Repertoire: The BEST Beethoven Seventh Symphony
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- Here they are! Ten of the very best versions of one of Beethoven's most iconic works: the sunny and dynamic Seventh Symphony. Of course, there are many fine performances of this often-recorded piece, but I can say with confidence that any of these choices stands among the greatest recordings ever made, and not just of this particular work. Check 'em out!
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The first classical box I ever bought (1970) was the Szell Beethoven symphonies, so they are my first love. His seventh is always thrilling to hear.
Same here, Szell's Beethoven Symphonies was the first box set I ever purchased, and I loved listening to it back in the day, but personally, I think there are better performances of the 7th. I'm listening to Fritz Reiner's recording right now on another tab, and I just think it's better than Szell's, in every regard really.
Yes! Toscanini and Beethoven. What a magical combo, and especially in the seventh. Glad to know about this particular release.
But think of the poor orchestra musicians forever getting war post traumatic anxiety every time they were listening to this joyous symphony
All great choices. I must give a plug to Bruno Walter's 1959 Columbia Symphony version, which many modern-day listeners will immediately regard as too heavy. BUT...the coda to the first movement is totally thrilling: once the big ostinato in the cell/bass starts grinding away, Walter actually SLOWS the tempo a bit and lets the massive sense of momentum build, with ethereal violins and winds above that slowly begin to animate. It is amazing.
In the coda to the FINALE, it would be difficult to imagine a conductor not being able to whip up excitement, but the generally warm, "humane' Bruno Walter is as thrilling as ANY that I've heard! He actually does some re-voicing of the big fff A7 chord, so that not all winds and trumpets are playing the same G natural; the second trumpet, for instance, plays an 'E' a third below, and the effect is, well...more warm and "humane", amidst all of the delirium surrounding it. I love it. The West-Coast Columbia Symphony included personnel from the LA Phil but also many great European expatriates who did most of the studio/film work in Hollywood..and you can imagine how THRILLED they were to have the opportunity to play this music under a great conductor. LR
Walter skipped all the repeats!
I imprinted on this recording as a child in the early 1970s. Walter is still my dad’s favorite interpreter of LvB symphonies above all others, for the warmth. Thanks for mentioning this one since Dave didn’t. Certainly some of the tempos are slower than ideal, but not so slow as to ruin the musical content.
I was pleased to see Beecham on your list, as I had the privilege in 1959 to see him conduct the 7th on his final American tour. The concert was in Washington, but the orchestra was not the then mediocre National Symphony, but the splendid Philadelphia! Spellbinding from beginning to end, but the last movement brought the house down. I wish someone had recorded it. Several years ago I discovered the special qualities of the Casals Marlboro recordings, and I'm glad to see them recommended so eloquently here.
You, sir, are a lucky man. I wish I were so fortunate.
So pleased you mentioned Erich Kleiber. I find his 7th is magnificent. Also, agree wholeheartedly with your comments on Wand. I wonder what you think of Ormandy, a conductor I like a lot but seems to have fallen through the slats, so to speak. I very much appreciate your Beethoven discussions. I'm currently embarked on a Beethoven symphony exploration and your recommendations and descriptions are a lighthouse in the infinitude of recorded options.
There's a video on Ormandy that you can check out!
In honour of Beethoven's 250th, with the help of your reviews, I have been broadening my Beethoven horizons! I've really enjoyed and benefited from your BEST Beethoven Ninth (I put on a tie to type that :), Eight, and Seventh! I'm looking forward to the BEST Sixth, Fifth, etc! Any and all Beethoven reviews are very welcome and appreciated! Thanks and best wishes!
Beethoven’s 7th is an amazing symphony. The first movement is very joyful and you can’t help but smile while hearing it. The allegretto is one of the most tragic movements in the symphonic repertoire. The third movement is quite comedic with it being in F Major instead of A Major and the presto has really exciting sforzandos it’s like a roller coaster to me.
Dorati recorded all nine symphonies with Detroit and were broadcast on PBS in the early 80s. Would be nice to see and hear them again.
As a kid in the '80s, my first complete set was the venerable Steinberg/Pittsburgh. Record stores (Remember those?) were getting rid of all their vinyl and I got a steal. Still have and love it.
Loved his 7th and 3rd! I'm amazed on the recent DG remastering how they softened the sound of those fairly shrill Command originals. Recommended!
@@brtherjohn Great to find another admirer of that oft-overlooked bargain set. Wonderful playing, including the clarinet squawk in the repeat of the expo in 4/i. Yes, very highly recommended!
The Steinberg Beethoven 7th was my Favorite LP when I was a kid.
George Sizzle
Exemplary work, as always, Mr. Hurvitz...thank you. Though I'm familiar with and enjoy almost all of your recommended traversals, I recall most fondly an LP of a young Colin Davis leading the RPO. It remains my favorite version.
