The only problem I have personally is after I collect all 5 deep sights and then max the gun out to get the rolls I want, I just get burnt out and sick of using the weapon entirely.
LITERALLY every weapon I’ve grinded I got bored of the weapon from grinding it. They need to make it more lenient it rly isn’t that huge of an advantage
Would be nice if maybe if you had a crafted weapon and then got another red frame version to drop, you could infuse the new red frame into your crafted version to unlock the perks from the red frame/give it some exp?
I got burnt out of my calus mini tool immediately after crafting it. Farming fucking patrol was boring as shit and when I saw the amount of time I'd have to spend on shuro chi and was like "hell no"
The only weapon that I like MORE from grinding it to 30 (I love those silly mementos) is Sweet Sorrow. Every other one got vaulted once I could apply the special shader.
One of the ideas that I imagined might go into weapon crafting is as a partial reliever of vault space. Bungie has expressed that just changing your vault number is much more complicated than it seems, and they have only been able to work out temporary increases so far. I thought that weapon crafting might serve as a means of cutting down the fat in your vault. Instead of having to hold 3-4 rolls in anticipation for future sandbox changes or a new build that could use a certain perk, you can just have the one crafted weapon in your inventory capable of being any of the rolls you previously would have hoarded. If Bungie plans to use it for this though, then they either need to reduce the cost of switching perks, or make it so that you can craft multiple of the same weapon without releveling.
yes, level up the PATTERN, not the weapon *edit* actually that could also alleviate the issue of continuing to get red borders after a pattern unlock. Make it so completing more red borders contributes to upgrading that pattern. Sure, you'll still get beyond level 20 where additional levels don't really matter, but it does give it some more life.
Yeah I think everyone expected that to be the case, since it was a really easy and obvious solution to the vault space issue. Unfortunately for the community freely swapping perks isn’t enough of a Skinner box
@@sunnydaze905 I'll kinda contest this for the sake of questioning whether it's really worth the extra work to change it. How many of us, having already unlocked the pattern and learning that some new perk combo is the meta *wouldn't* toss aside our current leveled roll or craft a new version and grind it up to get access to those perks? Having the option alone is already pretty great, when you think about it, vs what it used to be where the weapon just rotated out and was now unobtainable. Essentially we've already future-proofed ourselves by unlocking the pattern, it'll just take a day's grind tops to get it where it needs to be. The game's fundamental gameplay loop is to play game to get loot to play game better to get better loot, how much do we really gain by shorting that by perpetually having access to the perfectly rolled weapon in a given archetype at the drop of a hat?
@@Avoncarstien How much we gain is anecdotal. It's really just how much Bungie respects our time. Imagine you pull an exotic weapon from your vault that you deleted due to space issues, and every time you did that you had to re-do the kills for the catalyst. Kinda the same argument. Would you like that? It's just playing the game after all..
Compared to last season, I’m way more relaxed on crafting. The only weapons I was in a hurry for were the Mini-Tool and Drang for maximum Incandescent. I am slightly concerned about the last season of an expansion, though.
yes, like, is there a way to get all the seasonal weapons from past seasons when the new dlc comes?? they usually disappear in some kind of "world loot pool". imagine trying to get a red frame then...
I'm literally just doing them all cause I'm a triumph goblin. Not interested in anything but Mini tool and Austringer, personally. I just like finishing all seasonal triumphs within that given season. Once season 18 drops, I don't want to worry about getting old patterns.
Yeah, moving forward I'd like to see them maybe add a random selection of guaranteed DS weapons from vaulted seasons to Xur's inventory. Let catch-uppers work toward crafting stuff they might otherwise miss once Lightfall rolls around
I do really love the idea of having all base perks unlocked when you initially craft a weapon. Having to use a terrible roll once you finally get to craft whatever you’re chasing really sucks. Being able to start w/ a solid base version of what you want would really help me enjoy the long leveling process
I think you should be able to level up a gun by using any version of that gun, and if you craft a copy of that gun, it should automatically be at that level
I've been saying the second part of your comment since this crap started. It irks me that if I want another crafted copy of a certain gun, I have to level it up after having already done it once.
Honestly, I've had a similar take in regards to weapon crafting. I feel it can generate burnout faster in players who feel like they need to rush to get exactly what they want on a weapon. Tbh, I'm using this season to relax and play other games because I really don't feel as much urgency to get the weapon patterns and have them fully crafted right away.
Yep and this is the problem with a lot of destiny players impatience they just want the godroll handed to them which isn't gonna happen you either get lucky with drops or you spend time getting the pattern and levelling the gun so you can craft the perks you want it's completely fair
Leveling up specials should be tuned separately from primary weapons they have less ammo and most aren’t made for just killing trash enemies, snipers and fusions mostly but shotguns to. It feels like to level them you just have to leave them equipped for everything you do
Ya there is not too much of a problem with heavies but snipers and bows. You need so many kills for a weapon that can't do group add clear most of the time. Without the tether trick at shuro chi it would take over 2h to get a thoughtless to level 20.
1000% agree, it could be based on how many hits you get/damage dealt but definitely needs a change. Otherwise the best way to level it is doing activities with it equipped at the end for the bonus.
imagine if you got bonus to lvl by hiting headshots with snipers or dealing dmg with heavies, or geting 2 or more kills with fusions/shotguns and special ammo gls
I’m pretty fine with most parts of the system right now, but for me a change I’d really like to see is the ability to unlock a second row of perks on a crafted gun. Just for cases like say, Deliverance where I’m very interested in both a PvE and PvP roll. It would save me from having to have multiple copies of the gun for each roll. (Whether both are crafted or one is just an RNG drop) I honestly wouldn’t mind the cost to switch perks each time if I could just have options to switch on the fly. Even if unlocking that second row required reaching some high level on the weapon like 30, it would solve a lot of my issues with the system since I was the most excited about the system saving me vault space.
Yeah, I think being able to craft a weapon with 2 picks in each column would negate any complaint I could reasonably attempt to level at the current crafting system; resource cost, grind time, perks not permanently unlocked... it's all kinda moot if you've got *some* amount of ability to flex a couple of options. It's part of what makes adept weapons so good, 1 weapon can theoretically take the place of 4 others just in terms of column 3/4 perks, let alone being able to chose your MW and col 1/2.
Yeah I agree I hate wanting a pve and pvp roll for a gun so I have to get two of them and constantly swap between all my characters and my vault just for the occasion
I like that crafting is a bit of an answer to the “sunsetting” problem with seasonal weapons leaving every year. Now you can earn the weapon and make it again later. If they buff/nerf some perks so now your roll is garbage or you want a better one, you can change the roll. I definitely agree with your take though. I don’t feel a need to grind out red borders or sit for hours in GOA leveling up a weapon since that’ll just happen naturally over time. It is annoying that you have to start with a garbage roll, but I’ll just throw it on and do strikes or whatever since you can just blow through those like it’s nothing
Exactly, Ill just throw it on and play some activities, do some bounties, seasonal challenges, whatever and just level it casually in the background. Definitely the fastest and more engaging way of leveling a gun as opposed to shooting the same thrall for 4 hours straight
I’ve been leveling the WQ sidearm for a while now (I love sidearms) and I’ve just been casually using it in raids and strikes and wherever the hell and I’m having a great time. Reminds me of Breachlight, and I can’t wait to get a similar roll my old Breachlight has. I basically only use Suro Chi for weapons I either REALLY WANT LEVELED FAST (like Forebearance after a bit playing around with it and realizing it would work great in my void Hunter playstyle) or for heavies like Cataclysmic that I really want the upgraded perks on, since Suro Chi lets me turn glimmer and legendary shards into heavy ammo via flags which generally makes the leveling process a lot less painful. I just throw on a podcast and vibe on deadfall tether and go from there
@@Subsistence69 the only small complaint i have is that i have to use the level 1 shit roll to get something like 1500 kills just to get to the level with the perks i want even after crafting. but that's fine, i got most of the god-rolls of the opulent weapons before i can get to 5 patterns.
@@jaywu4804 i think *a* solution (even if probably a not feasible one for bungie or *maybe* even not the best for us) would be make crafting level be part of every gun with the same name and not only the crafted one. like this you could level your crafted weapon while using a better random rolled version until you are able to craft what you want on your crafted gun. I know bungie said that like this we could "try" other perks but a) nobody "tries" perks on crafted guns because its still pretty costy to just swap every level and b) most people playing now for 2+ years now know what kind of perks they prefer and being forced to play a perk i hate wont make me like or appreciate that perk anymore
Thank you! I feel this is a rational and reasonable way to look at crafting. I do hope that they allow us to slot in perks at a reduced cost if we have already slotted those perks in that weapon before so I can reasonably switch between perks if I've paid the cost upfront.
I love the concept of weapon crafting for two reasons: 1 - I have a notoriusly bad RNG (it's a running joke in my clan) so this system eases some of the frustration of grinding, because in the end I will eventually build the roll that I want and suits my playstyle. 2 - Newcomers can build a decent arsenal: a really good friend came back to the game one season ago and crafting guarantees (again, eventually) that she can have guns to tackle any actitvity in the game. We don't want another "combat style" mods situation, which is super unfriedly to new players and people who take a rest from the game. All the points of the video are pretty valid and I have the same opinion, mostly. The most important thing it's people need to chill the f out and stop trying to craft every single weapon in the first two weeks of a season. Good work as always, Mr. Trv.
Any advantage given by a "godroll weapon" shouldn't be locked behind RNG. Because statistically, one could NEVER see it drop in any reasonable amount of time, while the guy who is whooping your ass got it on his first drop. Now, if godrolls are given due to time invested, spending the time to level items up, farm materials, you should be given what you want.
holy cow the combat mod situation >_> Ada needs a look or a Xur-style "here's one mod you don't have a week" style approach, because IMO mods gatekeep returning players far more than godroll weapons (exotics have a monopoly on weapon gatekeeping ;) ) Edit to address the tail end of OP's post: Yeah, the game is designed to have a lifespan, if you're complaining about burning out trying to do 100% of the content in the first week or two....that's kind of on you :/
@@Avoncarstien the mod situation has gotten worse especially after element 3.0 changes because everything is tied so tightly together, from subclass aspects to fragments to CWL mods and Well mods. missing one of them for a build could break it entirely (think heavy handed for 50% melee energy refund)
I’ve crafted almost all weapons from both seasons and just completed crafting my last raid weapon. I do actually use a lot of them. As a player returning to the game after not playing since vanilla d2, it’s really helped me fill the void in my weapon choices. If I had a lot weapons from prior seasons, I imagine I’d probably feel the same as you and wouldn’t be engaging in it as much and would use it as a back up. I’m enjoying the guaranteed god roll ‘catch up’ mechanic. My only real annoyance is maybe neutral element cap and the amount of time to take to level a weapon. I wouldn’t mind leveling up multiple copies of weapon if it was just a bit easier. Maybe give just a bit more level xp on activity completion or something. Generally very happy with the system though. I dislike having to watch every roll that drops. I knew I was going to craft everything in the raid so I didn’t bother checking a single roll and turned it all into alloy.
@@pootisspencer5492 I have multiple master dungeon clears, and my conquerors title, along with the new dungeon title that just came out... no it's not a skill issue it's an rng issue... bungie even addressed that the drop rate of red borders last season was bad so they increased the rates this season
I agree with most of your points, I feel like a lot of the frustration that we've seen in regards to crafting is down to people being inpatient and wanting everything instantly. That said I do feel like Bungie could make it easier to level up guns once they're crafted, shortening the grind by 10-15% would be nice.
It should flow better if you have a weapon equipped during a strike you should get xp from kills and completions as well as xp from bounties you are doing whilst you are doing strikes. More ways to earn xp helps it flow with whatever you are doing. As opposed to firing up shuro chi for a couple of hours.
@@Predatalien8859 I don't really do normal strikes or shuro chi. The rolls that I want are mainly for pvp but it's a grind trying to use an a** level one roll against dmts, god rolled pulses and last words in control..
Leveling up guns just feels terrible. If I could just use materials to use those perks now then I would. Instead of grinding arbitrary activities using the worst version of the gun.
This video hits it right on the head. Just getting the patterns casually and through focusing is how I enjoy it. Maybe one or two of the guns I get first to level up but that’s it. Weapon crafting is rng safety. Giving us more freedom to do the activities we enjoy
The fact that I can craft a gun into what I want when I want is amazingly cool. The red label grind is a bit long and should be shortened some without taking the chase out of it. I feel once you get a weapon to level 20 there should be a dramatically decreased cost to changing the perks on it. There should be a reward for the time invested in a weapon.
Bungie intended the system to work in the background like he said at the beginning. It’s not meant to be a grind, because you are meant to just get the red weapons over time. Red borders are fine imo because I’ve been able to get the 4/5 or 5/5 god roll before getting the craftable version so far on most of the weapons this season.
It's so nice to finally hear someone sane talk about weapon crafting. Ever since it came out I've seen people nonstop treating the system like it needs to give them their patterns immediately so they can craft a literal perfect copy of the weapon and then run over to Shuro Chi or Grasp of Avarice or whatever and power-level it to 20 before the season's even a quarter over, and it's been driving me nuts. You're absolutely right: It's a failsafe. It's a long-term goal. It's not a replacement for random drops. If you want to do literally everything there is to do in this game, you're going to have to spend a lot of time on it.
I don't understand the "issue" that all future drops of a crafted weapon are worthless. That's literally the point, so we don't have to keep 5 copies of a single weapon or wait 2 years (in my case) to get the one roll you've been waiting for. This game has far too much RNG and this one system isn't going to kill the grind and Bungie knows that which is why not every weapon is craftable.
Tbf… I think the complaint is basically that you end up with more “blue garbage” in your inventory and postmaster. Getting worthless loot is an annoyance, even if it’s “worth it” to also be able to craft god-rolls.
And this "issue" applies to every gun in the game once you get the god roll you want unless you're one of the few people who want multiple god rolls of the same weapon. It's such a small and meaningless complaint because it's just how the game is with everything in it.
exactly bro. i cant understand people saying they got burned out after the grind. in my case the weapons got so much better to use with my desired perks. plus crafting it is optional like in the case of forbearance. i got ambitious and chain reac very early. this means that since i was blessed with a god roll i dont have to craft one anymore. but for other people who cant seem to get it crafting will be their savior. I prefer crafting because the best guns should be available to everyone. how you make use of it separates the people who can speedrun or are pvp gods from the ordinary players
I think what my man was trying to say around like 1:15 was that the drops for craftable weapons being useless is more of the fact that once you get all 5 or so deep sight weapons you craft and your done, but you keep getting drops, which are not good, no more calus mini balls, beloved please, opulent keys, calus mini balls. The problem is not “oh I don’t want this to drop I want this” it’s more stuff on the loot table that provides 0 purpose once you craft. Deep sight weapons you need to collect should be more of a checklist type deal that is one and done, once you get all 5 mini balls that guaranteed deep sight weapon is something you NEED not more mini balls, too many :(. And that whole you need deepsight weapons for mats is dumb dumb stupid just put the mats like everywhere like glimmer balance it better than glimmer ok thanks bye never commenting again
I just hate that they made “enhanced” traits a thing. Weapon crafting should allow you to essentially freely swap the traits after leveling and unlocking them, so the good roll you get doesn’t get outshined (even by a small margin) immediately by a crafted roll. Then I’d completely agree that it should be a back up, or a way to give you a perfect roll that you haven’t had yet.
then the problem becomes if you manage to get a good weapon to drop and it's either 5/5 or you're happy with it, weapon crafting becomes redundant for that weapon at all, and there's no more reason to care about it
@@onebraincell-q9f would make it more redundant, bungie wants people to feel a reason to go out and craft the weapons over gr8nding different rolls like usual
@@decsperry i have to disagree. I do think Weapon Crafting to be more of a backup plan. A possibility to give you the roll, if your rng is just too aweful. Kind of like a bad luck protection. Enhanced Perks kind of ruin it for me in that case. I also dont think bungie intends to just make crafting the main way of achieving a good weapon, since random rolls are a big part of what makes the grind exciting
@@decsperry One of crafting's long-term pro's is being able to reshape your weapon, so while it's niche there's room there to argue that getting the pattern for a gun you particularly like is probably somewhat worth it even if you got the 5/5 already, just in case a balance patch hits the perks on it or buffs something else in it's pool you're interested in trying.
