Bear Defense Handguns
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Welcome to Ron Spomer Outdoors. In this video, we talk with Joseph Von Benedikt about his recommendations for bear defense handguns. There are several options to choose from, but we try to weigh the pros and cons of each to help you with your decision-making process as you are looking to buy a bear defense handgun.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
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All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely. - กีฬา
The reason the soldier dropped to one knee, is because if you're standing and have to shoot at a bear running toward you, if you shoot at the head your bullet may hit the bear in the rear end because it's moving so fast. If you drop to one knee the bullet is traveling the length of the bear. That's why he got one center to chest and one in the head!
Right on 👍
Needed to be said.
Another way to state the same point: drop to one knee so you don't have to track your aim as the bear is approaching, your aim stays at the same angle / more likely to hit where you need to.
Excellent point.🐧
Well put,,,iv never heard this advice before,,,
True alot of ppl shoot over the bear especially with a rifle. bears are extremely fast Steve ishdal said this as well in one of his bear stories.
I legitimately didn’t know Ron knew pistols existed??? First time I’ve seen a video on a “short gun”!!!
Hunters should always have a sidearm.
What is this pistol voodoo you speak of?
@@joeyindahl2593 Why, the 1911 made by St. Browning chambered in God's caliber .45 ACP of course. It will not only kill your adversary's body but also their soul.
It’s a short rifle I think
Guy's, don't sleep on that 1911 in 45acp, the key is running it with 45 Super 255grn hardest, 230 or 185grn Underwood extreme defense or extreme penetrator or Buffalo bore rounds If You can't hand load. You need the fully supported chamber/ barrel( typical of almost any standard 1911 in 45) a 22 to 28lb recoil spring, get that 15 or 16lb out of there for running the Super cartridges. Proper loadings of this is equally capable of better than 10mm, basically it's personal preference at that point. Perhaps this fella hasn't heard much about this little known cartridge. Stay safe, GOD bless and help us all.
I taught school in a Native village on the Yukon and carried a .41 magnum with 220 hard cast Buffaloes Bore. Back then everyone had either a .44 mag. or .41 magnum. The people carrying the .44 mag. said they just bought the biggest they could. The .41 magnum people explained that the.41 traveled further in the bear and the lesser recoil allowed for a follow up shot with more precision in aiming!
I see more people talking about the .41 but it really deserves more attention. Awesome round
The people that have a 41 magnum love it to death.
41 mag for me👍
I have 2-41 magnums I shoot more accurately with them than my 44 Magnum. Less recoil
@@robertohlund9408
Do you reload? Or do you have any issues finding ammo?
In another discussion, there was a hunting guide who says he skips the handgun approach entirely in bear country. He carries an AR-SBR chambered in 450 SOCOM and wears it in a chest rig. Maybe not as convenient as a handgun but he's going to be more accurate and will have a lot more rounds to send down range.
Yup, all you have to do is look at the ballistic performance of any center fire big game rifle and compare that to the muzzle energy of any "magnum" handgun. Unless we're talking about ridiculously powerful handguns like the .500 S&W, having recoil that most people are incapable of handling, the terminal ballistics of just about any big game hunting rifle at 100-200 yards is far superior to just about any "magnum" handgun's terminal ballistics at the muzzle.
thanks to our lib gov that's illegal now.. they get their jollies when a hunter is attacked
This is probably the best answer in what to carry in bear country
@@markihde4381, Handguns are only a backup when you can't get your rifle into play, which is MOST of the time in a real, up close bear attack. However, the 10mm is taking over here in Alaska as the PRIMARY bear deterrent. It works, light, fast & instinctive shooting when there's no time to aim w massive firepower. And, most likely to be kept ON you all the time. A rifle you have to swing into play or is just an inch out of reach might as well be on the moon for all the good it will do you when the SHTF. Most bear attacks start around 15 yards or less. You'll have 1-maybe 2 seconds to react before it has you. Alaska bushman 30 years, multiple attacks. Only twice was I able to use my rifle which was IN my hand. 45/70 lever gun. Other attacks were at point blank range. No time for the rifle.
@@tristantimothy1004 3.5 inch .44 mag is a must for bear country
The soldier dropping to one knee is what we called a “training scar”. When we were firing and didn’t have an actual barricade we simulated by dropping to one knee. Awesome video guys! Thanks.
Hahaha, not.
I'm not sure that barricades have much to do with it. We were always taught that your steadiest shot is prone. Next best is kneeling or sitting, whichever you can, and that standing fire with no braces is simply done for mobility or better visual range. It is inherently the least accurate position.
I carried a 4” S&W 29 for years in Wyoming during bow season and when fishing in the back country. It is heavy, but I practiced a lot with it and had complete confidence in it. Saved my partners life once with that gun.
Bear attack?
Same gun saved my life
@hotwheel6663 no, shot his charging wife when she figured out he was cheating.
Lol
@@hotwheel6663 bull moose charge, in camp at 10 yards
I enjoy listening to your show, I’ve learned a lot. I lived in Alaska for 33 years and work as a paramedic part of my duty is bear watch/ bear hazing.
I noticed you said not many bear attacks in Alaska, there’s quite a few they don’t make the news anymore like they used to. I’ve had by two neighbors attacked by grizzlies, a coworker as a flight medic had two patients badly mauled
by brown bears . Heard or read numerous accounts of people using pepper spray during a bear attack not one case did it have any effect on the bear. I carry a 44 mag a 454 Casul. Thanks for your TH-cam channel.
ive met a large number of people who have had success with bear spray. Ive also met a number of people who have had success with handguns and long guns. They all have their time and place and drawbacks.
