Same! Looking through my collection, I see I have 15 complete Beethoven symphony cycles…and, after seeing this video, I'm going to have to order _at least_ two more tomorrow.
Same here. My wife tolerates my CD purchases every two weeks or so. BTW just got the Wand cycle; impressively transparent, expressive, balanced, and faithful to the scores without rigidity.My only quibble is the very cheap plastic jewel case that literally came apart as I opened it. Shame on RCA for sub par packaging.
You can just subscribe to a high quality streaming service like tidal or qobuz and listen to all the recordings for a fixed subscription, then buy the ones you like best for your physical collection. That's what I do and the average quality of my purchases has increased as a result.
In the 70’s when I was a teenager, I’d listen to the radio when my parents thought I was sleeping. I’d always listen to the Cleveland Orchestra at Severance Hall. I’d have to keep the volume low but I got to hear so many outstanding performances mostly with Maazel conducting. I don’t know how my mother knew but one Christmas I found the Beethoven cycle with Szell conducting under the Christmas tree. I listened to it over and over. It was my first symphony cycle and I treasure all the memories it gave me over the years. Szell was my hero.
David - I played classical violin for 10 years. I grew up in a household where classical music was played all the time. So, I consider myself to be an enlightened amateur. This video changed how I listen to Beethoven. I now have a few of the cycles. And of all, Gunter Wand and the NDR was my favorite. His symphony plays with passion and urgency. The pace is how I envisioned Beethoven intended. Eroica is beautiful. The pastoral is sublime. The 5th is powerful. But the 9th is just heavenly. The poise and the power of his orchestra is there to be easily seen. Thanks for this wonderful video. And more, for the Wand recommendation
Absolutely top choices Dave, every single one of them. God knows how many complete Beethoven Symphony cycles I have, but no matter, it's always going to be Szell that I come back to over and over again. Once experienced, never forgotten.
This has prompted me to buy Blomstedt (Leipzig), Barenboim and Wand. All of them are joyous and just how I like to hear Beethoven. At the moment Blomstedt has the edge with me because I love the sound. No misfits to be found. Extremely helpful video.
David I was gladly surprised to see that you picked Paul Kletzki's cycle as part of your selection. That's the first I ever listened to, and I've always thought that the orchestra produced a terrific ample and solid sound. Consistent as you say. And the recording quality is also noticeable. I think the 9th in this cycle is just great, majestic, passionate but in a rather controlled manner. I hope you share my views.
i hears Szell's Beethoven when he was preparing them for recording in the late 50's and early 60's.. His ninth is concert remains the greatest I have ever heard' I was suprised that I could get so much from it as a teenager. Once the set was released around 1963 I became my benchmark set and has remained so for 57 years. Other great performances remain his fifth on Audite and on Phillips, and his Eroica in his last concert in Cleveland in May of 1970 (and good luck in trying to find it.)
I love the Szell best of all. But I have become a collector of Beethoven cycles and I have all of this but the Schuricht and Mackerras. (And I just ordered the latter!) Thanks so much.
I'd like to start out with saying that your lessons on how to listen to classical music have been invaluable to me. I've always known what I liked but have a much improved ability to think and talk about why I like it. You're probably the best teacher ever. Aside from all these cycles, which I have now listened to most of them, I did purchase the Konwitschny cycle primarily on the basis that his nickname was Kon"whiskey" and on Victor Carr's review on ClassicsToday where he compares his 2nd and 4th symphonies to the muscle cars of the 1960s. I loved it, the whole cycle reminded me of muscle cars. Now that's critical analysis!
I grew up collecting the Cluytens/Berlin cycle on EMI's bargain "Classics for Pleasure" label, and I still think it's a fine set... among many others. Glad to see the Kletzki getting a mention, as it's another huge favourite of mine.
Most of my pocket money went on Cluytens' cycle too! Curiously I didn't get his 7th until much later (I think because I had Colin Davis' blistering RPO version on EMI). Anyway Cluytens' are consistently fine performances (particularly the Eroica, 4th and Pastoral but emphatically no duds in the others!). Interesting to note this was the first stereo cycle in Berlin (about three years before Karajan's 1963 and I think better!)
Yet another long-time fan of the Cluytens set here. It meets David's criteria of "perfect melding of conductor and ensemble" and consistent excellence throughout the entire cycle. ~ John Drexel
Woow Thank you so much for these repertoire videos, I just found you out. I'm 24 so I haven't listened to many recordings yet but damn that Gunter Wand cycle is amazing!! I always listen to Abbado, Bernstein and Karajan which are great but Wand surprised me so much, beautiful discovery. Thanks again!!
My journey to find the best Beethoven symphonic cycle started with a recording on LPs with Rene Leibowitz conducting the Royal Philharmonic. My grandmother got it through Readers Digest records for my 12th birthday. I was happy but became annoyed as I got into my late teens. Then I found Josef Krips with the London Symphony on Murray Hill Records and I jumped ship on those after two playings. So, now I find Dave and, because of you Dave, I found the cycle I wanted. I ordered after seeing your video and I'm here to say thank you many times. My choice was Gunter Wand and I felt I have found Heaven in music. If my stereo could talk it would say "It's about time, Bill. Now trash those other ones."
I agree 100%! The Magic Wand has the edge. I can hear more detail in the music as compared to all others thanks to the conducting, the orchestra and the recording. Superlative!
I have admired Wand's Bruckner performances . Your videos are showing me he did so much more and so very well! I am paying more attention to the details of his interpretations and marveling. Definitely worth the extra attention . Thank you David.
I am enjoying your videos! I love talk about recordings, and hearing different preferences and opinions. I would like to comment on your repeated "line versus chord" comments, as far as Karajan is concerned. I disagree, in one small way, when you say that Karajan was not a "line guy". He certainly was (overly?) concerned with sonority, and you are right about his orchestral balances. I would only like to point out that I think Karajan is absolutely a 'line guy" when it comes to tempo and pulse. Of all the major conductors of the 20th century, I think Karajan used less rubato and fewer tempo fluctuations than any other. This is what makes his Bruckner so fine, in that it is always in motion towards a goal. In my opinion, his control of the line in the larger repertoire , like Wagner, Bruckner, and Mahler is what distinguishes him greatly. Furtwängler, not a fan to the point he couldn't bring himself to say his name, said "K" was the only conductor of his generation who understood the long line. Rattle also, said, famously, that Karajan gave the Berlin Phil. and "unerring sense of pulse". As a "fan" of Karajan, but by no means an uncritical one, I think his sense of orchestral color (in Debussy, Sibelius, and the 2nd Viennese School, for ex.) as well as his "unerring sense of pulse" in larger works, like Mahler, are what makes him so fascinating a conductor. Thanks again for what you do!
Thanks a lot. You made me enjoy classical music abundantly. I needed someone like you. No one loves it around me . That's why there's no one to talk with. Your recommendations are present for me. Thanks again.
I have listened to almost all of your Beethoven symphony talks (haven't tackled the 9th yet) and have been tickled pink to hear you extol the Kletzki recordings. The Kletzki recordings were the first Beethoven symphony LPs I ever bought when I was a teenager back in the 70s. But here's the funny thing: I became aware of the Kletzki LPs only because a friend got me a subscription to the MHS (Musical Heritage Society) which was an inexpensive way to buy LPs. Their great claim to fame, however, was Baroque and so I assumed that anything outside of Baroque in their catalogue was incidental, maybe even a throwaway to what they really wanted to sell. But somehow they catalogued all of the Kletzki Beethoven symphonies and I bought them and enjoyed them. But NEVER could I have guessed what great recordings I was getting. Thanks as always for your talks. Wesley.
I’m really enjoying listing to these excellent videos. I already own several versions of the symphony cycles and have now added the Gunter Wand and am loving it. I can understand why it is top choice . Keep up the good work Dave !
Three budget cycles that I have always enjoyed and had when I was an impecunious student--so there's a bit of sentimentality involved--are Krips with the LSO, Kempe with Munich and Cluytens with Berlin.
Excellent overview, Dave: thank you. I have all of the cycles you recommend (plus about 100 more!) and have no argument with your choices. I'm especially fond of Jochum's LSO traversal and agree that it is the finest of the three, capped with an especially fine Ninth (often the bete noir of otherwise great Beethoven cycles). You've also led me back to Barenboim's Staatskapelle Berlin set which I've unfairly neglected since buying it from new. Barenboim is so much more than the Furtwaengler disciple his critics label him as. As for Karajan, I agree that his 1977 set is his most consistent, with my favourite modern recording of the Ninth at its close.