Do you guys remember in D1 when we had to literally unlock the perks of a gun by just playing the game and getting experience? I think the red boarder should just be an indicator that it can be crafted, and that's all you need. Let the drop rate for a red boarder gun be much lower, but only require that one gun to crafted. Then you'd need to rank up the gun like we do now, except maybe similar to that D1 unlock system I mentioned earlier. Once fully unlocked, THEN it can be crafted. Once crafted, the gun would need to have its perks that were newly craftedb unlocked again. I feel this way it makes the grind much more bearable, and would be exciting to get that red boarder as you now have a craft able gun, but also maybe you would have gotten a god roll drop even before you get that red boarder.
Bad take since this means they would have to remove almost all forms of guaranteed weekly deepsights which is the only thing that makes deepsight grinding bearable for people with lives irl.
@@akurei4532 that is a good point. However like Datto said, crafting isn't supposed to be a core peice of game play, just a bonus. Casual players will find no difference to game play while committed players actually have something to grind for.
This actually solves one of the issues Bungie has been looking at recently: catching up new players to veterans. This allows them at least a few god roll weapons nearly out of the gate. To make or better, I would almost say to have a weapon set (2-3 weapons for each slot) that are just unlocked from the start, The Enigma being the first in that list. Make them not as good as they can be, but good enough to "compete" with
Exactly. Things like the Hakke shotgun for pvp or Palmyra for pve are great because they're easy for new players to get their hands on and work into god rolls.
Your take on crafting is EXACTLY how I've felt. People have been going on about burnout from running from chest to chest to chest to get the MOST optimal way of getting Opulent keys. And I've never quite wrapped my head around it.
Yah man. I agree. I happen to be one of those players because I actually enjoy the loop of trying to slay and flow through the Leviathan like a force of nature :-) Also I only game a couple hours a week.
I vibe with a lot of what's being said here, my only real issue with crafting is how expensive it is to switch from one enhanced perk to another. To Datto's point, I also usually know what perks I want before I enhance them. But what if perks get better/worse down the line and I want to go back to an old setup? I'd have to pay the steep cost all over again. This reminds me a lot of how changing the element of Masterwork Armor used to be before they made the excellent change to that system. I'd honestly like a similar (not identical) approach with enhanced perks. Once I spend the time and expensive resources to get an enhanced perk unlocked, let me go back to it later for a reduced cost.
Once you've unlocked a perk, it should be a permanent unlock in the perk node of your weapon. Instead of crafting a PvE and pvp god roll, you could simply craft 1 weapon that can swap between PvE and pvp perks
Even if they didn't want to give every perk available to swap between free from a visit to The Lure (after spending enough resources to get to that point), having crafting allow for 2 perk rows would be nice. Potentially an unlock after hitting like level 20 or something.
Yeah, I had this reaction to Tassi's article this morning. Crafting hasn't seriously changed the way I engage with the game. It shifts the chase to those red borders and makes it easier to decide what to dismantle, but I don't dismantle everything. In the process of that chase, I save the guns that are close to what I will eventually craft. Like, I've barely gotten any Mini-tool drops, but I saved one that came with Incandescent. There are some improvements they could make, and I look forward to that, but Crafting continues to be something that I am happy is in the game now. One of the fixes is something you touched on. I think all regular perks should be unlocked prior to unlocking enhanced versions so that I can at least make the gun I want by level 6 or 7 or whatever. Enhancing those perks can come later, given time and mats. The other is just that I don't think every pattern should need 5 frames. It was that way in Witch Queen and for some reason they decided that the chase this season needed some extra padding. Like, the big stasis rocket launcher should not need as much investment as an Austringer or Beloved, yeah? Beyond that, I'm sure they're gathering feedback and obviously they're playing the game, too. Crafting is good, and it will get better.
I HAVE changed the way I play post-crafting: I will go out of my way to get red-borders of guns I have little interest in now but might need later (perk/archetype buffs, anti-Champion mods etc); a bit of grind now will save a lot of grind in future. My Ragnhild-D has ~5 levels' worth of kills, but is sitting at level 15 because it had backseated many a Strike/Cruible/Gambit match where I've never swapped off my Monarche (Nezarec Warlock weapon of choice), and should shotguns become meta (in PvE) for any reason, it's there and ready with my preferred roll.
I agree with lot of this. Weapon crafting at its core serves as bad luck protection. Even if I get a semi decent rolled weapon with the perks I want, I don’t bother crafting. If the weapon isn’t fun to use, I don’t level it. Leveling is such a boring grind, and I can’t help but feel that everyone overrates enhanced perks. Crafting is a good system, but I don’t find myself being pulled in to craft and level dozens of weapons
I feel like the issue with craftable weapons comes from the fact that this whole season revolves ENTIRELY around crafting. The leviathan exists solely as a gameplay loop to unlock craftables. You run containment, to get bound presence and keys to get red borders so you can go do a sever to go grind another set of red borders. It doesn't really have anything outside of that. So having those red borders have terrible drop rates feels bad because it's the only tangible progress you can look at, and I say this as a person with every craftable weapon minus the dungeon ones done this season. Once i finished crafting the last weapon, containment was dead to me minus story requirements.
What? I haven't crafted a single weapon this season and have been playing several hours a week. Most seasons have an activity you do to get an objective done, then don't touch it.
It’s definitely not around crafting. It’s around loot, just like every other season has been so far. The deepsight drops are bonus like datto said. It’s a extra background bonus you get while getting loot
@@kylelwsn correct. But this season it's the ONLY thing they added. The leviathan is straight up the only thing haunted added, as the dungeon is sold separately. And it exists as a giant red border loop. Even if you say "well containment is the portion of the leviathan you ignore when your done weapon crafting", then what else is there to do? Kill random ads in a patrol space and occasionally kill powerful nightmares? There aren't public events, and the powerful nightmares are just another way to farm opulent keys and red borders outside of doing them each once for a triumph. And severs have bad loot unless you get a bound presence, or have the high stat armor upgrade that applies *checks notes* once per week. Unlike expunge during season of the splicer that dropped high stat armor every time.
Honestly I've really come around on weapon crafting. I love how my crafted weapons feel like my own, and putting all that time into it also increases my personal connection to the weapons. Also, it's just more stuff to do in Destiny, and that sounds great to me
Pretty sure the only weapon I've actively sought crafting for is Explosive Personality, and that was just because a month of farming gave me a bunch of red borders but no rolls with Auto Loading Holster.
Thanks for this confirmation. I just needed someone to make a video about this. I feel the same way. There are a few weapons like Mini Tool and Palmyra that I want crafted so I can change perks if/when needed. But the rest can go strait to Shard Town. I crafted all the Witch Queen weapons to get the exotic glaive, and since then, I have done very little crafting. I may do Austringer when I get the pattern, but I already have an Outlaw/Rampage one that I LOVE. Don't see that being worth the time invested. Leveling up weapons should be a lot easier than it is. I think if you got a little weapon XP from the non-crafted versions of that that counted TOWARD your crafted one, that would be another way to take some of the pressure and time investment away. This needed to be said. Well done, Datto.
My personal take on crafting has actually been a mix: each season has had one or two weapons I really want over the others (Insidious and Taradiddle last season, Hollow Denial this season) and the rest are just filler. I zone in on my favorites, build them, and slowly progress the others at my own pace. Most do wind up in my Vault unused, but the ones that don't are personal favorites.
All I wanted from vog was the void praetorian foil adept. Didn’t even have the gun. All I wanted this season is the void epicurean but it’s now locked behind an impossible rng. What does bungie have against void fusions? That’s all I’ve been wanting for a while. Have about 40 of the first boss clears about 20 of the final boss and only 2 red bars to show for it. Gave up
If anything the red border chase was slightly LESS grindy than I expected crafting would end up being. As Datto said you are making YOUR PERFECT ROLL and with how time investments can be for getting that with a default gun taking many hours or days (or not ever dropping ever) I really think crafting is a pretty easy and forgiving grind. Sure you may go days without a red drop but if you play the content enough you are guaranteed to get the full pattern after a certain amount of resets and there is no rng for that.
"Get red borders as a part of natural play". 100% the truth, I just finished my first red frame of the season this week and it's weird to me seeing everyone so stressed out when we have plenty of time.
You do realize that by the time you get that god roll crafted "naturally", the season would be almost over and the seasonal mods that made the weapon feel great are already leaving. The sooner you achieve something the more time you have in the season to utilize it. That goes for everything in the game, whether weapons or power levels.
Thank you for this video. I’ve long felt the exact same way as you stated in this video about crafting. My only issue is that the dungeon craftable weapons should be tied to triumphs or some type of currency system (I.e., spoils for raid weps) so that it’s not painful repeat farming for pure red border RNG. I like that all other craftable weapons had an, albeit long sometimes, guaranteed end point to get the pattern.
I just wish there was more thought put into enhanced perks. Some are nice, like incandescent, but WAY too many only add +4 to a random stat, or add +1 to reserves, or add literally ONE second to time-based perks (OFA only increases from 11 to 12 seconds). I get that bungie is afraid of power creep, but most of the enhanced perks just aren't worth the time and resource investment.
I feel like i grind out double enhanced perks on my crafted weapons solely to see the yellow border around the gun rather than the added effects, since it wont have it if you craft it with regular perks.
I don’t think enhanced perks are meant to be something you specifically grind for, they’re more of just a minor bonus for the people that do decide to put a lot of time into a weapon. Enhanced perks are supposed to be very minor because otherwise they would render non-craftable weapons completely obsolete and Bungie doesn’t want that.
@@sandwichdude97 And on top of that this season they're very easy to get. Just running containment a handful of times will get you 2 ascendant alloy which use to be the only hard thing to get for enhanced perks. Since enhanced perks are so easy to get from just using the weapon and playing the game it makes sense they're a minor reward with small bonuses.
I enjoy playing crucible so this helps me get deepsight: play a match with your preferred loudout and then before match ends swap weapons. You’d get 40% from match completion.
From the second Bungie revealed crafting and especially once it was actually in the game and we got our hands on it, I immediately put in my mind "this is supposed to be a long-term thing." and I immediately stopped worrying about every aspect of it because I figured it would all sort itself out eventually and when I really needed something, like a Fourth Time/Bait and Switch Cataclysm, then I could turn up the heat a bit to get that weapon. Just cause you can get something doesn't mean you have to go get it. You're allowed to let things come to you. Bungie very clearly intended this system to work that way, dunno why the community has been so stubborn about it.
Idk how you play the game, but I tend to do all my pinnacles at the start of the week, the seasonal weekly mission, then what? Short term goals achieved, I persue long-term goals. Getting god-rolls, farming Legend Lost Sectors for well-statted exotics, trying to hit Legend in Comp, etc. Then Bungie introduces a long term goal that isn't based entirely on RNG - Get Enough Drops And You Can Craft Your Perfect Weapon, God Rolls Guaranteed! Enhanced Perks Included! Nobody should be surprised that the community at large just grinded the shit out of it.
@@rkay2869totally agree. there are complaints about getting patterns being too grindy and they drop too rarely, but this isn't really a problem because you might be getting the god roll in the pattern grind itself! i would take anything to avoid that 100 Fanatic nightfalls just for a 3/5 mindbenders bro.
If I could just use any Mini-tool to level it up before I crafted, that would fix a lot of issues in my mind. Make it where you could level a weapon before you were able to craft it and then after you craft it, then you would have access to all the base perks, but to get the enhanced perks you would have to use your crafted version. That way people would have to put time into the crafted weapon to get it perfect, but at least would have access to a fun role to use while leveling it.
I don’t mind a bit of a grind to get the craftable weapons I want; however, I only have two issues with it. The number of patterns required and the amount of kills/activities required to get a weapon to level 16 for all enhanced perks. Considering the drop rate of red border weapons, I think 5 deepsight weapons is a bit too much. 3 would be ideal. Also, leveling a weapon to 16 takes about 2300-2500 kills (no activities), and I’d rather see that number halved, or even just 1500 kills with zero activities.
Idk about other weapons but Austringer requires 5 patterns iirc and u can get a guaranteed red border each week by focusing the first umbral engram as an Austringer if u have the Crown power up unlocked
The idea of weapon crafting is neat, and I'm glad to have it, but it could be better. My thoughts: What if, instead of getting resources and patterns from randomly dropped red borders, you could deepsight any legendary weapon you wanted, but it would _cost_ resources to activate instead? Then, once you finish deepsighting that gun, if it's craftable you unlock the perks that roll had for crafting, if not you get your resources back with some extra, and maybe some legendary shards or something too. (obviously, you get those resources from somewhere else too. Maybe the funny crafting table could have bounties?) Change the pattern unlocks to something else entirely (preferably something targetable - get 1000 hand cannon kills in the seasonal area/activity, kill 150 hive knights with charged melee abilities, get 100 sniper headshot kills in 3+ streaks without missing, that sort of thing. Kinda grindy still, but not random.) Maybe change how enhanced perks work, too... spend lots of materials once to permanently enhance that perk on that gun whenever you swap to it. Leave the grind and basic cost, but reduce rng and expensive trial and error. Bonus: change how deepsight weapon levelling works too - instead of unlocking individual perks (now you get those from deepsighting weapon rolls - so getting good rolls of a craftable gun is still good. Maybe let, like, level 20 or 30 automatically unlock all perks though, to save you from the worst of rng's cruel grip?) levelling a weapon could unlock: - enhanced intrinsics (masterwork bonuses) and a second selectable perk in column 1 at level 10 - the ability to enhance perks and a second selectable perk in column 2 at level 20 - adept stat boosts (+2 to all masterworkable stats not masterworked) and second third column perk at 30 - the shiny gold border and a second fourth column perk at level 40 - and something fancy at level 50. Adept mods would be neat, but... no. Maybe a weapon ornament, if bungie can spare the time to make one for every craftable weapon? Or just some little cosmetic thingy, on the gun or in the inventory. People love little cosmetic thingies. - and at level 100... I dunno, I just think it'd be neat if there was something here - it takes a lot to reach, but it's doable if you really like a gun and use it a lot (my beloved is just past level 50! I intend to increase that.) Change the name like an adept? Masterwork, Prized, Honed, something like that? That way you can use whatever rolls you've unlocked immediately after crafting, and you get an almost complete gun at level 10, with minor boosts and conveniences up through 40 and cosmetic trinkets from 40 to 50 (and 100, maybe?) I just wish I: 1. didn't have to rely entirely on rng to unlock patterns. 2. could care about getting good rolls on craftable guns. 3. didn't have to completely decide on a roll and never change it if I want to use enhanced perks, and, 4. didn't have to level multiple copies of a weapon if I wanted to use multiple different rolls without going to the enclave to switch every time.
