BOLT or LEVER Action For Hunting Bear?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2023
- Welcome to Ron Spomer Outdoors! Folks, when you're hunting bears, which can hunt you back, you need to have the right tool in your hands. So, is that a bolt action or a lever Action?
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
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All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely. - กีฬา
You could also go with a Browning BLR and have the best of both worlds. You get the speed of a lever gun with the cartridges of a bolt gun.
I feel like they're purposely ignoring the BLR
My BLR & My Sister's BLR now both have hurt feelings. 😢
My browning BLR is also feeling left out so I am cuddling it.
The BLR isn't chambered for the calibers they are discussing as appropriate for bear hunting.
@@MartinVeneroso you can get various decent calibers such as a 300 win mag. That caliber may not have been mentioned but it will do the job.
Love having the two of you together in studio. You guys spoil us with the wealth of knowledge between you.
I'm not even a hunter, but man am I glad I stumbled across this channel to hear all the nerdiness about rifles and cartridges.
I truly appreciate you two keeping ethics in the conversation 🙏
When the 30-30 came out, Winchester advertisement showed a hunter shooting Grizzly. Guess if it was good then, Why not today?
Modern grizzlies grow kevlar fur is why the 30-30 is in inadequate today.
@@Hutzjohn He. He, Wouldn't be my choice if going Grizzly hunting. But if it's that in my hands and would take the shot if close enough.
Ron and Joseph, Laurel and Hardy, Abbott and Costello; Y'All have entered the Pantheon of duplex teamwork that survives every trial. Keep up the Good Work!
Winchester Model 70 FWT with a red dot sight is quick and easy to live with in the woods, especially in .308 or .30-06. The Leupold FX-II 2.5x20mm is also great on that rifle.
There ought be at least one hand lifted to raise a Remington 7600 chambered for .35 Whelen into view. It is quick to shoot, and quick to reload.
I live in North East Ontario Canada. No deer, no elk, a few caribou but no season. We have an overabundance of black bears, and a healthy moose population (I only hunt moose). On our acreage, when I walk the dogs, I usually take my 12 gauge with ssg and slug mix - I took the plug out. Or I take my old (1959 ) Win 30-30 with my very potent reloads. But when hunting moose, I use both 308 Win and 300 Win Mag.
😂I think I will take my 45-70 for big bear. It is easy to pack and I'd a good thumper.
45/70 energy can be close 338win mag level with the right ammunition. Even the medium power HSM Bear Loads are 430gr and about 1800ft/sec = 3098ft/lbs
It can yes just won't carry that energy down range well. It'll bleed out its velocity too quick
I’ll go with both, I’d even throw in a pump action rifle like my Remington 7600.
In 30/06 with heavy bullets, or in a .35 Whelan, it would work fine.
Gosh I love it when both of you Joseph and Ron share the program!! You both bring so much great information to the table and both of you just add so much! Your love and enthusiasm for the shooting sports and experience. Many thanks to you both!
Down here in Mississippi we have a primitive season ( single shot, straight walled cartridges). I cant remember the last time I saw a grizzly down here but we have a ton of 45-70's.,🤣👍
I think it can’t be said enough how svelte a nice lever gun is. For “big” cartridges I’ve got 416 rem, 45-70, and then 30-06. I think personally I’d opt for either the 30-06 or the 416 rem over the 45-70 for a planned hunting situation. What I have considered though is bringing the 45-70 just to tote for the pack out. I think my Henry weighs about 7 lbs and it’s super easy to carry and obviously very handy with its 18” barrel. My handload is a 405 speer at 1850 ft/sec. I’m sure it would be fine for just about anything in a reactionary type situation and it’s not brutal to shoot
I've got both and I think it would be a hard choice even though I haven't been Bear hunting since the early 90's out in the Seattle area.
I have a Puma M92 in 454 Casull that been smoothed out. I love that gun and it’s great for security with hard cast bullets. I carry it in the brush for safety from predators off all types.