@@alexdrockhound9497, Willing to bet your LIFE on spray that hardly ever works & NEVER in a real attack. AK F&G for 25 years bud & spray belongs in a dumpster. It's only bunnyhugger morons who say it works all the time. It DOSENT & should be banned completely.
I agree, as an Alaska resident for 63 years, we know that many Bear, and moose, encounters are not reported often. As well, homeowners here carry, and do execute a charging threat, call troopers after, case settled
@@alexdrockhound9497 Have you ever spoken with someone who didn't have good luck with bearspray? There are very few!!!
Thanks for sharing that.
In Arizona my risk from a bear attack is relatively low but my risk from feral dogs ( we lost a young lady on the Navajo Reservation recently) and feral people is real. One logical option is .357 from my Gp 100 or my 686
I actually made a video about surviving dog attacks if you're interested.
I've also made videos about bear defense and .357 magnum is more than capable. With proper hardcast lead loads it has well over 64 inches of penetration in clear ballistics gel.
th-cam.com/video/vPkmP29zjp8/w-d-xo.html
That's what I pack in Colorado. Ammo selection is important. I use 180 grain hard cast flat nose moving around 1300 fps.
You have feral humans there too ? That's frightening
@@Diego-m3g6g every one and every place has feral people... It's just response time sucks where you have 10 people or less per square mile.
Feral people?
Alaskan here - Yes, bush pilots that transport hunters usually have a pile of bear spray and also camp stove fuel they will let you pick from. They carry bear spray and fuel in the plane floats or other outside storage. I carry a 10mm model 1911. It’s a thumper and is very reliable. I like that it is flat. Several years ago, a guy in Kenai was attacked by a brown bear and he shot it with his .44 Magnum revolver. He got four shots off when the gun jammed. One of the bullets had moved forward under the heavy recoil and pulled out of the case far enough to bind the cylinder. So if you do carry heavy loads, make sure the crimp is really tight!
What about .460 Rowland? That's my go to bear handgun in what began as a Glock 21. I had to upgrade the magazine springs to accommodate the increases slide speed in addition to the other upgrades, which makes loading 13 too tough to seem to be a good idea, but 12 + 1 of 1000 ft-lbs of energy with a well-functioning compensator is a lot of power in a relatively light package. The polymer frame is also much more forgiving to the shooter than a short barrel .44 mag.
Lone wolf has a titanium spring rod that unscrews at both ends. My glock is a gen 4 so i had to use some washers at the magazine end of the spring rod😂. 17 lb to 24 lb springs. I had broken an all stainless spring rod and springs from someone else that had broken. I ended up getting titanium pins for the entire glock off midway. I use 460 rowland brass shortened for my high powered acp rounds i load hot. Couldnt get the rowland conversion so did as much work around as possible
I think the soldier dropped to one knee to be on the same plane as the bear. That way you don't have angle intersection shooting, it would be flat, straight on. Easier to hit the target. Smart move.
I describe in this video why doing that is not necessarily a good idea. th-cam.com/video/oFTqBOeZgV0/w-d-xo.html
I talk about that at roughly 24:20 in the video.
@@infogunvault6920Good show I enjoyed it Obviously he was staying calm and thinking about bullet placement. Going to one knee leaves the other knee in an elevated position which can be used as a rest for an elbow to steady the aim. Right knee, for right handed people, left elbow on the raised knee, two handed grip. Shooting off hand is quicker but not as steady. While in the Military I used to turn my right foot to lay flat on the ground and sat on it for the kneeling position, Range Master allowed it because I was not sitting on the ground.
Saw a comment from a hunting guide that had many encounters with black and grizzly bears. He stated the charge of a grizzly bear and the amount of ground it can cover can not be over emphasized. He recommended that if you have to shoot a charging bear, go to a knee (as you described the military man doing) and shoot at the bear parallel to the ground, or,, based on it's amazing speed, your shots are most likely going to be hitting the ground behind the bear because you won't be swinging down on the bear fast enough to engage it before it's on you.
Grizzly bears can run at 40mph.
I describe in this video why doing that is not necessarily a good idea.th-cam.com/video/oFTqBOeZgV0/w-d-xo.html
I talk about that at roughly 24:20 in the video.
Good thing I'm short so a slight bend in the knee would suffice for me.
Killed one charging bear at the base of a snow slide on the edge of a spruce forest. No way was I going to get down on one knee. Might as well as made it two and prayed for all the good that would have done me.
@@interrestrial9815 what is the point in staying standing up? Its not like youre gonna outrun the thing. By kneeling you get a nice straight shot. I would say circumstances would dictate whether to kneel or stand.
But hey...nice shooting man!
As someone who works as a back country pilot/fishes/& hunts in the grand bear country of AK they are not usually an issue. But when they decide to be, you better have a way of deterring them. Personally I carry a 5" ported 5 shot Taurus tracker double action in .44 with 310 gr hardcast. I buy a box of 50 cowboy action loads at sportsmans every time I'm there and at least once a month I'll shoot a box of 50 to warm up, then I shoot the wheel of bear loads I've been carrying and then load a fresh wheel for carry.
Good choice, .44 magnum has never failed to stop a bear attack in any documented bear attack in human history.
To me the .44 mag 4" is the best that exist to stop bears !
3" Raging Judge. Yes, I'm from TX. Carry it because we have hogs, bobcats, coyotes, and snakes with bears on the way. I like the ability to select rounds.