Hi Dave, thanks for the video and for the constant stream of content. I recently listened to Wand's 9, Schuricht's 1, and Jochum's 1 and could hardly believe my ears--they sounded so great. The Jochum 4B's box is on the way for me and I'm looking forward to it. Skrowaczewski taught me Bruckner and I'm excited to make Jochum Dresden my second cycle.
I just find and bought the Liverpool Mackerras. Thank you so much. I like it so much and I paid almost nothing for it. (I have Szell, Wand, Karajan, Bohm , Bernstein, Jochum, Barenboim, von Dohnanyi, MUnch, Klemperer etc etc ) Mackerras is one of my greatest discoveries of a life time in Beethoven.
Konwitschny/Gewandhaus cycle is my however-set. I feel happy every time I listened to them. The happy feeling is a bit like listening to Abravanel/Uta recordings (not beethoven). Their playing is the mixture of orchestra's spontaneity and conductor's control. The players are all masters. I like woodwinds section. Flute is fine. Are they just carrying on the tradition? Routine work? No, they know what they are doing. Everything is meaningful and tuneful. That's how I feel about them.
Just listening through the Konwitschny set. The balance within the orchestra seems to me ideal, the woodwinds very beautiful and characterful, but in tune, unlike the Schuricht, which I love too. Time and again the Leipzigers phrasing and relatively vibrato-free playing really catches my attention. The pacing is never frenetic, elegant, but so well structured. I love Konwitschny's Wagner but had no idea he would be so elegant and light-footed as he is in the early symphonies here. A real find and a snip on the 10 CD set which also has the Schumann symphonies and more. The Gewandhaus orchestra was fabulous, up there with the Dresden Staatskapelle surely
I've decided the Gunter Wand NDR one is my base. I really resonate with it. Going through it by numbers. Once I get to know the symphonies I'll try others.
I bought this set recently, and it came in the form of a plastic jewel case which has been so difficult to handle. Did yours come in the cardboard box? I hate it so much I would consider buying another set in the cardboard box.🥴
Hi Dave - I have just recently discovered your videos and I must say am greatly enjoying them. I discovered the Gunter Wand recording(s) years ago while driving home and Beethoven's 5th was coming on air. So of course, I would at least listen to the 1st movement. Well, I kept on driving and driving. When I did get home, I immediately called the station - at the time we still had 24-hour classical music and usually the announcer answered the phone. I couldn't stop praising the recording actually describing it "like hearing it again for the first time." I couldn't think of a better way to say it. I first heard this symphony as a child on 78s with Toscanini & NBC, so I have heard a few performances. Anyhow, the Wand set is just wonderful. Unfortunately, I fell for the EMI hype when Sir Simon did a cycle with Vienna - I was SO disappointed. When I get a new set I start with the 4th or the 8th - I consider them lost gems stuck in between better-known pieces. I was appalled, and actually not even sure if I ever finished listening to this particular cycle. I'm sorry for going on and on - thanks for your videos!
You gave me a great start. Haven't made my way through them all. It will take time especially since Szell, Kletzki and Blomstedt have started rotating. I already feel at home. I'll have to add a Bernstein stop eventually.
Thanks for recommending the Kletzki cycle! I took the plunge and immediately loved the distinctive character of the brass and woodwinds of the Czech Philharmonic. Their balance against the strings allows individual musical lines come through in a way that you don't always hear in recordings, and it makes you appreciate Beethoven's orchestration more fully. The strings are fine, it's just that they are equal partners and don't smother everything else. This is a very convincing approach to Beethoven, and it still sounds fresh and lively. The sound engineering is better than I expected, too. I will be coming back to this set regularly. What a find!
Great video. Thanks! I was surprised that there was no mention of Klemperer and the Philharmonia. He has something fairly unique to say; and his 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th make very strong claims.
Yes, but I made the rather artificial distinction of insisting on a single box of the nine symphonies--some of his best versions were the monos that were not in the box (although they were in the Edition). Just gives me a reason to do a separate video, right? It's not as if this was our one and only shot.
My top favourite is also Wand! Extraordinary under all points of view. Thanks for giving more space and recognition than it usually has! I should also recommend the live recordings, simply to enjoy how beautiful Wand's work sounds under all circumstances.
I had seen this video a couple of days ago.. and then what to my wondering eyes should appear?? The Charles Mackerras set, sealed... for a Dollar!! Good grief! And let me say this, what I've listened to thus far, is wonderful. #4 and #9. So, thank you sir for opening my eyes and ears, to the possibilities.
Your recommendation for the Kletzki/Czech PO alone was worth the price of admission. The Eight is my favorite Beethoven symphony, and I am, quite frankly, embarrassed that I had not come across this performance earlier, and, God, do I love it! They do everything right as they perfectly highlight the Haydnesque humor throughout, which Beethoven takes to the next level whenever he's not being stubborn and, therefore, embraces his inner Haydn. The Fourth is my second favorite, and I intend to listen to Eugen Jochum’s (who I typically would go to for Bruckner’s choral works) performance tomorrow morning when my fiancé is at the dentist (she hates Beethoven because of how she was treated in graduate school by one of her professors who was Beethoven “scholar.”). I have the Jarvi cycle and very much enjoy his First and Fourth. I read a review somewhere (I no longer remember where) a critic who described his cycle as riding a motorcycle through Beethoven’s symphony cycle. I do not entirely agree with this assessment, but his cycle is certainly a mixed bag. I struggle falling in love with Beethoven’s Third, Sixth, and Ninth. The Third’s finale always seems to disappoint after what precedes it; the Sixth needs the second movement to be removed to make it a two parter, like Mahler Eight (something which Schubert’s Trout quintet would benefit from as well); and the Ninth’s finale comes across to me as misguided humor - I think Raff does a better job in his Fourth symphony when he parodies Beethoven). I will watch your other videos on these works to see if you recommend performances that will sway me on these wildly popular symphonies with which I have heretofore failed to connect. Thank you, and have a happy New Year!
In going through a period of re listening to the beethoven symphony cycle. I currently have chosen to keep a mix of older and more modern sounding recordings . The cycles I am listening to now are the toscanini nbc cycle, Walter 2nd cycle, then the shell and steinberg cycles, karajan's third cycle 1970s, Bernstein's 1st cycle, Mutis Philly cycle, Barenboims first cycle, Tilton thomas" eco cycle, chailly's Leipzig cycle and finally paavo Jarvi's Bremen cycle and lastly cluytens bpo cycle. A wide range of musicianship and granted doesn't match all the recommendations but I enjoy it. 😊
1963 Karajan/Berlin Phil on DG was the first classical music set that I ever had. So I'm partial to it and I definitely prefer it over 1977 cycle. I still enjoy listening to 3rd and then 5-8 from this set, they're great recordings, even after I heard some others. But the 1st CD with symphonies 1 and 2? They sound indifferently played to me. There are also more interesting performances of the 4th and the 9th. I listened to this cycle many times and I rate highly 5 out of 9 symphonies, so it withstood the competition, just not everything is great in it.
So enjoyable, David, and I will seek out Blomstedt. I appreciated your rules, so you must have felt that Walter fails somewhere I don't. As you would say, I think he plays them like they matter
This cycle fury has led me to discover the Steinberg/Pittsburgh cycle on Deutsche Grammophon. It's really a sleeper! They are incisive and on stereo too. It has a red-hot 3rd, 4th and 7th. Though it also has that odd Mahler arrangement for the 9th. Sending love from Singapore, Dave. 😘
Dear Dave, on the many occasions I watch your YT-channel, I always mostly enjoy videos that include some sort of comparison (come to think of it, they almost all do). I frequently watch Best/Worst videos and last autumn I was watching this one. Now, I've been collecting for many years, but this particular video made me ask the question: How many cycles have been issued? (the most obvious answer would be: Far to many. However, I've done some research and while doing so I've been using the following parameters: a) A cycle must be on CDs (no LPs, DVDs, Blue-Rays, downloads etc.). b) I’m preferably interested in publicly issued (authorized) cycles. However, I do have my idiosyncrasies and I have, therefore, listed a few unauthorized cycles (e.g. Jochum, Klemperer, Munch, Scherchen, Tennstedt and Toscanini). c) A cycle must be conducted by one conductor. d) A cycle may include symphonies performed by different orchestras. e) A cycle might have been issued (or re-issued) by different labels. Using these parameters, I have reached the grand total of 177 cycles, many of which are out of print. Would that number seem close to the mark to you? Anyway, my findings are here: facebook.com/share/GQkmWUt6LndkJUFi/
I'm glad Mr. Hurwitz mentioned the Schuricht Beethoven's with the Paris Conservatory Orchestra. A bit unsung - but to me fabulously well played and the French orchestra is an interesting admixture of "new" and "original instrument" approaches. And Schuricht is a fascinating conductor!