I have been thinking about one of those. I might never loaded with 454 casull but moderately Stout 45 Colt will handle any black bear or deer in my area. Moose or elk would be pushing it a little even under 100 yds. If a Selkirk Grizzly Vista...
You two guys together make a wonderful pair for information and knowledge.
Ron, I am so impressed - quite some time ago I commented on one of your shows where you misused better and best. I said better of two and best of three or more. You replied that you had taken note - well, lo and behold, you did, you have and in this show you clearly demonstrated your understanding by nailing it!!! Well done mate.
Underwood and Buffalo Bore make great 45-70 ammo. 200 yard shots are well within reach with ample power.
Ron demonstrated the British rapid bole drill, something I learned on my 03-A3 Springfield. Remember that the British were the last major world power to drop bolt action rifles, the SMLE. A British rifleman could put as many AIMED shots on target as the average guy on a semiauto rifle.
You two are great together, thanks guys, excellent information!
Browning BLR can be had in 450marlin and 300Win mag its Ambidextrous so Lever Action Wins
Hey!, what about the best of both worlds?! Browning BLR in 300 Win Mag or 300 WSM? Distance and speed!
Fantastic podcast! Super fun! I love it!
I found bolt action faster to reload than lever guns. When I open the bolt, can't go into battery because follower is stopping bolt travel, I grab a stripper clip and stick it in the guide and push cartridges into magazine, close the bolt.
In the Army, on the Garand, we had something called the Murphy drill (Murphy's law, Anything that can go wrong generally will, and usually at the worst possible moment."). We started with one cartridge in the rifle. We fire, bolt locks open. We are timed on how fast we can push in a fresh clip and engage the next target.
Clip chargers work great on M-1903 Springfields, Model 721 Remingtons, and every other military or commercial bolt-action with clip-charger slots milled into the receiver bridge, but they're useless on modern commercial bolt-action rifles that lack this feature or have it neutered via mounting an optic over the receiver.
Otherwise, I've found bolt actions to be a "one round at a time" slow to load as my Marlin 336 is.
There's a reason the 45-70 is still around 150 years after it's induction, it's a "sledge hammer" on big game. A Marlin 95 will handle +P loads, and as pointed out, points well, is quick to shoot within it's effective range.
I owned a 95 Marlin (made in 1980's) that I shot 300gr JHP moving 2,200 fps. And yes I was more interested in performance than case life and putting down whatever may desire to eat me.
People are so impressed with easily hyped energy numbers and velocity. .45-70 doesn't need either on those fronts to plow through bison and moose and tree trunks and keep going. It's so underestimated the sort of wounding the big slug can do without the "speedy spear tipped bullets."
I’ve never tried 300 grain slugs in my 45-70. They sound almost interesting enough to try. I’m running 400 grains at 2000 fps at the moment. I can say, without a doubt, that this combination is no joke.
Enjoyed the video gentlemen, thanks for the post.
Great to see Joseph on the program and Team Ron Spomer.
The bottle necked cartridges are great but I really love my lever guns and single actions. I will go with the 45-70 more often than not
Pls tell me more what you hunt and what your set up friend ???
Double Rifle... 375H&H for me. Faster than both, accurate enough out to 200 yards for a Bear size target. Shorter with a better point and plenty of horse power.... Can't beat it.
Nice pairing of hosts here. Great combo.👍
Loved it! You guys crack me up😂
Thanks for a great video! I always enjoy different opinions from a well informed perspective, and that’s certainly where Ron is coming from. I shoot everything with my 300 win mag and hand load my own rounds, but that’s just what works for me and I’m confident in its ability. I love those Barnes bullets and I don’t have a single bad thing to say about them. I currently use a Hammer hunter bullet in 196g, because a couple years ago you simply could not get the Barnes bullets I was accustomed to shooting. I’ve recovered both bullets and I have to say I’m sticking with the Hammer bullets however reluctant I was to switch. Thanks again and happy hunting guys!!
Thank you so much to both of you. I appreciate your videos, very informative !
enjoyable to watch you guys playing off against each other
Great video! My favorite so far. I can see me watching this one more than once.