I "grew up" with Toscanini's commercial recording with NBC, and it has imprinted me ever since. However, I have ventured far afield of the Maestro over the decades and have come to enjoy Casals, Beecham, Walter (sluggish at times, but inimitably humane), Jochum, Ormandy (underrated), Cluytens, and Fricsay, among others. I was intrigued that you plugged Dorati on Mercury. I have the big Mercury boxes in my collection but have never gotten around to hearing that conductor's Beehoven. Now I must.
Thank you, Dave, for a highly enjoyable romp through Beehoven's Seventh and a few of its better recordings.
Thank you for your wonderful insights. I found I had Monteaux conducting the 7th with the LSO in my collection of LPs, and your insights have given me fresh ears! Actually, you have ignited an interest in revisiting a lot of Beethoven which I haven't pursued in recent decades. The suggestions of recent recordings are great! Thanks again.
That Blomstedt was wonderful! First hearing. As is his 6th. His 7th is big, bold, perfectly tempo'd, majestic! I think the 7th needs a name. It has great elements of the 6th and the 4th, creating a whole new sound.
Love to see the Casals recognized. I first found that recording as a cutout bargain when I was a teenager (reared on Munch/BSO and Toscanini/NBC) and it blew me away. It proves that the music doesn't have to be rushed to pound the pulse.
Thanks for your great recommendations. I already have five of the ten that you list in my collection, and agree with you on all of them (Toscanini, Dorati, Casals, Bernstein and Szell). I especially want to endorse your recommendation of the Dorati. The way he allows the basses to do their thing in the codas of the 1st and 4th movements is stunning. Some might find it a little vulgar, but after hearing it, everybody else just sounds anemic.
Yes! Szell! Amazing. Energy and clarity. It is perfect. Thank you for your comments on Carlos Kleiber. I agree.
I was so glad to see Casals in there which was my first, and it's always a joy to see a youthful memory untarnished by nostalgia! It was listed by High Fidelity Magazine in their article called 25 Years or A Quarter Century of Recorded Riches, and I used that thing as an audiophiles Bible. I still remember how I felt when I first heard the Casals, like experiencing the sun suddenly bursting through the clouds 😀
Wonderful review as always. I had some of them before listening to this review, Blomstedt, Szell, Bernstein, Beecham, Honeck, Dorati, Fricsay and always found them fascinating. However I tend to like faster tempos in the fourth movement which is the only reason I wouldn't call Szell's the best seventh though it is certainly one of the best. Of course I am no musician and do not have your background but I have been listening to classical music on a daily basis for over 40 years now and it's unavoidable to develop a taste in works as popular as this one. So, if I may, I'd like to add Abbado's with Berlin in Rome (ideal tempos for my taste) and Kleiber's DVD with the Concertgebow. I know you don't like Abbado's Beethoven much but even you gave him a 9/9 rating to this one (that was a surprise when I read it) and I feel validated because feel the same of Kleiber's Vienna on DG, I find it reeeeallly overated. (does not apply to the fifth, that one I do love). As for now I will go to listen to Casals & Järvi, and probably Toscanini though I can't quite get the mono sound. This is the great thing about your reviews, I get to listen things that I would have never listened to. Really worth the Insider's money.
OMG I love the Szell Cleveland 7th. It’s thrilling and perfect. I am spoiled because this is the first Beethoven 7th I ever heard and owned. Now decades later I can’t tolerate any other rendition. They all sound so wrong in comparison. Thank you!
I’m absolutely in love with the Lenny-Vienna one. You can count on those horns to get it right, and what rich textures!
One of my favorites is by Walter Weller and the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra. The sound and the playing are exceptional and the entire set costs around 10 dollars. It also includes the incomplete Symphony No. 10 for curiosity sake.
Beautiful Dorati! The sound is incredible. Reminds me of Klemperer's Mozart way of texturing layers.
Did I miss Fritz Reiner's mention, it's definitely one of the best performances I've ever heard, even better than Szell, and I own the Szell on disc.
Totally agreed. Reiner is my favorite. The tension in the last movement is incredible. Plus there's a video. And Janos Starker is principal cello. Supposedly, Reiner was responsible for bringing Starker to the US.
thank you for reminding me of the great Casals recording. I had it as a teenager and forget about it
Oh thank goodness I’m not alone!I never understand that Wagner quote, but there it was in the liner notes of every damn recording
If you know what the meaning of the word "apotheosis" is, then it makes perfect sense. The real issue is whether you agree with Wagner's statement or not. At the end of the day, it's just a cute quote.
I was to say exactly the same!!!!
I've always thought Wagner's observation was a reasonable one. Three of the four movements contain the most rustic and danceable rhythms of any Beethoven symphony and would, I imagine, be very exhilarating to dance to, and watch, if it were well coreographed. Whether or not it's the "apotheosis of the dance" is debatable but I get why he said it.