Hi Dave. Recently discovered your reviews and I’m so grateful to hear your generous and insightful comments. I was expecting the moment you mention Gardiner’s cycle, but was left high a dry 😂. Grew up listening to this version of the 9. My ear naturally filters Beethoven’s symphonies based on this version which I consider so lively and powerful. Based on your comments the closest version to Gardiner’s would be Mackerras using original period instrumentation; was wondering your thoughts about it.
I find Gardiner relatively dry and faceless. Mackerras is much, much better. You can see some reviews at ClassicsToday.com. I loved Gardiner when it came out, but it just hasn't worn well over time, but that's me.
My father loved the Klemperer set with the Philharmonia orchestra...he loved the slow, heavy tempo..."This is how Beethoven should be played" he said...lol
Klemp's Beethoven are real keepers. Even though I usually find the finales of his 5th and 7th maddenly slow, there is something strangely right about them when I consider how he renders both symphonies as a whole. What surprises me about Klemp is how much pop and verve the 1st 2nd and 4th have for a conductor who was supposedly so stodgy--they're among my favorites.
@@christophersmith6841 he's also one of the very few conductors that play the full complement of repeats in the ninth, scherzo. Making it over 16 minutes in length..
The Haitink/Concertgebouw from the '80s is one I often default to. No one every mentions it so I feel a little lonely but the performances are first-rate, particularly the underrated 2nd.
hi Iggy Reilly I have started to listen to Haitink's Concertgebouw cycle and love it , the recording is so clear and it is romantic and so right in its feeling , I do prefer the music on the slower side and don't respond to the super fast modern way. I also like a full sonorous orchestra , balanced with the woodwinds and brass of equal value in the mix. I haven't heard his latest cycle with the LSO . but this one really reveals the music to me. I find that the musical language is so clear. I like the older conductors that have really considered the playing of this greatest of music . all the best from at least one other person who has found Haitink my go to cycle. I still love Klemperer , Szell, Wand , Fricsay , Tennstedt .
I have the Blomstedt with Dresden in my collection that I found for three pounds and recently picked up a David Zinman cycle on Arte Nova. Any thoughts on his version?
As a classical music neophyte, I appreciate these videos and look forward to digging into some of these boxed sets in the future, especially Kletzki and Wand. But for my first Beethoven symphony cycle purchase I’ve gone with William Steinberg. Just based on TH-cam samples, his recordings sing like Walter Bruno’s to me but recorded with more clarity. The symphonies were recorded using 35mm film in the 1950s/60s and the sound is amazing for the time!
Dear David, thank you very much for these videos. As a long time Beethoven fan, my first introduction to his symphonies were the recordings of Anton Nanut (Pity I could not find the entire cycle, I only listened to symphonies 1 to 4, 6 and 8). Then I discovered the cycles of Klemperer and Barenboim (the slowish tempos worked out for some symphonies only). Now, I checked out both the Blomstedt cycles and I prefer the first one (Staatskapelle Dresden) as the tempos are more to my liking and a bit slower than the recent one (the eight symphony finale, the ode to joy instrumental version before the voices step in, the first movement of the pastoral symphony are better in the first cycle. Perhaps as I listen more and more to the second cycle, my opinion might change). Without your videos, I would not have discovered this wonderful cycle. Thanks again.PS: Need to keep an eye on my bank balance:).
Great discussion! I could never come up with a whole set that satisfied me. I have Vanska’s and think they are all excellent with the possible exception of the 9th. Also have Zinman’s which was a revelation when it came out-speed demon that he is! Otherwise, I’ll choose Gardiner in 3, Kleiber in 5 (along with Wand and Szell/Concertgebouw) and 7, Wand in 6, and Karajan 1963 in 9 (though I agree his 1977 is also great except for his woeful lack of repeats in the scherzo-when it was issued separately). Io
I have actually grown rather fond of Vanska`s 9th. It is a very classical view of the work. It isn't my go to, but I do like to break it out from time to time.
I really appreciate Jochum's Concertgebouw cycle, which you talk about in your video on the Philips recordings. I'm excited about comparing it with this one (London), which I've recently acquired. Many thanks.
Nine knockout boxes indeed. I confess that I've been moving the majority of my collection to Spotify playlists, but you may have convinced me to keep my Blomstedt symphonies (and my CD player!) in good shape
I like what I heard you say about the conductor and ensemble working together. I think many times the abilities of the ensemble are overlooked or downplayed and the conductor’s influence vastly overrated. I call it conductor worship. Your take on that subject is spot on.
I realized today, no Bruno Walter. His Columbia Symphony cycle is great. The new remastering is very good and the rehearsal disc is worth the price of admission. How about a video on the big Columbia box?
Great! I've always been curious about Paul Kletzki's Beethoven...I've heard Abbado's cycle, Karajan's cycle (also with Philharmonia in the '50s), Cluytens with Berliner...this latter is very intriguing because Cluytens had often relaxed tempos in certain symphonies (7th and 9th for example) with an orchestra that was like a war jaggernaut ready to shot :D "Esprit" meets "Geist"...or not?! :)
I agree about the Cluytens set entirely! By the way, Kletzki's Czech Beethoven cycle is great for the very reasons that David Hurwitz mentions: the orchestra has a unique and distinctive sound that is very appealing; Kletzki doesn't impose a highly personal interpretation on the music but guides the musicians in giving their best and producing a natural-sounding result that just seems "right" in every respect. ~ John Drexel
A lot of people have mentioned the Cluytens/Berlin cycle. So I'll just add my vote to that. Also, if historic performances are to be considered, the Toscanini 1939 cycle (live) with the NBC as realized by Andrew Rose at Pristine audio is absolutely electric. Not for the faint at heart.
Wow. I almost never agree with critics but liked the recommendations right down the line. Maybe I'm crazy, but I also admire the old Joseph Krips set. It sounds better than ever remastered and marketed in a weird little, tin cookie box.
@@christophersmith6841 I agree. I find myself listening to his seventh the most. It counterbalances my other favorite from the era, Bruno Walter with his Columbia Symphony, quite nicely. I love the way Krips allows his players some expressiveness. Very Viennese, to my ears. Regrettably, the strings aren't quite as fleet as they should be, but overall I think it is a very satisfying and, as you point out, un-eccentric traversal.
Thank you so much for your videos Mr. Hurwitz! I would be very interested to know what you think of Pablo Casals' recordings with the Marlboro Festival Orchestra. They were a revelation for me when I first heard them many years ago. Especially the 7th is unique I think!
David, these reviews are golden. I’m finding that I’m spending hours listening to you, listening to your performance recommendations, and inevitably, purchasing more music. I just got the Wand set as I run out of storage space (I like your shelves) Have you heard Wand’s 4 Letzte Lieder with Martina Arroyo? Gorgeous!
Finally found the Wand/NDR cycle. Passionate sincerity, excellent sonics and engineering, and a well-rehearsed, full-sounding orchestra. A very fine recommendation to complement the Mackerras/SCO set, joyous performances that get to me. Of course there are so many treasurable performances of individual symphonies by Furtwängler, Walter, Szell, Klemperer, Schuricht, Kleiber, Blomstedt, Bernstein, and Honeck, among others. Vänskä's set disappointed me, analytical but lacks the sweeping or joyous "carried-away" quality I expect in these works.
just because I didn´t hear about this cycle on here yet: I recently stumbled across Colin Davis` Beethoven with the Staatskapelle Dresden, and I must say: I´m pretty amazed by it.
Never payed much attention to the Schuricht, but on your enthusiastic recommendation I’m currently sampling his set. Wow! I’m hearing details I never even thought existed. Such distinctive phrasing. A shame it wasn’t given more modern sound. Thanks for the tipoff.
Hi Dave - love your videos. I just found and purchased the Otto Klemperer set on EMI, not Warner - they are lovely. When I get a (new) complete cycle, I start with either the 4th or 8th symphonies - enjoy them all but these 2 gems are often "lost", primarily the 4th! What wonderful conducting. Now for Gunter Wand - I heard his reading of the 5th several years ago on air - it was like hearing it again for the first time. And what a set, a master conducting the works of a master. I don't believe you mentioned the Sir Simon set on EMI/Warner - I bought it upon its release believing the EMI hype. Perhaps the WORST set ever. I don't think I listened to the entire set. I mention this because you did bring up his Mahler cycle - thanks, I really am enjoying all of your videos
Another cycle I think is great is the Riccard Muti one from 1998. A little less in your face compared to Karajan's 1963 collection (which is still great but a harder feel). Muti gives, I believe, a little of the Italian feel to his renditions.