A felonious friend uses a heavily modified .455 caliber Uberti Dragoon. 45gr of compressed Triple 7 over a 260gr cast flat point.
It's what he can have (your state's laws may vary).
I don’t go with hard cast, I carry the Lehigh penetrators loaded by underwood. Penetration of the monolithic with tissue disruption like a hollow point is a excellent combination by my estimation.
Jay, Try both, alternate the shells. Best of both worlds. Underwoods & Buffalo Bore make the best/ hottest hard casts & the WFN for some weird reason has an amazing pressure wall in front of it causing plenty of disruption. Travels straighter too where the penetrators seem to vear off more.
Great round I agree your get best of both worlds
I carry lehigh xtreme penetrators as well. Theyre perfect for large predators. Theyll go through anything you point them at, even in smaller calibers.
Only thing ill say is, they dont produce any permanent cavitation in real tissue. they lack the velocity to do that. if you've seen cavitation in ballistics gel, thats because ballistics gel is not a simulation of tissue, its just a standardized media for comparing performance, it doesnt represent what a projectile will do in living tissue. with real ballistics gel you can poke your finger right through it. And that clear synthetic ballistics gel is a lot harder than the FBI standard ballistics gel, but also breaks apart differently.
That being said, hollow points show cavitation in ballistics gel too, but in real tissue they dont. they only create crushing type wound tracts that are the diameter of the expanded bullet.
The diameter of a wound channel for a handgun cartridge is essentially inconsequential. shot placement and penetration depth are the two metrics that are truly important. As long as you can shoot the round well enough to have fast well placed shots, and those shots can penetrate deeply enough, then you've got a winning combination, regardless of caliber. (this only applies to handgun cartridges, things change a lot for rifle cartridges)
@@alexdrockhound9497 , Have you checked out "Phil Schumakers 9mm grizzly kill."? Not a head shot in the bunch but he stopped a charging grizzly up close w a single stack 9. What BALLS that guy has! 😁
@@tristantimothy1004 yeah, aiming center mass is definitely the best idea when it comes to a fast moving animal. trying to pull off a headshot on a charging grizzly seems like an exercise in futility to me.
I personally carry a double stack 9mm. I think 9mm with a good deep penetrating bullet design should definitely be enough to stop a bear, but single stack is definitely starting to get sort of sketchy.
Did you hear of that woman who killed a grizzly with a .22long? (not to be confused with .22 LR)
People act like grizzly bones are made out of AR500. theyre flesh and blood like everybody else, but they are pretty thick, and pretty pissed off.
I have a model 329PD 44 magnum for ease of carry. It has been quad ported by Mag-Na-Port and wears a 500 S&W Hogue recoil absorbing grip. And the lighter titanium cylinder was replaced with a stainless steel aftermarket fluted stainless steel S&W brand cylinder instead. I carry it in a Monarch Shoulder Holster made by Andrews Custom Leather. Weighs just under 30 ounces.
I had a firearms instructor who had 2 catchphrases that I use for training. 1. "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast." meaning you should be methodical and accurate. 2. "You cannot miss fast enough to win a gunfight" Like Joseph said, shoot accurately, speed will come.
These guys actually have a really nice flow and articulation of their ideas. Both would be pretty decent public speakers.
My wife and I used to take our 35 foot Class A Motor Home to Arizona, from South Dakota every winter to get away from the cold and snow, we loved the trip and always had a wonderful time while down there. I pulled my Jeep behind and once sit up in a camp ground the Jeep was our means of exploration in the desert and mountains of that great state. I always carried a M1911A1 unless we were going to cross over the line and enter California, we camped just a mile from that State Line. I keep it stuffed with 230 grain hardball loaded to standard military specs. I never had to use it, thank God but I was always comfort able having it on my belt when we ventured out in the desert, or into the cities. Alas I lost my good wife just days after our 51st wedding anniversary in 2020, and sold off the RV a few years ago, well basically gave it away to get out from under the Monthly payments and insurance costs.
If you carry a semiautomatic handgun for bear defense, if it has a rail on the frame, put a weapon light on it that protrudes a bit past the muzzle so that if a bear is on top of you you push that weapon light into the bear and it not interfere with the cycling of your slide.
That's a good idea. Another good idea is keeping a handgun on each side of your body. I've talked about in one of my bear defense videos where a guy was being attacked and he couldn't get to his bear spray because his arm was in the bear's mouth. Luckily he had a gun on his other side that he did have access to.
Guns are obviously more effective anyhow. Because bear spray worked in only 33% of aggressive brown charges according to a study that I mention in my videos.
Life savings, God be with you
⭐⭐⭐⭐
@@infogunvault6920 that is *another* piece of great advice.
Yeap. That's why revolvers are more popular when camping as a back up gun. Semi-auto handguns have their place. But if you have that muzzle right up against an animal of that MASS on top of you. Not going to fire. Light deal, is a good idea,
I absolutely found this video extremely informative. I have been watching your videos for a long time and loved them. But this video reinforces why i carry a 10mm or 44 mag handgun when hunting. You just never know what you walk up on, or what may come up on you. Great video guys!!!
