer from Kentucky.
Calling the building contractor to warranty repair the door frame problem would definitely be the first step…but the steps for permanently fixing this issue is simply what should have been done on original build time. God Bless you and all your tribe.
A five minute fix turns into two hours = I know that feeling.
Mike. I believe the reason the door frame buckled is related to the short post, which does not meet the cross beam above. Since it is the only one that does not touch the cross beam, it was not blocked from rising up (from the cold ground), and it rose. The others did not as they were blocked by the cross beam. This was an error in the design and construction of your building. In warmer weather, you can add a length to the post, so that it meets the cross beam, and then it should not rise up again. That is my guess anyway.
3:17 clearly one post is load bearing and one is not. The snow load is pushing down on the one post and the cement cookie likely settled 1/2". The one with no load on it didn't do that. I'm really glad I watched this as I am in the process of spec'ing out a metal building now. Good catch on this.
I think you’re exactly right with the problem with the door. It looks like what needs to be done. Is the bottom of that post needs to be sawed off so there’s a space between the the ground and where you saw it off,, structurally it’s not doing anything,it doesn’t go up to the top. It’s only there for the latch in the door, but not the hinge side of the door. So you’re good there. Yes, I do think that the frost heaved it. Maybe they can cut the bottom of the post off and then put something on the bottom that allows it to move up and down, but still holds the bottom structurally there.
I've been watching the problem with your door. We live in ND and have sub zero quite often this time of the year. I have a suggestion on how you could fix your frost heaving problem. When spring comes and you can open it up easiest from the inside, dig a deep hole along side your problem pole and "stub' in a longer pole and tie the two together.
I think you're right. Making them all load-bearing is the only way to fix this long term. They need to settle, shrink, and grow at the same rate.
I think you are spot on with the door problem. That is how my barn was built and that post twisted on mine a little as it dried out.
That side of the door is not really a post..It appears to be just a framing timber. The other 6x6 timbers along that wall are butted up against the top beam, therefore the total weight of the roof system is helping keep any of the posts from heaving due to the ground frost.
Hey Mike, sorry to hear about of your post heaving problem, but resolve the problem I think you start using your floor heat system, that heated concrete floor will resolve the problem. I know you love wood burning heat, but until start using floor heat you will really love it more.
I believe you mentioned you didn't have boiler hooked up yet. Have you considered outdoor boiler system, with the source firewood you have this might be solution for you. You may find you will be using less wood and so much comfortable. I live in barndo. with hydronic floor heat in northern IL and its the most comfortable home in the winter that I have ever lived in, If you are position to get boiler installed now I think that post will relax into the original position. which may save you a lot work.
Hi Mike,
The door issue might not be a big deal. But from looking at it what would concern me the most is not the trim buckling on the right side, but instead the buckling of the trim over the top side of the door. I would begin any repairs by first extending the short wall beam on the right side of the door all of the way up to the ceiling and sill plate above. and also call the building contractor who built it to see what the thinks about it
You know how Tom says every concrete slab cracks the same thing for foundations and footings. They will all move at some point but unlike concrete floors you want them to move together.
Hey Mike, I thought I had which I think would tell you if it’s the post or the concrete would be to use your laser level and measure off a fixed point inside the building that doesn’t move. Next measure a spot on the post and also the concrete by the door. Then recheck after the frost is gone and see if that gives you a clearer picture of what’s moving.
Builders rarely think about the extreme ends of the climate. You might find ways to deal with your building issue, but the only way to fix it is to replace the post to the correct depth.
If builder didn't place polystyrene atleast 36" down on outside of footer/slab @ door opening, I'm not a gambling man but i would go all in, that's exactly what caused the heave. You might have been ok with the short 4x4 pole ( I wouldn't have) but if no polystyrene that's exactly what caused the heaving.
Polystyrene @ any opening in a structure (especially one being heated) is a must and code here, I believe.
If you had your radiant floor hooked up and running, it probably wouldn't have happened but builder shouldn't expect or rely on that from owner if that's what happened.
Only or best fix honestly would be to get your radiant flooring hooked up this summer. You could remove a sheet or two of metal on outside of building for access vs tearing out the finished interior.
If I remember you installed polystyrene on inside. Just not certain how much access you'll have to make the proper repair such as running out the short 4x4 up to top framing, then you would have to some how reinforce that splice. It would be a big headache for sure and a mess.