One of Wagner's biographers said that he wrote to figure out what he thought, by continuing to express opinions until he had tried them all. Probably he said somewhere else that the 7th was the apotheosis of sculpture. His unconscious mind was a genius; too bad about his conscious one!
I am familiar with about half of these performances. Can’t wait to taste the others!
Thanks for your passionate recommendations.
My pleasure! But always smell before tasting.
Thank heavens someone has the courage to place the Szell above the Kleiber! I have always been confused by the legendary status of the Keliber. Does it really deserve all the adoration it receives? I can't say it does. While it is a very very good performance, there is little pichache to behold. Give me a little danger and if not that, make it sound epic. Szell is EPIC in a David Lean kind of way. He makes the Kleiber recording seem so tiny.
I prefer so many others to Carlos. While I also enjoy some of the others noted, I also give frequent spin to the Cluytens. He produces a huge and dramatic reading of the 7th and has fun doing it. I also enjoy Gardiner's sizzle and pop. The novelty of hearing this symphony played on period instruments allows us a taste of how The Revolutionary must have put those 19th century musicians to the test and Gradiner pushes his musicians dangerously above and beyond.
I agree with everything you say
"The speed doesn't have to be fast if the rhythm is emphatic and if you hear everything you're supposed to hear." Indeed, and that's true of so many pieces. If I had to single out the major crime of "historically informed" sectarians, distinguishing them from good performances on period instruments, it's that (as you often say) you can't hear the bloody tune, or the bass line, or whatever, because they're speeding away like a geriatric racing car owner trying to score with someone half their age. They should stick to the neglected works of Sir Henry Adderall...
And thank God one major critic rates The Consecretation of the House! Every time I put it on I pray that Beethoven will keep it going for another couple of minutes.
I can be very picky when it comes to classical music. But I love it!!
Great pics and I'm glad you went with Szell. I'm also a fan of Dohnanyi's Cleveland recording on Telarc.
Szell's a great choice (and Fricsay), but I'd certainly want either/both Mackerras recordings in the mix as well. I'm also very partial to Cantelli/Philharmonia as that was the recording through which I got to know the piece when I was a kid.
Mackerras with the Liverpool's is amazing, indeed. And I have a fascination for Szell too. And I do not know why but I like very much Abendroth and Mengelberg, if I take abstraction of the so so sound. And I coukd have name all the seventh of the catalogue, because I like Beethoven so much. And here in Quebec, Yannick Nezet Seguin gave us a wonderfull seventh in concert that I will surely buy the recording when I will find it.
Mackerras' cycle in Hyperion is one of my very favourite. So agree with you.
@@josecarmona9168 Same here.
Thank you. I don't believe I've ever heard that Dorati recording! For some reason I recall the Cantelli/Philharmonia, and I haven't heard it in years. The Council of Dotage appreciates your mention of their members.
For years I was looking to re-enact the tremendous thrill I had, on first listening to Joseph Krips's 7th with LSO on the old Everest record. My pilgrimage led me through 30-40 versions that I own, but none enacted for me the delicacy, warmth, joy and elation and sense of wonder that I had with that old Krips, especially in the orgasmic closing pages. Of course this is very personal and subjective, but I was wondering, Dave, what would have been YOUR impression.
I find Krips' Beethoven to be very ordinary, but it just goes to show how personal this is. In general, I'm not sentimental about versions of works that I imprinted on or that gave me a thrill long ago. Even here, although I recommend Szell, an older version, I never heard his Beethoven cycle complete until it was issued on CD. My first Beethoven cycle was Cluytens, mixed with Steinberg, although I had the Toscanini 7th too.
Thanks for this....and happy to see Casals in there! And Beecham! I'll take the studio one over it for sure, but there's a live one from '59 with even more yaks yaking it up....he obviously enjoyed "the ride" on that one. I would add the Klemperer mono Philharmonia one (although it's been issued in somewhat ineffective stereo also). Maybe not as good as the Eroica and 5th from those mid 50s sessions, but still superior Otto K and the ultimate "slab of granite" version. You've made me want to get the Szell out of the 10 ton boxed set to refresh my memory of it.
When you do rehear the Szell,I would certainly like to hear your opinion.
I agree with you; Klemperer is magnificent!
