The Elves Were Always Going to Lose the War of the Beard - Warhammer Fantasy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- In this video, I examine the war of the beard or the war of vengeance, that was fought between the high elves and dwarves. The argument I make is that the dwarves were always going to win it, making the entire thing even more pointless.
Ah yes, the War of the Beard.
Regardless of who was going to lose anyway, literally everyone agrees that Caledor was an idiot and deserves to be remembered as such.
Why was Caledor an idiot?
@@ianismantu6660 He shaved off the beards of some Dwarf ambassadors, which is on par with forcing a Jew to become a Nazi: ABSOLUTELY INSULTING. And this was when they were being polite in wanting a little explanation for why some elves were attacking Dwarf trade caravans.
@@ianismantu6660he also killed the son of the High King in a way that enraged all the Dawi and didnt thought that the war was a serious issue until many Asur colonies had already been destroyed
@@ianismantu6660He studiously looked into dwarven culture to find the _most insulting_ thing he could ever do them, and then he did it. In this case, he had every dwarf in his throne room shaved down to the bare skin. This is akin to spitting on the cross for Christians to them, because the length of their beards shows their experience and signifies the overall legacy of their clan.
By shaving them, he essentially robbed them of _all_ of their families honor, effectively ruining their lives to the point where death was preferable.
@@ianismantu6660after the atack of dark elves under false flag toward dwarf settlements the high king wanted explanations.
Since Kaledor didn't knew of the atacks and the dwarfs ignore the curent elf civil war he just insult them. The high king tryed to calm the situation thanks to is diplomats but phoenix king decided to shame them and shave their beard. The son of the high king who foolishly decided to go in person with a army to assert the cituation was slain in a bad way and then no more fuck was given by the dwarfs that went totaly full war on them.
Kaledor just went out of is way to be a dick and that was a very humbling experience for the high elves
Someone's positioning himself to be PancreasNoWork's mortal enemy with words like that.
We're enemies in the same way a gnoblar is an enemy to a chaos warrior.
Considering Pancreas' video on Malekith and the fact that he derides Caledor as the biggest idiot to have ever been named Phoenix King, don't expect Pancreas to have a fit over this one.
As someone who knew nothing about this war I am not surprised that Dwarves have bigger and better beards
Correct
Interesting video i see its triggered a few talking points. Made me go back and look at the source material. I still have the original WDs and the black Library books.
Few points i want to make is:
This war lasted 400+ years and at the start both races underestimated each other. This caused hugh casualties in the early years..
Both sides had forces in the millions, also the infertility problems of the later ages where none existent. The elves might have been able to have kids faster but dawi became adults faster.
Every publication of warhammer is written from the point of veiw of the race but in all tellings the elves lost more people.
The elves had the advantage at sea, air, plains and woodlands. Their forces being supported by large numbers of dragons, mages and magic weapons.
The dwarfs had the advantage in the Mountains, sieges both attacking and defensive. Also using the underway and tunnels to out positioned the elves many times.
Also there is the point that rune tech was at its peak. If you check the armylists several master runes where common in this time. Things like the powered up version of the anvil of doom and thrones of power where mounts for lords.
So this created a blance, with the elf army have access to dragons with magic casting, dragon knights on actual dragons. A surplus of enchanted weapons. The dwarfs on the other hand didnt really have the engineering tech of later dawi but the did have runes. Lots of runes to the point things that would have been considered lendary weapons in some factions are used by common captains.
The geomancey/terraforming magic you talked about has only ever been used by the old ones and slann of the 1st & 2nd generation. The high elves have no references to purposely casting this type of magic. At this time period for them to attempt this, they would have to first learn it then using dozens of mages to cast. If you look at other work in this setting these ritual castings take alot of time. The dwarfs wouldnt sit back for something like that.
So to look at the outcome, the Phoenix King dead, the original crown was taken. Most elven cities where burned to the ground. Dark Elves attacked, so a hasty retreat was sounded. Millions dead there cities abandoned and whoever never made it to the boats had to flee to the forests becoming the wood elves. So at the end the hugh de-population made it impossible to ever recover.