50-110 In an 1886 Winchester Will Definitely Get The Job Done 350 Grain Hawk Bullet or a 550 Grain Solid 😀😊😀 Ron
Leverguns50 has loaded his to 6400 ft-lb. That's between .458 Lott and .460 Weatherby Magnum.
@@exothermal.sprocket Exactly Jeremy Loads It Hot 😀😊
That was a great video guys.
Took my fist bear with a bolt action, but being in thick woods almost exclusively I switched to a short 45/70 years ago with handloads tailored it doesn’t get any better.
Owning both is the best option like you said.
Just think back in the day when Elmer Keith and Townsend whelen considered 2-1.5” groups phenomenal at 100 for hunting. Those lever actions do the same with correct loads which wasn’t much of a reality back in their day with limited optics and ammo
45-70 for bears over bait, or hound hunting. 300 win mag to 375 h&h for spot and stalk. 416 rem. to 458 lott for coastal brownies, if you can handle the extra weight and recoil.
Boom! It's settled.
I have a Winchester 94AE lever action guide gun chambered in 44 Mag with a 16” barrel. I typically bring with me on black bear hunts. Pretty light and compact and holds 9 in the tube mag. As an AZ bear hunter I’m typically shooting cross canyon with a bolt rifle, but getting into the bottom of canyons in thick brush country to find downed bears that lever action is money. 100% worth carrying the extra couple lbs. great video as always 👌🏼
9 in a 16 inch? I thought they only held 8 with that, the 20s are 10+1
@@WayStedYoumy 94AE 100% is a 16” and the tube holds 9. So I’m able to carry 9+1 if I’m chambered.
BLR... best of both worlds.
Great show
45-70 would be good in a lever, but you could run more power in various calibers in a bolt.
That's the selection
Or grab a lever gun in 50-110 and have over 6000 foot pounds of energy per shot on tap
Ron greatly downplayed the potential behind .45-70.
That’s because he only looks at factory loads that are suitable for the older firearms chambered in 45-70 but like many people have stated newer rifles that can handle increased pressures you can load up 45-70 to be a real cannon
@@imperialwhovian3461 Correct. And I do think Ron knows that fair comparisons are between things of like-potential, not between something loaded weakly vs. something loaded near full potential.
Great Episode!!!
Very wise decision to add Bonadict to the videos. I have a Tikka T3X lite roughtech in 30-06. With a Barnes Vortx 150gr, I can do a 2” group offhand at 100 yards. I’ll add this: what has helped me with flinching is focusing on exhaling before pulling the trigger and making sure my trigger pull doesn’t pull the barrel down.
My choice would be a Remington 7600 in .35 Whelen or .358 Win for a shorter action. With this rig I have enough gun for both brush busting or go longer range.
Excellent choice. My pump whelen is my go to bear gun.
Great choices!
My dedicated black bear rifle is a Ruger American Predator chambered in the brush busting 358 Winchester! I consistently get half inch groups with Buffalo Bore ammo and one inch groups with Hornady!
I'm going to start reloading.. and my choice will be a 225 grain Nosler Partition.
That's the bullet.. that I used to use in my 350 Remington Magnum 😊
I can tell you first hand.. the first shot was all that I needed with either cartridge 😊
@blackie1of4 Fabulous choice. And reloading can be a lot of fun. I think your choice of the 225 grainer is perfect. The .358 Win is a wonderful round and totally under appreciated. I recently bought a Winchester Big Bore 94 in .444 Marlin. It's a unique experience shooting it. It also would make the bear grade rifle category, too.
@@Mark-uq9kmthanks brother
I love the 444 Marlin!
Not so much the Remington factory ammo for it! Doesn't do the job especially on black bear!
Had a hunter get attacked by a wounded black bear a few years ago. Probably ten miles from my house! The bear laid silently hidden.. once he got close.. a few steps away.. it attacked him 😞
Lucky for him.. it didn't have much fight left! A lot of scratches and a few bites later.. and the constant ribbing from his friends!