@@frankgyure3154 Gave a listen to the Szell finally. Sound is really wonderful in the big box...not as close in as I remembered it, but allows plenty of detail, which is the strongpoint of the performance, imho. I think Szell's handling of transitions belie the standard dictum that he was an unyielding taskmaster. Actually some of his Brahms strikes me as wandering around TOO much, but here it works wonderfully (things like the last big crescendo at the end of the 1st mvt.). However, I find, in the end a certain lack of characterization keeps it from my absolute top echelon. I wish he had coupled the incisiveness with a LITTLE bit of grunt and grime....Casals has that, of course, but with certainly a less "professional" sheen. Each has it's virtues. Szell is nowhere near a Karajan kind of sheen, but I was surprised to find it there even this much. I pulled out the Konwitschny Gewandhaus version, and wow, did that impress this time around! Is it Kapellmeister-ish? If so, it's a whole gamut of shades of grey, like a B&W etching with a ton of detail. Here was the characterization I craved from Szell..And the balances are nearly ideal. There's enough gruffness to satisfy me, and damn, the finale kicks out the exit with a great zing. There's a remaster of the set from 2017 that's much better than the old No-noised BC cds. Blomstedt/Dresden is delicious too.... I've got that on now. Btw, does ANY orchestra tune higher than Staatskapelle Dresden in that period? Wow, is that A 450 or something? Same with the Kempe R. Strauss recordings. Anyone have any insight into that? They can't have gotten the pitch wrong on every issue, right?
@@nealkurz6503 wow. Thank you for getting back to me. Really liked and surprised by your in-depth reply.
Agree with the Szell. I think your comments about Szell in this video are also applicable to his entire Beethoven cycle(my favorite).I’ve read over the years that the Szell 7th has been considered a reference so I don’t know why it’s considered a surprise. BTW,I am sure you know but for any Szell fans out there,the Somm label has just released some unreleased Szell recordings of the mid-1950’s. Szell did record all for Columbia/Sony but I have read some very good reviews of it.
I've very seldom seen the Szell called a reference version. In fact, when I was coming up in the business in the early 80s the talk was all about Bernstein, Kleiber, Karajan and Solti. Szell was yesterday's news already.
Great performances...I'm partial to the Jochum/LSO recording
I always thought my favorites - Casals and Beecham - were idiosyncratic - but here they are! I would throw in the Monteux/LSO on Decca, another elderly conductor near the end of his career, producing a clear, lithe, lively, youthful recording that won't age.
I learned my 7th from the Casals recording still dear to my heart, but I'd add two other favorite versions, Pierre Monteux with London Symphony Orchestra on Decca and from the recent crop, Osmo Vänskä conducting the Minnesota Orchestra on BIS.
I'll second the Monteux/LSO recording.
Indeed I love the Monteux too.
Bernstein's perversion of the Seventh? I love it LOL!
If you ever come to the UK - I'd love to meet you, and discuss these recordings - I am not an expert: wish I was; but I love to talk about music.
PS - I don't give a saucer of piddle how your pronouce Szell - who the hell cares? The music is what matters.
Szell's 7th is my favorite as well. I also love Mackerras' 7th with Royal Liverpool Philharmonic. I bought it after I watched your recommendation video of Beethoven's complete symphonies set, and it became my new favorite.
I'm a huge admirer of Beethoven's 7th and have listened to just about every recording of it. I was thrilled to see your inclusion of the Casals, Beecham, and Fricsay performances, three of my top favorites, all teeming with life and musicality! I also applaud all of the other choices you made. À propos of "there may be others," my top "others" are those by René Leibowitz leading Beecham's Royal Philharmonic, a model of the balance of which you speak and a perfect tempo for the Allegretto, and the lamented Toscanini protégé Guido Cantelli's Philharmonia rendition (in stereo!). Have you heard those? I remember Bruno Walter's stereo remake and Pierre Monteux's stereo effort as pleasing me at the time, but haven't heard them in such a long time I can't honestly say if they should be included in a "Best" list. Now, (drumroll please!), I was shocked- SHOCKED, I tell you, that you failed to mention every other music critic's wet dream of a recording, that of Carlos Kleiber! Hee hee, I have MY opinion of that, what is yours?
I gave my opinion of Kleiber in the talk. And yes, of course I've heard the others!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Oops, I stopped listening just before your Szell entry, agreeing with you about that one and thinking you had no more to say. Lesson learned: listen to everything you have to say!
Hi Dave, great to wake up to a new video! agree with the szell. In a way I think its the modern toscanini performance. I have always liked Leibowitz, with the royal philharmonic. Talk about horns !!! Its probably not a top 10 for most, but there is something a bit uninhibited and crazy about it, that reflects the soul of the work. Love your scarlatti odyssey as well!
PAUL G.
David loves the Leibowitz!
Great minds think alike, I guess!
Can I just say I'm astounded by people's persistence in calling this a not so melodious Symphony? The 2nd movement, sure, but the first theme of the first movement is one of my favorite melodies of all time! It was memorable and effective on the first listen, a moment I won't forget. It keeps on putting a smile on my face when it first enters, no matter how many times I listen to it. I don't know what the others are hearing, but to me it's the most perfect, simple theme, and what he does with it throughout the movement is pure ecstacy.