Look man you cannot compare a 10 mm to a 44 Magnum, I don't give a damn about the 10 mm capacity, come on man you got a 40 caliber bullet going 1150 ft a second that's a damn joke, and you rarely get 1200 out of a 200 grain bullet, you might get 1250 out of 180 grain but not a 200 so please man don't compare a 10 mm to a 44 Magnum
@@gregalcorn-pu5ye Nobody compared a 10mm to a 44 mag except you, simmer down sally
@@gregalcorn-pu5ye15 rounds of a .400 solid copper 115 grain round at over 1700 fps (chrono confirmed) doesnt suck. A 450B if I have the time. A 44 would be nice anyday if you can afford one and can find the large pistol primers. Blazer and federal 10 uses small pistol primers although the federal factory loads are weak enough i have to drop down to a 17 lb spring to keep them from stove piping
So nice to see Joseph for the first time. Been listening to his podcast (Backcountry Hunting podcast) for quite some time. Fantastic wealth of knowledge.
Good cartridges for bear defense are as follows:
180gr .357magnum (hard cast flat nose, hot loads), these will penetrate just as much as a 44 magnum per testing
240gr and heavier .44 magnum (hard cast flat nose, hot loads)
10mm 200gr or heavier (hard cast hot loads).
.45acp+p 255gr hardcast (Buffalo Bore or Underwood; the sectional density of .18 is equivalent to a 200gr 10mm) with 5" barrel, but preferably not with other options available. Also Xtreme penetrator Underwood loads, the heavier the better.
.45 Super 230gr or heavier for higher sectional density. Xtreme Penetrator Underwood loads also.
.460 Rowland heavy loads
45 Colt+p in strong revolvers (Ruger), at least 280+ grain.
.454 Casull
.480 Ruger
.475 Linebaugh
You can use a .460 S&W mag or equivalent but the guns get to be a cinder block and unwieldy.
You need to learn to reload and cast in other metals then lead. Zinc is a good metal for dangerous game.
Even a 9mm +p 124gr hard cast bullet will have a lot penetration.
@@Gieszkanne Maybe you should look up Fort Scott and see what can be done with CNC machined copper.
@@hartstudebakerkid tell me
I have a S&W 460XVR revolver carried in a cross-chest rig, and it's not too bad. (Also carry a Glock 20SF on the hip when in the woods out back, which is where the black bears are. Eastern NC, they get big here.) I do like to load the 460 with Buffalo Bore hardcast .454 Casulls though, not .460 Magnums. The Casulls are a little easier to handle, recoil-wise, for followup shots, and will still get the job done if I do my part.
You both are great, I'm not a hunter or outdoorsman I would probably would be mauled by a duck.😂😂🤣 But I appreciate the experience that you both have and the stories are riveting. Thank You both👍👍
Hey, ducks can be pretty...uh....Loud....Geese, on the other hand, can really flap the chett out of a....Child...😂
second side arm back up with the rifle in Alaska hunting or just out in the woods, in the 60s was the 357 Ruger SA, pretty much would take care of anything. it was cheap reliable.
A back woods handgun should be very similar to your every day carry handgun. So when you train with your EDC it will also apply to your back woods handgun.
As someone who has carried firearms professionally for decades, in the military, in big cities, and in bear country, I 100% agree with you. In fact I would recommend using the *same* gun all the time as much as possible.
True, but if you normally carry a .25 auto you're only going to piss it off. A .380 might work if you don't miss at all. You really need something that will drop it fast, or it's going to kill you before it dies.
@@okgroomer1966 In the few documented incidents where a .380 has been used for bear defense, it has been 100% effective in stopping the attack. Handguns overall are 98% effective in documented cases, at stopping bear attacks.
This topic never gets old and perhaps because so much of it is theoretical. We just don't have a good dataset of actual occurrences of somebody defending against a predatory grizzly bear with a handgun. I like the advice of not hunting alone in bear country.
100 percent . I had to shoot one here in norther bc hunting elk . He came in predatory and my 300wsm did the job at 20 yards . I don’t hunt alone anymore and my number 1 priority is being ready for that situation .
we have an outstanding database of actual bear attacks, you just didn't know about it. read the ongoing ammoland study on this subject.
@@Valorius Yep. Ammoland has compiled an amazing amount of verified data on this subject.
I no longer hunt big game, or chukars, because my aged knees won't allow me to anymore [ damn-it ], but I do still get out into the great outdoors, and of course I am always ' packing ' when in the woods [ my personal rule of which I do not ever, ever violate ], but you guys touched on, barely, on a point that I have always stressed on and advocated, and that is shooting and becoming VERY FAMILIAR with ' your' personal firearm. The reason{s} are many fold. 1] One needs to be familiar with the operation of ' that ' firearm that you have chosen to carry, 2] One needs to be comfortable with its power and be able to shoot it reasonably accurate, and if not, then move on to another cartridge/gun that you can shoot proficiently, 3] Shoot/practice often with your gun of choice. Remember: Shooting is/should be FUN. And instructional to you. All these things will give one a confidence that they can take care of themselves, and a wonderful sense of security. And to the nubies and persons on the fence regarding firearms, I will say firearms ARE NOT the boogy man. The boogy-men are mentally ill people that are not the norm. That is the truth.
I live in rural Alaska and own livestock. Between mid-April and end of October, I am always armed with a Mossberg 12 GA loaded with Brenneke Black Magic Slugs when I tend to my farm and carry it with me on archery hunts. I can do more damage in less time with a pump-action shotgun than I ever could with a handgun or a bolt action rifle. And for reference, a 600 gr slug at 1360 fps is on par with a 500 S&W with a 500 gr bullet.
Some great info! I'll probably never be in a position to encounter more than a black bear in the back yard or on a hike. I'm glad he mentioned 10mm as being adequate. I am currently looking at a Rock Island 2011 in 10mm with a 16+1 capacity
I have one and really like it but it's a heavy sucker with that all steel frame, almost considering getting a Glock 20 to save a full pound of weight while backpacking.