He shot it five times with those Remington rounds! Hornady puts out a better load :)
@blackie1of4 I started reloading my own T4 ammo. I use a Sierra 240 grain Sportsman bullet which is technically a pistol bullet. I fill the large hollow point with JB Weld and this turns it into a significant rifle bullet. The Sportsman is a pretty tough bullet, regardless. I love the carbine configuration of the Win 94 Big Bore with the 20'' barrel.
Shot placement is everything
A Remington pump-action in 30-06 or, better yet, 35 Whelen, would be better still than any conventional lever gun. Just a shame they’re so hard to find.
The Mauser M18 platform offers a removable magazine and comes in many different calibers. I certainly love mine. I installed iron sights on mine to make it more versatile.
My two cents would be the 45/70 shooting 405gr flat nose cast lead. I run them at a smoking 1250fps. The weird thing is you get better penetration down at those levels. My load and T/C Encore barrel was used to kill a big black bear in Idaho with one shot. Everything I’ve ever shot dropped where it was standing, from wild pigs, raccoons, and a dandy wide 8 at 169 yds.
Loved it
If I was going to hunt Alaskan coastal brown bear, or any very dangerous game I'd pick a Miroku 1886 lever action rifle in 45-90 or 50-110.
Great show liked the very best option own both.
Good points on both sides is the reason that I own both.
I enjoyed this video. Yes, you can run a bolt gun quickly with practice. I shot a bolt gun in NRA high power matches for many years I had to learn to slow down! I own two Marlin 1895 45-70s, one the full size rifle, the other a guide gun with a factory muzzle brake or compensator on the barrel. The guide gun has less muzzle flip and as you said more noise. I would have to flip a coin on which one I would take on a bear hunt.
Awsome Video.
I have a Rossi R92 in .454 Casull, load 10 rounds total of Buffalo Bore hot rounds and it will absolutely do the job and will do a number on your shoulder.
Got here late, now I gotta wait to watch the beginning
The browning blr is great . Pointed bullets in a lever gun . I have one in 325 wsm
My grandfather developed the .50 Alaskan. I’ve shot an original Winchester .50 Alaskan by harold johnson and I’ll never forget it.
I would like proof of you have any.
My Winchester 1895 in .405 Win is my most reliable gun I own. Much more reliable than any bolt action I find as you can cycle it slow or fast and from any angle including upside down. It also holds 4+1.
And that will slap anything you point it at.
Like the advice of staying on the gun and cycling the action for a quick follow up.
Here in Ohio we are relegated to straight wall cartridges for deer, so my 45/70 guide gun is what I would take since I practice with it every deer season. I would use my 405 gr. hard cast flat points at around 1550 out of my 18" barrel. I use the 300gr JHP at 1800 on deer for the long shots. 100 yds is about the max that I can see where I hunt anyways. Just have to carry some bacon around in the alser thickets and let the bear find me.
You the bait lol
Good call on the cast bullets. At least the 45-70 folks can cast and make their own bullets literally from scratch. Is Ohio even an bear hunting state? I'm in the same state as Ron and there's bears but I don't run across them often.
everyone forgets about the browning lever rifle (blr), available in several cartridges up to 30-06 these days, but formerly (not that long ago) available in several magnum loads.
its still can be had new in 5 Magnums 270wsm, 300wsm, 325wsm, 300winmag ,7mm winmag
Well I had an uncle would prove you all wrong lol. He has taken everything in the US with a 30-06 remington game master which is a pump. He was avid hunter all over the US
I think for me the defining factor of a good bolt action is that it at least lets you run it hard well. But preferably it prefers and excels when run hard
Sounds like a mauser type
@@keatonjorgensen8793 mausers definitely do it, so do Tika and the bergaras from Spain but not the us
Great Topic! I’ve owned 2 Winchester Model 94 30-30’s And 3 Winchester Model 70 338 Win Magnums, As Well As Other Models In Over 40 Years Of Hunting In Northern Alberta Canada. Looking To Upgrade To The 45-70 For Brush . Best Of Both Worlds
A cheap custom option for a DG lever is the Winchester 1895 converted to 9.3x62. Since that cartridge is similar to the 30-06 to the extent that it can be formed from it (not recommended) it fits 1895 rifles designed for the 30-06, if they are re-bored, or re-barreled. Then you really have something...