I would talk to Tom and definitely call the builder. Look back and see if they installed polystyrene @ door opening.
Put your framing square on a few spots, corner of door casing. Put you level on a few spots checking for plumb. Just my 2 cents.
Great detective work. I believe u are absolutely correct regarding the frost heave. Hey as far as fixing it if that post is not structural it doesn’t need to be in the ground at all. Good luck.
Subsidence? Coal mines close by? Strangeness abounds.look for cracks around property in the grounds around building and house.hum,got me.keep a close eye on the grounds.god bless you all.
After bending and installing aluminum trim work and building houses, (without seeing in person) my best guess is two fold. When the door trim was installed the proper amount of margin wasn't allowed for contraction/expansion due to temperature. The second thought is that the post on the stricker side of the door doesn't have the added benefit of the weight of the roof like the other post do. Being as cold as it has been for as long as it has been your frost level could have very well exceeded the normal depth for your region.
Mike, you need to check your header trim on that door. I'll wager it's starting to bend also.
Yep! Noticed that too.
It is.
Good Sunday Morning Mike and Melissa! Have a fantastic and productive week.
Hey Ted, have a wonderful Sunday....
I would definitely be sharing those build photos with your building contractor. They should Want to fix that.
I have a 30 x 40 in Michigan. There is one 16 foot overhead door and 1 side entrance hinged door. ALL uprights are tied to main beam, all sitting on 4 inch thick donut 48 inches deep. The contractor that built that should have not allowed to have placed that short upright post without it being tied to the main upper beam. That's is how post and beam construction counteracts the stresses. Common sense. Repairable for certain.
@12:04 - "next weekend is the end of February" ? Oops
I think Mike flipped his calendar a little early.
I wonder if you could use a miniature version of a micro-pile screwed into the ground next to the door frame post and attach a bolt/nailer plate to it? This might hold it down and stop it from heaving in the future. I’m not a pole barn builder, but I know retrofitting a solution may be challenging with everything finished inside. Good luck.
Looks like the margin across the top of the door is tighter in the middle the top buckle outside agrees with that , if you can remove the door frame and all gain you some extra space between the door jamb and the header the freezing weather may have pushed the short post upward , Just an idea !!
Your outside pad is poured seperate from in side pad outside is heavying up. Brick mould is prouble sitting on outside pad may halve to trim brick mould and metal over brick mould
Frost doesn't have to get below bottom of post to heave a post. Frost grabs it from the side so to speak. In my opinion there is no weight on that post, doesn't go up and tie into plates which supports the trusses and roof mass. I think all posts Frost heave a little but that one heaves more because it has less weight on it.
Hi Mike, Watched a guy put a piece of ABS pipe on the edge of his snow blade. Cut it to length and split the length of it. separate to start then drive it on. moves the snow and leaves the gravel. If you have a piece laying around give it a try. good luck, stay warm. have a day.
100% agree!
Even if they didn't put the post as far down as they should have(by code). Their biggest mistake was Not using a full length post that travels all the way up to the roof beam(?), like the one on the other side of the door. Had they used a full length post all the way up, the weight of that top beam would keep the heaving at bay.
Sorry for your luck. I'd like to think there is some sort of warranty through the builder, for this mistake.
Since this post doesn’t tie into the header above. It has no roof weight on it. So it heaves easily. This Spring after it settles I would extent that post up to connect with the header. The roof weight on that post should keep it from heaving again. However, this does mean you have to open the wall, probably from the out since it’s a finished interior.
Caught a glimpse of the inside of the door at about 5:20 into the video. The margin across the top of the door looks pretty even. If the strike jamb went up why did it not carry the top jamb with it? They are rabbeted together. Check the top hinge and see if it let the door sag which can have the effect of lowering the strike. If the top jamb went up or the door sagged the margin should be tapered across the top. I think you correct, just throwing out a few ideas.
Nice update, I have the same bldg and door design, great info for me. Yes to firewood rack for HQ, an ibc tote has its place but not for decor. 🇺🇸
Very sure you are correct. I’d bet that post is just below the floor slab & it is heaving from the frost in the ground. Wait it out is about all you can do.
If the door is not operational you could release the latch-side jamb screws & see if it will settle back down to the slab. My guess it will not. Time is most likely the answer.