I feel like my main problem is that it’s hard to treat crafting as a backup when crafted weapons are technically just better than regular drops because of enhanced perks and stat buff at lvl 20. If those things didn’t exist and crafting just got you a 5/5 that would still be insentive enough ro craft if you don’t get the roll you want while grinding, but wouldn’t make crafted versions of a weapon just objectively better than non-crafted versions even if only marginally.
exactly my issue. i like going for the best version of the weapon I can get, so if its craftable with the option for enhanced perks all random drops are worthless to me even if they roll perfectly. I think they fix it by letting you enhance the perks on your random roll somehow even if you can't change anything else on it so it can match at least match a crafted version.
“You’re telling me I have to get a gun, use said gun, level it up, and then re-engineer it to be good?! Who wants that?!” Me *laughing in CoD gunsmith I think when it was first introduced, it was bad. I think now it’s a great place. Albeit it takes a LITTLE too long to level up. It needs to be based more on kills with said weapon as opposed to completions of playlist activities with said weapon. That said I think it adds a fun way to take control of certain preferred weapon and make it a little more your own. I don’t think it should ever nor will it ever be the main/normal way of getting guns but I think it has very strong potential to make some off-meta weapons capable of keeping up with the big boys! I will say, didn’t give a toot about crafting until I saw the Mini in there with enhanced incandescent! And to me that’s the perfect example of who it will appeal to most: people who really didn’t care until they saw one of their favorite guns could be made better! One thing I think could make the crafting system dramatically more appealing is crafting exclusive weapons! Maybe you get a random bounty from Banshee that grants “mysterious pattern data” and on turning it (of a handful) of it into the relic you get a brand-new-never-before-seen gun and it’s got unique traits or modable stats or alt-fire mods. The possibilities are really endless! Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
I agree with you .I have been just playing the game enjoying it and my patterns were in the background and 4 weeks later i was done with them.only complaint is i have to use the copy of the weapon i crafted to level it up lets say i have a really good non crafted mida but i also wanna level up my crafter one using the non crafted one should carry over to the crafted one.
IMO you’re on point. I personally prefer my grind being towards a weapon pattern over a random god roll. In my mind there is a finish visible finish line where as that never clicked for me with random rolls so I was never particularly motivated to grind for those. I feel like with a healthy number of patterns released each season and a reasonable amount of rng the grind could easily replace the old random roll grind. This season the rng feels a bit bad vs last season to me.
This is so accurate man. Contrary to what many people say, I have found that the extreme rarity of red borders for the two dungeon weapons is rekindling an excitement for drops. That dopamine kick when you finally get one has definitely gone away for everything else as I’ve collected most things in the game.
I’ve got about 20 final boss clears and about 40 of the first boss. I have 2 red bar fusions. My buddy has about 3 total clears and a couple of fusions and 4 red bar of the fixed odds. I gave up. Not worth the squeeze
My only hit back with the grind being long is that it's hard to go after seasonal patterns once past a season - people aren't likely to be in those playlists/playspaces so if it's a group activity, it makes it a lot harder. E.g. containment/Wellspring/battlegrounds
I totally agree Datto! I've just been playing my normal amount and eventually got all the season of the risen craftables, and the same is happening with the haunted ones now as well. The war table red border perk really helps with this. I feel the only grind I was sort of EXPECTED to do was the throne world weapons, since some of them drop from content that wasn't necessarily just everyday content, if that makes sense.
I still don't care about any weapon crafting in this game and I don't feel like I missed anything or didn't complete any content. All crafting is still bad and will never reach the status the community wants, simply because it's Bungie.
I could not agree more. Especially the ability to acquire one guaranteed red border each week in the raid and through umbral focusing makes collecting patterns a pleasant experience for me, even though I do aim to collect and perfect them all over time. I do worry how this will work when the yearly rotation comes around though, haven't thought about that until this video so thank you for the warning.
I like grinding out guns, it gives you an appreciation for said gun. It brings back D1 vibes where you literally HAD TO level up every piece of equipment (armor perks and exotics included!). The problem is, the fact that primary ammo weapons take WAY too long to level up and unlock perks for, Whereas, heavy and special ammo weapons do not take as long to level.
I don't care if they make you re-purchase the perks every time. I just want to be able to craft 3 perks per column, so I don't have multiple weapons in my vault and I only have to rank up 1 damn weapon. It's so annoying to have different weapons for PVP, PVE, and a specific build role. It's just lazy how Bungie has implemented weapon crafting. But I am glad it's here.
Agree 100%. People need to stop expecting to have absolutely everything in 3 days. This is meant to be a long-term investment that is essentially bad luck protection, not an instant gateway to a perfect arsenal. I swear the community is their own worst enemy at times.
My biggest issue with weapon crafting is the extreme time investment required, especially with how many weapons are available for crafting. First, you need to have good enough RNG to even get the 3-5 patterns of a specific weapon, then you have to use them quite a bit to obtain the deepsight resonance from each one. By the time you've unlocked the pattern, you may have 300+ kills and played through 10+ playlist activities and zero of that progress gets applied to the base version of the weapon. Then you have to use the weapon for a long time to finally get it leveled up. Getting 20% per activity completion and x0.5 - 1x per kill feels like a slog to get the gun to where it has usable perks, and especially get it to where its high enough to select whatever perks you want. As a frame of reference, my Mini-Tool is currently at 1200 kills and I've been diligent about keeping it equipped at the end of an activity. It's at level 12 1/4. \ At first glance that might not seem terrible, but keep something in mind: Even if I'm being completely efficient and keeping 3 crafted weapons on at one time, only one weapon will be getting the majority of the kills. The other weapon(s) are basically there to get the activity completion bonus, which could take up to 80 if they don't get a single kill. But wait, you also have to keep up with your red border weapons otherwise you don't have the materials to upgrade when its complete or high enough for good perks. Perhaps you don't want to even use the gun you're leveling up right now- you better quickly switch to crafted weapons at the end of an activity to gain the progress, otherwise its wasted XP. It just feels a little too much, even for gaining god rolls. I play more than the average D2 player (level 400+ last season and 170ish this season) and I've been incredibly diligent about efficiency. I always have a crafted weapon equipped or in my inventory for swapping at the end and I still feel like it's a never ending battle. I have 13 weapons that I still don't have a pattern for, and 8 weapons I haven't even started leveling up yet. I realize the system isn't meant for someone to gain every single weapon, but it feels so far out of reach that it makes most of the weapons useless. You really can't even play around with a gun to see how it feels once fully leveled up because it takes too much time away from crafting the super viable weapons. If I'm struggling to keep up, how in the hell are people with less time feeling? It somewhat pigeon holes them in to only caring about the best of the best for that season, or being like me and sacrificing using whatever you want for max efficiency. They either need to increase the XP gains significantly, reduce the amount of craftable weapons they release each season, or reduce amount of red borders needed to craft a weapon. As it stands, 95% of my clan stopped playing this season because it felt like they had to micromanage their entire time on D2 now, mostly due to crafting and the investment required.
A little update. I just finished running all 6 weekly bounties on all 3 characters (very early bounty prep) and exclusively used the Mini-Tool while working on them. I got to 1500 kills (plus activities) to finally reach 16. At that point, I switched to Beloved and Empirical Evidence to finished off the rest of the bounties. I'm at over 700 kills with EE and level 7, while Beloved is still at level 2 with 102 kills. That was 6+ hours of grinding while focusing on weapon XP and doing bounties. I gained a total of 12 levels between the 3 guns I was using, and this includes a heavy amount of kills coming from the Altars of Sorrow activity. I didn't use a single other gun unless it was for a few Gunsmith bounties, and I basically crammed a long session to get there. If we assume it takes 8-10 hours of hard usage on a weapon to get max rank, then the other 20 guns I have left will take 160-200 hours to complete- not including the need for red borders, other materials and the RNG needed before I can even start the XP grind. This also doesn't take in to account that GM season starts next week, and a lot of the weapons I have left wont be viable for GM's unless I want to seriously handicap my team. Basically, I won't be getting any weapon XP next week unless I use these weapons during the seasonal quests, or just decide to play in the core activity playlists.
Honestly, my biggest gripe with crafting is the amount of kills it takes to level up the gun. Why make us fight through getting 5 red borders, which may take months for a certain weapon, only to make us slog away at thousands of kills to get the enhanced perks you want? This just forces people to get a shuro chi checkpoint if they want their god roll sooner rather than later.
You pretty much nailed it on this topic. I only have a few crafted weapons above LVL 16, and hate how tedious it is to upgrade them. I really don't like having to take up vault space with red-bar weapons to save up neutral elements either. To me, weapon crafting is in its early stage... I would love to be able to change scopes, elements, and multiple enhanced perks per weapon.
Personally, I think the grind™ this season is fine, really. I play at most an hour or two a day, and I already have a fully crafted beloved and mini tool. I do think leveling up the weapons is really annoying, but I wouldn't mind it if it permanently unlocked the perks for future crafts. The voices that are the loudest seem to be the people who spend the most time grinding and then complaining about not having enough to do at the end of the season.
Personally i feel the grind is entirely too long. When i get on to play a game for a few hours after work, I dont want to spend it doing some garbage public event and running around with a chest tracker on. Destiny 1 material farm was about as fun as this is
I completely agree with you Datto; we are on the same page with regard to crafted weapons. I just play the game and unlocking patterns when they unlock, then I level guns as time permits; usually doing weaponsmith bounties I will break out my crafted weapons to level them a bit and get those bounties done; or I'll slap on a crafted heavy when I jump into crucible because just having it equipped levels it up. Up until quite recently, I was dismantling red box weapons because I had no space in my vault to hold them and I was capped in crafting materials.
Me sitting here with a mini tool, drang, and beloved that I crafted within the first week of the season and had them all up to level 16 a few days later after spending 6 hours at Shuro Chi. That being said, I haven't complained about crafting this season at all. I did this to myself and I don't regret it. And yes, let's just get this out of the way. I have no life, I accept it, I'm 100% a pathetic waste of genetic material. Have a nice day.
PVE streamers/TH-camrs often make a similar claim about the grind being the core element/source of fun for the game and I DEEPLY disagree. The fun comes from USING cool new items and abilities that are unique and powerful. Guns aren't better because it took you a long time to get it. The focus should be on EXPERIENCING your ideal item, not the drawn-out pursuit of it.
I feel like this is coming from someone who like 80-20 plays Crucible... If you want all the guns unlocked in a multiplayer game right away then this might not be the right one?
@@noahhattrup8360 Did I say I want all the guns unlocked automatically? Nope. I didn't even say eliminate all grind, all I said was where the true fun of the game comes from. But yes, I am mainly a Crucible player but I still enjoy Pve lmao
During witch queen, I crafted 3 weapons (enigma, osteo striga, some rando fuzor that I was just doing for a quest before I decided I wasn't too fussed about that quest right now). I only intend to craft 1 this season (a mini-tool, because I enjoy incandescent). I don't feel like I'm missing out for not using the crafting system.
I think the grind is fine, other than being tied to the seasonal activity which gets quite boring to run time and time again. Much like Wellspring. Wonder if they'll ever increase the drop rate for those patterns, finally had one drop at 78 runs..... I'd rather not run another 78 for the other one
I’m 100% agreeing with you. I have each damage type and type of gun covered and then my go to weapons for end game. Upgrade as I go if one ends up better than the other. Yet to craft a weapon I even care to use and casually will craft ones I actually want.
Wholeheartedly agree! The desire to burn through any and all content, forever and ever, until the end of time, no matter how monotonous, is at the root of many people's dissatisfaction with this game. Thanks for putting this out there. Much love!
To date, I've crafted 5 weapons. Osteo Striga and Enigma because I had to for a quest, Syncopation, Likely Suspect and Sweet Sorrow. I discovered that last season I spent too much time focusing on grinding the red borders and not doing the things I wanted to, so this season I haven't done a single one. I do plan on crafting a Beloved as it was my favorite sniper before but I'm not actively trying to find the red border weapons. In fact, I delete most of them.
I feel similar to Datto about the crafted weapons but as someone who only started up playing in season 15, I do rush for patterns where I don’t have a good weapon to fill the niche, like rushing for thoughtless last season because my kinetic sniper options were pretty poor. It’s more than bad luck protection it’s also a nice way for newer players to catch up in terms of getting well rolled weapons.
As someone who was first to the beloved crafted in my clan, i lost my mind more than once trying to get to it, then spent the miserable 1k plus kills to level 16, and proceeded to immediately notice that enhanced snapshot was slower than the last time i used a plain snapshot sniper in pvp before the changes. I haven't logged on to D2 for 8 or 9 days...with no plans to play
To the issue at 8:11 My solution would be a way to infuse a randomly rolled version of for example, Calus Mini Tool into your level 1 crafted version and your crafted version gets the perks from your randomly rolled version. This wouldn't fast track you if say the gun had Incandescent on it, like it wouldn't suddenly become level 8 or whatever, but you would have the fun perk you already got randomly rolled and can continue to have fun with it, while using it to level it up to get the enhanced version.
I’ve gotten 2 red bar fusions from the dungeon and 0 of the fixed odds after having about 20 clears and 40 of the first boss. My issue with crafting isn’t getting red bars, it’s the fact that these two guns that no-one will try to chase but me because of their archetype are going to be impossible to get. Why put these in the dungeon? After 6months I’m still not going to have ether and at this rate this dungeon will be in the dcv before I get all the red bars. People won’t even be playing by the time I might get them. I gave up and would just assume not play then chase other things that I would have.
THANK YOU! You basically echo my exact thoughts on this subject and it’s so nice to hear someone with a big voice saying everything I’ve been saying all along. I’m so tired of the copious amounts of Reddit posts crying about it being too hard to get crafted weapons or that deep sight weapons drop too infrequently. You’re not supposed to craft everything, and if you were for like a seasonal title then sure I understand being mad about it, but the only title with such a requirement is the throne world one which gives you plenty of time to complete. These are the absolute pinnacles of god rolls we’re talking about, they shouldn’t be handed out like r/dtg wants lol
What I personally would like to see is an overhaul something like this: -Future seasons will not allow crafting of all seasonal weapons. Instead you'll have 1-3 weapons per season that are *only* available through crafting (i.e. Season ## only has a Bow, MG, Auto Rifle, and Shotgun as drops but has a Fusion Rifle and Scout Rifle craftable), you get the patterns through seasonal challenges. -A "generic" craftable weapon for each type can be unlocked at the gunsmith (long term grind, more added over time but to start 1 of each type but not 1 of each archetype) and upgraded by completing deepsight weapons of that type, eventually allowing you to unlock ornaments for it to make it look like the other weapons of it's archetype. So a Deepsight precision frame auto will give progress for new perks on your crafted precision frame auto and completing 5 deepsight verisons of the same auto gives you the ornament of it. Special quests will unlock, for example, SUROS or Omolon craftable weapons that count as the "generic" weapons. -Completing 5 (or more depending) deepsight weapons of a *slot* (primary, energy, or heavy) from the same *source* (season, vanguard, crucible, raid, etc) will unlock the intrinsic perk for the generic craftable weapons in that slot -Each weapon's perk pool has at least 1 or 2 perks that cannot be put on the generic craftable weapons That way: -All deepsight drops progress crafting unlocks to an extent instead of just a select few specific weapons -the Gunsmith and Weapon Foundries have a bigger role -you can keep older weapon appearances while still having access to newer perks as the "generic" weapons get updated bit by bit (likely a season or two behind new perks being added to random drops) -Seasonal activities have random roll grinding *and* deepsight weapons to earn without the two conflicting. -The generic weapons provide a long-term investment in weapons over multiple seasons without completely invalidating the weapon roll grind since they can't have access to every perk I think despite the added complexity this could still be conveyed in a way that's not too confusing if done carefully.