@@A_potato9772I find it’s not so bad if you have a chest holster. But I’ve looked into a Glock 20 as well.
Glocks have versatility. Have spring rods from 17 lb to 24 lb for my hot load 45acp rounds in 45 super or 45 win mag shortened brass. 10 mm conversion i also shoot 40 s&w in. The extractor catches the extractor groove in the brass case. Same as 45acp or super in a 460 rowland gun. When the 10 mm case mouths start splitting, can shorten to 40 length and load as 40. Ill shallow seat a little too. 777 works in 10mm with 175 grain bullet mould but with black powder substitutes, same as black powder applies. No airspace. 10 mm in the bottom of the mag and 40 in the top for city defense. 40 for target and 10 for everywhere else. Lone wolf the titanium spring rod comes apart at both ends. Titanium pins everywhere else. Black powder dirties the gun big time. Complete strip down. Versatility 😊
Model 41
its amazing how bears can take such high powerful rounds. what a beast.
I can't stress enough how important it is to listen to real experts and hunters like these men.
Lack of my own experience almost killed me.
I got myself into a very bad situation with a 500+ pound Texas hog when I went to the cage with just .44 specials loaded in my Model 29.
I was alone, it was night, and I just had a Wal-Mart flashlight. I didn't drive the ATV or the car up to it, I walked out. Once again, dumb and arrogant. I knew it was big, just not 600 pounds big...
I shot that animal all six times before it charged, and flipped the cage, it was 5 foot away with a bead on me, and I was standing with an empty revolver.
Use Magnum rounds!
I luckily had a ghm9, which is like a tec-9 under my arm, I tucked the pistol under my left armpit and fired about 15 rounds at the animal, with at least 1 bouncing off its forehead, it turned and ran about 50 feet, and I fired 10 morehitting it's side, but was not dead.
I had to speed load 6 magnum rounds into the Smith & Wesson, it took 3 more to the head before it died.
The cage had a broken weld and the tooth matched the scrape.
Anyone who deals with a very large animal like a bear can attest, and this is the most important thing - a charging or attacking animal is much different than an unexpected shot, in that the animal can take much more.
You can kill a Grizzly easy with any round when it isn't looking, wait for a heart shot, but a charging animal is much different.
A Bear obviously, but also a big hog, a bull (Longhorns) and moose need big rounds.
The hog I shot was over 9 foot stretched out and could only be lifted by a Deere 5150 full size tractor.
The thing may have been 700 and I have photos.
He dropped to one knee so that the trajectory of the bullet would be parallel and in line with the track of the bear's head, eliminating the need to lead the fast-moving target. Technique validated with a successful headshot. Solid partner there, Ron.
I live and hunt in heavy forest. I'm fairly new to hunting but carry a handgun more for mountain lions than bears. I've had very close encounters with black bears never had to shoot. We both just go our separate ways if we stumble across each other. It's different if their are cubs involved.
I absolutely love the dialogue and in-depth knowledge provided. Thank you very much!
I bought two revolvers in different calibers. Both had the same sites. I filed one down and left the other alone. To site them in. I never knew they planned for that before your video. Thanks 👍🏼
Later for BEAR SPRAY..... I carry a 12-gauge shotgun which is loaded with Custom hardcast slugs and a. 44 Magnum revolver and. 454 Casul backup and my Bear Knife. I'm not going out without a fight. I delt with Canadian Bears on my property in 1991 and all I had at the time was a old 45-90 rifle with only 10 rounds of ammo. After that experience I'm was better prepared for wildlife encounters.
38 special with hard cast is good enough for me. 40 s&w with weaponlight in the tent at night
Comments from an Old Alaskan:
The S&W 629 Backpacker 3" is what I carried crossdraw in bear country. In reality, I guy is going to be very lucky using a .44mag during a bear attack which is generally a surprise attack. I carried penetrator ammunition manufactured by "Gary's Bullets" in Anchorage. My feeble mind cannot remember the manufacturer of the bullet and years ago Gary said it is no longer available.
I heard that guys are going to the 10mm; I wonder how it has performed in real life and death bear situations. It might be easier for my arthritic hands if I ever visit bear country again.
As far as the bear mentioned as shot four times with a .44 mag. Heck, a brown bear can pack lead like no other animal and they do have a memory for such things. The bear might show up again in a nastier mood than before.
Also of note, my wife's Grandfather was a guide and disappeared on Admiralty Island back in the '50s. He was working for Fish and Game at that time. Presumably, a bear was involved but never proven. Remains were never found.
Two more thoughts; all handguns are marginal against a brown bear and don't forget the double action feature on your revolver ..............
I use a 460 for weasels. Very aggressive beasts.
I specifically bought the S&W460 for backpacking in bear country and wanted to be able to train with the cheaper 45 colt rounds. I can't say I'm quick draw mcgraw yet but I don't find the medium length barrel 460 too heavy or bulky and it came with a comfortable holster that just took a little getting used to in my opinion. I don't want to mess up the rifling but I did find some rat shot 45 shells that might be good for a snake or two as well. Good hunting.
I don’t hVw grizzly bears where I live but I do have mountain lions and they do attack people from time to time. They even wander into a city and cause some panic. Because if that, whenever I’m out in the hills and mountains, I carry my 10mm XD with a light on it. I keep it simple with 180 grain flat nose bullets and I feel pretty safe that way.