No love for the pump?
I love my 88s. A 88 in 358 Winchester! Fast and longer range.
I've got both bolt action & lever action for bear I've got the Henary 45-70gov shooting 405gr hard cast hand loaded bullets & I've got a 338Lapua Magnum 300gr hand loaded with Lapua brass
Left out the Model 88,99 Savage and Browning lever rifles. All fire bottle neck bolt gun cartridges
0:35 it will be if you keep the dad jokes up like that!
Since your only using 300 grain in 45/70 what think of one of 92 copies in 454 that give you even more rounds of fire. Keep up good work
Neither, just a sign to hold up that reads “attack free zone”.
"Hunt straight, shoot honest" works too!
That's why straight pulls like the Blaser R8 are so popular for "wehrhaftes Wild" in Europe. Big oompf cartridge with a long barrel for the practical length of the rifle and very fast action.
@RonSpomerOutdoor Hi Ron, thank you very much. I am Europe though so I'd rather pay the karma forward to someone in the US to not waste money and resources.
You can also keep a pinch on the bolt which pressing the trigger with the middle finger. Makes it a lot faster but you have to practice practice.
.45 Raptor? Also the old Remington slide action (pump) was chambered in .45-110 and a bunch of others. Anyone who has run a pump shotgun for a length of time can easily rival a semi-auto shotgun.
5 times this summer I had a Ruger/Marlin 45-70 in my hands at the cabin west of Anchorage watching to see what the bears were going to do and all five times I wished I had my scoped 375 bolt mostly because I know exactly what it will do. A low velocity short bullet wasn’t as confidence aspiring as I’d have liked. Personally I’d have rather had a Garand than that lever action. Pretty handy rifle however but not enough experience with it to feel confident. I have used old Winchester lever 45-60 on smaller black bears which wasn’t all that impressive 🤷🏽♂️
I use a pump .30-06 in close cover.
I would choose my Savage 116 in .375 Ruger for hunting brown bears, but would choose my Marlin 1895 45-70 for bear protection.
I DID USE.. a 45/70 for Alaskan Coastal Brown bear..my guide carried 375 Alaskan, bolt.. our encounter on Barenoff island at 20-25 yds a few yrs ago. NO FEAR, CONFIDENCE in my Marlin & 420gr. Buffalo Boar ammo..No lung shot, bear runs hes gone. Game over in Alaska when you draw blood. So my 1st round, right into the shoulder, stop the run, 2nd by guide right over the eye exit behind ear, and still required 4 more 45/70 ASAP.. followups.. My Brown squares at 9'7" 1000 lbs. Scavengers , next day 50% gone.
Bottom line 45/70 great to 200+ yds. For deer in 180gr is still overkill. Deer / black bear..180gr any distance to 500Y with a Bolt action as long as you practice. Thats why i use a Rem 700, 180 PSP. Good luck....to all
For a quick bolt action one of my guilty pleasures was, until the recent wild fire destroyed them, my sporterized smle rifles. I had never been exposed to them growing up here in the US. When my family went to Australia I had the opportunity to shoot one in a rifle match. As I recall we had either at 5 or 7 second exposure during which we were to drop to kneeling and fire a shot. I had fired reloaded and was prepared to fire again about two and a half seconds before the target went down..303 is roughly analogous to a 308 Winchester. The 210 or 215 gr round nose has traditionally been very popular for moose in Canada. At least I can theoretically replace those rifles even here in the People's Republic of Washington. Unlike some others.
I'm surprised you guys didnt even mention a Browning BLR in 358 Winchester....pretty much would cover everything for bolt or lever
I love my 358 BLR and it is pure poison on elk, I have never had occasion to shoot a charging bear with it. They always seem to be going the other direction!