Loot needs at least 1 of 3 of the following things for me to even care about it, in any game: 1. Guaranteed it drops with random features (perks) at end of hard activity. 2. Bad luck protection. 3. Fast activity. Opulent keys are a good example of something just outside of what I want. 1. They aren't guaranteed, even from a full, 3 round Containment. 2. The can drop deepsights that you already have. 3. It takes a long time.
I honestly feel the same way. I barely use crafted weapons. I have a bunch in my vault that I stopped caring about. I’m taking my absolute time getting red border weapons this season. Just letting it ride, having fun with the grind, instead of feeling obligated. It’s a bit more liberating.
I do think people overreact to The Grind TM because I think there is a bit of fomo and just wanting to grind with a new weapon, not grind to get it. I totally see your point and get it, as I only just crafted my first opulent weapon like two days ago, not running the public event for eleven hour on the first day of the season.
Good stuff. I cared a bunch at the beginning but soon realized that a god roll craft-able would still not be as preferable as most of my dropped god rolls. I also hate getting a bunch of kills on a shaped weapon when it sucks. The Enigma and Osteo where the only ones that got the kills during normal play.
I have almost every single weapon from both seasons crafted except for two - Epicurean and the Titan Glaive. Some of them, due to needing a neutral element sink or simply an alternate roll that wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg, have been crafted multiple times. What I like: - Once I have a pattern done, I am done with that gun forever. I'll bring it out for certain content, or it sits in my vault ready to go. Not having to worry about needing a specific kinetic pulse or void bow is a good feeling. - Once a specific checklist of activities is complete for those guns (Since I am done with Psyops weapons, I don't need to do psyops anymore. Since I am done with the nightmare weapons on the leviathan, I don't need to do containment anymore) I can decide to do other activities. It focuses my playtime and allows me to branch out and do other things. - The red border system forces me to try rolls I wouldn't normally try, which I might fall in love with. I found a Riptide with feeding frenzy/successful warmup with a charge time masterwork that went from what would've been shard fodder to a really fun add clear fusion. - Ditto for leveling up weapons. I ended up with over 40 levels on Lubrae's Ruin from Duality alone this season, and 40-ish levels on Tarnation from patrol zones and just random activities. They're not meta options by any stretch, but they just sorta ended up in my inventory and I ended up using them. Once you're done leveling, passively using these weapons still rewards neutral element and progression, and that feels nice. What I don't like: - I feel like the leveling for the weapons themselves could be adjusted to gain levels faster earlier on, but slower later on, like a gradual, perhaps capped, exponential curve or logistical curve. To reach the right level to pick and choose any perk, it's about 2,300 kinetic/special kills and about 1,400 heavy kills for level 17. Some archetypes (looking at you Father's Sins and Ragnhild-D) can be an outright slog to get this done. As you're leveling these weapons you're forced to use some truly awful rolls in the interim. It burns you out on the weapon, and the need to get the other rolls finished benches these weapons when you're done crafting them unless they fit into the builds you're using. - Locking unlockable weapons for this season behind Duality was a dick move. I got lucky with Fixed Odds, but I'd need to run Gahlran an absurd amount of times for Epicureans (sitting at 2/5). Same thing with a random drop for the pattern off of Wellspring, I feel like an insurmountable amount of wellspring needs to be done to net the patterns for the exotic glaives.
I think its great, its giving me a reason to keep playing the game, i slowly work on collecting red border guns to craft while doing weekly missions and other quests. I do want every good roll weapon for myself, but rushing to get them now would be boring in the long run.
There are only a handful of reasons I genuinely seek weapon crafting: Triumphs and Titles/Seals when needed (Gumshoe for example), something to slap my momentos on, and weapons I have heard/been told that were good for the activities I seek on doing (Calus mini tool with enhanced surrounded for a solo dungeon run for example). Outside of any of those reasons I have a handful of guns is keep close to my heart and use for every activity
I've never really been crazy about the crafting that was introduced in WQ. I like the *idea* that there's a route to obtain weapons with the rolls I want, but I think I'll always enjoy seasonal focusing into items with more perk combinations per drop. I think it lets me appreciate the individuality of the guns that Destiny offers, it's one of the key things that's kept me playing the game regularly since they introduced random rolls. Boiling down the weapons to the guaranteed rolls, best barrel, best mag, MW, etc....it just feels so emotionless. I have so many older guns that are 3/5 and 4/5 rolls, they're "imperfect" but I love them to absolute death. I can't really say I feel that way about my crafted Beloved, it only makes me think about my random rolled one I grinded for years ago that was sunset (that I still have, and use for everything PVP that isn't trials).
One additional factor of crafting weapons is future-proofing; if some perk changes in future, either a bad one becoming good or a good one getting nerfed into the ground, you can change the perk on a crafted weapon. It prevents needing to either fill your vault with currently-mediocre rolls or a future grind. Even if I get my perfect roll for a craftable weapon, I will (over time) craft one anyway because of this. I'm also not rushing out red-borders, for the same burn-out related reasons as I rarely grind for rolls. Also, what an individual gets from receiving the roll they want is HIGHLY subjective; personally it's disappointment with the occasional not-disappointment when I get what I was actually after. I actually get more excited when I get a red-border that I need to unlock a pattern than when I get an above-mediocre roll, because that red-border is PROGRESS towards my perfect roll instead of just being Legendary Shards and Glimmer dressed up as a gun. I actively dislike grinding for random drops, especially if they're limited to a mode I despise; looking at you Reed's Regret that I had to grind 20 Trials ranks for (in pre-Cataclysmic times, using focusing) that is now pretty worthless because Vorpal got nerfed and it doesn't have the manufacturor perk. I would rather grind for currency; at least that's measurable progress. D2 sits at my absolute limit for RNG tolerance, and anything that shifts it away from that is good IMO; I want to play for the story, the combat, the space magic and the guns, not ram my head against RNG doing the same activity long after I'm sick of it. I will not be replacing my Reed's, I will not be going after a better Eyasluna roll, and I'm even vaguely indifferent about Stormchaser, because after that one experience getting my initial 'god-roll' Reed's I will NEVER be doing it again. But I still go into Vow for red-borders even though I've got half the patterns done and crafted and got my Collective Obligation, because no matter what I'm guaranteed progress, no meatter if it's only one more weapon towards a locked pattern.
I noticed the other day that I was way more excited about getting a ok roll (not even a 4/5) on a uncraftable world drop than I was about finally finishing a 5/5 crafted weapon. I'll use both probably an equal amount but one required hours after commitment and the other was unexpected and random. Destiny has trained us to think the latter is more exciting. And tbh...it was.
Because it is. It interacts with your brain differently. Which is why Bungie doesn’t want to undermine that reward loop, by letting people quickly craft everything in the game.
I agree! And for those of us who love the game and have played for years, but only have 1 day to play every week because of work makes it hard for grinding for red borders. Have to squeeze every minute into pinnacles and getting the weekly season quests done.
In regards to 8:25 I feel as though for the grind aspect bungie would change the way we earn advanced perks by changing it from being available through leveling/usage to having them only be unlocked through certain challenges. Slide kills, headshots, multi kills, one shots, kills while at critical health, and longshots ( I realize now that this is exactly like the camo grind for CoD) would be possible challenges.
I got MY perfect Mini-Tool roll fairly early in the season. Masterworked it immediately, and it even got me through my recent flawless dungeon runs. My brother asked me if I'd even still use it after getting the pattern for it and crafting one. Honestly? I'd be more than happy just keeping mine and not crafting one, and I think that speaks volumes. Maybe it's just the simplicity of getting a roll that the majority of people wouldn't be as excited for. Either way it's still nice to have the options available for different builds and such.
Your take about people rushing to get everything is spot on. I've seen a lot of players dumping opulent energy for Austringers and whatnot only to rage at the fact that no red border dropped. But I understand the frustration. However...you made a point about natural play. This is where Bungo failed with weapon crafting...it's unnatural...it detracts from you playing normally. It's not integrated enough. Without much detail, as I feel I've rambled this on several comments and videos already. What we need is: -Collection tracked level (ALL copies of a weapon sharing the level) -Perk modification(Allow players to modify a 3/5 4/5 weapon upon reaching a certain level with the gun) -More level relevance past 30...something like adding extra stuff like:2 row perks in crafting or adept MW bonuses. Weapon crafting SHOULD BE the ENDGAME of weapon chasing. But everything you encounter during your chase should count .Right now, the most stupid feeling is getting an almost God Roll, but when you craft the weapon you start off with WORSE perks than you had. This is why I am asking for an collection tied level system. I would like to use my God Roll to "atune" to said weapon and level it up...before crafting my perfect copy.
I'll repeat this every time I see a vid talking about crafting. It should not have been a way to make a weapon from scratch, it should have been a way to tailor a random dropped weapon to your liking. Forget the red borders, leveling, enhanced perks. It should have been nothing more than taking a perk from one random roll and putting it on another of the same weapon, and should extend to every gun in the game. So you can take a 4/5, combine it with a 1/5 and a bunch of currency, and make a 5/5 or if your rng is really bad, you can take 5 1/5s and make a 5/5 that way. Basically limiting the grind without removing it. I find this would be much better since the excitement of getting a drop would still be there, the task of getting a god roll would be less boring than crafting, and there would be no statistical powercreep that enhanced perks bring.
I agree. I'm a newer player and a pretty casual one at that and I've only crafter I think the glaive and the exotic and that's it. I only did those for quests. I just have all my red borders in my vault and if banshee has bounties for a red border I have ill use that for the play session
I've only crafted Calus Mini-Tool this season and didn't even bothered using the Shuro Chi checkpoint or Grasp of Avarice entrance level farming since they buffed the amount of Exp get from core activities and already have it enhance and can say people are most likely making a fuss out of nothing.
Kinda repeating what some already mentioned here... once a pattern is completed that gun should get a static level universally applied to all versions of that gun. After reaching a certain level you should then be able to craft it with all perks available to you, so you can turn the 3/5 into a 5/5 for example. Enhanced Traits should only be unlockable though by using that crafted weapon further.
This is literally my approach to the game in general and it's much more fun playing just to, you know, play. Best part about it is that I don't get burnt out and always have something to look forward to.
Very coherent explanation and an important message. I got caught up in the buzz of grinding for red borders this season. Fortunately the activity is pretty fun, and the weapons are great, so I don't regret it. I think the main problem is the design of the activity. Vestige of Dread should be most efficiently gathered from playlist activities to encourage playing the rest of the game. If they did that, the activity could also be more generous because you've spent time elsewhere.
Well I got the patterns of all the craftable Weapons this season besides the 2 dungeon ones. I love the scout rifle enhanced motion and explosives rounds. I like to rush things when a season launches to not worry anymore through out the season
I definitely should've taken it easy this season. As soon as I heard that Beloved was craftable, I blew something like four straight weeks of nonstop grinding in the Leviathan to get a crafted Beloved, and I still haven't levelled it up enough to get Snapshot sights on it. I burned out too hard at the start of the season trying to craft things, so I would definitely agree with the notion that you should not rush crafting.
For me, I wanted an s class handcannon and sniper for pvp. So I ground for austringer and beloved rolls and ended up unlocking Calus mini tool and austringer. While I was doing the grind I got a weird rolled beloved (surplus QuickDraw with great handling) tried it, and adored it. The only reason I go to the leviathan is because I want a good rolled drang. The main reason I even like the crafting system is because it allows me to experiment with rolls on weapons I think might be fun without having to hope for the roll to drop thereafter. I initially crafted my Calus mini tool with feeding frenzy and threat detector for pvp but realized I had more fun with it in pve so I recrafted the gun about 7 or 8 times until I settled on a weapon that fits my play style perfectly. I only try to craft weapons I love, and I only put enhanced perks on guns that I love after crafting (like empirical evidence) because once I put on that enhanced perk, it’s not coming off until bungie makes enhanced perks permanent unlocks. But the crafting grind is only going to get worse from here, because as soon as bungie drops a craftable high impact or lightweight pulse into the sandbox with one crazy good roll (like encore adagio on empirical evidence, which makes what’s an a or b tier sidearm s tier in that one roll) everyone is going to sink countless hours to unlock it.
My main issue with weapon crafting is most of the time the weapons that are in the pool of craftable weapons are anything that I want. This season the only weapons I've crafted out of the list of added patterns/weapons are Beloved, Austringer and Calus Mini-tool, and only use one of the three which is Austringer cause I'm too busy vibing with a nice Staccato will Triple Tap/Focused Fury. So I've lost all focus on gathering the patterns unless it's something required of me for one reason or another.
I think you hit the nail on the head about crafting being the endgame/bad luck protection part of the grind. I do think that Bungie should have done better at communicating this as I too thought that crafting was going to become the main way we got our new guns when it was first announced. If I had to offer a suggestion, I'd suggest making it easier to get the crafted weapons in our hands, and then offering more ways for us to fully invest in a weapon we really like. For example, I've seen a lot of people want to be able to add a second row of perks, this could be something that would be unlocked once your weapon level is high enough. They could also make it cost less to swap perks the higher level the weapon is with it eventually becoming free, even for enhanced perks. This would let your casual players feel like their time is rewarded, and that they don't have to no life the game to get the roll that they want, while still rewarding those that have the time/inclination/dedication to really invest in a weapon.
The only problem I have personally is after I collect all 5 deep sights and then max the gun out to get the rolls I want, I just get burnt out and sick of using the weapon entirely.
LITERALLY every weapon I’ve grinded I got bored of the weapon from grinding it. They need to make it more lenient it rly isn’t that huge of an advantage
Would be nice if maybe if you had a crafted weapon and then got another red frame version to drop, you could infuse the new red frame into your crafted version to unlock the perks from the red frame/give it some exp?
I got burnt out of my calus mini tool immediately after crafting it. Farming fucking patrol was boring as shit and when I saw the amount of time I'd have to spend on shuro chi and was like "hell no"
The only weapon that I like MORE from grinding it to 30 (I love those silly mementos) is Sweet Sorrow. Every other one got vaulted once I could apply the special shader.
This ^^^^^^
One of the ideas that I imagined might go into weapon crafting is as a partial reliever of vault space. Bungie has expressed that just changing your vault number is much more complicated than it seems, and they have only been able to work out temporary increases so far. I thought that weapon crafting might serve as a means of cutting down the fat in your vault. Instead of having to hold 3-4 rolls in anticipation for future sandbox changes or a new build that could use a certain perk, you can just have the one crafted weapon in your inventory capable of being any of the rolls you previously would have hoarded. If Bungie plans to use it for this though, then they either need to reduce the cost of switching perks, or make it so that you can craft multiple of the same weapon without releveling.