Just to touch on the thumb snap holsters, I find that to be important in all types of carry, including concealed EDC. You want every chance possible that the gun stays secured to your body in case you get in a fight or knocked over like the guy in the story.
Ron I carry a 45acp for every day carry ; but when I go visit my friend in Montana near Yellowstone I Carry a Torus 44mag with a 6" barrel and when I'm there that's what I carry,and I have a company there in Montana that does hand loads and I use hard cast bullets in my 45 & my 338 Lapua Magnum and I run 405 hard cast in my 45-70goverment
My 10mm is a 480.
Love it. SBH. Run 410 grain hardcast.
Hard cast only needs about 1000 ft/sec. I don't think I could wear out my SBH with hot loads.
I run a separate riggers belt for my holster. I can move it anywhere on my body. Including chest if needed.
Your story is why I don't like grip safeties. my bow hunters safety course had a long time ranger from Montana teaching. He talked of many grizzly bears surviving multiple high powered rifle shots..and just walking off to not die.. in that same class 3 people had stories of bear spray exploding.
I can dump all 5 rounds quick into a smaller than bear size target.
If I'm guaranteed to meet a bear I take a 12ga, buck and slug staggered.
I have a couple of firearm choices in 750 grain as well.
I hunt alone most my whole life. Learned from someone in Alaska. If your gun is 2 feet away it's too far.
Your point of impact will change drastically with the different loads. Light to extremely heavy..I recommend orange front blade as well.
I say too. Understand your penetration factor of your firearm and load. Over penetration could kill your buddy defending him from an attack.
I know two people in Montana who were killed by grizzlies. Both were very experienced in the backcountry. Both made critical mistakes.
I carry either an Anaconda with Buffalo Bore loads or a .45-70 with Buffalo Bore as well.
Buffalo Bore explicitly states that you should NOT shoot their 44 heavy magnum loads through ANY S&W frame.
Lived in Alaska, most of us used 10mm Glock 20/ Glock 40 with a chest rigg/ holster.
My father in law was killed in 2001 in Montana. He had killed an elk and was beginning to field dress the elk. He has leaned the rifle against a tree just 12’ away. Make sure when you carry, you always keep it on your person and accessible.
I live in black bear country and for 50 yrs I have carried either a ruger blackhawk or a S&W model 57 in 41magnum . this caliber loaded with a keith 230 grn hardcast bullet I believe would also work for grizzly bears
That reminds me of the story of Steve Rinella how 8 people got caught by surprise and couldn't react on time. And also at the same place 2 weeks later two soldiers had the same situation possibly with the same bear and killed it mid charge.
It says a lot... No matter who you are you never know until it happens!
I'm a texan, ex military and ex law enforcement, handgun and long range competitor, SWAT commander. I lived in Alaska for a long time , first as an F-15C pilot with the 43rd tfs at Elmendorf AFB in Anchorage, then i remained and worked as a bush pilot all over Alaska before getting married, having kids, and going to work and eventually retiring from Continental airlines, after moving back to my native Texas.
My wife wanted to move to Texas..I love my home state but i miss Alaska so much.
I hunted all over the state, i was invited on a native whale hunt in Barrow, i got to land on glaciers, water, sand bars, anywhere basically flat lol.
I had many run ins with bear and moose- i actually worry more about moose than bears. Get between a momma moose and her young-un and youll see why!😮
Dead is dead, no matter the method!
But i had an amazing time, living in the bush for 9 years then moving to North Pole for 5 and just flying in the bush.
Since i didnt spend as much time hiking, i carried a crossdraw 454 casull revolver or a .50ae Desert Eagle in a chest rig. I know, I know but it packed a wallop and it looked cool, the most important thing to a fighter pilot, lol
Great video, Guys, thanks!
I hate hunting but i love listent to you two fine gentelmens.
One thing that helps when shooting a .44 mag is wearing a bicycle glove. It has half fingers for more dexterity, and a well padded palm area to help reduce felt recoil....
your guest is OUTSTANDING
Bear spray is allowed in checked baggage when you’re flying. However, there are specific guidelines to follow:
The volume of the spray must be less than 4 ounces.
The active ingredient concentration should be under 2%.
So, that's limiting enough that it may just as well be a ban. The average can is probably around 9.2oz. A four ounce might be pretty wimpy in the face of a big bear, especially if there is any wind. I see sprays advertising anywhere from 2% to 10% OC.
I've heard that 10mm is a good bear round if you prefer semiautos.