I don't know where to add a general comment, Dave, but I really wish you would address one of the major questions I have about modern (formerly called avant garde) classical music: Why do modern composers abhor melody? If you go to a concert or opera composed in the last 20 years or so and come out humming even a fragment of melody, the composer has failed. Even Puccini had the sense to include "O Mio Babbino Caro" in "Gianni Schicchi." Operas are now 99% concerned with the text, with the musical score providing a supposedly supportive or psychological wall of sound that sounds completely arbitrary to me. You never get the feeling that every note is essential as you do with Mozart. I call it noodling, placing one note or chord or arpeggio after another as if by chance. Am I right or am I right?
Thank you for a thoughtful review. Very dangerous topic! You’re recommendations hit 9 of my favorite cycles. I was astounded. Jochum/LSO has long been a favorite. I am also a fan of his Amsterdam cycle which is one of the most beautiful cycles ever recorded. Agree as well that the 70’s Karajan set is his best...the 9th is stunning. Barenboim: wonderful. Schuricht...totally unique cycle that I couldn’t live without. As an aside, I also like the DG (partial) cycle with Markevitch and the Orchestre Lamoureux. Mackerras conducts a very exciting cycle...as is the Hyperion cycle. I have both Blomstedts. The playing of the Gewandhaus pushes this cycle into my top 10. Your only recommendation that I didn’t know was the Kletzki. I intend to remedy that as soon as possible. Szell...of course! As for Gunther Wand, I think his Beethoven and Brahms cycles are tops...and often overlooked!
Thank you for this Review. My Favorite is the Blomstedt Cycle and i also like the Gardiner Cycle. I never thought about Wand an Ludwig Van.....Wand is allways mentioned with Bruckner, i keep it in mind. What do you Think about TACET's Beethoven Symphonies with the Polish Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra under Wojciech Rajski. I found it Yesterday in a Munich Record-Store on Vinyl.
Given your positive reviews on every single symphony of Vanska's cycle with the Minnesota Orchestra, I expected that to be near the top here. I will need go check some of these out!
@@DavesClassicalGuide granted! Love your stuff man, I've been getting really into classical the past few months (mahler's ninth hooked me) and your recommendations have been really helpful for me to know where to look when exploring new works and recordings. Thank you!
Anybody, is the cycle by Barenboim with the red case cover the same as the cycle with Barenboim wearing a hat and showing half his face. It has a few overtures added but I was just wondering if the symphonies were a remaster or different.
I love Blomstedt's Dresden recording of Beethoven's 2nd. Thank you for the recommendation. I also found a glorious Blomstedt and Dresden recording of Mozart''s 39th Symphony. I usually find interpretations of the 39th problematic--but NOT this.
It's interesting how things have changed in S.F. After some of the players spread the rumor that Blomstedt didn't know what he was doing and managed to get rid of him in the early '90s (truth is, he pushed them too much in rehearsal for their union asses), he's now welcomed back any time with open arms, by both the audience and players alike. I think you can draw further conclusions from that.
Hi dave I love your reviews an recommendations Do you know the Beethoven Cyrcles by Otmar Suitner - Staatskapelle Berlin from 1988 - DENON Label? For me it is the best combination of interpretation and Sound quality. What do you think about if you have the opportunity to listen to it?
@@DavesClassicalGuide Got it. Actually PoetryOnPlastic have great reviews and another guy, Analog Planet, had a great list. Two that peaked my interested from him, was a Readers Digest Cycle, and one with Simon Rattle conducting, but is totally unaffordable for me.
The Wand set is my favorite - but I also enjoy Harnocourt with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe and Andre Cluytens with the Berlin Philharmonic sets from time to time
Don't worry about blow back from your choices... we come to you for your insight! If you want to talk about Furtwangler separately maybe a best of Furtwangler/Beethoven video. You could do that for any other picks that aren't consistent as a set. Beethoven ONE-OFFs maybe. Cheers David!
Dear Dave. Having watched this classic video many times and having explored several cycles since, I’d say that the Chailly and Vanska cycles are the modern cycles to hear. In both I’d say the ninth is more effective than P Jarvi’s, simply because his forces are so reduced. When you reviewed these two cycles they both received 10/10 ratings on ClassicsToday. Having read my share of criticism, I know that opinions may be modified with the passing of time. Things happen. What I would be very curious to know is, since then, would you still rate these as highly? Thanks so much.
I opted for the Barenboim set on your recommendation, and the performances are very fine indeed. Another thing in its favor is the generous booklet. There are excellent, sizable essays about each of the symphonies and detailed histories of the Staatskapelle Berlin and Daniel Barenboim. Quality of printing and binding is first-rate.
It is with trepidation I venture forth. Please, I fully respect the ground rules...b-b-but...Zinman? The reasons I ask are: Number 1 spot on your Piano Concerto cycle; Top spot for the Triple Concerto; Honourable mention for Missa Solemnis... I just wondered where he falls short in his Symphony cycle.
"Chord" vs. "Line". One of things that I never understood is conductors who bury voicings and parts. It makes no sense to me. Obviously you have to have balance and a blending, I'm not saying that's not important. But to me, what is the point of a composer writing for an instrument if you can't hear it? In other words, for me, to have a part that you can't hear is no different than not having the part in the score.
I wish I hadn't discovered these videos. They're costing me a fortune.
So sorry!
@@DavesClassicalGuide But it has been great to hear recordings I've had on the shelf for years getting the thumbs up. Time to dust them off.
Same! Looking through my collection, I see I have 15 complete Beethoven symphony cycles…and, after seeing this video, I'm going to have to order _at least_ two more tomorrow.
Same here. My wife tolerates my CD purchases every two weeks or so. BTW just got the Wand cycle; impressively transparent, expressive, balanced, and faithful to the scores without rigidity.My only quibble is the very cheap plastic jewel case that literally came apart as I opened it. Shame on RCA for sub par packaging.
You can just subscribe to a high quality streaming service like tidal or qobuz and listen to all the recordings for a fixed subscription, then buy the ones you like best for your physical collection. That's what I do and the average quality of my purchases has increased as a result.
In the 70’s when I was a teenager, I’d listen to the radio when my parents thought I was sleeping. I’d always listen to the Cleveland Orchestra at Severance Hall. I’d have to keep the volume low but I got to hear so many outstanding performances mostly with Maazel conducting. I don’t know how my mother knew but one Christmas I found the Beethoven cycle with Szell conducting under the Christmas tree. I listened to it over and over. It was my first symphony cycle and I treasure all the memories it gave me over the years. Szell was my hero.
David - I played classical violin for 10 years. I grew up in a household where classical music was played all the time. So, I consider myself to be an enlightened amateur.
This video changed how I listen to Beethoven. I now have a few of the cycles. And of all, Gunter Wand and the NDR was my favorite. His symphony plays with passion and urgency. The pace is how I envisioned Beethoven intended.
Eroica is beautiful. The pastoral is sublime. The 5th is powerful. But the 9th is just heavenly. The poise and the power of his orchestra is there to be easily seen.
Thanks for this wonderful video. And more, for the Wand recommendation
You're very welcome!
Dave, you are the best thing on TH-cam. Thank you!!!
You are very welcome!
Absolutely top choices Dave, every single one of them. God knows how many complete Beethoven Symphony cycles I have, but no matter, it's always going to be Szell that I come back to over and over again. Once experienced, never forgotten.
This has prompted me to buy Blomstedt (Leipzig), Barenboim and Wand. All of them are joyous and just how I like to hear Beethoven. At the moment Blomstedt has the edge with me because I love the sound. No misfits to be found. Extremely helpful video.
David I was gladly surprised to see that you picked Paul Kletzki's cycle as part of your selection. That's the first I ever listened to, and I've always thought that the orchestra produced a terrific ample and solid sound. Consistent as you say. And the recording quality is also noticeable. I think the 9th in this cycle is just great, majestic, passionate but in a rather controlled manner. I hope you share my views.
i hears Szell's Beethoven when he was preparing them for recording in the late 50's and early 60's.. His ninth is concert remains the greatest I have ever heard' I was suprised that I could get so much from it as a teenager. Once the set was released around 1963 I became my benchmark set and has remained so for 57 years. Other great performances remain his fifth on Audite and on Phillips, and his Eroica in his last concert in Cleveland in May of 1970 (and good luck in trying to find it.)