This! Once you've leveled up a weapon, you should be able to craft at that level
yes, level up the PATTERN, not the weapon
*edit* actually that could also alleviate the issue of continuing to get red borders after a pattern unlock. Make it so completing more red borders contributes to upgrading that pattern. Sure, you'll still get beyond level 20 where additional levels don't really matter, but it does give it some more life.
Yeah I think everyone expected that to be the case, since it was a really easy and obvious solution to the vault space issue. Unfortunately for the community freely swapping perks isn’t enough of a Skinner box
@@sunnydaze905 I'll kinda contest this for the sake of questioning whether it's really worth the extra work to change it.
How many of us, having already unlocked the pattern and learning that some new perk combo is the meta *wouldn't* toss aside our current leveled roll or craft a new version and grind it up to get access to those perks? Having the option alone is already pretty great, when you think about it, vs what it used to be where the weapon just rotated out and was now unobtainable.
Essentially we've already future-proofed ourselves by unlocking the pattern, it'll just take a day's grind tops to get it where it needs to be.
The game's fundamental gameplay loop is to play game to get loot to play game better to get better loot, how much do we really gain by shorting that by perpetually having access to the perfectly rolled weapon in a given archetype at the drop of a hat?
@@Avoncarstien How much we gain is anecdotal. It's really just how much Bungie respects our time.
Imagine you pull an exotic weapon from your vault that you deleted due to space issues, and every time you did that you had to re-do the kills for the catalyst. Kinda the same argument. Would you like that? It's just playing the game after all..
Compared to last season, I’m way more relaxed on crafting. The only weapons I was in a hurry for were the Mini-Tool and Drang for maximum Incandescent. I am slightly concerned about the last season of an expansion, though.
yes, like, is there a way to get all the seasonal weapons from past seasons when the new dlc comes?? they usually disappear in some kind of "world loot pool". imagine trying to get a red frame then...
I'm literally just doing them all cause I'm a triumph goblin. Not interested in anything but Mini tool and Austringer, personally. I just like finishing all seasonal triumphs within that given season. Once season 18 drops, I don't want to worry about getting old patterns.
Yeah, moving forward I'd like to see them maybe add a random selection of guaranteed DS weapons from vaulted seasons to Xur's inventory. Let catch-uppers work toward crafting stuff they might otherwise miss once Lightfall rolls around
Here’s hoping that the last season splurges out on loot & makes an effective path to earn red frame seasonal weapons
That's how I've been for the trace rifle and sniper. As a PvE main, crafting has been nice and slow.
I do really love the idea of having all base perks unlocked when you initially craft a weapon. Having to use a terrible roll once you finally get to craft whatever you’re chasing really sucks. Being able to start w/ a solid base version of what you want would really help me enjoy the long leveling process
I think you should be able to level up a gun by using any version of that gun, and if you craft a copy of that gun, it should automatically be at that level
bounty exp should count to in some way, at least then once you have done all your bounties you can use the exp to level some weapons on the side
Universal levels for specific weapons absolutely needs to happen, maybe even let us reshape our normal drops after we’ve unlocked the pattern
I've been saying the second part of your comment since this crap started. It irks me that if I want another crafted copy of a certain gun, I have to level it up after having already done it once.
I think the second part makes sense but the first part not so much
Same, and if you've spent resources on a perk before, you should be able to switch to it for cheaper / nothing
Honestly, I've had a similar take in regards to weapon crafting. I feel it can generate burnout faster in players who feel like they need to rush to get exactly what they want on a weapon. Tbh, I'm using this season to relax and play other games because I really don't feel as much urgency to get the weapon patterns and have them fully crafted right away.
Yep and this is the problem with a lot of destiny players impatience they just want the godroll handed to them which isn't gonna happen you either get lucky with drops or you spend time getting the pattern and levelling the gun so you can craft the perks you want it's completely fair
Leveling up specials should be tuned separately from primary weapons they have less ammo and most aren’t made for just killing trash enemies, snipers and fusions mostly but shotguns to. It feels like to level them you just have to leave them equipped for everything you do
Ya there is not too much of a problem with heavies but snipers and bows. You need so many kills for a weapon that can't do group add clear most of the time. Without the tether trick at shuro chi it would take over 2h to get a thoughtless to level 20.
Leveling up a linear fusion makes me want to tear my hair out
@@F0XRunner They are pretty short when using the tether trick at shuro chi. Other than that ya they take way too long.
1000% agree, it could be based on how many hits you get/damage dealt but definitely needs a change. Otherwise the best way to level it is doing activities with it equipped at the end for the bonus.
imagine if you got bonus to lvl by hiting headshots with snipers or dealing dmg with heavies, or geting 2 or more kills with fusions/shotguns and special ammo gls
I’m pretty fine with most parts of the system right now, but for me a change I’d really like to see is the ability to unlock a second row of perks on a crafted gun. Just for cases like say, Deliverance where I’m very interested in both a PvE and PvP roll. It would save me from having to have multiple copies of the gun for each roll. (Whether both are crafted or one is just an RNG drop) I honestly wouldn’t mind the cost to switch perks each time if I could just have options to switch on the fly. Even if unlocking that second row required reaching some high level on the weapon like 30, it would solve a lot of my issues with the system since I was the most excited about the system saving me vault space.
Yeah, I think being able to craft a weapon with 2 picks in each column would negate any complaint I could reasonably attempt to level at the current crafting system; resource cost, grind time, perks not permanently unlocked... it's all kinda moot if you've got *some* amount of ability to flex a couple of options. It's part of what makes adept weapons so good, 1 weapon can theoretically take the place of 4 others just in terms of column 3/4 perks, let alone being able to chose your MW and col 1/2.
Yeah I agree I hate wanting a pve and pvp roll for a gun so I have to get two of them and constantly swap between all my characters and my vault just for the occasion
Bungie hire this man
I like that crafting is a bit of an answer to the “sunsetting” problem with seasonal weapons leaving every year. Now you can earn the weapon and make it again later. If they buff/nerf some perks so now your roll is garbage or you want a better one, you can change the roll.
I definitely agree with your take though. I don’t feel a need to grind out red borders or sit for hours in GOA leveling up a weapon since that’ll just happen naturally over time. It is annoying that you have to start with a garbage roll, but I’ll just throw it on and do strikes or whatever since you can just blow through those like it’s nothing
Exactly, Ill just throw it on and play some activities, do some bounties, seasonal challenges, whatever and just level it casually in the background. Definitely the fastest and more engaging way of leveling a gun as opposed to shooting the same thrall for 4 hours straight
I’ve been leveling the WQ sidearm for a while now (I love sidearms) and I’ve just been casually using it in raids and strikes and wherever the hell and I’m having a great time. Reminds me of Breachlight, and I can’t wait to get a similar roll my old Breachlight has. I basically only use Suro Chi for weapons I either REALLY WANT LEVELED FAST (like Forebearance after a bit playing around with it and realizing it would work great in my void Hunter playstyle) or for heavies like Cataclysmic that I really want the upgraded perks on, since Suro Chi lets me turn glimmer and legendary shards into heavy ammo via flags which generally makes the leveling process a lot less painful. I just throw on a podcast and vibe on deadfall tether and go from there
@@Subsistence69 the only small complaint i have is that i have to use the level 1 shit roll to get something like 1500 kills just to get to the level with the perks i want even after crafting. but that's fine, i got most of the god-rolls of the opulent weapons before i can get to 5 patterns.
@@jaywu4804 I agree the leveling rate is painfully slow
@@jaywu4804 i think *a* solution (even if probably a not feasible one for bungie or *maybe* even not the best for us) would be make crafting level be part of every gun with the same name and not only the crafted one. like this you could level your crafted weapon while using a better random rolled version until you are able to craft what you want on your crafted gun.
I know bungie said that like this we could "try" other perks but a) nobody "tries" perks on crafted guns because its still pretty costy to just swap every level and b) most people playing now for 2+ years now know what kind of perks they prefer and being forced to play a perk i hate wont make me like or appreciate that perk anymore
Thank you! I feel this is a rational and reasonable way to look at crafting. I do hope that they allow us to slot in perks at a reduced cost if we have already slotted those perks in that weapon before so I can reasonably switch between perks if I've paid the cost upfront.
I love the concept of weapon crafting for two reasons:
1 - I have a notoriusly bad RNG (it's a running joke in my clan) so this system eases some of the frustration of grinding, because in the end I will eventually build the roll that I want and suits my playstyle.
2 - Newcomers can build a decent arsenal: a really good friend came back to the game one season ago and crafting guarantees (again, eventually) that she can have guns to tackle any actitvity in the game. We don't want another "combat style" mods situation, which is super unfriedly to new players and people who take a rest from the game.
All the points of the video are pretty valid and I have the same opinion, mostly. The most important thing it's people need to chill the f out and stop trying to craft every single weapon in the first two weeks of a season.
Good work as always, Mr. Trv.
Any advantage given by a "godroll weapon" shouldn't be locked behind RNG. Because statistically, one could NEVER see it drop in any reasonable amount of time, while the guy who is whooping your ass got it on his first drop. Now, if godrolls are given due to time invested, spending the time to level items up, farm materials, you should be given what you want.
holy cow the combat mod situation >_>
Ada needs a look or a Xur-style "here's one mod you don't have a week" style approach, because IMO mods gatekeep returning players far more than godroll weapons (exotics have a monopoly on weapon gatekeeping ;) )
Edit to address the tail end of OP's post:
Yeah, the game is designed to have a lifespan, if you're complaining about burning out trying to do 100% of the content in the first week or two....that's kind of on you :/
@@Avoncarstien the mod situation has gotten worse especially after element 3.0 changes because everything is tied so tightly together, from subclass aspects to fragments to CWL mods and Well mods. missing one of them for a build could break it entirely (think heavy handed for 50% melee energy refund)
I’ve crafted almost all weapons from both seasons and just completed crafting my last raid weapon. I do actually use a lot of them. As a player returning to the game after not playing since vanilla d2, it’s really helped me fill the void in my weapon choices. If I had a lot weapons from prior seasons, I imagine I’d probably feel the same as you and wouldn’t be engaging in it as much and would use it as a back up. I’m enjoying the guaranteed god roll ‘catch up’ mechanic. My only real annoyance is maybe neutral element cap and the amount of time to take to level a weapon. I wouldn’t mind leveling up multiple copies of weapon if it was just a bit easier. Maybe give just a bit more level xp on activity completion or something. Generally very happy with the system though. I dislike having to watch every roll that drops. I knew I was going to craft everything in the raid so I didn’t bother checking a single roll and turned it all into alloy.
Brother I've been playing religiously for months and have like 2 guns craftable....
@@zachstokes9664genuinely a skill issue
@@pootisspencer5492 I have multiple master dungeon clears, and my conquerors title, along with the new dungeon title that just came out... no it's not a skill issue it's an rng issue... bungie even addressed that the drop rate of red borders last season was bad so they increased the rates this season
@@pootisspencer5492 and on top of all that, not everybody has a team of 4 for doing ketchcrash master everyday 10 times a day
I agree with most of your points, I feel like a lot of the frustration that we've seen in regards to crafting is down to people being inpatient and wanting everything instantly. That said I do feel like Bungie could make it easier to level up guns once they're crafted, shortening the grind by 10-15% would be nice.
It should flow better if you have a weapon equipped during a strike you should get xp from kills and completions as well as xp from bounties you are doing whilst you are doing strikes. More ways to earn xp helps it flow with whatever you are doing. As opposed to firing up shuro chi for a couple of hours.
@@Predatalien8859 I don't really do normal strikes or shuro chi. The rolls that I want are mainly for pvp but it's a grind trying to use an a** level one roll against dmts, god rolled pulses and last words in control..
Leveling up guns just feels terrible. If I could just use materials to use those perks now then I would. Instead of grinding arbitrary activities using the worst version of the gun.
This video hits it right on the head. Just getting the patterns casually and through focusing is how I enjoy it. Maybe one or two of the guns I get first to level up but that’s it. Weapon crafting is rng safety. Giving us more freedom to do the activities we enjoy
The fact that I can craft a gun into what I want when I want is amazingly cool. The red label grind is a bit long and should be shortened some without taking the chase out of it. I feel once you get a weapon to level 20 there should be a dramatically decreased cost to changing the perks on it. There should be a reward for the time invested in a weapon.
Bungie intended the system to work in the background like he said at the beginning. It’s not meant to be a grind, because you are meant to just get the red weapons over time. Red borders are fine imo because I’ve been able to get the 4/5 or 5/5 god roll before getting the craftable version so far on most of the weapons this season.
It's so nice to finally hear someone sane talk about weapon crafting. Ever since it came out I've seen people nonstop treating the system like it needs to give them their patterns immediately so they can craft a literal perfect copy of the weapon and then run over to Shuro Chi or Grasp of Avarice or whatever and power-level it to 20 before the season's even a quarter over, and it's been driving me nuts. You're absolutely right: It's a failsafe. It's a long-term goal. It's not a replacement for random drops. If you want to do literally everything there is to do in this game, you're going to have to spend a lot of time on it.
Probably the same ppl that will complain that the season is content dry 3-4 weeks in
I don't understand the "issue" that all future drops of a crafted weapon are worthless. That's literally the point, so we don't have to keep 5 copies of a single weapon or wait 2 years (in my case) to get the one roll you've been waiting for. This game has far too much RNG and this one system isn't going to kill the grind and Bungie knows that which is why not every weapon is craftable.
exactly
This will help with vault space, to be sure
Tbf… I think the complaint is basically that you end up with more “blue garbage” in your inventory and postmaster. Getting worthless loot is an annoyance, even if it’s “worth it” to also be able to craft god-rolls.
And this "issue" applies to every gun in the game once you get the god roll you want unless you're one of the few people who want multiple god rolls of the same weapon. It's such a small and meaningless complaint because it's just how the game is with everything in it.
exactly bro. i cant understand people saying they got burned out after the grind. in my case the weapons got so much better to use with my desired perks. plus crafting it is optional like in the case of forbearance. i got ambitious and chain reac very early. this means that since i was blessed with a god roll i dont have to craft one anymore. but for other people who cant seem to get it crafting will be their savior. I prefer crafting because the best guns should be available to everyone. how you make use of it separates the people who can speedrun or are pvp gods from the ordinary players
I think what my man was trying to say around like 1:15 was that the drops for craftable weapons being useless is more of the fact that once you get all 5 or so deep sight weapons you craft and your done, but you keep getting drops, which are not good, no more calus mini balls, beloved please, opulent keys, calus mini balls. The problem is not “oh I don’t want this to drop I want this” it’s more stuff on the loot table that provides 0 purpose once you craft. Deep sight weapons you need to collect should be more of a checklist type deal that is one and done, once you get all 5 mini balls that guaranteed deep sight weapon is something you NEED not more mini balls, too many :(. And that whole you need deepsight weapons for mats is dumb dumb stupid just put the mats like everywhere like glimmer balance it better than glimmer ok thanks bye never commenting again
I just hate that they made “enhanced” traits a thing. Weapon crafting should allow you to essentially freely swap the traits after leveling and unlocking them, so the good roll you get doesn’t get outshined (even by a small margin) immediately by a crafted roll.
Then I’d completely agree that it should be a back up, or a way to give you a perfect roll that you haven’t had yet.
then the problem becomes if you manage to get a good weapon to drop and it's either 5/5 or you're happy with it, weapon crafting becomes redundant for that weapon at all, and there's no more reason to care about it
@@decsperry And how is that a bad thing?