The dawi apart from the dead came off pretty lightly. No major loss of territory, honour reclaimed. If the they had been given a few hundred years to recover they would have been fine. Then the slan decided to adjust the planet and the skavens discovered warp nukes at the same time. Causing the time of woe, which left the dwarfs in the current state.
This is why both kingdoms are in such a sad state.
My next RPG character needs to be named "Hugh Casualties."
A point that you did not bring up is Rune magic. This war happened during the time when Rune magic was at its peak. Rune magic is probably the least explored out of all the magic systems in Fantasy. While we do see rune magic in modern Fantasy times the dwarves do not have access to their highest level of runes like they did during the War of the Beard.
To further illustrate this point we need to remember that the 2 most power weapons in all of Fantasy are Dwarf rune weapons, these being Ghalmaraz and the Axe of Grimnir respectively. These weapons either chose wielders who the weapons then lifted to godhood status or were destined to be gods. Either way these ancient rune weapons would allow the dwarves to wreck havoc among the elven forces and honeslty would have finally ground the elven military to a pulp. Obviously these demigods would be extremely rare but it only takes 1 to flip an entire campaign on its head.
The dwarven mastery of rune magic also allows them to cancel spells.
Look all I'm saying is that Elves have never been a force for good in the Warhammer settings. They made Slanesh in 40k and this after all. When amongst elves, beware yourselves.
I do think the high elves have been a force of good, but they're also directly responsible for a lot of problems.
Listen young one, im not saying you are boring.. But we party so hard, we create gods.
@@stephenlyon1358and then get soul tourtured for the rest of time by said god
@@Voxcast07 That's the price of admission to the best party in existance.
They didn't all participated in that orgie. Why does peoples keep making generalities and forget that the Craftworld Eldars and the Exodites literally abandonned their homeworlds because they were horrified of how depraved their brethren became and are not responsibles in any ways in the creation of Slaanesh ?
The Elves of FW are a force of good even if they made mistakes and poor decisions. They literally stand up to the demons and banished them back in the Chaos Realms instead of hiding underground like some other cowards.
I hate elves, so this is an absolute win
made that a core personality trait eh?
@@skeith1543 only the best personality trait
Hating a superior species!?🧝🏼♀️🌝
@@90skidcultist superior in what way? The average elf looks like they would die from a single punch from any decently strong human or dwarf, let alone an orc or minotaur
@@Ubertrollz69420 You mean the “wood Elves” that can jump well over 10 feet in the air? From tree to tree? Or the “Dark Elves” that would gladly wrestle you down, before chaining you up for slave labor? Or the objective superior, “High Elf”, that will always best you in kind of martial arts. Man strength isn’t feared, it’s mocked🤡🤣. 🧝🏼♀️🧝🏼♂️🪄>🙎🏻♀️🙎🏻♂️
I mean in a war of beards, elves always lose. They ain't even got chest hair I bet.
What did those knife ears expect!
Even humans know the superiority of the Dawi and the weekends of the elves.
One does not simply fuck with the dwarves 💯🔥
They didn't start the war of the beard, but they sure as hell ended it.
another great vid keep it up.
Another banger
0:14 I wouldn't say invariably. They seems to get along rather well in some settings. Or at least, there is no ancient racial hatred.
5:06 It's sad to think how all this could have been avoided if elves and dwarves worked together to investigate the case. And if Caledor was less of a pompous idiot and Gortrek less susceptible.
8:51 The Dwarves didn't demand any explanations, they accused the Asurs of something they actually didn't do and demanded compensations, not explanations. And why is the fault of one elf rejected on all of his specie?
Hello, very nice video and it helped me relax. Thank you :)
But just a few points.
1st: Slow down with your speech, nobody is forcing to read your own script.
Just concetrate, relax and maybe imagine like you are talking to a child or someone who cant really speak english.
Maybe you are not a native speaker, which I understand and know that one of coping mechanisms is speaking fast so that words you pronounce are not heard all that well if you pronounce them in wrong way… or you are just stressed :/
2nd: The mic quality could be improved, i hear some buzz and basses. I can hear certain parts where you tried improving it with editing, but unsuccessfully. Overall still a good job with editing, but you can’t overcome hardware/peripheries.