Thanks for referencing the Szell cycle. Among my favorites.
I love the Szell best of all. But I have become a collector of Beethoven cycles and I have all of this but the Schuricht and Mackerras. (And I just ordered the latter!) Thanks so much.
I'd like to start out with saying that your lessons on how to listen to classical music have been invaluable to me. I've always known what I liked but have a much improved ability to think and talk about why I like it. You're probably the best teacher ever. Aside from all these cycles, which I have now listened to most of them, I did purchase the Konwitschny cycle primarily on the basis that his nickname was Kon"whiskey" and on Victor Carr's review on ClassicsToday where he compares his 2nd and 4th symphonies to the muscle cars of the 1960s. I loved it, the whole cycle reminded me of muscle cars. Now that's critical analysis!
Thanks. Victor is terrific!
Enjoying the Paul Kletzki version of No.3. Very fresh and immediate sounding to my ears.
I grew up collecting the Cluytens/Berlin cycle on EMI's bargain "Classics for Pleasure" label, and I still think it's a fine set... among many others. Glad to see the Kletzki getting a mention, as it's another huge favourite of mine.
Most of my pocket money went on Cluytens' cycle too! Curiously I didn't get his 7th until much later (I think because I had Colin Davis' blistering RPO version on EMI). Anyway Cluytens' are consistently fine performances (particularly the Eroica, 4th and Pastoral but emphatically no duds in the others!). Interesting to note this was the first stereo cycle in Berlin (about three years before Karajan's 1963 and I think better!)
@@allthisuselessbeauty-kr7 Definitely better than HvK's 1963 to my ears, both in terms of performance and recording.
Yet another long-time fan of the Cluytens set here. It meets David's criteria of "perfect melding of conductor and ensemble" and consistent excellence throughout the entire cycle. ~ John Drexel
Cluytens' Pastoral was the first one I ever heard and it's still my favorite version. The only weak one in the set to my ears is the 8th.
Woow Thank you so much for these repertoire videos, I just found you out. I'm 24 so I haven't listened to many recordings yet but damn that Gunter Wand cycle is amazing!! I always listen to Abbado, Bernstein and Karajan which are great but Wand surprised me so much, beautiful discovery. Thanks again!!
You are very welcome. Enjoy!
My journey to find the best Beethoven symphonic cycle started with a recording on LPs with Rene Leibowitz conducting the Royal Philharmonic. My grandmother got it through Readers Digest records for my 12th birthday. I was happy but became annoyed as I got into my late teens. Then I found Josef Krips with the London Symphony on Murray Hill Records and I jumped ship on those after two playings. So, now I find Dave and, because of you Dave, I found the cycle I wanted. I ordered after seeing your video and I'm here to say thank you many times. My choice was Gunter Wand and I felt I have found Heaven in music. If my stereo could talk it would say "It's about time, Bill. Now trash those other ones."
My favourite cycle is the 1963 Karjan set with the Berliner Philharmoniker.
I agree 100%! The Magic Wand has the edge. I can hear more detail in the music as compared to all others thanks to the conducting, the orchestra and the recording. Superlative!
Check out the Szell/CO B cycle. The musical detail thanks to the magnificent sound engineering is second to none.
I reunited a complete Beethoven Symphonies cycle from different labels conducted by Charles Munch. Awesome. Period.
I have admired Wand's Bruckner performances . Your videos are showing me he did so much more and so very well! I am paying more attention to the details of his interpretations and marveling. Definitely worth the extra attention . Thank you David.
I am enjoying your videos! I love talk about recordings, and hearing different preferences and opinions. I would like to comment on your repeated "line versus chord" comments, as far as Karajan is concerned. I disagree, in one small way, when you say that Karajan was not a "line guy". He certainly was (overly?) concerned with sonority, and you are right about his orchestral balances. I would only like to point out that I think Karajan is absolutely a 'line guy" when it comes to tempo and pulse. Of all the major conductors of the 20th century, I think Karajan used less rubato and fewer tempo fluctuations than any other. This is what makes his Bruckner so fine, in that it is always in motion towards a goal. In my opinion, his control of the line in the larger repertoire , like Wagner, Bruckner, and Mahler is what distinguishes him greatly. Furtwängler, not a fan to the point he couldn't bring himself to say his name, said "K" was the only conductor of his generation who understood the long line. Rattle also, said, famously, that Karajan gave the Berlin Phil. and "unerring sense of pulse". As a "fan" of Karajan, but by no means an uncritical one, I think his sense of orchestral color (in Debussy, Sibelius, and the 2nd Viennese School, for ex.) as well as his "unerring sense of pulse" in larger works, like Mahler, are what makes him so fascinating a conductor. Thanks again for what you do!
Very interesting and well-said! Thank you.
Thanks!
Thank you very much! I'm truly touched.
@@DavesClassicalGuide It's the least I can do considering how much your channel has massively expanded my collection. Keep up the fantastic work Dave.
Loved your insight on vertical sonority and the difference between a chord and line approach. Gives my ear something to chew on in future listenings.
Thanks a lot.
You made me enjoy classical music abundantly.
I needed someone like you.
No one loves it around me .
That's why there's no one to talk with.
Your recommendations are present for me.
Thanks again.
Thanks for listening!
I have listened to almost all of your Beethoven symphony talks (haven't tackled the 9th yet) and have been tickled pink to hear you extol the Kletzki recordings. The Kletzki recordings were the first Beethoven symphony LPs I ever bought when I was a teenager back in the 70s. But here's the funny thing: I became aware of the Kletzki LPs only because a friend got me a subscription to the MHS (Musical Heritage Society) which was an inexpensive way to buy LPs. Their great claim to fame, however, was Baroque and so I assumed that anything outside of Baroque in their catalogue was incidental, maybe even a throwaway to what they really wanted to sell. But somehow they catalogued all of the Kletzki Beethoven symphonies and I bought them and enjoyed them. But NEVER could I have guessed what great recordings I was getting. Thanks as always for your talks. Wesley.
Always nice to hear ‘it’s not just me’! I must check them out.
I’m really enjoying listing to these excellent videos. I already own several versions of the symphony cycles and have now added the Gunter Wand and am loving it. I can understand why it is top choice . Keep up the good work Dave !
Three budget cycles that I have always enjoyed and had when I was an impecunious student--so there's a bit of sentimentality involved--are Krips with the LSO, Kempe with Munich and Cluytens with Berlin.
Excellent overview, Dave: thank you. I have all of the cycles you recommend (plus about 100 more!) and have no argument with your choices. I'm especially fond of Jochum's LSO traversal and agree that it is the finest of the three, capped with an especially fine Ninth (often the bete noir of otherwise great Beethoven cycles). You've also led me back to Barenboim's Staatskapelle Berlin set which I've unfairly neglected since buying it from new. Barenboim is so much more than the Furtwaengler disciple his critics label him as. As for Karajan, I agree that his 1977 set is his most consistent, with my favourite modern recording of the Ninth at its close.
I pickup the Wand’s cycle . . . OMG . . . The most musical and perfect symphonies performed! You are absolutely right about it. Best money invested. 😊
You’ve got a nice channel, sir. I like your openness with you opinions.
Hi Dave, thanks for the video and for the constant stream of content. I recently listened to Wand's 9, Schuricht's 1, and Jochum's 1 and could hardly believe my ears--they sounded so great. The Jochum 4B's box is on the way for me and I'm looking forward to it. Skrowaczewski taught me Bruckner and I'm excited to make Jochum Dresden my second cycle.
I just find and bought the Liverpool Mackerras. Thank you so much. I like it so much and I paid almost nothing for it. (I have Szell, Wand, Karajan, Bohm , Bernstein, Jochum, Barenboim, von Dohnanyi, MUnch, Klemperer etc etc ) Mackerras is one of my greatest discoveries of a life time in Beethoven.
Glad you enjoy it!
Good News! Schmidt-Isserstedt Beethoven Symphonies Decca Cycle box to be released in September
Konwitschny/Gewandhaus cycle is my however-set. I feel happy every time I listened to them. The happy feeling is a bit like listening to Abravanel/Uta recordings (not beethoven). Their playing is the mixture of orchestra's spontaneity and conductor's control. The players are all masters. I like woodwinds section. Flute is fine. Are they just carrying on the tradition? Routine work? No, they know what they are doing. Everything is meaningful and tuneful. That's how I feel about them.
Fair enough. I understand what you mean.