@@onebraincell-q9f would make it more redundant, bungie wants people to feel a reason to go out and craft the weapons over gr8nding different rolls like usual
@@decsperry i have to disagree. I do think Weapon Crafting to be more of a backup plan. A possibility to give you the roll, if your rng is just too aweful. Kind of like a bad luck protection. Enhanced Perks kind of ruin it for me in that case. I also dont think bungie intends to just make crafting the main way of achieving a good weapon, since random rolls are a big part of what makes the grind exciting
@@decsperry One of crafting's long-term pro's is being able to reshape your weapon, so while it's niche there's room there to argue that getting the pattern for a gun you particularly like is probably somewhat worth it even if you got the 5/5 already, just in case a balance patch hits the perks on it or buffs something else in it's pool you're interested in trying.
Do you guys remember in D1 when we had to literally unlock the perks of a gun by just playing the game and getting experience? I think the red boarder should just be an indicator that it can be crafted, and that's all you need. Let the drop rate for a red boarder gun be much lower, but only require that one gun to crafted. Then you'd need to rank up the gun like we do now, except maybe similar to that D1 unlock system I mentioned earlier. Once fully unlocked, THEN it can be crafted. Once crafted, the gun would need to have its perks that were newly craftedb unlocked again. I feel this way it makes the grind much more bearable, and would be exciting to get that red boarder as you now have a craft able gun, but also maybe you would have gotten a god roll drop even before you get that red boarder.
Bad take since this means they would have to remove almost all forms of guaranteed weekly deepsights which is the only thing that makes deepsight grinding bearable for people with lives irl.
@@akurei4532 that is a good point. However like Datto said, crafting isn't supposed to be a core peice of game play, just a bonus. Casual players will find no difference to game play while committed players actually have something to grind for.
This actually solves one of the issues Bungie has been looking at recently: catching up new players to veterans. This allows them at least a few god roll weapons nearly out of the gate. To make or better, I would almost say to have a weapon set (2-3 weapons for each slot) that are just unlocked from the start, The Enigma being the first in that list.
Make them not as good as they can be, but good enough to "compete" with
Exactly. Things like the Hakke shotgun for pvp or Palmyra for pve are great because they're easy for new players to get their hands on and work into god rolls.
I’ve never really thought of it in that light but yeah that makes a lot of sense
Your take on crafting is EXACTLY how I've felt. People have been going on about burnout from running from chest to chest to chest to get the MOST optimal way of getting Opulent keys. And I've never quite wrapped my head around it.
Yah man. I agree. I happen to be one of those players because I actually enjoy the loop of trying to slay and flow through the Leviathan like a force of nature :-) Also I only game a couple hours a week.
I vibe with a lot of what's being said here, my only real issue with crafting is how expensive it is to switch from one enhanced perk to another. To Datto's point, I also usually know what perks I want before I enhance them. But what if perks get better/worse down the line and I want to go back to an old setup? I'd have to pay the steep cost all over again.
This reminds me a lot of how changing the element of Masterwork Armor used to be before they made the excellent change to that system. I'd honestly like a similar (not identical) approach with enhanced perks. Once I spend the time and expensive resources to get an enhanced perk unlocked, let me go back to it later for a reduced cost.
I'd love it if you just paid the same upfront cost to "unlock" the enhanced perks, then swapping them at the table could just cost a small amount
Once you've unlocked a perk, it should be a permanent unlock in the perk node of your weapon. Instead of crafting a PvE and pvp god roll, you could simply craft 1 weapon that can swap between PvE and pvp perks
Even if they didn't want to give every perk available to swap between free from a visit to The Lure (after spending enough resources to get to that point), having crafting allow for 2 perk rows would be nice. Potentially an unlock after hitting like level 20 or something.
Main issue is people thinking they NEED to get enhanced perks, when they are literally pointless
Yeah, I had this reaction to Tassi's article this morning. Crafting hasn't seriously changed the way I engage with the game. It shifts the chase to those red borders and makes it easier to decide what to dismantle, but I don't dismantle everything. In the process of that chase, I save the guns that are close to what I will eventually craft. Like, I've barely gotten any Mini-tool drops, but I saved one that came with Incandescent.
There are some improvements they could make, and I look forward to that, but Crafting continues to be something that I am happy is in the game now. One of the fixes is something you touched on. I think all regular perks should be unlocked prior to unlocking enhanced versions so that I can at least make the gun I want by level 6 or 7 or whatever. Enhancing those perks can come later, given time and mats.
The other is just that I don't think every pattern should need 5 frames. It was that way in Witch Queen and for some reason they decided that the chase this season needed some extra padding. Like, the big stasis rocket launcher should not need as much investment as an Austringer or Beloved, yeah?
Beyond that, I'm sure they're gathering feedback and obviously they're playing the game, too. Crafting is good, and it will get better.
I HAVE changed the way I play post-crafting: I will go out of my way to get red-borders of guns I have little interest in now but might need later (perk/archetype buffs, anti-Champion mods etc); a bit of grind now will save a lot of grind in future. My Ragnhild-D has ~5 levels' worth of kills, but is sitting at level 15 because it had backseated many a Strike/Cruible/Gambit match where I've never swapped off my Monarche (Nezarec Warlock weapon of choice), and should shotguns become meta (in PvE) for any reason, it's there and ready with my preferred roll.
I agree with lot of this. Weapon crafting at its core serves as bad luck protection. Even if I get a semi decent rolled weapon with the perks I want, I don’t bother crafting. If the weapon isn’t fun to use, I don’t level it. Leveling is such a boring grind, and I can’t help but feel that everyone overrates enhanced perks. Crafting is a good system, but I don’t find myself being pulled in to craft and level dozens of weapons
I feel like the issue with craftable weapons comes from the fact that this whole season revolves ENTIRELY around crafting. The leviathan exists solely as a gameplay loop to unlock craftables.
You run containment, to get bound presence and keys to get red borders so you can go do a sever to go grind another set of red borders. It doesn't really have anything outside of that. So having those red borders have terrible drop rates feels bad because it's the only tangible progress you can look at, and I say this as a person with every craftable weapon minus the dungeon ones done this season. Once i finished crafting the last weapon, containment was dead to me minus story requirements.
What? I haven't crafted a single weapon this season and have been playing several hours a week. Most seasons have an activity you do to get an objective done, then don't touch it.
@@kylelwsn that's because you do touch grass guardian!
It’s definitely not around crafting. It’s around loot, just like every other season has been so far. The deepsight drops are bonus like datto said. It’s a extra background bonus you get while getting loot
@@kylelwsn correct. But this season it's the ONLY thing they added. The leviathan is straight up the only thing haunted added, as the dungeon is sold separately. And it exists as a giant red border loop. Even if you say "well containment is the portion of the leviathan you ignore when your done weapon crafting", then what else is there to do? Kill random ads in a patrol space and occasionally kill powerful nightmares? There aren't public events, and the powerful nightmares are just another way to farm opulent keys and red borders outside of doing them each once for a triumph. And severs have bad loot unless you get a bound presence, or have the high stat armor upgrade that applies *checks notes* once per week. Unlike expunge during season of the splicer that dropped high stat armor every time.
@@renegranados4288 also there was a bound presence glitch in like week 2 or 3 that you could abuse, and I farmed a ton then.
Honestly I've really come around on weapon crafting. I love how my crafted weapons feel like my own, and putting all that time into it also increases my personal connection to the weapons. Also, it's just more stuff to do in Destiny, and that sounds great to me
Pretty sure the only weapon I've actively sought crafting for is Explosive Personality, and that was just because a month of farming gave me a bunch of red borders but no rolls with Auto Loading Holster.
Thanks for this confirmation. I just needed someone to make a video about this. I feel the same way. There are a few weapons like Mini Tool and Palmyra that I want crafted so I can change perks if/when needed. But the rest can go strait to Shard Town. I crafted all the Witch Queen weapons to get the exotic glaive, and since then, I have done very little crafting. I may do Austringer when I get the pattern, but I already have an Outlaw/Rampage one that I LOVE. Don't see that being worth the time invested. Leveling up weapons should be a lot easier than it is. I think if you got a little weapon XP from the non-crafted versions of that that counted TOWARD your crafted one, that would be another way to take some of the pressure and time investment away. This needed to be said. Well done, Datto.
My personal take on crafting has actually been a mix: each season has had one or two weapons I really want over the others (Insidious and Taradiddle last season, Hollow Denial this season) and the rest are just filler. I zone in on my favorites, build them, and slowly progress the others at my own pace. Most do wind up in my Vault unused, but the ones that don't are personal favorites.
Same here. Crafted Under Your Skin first last season and used pretty much only that until this season
Same. I only go out of my way to craft guns I know I'm going to like or use a lot. Everything else, I snag a decent roll and toss in my vault.
All I wanted from vog was the void praetorian foil adept. Didn’t even have the gun. All I wanted this season is the void epicurean but it’s now locked behind an impossible rng. What does bungie have against void fusions? That’s all I’ve been wanting for a while. Have about 40 of the first boss clears about 20 of the final boss and only 2 red bars to show for it. Gave up
If anything the red border chase was slightly LESS grindy than I expected crafting would end up being. As Datto said you are making YOUR PERFECT ROLL and with how time investments can be for getting that with a default gun taking many hours or days (or not ever dropping ever) I really think crafting is a pretty easy and forgiving grind. Sure you may go days without a red drop but if you play the content enough you are guaranteed to get the full pattern after a certain amount of resets and there is no rng for that.
"Get red borders as a part of natural play".
100% the truth, I just finished my first red frame of the season this week and it's weird to me seeing everyone so stressed out when we have plenty of time.
You do realize that by the time you get that god roll crafted "naturally", the season would be almost over and the seasonal mods that made the weapon feel great are already leaving. The sooner you achieve something the more time you have in the season to utilize it. That goes for everything in the game, whether weapons or power levels.
Thank you for this video. I’ve long felt the exact same way as you stated in this video about crafting. My only issue is that the dungeon craftable weapons should be tied to triumphs or some type of currency system (I.e., spoils for raid weps) so that it’s not painful repeat farming for pure red border RNG. I like that all other craftable weapons had an, albeit long sometimes, guaranteed end point to get the pattern.
I just wish there was more thought put into enhanced perks. Some are nice, like incandescent, but WAY too many only add +4 to a random stat, or add +1 to reserves, or add literally ONE second to time-based perks (OFA only increases from 11 to 12 seconds). I get that bungie is afraid of power creep, but most of the enhanced perks just aren't worth the time and resource investment.
I feel like i grind out double enhanced perks on my crafted weapons solely to see the yellow border around the gun rather than the added effects, since it wont have it if you craft it with regular perks.
I don’t think enhanced perks are meant to be something you specifically grind for, they’re more of just a minor bonus for the people that do decide to put a lot of time into a weapon. Enhanced perks are supposed to be very minor because otherwise they would render non-craftable weapons completely obsolete and Bungie doesn’t want that.
@@sandwichdude97 And on top of that this season they're very easy to get. Just running containment a handful of times will get you 2 ascendant alloy which use to be the only hard thing to get for enhanced perks. Since enhanced perks are so easy to get from just using the weapon and playing the game it makes sense they're a minor reward with small bonuses.
I enjoy playing crucible so this helps me get deepsight: play a match with your preferred loudout and then before match ends swap weapons. You’d get 40% from match completion.
From the second Bungie revealed crafting and especially once it was actually in the game and we got our hands on it, I immediately put in my mind "this is supposed to be a long-term thing." and I immediately stopped worrying about every aspect of it because I figured it would all sort itself out eventually and when I really needed something, like a Fourth Time/Bait and Switch Cataclysm, then I could turn up the heat a bit to get that weapon.
Just cause you can get something doesn't mean you have to go get it. You're allowed to let things come to you. Bungie very clearly intended this system to work that way, dunno why the community has been so stubborn about it.
Someone who gets it
Exactly what I thought, everyone needs to chill out because it's really something that should go on in the background overtime rather than in 2 weeks
Idk how you play the game, but I tend to do all my pinnacles at the start of the week, the seasonal weekly mission, then what? Short term goals achieved, I persue long-term goals. Getting god-rolls, farming Legend Lost Sectors for well-statted exotics, trying to hit Legend in Comp, etc.
Then Bungie introduces a long term goal that isn't based entirely on RNG - Get Enough Drops And You Can Craft Your Perfect Weapon, God Rolls Guaranteed! Enhanced Perks Included!
Nobody should be surprised that the community at large just grinded the shit out of it.
@@rkay2869totally agree. there are complaints about getting patterns being too grindy and they drop too rarely, but this isn't really a problem because you might be getting the god roll in the pattern grind itself! i would take anything to avoid that 100 Fanatic nightfalls just for a 3/5 mindbenders bro.
If I could just use any Mini-tool to level it up before I crafted, that would fix a lot of issues in my mind. Make it where you could level a weapon before you were able to craft it and then after you craft it, then you would have access to all the base perks, but to get the enhanced perks you would have to use your crafted version. That way people would have to put time into the crafted weapon to get it perfect, but at least would have access to a fun role to use while leveling it.
I don’t mind a bit of a grind to get the craftable weapons I want; however, I only have two issues with it. The number of patterns required and the amount of kills/activities required to get a weapon to level 16 for all enhanced perks. Considering the drop rate of red border weapons, I think 5 deepsight weapons is a bit too much. 3 would be ideal. Also, leveling a weapon to 16 takes about 2300-2500 kills (no activities), and I’d rather see that number halved, or even just 1500 kills with zero activities.
Idk about other weapons but Austringer requires 5 patterns iirc and u can get a guaranteed red border each week by focusing the first umbral engram as an Austringer if u have the Crown power up unlocked
@@ChaiTea17 what you said is true for all weapons this season
@@Subsistence69 5 patterns? ;-;
@@ChaiTea17 unfortunately lol
The idea of weapon crafting is neat, and I'm glad to have it, but it could be better. My thoughts:
What if, instead of getting resources and patterns from randomly dropped red borders, you could deepsight any legendary weapon you wanted, but it would _cost_ resources to activate instead? Then, once you finish deepsighting that gun, if it's craftable you unlock the perks that roll had for crafting, if not you get your resources back with some extra, and maybe some legendary shards or something too. (obviously, you get those resources from somewhere else too. Maybe the funny crafting table could have bounties?)
Change the pattern unlocks to something else entirely (preferably something targetable - get 1000 hand cannon kills in the seasonal area/activity, kill 150 hive knights with charged melee abilities, get 100 sniper headshot kills in 3+ streaks without missing, that sort of thing. Kinda grindy still, but not random.) Maybe change how enhanced perks work, too... spend lots of materials once to permanently enhance that perk on that gun whenever you swap to it. Leave the grind and basic cost, but reduce rng and expensive trial and error.
Bonus: change how deepsight weapon levelling works too - instead of unlocking individual perks (now you get those from deepsighting weapon rolls - so getting good rolls of a craftable gun is still good. Maybe let, like, level 20 or 30 automatically unlock all perks though, to save you from the worst of rng's cruel grip?) levelling a weapon could unlock:
- enhanced intrinsics (masterwork bonuses) and a second selectable perk in column 1 at level 10
- the ability to enhance perks and a second selectable perk in column 2 at level 20
- adept stat boosts (+2 to all masterworkable stats not masterworked) and second third column perk at 30
- the shiny gold border and a second fourth column perk at level 40
- and something fancy at level 50. Adept mods would be neat, but... no. Maybe a weapon ornament, if bungie can spare the time to make one for every craftable weapon? Or just some little cosmetic thingy, on the gun or in the inventory. People love little cosmetic thingies.