Szell wins for me! Listened to Kleiber for the first time in a long while and was pleasantly surprised. Maybe I was taking it a bit for granted, I was so used to it that it 'became' the piece, and the interpretation and performing invisible. That kinda sounds like a compliment, but with Beethoven I like hearing effort. Not struggle: effort. I guess listening to a variety of recordings is always good to stay aware of what is actually happening in a performance. For now, Kleiber reclaimed a No. 2 spot for me.
Great 😃Synopsis of the Beethoven 7th. Szell's Allegretto in the 3rd movement is right-on! Bruno Walter's 7th both NY PHIL and COLUMBIA SYMPHONY are excellent human performances as well. But Dave has nailed it down this time.
The Allegretto is the second movement.
Thanks for another great video. Your comment about the exposition repeat in the first movement is spot on. I suspect Beethoven was trying to stick as closely to form as possible--the exposition starts with the Vivace, so the repeat must go to there. But how thrilling it would be if the repeat went back to the fortissimo tutti.
I think Beethoven had something else in mind in the first movement repeat other than just (or only) sticking closely to form. See my main thread comment from one day ago.
Bernstein Freudian slip: "... and that makes this 'perversion' of the 7th quite, quite special..." HAHA!
Did I say that? Fabulous! A Freudian slip for sure!
@@DavesClassicalGuide I think you started to say performance, and switched, mid-word, to version... Made me laugh.
@@JackBurttrumpetstuff You're very kind to give me the benefit of the doubt, but I like your first interpretation!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Well, you did LIKE the recording...
Wow - I really did raise an eyebrow, then I thought, no, he couldn't have said that...
I guess he did really say it. Delicious.
I have forgotten to salute the living encyclopedia of classical music recordings and music. His opinions are IMO at least 99% reliable.
I just heard it live with The Symphony orchestra of India and Richard Farnes!!
Interesting that you include Beecham. My top choice is still the 1961 Royal Philharmonic recording on EMI conducted by Colin Davis. I save the name of the conductor for last intentionally, as I have opined that the ghost of Beecham is thecreal conductor, the RPO being his hand picked and trained ensemble. I often wonder about the fabulous Readers Digest/Chesky Barbiroli Sibelius 2nd from the same era.
The Davis 7th was the only 7th, I beleive, to get a rosette in the first edition of the Penguin guide (not that there is anything universally outstanding about those rosettes).
Interesting theory, and quite possible. It is a terrific 7th whatever the reason.
Reiner - Chicago. Never gets mentioned but I love it.
Agreed, one of the best performances I have ever heard, in my opinion, better than Szell. I also like Solti's rendition of Beethoven's 7th, it has a different tone from Reiner's, meaning it doesn't have the edge that Reiner's does, it's more rounded and smooth, but it's also got a fuller sound because of that, and it's still crisp, not soft at all.
@@mydogskips2 Yes, I like both of Solti's famous recordings. Another conductor that put out tons of great stuff yet never seems too make anyone's list.
That does it. I have to get that Casals recording...
It appears we seek different things from our music, David: my favorite Beethoven's 7th is Mengleberg's followed by Furtwaengler's 1943. I have a Toscanini later than the recording you like and the Szell (did he make multiples?). They are too clinical for me. But, in appreciation of your great enthusiasm, I will take out my Szell and listen to it anew! Regards
That is fine. I would only note that your "clinical" is my "audible." I appreciate your taking another crack as Szell. I just want to note that those performances are strikingly limited in what you can actually hear, and I can't believe that you have heard nothing since (never mind my preferences) that does not do far better justice to the music while being equally "unclinical."
I'm very impressed with Philharmonia/Ashkenazy, and also Gardiner's second recording with ORR.
I'm not.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I kind of suspected that.....
Glad to see the Fricsay in there, magnificent from the first bar to the last. There is a electric seventh with the NHK orchestra conducted by von Matacic. If you can find it, stunning!
There is no shortage of electric 7ths--as well as quite a few diesel driven, steam powered, nuclear, and spring-loaded!
Apologies if someone has already mentioned it but Colin Davis' RPO version on EMI (as was) is a smoker of a performance IMHO
Completely agreed--I was just going to write basically the same comment. This truly is an under-rated and under-noticed performance. And it's in EMI's superb Davis early recordings box, not to be missed.
I agree too. It tends to get overlooked. Barnstorming performance and one of Davis greatest recordings.
Karajan’s 1971 filmed version is better than his other recordings. I wish it was available as an audio version.
Isaac Stern pronounced it “Zell”. That’s good enough for me. ☺️
actually it is Sael, with an s at the beginning, and with ae in the middle. it means wind in Hungarian
@@leonardodavinci5779 I will ask my sister-in-law. She is Hungarian.
I've always heard Zell, or Sell, and occasionally Tzell. Accepted if not correct.
@@jefolson6989 sell is closest. tzell is wrong, there is no t in it. z is for not pronunce it "sh" . it's the opposite of the polish
@@hmhparis1904 I thought the exact same thing!