Just listening through the Konwitschny set. The balance within the orchestra seems to me ideal, the woodwinds very beautiful and characterful, but in tune, unlike the Schuricht, which I love too. Time and again the Leipzigers phrasing and relatively vibrato-free playing really catches my attention. The pacing is never frenetic, elegant, but so well structured. I love Konwitschny's Wagner but had no idea he would be so elegant and light-footed as he is in the early symphonies here. A real find and a snip on the 10 CD set which also has the Schumann symphonies and more. The Gewandhaus orchestra was fabulous, up there with the Dresden Staatskapelle surely
Very interesting, love some of these sets, I grew up with Leibowitz and the Royal Philharmonic
This was a good set, I have it myself. A readers Digest/RCA issue. It has the best Ninth of all, in my opinion.
I've decided the Gunter Wand NDR one is my base. I really resonate with it. Going through it by numbers. Once I get to know the symphonies I'll try others.
I bought this set recently, and it came in the form of a plastic jewel case which has been so difficult to handle. Did yours come in the cardboard box? I hate it so much I would consider buying another set in the cardboard box.🥴
@@barrysaines254I just stream it
Hi Dave - I have just recently discovered your videos and I must say am greatly enjoying them. I discovered the Gunter Wand recording(s) years ago while driving home and Beethoven's 5th was coming on air. So of course, I would at least listen to the 1st movement. Well, I kept on driving and driving. When I did get home, I immediately called the station - at the time we still had 24-hour classical music and usually the announcer answered the phone. I couldn't stop praising the recording actually describing it "like hearing it again for the first time." I couldn't think of a better way to say it. I first heard this symphony as a child on 78s with Toscanini & NBC, so I have heard a few performances. Anyhow, the Wand set is just wonderful. Unfortunately, I fell for the EMI hype when Sir Simon did a cycle with Vienna - I was SO disappointed. When I get a new set I start with the 4th or the 8th - I consider them lost gems stuck in between better-known pieces. I was appalled, and actually not even sure if I ever finished listening to this particular cycle. I'm sorry for going on and on - thanks for your videos!
Awesome review. Szell rocks in that rep. Cloyd Duff playing
timpani. Best intonation ever!
Oh yeah!
@@DavesClassicalGuide You are spot on with Szell and in fact, all the other recommended cycles David.
You gave me a great start. Haven't made my way through them all. It will take time especially since Szell, Kletzki and Blomstedt have started rotating. I already feel at home. I'll have to add a Bernstein stop eventually.
Thanks for recommending the Kletzki cycle! I took the plunge and immediately loved the distinctive character of the brass and woodwinds of the Czech Philharmonic. Their balance against the strings allows individual musical lines come through in a way that you don't always hear in recordings, and it makes you appreciate Beethoven's orchestration more fully. The strings are fine, it's just that they are equal partners and don't smother everything else. This is a very convincing approach to Beethoven, and it still sounds fresh and lively. The sound engineering is better than I expected, too. I will be coming back to this set regularly. What a find!
Glad you are enjoying it!
Love your attention to musical detail! You offer a musical education embedded in your reviews
Great video. Thanks! I was surprised that there was no mention of Klemperer and the Philharmonia. He has something fairly unique to say; and his 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th make very strong claims.
Yes, but I made the rather artificial distinction of insisting on a single box of the nine symphonies--some of his best versions were the monos that were not in the box (although they were in the Edition). Just gives me a reason to do a separate video, right? It's not as if this was our one and only shot.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, that makes sense. And I look forward to future videos. Thanks again! - and I didn't even mention Harnoncourt!
I am agree: Klemperer cycle is one top of the line. Another good one is Bruno Walter/Colombia Sym. Orch. and Soli Chicago.
Thank you - this was wonderfully informative and engaging! I look forward to watching more of your reviews!
My top favourite is also Wand! Extraordinary under all points of view. Thanks for giving more space and recognition than it usually has! I should also recommend the live recordings, simply to enjoy how beautiful Wand's work sounds under all circumstances.
This is also a very nice recording of the 3rd symphony.
th-cam.com/video/OILRSs1bRjA/w-d-xo.html
Yes Sir, I agree, completely, I've been a Wand fan for many years now and his cycle is the one to get!
I had seen this video a couple of days ago.. and then what to my wondering eyes should appear?? The Charles Mackerras set, sealed... for a Dollar!! Good grief! And let me say this, what I've listened to thus far, is wonderful. #4 and #9. So, thank you sir for opening my eyes and ears, to the possibilities.
You are very welcome.
Your recommendation for the Kletzki/Czech PO alone was worth the price of admission. The Eight is my favorite Beethoven symphony, and I am, quite frankly, embarrassed that I had not come across this performance earlier, and, God, do I love it! They do everything right as they perfectly highlight the Haydnesque humor throughout, which Beethoven takes to the next level whenever he's not being stubborn and, therefore, embraces his inner Haydn. The Fourth is my second favorite, and I intend to listen to Eugen Jochum’s (who I typically would go to for Bruckner’s choral works) performance tomorrow morning when my fiancé is at the dentist (she hates Beethoven because of how she was treated in graduate school by one of her professors who was Beethoven “scholar.”). I have the Jarvi cycle and very much enjoy his First and Fourth. I read a review somewhere (I no longer remember where) a critic who described his cycle as riding a motorcycle through Beethoven’s symphony cycle. I do not entirely agree with this assessment, but his cycle is certainly a mixed bag. I struggle falling in love with Beethoven’s Third, Sixth, and Ninth. The Third’s finale always seems to disappoint after what precedes it; the Sixth needs the second movement to be removed to make it a two parter, like Mahler Eight (something which Schubert’s Trout quintet would benefit from as well); and the Ninth’s finale comes across to me as misguided humor - I think Raff does a better job in his Fourth symphony when he parodies Beethoven). I will watch your other videos on these works to see if you recommend performances that will sway me on these wildly popular symphonies with which I have heretofore failed to connect.
Thank you, and have a happy New Year!
In going through a period of re listening to the beethoven symphony cycle. I currently have chosen to keep a mix of older and more modern sounding recordings . The cycles I am listening to now are the toscanini nbc cycle, Walter 2nd cycle, then the shell and steinberg cycles, karajan's third cycle 1970s, Bernstein's 1st cycle, Mutis Philly cycle, Barenboims first cycle, Tilton thomas" eco cycle, chailly's Leipzig cycle and finally paavo Jarvi's Bremen cycle and lastly cluytens bpo cycle. A wide range of musicianship and granted doesn't match all the recommendations but I enjoy it. 😊
I like the intensity on the Karajan 63 set more than the smoother, blended sound on 77 set.
1963 Karajan/Berlin Phil on DG was the first classical music set that I ever had. So I'm partial to it and I definitely prefer it over 1977 cycle. I still enjoy listening to 3rd and then 5-8 from this set, they're great recordings, even after I heard some others. But the 1st CD with symphonies 1 and 2? They sound indifferently played to me. There are also more interesting performances of the 4th and the 9th. I listened to this cycle many times and I rate highly 5 out of 9 symphonies, so it withstood the competition, just not everything is great in it.
@@theodentherenewed4785 I agree with you and Karajan doesn't do repeats which I like.
So enjoyable, David, and I will seek out Blomstedt. I appreciated your rules, so you must have felt that Walter fails somewhere I don't. As you would say, I think he plays them like they matter
This cycle fury has led me to discover the Steinberg/Pittsburgh cycle on Deutsche Grammophon. It's really a sleeper! They are incisive and on stereo too. It has a red-hot 3rd, 4th and 7th. Though it also has that odd Mahler arrangement for the 9th. Sending love from Singapore, Dave. 😘
Thank you!
Dear Dave, on the many occasions I watch your YT-channel, I always mostly enjoy videos that include some sort of comparison (come to think of it, they almost all do). I frequently watch Best/Worst videos and last autumn I was watching this one. Now, I've been collecting for many years, but this particular video made me ask the question: How many cycles have been issued? (the most obvious answer would be: Far to many. However, I've done some research and while doing so I've been using the following parameters:
a) A cycle must be on CDs (no LPs, DVDs, Blue-Rays, downloads etc.).
b) I’m preferably interested in publicly issued (authorized) cycles. However, I do have my idiosyncrasies and I have, therefore, listed a few unauthorized cycles (e.g. Jochum, Klemperer, Munch, Scherchen, Tennstedt and Toscanini).
c) A cycle must be conducted by one conductor.
d) A cycle may include symphonies performed by different orchestras.
e) A cycle might have been issued (or re-issued) by different labels.
Using these parameters, I have reached the grand total of 177 cycles, many of which are out of print. Would that number seem close to the mark to you?