I've confronted human threats, both in combat and on the street as a civilian, and can attest to the affects of adrenalin and stress when dealing with someone who wants to kill you, as well as the benefits of being aware of your surroundings (mitigating the surprise advantage of an attacker even slightly increases your odds of survival immensely ) and training in realistic scenarios because in reality a defensive shooting is almost always going to involve movement of yourself, the threat, and other individuals and will likely be over with quicker than most shooting ranges will allow you to fire half of a 10 round magazine. I have also experienced 3 close calls while hunting feral hogs, one was a 150 lb sow chasing me away from her piglets and one was a very large boar that I had not noticed while tracking two large sows. The first indication I had of his presence was when the charge started with a grunt/growl sound behind me and he launched from about 10 feet away. The third was when tracking a wounded boar of around 245 lbs, he finally decided he was not going to retreat anymore and launched towards me from about 7 feet away. The 150 lb sow chased me through the woods for almost 200 yards with me taking multiple poorly aimed shots on the run with an M1 carbine until I managed to hit her spine between her front shoulders. The very large boar (definitely in the well over 500 lb size range had been feeding on fish gut piles at a popular fishing site nearby) moved so quickly that I was only able to spin around and fire a single shot of 74GR .223 "Hog Slammer" out of my AR 15 at about 4 feet away from the hip grazing his nose and jaw, causing just enough of a reaction that he veered of into the brush missing me by about 2 feet. He stayed in the brush nearby but I never got another shot at him even though he followed me back to the truck. A 968 pound hog was killed and recorded by fish and game a few miles from that spot about 6 months later, was it him? I dont know for sure but based on the size of what came at me I wouldn't doubt it. The wounded boar I had tracked to a point where we stood face to face about 7 feet away, I had my 12 Guage pump shotgun already lined up on his face when I saw his muscles tense I sent 9 00 Bucksot pellets into his forehead in a 2.5 indiameter circle and he literally stopped in his tracks. I can say for sure that each of the hog charges created more stress and adrenalin than any encounters with humans that I've ever had. I can only imagine what the effects of a large attacking grizzly would have. Im impressed by anyone who survives such an event.
My edc is the Glock 29...No matter where I go. 👌🏽10MM Flat Nose for the trails👌🏽
I carry a Springfield XD elite 10 MM, but I live in Minnesota only blackbear
.460 Rowland in an FNX-45 Tactical gives you 15 rounds of .44 magnum power in a very carryable handgun. Underwood Ammo has 200gr solid copper Xtreme Penetrators at 1400fps/ 871 ft. Lb of muzzle energy and 255gr lead hardcast at 1300fps/957 ft. Lb of muzzle energy.
A wealth of knowledge in this video. I never would've thought about swapping a recoil spring based on the distance of brass ejection. Obviously use common sense for muzzle energy of your cartridge.
When I hike up north, where we do have coyote, Black Bear, and Wolves. I carry a G27 Gen 5 with Buffalo Bore. If a man can stop a grizzly with a 9 you can stop a black bear with a 40.. it's easy to carry
We have bears out the wazoo here in Yakutat. The bears on the east side of the bay are chill compared to the west side. We have had a few fatal maulings
One of my favorites is the beautiful Ruger Redhawk Kodiak Backpacker 5028 Magnum 2.75" barrel 44.00 oz. In the city, I load it with 44 Special (300-500 ft/lbs), but in the country, I load 44 Mag (500-800 ft/lbs). Yes, I have a 460 S&W 8.38" barrel 72.20 oz (2402 ft/lbs), but that is NOT a weapon I would carry.
. 460 Rowland upgrade for 1911, Glock 21, Springfield XD/XDS
Same ft lbs of energy as the 44 magnum
I know I am late to the discussion, but I am surprised you did not bring up using 454 Casul or .460 S&W because you can practice with .45 Long Colt
Great discussion, fellas. I did have to raise an eyebrow about the claimed velocity from that 2-3/4" 44 mag though. 1200 FPS with 300+ grain bullets is just not a realistic number. That's a top end load from a 6" or 7" barrel, and I would expect maybe 900 and change from a 2-3/4" tube. Curious where you got those numbers from. Garrett is claiming 1020 FPS with the 310 grain hard-cast from a 4" bbl. The reason I bring this up is because velocity is a big part of stopping power. When I was choosing a revolver I went with a 6" S&W Model 29 for the extra velocity I'd get over the 4" bbl. I shoot a staggered mix of 270 grain Speer Gold Dots, 260 grain hard-cast lead flat point, and 300 grain hard-cast lfp. My revolver is a bit heavy for packing long distances but I mostly just carry it when I walk my dog in the Idaho mountains. With the long barrel I carry on the left hip for cross draw since I have trouble drawing it from my right side.
Great interview and video. There is SO much debate on this, but while there is always room for discussion, these points seem pretty definitive. And God bless Joseph for thinking I have a "protruding hip bone"... 😂
.45 Colt Super Blackhawk with Linbaugh loads 310gr @1,400fps
A customer of mine lives in Spitsbergen and says that he doesn't even pee at night without his 308 because of the polar bears!🐻❄The worst thing is that they don't necessarily kill you (unlike a lion, for example) before they start eating you, they just realize that you can no longer defend yourself.😱 Greetings from Germany
After a couple of black bear encounters in the U.P. of Michigan I started training in case of a bear attack. I practice the knee drop. I worry about having to protect my kill and myself while field dressing and dragging game out. I am a big fan of scary bear attacks. Learned a lot about bear attacks. I carry an 1851 as back up during gun and muzzleloader season. As it is legal to hunt with. Been saving for a ruger black hawk conversion 357/9mm. I think that bear on that moose was a dinner bell bear.
Ive had a few blacks pace me close out in NC. Always during Turkey season, April.
Teton incident: The cub was snared overnight and the G&F could hear the cub wailing. The sow charged them when they got closer and they had to shoot her. I believe the cub was later put down because both bears had signs of consuming a human.
Also, we spent last week looking for bears in Yellowstone and didn't see any, nor have we seen any grizzlies there this year. But we came home through the south entrance/exit into Grand Teton N.F., took a left a Moran Junction, and saw 2 grizzlies within about 10 miles and another grizzly a few miles after that close to the Brooks Lake turnoff.
You can also credit the soldier's military training that allowed him to focus on the immediate threat and make the shots. Time for fear is after the casualty is over with.
The debate over which handgun to carry for bear defense is good, but it's been done before. The debate I *_really_* want to see is who has the better hat for videos.