Thank you for another fascinating session. In the Gramophone for September 1961 Edward Greenfield compares two 'bargain Sevenths', the Szell and the Colin Davis/RPO. I would love to know your opinion of the article.
Looking forward to your Consecration of the House talk. Another overlooked one, is the Nameday overture. Great rhythmic momentum to the main body of the piece.
I have only heard one of the performances mentioned. I'm inclined towards the mono and period-instrument eras, thus some of my favorites will reflect that: Sergiu Celibidache with Berlin, Guido Cantelli with Philharmonia, Toscanini from the 1939 NBC cycle, Bruggen with Orchestra of 18th Century, although the texture is quite brittle. Looking forward to hearing your recommendations!
I once dated a girl in college whose major was pre- and post-tonal music. I asked her, "Why are you ignoring the only stuff everyone cares about?" Happy listening!
Wow, I actually have four of these ten. But though I'm not likely to replace my Toscanini with the Japanese issue, I agree about the de-noising problem. Removing the noise often means removing some of the higher frequencies too. Agree entirely about the tempo issue in the scherzo; the trio is marked Assai meno mosso but that doesn't mean slowing to a crawl (as with Monteux, IIRC). Gunther Schuller has a really interesting chapter on performances of this work in his "The Compleat Conductor," though sometimes he goes off the deep end.
Schuller was a panic. He and I had a screaming fight about that book at the MIDEM convention in France--it was great fun.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Go on; more details about the substance of your argument / disagreement, please, and do tell what provoked tensions to rise to a shouting match...!^^
@@colinwrubleski7627 It was just a good, clean, vigorous debate about his insane theory of dynamics (that no orchestral instrument should be louder in a tutti than the volume produced by the weakest member of the ensemble).
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yet he brings out other valid points about rhythm and balance that are worth attending to. In the first movement of 7, for example, he claims that many conductors fail to have their orchestras play the dotted eighth-sixteenth-eighth 6/8 rhythm correctly. Somewhere in the Books-with-Craft, Stravinsky makes a similar point that the 6/8 rhythms in one recording he heard devolve into 2/4. I'll give Schuller props too in his own recording of LvB 5 for bringing out balances not always heard (the winds in one passage of the slow movement, and the piccolo-contrabassoon-trombones in the finale).
Mark Obert-Thorn did a very good xfer for Pristine Classical recently. He strikes a very good balance between cleaning up debris and leaving the full range of the recording intact. He also included the alternate first take of the first side, since the original one was damaged at some point and a 2nd (faster) take was substituted. Does Opus Kura include that?
I have never heard a period instrument performance that can compare to these 10, but if I had to pick, it would be Weil/Tafelmusik.
Hi David, I just wanted to let you know that this video is yet to be added to your Beethoven TH-cam Playlist. I want to make sure that Beethoven and Hurwitz fans are seeing this!
Thanks for letting me know!
My favorite version of Beethoven 7th is Karl Bohm and the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra. It's a good version if you like it slow, especially the 2nd movement. Bernstein (VPO) and Karajan (1977) tie for 2nd place.
Bruggen (Decca box recording) gets the pedal point basses in the 1st movement coda (and finale) right IMO, with a very gnarly sound making them impossible to miss
08:19 try Chopin's Trio Op. 8 (a most contrived way to go from G minor in the 2nd subject back to G minor for theme) or even the Op. 35 Sonata (one of my teachers absolutely dreads it, and it makes less sense harmonically to return to the Doppio Movimento than to the Grave, from what is essentially an A-flat dominant 7th)
Fricsay was an AMAZING conductor of almost everything!
Fully agree with your selection, I own some of them, and try Casals' which I was not acquainted with. I've always felt that Beethoven incredibly were somewhat able to portrait the energy itself here, and enjoy the Allegro con Brío as a depicting of how the Big Bang could sound. The ones I should avoid: Norrington's (all of them), Currentzis, Nelsons --too cold-- and Dudamel's, which I suspect was in such hurry because he had to charge his car's parkimeter). Two version's I like very much too are Mackerras' and Ozawa's newest release with Saito Kanen's). I enjoy very much your inteligent and witty reviews and learn a lot of them. I'll keep listening. Regards from Mexico.
Thank you for chiming in!
Since you brought what to avoid. I would add two. Pletnev/Pentatone (I think DH mentioned this as an avoid)and Thielemann/VPO/Sony. Both are cases of pushing and pulling and it’s unbelievably obvious
Was very pleased that you mentioned the Bernstein Vienna version as a great 7th and even as the best Vienna 7th. I've always found this an exciting version, and it was the one I "imprinted" on, so I'm always wondering if I'm just biased. Was kind of surprised that it didn't make it on to your Beethoven "complete cycles" list, but perhaps, as I said, I'm biased, because I was blown away by this set ever since I first heard it on vinyl. Was a bit curious of what you thought of the Kubleik Vienna 7th, in his "different orchestra for each symphony set". I've not heard it for a long, long time, but it did make a very positive impression on the first go around.