Anyway, my findings are here:
facebook.com/share/GQkmWUt6LndkJUFi/
I'm glad Mr. Hurwitz mentioned the Schuricht Beethoven's with the Paris Conservatory Orchestra. A bit unsung - but to me fabulously well played and the French orchestra is an interesting admixture of "new" and "original instrument" approaches. And Schuricht is a fascinating conductor!
Hi Dave. Recently discovered your reviews and I’m so grateful to hear your generous and insightful comments. I was expecting the moment you mention Gardiner’s cycle, but was left high a dry 😂. Grew up listening to this version of the 9. My ear naturally filters Beethoven’s symphonies based on this version which I consider so lively and powerful. Based on your comments the closest version to Gardiner’s would be Mackerras using original period instrumentation; was wondering your thoughts about it.
I find Gardiner relatively dry and faceless. Mackerras is much, much better. You can see some reviews at ClassicsToday.com. I loved Gardiner when it came out, but it just hasn't worn well over time, but that's me.
glad I found this channel!- loving it
Welcome aboard!
My father loved the Klemperer set with the Philharmonia orchestra...he loved the slow, heavy tempo..."This is how Beethoven should be played" he said...lol
Klemp's Beethoven are real keepers. Even though I usually find the finales of his 5th and 7th maddenly slow, there is something strangely right about them when I consider how he renders both symphonies as a whole. What surprises me about Klemp is how much pop and verve the 1st 2nd and 4th have for a conductor who was supposedly so stodgy--they're among my favorites.
@@christophersmith6841 he's also one of the very few conductors that play the full complement of repeats in the ninth, scherzo. Making it over 16 minutes in length..
The Haitink/Concertgebouw from the '80s is one I often default to. No one every mentions it so I feel a little lonely but the performances are first-rate, particularly the underrated 2nd.
My go to set. 1, 2, 4, 8 are awesome
hi Iggy Reilly I have started to listen to Haitink's Concertgebouw cycle and love it , the recording is so clear and it is romantic and so right in its feeling , I do prefer the music on the slower side and don't respond to the super fast modern way. I also like a full sonorous orchestra , balanced with the woodwinds and brass of equal value in the mix. I haven't heard his latest cycle with the LSO . but this one really reveals the music to me. I find that the musical language is so clear. I like the older conductors that have really considered the playing of this greatest of music . all the best from at least one other person who has found Haitink my go to cycle. I still love Klemperer , Szell, Wand , Fricsay , Tennstedt .
I have the Blomstedt with Dresden in my collection that I found for three pounds and recently picked up a David Zinman cycle on Arte Nova. Any thoughts on his version?
Dear David! You are perfectly right, thanks for your explorations.
My pleasure!
@@DavesClassicalGuide can I reach you via email?
@@annagszasz5399 Sure: dhurwiitz@classicstoday.com
As a classical music neophyte, I appreciate these videos and look forward to digging into some of these boxed sets in the future, especially Kletzki and Wand. But for my first Beethoven symphony cycle purchase I’ve gone with William Steinberg. Just based on TH-cam samples, his recordings sing like Walter Bruno’s to me but recorded with more clarity. The symphonies were recorded using 35mm film in the 1950s/60s and the sound is amazing for the time!
Dear David, thank you very much for these videos. As a long time Beethoven fan, my first introduction to his symphonies were the recordings of Anton Nanut (Pity I could not find the entire cycle, I only listened to symphonies 1 to 4, 6 and 8). Then I discovered the cycles of Klemperer and Barenboim (the slowish tempos worked out for some symphonies only). Now, I checked out both the Blomstedt cycles and I prefer the first one (Staatskapelle Dresden) as the tempos are more to my liking and a bit slower than the recent one (the eight symphony finale, the ode to joy instrumental version before the voices step in, the first movement of the pastoral symphony are better in the first cycle. Perhaps as I listen more and more to the second cycle, my opinion might change). Without your videos, I would not have discovered this wonderful cycle. Thanks again.PS: Need to keep an eye on my bank balance:).
Great discussion! I could never come up with a whole set that satisfied me. I have Vanska’s and think they are all excellent with the possible exception of the 9th. Also have Zinman’s which was a revelation when it came out-speed demon that he is! Otherwise, I’ll choose Gardiner in 3, Kleiber in 5 (along with Wand and Szell/Concertgebouw) and 7, Wand in 6, and Karajan 1963 in 9 (though I agree his 1977 is also great except for his woeful lack of repeats in the scherzo-when it was issued separately).
Io
I have actually grown rather fond of Vanska`s 9th. It is a very classical view of the work. It isn't my go to, but I do like to break it out from time to time.
I really appreciate Jochum's Concertgebouw cycle, which you talk about in your video on the Philips recordings. I'm excited about comparing it with this one (London), which I've recently acquired. Many thanks.
Nine knockout boxes indeed. I confess that I've been moving the majority of my collection to Spotify playlists, but you may have convinced me to keep my Blomstedt symphonies (and my CD player!) in good shape
I like what I heard you say about the conductor and ensemble working together. I think many times the abilities of the ensemble are overlooked or downplayed and the conductor’s influence vastly overrated. I call it conductor worship. Your take on that subject is spot on.
Excelent advices 😉 Love Klemperer too…
Thanks again Dave. Great stuff. Karajan 77 for me, even though his Eroica and B8 from the digital cycle are wonderful.
When might you review Fricsay's Beethoven Symphony 9 on DG, Bernard?
I'd also add that the 9th from the 80s cycle has some superb moments. Might be my favourite Adagio of all Karajan's recordings.
I realized today, no Bruno Walter. His Columbia Symphony cycle is great. The new remastering is very good and the rehearsal disc is worth the price of admission. How about a video on the big Columbia box?
Oy! Just buy it!
Great! I've always been curious about Paul Kletzki's Beethoven...I've heard Abbado's cycle, Karajan's cycle (also with Philharmonia in the '50s), Cluytens with Berliner...this latter is very intriguing because Cluytens had often relaxed tempos in certain symphonies (7th and 9th for example) with an orchestra that was like a war jaggernaut ready to shot :D "Esprit" meets "Geist"...or not?! :)
I agree about the Cluytens set entirely! By the way, Kletzki's Czech Beethoven cycle is great for the very reasons that David Hurwitz mentions: the orchestra has a unique and distinctive sound that is very appealing; Kletzki doesn't impose a highly personal interpretation on the music but guides the musicians in giving their best and producing a natural-sounding result that just seems "right" in every respect. ~ John Drexel
A lot of people have mentioned the Cluytens/Berlin cycle. So I'll just add my vote to that. Also, if historic performances are to be considered, the Toscanini 1939 cycle (live) with the NBC as realized by Andrew Rose at Pristine audio is absolutely electric. Not for the faint at heart.
Wow. I almost never agree with critics but liked the recommendations right down the line. Maybe I'm crazy, but I also admire the old Joseph Krips set. It sounds better than ever remastered and marketed in a weird little, tin cookie box.
Yes! His 7th is spectacular--really torrid and rugged. Krips delivers across the board without affectation or eccentricity.
@@christophersmith6841 I agree. I find myself listening to his seventh the most. It counterbalances my other favorite from the era, Bruno Walter with his Columbia Symphony, quite nicely. I love the way Krips allows his players some expressiveness. Very Viennese, to my ears. Regrettably, the strings aren't quite as fleet as they should be, but overall I think it is a very satisfying and, as you point out, un-eccentric traversal.
Thank you so much for your videos Mr. Hurwitz! I would be very interested to know what you think of Pablo Casals' recordings with the Marlboro Festival Orchestra. They were a revelation for me when I first heard them many years ago. Especially the 7th is unique I think!
Many of them are exceptional--rather like Sandor Végh in their insight and humanity. I'd love to do a talk about them sometime.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you!!! That would be great! I am looking forward to it!
David Hurwitz I think we would all love something like that
David, these reviews are golden. I’m finding that I’m spending hours listening to you, listening to your performance recommendations, and inevitably, purchasing more music. I just got the Wand set as I run out of storage space (I like your shelves) Have you heard Wand’s 4 Letzte Lieder with Martina Arroyo? Gorgeous!
Yes, I've talked about that recording. It's great.
Glad to know I am not the only one who prefers the 1977 Karajan to the 1963.
Though I'm not sure about the madly obstreperous timpani playing, especially in No. 7...