I will just carry a 500 because I really like mine and shoot it very well.
I was staying in Alaska, for a few years, they carried 10mm, 44, and 454, and in some cases the 4 inch smith 500!! I only saw glock 20 and glock 40 in 10mm!
Many people dont realize that a 10mm auto with a 180gr. Has double the energy behind it than a 45acp does with a 230gr
My uncle's friend killed a black bear at his front door, point-blank with a .44 magnum. This was in Haines, Ak at 5:30am and we left just 5 minutes before the encounter happened. My uncle's friend carries that .44 on his right hip before he ever steps outside his house and that made me a believer in being prepared. He was alone so if he wasn't prepared, he would have been at a serious disadvantage against a young male black bear also being in his mid 50's.
I'm more scared of that kind of attack 0:11 than a bear.
P320 ss. 17 rounds with extension. It’s accurate and does well long range. Has some recoil but overall 17 rounds and quick reload. Hard to really miss with it.
Ruger 44 mag with 7 1/2 inch barrel, loaded with 310 grain hard cast bullets.
PS
Backpack with it chest holster. Yes it’s heavy but a comforting heft in big bear country.
Buy the 44 magnum. Almost every manufacturer makes a carry model.(Taurus). Use 44 special loads for practice practice practice and more practice. Load heavy cast bullets when you are in the field. Get a speed loader. Practice.
You forgot that a 45 super a 230 grain hard cast at 1150 fps from Springfield XDM or a Glock 21 both using a Bar Stop barrel and a 24 lb.spring. Try it
I carry a s&w 357 6 inch night guard 8 round revolver with hard cast 180 grain.
I have a 629-6 with a 4inch that's what I carry up in Alaska and self defense to
I have a great "handgun" for bear defense. It's called a .500 A-Square. It's a .460 Weatherby magnum necked up to fifty caliber, loaded with a 700 grain hard cast bullet. It's a two handed gun with a shoulder stock. Anybody who would depend on ANY pistol or revolver for bear defense is one whale of a lot braver than I am!
9 Mil Phil should be gun meme by now... as in "Got a bear problem, call 9 Mil Phil for the kill!" 😂
44 mag. With 300 grain hard cast lead, loaded with 21 grains of powder of your choice
I most definitely keep myself ready for "bears" here in America 😎
I pack a Ruger gp100 357 magnum. 180 grain hard cast moving around 1300 fps. I live in Colorado though where my bears are dumpster divers. If I lived up north I would go 44 and up.
Imagine how much better the world would be if people loved and cared for their children as much as bear do. Bear moms are the best
Back when i was near 10 in the adorondacks i stood my ground at a trash dump with many bears. A Small bear came walking towards my family while all were near the ford explorer. The baby bear was getting close enough that they moved into the vechile. I stayed to fight to the death. the baby bear stoped and looked at me. I stayed steady. After my mother asked my father while them and my sister and older brother were in the car to have me get into the car i stayed steady. He asked again. I stayed steady. Me and the bear looked at each other and the bear released tension, maybe to express concern. I turned my back after the bear was done in a conversation of expressions without words. I walked maybe 10-15 feet back to the ford explorer where my familiy was. Others were in a different area i think with video camera's as a torrist stop. One of my uncles was a fed cop and lived in seatle, washington. He talked about bear attacks and that large caliber weapons when a person got between a cub and a adult bear causes bears at times to charge the person and kill them. He said stuff similar to a bullet from a handgun is a difficult kill. I watched this video. A head shot? the head moves up and down from mid body shot and at what speeds? The bullets from some guns might not penetrate the skull. Bullet use. I watched a leanardo decaparo movie with a dead bear on top of him. I think i would put all but maybe two, one shot before the bear was about to make contact. I would manuver to avoid immediate dealth. Maybe a second, and maybe a second of contact to adjust to attempt to get the kill shot before them eat me alive. I watched a little bull fighting to be informed and wrestled in highschool, I think a leg lock on a front leg and neck twist would kill it. Bears, a differing conversation.
My options include Springfield XDM 10mm Elite, or S&W .460 XVR.
Honestly? The .460 will be my hunting gun, and the XDM goes along as defense.
Yep all the big gun are all great 👍 for bears .it all about Placement shot.the first one.with back up shots if needed make your first one Count.
I have never seen a bear while out deer hunting. I have seen a mountain lion while deer hunting. He was slinking away at about 300 yards away. When I got to where I spotted him I found a dead deer carcass. Just skin and bones left of a doe deer. I had n ver seen a mountain lion before. The tracks I saw I thought were a bobcat, not a mountain lion. I literally never went out there without at least a .357. It made me feel better.
My dad and my uncle have a really good friend named Dale who hunts and in 1987 he was up in Montana hunting elk and he leaned against the cabin to take a leak when he turned around and there was a brown bear a foot and a half away from him he couldn't even swing his rifle toward the bear was so close, he reached into his holster pulled out his 44 magnum and sank six shots into the bear and the bear and took off running and the bear ran after him for over 800 before it died. Dale actually shoved the pistol into the Bears gut if it was an auto loading pistol it would have come out of battery amd not fired.
This is the single BEST video regarding backup bear guns I've ever watched, anywhere. It's interesting, well researched, well supported, and complete as anything I've yet seen on the subject. Keep up the good work!!
I'm fairly new to your channel, but I think Joseph is a good addition.
Honest video.
I have a 1911 in .45 cal with some underwood ammo that is 185 gr @1200 fps. That sounds as good as the 10mm. Would it be ok in black bear country?