Thanks. I don't have the best living situation for recording the videos so I apologise for the issues. I'm trying to get better at audio stuff so I'm hoping that future stuff will be improved.
Total Elgi Death.
In warhammer 3 I despise Elves in all their forms and take pleasure in destroying their cities, especially the Wood Elves' forests. I would tolerate the Dark Elves if they weren't evil and always declaring war on me, and it also feels so satisfying to beat bad guys.
So. couple things.
First, the dwarfs never truly encountered the full might of ulthuan. As stated in the War of vengeance books and the army books "the dwarfs had thought the Elven cities they had encountered were the height of Elven power, they did not know they had only encountered the Least of the Elves cities.'
Second: Dragons. As per the war of vengeance books, Ulthuan was toting high numbers of Star dragons during this time period and the Dwarfs foolishly thought they knew what a dragon could amount too. The Monsters the Elves brought to bear were practically unstoppable and excessive planning and force had to be brought to bear to kill but one of them.
When two or more star dragons worked in concert, they were a force of power the dwarf had no answer too. Entire armies were routed by 2 or 3 dragons alone. The Elves ruined their chances here as well. When Imaladrik was slain, the dragons vowed vengeance against the dwarf as imaladrik was a kindred spirit they all regarded as a leader of their kind. However desperation led the elves to try enslaving Old world dragons to bolster their forces which caused the Dragons of Ulthian to leave in disgust. Imaladri kwas also the leading cause of peace of reconciliation among the Elves. the only voice of reason and he was slain by dwarfs which caused the war to get really nasty.
Third. The dwarfs took so much damage just fighting off the colonies of the elves, that they were promptly overwhelmed by the various other forces that sought their destruction. Ulthuan on the other hand fended off another invasion by malekith shortly afterwards. Ulthuan is still a whole nation. he dwarfs have been permanently shattered. Had Malekith not invaded, Ulthuan was gearing up for a full scale invasion of the dwarf holds.
Forth: Magic. It was magic that destroyed the dwarfs. Lizardmen moved mountain ranged that ripped open the Dwarf holds. The Elves have access to the same magic and, no great number of wizards had been deployed to the war effort by any records that can be read about. As such the dwarfs were very much in danger of the Elves coming and smashing through their holds.
Thus we can draw a very different conclusion to yours based on facts taken from the lore and books written by the time period. The Dwarfs were to lose had it continued.
Thanks for the comment. I disagree :)
@@hardlyheroic114 Sorry bud, the facts are laid out pretty clear in the lore. and the book series that covers it.
I dunno, from the sounds of it the elves' arrogance thrice damned them out of any place of honor they claim. The xenophobic pride of their king started the war, their belief in their superiority over old world dragons drove their allies from them, and delusions of martial grandeur saw their king killed in single combat despite all the advantages you listed. They were played for fools in an obvious ruse, and still have the gall it belittle the people they lost too. Sounds to me like we should treat any elven accounts of their history as OBVIOUS propaganda.
Anyways, Rock and Stone
even with this, you also have to remember the war really fucked both over, the dwarfs had been cracked and battered from the war, but the elves had the even worse problem of gaining ANOTHER enemy. the dwarfs becoming their enemy all of a sudden made long term existence on the mainland old world untenable, and gave the high elves yet another enemy to have to fight, starting the slow stagnation of the elves to the current (pre end times) state of being very powerful but unable to really change the setting due to being attacked on just so many fronts, the same way the imperium of man is in warhammer 40k.
had the war not happened (or at least some form of peace deal created halfway in, decreasing tensions between the races) than the elves may have had better luck in stopping things other things happening, and might have had more time and resources to strengthen the winds of magic or come up with a way to permanently stop chaos from spreading from the poles
the history of the high elves in warhammer in one crisis after another, being unable to really solve bigger long term problems because they are either too isolated or are already stretched to thin to really help. if the elves had kept the dragons on their good side by not getting too desperate in the war, and also kept certain foothold in the new world to strength resources and get more information about threats, than who knows if the warhammer world might be much better off.