- and at level 100... I dunno, I just think it'd be neat if there was something here - it takes a lot to reach, but it's doable if you really like a gun and use it a lot (my beloved is just past level 50! I intend to increase that.) Change the name like an adept? Masterwork, Prized, Honed, something like that?
That way you can use whatever rolls you've unlocked immediately after crafting, and you get an almost complete gun at level 10, with minor boosts and conveniences up through 40 and cosmetic trinkets from 40 to 50 (and 100, maybe?)
I just wish I:
1. didn't have to rely entirely on rng to unlock patterns.
2. could care about getting good rolls on craftable guns.
3. didn't have to completely decide on a roll and never change it if I want to use enhanced perks, and,
4. didn't have to level multiple copies of a weapon if I wanted to use multiple different rolls without going to the enclave to switch every time.
I feel like my main problem is that it’s hard to treat crafting as a backup when crafted weapons are technically just better than regular drops because of enhanced perks and stat buff at lvl 20. If those things didn’t exist and crafting just got you a 5/5 that would still be insentive enough ro craft if you don’t get the roll you want while grinding, but wouldn’t make crafted versions of a weapon just objectively better than non-crafted versions even if only marginally.
exactly my issue. i like going for the best version of the weapon I can get, so if its craftable with the option for enhanced perks all random drops are worthless to me even if they roll perfectly. I think they fix it by letting you enhance the perks on your random roll somehow even if you can't change anything else on it so it can match at least match a crafted version.
“You’re telling me I have to get a gun, use said gun, level it up, and then re-engineer it to be good?! Who wants that?!”
Me *laughing in CoD gunsmith
I think when it was first introduced, it was bad. I think now it’s a great place. Albeit it takes a LITTLE too long to level up. It needs to be based more on kills with said weapon as opposed to completions of playlist activities with said weapon. That said I think it adds a fun way to take control of certain preferred weapon and make it a little more your own. I don’t think it should ever nor will it ever be the main/normal way of getting guns but I think it has very strong potential to make some off-meta weapons capable of keeping up with the big boys! I will say, didn’t give a toot about crafting until I saw the Mini in there with enhanced incandescent! And to me that’s the perfect example of who it will appeal to most: people who really didn’t care until they saw one of their favorite guns could be made better! One thing I think could make the crafting system dramatically more appealing is crafting exclusive weapons! Maybe you get a random bounty from Banshee that grants “mysterious pattern data” and on turning it (of a handful) of it into the relic you get a brand-new-never-before-seen gun and it’s got unique traits or modable stats or alt-fire mods. The possibilities are really endless!
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
I like Datto because he is forward and grounded and has interesting/brutally honest takes. He says what other YTrs are scared to.
I mean you already know what he’s gonna say pretty much every time. Agree with bungie
I agree with you .I have been just playing the game enjoying it and my patterns were in the background and 4 weeks later i was done with them.only complaint is i have to use the copy of the weapon i crafted to level it up lets say i have a really good non crafted mida but i also wanna level up my crafter one using the non crafted one should carry over to the crafted one.
IMO you’re on point. I personally prefer my grind being towards a weapon pattern over a random god roll. In my mind there is a finish visible finish line where as that never clicked for me with random rolls so I was never particularly motivated to grind for those. I feel like with a healthy number of patterns released each season and a reasonable amount of rng the grind could easily replace the old random roll grind. This season the rng feels a bit bad vs last season to me.
This is so accurate man. Contrary to what many people say, I have found that the extreme rarity of red borders for the two dungeon weapons is rekindling an excitement for drops. That dopamine kick when you finally get one has definitely gone away for everything else as I’ve collected most things in the game.
I’ve got about 20 final boss clears and about 40 of the first boss. I have 2 red bar fusions. My buddy has about 3 total clears and a couple of fusions and 4 red bar of the fixed odds. I gave up. Not worth the squeeze
My only hit back with the grind being long is that it's hard to go after seasonal patterns once past a season - people aren't likely to be in those playlists/playspaces so if it's a group activity, it makes it a lot harder. E.g. containment/Wellspring/battlegrounds
I totally agree Datto! I've just been playing my normal amount and eventually got all the season of the risen craftables, and the same is happening with the haunted ones now as well. The war table red border perk really helps with this.
I feel the only grind I was sort of EXPECTED to do was the throne world weapons, since some of them drop from content that wasn't necessarily just everyday content, if that makes sense.
Agreed; I usually pick a single weapon to chase the craftable frame on, and pick up the rest along the way through natural play.
This is how i felt last season. But since this season is super thin, im crafting a little bit more.
I still don't care about any weapon crafting in this game and I don't feel like I missed anything or didn't complete any content. All crafting is still bad and will never reach the status the community wants, simply because it's Bungie.
I could not agree more. Especially the ability to acquire one guaranteed red border each week in the raid and through umbral focusing makes collecting patterns a pleasant experience for me, even though I do aim to collect and perfect them all over time. I do worry how this will work when the yearly rotation comes around though, haven't thought about that until this video so thank you for the warning.
I like grinding out guns, it gives you an appreciation for said gun. It brings back D1 vibes where you literally HAD TO level up every piece of equipment (armor perks and exotics included!). The problem is, the fact that primary ammo weapons take WAY too long to level up and unlock perks for, Whereas, heavy and special ammo weapons do not take as long to level.
snipers take way way longer to upgrade, its grueling
I don't care if they make you re-purchase the perks every time. I just want to be able to craft 3 perks per column, so I don't have multiple weapons in my vault and I only have to rank up 1 damn weapon. It's so annoying to have different weapons for PVP, PVE, and a specific build role. It's just lazy how Bungie has implemented weapon crafting. But I am glad it's here.
Agree 100%. People need to stop expecting to have absolutely everything in 3 days. This is meant to be a long-term investment that is essentially bad luck protection, not an instant gateway to a perfect arsenal.
I swear the community is their own worst enemy at times.
My biggest issue with weapon crafting is the extreme time investment required, especially with how many weapons are available for crafting.
First, you need to have good enough RNG to even get the 3-5 patterns of a specific weapon, then you have to use them quite a bit to obtain the deepsight resonance from each one. By the time you've unlocked the pattern, you may have 300+ kills and played through 10+ playlist activities and zero of that progress gets applied to the base version of the weapon.
Then you have to use the weapon for a long time to finally get it leveled up. Getting 20% per activity completion and x0.5 - 1x per kill feels like a slog to get the gun to where it has usable perks, and especially get it to where its high enough to select whatever perks you want. As a frame of reference, my Mini-Tool is currently at 1200 kills and I've been diligent about keeping it equipped at the end of an activity. It's at level 12 1/4. \
At first glance that might not seem terrible, but keep something in mind: Even if I'm being completely efficient and keeping 3 crafted weapons on at one time, only one weapon will be getting the majority of the kills. The other weapon(s) are basically there to get the activity completion bonus, which could take up to 80 if they don't get a single kill. But wait, you also have to keep up with your red border weapons otherwise you don't have the materials to upgrade when its complete or high enough for good perks. Perhaps you don't want to even use the gun you're leveling up right now- you better quickly switch to crafted weapons at the end of an activity to gain the progress, otherwise its wasted XP.
It just feels a little too much, even for gaining god rolls. I play more than the average D2 player (level 400+ last season and 170ish this season) and I've been incredibly diligent about efficiency. I always have a crafted weapon equipped or in my inventory for swapping at the end and I still feel like it's a never ending battle. I have 13 weapons that I still don't have a pattern for, and 8 weapons I haven't even started leveling up yet. I realize the system isn't meant for someone to gain every single weapon, but it feels so far out of reach that it makes most of the weapons useless. You really can't even play around with a gun to see how it feels once fully leveled up because it takes too much time away from crafting the super viable weapons.
If I'm struggling to keep up, how in the hell are people with less time feeling? It somewhat pigeon holes them in to only caring about the best of the best for that season, or being like me and sacrificing using whatever you want for max efficiency. They either need to increase the XP gains significantly, reduce the amount of craftable weapons they release each season, or reduce amount of red borders needed to craft a weapon. As it stands, 95% of my clan stopped playing this season because it felt like they had to micromanage their entire time on D2 now, mostly due to crafting and the investment required.
A little update. I just finished running all 6 weekly bounties on all 3 characters (very early bounty prep) and exclusively used the Mini-Tool while working on them. I got to 1500 kills (plus activities) to finally reach 16. At that point, I switched to Beloved and Empirical Evidence to finished off the rest of the bounties. I'm at over 700 kills with EE and level 7, while Beloved is still at level 2 with 102 kills. That was 6+ hours of grinding while focusing on weapon XP and doing bounties. I gained a total of 12 levels between the 3 guns I was using, and this includes a heavy amount of kills coming from the Altars of Sorrow activity.
I didn't use a single other gun unless it was for a few Gunsmith bounties, and I basically crammed a long session to get there. If we assume it takes 8-10 hours of hard usage on a weapon to get max rank, then the other 20 guns I have left will take 160-200 hours to complete- not including the need for red borders, other materials and the RNG needed before I can even start the XP grind. This also doesn't take in to account that GM season starts next week, and a lot of the weapons I have left wont be viable for GM's unless I want to seriously handicap my team.
Basically, I won't be getting any weapon XP next week unless I use these weapons during the seasonal quests, or just decide to play in the core activity playlists.
Honestly, my biggest gripe with crafting is the amount of kills it takes to level up the gun. Why make us fight through getting 5 red borders, which may take months for a certain weapon, only to make us slog away at thousands of kills to get the enhanced perks you want? This just forces people to get a shuro chi checkpoint if they want their god roll sooner rather than later.
You pretty much nailed it on this topic. I only have a few crafted weapons above LVL 16, and hate how tedious it is to upgrade them. I really don't like having to take up vault space with red-bar weapons to save up neutral elements either. To me, weapon crafting is in its early stage... I would love to be able to change scopes, elements, and multiple enhanced perks per weapon.
Personally, I think the grind™ this season is fine, really. I play at most an hour or two a day, and I already have a fully crafted beloved and mini tool. I do think leveling up the weapons is really annoying, but I wouldn't mind it if it permanently unlocked the perks for future crafts. The voices that are the loudest seem to be the people who spend the most time grinding and then complaining about not having enough to do at the end of the season.
Personally i feel the grind is entirely too long. When i get on to play a game for a few hours after work, I dont want to spend it doing some garbage public event and running around with a chest tracker on. Destiny 1 material farm was about as fun as this is
I completely agree with you Datto; we are on the same page with regard to crafted weapons.
I just play the game and unlocking patterns when they unlock, then I level guns as time permits; usually doing weaponsmith bounties I will break out my crafted weapons to level them a bit and get those bounties done; or I'll slap on a crafted heavy when I jump into crucible because just having it equipped levels it up.
Up until quite recently, I was dismantling red box weapons because I had no space in my vault to hold them and I was capped in crafting materials.
Me sitting here with a mini tool, drang, and beloved that I crafted within the first week of the season and had them all up to level 16 a few days later after spending 6 hours at Shuro Chi. That being said, I haven't complained about crafting this season at all. I did this to myself and I don't regret it. And yes, let's just get this out of the way. I have no life, I accept it, I'm 100% a pathetic waste of genetic material. Have a nice day.
All I know is that leveling the crafted beloved is like smashing your head into a wall
PVE streamers/TH-camrs often make a similar claim about the grind being the core element/source of fun for the game and I DEEPLY disagree. The fun comes from USING cool new items and abilities that are unique and powerful. Guns aren't better because it took you a long time to get it. The focus should be on EXPERIENCING your ideal item, not the drawn-out pursuit of it.
I feel like this is coming from someone who like 80-20 plays Crucible... If you want all the guns unlocked in a multiplayer game right away then this might not be the right one?
@@noahhattrup8360 Did I say I want all the guns unlocked automatically? Nope. I didn't even say eliminate all grind, all I said was where the true fun of the game comes from. But yes, I am mainly a Crucible player but I still enjoy Pve lmao
During witch queen, I crafted 3 weapons (enigma, osteo striga, some rando fuzor that I was just doing for a quest before I decided I wasn't too fussed about that quest right now).
I only intend to craft 1 this season (a mini-tool, because I enjoy incandescent).
I don't feel like I'm missing out for not using the crafting system.
I think the grind is fine, other than being tied to the seasonal activity which gets quite boring to run time and time again. Much like Wellspring. Wonder if they'll ever increase the drop rate for those patterns, finally had one drop at 78 runs..... I'd rather not run another 78 for the other one
I’m 100% agreeing with you. I have each damage type and type of gun covered and then my go to weapons for end game. Upgrade as I go if one ends up better than the other. Yet to craft a weapon I even care to use and casually will craft ones I actually want.
Wholeheartedly agree! The desire to burn through any and all content, forever and ever, until the end of time, no matter how monotonous, is at the root of many people's dissatisfaction with this game. Thanks for putting this out there. Much love!
To date, I've crafted 5 weapons. Osteo Striga and Enigma because I had to for a quest, Syncopation, Likely Suspect and Sweet Sorrow. I discovered that last season I spent too much time focusing on grinding the red borders and not doing the things I wanted to, so this season I haven't done a single one. I do plan on crafting a Beloved as it was my favorite sniper before but I'm not actively trying to find the red border weapons. In fact, I delete most of them.
I feel similar to Datto about the crafted weapons but as someone who only started up playing in season 15, I do rush for patterns where I don’t have a good weapon to fill the niche, like rushing for thoughtless last season because my kinetic sniper options were pretty poor. It’s more than bad luck protection it’s also a nice way for newer players to catch up in terms of getting well rolled weapons.
As someone who was first to the beloved crafted in my clan, i lost my mind more than once trying to get to it, then spent the miserable 1k plus kills to level 16, and proceeded to immediately notice that enhanced snapshot was slower than the last time i used a plain snapshot sniper in pvp before the changes. I haven't logged on to D2 for 8 or 9 days...with no plans to play
To the issue at 8:11 My solution would be a way to infuse a randomly rolled version of for example, Calus Mini Tool into your level 1 crafted version and your crafted version gets the perks from your randomly rolled version. This wouldn't fast track you if say the gun had Incandescent on it, like it wouldn't suddenly become level 8 or whatever, but you would have the fun perk you already got randomly rolled and can continue to have fun with it, while using it to level it up to get the enhanced version.
I’ve gotten 2 red bar fusions from the dungeon and 0 of the fixed odds after having about 20 clears and 40 of the first boss. My issue with crafting isn’t getting red bars, it’s the fact that these two guns that no-one will try to chase but me because of their archetype are going to be impossible to get. Why put these in the dungeon? After 6months I’m still not going to have ether and at this rate this dungeon will be in the dcv before I get all the red bars. People won’t even be playing by the time I might get them. I gave up and would just assume not play then chase other things that I would have.