Awesome outro 😂😅😂😅
I just got a henry all weather 45-70 for my birthday so I'd have to go with that, that thing thumps, leaves me smiling every time I shoot it
Check to make sure you can use the ammo they sell but Underwood ammo and Buffalo Bore make increased power 45-70 that better match the capabilities of modern rifles
I see the Javelin bipod adapter on that bolt gun. Great product. $$$, but so light and rigid.
I don't hunt bear, but I've watched several videos of guided bear hunts. My observations have only seen hunters using bolt action rifles. The majority of those hunters are those who are on their one and only guided brown or grizzly hunt that they have saved money for years to afford. Usually, the bolt rifle they carry is an expensive one. The majority of the hunters get really excited and nervous after the first shot and have a terrible time chambering a new round. Certainly not the fault of the gun but the shooter. A lever gun, the shooter can use the recoil to actually be part of ejection and reload process. This is also true for a pump or slide action long gun. This fact makes them better in the event of a charging bear.
I think the bolt gun has a simpler design if you needed to clear mud, dirt or ice from the action or bolt area. I think both designs have merit especially if you practice and anticipate the cons of each.
308 Winchester bolt action with a 180gr soft point
505 Gibson with a 600gr fmj bolt action
Always love watching you you guys. I like both options. The only thing I would do differently is open sights or a red dot for bears in the thickets versus a high powered scope on the lever gun. Looked like an lpvo on the bolt gun and I liked that option. Great video as always.
Thanks! 👍
Lol we kill bears with bows every year!
@@Coonhound719 I like bow hunting too but this was a gun video. Bows were not the subject.
Translated, LPVO is tacticool for a low powered scope, right? 🤦♂️🤣😂
@@raleighthomas3079 kill loooooooots of coyotes with lpvo in 300 blk!! Sooo cry more!!????….
For big bears I shoot a Rem 700 in 458 win mag....Speer 405 gr JSP, Nosler 500 gr partition, Nosler 500 gr solids.
All the guides I know want their hunters to shoot at 200 yds max. 338 mag minimum and really prefer 375 H&H or bigger. I've seen an interior brown bear absorb 5 rds of well placed 375 H&H before he slowed down and finally dropped at 50 yds ! One shot kills are a minority proposition. That is a 800-1000 lb carnivor that can cover 100 yds in under 10 seconds even if hit in the heart. These are extreme bad boys !!!
An outfitter friend of mine had a hunter mauled by a wounded interior grizzly a couple
years ago and had to be flown to Fairbanks to get stitched up and he ended up being okay , but it was a little spicy for a minute before the guide was able to get a safe shot to kill the bear.
Ron. Please do a video on the top 3 scopes for the ultimate rifle caliber. The 7rem mag. My Hawkeye needs some glasses. What would you recommend.
I hate to do this but I have to correct one thing. Active custom molded ear protection is a great solution, it helps you hear better low ("normal") sounds but it will "kill" loud sounds like pew is. Those ear plugs are pricey but when you consider how much we pay for guns, ammo, and other gear, we should spend money on good ear protection. Every pew is a permanent damage to our ears.
This was one of rare occasions when I had to correct you. Love watching your shows.
😂Hilarious! A good shot on any Bear 🐻 of any description
With a reasonable cartridge/ bullet combo will do just fine. And remember there was a time when the.30-30 was the only option and those Bears 🐻 are still very Dead ☠️! 😮
For close range speed, I take Dad's older Remington 750 Carbine in 35 Whelen. For open range I'll take my Sako AV in 9.3x62, that 286 grain bullet penetrates incredibly.
If you really want a stock lever in a legitimate DG load the Winchester 1886, current manufacture, in 45-90 is hard to beat. While it isn't a 458 Win Mag, the case capacity is darn close. The bullet seating is the main difference.
You could get one for 50-110, and get 6000+ ft/lbs. But a 45-90 is better for longer ranges.
I plan on using Bergara HMR 300 PRC for brown bear. I have 5 round box magazine too.
I have never had to face a bear, however I believe my best chance would be with a lever action. 45-70