The Kubelik Vienna Phil 7th is terrific. Love that one.
Hard to find: a recording where the conductor makes the fff dynamic marking in the coda of the finale a gradation up from the ff that precedes it. I've heard only a couple of performances where that happens...and one was a live radio performance. Sometimes the trumpets will help out there, but the timpani doesn't change. It's a real thrill for me to hear it as Beethoven wrote it: an outburst! (I'm wondering if that's the first time he used fff. I know he also has a spot in the 8th Symphony.)
I like and agree with your comment about the first movement expositional repeat. Another expositional repeat that irritates even more than this one in the first movement of Schubert’s “trout” quintet. In this case, it’s not so much the first ending itself that is problematic (it’s just a simple repeat without a separately composed first ending), but rather it is the fact that it goes all the way back to the beginning of the movement instead of 25th bar where the real first subject begins. If you think were being too persnickety about the Beethoven expositional repeat, then I have a really serious problem as this one drives me absolutely crazy! (Also, I can confirm that I am a crazy person because I think the Schubert is a better piece when the second and third movements are omitted, which never happens except when I listen to recordings as I simply skip those two tracks.)
Maybe Beethoven intended the first movement exposition repeat (or at least the repeated note at the start of it) to sound irritating -- see my main thread comment from one day ago.
Uncle Dave reviews Beethoven - if that's not a vital self recommendation then nothing is. I'll grab a beer and a pen, and my Ebay account stands ready - shoot !
no Carlos Kleiber 7th on Deutsche Grammophon?!? it is one of the best ever
No, it really isn't.
I love the Honneck 3/5/7. Great playing. Great sound. Wonderful approach, he voices some of the chords differently than most and you hear the pieces differently than the usual.
Järvi DKB he moves at a speed that I have no idea how he manages to keep it together and YES, Exciting as hell!!!!!
The play the SHIT out of it and it sounds amazing!
I like the Bernstein 7 better in New York than Vienna, there’s a youthful and vibrant quality in the earlier recording that’s lacking with the Vienna Phil.
Great vid
What was your first (great)experience with this symphony?do you remember?
Some really good picks here. Honeck/pittsburgh is great in the seventh. I do have a soft spot for Schmidt-Isserstedt/VPO from his Decca cycle but this has long been out of press.
Wonderful video Dave...it is remarkable how fresh sounding it all was in such hackneyed repertoire. Thank you very much. What are your thoughts on Masur and Konwitschny? And the Colin Davis RPO version? I did think his Staatskapelle Dresden version was a little stodgy. I am of course very much a repeat person.
I like Davis very much. Masur, not, Konwitschny, OK, but really not competitive.
What do you think of the Mackerras SCO version?
See my reviews of the Mackerras Beethoven cycles on ClassicsToday.com.
I have German as second language and we have a strong German farming community in Namibia and I can promise you, it is always Zell!!
In Hungarian, however, it is indeed Sell (ˈsɛl). But ... we don't care :-)
No, we don't.
I very much agree with your assessment of the balance in Karajan's recording.
It undermines the entire performance.
How come so many of your lists end with Szell? What do you think of the Reiner?
Uh oh, th new Currentzis recording of Beet 7 is out!!
Klemperer's allegretto remains very special.
Steinberg's 7th is my favourite symphony from his DG box
Glad someone mentioned Steinberg!
Yesterday I listened to Jarvi on my way to the doctor and Honeck on the way back. I love Jarvi - transparent, graceful, buoyant. You can hear everything, even the descending scales for the violins at the very end of the finale which are often obscured by the winds. OK he takes a slight piu mosso in the coda of the finale which I can live without; if Beethoven had wanted a piu mosso he could have written one. But I can't share your liking for Honeck. Very heavy-handed, overly accented, almost everything unremittingly loud. It's like reading a document where everything is bold-faced, underlined, and italicized all at once. I dislike his 5th even more, but that's for another day.
Hey, it's your dime! Thanks for listening,
The Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie is the only reason these tempi in his beethovens in general work. He tried to take his "interpretations" of doubling the Beethoven tempo elsewhere and it flopped. But I just love this ensemble
I plan to compare Dorati/LSO withn Dorati/RPO this weekend. But given the scarcity of the RPO on CD (only ever released as a one time Tower Japan special edition, long OOP, and extremely expensive used when available) should I post me personal assessment here, especially the assessment gives the RPO version high remarks? I do not want to by temptation cause anyone unwanted financial grief.
Don't worry. If it looks like it's going to be too painful I'll just delete the posting!
Thoughts on the Abbado/Rome version? I watched the video version of the 7th not long ago and was surprised how much I liked it, though quite fast--seemed even faster than Honeck in the finale. I know what you think of Abbado generally (at least his Berlin legacy), but wondering about this one in particular.