THANK YOU! You basically echo my exact thoughts on this subject and it’s so nice to hear someone with a big voice saying everything I’ve been saying all along. I’m so tired of the copious amounts of Reddit posts crying about it being too hard to get crafted weapons or that deep sight weapons drop too infrequently. You’re not supposed to craft everything, and if you were for like a seasonal title then sure I understand being mad about it, but the only title with such a requirement is the throne world one which gives you plenty of time to complete. These are the absolute pinnacles of god rolls we’re talking about, they shouldn’t be handed out like r/dtg wants lol
What I personally would like to see is an overhaul something like this:
-Future seasons will not allow crafting of all seasonal weapons. Instead you'll have 1-3 weapons per season that are *only* available through crafting (i.e. Season ## only has a Bow, MG, Auto Rifle, and Shotgun as drops but has a Fusion Rifle and Scout Rifle craftable), you get the patterns through seasonal challenges.
-A "generic" craftable weapon for each type can be unlocked at the gunsmith (long term grind, more added over time but to start 1 of each type but not 1 of each archetype) and upgraded by completing deepsight weapons of that type, eventually allowing you to unlock ornaments for it to make it look like the other weapons of it's archetype. So a Deepsight precision frame auto will give progress for new perks on your crafted precision frame auto and completing 5 deepsight verisons of the same auto gives you the ornament of it. Special quests will unlock, for example, SUROS or Omolon craftable weapons that count as the "generic" weapons.
-Completing 5 (or more depending) deepsight weapons of a *slot* (primary, energy, or heavy) from the same *source* (season, vanguard, crucible, raid, etc) will unlock the intrinsic perk for the generic craftable weapons in that slot
-Each weapon's perk pool has at least 1 or 2 perks that cannot be put on the generic craftable weapons
That way:
-All deepsight drops progress crafting unlocks to an extent instead of just a select few specific weapons
-the Gunsmith and Weapon Foundries have a bigger role
-you can keep older weapon appearances while still having access to newer perks as the "generic" weapons get updated bit by bit (likely a season or two behind new perks being added to random drops)
-Seasonal activities have random roll grinding *and* deepsight weapons to earn without the two conflicting.
-The generic weapons provide a long-term investment in weapons over multiple seasons without completely invalidating the weapon roll grind since they can't have access to every perk
I think despite the added complexity this could still be conveyed in a way that's not too confusing if done carefully.
Loot needs at least 1 of 3 of the following things for me to even care about it, in any game:
1. Guaranteed it drops with random features (perks) at end of hard activity.
2. Bad luck protection.
3. Fast activity.
Opulent keys are a good example of something just outside of what I want.
1. They aren't guaranteed, even from a full, 3 round Containment.
2. The can drop deepsights that you already have.
3. It takes a long time.
I honestly feel the same way. I barely use crafted weapons. I have a bunch in my vault that I stopped caring about. I’m taking my absolute time getting red border weapons this season. Just letting it ride, having fun with the grind, instead of feeling obligated. It’s a bit more liberating.
I do think people overreact to The Grind TM because I think there is a bit of fomo and just wanting to grind with a new weapon, not grind to get it. I totally see your point and get it, as I only just crafted my first opulent weapon like two days ago, not running the public event for eleven hour on the first day of the season.
Good stuff. I cared a bunch at the beginning but soon realized that a god roll craft-able would still not be as preferable as most of my dropped god rolls. I also hate getting a bunch of kills on a shaped weapon when it sucks. The Enigma and Osteo where the only ones that got the kills during normal play.
I have almost every single weapon from both seasons crafted except for two - Epicurean and the Titan Glaive. Some of them, due to needing a neutral element sink or simply an alternate roll that wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg, have been crafted multiple times.
What I like:
- Once I have a pattern done, I am done with that gun forever. I'll bring it out for certain content, or it sits in my vault ready to go. Not having to worry about needing a specific kinetic pulse or void bow is a good feeling.
- Once a specific checklist of activities is complete for those guns (Since I am done with Psyops weapons, I don't need to do psyops anymore. Since I am done with the nightmare weapons on the leviathan, I don't need to do containment anymore) I can decide to do other activities. It focuses my playtime and allows me to branch out and do other things.
- The red border system forces me to try rolls I wouldn't normally try, which I might fall in love with. I found a Riptide with feeding frenzy/successful warmup with a charge time masterwork that went from what would've been shard fodder to a really fun add clear fusion.
- Ditto for leveling up weapons. I ended up with over 40 levels on Lubrae's Ruin from Duality alone this season, and 40-ish levels on Tarnation from patrol zones and just random activities. They're not meta options by any stretch, but they just sorta ended up in my inventory and I ended up using them. Once you're done leveling, passively using these weapons still rewards neutral element and progression, and that feels nice.
What I don't like:
- I feel like the leveling for the weapons themselves could be adjusted to gain levels faster earlier on, but slower later on, like a gradual, perhaps capped, exponential curve or logistical curve. To reach the right level to pick and choose any perk, it's about 2,300 kinetic/special kills and about 1,400 heavy kills for level 17. Some archetypes (looking at you Father's Sins and Ragnhild-D) can be an outright slog to get this done. As you're leveling these weapons you're forced to use some truly awful rolls in the interim. It burns you out on the weapon, and the need to get the other rolls finished benches these weapons when you're done crafting them unless they fit into the builds you're using.
- Locking unlockable weapons for this season behind Duality was a dick move. I got lucky with Fixed Odds, but I'd need to run Gahlran an absurd amount of times for Epicureans (sitting at 2/5). Same thing with a random drop for the pattern off of Wellspring, I feel like an insurmountable amount of wellspring needs to be done to net the patterns for the exotic glaives.
I think its great, its giving me a reason to keep playing the game, i slowly work on collecting red border guns to craft while doing weekly missions and other quests. I do want every good roll weapon for myself, but rushing to get them now would be boring in the long run.
There are only a handful of reasons I genuinely seek weapon crafting: Triumphs and Titles/Seals when needed (Gumshoe for example), something to slap my momentos on, and weapons I have heard/been told that were good for the activities I seek on doing (Calus mini tool with enhanced surrounded for a solo dungeon run for example). Outside of any of those reasons I have a handful of guns is keep close to my heart and use for every activity
I've never really been crazy about the crafting that was introduced in WQ. I like the *idea* that there's a route to obtain weapons with the rolls I want, but I think I'll always enjoy seasonal focusing into items with more perk combinations per drop. I think it lets me appreciate the individuality of the guns that Destiny offers, it's one of the key things that's kept me playing the game regularly since they introduced random rolls. Boiling down the weapons to the guaranteed rolls, best barrel, best mag, MW, etc....it just feels so emotionless. I have so many older guns that are 3/5 and 4/5 rolls, they're "imperfect" but I love them to absolute death. I can't really say I feel that way about my crafted Beloved, it only makes me think about my random rolled one I grinded for years ago that was sunset (that I still have, and use for everything PVP that isn't trials).
One additional factor of crafting weapons is future-proofing; if some perk changes in future, either a bad one becoming good or a good one getting nerfed into the ground, you can change the perk on a crafted weapon. It prevents needing to either fill your vault with currently-mediocre rolls or a future grind. Even if I get my perfect roll for a craftable weapon, I will (over time) craft one anyway because of this. I'm also not rushing out red-borders, for the same burn-out related reasons as I rarely grind for rolls.
Also, what an individual gets from receiving the roll they want is HIGHLY subjective; personally it's disappointment with the occasional not-disappointment when I get what I was actually after. I actually get more excited when I get a red-border that I need to unlock a pattern than when I get an above-mediocre roll, because that red-border is PROGRESS towards my perfect roll instead of just being Legendary Shards and Glimmer dressed up as a gun. I actively dislike grinding for random drops, especially if they're limited to a mode I despise; looking at you Reed's Regret that I had to grind 20 Trials ranks for (in pre-Cataclysmic times, using focusing) that is now pretty worthless because Vorpal got nerfed and it doesn't have the manufacturor perk. I would rather grind for currency; at least that's measurable progress. D2 sits at my absolute limit for RNG tolerance, and anything that shifts it away from that is good IMO; I want to play for the story, the combat, the space magic and the guns, not ram my head against RNG doing the same activity long after I'm sick of it. I will not be replacing my Reed's, I will not be going after a better Eyasluna roll, and I'm even vaguely indifferent about Stormchaser, because after that one experience getting my initial 'god-roll' Reed's I will NEVER be doing it again. But I still go into Vow for red-borders even though I've got half the patterns done and crafted and got my Collective Obligation, because no matter what I'm guaranteed progress, no meatter if it's only one more weapon towards a locked pattern.
I noticed the other day that I was way more excited about getting a ok roll (not even a 4/5) on a uncraftable world drop than I was about finally finishing a 5/5 crafted weapon. I'll use both probably an equal amount but one required hours after commitment and the other was unexpected and random. Destiny has trained us to think the latter is more exciting. And tbh...it was.
Because it is. It interacts with your brain differently. Which is why Bungie doesn’t want to undermine that reward loop, by letting people quickly craft everything in the game.
I agree! And for those of us who love the game and have played for years, but only have 1 day to play every week because of work makes it hard for grinding for red borders. Have to squeeze every minute into pinnacles and getting the weekly season quests done.
In regards to 8:25 I feel as though for the grind aspect bungie would change the way we earn advanced perks by changing it from being available through leveling/usage to having them only be unlocked through certain challenges. Slide kills, headshots, multi kills, one shots, kills while at critical health, and longshots ( I realize now that this is exactly like the camo grind for CoD) would be possible challenges.
I got MY perfect Mini-Tool roll fairly early in the season. Masterworked it immediately, and it even got me through my recent flawless dungeon runs. My brother asked me if I'd even still use it after getting the pattern for it and crafting one. Honestly? I'd be more than happy just keeping mine and not crafting one, and I think that speaks volumes. Maybe it's just the simplicity of getting a roll that the majority of people wouldn't be as excited for. Either way it's still nice to have the options available for different builds and such.
Your take about people rushing to get everything is spot on. I've seen a lot of players dumping opulent energy for Austringers and whatnot only to rage at the fact that no red border dropped. But I understand the frustration.
However...you made a point about natural play. This is where Bungo failed with weapon crafting...it's unnatural...it detracts from you playing normally. It's not integrated enough. Without much detail, as I feel I've rambled this on several comments and videos already. What we need is:
-Collection tracked level (ALL copies of a weapon sharing the level)
-Perk modification(Allow players to modify a 3/5 4/5 weapon upon reaching a certain level with the gun)
-More level relevance past 30...something like adding extra stuff like:2 row perks in crafting or adept MW bonuses.
Weapon crafting SHOULD BE the ENDGAME of weapon chasing. But everything you encounter during your chase should count .Right now, the most stupid feeling is getting an almost God Roll, but when you craft the weapon you start off with WORSE perks than you had.
This is why I am asking for an collection tied level system. I would like to use my God Roll to "atune" to said weapon and level it up...before crafting my perfect copy.
I'll repeat this every time I see a vid talking about crafting. It should not have been a way to make a weapon from scratch, it should have been a way to tailor a random dropped weapon to your liking. Forget the red borders, leveling, enhanced perks. It should have been nothing more than taking a perk from one random roll and putting it on another of the same weapon, and should extend to every gun in the game. So you can take a 4/5, combine it with a 1/5 and a bunch of currency, and make a 5/5 or if your rng is really bad, you can take 5 1/5s and make a 5/5 that way. Basically limiting the grind without removing it. I find this would be much better since the excitement of getting a drop would still be there, the task of getting a god roll would be less boring than crafting, and there would be no statistical powercreep that enhanced perks bring.
I agree. I'm a newer player and a pretty casual one at that and I've only crafter I think the glaive and the exotic and that's it. I only did those for quests. I just have all my red borders in my vault and if banshee has bounties for a red border I have ill use that for the play session
I've only crafted Calus Mini-Tool this season and didn't even bothered using the Shuro Chi checkpoint or Grasp of Avarice entrance level farming since they buffed the amount of Exp get from core activities and already have it enhance and can say people are most likely making a fuss out of nothing.
Kinda repeating what some already mentioned here... once a pattern is completed that gun should get a static level universally applied to all versions of that gun. After reaching a certain level you should then be able to craft it with all perks available to you, so you can turn the 3/5 into a 5/5 for example. Enhanced Traits should only be unlockable though by using that crafted weapon further.
This was refreshing to hear, as it wasn't something I had thought of. Craft what you like, and the rest will come as it comes.
This is literally my approach to the game in general and it's much more fun playing just to, you know, play. Best part about it is that I don't get burnt out and always have something to look forward to.
Once again, your insight into situations in the game is pretty spot on.
Very coherent explanation and an important message. I got caught up in the buzz of grinding for red borders this season. Fortunately the activity is pretty fun, and the weapons are great, so I don't regret it. I think the main problem is the design of the activity. Vestige of Dread should be most efficiently gathered from playlist activities to encourage playing the rest of the game. If they did that, the activity could also be more generous because you've spent time elsewhere.
Well I got the patterns of all the craftable
Weapons this season besides the 2 dungeon ones. I love the scout rifle enhanced motion and explosives rounds. I like to rush things when a season launches to not worry anymore through out the season
I definitely should've taken it easy this season. As soon as I heard that Beloved was craftable, I blew something like four straight weeks of nonstop grinding in the Leviathan to get a crafted Beloved, and I still haven't levelled it up enough to get Snapshot sights on it. I burned out too hard at the start of the season trying to craft things, so I would definitely agree with the notion that you should not rush crafting.
For me, I wanted an s class handcannon and sniper for pvp. So I ground for austringer and beloved rolls and ended up unlocking Calus mini tool and austringer. While I was doing the grind I got a weird rolled beloved (surplus QuickDraw with great handling) tried it, and adored it. The only reason I go to the leviathan is because I want a good rolled drang. The main reason I even like the crafting system is because it allows me to experiment with rolls on weapons I think might be fun without having to hope for the roll to drop thereafter. I initially crafted my Calus mini tool with feeding frenzy and threat detector for pvp but realized I had more fun with it in pve so I recrafted the gun about 7 or 8 times until I settled on a weapon that fits my play style perfectly. I only try to craft weapons I love, and I only put enhanced perks on guns that I love after crafting (like empirical evidence) because once I put on that enhanced perk, it’s not coming off until bungie makes enhanced perks permanent unlocks. But the crafting grind is only going to get worse from here, because as soon as bungie drops a craftable high impact or lightweight pulse into the sandbox with one crazy good roll (like encore adagio on empirical evidence, which makes what’s an a or b tier sidearm s tier in that one roll) everyone is going to sink countless hours to unlock it.
My main issue with weapon crafting is most of the time the weapons that are in the pool of craftable weapons are anything that I want. This season the only weapons I've crafted out of the list of added patterns/weapons are Beloved, Austringer and Calus Mini-tool, and only use one of the three which is Austringer cause I'm too busy vibing with a nice Staccato will Triple Tap/Focused Fury. So I've lost all focus on gathering the patterns unless it's something required of me for one reason or another.
I think you hit the nail on the head about crafting being the endgame/bad luck protection part of the grind. I do think that Bungie should have done better at communicating this as I too thought that crafting was going to become the main way we got our new guns when it was first announced. If I had to offer a suggestion, I'd suggest making it easier to get the crafted weapons in our hands, and then offering more ways for us to fully invest in a weapon we really like. For example, I've seen a lot of people want to be able to add a second row of perks, this could be something that would be unlocked once your weapon level is high enough. They could also make it cost less to swap perks the higher level the weapon is with it eventually becoming free, even for enhanced perks. This would let your casual players feel like their time is rewarded, and that they don't have to no life the game to get the roll that they want, while still rewarding those that have the time/inclination/dedication to really invest in a weapon.