Finally found the Wand/NDR cycle. Passionate sincerity, excellent sonics and engineering, and a well-rehearsed, full-sounding orchestra. A very fine recommendation to complement the Mackerras/SCO set, joyous performances that get to me. Of course there are so many treasurable performances of individual symphonies by Furtwängler, Walter, Szell, Klemperer, Schuricht, Kleiber, Blomstedt, Bernstein, and Honeck, among others. Vänskä's set disappointed me, analytical but lacks the sweeping or joyous "carried-away" quality I expect in these works.
just because I didn´t hear about this cycle on here yet: I recently stumbled across Colin Davis` Beethoven with the Staatskapelle Dresden, and I must say: I´m pretty amazed by it.
I think it's a touch boring, and that was also the "consensus" when it was first released--it appeared just a touch late in Davis' career.
@@DavesClassicalGuide maybe a little. I just find the Dresden-sound rather captivating on these.
@@DavesClassicalGuide but yeah, after re-listening - you´re not wrong, sadly.
Never payed much attention to the Schuricht, but on your enthusiastic recommendation I’m currently sampling his set. Wow! I’m hearing details I never even thought existed. Such distinctive phrasing. A shame it wasn’t given more modern sound. Thanks for the tipoff.
Hope you continue to enjoy it!
Hi Dave - love your videos. I just found and purchased the Otto Klemperer set on EMI, not Warner - they are lovely. When I get a (new) complete cycle, I start with either the 4th or 8th symphonies - enjoy them all but these 2 gems are often "lost", primarily the 4th! What wonderful conducting. Now for Gunter Wand - I heard his reading of the 5th several years ago on air - it was like hearing it again for the first time. And what a set, a master conducting the works of a master. I don't believe you mentioned the Sir Simon set on EMI/Warner - I bought it upon its release believing the EMI hype. Perhaps the WORST set ever. I don't think I listened to the entire set. I mention this because you did bring up his Mahler cycle - thanks, I really am enjoying all of your videos
Love the Wand set. None better!
Another cycle I think is great is the Riccard Muti one from 1998. A little less in your face compared to Karajan's 1963 collection (which is still great but a harder feel). Muti gives, I believe, a little of the Italian feel to his renditions.
I don't know where to add a general comment, Dave, but I really wish you would address one of the major questions I have about modern (formerly called avant garde) classical music: Why do modern composers abhor melody? If you go to a concert or opera composed in the last 20 years or so and come out humming even a fragment of melody, the composer has failed. Even Puccini had the sense to include "O Mio Babbino Caro" in "Gianni Schicchi." Operas are now 99% concerned with the text, with the musical score providing a supposedly supportive or psychological wall of sound that sounds completely arbitrary to me. You never get the feeling that every note is essential as you do with Mozart. I call it noodling, placing one note or chord or arpeggio after another as if by chance. Am I right or am I right?
You aren't right, but I'll think about it and hopefully suggest some reasons why.
Thank you for a thoughtful review. Very dangerous topic! You’re recommendations hit 9 of my favorite cycles. I was astounded. Jochum/LSO has long been a favorite. I am also a fan of his Amsterdam cycle which is one of the most beautiful cycles ever recorded. Agree as well that the 70’s Karajan set is his best...the 9th is stunning. Barenboim: wonderful. Schuricht...totally unique cycle that I couldn’t live without. As an aside, I also like the DG (partial) cycle with Markevitch and the Orchestre Lamoureux. Mackerras conducts a very exciting cycle...as is the Hyperion cycle. I have both Blomstedts. The playing of the Gewandhaus pushes this cycle into my top 10. Your only recommendation that I didn’t know was the Kletzki. I intend to remedy that as soon as possible. Szell...of course! As for Gunther Wand, I think his Beethoven and Brahms cycles are tops...and often overlooked!
Love that Markevitch too! What a great Fifth!
I have ordered the Kletzki cycle from England. I will look forward to hearing it.
Thank you for this Review. My Favorite is the Blomstedt Cycle and i also like the Gardiner Cycle. I never thought about Wand an Ludwig Van.....Wand is allways mentioned with Bruckner, i keep it in mind. What do you Think about TACET's Beethoven Symphonies with the Polish Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra under Wojciech Rajski. I found it Yesterday in a Munich Record-Store on Vinyl.
I'm not a fan.
Given your positive reviews on every single symphony of Vanska's cycle with the Minnesota Orchestra, I expected that to be near the top here. I will need go check some of these out!
You have to draw the line somewhere, and there's no shortage of excellent versions.
@@DavesClassicalGuide granted! Love your stuff man, I've been getting really into classical the past few months (mahler's ninth hooked me) and your recommendations have been really helpful for me to know where to look when exploring new works and recordings. Thank you!
Many many thanks 🙏
Anybody, is the cycle by Barenboim with the red case cover the same as the cycle with Barenboim wearing a hat and showing half his face. It has a few overtures added but I was just wondering if the symphonies were a remaster or different.
They are the same.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Cool. Thank you.
I love Blomstedt's Dresden recording of Beethoven's 2nd. Thank you for the recommendation. I also found a glorious Blomstedt and Dresden recording of Mozart''s 39th Symphony. I usually find interpretations of the 39th problematic--but NOT this.
It's interesting how things have changed in S.F. After some of the players spread the rumor that Blomstedt didn't know what he was doing and managed to get rid of him in the early '90s (truth is, he pushed them too much in rehearsal for their union asses), he's now welcomed back any time with open arms, by both the audience and players alike. I think you can draw further conclusions from that.
Heard Blomstedt conduct Beethoven 3rd live in SF several years ago. Disappointing.
nothing wrong with unions.
@@1spitfirepilot I didn't say there was. I'm speaking of a specific incident. Unions aren't always 'right' either.
I just listened to Wand's 9th and I had my socks knocked off half a dozen times. And I wasn't even wearing socks!
The HvK was the cycle I had on vinyl. I remember it being unfavorably compared to 1963, but it did the job for me.
Hi dave
I love your reviews an recommendations
Do you know the Beethoven Cyrcles by Otmar Suitner - Staatskapelle Berlin from 1988 - DENON Label?
For me it is the best combination of interpretation and Sound quality.
What do you think about if you have the opportunity to listen to it?
I stumbled across the Karajan cycle on vinyl and it’s wonderful. Do you have a video of the best consistent 9 symphonies on vinyl?
Sorry, no.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Got it. Actually PoetryOnPlastic have great reviews and another guy, Analog Planet, had a great list. Two that peaked my interested from him, was a Readers Digest Cycle, and one with Simon Rattle conducting, but is totally unaffordable for me.
The Wand set is my favorite - but I also enjoy Harnocourt with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe and Andre Cluytens with the Berlin Philharmonic sets from time to time
Don't worry about blow back from your choices... we come to you for your insight!
If you want to talk about Furtwangler separately maybe a best of Furtwangler/Beethoven video. You could do that for any other picks that aren't consistent as a set. Beethoven ONE-OFFs maybe. Cheers David!
I have the Simon Rattle with the Berliner Philharmoniker from 2015. I like it but that's all I know. I must get the Szell and compare.
Dear Dave. Having watched this classic video many times and having explored several cycles since, I’d say that the Chailly and Vanska cycles are the modern cycles to hear. In both I’d say the ninth is more effective than P Jarvi’s, simply because his forces are so reduced. When you reviewed these two cycles they both received 10/10 ratings on ClassicsToday. Having read my share of criticism, I know that opinions may be modified with the passing of time. Things happen. What I would be very curious to know is, since then, would you still rate these as highly? Thanks so much.
I still think that they are both excellent.
I opted for the Barenboim set on your recommendation, and the performances are very fine indeed. Another thing in its favor is the generous booklet. There are excellent, sizable essays about each of the symphonies and detailed histories of the Staatskapelle Berlin and Daniel Barenboim. Quality of printing and binding is first-rate.
It is with trepidation I venture forth. Please, I fully respect the ground rules...b-b-but...Zinman?
The reasons I ask are: Number 1 spot on your Piano Concerto cycle; Top spot for the Triple Concerto; Honourable mention for Missa Solemnis...
I just wondered where he falls short in his Symphony cycle.
"Chord" vs. "Line". One of things that I never understood is conductors who bury voicings and parts. It makes no sense to me. Obviously you have to have balance and a blending, I'm not saying that's not important. But to me, what is the point of a composer writing for an instrument if you can't hear it? In other words, for me, to have a part that you can't hear is no different than not having the part in the score.
Good recommendations on this video, I agree (although I'd add a few more cycles worth being on that list).
How about Cluytens and his cycle with the Berlin Philharmonic? Perhaps it is not a well-known recording. But it was one of the reasons I bought it.
It's very well known, and decent but not great.