The dwarves were producing proto airships. Yes, they stopped after the primary engineer, I forget his name at the moment, was killed by an explosion but to me at least because of the desperation the dwarves were facing they produced a weapon that could slay the dragons. When the airships flew to save the hill dwarf cities they did kill I think 2 out of the 3 dragons and their riders while taking loses that were manageable had the armies of the hill dwarves not been underneath the battle. The battle was also so devastating because of the forces of Tzeentch adding to the explosions during the battle and what happened to the engineer. If the dwarves were to mass produce those airships I believe that they would have been able to counter the threat the dragons of Ulthuan posed if not in quality then in pure numbers as they took nearly equal casualties of 3-4 airships to 2 dragons.
Also, during one of the sieges of Tor Eliesee, I don't think I spelled that right, the dwarves did create armor that could resist dragon fire and had created a trap for any dragons that went in to kill them with claws.
Also about your point in magic, the Slann are leagues above most mages, even elf ones, and the dwarves could not have known that they were about to move the entire continent. The mages sent to fight could be countered by the runesmiths of the dwarves who negated the winds of magic to a significant degree. Liandra fought against them multiple times and does state that it is hard to cast spells when the runesmiths are trying to negate her magic. While also the ironbreakers do have armor that is resistant to magic and proven effective during the siege of Barak Varr in the tunnels. I do admit it would not be good against a gifted mage but there are only so many of those in Ulthuan.
(Forgive me if my memory is a little hazy I haven't read the books in about a year)
Technically there were no winners in the War of the Beard. The dwarves simply stopped fighting after the death of King Kaledor, considering their grudge avenged, and the elves left because of the druchii invasion of Ulthuan. In fact, both factions have lost their positions in the Old World.
In the sense that there was a peace treaty signed, no. But if you look at the war goals of each side, the Elves never assailed the Dwarven Kingdoms and lost pretty much all of their colonies in the old world. The major losses to dwarven territory, occur afterwards at the hands of the orcs and goblins and skaven.
I would argue that a dwarf avenging a grudge, is proof enough to them that they won the war.
@@hardlyheroic114 Elves lost pretty much all of their colonies but not because this colonies were occupied or destroyed by Dwarfs. New Phoenix King Caradryel deliberately evacuted the elven territories in the Old World in order to bolster the Ulthuan strength in the face of the new naggarothi invasion. After the fourteenth siege of Tor Alessi Elves still possessed a considerable amount of power in the Old World and the possibility to increas their war potential with reinforcements from Ulthuan, they even planned the direct siege of Karaz-a-Karak. So they were not crushed or driven off the Old World.
@@user-ix6pc5gd7o I think we have a completely different interpretation of events.
They absolutely could not siege Karaz-a-Karak. There's no version of reality where they don't drown in a river of blood bashing their heads against that fortress.
The total collapse of the high elven presence in the old world is because their armies were already so devastated in the war. If they were winning decisively, they'd have been able to fight that war on two fronts. Both sides were paying heavily for the war but only one side was fighting a war overseas.
They were not having an easy time. They wouldn't have given up the Old World if they had the ability to hold it. Their territory was theirs to lose; the dwarves were never in danger of losing any territory of their own.
@@hardlyheroic114 well I'm completely agree with that, I just pointed out the fact that such plans were considered, although were rejected later.
Yes, of course, the elven armies suffered enormous damage in the war, and their greatly reduced combat effectiveness became one of the reasons for the evacuation of the colonies - these armies could no longer ensure their safety. The damage that the dwarves suffered during the war was also the reason why they began to lose their internal territories - their weakened armies were unable to hold back the onslaught of the orks, goblins and skaven.
The elves lost their territories in the Old World after the end of the active phase of warfare due to the weakened state of their armed forces and under the pressure of external factors - just like the dwarfes started to lose their positions to the greenskins onslaught after the war because their war potential was hardly damaged.
eh...
I hate Elves
I hate elves