I think his Rome cycle was the best Beethoven he did. It's not a favorite, but it deserves respect.
Dear Mr. Hurwitz! I found myself returning to new Petrenko/Berlin recording. What is your opinion about his first steps there and recently issued mini box? Thanks!
I have not been impressed by their overpriced recordings, and until something astonishing comes along I believe they are trading on their reputation(s).
I like the new petrenko/Berlin recording better than the the other relatively recent high profile 7ths from sets like Nelsons and Chailly. He gets playing out of them that reminds you that it’s the Berlin Phil unlike Chailly who makes the gewandhaus sound like an underplaying itty bitty chamber orchestra trying to do a period approach.
I'm sorry - if Beethoven says repeat, you do the repeat! Besides, if I love the music the first time, I love hearing it again, however the transition might be or if it is a "verbatim" statement of what came before. I typically will not buy a cut version, since it was not the composer's intention, and I like it to reflect that. And I've never had Dave's reaction to the way it was done in this case in the first movement - not once in listening to this symphony for 50 years. Maybe I'm not as sophisticated a listener, but oh well, I'm not really terribly concerned about that interpretation.
Be careful when you say "composer's intention." In general, I agree with you, but sometimes repeat signs are perfunctory and if the realization sounds stupid then the question of what was actually intended is an open one. Brahms indicated repeats in all of his symphonies except the 4th, but also told us that repeats were not necessary once audiences knew the music. There are many examples of such things. We don't even know if Beethoven honored all of his own repeats in performance, or expected that they be honored. So by all means, if you like it that way, fine and good, but don't hold up the composer's "intentions" as justification for what is, after all, a perfectly legitimate personal preference.
I remember you gave almost all of Osmo Vanska’s Beethoven 10/10 ratings on ClassicsToday and haven’t seen any of them in your talks on Beethoven yet (correct me if you have). Are they not memorable enough to be featured here or are these performances just a level above?
Neither. I just haven't mentioned them. That's all, and there's no real reason. I stand by the initial recommendations. That's part of the point--there's just too much out there, period.
Vanska's 7th is one of my current favorites.
There's been a good bit of mention of Carlos Kleiber, especially his live 7th on Orfeo from Munich. I reviewed this a while ago for ClassicsToday.com, and for those interested, here is that review: www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12461/?search=1
Excellent video. Great you didn't went for the Kleiber Cliché. And it wouldn't be a Hurwitz video without a Szell recommendation
Oh, there are many without Szell recommendations, but in the basic German repertoire he was pretty hard to beat.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Bernstein version is magnificent! Thanks for the tip
One thing that consistently bothers me about most performances of the 7th is the sloppy ensemble of the very first chord, and here I have to say the Szell does it better than ANYONE; that first chord is a whiplash of precise ensemble that lifts me out of my chair every time I hear it! For the polar opposite, a scandalously bad mess, listen to any of the Furtwängler renditions.
The Brahms 3 in the Beecham box is exceptional. Light footed, fleet, un-Germanic.
I'm confused, Dave. I like Jordi Savall.playing 'early music' but I don't like his Beethoven, especially.no.9 that many people seem to rave about, although I find the last movement exciting (of course!) and the singing fine. One person wrote of no.7 that 'Beethoven played onearly instruments must have sounded exactly the way that Beethoven conducted it'
Comment please?
What is there to say? The remark is incredibly stupid on its face. As to Savall, there's no reason you have to like it, and whether you do or don't it has not special claim to authority or "authenticity," whatever that is.
Pink elephant: so so so surprised that you did not include Kleiber's with Vienna. Maybe Kleiber is not to your liking. I love Lenny's Vienna cycle. That was my first real exposure to the 7th.
You know it's all relative. Kleiber is very good, but I think you can do better. That's all.
This is probably a minority opinion, but I actually prefer Dohnanyi's on Telarc to Szell's (great as that recording is). To my ears, the playing on Dohnanyi's recording feels much more free and the phrasing feels more supple in the 3rd and 4th movements than on Szell's (with no loss in intensity).
You’re not alone. The 2, 3, 5, 7 and 9 from that set are phenomenal.
The 5/7 disc is absolutely stunning, Dohnanyi really has something to say musically in each symphony, and the sound is early digital Telarc perfection.
I actually love both of them. I'd probably pick Szell if I have to pick only one, but I totally agree that Dohnanyi's 7th is really great one. Especially the 4th movement!
With all due respect, I don't think Wagner was being silly. You aren't thinking of dance in its cosmic aspect. Think of the Hindu god Shiva, the Lord of the Dance, the god of the rhythm of all things, the rhythm of birth and life and death. This is what I hear in this symphony. The fourth movement really is like the creative, bacchanalian dance of a god.
Uh, OK.